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Capital Layer and the Future of Stablecoin Payments in the AI Supply Chain · The Stable Pulse

• 0:00
  Dante Reminick: Please welcome Justin Wang and host Dante Reminick for a special staple culture sponsored by Capital Layer.
• 0:08
  Dante Reminick: Awesome.
• 0:09
  Dante Reminick: Hey everyone.
• 0:10
  Dante Reminick: Great to be here.
• 0:11
  Dante Reminick: My name is Dante.
• 0:12
  Dante Reminick: Justin, really, really excited to have you here.
• 0:15
  Dante Reminick: I think that what you're building at Capital Layer is fundamentally different than what most people at this conference are focused on.
• 0:23
  Dante Reminick: Let's just start with introductions, right?
• 0:26
  Dante Reminick: So tell me about yourself and more importantly, tell me about what you're building at Capital Layer.
• 0:30
  Justin Wang: Yeah, for sure.
• 0:30
  Justin Wang: Hi guys, I'm the founder of Capital Layers.
• 0:32
  Justin Wang: We want to reimagine the money movement for global AI supply chain.
• 0:37
  Justin Wang: Funny thing is that the way I say global AI supply chain is because we're based in Taipei, Taiwan.
• 0:43
  Justin Wang: 90% of AI infrastructures are actually produced from Taiwan right now.
• 0:46
  Justin Wang: And then interestingly speaking, out of every 10 bucks spending in the US right now, $8 goes to AI infrastructures.
• 0:51
  Justin Wang: So to be able to build a constructed AI data centered right now, 90% of uh equipment infrastructures, all these things are actually coming from Taiwan.
• 0:58
  Justin Wang: And then we have 5% coming from Korea memberships, and then 5% from FAFS, from Europe's, and then et cetera, from US.
• 1:04
  Dante Reminick: Just so that I make sure I heard that correctly, out of every $10 that the US is spending, eight of those dollars are going to build AI infrastructure.
• 1:13
  Justin Wang: Yeah, well, a computer is already a trillion dollar industry on a path tour.
• 1:17
  Justin Wang: I think uh Taiwan has been seen as a global phenomenon.
• 1:21
  Justin Wang: Yeah, we're seeing 40% of growth GDP uh by this year already.
• 1:25
  Justin Wang: We have surpassed several countries, become the third largest trading partners to the US.
• 1:30
  Justin Wang: We actually surpassed China and Hong Kong by earlier this year's.
• 1:33
  Justin Wang: So I think what Taiwan and US are doing right now as a global phenomenon.
• 1:37
  Dante Reminick: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:38
  Dante Reminick: I mean, I think people talk a lot about AI.
• 1:41
  Dante Reminick: People talk a lot about data centers, but you are in the thick of what is necessary to build them, right?
• 1:48
  Dante Reminick: We see these huge deals come out all over the internet all the time about, oh, this company just paid $150 billion to NVIDIA or whatever it might be.
• 1:56
  Dante Reminick: But I think most people don't think about the piping that actually needs to make that happen, right?
• 2:02
  Dante Reminick: So to your point, most of this spending is going through Taiwan in one shape, way, shape, or form.
• 2:08
  Dante Reminick: The question then is, how does money move from point A to point B?
• 2:12
  Dante Reminick: And I know that you guys are building the infrastructure to actually make that happen.
• 2:15
  Dante Reminick: We talk to a lot of people that say, hey, we're doing B2B payments with stable coins or whatever it might be.
• 2:20
  Dante Reminick: And I know that you guys are in that adjacent world about payments in the world of AI necessitates you to build Capital Ayer from the ground up.
• 2:31
  Dante Reminick: Why doesn't the existing infrastructure work for these types of flows?
• 2:35
  Justin Wang: Well, before we talk about that, I definitely wanted to put more emphasis on why we create Capital Air's first place since last year.
• 2:41
  Justin Wang: I know my family owns semiconductor businesses in Taiwan.
• 2:45
  Justin Wang: We're trading with quite a few known AI supply chain companies.
• 2:48
  Justin Wang: And then the other day, at dinner last year, one of the chairmans came up to me.
• 2:52
  Justin Wang: He's like, Hey, you I know you do stablecoin crypto related.
• 2:54
  Justin Wang: Our department has been getting numerous requests from our suppliers that they want to sit on stable coins.
• 2:59
  Justin Wang: So as we dive further in, we realize that there's actually quite a numbers that love suppliers distributed want to pay in stablecoin, especially the one in Latin America's, Brazil's, and then uh sanction countries that will incorporate into Hong Kong, Singapore, and then use stablecoin to pay off the suppliers.
