Latest / I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth / I Hate Soccer #93 - Steve Shelton, head women's coach at the University of Detroit Mercy

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I Hate Soccer #93 - Steve Shelton, head women's coach at the University of Detroit Mercy · I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: This episode, I got to go down to University of Detroit, uh, where I used to actually coach.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I got to interview uh Steve Shelton.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Steve Shelton is the head women's coach there, and he's been there since about 2019, I believe seven years.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he previously was an assistant at Ball State, had some success success there.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Prior to that, he was uh at Concordia uh College.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is it Concordia College in Ann Arbor or near Ann Arbor?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then before that, he was just a high school coach.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's interesting to see some of these college coaches' paths go up through the high school ranks, you know.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like we always talk about like, well, kids can't, you know, kids can't be recruited through col through high school soccer, but a lot of these coaches coach high school soccer.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So they can't be all bad, right?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it's a good interview, good chat.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we really take a deep dive in what the system is and what the system should look like uh and what college soccer is gonna look like over the next five years, and and if uh all these new rules take place, it's gonna it's just gonna be interesting to see how this all plays out with the college game.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh as always, please like, subscribe, and most importantly, share.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: We just hit 50,000 downloads uh total.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually a big accomplishment, I guess.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and very proud of it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm setting a goal and I believe in setting goals and and writing them down, and I also believe in talking about them because you know it holds me more accountable.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: My goal to get to 100,000 downloads by Christmas, Christmas of 2026.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if you share this, get more downloads, please.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: You'd be helping me out uh and just grow the show and continue to talk to great people like Steve Shelton.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I hate soccer.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: You played at Kalamazoo, and how was the level like back in the day?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean that team was it still is D3.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's well or what was it when you played?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was D3, but I mean like Nick Carlin Boigt, who's the the men's coach at Portland now, right?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: He was he was the goalkeeper, right?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the year before that team was unreal.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so I mean uh I don't know.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was a cool experience.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they they competed with Western for sure at the time.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So and this is what year did you play at Kalamazoo?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I graduated in 04.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you're like so you're right around so you're right around my age.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I played just at like Rochester College in 03, and I played against Western, and Western was gonna like go under that that year.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh and then they won the league, and then that like saved them.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I yeah, I I well I saw Chad talking about that.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wasn't he on like we are soccer or something like that?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah with Brooks.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I was uh yeah, so I I played in Australia for two years, and so I I did that, I came back, I didn't really know much about college.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was from downriver.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I honestly probably never even met a person that played in college.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, in surveying the landscape at that point, like looking at Western, um, I ended up transferring to Western not to play just to go to school and graduate, but it was like, where are you gonna go that might still have a soccer program?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't know.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that so like me not knowing anything about really college soccer, I just knew I wanted to play.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then through on top of that, like there were so many rumors like Western's gonna cut their program or this this program's gonna be cut, and so you're like, oh, what do I do?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is 23 years ago.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Don't remind me.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that crazy?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is it is crazy, but I mean, so many things are different now than then, and that's part of you look back at it, you know where I played club for the Grosil Islanders.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do you know where the Grozeal Islanders is?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was my dad and a friend's dad who got everyone on Gros Eal, and we had a club and we played, and we turned out to be a pretty good high school team, which I tell my club kids now.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Remember when high school was a real thing?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: You don't understand because we played against you know, we won a state championship.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I only lost two games my whole high school career, and we beat back to back that country date team with BJ Goodman, Steve Bennell, those those guys.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Steve Bennell.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So like that that was a high school soccer was pretty legit back then, and people don't realize that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because you got to get you got to play against BJ.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: These days, you wouldn't you would never be able to touch BJ because he'd be in the MLS next.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: We won both those games.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Gross Eel.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't have Jordan Gruber, did you?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Jordan no, that was Groves.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think Jordan Gruber.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: But like, yeah, I played against like, and I've said this in multiple episodes now, Simone Oma Kanda.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, still probably one of the best players I've ever played against.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And Nate Norman was on that Adams team.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the Adams team was just stupid.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then I played against Ryan Alexander at U of D.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just that's gone.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that sucks.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's they're still a little bit on the ECL side, but then the top hawks girls don't play high school.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, and it's you know, I I understand it to an extent, but it's just it was so different because we like lived and breathed that.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: We we when I was at Gros Ele, before my class came through, nobody had thought about even winning districts, right?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't we didn't we didn't win anything, and then we just as kids we played rec and then my dad and my friends dad threw a travel team together and we started doing some things, you know.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: We did Canton Cup, we did State Cup, and yeah, but like we weren't gonna drive out to Wolves or Vardar or like I don't even we didn't even know that existed.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be honest.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we just and we loved it, and everybody on this team was from Gros Hill.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't like we were exactly we just were friends.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: You were represented by like three high schools, maybe two high schools.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: One one we were that team became our high school team, which again, the only game I games I ever lost in high school were I think we played Ann Arbor Huron our first game ever, which they were pretty loaded back then.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: We lost one-nothing, and then never lost again until my last game.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: We lost.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: We beat Country Day, who was stacked that year in the district final, and then lost the next game, which yeah, 25 years later.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because I used I used to coach at Country Day.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: I used to coach at Country Day, and then I used to coach here uh on the women's side for two years, and then on the men's side with one.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I had like Nate Steinwasher.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Stein, he was he was a he was a freshman.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then at and then I was at Country Day for four years, won two state titles.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was fun.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Never won on the girls' side, but I mean it's crazy.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember back then?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Was high school a pathway of getting recruited?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or was it only State Cup and was it only regionals and only MRL?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't remember because I never my goal wasn't to play at Indiana because I don't didn't think I could play there.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be honest with you, I have no idea.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I didn't know what to do.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't know how to like I was making V8 chess tapes and like sending them and like, did you watch this?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was my dad would like drive me to schools and we would like, hey, can we meet with coach?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was that a thing.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if that's a thing.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was just I had no idea.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was just I knew I wanted to play college soccer and just exploring avenues.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, I didn't know anybody that played college soccer.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's like, this is how I did it.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like we would go to spring games and be like, like, I think back on this is so so dumb.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like we went to uh Notre Dame Spring Game.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like, hey, like, can we talk to the coach afterwards?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, so like that I was not close.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was not in that level and I had no idea what that was, or like he actually talked to us, so it was it was cool, but like I'm sure he was like, Oh, I just definitely not recruiting these kids.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think about how many highlight videos you receive, and then think about back in the day when it was just VHS tapes.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then you just had to like pop them in.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because now you can kind of like scroll through or like you know, and like the first two minutes is or first two clips.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, all right, I'm not I'm done with this.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how it is for you?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Let's call it like it is.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's just so many, there's no time.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think anybody that says it's not that, like, you know, for me, the main like you get so many emails, and now it's the portal.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's global.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's the portal, it's global, and you get the youth, right?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and then there's, and I'm not knocking it, I get it, but there's so many of these people that are recruiting services where you're just getting a stock email, and it's like, you know, this is a pretty special place.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to, like I say, we're kind of a specialist school.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: So like girls come here because we have direct admit nursing, or we have five-year PA, or we have a five-year MBA.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're not coming here to do generic studies, they're coming here for some.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're just like, I get all the time, like, hey, I want to be a teacher, I think Detroit Mercy's a good fit, and I'm like, we don't have a teaching program.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, so I think there's a little of that, but then yeah, certainly I think, you know, we have a style and the way we want to play.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if I'm if I'm looking at a tape and like there's no if it's a defender and there's no 1v1 defending, and there's no long balls, and there's no winning airballs, it's just short out of the back, then I'm like, okay, well, that's that's not a hot for somebody else.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not not what I want to see.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see, can you defend?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can you can you play a long ball?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can you win airballs?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what we do.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I would say that's a lot of what college soccer is.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how does your girls balance being in the medical field and being able to be a D1 college athlete?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's tough.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um honestly, like through through my whole career, even.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I started at Concordia, which was somewhat similar.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, I didn't really play college soccer to a huge extent.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just doing what I think is right and trying.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I bring that in coming here is like we have to just figure it out.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes we train at 7 a.m.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: because girls have clinicals and we can't train.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we train at night, sometimes we we train from 12:30 to 1.45.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And people are like, well, that's not enough.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, we have to figure it out.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be better coaches, we have to get the information across because that's the time we have.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, on a on a Friday after you play Thursday, are you gonna train at 7 a.m.?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, of course you're not, right?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so if the only time we have is you know an hour and 15 minutes, we gotta figure out how to make that the best hour and 15 minutes we can.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we and and it's it's certainly things are different.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: How do we do film?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like, there's a lot of times we can't get together, so we have to send it out, or like we have to, you know, bring people in one-on-one when they can come, or like different groups, like yeah.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I wish it was uh, you know, when I was at Ball State, you know, we we had a training time in the afternoon and we could watch film before and it was that yeah, it's just not the way it is here.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think on the coaches side, it's we're we're we just are constantly adapting, but players for sure.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're going to training and then you're going to clinical all day until maybe nine at night.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're getting up and doing it again.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, again, lucky the university works with us fantastically.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, most schools, if you're gonna do clinicals, a lot of times you won't be able to play.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: You might not be able to play your senior year if you are you're in clinicals here.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: They work with us.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, girls will miss practice from time to time, but not games.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so being a small school helps in that, but it is yeah, it's it's tough because uh we can't do you know what a lot of schools do because we just don't have the time, you know.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And most of our girls are in the medical field, right?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like I said, on Tuesday, Thursday we have what we call dead period, which is 12:30 to 2.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that works, but that's not clinicals, you know what I mean?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and nursing classes are all day long, and PA classes are all day long, and then to make it even better, the MBA kids.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a lot of girls that do five-year MBA, their classes are at night.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's games or six of those.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, games not so much, but to train, like, when do you train?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because you got your medical field all day, you've got your business all night.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, we figure it out.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and for the girls, like our girls do fantastically in the classroom.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: I say to people come and they're like, you know, what resources do you have for academics?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we we have everything you could possibly want.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I say, I don't really deal with it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you do study hours?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, certainly we step in if they need help, yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: But most of our girls, if they're not getting, like, they're upset if they're not getting a 4.0.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like we j we joke sometimes, like we just had our end-of-year meetings, and I'll say, like, hey, did you get a 4.0?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: and they're like, I got an 8 minus in one of my classes.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, it's just not you know something I have to deal with, really.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: But um, for them to put in that time, and it's hard.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's hard.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is a hard school, like it is.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, and everybody thinks well, well, it's in middle downtown Detroit and whatever.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, dude, no, this school is legit.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the best dentists, dentistry schools in the country.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, we have girls that want to come here to be dentists.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I say this all the time.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: When you talk about just the medical field, that'll like just honestly, just PAs and nurses, that's what we get a ton of.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like finding a job.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, where do you want to go?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you want to live?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can live because you're gonna be able to get a job anywhere.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, for me, that's what college athletics should be.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: They they get the competitiveness, but like they're gonna go get a really good job.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they're not gonna have like we're a private school, and people are always like, well, it's so expensive.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, it's it's not.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's really not.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like those girls are gonna get one of the best PA degrees, one of the best nursing degrees, and have probably no dad.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And get a job that's making, I can assure you, far more than I am.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: So right.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: How many, how many youth soccer players do you think turn down women's college soccer because they want to go in the medical field and they don't think that that can happen?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't necessarily see that a ton here.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I and I've been around a long time.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know like like this is uh for sure a question, right?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you and I'm sure I think Louie talked about it.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you go to Michigan or do you go to a Detroit and play soccer?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really deal with that, I don't think, because I think we are a pretty good school.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like, do I want to go to a big school with football and you know all of that, or do I want to go to a smaller school with, you know, a PA class could have six kids in it.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's more what we get to.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think at least now with the research and and access, like kids are are figuring out, like they can play here and be a doctor or a nurse or a PA or or whatever they want, or even a dentist.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have girls going into dentistry.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's I think our program if you if you go in right away is seven years, right?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we we can make it work.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: We have girls that like uh want to do their like a dual MBA law program, like we'll figure it out.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: It might not be the easiest, but we'll figure it out.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Does it make your job in the portal a little bit easier?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're in the portal, most of the time it's because of your soccer situation.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like with what this school brings, it could be just because solely academic.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I want to get into that med program or the dentistry program or the NBA.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I would say to some extent it does, to some extent it doesn't.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're a grad transfer, for sure.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think they're a little bit more mature, they know what they want.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: They know that they're not gonna be a professional soccer player.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right, they know they're not gonna be a professional soccer player.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so like they they know what they want a little bit more, right?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, you know, undergrad, it's it's still a bit tougher because I mean the cost of doing business in the portal is is high.
