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Murder In Moscow: Where Was Kaylee Living At The Time Of The Murders? · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. There's
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: been some confusion about who was living at the house
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: at the time of these murders and if Kaylee was
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: actually even a resident at the time. And in fact,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: she wasn't. She had moved out of this house and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: she was living with her mom, staying with her parents
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and came back to town to show Madison her new car.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: So that's why she was back in Moscow on the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: date when these murders took place. But there was some
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: question about if she had lived there, if she had
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: moved out recently, and what the deal was. So I
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: thought in this episode, we'd clear that up real quick,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and we'd hear from her parents about what she was
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: doing in Moscow when these murders took place. So let's
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: get into this article from NBC News, and let's get
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: caught up. Headline, parents of murdered Idaho student Kaylee Gonsalves
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: says she was preparing to move to Texas before slayings.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves had lined up a job with an IT
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: firm in Austin and recently moved out of the house
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  Speaker 1: where she was killed. This article was authored by Daniela Silva.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: The parents of a University of Idaho student who was
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: killed along with three others said she had recently moved
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  Speaker 1: from the house where the slayings took place in November,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: but had gone back to show her close friend her
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: new car and attend a nearby party. And we had
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: heard this early on in the case. But then we
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: also heard that there was another roommate who lived there
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: who wasn't on the lease. So I think that's where
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: some of the confusion comes from about how many people
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: were living in the house. And if Kaylee was living there,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: actually physically living there at the time of these murders.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: And it makes more sense why she would be in
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Madison's bed if she doesn't have her own bed there
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: at this point. And she had moved out already. She
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: was living back with her parents. so she would be
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: staying in bed with Madison. That just makes sense. Christy
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: and Steve Gonsalves told Dateline that their daughter, 21-year-old Kaylee Gonsalves,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: was due to graduate from college early and had lined
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: up a job with an IT firm in Austin, Texas.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: And I think that's why this story hits a little
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: bit different for a lot of people. How many of
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: us have been in the same position, getting ready to
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: get out of college, start your life, Jump into whatever
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: career you had chosen to jump into. And you were
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  Speaker 1: excited about where things were going. And that's where Kaylee
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: was at this point. And according to the authorities, Brian
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Koberger snatched that from her and her family. But that's
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: why so many people relate. Whether you're a parent sending
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: your kid off to school or your kid's already off
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: at college. And then of course, there's those of us
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: who relate because we went to college ourselves and we
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: were these kids basically. So whenever you can relate to
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: something almost on a personal level, then of course, it's
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: going to hit you a lot different than say, if
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: you never went to college or you don't have a
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: kid who is college age. So I think that's where
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of the interest in this case is and
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: the morbid fascination at this point, people want to see
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: some conclusion. And they want to see somebody convicted. And
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: as of now, that person, according to the authorities, is
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger. Now, I say according to the authorities because
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: we haven't seen all the evidence yet, right? We don't
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: know for sure. But what we have seen is pretty
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: damn strong. And it certainly looks like Brian Koberger is
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: going to have a lot of explaining to do. Kaylee
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  Speaker 1: Gonsalves had just moved out of the house. She shared
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: with her longtime best friend, Madison Maddy-Mogan. These girls were
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  Speaker 1: best friends in sixth grade, like inseparable, Christy Goncalves said.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: The two had lived together and were true, ultimate best friends,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: she said. Maddie had been a huge part of our life,
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  Speaker 1: and we had heard a lot of that when this
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  Speaker 1: case was first breaking. about how close Maddie and Kaylee were.
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  Speaker 1: But we didn't have a lot of context back then. Now,
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  Speaker 1: using hindsight to guide us, it certainly looks like that
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  Speaker 1: one of them, Madison or Kaylee, was the target here.
