Latest / NOISE vs SIGNAL by Inman / Staying Ahead of the Market with Christie's International Real Estate SoCal CEO Aaron Kirman

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Staying Ahead of the Market with Christie's International Real Estate SoCal CEO Aaron Kirman · NOISE vs SIGNAL by Inman

0:00
Hey everyone, today I got to speak with Aaron
0:02
Kirman, who is considered one of the top 100
0:05
most powerful real estate people in the US. What
0:10
an incredible story. He is the founder and CEO
0:13
of Christie's International Real Estate. We talked
0:15
about everything from crypto to AI to the luxury
0:19
markets to what's happening out there overall.
0:22
And we also found out who would win a fight between
0:25
him and James Harris and their competing TV shows.
0:28
This is one you shouldn't miss. Hey, everyone.
0:31
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1:05
Welcome to Noise vs. Signal. I'm your host, Inman
1:09
CEO Tom Bohn. Each week we sit down with the
1:11
top producing agents, industry CEOs, prop tech
1:15
founders, and the people shaping the future of
1:18
the business of home. Then we break down the
1:21
week's biggest headlines and decide what's noise
1:24
and what's signal. Let's get into it. I could
1:28
not be more excited. My guest today has sold
1:31
more than $24 billion in real estate over his
1:35
career, $1 .4 billion of it in the last year
1:38
alone. He sold the one in Bel Air for $126 million.
1:42
He built a brokerage from a standing start in
1:45
2022 to 300 agents and $4 .2 billion in volume
1:51
in three years. You've watched him talk stubborn
1:54
sellers off the ledge on CNBC's Listing Impossible,
1:57
and he's recently been named one of the most
1:59
powerful people in real estate. Aaron Kirman,
2:03
welcome. We appreciate it. Thank you for having
2:05
me. And what an introduction. I'd love to hear
2:07
it again. Thank you. That brings up a really
2:11
good start here because, you know, I know you
2:15
from TV and love the episodes. In fact, you know,
2:18
I often compare you. You're essentially the guy
2:21
who tells wealthy people that their baby's ugly.
2:24
That was the premise of the show. Yes, we told
2:27
people that their babies were ugly and it went
2:30
over really, really well because that's exactly
2:32
what people want to hear. Is that what you want
2:34
to hear? Absolutely. So when you wake up in the
2:37
morning from an intro like that, do you look
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in the mirror and go, I'm looking at one of the
2:42
top 100 most powerful real estate people in the
2:45
country? Absolutely not. I wake up in the morning
2:48
and I think, oh, my God. I mean, it's the furthest
2:51
thing from my head. We have 100 things to do
2:53
every day. So that's pretty much at the top of
2:55
our agenda. As a human, we're always trying to
2:58
evolve and get bigger and better and do different
3:00
things. And so for me, whatever is the past is
3:02
the past. I literally don't even think of any
3:04
of my past sales. I don't think of any of my
3:06
portfolio. And I just think about where I want
3:09
to get to today, tomorrow, and the next day.
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And I'm very, very future oriented. And then
3:15
there's always this, I grew up kind of poor.
3:18
poor and a very modest family. So there's always
3:21
this background of my background and wanting
3:25
to excel. So I am proud of where we are, but
3:28
it's the last thing I think of. Well, you know,
3:30
it's interesting because as I've done research
3:33
on you and I've talked to people who know you,
3:34
they do say you're incredibly humble and accessible.
3:37
And I think that's pretty, pretty cool. And behind
3:39
you there, I was expecting to see a bird, but
3:42
it's something completely different. Talk to
3:43
me about what that means, because I think it's
3:45
really cool. I want to steal it. I'll give you
3:47
the artist's name. She's great. She's an artist
3:50
and she basically, you know, has these very simple
3:53
bird cages and she does neon lighting in it.
3:57
And this one happens to say ego. And I fell in
4:00
love with it because it's in my office. And the
4:03
premise is, you know, let's keep our ego in a
4:06
cage and let's try to be as ego free as possible
4:10
and keep moving it forward. How do you, in residential
4:13
real estate, particularly in luxury, how the
4:16
hell do you keep ego out of it? I mean, isn't
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that what the game's all about? I think, look,
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our clients can have ego, and we certainly deal
4:26
with that every single day. For us, I always
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remember that at the end of the day, we are in
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a service -driven business. I am a real estate
4:36
agent. Maybe I had a show. Maybe I've sold. And
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by the way, you were wrong about one thing. 24
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has actually turned into 25. We need to change
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that in our bio. Not that we're counting. Not
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that we're counting. What's an extra billion?