• 3:16
  Justin Wang: I mean, obviously, earlier this year, you know, Trump has imposed more sanctions toward tricks manufacturers where you cannot sell to Russia, you cannot sell to China, or numerous countries you can name it.
• 3:27
  Justin Wang: So I think the activity we're seeing for stablecoin right now, especially to Taiwan, I think 60%, 70% of money are actually paid by sanctioned countries, which is nothing wrong.
• 3:36
  Justin Wang: You know, uh as an exporting nations like Taiwan, if you want to pay me a dollar, I will take the dollar and give you the goods and services.
• 3:42
  Justin Wang: So since last year, we have Pornara with fuel for banks in Taiwan already.
• 3:47
  Justin Wang: We're building infrastructure for the banks for them to be able to receive and send stable coins on behalf of the enterprises.
• 3:52
  Justin Wang: So right now we have corner up, also our investors, Gigabyte, Windstrons, and also Penatrons, all these known air supply chain manufacturers are our clients' investors as well.
• 4:03
  Dante Reminick: Let's dive more into the product.
• 4:04
  Dante Reminick: You and I were talking backstage.
• 4:06
  Dante Reminick: You are not in the flow of funds.
• 4:08
  Dante Reminick: You are building an operating system for financial institutions to be able to adopt stable coins.
• 4:13
  Dante Reminick: Tell us what that means, why it's important.
• 4:16
  Justin Wang: Well, we initially, when we start capital area, we want to get into the B2B payments.
• 4:20
  Justin Wang: I think that's where the juice it is.
• 4:22
  Justin Wang: You know, you make BIFs on top of every transaction from A to Bs.
• 4:25
  Justin Wang: But again, Taiwan is a restricted currency nation.
• 4:28
  Justin Wang: It's not that simple.
• 4:29
  Dante Reminick: What does that mean, real quick?
• 4:30
  Justin Wang: So every com every enterprise is every company, there's a capacity of receiving money from external uh countries.
• 4:37
  Justin Wang: So let's say you're you're you're trading at a billion dollars annually, the government will give you roughly about a couple million dollars extra of uh trading trading impact that allows you to receive more good uh USDs on outside of uh Taiwan.
• 4:49
  Justin Wang: So, like I said, Korea and Japan, Taiwan, all these eight pack nations are restricted currency nations.
• 4:55
  Justin Wang: It's not that simple that you want to pay like a billion dollar USD from Brazil to Taiwan and then people can accept it.
• 5:01
  Justin Wang: So, like I said, the way we we look at stable coins are a lot different than a lot of people that are which are attending this conference.
• 5:08
  Justin Wang: We we first we we want to do the B2B payment, we got rejected by the banks.
• 5:12
  Justin Wang: It's like what you are thinking, what you're doing is completely illegal.
• 5:15
  Justin Wang: And then we we quickly pivot to infrastructure operating systems where we actually enable banks to become uh exchange.
• 5:22
  Justin Wang: As in like Taiwan next year, we are gonna bypass all these virtual asset ads where uh where all the banks can do what exchange does custodian, offer-on-rents, good exchanges.
• 5:33
  Justin Wang: So the way I look at Asia banks in the next two, three years is in terms of facing stable coins, is that there are gonna be overtaking all these unregulated exchanges, especially uh the one the one in the AIPAC nations.
• 5:45
  Justin Wang: And if that time comes, a lot of enterprises, if they want to, if they work on the top stablecoin, they will go to the banks instead of going for unregulated exchanges.
• 5:54
  Dante Reminick: Yeah.
• 5:54
  Dante Reminick: Talk to me about the role that stable coins has.
• 5:56
  Dante Reminick: I mean, obviously the US is one of the one of, if not the biggest spender on the world of AI infrastructure.
• 6:01
  Dante Reminick: Are stable coins needed for every single flow?
• 6:05
  Dante Reminick: Or is the financial infrastructure for very, very tight and important quarters like US to Taiwan and back and forth, is that already established, right?
• 6:12
  Dante Reminick: Can US companies trade with Taiwanese companies without the use of stable coins?
• 6:16
  Dante Reminick: Or is there a world in which stable coins dominate these types of international flows because they're, you know, at cliche better, faster, cheaper?
• 6:24
  Justin Wang: Yeah, so for the last three decades, Taiwan has been one of the largest OBU account holders for JP Morgan Morgan Standees, obviously, due to decades of manufacturing goods and services from the last few uh you can name it.
