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Creating Better Business Books (with Honorée Corder & Alice Sullivan) · The Daily Writer

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: You've heard it a million times.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Writing a book can help your business.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: But doesn't that mean you have to spend years writing a massive book that contains all your wisdom and knowledge?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Not according to my guest today.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hello my friend.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is Kent Sanders from Inkwell Ghostwriting.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to this episode of the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is the show that helps you grow your business, amplify your authority, and increase your impact through the power of writing.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me today.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to bring you this conversation with two amazing guests, Honore Corter and Alice Sullivan.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Honore was a guest back on episode 152, and Alice was my guest actually on the last episode.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: So Alice is kind of pulling double duty here this month, being a guest on two episodes, which is pretty cool.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Honore is the self-publishing expert, and she's the author of dozens of books, including You Must Write a Book, The Prosperous Writers Book Series, Vision 2 Reality, Business Dating, The Successful Single Mom Book Series, and many, many more.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Honore is also Hal Elrod's business partner.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: He is the author of The Miracle Morning, which is a fantastic book, and together they have published over a dozen titles in the Miracle Morning series.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Honore coaches business professionals, writers, and aspiring nonfiction authors who want to publish their books to bestseller status, create a platform, and develop multiple streams of income.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Alice is a successful ghostwriter with multiple books that have landed on the New York Times bestseller list, among many other places, of course.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now you'll never know which books she wrote, though, because that would obviously break the sacred code of ghostwriting, but just take my word for it, she's a pro at the top of her field.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to being a ghostwriter, Alice is also a developmental book editor and author coach.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've asked Honore and Alice on the show today to talk about their amazing new venture, which is called Better Business Books.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: You'll learn how traditional business books can be improved, why they are the perfect dynamic duo to offer this really unique service, the Better Business Books Process, why a book is a fantastic investment, and the importance of owning your intellectual property.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of stuff going on in this episode.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to learn a ton, and you're also going to be inspired to take action and to maybe consider hiring them for your next business book.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let's get to the conversation with Honoree and Alice.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm grateful for you both being on the show today.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is both of your second appearances on the show.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you are now in the Two Appearance Club.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, thanks.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's no reward for being on the show twice, by the way.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I kind of built that up like it was some big special thing.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, do we get a pen or a bracelet?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: What's happening?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: There should be a prize.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so grateful for both of you for a lot of different reasons, but particularly right now for being a guest on the show.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to talk about better business books.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is a new venture that you both have come together and are offering to people.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And this is such a fascinating topic because it involves a lot of different aspects of business, but also books, writing and publishing and so forth.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, though, can you talk a little bit about with your new venture?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: What problem are you addressing in the business book community?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're solving a problem in a really interesting way.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: But what are the typical frustrations or the problems that people have with business books that you're addressing?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say, you know, as both a writer and a reader, and someone who consumes a lot of business books, there have been more than a few times where I've picked up a business book at the bookstore and gotten maybe halfway through and realized they could have written this whole book in about 80 pages.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: But then why does it have to be 280 pages or why is it 320 pages?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because you find they're just repeating the same content.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, the reason they did that is because they had probably a publisher's contract that said you have to write this many pages, but sometimes, you know, fewer words uh gets the point across a lot better.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I find anyway.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Fascinating.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, in many ways, this is the content in a book and the length of the content is driven not by the content itself, it's really driven by the price that the publisher wants to put on the book.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that basically what it really amounts to?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would agree with that.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: I would agree with that.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I found sometimes I, and I won't name the author, but recently within the last month or so, I was reading a third book by an author that I greatly admire.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And my first thought about two-thirds of the way through the book was, oh, now I understand why we're repeating this content.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is the third book.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: This was a three-book deal.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: So the first book was great, the second book was great, and the third book felt gratuitous to me.