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But I never forget that our job is to serve other
4:54
people. And at the end of the day, we're real
4:57
estate agents. We are middlemen and women. And
5:00
because of that, there should be no ego. There
5:04
should only be knowledge, experience, and really
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good guidance. Love that. Love that. You know,
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it's interesting because as successful as you've
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been, you started out as a kid with a speech
5:18
impediment. And from what I understand, it was
5:20
pretty bad. I mean, talk to me. Like, what is
5:22
that journey to where you are now? Like, what
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did you have to overcome? And how did you get
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to 24 or 25 billion now? Yeah. Well, you know,
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the kid that was is not the man that is. Growing
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up, I really did. I couldn't say the letter R,
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funny enough. So anytime there was an R. I still
5:39
can't, Aaron. I almost struggled to snap. I couldn't
5:44
say that letter and my name had two R's and there's
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more R's in our alphabet than you actually think.
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So I'll never forget like the first days of school
5:52
when they said, introduce yourself. I couldn't
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even say my own name. Like literally. And it
5:57
would always be a thing because nobody would
5:58
get it right. And then there would be a thing
6:00
and then the kids would laugh. So I would have
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to work pretty hard on overcoming those obstacles.
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And I have pretty strong dyslexia as well. So
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between not being able to read and write very
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well and then not being able to speak very well,
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it wasn't easy. But from adversity, I look back
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and I tell myself, I'm so grateful. for that
6:17
experience because i think without it i wouldn't
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be where i am today you know it sounds kind of
6:23
cheesy to say but every trial and tribulation
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is an experience and it makes you bigger and
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it makes you stronger and it gets you to where
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you need to be and even if as i look at my real
6:32
estate career um god there's been so many mistakes
6:37
so many mistakes even today i make so many mistakes
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right and from every mistake the only thing i
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always tell myself is i want to learn and I want
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to do better. And I don't want to judge myself
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for making a mistake. And so my step is always,
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God, I made a mistake. What can I learn from
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it? Let's not judge ourself. Let's not be hard
6:59
on ourself. And it's so hard to do in this real
7:02
estate business because the stakes are so high
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and, you know, money makes the world go around.
7:08
And oftentimes we need that commission. And when
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we lose a commission, It could literally break
7:14
your heart, right? And you're like, oh my God,
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that's just the worst thing. And especially because,
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you know, a lot of people start survival in life.
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But I've just been of the thought process that
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every day is a new day. Every day is an opportunity
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to excel. If you mess up, cry for a minute, eat
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pasta, get ice cream, do whatever you need to
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do to make yourself feel good. And then start
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again the next day and try to do better. And
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that's always kind of been my motto at Swerved.
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How does that, so challenges like that growing
7:43
up and young, you know, being shy and, you know,
7:46
difficulties communicating. How does that define
7:49
your leadership now with your team? You built
7:51
an incredibly large, successful team. How does
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that translate into your leadership skills? Good
7:57
question. I think because I had to observe people
8:02
more than be part of a moment. I was always in
8:05
the background as a kid. And so I got to study.
8:08
humans and human nature and how people work.
8:11
And I think because of those obstacles, it gave
8:16
me the ability to be, and I don't say this to
8:18
sound arrogant, but I'm a really good at sales.
8:21
Like I know how to sell. And I think those obstacles
8:24
got me there because I listen. And for me, salesmanship
8:29
in general is understanding who is on the other
8:31
side and really figuring out what it is that
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they're trying to accomplish. And so for me,
8:38
I have this mastery of meeting somebody, listening
8:42
to what they're saying and understanding who
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they are, what they are, what they want, where
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they want to go. And that intelligence. has really
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helped me to do what I've done on all sides from,
8:53
you know, client selling, building a brokerage,
8:56
building a team, you know, understanding human
8:58
nature because sales is understanding human nature.
9:00
And when you understand that, it's really the
9:02
sky's the limit. Yeah, yeah. What's more fun?
9:05
I mean, you had a very popular show. I loved
9:08
it. It was really interesting. It was really
9:09
engaging. Did you like that more or do you like
9:12
the actual day -to -day business? Like, what
9:14
really was more passionate for you? So, I'm...
9:19
Passionate about building businesses. I'm very
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passionate about growth. Very passionate about
9:24
marketing, advertising, figuring out new techniques.
9:27
Whatever's happening new in the world, I embrace.
9:29
And I'm like, let's go. And I drive my management
9:31
team crazy because I'll send them 20 texts in
9:34
the morning. Let's do this. Let's do that. Let's
9:36
get there. And this is all probably before 730.