• 6:36
  Justin Wang: So until recently, there has been an ongoing discussion for a lot of banks in Taiwan enterprises as well.
• 6:41
  Justin Wang: So Taiwan is the sixth largest US debt holders, and then we are the third largest trading partner to the US.
• 6:47
  Justin Wang: If Genius Ad were gonna get passed, how would that impact Taiwan as a nation, as a country?
• 6:52
  Justin Wang: So as a country of 24 million population uh people on the continents, we started thinking how much B2B payments can be actually paid with stable coins.
• 7:01
  Justin Wang: And frankly speaking, for the last six months, my answer is no.
• 7:04
  Justin Wang: I don't think these suppliers will actually need stablecoins to settles.
• 7:07
  Justin Wang: Because you have to we have to know all these manufacturers they have credit lines.
• 7:11
  Justin Wang: Credit line means that you can pay within 30 days, 90 days, 180 days, or even 364 days.
• 7:16
  Justin Wang: And then to be able to tell you guys if you want to buy goods and services from TSMC, you have to pay two and a half years or three years ahead of time.
• 7:24
  Dante Reminick: Yeah.
• 7:25
  Justin Wang: So whether is T plus 0, T plus 20, T plus 100, T plus two years.
• 7:29
  Justin Wang: Two years.
• 7:30
  Justin Wang: It doesn't really matter.
• 7:31
  Justin Wang: In a way, that how these B2B payments will not affect the way we produce goods, manufacture goods.
• 7:37
  Dante Reminick: Interesting.
• 7:37
  Dante Reminick: I think it's also interesting.
• 7:39
  Dante Reminick: You mentioned that Taiwan is, you know, one of the top ten holders of US debt.
• 7:43
  Dante Reminick: I think one of the reasons that Americans are really, really excited about stable coins is because you look at a company like Tether, and Tether is the 17th largest holder of US debt behind most US allies.
• 7:54
  Dante Reminick: And so I think that, you know, to get Americans excited about this, being able to tout that not only are you doing trade with a country that holds a lot of US debt, but you're doing it with a mechanism that also is a primary contributor to holding US debt, I think is, at least when I talk to people about this, something that gets them really, really excited.
• 8:12
  Dante Reminick: But to your point, it's not always needed, right?
• 8:15
  Dante Reminick: So it seems like in really, really tight corridors where there's a lot of financial infrastructure built out, the US, Taiwan being one of them, stable coins aren't really needed.
• 8:23
  Dante Reminick: Where are stable coins needed?
• 8:25
  Dante Reminick: You mentioned LATAM, you mentioned some places in Africa.
• 8:28
  Dante Reminick: Why are stable coins needed for those routes?
• 8:31
  Justin Wang: Well, you have inflationary nations.
• 8:33
  Justin Wang: If your own current nation, national currencies against USDs are going through high inflations, you're likely going to want to host the USD stable coin, right?
• 8:41
  Justin Wang: But the cases where Taiwan as a nation, we don't suffer inflation against USD.
• 8:46
  Justin Wang: In fact, on the average of loss tickets, we go from 0.3 to 0.0.8 inflations against USD.
• 8:53
  Justin Wang: Obviously, every inches of fluctuation of new Taiwan dollar against USD, you're literally looking at the billion dollar losses from these manufacturers.
• 9:01
  Dante Reminick: Absolutely.
• 9:02
  Justin Wang: So obviously, as a central banks in Taiwan, they're they want to tighten out the fluctuation of volatility between all these two nation currencies.
• 9:10
  Justin Wang: But for the last three, four months, we're invested by all these area suppression companies.
• 9:14
  Justin Wang: There's few reasons why they want to invest us.
• 9:17
  Justin Wang: We want to export new forms of money movements.
• 9:20
  Justin Wang: So I can say this that I think in the future of AIPC devices, 60-70% of the AI devices will be manufactured in Taiwan.
• 9:28
  Justin Wang: And every device requires compute, inference, all these infrastructure payment tools.
• 9:32
  Justin Wang: If a Taiwanese company sells AIPC to Poland, to Ukraine, this is for example, Eastern Europe, all these devices will require them to pay with compute, right?
• 9:42
  Justin Wang: So start, and a lot of these Taiwan enterprises start asking themselves, okay, if this USC stablecoins we're gonna get bypassed all these regulations, why can't we leverage on top of it?
• 9:51
  Justin Wang: Because for the last decade or two, a lot of these Taiwanese companies, they're paying roughly about 47% of the local RTP transaction through Europe or Latin America's world, all these different nations.
