Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / HEALTHCARE ASSASSIN LUIGI MANTIONE CELEBRATES BIRTHDAY BEHIND BARS WITH $1.5 MILLION

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HEALTHCARE ASSASSIN LUIGI MANTIONE CELEBRATES BIRTHDAY BEHIND BARS WITH $1.5 MILLION · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The spoiled brat millionaire, the
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  Speaker 1: so called health care assassin Luigimnngioni is celebrating his twenty
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  Speaker 1: eighth birthday right now behind bars with one point five
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  Speaker 1: million dollars in donation. Wow, that's some birthday. I'm Nancy Grace,
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  Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
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  Speaker 1: being with us. The so called healthcare assassin who gunned
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  Speaker 1: down United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, a husband, a father,
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  Speaker 1: and broad daylight on the sidewalk in Manhattan, received a
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  Speaker 1: twenty eight thousand, thirty eight dollars donation just a few
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  Speaker 1: days ago from a guy named Carl, putting Luigi's jailhouse
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  Speaker 1: winnings at a whopping one point five million dollars. Well,
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  Speaker 1: that's certainly something to sell, isn't it As he celebrates
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  Speaker 1: his twenty eighth birthday behind bars. I wonder what Brian
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  Speaker 1: Thompson's boys will be doing when they turn twenty eight,
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  Speaker 1: maybe reading the internet about how their father was gunned
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  Speaker 1: down in cold blood. That said, what's happening with the trial?
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  Speaker 2: In an effort to prevent a jury from seeing a
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  Speaker 2: three D printed gun allegedly used to murder United Healthcare
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  Speaker 2: CEO Brian Thompson. Luigi Mangoni's legal team argues that local
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  Speaker 2: police in Pennsylvania illegally searched their clients backpack when he
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  Speaker 2: was arrested in Altoona McDonald's. Manjoni also wants to exclude
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  Speaker 2: the red notebook with handwritten notes and anything else found
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  Speaker 2: in the backpack in his possession at the time of
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  Speaker 2: his arrest. Manjoni claims officer searched his backpack at the
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  Speaker 2: McDonald's and continued searching the bag once he was transported
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  Speaker 2: to the Altuna police station, all before seeking a search warrant.
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  Speaker 2: Later in the day, Manjoni's defense attorneys pushed for all
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  Speaker 2: of the backpack's contents to be barred from the state's
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  Speaker 2: case because they alleged it was searched illegally without a warrant.
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  Speaker 2: Prosecutors denied the defense claims and assisted the searches were
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  Speaker 2: legal and proper. Judge Gregory Carrow, the judge overseeing the
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  Speaker 2: New York state case against Luigi Mangoni, issuing a ruling
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  Speaker 2: months after having gone through a nine day suppression hearing
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  Speaker 2: that included hours of footage from police body worn cameras
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  Speaker 2: showing how the arrest unfolded in testimony from multiple law
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  Speaker 2: enforcement officers about the searches, Judge Carrow ruled that part
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  Speaker 2: of the initial backpack search of the McDonald's where Majoni
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  Speaker 2: was arrested was unconstitutional under New York law, and because
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  Speaker 2: of this. Items suppressed include a loaded magazine, cell phone, passport, wallet,
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  Speaker 2: computer chip, microchip, as well as some statements Mangoni made
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  Speaker 2: before miranda protection is attached. The judge is allowing prosecutors
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  Speaker 2: to use several pieces of evidence, including a three D
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  Speaker 2: printed handgun described as the murder weapon, a silencer, and
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  Speaker 2: a notebook journal allegedly containing writings about the attack that
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  Speaker 2: has been called a manifesto. In the ruling, Judge Caro
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  Speaker 2: says the backpack was not within man Joni's immediate graveable
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  Speaker 2: area when officers searched it, making the warrantless search improper,
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  Speaker 2: but the judge found that a later search at the
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  Speaker 2: station house was lawful, which is why the gun in
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  Speaker 2: the notebook remained admissible. In a brief statement after the ruling,
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  Speaker 2: the DA's office says we looked forward to resenting our
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  Speaker 2: case at trial on September eighth and.
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  Speaker 1: What are the facts surrounding the case?
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  Speaker 3: Masked gunman shoots dead the United Healthcare CEO in Midtown Manhattan.
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  Speaker 3: An urgent search ensues for the suspect. Last scene entering Central.
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  Speaker 1: Park, marriage secrets being revealed as this health boss worth
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  Speaker 1: millions of dollars is gunned down and open around the public.
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  Speaker 1: What do we make of clues left behind? Cryptic and
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  Speaker 1: odd clues? For instance, bullets found actually have been inscribed
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  Speaker 1: with letters on them.
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  Speaker 4: A cell phone.
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  Speaker 1: Had been left behind.
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  Speaker 4: Is there DNA on a water bottle? Was this a pro?
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  Speaker 4: A silencer was used?
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  Speaker 1: And in the middle of the assassination, the gun jams
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  Speaker 1: and seemingly the pro shooter simply adjusted and continued firing. Everyone,
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  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. If this can happen
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  Speaker 1: in public.
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  Speaker 4: What are we to think of it? Well, take a listen.
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  Speaker 1: To what the chief of detectives has to say.
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  Speaker 5: This morning, at six forty six am, patrol offices from
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  Speaker 5: Midtown North Preestinct responded to a nine to one one
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  Speaker 5: call of a person shot in front of the Hilton
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  Speaker 5: Hotel located at thirteen thirty five Avenue of the Americas.
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  Speaker 5: This is between West fifty third Street and West fifty
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  Speaker 5: fourth Street at six forty eight am. Officers arrive and
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  Speaker 5: find the victim, Brian R. Thompson, a fifty year old male,
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  Speaker 5: on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton with gunshot
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  Speaker 5: wounds to his back and leg.
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  Speaker 1: You know, the way the sheeter handled the weapon, the
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  Speaker 1: use of a silencer, the mask, the lying in wait
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  Speaker 1: all indicates a professional hit. But a pro wouldn't want
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  Speaker 1: to be caught. A pro would do everything not to
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  Speaker 1: get caught. So then why we're there, especially engraved bullets
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  Speaker 1: with cryptic messages on them.
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  Speaker 6: M m.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like a fifth grade girl riding a crime thriller.
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  Speaker 1: Something's way off with this joining me and all Star
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  Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we know right now,
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  Speaker 1: but for a straight out to investigative reporter Lauren Conin
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  Speaker 1: joining us co host Primetime Crime on YouTube and you
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  Speaker 1: can find her at Popcrime dot tv, who has gone
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  Speaker 1: to the scene and investigated. Lauren, what can you tell us?
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  Speaker 4: Yes, Nancy?
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  Speaker 1: On the street.
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  Speaker 6: The entire street of West fifty third Street was blocked off.
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  Speaker 6: There was a plane, clothes detectives as well as uniformed
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  Speaker 6: officers basically not saying anything. I asked questions. I asked
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  Speaker 6: witnesses if they heard anything, and the parking lot attendants
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  Speaker 6: were actually there earlier that morning, but they said, you know,
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  Speaker 6: due to the silencer, they didn't hear anything.
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  Speaker 1: Tell me your understanding, what you learned of what happened,
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  Speaker 1: Starting at the beginning.
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  Speaker 6: Starting at the beginning, I learned that Brian Thompson arrived
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  Speaker 6: in New York Monday. Now he was not staying at
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  Speaker 6: the Hilton. He was staying at a hotel across the street.
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  Speaker 6: He was set to speak at eight am at their
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  Speaker 6: annual investors conference, and he was arriving early at six
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  Speaker 6: forty five. So as he walked into the entrance of
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  Speaker 6: the Hilton, it was revealed by NYPD that this gunman
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  Speaker 6: was allegedly lying in wait before he shot him.
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  Speaker 1: Take a listen to Chief Detective Joe Kenny.
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  Speaker 5: Mister Thompson was removed by ems or Roosevelt Hospital, where
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  Speaker 5: he was pronounced dead at seven twelve am. Thompson is
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  Speaker 5: the CEO of United Healthcare and resides in Minnesota. Detectives
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  Speaker 5: from Night Watch, Midtown North Detective Squad, and Manhattan South
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  Speaker 5: Homicard responded to the scene and began their investigation.
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  Speaker 4: We're learning a lot.
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  Speaker 1: I want to go straight out to Bill Daily joining
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  Speaker 1: us from New York, former FBI investigator Forendsic photography international
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  Speaker 1: security expert. Bill, thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 4: You see the video steals we're showing.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that a pro would have done this
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  Speaker 1: right in front of a surveillance video.
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  Speaker 7: Well, exactly right, Nancy.
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  Speaker 8: Is that you know people through on this thing about
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  Speaker 8: you know professional hitmn I mean those are those are
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  Speaker 8: out of the movies. I mean this could be somebody
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  Speaker 8: who trained who thought it out. Well, obviously he's done
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  Speaker 8: a lot of reconnaissance and research, but we're talking about
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  Speaker 8: the professional hit people. That's something made in the movies.
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  Speaker 8: I would say, Nancy, a couple of things. I'm quite
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  Speaker 8: familiar with this area, being a New Yorker and having
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  Speaker 8: worked on the streets of New York for weite a
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  Speaker 8: number of years. Is that this is actually the side
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  Speaker 8: entrance the mister Thompson was apparently standing around the corner.
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  Speaker 8: We believe that they'd Marriott Hotel, which actually gave him
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  Speaker 8: a couple of avenues of approach to the hotel. This
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  Speaker 8: is the side Jess the maniagers on sixth Avenue. So
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  Speaker 8: for this gunman to know that he was going to
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  Speaker 8: be coming down the side street at this time suggested
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  Speaker 8: to me there was some other reconnaissance inside information that.