9:39
The show was really fun. And I actually viewed
9:44
it as very challenging, to be honest. I think
9:46
the one thing that... was different from me than
9:50
some of the other TV people is I already had
9:52
a really, really, really established business
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before I had the show. And what people don't
9:58
realize about their shows is it takes hundreds
10:00
and hundreds and hundreds of hours. So when we
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filmed the show, I probably lost $4 million in
10:07
commissions. Wow. Yeah. And that was really hard
10:12
on me because in my world, I have the same four
10:16
to five competitors. And, you know, if I'm not
10:18
available at two o 'clock to go look at a $25
10:21
million house or $30 million house, one of my
10:24
competitors will be. And when you're shooting
10:27
a show, you could be out for two or three or
10:29
four days and unavailable. And if that client's
10:32
willing to wait for you, God bless America. But
10:34
if they're not, you lose. And quite frankly,
10:38
the time that I shot that show, I lost a lot
10:41
of money in commission. So, you know, people
10:43
always have asked me, do I want to do another
10:45
show? And I've been approached. It's not something
10:48
that I'm saying no to. But for right now, I'm
10:51
loving building a brokerage. I'm loving selling
10:53
houses. I'm loving embracing AI. I'm loving embracing
10:57
our crypto divisions. And I'm loving the build
11:00
of that. If the right show came up, I'm not saying
11:02
no to it. It is a lot of time. It is a lot of
11:05
energy. And quite frankly, there is a lot of
11:07
loss. And I think that was different for me than
11:10
some people that grew up with the show. Because
11:13
a lot of people that have shows didn't have a
11:15
business, but the show got them there. And it
11:17
was just a very normal part of their everyday
11:20
life. Let's talk about building a business because
11:22
you just launched a new development division.
11:24
And it's probably one of those. softest markets
11:26
in years. I mean, if you look at what the economy
11:29
is saying, what NAR is saying, everyone else
11:32
seems to be pulling back from new construction.
11:34
What do you see in that pipeline that some of
11:37
the skeptics don't? So we launched our division
11:40
three months ago. And in our division, we have
11:44
like $30 billion worth of inventory. I didn't
11:48
even know that number, by the way. I just happened
11:50
to see it literally right before we did this
11:52
interview. And what happened was, you know, we
11:55
get calls from all over the world. People love
11:57
our marketing, our advertising, our AI intelligence,
11:59
our database, and they want to be part of that.
12:01
And so we were getting calls from London, Hong
12:04
Kong, Dubai. And at the time, I didn't really
12:07
know how to, you know, do any of this because
12:09
we didn't have our division. So me and some of
12:11
our partners here that work at Christie Southern
12:14
California decided to open this new division.
12:16
And it's been absolutely amazing. Since then,
12:18
I, you know, partnered with Tomer and Don and...
12:22
You know, we have other leaders and we've really
12:24
done very well. We've like sold out the Rosewoods
12:27
and that's Tomer. I don't want to say that's
12:29
mine. We have the largest tower in Dubai. We
12:32
have an amazing Malibu opportunity, Privé Malibu.
12:36
It's just been rolling and it's been so exciting.
12:39
And I would bet that the new home. Development
12:42
is going to always be such a massive force. Maybe
12:45
it's not that big in LA just because LA is not
12:48
necessarily a vertical city, but all over the
12:50
world. And since then, we have developers from
12:52
everywhere trying to be part of our division.
12:54
So it's been absolutely amazing. Do you think
12:57
luxury in and of itself is pretty insulated despite
12:59
what's happening? You know what's funny? I regret
13:02
a statement I said. I think maybe six years ago
13:05
when interest rates started going up, I remember
13:06
I was on... CNBC or Fox, I can't remember what
13:10
it was. And I said, guys, I get all cash offers.
13:15
So interest rates are not going to be affecting
13:18
the Uber high end. And I said that on TV, I said
13:21
it live. And I went on a rampage for it. I think
13:23
I said it for two weeks straight. It was on TV.
13:28
And I really thought that that was the case because
13:31
I get a lot of all cash offers across my desk.
13:34
boy, I could not have been more wrong. I was
13:37
just really wrong about it. And what I later
13:39
realized is two things. One, even though they're
13:43
all cash offers on my desk, they're borrowing
13:45
from something. A lot of times they're borrowing
13:47
from their own portfolio. They may not be getting
13:49
traditional loans or borrowing from their private
13:52
bank, but nevertheless, there's still an interest
13:54
rate, still needs to be paid. Two, as we know,
13:58
real estate is a herdman talent. When the market
14:01
is great, Everyone wants to be a part of it.
14:04
And when the market's challenging, it retracts.
14:07
And that's the same at the high end, middle end,
14:10
lower price points. It's kind of the same. And
14:12
so quite frankly, the high end still sells, but
14:16
it is very affected by the world events. And
14:19
I always tell people, I don't need, and I do
14:22
read the paper every day. I love the Wall Street
14:24
Journal. I love the news, but I don't need to
14:27
see any of it to know what's happening in the
14:31
day. Because this phone is what tells me where
14:35
I am. And if I wake up and I have hundreds of
14:38
messages trying to see hundreds of homes and
14:40
everything, I'm like, okay, it's a good day.
14:42
If there is a moment that there is something
14:45
happening geopolitically or stock market related
14:49
or crypto related, we feel it. You know, I do
14:53
what I do, which is really focused on the high
14:55
end. As a brokerage and as what I was back in
14:59
the past, a team lead, we do everything. And
15:01
so the trends are the trends. And it's really
15:04
interesting to see what happens in the high end,
15:06
quite frankly, is very similar to all price points.