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: It felt like the author was like, oh, I gotta come up with something.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta write, I gotta write something, and it has to be 200 pages.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that just felt unfortunate to me, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: That there was there were external factors that determined the content and the length.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that the the content wasn't important or that it didn't need to be addressed by the author.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't need to be, it needed to be addressed by the author in a book.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: It did not need to be 200 pages.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And because I was listening to it, I just kept waiting.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just kept thinking, surely we're gonna, right?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was like 1.5x, 1.8x, 2.0x, and finally I just maxed it out.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, audible.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna make sure that there's nothing else needy or interesting in here.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And gosh darn it, I was bummed that I spent seven hours listening to this one concept for what would be 200 pages.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So the problem really comes down to well, I guess it's another BBB.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bloated business books, and you're wanting to make better business books.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's not really a pleasant image, the whole bloated thing.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: But really that that is what it amounts to, isn't it?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I think we want to honor the author's message and also honor the audience's time.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, while of course there are some business books that that do deserve or uh, you know, can fill that space and it all feels necessary, that's not always the case.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, the reader can tell.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: The reader can tell when you are just filling the pages because you feel as though either you have to or you were contracted to.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a little, it's a little dishonest, I think, in a way.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's it's a quick way to lose your readership, you know, if they're thinking, gosh, like I'm 180 pages into it now, and you've said the same thing eight times, you know.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we wanted to create uh a way for people to get their message out in an efficient manner and you know, to hit all your hit all your main points, share your stories, share your message, but do so in a way that is, you know, easy to consume and impactful, and a quick read.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you can, you know, read it on a plane or you know, read it in an hour or two and and still use it as a reference book.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it solves a couple.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, go ahead.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say I think it solves a couple of uh problems or and creates opportunity.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: It solves the problem of how does the business person become an author when they're busy, right?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: By delegating it to a team of people who know what they're doing.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it takes the time out of it within six months they're an author, as opposed to within a year and a half or two years, they get to keep the control, the creative control, the content control.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then it also helps to establish them as the authority, as the expert, because they become an author, right, by having this book.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And also then the reader wins because the reader gets the meat.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's no extra fluff thrown in.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if you have this problem, I'm solving this problem.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm telling you my path to financial freedom, or how to invest in real estate, or what do you need in an estate plan, or right, or how to be a better parent.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: All of that can be done in this short book, which I think it's a win-win-win all the way around.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we were trying to do was to create something that was um good in every way and better than what was out there.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, both of you have vast experience in the world of books and book marketing and book writing and so forth.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just off the top of your heads, what percentage of business books would you say are too long?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: God, that's hard.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's hard.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's not really a fair question, but I I'd throw it out there anyway.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I would say maybe close to half.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would say I would go half.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe more, you know?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a pretty widespread problem, honestly.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for everybody who's listening now, if we were to really search our hearts, we would all say the same thing.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Probably I'm looking at a ton of books right here in my home office, and uh a lot of them could be trimmed down for sure.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you distinguish between a a book idea or concept that is let's say a 50 or 60,000-word nonfiction business book and one that only needs 15,000 words?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you decide what books need to be longer and what books can be trimmed down to, let's say, 15,000 words or so?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I would say to me it depends on the overall story arc.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, if somebody wants to write a memoir, you probably you could condense a memoir into 15,000 words, but it would feel so brief.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there would be huge gaps in the story and it would just be a tease for the reader.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to write a business book that is fully comprehensive for your subject matter, that's going to be a longer book.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to write a business book that differentiates you as the expert from the other folks in your field who are saying that they are the expert, the author always wins that uh contest, right?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and in a shorter book, you can tackle one area of your expertise.