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  Speaker 7: He knew that he was at another hotel.
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  Speaker 8: He wasn't saying at the Hilton that he could be
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  Speaker 8: coming down this street. Tom say, could have easy walked
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  Speaker 8: around seventh Avenue, come down fifty fifth Street or another
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  Speaker 8: street to grab a cup of coffee.
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  Speaker 7: But he didn't. And so there are a couple of things.
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  Speaker 8: Out here that kind of jump out to me that
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  Speaker 8: are really concerning with your gud to how much information
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  Speaker 8: was known about the specific movements of mister Thompson that morning.
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  Speaker 1: Bill Daly, I know exactly what you mean about that location.
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  Speaker 1: But wouldn't it have been easy for the perp, the
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  Speaker 1: killer to be waiting in the lobby waiting for the victim,
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  Speaker 1: Brian Thompson to walk out. He didn't have to be
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  Speaker 1: lying in wait at that side entrance. He could have
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  Speaker 1: simply followed him. He did come up behind him.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, there are couple of things here in
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  Speaker 8: Nancy that is true. And in fact, you know, if
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  Speaker 8: he knew if he was going to be speaking of
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  Speaker 8: the conference.
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  Speaker 7: He didn't have to be waiting outside.
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  Speaker 8: He could have done it just in the lobby upstairs,
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  Speaker 8: in an elevator, or some other other place where he
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  Speaker 8: knew there was kind of a kind of cool choke
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  Speaker 8: point where he would have had to travel through in
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  Speaker 8: order to get to the conference.
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  Speaker 7: The other thing is that which kind.
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  Speaker 8: Of points to perhaps something more someone from the area
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  Speaker 8: or from the region, is the fact that mister Simpson
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  Speaker 8: lives out in Minnesota. The day to day he comes
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  Speaker 8: to and from work, he comes to and from his home,
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  Speaker 8: he goes perhaps to see maybe his children's sporting events,
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  Speaker 8: who knows what. But those are kind of open areas,
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  Speaker 8: other areas where he could have been a targeted. But
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  Speaker 8: yet this was done in New York City, where he
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  Speaker 8: doesn't live, where he was visiting, where this person would
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  Speaker 8: have only had a couple of days opportunity for any
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  Speaker 8: kind of reconnaissance and kind of staging this event. And
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  Speaker 8: so it kind of leads me to suggest that this
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  Speaker 8: person shows New York either because it's more difficult, you
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  Speaker 8: can get lost in the city, you can do things
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  Speaker 8: like this. It could have disappear into Central Park and
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  Speaker 8: perhaps try to hide your trails, you know, or it
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  Speaker 8: was a matter of convenience that the person was in
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  Speaker 8: and around the area and didn't have to travel to Minnesota.
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  Speaker 1: You're right. The victim in town to speak at an
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  Speaker 1: investor conference.
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  Speaker 9: Listen, the victim was in New York City to speak
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  Speaker 9: at an investor conference. It appears a suspect was lying
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  Speaker 9: in wait for several minutes, and as the victim was
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  Speaker 9: walking to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind
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  Speaker 9: and fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once
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  Speaker 9: in the back and at least once in the right calf.
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  Speaker 9: Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to wait
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  Speaker 9: for his intended target.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's clearly targeted, Bill Daily. There is no robbery,
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  Speaker 1: there is no carjacking, there is no sex attack, So
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  Speaker 1: it's targeted. Can we look at the photo of the
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  Speaker 1: suspect's face. Now, we keep hearing we don't know much
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  Speaker 1: about him, but I can tell you right now he's white.
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  Speaker 1: Number one. He knows enough to cover his face. But
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  Speaker 1: I say that he is not wearing gloves. To Lauren Conlin,
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  Speaker 1: what can you tell me about a discarded water bottle?
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  Speaker 6: The discarded water bottle, Nancy, was found in the alleyway,
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  Speaker 6: which is between fifty third and fifty fourth Street. It's
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  Speaker 6: the big Field Ballroom alleyway.
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  Speaker 4: A pro would not leave behind a water bottle.
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  Speaker 1: A pro wouldn't even be drinking anything right before you've
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  Speaker 1: murdered somebody.
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  Speaker 7: Exactly.
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  Speaker 8: You're right, Nancy, And go to my suggestion, this person
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  Speaker 8: again kind of orchestrated this pre planned it.
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  Speaker 7: I thought it out.
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  Speaker 8: You speak about perhaps the weapon a little bit later
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  Speaker 8: on all these things trying to somebody who is knowledgeable
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  Speaker 8: about only what they were doing, but certainly not a professional.
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  Speaker 8: That's somebody we might see kind of portrayed.
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  Speaker 7: In the movies. These people would be.
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  Speaker 8: Much more sub rosa about their efforts, would kind of
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  Speaker 8: not be seen beforehand. And I'm going to suggest to
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  Speaker 8: you is that besides this video and these images we
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  Speaker 8: have now as a police are looking to kind of
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  Speaker 8: put together both the timeline and his trail, there'll be
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  Speaker 8: some more coming out and we'll have we'll have some
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  Speaker 8: more images. Perhaps the DNA may help. But as we
• 12:03
  Speaker 8: all know working these cases, is you need to have
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  Speaker 8: something to compare it to. You need to have some
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  Speaker 8: database to compared to or using ancestral DNA, perhaps tie
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  Speaker 8: this person back to someone else and work through that angle.
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  Speaker 8: So even though we have all these things, and it
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  Speaker 8: could be who knows, maybe fragmented fingerprints on the bollet
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  Speaker 8: casings or other evidence left behind, but again you need
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  Speaker 8: something to compare it to.
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  Speaker 5: What we know is that the shooter arrived at the
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  Speaker 5: location on foot about five minutes prior to the victim's arrival.
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  Speaker 5: He stands alongside the building line as numerous other people
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  Speaker 5: and pedestrians pass him by. From video, we see at
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  Speaker 5: six forty four am, the victim is walking alone towards
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  Speaker 5: the Hilton at the exiting his hotel across the street.
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  Speaker 5: We believe the victim was headed to the Hilton hotel
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  Speaker 5: to attend the United Health Group investors conference that was
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: scheduled to start at eight am.
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  Speaker 1: Let me look at that stance one more time where
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  Speaker 1: the seater is pointing, pointing the gun at the victim.
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  Speaker 4: You know, everybody on the panel jump in, but Bill.
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  Speaker 1: Danley look at that. It looks like someone has been
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: watching too many movies and they.
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  Speaker 4: Think that's a professional killer stance.
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  Speaker 1: You see that right there. I'm just telling you, look,
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  Speaker 1: he doesn't have on gloves. He's been hanging out, drinking
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  Speaker 1: from a water bottle that he leaves behind. I also
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: understand a cell phone has been left behind.
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  Speaker 4: And then he gets on a city bike.
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  Speaker 1: It reminds me of a bank robbery I prosecuted where
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the purp had a bike waiting around the corner. He
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: was anything but a pro and he pedaled off just
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: like this guy is doing. What do you make of that, bill?
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  Speaker 8: You know, all these things kind of add up to
• 13:48
  Speaker 8: the fact that this person again gave some thought. But
• 13:51
  Speaker 8: yet it's about quote professional I mean, we really don't
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  Speaker 8: have these kind of quote professional hit men throughout the country.
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  Speaker 7: Maybe the mafia does.
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  Speaker 8: But we're not talking about people, not the executives. This
• 14:01
  Speaker 8: doesn't happen in the United States. Perhaps overseas and perhaps
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  Speaker 8: a concern when people travel the high risk locations, but
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  Speaker 8: certainly not in New York City. But I'd probably tell
• 14:08
  Speaker 8: you is that both that stands is kind of a
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  Speaker 8: suggestion that the person both the knew what they were doing,
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  Speaker 8: but also the fact that this gun jam the jam
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  Speaker 8: several times apparently right to each shot. According to police,
• 14:20
  Speaker 8: they believe that it jammed maybe because there was a
• 14:23
  Speaker 8: silencer on the front a silence or that perhaps caused
• 14:26
  Speaker 8: the jam to occur, but he did clear it very
• 14:28
  Speaker 8: quickly and efficiently, So he is somebody who did do
• 14:31
  Speaker 8: some practice training with that weapon beforehand.
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  Speaker 1: Well, well, Lauren Colin, the gun jammed more than once.
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  Speaker 6: Apparently it jammed between shots, but you know that didn't
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  Speaker 6: stop him, so he kept shooting after this?
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  Speaker 1: Or is yes, okay, that's telling me a lot right there,
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  Speaker 1: Daily Daily Daily, A pro is going to take a
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  Speaker 1: gun that jams between every shot? Really?
• 14:55
  Speaker 8: Yeah, Well, I'm going to some of the forensic guests
• 14:57
  Speaker 8: versus that by using that silence or again, silencers are
• 15:00
  Speaker 8: nothings that you were supposed to legally have, So if
• 15:03
  Speaker 8: it was homemade, it could have caused more of this
• 15:05
  Speaker 8: kind of malfunction of the weapon. But again it did
• 15:09
  Speaker 8: seem as though calmly he cleared that weapon.
• 15:11
  Speaker 10: He was able to pull a slide on the top
• 15:13
  Speaker 10: Daily Did you say homemade?
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Look, this is whoo, this is melan This is not pro.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I don't even know where that came from.
• 15:24
  Speaker 10: A homemade silencelencer, But come on, man, a homemade silencer
• 15:35
  Speaker 10: that doesn't work A pretend professional killer stance, drinking a
• 15:40
  Speaker 10: water bottle and leaving it behind and hopping on a bike.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: Without gloves and taking off.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: No, no, uhuh, I gotta figure this thing out, guys.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Why was a health ceo worth millions of dollars gunned
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: down in public early early morning?
