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GTA 6 reveal causes Xbox and PlayStation sales to jump by a third · The Game Business Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This week console sales spike on GTA 6 reveal and we chat to Nuzu about the future
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: of the video game business.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to The Game Business Show.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This week's edition is once again sponsored by Keywords Studios.
• 0:16
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• 0:19
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• 0:22
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• 0:23
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• 0:57
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• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: that came out with this show.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of which let's get back to it and let's talk about Grand Theft Auto 6.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: The timing of the Netflix extended look meant we didn't get to do that last week
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: but also yeah we love having some data so it was worth waiting for but before I go
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: into some numbers I managed to catch it as it went out during Gamescom but
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: because I was in Cologne it was on a phone In a restaurant.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I experienced it, I imagine, just as Rockstar imagined I should.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I did watch the whole thing late that night.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I obviously thought it looked stunning.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm no critic, but I was actually out with one of the industry's most prominent journalists.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he involuntarily went,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: wow, during the skydiving scene, which I think summed it up a little bit.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now immediately after it went out,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: or at least around when it went out,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was on multiple mainstream channels talking about it.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was on BBC Breakfast, BBC Radio 5, I was on CNBC.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found fascinating is that these media outlets were as interested in
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: the Netflix partnership as they were the game itself.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Which goes to show Rockstar's ability to create stories around its game.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I really think the Netflix partnership worked.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the numbers do back that up.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So Netflix revealed that GTA 6 Extended Look attracted 31.1 million views.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now the way Netflix does views is it takes the total hours divided by the total runtime.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was the number one English language movie in 87 of the 93.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's well ahead of the new film, The Whisper Man.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that number is up until Sunday just gone.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's been bigger Netflix things, Stranger Things is bigger.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously Netflix only had an exclusive on this for six hours.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was then up on YouTube after that.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube by comparison is on 17 million.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now they count views very, very differently.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously the YouTube version is all over.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: other media channels,
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: all the IGN's got a version of GTA, GameSpot's got a version of the GTA video.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a like for like comparison.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, that's obviously very big.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of pre-orders, it's a little bit early.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Census Tower has done some early calculations and says pre-orders are up 572% over two days.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is compared to the two-day average during the previous 30 days.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it's very rough right now.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: New Zoo, which also tracks pre-orders, they don't have their latest figures yet.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: They'll be coming on the show in a minute, though, to talk about GTA 6.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: They'll share the numbers up until end of July.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: One of the One of the big questions around GTA 6 is
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: whether it will materially impact sales of PlayStation and Xbox,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: or PlayStation 5 in particular,
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: and Xbox Series X and S. Now, GTA 6 is a console exclusive.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not on PC, so it will likely attract the attention of new and lapsed console players.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: However,
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: we're also seeing unprecedented pricing of those games consoles due to
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: the rising component costs.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about it every week on the show, pretty much.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: How well, how much of an impact can GTA 6 have to sort of compensate for that?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I have managed to get some early data for the UK market.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nielsen IQ,
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: which used to be called GFK,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: used to be called ChartTrack, used to go right back in time, it was called Gallup.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And they've been tracking console sales in the UK since the 1990s.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: They get the data directly from the retailers, so it's real data.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: They tell us that after the GTA 6 reveal last week,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: so their week on week sales of PS5 jumped 33%,
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: and meanwhile Xbox Series X and S sales jumped 34%.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now the numbers are,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: some of the numbers are quite low for games consoles,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: but that's obviously a decent jump.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly, and this is an aside, Nintendo Switch 2 sales also rise by about a third.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: GTA 6 is not on Switch 2, of course, but Nintendo did announce a price increase on the console.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's going up by £50 in the UK.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that comes into effect this week.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there'll be people getting their console in before the prices go up.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why that had a good week as well.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So what can we conclude from those figures?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, clearly GTA 6 is going to have a positive impact on console sales.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not all going to be concentrated around November 19th.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Either people will be picking up the machines ahead of release.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: But just how big will the impact be?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Will we see a surge that it will,
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: that it will positively impact the install base to such an extent
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: that other publishers, developers and games will also see a strong uptick?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Will it lift all ships?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's not all about console sales either.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's also people who,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: have a PS5 or an Xbox and maybe it's gathering a bit of dust
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: or they don't play it very often.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is an opportunity to re-engage those customers.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: But the data we're seeing is positive.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are big upticks.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: These are good numbers.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: But it's extremely early days.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: My official position, if anyone asks me, is I'm cautiously optimistic.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it will cause a surge in sales.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot of variables involved.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right, that's enough of that,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: or rather it isn't actually,
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: because I'm about to welcome someone that's been doing a lot of analysis on GTA 6.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: His name is Ronan Patrick,
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: he's a management consultant at Newzoo,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: and Newzoo just put out his global games market report.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: In that report,
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: it estimates The global games market will rise 6.1% to $213.9 million this year.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that spending is coming out of China and the US.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: The bulk of the money will, of course, be mobile.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: It represents $121.1 billion in revenue, so nearly 60% really, between 55% and 60%.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: It estimates that console revenue will rise 22% to $46.9 million.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's due to the Switch 2.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: It will have a full year.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: GTA 6 is coming out.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And there's the rising prices as well.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: The consoles just cost more, so they make more revenue on an individual basis.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, GTA 6 is going to take full game spending to 17.5%.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's the biggest growth area for the year.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: NewZoo does expect player growth to slow to 3.2%,