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: We can say in 15,000 words, we can completely cover this area enough to differentiate you as the expert, enough to give the reader meat, and enough for them to understand whether they want to work with you.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: What I find so fascinating about this uh Better Business Books concept is that each of you brings something very different but very necessary to this equation.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can you both talk about your unique qualifications to to help people create short business books that really make a big impact?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um sure.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the first part of the process uh is the the interview process and the writing, which is what I handle.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I've I've worked in the publishing industry for 19 years now.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've written 41 books and I've edited a ridiculous amount, I think right over 1400.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got that down, right?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: But the the first piece of it is doing the interview with the client and the outline and then the writing process, which for the for the author, this is going to be their, I think their biggest investment of time is upfront with me so I can learn their full story and write it for them.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then really after that, you know, they can go off and do, you know, the 15 other things that they're working on while I am putting together their story.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm working with my strengths, and they are of course working on whatever else they need to.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's a very efficient way to get their to get their book finished.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then once I've completed the manuscript and they reviewed it, and we've gone back and forth maybe once or twice on revisions until it's um until it's really, really great, and they're very, very pleased with the subject matter and the and the manuscript, then Honore takes it from there and transforms it in a magical way into a complete book.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: As she does.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, as one would do.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so my expertise is in the five um stages of putting a book together.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: So before Alice actually gets to work with someone, I'm coming at them from, you know, what is this book gonna do for you?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: What's in it for you?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: What's your vision for this book?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: What do you want from this book?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: What do you want the reader to do from reading this book?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want them to hire you?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want them to engage your firm?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want them to, you know, what?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: What is it that you want them to do?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: What do you want the book to do for you?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: And while she's working with the client, I'm actually doing my magical badassery, right?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Kent, you know, there are about 487 things that go into making a book fulfill the vision that the author has for it.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so while the book is being written, I'm doing the research.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working with the graphic designer, I'm coming up with the book cover concept or concepts so that the author is happy with it.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working on the custom interior piece to make it look and read amazing.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working with the rest of the production team to make sure that when the book is finished, it really is that moment that we have experienced, all of us as authors, when our book is first put in our hands and we have that moment of, oh my gosh, I'm really an author, this is it, I'm here.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's a magical moment, it's a big deal day, it's a big deal moment for the author.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: And what accompanies that is how are they going to connect readers to the book and readers to the book to their business.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that's marketing.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's a couple of different uh ways of marketing, and all of that comes with the process.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm doing all that research, I'm looking for data and information, and I'm really digging into how do they develop business, how do they connect to their clients and their customers, and how can I help them use their book to do that most efficiently and effectively.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's my favorite thing.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: That is really a new concept for a lot of people who want to write a book, where you're basically deconstructing what you want to accomplish, or not deconstructing, you're reverse engineering the process, thinking, what are my business goals, what do I want to accomplish in my business, and then crafting a book so that it supports those goals rather than just saying, hey, I want to write a book, I'm gonna put it out there, and then I'm disappointed that it didn't do anything.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll go wrong.
• 14:49
  unknown: Right.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen the I've seen some figures say that, you know, if you self-publish a book and you have no plan whatsoever, you're gonna be lucky to sell 500 copies.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Lucky to sell 500 copies.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So lucky.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they'll just you'll have boxes that are in your spare bedroom that just stack up and stack up, and you can give them away, you know, birthdays and such.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the the smart way to go about it is to look at the end goal and start there so that you know you know what you're doing and you know who you're doing it for, and you know how they want to receive your wisdom.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's the smart way.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, Alice said a book in a bedroom and me giving my books for my birthdays is not effective.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: A book at rest is money at rest.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: A book in motion is money in motion.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the goal of the Better Business Book is to have money in motion to our clients of very high ROI, and one that is not confusing, one that is not nebulous, a plan that is concrete and actionable and one that they're comfortable with, getting their books in the hands of people that can get it in the hands of people, rinse and repeat.