15:09
Although what makes this business complicated
15:12
is nuance. And there's a lot of nuance in this
15:15
business neighborhood. type of house, price point,
15:18
and all of those things. You know, it could be
15:20
street to street, city to city, county to county,
15:23
and it just makes a difference. You know, one
15:26
of the units in Sierra Towers just sold for a
15:28
record 4 ,900 a square foot or something crazy
15:31
like that. Is that a demand signal? Or like,
15:34
what does that say anything about the next 200
15:36
units you have to move? Or like, is that just
15:38
a trophy? Both. It's a demand signal and it's
15:42
a trophy. Funny enough, I sold that apartment.
15:44
I can't remember what year, but that was my sale
15:47
before it got remodeled for, I think, I want
15:49
to say 17 million as a shell. So while, you know,
15:54
you read the headlines and you're like, oh my
15:55
God, the profit's the profit. The acquisition
15:57
price was 17. You know, it's good square footage.
16:00
The profit margin is not probably as great as
16:02
people. think but the nuances sierra towers is
16:05
one of the most luxurious buildings i would argue
16:07
in the nation a lot of celebrities love to live
16:10
there a lot of very wealthy people love to live
16:11
there has great views by beverly hills and west
16:14
hollywood and then on top of it there's there's
16:16
an argument to say if it's a second or third
16:18
home and you don't want to deal with the cost
16:21
structure of a home or maybe you travel a lot
16:23
it's great to be able to have an estate in the
16:26
sky yeah When you think about what's happening
16:30
in general overall now, almost luxury markets
16:33
in particular, New York, Miami, why LA? Yeah.
16:38
Why are people buying in LA? Why does LA stand
16:40
out? Everyone's talking right now about Miami.
16:43
Miami is the hottest thing going. And you always
16:45
hear about New York. New York is always in the
16:47
mix, right? LA seems to come in and out. Why
16:50
LA now? Yeah. So look, the media loves to take
16:55
a topic. and roll with it. They just do. You're
16:59
the head of a media empire, so you would know.
17:02
I'm hoping to get one right now and take it.
17:05
But I'll tell you a funny story. Two or three
17:08
people, this goes back 15 years, two or three
17:11
people call me from New York that wanted to get
17:14
out of New York and move to LA at the high end.
17:17
And I remember I was on TV one day and I said,
17:20
oh my God, so many people are moving from New
17:22
York. But I had three. I'm not making this up.
17:27
Two weeks later, there's a mass exodus from New
17:30
York going to LA. And then I started hearing
17:34
every other real estate agent say it. And it
17:37
just was a thing for like two years. And I remember
17:39
looking back and I was like, God, there was only
17:41
three. I'm not saying that Miami has made a lot
17:44
of great decisions from a business perspective,
17:46
taxation, you know, they're running a very good
17:49
city. And you can't argue this, a wealth migration
17:52
that is happening across the nation. and arguably
17:54
across the world, by the way. But if you really
17:56
look at the numbers, and I've studied this, above
17:58
10 million, and I'm not going to give you the
18:01
exact numbers because I don't remember it, but
18:03
I could tell you it was very interesting. If
18:05
you look above 10 million at title, there was
18:08
something like 300, and don't quote me on the
18:11
exact numbers, but there was something like 300
18:12
something plus sales in New York City. If you
18:16
do LA and surrounding counties, meaning like
18:20
periphery, San Fernando Valley, Orange County.
18:23
There was something like 200 and we were very,
18:27
very, very close to New York. And then if you
18:31
look at Miami and then let's say Palm Beach,
18:34
I think Miami had a very high hundred and something
18:37
range and so did Palm Beach. So, you know, the
18:40
media doesn't always tell the whole story. And
18:42
the whole story is there's a lot of money going
18:46
in a lot of cities and a lot of places. It's
18:49
not just Miami. I have clients moving to Montana
18:51
and Idaho. And we have a lot of clients moving
18:54
to Europe and Portugal. I think the lesson that
18:57
we learned from COVID is that people don't need
19:00
to have one house. People don't need to be stagnant.
19:03
And the Zoom culture and the work culture changed
19:05
a lot. And the wealthy have choices, right? It
19:09
doesn't necessarily mean like if somebody leaves
19:12
LA to go to Miami, they're still keeping a place
19:14
in LA. They're just expanding their reach. And
19:18
I think the lesson is the world got bigger. The
19:21
world also got smaller. And people are taking
19:25
advantage of it. Let's actually talk about that
19:29
specifically then and go to Dubai. The Burj is
19:32
easy deal. I mean, that's incredibly interesting.
19:34
You have the California rights, the second tallest
19:37
building on earth in Dubai. What is that deal
19:40
about? Tell me how that works and how that all
19:42
comes together for you. Yeah, so fun. The developer
19:45
reached out to us because, as you know, being
19:47
a real estate agent today is not just selling
19:49
houses. It's working with our media partners.
19:52
It's working with our social media partners.