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: Many people say it's a pro chiller.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: The shooter then flees on foot northbound into an alleyway
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: between fifty fourth Street and fifty fifth Street. Once at
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: West fifty fifth Street, the shooter continues to walk westbound
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: on the Avenue in Americas, where he gets onto an
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: electric E City bike and rides northbound on the Avenue
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: Americas towards Central Park. At six forty eight am, we
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: have the shooter riding this bike into Central Park at
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: Center Drive. We're still tracking video. The last we see
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: with him on that bike is in Central Park. At
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: the scene, we recover three live nine millimeters rounds and
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: three discharged nine milimeters shell casings. The motor for this
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: murder currently is unknown, but based on the evidence we
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: have so far, it does appear that the victim was
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: specifically targeted, but at this point we do not know why.
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: This does not appear to be a random act of violence.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: Okay, I know that.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I know it's not random joining me high profile lawyer BERNARDA. Vielona,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: New York criminal defense attorney. This is her bait. She
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: is also a former prosecutor. Bernardo, thank you for being
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: with us. What do you make of it so far?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Because not only did the pro assassin lead behind three
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: discharged nine millimere shellcasings, they were engraved with three cryptic words.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's straight out of a crime novel.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: And another thing, BERNARDA. Anybody that knows how to.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Type goog l E can find out this guy was
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: speaking where and at what time?
• 17:33
  Speaker 11: Yeah, but I still think there's an inside job because
• 17:36
  Speaker 11: in a sense of they could have known where he
• 17:37
  Speaker 11: was speaking, but they wouldn't have known exactly what time
• 17:40
  Speaker 11: he would have been leaving out of his hotel.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Because remember this shooter had only.
• 17:44
  Speaker 11: Been waiting about five minutes, so he had to have
• 17:46
  Speaker 11: had some kind of inside information to know the exact
• 17:50
  Speaker 11: time that Brian Thompson would have been leaving his hotel.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Look, all of this looks very shady.
• 17:55
  Speaker 11: I don't think it's a professional kill at all, because
• 17:57
  Speaker 11: number one, believing of the showcases and the bullets there
• 18:02
  Speaker 11: and then jumping on a bike. I think there's a
• 18:04
  Speaker 11: lot more to this. I don't see that there's going
• 18:06
  Speaker 11: to be an arrest anytime soon, though.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Hold on just a moment on that Daily Bill Daily
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: with me former FBI investigator and joining us from New York,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: intimately familiar with the ins and outs the alleyways where
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: this happened. The guy then goes to Central Park. That
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: was a pretty good move, and it's not that far
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: from where the shooting was by bike. But he goes
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: into Central Park, which is blanketed with surveillance videos, I mean,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: and we can follow his trail. He had to ditch
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: the bike somewhere. I think that we're going to find
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: out where he leaves the bike. And again no gloves.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: As you said earlier, of course you got to have
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: something to compare it to. If he's not in the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: DNA or the APHIS database, we don't have anything to
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: match it too. But that said, can we just agree
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: this is not a pro.
• 19:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I surely agree it's not a pro.
• 19:04
  Speaker 8: I also think that there's other probably kind of breadcrumbs
• 19:07
  Speaker 8: left behind, is that you know, if this was connected
• 19:11
  Speaker 8: with either the business, because of see that either of
• 19:14
  Speaker 8: the had been a customer who was certainly totally upset
• 19:19
  Speaker 8: and obsessed with this individual, or perhaps a former employee.
• 19:22
  Speaker 7: That could have been a number of things.
• 19:24
  Speaker 8: But I think there people have to go back and
• 19:26
  Speaker 8: looking at where the threats against the company. Apparently, according
• 19:28
  Speaker 8: to the victim's wife there were, and if there were,
• 19:32
  Speaker 8: who was making those and what was the steps?
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Let me catch up with.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: What you're just saying, Bill Daily, Lauren Conlin.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Now, according to one person, there have been threats on
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the victim's law and that is his wife. Were those
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: threats ever reported to l A law enforcement?
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Nancy?
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: Those threats were never reported to law enforcement?
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: With me?
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: Also, is Scott Iiker founding member.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: I can't say this off of the FBI's cellular analysis
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: survey team.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: Can I just say? He didn't just fall off the
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: turnip truck?
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: People? I ker if I was going to pick him off,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I would go somewhere with a silencer and wait out
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere right let.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: His body lay there for three or four hours before.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Anybody figures anything out. So why intentionally find him in
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: New York City?
• 20:27
  Speaker 12: I agree, there's a lot of other places that you
• 20:29
  Speaker 12: could have done this murder? But there's a lot of
• 20:32
  Speaker 12: benefits of doing it in a crowded city also. I mean,
• 20:35
  Speaker 12: if you think about it, you might be able to
• 20:36
  Speaker 12: mix in with the regular people walking to and from work,
• 20:40
  Speaker 12: cars and everything like that. He didn't think about all
• 20:43
  Speaker 12: the cameras in the area.
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: He didn't think.
• 20:45
  Speaker 13: About all the people that might see different things. And
• 20:48
  Speaker 13: obviously I agree with the other gentleman that says I
• 20:52
  Speaker 13: don't think this guy is a professional. I do think
• 20:54
  Speaker 13: he has some training. I mean, I was on the
• 20:56
  Speaker 13: FBI SWAT team. I shot twice a week, and I
• 21:01
  Speaker 13: can see that type of stance that he had some
• 21:03
  Speaker 13: training for him to do that malfunction clear that gone
• 21:08
  Speaker 13: shoot again, clear it clear it.
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: That takes training in time.
• 21:12
  Speaker 13: So I think, at least in my mind, he's made
• 21:15
  Speaker 13: a lot of mistakes. I don't think he's a professional.
• 21:18
  Speaker 13: I totally agree with that, but he has had some training.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: And we are learning more from Chief of Detectives Joe.
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: Kenney from speaking to other employees. I traveled with him
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: to New York. Doesn't seem that he had these security
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: detail He left the hotel by himself, was walking, didn't
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: seem like he had any issues at all. So I
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: don't think he didn't have a security detail.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: Lauren Conlin, correct me if I'm wrong.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: But wasn't there just a firefighter's pension fund that sued
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the victim because he dumped about thirty one percent of
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: his stock made fifteen million dollars just before everything went south, right,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: and there's a complaint about that. That's happening.
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: The wife says, there's death threats.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: He's worth millions of dollars and he doesn't have security detail.
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: Yes, his net worth is forty three million dollars.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Nancy.
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: And not only that, I found a plethora of lawsuits.
• 22:16
  Speaker 6: He was accused of creating an algorithm to deny patients coverage.
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: So I found quite a few lawsuits there. And then
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: additionally there was a data breach a few I believe
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: it was February of twenty twenty four, where many many
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: people were at risk and not happy.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. It's hard for me to
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: believe that the healthcare assassin who guns down a father
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: a husband in cold blood has become some sort of
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: a folk hero for people who view executives in the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: health care industry as greedy scoundrel Well, they may be
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: greedy scoundrels, but I don't think murder is the answer.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Prosecutor Sam and GIONI gunned down Thompson on a Manhattan
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: street because he Luigi thought insurers were parasites that abuse citizens.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: And that may be true, But murder, what do we know?
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Listen to this, It's just like a fifth grade girl
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: writes an action thriller or tries to listen.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Police have released a new chilling detail in the assassination
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: style shooting. Three live rounds and three shellcasings recovered from
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: the crime scene, and cops are now saying there are
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: inscriptions on the shellcasings. The words deny, defend, and depose
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: were engraved on the bullets.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: So the words deny, defend, and depose were engraved on
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: the bullets. By who? The local jeweler joining me right
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: now is a ballistics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: and star of a hit series Body Bags That Joe
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan Joe Scott Really, okay, I can't hammer this
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: enough a pro What did they write it in?
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: Fancy cursive? Deny defend depos.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Seriously, that sounds like the ransom note left behind in
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: John Benay a small foreign faction once one hundred and
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: eighteen thousand dollars stop.
• 24:30
  Speaker 14: What's really fascinating about this, Nancy, is the fact that
• 24:34
  Speaker 14: they've got three spent casings that are on the ground,
• 24:36
  Speaker 14: and then they have the three live rounds, and he's
• 24:40
  Speaker 14: having to try to clear this weapon because he's had
• 24:42
  Speaker 14: a malfunction, which actually does occur with some frequency when
• 24:47
  Speaker 14: you have a suppressed weapon. And the fact that he
• 24:53
  Speaker 14: had engraving and I keep hearing this term, this engraving
• 24:57
  Speaker 14: that was only casing the fact that he had a
• 25:04
  Speaker 14: jam in the weapon. I would think that it would
• 25:08
  Speaker 14: be engraved on all of the rounds. So how can
• 25:10
  Speaker 14: you plan for that, for instance, that these rounds are stacked,
• 25:13
  Speaker 14: which they would be in a magazine, and every time
• 25:18
  Speaker 14: he clears it, he's going to eject a live round
• 25:22
  Speaker 14: as opposed to those that were spent when he was firing.
