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ADHD Executive Function in Real Life: Why Checklists Fail and the Scaffolding System That Actually Works · Raising ADHD: Real Talk For Parents & Educators

• 0:00
  Apryl: This is why the that advice of use a checklist, use visual aids.
• 0:05
  Apryl: You can't just hand them a checklist and expect that they're going to check it.
• 0:10
  Apryl: That's not scaffolding.
• 0:11
  Apryl: That's never ever going to get the skill built.
• 0:16
  Apryl: Working memory is already a struggle for these kiddos, so we are just making it harder.
• 0:21
  Apryl: And then we're getting angry and upset when it's like, why didn't you use your checklist?
• 0:26
  Apryl: Welcome to Raising ADHD, the podcast for parents and teachers raising ADHD kids.
• 0:32
  Apryl: If you've ever felt frustrated, overwhelmed, or just unsure what to do next, you're not alone.
• 0:38
  Apryl: I'm April Bradford, a former teacher and ADHD mom, and alongside my husband, Dr.
• 0:44
  Apryl: Brian Bradford, a child and adolescent psychiatrist, we're here to give you the clarity, strategies, and support you've been looking for.
• 0:51
  Apryl: Every week we break down the misconceptions, answer your biggest questions, and share real tools you can use right away at home and in the classroom.
• 1:00
  Apryl: So if you're ready to feel more confident and less overwhelmed, you're in the right place.
• 1:05
  Apryl: Hey there, welcome back to the Raising ADHD podcast.
• 1:09
  Apryl: Okay, I know that I promised that Brian would be on this week, but things got crazy.
• 1:13
  Apryl: He was traveling, I'm traveling.
• 1:15
  Apryl: So he's not on this week about talking about how to talk to your kids about behavior, but he will be on next week.
• 1:20
  Apryl: This week, we are diving into why your checklist isn't working and what actually does.
• 1:27
  Apryl: I'm gonna teach you what we do in our house to actually get my daughter to do the things that I want her to do.
• 1:35
  Apryl: Alright, so let's dive in.
• 1:38
  Apryl: Before we go any further, though, I am so excited to announce that in just a few weeks, we are going to be opening the doors to the behavior breakthrough workshop week.
• 1:52
  Apryl: I want you to think of that one behavior that is just driving you crazy.
• 1:57
  Apryl: Maybe it's consistent, constant meltdowns.
• 2:01
  Apryl: Maybe it's the morning routine.
• 2:03
  Apryl: Maybe it's homework.
• 2:05
  Apryl: Whatever that behavior is, we're gonna take your one behavior and we are going to create an entire system, kind of like what I'm talking about in today's episode, but we are going to build the system for you, your child, and your home.
• 2:19
  Apryl: So get on the wait list for behavior breakthrough week because you are not going to want to miss it.
• 2:27
  Apryl: You can go to raisingadh.org forward slash breakthrough to get on the wait list because seats will be limited and you do not want to miss out because it is going to change your house.
• 2:38
  Apryl: To start today, I have to tell you a funny story.
• 2:41
  Apryl: Last night my daughter w was just struggling to go to bed.
• 2:47
  Apryl: Actually, the last two nights, struggle to go to bed.
• 2:50
  Apryl: She takes melatonin to go to bed.
• 2:52
  Apryl: She takes two one milligrams.
• 2:55
  Apryl: This is not medical advice.
• 2:57
  Apryl: This is just what we do in our house that works for us.
• 3:00
  Apryl: So I had given her her two pills, and she was supposed to go brush her teeth.
• 3:06
  Apryl: This was two nights ago.
• 3:07
  Apryl: The next day I find that the two melatonins are sitting on the bathroom cupboard instead of being taken.
• 3:16
  Apryl: This is not our normal routine.
• 3:18
  Apryl: Last night I knew that the melatonin was on the bathroom cupboard.
• 3:22
  Apryl: So I said, hey, go brush your teeth and take the melatonin.
• 3:25
  Apryl: There's melatonin right there on the bathroom cupboard.
• 3:28
  Apryl: Okay, great.
• 3:31
  Apryl: This is a failing of mine.
• 3:33
  Apryl: I did not double check.
• 3:34
  Apryl: We're I'm laying by her trying to get her to fall asleep.