19:54
It's always telling stories, right? We're trying
19:56
to tell stories. So I always base my business
20:00
on a very simple formula, and this sounds really
20:02
kind of bad, but I'll say it anyway. I always
20:05
try to take the easiest, most simple way, or
20:09
arguably the laziest way to get to where I want
20:11
to be. And I remember... saying to myself, I
20:14
don't want a door knock. I don't want to talk
20:17
to people I don't know. And if I have to knock,
20:19
knock, knock on 100 doors, that sounded exhausting
20:22
to me. So I was like, well, how can I get to
20:25
the 100 people without going to the doors? And
20:28
I realized it was through business manager, lawyers,
20:30
CPAs, and market. So when we market correctly,
20:34
people are going to come to us. And that's how
20:37
I always built my business. And The Burge is
20:39
Easy is an example of a multi, multi -billion
20:42
dollar company because they have probably 15
20:45
other mega developments in Dubai. They're like,
20:47
look, we want to work with you. We want to be
20:48
part of what you're creating. We want to know
20:51
how you do what you do. We think you could be
20:53
very helpful for us. And this is what we're creating.
20:55
Long story short, flew to Dubai, met them, and
20:58
the rest is history. And here we have it. And
21:00
it's been a really great partnership. We've brought
21:02
a lot of high -end buyers to the table, and it's
21:05
been really exciting. And that changes the dynamic
21:07
of what you do. So you no longer have to just
21:09
be a specialist now for L .A., greater L .A.
21:12
You now have to know an entirely different country
21:15
and all those types of things. I have never just
21:18
been a specialist in L .A. That was never. And
21:21
I wish I could say I'm so smart and I intelligently
21:24
curated that life. It happened by accident. I
21:27
think when I was 18 years old, I was on a plane
21:30
sitting in economy class. doing a trip by myself
21:33
and I was sitting next to somebody who asked
21:36
me what I did. I said, I'm in real estate. And
21:38
they're like, oh, I want to buy an apartment
21:40
in Paris. That's why I'm on this trip. And I
21:43
was like, that's so great. And I remember she
21:44
invited me to go with her and look at apartments
21:47
in Paris on that trip. And I had so much fun
21:49
because I'm very much of a voyeur when it comes
21:52
to real estate. Like I love real estate. And
21:54
I remember thinking. God, and this was before
21:56
the world got as global as it is and the wealthy
22:00
moved to all these different places. And from
22:03
that moment on, I spent a lot of my time in airplanes
22:07
traveling the world, meeting international business
22:09
managers and banks and people that manage cities.
22:13
And so I've been very lucky to sell some of the
22:16
world's most expensive properties all over the
22:18
world, including the south of France and Hong
22:20
Kong and Tokyo and London. And the reason that
22:23
I've been lucky is because maybe they knew me
22:26
from LA or they bought a house here. But after
22:29
that experience, they said, I want you as part
22:31
of my team in London or Hong Kong or wherever
22:34
it may be, come with me. And so it's been so
22:37
much fun because I've sold billions of dollars
22:40
in international properties as well. Love that.
22:42
So you're in a lot of different trends. OK, so
22:45
TV, international sales, Dubai, but you're also
22:49
now started the first crypto division at a U
22:52
.S. brokerage. What does that look like? I mean,
22:53
how many people are coming and actually what
22:56
percentage of sales are actually involved, some
22:58
form of crypto attached to it in your world?
23:01
So we opened that, I want to say, nine months
23:05
ago, maybe around that. Since then, we've done.
23:09
Estimated 400 million in crypto deals. 450. And
23:13
we're really proud of it. It happened by accident.
23:16
I had a client who called and said, I want to
23:19
buy a house in crypto. And I said, I don't know
23:21
how to do that. But let me see if I can be done
23:24
and let me go down the path and I'll make some
23:26
calls. I love that you admit that though. You're
23:29
like, I don't know how to do that, but I'll figure
23:31
it out. I did not know how to do it. And I did
23:34
not know if it was possible. And we went down
23:37
that path and I called lawyers and I called this
23:40
person and I called title and everyone was like,
23:43
I don't think so. I'm not liking it. I don't
23:45
feel safe. And it was like, let's figure out
23:47
how to make everyone feel safe. And we did it.
23:51
It was a lot of learning. It took a little more
23:53
time than I wanted. And we closed a relatively
23:56
large deal doing crypto. And we learned a lot
24:00
of lessons along the way. And I was like, wow.
24:01
And then literally I closed that. And a week
24:05
later, I get another call on a smaller deal.
24:07
I want crypto. And I was like, wow, there's a
24:09
huge market for crypto. It's happening. Crypto
24:12
is here to stay. It's not going anywhere. We
24:14
need to be at the forefront of that. And so we
24:16
opened up our crypto division. It's been amazing.