• 25:25
  Speaker 14: If you watch the sequence from a video, he fires
• 25:28
  Speaker 14: once and then it looks like he clears, but he
• 25:32
  Speaker 14: may have actually cleared two rounds at that point in
• 25:34
  Speaker 14: time that we're still live because the weapon is jamming
• 25:37
  Speaker 14: on him and he has to cycle through it, so
• 25:40
  Speaker 14: he's taken a lot of time. My suspicion is it
• 25:44
  Speaker 14: might be there might be engraving on all of the rounds,
• 25:47
  Speaker 14: and that he has taken a lot of time somewhere,
• 25:50
  Speaker 14: probably you know, at home or wherever it is. He
• 25:52
  Speaker 14: shows up prepared to a certain degree, although he didn't
• 25:56
  Speaker 14: wear gloves and he didn't fully mask his face. It
• 26:00
  Speaker 14: there's a lot still to kind of untangle here, but
• 26:03
  Speaker 14: that point is certainly fascinating. I've never encountered this before
• 26:08
  Speaker 14: in my years in forensics to this degree. Now, Hollywood
• 26:12
  Speaker 14: makes a big deal out of this kind of thing,
• 26:14
  Speaker 14: but it's just not something you commonly run into. My
• 26:18
  Speaker 14: question is what's the skill level of the engraving, in
• 26:21
  Speaker 14: addition to attempting to define how this was engraved, what
• 26:28
  Speaker 14: instrumentality was used, and then maybe the folks will be
• 26:31
  Speaker 14: able to pick up on some form in his writing
• 26:34
  Speaker 14: if he's doing this freehand.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Brian Thompson's wife, Paulette tells NBC News that Brian has
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: been receiving death threats. She doesn't go into detail, saying
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: it was basically due to a lack of coverage. She
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: doesn't know exactly, but Brian said there were some people
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: that had been threatening him.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Straight back out to Joe Scott Morgan joining us. Jo Scott,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: if I said earlier, if there was a death thout
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: on my husband a I would let him travel alone
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to New York. I would at least go with him
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: at the very least. But that said, they have children
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to take care of back at home. But no security detail,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: no police reports, nothing, And she is the only one
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: coming forward with the alleged threats if they weren't reported
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: to police. Can anyone within the company verify this ever happened.
• 27:21
  Speaker 14: Well, he hasn't spoken of this to anybody that's around him,
• 27:24
  Speaker 14: but why would he not, you know, say something about this.
• 27:28
  Speaker 14: And let me tell you one more thing. A guy
• 27:31
  Speaker 14: that is in his atmosphere. You know, we see all
• 27:33
  Speaker 14: these celerity they called celebrities that are out there that
• 27:35
  Speaker 14: have these you know, security details with it. This is
• 27:39
  Speaker 14: a guy, Nancy, that actually has a level of value
• 27:44
  Speaker 14: and would heighten anybody's a census relative to the danger
• 27:50
  Speaker 14: he could potentially be in. Why wouldn't you put a
• 27:53
  Speaker 14: couple of people on him to check the wout at
• 27:55
  Speaker 14: least to be body people that are going to score
• 27:58
  Speaker 14: him around. Maybe he didn't want that. I have no idea,
• 28:01
  Speaker 14: but I do know that he's a prime target. It's
• 28:04
  Speaker 14: just fascinating to me that they chose this particular location
• 28:07
  Speaker 14: this individual went about it in this manner because I
• 28:11
  Speaker 14: agree with all of the other panelists. I think this
• 28:13
  Speaker 14: guy has some weapons familiarity, but he is in no
• 28:16
  Speaker 14: way of pro If he had been a pro, we
• 28:19
  Speaker 14: would not have seen the video last that long.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: If you're sitting down, you may need to lay down
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: for what you're about to hear. Take a listen.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: The suspect was reportedly spoted outside a public housing project
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: roughly three miles from the crime scene at five am,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: caring would look like an e bike battery. He's then
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: seen again checking out at Starbucks not far from the Hilton,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: in just minutes before the attack. It's unclear what exactly
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: the suspect purchase, but police believe a water bottle and
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: candy wrapper left at the crime scene may belong to
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: the shooter and are testing the items for latent fingerprints
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: and DNA.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: The next thing we're going to hear, Lauren Colin, is
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: that the shooter used a credit card. I mean he
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: hung out at a Starbucks just before the shooting, and
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: of course places himself at a public housing project. Yeah,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: that's right. Blame the people of the housing project somehow
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: drag that into it. I guarantee that was orchestrated three
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: miles from the scene with what looked to be carrying
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: an e bike battery in cases e bike crapped out
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: on him. Now, at first, this is reported to be
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: a city bike, the kind that are easily accessed all
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: around New York City. Now we're hearing it may not
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: be a city bike. That said, then he's at Starbucks
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: just beside the Hilton minutes before the attack, staring straight
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: into the surveillance cameras. So there's not just a water
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: bottle he leaves behind a candy wrapper. Somebody needs a
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: bit of honey, somebody wants the starbus before a murder.
• 29:45
  Speaker 6: Yes, and there also have been reports that NYPD believes
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: that he may have actually taken this subway from the
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: Upper west Side to Midtown and to that Starbucks.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Wait, then, if he was on the Upper west Side,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: then he spotted at a housing project. There's not a
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: housing project on the Upper west Side. Okay, that's where
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: all the rich people live to look down on Central Park.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: There's not a housing project there. So does he leave
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: the Upper West to go to a housing project to
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: be spotted and then go to the Starbucks?
• 30:19
  Speaker 6: Well, that's what police are trying to figure.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: Out, and I didn't.
• 30:22
  Speaker 15: Well, I'm hoping that.
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: He did take the subway because Mayor Eric Adams did
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: implement more cameras earlier this year.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, I got a lot of surveillance on this guy,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: but you're right, subway would help me figure out where
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: he's coming from, where he's going, and how he knows
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: those paths. I'm still flummoxed by the fact that he
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: would leave a water bottle with his DNA on it,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: a candy wrapper, take a bike, no gloves, has a
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: pretend pro shooter stance, and has engraved bullets for Pete's sake.
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: Why not just throw down your driver's license before you leave.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, now we hear about a potential eyewitness that goes
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: on the run.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Police still have not identified the eyewitness who ran from
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: the scene as Thompson was gunned down. A woman dressed
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: in dark clothing and holding a coffee cup was standing
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: in a doorway just feet away from Thompson. When the
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: shooter opened fire. She runs along the building toward the
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: shooter to avoid the gunfire and disappears from frame. Authorities
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: are asking her to come forward, hoping she may be
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: able to provide new details on the shooter.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: As a cull phone recovered in the alleyway. We're working
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: through that cell phone. Obviously, we'll be processing it forensically
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: at as far as words be in exchanged. We do
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: not have audio of the incident. We only have the
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: regular video. Nothing for well, there's one witness standing right
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: next to the victim when he was shot. We're still
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: trying to identify that victim. Excuse me, excuse me, that witness.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: And we also learn that law enforcement has turned their
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: attention back home to Minnesota once again.
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: We're looking at everything. We're looking at his social media.
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: We are interview employees, we are interviewing family members. We
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: will be speaking to law enforcement in Minnesota.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Well, that sounds like a
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: happy birthday to me. One point five million dollars in counting. Wow,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: he may be counting his money now, but I'm sure
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: his defense attorneys will run right through it. But don't worry.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Then Mommy and Daddy will fund your defense because they're
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: all multimillionaires. What are the facts we expect to be
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: produced at trial. Mangioni also charged by the Feds and
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: indicted for several counts of stalking and murder through use
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: of a firearm, but a judge throughout the murder firearm charge,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: making him ineligible for the death penalty. Thanks Judge.
• 32:52
  Speaker 16: In a stunning federal court SmackDown that has sent shock
• 32:56
  Speaker 16: waves through the Department of Justice, the Ivy League educ
• 33:00
  Speaker 16: tech worker accused of executing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson
• 33:05
  Speaker 16: has officially escaped the threat of the death penalty. US
• 33:11
  Speaker 16: District Judge Margaret Garnett delivered the massive blow to federal
• 33:16
  Speaker 16: prosecutors Friday, gutting the capital charges against twenty seven year
• 33:20
  Speaker 16: old Luigi Mangioni just minutes before he appeared in a
• 33:25
  Speaker 16: Manhattan courtroom. His attorney, Karen Agnifilo, hailed the decision and
• 33:30
  Speaker 16: spoke to reporters outside the courthouse.
• 33:34
  Speaker 17: Just wanted to thank the court for this incredible decision.
• 33:39
  Speaker 17: We want to thank this amazing legal team that we
• 33:41
  Speaker 17: have here. It's really wonderful, all of them, and thank
• 33:45
  Speaker 17: all the people who come out stand here in the cold,
• 33:48
  Speaker 17: and the people who can't come here. All the supporters.
• 33:51
  Speaker 17: We get your letters, we get your emails, and we
• 33:53
  Speaker 17: really appreciate all the support.
• 33:55
  Speaker 14: Karen, what was mister Mantioni's reaction when he learned the
• 33:58
  Speaker 14: death penalty was off the table.
• 34:00
  Speaker 17: We're all very relieved.