• 18:07
  unknown: Jesus.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you're talking about like over the top, like here's what do you mean the cost of doing business?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Are you talking about like, okay, here's your scholarship, and then here's extras?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, both, yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um, I think that we live in a world now with the portal.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's yeah, there's a million people in the portal, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so inevitably, I'm sure there's coaches just reaching out, reaching out, reaching out, like reaching out to everyone.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's services now that like will try to reach out and like these recruiting services that will, oh, this person, this person, this person.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure even the recruits that I talk to that are in the portal are getting a million emails from everyone.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So then you you put yourself in a situation where you know you you're in the portal, you're getting a million million emails.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you whittle those down?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so inevitably, I feel like with a lot of kids it gets to the point where it's like, okay, well, I need a full ride, and then let's talk about NIL.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, okay, well, no, we're like, we can't, that's we can't do that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think in one end there's that.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: On the other end, there's a lot of grad transfers that are like, oh, hey, like, you know, can I you have a really good NBA?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or like whatever it is.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So like they're a little bit more mature and they know what they want to do.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um Are there uh companies that work just with the transfer portal players?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is brought to you by the North American Soccer Expo.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you remember last year when I had Alexi Lawless on, so many of you were blown away and kept on messaging me how did you get Alexi Lawless to talk to you?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest with you, it was the North American Soccer Expo.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: The expo has workshops and seminars and field presentations from top coaches and industry experts.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I will be there this year.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be set up on podcast row.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to the podcasts that I'm going to be filming there, I'm also going to have an open hour where any coach at the expo or anybody at the expo can come sit down at the chair and have a one-on-one, 15-minute chat with me, and you guys can just come and chat and talk about whatever you want.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: North American Soccer Expo, July 30th to August 1st, Nova, Michigan.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you there.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like NCSA or something like that.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't use them, but I get emails all the time like let us through the portal for you.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: How many girls the portal just opened, right?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: May 1st it opens.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: May 1st.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we're what, four days away?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: How many are gonna be able to do that?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Which is another chaos that would nobody talks about.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know when our season ended?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Last week.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And how many okay, how many rosters or how many roster spots do you have right now going into the fall?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Three.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So are well it's a it's a so technically I we have three available spots.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: But part of that is we have one and then we have two girls that were designated players, so they don't count against our roster at this point.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we could technically pick up three transfers.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Which again is chaos because do you keep those spots?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is anybody else leaving?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for us, we're lucky nobody is, but what happened?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: What is this?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on with the five and five?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is that happening?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like when will that decide?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Be decided, like November.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you asked me a month ago, I would say it's not happening.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you I mean, I don't have any insider information, I'm just going off what I.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Read.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And now last week they said, Well, we got we want to vote on it in May, and it happened in June.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how does that happen?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: But then, okay, what's going to happen to like a senior that's already played four?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Are they going to get a fifth year?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what's going to happen?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it like only the new players?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because parents of incoming freshmen are pissed off and yelling at me because of the five and five, because I would like it personally.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I also like the time clock on it because of the men's side, it would help with the international crisis.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what happens with girls that like stop, you know, like our seniors don't play with us in the spring.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: What can they come back and play?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I is it kind of gets a roster.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my point in this whole thing is I I honestly don't care.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: People talk about it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if there's NIL, I'm fine with it.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if there's five and five.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just, I don't care if there's a roster cap.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just figure it out.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even think about that.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: We know what we can do.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even think about that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: So think about this.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: You had seniors that didn't weren't with you at all during the spring because they were done in the fall, right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then, oh, by the way, you have another year of eligibility if you want it.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then wait, we're already capped at 28.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: We we don't have a spot for you.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that gonna make wow?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't is that gonna make the 28 rule go away?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because what was that transition like?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Going from you had how many 38?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: What did you say before we were on it?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like something like that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: 35, 35, 30, 35.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then, and it helps here because you're talking about girls missing training all the time because of their academic demands.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have a bigger roster.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: But that's yeah, what was that transition like?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me let me start further forward because it's just chaos.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Period.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been here what, seven, eight years now?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I started a week before preseason, right?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I come into this team and I'm just like, I don't know the players, I don't know the recruits, I know nothing.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just take over, right?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And in the preseason.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, let's figure it out.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And go through that season.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a great season.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: We won one game, but I think we figured out what we wanted to do and how we wanted to build a program and develop players and do this.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then what happens right after that season?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: COVID.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: COVID hits.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think a year and a half, two years, we have a recruiting ban basically, right?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: We can't bring players in, we can't go watch players.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, okay, film I think started getting bigger, and that was a positive, but you couldn't really do camps, you couldn't watch players, you couldn't bring them on campus.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're kind of screwed.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we I think we won the next year three games and five games.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of had our system that we wanted to do.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to build a program, develop players.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you might sit for a year or two, but we're gonna just keep building.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then NIL and then transfer portal.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then in people don't say about the transfer portal, I'm not against it.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if somebody is transferring in May, you know what I mean?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we supposed to do?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that there's not a good time to transfer and there's done not a right fit and all that, but I've had kids, you know, like they they'll they'll be happy as can be.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then I listen, I I probably get myself in trouble more than I should on this, but you know, behind the scenes, there's like, well, hey, you know, club coach, like I'd be interested in her if she, you know, wanted to jump in the transfer portal.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't talk to her, but like just hey, like, you know, we all work in the club world, we all know these people.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, hey, like this person, she she might be interested in transferring, but she doesn't know if there's a spot for her.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Could you find out?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I just hate that because it's so not right and it's so against it, but it happens all the time.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, what if a kid leaves, you know, in May 1st?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Then what do you do?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: So then you have this rust.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So then, you know, part of our why we got so big is then kids are here for school, right?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you have these COVID seniors now.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, you have kids like if they redshirted, most of our kids are going to a five-year program anyway.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing five-year MBA, five-year PA.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna be here.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: So then they're redshirted, they're still around.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then all of a sudden you go to a 28 roster cap.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not only do we have to let go of a ton of players, but also the whole system that we've been trying to develop of bringing kids in that maybe were under-recruited or maybe want to stay closer to home and develop thing them.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: How do you do that anymore?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's gone.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's gone.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I say all the time we had a player here that didn't play for two years and then started for two years.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't happen anymore.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to nail all of your recruits.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be I have a class of 10 players.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Lewis Robinson was talking about this.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I hit on three, I miss on three, and then they got the players in the middle.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, now you're recruiting four players per I'm taking you know calls from people and they keep asking me, like, what are you doing for 27?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're graduating three seniors.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think I'm doing for 27?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna wait for the portal.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna recruit any freshmen at this point, and you know, things change, people will leave, but why would I?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that's right.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: But we're a very young team right now, right?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, if you want to win and you have three spots, are you gonna take a freshman or you're unsure of?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you gonna try to find a you know, transfer that could help you right away?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that like recruiting can be a little bit easier at times because of the academics?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're do you ever only go after med students or only that want to go med?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's not a lot of kids that want to go into the medical field.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or there is, and then they switch out.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's easier.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's harder because and not not necessarily because of the school, but I think the school kind of gets us in the door.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think a lot of kids they they see you know, they see well, it's an eastern, an Oakland, a western, a Michigan, Michigan State, and it's the environment is different, right?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love it here because you can do so many things.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, it's a small school, but you could still have your on-campus activities, but you can go to a concert in Detroit, you can live in Royal Oak or Ferndale, like but you know, I I certainly understand the I want to go to tailgate a football game on Saturdays, and so like I think it's more the big school versus small school initially.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then and then I think I think it's a little tougher because as they go through the process, as they get a little bit more mature, and as they're I think it recruitings become later as they're because junior, late junior year, early senior year, they're like, okay, you know, actually, I really want to be a nurse, and there's other things I enjoy, and I can still be a student and play, and there's you know, even though it's a small school, I I'd still enjoy it.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I think that's more the battle we we fight than than anything.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then again, we live in a different world.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I say this all the time if you're a 17-year-old and you can go to a really good school and let's say pay nothing, but get a really good degree.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Purses, you can go to another school get okay, you're gonna be a nurse, pretty good degree, but it's not a Detroit mercy.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um but they're gonna pay you$5,000.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna choose?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, long term it might not make sense.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it could, maybe it couldn't, but it's really like which is is is again, honestly, like in talking about it is part of my problem with where we're at now is I feel like kids are so unprepared for what they're going into.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: As far as as far as college athletics.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is that because of the time?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Where what where do you think we're missing?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think what do you think these kids are missing coming from the club environment?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, we're we don't even need to talk about kids that think that they're all that because they play for a certain club and they think that they're gonna step in because they've been the best player on their ECNL or their GA team, and then they're gonna step in and be like, hey, don't you know who I played for?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, but did you know who she played for four years ago?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know who she played for three years ago?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know like what is it?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, and again, hopefully I'm not giving myself in trouble, but I just say what I think.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you edit.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you the uh I'll give you uh final cut.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think number one, we were talking about this before, competitively, it's not the same as it used to be.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of kids are playing in showcases, like it's just a and I and I don't love tournaments like three games a week, but you're playing for something.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: In State Cup, remember how it used to be?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're playing for something.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, and if you don't win, you might not be an MRL and your your Prem 1 games.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't win, if you don't finish in top, you might not like you're playing for something, like that competition.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think, I think we've gone to like, yeah, in ECNL, a lot of times elite kids are playing with elite kids.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I'm not in it, I don't coach in it, I never have.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're average in the ECNL, what happens to you?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to tournaments?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Are you just showcases?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't play in State Cup.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not a thing like so, like for me on the soccer side, it's it's competitiveness.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I also would say, like, I think that we have gone down a path where we believe certain things are right.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you don't play out of the back, you're not good enough.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, why?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: For for me, I say this all the time.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say it to everybody recruit soccer's a game, it's meant to be won or lost, period.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, it was maybe that playing a certain stuff, maybe playing like Pep Guardiola is the way you should play, but maybe it's not.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Should we talk about how Leicester City or Liverpool for a while were counter-attacking teams?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like nobody thinks that.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think in clubs, when parents are paying, this is what they want to see.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I truthfully believe sometimes if you were to play direct soccer and win every game, versus you were to play this like tiki-talkie pep guardiola type.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Build out of the back, build out of the back, and and lose, parents would enjoy that more.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not, you know, there's a whole development.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wins versus winning versus development.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about elite players.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not talking about the young ones, I'm talking about you're a junior or senior sophomore in high school, and I think at that point you should be, yeah, you should be learning and developing, but you should be winning.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're playing a team, like I I say this, but I went to uh I won't say which league, but I went to a showcase once and it and everybody was clear it was one team builds, the other team drops, and then they build through ball to the goalkeeper.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: That team drops off, this team builds, and it was that was the whole game.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: There was no it was 4-3-3, there was no creativity.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Ask somebody to play against a 4-4-2 right now in club.