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Hamster Omnibus! Dr Who & the Silurians (featuring Toby Hadoke) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:39
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blumpkin knife the Doctor Who
• 0:43
  commentary podcast. Toby Mr. Toby.
• 0:47
  Hey. Hello.
• 0:49
  Hello, Joe. Nice to see how are you?
• 0:52
  I'm actually today. I'm standing on windley Moore.
• 0:57
  Oh and that seems to be an irritating noise something a bit
• 1:01
  like a kazoo in the background. Well, I think I know how to do
• 1:08
  this Joe. I think I'm learning to speak
• 1:09
  English. Are you telling me that you and
• 1:11
  a friend have polished your helmets anticipation of going
• 1:15
  into a wet? Dark Cavern?
• 1:19
  Briefly, yes good. They see that's on you.
• 1:24
  I could do this a lot of evenings in that way.
• 1:26
  You know, what have I done to you?
• 1:29
  Oh, no. I'm doing this to everybody now
• 1:31
  erupted. Fraser Gregory just Summoners
• 1:36
  both the stop it, you know. Hello.
• 1:41
  How you doing today? I'm all right.
• 1:45
  Thanks. Yeah.
• 1:45
  Yeah, I'm all right. Yeah, I'm looking forward to
• 1:47
  seeing this. I'm a bit bushwhacked.
• 1:49
  I'm trying to write this this crazy Mass book.
• 1:52
  I've essentially taking februari off in order to just write from
• 1:56
  morning till sort of afternoon because I get a bit tired and
• 2:00
  then I'll be podcast to do something else in the evening,
• 2:02
  but I I'm getting old. I think Joe.
• 2:06
  I think my concentration is not what it was and if you're a
• 2:10
  doctor who fan you'll never get old.
• 2:13
  Oh, no, I don't know. It's certainly not this the
• 2:17
  chapter. I'm working on at the moment.
• 2:19
  I I'm kind of set myself, you know two days to polish off and
• 2:23
  I'm still doing it and we're you know, we're nearly two weeks
• 2:26
  into februari so it's gonna be a long februari.
• 2:29
  But if I even if I don't get done as much, so I wanted to get
• 2:34
  done if I can continue doing what I'm doing.
• 2:36
  By the end of februari I will have got more done than I had
• 2:39
  done at the beginning of februari but we're looking to
• 2:42
  push it in sort of May or June because creative mass is 70 in
• 2:46
  July. And so so I really do need to
• 2:48
  stop thinking about it and and and and do it but it's um, it's
• 2:53
  a bit of a grind, you know, it's not like writing fiction like
• 2:56
  writing jokes where you can sort of, you know freeform and have
• 2:59
  fun, you know this I have to get dates right?
• 3:01
  I have to find bits of information.
• 3:04
  I have to put them all together so that they go here and it's
• 3:07
  um, yeah, it's a long old haul so I hope some people buy it.
• 3:13
  Well, I know I will offer the education that you gave me on my
• 3:17
  hamster episode about quite Mass.
• 3:19
  I'm looking forward to learning about it even more detail and I
• 3:24
  saw some feedback of some people when you put the link up to the
• 3:28
  YouTube video. People are hungry for this on
• 3:31
  there. Some people are Well, I I hope
• 3:35
  so. I hope so.
• 3:36
  I think it's worth the being a good book out there and I hope
• 3:40
  the book I'm writing is is good. But I do I do tend to disappear
• 3:46
  down rabbit holes Joe. So so where some people You know
• 3:51
  might to do an actor's biog just nip onto IMDb and do a select
• 3:56
  five or six credits. I I've gone into currently I'm
• 4:00
  gone into a bit more detail than that also on every single actor
• 4:04
  that's credited in Creative mass.
• 4:07
  Now. It may be that my editor looks
• 4:09
  at those bits and goes we don't need to know about the man who
• 4:11
  played Tipsy man in episode 1 of the creative ass experiment.
• 4:16
  Well, I I do deserves a right so he did the time, okay.