• 34:01
  Speaker 16: The decision effectively neuters Attorney General Pam Bonni's push for
• 34:05
  Speaker 16: execution in a case the government branded a quote premeditated
• 34:10
  Speaker 16: cold blooded assassination end quote. Judge Garnett dismissed two counts
• 34:16
  Speaker 16: of murder through use of a firearm, ruling that the
• 34:20
  Speaker 16: underlying charge of interstate stalking does not meet the strict
• 34:25
  Speaker 16: legal definition of a prime of violence required to support
• 34:29
  Speaker 16: a capital conviction. While Garnet acknowledged the ruling might strike
• 34:34
  Speaker 16: the public as quote unquote tortured and strange given the
• 34:38
  Speaker 16: high profile nature of the slang, she insisted that quote
• 34:42
  Speaker 16: the law must be the court's only concern end quote. Mangioni,
• 34:47
  Speaker 16: dressed in tanjail scrubs and shackled at the feet, showed
• 34:51
  Speaker 16: little emotion as the execution bid was dismantled. However, the
• 34:56
  Speaker 16: ruling was not a total wash for the government. In
• 34:59
  Speaker 16: a critical win for the Feds, the judge shot down
• 35:03
  Speaker 16: claims that a bungled investigation tainted the arrest. Garnett ruled
• 35:07
  Speaker 16: the mountain of evidence pulled from Mangioni's backpack, including the
• 35:13
  Speaker 16: three D pinted pistol, a loaded clip, and a macabre
• 35:17
  Speaker 16: so called survival kit, is fully admissible at trial. Prosecutors
• 35:22
  Speaker 16: can also use the defendant's own notebook, which allegedly contained
• 35:26
  Speaker 16: a chilling manifesto and plans to quote unquote whack the
• 35:30
  Speaker 16: insurance big wig. The search was deemed legal under Pennsylvania's
• 35:35
  Speaker 16: inventory protocols, despite Mangioni's defense team arguing the warrantless search
• 35:41
  Speaker 16: was a quote unquote legal quagmire. While federal prosecutors have
• 35:45
  Speaker 16: yet to announce an appeal, Mangioni's federal trial is now
• 35:48
  Speaker 16: tentatively set for September eighth. He remains held without bail
• 35:53
  Speaker 16: at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, now facing a
• 35:57
  Speaker 16: maximum of life behind bars rather than a date with
• 36:01
  Speaker 16: the needle. Meanwhile, the Manhattan DA is still aggressively pushing
• 36:06
  Speaker 16: for a state murder trial to begin as early as July.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: First, you heard right, Luigi Mangioni, as of right now
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: will not face the death penalty. Judge Margaret Garnett ruled
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: against prosecutors seeking the death penalty, and word to the
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: wise prosecution team, you need to take the judge's ruling
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: up on immediate appeal. I've done it myself when I
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: got a bad evidentiary ruling.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: At trial, I would say, Judge, we need a recess.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: I'm taking this up on immediate appeal, which means I
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: would have somebody in the appellate division type out an
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: appeal of the judge's bad ruling and walk it right
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: up the street to the Court of Appeals. It's like
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: three blocks. I would not take that lying down, not
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: with fact like these. What happened to Brian Thompson?
• 37:03
  Speaker 15: Now, one, what is the address of your emergency that's not.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: Really an emergency.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I have a customer here that some other customers were.
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: Suspicions of that he looks like the CEO shooter York.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, straight out to Cala Brandtley, joining US investigative reporter
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: at large dailymail dot com. Did they actually say in
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: court that their client, luigim Angioni is the victim because
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: his quote beautiful, promising life has been derailed.
• 37:37
  Speaker 18: Yeah, Nancy, As you mentioned, his team did paint him
• 37:40
  Speaker 18: as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that
• 37:43
  Speaker 18: had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain.
• 37:48
  Speaker 18: This was something that he went through. He went through
• 37:50
  Speaker 18: back surgery. And one thing that they say here is
• 37:53
  Speaker 18: that the real enemy here is the medical system, and
• 37:58
  Speaker 18: that is one thing that you can definitely expect. His
• 38:01
  Speaker 18: legal team argue.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Kella, can I believe you are my lion eyes control room?
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Please show me him a running along the beach in Hawaii.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I've got videos of him lifting up girls and tickling them.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: It's a video. They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: got photos of him lounging by the beach. I'd love
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: to see those photos of him hiking and what looks
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: to be a jungle rainfall. Oh, he is feeling no
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: pain there, Kela Brantley, I hope you don't fall for
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: that look like and seeker. Doctor Judy Hoe, did you
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: know that luigimi Jioni is apparently the victim in this scenario,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Doctor Judy Hoe, is joining US clinical forensic neuro psychologist,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: author of the New Rules of Attachment and another bestseller,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Stop Self Sabotage. You need to write one, doctor Judy
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Hoe about try to tell the truth and then send it.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: You know, I'll pay for it and we can send
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: it to Luigi Mangioni. He is not the victim here.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: But you know you can't count out the defense attorney Agnefello.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: He got Sean Combs off on the major accusations in
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: that indictment. So no matter how ridiculous I may think
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: he sounds, he essentially won that case. Yes, his defense
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: team that claims Luigi Mangioni is the victim. I want
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: to read it, doctor Judy Hope. Beautiful promising life derailed
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: by those irritating murder charges.
• 39:33
  Speaker 19: Judy, Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy, what a narrative. And
• 39:39
  Speaker 19: as you said, even though he's not the victim.
• 39:41
  Speaker 20: I think this is why there has been a fan
• 39:43
  Speaker 20: base though, because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe
• 39:47
  Speaker 20: he is a victim, that he's some type of anti hero,
• 39:51
  Speaker 20: that he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this in individuals
• 39:55
  Speaker 20: who might act charismatically, they.
• 39:58
  Speaker 21: Just seem to pull people in. And it's weird because
• 40:02
  Speaker 21: a lot of these people who develop this sort of
• 40:05
  Speaker 21: fan fanhood around Luigi, they're kind of thinking, well, maybe
• 40:09
  Speaker 21: I can be a special person in his life, maybe
• 40:12
  Speaker 21: he'll pay attention to me. Maybe I can even develop
• 40:15
  Speaker 21: a friendship with this person. This person might learn to
• 40:17
  Speaker 21: trust me. It's really interesting, but some of it actually
• 40:20
  Speaker 21: has to do with a self centeredness of people who
• 40:23
  Speaker 21: might actually talk to him that.
• 40:25
  Speaker 19: They're hoping to get something special out of it for themselves.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Doret Gidio. I know you're the clinical and
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: forensic neuropsychologist, but I don't even know what you just said.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: How can the defense stand up and say this is
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: not about the murder victim. Can we show please, Brian
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Thompson walking along and he's gunned down in cold blood,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: leaving behind two sons and a wife.
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: That's the victim.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: According to prosecutors, it's Luigi Mangioni holding a three D
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: weapon that he made that it took dozens and dozens
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: of hours to make, so he can gun down a
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: guy walking to work in the back. You stated, I
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: don't know what that was, doctor Judijo. I'm not saying
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: you're wrong. I'm just saying I'm just a trial lawyer.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Didn't understand it. But I think I know some of
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: the people that consider Luigi Mangioni to be the victim.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: And here they are filing in to court. Okay, oh
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: what Luigi fights fascists. Okay, look at this line. Now,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: wait till you see the cat walk parade of sad
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: sack women filing in to They won't even show their
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: face to get a glimpse of Luigi Mangioni. Yes, keep
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: it going, keep it going, they can. I've got hours
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: of people. Yeah, that was totally walking the cat walk
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: right there, clamoring to get in to just bask in
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: the glow of Luigi Mangioni. Oh, it keeps going. Yeah,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: on and on. They had to turn women away, and
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: it's not just women. Listen.
• 42:23
  Speaker 22: So this is who police believe was responsible for the
• 42:25
  Speaker 22: United Healthcare CEO PEPW. His name's Glubigi. All I can say,
• 42:31
  Speaker 22: isa Mia, does he need a Mario? I believe it
• 42:35
  Speaker 22: was a great philosopher and poet once said, Mama, I'm
• 42:38
  Speaker 22: in love with a criminal, and this type of love
• 42:41
  Speaker 22: isn't rational, it's physical. That was Britney Spears, and I
• 42:46
  Speaker 22: believe we're all feeling that right now. I believe, if
• 42:48
  Speaker 22: you're going to do superhero like shit, you better look
• 42:50
  Speaker 22: like one. Okay, this man clearly did that. Did he
• 42:53
  Speaker 22: train at the Marvel studios with all the other Chris says, okay,
• 42:55
  Speaker 22: because Luigi, that's a spicy meat the ball.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry.
• 43:00
  Speaker 22: I believe if we're going to claim to be a
• 43:01
  Speaker 22: Christian nation, that we need to act like one. And
• 43:03
  Speaker 22: part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness. And after
• 43:08
  Speaker 22: a lot of seconds of thinking, I have decided I'm
• 43:12
  Speaker 22: gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him, right, but
• 43:15
  Speaker 22: not forget, because I mean, my god, how could you
• 43:17
  Speaker 22: forget an angel like this? I'm not gonna For a
• 43:19
  Speaker 22: while thought, oh my god, we're never going to find him,
• 43:21
  Speaker 22: you know. And I was wrong, because somewhere on the way,
• 43:24
  Speaker 22: the ups and downs, the highs and lows, the masks
• 43:27
  Speaker 22: and no masks, this man he found a way into
• 43:33
  Speaker 22: our hearts.
• 43:35
  Speaker 7: He did.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I hardly even know where to start with that. That
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: is from mister William's spreck on Tiktalk. I'm in love
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: with a criminal, and I forgive him after a few
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: seconds of consideration, Doctor Gudy hoe It, I can't say
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: it gets worse, but there's more.
• 43:58
  Speaker 23: Listen, my man, say there's blood on When you're the
• 44:11
  Speaker 23: one with the girl.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Who's dicking lass for fun, you can't take my man.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: And that's from Scarlet Park TikTok. So it's gone beyond
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: calling him a spicy meatball. These people actually consider Luigimi
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: and Gioni their man, and they are angry with the
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: fans for prosecuting. What have I gone down the rabbit hole?
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Am I in some crazy bizarre alice in Wonderland? What
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: is happening, Doctor Judy Hoe.
• 44:50
  Speaker 19: I know it seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen.