24:18
We have calls from all over the world to purchase
24:21
homes and to... list homes. And it's been great
24:25
because a lot of it's been in LA, but a lot of
24:27
it, you know, we've done deals all over the world
24:29
now doing crypto. And obviously we need partners
24:32
when we're doing things out of our wheelhouse
24:34
per se, but we think it's only going to get bigger,
24:36
better. We think it's a multi -trillion dollar
24:38
business. And we love being at the forefront
24:41
of it because it's been a really fun learning
24:43
experience and quite successful as well. Most
24:46
agents spend their entire career building their
24:49
personal brand. right their personal brand equity
24:51
you actually traded the name on your door for
24:54
christie's you know would you do it again and
24:57
how did that work out for you interesting question
25:00
um i didn't necessarily trade my name so right
25:05
my name is my name my brand is my brand i just
25:09
separated it right at one time my name was on
25:13
the door of the entire brokerage and I did not
25:17
know this at the time, but building a brokerage
25:21
is really complicated and really hard. And it
25:24
is not for the weak, like not the easiest business
25:28
in the world. And what happened was I had a lot
25:33
of top agents come to me and say, I really like
25:35
you. I really love what you're creating. But
25:39
I don't know if I feel comfortable having my
25:43
name under your name. Not that your name's not
25:45
amazing name. But I want my own name in lights.
25:48
I want to be the one that has the show one day.
25:54
And I want my neighborhood to know it's me. And
25:56
it made great sense to me. And I said, look,
25:59
even though I own a brokerage, I am still selling
26:02
property because that is what I am passionate
26:04
about. And I love it. So I'm going to do what
26:06
I do, which is sell houses under my name. But
26:10
I'm going to, for the sake of building something
26:12
bigger than myself. lose my name at the door.
26:15
And it turned out to be a great decision, in
26:17
my opinion, because we've been able to get amazing
26:20
top producers in our brokerage. I mean, we have
26:23
producers that are selling 600 million a year,
26:26
500 million a year market share in their communities.
26:30
And that has been a blessing because. I am a
26:34
big fan of teams. I love teams. I love partnership.
26:37
And if I look at what we've created as a brokerage,
26:40
we have amazing people that are doing amazing
26:42
businesses. And we are a family. And we're a
26:45
family that dominates luxury. And it's been good.
26:48
So yes, I would do it again. But I don't necessarily
26:50
think I gave up my name. And I think my name
26:53
has continued to do what it should be doing.
26:56
Does Compass buying the Christie's name help?
27:00
What does that change? Does that change any of
27:01
the dynamic? It did not for me because I own
27:06
my own brokerage. I manage my own brokerage.
27:10
I have my own marketing teams and advertising
27:13
teams. We have our own culture. They bought the
27:17
Christie's name at the very top, right? And they
27:20
have the rights to Christie's, and that's them.
27:23
But we are us. We do our own thing. We have a
27:27
great relationship with them. We enjoy certain
27:30
levels of partnership. But I would say we're
27:33
still very, very, very different entities with
27:36
different cultures, different ethos, different
27:39
ways of doing things. And that will probably
27:41
always, you know, be a thing. Is there ever a
27:46
world where Robert Refkin calls you up and says,
27:48
hey, Aaron, I want to buy the whole thing you
27:51
sell? I try to answer everything as honestly
27:54
as possible. And the real answer is it's not
27:56
on my agenda today, right? I'm not ready to not
28:01
build. We feel like we're in our infancy. We
28:04
have so much to do. We have so much expansion.
28:08
We're not only doing the new homes division,
28:10
we're doing architectural, we're doing estates,
28:11
about to do probate and trust. We have a whole
28:14
tech division. We have amazing, we haven't even
28:16
talked about this, but we built an amazing AI
28:18
strategy and program behind it. So I feel like
28:21
we're just getting started. We don't want to
28:23
be the biggest. That's not our goal. We're not
28:27
here. You know, I'm not here to be Compass. I'm
28:30
not here to be a version of Serhat. Like, we
28:33
want to do what we want to do, which is dominate
28:36
luxury and international, national marketing
28:40
and advertising our way. And I think it's very
28:42
distinctive to us. If in 20 years, I might be
28:47
ready to retire, maybe I would consider selling
28:49
it. I was on vacation for a week and a half,
28:52
and I thought, oh my God, I need a vacation.
28:54
And after a week and a half, I can't tell you
28:57
how happy I was to be back at work, running a
29:00
brokerage and selling houses. And by the way,
29:02
I don't run a brokerage myself. I have an amazing
29:05
management team that helps a lot. So there are
29:07
so many different models out there right now.
29:09
Franchise, boutique, independent, mega platform,
29:12
virtual. Which one doesn't survive? Where do
29:16
you see it going? You know, this is going to
29:18
be contrary to what everybody else thinks. I
29:24
think they're all going to survive because this
29:28
business is about change, entrepreneurship, and
29:31
recreation. And when consolidation becomes such
29:35
a thing, not that it's bad, like there's a lot
29:38
of good that comes from consolidation, but sometimes
29:42
there's a reverse floor plan and people say,
29:44
okay, I want to be part of a boutique or I want
29:46
to be part of something smaller or I need something
29:48
different. And that's okay. You know, there's
29:51
a saying, there's a shoe for every foot, right?
29:53
And I think that everyone is going to survive.
