Latest / #Divorce: Support before, during and after with Sarah-Jane / Season 4 : Episode 1# Clutter Is the Enemy: Creating Calm in Times of Change with Rachel Smith

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Season 4 : Episode 1# Clutter Is the Enemy: Creating Calm in Times of Change with Rachel Smith · #Divorce: Support before, during and after with Sarah-Jane

• 0:11
  Hello. And welcome to another.
• 0:13
  Episode of Divorce support before, during and after.
• 0:18
  I'm Sarah Jane Taster, French family lawyer and mediator and
• 0:21
  I'm here with my wonderful Co host Audrey Zeitun, divorce and
• 0:25
  relationship coach. Well, Full disclosure, Audrey is
• 0:28
  not here with me tonight because it's the second time we're
• 0:32
  recording this episode with our amazing guest because I messed
• 0:36
  up last week's recording and we needed to re record as soon as
• 0:41
  possible and unfortunately Audrey was not available.
• 0:45
  We are delighted to welcome Rachel Smith to the podcast
• 0:48
  today. Rachel is a House Whisper
• 0:52
  Sanctuary creator and the force behind Clutter is the Enemy.
• 0:57
  She brings together the cluttering, empathic interior
• 1:00
  design, hope staging and her experience as an estate agent to
• 1:04
  help people transform their homes into spaces of calm and
• 1:08
  well-being. She's the perfect guest for this
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  time of the year when many of us are are returning from holidays
• 1:16
  and children are heading back to school.
• 1:18
  Hooray. And there's a real desire to
• 1:21
  feel more organised, grounded and ready for a fresh start.
• 1:25
  For those navigating divorce, separation or moving house,
• 1:28
  Rachel's work is especially powerful.
• 1:31
  She not only tackles the practical side of decluttering,
• 1:35
  but also supports the emotional journey of letting go and
• 1:39
  creating a new beginning. I'm so happy to welcome you for
• 1:43
  the second time on our podcast. How are you Rachel?
• 1:47
  I'm. Good.
• 1:48
  Thank you for having me. We had a little conversation the
• 1:50
  first time, so I hope this one looks up to that.
• 1:53
  There's nothing like a short intro to what I do anyway.
• 1:56
  So Victor's, there's so much of it.
• 2:00
  But yes, I am here to take the stress out of anything to do
• 2:04
  with your home because you are your home.
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  Your home is you. Whatever you're doing, whatever
• 2:11
  situation you're going through, it has an effect on your home,
• 2:16
  you realise it or not. So your home affects your mental
• 2:20
  health and your mental health affects your home.
• 2:22
  So when you are going through life changing events or you are
• 2:28
  moving house, which itself is a life changing event, it does
• 2:32
  have a big effect on you and how you feel.
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  Part of what I'm doing is normalizing the conversation
• 2:40
  around your home and your mental health because it's not
• 2:44
  something that people talk about.
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  They certainly don't talk about it in a state.
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  They just it is. Whether?
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  I'm trying to make the difference by treating people as
• 2:55
  people, not just as numbers, because it's the most stressful
• 2:59
  thing you can do. And if I can take this out of
• 3:02
  that, then that's great. Also, just just the way that
• 3:09
  your home looks, say that your home feels is super important
• 3:15
  and it has a bigger effect on you than you would give it
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  credit for. That's the time when everybody's
• 3:21
  going back to school, back to work, getting into routines
• 3:24
  again. Some say the first week of
• 3:27
  September is like the first week of January.
• 3:29
  It's that time for you to, you know, start those new habits,
• 3:35
  lay down those new ground rules. It's a time for everybody to
• 3:40
  just get back into a routine. But I would say don't get back
• 3:44
  into a routine, forward into a routine.
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  Don't just do things because you've always done them.