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: that's a compound annual growth rate to 2029,
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: which is down on the 4.4% we've seen over the last year.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that means there's a lot more focus on making more money out of customers
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: and not just expecting the industry just to grow by the sheer number
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: of new people coming in.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: There are a bunch of stats in this report,
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: but I wanted to dive into a few points with Ronan,
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: including the impact of GTA 6,
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: where the growth areas are and what competitive areas Can learn from it.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: We've also got this continued rise of franchises and sequels.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big thing for the New Zoo report.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to ask about that as well,
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: and a few classic game business topics that you would have heard me talk about
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: before.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go to it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Here's New Zoo's Ronan Patrick.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Ronan.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure to be here.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: We were supposed to meet up at Gamescom, but Gamescom got in the way.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: How was it for you?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was, well, tremendously busy.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: I find Gamescom a very funny event in that there's very few other places in
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: the world that you'll have a combination of elderly men with neckbeards and,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know, teenage girls dressed out in outfits all in one place.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's certainly an interesting one.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: I go to a lot of the consumerist shows and I do get a little bit out of it,
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: but Gamescom I don't think get anything.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is an event I get more out of than Gamescom for my type of Journalism.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure if you're a tech journalist,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: GDC or CS has more, but I always find it brilliant, but I kept it relatively tight.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I came in Tuesday night and left Friday afternoon and I don't think I had a moment spare.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was, um, I'm still tired now.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: You could probably hear it in my voice.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: I crashed the days after I was getting like 12 hours of sleep at night after it's,
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: it's a really, yeah, it's a, it's a draining event, back to back meetings.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have kids, so I didn't get that and have that pleasure.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find anything noteworthy?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Did anything stand out for you that you were like, oh, that's...
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Mainly conversations.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: it's such an interesting event because you get a whirlwind of hearing what's kind
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: of going on in the industry and hearing what people are up to.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I heard a bunch of interesting approaches and...
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously industry is in an interesting place.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we'll get to talking about that.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So hearing about all the ways in which people were adapting to that was interesting.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: What I find really fascinating about that is,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: we haven't actually gone live with it by the time we're doing this recording,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: but I've done a big interview with CD Projekt, and they sew the AAA model, right?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: They don't think too much about cost.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they do worry a bit,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: but it's not the number one thing they worry about, and it works for them, right?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm talking to an indie,
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: and they're going down the route of a AA company and down the route
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: of speeding up development, a lot more cost-driven development.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, it is a real...
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Fascination to see so many different segments of the market,
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: even doing the same sort of games,
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: have a completely different strategies to deal with the way
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: the industry is reacting.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, yes, I'm sure we will talk about it.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, I've noted the sheer number of Chinese companies and Korean companies.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: That were all across the event,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: which I thought was Noteworthy,
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: although it is more important to remember,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: that Tokyo Game Show,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Chinese companies often go there in quite a big number and they're not expected
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: to this year.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's going to be quieter because of political tensions.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so Maybe some of it's a reallocation of budget,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: but obviously you can see what the market's doing.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess that's part of your report, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you did this big report that you put out,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: and the industry's, you know, I think it's 6.1% the report suggests growth, right?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not everywhere that's growing 6.1%.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, not at all.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: The reaction to the report, though, seems strong.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Anything surprise you about it?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Reaction to it?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think the reaction was fairly...
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think the industry has recalibrated and reaccepted the position where it's in,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: in that most people that I've seen reacted to it accept that this is positive news,
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: but this is positive news in the context of a difficult period that
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: the industry has gone forward because...
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at the end of the day,
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: as I've seen some people react to,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know, 6% overall, when you take out inflation, that looks less impressive.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's part of a bigger story, right,
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: which is from 2021 to 2024,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: the industry It was completely flat,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: but consumer prices rose by like 23% during that period.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And those are costs that the games industry and its consumers are paying.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a lot of the kicker,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: which So yes, grew 12% last year, 2025, and then grew, we expect it to grow 6%.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: But if you put that in real terms,
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: we expect the industry to still be down 13% on 2021 in real terms.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of the struggle of the industry is that
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: the top line can grow,
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: but the costs side of it is something we are still grappling with.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I think I see Emmanuel mention it was that innovation is key.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And every time I speak to analysts, that seems to be the thing.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's basically, look, game makers, do something we can't predict.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that'll change these outlooks and these predictions.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's an interesting thought,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: you know, an artistic industry, get back to, you know, doing what you do with art.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a tough one because obviously the onus on the,
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: we are ultimately in the entertainment space and we have to surprise and delight.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other hand,
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: there is a question of what consumers often want are sequels,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: franchises and existing titles.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, of course.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've done a fair bit of work on this.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: People haven't already always liked me pointing this out,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: but it's important to point out,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: which is to say,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: if you look at the share of revenue that goes to new titles,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: excluding a Franchises, sequels, etc.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: On console, it's around 6% to 7%.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then on PC, it's around 10% to 17%.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So a bit higher.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: But then within that,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: you basically have a handful of IPs like Cyberpunk,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: like Hogwarts Legacy, like Ark Raiders, often big budgets.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: They take that so...