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know what to do.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean there's four midfielders?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what am I supposed to do?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ask a team to high press or to play out against a high press, or God forbid, if they're gonna high press us, maybe we should play long.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: But no, no, no, don't do that.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what that's about winning.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I think on the soccer side, that's what I'm talking about.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: But more than that is I think a lot of people don't understand now there's a 28 roster cap.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's call this what it is.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's professional.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: It is, right?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have to win.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: We have only 28 spots.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not, you know, gonna play, if you're not good enough, you don't have a spot anymore.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I hate I hate that because we we wanted to be student athletes when we talked about how you know girls should be nurses and and their job is their job, but but also if you're getting paid and you're getting full scholarships and there's only 28 spots, and you know, it's more of a professional environment.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, maybe you don't play as a freshman.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: I because I know a lot of sometimes club kids, if they're not getting what they want, they're gonna go to that club.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: So do you just jump in the portal?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I'm not saying it's always wrong, I'm not saying it's always justified, but is it always right too?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't, you know, I'm not I'm not playing, so I'm just gonna go transfer.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, again, maybe that's the right decision for the kid, but also maybe they were just behind a senior and next year's gonna be their year, or maybe they just needed to develop this skill.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe, you know what I mean?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was just they didn't realize where the fitness was gonna be, or it was just hard, or it's really tough being away from home and traveling your first year.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe they weren't in the weight room enough, and and it uh I think they're unprepared for that side where it is if you are, and I'm not saying necessarily us, but all college sports, if you're not getting paid, if there's also a roster cap, if there's a transfer portal where you have to compete to stay on a team, are kids truly recognizing it?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do they know that?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do they realize that they might go to a school and get cut?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you okay?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you said that like your recruiting is later than it used to be.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: What's your June 15th gonna be like this year?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are you reaching out to juniors?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or you said that 27th is is not there, right?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or the the 27th class, you're only recruiting three.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are you already working on 2028, or are you just gonna wait and just see how it goes?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna wait and see how it goes.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: So kids need to know that that's what it is.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like the June 15 calls, somebody somebody messaged me.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, okay, is it true that on June 15th people want you to commit?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: I have a girl that's a freshman out Wisconsin, and uh girls that are already committed that had a June 15th, like a ton of June 15th calls earlier.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, they want you to get on campus, meet you face to face, and then they'll offer.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: If they if they but if they're calling you on June 15th and they're inviting you in, you're probably gonna get an offer or whatnot.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: But but I feel like there's less and less kids getting called, and then the panic sets in.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get a call.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get a call.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, dude, you're still a sophomore.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're a junior now or you're in that year, but it's like, can you guys calm down just a little bit?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's okay to commit late.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think you we always hear about the right fit.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're more likely to pick a right the right school for you if you wait until senior year.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's what, and again, I I don't want to say what other people do or should do, but I for us, again, that's what that's how I feel.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, I think there is a a reality of next year, we want to see what our freshmen do.
• 38:02
  unknown: Right.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: We want to see what is in the portal.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is anybody leaving?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so certainly like I'm lucky, uh Elliot and Emma, my assistants work at Liverpool.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: So they're around Regional League, ECNL, like they're around all these people.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we pretty much are local, like most of our kids are local, so they get to see them a lot, even though maybe we're not reaching out necessarily to everyone, we're seeing a lot of kids.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we kind of know, okay, like this kid, this kid, this kid.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, for me at this point, I don't know how our freshmen are gonna pan out next fall.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's gonna happen in the mid-year transfer portal.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: I and I know I only have three seniors, so I don't know what I'm gonna be.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and the other part of that is yes, like at Detroit Mercy, you have to know what you want to do.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're not coming here to figure it out.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: You need to know I will I want to be a nurse or a PA or an architect or like you're not coming here to do general studies.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I found out if I bring kids early, sometimes they're turned off because they're just looking at the glitz and the glam, right?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does your facility look like?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's the gear look like?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like all these type of things.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and we're a smaller school.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's it is what it is.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: We have some nice things and we're building some nice things.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we're never gonna be a Michigan State or Michigan.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're never gonna have the things that they have.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think once they've kind of gone through that process a little bit and realized, okay, this is where I fit, kind of at this level, and this is what I want to do.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know what I want to do.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not gonna be like, oh, you don't have teachings.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's fine, I'll do business.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, like, and that happens a lot.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, like you want to be a teacher, go be a teacher.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Don't don't come to Detroit Mercy.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's fine.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: How quickly do you you talked about your freshmen and like see how they are gonna adapt.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: When do you know that a freshman is just not gonna adapt?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty quickly.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is brought to you by Salt Athletic.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: A couple weeks ago, I'm training one of my college players.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, she plays at Kentucky.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: I noticed that she has uh one of these salt bags.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I see them on social media all the time, and I was wondering, I was like, okay, does this thing really work?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she opened up her bag and pulled her cleats out, and it was the worst smelling pair of cleats, maybe that I've ever smelled.
• 40:32
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• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it was amazing that it could tramp in all of the smell so that her bag doesn't stink, then her car doesn't stink.
• 40:46
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• 40:49
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• 40:55
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• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think the problem with your answer is you shouldn't necessarily know quickly, I don't think.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's hard.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I've seen it all, I've seen freshmen that come in and just kill it right away.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen freshmen that do well but then get better.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen, you know, kids that are away from home and now it's a lot, and like they just need that kind of winter time to go home over break and just be like, okay, it's okay.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then they come back in the spring with a different mindset, and now they're playing a bit more, and it gets you know going.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen kids, it doesn't okay.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: I need to come in as a sophomore because now I know what to expect.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: But again, you have a 28 roster cap.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna have to make those decisions earlier.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, the truth of the matter, which I don't think enough people are saying, is back in the day, if you didn't want a kid on your roster anymore, you're just like, okay, you can keep your scholarship, but like you're not on the team anymore.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: That happens all the time.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, big school they'll just be like, no.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know big schools have cut kids in preseason.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think parents or or club kids understand that.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and it's gotten to be more of a business.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, me, I never wanted to do that because kids are coming here with the right intentions.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe I would have the conversation with them of like, hey, I don't see you playing, but we wouldn't kick them off the team.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have to now, right?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: But also with the 28 roster cap, if you're on academic aid or if you're on athletic aid, you take up a roster spot.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Regardless.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Regardless.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to figure out earlier is this kid gonna make it?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna transfer?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: What's gonna happen?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and I have a girl in Nebraska, and they had a uh somebody that graduated high school early, goes, she's there during the spring, they cut her.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: They cut her because and uh from what I hear of other girls, like it would she probably needed to be cut just because of the level and stuff like that.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: But that's happening all over these early commits or these early graduating players, they're going in in the spring and thinking that they're gonna get a leg up.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: You just gave that coach more time to realize that you're not right for that program.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and again, just being really cutthroat about this.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a freshman after your first semester, yeah, are you more likely to transfer?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you're a junior going into your senior year, you're life more likely to transfer if you're a freshman.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because once you're a junior, sure, you've got everything.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're one more year left.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had a girl out of uh western or uh eastern Kentucky that was like that.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I got one more year, I love the school, I'm gonna stay.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: That got cut that ended up getting
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it sounds bad, but if you don't want that person on your roster, you don't need them to transfer.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry if that's harsh, but that's the reality of the situation.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna need them to transfer because you they still get the scholarship.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Who pays the scholarship?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that go against your yeah?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: So like people are probably gonna say, like, there there is a rule right now that you can kind of be grandfathered in.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like if you were on aid pre-cap.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: But not like say our freshmen coming in next year, if they're getting athletic aid, I can't like remove them from the roster unless they transfer.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're not good enough, I can't really do anything about it unless they transfer.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: So as a coach, what are you gonna do?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna wait till they're junior and then say, well, they didn't develop, or are you gonna try to ask them to transfer after their freshman semester?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna ask them to transfer.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I don't love it.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't love the system.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: I say I didn't make the system, but but that to me is the problem is there's so much chaos, and we don't like how many things have changed in the last eight years.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's just how we run our program, how we want to build a program has changed.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: But but not only that, like, when are we gonna have the conversation of like why aren't there contracts?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's obvious, isn't it?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know because everyone, everyone I know, just like, why aren't there contracts?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're gonna be pro, just be pro.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I could sign you to a one year.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: You want to bet on yourself?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: One year.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: I could sign you to a four-year.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: How about I sign you to a four-year contract and you kill it?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, hey, coach, I really want to go play at Michigan State.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Jeff really wants me to come play.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there's a buyout.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: And Michigan State has to pay it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: How about that?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then you recoup some of the like some money, and I think that's what I think that's gonna happen.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's gonna be transfer fees.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Alex said that in his in in his episode, that the closest thing that we have to the European model is college sports.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but here's the thing the youth game is going away from that.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like like what do you mean?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it used to be right, like you college, you kind of were there.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could transfer, yeah, but you really didn't, right?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you didn't.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: But now it's just like I'm unhappy.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm unhappy, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that it makes me even more sad when you see thousands of people, and and some of them probably won't play.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, look at the basketball portal.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: The basketball portal at midnight had like 2,000 kids in it.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, geez.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say on the youth game, like, come on, like if you're on an ECNL team, like you're probably staying on that team.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: And as long as yeah.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: We we've been around clubs, and I I shouldn't say ECNL, it's most clubs.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're on that team, you're probably just gonna continue to have a spot on that team, and then you don't get I I don't think you truly understand competitively now what college is.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's pro.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't make it, you're gonna be asked to leave.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that that's it, right?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and it's a rude awakening.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a rude awakening because again, they're coming from an environment where they were the best or one of the best.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: They've if they played high school, they're probably the best player on their high school team, and they get into a college environment where it's like, oh yeah, we're not giving you another year to prove yourself.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like let's move on, let's separate, let's go our separate ways.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that I'm okay with all the rules.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever you want to do, do it.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not against kids getting paid.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not against the transfer portal or against five and five.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just give us a system and then let's prepare our youth kids who want to play in that system of what it's gonna be like and make them understand you could be cut, you could be asked to leave, right?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you want, and again, sometimes this is less about soccer and maybe more about other sports, but if you're gonna get paid, guess what?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be expectations.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's just the reality of the situation.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and do we want it to be like that?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I would prefer it be more like it used to be, where you're there to get an education and you're playing soccer, at least on the women's side.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um what what was the reasoning that you were given for the 28 or the roster role?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: What was the reasoning behind it?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because well, it doesn't make sense to me, but they said it's like unfair to limit scholarships, right?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: So now there's 28 roster, 28 scholarships.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: So in theory, the NCA is not limiting how much money you can give a kid for a scholarship.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: You could, in theory, give all 28 people on your roster a full ride.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it goes program to program because some are fully funded and you get the 28, and then some you might only get 12.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how it works?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: And where does the scholarship money come from?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Does it come out of the program or does it come out of the school?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an idiot.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, it's all it's all out of the school at the end of the day, right?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have we have a budget that we have to go off of, but I mean, at the end of the day, it's all coming from the school, right?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Your budget that you told me earlier.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: Does that include scholarships?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but do you get a you get a scholarship budget?