• 3:38
  Apryl: It takes her forever to fall asleep last night.
• 3:40
  Apryl: I'm like, did you take your melatonin?
• 3:41
  Apryl: Yeah, I think so.
• 3:42
  Apryl: I can't remember though.
• 3:43
  Apryl: Okay, did you take your melatonin?
• 3:45
  Apryl: Are you sure you took it?
• 3:46
  Apryl: I don't know.
• 3:47
  Apryl: I can't remember.
• 3:48
  Apryl: I was like, I'm not going downstairs, check, she'll finally fall asleep.
• 3:51
  Apryl: She did.
• 3:52
  Apryl: But what happened this morning?
• 3:55
  Apryl: I just had to laugh at.
• 3:57
  Apryl: So she tells me, she's like, Mom, look, look what's this.
• 4:01
  Apryl: So we have an ant issue in our master bathroom.
• 4:04
  Apryl: And in the shower specifically, we're having an ant issue.
• 4:08
  Apryl: So she had put the, we have like the little ant like poison traps.
• 4:13
  Apryl: She put one of those in the shower yesterday, last night, with her two melatonin that she was supposed to take because she wanted to see if you know it would attract the ants and what it would do to the ants.
• 4:27
  Apryl: And so this morning, I am like just like, oh my gosh.
• 4:31
  Apryl: It's one of those moments you have to laugh.
• 4:32
  Apryl: Because I mean, I thought that it was interesting that that's where her little brain went, was like, hmm, she was doing a science experiment, right?
• 4:40
  Apryl: But she didn't take her melatonin.
• 4:42
  Apryl: And now this morning I'm like, I wonder if she even brushed her teeth last night.
• 4:47
  Apryl: I should have probably checked.
• 4:48
  Apryl: So I tell you this because this is a perfect example of what executive function challenges look like in our home.
• 4:57
  Apryl: She has the ability to brush her teeth.
• 4:59
  Apryl: This has been one of those things, though, that has been the last few days, it's like, I don't want to brush my teeth.
• 5:06
  Apryl: Why do I have to brush my teeth?
• 5:07
  Apryl: So we're kind of slipping on her motivation to do it, um, which is totally normal.
• 5:14
  Apryl: We can do things and then we lack motivation and then we need support to do them autonomously again, right?
• 5:20
  Apryl: She has the ability to do that.
• 5:22
  Apryl: She also usually is really good at taking her melatonin, but here's what happened.
• 5:28
  Apryl: Number one, the system had changed.
• 5:31
  Apryl: Usually we're in the kitchen.
• 5:34
  Apryl: I give her the melatonin in the kitchen and I hand it to her, and she takes it.
• 5:39
  Apryl: So her having to have the responsibility to take it on her own in a totally different room, that was not normal for us, totally different than what she's used to.
• 5:52
  Apryl: And in this moment of getting ready for bed, brushing her teeth, something she already didn't want to do, her curiosity hijacked the task of getting her teeth brushed and taking the melatonin.
• 6:06
  Apryl: Her impulsive miss one, and nothing, maybe she brushed her teeth.
• 6:11
  Apryl: I hope she did, but nothing actually got done.
• 6:14
  Apryl: You probably know that exact moment that has happened in your house.
• 6:18
  Apryl: Maybe it's the homework that becomes the science experiment, maybe it's getting ready for school, and somehow your kid ends up in the backyard, maybe it's bedtime and suddenly they're reorganizing their closet.
• 6:29
  Apryl: That's what we're talking about today.
• 6:32
  Apryl: So here's what I want you to know is again, this is not about your kid not wanting to do the task.
• 6:38
  Apryl: I mean, yes, they may be unmotivated to do the task.
• 6:42
  Apryl: And my daughter was not trying to be defiant.
• 6:45
  Apryl: Literally, this was an executive function faux pas, the part of the brain that gets things done.
• 6:52
  Apryl: When we talk executive functions, these are the functions that are truly make it so we can actually get things done.
• 7:00
  Apryl: And so we have figured out a system in our house that works.
• 7:06
  Apryl: And that's what our behavior breakthrough week.
• 7:08
  Apryl: I'm gonna show you the system, teach you the system.
• 7:11
  Apryl: But what we're gonna talk about today is probably not what you've been told to do.