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  Now is the opportunity to take a step back and look at what's
• 3:55
  happening in your home because our homes should evolve with our
• 4:01
  families, but often they don't. If your home doesn't change and
• 4:06
  adapt with your family or the people living in it, then you
• 4:11
  can get a kind of disconnect. That's when a lot of people want
• 4:14
  to move because their homes no longer serve the purpose that
• 4:19
  they need it to. And that is quite an absurd
• 4:23
  notion because you can get to the point where your home is
• 4:27
  controlling you. It should definitely be the
• 4:30
  other way around because how can an inanimate object 4 walls
• 4:34
  filled with objects start to control you?
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  It does when you relinquish control over it through just
• 4:44
  being busy with life, juggling through these life changing
• 4:47
  events. Then it does start to take
• 4:50
  control of you and the clutter builds up.
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  You find yourself in rooms that don't do what you want them to
• 4:57
  do because you don't allow it. You know, you end up with some
• 5:01
  people go, I really don't like my house.
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  Why? Because I can't do this.
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  It doesn't let me do this. But all that is in your control.
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  It is your home. Your home is what you have
• 5:11
  created. And instead of opting out and
• 5:15
  going, yeah, I can't be bothered tidying up, I don't have time to
• 5:18
  redecorate. I don't have time to rethink my
• 5:20
  spaces. By doing that, you're doing
• 5:22
  yourself a disservice and you're definitely affecting your own
• 5:25
  mental health. Whereas if you took back the
• 5:28
  reins and said no, hang on, this isn't serving it as it is.
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  It's just try and look at it objectively.
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  And that's a really hard thing to do because it's your home and
• 5:40
  you are surrounded by your things every day.
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  You stop seeing them. It's what I call house
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  blindness, and you can remedy that by actually taking a
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  picture of every room. If you take a picture of every
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  room, it gives you that different lens.
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  You're literally looking at its lens and it allows you to be a
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  bit more objective. You can take stock of what it
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  looks like. I encourage people to do a
• 6:08
  feelings analysis. So sitting in a space for a
• 6:13
  while, imagining it with nothing in it and thinking what do I
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  want this room to do? How do I want people to act in
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  this room and what can I do to make that possible?
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  And quite often it doesn't have to be anything drastic.
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  It's not a hole, let's replace everything, defrate everything.
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  It's looking at the furniture you've got, the lighting you've
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  got there. It's looking at how much texture
• 6:37
  you've got in there. There's there's so many things
• 6:39
  you can do to make a room feel more comfortable.
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  If people aren't using a specific room or the things you
• 6:48
  want them to use it for, then you have to create those
• 6:53
  conditions so that that will happen.
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  You can't just expect people to do the things that you want them
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  to do if the right conditions haven't been created.
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  There's a lot to unpick in what you've just said.
• 7:06
  You've covered everything you do.
• 7:09
  Pretty much. Just so our listeners have a
• 7:13
  better understanding of who you are, can you rewind and tell us
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  how you came about doing what you do?
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  Today, this life and work that I created, I made my own job up
• 7:26
  because I've been made. And it was one of those now or
• 7:29
  never moments. My husband said to me, you've
• 7:32
  always wanted to do something with houses.
• 7:34
  Do it now. So I was like, OK, I'll just
• 7:36
  start my business in COVID. Why not?
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  How hard can it be? You know, naivety sometimes is a
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  good thing. It's if I'd have thought about
• 7:45
  it for too long, I definitely wouldn't have done it.
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  It's one of those culmination of sort of everything I have done
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  has led me to this point. I couldn't have done this
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  business earlier in my life because it's everything that
• 8:00
  I've done that's allowed me to no people and spaces like I do.
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  I studied languages, I lived in different countries, being the
• 8:11
  foreign person and the foreign land.
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  And I've had to adapt and I really understand what people
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  are trying to say without them actually saying it because
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  sometimes didn't understand the word.
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  So I had to rely on reading people, reading signs, reading
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  the underlying subtext, reading generally the environment,
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  everything. Trying to decide for cultures
• 8:34
  without people telling you it's a difficult thing to do.
