Latest / The Week in Bible Prophecy / What the Dead Sea Scrolls Reveal About Jesus | Doug Van Dorn | The Week in Bible Prophecy

Transcript

What the Dead Sea Scrolls Reveal About Jesus | Doug Van Dorn | The Week in Bible Prophecy · The Week in Bible Prophecy

0:02
Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers Podcast.
0:08
Speaker 2: Hello everyone, Mondo Gonzalez here in studio with Doug Van
0:12
Speaker 2: Dorn and welcome to the podcast today, and we are
0:16
Speaker 2: going to be talking about his brand new book, which
0:19
Speaker 2: again I think is just so phenomenal at talking about
0:23
Speaker 2: a conspiracy.
0:24
Speaker 3: We love conspiracy here.
0:26
Speaker 2: I know most of you do you listen to this channel,
0:29
Speaker 2: but this is a conspiracy that is actually is real
0:32
Speaker 2: and he proves it in his brand new book, The
0:34
Speaker 2: Battle for the Bible's Truth. And this is we're going
0:36
Speaker 2: to be in getting in to discuss the a second
0:40
Speaker 2: century conspiracy by the Jewish Rabbis against Jesus Christ, which
0:45
Speaker 2: is no surprise on that and we'll unpack that here
0:48
Speaker 2: in a minute. But I do want to remind everybody
0:50
Speaker 2: about a couple things. Consider joining us in August. August
0:54
Speaker 2: twenty second through the twenty ninth, we are going to
0:56
Speaker 2: be going on a prophecy cruise to Alaska, and the
1:01
Speaker 2: bucket list item we're gonna see God's Glory. It's pretty phenomenal.
1:04
Speaker 2: I've got to go one other time, I think for
1:06
Speaker 2: a prophecy cruise was great. And again August twenty second
1:09
Speaker 2: through twenty ninth. Go to prophecywatchers dot com check it out.
1:13
Speaker 2: Doug welcome, Yes, sir, And for those in our audience
1:18
Speaker 2: that we've been at this table before, but it's been
1:20
Speaker 2: a couple of years, kind of introduce yourself to our audience.
1:23
Speaker 3: Who are you and what do you do? And why
1:25
Speaker 3: should people listen to you?
1:27
Speaker 1: I don't know why they should listen to me. I
1:28
Speaker 1: have no idea. For some reason, some people do, but
1:31
Speaker 1: that's good. I guess. I'm a pastor pastor for twenty
1:35
Speaker 1: five years, actually in some ways for thirty years, because
1:38
Speaker 1: I was a youth pastor before that. I still don't
1:40
Speaker 1: know how I ever got to be a pastor. It
1:42
Speaker 1: just kind of happened. I guess that's God's will for
1:44
Speaker 1: my life. And yeah, same church for twenty five years
1:48
Speaker 1: in the Boulder area, called the Reform Baptist Church of
1:51
Speaker 1: Northern Colorado. And yeah, I've started writing books fifteen years
1:57
Speaker 1: ago something like that. Ten years ago, first book on Baptism.
2:02
Speaker 1: I wrote a book and been doing a lot of podcasting,
2:06
Speaker 1: and just you know, I think I have a unique
2:09
Speaker 1: perspective on the way I approach most subjects.
2:12
Speaker 3: I think through and.
2:15
Speaker 1: People like to hear it. So I keep talking about
2:18
Speaker 1: the things.
2:19
Speaker 2: Talk about your podcast where do we find that at?
2:23
Speaker 1: So the one I'm doing right now is called Reformed Fringe,
2:27
Speaker 1: and that's on YouTube, It's on Apple whatever. So we're
2:31
Speaker 1: doing both the video and just audio. It's everywhere you
2:34
Speaker 1: can find podcasts. We actually have a community called the
2:37
Speaker 1: Reformed Fringe, just a reformfringe dot com, which is where
2:41
Speaker 1: I'm so. I'm a reform Christian. I'm trying to bridge
2:44
Speaker 1: this weird gap between reform people who are known for
2:49
Speaker 1: they really love theology but not fringy stuff, right, and
2:53
Speaker 1: then the fringe world, which really doesn't know a lot
2:56
Speaker 1: of theology, but they love the fringey stuff. And I
2:59
Speaker 1: am kind of right in the middle, and I think
3:02
Speaker 1: that both sides need each other. And so I am
3:05
Speaker 1: offering a community on the internet free from trolls and
3:10
Speaker 1: free from the crazy people that are out there. And
3:13
Speaker 1: it's been fun and it's a good place to kind
3:16
Speaker 1: of come and learn about both of these things. Feel
3:18
Speaker 1: free to talk about the weird stuff, but also you'll
3:20
Speaker 1: get some good theology in the meantime.
3:22
Speaker 2: You know, you are my brother from another mother because
3:26
Speaker 2: that's my life is I love precision, I love theology.
3:30
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess if I was to define myself,
3:33
Speaker 2: I would call myself a systematic theologian because that's just
3:35
Speaker 2: that's where my brain is. But then, but yet, throughout
3:38
Speaker 2: my life, I've always been drawn to French. Yeah you know,
3:42
Speaker 2: I mean it's just JFK.
3:44
Speaker 3: Did we go to the Moon?
3:45
Speaker 2: Yeah?
3:45
Speaker 3: You name it.
3:46
Speaker 2: Everything was like, oh Bigfoot, you know, all the whole again.
3:48
Speaker 1: You've seen In Search of with Leonard Nimoy way back
3:51
Speaker 1: in the day. And I just found out. I guess
3:53
Speaker 1: Shatner's been doing one on History Channel for like seven
3:58
Speaker 1: years and I didn't know that until just reach and
4:00
Speaker 1: I'm like, this show is awesome. Yeah, and ninety five
4:02
Speaker 1: year old William Shatner taught. I mean, the way he
4:05
Speaker 1: delivers his performance is just so fantastic. I'm so glad
4:10
Speaker 1: he's still around.
4:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's doing it. I've seen many of those episodes.
4:13
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, man, good job. And as you know,
4:15
Speaker 2: the topics are fun and but here you know again,
4:19
Speaker 2: you you obviously knew Michael Heiser.
4:22
Speaker 3: You know, there's a there's a whole.
4:25
Speaker 2: Group or all the stuff that that Heiser brought out,
4:30
Speaker 2: which is so important. And you know, again if you,
4:34
Speaker 2: if you, you don't have to agree with Heiser on
4:36
Speaker 2: everything in order to appreciate the stuff that he did,
4:39
Speaker 2: especially with his PhD dissertation kind of blowing the world
4:43
Speaker 2: out of what I see this very sanitized view of
4:48
Speaker 2: the Bible, a d are a non supernatural view of
4:52
Speaker 2: the Bible. And he's like, can we just get back
4:54
Speaker 2: to the Bible. And of course, you know, he got
4:56
Speaker 2: a speech and the Old Testament in Wisconsin, which was great,
5:02
Speaker 2: but he's I think he's reminding people and he'll say this,
5:06
Speaker 2: you've heard it.
5:07
Speaker 3: He goes, look, I have nothing original.
5:10
Speaker 2: I just the stuff that was in the academic literature
5:12
Speaker 2: for centuries in the Old Testament world, my academic backgrounds
5:16
Speaker 2: in the Old Testament. And so to see all that,
5:18
Speaker 2: he goes, I just brought it out, and he kind
5:20
Speaker 2: of he'd certainly tied it together. I think he's being
5:22
Speaker 2: humble there. So within this comes your book. You on
5:27
Speaker 2: the back of this, the new book, you say, this
5:29
Speaker 2: is probably the most important work that you've written.
5:31
Speaker 3: What makes you say that?
5:32
Speaker 1: Because I think it's true, that's as simple of it.
5:36
Speaker 1: But it's because it exposes a plot that helps me
5:43
Speaker 1: make sense of how it is that you can have
5:46
Speaker 1: a modern day Jewish person and this goes back now
5:50
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred years Jewish person that is essentially Unitarian in
5:54
Speaker 1: their belief about God. For people that don't Unitarian would
5:58
Speaker 1: believe that there's one God, one person. So there's no
6:01
Speaker 1: such thing as a godhead there Islam. Yeah, very deistic.
6:07
Speaker 1: I mean, there's all kinds of Unitarian religions that are
6:10
Speaker 1: out there, but modern Judaism that's what it is. And
6:13
Speaker 1: yet there's all this scholarship that Mike was helping people
6:19
Speaker 1: acquainting them with. That shows from Alan Segall's book Two
6:24
Speaker 1: Powers in Heaven to Daniel Boyer in Who's over I
6:28
Speaker 1: think he's in Berkeley or something like that, writing on
6:31
Speaker 1: the Gospel of John as a Jew talking about how
6:35
Speaker 1: the first century Jews have an ability to understand that
6:39
Speaker 1: there was essentially a Godhead. Now it might not have
6:42
Speaker 1: been as fully developed as Christians and Trinitarianism, but they
6:45
Speaker 1: call it Banetarianism. So by would be two instead of
6:48
Speaker 1: try which is three, so you'd have two persons of
6:51
Speaker 1: a godhead. Idea that was very comfortable for a lot
6:57
Speaker 1: of the rabbis to believe this, and then you find
7:00
Speaker 1: authors like John in his Gospel, who you know, I
7:05
Speaker 1: heard that John is writing to proto gnostics, Christian heretics,
7:11
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, and it's like, no, actually, he
7:14
Speaker 1: was writing to Jews, Jews about an Old Testament reality
7:20
Speaker 1: about Jesus that we have lost, and so we can't
7:23
Speaker 1: even get the setting of his gospel, right. That's wild
7:28
Speaker 1: to me. So I think it's that this is so
7:30
Speaker 1: important because it explains to me why Judaism shifted, because
7:36
Speaker 1: there was a deliberate plot to subvert Christianity, which was
7:40
Speaker 1: originally just kind of considered a Jewish heresy and not
7:43
Speaker 1: its own religion, or even just a Jewish sect, a
7:46
Speaker 1: Jewish sect, not even a heresy. It was just okay.