• 7:15
  Apryl: So I always do research before I ever do podcast episodes.
• 7:20
  Apryl: I always do more research on the topic.
• 7:23
  Apryl: And again, I do research on executive function, right?
• 7:27
  Apryl: And the information I always see is give a um have a checklist, have a visual checklist, have these things.
• 7:36
  Apryl: But here's the problem is those do not work unless there's scaffolding in place to get those to work.
• 7:43
  Apryl: So let's back up for just a minute.
• 7:46
  Apryl: And I want to explain executive function in a way that I think will help make it all make sense.
• 7:52
  Apryl: So if we think about executive function as the brain's GPS system, it what it's what gets you from point A starting, right, to point B, so the finished task.
• 8:03
  Apryl: It's the navigation, it's what helps us know where to go, what turns to make, what stops to make, right?
• 8:10
  Apryl: Your kid has the car, they have the engine, they have the ability to drive, but without a GPS, they don't know which turn comes next.
• 8:21
  Apryl: And they don't even know the route.
• 8:23
  Apryl: They might know where they want to go.
• 8:26
  Apryl: I want to fall asleep or I want to get ready for school, but the how is missing.
• 8:33
  Apryl: Like they're their little brains are just really struggling with like how do I even get this done?
• 8:37
  Apryl: Especially, you know, like if their brains are the GPS and they're having to drive to school, and there's YouTube, and there's fun toys to play with, and there's a Switch, and all the things, right?
• 8:52
  Apryl: There's siblings that they could go annoy, or there's the cat they could pet.
• 8:56
  Apryl: These are all detours that their brain is going to take because it's way more exciting than getting to school.
• 9:03
  Apryl: So that's where most of the parenting advice stops.
• 9:09
  Apryl: It's like, okay, here's they we just have got to get them from point A to point B.
• 9:14
  Apryl: So give them a checklist, give them a visual reminder, and then give them a tool.
• 9:19
  Apryl: But here is what I have found that is missing.
• 9:23
  Apryl: If the GPS is broken, handing them a map doesn't fix it.
• 9:28
  Apryl: You can't just say, here's the route, figure it out, because they are definitely going to get lost.
• 9:33
  Apryl: They're gonna get distracted, right?
• 9:35
  Apryl: Just like we said the YouTube, the cat, the this, the Nintendo Switch, all the things.
• 9:40
  Apryl: They'll end up in the ant trap with the melatonin doing a science experiment.
• 9:46
  Apryl: So, how do we actually get these things that we're told are supposed to work, like checklists?
• 9:52
  Apryl: How do we actually make them work?
• 9:54
  Apryl: Great question.
• 9:55
  Apryl: You have to become the GPS.
• 9:58
  Apryl: So here is I actually did a big blog post on this as well of what our life looks like, like real life morning routine for us.
• 10:09
  Apryl: My daughter's morning routine is exactly the same every single day.
• 10:13
  Apryl: I actually do not use visual checklists, and it really depends on what type of personality you have.
• 10:21
  Apryl: For me, I forget to use the checklists, or I'm really good at using them for like a day or two or three, and then I forget about them.
• 10:30
  Apryl: So that system does not work for me.
• 10:34
  Apryl: But what does work for me and what does work for my daughter, because I've scaffolded this and supported it into place, is doing the exact same thing every single day.
• 10:46
  Apryl: So the same order.
• 10:47
  Apryl: Now, some people struggle with like sticking to a precise schedule.
• 10:55
  Apryl: Like at this time we do this, and this time we do this.
• 10:58
  Apryl: You don't, if you that doesn't work for you, you don't have to do that.
• 11:01
  Apryl: Our mornings are pretty consistent for the most part with time, but I'm not down to the minute, like, okay, at 8.05, this is what we're doing.
• 11:12
  Apryl: No, I just know we need about this much time.
• 11:15
  Apryl: Okay, that's what it's gonna take.
• 11:16
  Apryl: Okay, so it's the same order and the same sequence because here is what is happening when I'm doing the same order in the same sequence every morning is consistency is built, and that is what builds the internal GPS.
• 11:33
  Apryl: But in the beginning, I couldn't say go get ready for school, I had to be the navigation system.