• 4:24
  Yeah. So we'll see.
• 4:26
  We'll see how much of that. Stays it's certainly not going
• 4:30
  to underrun in terms of word count.
• 4:33
  But you know you have to one has to one has to surrender to one's
• 4:37
  editor and if you know if I know what I would like to read.
• 4:43
  But I also know that that I perhaps have quite bespoke
• 4:47
  tastes and that most people don't have need to.
• 4:52
  To go into as much detail. And also I think I do the
• 4:55
  narcissist thing of I sort of show my working.
• 4:57
  So instead of just going on on this day.
• 5:00
  This happened. I've sort of been going and on
• 5:02
  this day and this piece of paperwork says it looks like
• 5:04
  this happened, but actually I've dug a little bit further and
• 5:07
  that didn't happen and then and so then I sort of come to the
• 5:10
  conclusion now, it may be less less less less vanity is
• 5:13
  required to just go on this day this happens, but then there's a
• 5:16
  part of me that knows goes. But if I do that somebody on
• 5:18
  Twitter or then go. Oh, yeah, but what about what it
• 5:21
  says on this bit of paperwork I said, well, yeah that's wrong
• 5:24
  because I'm sort of I'm heading off imaginary Twitter criticism,
• 5:28
  which is not a way to live. There's no way to live Joe.
• 5:31
  You can't live thinking I better not say that in case some wanker
• 5:34
  on Twitter. I think you'll find me.
• 5:37
  I don't like you're pretty I'm filters as well and your podcast
• 5:40
  was I really really loved all that you say that you should say
• 5:44
  like what the hell was going to be the backlash on this, you
• 5:47
  know, I think you might have made a bunch of yourself because
• 5:49
  everybody a master Circle I was at the party so that I have to
• 5:53
  listen to a second. So I'll do apologize.
• 5:55
  I know you're very British and you don't like a compliment but
• 5:57
  I was in the pub and we was talking about your too much
• 6:00
  information and the people just can't get enough of the detail,
• 6:04
  you know, so I think you might find for yourself.
• 6:07
  And now the expectation is this book's coming out its kind of be
• 6:11
  a lot better A lot of people gonna be disappointed.
• 6:15
  Oh good. Well, that's okay at the end of
• 6:17
  the day. I tend to think that the thing
• 6:19
  to do. And this is a comedian strict
• 6:23
  actually and and and all Comics go through this where they often
• 6:28
  make the mistake of doing what they think the audience what
• 6:31
  they think the audience wants from them.
• 6:33
  So I would I would sort of often go on and and pretend not to be
• 6:37
  as middle class as I am and I try to be a bit sort of more
• 6:40
  Rough and Tumble and try and sort of course on myself up a
• 6:43
  bit because I think all though and actually I became a much
• 6:45
  better comedian when if anything I was honest or actually if
• 6:50
  anything I I exactly exaggerated those things that I thought
• 6:54
  people wouldn't like I actually made a virtual of them rather
• 6:57
  than tried to to hide them and with the with the Doctor Who
• 7:01
  certainly with moths, you know, and Actually not hiding behind
• 7:05
  anything and just doing at the end of the day doing what I
• 7:08
  thought I would like and you sort of go and so now I kind of
• 7:11
  go. Well, I'll just oh, it's the
• 7:13
  same with the documentaries. I I wanted to find out what
• 7:16
  happened to Peter R Newman. So I managed to get a budget in
• 7:19
  which to do that. So now I just make the programs
• 7:22
  or the podcasts and that's the beauty of podcast because it's
• 7:26
  such a crowded Market. I hate that word that you just
• 7:29
  you go. Well, it doesn't matter if some
• 7:31
  people who want a doctor who podcast don't want what I do
• 7:34
  because they'll be catered for somewhere else.