• 10:02
  Justin Wang: So if this is something that we're actually in discussion right now.
• 10:05
  Justin Wang: So if you pay stable coin, you can you can get two, three percent cheaper on your compute.
• 10:10
  Justin Wang: It's possible because essentially all these companies don't have they don't they don't have to suffer what pay the local RTP reels.
• 10:16
  Justin Wang: So I think this is one of the alternatives that all these Chinese companies, especially AI device manufacturers, are looking into exploring the use cases.
• 10:23
  Dante Reminick: We hear a lot of talk in the intersection of stablecoins and AI about tokenized compute, right?
• 10:29
  Dante Reminick: Or bringing compute as a commodity on chain.
• 10:32
  Dante Reminick: What are your thoughts on that?
• 10:34
  Justin Wang: Well, I think we're still early for that.
• 10:36
  Justin Wang: Absolutely.
• 10:36
  Justin Wang: Um obviously to able to be able to have a tokenized uh computer markets, you you need to have infrastructure, right?
• 10:43
  Justin Wang: So they're still pretty fragmented in terms of data, in terms of data centers right now.
• 10:47
  Justin Wang: We have a lack of electricity and then clean waters to st be to be able to sustain all these hyperscalar or neo-cloud providers and across the world.
• 10:55
  Justin Wang: So before that, I I really don't think how we're gonna be able to make this computer market tangible as a tradable to all these tokenized uh assets on a blockchain level.
• 11:05
  Justin Wang: So I think we're still very early for that.
• 11:07
  Justin Wang: I uh ever since I started working on all these banks uh in Asia, APAC Nation, I've become overly conservative in the way, in a good way that I know what is real, what's gonna happen in the future.
• 11:16
  Justin Wang: So uh in terms of compute market, definitely somebody's gonna wrap that, somebody's gonna tokenize compute, and then somebody's gonna trade with it.
• 11:23
  Justin Wang: That just has always been the way how blockchain traders worked.
• 11:25
  Justin Wang: So if that were happens, I'm looking forward to the the day it comes.
• 11:30
  Dante Reminick: Yeah, man, I I think it's good for you too, as someone who rests in the intersection of stable coins and AI, because if tokenized compute is brought on chain, it means that the barriers between that tokenized compute and stable coins become far less than it does between fiat dollars and and standard compute.
• 11:45
  Dante Reminick: And if you own that intersection between, which you guys are building out the infrastructure for, you're in a much better position.
• 11:51
  Dante Reminick: I want to talk again a little bit more about the intersection between standard banks and stable coins.
• 11:57
  Dante Reminick: You went to these banks initially, they're like, don't build a B2B product.
• 12:00
  Dante Reminick: Don't build, don't do B2B payments.
• 12:01
  Dante Reminick: And so you pivoted to building out this orchestration layer, or sorry, the the operational layer.
• 12:06
  Dante Reminick: Why is that so hard?
• 12:07
  Dante Reminick: Why is that impossible for banks to do on their own?
• 12:09
  Dante Reminick: Why do they lean on you to make that happen?
• 12:12
  Justin Wang: Well, first, banks doesn't operate like exchanges.
• 12:15
  Justin Wang: So, I mean, if obviously you guys know Firebox, Bitcoin, all these custodian providers.
• 12:19
  Justin Wang: You can't just throw a custodian to the banks and expect them to operate like exchanges does, right?
• 12:23
  Justin Wang: Well, obviously, banks they don't want order books.
• 12:26
  Justin Wang: They don't want all the trading engine that actually facilitate Bitcoin trading or online offerings.
• 12:30
  Justin Wang: What I care, I think what every bank cares, especially in the APAC region in Japan, Taiwan, that we haven't been in contact with, is enterprises as a client.
• 12:37
  Justin Wang: So they don't want they don't want to lose enterprises to clients over over stable coins.
• 12:42
  Justin Wang: So I think for the next two, three years, an adoption will come where a lot of these Asia APAC banks will have for, I won't say force.
• 12:49
  Justin Wang: They're gonna be matching toward adoptions where are gonna enable stablecoin custodians on and off runs for these retail enterprises clients.
• 12:57
  Justin Wang: And by that time comes, I believe all these stablecoin use cases will come out.
• 13:02
  Justin Wang: Because enterprises, especially the one in Asia, they're overly conservative in the way that they will not kick off innovation unless banks enabled it.
• 13:10
  Justin Wang: So if that day comes, I think we're gonna see a lot of interesting cases, especially the company market inference models.