• 11:41
  Apryl: So, for example, I'll give you like what our morning looks like, and I think there is a key to this that actually makes our morning so successful.
• 11:52
  Apryl: My daughter wakes up between 7 and 7:30 each morning.
• 11:58
  Apryl: And from 7:30, or from the time she wakes up to about 8:10, she is eating breakfast.
• 12:09
  Apryl: That is a long dang time to eat breakfast.
• 12:13
  Apryl: You bet it is.
• 12:15
  Apryl: Usually we don't start breakfast until 7:30.
• 12:18
  Apryl: So if she's woke up, she'll be playing or doing something.
• 12:21
  Apryl: But around like that 7:30 time, again, I am not like a it's 7:30, this is what we're doing.
• 12:27
  Apryl: That this is what works for me.
• 12:29
  Apryl: I am not that consistent of a person and organized of a person that like right at this time we're doing these things.
• 12:36
  Apryl: So we start breakfast, she's sitting at the kitchen cupboard or the table eating breakfast, and she eats for about 40 minutes because it takes her so long.
• 12:46
  Apryl: She is such a slow eater.
• 12:48
  Apryl: Again, her brain is not fully online yet.
• 12:53
  Apryl: Are all of those what the morning demands of our brains, and especially with brains that struggle with executive function?
• 13:03
  Apryl: It is a lot.
• 13:04
  Apryl: So, this 40 minutes, I think, is actually super helpful to help regulate her.
• 13:09
  Apryl: Um, because I'm not rushing her, because we have built in that time.
• 13:13
  Apryl: Like it's okay, we can we have enough time that that works for us.
• 13:17
  Apryl: So she's eating for that much time.
• 13:20
  Apryl: Then this is this is where I start to become the navigation system for her.
• 13:27
  Apryl: Is I will this is how it started is I started with okay, it's time to get dressed.
• 13:32
  Apryl: Let's go get dressed, time to brush your teeth, brush your teeth.
• 13:36
  Apryl: Okay, now let's get shoes and socks on.
• 13:38
  Apryl: Shoes and socks.
• 13:39
  Apryl: Okay, now backpack.
• 13:40
  Apryl: So, and then I'm the one who always does her hair.
• 13:43
  Apryl: So then we'd go in the living room, I do her hair in the living room, and so we follow that consistent routine, except I did backpack out of order for my hair.
• 13:51
  Apryl: Um, but we follow that consistent routine.
• 13:54
  Apryl: And for the for a long time, I was the one saying, okay, time to get dressed, time to brush your teeth, let's do your hair, right?
• 14:04
  Apryl: I was saying those things.
• 14:06
  Apryl: But over time, what I've done is I've started to hand that responsibility to her and her brain.
• 14:15
  Apryl: And because we have done this consistently for so long, her brain, it she doesn't need the checklist because it is like innate in her of she knows the routine.
• 14:27
  Apryl: So her, I will ask her, okay, it's time to get ready for school.
• 14:32
  Apryl: What do you need to do?
• 14:33
  Apryl: I I need to go brush my teeth.
• 14:34
  Apryl: Great, go brush your teeth.
• 14:35
  Apryl: Okay, now what?
• 14:36
  Apryl: I need to get dressed, great.
• 14:37
  Apryl: Now what?
• 14:38
  Apryl: Shoes.
• 14:39
  Apryl: Yep.
• 14:40
  Apryl: Okay.
• 14:40
  Apryl: And what the other morning, like her brain was so offline that it was a bit of a struggle that morning.
• 14:46
  Apryl: And so I was like, okay, what do you need to do next?
• 14:48
  Apryl: And she's like, I don't know.
• 14:50
  Apryl: And so I said, Okay, well, look at your body and think, what have you done and what have you not done?
• 14:56
  Apryl: Oh, I need shoes and socks on.
• 14:58
  Apryl: Yep, you need to get your shoes and socks on.
• 15:00
  Apryl: So I am handing the baton over to her to become the navigation system, right?
• 15:06
  Apryl: So that's how we move through our mornings, is I am still there to like guide and just prompt, but I'm not the one who's doing the stuff for her.
• 15:19
  Apryl: I've also put into place ways that make it very easy, which I've shared this before.
• 15:25
  Apryl: I have like a clothes organizer that's downstairs in my closet, so she never goes upstairs.