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  There's a lot of unsaid that you don't realise unless you've been
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  there. Being in people's private spaces
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  is a very privileged position to be in when somebody invites you
• 8:49
  into their home. Well generally because I'm a
• 8:53
  person that listens, I'm an active listener.
• 8:55
  So people just literally the whole life story in the 1st 5
• 8:59
  minutes because people like to be seen, they'd like to be heard
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  and they know that I'm receiving that with good grace.
• 9:07
  I'm in their home and I'm touching their stuff.
• 9:10
  And so that's a really personal thing for me to be doing.
• 9:14
  You have to be a certain kind of person for somebody to allow
• 9:18
  that to happen. The way that I speak to people
• 9:23
  is based on years of experience and you have to know how to deal
• 9:30
  with people. And especially because a lot of
• 9:32
  the people I'm dealing with, they have been through life
• 9:35
  change events, they are separated, they are divorced,
• 9:37
  they have been through bereavement, they've lost, you
• 9:41
  know, lots of different situations.
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  The one thing that I've learned is that clutter does not
• 9:48
  discriminate. When I called my business
• 9:51
  Clutter is the enemy, I always knew that clutter I was talking
• 9:54
  about was in here. Because what's in your head is
• 9:58
  in your house and what's influx is in your head, living rent
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  free and taking up space. So everything that you have in
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  your home that is neither beautiful nor useful or risk, be
• 10:12
  there because it's taking up space in your head.
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  And that's why when you are surrounded by lots of stuff,
• 10:18
  even if it's just on your desk, you can't think straight because
• 10:22
  this stuff is getting in the way of your thoughts.
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  When you've got more, that may have negative connotations that
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  starts really affecting your mental health.
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  But it's not just a question of not being able to make
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  decisions. It's the fact that you can't
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  move forward with your life because the stuff that is
• 10:42
  surrounding you is stopping you doing that.
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  I'm going off again into a big massive tribe, but because it's.
• 10:53
  Yeah, that's why I'm not stopping you.
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  The emotional side is so important, isn't it?
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  And it's central to everything in your life.
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  There's lots of people out there who might have a therapist, they
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  might a counsellor, they might go to a support group, they
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  might do all sorts of things outside of the home that are
• 11:13
  helping themselves. But if you don't go to the roots
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  of the problem at home, then you're not going to get any
• 11:21
  service with these things because this is the linchpin of
• 11:24
  everything. Once you sort your home out and
• 11:28
  make it somewhere that is your sanctuary, where you'd feel safe
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  and it is reflecting the best version of you, then all the
• 11:38
  other things in your life will slot into place.
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  OK. So can you tell us or give us
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  example of what you do to solve those issues linked to what's
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  wrong with a house or a? Room.
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  Yeah, there will be something hiding, and I call them cupboard
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  demons. They're balls of negative energy
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  surrounding objects from a past life that shouldn't be there.
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  And these are the objects that holding you back.
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  So it's my job to find those objects.
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  And because people tell me stories and whilst they're
• 12:16
  telling me about their lives, I might think, oh, there might be
• 12:19
  something from that bit of their lives that I might find.
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  But until we find it, we don't know what it is.
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  And it could be something that's seemingly innocuous but holds
• 12:29
  meaning and negativity for that person.
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  I'll give you a couple of examples.
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  One example is a wedding dress from an abusive marriage.
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  This lady had left that situation.
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  She was living with a new partner and the wedding dress
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  was hanging in her wardrobe in the bedroom that they sent it.
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  This was a an easy easy win because that was obviously the
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  issue in this house. This lady had a problem with
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  club to everywhere. She lived in a small house, it
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  had very little storage. The problem was the wedding
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  dress hanging in wardrobe. She couldn't move on totally and
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  invest herself 100% into this new relationship because there
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  was a memory of this horrible relationship hanging in the very
• 13:25
  room that they slept in. So that was the first thing that
• 13:28
  went. If this is the only thing we do,
• 13:31
  we've done our job. So I removed it immediately and
• 13:34
  put it in my car. She'd been wanting to get rid of
• 13:37
  it for a long time, but she wanted something meaningful to
• 13:42
  happen with it. There are a lot of people who
• 13:45
  take wedding dresses and make little dresses for stillborn
• 13:49
  babies. That was one suggestion, but at
• 13:52
  that time they weren't taking any because COVID.