7:51
Speaker 1: So that's what some of the Jews think, is that
7:52
Speaker 1: this is their Messiah. And then it gives you the
7:55
Speaker 1: tools and the power to be able to show a
7:58
Speaker 1: Jewish unbeliever from their own scripture what happened and why
8:03
Speaker 1: it is that they're actually not believing what they used
8:05
Speaker 1: to believe.
8:06
Speaker 3: They used to.
8:06
Speaker 2: Believe, you know, just for those that you know, the
8:09
Speaker 2: clarity here is that in the first century. We know
8:13
Speaker 2: this from the Dead Seas scrolls and primarily from Josephus,
8:16
Speaker 2: but you have the scenes which were everywhere, not just
8:19
Speaker 2: down to the Kumaran. And then you have you know,
8:21
Speaker 2: Joseph's talking about the Sadducees in their particular theology and philosophy,
8:25
Speaker 2: as well as the Pharisees. You might if you throw
8:27
Speaker 2: on the zalaz of their Horodians, it's a very diverse.
8:31
Speaker 2: But seventy eight D comes that the Sadducees are eliminated,
8:36
Speaker 2: the temples destroyed in the Acenes scatter, and so you
8:40
Speaker 2: have this group the Pharisees, which certainly there were rabbis.
8:44
Speaker 3: Jesus himself was called a rabbi.
8:46
Speaker 2: But you have the Pharisee group, which of course were
8:49
Speaker 2: primarily responsible for killing Jesus and persecuting Paul. Many of
8:54
Speaker 2: the Pharisees got saved. We see that Acts fifteen and
8:57
Speaker 2: others passages. So it's not this isn't a wholesale a nation.
9:00
Speaker 2: But after seventy a D talk about the they shift
9:05
Speaker 2: over to you know today you'd call it Yamnia.
9:09
Speaker 3: You know on the coast.
9:11
Speaker 2: They they's post seventy eighty they get an opportunity. The
9:14
Speaker 2: Roman government allows them to have this non Jerusalem centered
9:18
Speaker 2: community and there they begin to establish this their own,
9:23
Speaker 2: their own monolithic view of Judaism now turning into Rabbinic viewpoints.
9:29
Speaker 2: But they also need to say, hey, we're still dealing
9:32
Speaker 2: with these Christians, well these Jewish they remember, these are
9:34
Speaker 2: Messianic Jews. We're still dealing with them. But we need
9:38
Speaker 2: to come find a way to subvert or diminish the
9:44
Speaker 2: persuasiveness of this. And so they begin to I would say,
9:49
Speaker 2: have their own canonization kind of program. They're document which
9:54
Speaker 2: books do we have, which is which is authoritative?
9:58
Speaker 3: So with that as a backdrop, then.
10:01
Speaker 2: How does that play into the intentions which again this
10:07
Speaker 2: conspiracy and maybe even again take some time here bring
10:10
Speaker 2: up the XX what that even means to imagine, you know,
10:14
Speaker 2: give us the background there of the timing of all this.
10:17
Speaker 1: Now, the timing is not coincidental. They've lost their temple
10:21
Speaker 1: in seventy eighty and so they're scattered and they're not
10:24
Speaker 1: able to have centralized worship. They're not able to offer
10:27
Speaker 1: sacrifices all the things that they did. And then furthermore,
10:32
Speaker 1: there's revolts that are taking place later in the early
10:35
Speaker 1: second century. That's just I mean, it's splitting and ripping
10:39
Speaker 1: the entire religion apart. There's a diaspora, so they're all
10:43
Speaker 1: over the place. These guys are able to have a
10:45
Speaker 1: centralized power control. But like you said, there's all these Christians.
10:50
Speaker 1: And I think probably part of it also had to
10:52
Speaker 1: do with the fact that it wasn't just Jews converting.
10:54
Speaker 1: It's also starts to be gentiles too, once Paul goes out.
10:57
Speaker 1: And so here you have, as Paul talks about in
11:01
Speaker 1: his letters, out of two people, you have one person.
11:04
Speaker 1: One people that are made, which are those who are
11:08
Speaker 1: in Christ. There is no distinction between Jew and gentile
11:10
Speaker 1: for them, and like this is a major threat not
11:16
Speaker 1: just to the religion in general, but to their power
11:19
Speaker 1: and persuasiveness over the people.
11:22
Speaker 2: So and I would say, let me just add this
11:25
Speaker 2: and over the understanding of the Old Testament. And because
11:28
Speaker 2: you have this other group, these Christian Gibbs now saying, hey,
11:30
Speaker 2: that's our book too. Now, well, of course there's Jews
11:33
Speaker 2: and Gentiles, but they're saying, no, our New Testament scriptures
11:36
Speaker 2: are based on that book.
11:38
Speaker 1: And they obviously yeah, exactly, because like you said it
11:41
Speaker 1: was a Jewish sect, and so I call the New
11:45
Speaker 1: Testament a commentary on the inspired commentary on the Old Testament.
11:48
Speaker 1: It's all it is, yep. It is how you're supposed
11:51
Speaker 1: to be reading the Old Testament. This is not just
11:54
Speaker 1: words drop from heaven that all of a sudden magically
11:58
Speaker 1: people just start believing things that are just being made
12:01
Speaker 1: up by the disciples. Now they're quoting the Old Testament
12:04
Speaker 1: all the time because this is their authority for where
12:07
Speaker 1: they get what they believe. So and it's not I
12:12
Speaker 1: get that there's gentiles that are, you know, helping to
12:16
Speaker 1: develop the theology. But in the first century Judaism, you
12:21
Speaker 1: had disagreements within within Judaism itself over the nature of
12:25
Speaker 1: a godhead, over the nature of what Segal called two
12:29
Speaker 1: powers in heaven. In fact, the rabbis called it two
12:32
Speaker 1: powers in heaven. It wasn't their language. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
12:35
Speaker 1: they're using the language, and so you had I think
12:37
Speaker 1: Seagal says that the it was kind of an undercurrent,
12:41
Speaker 1: and it wasn't the main stream to believe in two powers,
12:44
Speaker 1: but it was an undercurrent that was very powerful that
12:48
Speaker 1: a lot of people said, yeah, this makes a lot
12:50
Speaker 1: of sense.
12:51
Speaker 2: Let's define the two powers for a moment, I mean,
12:53
Speaker 2: unpacked that just to hear.
12:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, so two powers. It's you use the language of
12:57
Speaker 1: power instead of gods. So you're not saying to God.
13:00
Speaker 1: Because we were Jews, we only believe in one God.
13:03
Speaker 1: I can't say that, right, But you don't want to
13:05
Speaker 1: say gods because if you say gods, now that lessens
13:09
Speaker 1: the second power to some sort of a created entity.
13:12
Speaker 1: And the problem is like, how do you talk about
13:15
Speaker 1: the way that this second figure in your Hebrew scripture
13:20
Speaker 1: is being talked about? Well, you can use the biblical
13:23
Speaker 1: language like the name of God or the Word of
13:27
Speaker 1: God or Yahweh. Sometimes he's just called Yahweh, and you
13:31
Speaker 1: have two Yahwehs in one verse, or sometimes you have
13:34
Speaker 1: two eloheman one verse. But they're both clearly the same God.
13:38
Speaker 1: And so this was very confusing to the rabbis, and
13:41
Speaker 1: they're like, what are we to make of this? And
13:43
Speaker 1: some said, well, it's a mistake, and some said just
13:48
Speaker 1: move along, don't pay attention to it, and some said
13:50
Speaker 1: there's something to see here. We actually think that God
13:53
Speaker 1: is revealing himself in two powers, both good powers. They're
13:58
Speaker 1: equal equal. This isn't Manichism, it's not a Zoroastrianism. It's
14:04
Speaker 1: not dualism with good and evil battling it out or something.
14:08
Speaker 1: And that was that was a big discussion happening in
14:13
Speaker 1: the first century.
14:14
Speaker 2: So let's just so people understand that you have Jews Orthodox,
14:19
Speaker 2: not not in the modern Orthodox sense, but you have
14:22
Speaker 2: good Jews in the time recognizing, hey, we have you know, Yahweh,
14:28
Speaker 2: and we have the Angel of Yahweh, the Angel Lord,
14:30
Speaker 2: that guy, that guy seems to be all. He seems
14:32
Speaker 2: to have just as much authority. He's claiming things that
14:34
Speaker 2: Yahweh said. And so they're recognizing, man, we can't get
14:39
Speaker 2: around our own scriptures. The scriptures teach. And that's what
14:43
Speaker 2: Alan Sagall in his book you Know the Two Powers
14:45
Speaker 2: of have and there's a few other books too that
14:46
Speaker 2: described as from a non Christian perspective, this is just
14:49
Speaker 2: what the Jews were doing. So there's this discussion and
14:52
Speaker 2: then here enters Jesus right in the midst of this,
14:56
Speaker 2: these discussions that are happening, claiming to be ultimately this
15:01
Speaker 2: second figure, this is the second.
15:03
Speaker 1: Figure, and using language like this in Genesis fifteen one,
15:07
Speaker 1: it says the word of God came to Abram in
15:12
Speaker 1: a vision. There's something wrong with the sentence because words
15:16
Speaker 1: that we're using right now don't come to my vision.
15:19
Speaker 1: You do because your body, but your words are coming
15:22
Speaker 1: to my ears, they're not coming to my eyes. So
15:24
Speaker 1: how can the word come to your vision? Well, there's
15:28
Speaker 1: because it's a second power. Here's another good one. This
15:31
Speaker 1: is Isaiah thirty twenty seven. Behold, the name of the
15:34
Speaker 1: Lord comes from Afar, burning with his anger, and in
15:39
Speaker 1: thick rising smoke. His lips are full of fury. The
15:43
Speaker 1: name is a him?