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a difficulty in that while that remains true and
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: while other factors remain true,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: we're often going to see publishers taking a very defensive stance,
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: which is to reinvest around their core IPs and franchises.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: What I will say to that though is doing a core IP does not mean lack of innovation.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think about what drove the Switch was the Zelda game.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then tickling.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that was, but it was the most, it was the most, it was a complete departure for Zelda.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously they lean on the franchise and it found a much, much bigger audience.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And also I know that we talk about the percentages,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: but I look at, you know, some of the games that have done well.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: This year, like Mecha Chameleon and Crimson Desert and Pragmata.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that those aren't, you know, taking up the lion's share of revenue.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a big,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: they're not big live service games,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: but they have been successful and they're all new IP.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to Xbox while I was at Gamescom and I thought, I said,
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think Fable is an interesting IP because obviously it's an established brand,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: but never really broke above 5 million units.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was never that big of a franchise.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that even though this new game might be in line with what Fable was,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think in this modern industry where everything's so much wider and there's
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: so many more people playing games of different interests
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: where niche games can be still big,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I look at that and think that might be an interesting one.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: But then you've got companies like Focus and all the stuff that they're doing.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm going off all No, no, no.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think the points you're making are really good and I couldn't agree more.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think just because there's a focus on sequels
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: and franchises doesn't mean you don't need to innovate.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like the way I describe it is kind of an Apple model.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Where there's a priority based on capturing existing audience,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: but then try and move them laterally onto different innovative products
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: and new upgrades and et cetera.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you had, I think, John Bellamy on a couple of weeks ago.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was a really interesting one to listen to because he pointed out
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: the Dragon Wilds around 75%.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really good example, right?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's innovation in the sense that Jagex is spreading to console and trying
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: to increase their market share,
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: but it works in large part because they have this base,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: this existing community that they moved over.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the ultimate epitome of...
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Innovate within an existing play pattern is the biggest title that's going
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: to launch this year, right?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like GTA 6.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: From what we've heard, there's going to be tremendous innovation.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's the most obvious one that everyone's talking about with the fact
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: that they're going to integrate the UGC component,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: which currently sits outside in terms of 5M, into the main online experience.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: But from what I've heard,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: there's also going to be kind of DLC In terms of the single player campaign.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting innovation there too.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I do wonder if GTA 6 is going to be the last of its kind.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, don't be wrong.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a rare kind anyway.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard people around that game refer to it as the last of the blockbusters.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Money's no object, 10-year development cycle.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Rockstar probably could do another one,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: but then there's also whether or not there's an appetite of two.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: One of the recurring conversations I've had is this realization from people
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: in their, like,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: 50s that if they keep taking eight years to make a game,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: they're only making one or two left before they retire.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody really wants that.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I do wonder, well,
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: let's talk about GTA 6 then, because that was the big thing that happened last week.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you've been putting some numbers out.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got any latest?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the latest is,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: unfortunately,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: we're recording this at the end of August and the NewsZoo platform takes
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit of time to release the latest.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't have August, but I can give you the June and July numbers.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So for reference,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: this is Nuzu Game Performance Monitor tracks digital spend in the US
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: and five key European markets.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And what we see is that in the final week of June,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: GTA 6 in its The first week of pre-orders brought in $175 million,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: and then in July it brought in $45 million.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So given that 69% of the player base sits in those markets, we're looking
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Looking at roughly, for June and July, around 320 million global.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now those are just like numbers,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: so I'll try and put them in perspective because they are truly staggering.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're not like the crazy numbers that were being...
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think one week after on X,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: but to put that in reference, I looked at nine big recent launches.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I looked at EAFC 26,
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I looked at Battlefield 6,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: I looked at Spider-Man 2,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: and I looked at all nine of those launches,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: and their first week combined, GTA 6 is still four times more than those.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Staggering.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously this doesn't include August,
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: so it doesn't include the actual
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: proper game reveal of the game.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm keen to dig into that once we see there's probably going to be another bump.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you what I find really fascinating was the amount of friends that I had
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: when I,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: from school asking me what's the cheapest way,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: which cheapest way of being able to play GTA 6.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: These people haven't bought a console in two generations.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they're a little shocked at the pricing, but they're still trying to work it out.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's 2x.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you don't, obviously you don't need to pre-order.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I always find this,
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I always find this quite hard to sort of conclude much
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: because it's not like they're going to be in short supply.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that there's going to be a
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, going to run out.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not like going to be stock shortages come November 19th.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So do you think we can conclude much from it?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a really good point.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can look at the existing,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: the pre-order curve that has existed for different categories of titles.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: But the main thing you conclude,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: which is what you've basically already stumbled upon,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: which is that basically the lion's share of purchases come...