29:57
But the caveat to that is the only ones that
30:01
are going to survive are the ones that embrace
30:03
change, that embrace AI and infrastructural technologies,
30:09
embrace the new way and are at the forefront.
30:14
And I do think, and this is going to be the sad
30:17
truth. Inman has said this. The statistics have
30:20
said this. They always say 90 % of the business
30:23
is done by 10 % of the people. I think it's going
30:26
to be 90 % of the business is done by 5 % of
30:31
the people. Wow. And the 5 % that will survive
30:37
are the ones that are not following the trend.
30:42
The ones that will survive are going to be the
30:46
trend maker. Interesting. I remember Ryan Serhant
30:50
said something that I thought was, and I like
30:52
Ryan, we're friends. He's like, there's only
30:54
going to be two brokerages in the next 15 years.
30:57
I don't know if you read that article. Yeah,
30:59
Compass and Serhant. Compass and Serhant. And
31:02
I thought to myself, how self -serving. Not a
31:07
bad thing. Yeah, well, you know, in fairness
31:09
to Ryan, and I do love him as well, you know,
31:11
it's a great soundbite, right? And it got picked
31:14
up. Listen. Great soundbite. Congrats for making
31:17
a soundbite. But here's my thing. I'm not trying
31:22
to make a soundbite. For me, I think authenticity
31:25
and truth is very, very important, whether you
31:28
get a soundbite or not. And the reality is the
31:32
real estate industry is a multi -trillion, trillion
31:34
-dollar business around the world, and that's
31:38
going nowhere. So there's room for everybody
31:41
as long as people are innovating. One of the
31:44
things that's frustrating for me about this business
31:46
is, and I really think this is true, I have agents
31:50
that have been in business for five years that
31:52
are selling $150 million. I have agents that
31:55
have been in the business for 30 years that are
31:57
selling five. It's changed. You take these classes.
32:02
Oh, do the postcards, doorknock, call, call.
32:07
I mean, listen, it's a part of our business and
32:08
it definitely works, but there's a bigger, better,
32:11
easier way to do it. And the ones that do the
32:13
bigger, easier, better way are the ones that
32:15
are going to go selling hundreds of millions
32:17
of dollars in real estate. And we see it today.
32:20
Interesting. I was just actually spent some time
32:22
this past week with Robert Palmer and his company's
32:25
LPT. And his message was almost like the opposite.
32:28
He's talking about the fact that the people who
32:30
are selling two or three have a place and will
32:33
always be there. And they're really doubled down
32:35
on kind of meeting people where they're at. So
32:36
it's interesting to hear that take overall. I
32:39
don't think so. And I'll tell you why. When I
32:41
started in the business 30 years ago, I could
32:44
legitimately say, oh, that's my client. This
32:46
is my client. Oh, yeah. I teach in seminars,
32:50
if you think you have a client, you don't. Never
32:53
use that line. No real estate has a client anymore
32:56
unless it's an active contract. But the day that
32:59
active contract is either sold, expired, or withdrawn,
33:03
done. It is for anybody. And clients today go
33:07
with who's in front of their face at the right
33:09
time, at the right moment, with the right experience.
33:13
And that's the beauty of the new real estate
33:16
world. When I started, And I was very young.
33:19
I was like 17, 18 years old. It was what was
33:21
considered a mom and pop business. Oh, my grandma
33:24
sells real estate. That was the business. And
33:26
breaking in, it was very difficult. Today, I
33:29
tell people through technology, social media,
33:32
AI, the break -in is so much easier. 100%. You
33:38
know, of the backing. Let's talk about AI, because
33:41
I always talk about the fact that AI raises both
33:44
the floor and the ceiling. And you actually said
33:47
to News Nation that AI will never replace a great
33:50
agent. And I absolutely agree with that. But
33:52
how is AI affecting your world right now? How
33:57
are you using it to enhance the customer experience
33:59
specifically to your clients? AI is the most
34:03
widely used word. And I think 95 % of the real
34:07
estate population has no idea what it actually
34:09
is. People love to talk about it. People love
34:12
to pretend that they know what they're doing.
34:14
talking about, but it's a very wide word. It's
34:15
like the same word. I also have a problem with
34:17
the word luxury because I think luxury can mean
34:20
so many different things and everybody uses it,
34:22
right? We see all these seminars. We see all
34:24
these agents saying AI, but there's so many fragments
34:27
to AI and there's so many uses. You know, a lot
34:30
of people use AI for the background. Let's make
34:32
our job easier. Let's have it execute paperwork.
34:34
Let's have it create my CRM and make sure it
34:37
gets automated. All beautiful things and AI will
34:39
do that and it will help agent productivity.
34:42
For me, this sounds terrible. I shouldn't admit
34:45
this out loud. I don't even know how to write
34:47
a contract anymore. The contracts have changed
34:48
so much. I have my staff write the contract for
34:51
me. So I do, I'm not interested in the background
34:55
of that stuff because I have people that are
34:58
better than me doing that so that I could be
35:00
upfront selling houses and doing what I'm good
35:03
at, right? For me though, where I'm obsessed
35:07
with AI is I want to know. how it can get me
35:10
more buyers and more sellers and more intelligence.