15:46
Speaker 3: What person?
15:47
Speaker 1: So, yeah, I think it was more than personification. It's
15:51
Speaker 1: like it's a it's.
15:52
Speaker 3: A literal personification.
15:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's there's a technical term for this, like a
16:00
Speaker 1: subsistence or something like. There's there's something that's that's a
16:05
Speaker 1: it's personal. So you find John's Gospel actually writing about
16:10
Speaker 1: this very thing. In the beginning was the Word, and
16:12
Speaker 1: the word was with God, and the word was God. Well,
16:17
Speaker 1: what word? It's not some gnostic, platonic, dualistic Greek thing.
16:23
Speaker 1: It's the person that was in Genesis fifteen one, who
16:27
Speaker 1: came to Abram in a vision. Or you'll see that.
16:30
Speaker 1: John goes on it's to talk about how the true light,
16:33
Speaker 1: which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.
16:36
Speaker 1: That's talking about the incarnation. He was in the world.
16:40
Speaker 1: I was talking about before the incarnation, and the world
16:43
Speaker 1: was made through him. That's Classan's one language. The world
16:46
Speaker 1: did not know him. He came to his own and
16:49
Speaker 1: his own people did not receive him when when he
16:52
Speaker 1: was a little kid walking around a galley. No in
16:54
Speaker 1: the old Covenant, and then listen to this, but to
16:57
Speaker 1: all who did receive him, who believed in his name name,
17:03
Speaker 1: the name of God comes from Afar, burning with his anger.
17:07
Speaker 1: And John will use language like the word, the name,
17:11
Speaker 1: the glory, the arm, all kinds of things in his
17:15
Speaker 1: gospel that these two powers. Rabbis were saying, well, that's
17:19
Speaker 1: the second person. And what he's saying is yeah, and
17:22
Speaker 1: now he's incarnated, and he's this person right here in
17:26
Speaker 1: front of you named Jesus of Nazareth. He's all of
17:29
Speaker 1: those yep, and he's God. And so this you imagine
17:37
Speaker 1: the political context, imagine the religious context. Now in the
17:40
Speaker 1: second century, you have the power within you to control
17:46
Speaker 1: very tightly the reception of the Hebrew text, but you
17:50
Speaker 1: don't have any power over the Greek text. And that's
17:53
Speaker 1: where you said define the LXX. That's just shorthand for
17:56
Speaker 1: Roman numeral seventy, and that stands for the seventy translators
18:01
Speaker 1: that translated the Hebrew Scripture into Greek in Alexandria, in Egypt.
18:07
Speaker 1: And this had been disseminated far and wide across the
18:10
Speaker 1: Roman Empire, and so it's in Greek, and so now
18:13
Speaker 1: Gentiles can read this too as well as Greek speaking Jews,
18:17
Speaker 1: and the New Testament authors are quoting from the Subtuagen
18:21
Speaker 1: probably more often than they quote from the Hebrew test.
18:23
Speaker 2: I mean I've read eighty percent of the time.
18:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it's very high. And so how do you
18:30
Speaker 1: control this? All of a sudden, We're losing hundreds thousands
18:34
Speaker 1: of our own rabbis and priests to this Christianity thing.
18:38
Speaker 1: We've lost our worship center, We've lost our ability to
18:41
Speaker 1: worship God the way he commands us to. We're losing
18:44
Speaker 1: our power. What do we do? And so a concerted
18:48
Speaker 1: effort was made to change the interpretation, and sometimes the
18:59
Speaker 1: words and sometimes sentences were added or deleted from their
19:05
Speaker 1: own text and from the translations of texts that they
19:08
Speaker 1: commissioned in order to change the way people had understood
19:14
Speaker 1: passages universally since they were originally written.
19:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, just for I want to provide a
19:21
Speaker 2: little context here in the sense that when a person
19:27
Speaker 2: opens their Bible up, let's say they're reading, Fine, I
19:29
Speaker 2: was reading the King James. Let's just go back there.
19:31
Speaker 2: They open up the King James, they go to the
19:34
Speaker 2: New Testament. Maybe they're reading the Book of Hebrews and
19:36
Speaker 2: they're going, oh, okay, I'm reading the Book of Hebrews.
19:38
Speaker 2: Of course, we know the tw test was written in
19:40
Speaker 2: Greek and the Old Testament translated in sixteen eleven basically finalized.
19:46
Speaker 2: The Old Testament was translated from the Hebrews from the
19:49
Speaker 2: Hebrew Masterootic text. The oldest text we have is basically
19:53
Speaker 2: one thousand and eighty the Leningrad Codex. So that's not
19:56
Speaker 2: very that's not very long ago. So the King Jim's Geneva,
20:01
Speaker 2: you know, even going back to Tyndale, that they were
20:03
Speaker 2: looking at these Hebrew texts that were basically late, so
20:06
Speaker 2: they translate the Old Testament in from Hebrew. It wasn't
20:09
Speaker 2: translated from the Greek Old Testament, so they were translated
20:13
Speaker 2: from the Hebrew, like, let's do the Hebrew going back
20:14
Speaker 2: to Jerome even right, Let's use Hebrew for the Old Testament,
20:18
Speaker 2: which again makes sense. But then I just encourage people
20:21
Speaker 2: that if you read the Book of Hebrews and in
20:24
Speaker 2: Hebrew chapter one, it's talking about Jesus being superior to
20:27
Speaker 2: the angels, and then it's quoting Doudomi thirty two, and
20:30
Speaker 2: you see the quote, let all the angels of God
20:32
Speaker 2: worship him. I encourage you find the link right there
20:36
Speaker 2: Toudami thirty two. Go to your Old Testament and read
20:39
Speaker 2: that and you're gonna And I did this as a
20:41
Speaker 2: new Christian, so I'm like, wait a minute, why is
20:43
Speaker 2: there a difference here? I'm reading this quote, but when
20:45
Speaker 2: I go back to look in my Old Testament it's different.
20:49
Speaker 2: And so explain what I was experiencing there.
20:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great It's one of the central texts
20:58
Speaker 1: that they were manipulating. This is Deuteronomy thirty to forty three. Yeah,
21:06
Speaker 1: so what you're pointing out is the fact that Hebrews.
21:10
Speaker 1: It's amazing because they didn't have control over Hebrews. That's
21:14
Speaker 1: a Christian text. They had control over Deuteronomy in the
21:17
Speaker 1: Hebrew but not in the Greek. Because there were so
21:20
Speaker 1: many copies of the Greek they couldn't do anything about it.
21:23
Speaker 3: So when you read the Hebrew.
21:27
Speaker 1: Today's Hebrew masoretic texts, it will say, rejoice ow nations
21:31
Speaker 1: with his people, for he will avenge the blood of
21:35
Speaker 1: his servants, and he will render vengeance on his adversaries. Okay,
21:40
Speaker 1: nothing to see here. So where in the world is
21:43
Speaker 1: Hebrews getting that quote about the angels. Well, when you
21:47
Speaker 1: go in to read the Dead Sea scrolls, it says,
21:51
Speaker 1: rejoice with him, oh heavens, bow down to him all gods.
21:56
Speaker 1: And then there is that become all gods in that
22:00
Speaker 1: in the septuagen the Greek translation rejoice you Heaven's with him,
22:06
Speaker 1: and let all the angels of God worship him. Rejoice
22:09
Speaker 1: you gentiles with this people, and let all the sons
22:12
Speaker 1: of God strengthen themselves in him. That completely drops out
22:17
Speaker 1: of the Hebrew text, Gone, gone, vanished. They literally erased
22:21
Speaker 1: it from their own Bible.
22:22
Speaker 2: Okay, this is what I want people to understand. Here,
22:25
Speaker 2: you have in the New Testament. Hebrews is an inspired
22:29
Speaker 2: book by the Holy Spirit. It's quoting an ancient text.
22:33
Speaker 2: Here in this case the Septuagent version. And then when
22:36
Speaker 2: you go even if you're if you maybe you're not
22:39
Speaker 2: even reading, maybe you read Hebrew, fine, read Hebrew. You
22:41
Speaker 2: go to this Masterotic text from nine hundred and eighty
22:43
Speaker 2: to you know, the Aleppo Codex is you know, mostly there,
22:47
Speaker 2: that's the oldest. Okay, you go there and you're like,
22:49
Speaker 2: I don't see that, and then you open up the
22:52
Speaker 2: Dead Sea Scrolls and you're like, whoa. If I compare
22:55
Speaker 2: the Hebrew Dead Sea Scrolls and the old Sebtuagent Greek,
22:58
Speaker 2: those match up. But I get to this ninth tenth
23:01
Speaker 2: century Hebrew Masoretic Jewish rabbinic text, it's gone, and you go,
23:08
Speaker 2: what happened? What's the original? Well, certainly the older is better,
23:12
Speaker 2: and the older matches with the New Testament, which we trust.
23:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a major point on this one. And so
23:19
Speaker 1: I'm glad you actually use this verse because we actually
23:21
Speaker 1: have an inspired New Testament use of Angel, which originally
23:27
Speaker 1: would have been Elohem and the Hebrew. And there's no
23:31
Speaker 1: way if you're a Christian, sorry, you cannot argue your
23:33
Speaker 1: way out of that unless you want to deny the
23:36
Speaker 1: infallibility of the Book of Hebrews.
23:38
Speaker 3: Yep, one hundred percent.
23:40
Speaker 1: So what.
23:41
Speaker 2: You know, for those listening, what Doug is showing in
23:44
Speaker 2: this book, which is so phenomenal, is hey, everybody, pay attention.
23:48
Speaker 2: This is just one example, and you unpack a whole bunch.