• 13:56
  I said there are charity shops that will take wedding dresses,
• 14:01
  but I'll just take it and I'll find one you don't need to deal
• 14:03
  with. I will deal with that.
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  Because she wanted it to go to somebody who couldn't afford the
• 14:08
  dream wedding dress so she could help them have the wedding that
• 14:11
  they wanted. Because the badger stopped with
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  her, you know, she felt a release, a relief.
• 14:18
  She felt ready to tackle the rest of the house when she'd
• 14:21
  been looking at this house for two years.
• 14:23
  Going on need to do something back up by removing that piece,
• 14:28
  the last piece of the past that needed to go.
• 14:31
  The rest of the stuff was easy. In fact she got rid of that much
• 14:35
  stuff on vintage that she paid for me and had some money left.
• 14:41
  So that was, she's been a couple of hours listing things, taking
• 14:47
  photos. I made a money back.
• 14:49
  That was a win win. Another one.
• 14:51
  I hadn't been working with this person for very long and I
• 14:54
  didn't know much about the back story.
• 14:56
  She told me a few things but there was nothing, no drama as
• 14:59
  such. We were working through her
• 15:01
  bedroom because she was about to get married and they had two
• 15:04
  small children and they were just about to tie the knot
• 15:08
  literally like 4 days afterwards and the whole house needed
• 15:12
  sorting out. But she said where should we
• 15:13
  start? I said we should start with your
• 15:15
  bedroom specifically. As women, we put ourselves to
• 15:18
  the bottom of the queue and we shouldn't because we need a
• 15:24
  space. Well, everybody needs a space
• 15:26
  but us. We need a space that's ours,
• 15:31
  that's private, that is a sanctuary, that is a place where
• 15:35
  we can just breathe. And there are so many people
• 15:40
  that don't have that kids. Stuff just encroaches on your
• 15:44
  space and it never leaves. You're doing yourself a
• 15:47
  disservice because you need that space where you can recharge
• 15:51
  your batteries and refill your cup because you can't serve
• 15:54
  other people if you're not serving these.
• 15:58
  So I said to them, right, you aren't starting married life.
• 16:01
  It is essential that your bedroom is a space for you, for
• 16:05
  your new couple, for this new chapter in your life.
• 16:09
  They have hanging rail. I said, is that side yours?
• 16:13
  And backside, if I'm says and she's like, we just put clothes
• 16:17
  wherever I was like, OK, which side do you sleep on?
• 16:22
  She's like the left. So this rail is yours.
• 16:26
  And if he sits on that side, that rail is hits.
• 16:28
  Now you would think this is basic, but there are people who
• 16:32
  don't have these skills. So we introduced that system and
• 16:38
  we started going through this stuff and we found all kinds of
• 16:40
  stuff, the bill to the kids and Christmas cards, bits that were
• 16:43
  hanging around. But then we found something and
• 16:47
  I couldn't identify what it was. I found it under a big pile of
• 16:52
  stuff. It was a car seat on top and the
• 16:55
  locks of clothes and other bits, towels and then right to the
• 16:58
  bottom of this thing. And I said, oh, what's that
• 17:02
  said? She said, oh, well, that's
• 17:03
  something I should get rid of. And then the tears came.
• 17:07
  One of their children had been very ill as a baby and she'd had
• 17:13
  a tumour on a spine. Through the marvels of modern
• 17:17
  medicine, they removed her spine, removed the tumour and
• 17:22
  put the spine back. This poor baby had a full body
• 17:29
  brace because her legs had to be set in a certain position.
• 17:32
  Her body had to be in a certain position.
• 17:35
  It was 2 pieces of plastic. I looked her and said OK, you
• 17:39
  hold this. You make your peace with that
• 17:41
  time because that time is gone and you have the healthy child.