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like just before, because why not?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to purchase it now.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: What you register in a pre-order is you get a sense of the size of how big the devoted core is.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to emphasize that,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: so far with the pre-orders or in the first week of those pre-orders,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: 89% of the pre-orders that came in were for the $100 price.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Addition,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: which is really high.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: That will probably come and taper down.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: You probably can expect to drift closer towards 50-50 by launch.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are some pre-order bonuses, isn't there?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like a month's access to GTA Plus and things like that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you can pre-order the day before.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: The $100 thing is really fascinating.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: I actually was quite surprised at what they're sort of,
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: conscious of using certain terms, but locking away for players.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: They do seem to be taking away things that was in the game,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: but specifically locking away behind that $100 edition, which is controversial.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I guess GTA can get away with it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, completely inelastic.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if other players could do that.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like GTA 6 operates in its own paradigm where it just kind of gets to do what it wants.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I think is interesting though is there wasn't a strong tie
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's interesting because that's what's sometimes done.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: That is part of a general acknowledgement on their part that one of
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: the big challenges they're going to have is to migrate the users from GTA 5 Online,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: which there are a staggering number of people playing GTA 5 Online,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: and they need to migrate them over to GTA 6 Online.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that could be part of the reason.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting that that wasn't tied to the premium product or on a higher SKUs.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, DC online is the big question mark, isn't it?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the reasons why I didn't do our chat at Gamescom was
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: because it was before the video and I was like,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what they're doing with online.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we still don't really know.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: We don't.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: What they're doing with online.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is it going to be part of the same package?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is it going to be a separate game?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's such an important question.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I really do think that...
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: It really is the dark horse of this conversation because we can talk as much
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: as we want about premium sales and they obviously matter.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Taito's latest earnings report,
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: 22% of the top line revenue came from premium, 78% came from recurring.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're only talking about 22% of the business here.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously a lot of that is mobile,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: so that's very glib of me to say,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: but the scale, I think people seriously underestimate the scale of GTA Online still.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like 13 years later, It's doing half a billion in terms of a run rate.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: 5M, the UGC modded side experience, it's like the number eight most played game.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's obviously a platform on Steam.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like 180K concurrent.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So the scale of GTA 5 Online 13 years after is tremendous.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And from what I know, The expectations around what GTA 6 Online will do are tremendous.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: From what I know from my financial contacts,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: the markets might be disappointed if it does less than a $2 billion a year run rate.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we will see.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: But we know nothing about it.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll just have to see.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I guess from an industry point of view,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: because the thing is,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: the big topic around this is what impacts it can have on the wider business.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: There is an element of hope that Rockstar can fix everything.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Can you sell us some consoles?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: GTA Online is probably the more harmful component from an industry point of view.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's that element of you get GTA 6, you might get another game.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: You might, if you're buying a console at the same time.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: maybe by the time we get into February when everyone's shifted their games too,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: people have finished with the game and might be looking to move on.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: But that online component is the one that will be sticky and will keep people
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: from... Yep,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: a new black hole.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Even the premium component goes to...
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a weird thing,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: because I was looking at the September lineup for games a couple of weeks ago,
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: which is obviously a lot of the games have moved out.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: They probably would have been in October before,
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: and the October games have probably been in November before.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there are some games that cross over.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: I look at Control Resonant and Silent Hill.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I look at some of the games there, and there is crossover.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there's Blood of the Dawnwalker, now The Witcher 3 Remastered in the same month.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that wouldn't have been ideal.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: But they're all quite different as well.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I look at their primary audiences, and I can see that they're not the same.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think back to the industry that I grew up in.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the market was so different back then.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: There weren't these black hole games.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't things like TikTok.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't even things like Netflix.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: But there was so many video games.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I mentioned this a few times on the show in one week in 2008,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: there were more video games that came out and there was the entire September
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of the AAA end.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I'm not talking about the indie end where that's very different.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're right, there is a lot more focus on the sequels.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you look at the games that are coming out in February, they're all...
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's Tomb Raider, it's Fable.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you make a good point,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: which is we are still seeing kind of a transformation in terms of supply.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was not at Gamescom,
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was speaking,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: but at Brighton Develop,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was speaking to one of the big platforms of browser games.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they mentioned to me that they are seeing...