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: And soon they have established themselves as the expert by becoming an author, and their business is growing because that business is coming to them with a word I like to use automatically.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get into the details of this a little bit.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say I come to you and I want to write a business book.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know anything about writing, I just know that I want a book to help support my business goals.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of a time frame are we looking at with this kind of a shorter book?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it also is going to involve marketing and obviously the ghostwriting aspect.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of a general time frame are we looking at?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the total time frame is going to be about six months from start to finish.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Your time with me at the beginning is probably going to be four to six weeks between our initial interviews and then me writing all of the content.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe another week or two for the revisions, and then the manuscript is pretty much done.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then honore handles all the rest of it over the rest of the period of time.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: While simultaneous to the book being written, I'm doing that research that I mentioned before.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working with the graphic designer who is a creative, and creativity is not always on demand.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there is quite a bit of back and forth.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: What colors work, what style works, what font works, what background.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Are we using a picture of the author?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are we using an image?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what does the interior look like?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: How what how are we going to do the copywriting so that it sells?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And making sure that it is in concert with the contents of the book so it's fulfilling the promise.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then making sure that the book is published professionally and in the hands of the author by that day 180 or sooner.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Talk a little bit about it, about the professionally published book aspect of this, if you can, because that is really a critical difference.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you have a book that just doesn't look that great and it's obviously self-published.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: No slam on self-published authors because I'm one of those people.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And honoring, of course, you are as well, many times over.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: But when you have a book that looks good, the layout and the formatting is correct, you know, and all those things that go into it are great or are not great versus one that is great, what kind of a difference can that have on someone's business?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: When you are handed or given or see anything that is quality, you know it.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it gives you confidence, gives you confidence in the person who gave it to you or in who you're seeing.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: When someone shows up dressed up, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: When they're just head to toe and you just and they're full of confidence and um enthusiasm and energy, good energy, don't you feel better?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: I know I do.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: I know I feel better when I'm that way myself.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, conversely, when you run into someone, and I've I've had this happen, I'm sure you've all had this happen, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're living in the land of everyone's like, I don't have to get dressed today because we're all working from home, right?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: So if you run into someone and you're not your best, you're not perceived as your best.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same with your book.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: I know there are a lot of um experts out there that say, outline your book in a weekend, write it and publish it up on KDP.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when I have someone I talk to and they say, I just published my book on KDP, they don't actually realize, oh, it's still really published, like random house published on KDP too.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: They have to go through the same uh uh backend process that that self-published authors do, the same dashboard.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that they took the steps necessary to make it professionally published.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: So our job is to dot those I's and cross those T's and round those corners to make the book look and feel and read as though it were traditionally published without being traditionally published.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Our job is to, in essence, um do it so well that it is indistinguishable from traditional publishing, so that the professional is perceived as being the most professional that they can be.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: The book is showing up for them on their behalf in absentia for the author, right?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not the author showing up, it's the book showing up, and the book has to show up in the best possible way, or the client would be lost, the customer would be lost.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Very few people are going to overlook poor quality and hire you anyway.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I understand.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have a$10,000 custom suit from Armani and you flew to Italy and you got it done, but you just wrote your book in a weekend and throw it up on KDP, no problem.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: You get a pass.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: That does not happen.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have your professional game tight with everything that you do.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: When you hand someone your business card, it better not be, sorry, VistaPrint, it better not be a wiggly thin business card from VistaPrint if you're charging fees that where someone would say, gosh, I don't really understand why this is cheap and this is expensive.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: They're not congruent, they don't go together.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: It absolutely makes sense.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, that leads into my next question about the mindset of a business owner who would want to invest in this kind of a process.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll leave it to both of you whether or not if you want to get into pricing ranges and that kind of stuff, that's totally up to you.