23:52
Speaker 2: This is just one example that these rabbinic Jews, because
23:55
Speaker 2: of their hatred for Jesus. Okay, we're not this is
23:57
Speaker 2: not anti Semitism. We're talking about a very specific group
24:01
Speaker 2: here for control, for power, for other reasons, they chose
24:05
Speaker 2: we have got to minimize, we have got to remove
24:08
Speaker 2: things from their own Hebrew text for the sake of,
24:12
Speaker 2: like you said, judaism, and to minimize the power of
24:16
Speaker 2: the message that Jesus certainly fulfilled.
24:18
Speaker 3: And we're going to forever change this.
24:21
Speaker 2: That second century, let's just say, was solidified in two
24:25
Speaker 2: hundred a d. From that point forward, anybody that would
24:29
Speaker 2: read the Hebrew Testament as a Jew moved to be
24:32
Speaker 2: mostly Jews. I imagine they are now not going to.
24:35
Speaker 1: See they will have no idea that it ever was
24:37
Speaker 1: at least different, And in fact, that actually gets into
24:41
Speaker 1: fact into how much you can trust the scripture, because
24:44
Speaker 1: they knew and rightly so, that the rabbis would never
24:48
Speaker 1: do anything to alter the text. This was their entire
24:52
Speaker 1: mission was to preserve the text as faithfully as they could.
24:55
Speaker 1: And we know from like the Isaiah scroll at the
24:58
Speaker 1: Dead Sea Scrolls, comparing that to what we have in
25:01
Speaker 1: modern Isaiah, it's almost exactly word for word. So it
25:05
Speaker 1: is incredibly trustworthy, which all all that does. It's the
25:10
Speaker 1: trustworthiness of the Hebrew text that we have today that
25:15
Speaker 1: is what makes this all the more powerful because when
25:18
Speaker 1: you see that they did this with at least four
25:21
Speaker 1: different Sons of God texts in Deuteronic thirty two forty three,
25:27
Speaker 1: Deuteronomy thirty two eight, Genesis six four, Psalm eighty two,
25:32
Speaker 1: verse one, and there's only ten of these in all
25:35
Speaker 1: of the Old Testament, it's like something something is afoot here,
25:39
Speaker 1: right yep.
25:40
Speaker 2: And so again the what Doug has done again, which
25:46
Speaker 2: you know what I've I've read other books because you
25:48
Speaker 2: go back to talk about Trifle, you know.
25:51
Speaker 3: Justin Martyr to Trifle the gay.
25:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Justin makes a claim and he makes his
25:57
Speaker 2: claim and you're like, that's been there for a long time.
26:00
Speaker 3: I mean you're talking one hundred and fifty a d.
26:01
Speaker 2: He makes his claim and you're like, I imagine many
26:05
Speaker 2: church fathers like you know, what's he saying or anybody
26:07
Speaker 2: that's reading, like what do.
26:09
Speaker 3: They do about the text. So he calls them out.
26:11
Speaker 2: He calls again, trifle the jew out at least, whether
26:15
Speaker 2: it's fiction or not. Nevertheless, he makes his claim, talk
26:18
Speaker 2: about what he accused them of.
26:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's He's not the only one. There's several
26:22
Speaker 1: several church fathers around the same time that they did this.
26:26
Speaker 1: Justin's so interesting because he's one of our very earliest
26:29
Speaker 1: church fathers. Like we label them disciples apostles, and then
26:35
Speaker 1: apostolic fathers, which are like people that knew them, and
26:39
Speaker 1: then everybody else's church father and that goes on for
26:42
Speaker 1: hundreds of years. Justin's one of our very very first
26:45
Speaker 1: church fathers. And he says to his opponent, in his
26:51
Speaker 1: apologetic defense of Christianity, his Jewish opponent, your rabbis have
26:56
Speaker 1: absolutely expunged many passages out of the subtuagen version, as
27:02
Speaker 1: I would have you to know. Still, I will argue
27:05
Speaker 1: with you even from those received passages which you still allow,
27:10
Speaker 1: which if your rabbis had understood, be assured, they would
27:13
Speaker 1: have expunged them too.
27:15
Speaker 2: I mean this is like Mike drop Okay, he's saying
27:19
Speaker 2: so crystal clear that even this early. Yeah, so that
27:22
Speaker 2: shows you kind of the time frame that again when
27:25
Speaker 2: you see some of the Jewish work that again, if
27:29
Speaker 2: you go to Yavne Yamni or whatever, that's the different
27:31
Speaker 2: ways you can pronounce that languages. On the coast just
27:35
Speaker 2: south of Caesarea Maritima, there you have this Jewish group
27:40
Speaker 2: that is now again solidifying their religion because again its
27:42
Speaker 2: just said, it's chaos.
27:44
Speaker 3: So even then, this is one fifty.
27:46
Speaker 2: Even thereage Justin is able to recognize, Hey, when I'm
27:50
Speaker 2: looking at your Hebrew text and I'm looking at the
27:54
Speaker 2: Subtuogen or maybe an older Hebrew text like the Dead
27:57
Speaker 2: Sea Scrolls as an example, that new text, they've expunged
28:01
Speaker 2: some things out of it.
28:01
Speaker 1: There they've been taken away, they've been erased. And that's
28:05
Speaker 1: wild because Justin's born in in one d ad and
28:09
Speaker 1: he you know, he's flourishing one fifty one sixty, and
28:13
Speaker 1: so he's he's like, this happened a while ago. Yeah,
28:17
Speaker 1: Now how far back do you go? Well, I think
28:20
Speaker 1: you have hints of it even in the first century
28:23
Speaker 1: that Paul knew something was afoot when he's talking to
28:26
Speaker 1: Timothy and Titus in Ephesus. Now, ephis is a place
28:30
Speaker 1: that tried to kill him, and it's it was always
28:33
Speaker 1: the rabbis and every synaggue that he went to. It's
28:35
Speaker 1: not the gentiles who were trying. It's the rabbis in
28:37
Speaker 1: those cities that are so angry about what he's saying.
28:42
Speaker 1: And he goes, I want you to beware of Jewish myths,
28:48
Speaker 1: about Jewish myths and genealogies. Effectively, he brings two things
28:52
Speaker 1: up there, and we talked about this on the TV
28:54
Speaker 1: show that the myths there are not talking about Greek
28:58
Speaker 1: mythology or Ordic mythology or something like that. That doesn't
29:02
Speaker 1: even make sense. What kind of a person would what
29:05
Speaker 1: kind of a Christian would take Thor seriously and Odin
29:08
Speaker 1: as a threat because he says that these things are
29:11
Speaker 1: direct threats to the Gospel of Jesus, and so, well,
29:15
Speaker 1: what's he talking about. Well, we know that there that
29:19
Speaker 1: there were other problems not just with Sons of God
29:21
Speaker 1: text but genealogy texts like the Sons of shem the
29:26
Speaker 1: Son of Noah. He gives a whole genesis. What is
29:30
Speaker 1: that five and ten, five and ten. Yeah, So Genesis
29:33
Speaker 1: ten gives you this list of all the sons of
29:36
Speaker 1: Sham down to Abram, and it tells you how long
29:38
Speaker 1: they lived when they had their kid, and we Tennis's
29:43
Speaker 1: table of nations, and and so you find that when
29:48
Speaker 1: you add up the numbers that the Hebrew text gives
29:52
Speaker 1: you a certain length of time that allows, when you
29:55
Speaker 1: draw it on a chart, that Shm himself, the son
29:59
Speaker 1: of Noah, to actually be living in the days of Abraham.
30:01
Speaker 1: I can remember why I was a kid, going, that's.
30:03
Speaker 4: Amazing, that's amazing. Oh, I thought the same, that's so cools.
30:06
Speaker 4: It's a here on my graph right in my study Bible.
30:08
Speaker 4: So it's got to be true. But then you go
30:10
Speaker 4: and you read the septuagen and you find out, wait
30:13
Speaker 4: a minute, six hundred and fifty years of history are gone,
30:18
Speaker 4: magically erased from the text, that just don't exist, which
30:22
Speaker 4: means that chem actually died hundreds of years before Abraham
30:26
Speaker 4: was ever born.
30:27
Speaker 1: Well, why does that matter? Why would somebody do that?
30:30
Speaker 1: That's not an accident. Do you have the number one
30:32
Speaker 1: thousand in six verses in a row and it just
30:35
Speaker 1: magically disappears well, there was actually a very nefarious reason
30:39
Speaker 1: why they would do this, and it's because there was
30:42
Speaker 1: all this belief, and we know this from the Dead
30:44
Speaker 1: Sea scrolls that milkiz a deck too. Abraham meets and
30:48
Speaker 1: gives a tenth of everything he has, to which Hebrews
30:51
Speaker 1: spends three chapters talking about this deck and says things like, hey,
30:56
Speaker 1: he's without father and mother, he's without genealogy.
30:59
Speaker 3: He's with out end of days.
31:01
Speaker 1: And you read that and you go, it can't possibly
31:03
Speaker 1: mean what it says. It means. It must just mean
31:06
Speaker 1: the Bible didn't record his genealogy. Oh no, that's not
31:10
Speaker 1: what these Jews thought. They thought that he was actually
31:13
Speaker 1: the Angel of the Lord and was God himself. There's
31:16
Speaker 1: a verse in Isaiah sixty one that talked that Jesus
31:20
Speaker 1: actually opens his ministry in Nazareth, opens the scroll of
31:24
Speaker 1: Isaiah to Isaiah sixty one and says, the year of
31:29
Speaker 1: Yahweh's favor is now upon you. In the Dead Sea
31:32
Speaker 1: scroll it reads the year of Melchizedek's favor is upon you.
31:37
Speaker 1: What so, the rabbis knew that Christians were claiming that
31:41
Speaker 1: Melchizedek is the Angel of the Lord, and that he
31:44
Speaker 1: incarnated as Jesus Christ and became one of us, and
31:48
Speaker 1: so we got to stop that nonsense. Everybody knows that's
31:52
Speaker 1: not even possible anyway. So oh, I got an idea,
31:56
Speaker 1: why don't we drop six hundred and fifty years or ads? Yeah,
32:00
Speaker 1: remove remove six hundred and fifty years from our history.