• 13:15
  Justin Wang: Uh, like I said, out of uh 10 data centers that is being built in the US and for the next two, three years, six or five or six of them are built by Twinnies, operators, chips, manufacturers, or equipment producers.
• 13:26
  Justin Wang: So if they were if they were gonna rent out to hyperscalers on all these neo car providers, there's some forms of money movement that they can facilitate leverage on top of stable coins.
• 13:35
  Justin Wang: Interesting.
• 13:36
  Dante Reminick: When you see stable coins being used in this context, is there a specific stablecoin?
• 13:42
  Dante Reminick: Is there a specific chain that dominates?
• 13:45
  Justin Wang: Not really.
• 13:45
  Justin Wang: But as far as we've seen, TRCs, all these old Ethereum chains are they having always been used by a lot of retail and enterprises across Asia.
• 13:55
  Justin Wang: Trons, obviously, you guys know, but I think enterprises, they don't care which chains.
• 14:00
  Justin Wang: So if my my supplier wants to pay a million USD COT to my bank accounts, I don't care.
• 14:06
  Justin Wang: I just want to see USD next day.
• 14:07
  Dante Reminick: And is that just because you're off-ramping it immediately and banks will enable that.
• 14:11
  Justin Wang: So using our assistance.
• 14:13
  Justin Wang: So I I think interestingly speaking, I think what stablecoins could become the next three to five years would become the infrastructure layers.
• 14:20
  Justin Wang: I don't think no company would name their company as a stablecoin companies.
• 14:24
  Dante Reminick: Yeah.
• 14:24
  Dante Reminick: Because you're essentially just the willingness of these institutions to accept stable coins and to work with you is purely by demand.
• 14:32
  Dante Reminick: They have people coming to them saying, I want to use stable coins to pay for this.
• 14:36
  Dante Reminick: And so clearly there are people adopting stable coins on whatever chain it might be, whatever stablecoin it might be.
• 14:42
  Dante Reminick: I, and I'm curious to get your thoughts.
• 14:44
  Dante Reminick: I see a world in which someone like you know NVIDIA or one of these large providers, DSMC, whatever it might be, builds out maybe their own stable coins so that they can retain the economics around this, or the institutions that are deeply involved in this so that they can retain the economics around this.
• 14:58
  Dante Reminick: And we see a few large organizations in the space playing around with this idea.
• 15:03
  Dante Reminick: Some of it is public information, others is not.
• 15:07
  Dante Reminick: Do you see a world in which these companies really lean into stable coins beyond just, hey, I want to accept it and immediately off-ramp it, but you know, using it as a treasury asset, maybe launching their own, seeing what they can do with yield or things like that?
• 15:20
  Justin Wang: I mean, there has there has always been ongoing discussion with us and then banks, especially our client sides, that what enterprise in the future launch their own version of stable coins, you know, I I look forward to that.
• 15:31
  Justin Wang: If that actually happens, you know, that actually means the major adoptions for stablecoin in general.
• 15:35
  Justin Wang: But what I'm seeing right now, the way we look at stable coins has always limited to B2B payments, transfer goods and services.
• 15:42
  Justin Wang: But uh, frankly speaking, last lot I think it's last month, one of the banks of our clients asked us that I mean, invoice invoice financing has always been one of the biggest uh financial sectors in Taiwan.
• 15:54
  Justin Wang: Yeah.
• 15:54
  Justin Wang: Obviously, you know the exporting number.
• 15:56
  Justin Wang: If you export more goods and services, you probably have to borrow more money from the banks, right?
• 16:01
  Justin Wang: So previously they always borrowed USDs from JPM Work and Morgan Standing in Taiwan.
• 16:06
  Justin Wang: And then they start asking us that can you guys find out the rates for USDC and USDT?
• 16:11
  Justin Wang: To lend USDC?
• 16:12
  Justin Wang: Yeah.
• 16:13
  Justin Wang: So I think the source of USD has been predominantly by JPM Work and Morgan Standing, all these uh well, Wells Fargo's, all these company uh banks in Taiwan.
• 16:22
  Justin Wang: And I was in shock that there's actually a bank asking us, can you guys consult with Tether and Circle asking how much rate you're offering to get USD?
• 16:32
  Justin Wang: And then that blew my mind in the way that stablecoin as a real, as a payment methods, people are actually considering instead of like going through all these uh corresponding banks or foreign banks that are usually based in Taiwan.
• 16:43
  Dante Reminick: That's really, really fascinating.