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is that this does cost something.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't just a cheap fly by night.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually I've never used the phrase fly by night on this podcast.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Fly by night.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's an unprofessional.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I just suddenly reverted into like a 1930s gangster or something, but anyways, it just is a voice in my head, I guess.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: But this is not a um a cheapo kind of a process, this is something that involves two professionals, a lot.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: your time, a lot of high quality.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: What is the mindset?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of a mindset does a business owner need to have in order to want to invest in a book where they see it as an investment that's going to make them money versus just an expense?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's two very different mindsets.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, you know, someone who values values their story, values their message, and seeks to partner with people who do things with excellence.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's providing it's providing a service at a very top level that allows them to do everything else they were going to do.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So they can they can make this happen in a very quick way at a very high level.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, become an author in six months.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think if they if they're a person who sees value and sees the long-term value, because at the end of the day, this is not just a book.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, of course of course we want them to to you know hire us to help them share their story but but we want them to do more than just this.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: The book becomes a doorway to other opportunities.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: They can coaching consulting um they can do more speaking engagements and they can raise their fees.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you know someone who is who is I think wealth minded who wants to have the long view for the next five 10 years and is looking for a way to build their platform and just create more opportunities for themselves that's the kind of person that we are looking to partner with.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: I love that yes and I if I could add to that also we are looking for someone who will look at their book as an asset.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: It is a an asset that is a that has a high potential for return on investment, a return on monetary investment, a return on time investment.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Our job, my job is is to help them to see the path to many streams of income from the book.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: As Alice mentioned a lot of people come to me and they say I am a professional and I do this one thing but I really like to become an author and I'd like to do courses and I'd like to do speaking.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And all experts have one thing in common they have a book and they're not quite sure how to get there or where to start or who to trust.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: And what we're offering is an optimized and maximized version of a book.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: We are not just a pay-to-play service where we just turn your manuscript into a book and send you on your way.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: There is a lot of forethought that goes into not only the contents of the book in in terms of the meat of the book, the message of the book but also in terms of what goes at the beginning of the book and what goes in the back of the book so you can connect with the reader in a more meaningful way so that they can, if they want to engage you as their professional, they can hire you as their coach, they can consult with you, they can bring you in as a speaker for their event, they can invest with you in some additional way.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then also the contents of the book can be monetized by turning them into different verticals, different streams of income.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: So taking that meat and saying okay so here is another way for you to consume this content.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Here's another way for you to engage me as the author and making sure that the book is optimized in all that way.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: So there are other opportunities for people to become authors to pay a service to handle that for them but none of those other services have our experience in the self-publishing side where those folks who are working on those books have monetized in the way that we have yes that there is still something magical about having a book you can have you can have all the social media followers you can have all kinds of other things that are indicators of success however however people would define that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: But so Honore I've got actually two or three of your books up here right above me.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I just happen to grab vision to reality and you look at this this is Honore's book called Vision to Reality by the way people can't see the podcast it's just audio.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you look through the book it looks great it's a quick read it's full of awesome information and there's just something magical about that and I think everybody in their business wants a little bit of magic or a lot of magic as it were yes yes and that book in particular was an accompaniment to coaching program that I have offered for many years.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: My tagline as a business coach is double your income and triple your time off and I do very little of that type of work very little and it's always from a previous client or by recommendation.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: But that book was meant to help someone understand the process of coaching with me without me having to take the time that they were paying me to explain to them what they were doing.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: So they would say coach why are we doing this and I'd say don't you want to just get the results do you want me to explain to you the overarching psychology and the process or do you just want to trust the process and I realized if I had a book that could accompany the program that that would be helpful.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: And when people read the book who were not working with me they said you should release this book.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: And what's interesting is that the book was no longer what I gave someone after they paid me.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: It became something that was a business generator for me.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was an original better business book.