• 44:54
  Speaker 19: People start to idolize these potential uh. I mean, clearly
• 44:59
  Speaker 19: this the defendant, right, but they're thinking, in their minds,
• 45:03
  Speaker 19: this person is innocent. Maybe I'm going to be their
• 45:05
  Speaker 19: special person, and they're lusting after them the way that
• 45:08
  Speaker 19: they would lust after a celebrity, especially when they see
• 45:11
  Speaker 19: photos and videos that they can start cutting into their
• 45:14
  Speaker 19: own social media. They're developing a fictionalized relationship with him,
• 45:18
  Speaker 19: a fantasy and essentially completely erasing all of the facts
• 45:23
  Speaker 19: that have been evident in this case, and clearly the
• 45:25
  Speaker 19: defendant's attorneys are trying to paint that picture as well,
• 45:28
  Speaker 19: leaning into it as hard as possible, because they're hoping
• 45:30
  Speaker 19: to influence the public opinion even before a jury is selected,
• 45:34
  Speaker 19: so that they can hopefully get him the outcome that
• 45:37
  Speaker 19: he wants, which is apparently to escape a death sentence,
• 45:42
  Speaker 19: escape prison. Maybe I'm not sure exactly what they think
• 45:45
  Speaker 19: is possible, but that's what's so scary about all the
• 45:48
  Speaker 19: positivity that has developed around his persona in terms of
• 45:52
  Speaker 19: all of these illustrations, the website they set up about
• 45:54
  Speaker 19: and it's really concerning.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: And you know, Cheryl mccollumy is joining me. Cold Case
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Investigative Research Institute, founder, author of a brand new book,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Swans Don't Swim in a Sewer, Solving the Cold Case
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: of the Flint River Killer's Daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, Okay,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: do you remember the night that you and I were
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: out until what two o'clock in the morning staking out
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: a location where we thought Luigi Mangioni was going to
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: be apprehended. Do you remember that night? Because I sure
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: do I do. How has this gotten so bass Ackwards
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Cheryl Nancy.
• 46:32
  Speaker 15: It is mind boggling that anybody is trying to paint
• 46:37
  Speaker 15: this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's wife
• 46:43
  Speaker 15: was not just promising. It was in full swing. He
• 46:46
  Speaker 15: had a wife and children and a career at the
• 46:50
  Speaker 15: highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had
• 46:56
  Speaker 15: everything going for him. Mangione had none of that. But
• 47:02
  Speaker 15: he took everything from those children. And I'm going to
• 47:07
  Speaker 15: tell you something, when you look at the people that
• 47:10
  Speaker 15: are contacting him, I hope and pray that those six
• 47:15
  Speaker 15: thousand letters that he's got, that one hundred and fifteen
• 47:19
  Speaker 15: a day, that there's some good intel in there too,
• 47:22
  Speaker 15: because he is writing people back, so he's communicating, and
• 47:28
  Speaker 15: I hope they're listing every piece of it.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Somehow this has gotten topsy turvy upside down. I haven't
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: even gotten into the legal implications of what is happening
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: in court. I'm just so concerned that one of these
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: nutjobs is going to end up on the ultimate jury
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: and acquit. Luigi Mangioni under the misconception that he is
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: somehow the victim again. In court, his lawyers and I'm quoting,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: claimed that his beautiful, promising life has been derailed by
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: murder charges. It's all about me, me, me, Me, me me.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: This is a millionaire's son, multimillionaire who grew up with
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: silver spoon stuck in his mouth and has been living
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: in a Hawaii high rise on the beach doing nothing,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: and yet he's the victim. Can you imagine, Cheryl McCollum,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: how hard Thompson had to work to get to become
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: the CEO at United Healthcare. It wasn't handed to him
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: like it was MANGIONI. He had to work and sacrifice long,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: long hours to get to where he got to to
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: be gunned down like a dog on the sidewalk, Cheryl.
• 48:51
  Speaker 15: Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why I
• 48:55
  Speaker 15: agree with you. This whole thing is upside down. Not
• 48:59
  Speaker 15: only the victim work and sacrifice, so did his wife.
• 49:04
  Speaker 15: You know what it takes. You know how long David
• 49:06
  Speaker 15: has gone during the day. It's not an eight hour day,
• 49:10
  Speaker 15: It's a sixteen seventeen hour game. He was playing at
• 49:14
  Speaker 15: the top of his game. There's no doubt about it.
• 49:17
  Speaker 15: Mangione was giving nothing to a family. He was giving
• 49:22
  Speaker 15: nothing to society. He was contributing z rows and again,
• 49:27
  Speaker 15: what he took cannot even be measured.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: If I hear one more person talk about his back pain,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: that's you, Cali Brantley.
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: I think my.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Head's gonna blow off because I have videos of him
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: tickling these girls and picking them up just before the shooting.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: I can't show it because it has the girl's faces
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: in it. But he was feeling no pain. But it's
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: all about me, me, me, me, me, why me? And
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: he's certainly not the first. Let me refresh your recollection,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: as we say in court with bride killer Jamie Lee Kumarowski.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Listen to her, right, I don't know why it's hard
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: to happen.
• 50:10
  Speaker 20: To me, because bad things happened to good people.
• 50:14
  Speaker 15: Honey, that's why it's.
• 50:17
  Speaker 21: It's just fe It's just something that happened to you.
• 50:21
  Speaker 21: And we are going to deal with the best week.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Pat Okay, Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: You know who the bride killer is, right, Jamie Lee Komarowski.
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: She's guilty.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: She got totally stinking drunk and plowed into a beautiful bride,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: leaving her wedding reception with the groom and killed her.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: And there she is behind bars, going, why is this
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: happening to me?
• 50:52
  Speaker 24: One look and listen to her father, Nancy.
• 50:55
  Speaker 23: What does he say?
• 50:57
  Speaker 24: Well, bad things happen to good people. No they don't.
• 51:01
  Speaker 24: You just killed somebody because of your own actions. But see,
• 51:05
  Speaker 24: we've got a whole group of people now that never
• 51:07
  Speaker 24: want to admit they did anything wrong. Everything is on them.
• 51:12
  Speaker 24: How can you possibly think man Joni is sitting here
• 51:15
  Speaker 24: saying his life is derailed. Well, he destroyed another life
• 51:19
  Speaker 24: and another family. Kambarowski sitting in jail, why is this
• 51:22
  Speaker 24: happening to me?
• 51:23
  Speaker 25: Well?
• 51:23
  Speaker 14: Why not?
• 51:24
  Speaker 15: What did you expect? What happened?
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Sick of this?
• 51:26
  Speaker 24: Nancy is getting really tiresome.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: And there is her victim, Samantha Miller, in her wedding dress,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: just before she's mowed down dead by Jamie Lee Kamarowski.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: And here's I guess this would have to be the
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Miss Universe of Yme Jody Arius check her out. She
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: is more concerned about her makeup as she is approaching
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: trial in the brutal stabbing and shooting death of her
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: fiance Travis Alexander, who was stabbed at least twenty nine
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: times Joe Scott Morgan, and I've argued about that. I
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: say it was more than that. Checking out Jody Arius,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: you should have at least done your makeup before you
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: speak to police about murdering your fiance when he broke
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: up and started seeing someone else. That earlier video from
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: forty eight hours Joe Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, do you
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: recall Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video because
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: is they're about to question her about what could have
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: happened to Travis Alexander. She starts singing and there you go,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: does a headstand and bemoans the fact she doesn't have
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: on her lip gloss. Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: what happened to Travis?
• 52:39
  Speaker 26: Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down, nude,
• 52:46
  Speaker 26: taking a shower, taking dirty pictures, if you will, And
• 52:50
  Speaker 26: while his back is turned, she takes a knife and
• 52:53
  Speaker 26: plunges it into his back over and over and over again.
• 52:56
  Speaker 26: When he turns around to defend himself to try to
• 53:00
  Speaker 26: perry her stabs at him. Uh, he gets stabbed in
• 53:04
  Speaker 26: the chest as well. And if it wasn't enough, after
• 53:08
  Speaker 26: he spits up blood, onto his stink, onto his sink.
• 53:12
  Speaker 26: He crawls, tries to crawl away from her down the hallway.
• 53:16
  Speaker 26: She straddles him and cuts his throat from ear to
• 53:19
  Speaker 26: ear and the kupdi gras she shoots him after he
• 53:23
  Speaker 26: is dead. That's the kind of human that you're looking
• 53:27
  Speaker 26: at right here. She's absolutely disgusting.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: And it's all about me, me, me, just Scott Morgan,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: you've seen it all. I'm gonna try to say say
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: something you haven't seen yet. Speaking of me, me, me,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: and criminal defendants focusing only on themselves and not their victims.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: There is the drunk, stinking, drunk a d a assistant
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: district's attorney, Devin Flanning, and listen to her. The protocol
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: is asketers turn off the body.
• 53:59
  Speaker 10: Can he talked?
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: And that's your protocol, lawyer. So she knows, well, that's
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: lawyer stuff.
• 54:05
  Speaker 26: So that's not true.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: So we gotta go, no it is, that's that's the law.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: I'm an aging.
• 54:10
  Speaker 25: I'm an aging.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: Good for you. Let's go. Those two were kicked out
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: of I think it was a bar for being drunk
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: and belligerent. Then you've got oh gosh, she's been called
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: a screaming band she and do you hear going I'm
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: an a da, I'm an a da. Every sent it
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: starts with I, I I listen to this woman Jocott.
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: He needs not touch me.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: He he wants to call a salt. We're gonna go
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: through that round. No, he wants to go through assault.
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: No, we're not doing that.
• 54:41
  Speaker 15: Then no, he claims I assaulted him. No, we're not
• 54:46
  Speaker 15: doing that.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: We're not doing that. And then, of course maybe this
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: one beats Jody Arius. No, no, no, I'm gonna have
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: to go with Luigi Mangioni and his beautiful life de RealD.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you recall Shana Hebers gave her ex boyfriend
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: the quote nosjop he always wanted with a handgun. Listen,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Sarry Vain.
• 55:10
  Speaker 21: One of our last conversations we had that was good
• 55:12
  Speaker 21: was sitting once my best friend of the dentists to
• 55:14
  Speaker 21: do with the nears and want to get a no job.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Just that kind of person, And I'm right here.