• 16:45
  Dante Reminick: And do you think it's the same people that want to pay with stable coins that want to receive uh credit in stable coins?
• 16:51
  Dante Reminick: Or do you think that there's a world in which you know someone who pays in fiat still wants credit stables?
• 16:58
  Justin Wang: Great questions.
• 16:58
  Justin Wang: So if eight banks in Taiwan borrow USD stable coins from uh one of the companies that's lower rate than World's Fargo, JP Morgan's, they're gonna the moment they get USD T or C or any version of it, they will offer them to USD and then lend the money out to Taiwanese Taiwan AI supplier.
• 17:17
  Dante Reminick: Locally.
• 17:17
  Justin Wang: Locally.
• 17:18
  Justin Wang: Okay.
• 17:18
  Justin Wang: So I think it has been commonly used, right?
• 17:21
  Justin Wang: A lot of banks in Taiwan they borrow US JPY, Japanese yens from all these Japanese banks that are based in Taiwan.
• 17:26
  Justin Wang: Same thing goes to USD as well.
• 17:28
  Justin Wang: If traditionally they have to borrow money from JP Morgan Morgan Stanley or Wells Fargo, now they can actually borrow from issuer of stable coins that offers lower rates.
• 17:36
  Justin Wang: So imagine that can drastically improve by five to ten percent.
• 17:40
  Justin Wang: I mean, you're look essentially looking at a $364 billion trading value between Taiwan and China, Taiwan and US.
• 17:45
  Justin Wang: Can you say that number one more time?
• 17:46
  Justin Wang: 374 billion.
• 17:48
  Justin Wang: I think I think by the end of this year, we essentially are on track to be $360 billion to $375 billion.
• 17:54
  Justin Wang: Wow.
• 17:55
  Justin Wang: That's amazing.
• 17:55
  Justin Wang: Between US and Taiwan.
• 17:57
  Justin Wang: So imagine just that the supply chain finance can drastically improve five to ten percent on the money productivities.
• 18:04
  Justin Wang: So I think the way USC stable the usage of stable coins will apply differently for different nations.
• 18:09
  Justin Wang: I think to be able to fully apply to Taiwan, I think the use case will be very different than unlike to Lautin, Brazil's, or Africa, all these different nations.
• 18:18
  Justin Wang: Maybe supply chain finance could be one of the angles where all these stablecoin issuers come into Taiwan, they want to let out as much USD as possible and then get the yield out of this.
• 18:28
  Justin Wang: So that is one of the interesting cases that I've seen recently.
• 18:31
  Dante Reminick: Let's talk supply chain.
• 18:32
  Dante Reminick: You guys right now are focused at one spot in that supply chain.
• 18:36
  Dante Reminick: How does the buyer of chips or of an AI product get it to the company who manufactures it?
• 18:42
  Dante Reminick: Right.
• 18:42
  Dante Reminick: There's other points in that supply chain that I think stablecoins could be really beneficial, whether it's, you know, paying shippers, paying uh, you know, vendors, whatever it might be.
• 18:52
  Dante Reminick: How do you guys think about going and expanding throughout the AI supply chain?
• 18:57
  Justin Wang: So our job is not to enable B2B payments.
• 19:00
  Justin Wang: I mean, we're we're, like I said, restricted currency nations.
• 19:03
  Justin Wang: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:04
  Justin Wang: So every dollar that comes to Taiwan has to be monetized and due diligence through all these central banking in Taiwan.
• 19:09
  Justin Wang: What we're trying to do is creating use cases on top of stable coins where, I mean, imagine out of AI, 10 AI PCs that are gonna be shipping and sell in the US, or six or seven of them are gonna be manufactured in Taiwan.
• 19:21
  Justin Wang: And then within all these AIPCs, there they're gonna be a default stablecoin wallets enable you to buy inference, to consume computes.
• 19:30
  Justin Wang: The way we look at money cycles for these AI infra payments instead of AI editing payments are gonna be revolutionary in a way that the day, let's say, for example, Gigabyte received uh it uses $10 USDC, next day it shows up on the Taiwanese bank account.
• 19:45
  Justin Wang: And then they could use that money, reinvest to their manufacturers or or supply chains, uh you can name it, or produce or build more data centers, essentially.
• 19:55
  Dante Reminick: Do you see the people who want to use stable coins view USDC and USDT as a dollar?
• 20:01
  Dante Reminick: Or do they view it as just a mechanism to be able to send money overseas efficiently?
• 20:07
  Dante Reminick: Like I'm an American.