• 17:46
  You don't need this piece of plastic to remind you of the
• 17:49
  horrors you went through. That is a chapter which needs to
• 17:53
  be closed if you're ready to close it.
• 17:57
  The reason why their room was in such a mess was because of that
• 18:02
  piece of plastic. It was.
• 18:04
  Hiding. Under everything else and
• 18:06
  causing this mess. Once we got rid of that and had
• 18:10
  a bug and she was a different person.
• 18:12
  She was like right, energy came from nowhere and she was like,
• 18:15
  right, let's do this now energy. Did we finish her room?
• 18:18
  We finished the kids bedroom. We saw with all the just like a
• 18:22
  well, when it's just let's do it.
• 18:24
  And this is what I mean about these little bowls of negative
• 18:27
  energy that are just keeping you down.
• 18:30
  And when she. Released them, then literally
• 18:33
  everything is possible. I've lost words.
• 18:36
  Yeah. Apologies to anyone who's been
• 18:38
  upset by that. But it's upsetting because we're
• 18:41
  all emotional and we attach emotions to things.
• 18:45
  Sometimes it's a bit misplaced. And we tell ourselves stories.
• 18:50
  We tell ourselves that we need to keep things because they
• 18:53
  remind us of certain times. But actually, we shouldn't be
• 18:56
  reminding ourselves of those times.
• 18:58
  We need to move past it and we start living in the future and
• 19:02
  in the present people. Forget to live.
• 19:07
  For what's to come and where we are now, and this happens a lot
• 19:12
  when people are in rented accommodation or in a place
• 19:15
  where they know they're not staying for long.
• 19:18
  They say, oh, we're planning to move in 18 months, so we're not
• 19:21
  really going to do anything. That's the wrong attitude
• 19:25
  because that is stopping you enjoying the now.
• 19:28
  It's stopping you making the most of your life.
• 19:31
  Having somewhere that reflects you back at you is super
• 19:35
  important. Thank you for those examples
• 19:40
  because they really illustrate how deep grow into things and
• 19:45
  how important it is. I'm not a therapist, I'm not a
• 19:48
  counsellor, I do not deal with people's psychological or
• 19:53
  trauma. I don't deal with any of that in
• 19:55
  that we uncover these things and confront them and let them go.
• 20:00
  And it's the letting go bit. Quite often, once I've finished
• 20:03
  working with somebody, they're then ready to go on another
• 20:07
  journey and have therapy or counselling and see a
• 20:10
  professional. Up to that point, they've not
• 20:13
  had enough focus to do that because the head's just been
• 20:17
  consumed by all these things that shouldn't be there.
• 20:20
  So when talking about divorce and separation, what happens
• 20:27
  when people following a separation or a divorce need to
• 20:34
  leave their house? Sell it?
• 20:36
  How do you help them decide what to keep and what to let go?
• 20:43
  This carries on from what I've been saying.
• 20:45
  You need to create a space that represents you and that doesn't
• 20:52
  have those memories of the past that you'd rather forget.
• 20:58
  And it's difficult when you've got kids, specifically wedding
• 21:01
  photographs. They're a real Tuffy.
• 21:05
  So many times people say, what do I do with these?
• 21:08
  And I just say to them, well, you know, for you, it's a memory
• 21:14
  of a day. You've got the experience of the
• 21:18
  relationship, it's time to pass them on to the children for them
• 21:25
  to decide later what they want to do with them because they are
• 21:30
  a memory of a happy time in their parents relationship and
• 21:35
  that is something that they might want to cherish.
• 21:38
  You've got to take it on a case by case basis, obviously.
• 21:41
  Yeah, there is a time for cosatic burning and this could
• 21:46
  be 1. It really does depend and I I
• 21:49
  can't give you a blanket answer of what to do, but they need to
• 21:54
  be out of your space because they are no longer memories of
• 22:01
  happy time. Just changing the location to
• 22:05
  somewhere that is not in your bedroom.