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or do they say in fairness, I don't want to get into the weeds with it, but because we're a private school and we give a lot of academic aid, like we're stacking more, so it's a lot more complicated than just you know, yeah, here's here's your money.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: And let's be honest, if you're getting into here, you're probably a good student, you're gonna get some academic help as well.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Our our girls on our team all get a substantial amount of academic.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean a substantial amount.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's that's why it's tough because at Detroit people will see this huge price tag.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like 30,000.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: But like if you like most of our girls that are playing for us have around a 3.5, they're getting most of that taken away up front.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Academically.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think do you think they would ever lift that 28?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is the men's the same?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is the men's 28 as well?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: I believe fully funded depending on the program.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do I think that no, because they're I think their thing was we're getting sued because we're limiting scholarship access access to scholarships.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we're just gonna say you can give unlimited scholarships.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Again, maybe this was to your point.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've said this to people at all.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: If a school is giving 28 scholarships, who cares if they give 35 or 40?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why not just like okay, you can give whatever?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if we're paying NIL anyway, who cares?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let them pay what they want to pay.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, like, okay, if you want to, if you want to go to X school as player number 40, and you're getting a full ride as opposed to going to Detroit Mercy as player number 10, and you're still getting a full ride.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, that's your choice.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: You really want to do that?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on my what my major.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: You'll see you're on the transfer portal next year.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: If I really wanted to play.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Man, it's wild.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is Genie the like it it's not getting put back in the bottle.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Especially with how crazy club soccer is now.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they're all expecting.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you do the math, let's just talk about the ECNL.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you just did the math of each age group of five or six age groups, that's 18 to 24 kids on a roster multiplied by 130 clubs times five or six age groups.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's not that many college spots in the at the D1 level.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, press plus the cost just doesn't make sense.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's just call it what it is.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, part of me too is like I have two young kids, right?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like they're too young to play.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but like my I am obviously involved in soccer.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: My wife played at Oakland.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we I mean, if our kids don't play soccer, we won't be upset.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: But like we want our kids to play soccer.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, that is like how do you think I'm and and I'll be I have two boys, and I don't I have no idea about the men's side.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know what's good and what's bad.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many leagues that I have no idea the men's side.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe one day I'll know.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, do you think I'm paying 10,000 plus?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm including travel and everything for my kid to play MLS next or whatever?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: I can't afford that.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: My parents couldn't.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like back in the day, there's no way.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way I would be able to play soccer today.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: But so, like, we're like, well, what do we do?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and guess what?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: On the other hand, if my kid is terrible, but he loves playing soccer, I'm not gonna pay four or five thousand dollars for him to play.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you just love the game, can we play it a thousand dollars for a year to play, right?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like exactly.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think for me, it's like I think by nature I'm just like a questioner of things, and I'm just like, when is somebody gonna and and you can maybe I'm wrong, but like when are we gonna have a conversation of like, are we doing it right?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know what I know?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it uh this is gonna be a maybe provocative comment.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that right now we are producing more elite players than we did 25 years ago.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: I agree 1000%.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're producing more like average and a little bit above average players than we did 25 years ago, but you can't tell me we're producing more elite players back then.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what I did as a player?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: And most of my the people I grew up with, at least, I played in the fall.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I did in the winter?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: I played hockey.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe we had a boarded team that kind of played.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then I played, you know, tennis and golf and basketball.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe like, but like in the winter we weren't practicing.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: We just like went and played once a week.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, in the spring, like, okay, we had practice, but like we were doing other things.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why why have we gotten to the point where everyone has to play all year round?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the only way.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we have eight teams sharing a really expensive indoor 11v11 field?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: When we couldn't how we did it, we trained on gym floors that were basically free because we're a community club.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for a while, when I came back from Ball State for a while, I was the DOC at Royal Oak.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what we did was like, which I think is phenomenal, these people are putting up these like 9v9, just like, you know what I mean?
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like the little warehouses.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then we uh rented the gyms.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: So like we did futs all one time, and it was like 50 bucks or something for the night.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we could get the fees lower and get more kids in.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and guess what?
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if my kid is really good at an older age, I would be willing to pay more.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying I'm gonna be will like I don't want to pay two thousand dollars to go out to San Diego to play in a showcase.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we could play really good teams here and just constantly do soccer tourism.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to pay, I don't want another mortgage on my house for my kid to be able to play soccer.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'd be willing to pay, you know, a couple thousand dollars if he was good.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've never heard that phrase.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Soccer tourism.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: Should I attribute it to Mark Zathy?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or Z says Z?
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: Z gave me that one.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um God.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, that's what it is.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: It is like what why can't we it's in it, and I agree too, like it sucks for some of the states that can't do that.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: But here, like, I remember, I don't know if you remember this, but it was probably it was a while ago now.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: There was the showcase at Wixham.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if Jags put it on, but it was like I maybe it was like 02 girls or 2000 girls.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was like Midwest United had one of the top teams in the state, Hawks had one of the top teams.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was Liverpool or um Varda or whoever.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, there's like five Jags was in it, like five top girls teams in the state all got together and played at Wixham in a showcase.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: And every college coach from everywhere was like this.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: How fantastic is that?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: But they don't want to do it anymore.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: But this year there were they did it and there was like a hundred coaches there, but it's like I don't know why okay.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: You just said you said that most of your roster is local for the most part, or a lot of your roster is.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: What is the point of a lot of these club kids going all the way to California for a showcase, or Texas for a showcase, or Florida for a tow uh for a showcase, when most of the rosters are going to be going to a school within three hours of where they are right now?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that wild?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't pay for my kid to do it.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess there's a point where you could say, like, it would be like I used I loved the days back when there was the Disney showcase or there was Raleigh and you just went to one.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you got to play Wags, you got to play uh all all these other okay teams, and you got to see what else was out there, but you weren't going to Arizona and then San Diego and then Texas.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, I don't think it's necessary.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think you could how many times even then would you go to Disney Showcase and you'd play two teams from Michigan?
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, this is interesting.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, again, I I I don't know.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the answer.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: I wish there was more clubs that were just like, hey, I feel like now it's like it's just it's keeping up.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: We have to do more, more, more, more, more, more, more.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's some people, truthfully, that are like, we're gonna do more because we can charge more.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's other people that are like, we're gonna do more because we can we have to keep up with them.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm saying, when is somebody gonna just shock the narrative and be like, guess what?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need to do if you're on a C team, and maybe, maybe you love the game.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: But let's be honest, like, you're not gonna be a professional or division one, you're probably not gonna play in college.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: But and if you want to pay more, okay, pay more.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: But if not, I think you would get better by playing in a gym.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: It would certainly cost less.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: When you're talking about like budget and recruiting budget, how how often are you like all of you and Elliot going to the same event?
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or you would try to split your time of like one of you go to GA, one of you go to ECNL, or do you spend it somewhere else?
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or you go up to Canada.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know that like what we use when I was here and it was Jamie and it was Mike, they'd hit Canada really hard and then and then local.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty much what their roster was.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have a recruiting budget, so so it's a lot of local, so you're going out to Vardar, you're or well.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: Our recruiting budget is it's fundraise, so it's whatever we raise, but I'm sure I can assure you we have a lot of other things to spend.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're lucky.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I do ODP, state and regional.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I get that.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Emma and Elliot are are at Liverpool, so they get around the events and showcases just through clubs.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is Elliot with RL program at Liverpool or with ECNL or what's he doing?
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: Elliot, they both do RL.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: Emma does a little bit of ECNL too.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think some of these events, yeah.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's some of the events have both.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: But still, there's a there's a good, and then they're they're training with you know, or seeing the ECNL kids.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: They're seeing when people come play Liverpool.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: But again, like I'm I'm from here, so I know like I'm I'm pretty confident if I call talk to Demir or Tinny or Scoby or Z or Nick Aaron.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm I've known these guys forever.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure that they're gonna give me and I have the same kind of contact system in in at least like the Windsor and kind of Toronto area.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm pretty lucky on that regard.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, for us, we've had a little bit more of an international flavor.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have a couple kids uh from England, we had a girl from Australia, so I know that a little bit.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I lived in Australia, Elliot's from England, he has contacts there.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: My old boss at Ball State, he's English and he coached, you know, national teams and stuff.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: So like there's this a network that I listen, I I could never afford to bring three coaches to San Diego for an easy novel.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't afford to go myself.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's just the truth.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: So like I I think we're very lucky that where we're at, I can drive to the Jag Showcase or I can drive and watch Hawks practice or Liverpool or or you know, whoever it is.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I can go up to Nationals, you know.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: Dave Robertson invited us, we'll go up and watch their training session.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's easy.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys ever go and do training sessions with anybody yet?
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know like Tigers are doing that.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know I think Midwest did something like that.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: Liverpool doesn't.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if the Hawks do it.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, i not really.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't have time.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: But like Jags Camp, that used to be phenomenal.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Jags Camp.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know Jags Camp?
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody knows Jags Camp.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: I have I've been in Buffalo the last 11 years.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: What is Jags Camp?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, just they did they bring college coaches in from everywhere and they have all their teams, and I think Canton's part of it.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can sign up if you're just a normal player as well, but you don't you they just bring coaches in and all week.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're just every team, you're just coaching a session with the team.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, like for me, I would ask for the just still go on, yeah.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been doing this for 15 years, and that's in the summer?
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the summer, which is gonna be also if if you're the Jags guys, we start earlier this year.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: We start July 20th, and that's I think July 13th is when we come back.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: July 13th is is the start date.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: Does that mean that games are being moved up to the start?