• 20:09
  Dante Reminick: When I think about USDT and USDC, I hear USD, right?
• 20:12
  Dante Reminick: I see that as a as a you know US currency, or you know, in this case, US debt.
• 20:18
  Dante Reminick: But I think a lot of the world doesn't necessarily associate it with, hey, the US is involved in my transaction in some way, shape, or form.
• 20:25
  Dante Reminick: They just want the money to get there.
• 20:26
  Dante Reminick: How do you think these people view the stable coin, USD or US US, sorry, USDC or USDT in relation to the US?
• 20:33
  Justin Wang: Well, first, we're not an anti-dollar nation.
• 20:36
  Justin Wang: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:37
  Justin Wang: That's what I'm saying.
• 20:38
  Justin Wang: Absolutely.
• 20:38
  Justin Wang: So we, I mean, 95% of trading volumes happens on USD pairs.
• 20:43
  Justin Wang: So even between Japan and Taiwan or Korea and Taiwan, everything happens on USD.
• 20:48
  Justin Wang: USD as well, actually.
• 20:49
  Justin Wang: So if Genius at we're we're gonna get past anytime soon, I think it will forces all these nations to be able to adapt to stable coins and asking and sell, what can I do with it?
• 21:00
  Justin Wang: So again, it it is already pretty handy and easy to for us to wire money from Taiwan to US or US to Taiwan.
• 21:08
  Justin Wang: But the question is, can we make it better?
• 21:10
  Justin Wang: Can we make it more productive?
• 21:11
  Dante Reminick: And can you expand that geography?
• 21:13
  Dante Reminick: Like to your point, I think the US and Taiwan have some pretty good banking infrastructure already, right?
• 21:17
  Dante Reminick: They need to.
• 21:18
  Justin Wang: Yeah, so I mean, again, like I said, Taiwan produced goods, manufactured goods to across the world, it's not only US.
• 21:25
  Justin Wang: Out of 10 AIPCs in the future, six of them or seven of them will be produced, manufactured by Taiwanese companies.
• 21:30
  Justin Wang: If they want to tackle the global audience in terms of payment methods, right next to credit card checkout, there's gonna be stable coins.
• 21:36
  Dante Reminick: Yes.
• 21:37
  Justin Wang: So the way I look at stable coins would become a strong payment method alongside where a lot of these enterprises will leverage so that they can pay lower fees compared to RTP Rails from all these different nations.
• 21:48
  Justin Wang: I mean, if there's a hundred million dollars trading volume, I mean buying volumes, you're saving a couple percent.
• 21:54
  Justin Wang: Essentially, you're adding a couple more million dollars to your balance sheet as a list of companies.
• 21:58
  Dante Reminick: Couple percent adds up when we're talking about.
• 21:59
  Dante Reminick: Talking about 360 billion or whatever number you gave me before.
• 22:04
  Justin Wang: I think the BDB sector for Taiwan, Taiwan and US are definitely not as strong as the two as other cases compared to Africa or Latin America's, but the interesting use case is something that we're constantly explore with the companies.
• 22:17
  Dante Reminick: What do Taiwanese AI companies and Taiwanese financial institutions that deal with these AI companies?
• 22:23
  Dante Reminick: What do they get right about stable coins when you walk into a room with them?
• 22:26
  Dante Reminick: And what do they get wrong about stable coins when you walk into a room with them?
• 22:30
  Justin Wang: Well, we we have pitched over 30 plus enterprises, 10 plus different banks.
• 22:35
  Justin Wang: Banks are very open, as in like they know it's inevitable in a way that this is gonna get passed one way or the others.
• 22:41
  Justin Wang: But enterprises are overly conservative.
• 22:44
  Justin Wang: You know, I think I think the way we look at Asia, especially APAC enterprises, their CFO department, financial department, they are hired to be conservative.
• 22:52
  Dante Reminick: Yes.
• 22:53
  Justin Wang: I don't think there's gonna be a a day where all these CFOs are like, hey, let's use stable coins because it's legal right now.
• 22:59
  Dante Reminick: Yeah.
• 23:00
  Justin Wang: So it would definitely take time to educate and then really cultivate the notions of this new money movements for these enterprises.
• 23:07
  Justin Wang: But I think what Capital Air has done very well for the last few months for all these air supply chain companies in Taiwan is that we're we're essentially educating them that the future of payments, not only largely depending on credit card or these uh transaction portals, you guys can actually leverage stablecoin, which is free.
• 23:25
  Dante Reminick: Yeah.