35:14
And I have built a program that helps me do that.
35:17
I understand moving parts of homes, neighborhoods,
35:21
who's looking, who potential buyers are, or at
35:24
least maybe I don't have their contact information,
35:26
but I have some intelligence on their computer
35:29
systems to try to get their contact information
35:31
through Google retargeting and all the things
35:33
that are legal. I think that that's the wave
35:37
of the future. And I think that that's important
35:39
for me because I'm passionate about selling homes.
35:43
And part of that is the back end. But for me,
35:47
I like using AI intelligence to really sell more
35:50
homes and get to more people and get bigger and
35:52
better. And I think that that's going to be a
35:53
very important part of our future. Love it. Okay,
35:57
this is the part of the show where we do signal
35:59
versus noise. I'm going to throw out a topic.
36:01
You're going to tell me whether it's signal,
36:02
it's foretelling something that will be credible
36:05
and important going forward, or it's simply noise.
36:08
You ready for it? Ready. All right, here we go.
36:10
All right, crypto and luxury real estate, signal
36:13
or noise? Signal. Absolutely signal. Okay, so
36:17
you think crypto has legs and will continue to
36:19
advance? Crypto is here to stay, going to get
36:22
better and better, and I mark my words. multi
36:24
-trillion dollar business. And knock on wood,
36:27
Christie's SoCal will be at the forefront of
36:29
that with our crypto division. I love it. All
36:33
right. The celebrity agent TV brokerage, signal
36:37
or noise? Ooh, good one. Good one. Noise. Noise,
36:43
okay. Noise. I think it's had its moment, place
36:47
and time. I think that if you look, a lot of
36:52
the real estate shows, have been canceled, including
36:54
due to COVID, mine, by the way, and I own that.
36:58
You know, there's only a few that have survived,
37:01
right? And it's very limited. I think we're down
37:04
to just a very small number of shows. And I'll
37:06
tell you why I know this. We no longer need a
37:10
network to tell us what to do and to approve
37:12
our work and to tell us how to produce. I am
37:15
my own producer. I have my own social media channels.
37:19
I do what I want to do. I am my own character.
37:22
And quite frankly, sorry, the people that have
37:25
the shows, we know because I've done a show,
37:28
most of the work that you guys are doing is produced
37:31
because you can't shoot a show on the spot, which
37:34
means somebody's planned the story. It's been
37:38
pitched. It's been approved. It's been edited.
37:42
And by the time it goes live, you're 10 months
37:45
behind what actually happened. Therefore, I believe.
37:50
YouTube, social media, self -production, any
37:53
agent in America that wants to do it can go get
37:56
millions of followers themselves and they don't
37:59
need to be approved by a network, which, by the
38:02
way, are all suffering and don't have a whole
38:04
lot of money to begin with. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
38:08
Signal or noise? Off -market pocket listings.
38:12
Signal. Signal. Signal. Absolutely. a right to
38:21
not do what they want to do with the property.
38:23
I think everyone should have a right. If a client
38:25
wants to not put their house on the MLS for privacy,
38:28
security, or any other reason, that should be
38:31
their choice. And I think if I was a betting
38:34
man, Compass and the people leading that chart
38:38
will win that in time. All right. Last question.
38:42
Most important one, because you had an incredibly
38:44
popular show and so did James Harris, right?
38:47
Who would win in a street fight? You or James
38:49
Harris? Ooh. He's scrappy. He's a scrappy guy.
38:55
Ooh, good question. I'm going to go with me.
38:58
I don't know how to fight. I've never been in
39:01
a physical fight. I've come close so many times.
39:04
I always tell people if I think my teeth are
39:06
going to get knocked out, I will run away rather
39:07
than take it. Which has kept me away from mega
39:11
fights. But when... And if it got there, I have
39:15
a level of scrappy that people don't often see,
39:19
but it does exist. It's kind of buried. I remember
39:21
when I was a kid, I used to have like a terrible
39:23
temper. And I remember even in young and real
39:26
estate, if a client pissed me off, I would say
39:28
to myself, I can't believe I said that to this
39:29
person. So I have it, but through years of experience,
39:33
it's been tempered. But if he wants to bring
39:36
it on - You know those Brits, a few Guinness,
39:39
and they clear the bench, man. You gotta - I
39:42
don't think he has a chance against me on that
39:45
one. But, you know, hopefully we'll never know.
39:47
I love it. Aaron Kirman, founder and CEO of Christie's
39:51
International Real Estate, Southern California,
39:53
one of the top 100 most powerful people in real
39:56
estate, and a friend to Inman. Thank you so much
39:58
for joining us here today. Thank you so much
40:00
for having me. This was super fun. this is awesome
40:02
thanks for listening to noise versus signal follow
40:05
us on instagram at inmanews for more conversations
40:09
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40:12
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40:15
an episode i'll see you next time