• 7:36
  All I can do is what I do and what I like and if people do
• 7:39
  like it, that's lovely and if they don't well, they're catered
• 7:42
  For brilliantly by other people who do different things and
• 7:45
  that's that's all well and good. That's the lovely Democratic
• 7:48
  nature of of podcasting but it's all so an indicator to just to
• 7:53
  do what you do and and try not to worry about it all though as
• 7:58
  I know because we have little private conversations on
• 8:00
  Facebook. So not worrying is not something
• 8:02
  that comes. easy Well mind you say I promise you guys we will
• 8:09
  start talking about Doctrine asylums in a minute.
• 8:11
  But you know this happens when you and I get together.
• 8:13
  I still think one of the most extraordinary podcasts you put
• 8:18
  out was the one of our alcohol in Doctor Who yeah, and I was
• 8:24
  braced myself. So listen to that and then when
• 8:27
  I finished I thought it was extraordinarily moving and
• 8:30
  really funny and that's a hard line to kind of trade but it was
• 8:36
  the I want the vulnerability in it.
• 8:39
  That was so interesting and I don't think a lot of people
• 8:42
  would go there. I I worry about it because I do
• 8:46
  all so slightly mistrust this world.
• 8:49
  We live in where we share everything and we all know it
• 8:54
  expect everybody to cater for our vulnerabilities.
• 8:57
  Do you know what I mean? I I I worry about going down
• 9:00
  that Hill because I sometimes see that you know, the
• 9:04
  vulnerable can turn into the dictator then and go well if you
• 9:06
  don't, you know, if you You know, if if you're not cognizant
• 9:12
  of my my needs your your pressing me or whatever and I
• 9:18
  and I I do sometimes worry about because share booze is a funny
• 9:24
  one. Alcohol is a is a funny one
• 9:26
  because it's it's It's a concurrent process of going this
• 9:31
  has to be all about me. It's the only way I can sort it
• 9:34
  out. But also I'm spectacularly
• 9:37
  unimportant and I need to get over myself and those two things
• 9:40
  seem like a contradiction because you're one hand going I
• 9:44
  need to totally sort of self-care and on the other hand
• 9:47
  you're going I need to stop worrying about myself and think
• 9:51
  about the world and the fact that I'm not a very important
• 9:53
  part of it and then you realize not to worry so much about
• 9:56
  yourself. And and so doing doing a podcast
• 10:00
  about being a loser and tying it in with Doctor Who I've tried to
• 10:05
  do it with stand up where you sort of talk about you talk
• 10:08
  about I've tried to talk about drink and it's a difficult one
• 10:13
  because it puts the audience slightly on edge because they
• 10:15
  go. Oh don't either I don't want to
• 10:17
  think about this or I'm uncomfortable with this level of
• 10:20
  honesty. And so as an exercise, I just
• 10:21
  want to see if I could make it funny it was and if I could tie
• 10:25
  in with Doctor Who because you can tie anything in with dogs
• 10:27
  too and I think the podcast is a slightly better medium for it
• 10:32
  because you're not in a room full of people going.
• 10:34
  Well this Is all good. Yeah.
• 10:36
  This is an interesting isn't there between you and The
• 10:39
  Listener as well. It's sort of a one-on-one.
• 10:44
  And I hope I hope that in well, I mean my main hope is to be
• 10:48
  entertaining and to make people laugh but I've found and this
• 10:53
  was through my state my Doctor Who scarf if I'm if I'm sort of
• 10:57
  honest about my experience. Well, people can always see
• 11:00
  through fake stuff anyway, but I don't mind.
• 11:03
  I mean, I don't mind talking about myself and sometimes
• 11:07
  people goes terribly Brave to get.
• 11:08
  Well, I'm not sure it is. It's it's people who like the
• 11:12
  sound of their voice voices and want to be center of attention
• 11:15
  quite enjoy talking about themselves.
• 11:17
  So I'm not sure I'm not sure that's my definition of brave
• 11:20
  but obviously alcohol is quite awkward one, but I just as an
• 11:24
  intellectual exercise to go. Well, I'll see if I can make
• 11:26
  that funny. I was quite yeah, that was quite
• 11:29
  I was quite that was quite fun to see how that turned out.