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a long book it's not quite as short as the better business books but it it does the job that a better business book does for an author.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's that magic in the business it's being able to say to someone when they ask you for a business card which by the way what you say to someone when you hand them your business card is hi.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Would you throw this away for me?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: When you hand them a book right I'm I'm having people throw my business cards away all over town all over the country when you hand someone your book even if they don't read it even if they're not interested in working with you you've impressed them because you're an author if they don't read it they're not going to throw it away who throws away a book right they're going to put it on their shelf they're going to find someone else to read it or they're going to donate the book the book is going to continue to live and to to spread your knowledge and your expertise with the world and with author copies from Amazon you know for for a smaller work they're going to be probably 250 or something like that.
• 28:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's a pretty great return for$2.50 to impress someone at that level and it it's just truly a magical thing.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes I don't I will say yes I do have a business card but I also have a book and I have one with me if you'd like it and it's it's fun every time to see the look come over someone's face who does not know me who does not know I'm an author when I say that and they'll say oh you're an author I met someone the other day you're an author that I love authors writers are amazing.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like yes yes we are right of becoming one so you have business cards you sent me a card of the day yes I do have business yes it's a it's an interesting shape.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I like this this like an elongated thing.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's actually my that's my business card that I put in correspondence.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have another business card that I use if I have run out of books or I don't have a book or someone just wants a business card.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: I have a suite of business cards Ken is what I'm saying.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I will say to someone I do have a business card but I also have a book would you like one?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and the interaction then expands the energy of the interaction expands.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: They are impressed and they become even more interested and they certainly aren't going to take my business card and put it in their pocket or put it in their handbag and then get to wherever they're going and then three months from now open it and go, who is that again?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where did I meet that person but if they have a book they will very often read the book or read the first couple of chapters of the book send me an email send me a note all of those things you mentioned a minute ago one of you mentioned the book as an asset and I think that's a really important concept can you talk about the difference between well one of the differences between traditional publishing and independent publishing is the fact that you own your intellectual property.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk about why that is important because people who are not in the book space that's not really on their radar screen this issue of intellectual property why is this important why is this an important issue for people who are building a business so I come from a traditional publishing background and while I will say most of the time there's not an issue with an author when they you know when they turn in the manuscript and then basically it becomes the property of the publishing company they they can do with it what they want.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: They can change the title they can change the contents um sometimes that creates some problems because the author either has a very strong pull to a cover design or a specific title or a specific story that's told in a certain way um and you do lose that because you're signing over your rights.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: When you sign that contract and you get your financial advance, whatever that is, you're in essence selling them your manuscript so they can do with it, you know, whatever they want to with it.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And usually most of the time the publishing house does honor your wishes but they have a whole team of you know marketing analysts who are going to basically pick the title and pick the cover design and and then it might be you know as Honore said 18 months to two years before the book comes out.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so that whole time you're just kind of sitting and waiting for the you know the edits to come back and whatnot and you you feel very disengaged from the process.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember when I was an in-house editor a large part of my job was sort of um you know soothing our our authors minds because they'd say you know I haven't heard back from marketing in in you know six weeks and I'm supposed to be doing this book tour and this and that and the other it's just a long process.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: It can be a very long process and it can be very frustrating when you are so um out of the loop with traditional publishing.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now of course that's not always the case but it is but it is a factor that some people some people just want to have they want to have their fingers in the process they want to have some control.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: They want to have a lot of control over the process and they want to know that whatever is that you know their vision that they're wanting to present is going to be honored in the end result.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that can be a really big factor between self-publishing and traditional that makes sense.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: They get to retain ownership and they can also then be um nimble and fluid with it as well I remember a friend of mine sold a book and can't great book title I don't want to say what it is great book title and um she hated the cover.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: She hated that the book was too long and there was nothing she could do.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: She couldn't do anything else with it.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: She couldn't offer a course she couldn't do a coaching program.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: She just couldn't do any consulting using that title all she could say was she was the author of this particular book but she couldn't say this is book title coaching program.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: She wasn't allowed to to to um expand it or multiply it in any way she was really stuck and it was a fantastic idea she never really had that second idea that was as good.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so she kept trying to to say I really want lightning to strike twice I really right I need something else because they have my book and they have my book for seven years.