32:03
Speaker 1: That way we can say that who would be a
32:06
Speaker 1: good a good person to be Melchizdic Shim? What better person?
32:11
Speaker 1: He's the son of Noah and our great ancestor in
32:14
Speaker 1: the line of Abraham.
32:15
Speaker 3: The Semitic people.
32:15
Speaker 1: Right next thing, you know, all of a sudden, a
32:18
Speaker 1: new myth is born, which is that Melchizedic is actually Shim.
32:22
Speaker 1: And how to get there through a messing with genealogies?
32:26
Speaker 1: What does Paul say, don't listen to Jewish myths and
32:30
Speaker 1: fables and genealogies, like wow, that was that was happening
32:35
Speaker 1: in the fifties AD. So if you have one hundred
32:39
Speaker 1: years to let this kind of work its way into
32:42
Speaker 1: your you've thought about it a long time and now
32:45
Speaker 1: you have the power, and so you just go about
32:47
Speaker 1: doing it.
32:48
Speaker 2: Yep. I encourage anybody to get out. You know, you
32:51
Speaker 2: can find the usually it's the LEXX Brenton translation eighteen fifty.
32:57
Speaker 2: And get out the English and look at Genesis five
32:59
Speaker 2: and left, and then get out your normal, normal Bible.
33:02
Speaker 2: Just get your EESV out and then look at in
33:05
Speaker 2: at the numbers, and you'll see, oh, Adam was two
33:09
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty, and in the sept Tuogen, oh he's
33:11
Speaker 2: a one thirty ryer. And then you see it's very
33:14
Speaker 2: hundred hundred hundred, wait, two thirty one thirty, and then
33:17
Speaker 2: all of them are dropped by at exactly one hundred,
33:20
Speaker 2: and you think, well, how is that? Well, the interesting
33:21
Speaker 2: thing about it is if you go to Josephus, Josephus
33:26
Speaker 2: matches with the Septuagen, and so you have and you
33:30
Speaker 2: have other versions like the Samaritan it agrees.
33:35
Speaker 3: So you have three.
33:35
Speaker 2: You have Josephus, the Samaritan, Pentituke, and you have basically
33:40
Speaker 2: the Septuogen. All three of those are in agreement, ain't
33:43
Speaker 2: They're ancient texts. And then you have the Loan the
33:47
Speaker 2: lone range dra out here, which is the rabbinic text.
33:50
Speaker 2: And they have removed things in order to fulfill this
33:52
Speaker 2: idea that again shem met Abraham. He could not if
33:56
Speaker 2: you and if you look at it like as a
33:58
Speaker 2: kid or a man, as a kid, but as a
33:59
Speaker 2: young believer, same thing.
34:01
Speaker 3: I drew it out.
34:02
Speaker 2: I drew it out and it fits really really nice.
34:05
Speaker 2: And then you're like, well, wait a minute, him, Liz
34:07
Speaker 2: lives way over here and he circled down. But if
34:10
Speaker 2: you follow the septuagen he died in the next generation
34:14
Speaker 2: just smoothly. They all died very consistently and normally. But
34:17
Speaker 2: that's that is undone. Now, one of the things that
34:20
Speaker 2: you bring up kind of a subtitle here is it
34:24
Speaker 2: may and I don't think we establish it just quite
34:27
Speaker 2: How does the sons of God play into this? Because
34:30
Speaker 2: you talk about again going the root here is Genesis six.
34:36
Speaker 2: How does the sons of God language matter here in
34:39
Speaker 2: this conspiracy so to speak?
34:41
Speaker 1: Right, So this was one of the main attacks. So
34:44
Speaker 1: they went after certain claims like the virgin birth or
34:50
Speaker 1: the piercing in the hands, but this was kind of
34:53
Speaker 1: a grouping of texts that they could kind of work
34:59
Speaker 1: with all at once, I think. And the reason why
35:02
Speaker 1: is because when you go to your Old Testament and
35:04
Speaker 1: you read the ten or so accounts of the Sons
35:07
Speaker 1: of God, you find that every one of those fits
35:10
Speaker 1: a heavenly identity and angelic identitynatural, supernatural, And we know
35:17
Speaker 1: this from Job one and two. The sons of God
35:20
Speaker 1: are going with Satan into heaven. That's not humans. They're
35:24
Speaker 1: clapping with joy and singing and shouting at God creating
35:27
Speaker 1: the foundations of the earth before Adams of our maid.
35:30
Speaker 1: That's not humans. So everybody knew and this was we
35:36
Speaker 1: know this as well. There's been dissertations. A guy named
35:38
Speaker 1: Yap Dodins did a dissertation on every known commentary among
35:44
Speaker 1: the Jews and the Christians on Genesis six, and without exception,
35:50
Speaker 1: every single Jewish source that we have into the second
35:55
Speaker 1: century believe the Sons of God are angels. And we
35:58
Speaker 1: have like twenty different texts huge and in the Church
36:01
Speaker 1: it's every single Christian without exception until about three eighty
36:07
Speaker 1: a d believes that they are angels. So that's why
36:11
Speaker 1: it matters, because the language Sons of God, everybody knows
36:14
Speaker 1: that they're heavenly beings, angelic beings. And then no long
36:18
Speaker 1: comes Jesus, who all of a sudden starts calling himself
36:21
Speaker 1: the son.
36:21
Speaker 3: Of God, and the.
36:23
Speaker 1: Devils start calling him the son of God, and Jesus
36:28
Speaker 1: quotes Psalm eighty two six, one of these Sons of
36:32
Speaker 1: God passages, and he says, doesn't your own scripture say
36:36
Speaker 1: that you are gods? And people completely misinterpret that as
36:42
Speaker 1: if Jesus is somehow calling the Pharisees gods. Yeah, that's
36:46
Speaker 1: not what it's saying. He's actually quoting Psalm eighty two,
36:49
Speaker 1: which says I said you are gods, all of you.
36:53
Speaker 1: And if you keep reading it says sons of the
36:55
Speaker 1: Most High, that's sons of God language. Who's he talking to,
37:00
Speaker 1: not talking to humans, He's talking to the people. In
37:03
Speaker 1: verse one, which is a heavenly divine council scene, God
37:08
Speaker 1: takes a stand in the divine counsel. The ESV says,
37:12
Speaker 1: how do we know it's heavenly? Go read Psalm eighty
37:14
Speaker 1: nine and you'll find out this is an assembly in.
37:17
Speaker 2: The sky exactly.
37:20
Speaker 1: Like anybody who denies the divine counsel. At this point, like,
37:24
Speaker 1: I just don't know what to say to you, because
37:27
Speaker 1: you're completely ignoring your own text, because you're just that
37:31
Speaker 1: mad about the fact that God would have heavenly beings
37:34
Speaker 1: that somehow are rulers, which even that doesn't make sense.
37:37
Speaker 1: He uses human beings to rule for him, So why
37:41
Speaker 1: is that a threat to his sovereignty? It's not. So
37:43
Speaker 1: you have these beings called sons of God and gods,
37:46
Speaker 1: and Jesus comes along and says, yeah, if those guys
37:50
Speaker 1: can be called this, how much more me? Because I
37:54
Speaker 1: am one with a father like it doesn't make any
37:58
Speaker 1: sense for him to go, look, guys, you're a guy,
38:00
Speaker 1: I'm a god. We all just get along.
38:02
Speaker 3: Exactly that there would be no threat there.
38:03
Speaker 2: And they turned around to kill him, to kill and
38:06
Speaker 2: it was right, it was see right before that, this
38:08
Speaker 2: is this is John ten thirty four. This is probably
38:11
Speaker 2: one of this is probably one of the most misinterpreted,
38:13
Speaker 2: I think ever in church history of his quotes of
38:16
Speaker 2: the Old Testament and his argument. And right before that
38:20
Speaker 2: he said, why why are you for? What work are
38:22
Speaker 2: you going to try to kill me for? And they said,
38:24
Speaker 2: not for your works? Right, but but you, being a man,
38:27
Speaker 2: make yourself equal with God. So they understood clearly he
38:30
Speaker 2: was saying, I am the father of one, I'm part
38:33
Speaker 2: of this, I'm part of this, I'm supernatural.
38:36
Speaker 3: I came and look at his language.
38:37
Speaker 2: I came at John A right, he's speaking this over
38:40
Speaker 2: and over with them, Hey, where I come where I'm going?
38:42
Speaker 3: There? Like where's he going?
38:43
Speaker 2: You know? And you know John three, right, only the
38:45
Speaker 2: son of Man like it can come from, come down
38:48
Speaker 2: and up. So John is amazing what he's preparing. John
38:53
Speaker 2: has a whole bunch of preparation in John one one,
38:55
Speaker 2: John one fourteen, John one eighteen, all these stories of
38:57
Speaker 2: John three and John one eighteen is to.
39:00
Speaker 3: Get into that way.
39:01
Speaker 2: But that is phenomenal language there, and you think, and
39:04
Speaker 2: then so by the time we get to John ten,
39:08
Speaker 2: if we've read the Gospel of John, we go, oh, well,
39:12
Speaker 2: this this has been here. He's been prepping us for
39:16
Speaker 2: ten chapters to get to this point. But yet people
39:19
Speaker 2: miss it.
39:20
Speaker 1: Right, and why this is the This is the key.
39:22
Speaker 1: This is another reason why this is so important because
39:24
Speaker 1: it's not just Jews are affected, it's Christians and they
39:27
Speaker 1: don't recognize that they have actually adopted anti christ rabbinical
39:33
Speaker 1: revisionist history of the Bible. And they've adopted it as
39:38
Speaker 1: if that's what it always said. And so why would
39:41
Speaker 1: Christians interpret it this way? What's because the Jews, the
39:45
Speaker 1: Jewish rabbis messed with it. Psawm eighty one eighty two
39:48
Speaker 1: to one. The Greek says God takes his place in
39:55
Speaker 1: the midst of the gods, he judges the gods.