• 11:32
  That's that's sort of thing. I learned as well.
• 11:34
  So I didn't even sort of Punjab commentary recently and that
• 11:38
  went out two weeks before I lost my mom and long story.
• 11:44
  All I found it really really moving because it was dealing
• 11:48
  with death and you know what happens after these aliens
• 11:51
  coming in and some of it. Okay.
• 11:53
  She didn't believe in aliens coming along at the moment of
• 11:55
  death, but some fits how I didn't to some of her beliefs
• 11:59
  and so I sort of dropped all that information and I had a
• 12:03
  conversation with a podcast or a couple of days ago.
• 12:05
  We did a podcast and he said something because I'm gonna
• 12:08
  cover out don't be afraid to be vulnerable.
• 12:11
  Like don't sit there are in your dirty laundry.
• 12:13
  But like I think sometimes it's quite healthy and I love that
• 12:19
  piece. I it was funny.
• 12:22
  But you said something as well in there, which really really
• 12:24
  made me think one point you said, you know how much you
• 12:27
  loved it when you're having a drink, you know, and and to say
• 12:31
  that as a recovering that's incredible incredible.
• 12:36
  Anyway, I'm gonna take back. Yeah, well you I mean you can't
• 12:46
  lie, you know, I'd love to be able to go hi don't listen to
• 12:50
  all and I but that would be a lie.
• 12:52
  Of course I do and there's no point.
• 12:55
  You know, there's no you there's no point tonight.
• 12:58
  There's no point denying reality.
• 13:00
  I want to deny reality. I'll watch seven episodes of
• 13:03
  Doctor Who So I did that. Are you very close?
• 13:07
  Yeah, welcome. Well, okay, we'll go into
• 13:10
  episode one in a second. But I've got a quick question
• 13:12
  for you before we do and that is do you think that from The war
• 13:20
  games to spearhead from space is that the most dramatic tonal
• 13:26
  shift that Doctor Who ever had between Seasons?
• 13:31
  Well, this this thought is fresh on my mind because I have been
• 13:34
  doing the garden this afternoon and I was listening to you doing
• 13:37
  make glass and I think don't don't don't you guys bring it up
• 13:42
  or Planet? Because I've listened to you
• 13:43
  doing planet of evil and make lost today you did and you were
• 13:48
  talking about it and you talked war machines to War Games to
• 13:51
  spearhead you all so talked season 24 to 25 and you talk
• 13:56
  season 7 teen to season 80 I I think and having done running
• 14:03
  through corridors where I did actually, you know watch in
• 14:06
  order every day. To you know to get a feel of it
• 14:11
  unfolding although in a speeded up way the the most seismic
• 14:16
  change. Excuse me to me did seem to be
• 14:19
  this cosmetic changes and obviously tonal changes between
• 14:22
  17 and 18 which are which are quite huge but you still do have
• 14:27
  the same doctor and companion 24 to 25.
• 14:31
  Well, it's just like they seem to work out how to make it
• 14:34
  slightly better. Yeah.
• 14:37
  I mean that you know in terms of production good got well, I've
• 14:40
  I'm just doing remembrance for my podcast funnily enough and
• 14:43
  absolutely loving it and going gosh.
• 14:46
  This is a it is like a different program to because I've already
• 14:49
  done Dragonfire and I feel a bit sorry for dragon fire.
• 14:51
  But I I would say that some of it is is today barely
• 14:54
  transmissible. Whereas remember it's actually
• 14:57
  holds up extremely well, and I think just because it's black
• 15:01
  and white to color just because spearhead is all on film just
• 15:05
  because it's complete change of personnel.