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I really have all these other ideas and every time I talk to them they say no we can't approve that oh you can't do that.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't it wasn't big time publishing either it wasn't one of the big five it was a smaller house but they still nevertheless wanted to retain their control over it.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I really felt for her and it wasn't till eight years later when she reached out and said okay I have the rights back but honestly now all the energy's gone I'm over it.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was the time for that has passed for me and I really could have done something with it.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it has so much negative energy on it I don't want to do it.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: When you engage in self-publishing when you do indie publishing independent publishing you then can change the title expand you can say gosh this small book that I put together really has teeth and it's really making a difference I want to do a second book.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do a bigger book I want to do a companion something or other and you have all of the creative freedom in the world to do that which is really fun.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of reasons to consider independent publishing for sure.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not that traditional publishing people are are bad people.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of times Oh not at all you know you know they they everybody wants to make good books uh that's whatever and everybody wants to make money yes but but when you when someone else owns that intellectual property they just by definition have a different set of priorities than you do with it and then of course that's going to produce some conflict so and we see this with the with the music industry really bad right now especially so there is a lot of a lot to be said for owning owning your stuff.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: So as we wind this down here I do have uh uh this is kind of a a very geeky question so I love independent publishing of course and I I love the process of the layout and the cover design and all that with a 1500 word book how does that work in terms of formatting uh and the number of pages that that would wind up being approximately would this be like 100 pages 120 pages what would that look like at the end?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be right around 110 pages including the optimization pieces that are specific to the author and what we add to the book we you you are geeky we love that because we are book people and what you have to have to have words on the spine with print on demand is at least 100 pages.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to have 100 pages.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: The book size then is a 4.2 by seven which is a small pocket size book incidentally my first book tall order the first version of my book um not the 10th anniversary edition which I expanded and made into a bigger size but that very first book that I published I published it specifically 4.2 by seven because that is the size that fits into a man's suit jacket pocket.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was networking as a business coach I would hand out my book when someone would say do you have a business card and I would say yes I do but I also have a book and when I would hand them a book which is now basically the size of the largest iPhone right they would be able to take that book and put it in their suit jacket pocket.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't have to carry it around and they didn't have a briefcase who carries a briefcase these days not very many people so they were able to put it in their pocket.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was very um intentionally designed by me to be that size and at the time I was using a third party printer because this was when the earth was cooling and we were all walking barefoot in snow uphill both ways back in the 2000s I was using a third party printer so they did not have the hundred page minimum my book was 77 pages but it did it checked all the boxes Honore was an author I could double my fees I could or could at least increase my fees 150% and it established me as an expert.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone was a business coach except I was the business coach with a book and it made a measurable difference in my business and I marketed with that book intentionally and purposefully and consistently and it made a huge difference in my business.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: My business has never been the same because of that book.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think there's the perception among many authors that they've got to have this big fat full length book when in reality I can't speak for anybody but for anyone else but as a reader I kind of breathe a little sigh of relief whenever I have a short book.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thankful that it's a short book when I have a big old honkin book I kind of go unless it's one I'm really excited about I kind of go you know I've got to read around to that when am I going to get around to that in a sense we're we're kind of doing readers a favor when we produce these short snappy get or done kind of books.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes I just read a book recently it took me an hour to read it and two hours to implement the strategies in the book and I've recommended it 50 times.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: I've recommended it on social media I've sent messages to people I've shared it in groups are you willing to say what it was oh sure um become a LinkedIn um sales machine or LinkedIn sales machine something like that and the book is self-published um I bought the ebook version it was$2.99 I it was recommended to me I read it in in about an hour less than an hour in an evening just kind of going through it like oh this makes sense and I could have dispensed with the why having a strong profile on LinkedIn is powerful because I understood that but I read the whole book so including the why you should do this why you should have a strong LinkedIn profile how to make your LinkedIn profile strong and then here's how to market on LinkedIn all of that in one book less than an hour to read and then the next morning I was so excited I whipped it open and I had an hour to work on my profile which I discovered was abysmal before this book makeover situation.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it solved a problem it helped me to solve a problem and capitalize on an opportunity and then there's the piece which is work on your LinkedIn in 30 minutes a day connect with people on LinkedIn in 30 minutes a day.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: So then there's that piece all of that within an hour if someone had given me the encyclopedia LinkedIn sales machine book I would still be meaning to read it but I wouldn't have read it I wouldn't have connected with the author I wouldn't have said thank you I wouldn't have written the review I wouldn't have recommended it a whole bunch of times and gotten him some more sales none of those things would have happened a shorter book also allows people to say gosh here's the other person I know that needs to do this here's the other person I know that needs to do this here's the other person I need to know that this is a quick book you're gonna be okay to read it you can put it at at the top of the T VR the to be read pile because it's so quick.