• 55:21
  Speaker 8: I gave him his nose doob he wanted.
• 55:24
  Speaker 25: I want to marry me?
• 55:25
  Speaker 16: If they know that I kill one boyfriend and helped.
• 55:31
  Speaker 22: Not funny, but I'm not your typical you know, you.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Know, Jo Scott Morgan, Professor forensics and death investigator. Your
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: forte is dead, bodies and causes of.
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: Death and modes of death. Let me go to special guests.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Joining us now, Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie Arnold, what is that?
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you saw this for yourself.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: But Mangioni's defensive team is actually.
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: Arguing his life was derailed by the murder charges.
• 56:08
  Speaker 27: You know, Nancy, My thought is that's all they've got.
• 56:11
  Speaker 27: Who cares if his life was derailed. He is accused
• 56:16
  Speaker 27: of murdering someone, Maybe his life should be derailed.
• 56:21
  Speaker 21: But the way I.
• 56:22
  Speaker 27: Feel about this is, Nancy, that's all they've got to say.
• 56:25
  Speaker 27: That is the only thing they've got.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the facts and the law.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Listen taking orders, as she tells the operator, I have
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: He looks like the CEO shooter in New York, and
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: they're generally upset and come to me, and I'm like,
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: I can't approach him. The manager continues working and can
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: be heard talking about bagels at one point shouting one
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: of them is no better. The nine one one operator,
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Emily States, testifies about the call and is heard to
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: ask for a description, with the manager applying. The only
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: thing you can see is the eyebrows.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Joining us is sky Lazarrow. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: She's practiced in both She's practiced in both state and
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: federal court.
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: She is with Ray, Quinny and Nebeker.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Sky. Thank you for being with us. If the defense
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: is arguing that Luigimi and Gioni was illegally arrested, the
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: nine to one one call occurred before the arrest, So
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: what could be the possible grounds for suppressing that call
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: by the MacDonald's manager.
• 57:33
  Speaker 28: I think they're going to have a really hard time
• 57:35
  Speaker 28: keeping the nine one one call out. I can understand
• 57:38
  Speaker 28: it from a defense perspective. You have to try. But
• 57:41
  Speaker 28: when it comes to nine one one calls, as long
• 57:43
  Speaker 28: as you can lay the foundation for it, it's probably
• 57:46
  Speaker 28: coming in.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: I can tell you one thing I know, sky lazarro
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: that they hate about this.
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: Nine to one one call.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: We had the same thing happen in the Idaho Slow
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: of four beautiful Idaho University students where Dylan Mortenson described
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Brian Coberger's freaky bushy eyebrows.
• 58:10
  Speaker 29: Listen, just remember seeing this figure that was like not
• 58:13
  Speaker 29: fat obviously, but more of like the skinnier tongue build.
• 58:17
  Speaker 13: And some mask on.
• 58:18
  Speaker 29: I don't know what the mask exactly was, but when
• 58:20
  Speaker 29: I thought about it, it was just like covering here
• 58:22
  Speaker 29: and here. I don't know if he's covering his mouth
• 58:24
  Speaker 29: his nose or below his mouth and nose. I just
• 58:27
  Speaker 29: remember knowing that he was white, but I don't know
• 58:29
  Speaker 29: how he was white. I just knew he was. And
• 58:32
  Speaker 29: this knowing there's like I knew he had looked at
• 58:34
  Speaker 29: me because of a bushy eye.
• 58:35
  Speaker 14: That's all I remember.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: star of the gold Shields podcast, and he covered the
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: cold Blood. You know, I have had a killer identified.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: He was a chef, by the way, identified by a
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: particular limp that he had. I've had a bank robber
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: identified because he walked slough in it. In other words,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: like it up. They're all sorts of ways to identify someone.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: It can be by voice, it could be any number
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: of things. In this case. The McDonald's manager said, bushy eyebrows,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: and there's no doubt that's Luigi Mangioni. They hate it,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: they hate that identification.
• 59:34
  Speaker 25: Tom, Yeah, they do, because you know, it shows how
• 59:38
  Speaker 25: important Nancy and we did this when we first started
• 59:41
  Speaker 25: talking about this case, how important the videos and all
• 59:45
  Speaker 25: the photos were to get out to the public, even
• 59:48
  Speaker 25: if his face was covered, even if he was in
• 59:51
  Speaker 25: a cab or whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped
• 59:55
  Speaker 25: off the page to everyone who looked at it. That
• 59:58
  Speaker 25: was the number one thing that everyone looked at as
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 25: a looking point and identification point when it came to him.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 25: And it just showed that the quicker they got those
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 25: photos out, the better it was. In the end of this.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm very curious about this, the fact that
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: he is identified at McDonald's by his eyebrows, among other things.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Let's say the pictures of the McDonald's. There you go,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: there he is at McDonald's. But skyl Azaara, don't you
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: think that the defense should be more concerned about the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: fact that he can be identified At the time of
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: the killing, he showed his face repeatedly.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 28: I agree with you. He probably should have been a
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 28: little bit more careful at that time, and that should
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 28: be the stuff they're seeking to exclude, and maybe they will,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 28: I think as it goes to the nine to one
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 28: one call. The defenses probably only argument is that these
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 28: are witnesses who identified him, not from the shooting. They
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 28: weren't there that night, so they can't say I saw
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 28: him do the shoe. They just want to exclude it
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 28: because he's at the McDonald's. The problem is they get
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 28: to the McDonald's and it turns out.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: To be him. Speaking of getting to the McDonald's. The
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: defense is arguing that while he wasn't really under arrest,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: he was kind of under arrest because so many police
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: started showing up and massing at the McDonald's. They were concerned,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: if this is Luigi Mangioni, the healthcare assassin, he's probably armed.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he was. He was armed.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: with him, so they were right. Now. What the defense
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: is arguing is that having multipolice multiple police officers show
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: up is tantamount equal to arresting him. Why do we
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: care because police engage in a conversation with him to
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: identify him, and he spilled a lot of information in
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: that conversation. The state says it was before his arrest.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Why does it matter, because a statement taken while you
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: are in custody without miranda will be suppressed. So they
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: want the judge to believe that because several police officers
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: showed up at McDonald's, that Mangioni was effectively under arrest
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: in any statements he made pre miranda should be suppressed.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: That's not going to happen. When I walk into let's
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: just pretend a Chipotle and all the Atlantic PD are
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: in there getting a salad, I don't feel like I'm
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: under arrest. Think about it.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Listen, Manjoni stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: Manjoni sits to eat breakfast. At nine oh three. Eleven
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: minutes later, the nine one one call is made. Nine
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: twenty eight two police officers show up and begin talking
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: to Mangoni. The restaurant slowly begins to fill with police
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: until nine forty two, when at least eight officers are
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: visible on the recording. The defense claims packing the place
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: with police amounts to unlawfuled attention prior to Mangonie's rest.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Agnifolo argues police surrounding Mangoni and the McDonald's tantamount to
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: illegally detaining the alleged killer. Agnifilo also takes exception with
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: the way officers treated Mangoni's backpack during the arrest, claiming
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: it was warrantlessly searched on the scene.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: In other words, they looked in his backpack. Cheryl McCollum
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: joining me. She is not only a crime scene investigator
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: is also the star of a hit podcast which I
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: actually put on a loop sometimes, Cheryl McCollum Zone seven.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, has it ever dawned on you when you
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: go into McDonald's for a cup of coffee, that you're
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: arresting somebody, that you're a mere presence equals an arrest,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: Because that's what they're arguing and what they're trying to do, Cheryl,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: is get out from under what Mangioni said to police
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: pre Miranda and them finding evidence in his backpack.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 15: I think the body cam is going to be so
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 15: critical here because it's going to show all of his actions.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 15: It's going to, you know, show the world that he
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 15: stood up and thought he was under arrest. Only a
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 15: guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 15: doing is there basically, look, you use manure to make
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 15: something grow, right, So they are planting and cultivating and
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 15: trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 15: he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest and
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 15: now he can't use anything, and it's just bs.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: While this legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Manzioni's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 17: He's a young man, and he is being treated like
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 17: a human pingpong ball between two warring jurisdictions here, and
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 17: they are literally treating him like he is like like
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 17: some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spec
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 17: He was on display for everyone to see in the
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 17: biggest staged purp walk I've ever seen in my career.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 17: There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 17: have these big assault rifles that frankly I had no
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 17: idea it was in their arsenal.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: And to have all of these these the.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 17: Press there, the media there, It was like perfectly choreographed.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 17: And what was the new York City mayor doing at
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 17: this press conference.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 21: He is a walking, talking contradiction.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 15: He supposedly is again this wealthy ceo is, yet he
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 15: comes for money.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: This is a guy living in a high rise in
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Honolulu waking up to the beach every morning. Did she
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: wake up to a BC this morning? Be I sure
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: did not. The Luigi Mangioni defense is fighting tooth and
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: nail to keep out what happened in that McDonald's, And
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: as Cheryl McCombs pointed out, that body cam is going
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: to be so significant because it doesn't matter what the
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: state says. It doesn't matter what the defense says or
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: how much Luigi Mangioni claims he's the victim. What matters
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: is what really happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: to get the nine on one call suppressed, that's not happening.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: But what happened in the McDonald's.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: Is the state going to lose valuable evidence on a
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: legal technicality? Why is it they want that backpack suppressed?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Straight out to investigator at large for dailymail dot Com,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: kill Lebrandley, What was in the backpack?