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: The AI impact and it is coming in like a flood.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they said in the first quarter of 2026,
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: they saw more applications for games than the entirety of 2025.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So staggering numbers.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where you're going
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: to see See these play patterns often being tested in terms of browser and in terms
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: of on the big UGC platforms.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's where you're going to get this wave of creators who are basically vibe coding their way.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll see the testing of gameplay patterns.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be really interesting to see if
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: in browser games we basically see new play patterns that we've never seen before.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the bull.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's the hopeful case.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: The most concerning case,
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: is to observe that even if we transform supply,
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: that demand remains the constraint that we are all faced against.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: We cannot magically create thousands, millions, billions of new eyeballs.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: That number is increasing slowly.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean we talk about this in our report where in the key markets
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: which drive revenue player growth is slowing which means that logically
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: the only place where you grow and that's what we're seeing is revenue per user.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of that revenue per user growth is going to the existing sequels and franchises.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I do think there's still opportunity for the industry,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: and I've said this before, to be more successful with older demographics.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean older demographics that grew up with gaming,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: we wouldn't have considered them older demographics.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't consider them existing demographics at all.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: But that,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mentioned My friends in their 40s going, oh, I'm interested in the PlayStation.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: They aged out of consoles.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I still think that's strange.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: You get that as TV, you know, or aged out of TV, aged out of music.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's partly our medium react to that.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And mobile has been the thing.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: this is an audience of people that historically have been happy
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: to buy premium goods.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're not necessarily like, oh, I want to play it for free.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: They just want something that's snackable and easy.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually think I've always had a theory that the success
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: of Nintendo Switch is partly driven by this audience of people
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: that like these experiences but don't have as much time.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that's an aside.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: What you were saying a moment ago about the AI thing is that we had Unity on last week.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And in that interview,
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: you talked about how,
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: from an artistic point of view,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: more people coming to market and creating stuff is a good thing.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he doesn't necessarily think it will lead to more professional games.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: It just sort of it will lead to a lot of people,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: expressing themselves,
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: perhaps creatively,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's in Roblox,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's in browser games,
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: but not necessarily competing with those more professionally made titles.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: From established teams.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: it's something that Matthew Ball said on the show,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: getting connected to what you said,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: around how some of the successes of Roblox,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think he talked about Steeler Brain Rot in particular.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's never seen anything like that before.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And is that something that the console market and the PC market,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: even the mobile market might be able to learn from that and bring that sort
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: of experiences into their games?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's happening.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's happening already.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think friend slop is basically Roblox coming to Steam where
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: the existing play pattern of highly casual,
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: low graphical fidelity and an overwhelming emphasis on doing absurd
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: and funny gimmicky things with your friends is coming and
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: then it's just being captured by Steam.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely think there's something to learn there.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it is.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've done work on this.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: We've looked into the ultimate question of do Roblox players kind of age up or do they age out?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And spoiler alert, the answer is both.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: that's definitely one of the things you're having,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: where as people age up, they're still looking for these kind of social experiences.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I would caution that because I think I know you didn't mention this as
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: a question but I think the point you were making was really good before and I want
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: to reiterate it which is we often forget about older demographics like
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: the truth is there is no one video It's not the video game industry anymore.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at the number of people who play games since 2000,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: we've gone from basically 19 to 39 year olds, overwhelmingly men.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now we've aged up and down simultaneously.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the reasons why we need all sorts of games.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it personally frustrates me tremendously when you see articles on Linked Cringe
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: and the like where they're basically saying X is dead, long live Y.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll say,
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: these high intensity,
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: high graphical fidelity premium games are dying because
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: the younger generations want this or vice versa.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, no, because we just need to serve both audiences.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: They have different needs and different wants.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, crazy.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I put it down to people,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: older people in the industry, and maybe I'm being completely generalized here.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: But when,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: in the 90s,
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: in the early noughties, there were basically two audiences of video games.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm being incredibly general here.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: There were kids.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there were geeks, right?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was at one point both.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: But there were the audiences.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: You made games for children and you made games for gamers, basically.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: But now everybody is a gamer.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: So suddenly the idea of there being one trend, you know, this is where the industry is going.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the industry is going in every direction.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's the reality of it.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's what happens when you reach the scale.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've always pointed out that this year we've had AAA new IP like Pragmata
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: and Crimson Desert breakthrough,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: as well as established sequels breakthrough,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: as well as indie games and friend slot breakthrough.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And AA is now apparently a thing that didn't work like nine months ago.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the thing everybody's doing.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just the truth is it all can work.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's very hard.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's so competitive.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's loads of things out there.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: But this idea I keep one of the lines I've repeated on the show several times
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: and my audience will tell me off for saying it too many times.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: But it is the fact that the trend today is there is no trend.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a great quote in a GI interview with Fuse Games.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: We had them on before.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, like,
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: we live in an industry where the industry is so large
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: that even niches can reach millions and millions of players.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually hated it when the industry used to do it.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Remember when everyone said 3D platforms don't work anymore.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let's abandon that.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: We'll move on to the next trend.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And EA were famous for it.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I always used them as the sort of canary in the mind.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: But they would go, right,
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: everyone wants MOBAs and everyone would drop MOBAs and go,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, we're not doing that anymore.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then they've moved to the next trend and they would chase it.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: We can't even chase trends in the industry nowadays anyway.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Games take too long to make.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: By the time your games come out, the trends moved on.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: So just don't worry about it.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Don't think about it.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just do the thing that you want to do based on your own analysis and understanding
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: of your audience.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree with you very, very much.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Go back to GTA a little bit.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Will it save console?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult to say.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Console's had a rough, rough period.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: We expected basically to re-hit its 2021 peak, so to speak, in 2026.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: We expected to drive a very large amount of premium spend.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned before,
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: it can save console,
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: but that doesn't necessarily save the rest of the market in terms
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: of it can be its own black hole.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I think with console,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: one of the big question marks that we've been looking
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: into is this whole components crisis and how everything factors into that because,
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean...