• 15:32
  Apryl: She brushes her teeth in my bathroom, which my closet is attached to my bathroom.
• 15:37
  Apryl: So everything is right there so she doesn't have to go upstairs.
• 15:40
  Apryl: Again, this is what we're building in the behavior breakthrough week is this type of system in your home, looking at your home and going, okay, what executive function skills is this requiring?
• 15:53
  Apryl: What's happening here?
• 15:54
  Apryl: And how can we support this?
• 15:56
  Apryl: Right.
• 15:56
  Apryl: I've talked about this on the podcast.
• 15:58
  Apryl: We do medicate.
• 16:00
  Apryl: And so some mornings her medication is still kicking in.
• 16:04
  Apryl: And some mornings her nervous system is definitely more activated than other mornings.
• 16:09
  Apryl: And so on those mornings, I where her nervous system is more activated, she's more on the hyper-impulsive side or maybe angry or reactive.
• 16:19
  Apryl: I might have to stay closer to make sure she's getting things done.
• 16:23
  Apryl: But for the most part, I can be in the kitchen packing lunch and she's getting her stuff done.
• 16:30
  Apryl: I just have to be there still to be like, oh, what turn do you need to make now?
• 16:34
  Apryl: Right.
• 16:34
  Apryl: When we think about the navigation system.
• 16:37
  Apryl: She's pretty dang solid on this now.
• 16:40
  Apryl: We've done this play for so long.
• 16:43
  Apryl: She runs the route so many times she barely needs me.
• 16:46
  Apryl: She just gets it done.
• 16:48
  Apryl: That's what scaffolding is.
• 16:50
  Apryl: Us being that support until they no longer need the support.
• 16:55
  Apryl: Think about construction scaffolding around a building.
• 16:58
  Apryl: It's temporary support.
• 17:00
  Apryl: It holds things up while the actual structure gets stronger.
• 17:03
  Apryl: And then once the building is strong enough, you take the scaffolding down.
• 17:06
  Apryl: That's exactly what we do with executive function.
• 17:10
  Apryl: We're putting support in place.
• 17:12
  Apryl: That's us being the GPS, asking the questions, staying close until our kids' brain can do it on their on its own.
• 17:20
  Apryl: And then gradually we pull that support back.
• 17:24
  Apryl: And this is the this is why the that advice of use a checklist, use visual aids.
• 17:32
  Apryl: You can't just hand them a checklist and expect that they're going to check it.
• 17:37
  Apryl: Like I mentioned earlier, I struggle with using a checklist myself.
• 17:43
  Apryl: So I would have to practice, practice, practice like habits, right?
• 17:48
  Apryl: Set that habit into place.
• 17:49
  Apryl: I can't just hand my daughter a checklist and say, here you go.
• 17:53
  Apryl: That's not scaffolding.
• 17:55
  Apryl: That's never ever going to get the skill built or her being able to do it on her own.
• 18:03
  Apryl: That's just giving them one more thing to remember.
• 18:07
  Apryl: So now they have to remember to check the checklist first and then do all the skills, which, yes, the checklist helps them to remember all the skills, but we're expecting them just to remember to use it.
• 18:19
  Apryl: And we know that working memory is already a struggle for these kiddos.
• 18:23
  Apryl: So we are just making it harder.
• 18:25
  Apryl: And then we're getting angry and upset when it's like, why didn't you use your checklist?
• 18:29
  Apryl: Right.
• 18:30
  Apryl: So real scaffolding looks like me standing with her, me asking her what's next.
• 18:38
  Apryl: I might walk with her to if I were to use a checklist, I this is how I would scaffold a checklist.
• 18:47
  Apryl: I would have the checklist with all the things, right?
• 18:50
  Apryl: And until she could use it consistently on her own, I would start with the prompt, okay, time to get ready for school.
• 19:02
  Apryl: Check your checklist.
• 19:03
  Apryl: And I might even walk her over to the fridge if that's where the checklist is hanging, wherever the checklist is, walk her over there and say, okay, what do you need to do first?
• 19:12
  Apryl: And then she checks the checklist and she says, Oh, I need to go brush my teeth.
• 19:17
  Apryl: Great.
• 19:18
  Apryl: And then I would have to watch her and make sure once she's done brushing her teeth.