40:00
Speaker 3: That's the Greek sceptub, that's the Greek septuagen.
40:02
Speaker 1: Here's the nas reflecting the masoretic text. God takes his
40:08
Speaker 1: stand in his own congregation, he judges in the midst
40:12
Speaker 1: of the rulers. Now here's the deal. What's wild to
40:16
Speaker 1: me is that they didn't in this case, they didn't
40:18
Speaker 1: alter the text like they did in say, Deuteronomy thirty
40:23
Speaker 1: two forty three, where they actually erased that an entire sentence.
40:27
Speaker 1: They had changed the interpretation of the text. And what
40:30
Speaker 1: they said is, oh, well, yeah, the word elohem that
40:34
Speaker 1: he takes his place and he judges the gods. That
40:37
Speaker 1: doesn't mean God's that means human rulers. And it's like,
40:41
Speaker 1: where does that come from? And so they point to
40:43
Speaker 1: like two or three obscure passages in Exodus has been
40:49
Speaker 1: debunked one hundred years ago by Cyrus Gordon, not to
40:52
Speaker 1: mention it's debunked by Deuteronomy fifteen, and they just make
40:58
Speaker 1: it up out of nowhere, and they say eloheim actually
41:01
Speaker 1: means the rulers. And so you go to the Brown
41:04
Speaker 1: Driver Briggs lexicon and you'll see that the first depth
41:07
Speaker 1: that blows my mind away. Yeah, they said the first
41:09
Speaker 1: definition of eloheim is human rulers or judges. And you're like,
41:15
Speaker 1: there's like three thousand uses of elohem in the Old
41:19
Speaker 1: Testament twice maybe maybe it means humans and those are disputed.
41:25
Speaker 1: And tell me that's the first definition of a word.
41:27
Speaker 2: Ye, that tells you, and I let's remember that. In
41:33
Speaker 2: second Gridions three, Paul is discussing the nature of the
41:38
Speaker 2: Gospel and he says that there is there's scales, there's
41:43
Speaker 2: blinders on the Jewish people until they see Christ. And
41:49
Speaker 2: so so when people say, well, the rabbi say this,
41:52
Speaker 2: the rabbi say that, and I go, why would you care?
41:55
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be mean, but why would you
41:57
Speaker 2: care what the rabbi say about anything? They all without Jesus,
42:00
Speaker 2: they have scales. It says it crystal clear. If you
42:03
Speaker 2: don't put Jesus in, you don't recognize Jesus's messiah ship.
42:07
Speaker 2: You're not going to see. I mean, you're blind. But
42:09
Speaker 2: yet we're building. So the Church has taken this this
42:12
Speaker 2: and be you.
42:12
Speaker 3: Know, uh BDB.
42:14
Speaker 2: Same thing where they've taken this Rabbinic view incorporated into
42:19
Speaker 2: the Church and then later they've incorporated into the linguistics
42:23
Speaker 2: you know of of Hebrew again.
42:25
Speaker 3: Like you said with Eloheim, and you're like.
42:27
Speaker 2: Why would why would they? Why would they take this?
42:30
Speaker 2: Why would they embrace it? And that's that's to me
42:33
Speaker 2: is one of the most fascinatings.
42:35
Speaker 3: I want you to do.
42:35
Speaker 2: One more is let's talk about one, okay, because some
42:43
Speaker 2: one is another place where melkesidek appears.
42:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, it appears only in three passages Hebrews what five
42:49
Speaker 1: through seven, Genesis fourteen, and Salm one hundred and ten.
42:53
Speaker 3: There it is. That's it.
42:55
Speaker 2: But show the difference here because between what we'd understand
42:59
Speaker 2: in the in the Hebrew masoretic text the Rabbinic text.
43:03
Speaker 3: I like saying verbinic text because that's helpful.
43:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the Hebrew.
43:07
Speaker 2: Rabbinic text, which again if and I encourage people open
43:10
Speaker 2: up your Bible, you know it doesn't matter. Almost all
43:14
Speaker 2: of the English translations are based on the Hebrew Rabbinic
43:16
Speaker 2: text and reads on one ten follow along and then
43:20
Speaker 2: we're going to read in this septuagen.
43:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, so sal one hundred and ten. Verse one one
43:25
Speaker 1: of the most quoted verses in the New Testament about Jesus.
43:29
Speaker 1: In fact, Jesus himself quotes this. Yeah, the Lord says
43:34
Speaker 1: to my lord. Now this is first of all, this
43:36
Speaker 1: is one of the superscriptions to make a difference, because
43:38
Speaker 1: this is a psalm of David. So David says, the
43:42
Speaker 1: Lord says to my lord, Wait, David has two lords,
43:47
Speaker 1: how can that be? And then sit at my right
43:49
Speaker 1: hand until I make the enemies your enemies your footstool. Okay,
43:53
Speaker 1: So this is well established New Testament. This is Jesus.
43:56
Speaker 1: Verse four, the Lord has sworn that's the first Lord.
44:02
Speaker 3: And will not change his mind.
44:04
Speaker 1: You who's you? That's the second Lord. You are a
44:08
Speaker 1: priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews is used.
44:12
Speaker 1: Hebrews uses that like four times to say, yeah, that's
44:16
Speaker 1: talking about Jesus and Melchizedec, and we've already talked about him,
44:20
Speaker 1: so we need to rehash that. But verse three is
44:23
Speaker 1: the one nobody brings up. And it's so wild because
44:27
Speaker 1: here's the sv which is reflecting the rabbinic text. Your
44:31
Speaker 1: people will offer themselves freely on the day of your
44:34
Speaker 1: power in holy garments, from the womb of the morning.
44:38
Speaker 1: The doo of your youth will be yours. Okay, sure,
44:43
Speaker 1: so what ok here's the Greek with you is dominion.
44:48
Speaker 1: That's Daniel seven son a man language in the day
44:52
Speaker 1: of your power? Whose power the Lord's power, Melchizedec's power,
44:58
Speaker 1: You your power in this splendor of your saints. What
45:04
Speaker 1: your your saints, your your people, they're your people. I
45:08
Speaker 1: have begotten you from the womb before the morning Star.
45:14
Speaker 1: I did not just read that in my es V
45:17
Speaker 1: or my na in IV. What happened The rabbis changed
45:22
Speaker 1: the text and the earliest Christians knew this and they
45:26
Speaker 1: this is one of those I think Justin's like, if
45:27
Speaker 1: they would have known about this one, they would, you
45:29
Speaker 1: know that kind of a thing like And I don't
45:33
Speaker 1: know when it dropped out or when it changed, but
45:35
Speaker 1: this is a psalm to language, and that's a son
45:38
Speaker 1: of God text the.
45:40
Speaker 3: Lord, you know, the Lord said, what is what is that?
45:43
Speaker 1: How? Let's get it exactly right? Ps two.
45:47
Speaker 2: And as you go there, remember this game brings us
45:49
Speaker 2: back to John three sixteen. You know where you have
45:53
Speaker 2: again kind of at least because to be gotten language
45:56
Speaker 2: begotten language.
45:57
Speaker 1: It's coming right from here. It's coming right from some
45:59
Speaker 1: one hundred ten three subtuagen so Psalm two. I will
46:02
Speaker 1: tell of the decree the Lord said to me, you
46:05
Speaker 1: are my son, son of God. Today I have begotten you.
46:09
Speaker 1: That's exactly what Psalm one hundred and ten three says.
46:12
Speaker 1: This is where the church gets the eternal generation of
46:15
Speaker 1: the sun, the eternal begottenness of the sun. How else
46:19
Speaker 1: are you going to say that you are begotten and
46:22
Speaker 1: yet not made, other than say I begot you before
46:26
Speaker 1: the morning star. Who's the morning star Lucifer? Like before him?
46:31
Speaker 1: You are because you're eternally begotten. You are my eternally
46:35
Speaker 1: begotten son. And here's what So this is the link
46:37
Speaker 1: between these two salts of the Psalm eighty two and
46:40
Speaker 1: Psalm eight or two two eight. Ask of me, and
46:44
Speaker 1: I will make the nations your heritage and the ends
46:46
Speaker 1: of your earth your possession. Well. Psalm eighty two, which
46:50
Speaker 1: is what we've been saying, is kind of the epicenter
46:52
Speaker 1: for so much trouble. Here is only eight verses long,
46:57
Speaker 1: and at the very end it says, arise of God.
47:00
Speaker 1: Who's God. It's the son of God who Jesus is claiming,
47:05
Speaker 1: I'm that guy. I'm that guy to the Pharisees, and
47:07
Speaker 1: they know what he's claiming, and he goes, judge the earth,
47:10
Speaker 1: for you shall inherit all the nations. They know exactly
47:13
Speaker 1: what Jesus is saying. It's not just that he's claiming
47:17
Speaker 1: that there are entities out there that are called sons
47:19
Speaker 1: of God that aren't them that are heavenly, And it's
47:23
Speaker 1: not even just that, and this is a big adjust that
47:27
Speaker 1: he is claiming to be one of a father. It's
47:29
Speaker 1: also the promise is that he's claiming, I am the
47:33
Speaker 1: one who's going to inherit all the nations. And there's
47:36
Speaker 1: not a dog one thing that you can do about it.
47:38
Speaker 2: And if you add in see again, it's amazing how
47:41
Speaker 2: often we go back to the Gospel of John. So
47:44
Speaker 2: if you were to take John five, I believe it's
47:46
Speaker 2: verse twenty two where Jesus says, the Father has committed
47:50
Speaker 2: all judgment to the son, and you go, oh, and
47:54
Speaker 2: then here in psaulmighty.