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  Speaker 1: And for me anyway, one of the clinchers there is
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: that the knife sheath was found in the bed with them.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: So it certainly leads me to believe that one of
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: them was the target. Which one? I'm not sure. But
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  Speaker 1: I've had a sneaking suspicion since we started talking about
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  Speaker 1: this that the Mad Greek, the restaurant where Madison worked,
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  Speaker 1: had something to do with it. Seems like a likely
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  Speaker 1: place where they could cross paths. Now, we have not
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  Speaker 1: heard about any connections between Brian Koberger and these girls.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Nothing that can be, you know, looked at as far
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  Speaker 1: as given to us by an official source. We know
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  Speaker 1: that Koberger certainly was following them. On social media, at
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: least on Instagram, we saw that when this was all
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  Speaker 1: first breaking, we saw those screenshots and stuff like that.
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  Speaker 1: But besides that, there are no ties, right? No ties
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  Speaker 1: that bind that you can point at and say, oh,
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  Speaker 1: here it is. Here's the connection. So for me, it
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: has to be something like they passed each other in
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: the night, if you will. Ran into each other at
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  Speaker 1: a grocery store. He saw them or saw her and,
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  Speaker 1: you know, took a liking to him. started following them around,
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  Speaker 1: whatever it was. But there is no tangible link that
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  Speaker 1: we can point to right now that would have them
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  Speaker 1: ever being in each other's atmosphere. So that's certainly one
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  Speaker 1: of those questions that everybody wants answered. How did they
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  Speaker 1: come across each other? And how did they ever even
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  Speaker 1: cross paths? Because it looks like these girls had no
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  Speaker 1: idea who Brian Koberger was. Kaylee Gonsalves, who had just
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: bought a new Range Rover, told her parents she wanted
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  Speaker 1: to go back to Moscow, Idaho to show it to
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  Speaker 1: Maddie and to attend a nearby party together. That was
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the last time that I saw Kaylee, her mother said.
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  Speaker 1: On November 13th, Kaylee, Mogan, and two others were stabbed
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  Speaker 1: to death inside a home in the largely rural college
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  Speaker 1: community of Moscow. Can you imagine sending your daughter out
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  Speaker 1: like countless other nights before? to go hang out with
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  Speaker 1: their best friend, take the ride down to Moscow, go
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  Speaker 1: hang out with their best friend, go to a party,
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  Speaker 1: and then to get this news? I can't even begin
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  Speaker 1: to understand or try to wrap my mind around the
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  Speaker 1: pain and suffering that these families have went through. Also
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: killed in the attack were Ethan Chapin and Zanna Kernodel.
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  Speaker 1: Police arrested a suspect, Brian Christopher Koberger, 28 years old,
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  Speaker 1: about seven weeks after the killings. He has been charged
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: with four counts of first-degree murder and felony burglary. And
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  Speaker 1: you know something crazy? There are actually forums on Reddit
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  Speaker 1: and elsewhere talking about how Brian Kohlberger is being set up,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: how he's being framed. It is absolutely bananas city. And
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: we're going to go through some of those posts on
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Reddit in an episode coming up. And I'll tell you what,
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  Speaker 1: I guarantee you when you hear some of these posts,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: It's going to make your head spin that people can
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  Speaker 1: actually have that sort of opinion, considering how strong this
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: probable cause affidavit was. Now, of course, that doesn't make
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: him guilty, right? Because it was a strong probable cause affidavit.
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  Speaker 1: But when you look at the evidence in its totality,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know how anyone can be running around and
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  Speaker 1: talking about, oh, he was framed. And that's certainly one
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  Speaker 1: of the narratives that people are starting to pitch. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: I have empathy for this guy. I mean, it's just
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: insane to me. Meanwhile, those very same people have a
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: whole lot to say about the victim's families here. So
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: try and make heads or tails of that. Authorities tied
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger to the case through male DNA left on a
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  Speaker 1: knife sheath at the scene, as well as by tracking
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  Speaker 1: down Kohlberger's car and his cell phone records. Koberger, who
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  Speaker 1: is from Pennsylvania, was a doctoral student at nearby Washington
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  Speaker 1: State University studying in the criminal justice and criminology department.