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're just trying to slow down like no two-a-days, like you can only train.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like a get acclimated to it process.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: But we're not bringing our girls in until the 20th.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it's I don't even can we just avoid that subject because most people don't know it.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have foreign players and they're freshmen, it takes they can only get their visa 30 days before school starts.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: So like our Canadians won't be able to come until not even Canadians can come.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh freshmen, they can't come until what, July?
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, August 1st.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, what's that gonna do with the men's programs?
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can you can maybe get them into summer school if you want.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um they just have to like establish four ways.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: But here, we I mean, we can't we can't do that.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys ever have anybody like graduate high school early and bring and try to bring them in?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't I don't love it.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I loved high school, yeah.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was an experience.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was and that's again you miss out on stuff, you miss on prom.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: I had a girl miss her graduation because she had to be at Arkansas like the day before.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just think there's so much more.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, again, it it's it's to me questioning all of it.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're doing all stuff, like, why aren't kids playing other sports?
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a huge I I attribute a lot, I say this all the time.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: You play basketball?
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know how to block out?
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hold somebody off, yeah.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pass and move.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hockey, same thing.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: You it all translates move, you have to think quickly.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many things defending a free kick, I think, is like you know, defending in basketball.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely it is, and there's so many things that you don't get because you're just playing soccer, soccer.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's and there's so many scenes one way I'm doing this one thing over and over because this is how we play, and this is what we're gonna do.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like the same with like if you're a really good club player and you go to a terrible high school team, maybe you have to put the team on your back.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you have to lead, maybe you have to figure it out.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: You have to talk.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're gonna walk us.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, learn how to lose.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's part of it, and I think like we're taking that away.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're taking so much away in the effort, again, I go back to in the effort of I think I think good people trying to say, how can we make better players?
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're not, and I don't think that coaches are bad people and they're not trying to develop players or they're just whatever.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: But clearly the system is not working, and so let's think about it.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do we need to train on an 11v11 field all winter?
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, look at the winter now, we've gone to like I think my team played four games in the winter, and it cost a ridiculous amount of money.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we Should let kids explore playing basketball and volleyball and whatever.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's part of their development.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: All I know is like, let's have a conversation about it because clearly this isn't working.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever wonder why we do play in the winter?
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like, why don't we play more in the summer?
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why do we take July off, but we try to train during December?
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think people want to go away in the summer, maybe.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's the excuse.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's the excuse I've gotten at least.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: But like, but now I I see all the time there's all these like, I mean, there's camps in the summer, there's these 3v3 tournaments, there's the sand soccer.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's people that are like still committed to doing a lot of stuff.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't say that I have the answer, but like, hey, let's have a conversation of how do we make it cheaper, that more people can take part in it, and how do we do it better?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it'll happen.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, again, I go back to constantly things were I thought things were pretty cool when State Cup mattered.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: I everyone, I mean, I we'd still talk, you know, I don't know, Dave Demeter, Nick Darren, those guys, we'd still talk about those those days at Rush when you like those days leading up to State Cup, it was serious.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you had your three coaches on the bench, and you like, and then let alone you got to Saginaw or whatever.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and regionals were up in Saginaw.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy, and just the effort that was put into developing and to winning, and even uh effort from the players, because I I do think it is easy for a player to show up on Tuesday and Thursday, and I got a game on the weekend, and then I don't think about soccer at all.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because what if I if I lose my Prem 1 game, yeah, it's okay.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here I go, back home.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_00: Where back in that day, you need to win all those games because you need to win Prem One and you need to try to get to MRL.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: If not, you need to win State Cup.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's like, okay, we played a game, we lost, okay.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't, I'm not saying like anybody should be beat up of a loss, but you tell me I come home from a college game, win or lose, and I am spent.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm emotionally drained.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that feeling for the players of how competitive a Horizon League match is, what it truly means, every single game.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think they understand that until they're here.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't think they get that anymore.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right, because they go to these showcases that don't go towards their conference record or anything like that.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what's your purpose in a showcase?
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: To get seen individually, right?
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've had a lot of experience with girls that they'll lose all three games, but they're happy because so-and-so was there to watch two out of the three games.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody stays for the third day because everybody's going home that day.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: But like, why are why do you even play three days?
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, it's so dumb.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there winning doesn't matter anymore because we're so we attacked it.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: We we outlawed it.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: We said, we said, oh, let's focus on development.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, the whole reason why the development academy started in 07 was wasn't so that we got rid of winning, it was so that we had more meaningful games because they were sick of seeing scores 10-0.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, I think I think it's tough because you you have to have a nuanced opinion, right?
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like my uh girls' team at DCFT, we play pretty good soccer.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we try to play out of the back and we try to build the game and play through the lines.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: Inevitably, we play the other teams that just fired at the goal and score.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so we do lose some games because we're trying to develop a system and we're trying to get better technically.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: And at that age, I'm okay with it.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there needs to be now.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: If like we were in a tournament last weekend and we needed to win our last game, am I changing that game to try to win?
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do my kids know that we might go to a 3-3-4 and what that means?
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they do.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there is some essence of winning.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I think as you get up even more, yeah, there should be some competition.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: There should be some winning.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_00: You should want to win the league, you should want to win a State Cup or a tournament.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like you should get into a season where every game matters.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like here, if you you tie a game or you lose a game or you win, you you're all the time, you're counting points.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where are we at?
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we fit?
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need to do?
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, who's next?
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Blah, blah, blah.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're looking at that, and that's exhausting.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But that's also real.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, again, I think like the MLS system has just come down to you soccer.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't why don't we have promotion relegation?
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like it used to be, like, true.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're if you start a little club, and again, I don't know much about boys, but let's say it's girls, you start a little club and you develop a team and you win and you win and you win.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let them be in ECNL.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you're at ECNL and you're consistently in the bottom, see ya.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, again, I'm not saying that we are not trying to develop kids, and I'm not saying that there aren't good coaches that are trying to develop kids, but inevitably we have to sit back and look at and say that the system is letting us down because like Luby was saying, that where's the competition?
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where is it?
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not afraid of going down, well, you know, and if there's no uh, you know, situation where you can move up, why would you know, if you're a club that's not ECNL or doesn't have GA, you're probably not gonna get it.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the competition is no longer team versus team, and it's on it's not on the field, it's league versus league, right?
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And who has the most college coaches at their events?
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's literally what we're keeping score of now.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Good luck developing world-class players in that type of system.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_01: You wonder why the best are forgoing college and they're going right into the NWS Hub.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or they're leaving, like Michelle Cooper leaving after one year at Duke.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna happen more.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm fine with that.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I just think we're doing a disservice.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_00: If there, if that competition like I think if you do a training session, yeah, and there's no competition, everyone will be like, you have to add competition.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: You should keep score.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: There should be a punishment.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like development overwinning, though.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_01: But why are we keeping score in a 1v1 during the Butterfly?
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Someone will tell you if you do a training session, like uh like we don't do like it'll be like, okay, five push-ups, you know what I mean?
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll compete because I don't want to do five push-ups.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: But everybody, when I was growing up as a coach, was like, you need to compete.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it should you should know the score, you should blah blah blah.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_00: But now in our leagues, we don't demand that.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no consequence for losing, there's no real reward for winning.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what why don't we let clubs develop kids and get into that league?
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Potentially, why not?
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: They win.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Go to RL if you want, get a chance, win an RL.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Go to ECNL.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't isn't it obvious that that would be the best way to do things?
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it should be team by team and not club by club?
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, ECNL requires you to be six deep.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know how hard it is to be competitive in six different age groups?
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Only the Hawks can do it.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Six internationals.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think it should be team by team because again, if I start the Grossiel Islanders and we develop those kids, maybe it's just a couple dads, but those kids want to why we were good because we played.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Every day we played.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_00: We went to the park and we played.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Every day.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if we got a shot, we got our shot.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: We got to play in State Cup.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that was big for us.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Playing all these, you know, big clubs for round.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: We got our shot.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_00: We could have done it.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't, but we could have, you know what I mean?
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, if I wanted to, like I say all the time, like I said, my kids, what am I gonna do?
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I coach the team.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But do I have to go to a cup?
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I want to put together my own team and come compete with your team.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe, hey, we'll start in classic four.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: But we'll climb.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_00: But we'll climb.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's powerful.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_00: How can anybody disagree with that?
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I just I I'm I'm happy to hear.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not saying I've got all the answers or I'm right.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying, how could you possibly disagree with that?
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're on we're at the point though, like you can name BJ Goodman.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: I can name Simone Omakando.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Some of these kids now that don't play.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Don't leave out Nate.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Don't leave out Nate Norman.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Nate and Nate Norman, of course.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, he we got to play against those guys.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the today's player don't even know that they exist.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's in it's behind a closed system.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Nationals is year-round.
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_01: You got uh Hawks is year-round.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: They have a lot of girls, Jags, they have a lot of girls that don't play high school soccer.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_01: So these girls think that they're the best, and they don't even know that there's a whole other level to this.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And oh yeah.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we had to, we we got to play or try to play against the Vardars and the Wolves growing up because of State Cup.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_01: We got that shot.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's gone.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's a closed system.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody, we don't even know if they're actually that good.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know?
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know that they're the best in the area if they you don't play other teams in your area?
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, based on a five-day trial?
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_01: A three-week trial?
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, I'm not trying to, you know, those clubs, I know a lot of those guys, I'm not trying to bring them down or or say anything.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, we know, right?
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you have ECNL, you got the golden ticket, right?
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kids are gonna come to your tryout.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you are a club without ECNL and you develop kids, eventually they're gonna go.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's your reward?
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, do if you are if you're this club, do you really have to develop your own players?
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not you don't.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they don't want to.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they're not trying to, but do you really have to?
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, because kids will come to your program.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you're this, what's your incentive to develop kids because they're just gonna leave?
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_00: How about we just let these guys that develop their kids play against these guys that develop their kids and figure out who's the best.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you lose, that's how it used to be, figure it out and get better.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like as a club, get better, figure it out, get better.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because I bet you if that was, and again, I'm not saying at the young levels we should we should, but as you get older, 15, 16, 17, let them play.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Figure it out who's gonna win, right?
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and then maybe that alters how you want to develop your younger teams instead of saying, okay, all of our teams are gonna play four, three, three, and we're gonna bell out the back, and you know what?
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: That always just turns into kickball at the young age, so let's just keep doing that.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and you nailed it, and I'll that's what has been my beef with the Western New York Flash, is that they have a radius around them of about two hours.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_01: They get all the best talent, and they just they don't have to, they don't have to worry about what is happening at U9, U10, U11, because it's like, don't worry, they'll come.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_01: They'll come.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_01: The Canadians, they'll come.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_01: The Rochester, New York kids, the Syracuse, the Erie Pennsylvania kids, they're all come.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then by 15, they're world beaters.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then people from outside of Western New York are like, man, the Flash do a really good job of developing players.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah.
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, they've they're very good recruiters.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and and that's what we're talking about, and that is just so gone.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I remember, I think it was I was at Country Day at the time.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_01: This has got to be 06, 07, 08, 09, something like that.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Vardar's B team beat Vardar's A team in State Cup, and it caused like a mutiny of the club.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, that doesn't happen anymore either.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's just it's so closed off.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you why so you only have one team at DCFC down?