• 15:07
  I think it has to be I think all games to spearhead is an
• 15:10
  extraordinary change its and of course, there's no story quite
• 15:15
  like spearhead although You know the production values of the
• 15:20
  subsequent three are still quite strong because they're all seven
• 15:22
  parties and they've amortized the budget in a clever way and
• 15:24
  there's still quite a lot of film even though they're not all
• 15:26
  on film and they've got that sort of gritty as far as Doctor
• 15:31
  Who is concerned flavor that then goes away for the lets and
• 15:35
  dicks era which comes a bit more matey and chummy and and design
• 15:40
  key but but yeah, but thank you. I just kind of just yeah, I
• 15:48
  mean, you know joke around and the doctor they have quite a bit
• 15:51
  like he Sort of dynamic between them and I think running through
• 15:59
  corridors, you know, the it was like watching Tara of the Autumn
• 16:02
  was like smaller and down like a whole lot of skills in one go.
• 16:06
  See you this at that. I think Rob might say oh, yeah.
• 16:14
  Yeah after it certainly after Inferno but no war games to to
• 16:19
  spearhead is a huge change and it's a very smart revivification
• 16:24
  of the show and I love season 7, although I acknowledge that not
• 16:28
  all Doctor Who Could Be Like season 7 much in the same way as
• 16:31
  I love the caves as Avengers Arnie, although I acknowledge
• 16:34
  that. Not all Doctor Who can be like
• 16:37
  the caves of Andrew Zanny. Oh funny moment.
• 16:40
  A lot of what I love about Doctor Who is that?
• 16:42
  It's a story that exists in the great Mosaic of Doctor Who that
• 16:45
  is almost atypical and you go but it's only because of the
• 16:48
  broad canvas of Doctor Who that this story can exist and
• 16:51
  therefore, I love it more than I might love a more typical doctor
• 16:55
  story. But then what is a typical
• 16:57
  Doctor Who story? I'm still not sure I know.
• 17:00
  I think there are there are moments of humor in series 78.
• 17:05
  It does feel like the most serious season of Doctor Who and
• 17:09
  and in many ways the most adults season because it's sort of
• 17:13
  mature storytelling. It's Adult ideas, I think even
• 17:18
  the link for these seven partners and and how much time
• 17:21
  they have to sort of delve into the characters and things like
• 17:24
  that. The father is sale of like it's
• 17:27
  just nothing else quite like it is in the rum.
• 17:31
  Here and I sometimes wonder if because I think Doctor Who means
• 17:35
  so many things to so many different people and the stories
• 17:38
  that we like have so many different contexts to what why
• 17:43
  we like them or why we might not or why they're special to us and
• 17:46
  why they're not and it can be that could be so individual, you
• 17:50
  know, you know, we might have all come from the same store to
• 17:54
  the same story one when we were a kid one when it was on super
• 17:58
  Channel another when it was on VHS another went now and it was
• 18:02
  on Blu-ray and you know that different points in our lives
• 18:05
  and all of that and I I think because I lived in the shadow of
• 18:09
  the cancellation and because I am the youngest of four and my
• 18:14
  elder brother said like Doctor Who but had put away childish
• 18:16
  things. There was very much a desire in
• 18:19
  me for Doctor Who to be taken seriously and to not be a
• 18:22
  Children's Program because I was the youngest I didn't want to be
• 18:24
  seen as a kid the the Hiatus meant the Doctor Who was not
• 18:30
  liked by the Echelons of the BBC.
• 18:32
  So I wanted it to be good and people to take it seriously as
• 18:36
  that went on, you know, it was less loved by the general
• 18:38
  public. So I always watched octo
• 18:41
  thinking well, but if the general public in inverted
• 18:43
  commas watch this, they'd like it they'd say that it was good.
• 18:45
  So I wanted no sort of little dips in production value or no
• 18:49
  bit that might jar to a modern audience because I would
• 18:51
  fantasize about you know, everyone suddenly walking in
• 18:54
  when I was watching a doctor and go.