• 22:07
  It could be in a shared space, that's fine.
• 22:10
  You know, it could be up in the moft or whatever, but not in
• 22:13
  your space. In times of separation and
• 22:15
  divorce, you need to rediscover your own identity.
• 22:22
  It happens to a lot of people in middle age anyway.
• 22:24
  Add in a separation or divorce and it becomes all the more
• 22:28
  important for you to establish who you are, who you haven't
• 22:34
  been allowed to be, who you want to be.
• 22:38
  There are several versions of you, and you might not have met
• 22:41
  her yet. You know, you need to give
• 22:44
  yourself that chance to grow, to flourish, and to start knowing
• 22:49
  yourself. That's a deep introspection.
• 22:52
  That's not going to happen overnight, but you do have the
• 22:56
  chance when you are creating a new home.
• 23:02
  We are creating a new home. It's that chance for you to
• 23:07
  discover who you are and express yourself in ways that maybe
• 23:11
  never have. It's about carving out your own
• 23:17
  space in the world. You need that century.
• 23:20
  You need that piece of you back again.
• 23:25
  Creating a home that is special to you, that represents who you
• 23:30
  are, that reflects you back at you, is super important.
• 23:36
  Thank you, because I think it speaks to a lot of our listeners
• 23:41
  because it's a time where they're completely lost.
• 23:43
  What I would say is that you're home at that time.
• 23:48
  It's really important to spend that time thinking about it and
• 23:53
  spend that time creating something.
• 23:55
  You don't have to do it all at once.
• 23:56
  If it's just one room, do your bedroom, the one place where you
• 24:01
  can escape from the rest of the world.
• 24:03
  Make that your space. It wasn't divorce or separation,
• 24:08
  but it was the reason. And it was somebody we know who
• 24:12
  was in her 70s and her husband had passed away.
• 24:15
  He was quite controlling, not in an abusive way, but yeah, the
• 24:18
  final word on everything. Robbery of almonds.
• 24:21
  Afterwards, she painted the entire house pink.
• 24:27
  Never been allowed. And he'd always come up with,
• 24:30
  oh, let's do this. Two fingers up to you.
• 24:34
  I'm painting the whole house. Absolutely.
• 24:38
  You loved it because it felt like hers.
• 24:42
  You don't have to keep the house as a mausoleum.
• 24:44
  In fact, you shouldn't because that is chaining you to the
• 24:48
  past. You need to unshuffle yourself
• 24:51
  from the past and look forward. What does the future look like?
• 24:58
  So I have a question about your work as an estate agent.
• 25:03
  When somebody needs to sell a house after a divorce or a
• 25:06
  separation, but something's holding them back, how do you
• 25:12
  help them to stage their home? How can you balance the emotions
• 25:17
  and the business side? I know you're in the state Asian
• 25:21
  who really respect the person that you're selling the house.
• 25:25
  For. How do you manage?
• 25:27
  That balance for me, no, because as I said, it's how you speak to
• 25:31
  people. I, I care about my clients and I
• 25:35
  respect them, but I'm there to do a job, get them the most
• 25:39
  money possible for that house so they can move into the next
• 25:42
  stage of their life. Because especially when you're
• 25:44
  going through divorce, you need to split the money two ways.
• 25:47
  So you need more shit. It's about reframing how people
• 25:52
  see things. The first conversation I have
• 25:54
  with people is right. So in your head you've already
• 25:58
  moved out and yes, there may be some reticence, but to start the
• 26:03
  next chapter in your life, you have to move on.
• 26:07
  And moving on does mean leaving that hope.
• 26:12
  And sometimes people just don't want to move because they're
• 26:15
  scared of the future change. But change is inevitable because
• 26:20
  you're getting a divorce, so things are going to change.
• 26:23
  They can feel alone and it's quite a pressured sort of
• 26:27
  process and there's quite a lot of stress involved on when
• 26:30
  you're having to make those decisions on your own.
• 26:33
  It's very difficult and you might not have bought or sold a
• 26:36
  house for years and you don't know how it works.