• 23:25
  Justin Wang: You don't have to settle with this Visa MasterCard or all these local RTP rail.
• 23:29
  Justin Wang: Even ACH in the US charge uh quite a few fee, quite quite a bit, quite a few bips, actually, compared to a lot of enterprises overseas.
• 23:36
  Justin Wang: So I don't think stablecoins are gonna hear it's it's gonna overtake all these credit card or fiat transfers, but it will become one of the strongest methods for all these enterprises.
• 23:47
  Dante Reminick: I agree.
• 23:47
  Dante Reminick: I think a lot of the times when people talk about AI, they talk about you know jumping into a rapidly growing business and they view it as a bubble.
• 23:55
  Dante Reminick: But the way I see it is like if you ask yourself not what's gonna change in 10 years and build for it, but what's not going to change in 10 years?
• 24:04
  Dante Reminick: What's not going to change in 10 years is that AI will get better and that people will want that AI cheaper.
• 24:10
  Justin Wang: Yeah.
• 24:11
  Dante Reminick: And I think that's exactly what you guys are building for.
• 24:14
  Dante Reminick: Is how can I use more AI and how can I get that compute or get the infrastructure that I need in the cheapest way possible?
• 24:21
  Dante Reminick: Is that fair?
• 24:22
  Justin Wang: Yeah.
• 24:23
  Justin Wang: Well, if I mean, if you look at an exporting number between Taiwan and US, $300 over a billion dollars, if you can improve the money movement by just by a few percent, essentially you're looking at the largest chunk of uh savings or reinvesting opportunities for these enterprises.
• 24:38
  Justin Wang: But again, I think we we come from Asia, like Taiwan, where we're fully based in Taipei.
• 24:43
  Justin Wang: We're more of exploring use cases rather than relying on B2B payment sectors.
• 24:47
  Justin Wang: Because uh every dollar, like I said, every dollar that flows to Taiwan will be monetized by the central bank of Taiwan as well.
• 24:54
  Justin Wang: So hopefully we could give out more good news.
• 24:56
  Justin Wang: Yeah.
• 24:56
  Justin Wang: I think by next year, I don't wanna blush too much on this.
• 25:00
  Justin Wang: I think you guys know Company Tex, largest AI expos in the entire planet, will happen next year in type 8.
• 25:07
  Dante Reminick: Amazing.
• 25:07
  Justin Wang: We are gonna announce something extraordinary with stable coins.
• 25:10
  Dante Reminick: I love that.
• 25:11
  Justin Wang: So the way you look at payments is gonna change.
• 25:13
  Justin Wang: The way we use money is gonna change as well.
• 25:15
  Dante Reminick: Listen, let's let's run this back next year and we'll we'll do the big announcement together.
• 25:20
  Dante Reminick: So very, very much appreciate you coming on.
• 25:23
  Dante Reminick: What do you want to leave people with out here?
• 25:25
  Dante Reminick: What should they know about Capital Layer that they don't already?
• 25:27
  Justin Wang: Yeah, well, we're on a track to work with quite a few data centers that already are gonna be built by Taiwanese suppliers.
• 25:34
  Justin Wang: And then once these neo-clouds providers are enabling stablecoins as a payment methods, we can re-implement implement it into AI device, which is our investors, big up by Assus, Acer, will penetrate all these AI device producers.
• 25:48
  Justin Wang: There's gonna be quite interesting collaboration because right now every device has default wallets.
• 25:53
  Justin Wang: Yeah, and then default wallet will have stablecoin methods and credit cards.
• 25:56
  Justin Wang: Imagine how many people in Latin Americas or Africa start paying, start consuming computes, all these AI uh Taiwanese data centers using stable coins.
• 26:05
  Dante Reminick: Yeah.
• 26:05
  Justin Wang: So I think that's gonna be exciting to see.
• 26:08
  Dante Reminick: Amazing.
• 26:08
  Dante Reminick: Thank you so much for coming on.
• 26:10
  Dante Reminick: You and I have about three more hours of questions and answers that I want to throw at you, but we're out of time.
• 26:15
  Dante Reminick: Justin, thank you.
• 26:16
  Dante Reminick: Thank you so much for coming.
• 26:17
  Dante Reminick: I appreciate you answering my barrage of questions.
• 26:20
  Dante Reminick: And like I said, we're gonna we're gonna do this again in a year and catch back up.
• 26:23
  Justin Wang: I'll see you in Singapore.
• 26:24
  Dante Reminick: Awesome.
• 26:25
  Dante Reminick: Love it.