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Down, yep.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Why did this job kind of take you away of Royal Oak from Royal Oak?
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because just being a DOC and a Well, I I didn't when I was at Ball State, I was just, it was too much.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly was like, I don't know that I want to do college anymore.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, sleeping in airports, flying over, like the stories I could tell you about just here and there.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there was a time I flew to, I think it was like Houston, drove to Dallas, watched a game, slept in the airport, flew home.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_00: My parents picked me up from the airport in Detroit.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Mind you, I'm living in Muncie, Indiana.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Picked me up from the airport in Detroit, drove me up to Central because we were playing Central, got on the bus, went back.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, you know, I want to have a family, I want to have kids.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I came back and just was kind of out of clock college soccer, to be honest.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really think about it.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I did miss it.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I liked the recruiting, but I did that.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then when Detroit, you know, opened up and I got that job, yeah, it was it was just too much.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what got me to DCFC Downriver specifically is yeah, it I kind of live over in that area, but I'm from Downriver.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, when I was playing, I didn't feel like I had, you know, really an option to go play in college.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what the training should be.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what I should do.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so like I'm hopeful that now like I can kind of bring that back to downriver area.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do believe the downriver area has kids that are gritty in athletic.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_00: They just if be brutally honest, I don't think we've had the coaching, and I include myself into that, that the Novis or Northville's or Rochesters or wherever have had traditionally or have now.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, can I now, you know, whatever, a licensed division one head coach, go help bring that up.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's kind of what I do because it's it's home, yeah.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_00: How okay, how did you get the ball?
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, where were you before ball state?
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I was at Concordia.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't want to coach any high, right?
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Done with soccer, and then my athletic director from high school at Rosil called me and said, Hey, do you want a coach?
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, not really, but okay.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that voice.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we did well.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think for I was there two years, then and uh Concordia Ann Arbor, and I'm just scrolling on the internet one night, and like it's like Concordia Ann Arbor women need a coach.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, it's college, you know what I mean?
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, like yeah, I'd love to coach college.
• 1:21:27
  SPEAKER_00: So for six thousand dollars a year, I went and coached at Concordia Ann Arbor.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Three jobs.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_00: My parents were like, like I I got a master's and my and my and my bachelor's is political science.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in politics a little bit and I was gonna move to DC.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, literally had looked at houses, my dad and I, like jobs, interviews, blah, blah, blah, was about to move.
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I just took a job at Concordia Ann Arbor.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And my parents are like, no, you didn't.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I go, they're like, Well, uh, you know, it's full time.
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, it's like six thousand dollars for the full year.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that, um, got involved with Z at Rush.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then Were you Rush downriver?
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, Northville.
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_00: You were in Northville, Northville, you know, connection living out there doing that.
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, yeah, we I think we went from like we were bad when I started at Concordia.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_00: We were, I think when I showed up, we had like 10 players.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was asking kids from the school, like, please come play.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_00: We just need a team.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And my last year, I think we were top 25 in the country.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we went from like winning zero games to like multiple 10 plus year seasons.
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm lucky my boss Craig, who was at Ball State at the time, now he's at IMG, but um gave me a chance, an NAI head coach, but I think he kind of grew up and I think he coached in the smaller schools, so he knew like it's a grind.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't you don't get to show up at at Concordia Ann Arbor and be like, hey, Steve from Concordia Ann Arbor, here's a little bit of scholarship, you're coming, right?
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like you're gonna learn how to sell.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Not like, you know, I joke all the time, and I don't know this is you know, this is certainly different levels, but you don't get to just show up with a Detroit Mercy hat on and be like, hey, Detroit Mercy, here's a scholarship you want to come?
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Where I'm thinking, like, if you're at like Florida State, you could be like, hey, we want you.
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you really learn how to sell.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so then you go to Paul State, which is division one, and it was a situation where they were good, but we had lots lost a lot of players, so we had to kind of rebuild, and there was an expectation, so really quickly I had to learn to sell at that level.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm thankful he gave me the opportunity.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_00: We did really well.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think we won two regular season titles.
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, we didn't get to the tournament.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_00: We lost to Bowling Green in a crazy long shootout in the Mac Championship one year, but um great experience.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and then I came back and and uh here I am.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_01: What year was that at Ball State?
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Those two tournament teams 16 and 17.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_00: 17.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I came here in 19.
• 1:24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Was one of them in UB?
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Was one of those games that you against uh University of Buffalo?
• 1:24:11
  SPEAKER_00: I know we played at Buffalo, but I don't know.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think I want to say one was that.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_01: I remember a wild PK shootout with UB.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if that was fifty, maybe that was 15.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_01: So high school to NAIA, head coach, yep, to ball state assistant.
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then did you go did you take some time off between ball state and here, or did you go straight to here?
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a full year, but so when I was at ball state, I ran a small club in Muncie.
• 1:24:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's called DCFC, actually.
• 1:24:46
  unknown: Really?
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Delaware, Delaware County Football Club, yeah.
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_00: They do actually they do really good things there.
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty cool.
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_00: But so I did that um while I was there.
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So then I was like, okay, well, I've been a club director, so Royal Oak needed somebody, so I came back, was doing that for a little bit, and then probably not I don't think it was quite a year, maybe it was, I don't know.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when Detroit opened up, and then it's just too much to do, to do both of them.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, did that, and uh yeah, still here, living the dream.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Have a listen, I live on the water, we have a boat, it's like the tour, you know.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, now I just gotta figure out a way for my kids to play club soccer and be able to afford it, you know.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So is most of your recruiting, do you recruit at all from high school from the high school game?
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, most of our recruiting comes from us seeing kids just around.
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or like we'll get some video.
• 1:25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, we get a lot of video, but I mean some sometimes video, or honestly, and I know people have their opinions about this, is ID camp.
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love ID camp.
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, like I will be honest, I make no money from our ID camp.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do we make some money from our ID camp?
• 1:25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and it goes into our budget because we need it, but like we don't make a crazy amount, and I don't make anything off of it.
• 1:26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And Elliot doesn't make anything off of it.
• 1:26:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, we get kids that like we have a girl from Wisconsin.
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_00: We actually have a girl on our team now from Buffalo, or maybe just there's like a little island in by the Great Grand Island?
• 1:26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have a girl from Grand Island.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Who?
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh her name's Jojo.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_00: She played at uh Kent State last year.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Jolie.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Jojo.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so like we get kids, and then I can see them in our environment, and they'll know like this is what it is, and this is who I am, and this is who Elliot is, and this is what our team looks like, and this is what we do, and this is what we believe in, and this is how we're gonna play.
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 1:26:47
  SPEAKER_00: You have to come play with other kids that might not be as good, or they might not be the kids you want to play with, or it might not be the position you want to play.
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And can you compete?
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, can you figure it out?
• 1:26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I love, I think every kid, I shouldn't say that, it's not every kid, but I would say 90% of the kids that we have on our team came to our IDQ.
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_00: How'd you find Jojo?
• 1:27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Mondu.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, transfer portal.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I'll I'll be I'll be frank with you.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I most of those duties, now that I have two kids under two, fall to Elliot.
• 1:27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So he's uh he's the transfer portal guru.
• 1:27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:27:21
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, she's she came from I think from what's Kent and uh good fit and talked to her and brought her on campus and just made sense.
• 1:27:32
  SPEAKER_01: What do you what do you want to see from players?
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like would that reach out?
• 1:27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like okay, we talked about ID camp and you guys kind of just going around and knowing the club scene around.
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_01: What about the kids that are like you have no idea who they are that reach out?
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see that they they know.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like they they know the school.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_00: They know the school.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like like what you said earlier, like, oh yeah, I'm really looking forward to.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: The teaching program at U of D.
• 1:28:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we don't have a teaching program.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think there has to be some effort.
• 1:28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't know what that is, but I mean, like come to an ID camp or something.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's just there's so many.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's tough to to go through them all.
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I I wish you know people understood that.
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_00: It is tough to get through it all.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I wish, well, first of all, if you're gonna send me an email, it's just generic, it has nothing to do with myself or Detroit Mercy.
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm probably gonna delete it.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like some other okay, like, hey, we've had girls, my mom play better, my grandpa went there.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is why I really want to come there.
• 1:28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I'll I'll come to your ID camp, like something like that.
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think that shows effort.
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, and I think it makes sense.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of these kids are going to like every single ID camp in like schools they're probably not gonna go to.
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, if they come to mine, I think they want to come here.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_00: They have some interest in coming here.
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're not getting, we're getting like at max 50 kids.
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just huge, elaborate thing.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna know you, we're gonna know your name.
• 1:29:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just gonna be, you know, a number on the sheet.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you know that that really makes sense.
• 1:29:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, if you're the right fit, we'll find.
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Abby Lidato was an all-conference player for four years.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_00: She played at Royal Oak.
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:29:25
  SPEAKER_00: She played basketball, like she was fantastic.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think she was a freshman of the year in our conference.
• 1:29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, in my opinion, she was one of the top two midfielders every year.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she was from Royal Oak and she played basketball.
• 1:29:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if that is not an indictment on our system, if she can do it, right?
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't others do it?
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And they're chasing all these clubs and she stayed at Royal Oak.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know her when you were the DOC there?
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't.
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't actually know her.
• 1:29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I knew Mark Whitcomb.
• 1:30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just from just from soccer, but he also worked, he also coached for me there too, and he was on me all the time.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, Elliot, I think, saw her play, and Elliot's like, You need to sign her right now.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Okay, I need to see her play.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, Okay, you're right.
• 1:30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I called Mark and he was like, I told you.
• 1:30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I told you three years later.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I'm busy.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so yeah.
• 1:30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Where's Mark now?
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is Mark with Jags?
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's with Jags somewhere.
• 1:30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I only see these people like Alex and Mark through uh vicariously through social media, just follow along.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's I'm usually at home with the kids, so that's my life.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that's why I I say this in like every episode, but this is one of the reasons why I came home because everybody knows everybody.
• 1:30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't I didn't know you before I left, but like once you got the job, I'm like, oh okay, I know, you know, 2019 and whatnot.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I mean, I say this all the time.
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_00: It would how hard would it be to coach a Michigan school without being from Michigan?
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's gotta be, and I okay, there's certainly like, you know, I I know that Dave isn't from Michigan, but like he's basically from Michigan and Lewis is basically from Michigan.
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean there's Lee, there's Jeff, there's Nate, is that at Notre Dame?
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Deanni.
• 1:31:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's but on top of that, we all know all of these people.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_00: We've been around them for so long.
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that, you know, somebody's gonna give me a player over somebody else, but it helps if you've known that coach or that DOC for 25 years and have that relationship, they might be more inclined to send them your way or think about you in some instead of somebody else.
• 1:31:49
  SPEAKER_01: So or be honest with you and say, you don't want you don't want to touch that kid, or I think Michigan soccer is uh crazy place.
• 1:31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 1:31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for doing this.
• 1:31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no problem.
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_01: What do you have coming up?
• 1:32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Any ID camps that you want to uh shout out?