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: PS5 is now, in inflation-adjusted terms, it's at 67% more expensive.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Xbox is twice as expensive.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: We expect because of that and Call of Duty to see an uptick in the install base,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: not as high as it would have been otherwise, but nothing particularly massive.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the best news,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: but there is a silver lining when we talk
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: about this general components crisis point, which is to say
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps some of the fears are overblown when it comes to software.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's important to remember that the lion's share of time is often spent on older titles.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the closest analogy we have to a hardware shock is during the 2020-2021 GPU shortage.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you didn't see engagement or revenue on PC being...
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Being taken off course, you basically saw a reallocation of spend into software.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's question marks over the next hardware cycle being delayed and
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: that being extremely likely, but yeah, hard to say.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a weird thing with the cost of consoles.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I always think they always see them as quite premium products.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we often see people are willing to spend, but it's very high.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: My always thing that I've always said about consoles,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: and to be fair,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: I said it before,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: the greatest component crisis,
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think this generation has been a particularly interesting one.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's been occasional hits, but I think it's been a bit boring.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And in this market where,
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: no one's short of things to do or play, I don't think you can get away with that.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe it's just my own slightly blinkered opinion of it.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: But GTA 6 is not going to be boring.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think there'll be lots of people interested and excited by that.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the key is to keep putting out some interesting stuff.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of the problem is this generation is Covid meant that all
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: the studios went into the new generation slightly behind.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've also got the fact that games are taking longer to make anyway.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they've only really,
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: in the last couple of years,
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: started to work out,
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: hey, is there ways we can speed things up without harming the quality?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: I always talk about Naughty Dog as one of my favorite examples of this,
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: is that one of the most iconic console game makers in the world,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: they haven't made a game this generation.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not uncommon.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: I interviewed Mark Cerny a couple of years ago,
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: and he said,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: we're approaching the point where game development cycles are longer
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: than console generations.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, that's not right.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't logically make sense.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: The whole point of these machines is to enable game developers.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if game developers can't make a game in time, Then they're not enabling them.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: I actually believe the longer generation made sense,
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: regardless of whether or not there is the situation going on.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I hope the component price crisis sort of does alleviate in the next couple of years.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, those are my opinions, which I've expressed before.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: To circle back on one of them,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: which I think is the problem isn't just that it takes so long to make them.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think the compounding problem is our inability to validate retention before launch
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: on PC console.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the other cause of a lot So if you combine that
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: with long lengthy cycles,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: it can become really problematic because unlike mobile,
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: we can't like slowly acquire users over time.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you're basically, you need very large amounts of marketing.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's just one of the reasons we put off as investors.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: it's the fact that when investors invest in something,
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: you can normally tell after a year if it's going well.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: With games, you don't know until you launch the thing.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, well,
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: then that's changing because we had on the show last week,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: our Gamescom special last week had Patrice Desolet and Alex Hutchinson and
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: the Raccoon Logic team on.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Both of them former Assassin's Creed people were making games,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: but they've gone straight into early access.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: They've never done that before.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was new for them.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That increasingly seems to be What game companies are doing,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: which I mean, admittedly, you still need a largely finished game.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just put a prototype.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's a tough one.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: We had Ubisoft launches player council at Gamescom,
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: which is like this big thing where they get groups of players in and they testings
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: and testings and testings.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen EA in the last five years now with Skate and Dead Space,
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: which I'm not entirely sure worked out for them,
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: but they had them in right from the start.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're We're seeing companies sort of react to that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got professional businesses set up that are,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know, built around, hey, how can we give you these testings and this user...
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it tells you everything you need to know.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the challenge is,
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: because I've spoken to I was speaking to a chief publishing officer
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: who was mentioning that now with studios they basically put
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: the game every four months,
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: they put it in front of their target audiences
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: and that's just how rigorously they want to test it.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the challenge is that you put Your game in front of a golden cohort
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: and it goes, oh my God, look, our D28 retention is upwards of 28%.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not the same thing having that level of retention with your golden cohort,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: this kind of curated set of players.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's difficult to know before launch.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is useful to have that, though.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: I always look at High Guard as an example back earlier in the year, which didn't do that at all.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I do wonder if they had a small cohort of diehard fans.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: They might have had some defenders.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because I felt it came under quite a necessary level of attack.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it didn't have anyone sort of coming in and going.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for starters,
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: they might have been,
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: of course, correct some of the decisions they made, which I think were correctable.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it didn't have anyone just going, I know you're wrong about this on social media.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was just waves of negativity.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think the industry has given up on audience expansions?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think audience expansion is happening.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think what's happening is the industry is stratifying
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: where audience expansion is still happening,
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: but it's happening largely in kind of the Middle East.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there isn't necessarily a...