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 18: Nancy? There was a three D printed gun. It's a handgun,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 18: which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 18: There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it, and
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 18: then he also had a knife on him, which was
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 18: discovered about twenty minutes later, so he was armed and
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 18: at that point he was considered very dangerous.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, what did you say? Was written in
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: Maggione's spiral notebook that was in his backpack.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 18: That he wanted any use the word whack the healthcare
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 18: CEO whack meaning kill her destroy no.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Wonder they want. It's suppressed to Dave mac crime Stori's
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter, Tell me about the three D gun sometimes
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: called a ghost gun.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 24: Well, Nancy, you know we've been we have not been
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 24: given the very specifics of what type of gun. We
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 24: know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 24: name of it. Three D printed firearms take a massive
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 24: amount of time and filament, far more than any other.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 24: Deliberator is the most common and it's the easiest one
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 24: to print. It takes the shortest amount of time. Deliberator
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 24: takes thirty hours of constant printing with non stop printing.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 24: Nancy thirty hours to print. The easiest of all the pistols.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun is
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: made on a three D printer.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: Tom, it's unserialized.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: That's why they're so popular amongst criminals. You think, Grandpa,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: this is long gun, his shotgun under the bed. You
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: think it's a three D printed gun. No, it's got
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: a serial number. Why is it so serious that a
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: ghost gun is un serialized.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 25: Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 25: do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 25: And that is why so many criminals and Luigi Maggioni
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 25: of course went to the lengths that he did to
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 25: make that gun because that is the predetermined and premeditation
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 25: of it. Already, he's already thinking ahead of that gun
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 25: not being traced to him, and that is part of
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 25: this as well.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: Tom Smith, You're exactly correct too. Justph Scott Morgan let
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: death scenes and he's a star of him podcast Body
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: Bags of Joe Scott Morgan Joe Scott. What is a
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: suppressor or commonly known as a silencer.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 26: Yeah, stay away from the term silencer, because no weapon
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 26: is silenced, it is suppressed. That means that the crack
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 26: of the sound you're talking about a perhaps supersonic round,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 26: it's traveling, you know, past the speed of sounds. So
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 26: what you want to do is reduce that sound that's
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 26: put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 26: I'm glad that you have that image. You take a
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 26: close look at that weapon there. The end of that
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 26: muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is is that
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 26: it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 26: is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 26: It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 26: want to knock down the sound. So it's not going
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 26: to draw attention to you when you fired this thing.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 26: Because let's just say that it is a non suppressed weapon.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 26: This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 26: in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 26: a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 26: like it's portrayed in movies. Okay, but it will reduce
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 26: the sound, it doesn't completely eliminate it, and the purpose
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 26: of this is so that you're not going to draw
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 26: attention to anyone. It does reduce, say, some of the
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 26: capabilities of the weapon as far as the effectiveness of
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 26: it at a greater range, but this is not a
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 26: close range. As a matter of fact, if we were
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 26: to look at the body here, it would be classified
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 26: as indeterminate because you're not going to have any kind
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 26: of sut deposition gun unperned gunpowder. It will have fallen
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 26: away by that time. But this is not too distant
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 26: of a shot. You'll still have that same muzzle velocity
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 26: striking into Bron Thompson's body. It's effectively lethal.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: Joining me now, the star of Zone seven podcasts, Cheryl McCollum,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: is with us, Cheryl who has un serialized guns and silencers.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 15: Criminals and Nancy. There's another thing. Even though this is
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 15: a three D printed weapon, it's still going to lead
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 15: marking on capons and they're going to be able to
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 15: be determined that this weapon fired the bullets that murdered
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 15: Brian Thompson. So forensically it's not going to get you
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 15: out of trouble. They may not can trace it to
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 15: a manufacturer, to a buy that they can absolutely determine
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 15: that that bullet was fired by that weapon.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, you're so right, and Tom Smith, this is
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: like a fish in water for you. Every day you
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: were getting off the streets of Manhattan guns to match
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: with bullets, bullets that were literally lug out of victims' bodies.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: And Cheryl said it right. A bullet hurls down the
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: barrel of a gun, that gun may look like all
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: the other guns in the gun store showcase, but it's
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: not because inside the barrel, the metal has cooled in
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: a certain way and it leaves ridges and imperfections on
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: the inside of the barrel, and as that bullet shoots
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: down the barrel, it is forever marked by those imperfections.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: So when you take the murder weapon to the crime
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: lab and you shoot a bullet through the murder weapon,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: and you take the known bullet dug out of the
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: victim and you put it under a microscope next to
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: the one you just shot, it's like a fingerprint. No
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: other gun, be it a three D printed gun, a
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: Grandma's Bessie out from under her her mattress. You can
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: track and identify like a fingerprint, that bullet came from
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: that gun. Isn't that true?
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 25: And that's the best way to say it. It's it's
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 25: the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 25: the twist marks and all of that is what you
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 25: match up. And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 25: you know, to anyone else. It is strictly to that
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 25: weapon that you will match up the weapon, take the
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 25: round taken out of the victim and match it up.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 25: And that is damaging when it comes to court.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: fighting to the death in court to keep that jury
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: from every knowing of a ballistics match that his three
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: day pritty gun is the murder weapon. Listen to Alvin Bragg,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: the Manhattan District Attorney, for.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 30: Nearly an hour, we alleged the defendant waited in the
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 30: area near the Hilton Hotel waiting for mister Thompson to appear.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 30: From six thirty eight am to six forty four am.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 30: The defendant stood across from the entrance of the hotel
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 30: on West fifty fourth Street when he saw mister Thompson,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 30: he crossed the street and approached him from behind.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: Calib Brantley Daily Mail.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: The defense for Luigi Mangioni is also trying to suppress
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: statements he allegedly made to his guards. He had special
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: guards behind bars, so nothing would happen to him like
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: it did to Epstein. So let's first talk about Thomas Rivers,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: the former British infantryman who is minding Mangioni.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: What did Manngioni allegedly say to Rivers?
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Nancy.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 18: Luigi was held for ten days in Pennsylvania, and he
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 18: had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 18: compared to the Unibomber also said that mainstream media was
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 18: more focused on crime, and that when you looked at
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 18: social media, they were really more focused about the healthcare industry, which,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 18: according to this officer, is what Luigi said.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: This was really about Wow.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: Sounds like a confession to me. Sky lazarro Oopsie.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 28: Nancy, I agree and disagree. Here's the problem. They put
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 28: these guys in a situation like that in solitary where
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 28: they can't talk to anybody else. And the other thing
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 28: is that we know these officers didn't document any of this.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 28: They're supposed to be taking notes seven times an hour
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 28: about what he's doing and his well being, and they
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 28: don't write down anything like he just made.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: An admission, Skylasaura, did you say it's a problem he's
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: being held in solitary. You know who else is in solitary,
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: Brian Thompson, except his is a casket. So you're telling
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: me again, I can't believe you're buying into this, Sky Lazara,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: that he's the one is being torment You know what else?
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: He told Rivers that Rivers should really read Doors a
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: Perception by Aldus Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did not
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: read the book. But there is another guard that he
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in. Listen.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: Officer Matt Henry wasn't chatty with the alleged killer. That
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't stop Man Johnny from telling Henry he was caught
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: with a three D printed firearm, the weapon used to
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: murder CEO Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Agnifilo challenges Henry, saying,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: so he just blurted out to you that he had
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: a three D printed pistol.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: Henry Drily replies, yes too, Doctor Angela Arnold joining us.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: She's a renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. At
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: Angela Arnold dot com forim Professor Psychiatry. It goes on
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: and on. Former medical director at the Psychiatricyanklin at Grady,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: which never has a lack of business. I found a
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: lot of witnesses and victims at Grady Hospital, Doctor angel Arnold.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Why is this so hard? I've had a jury's not
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: going to have a hard time believing this that Luigi Mangioni,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: who has had a lifetime of entitlement, would blab to
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: his guards why they're his new friends. They would never
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: betray him, right.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 22: Yeah, oh sure.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 31: And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from some sort
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 31: of personality disorder in which he thinks about himself an
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 31: awful lot. So he really doesn't He may not see
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 31: that he's done anything wrong, and he probably hasn't suffered
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 31: any consequences for any of his actions in the past,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 31: and so that would make him more likely to almost
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 31: be bragging about what he's done and to let other
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 31: people know what he's done. This is typical for his
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 31: behavior in all likelihood throughout his existence.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: Tom Smith joining me former NYPD detective thirty years now
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: star co hosts of gold Shields podcast, Tom, What is
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: wrong with rich people? Do they think they can just
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: get away with everything? Anything and everything they can confess
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: they can stay. Yeah, they caught me with the three
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: D printed gun, which is the murder weapon. What is
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: wrong with them? Have you noticed the same sense of
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: entitlement sometimes does them in because they think they can
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: buy off everybody, that everybody wants to.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: Be their friend, but these two guards do not want
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: to be his friend.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 25: Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You know,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 25: they've gotten what they want, did they need to pay
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 25: for it? Or the power that they have has influenced
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 25: someone's decision into what they're getting or what they're doing,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 25: And they just think that holds true for every aspect
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 25: of their life, including killing someone. I mean, that's how
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 25: deranged they are when it comes to the entitlement that
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 25: they believe they are are owed when it comes to
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 25: murder or killing a bride. We did that show. You know,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 25: it's just constant and it just keeps coming up, and
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 25: it's absolutely disgusting.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: Tom. I want you to look at a picture if
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: I can get the controller and to put it up
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: for me dig through those files. I want to see
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: the picture of allegedly Mangiani, who's presumed innocent, holding up
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: the three D with the silencer on it, pointing directly
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: at Brian Thompson's back. According to Belie, he waited an
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: hour for just the right moment. Well tonight, he's celebrating
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: his twenty eighth birthday behind bars. Oh no, Mommy and
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: Daddy not there to take pictures. If you're blowing out
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: your candles, Luigi, I guess you'll just have to keep
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: warm with that one point five million dollars you've stockpiled
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: from donors. Who are these people? We wait as justice
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: unfolds Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off good night,