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  Speaker 1: And for all that studying, dude is dumb as hell.
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  Speaker 1: Police have not disclosed a motive for the killings or
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  Speaker 1: said if or how Koberger may have known the victims.
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  Speaker 1: One former criminal justice classmate of Koberger's at DeSalas University,
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  Speaker 1: where he graduated with a bachelor's degree in psychology and
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: and a master of arts in criminal justice, said she
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  Speaker 1: was shocked when she heard the news of Koberger's arrest.
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  Speaker 1: It definitely took me by shock, the classmate, Madison told Dateline. Madison,
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  Speaker 1: who requested her last name not be used out of
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  Speaker 1: fear of harassment, said she remembered the detailed responses Koberger
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  Speaker 1: gave in the criminology course they took together in 2018.
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  Speaker 1: Whenever he raised his hand, he definitely took it upon
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  Speaker 1: himself to answer the question, but yet then give every
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: single detail that he possibly could to help further his point,
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  Speaker 1: she said. It was always like, oh, Brian's answering this question.
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  Speaker 1: This is going to take up the whole entire class. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: so he's one of them guys. You know, the guy
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  Speaker 1: in the meeting who raises his hand and has some
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  Speaker 1: kind of dumbass question when all you want to do
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  Speaker 1: is get out of the meeting and leave work. He
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: was one of those guys, huh? She also thought that
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  Speaker 1: coberger would stare at her and her friends he would
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: stare at us he definitely had very prominent eyes she
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: said i would always catch him staring at us he
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't ever really try to talk to us sounds typical
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  Speaker 1: for somebody like this we're starting to get that profile
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  Speaker 1: built hearing about how he was bullied by the popular
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  Speaker 1: girls in school, you know, the whole entire routine. And
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: then there'll be the whole entire deal of, well, he
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  Speaker 1: was bullied, that's why he did what he did, and
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  Speaker 1: I'm so tired of hearing that kind of bullshit. Breaking news,
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  Speaker 1: if he is convicted of this, I don't care about
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  Speaker 1: any of those circumstances, not one of them. I don't
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  Speaker 1: care about any of it. I have no empathy for
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  Speaker 1: somebody who's gonna skulk around in the dark like a
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  Speaker 1: straight-up coward, Hayden Stinchfield, a junior in the criminal justice
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  Speaker 1: program at Washington State, had Koberger as a teaching assistant.
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  Speaker 1: He wasn't a super approachable guy, Stinchfield told Dateline, adding
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: that Koberger was initially a harsh grader. But that abruptly changed.
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  Speaker 1: At a certain point, He started just giving everyone 100s
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  Speaker 1: and like super high marks, he said. By the end
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  Speaker 1: of the semester, no one was thinking about the little
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: deductions from earlier. So his behavior started to change. We
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  Speaker 1: have heard this several different times in several different ways. Now, obviously,
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  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean anything on its own. But we can't
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: look at anything in a vacuum anymore, right? Everything has
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: to be looked at in the totality of what the
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: evidence says. So all of these little things that might
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: seem mundane are actually crucial building blocks for this investigation
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: to move forward. Stinchfield said that looking back, he believes
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the change in Koberger's grading habits lines up pretty well
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: with the time of the killings. Steve and Christy Gonsalves
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: said they take some comfort in thinking and hoping that
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: their daughter may have helped solve her own death by
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: snatching away the knife sheath eventually used to tie Koberger
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: to the killings. I hope that maybe, in a struggle,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: she pulled it off him, Christy Gonsalves said. It's a
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: checkmate-type moment, Steve Gonsalves added. The two said that they
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: hope for a conviction and the death penalty. He chose
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: over and over to end people's lives, and that has
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to be accounted for, Steve Gonsalves said. And I don't disagree.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: If and when he is convicted, after he has his trial,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think it should even be a question. It
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: should be the death penalty, without a doubt. All right, folks,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. If you'd
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: like to contact me, you can do that at BobbyCapucci
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can also find
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: I discussed can be found in the description box.