47:55
Speaker 3: Two, arise and judge.
47:57
Speaker 2: You couldn't miss that connection where Jesus is said saying,
48:00
Speaker 2: by the way, all judgment and the nations go back
48:03
Speaker 2: to so many two. I'm telling you the Father's committed
48:06
Speaker 2: all judgment to the sun, which, by the way, is me,
48:08
Speaker 2: which would fit right there. So it's amazing that I
48:12
Speaker 2: think of John the Apostle, who was probably one of
48:15
Speaker 2: the youngest, and here, you know, he's writing his gospel
48:20
Speaker 2: many many years later, probably the last gospel, I would imagine,
48:24
Speaker 2: But he's had this time to ponder and to think
48:28
Speaker 2: about all the things that this guy, Jesus of Nazareth,
48:31
Speaker 2: like wow, I'm still gaining and as he's studying the scriptures,
48:35
Speaker 2: and then he writes his gospel in the fullness of
48:38
Speaker 2: course by the Holy Spirit, for sure, but like, wow,
48:42
Speaker 2: did I really fully and well, how often did you
48:44
Speaker 2: say we didn't understand, we didn't understand, and tell this
48:46
Speaker 2: and this and this, and his disciples didn't get it.
48:49
Speaker 2: So he's had time to contemplate all these things and
48:52
Speaker 2: then to write these truths that were in the Old
48:56
Speaker 2: Testament and still are well some old testaments. Right, So
49:00
Speaker 2: let's let me let's address something here since we've kind
49:03
Speaker 2: of talked a lot about it. Is so I get
49:06
Speaker 2: out my Bible on my ESV. Doug, are you saying
49:10
Speaker 2: that I can't trust my Bible.
49:11
Speaker 1: Right exactly, that that's the first place our brains go, and.
49:17
Speaker 2: Because it's safe, let's be honest, it's safe for me
49:19
Speaker 2: to stay there now, and I just trust my Bible.
49:21
Speaker 3: There's no very endside what that means.
49:23
Speaker 1: Question itself comes from a good place because we believe
49:26
Speaker 1: in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scripture. So I
49:30
Speaker 1: understand the question, I understand the fear. But like we
49:34
Speaker 1: said early on in this podcast episode, it's actually because
49:39
Speaker 1: we can trust the Bible in almost every place that
49:46
Speaker 1: this is what makes these things all the more stark.
49:49
Speaker 1: Because God superintended and allowed for the Rabbis to change
49:56
Speaker 1: their own text. But you want to know what Elsecod did.
49:59
Speaker 1: He also preserved the subtu Agen and the Dead Sea
50:01
Speaker 1: scrolls and the Samaritan Pentitive so that we would know
50:06
Speaker 1: what they did because God, God's process of preserving his
50:11
Speaker 1: word was not through xerox machines. And we're one line
50:15
Speaker 1: of texts, right, yeah exactly, Yeah, family trees of text
50:18
Speaker 1: that's another thing. So there's all kinds of things that
50:21
Speaker 1: that discipline of textual criticism uses as a science to
50:24
Speaker 1: find out what the originals were. But we can find
50:28
Speaker 1: out what the originals are and we have You know, yes,
50:32
Speaker 1: no translation is going to be perfect, and not all
50:36
Speaker 1: scholars understand every place that was manipulated or whatever. But
50:41
Speaker 1: we also have many different English translations. And all you
50:44
Speaker 1: need to do is pull out three different English translations,
50:48
Speaker 1: get an EESV, get an NAS, and then get like
50:51
Speaker 1: an NIV. Pull them out, do your little Bible study,
50:55
Speaker 1: and you'll see that two of the three say one
50:57
Speaker 1: thing and one says another.
50:58
Speaker 3: On a very few texts.
51:00
Speaker 1: Are you going to see that most of them it's
51:01
Speaker 1: going to be an agreement on everything, at least conceptually,
51:05
Speaker 1: you know. But if you see something like this says
51:08
Speaker 1: sons of God, this has sons of Israel. Or one
51:11
Speaker 1: of my favorites is in June five. I read NIV
51:14
Speaker 1: forever as a kid, and it says the Lord save
51:16
Speaker 1: to people out of Egypt. And then when the ESV
51:19
Speaker 1: came out, it says Jesus saved to people out of Egypt.
51:22
Speaker 1: I was like, I've never read that.
51:24
Speaker 3: Before, where'd that come from, Jesus? What do you mean, Jesus?
51:26
Speaker 1: And so because I knew my NIV well enough, that
51:29
Speaker 1: stuck out to me, and so I went on wonder
51:31
Speaker 1: what happened. So you go and you read the footnote
51:34
Speaker 1: and it takes you immediately says textual variant says Lord,
51:38
Speaker 1: or the NIB it will be the opposite. We'll see
51:40
Speaker 1: textual variance says Jesus. Well, you're a translated you have
51:43
Speaker 1: to pick one or the other. So the NIV went
51:45
Speaker 1: safe and the ESV went right. Yeah, exactly, okay, because
51:50
Speaker 1: it's much harder to see how some copyist would change
51:55
Speaker 1: the word Lord to Jesus, it's much easier to go, yeah,
52:00
Speaker 1: there's no way it said Jesus. It had to said
52:03
Speaker 1: Lord because Jesus isn't in the Old Testament.
52:05
Speaker 3: We all knew that. So that's the beauty of it.
52:09
Speaker 1: We actually can trust our Bible, and we can trust
52:12
Speaker 1: it implicitly, and even when it has a difference on
52:15
Speaker 1: this level, as Justin said, it doesn't matter because there's
52:19
Speaker 1: so many more of these that they didn't change. I'll
52:23
Speaker 1: just use those instead. It's like a Jehovah's witness comes
52:25
Speaker 1: to your door, right, and you don't want to pull
52:27
Speaker 1: out John one to one on a Jehovah's witness because
52:30
Speaker 1: they've been trained on that trade. There's there's like maybe
52:32
Speaker 1: you could go to Romans nine to five or something
52:34
Speaker 1: like that and use that against them, yep, because they
52:37
Speaker 1: haven't changed that.
52:37
Speaker 3: They haven't. Yeah, and if you look at their there.
52:40
Speaker 2: I remember when I was in Bible College, we had
52:43
Speaker 2: we were studying. We had to do a report on
52:45
Speaker 2: an on an English translation. And so I went to
52:48
Speaker 2: the professor and I said, you said, this is a
52:51
Speaker 2: report on English translation. She goes, yeah, yeah, I just
52:53
Speaker 2: pick one. And I said, I want to pick the
52:54
Speaker 2: New World translation. And he goes like, this is Johovah swootness.
53:00
Speaker 2: And I said, you said English. And he's like, I'm
53:03
Speaker 2: gonna let I'm gonna let you do this. And I
53:05
Speaker 2: said okay. And so here I am riding the train
53:09
Speaker 2: every day, right, and so as I'm God was so
53:12
Speaker 2: kind because so I'm riding.
53:13
Speaker 3: The train and I'm up on this troublemaker. Yeah, I
53:16
Speaker 3: was a troublemaker for sure.
53:17
Speaker 2: And so I'm in Chicago and I look down below
53:19
Speaker 2: and here's this guy. He's got all of his watchtower
53:23
Speaker 2: stuff out like his little he's he's ready for battle, right,
53:26
Speaker 2: He's ready. And I was like, man, Lord, you provided.
53:30
Speaker 2: So I went down there and I sat down and
53:31
Speaker 2: I said, hey, you know, I see what you got here.
53:34
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, I'm a Bible suit and he goes, oh, really, yeah,
53:36
Speaker 2: so he was, And I said, you know, I'm doing
53:39
Speaker 2: a report in my class and he goes oh, And
53:41
Speaker 2: I said, you know, everybody else wanted to do different versions,
53:45
Speaker 2: I said, but I wanted to do the New World Translation.
53:48
Speaker 3: Can you help me?
53:50
Speaker 2: Can you? Can you help me understand who translated this
53:53
Speaker 2: from Hebrew and Greek into English?
53:55
Speaker 3: And he goes, oh, of course, of course.
53:57
Speaker 2: So I met with him and come to find out
54:01
Speaker 2: one person, and that you know, like if you open
54:03
Speaker 2: up your King James or ESV, it'll tell you the
54:05
Speaker 2: translators and they list them all. You have one person
54:09
Speaker 2: who was not qualified in Hebrew or Greek translating the
54:12
Speaker 2: New World Translation. And I was kind of doing it
54:14
Speaker 2: as a way to him to see that how could
54:17
Speaker 2: you trust this horrible because in again, as you said
54:20
Speaker 2: in John, one one that says in the beginning was
54:22
Speaker 2: the word, the word was with God. The word was
54:24
Speaker 2: a God. And you're like, well, that's who. That's not true.
54:28
Speaker 2: And of course, if you're in a first year Greek student,
54:30
Speaker 2: maybe you might make that mistake, but generally not.
54:33
Speaker 3: So You're like, it was just interesting to me.
54:35
Speaker 2: That they they're very selective and they obviously were deceiving
54:41
Speaker 2: a lot of people. But in the same way, now
54:43
Speaker 2: I think it's important for us as we look at
54:45
Speaker 2: our Bibles. Yes it's there. I would encourage people get
54:49
Speaker 2: an English septuagen.
54:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and get it, you know. And also the
54:56
Speaker 1: whole question, the other one related to this is well,
54:58
Speaker 1: what's the perfect translation? And my answer is there's no
55:01
Speaker 1: such thing as a perfect translation. By definition, translation is interpretive.