• 19:22
  Apryl: Again, remind her, okay, let's go look at the checklist.
• 19:25
  Apryl: What's next?
• 19:26
  Apryl: I've got to get dressed.
• 19:28
  Apryl: Perfect.
• 19:28
  Apryl: Let's go get you dressed.
• 19:30
  Apryl: And then see how I would scaffold that.
• 19:33
  Apryl: And then, so that would be like the first layer of scaffolding when there's like the building is so fragile it's going to fall over without help, right?
• 19:43
  Apryl: The next step would be me pulling back a bit on that on that scaffolding when I can see she's got pretty consistent.
• 19:50
  Apryl: Like she's already, without me prompting, she's starting to go look at the checklist and stuff like that.
• 19:55
  Apryl: Then what I would do, instead of saying, okay, let's look at the checklist, I would say, hey, have you checked your checklist?
• 20:01
  Apryl: What do you need to do?
• 20:02
  Apryl: And she would just tell me.
• 20:03
  Apryl: I wouldn't walk her over to the fridge.
• 20:05
  Apryl: And she would go do it.
• 20:06
  Apryl: Okay, what's next?
• 20:07
  Apryl: What's next?
• 20:08
  Apryl: That's how I would scaffold this.
• 20:10
  Apryl: That's what scaffolding looks like.
• 20:12
  Apryl: I'm present, I'm there, and I'm queuing, and I'm the external brain until her brain catches up.
• 20:20
  Apryl: And once she does this so many times, runs that route over and over and over again, I eventually back away.
• 20:28
  Apryl: The questions will stay, especially on mornings that I see that she's struggling.
• 20:32
  Apryl: But again, our kiddos are still kids.
• 20:35
  Apryl: And as not only we have this consistent routine, but as she matures, all of this stuff is going to get just automatic and she's going to do it.
• 20:46
  Apryl: And just like I was saying, sometimes things slip back, and then we just build up a little bit more scaffolding until we're back into the routine again.
• 20:55
  Apryl: And that when there's a slip up, the getting back into routine is much quicker than building it in the first place.
• 21:02
  Apryl: Just like if you have scaffolding up, right?
• 21:04
  Apryl: Adding a layer of scaffolding isn't that hard.
• 21:07
  Apryl: But starting from zero and building an entire set of scaffolding takes a lot longer than just building one layer.
• 21:13
  Apryl: So that is executive function in what it looks like in real life, what it looks like in our house, what we're doing, and specifically for our mornings, how we're building a system and scaffolding that system into automaticity for my daughter.
• 21:32
  Apryl: So there's a quick and dirty of executive function and why checklists don't work, because we're not scaffolding them into place.
• 21:41
  Apryl: We're just handing them and saying, here, go do the checklist.
• 21:44
  Apryl: And we're just making their, we're just giving one more task to brain that is already overwhelmed.
• 21:50
  Apryl: So we have to make sure that we scaffold these tools into place.
• 21:54
  Apryl: And once we do, the tools will work.
• 21:56
  Apryl: But again, scaffold, scaffold, scaffold.
• 21:59
  Apryl: That is The important thing.
• 22:01
  Apryl: So I would love to see you at the Behavior Breakthrough week.
• 22:06
  Apryl: You can join the wait list for that.
• 22:09
  Apryl: Seats are limited.
• 22:10
  Apryl: We can only host so many people in the Zoom room.
• 22:14
  Apryl: So seats are limited.
• 22:16
  Apryl: Go get on the wait list at raisingadh.org slash breakthrough, and you'll be the first to know when doors open.
• 22:24
  Apryl: All right, I will see you next week.
• 22:29
  Brian Bradford: Thanks so much for joining us for today's conversation on raising ADHD.
• 22:33
  Brian Bradford: Remember, raising ADHD kids doesn't have to feel overwhelming.
• 22:36
  Brian Bradford: Small shifts can make a big difference.
• 22:39
  Brian Bradford: If you found this episode helpful, it would mean the world if you would hit subscribe, if you would leave a review, or if you shared it with another parent or teacher who needs this support.
• 22:48
  Brian Bradford: And don't forget to join us next week for more real talk, practical tips, and encouragement.
• 22:53
  Brian Bradford: Until then, you've got this and we've got your back.