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you want to make it easy for your reader to get in touch with you and to learn what you have to say and you know the the opposite is I you know I have a ton of books of course and and I'm almost ashamed to say but there's a lot of them that I've you know either been given or or purchased and they're they were just unnecessarily long and I haven't finished them.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have snacks all over the house you know I I I write and and read for a living so I I have a ridiculous amount of books but um but if I'm if I lose the engagement with with the subject matter it's kind of all over for me because why am I gonna push myself and push myself and push myself through the next four chapters that are just boring if I've got 30 other books that I've been wanting to read.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I you know it goes into the toss pile like all right I'll try that again another time and then and then honestly they've lost me because when will I ever have the time to come back to that book?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: I won't yeah I have I have more than a hundred times said I'm not buying any more books and then I go to buy more books and then I buy more books and then there are more books and then people send me books.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: People author books and send them to me.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there's never a a loss and then my favorite authors write and publish more books.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like oh gosh here we go and then I'll listen to a post uh a podcast and decide oh I like this author so I'm gonna go get all their books there's never an end it's really beneficial even if not if for no other book you can write all kinds of super long books later for your first book write a short book get people hooked and then they will move others out of the way to read your books and to share your knowledge and your expertise and to refer you.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely absolutely well I hope that everybody listening will uh who is interested in this which I hope is a large segment of people will check this out because I think this is a fantastic idea that is really needed and can really benefit people and bless their businesses.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: But if they need to know how to get in touch with both of you and how to find out more about this how would they go about doing that um well I am honore quarter and I am at honorequarter.com and there is a tab on my website that is write your book so honorecorder.com forward slash write hyphen your hyphen book that's the that is a page about this and of course my partner in book productivity and awesomeness Alice Sullivan is at Aliceullivan.com not surprisingly all right well this has been a blast I really appreciate both of you making time to do this I learned some things including I'm gonna have to google this I never knew that about the mass market paperback size and how that was designed to fit into a suit jacket pocket.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: That is fascinating that was my that was I I was researching what would the book size be to fit in a man's suit jacket pocket so that I could hand a book to someone at a networking event.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because I have the advantage as the author I've got a bag I'm a woman so I can carry a purse and I can carry 10 of those books in my purse and a$20 bill on my driver's license and some business cards and I was in business.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love it because they're just I've got I've got this size here this is actually one of my college course textbooks a little short book and they're just fun to hold it kind of makes you feel like a kid because I think of like you know the the Ralph S Mouse books that I read as a kid those stories and Stuart Little and you know the Wizard of Oz and those little paperback books there's just something that kind of makes you happy about having a little book.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's nostalgic.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is it is so and I'm so glad that both of you are here to not necessarily bring back the nostalgia but create some magic for people in their business with your awesome expertise in book creation and marketing with books.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks again so much we appreciate this.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're recording this well that conversation was a blast I learned a ton and I know that you did as well here are my three biggest takeaways from this conversation.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, a book can have a radical impact on your business.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now this is a recurring theme on the podcast and you'll continue to hear it.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because a book can establish you as an authority in your field.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: A book will go places that you could never go.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Books will give you multiple income streams.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many personal and professional benefits to writing a book that really it's a no-brainer.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or as Honore says in the title of one of her recent books you must write a book number two most business books are simply too long and I completely agree with this.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you write a book make it easier for your reader by keeping it shorter.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Personally I think if you're going to go over 200 pages you need a really good reason to do so.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's just my opinion other people don't agree with that but I know in my experience as a reader I like shorter books that get to the point faster so I can move on to the next book.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think a short book has a much better chance of actually getting read.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: So all things being equal I think shorter is better.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally takeaway number three create an excellent book this means writing it well having it edited paying for a good cover and all that sort of stuff.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you're going to put the time and energy into creating a book make it a good one because it's going to live on long after you do probably well I want to give a huge thank you to my awesome guests Honore Quarter and Alice Sullivan.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can find out more about better business books via this link honorecorder.com slash write dash your dashbook and I'll have that link in the show notes.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for listening I really appreciate your time and hopefully you took a lot of value away from this episode.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: Remember that you can find lots more resources for writers at KentSanders.net and until next time remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you in the next episode