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Giving up on it.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there is a recognition that,
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know, the US spender is nine times more valuable than one from from MEA.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when we look at where the growth For instance,
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: in 2025, 70% of the growth came from the West and from China.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: And of that, so they drove 70% of growth.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Of that growth, 70% of it came from monetizing existing users' money.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think especially amongst the big publicly listed companies,
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: there is a recognition that if we want to hit our quarterly targets and we want
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: to grow,
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: that that growth is likely going to come from increasing revenue per user
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: in key markets.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: in the short term.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm conscious of the time, and I know there's a lot in your report.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to go through all of it,
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: but obviously it does talk about where the growth is coming from,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: and it is coming from a lot of different markets, different territories.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my bigger concern is the jobs going out.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: From a Western industry person's point of view, it's the jobs going to other markets.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting,
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: we've spoken to a few developers who are like, no,
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: we're You know, we had a Harvey Smith on talking about his new immersive sim game.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: He made a big point that all the developers are American and it isn't
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: because he's been particularly patriotic.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's just,
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's just to make a point that we've,
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: we are, everyone's in the, you know, all the contractors we're using here.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Fuse Games are making Star Wars Galactic Race.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: I made a point of saying that all of this work,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: work for higher teams, they're working well, are based in the UK.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there is an element of,
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think, That,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: but for a lot of companies,
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: there is a lot of outsourcing coming from a lot of moving talent or finding talent,
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: particularly if they can,
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know, if you're making an RPG, why not work with talent in Eastern Europe?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're really good at RPGs as well.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you're just, you're not just saving money, you're going to where the talent is.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 is awesome.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or The Witcher.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's all of that stuff.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Boulder's Gate.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's my slight concern about that trend.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: But there is some pushback.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the report isn't.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the report.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Put it this way.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: So my colleague McKeel has done work into market share gains by publishers and
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: in mobile in particular.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, across the board,
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: we're seeing We've seen Chinese publishers gain market share
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: in every major market abroad.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: So from 29 to 2025,
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Chinese publishers market share in EMEA has grown from 19% to 37% and in
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: the Americas 11% to 27%.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of doubling and almost tripling.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that is definitely a trend we are seeing.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not,
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: interestingly, I mean,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: obviously there are the big live service games that are coming out,
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: they're doing very well.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to sort of the black myth, Wukongs, there's a lot of it.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how much of it,
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: and which naturally is going to grow the market share,
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: because there's more stuff coming out and being promoted on a global scale.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think I've seen anything particularly special.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, it's targeting audiences, it's doing quite a good job with that.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think I've seen anything that's, oh,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be interested to see once all the games you saw at Gamescom start coming
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: to market,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: how many of them actually hit and what that might mean for developers in China
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: as well.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of it.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I think part of the problem is that risk taking
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: and cost management are two sides of the same coin.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: I know we often say, you know, Like creativity and economics are fundamentally linked.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think Mitch Lasky has done a great job in his podcast of hammering this message home.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: But in markets where the economics are making more sense,
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: that's sometimes where you're seeing more creative risks.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'll ask one more question.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: You've talked about how franchises and sequels are becoming more and more dominant.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's fine if you're a big publisher.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's what Xbox is doing.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just put our money behind our big franchises.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do if you're a smaller studio?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I get asked this question a lot because I'm a consultant in New Zoom.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of often are helping with specific ad hoc client questions.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think the number one thing is to kind of embody the mentality and spirit of Jay-Z
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: who said,
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a businessman,
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a business comma man,
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: which is to think about how you can become this bigger and wider play,
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: which You're looking to grab any distributional levers you can.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: And there are basically four big distributional levers that you can grab right now.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the first is you can tap into existing IPs.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if your IP isn't big, you can Think about licensing one.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: We saw that the only free-to-play game to kind of really break
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: through recently has been Marvel Rivals, so leveraging the biggest IP.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: There is tapping into existing play patterns
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: so you can move someone else's community over into your game by,
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know, leveraging the biggest IP.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of big games have come out of mods.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: But to give you an example of that,
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: I spoke to a really interesting studio over Gamescom who have built a game
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: and their wish lists are doing really well.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they basically formulated the game by looking at the genre they were playing in
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: and they read Basically,
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: every single Steam negative review and they built it like
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: a formula upwards going like, okay,
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: we're going to have what is the existing audiences want and then let's pain solve
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: for these exact and precise negative ones.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: that's an example of building around So
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: we were talking about this more about kind
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: of building around early access and that.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think Helldivers 2 is a really good example of a game built around community
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: because the actual So for those who haven't played Helldivers 2,
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: major orders are something the community has to do together in order to get
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: the goal.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: That necessarily encourages and fosters discussion and debate
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: about how we're achieving that major order.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then the final one is just to think about your own studio's brand power,
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: about its own reputation, about building that out over time.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think a really good example of a studio that is obsessed
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: with its own Brand power is like CD project.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, for instance, there's a joke, right, that The Witcher will never come out.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: That in and of itself is testament to the brand power because everyone assumes
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: that they've learned from the mistake of Cyberpunk and they will take as long