• 1:32:05
  SPEAKER_00: We always have an ID camp.
• 1:32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I don't know when it's at, um, but it's always like right before preseason.
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_00: But with the season moving forward, we're trying to figure that out because it's just it's always so tough because you're in season and then like Michigan, like can they do it now when they're in high school?
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if they changed that rule, but you're trying to get Ohio kids and Michigan kids.
• 1:32:27
  SPEAKER_00: I play high school different seasons and all that.
• 1:32:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we just do we do like a Nike kids camp in the in July, and then we do an ID camp, and then we try to be done with that.
• 1:32:38
  SPEAKER_00: But we're we're trying to get kids that really want to come here to ID camp.
• 1:32:41
  SPEAKER_00: I just we're not we're not making money, like we're not right.
• 1:32:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, again, we're making a little bit of money, it's going back into our program.
• 1:32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not I'm not jacking it up like hey, we Elliot, get it, get me 200 kids because we need to we need to buy something, you know, like it's just we just want kids that want to play and are interested in UD coming.
• 1:33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like sometimes they get a bad rap of like, well, it's they're not really looking at your kid, they're just trying to make money, and and that's it's some probably, but it's not us.
• 1:33:12
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's really it for us.
• 1:33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I don't know.
• 1:33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be running the rat race of club for the next couple months here, and then I'll take two weeks off, and then we've got regional camp for ODP.
• 1:33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And how is the OD how is the ODP?
• 1:33:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're on the girls' side, obviously.
• 1:33:28
  SPEAKER_01: How is it?
• 1:33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I work for it, so what do you want me to do?
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is not the same as it used to be.
• 1:33:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I say this about the ODP program.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is a great avenue for maybe kids that live more rural or clubs that won't get to be seen to come and have that experience.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of why I do it as a Division I coach.
• 1:33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can still provide some value and help those kids, you know, who maybe don't play GA or ECNL or just live too far away from it to have access, yep, some you know, college guidance.
• 1:34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think if you make it to regional camp, there's you know, this again, there's people like me, but there's more you know, competition and more.
• 1:34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a good avenue for that kind of stuff.
• 1:34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um is the girls still in uh is it was it the cob or was it Rockford?
• 1:34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Rockford was the boys.
• 1:34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Rockford's the girls now, too.
• 1:34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Saginaw, right?
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is before my time.
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's in ever since I was always on the boys' side.
• 1:34:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's been Rockford.
• 1:34:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was always on the boys' side and it was Rockford and it was nice, and we were put up in the hotel, and then we'd hear nightmares about the girls' regional camp because they were in dorms that had like no air conditioning yet.
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd said I thought it was at Saginaw Valley University.
• 1:34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, maybe that's it.
• 1:34:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I I don't know, it's at it's at Rockford now.
• 1:34:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're in the hotel, and yeah, yeah, it's it's a cool time, so that's that.
• 1:34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, we'll jump right into uh college season.
• 1:34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever, whenever somebody reaches out and is like, should I do ODP?
• 1:35:02
  SPEAKER_01: I always say it's not what it was, like you just said, but yes, do it because it gets you out of your comfort zone, it gets you seen by other coaches that you might not otherwise be, you know, be seen by, and you get to play with some kids that you might be like, wow, this is this is a whole other level that I'm not even aware of.
• 1:35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that and I don't want to get into a tangent, but we yeah, it what you make of it, it is what it is.
• 1:35:29
  SPEAKER_00: But like we just went to France, so I just went to Paris.
• 1:35:33
  SPEAKER_00: We took a boys and a girls team, and okay, some of it was soccer tourism, but it was fun.
• 1:35:40
  SPEAKER_00: But those boys, which some played on high high-level teams, we played a team and we killed them, and we played a team that was pretty even, and then we played a team and we lost like 12-0.
• 1:35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Those kids, those on this French team, they were at an age where they were about to leave home and go to their academies full-time.
• 1:36:00
  SPEAKER_00: They they were pros at like this was like 14.
• 1:36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of the the coaches was like, This is my son, like obviously I'm there's translation and whatever, but he's basically like he's in two months, he's about to go.
• 1:36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because in France you can go at this age and he's about to go, or he's already signed a contract.
• 1:36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's for those kids to see that guy's a pro.
• 1:36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like that guy's like there's levels to this, even over there.
• 1:36:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's levels.
• 1:36:26
  SPEAKER_00: His whole life is soccer.
• 1:36:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's going to live, he's getting paid by this club.
• 1:36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is his life.
• 1:36:33
  SPEAKER_00: That and those kids at 14-15, they were good.
• 1:36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't even know how to describe to you.
• 1:36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it was that was real.
• 1:36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you took an MLS next team, and I will say, I have no idea about the boys' program.
• 1:36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what an MLS next team looks like.
• 1:36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:36:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you took it over and played that team, I can assure you it wouldn't be close.
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because those kids were like the best I've seen.
• 1:37:01
  SPEAKER_01: How was the girls over there?
• 1:37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I so I was there, I didn't really um work with the girls just the way it worked.
• 1:37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Todd and Ryan Hasler were with the girls, and I kind of took one for the team and I went with the boys for the the week, which was good.
• 1:37:18
  SPEAKER_00: I coach generally I coach boys in in club or have in the past.
• 1:37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like this year I don't, and I took a year off before, but in the past I've coached boys just because it's you know spring.
• 1:37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I haven't done it in a little while, so it was it was good to get back into it and see.
• 1:37:35
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it was good for those kids who play at a pretty high level here.
• 1:37:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying all of them, but some of them, to see that.
• 1:37:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, whoa, how do we produce those kids?
• 1:37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:37:47
  SPEAKER_00: But born into it.
• 1:37:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't see.
• 1:37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's true.
• 1:37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't we don't want to.
• 1:37:55
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to.
• 1:37:56
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, if we really wanted to do what they did, and that was our only goal, I we could do it.
• 1:38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that.
• 1:38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it has anything to do with they're born into this culture and this, that, and the other.
• 1:38:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's what we put out, what our expectations are.
• 1:38:14
  SPEAKER_00: What I mean, I I think that we could replicate that.
• 1:38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 1:38:20
  SPEAKER_00: But there needs to be an avenue where kids know that if I develop in this club, then I can get paid to go play here and then you know, MLS, but it'll never happen because MLS is a closed system, right?
• 1:38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Could we work out a way where we can sell kids to other clubs, or can we sell?
• 1:38:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's like visa rules and stuff, like there's gotta be some sort of solution.
• 1:38:45
  SPEAKER_00: But and but what what academy really has a vested interest in developing kids?
• 1:38:51
  SPEAKER_01: What is the what is the ROI to get more kids?
• 1:38:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, basically that's it.
• 1:38:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's an Instagram post, like I said with Alex.
• 1:38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:39:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's you get an Instagram post of saying that we sent this kid to North Carolina, come come train with us, and or come play with us, and maybe you get to go to North Carolina.
• 1:39:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that well, that's not true at all.
• 1:39:12
  SPEAKER_00: But like in a perfect world, if I could train, like if I could play here in a club, and then I knew, I don't know, Columbus crew could come pay me, right?
• 1:39:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then like a significant amount.
• 1:39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:39:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then I could keep developing and be sold to like I just feel like we can't really do that right now.
• 1:39:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, right?
• 1:39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like child like I guess child labor laws.
• 1:39:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not an English, you know, I I don't know the system.
• 1:39:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm thinking, like, if you're a youth kid in a club playing, you're gonna work your butt off, and then maybe somebody from a club is there and gonna watch you and gonna bring you to the club and gonna develop you, and then you can okay, that's how you're drink like there is a dream for those kids.
• 1:40:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that anybody here maybe I'm wrong.
• 1:40:05
  SPEAKER_00: This this could be to me sweet.
• 1:40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think they really like?
• 1:40:08
  SPEAKER_00: I hope one day I play in the MLS.
• 1:40:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, because we're so far removed.
• 1:40:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like what's what was the closest club that we like grew up near?
• 1:40:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's three hours away.
• 1:40:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's in Columbus, it's called Columbus Crew, yeah.
• 1:40:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we didn't even really like grow up around it, you know what I mean?
• 1:40:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a whole other world.
• 1:40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Caleb Stenko, another Michigan kid, he was sent over.
• 1:40:33
  SPEAKER_01: He played for Varter, but the Wolves were when they had their Darby County partnership, they allowed Caleb to go with one of their teams.
• 1:40:41
  SPEAKER_01: And first of all, Darby County was like, the only kid that can hang is is Caleb.
• 1:40:46
  SPEAKER_01: And two, Caleb, when he came back, he was telling like Dave Hicklin or somebody, or maybe Morris.
• 1:40:52
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, every kid over there wanted to be a pro.
• 1:40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, every single kid from top to bottom.
• 1:41:00
  SPEAKER_01: There was like, and he was like, on my team, half of us want to play college, half of us don't.
• 1:41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:41:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like the difference that nobody under really understands.
• 1:41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:41:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the difference over there versus here.
• 1:41:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think there's really anything to aspire to like there is over there.
• 1:41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Except college.
• 1:41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, college.
• 1:41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there's a lot of people who say I want to play in college, but I don't think you'd I don't think there's a lot of people that are like, I want to be in the MLS when I grow up.
• 1:41:26
  SPEAKER_00: They might be, I want to be a professional soccer player in Europe or something.
• 1:41:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that I tr I don't know, maybe I'm just being naive, but I think if the MLS had to compete and sell players and develop players, and like there was just an open market, which it isn't, no, as far as I'm concerned, right?
• 1:41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's all I've been told is like it isn't.
• 1:41:51
  SPEAKER_00: And now you have to compete to develop players, and and hey, maybe there's a world where we can work something out where you can go play in Europe when you're 17.
• 1:41:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't.
• 1:42:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I don't know.
• 1:42:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the politics or the laws of it that that well, but like in that world, if you could aspire aspire to play in the MLS, like, oh, I really want to like go play for I don't know, the Columbus Group or Miami FC or whatever.
• 1:42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think that it would change the perception of kids in club, right?
• 1:42:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think they would aspire to that.
• 1:42:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, maybe I'm being naive, but I think in in England there are the clubs, and they go to that and they see that, and so that's where they want to go.
• 1:42:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I it's it's probably similar to like college football.
• 1:42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're a football guy, like I go to the University of Michigan, you see this huge crowd, there's all this.
• 1:42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do that, or you like see the Lions, like, oh yeah, I want to do that.
• 1:42:49
  SPEAKER_00: We don't really have that in soccer.
• 1:42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you a couple things?
• 1:42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever get worried about other sports?
• 1:42:57
  SPEAKER_01: And like, because okay, I spent 11 years in Buffalo.
• 1:43:01
  SPEAKER_01: The number one thing on everybody's mind in Buffalo is the Buffalo Bills, even the girls they care so much, and then all of a sudden, flag football came around, and girls' flag football came around.
• 1:43:15
  SPEAKER_01: All the top girls, soccer, they didn't quit soccer, they still played soccer, but now they're also playing club flag football.