• 18:55
  Oh Toby you're right. It is good after all and then
• 18:58
  the world would be a better place and Doctor Who would be
• 19:01
  loved. So the more serious and the more
• 19:02
  grown up in inverted commas like season 7 like the Hinchcliffe
• 19:06
  and Holmes zero are the ones that I seem to be forgiving most
• 19:11
  of because they're the ones I think that maybe fulfilled those
• 19:15
  criteria for me the same would not be disappointed with this
• 19:19
  season with those criter. We just said there about being
• 19:22
  scared about people walking in there was on one of us should
• 19:27
  tell you the story all the moment because it's such an
• 19:29
  agonizing moment now, At for adult eyes, but I had this bit I
• 19:33
  just was desperate for someone's walking and say just to say just
• 19:36
  how amazing doctor who is and I used to rewind this bit and wait
• 19:40
  for my mother to walk in the room.
• 19:41
  I should see him. She'll see it shall absolutely
• 19:44
  loved it. It was in Survival episode 3.
• 19:46
  I'm not gonna tell you what the beer is but it's a terrible
• 19:52
  moment. Now, it's very not gonna tell me
• 19:53
  which It's the bit where ice is carrying whether you know, what
• 19:57
  all the supposedly athletic looking sort of gymnasts our
• 20:04
  advancing on ice and she's screaming, you know, help me to
• 20:07
  me through my young eyes. That was the height of drama,
• 20:10
  you know. That was my moment.
• 20:15
  Really? Oh bless well.
• 20:22
  I'm glad I'm not I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was
• 20:25
  that was, you know, rewinding and and hoping that somebody
• 20:29
  walked in at a particular point. Well that you and I could talk
• 20:33
  and talk. I'm gonna skip us into episode
• 20:36
  one if you are ready. Okay ready when you are.
• 20:42
  So I will count as in then in five four three two one.
• 20:50
  And we go. So when do you remember first
• 20:57
  watching this? Well, this is all wrong for me.
• 21:01
  You see Joe because this is in color and for me when I first
• 21:04
  saw Doctor Who in the silurians it was in black and white I was
• 21:08
  iced. I started getting bootleg videos
• 21:12
  from a comic shop of Hampton called the place and I live
• 21:15
  miles away from Wolverhampton, but I have a friend who is a who
• 21:18
  is a builder who would go and get go to the cash and carry
• 21:20
  their to get his supplies and I see he was going to all the
• 21:23
  Hampton and there was adverts for the place in this Doctor Who
• 21:27
  magazine so he basically dropped me off there.
• 21:28
  And anyway long and short of it the guy there did videos and I
• 21:32
  got Heartland track and first because they were, you know,
• 21:35
  ancient and old and the best. So what I should get some perks
• 21:38
  and I said to him which one's best and he went.
• 21:41
  Oh Doctor Who in the silurians and that really surprised me
• 21:43
  because it was I kind of knew it from the book.
• 21:46
  I realized later. It's because it was easier for
• 21:50
  him to run off the seven partner, right?
• 21:52
  That's why he was the first full lengths hurt we I had I think
• 22:03
  but it was in black and white from an Australian print
• 22:06
  gorgeous quality. I mean much better quality than
• 22:10
  the stories up but you still and and in a way possibly much
• 22:13
  better quality than the than the color we now have because it's a
• 22:16
  sort of compromised color all this is looking better than the
• 22:20
  first attempt at color that I saw many years ago.
• 22:23
  So it's one I had on on video for a long time.
• 22:28
  Do you think but in what do you think this works better in black
• 22:33
  and white? well I mean, you can't
• 22:37
  appreciate it. Unless you've seen it in the
• 22:39
  original black and white to misquote General Christopher
• 22:44
  Plummer from that Star Trek film and I I certainly think it works
• 22:54
  in black and white and it worked because I had it in such good
• 22:56
  quality. That was a real difference
• 22:58
  because so much of what I was watching at that time was
• 23:00
  compromised by multi-generational, you know
• 23:03
  metamorphosis, whereas this was pretty much one generation off
• 23:07
  are so it was gloryus and it was working black and white.
• 23:11
  I had a bootleg copy. So my dear was up in Scotland.
• 23:15
  I think this is his pockets now so Darren, I know you listening.
• 23:19
  All right, and he sent me down. I think it was a scotch Long
• 23:24
  play tape with Dr. Who and the silurians on it and I'll just
• 23:29
  got it was like looking for his mouth watching the thing.