55:06
Speaker 1: You're giving me, You're giving me a bunch of words
55:08
Speaker 1: in one language, and sometimes in my language, I'll have
55:11
Speaker 1: three or four different words that I have to choose
55:13
Speaker 1: to immediately speak what you just said, and maybe you
55:17
Speaker 1: meant it different, or maybe you had a double on
55:19
Speaker 1: tendra meaning going on, or who knows what all happened,
55:22
Speaker 1: but I still have to make a decision. And so
55:25
Speaker 1: then the other thing reminded me of is that, like
55:28
Speaker 1: almost all of our modern translations are done by committees
55:31
Speaker 1: instead of by one guy. There's like two trans the
55:33
Speaker 1: Message Bibles, one guy, the Phillips Bible. Like that's about it.
55:38
Speaker 1: The rest of our committees, and so they will assign
55:41
Speaker 1: one scholar to one book, a different scholar to another book,
55:44
Speaker 1: and so you can get like people will go, well,
55:46
Speaker 1: which is the best Divine Council translation? I'm like, there
55:49
Speaker 1: isn't such a thing. Because the ESV is awesome on
55:54
Speaker 1: the sons of God's stuff, it's terrible on Isaiah thirty
55:57
Speaker 1: four and thirteen when it comes to the demonic stuff,
56:00
Speaker 1: Like they translate every demonic thing that's there completely naturally,
56:05
Speaker 1: which is bizarre to me because we have an inspired
56:09
Speaker 1: commentary in Revelation eighteen that tells you it's demons getting
56:14
Speaker 1: it straight from those and that particular translator didn't understand that. Nope,
56:19
Speaker 1: So which one can I trust? Trust them all, and
56:22
Speaker 1: also use the tools that you have to be able
56:25
Speaker 1: to find where you might find a little bit different translation.
56:29
Speaker 1: It's not going to destroy your faith on any of
56:32
Speaker 1: these things, but will it can enrich the way that
56:34
Speaker 1: you see, especially the supernatural realm.
56:37
Speaker 2: Well, and that's where you know, as we're running at
56:39
Speaker 2: a time, that's where I want to end is So
56:42
Speaker 2: you've written this book, You've exposed this conspiracy very very well.
56:46
Speaker 2: You've given you've got the receipts using modern language. But
56:51
Speaker 2: the goal in all of this is, at the end
56:54
Speaker 2: of the day, finalize this for us that how does
56:59
Speaker 2: this understanding truly exalt the Lord Jesus?
57:05
Speaker 1: Because Jesus claimed many things about himself that are divine
57:12
Speaker 1: and supernatural, not just human, and those were taken away
57:17
Speaker 1: from first the Jews, and second through osmosis through cultural integration,
57:24
Speaker 1: the Christians. On many texts that the earliest Christians were
57:28
Speaker 1: using to exalt Jesus divinity, we no longer do that.
57:33
Speaker 1: In fact, we mock in some cases the very things
57:37
Speaker 1: that early Christians were using to proclaim Jesus divinity. We
57:40
Speaker 1: say that couldn't possibly be. And we have ourselves become
57:45
Speaker 1: de supernaturalized and de mythologized in the way that we
57:48
Speaker 1: read the Bible. And it's to our own hurt, because
57:53
Speaker 1: all of these things, they're not just for the sake
57:56
Speaker 1: of fun supernatural things. It's for the sake of our Savior,
58:00
Speaker 1: who is God in human flesh. And I want as
58:04
Speaker 1: many of those passages that are found in my Bible
58:07
Speaker 1: to be known by Christians as I can, because they
58:11
Speaker 1: exalt Jesus.
58:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really what it comes down to. Is in
58:15
Speaker 2: many ways if we have accepted or let's say, you know,
58:20
Speaker 2: we Genesis six, oh, the sons of Seth theory, which
58:25
Speaker 2: you know, is taking away. It's taking away from the
58:30
Speaker 2: theological unity of the text, and ultimately it takes away
58:35
Speaker 2: from the exaltation and the victory that Jesus has by
58:39
Speaker 2: again de supernaturalized. If you get rid of Genesis six,
58:43
Speaker 2: how do you really understand anything else?
58:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, you missed the whole war that we didn't talk
58:47
Speaker 1: about in this podcast. When the whole Genesis three point fifteen,
58:50
Speaker 1: that's a promise of the First Gospel. But guess what,
58:53
Speaker 1: it doesn't only start to come to fulfillment in the
58:55
Speaker 1: New Testament exactly. It starts to come to fulfillment in
58:59
Speaker 1: Genesis and the flood, where King Jesus who stands enthroned
59:04
Speaker 1: over the flood by the way in another Sons of
59:07
Speaker 1: God text in Psalm twenty nine, verse one, and all
59:10
Speaker 1: the sons of God are praising him. He's the one
59:13
Speaker 1: who brought the thing because of the wickedness that they.
59:17
Speaker 3: Were trying to do.
59:18
Speaker 1: I believe in trying to breed out the possibility that
59:22
Speaker 1: there even would be a seed of the woman that
59:24
Speaker 1: could do anything to these people.
59:26
Speaker 2: You know, this is where I remember what you mentioned
59:29
Speaker 2: Jude five about Jesus. You know, Jesus bringing judgment, but
59:34
Speaker 2: you go or saving them. But you go to first
59:37
Speaker 2: Christians ten and you go and Paul uses the language,
59:41
Speaker 2: don't be like them, The Rock was Christ. And you're like, wait, what,
59:47
Speaker 2: where where'd that come from? And so you have this
59:50
Speaker 2: Jesus is extremely present in the Old Testament.
59:54
Speaker 1: You want to know what's wild about that is that
59:56
Speaker 1: there's another textual variant in verse nine in for Corinthians ten,
1:00:01
Speaker 1: we must not put Christ to the test. That's the ESV.
1:00:06
Speaker 1: But if you go and read like the NIVY, it
1:00:09
Speaker 1: will say you must not put the Lord to the test. Well,
1:00:12
Speaker 1: it's like, I can maybe understand the Jude one, But
1:00:15
Speaker 1: how could you possibly miss this because you have verse
1:00:18
Speaker 1: two that tells you the Rock is Christ.
1:00:21
Speaker 3: He's right there.
1:00:22
Speaker 1: It's not like it's a leap for Paul to then
1:00:24
Speaker 1: go they put Christ to the test unless somehow we
1:00:27
Speaker 1: have missed Christ in the Old Testament and we've become
1:00:31
Speaker 1: we've become as Christians functional unitarians in the way we
1:00:34
Speaker 1: read the Old Tests.
1:00:35
Speaker 2: One hundred percent and this goes back, you know again
1:00:38
Speaker 2: to the rock. How did they tempt him? Well, if
1:00:42
Speaker 2: in with one of your other books, the you know
1:00:44
Speaker 2: the Angel Lord, the Angel Lord was sent ahead, he
1:00:48
Speaker 2: was there, he was present, and he's the God warned
1:00:50
Speaker 2: him in next to twenty three. Don't Yeah, you better
1:00:53
Speaker 2: listen to him because he won't forgive you.
1:00:55
Speaker 3: You better.
1:00:55
Speaker 2: And my name's it him, you know, my powers and
1:00:57
Speaker 2: my presence is in him. So you think, well, well,
1:01:00
Speaker 2: that one I think ties perfectly together. When was Jesus
1:01:03
Speaker 2: tempted and when was he rejected or whatever? Well, Readexus
1:01:07
Speaker 2: twenty three, So it's it's pretty amazing.
1:01:10
Speaker 1: The Sons of God text too, In the very verse
1:01:13
Speaker 1: that's right before jen Exodus sixteen, which is the whole
1:01:16
Speaker 1: temptation story, it talks this weird story about how Moses
1:01:21
Speaker 1: leads them to a place called Eleem where there's seventy
1:01:25
Speaker 1: palm trees in twelve springs of water, and you're like,
1:01:28
Speaker 1: why do I care? Well, because Eleem is a wordplay
1:01:31
Speaker 1: on Eleem, which means God's and there's seventy palm trees
1:01:37
Speaker 1: and throughout, like Ezekiel thirty one, the trees of Eden
1:01:40
Speaker 1: are called the gods, and it's like, what's going on here?
1:01:44
Speaker 1: The number seventy? Why seventy because that's the sons of God,
1:01:48
Speaker 1: Sons of God, same thing Jesus is claiming to be
1:01:51
Speaker 1: one of those. I mean, it's there's so many places
1:01:54
Speaker 1: where this worldview is found that we've just we've missed it.
1:01:57
Speaker 3: Yeah. Amen, Well, Doug, it's been good. We could say,
1:02:00
Speaker 3: only go.
1:02:01
Speaker 2: A lot longer, but you know, I'm just gonna the
1:02:05
Speaker 2: battle for the Bible's truth, Genesis six, Jesus and the
1:02:08
Speaker 2: second century plot to deny the Messiah, and this book
1:02:12
Speaker 2: just came out. I encourage you to get it. We
1:02:14
Speaker 2: certainly we have it in our bookstore. But this is gonna,
1:02:17
Speaker 2: this is gonna rock your world. This is gonna help
1:02:19
Speaker 2: you understand and again to see Jesus even to the
1:02:24
Speaker 2: exalted position that he so rightly deserves, not just under
1:02:28
Speaker 2: the Old Testament, but certainly we've seen the New Testament
1:02:30
Speaker 2: and leader of the whole Divine Council. And to me,
1:02:34
Speaker 2: it's phenomenal. So Doug, thank you, thanks for having me on.
1:02:37
Speaker 2: Man h thank you everybody out Yeah, bring you Alaholma.
1:02:40
Speaker 2: Here we are in Oklahoma and Doug's going back to
1:02:42
Speaker 2: beautiful Colorado, so you get to stay here. Yeah, I
1:02:44
Speaker 2: have to stay here. So thank you everybody for listening
1:02:46
Speaker 2: today again. Hopefully this is a blessing to you. It's phenomenal.
1:02:49
Speaker 2: Check out Doug's book and the rest of his books
1:02:51
Speaker 2: actually as well that I'll kind of tie together.
1:02:54
Speaker 3: We'll catch you next time.