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: as it takes to get necessary.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: And people know that and they'll wait to buy it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, grab those distributional levers.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Think of yourself as Jay-Z.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's remarkable, really.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: By the time this has gone out, we would have done our big CD project interview.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's remarkable how much goodwill they have
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: after considering how disastrous their last major launch was.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: And okay, they've fixed it and they've done a massive DLC update.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was really good and stuff.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: But there is so much, you know, they won Gamescom with a remaster.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sign of the times too, though.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it really is.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good note to leave on, actually.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ronan, thank you so much for your time.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: The News Report, is it fully out next week?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the best person to ask, but I think it is already out.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it could be next week, the full one.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful to be on the show.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to Ronan there.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: All that's left for me to do is wrap up the news from the last week.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we were at Gamescom last week.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: There was lots of news coming out at Gamescom.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: We've covered all of that already, but now we have some Gamescom stats.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: So Gamescom 2026 drew in 368,000.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: and visitors from 131 countries that's a six percent increase over the previous year
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: so we've known gamescom counts visitors as individual people going through
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: the turnstiles so someone goes for four days that counts as four visitors is
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: a football number effectively it's still huge in total uh 1743 companies
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: from 66 countries exhibited that's up 11 from 2025 it's apparently a sellout
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: although I did see one space Just saying.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: International exhibitors accounted for 72% of participants,
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: 36,000 trade visitors came along,
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: and around 50% of those came from outside of Germany.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: So great numbers for Gamescom there.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: The most viewed game of Gamescom was the 11-year-old
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: The Witcher 3 CD Projekt They showed off DLC for the game, Songs of the Past.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's the first DLC for the game in a decade.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you go back to our interview on Tuesday with CD Projekt Red's CEO,
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: it's really fascinating that.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't just show off the DLC for the game.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: There was a remaster of the original 2015 game that was shown
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: The Witcher 3 Remastered comes out on September 29th, I think.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Space, there is not far away.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly,
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: a game that's a bit like The Witcher,
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: made by former Witcher devs, is out this week, Blood of the Dawnwalker.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a little bit competitive there.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: The Witcher 3 clocked up 50.7 million trailer views, going to level up.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Number two trailer was Anata from Netties,
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: with 47.2 million views, followed by Hojo vs. Noticeful, with 45.5 million views.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Over to Saudi Arabia and Savvy Games Group CEO Brian Ward has stepped down
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: after five years in the role.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's going to be replaced by Turkey Alnaweiser.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: I probably pronounced that badly.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: I apologize.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: He's the deputy governor of Saudi Arabia's public investment fund,
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: PIF, and head of International Investments Division.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: He will be the interim acting CEO.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Savvy is the group that obviously acquired Scopely and Nintec.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know, they are funded and owned by the PIF.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: PIF is the major investor behind EA.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're part of that big $55 billion acquisition.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: So big, big organisation and new CEO coming in.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of loosely connected to EA,
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: this story,
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: is Star Wars Zero company developer Bitreact has furloughed around 80%
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: of its workers ahead of the game's releases according to Gamefiles,
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: according to our friend Steven Tortillo.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: The decision was not related to EA, Star Wars or Disney.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming there were some other deals,
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: something that fell through,
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: some game project that sort of collapsed that meant that they had to furlough
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: a bunch of staff.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the details.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's certainly surprising.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: The game has reviewed very well,
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: but as I've sort of said earlier, There's a lot of these XCOM-like games coming out.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not quite sure how big the XCOM-like genre is.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, the game has gone down very well.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Journalists love it.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: It seems to be doing all right on Steam.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully it'll find its audience and some of those staff can come back to react
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: to the fact they've been furloughed suggests that they do expect to be able
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: to bring them back.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Next story,
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Godot game engine company W4 Games has raised $80 million in
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: a Series B funding round led by Tencent.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was also signed an agreement with the Chinese conglomerate to scale Godot in Asia.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: W4 has raised $33 million in total from all sorts of different investors.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was formed in 2022 by the founders of Godot,
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: which is an open source engine to provide services to developers using the tech,
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: such as console porting.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the commercial element.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: According to SteamDB, over 1,250 games are using the Godot engine.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's certainly growing, it's
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: only getting
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: bigger.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about tariffs.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: So like PlayStation and Nintendo,
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Playdate maker Panic has received a refund from the US government after
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: the tariffs it introduced last year were deemed illegal.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Unlike PlayStation and Nintendo,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Playdate is passing the refunds on to consumers,
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: which it had initially charged customers more for.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Nintendo argues it actually mostly swallowed the costs of those tariffs.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: Nintendo didn't actually increase the price of the Switch 2.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: They did increase the price of the Switch 1 slightly, and PlayStation makes similar arguments.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Going back to Saudi Arabia, Roblox will open a headquarters in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is to support its creator program in the Middle East and North Africa.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of growing developers there, some interesting talent emerging out of that market.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Elsewhere,
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: NetEase is free to play,
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: works here,
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: open world action RPG,
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Where Wins Meet now has 100 million players,
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: it only came out in November 2025,
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: it is of course free to play, but fantastic numbers there.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: 1047 Games is shifting away from live service shooters and ending active development
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: on Impulse and Splitgate Arena Reloaded.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: And finally,
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to an event in October called Game Republic New Horizons,
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think I mentioned it before, I'm going to be interviewing Ken Kutari.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for me.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's the roundup.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: We will be back next week with more news, analysis, insight and interviews.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, our very next show is going to be with Maverick Games.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: I did a big interview just before Gamescom on Clutch and the journey to finding a publisher.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's surprising, shall we say.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: But until that time, that's it from us.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you would like to make sure you don't miss it,
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: head to thegamebusiness.com,
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: put in your email and you'll get an alert every single time we do a new episode.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: But until then, thank you for tuning in.