• 26:39
  The early conversations that around how the system now works
• 26:43
  because it's changed even in the last five years.
• 26:46
  If you haven't moved in 25 years, you have no idea what to
• 26:50
  do. You no longer go to the say 2
• 26:53
  did windows and see, Oh well, like I'm like the look of that.
• 26:56
  So I'll go, you know, doesn't work like that anymore.
• 26:59
  It's about explaining the process, guiding people through
• 27:02
  and explaining it in normal terms, plain English.
• 27:07
  It's helping them reframe how they see it.
• 27:10
  Letting go. It's about giving themselves
• 27:13
  permission to let go of that part of their lives.
• 27:18
  As soon as you say that to people, as soon as you say you
• 27:20
  are moving on, it is part of your journey.
• 27:23
  And so we need to see this no longer as being your home, but
• 27:27
  it's the home of the next person.
• 27:29
  And what does that person look like?
• 27:31
  Who are they? What do they do for a job?
• 27:33
  How old are they? How many kids have they got?
• 27:36
  And basically when you bought that house, that person who buys
• 27:40
  yours will be at the same stage you were when you bought it
• 27:43
  because of all the reasons that you bought it.
• 27:45
  And spot people back to the time that they were held something.
• 27:48
  What was it they were looking for?
• 27:50
  How many kids did they have? Did they have a dog?
• 27:53
  Where did they work? How did they get to work?
• 27:55
  And looking at all those things and then trying to look at the
• 27:58
  home again, objectively to say, OK, how can we fulfil the wishes
• 28:03
  and dreams of these people? Quite often when you've got a
• 28:07
  case of separation or divorce, there's negativity.
• 28:12
  You can feel it. It's about removing the
• 28:16
  negativity, which can sometimes be as easy as opening the
• 28:19
  windows, taking the personality of the owners out of the house
• 28:26
  and putting in a generic personality off the next people.
• 28:30
  So what are they going to identify with?
• 28:32
  What pictures would they like to see?
• 28:34
  What cushions would they like? And just make it appeal to the
• 28:39
  target market. And the target market is you,
• 28:42
  when you bought the house, as soon as you explain that to
• 28:45
  people, they're like, oh, yeah, cool.
• 28:48
  If I need to repaint it or do this, do that, then it's a
• 28:51
  process and a bit of a game. That fuzzy feeling you get when
• 28:55
  you walk into the house. And now this is my house.
• 28:58
  You can create that. You can miniature it.
• 29:00
  What people are falling in love with is the is the idea that
• 29:05
  that house has been a loving family home.
• 29:08
  And so if it hasn't, we need to give them the impression you
• 29:14
  fall in love with a lifestyle. We're done in space.
• 29:17
  So we need to remove all the things that don't need to be
• 29:20
  there, but also we're making it appeal to as many people as
• 29:24
  possible. And so that means just little
• 29:26
  changes here, here and there that speak to the people we
• 29:30
  wanted to speak to. It's really interesting because
• 29:34
  from the side of my clients I can feel that it's really not
• 29:38
  easy, but you make it feel achievable.
• 29:42
  Absolutely. It is overwhelming because you
• 29:44
  get into bars, there's a lot to deal with and it's not just the
• 29:49
  practical or the financial. It's a notion if people, the
• 29:54
  kids, parents, friends, if I can help ease that journey and
• 30:01
  that's what I'll do. Rachel, I'm conscious of time
• 30:05
  and I would listen to you all evening.
• 30:08
  It's the second time, I hope it has recorded this time, but I
• 30:13
  wouldn't mind doing a third. Well, it's a bit curious.
• 30:16
  Entire edition conversation. But it's still so interesting.
• 30:22
  I'm going to put all your details in the podcast now so
• 30:25
  that people know how to reach you.
• 30:27
  But for anyone who's listening and thinking, oh, I really need
• 30:32
  that kind of help, can you walk us through how?
• 30:36
  You work. As you were saying, it may not
• 30:39
  be a whole house, it can be one room.