• 1:43:24
  SPEAKER_01: One of my best players, she's 2010, she's playing club flag football.
• 1:43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Are you worried about like any?
• 1:43:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that might be better for them because they're born into it.
• 1:43:35
  SPEAKER_01: They watch Josh Allen, they watch more Bill's stuff than they do women's soccer.
• 1:43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not all of them, but who's to say it's not better?
• 1:43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're more aggressive, maybe they learn skills that we can't teach in soccer.
• 1:43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they, you know what I mean?
• 1:43:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying I don't know that playing year-round soccer is the right answer for us right now.
• 1:43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm wrong.
• 1:43:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just think there's a lot of burnout, I think there's a lot of fatigue, I think there's a lot of uh, you know, there's a lot of athleticism and other skills that you know I think other sports help you teach.
• 1:44:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that aren't developed in soccer, like the boxing out, like you were talking about, right?
• 1:44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like defend set pieces, play basketball, and learn how to block out.
• 1:44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's an aggressive component that you know that'll teach.
• 1:44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe there's leadership.
• 1:44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:44:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying, like, I'm not willing to I'm not worried, and I'm not willing to discount that playing other sports wouldn't be a better thing than what we're doing now.
• 1:44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you know?
• 1:44:36
  SPEAKER_01: I had a power four girl say, if I had the same amount of money to play flag over soccer, I would play flag.
• 1:44:44
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it's like, how do you know that you love soccer if you don't pick up a basketball, if you don't play something else?
• 1:44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:44:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that helps.
• 1:44:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you said you said it at the beginning.
• 1:44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Are we better than where we were 20 years ago?
• 1:44:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of the piece, is that why did we choose soccer as our career?
• 1:45:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's because we ended up loving soccer more than the other sports.
• 1:45:09
  SPEAKER_01: These kids, it's almost like you're pit, you're you're supposed to pick at nine years old, and it's like I'm burnt out by the time I'm 13.
• 1:45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't I played hockey and tennis and golf and basketball.
• 1:45:21
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think about soccer in the winter, right?
• 1:45:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I was still I considered myself a pretty good player, you know what I mean?
• 1:45:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that was most kids I knew.
• 1:45:31
  SPEAKER_00: So again, is that right?
• 1:45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the way to best develop players?
• 1:45:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I don't know.
• 1:45:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that.
• 1:45:40
  SPEAKER_00: What I am saying is why don't we question everything we're doing and figure out a better way?
• 1:45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or figure out a way that we can make it cheaper.
• 1:45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't we train in gyms?
• 1:45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the answer I usually get is so the parents will see this club training at that field and do this.
• 1:45:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, let's just be better and let's just do it, right?
• 1:46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who cares?
• 1:46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you you can't tell me that if I got one sixteenth of an 11 v11 field, I couldn't do the same thing in a gym.
• 1:46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Guess where we train in the winter at the University of Detroit?
• 1:46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Callahan.
• 1:46:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, the rec center.
• 1:46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, there's a rec center now?
• 1:46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's two gyms next door to each other.
• 1:46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 1:46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we used to do it just in the Callahan basketball court.
• 1:46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like we go outside when we can, but of course now, we're in the gym.
• 1:46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 1:46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't you?
• 1:46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I had this conversation the other day.
• 1:46:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think we developed better technically on a gym floor because especially before the days of the heavy futsal ball, we could use a normal soccer ball on the gym floor.
• 1:46:44
  SPEAKER_01: You can't hide.
• 1:46:45
  SPEAKER_01: You better have a you better have a real good touch.
• 1:46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Same with the boarded game.
• 1:46:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can't hide.
• 1:46:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're you can't fake technique in that type of game.
• 1:46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:46:56
  SPEAKER_00: But all those things I'm just like, you know, I don't have the answers, but why why don't we question it?
• 1:47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's gotten to a point where I think it's gotten to a point where it's crazy, but it's gotten to a point of does your kid either play rec or do they pay a lot of money?
• 1:47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, isn't there some in between?
• 1:47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think the gap has grown, right?
• 1:47:15
  SPEAKER_00: I know that there are clubs in between.
• 1:47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think at DCFC Downriver we do a good job of our price structure and what we give, but like again, it's it's the gap is so big, and and like yeah, part of it is is it's hard if you're a club that doesn't have GA or doesn't have ECNL.
• 1:47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like your kids are inevitably gonna leave when they get older if they're good enough, right?
• 1:47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:47:38
  SPEAKER_00: But why do you have to be those guys?
• 1:47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I still don't understand.
• 1:47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Why why can't we train in gyms?
• 1:47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't we, you know, there's more of these little you know, warehouses with turf coming up.
• 1:47:51
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 1:47:51
  SPEAKER_00: What like what else can we do to make this where people can afford it and that we can bring kids in?
• 1:48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's there's gotta be a way.
• 1:48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and with the closed system at the top, I feel like we only care about the top.
• 1:48:09
  SPEAKER_01: We only care about the top 1%.
• 1:48:11
  unknown: Right.
• 1:48:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like what like Tom Byer, who is big in Japan and really started, really turned their whole system around, he's always talking about what's the gap between the top and the bottom.
• 1:48:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's huge, you're gonna be a very average country, which we are 100%.
• 1:48:30
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we only care about the one top 1%, and then our gap is just gigantic, and we can't close this as long as that's closed at the top, right?
• 1:48:43
  SPEAKER_01: So frustrating.
• 1:48:44
  SPEAKER_01: God, it's why it's called I hate soccer.
• 1:48:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I love soccer, and I want to try to solve it.
• 1:48:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I said there's people like you.
• 1:48:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I said to you earlier, if there's a guy that can make his vision happen, happy, it's Luby.
• 1:48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:48:59
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I'm happy to talk and help.
• 1:49:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, I don't pretend to have any answers.
• 1:49:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just yeah, asking the question.
• 1:49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just think about it and say, like, maybe this isn't right, or maybe there's a better way.
• 1:49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or, hey, like, if if my kid was in, I understand if my kid was playing club and other kids were doing this, and uh, you know, I would ask the question, why don't we train there?
• 1:49:22
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I think we should start you know being open to like there's different ways to do it, it might be better.
• 1:49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, hopefully that helps something, but uh, you know, I don't have the energy to to to take on the world like Luby.
• 1:49:37
  SPEAKER_00: So here I am talking to you.
• 1:49:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, dude, the messages I got about his uh episode was like that guy's a psychopath, and I love it.
• 1:49:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, he is psychopath.
• 1:49:47
  SPEAKER_00: But guess what?
• 1:49:48
  SPEAKER_00: The things that he says, everybody's true.
• 1:49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's saying it already.
• 1:49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:49:52
  SPEAKER_00: But guess what?
• 1:49:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I get it because I work in club soccer too, but most people either make a living off of this or That's what we've always done.
• 1:50:01
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just keep going.
• 1:50:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I get it.
• 1:50:04
  SPEAKER_00: But okay, let's disrupt the system.
• 1:50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody says it.
• 1:50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Everything he said, everybody's saying.
• 1:50:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can assure you of that.
• 1:50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Privately, everybody's saying it.
• 1:50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, do you have like a recruiting like form still?
• 1:50:23
  SPEAKER_01: That you guys used to have like the recruiting questionnaires and stuff available.
• 1:50:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:50:30
  SPEAKER_01: And your emails on your, I'm not gonna announce it here.
• 1:50:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, you could email Elliot.
• 1:50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Email Elliot.
• 1:50:35
  SPEAKER_01: What's Elliot's email?
• 1:50:37
  SPEAKER_01: Elliot at udmmercy.edu.
• 1:50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my thing, truthfully, right?
• 1:50:43
  SPEAKER_00: The amount of people, it's this is a pet peeve of mine, it drives me crazy.
• 1:50:47
  SPEAKER_00: My players, specifically, the amount of times they text me and say, can you give me that email address?
• 1:50:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, just go on the website and look.
• 1:50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you can't do that, then then you can't play here because you need to be able to just go on a website and look at the email.
• 1:51:04
  SPEAKER_00: So Elliot Tarney, I don't know what it is.
• 1:51:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like eTarny at UDM, UD Mercy.
• 1:51:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's on the website.
• 1:51:11
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that, but it's on the website.
• 1:51:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you email me, I'm gonna forward it to Elliot, and then he's gonna narrow it down and then send it back to me, and I'm gonna tell him yes or no.
• 1:51:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's how that works.
• 1:51:23
  SPEAKER_00: How many emails do you guys get?
• 1:51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Are you like just from UDM?
• 1:51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is that yeah, just from just for UDM about from players.
• 1:51:33
  SPEAKER_01: From from players that want to send you a highlight tape or something.
• 1:51:36
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't even count.
• 1:51:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't even I can't imagine.
• 1:51:40
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't even I mean my inbox is just I mean it it's taken me a long time to be able to process that like this is just my life.
• 1:51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's that's just gonna my my inbox is never gonna be something that's empty?
• 1:51:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not even not empty, it's small.
• 1:51:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I could scroll for days and it's just hard.
• 1:51:59
  SPEAKER_00: And get and honestly, this is why I also say to people, sometimes it's just about timing.
• 1:52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I get people that email me like the day before a game, and then I forget about it because I'm so focused on the game, and I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna get back to it.
• 1:52:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a human, sorry.
• 1:52:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then I you know, two days later, when I was gonna get to it, I have 750 more emails, and I'm like, that was probably something I should have responded to, but I didn't.
• 1:52:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes it's not that I'm ignoring you, sometimes it's just time.
• 1:52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, maybe if I have a a week off, that would be a good time, or you know, maybe also shoot me a text or make sure you email all of our coaches or try again, or do it again.
• 1:52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I that's what I've been telling a lot of my people.
• 1:52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like usually I'm not it's not that I'm like just discarding that.
• 1:52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's just simply like it got lost in the shuffle.
• 1:52:54
  SPEAKER_01: When somebody emails me a follow-up, I think that's the first thing I do is like thank you so much for following up because I wanted to get back to you, but then something else happened, or I had to go here, or I had to go there, and I'm not putting you off, but like it just got lost in the shuffle, and then thank you so much.
• 1:53:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I would I tell that to players, like, do it again and do it again.
• 1:53:18
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, man, thank you so much.
• 1:53:22
  SPEAKER_01: No worries.
• 1:53:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love talking to you guys, and just I'm learning so much about like just the college game that I just I didn't know, and that's why I'm doing this podcast because I'm as curious as the people that are listening, maybe less, maybe more.
• 1:53:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Come come back during preseason.
• 1:53:39
  SPEAKER_00: You got a real glimpse of what it's like now.
• 1:53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'll have Elliot on.
• 1:53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, yeah, no, you should.
• 1:53:46
  SPEAKER_00: You should absolutely do that.
• 1:53:48
  SPEAKER_01: All right, man.
• 1:53:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right, dude, appreciate it.
• 1:53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:53:52
  SPEAKER_01: I hate soccer.
• 1:53:56
  SPEAKER_01: How long does it take your players to send out an email to a college coach?
• 1:54:02
  SPEAKER_01: How long would it take to send out a hundred?
• 1:54:04
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