• 30:41
  How do you meet with people? It all starts with a message.
• 30:45
  You can just send me a message or an e-mail.
• 30:47
  When you talk about people's homes, it's really personal.
• 30:50
  Most of the people that I've helped, you know, they're not
• 30:53
  the ones commenting on my posts and things because they don't
• 30:55
  want other people to know that they've got issues.
• 30:58
  So just a message is fine. It's non confrontational.
• 31:02
  They actually have to speak to me first.
• 31:04
  But I always suggest a phone call because I just want people
• 31:07
  to hear my voice so they know that I'm not here to judge.
• 31:11
  Then I will meet them in person. Often it's better just to jump
• 31:16
  in and let me see which is the worst bit because people feel
• 31:19
  like it's the words place ever and it never is.
• 31:22
  But if it's bad for you, then it's bad and it doesn't matter
• 31:28
  what I think because it's what you think and how it makes you
• 31:31
  feel. People just need a conversation.
• 31:35
  I have an N power hour where I will have a Zoom conversation
• 31:40
  with you for an hour. Because sometimes you just need
• 31:44
  a kick start. Sometimes you just need somebody
• 31:47
  to say actually if you just did this, then this would unlock the
• 31:52
  rest of it. And I've had many instances
• 31:54
  where that's happened where I just talk to people like I'm
• 31:57
  talking to you and because things are resonating with them,
• 32:00
  they're like, Oh my God, that makes so much sense.
• 32:02
  Then they go after and do their entire house.
• 32:05
  They never thought that was possible, but I've unlocked
• 32:08
  something which meant they've been ready to do it themselves.
• 32:12
  Obviously some people need a bit more hand holding.
• 32:15
  I call it a shoulder to cry and whilst giving you a kick on the
• 32:18
  backside, making a start is the most difficult bit you need to
• 32:23
  start. Then you very quickly get out of
• 32:25
  the negative cycle and into a +1.
• 32:28
  So I do go into people's houses, I do it with them, I don't do it
• 32:32
  for them because it's a journey and it's a roller coaster and
• 32:37
  you have to be on it. It's ever as bad as you think
• 32:40
  it's going to be because we always have a laugh, we always
• 32:44
  have a cry. So many, lots of hugs.
• 32:48
  Even people who are not huggers, I make them hug.
• 32:52
  They end up being huggers because they've released all the
• 32:56
  negativity and they and they know me as a person.
• 33:00
  I'm a giver. I don't take from people like
• 33:03
  and so I am giving you all the positivity, all the optimism.
• 33:08
  It just rubs off on you. Eventually.
• 33:11
  I like to do a little carpet dance when we can see enough
• 33:13
  carpet. It's anything I like to do.
• 33:17
  But it's fun. And they stare at me, like
• 33:20
  praise me. But so yeah, it's like
• 33:24
  decluttering and taking back control of the house with me by
• 33:27
  your side. It will literally change your
• 33:30
  life. People do not realise the knock
• 33:33
  on effect of taking back control of your house.
• 33:36
  I will let you go. Rachel, thank you so much for
• 33:41
  joining me today and sharing your wisdom.
• 33:44
  You've reminded us that the cluttering isn't just about
• 33:48
  tidying up. It's about creating space for
• 33:51
  calm, clarity, and even healing, especially during challenging
• 33:56
  times like separation, divorce, or moving home.
• 33:59
  What I take away from our conversation is that our homes
• 34:03
  can either drain us or support us, and with the right guidance,
• 34:07
  they can become sanctuaries where we feel safe and ready for
• 34:11
  new beginnings. For anyone who feels overwhelmed
• 34:16
  and listening, Rachel's approach shows that it's not about
• 34:20
  affection, but about progress and about making your space
• 34:24
  truly work for you. If you'd like to learn more or
• 34:28
  connect with rachelyoucanvisither@clotteristheenemy.co.uk.
• 34:35
  Thank you again, Rachel. It's been a timely and inspiring
• 34:39
  conversation.