• 23:34
  Oh, really? Yeah, it was it was it wasn't
• 23:37
  quite but I think okay. Honestly, I was looking out for
• 23:40
  skin out always examining this thing in microscopic detail and
• 23:43
  it was you know, it was Doctor Who from before my time, you
• 23:47
  know, I was desperate to see it. Yes, although unusually for me
• 23:52
  because this was one that I had the book of as well.
• 23:54
  I was never quite as excited to collect the ones that I felt I
• 24:00
  sort of knew and because this was one of the early books as
• 24:03
  well doctor in the K-pop monsters.
• 24:04
  In fact, the first chapter I ever read of a Target novel was
• 24:09
  the last chapter of doctor in the cave monsters because it's
• 24:11
  only two pages long. It's called the lie and it's the
• 24:15
  little coder where the doctor you know where the ending
• 24:17
  happens but it was I taught myself to read reading Doctor
• 24:21
  Who books but it's quite hard to read a whole Doctor Who but when
• 24:25
  you like six or seven or whatever I was but but I figured
• 24:28
  I could I could do that chapter because it was only two pages
• 24:31
  long. So right so I always knew that
• 24:33
  the ending of the silent he I've ruined Doctor Who's one of the
• 24:39
  best bits for mice and we will sew because like I kinda knew it
• 24:45
  I wasn't that sort of bothered about it, except of course.
• 24:48
  It's so different from the book. Yeah, yeah, we'll kind of look
• 24:52
  at that as we've got seven episodes to feel so we'll talk
• 24:57
  about it. I think it's an Incredible Book.
• 24:59
  Okay. Well there's It it is I always
• 25:03
  found the Malcolm Hulk books harder to read and and in fact.
• 25:07
  Quite often gave up on them or quite often skipped a couple of
• 25:10
  chapters, certainly the doctor and companion introductory stuff
• 25:14
  to get to the meat of the story maybe but but I I appreciated
• 25:20
  them more when I was at school and had maybe read all of the
• 25:24
  terrorists and then went back to the Malcolm Hulk ones, which I
• 25:27
  found just a bit tougher as I got older.
• 25:30
  Of course. I appreciated the more for their
• 25:32
  subtlety and for their You know their novel approaches to things
• 25:37
  like doing a chapter from the magnets point of view or all the
• 25:41
  one in for this where more he doesn't know what anyone's
• 25:45
  called but he knows what buttons are but that's you know, but
• 25:48
  it's okay that sort of that sort of imaginative stuff.
• 25:52
  I thought much enjoyed much more when I was older than when I was
• 25:56
  young because I was reading them at quite a young age.
• 26:00
  So any subtle sort of lost, you know, so the so the terroristic
• 26:04
  books were much easier to navigate in that way.
• 26:05
  I think we were so spoiled by just how economic terrorists
• 26:10
  Dick's Wars with his prose and just how quickly get to the
• 26:14
  point in a very I've been listening to the Target book
• 26:17
  novelization readings recently. And by go buy a five hours goes
• 26:23
  by an illicit. Yeah, I want to talk jumper
• 26:29
  with. Yes, because well, he's not in a
• 26:33
  very he's not in a particularly. Good mood.
• 26:38
  I don't mean the doctor. Yeah, he's some.
• 26:43
  I don't I don't know. What I think of Jumper was Dr.
• 26:47
  He's a funny one, isn't he? And because it's quite
• 26:50
  miserable. So but he's he's great.
• 26:53
  You know, he is he has that sort of a plum doesn't he?
• 26:56
  He's a natural. You know.
• 27:01
  Any number of people could dress like John put we I think Larry
• 27:05
  Turner kind of says it in in that documentary, but but he's
• 27:09
  the only one that can sort of get away with it.
• 27:11
  You know that with the best will in the world.
• 27:13
  I would love to look great in a frilly shirt and a cloth but I
• 27:18
  would look like a get who lives with his mom and I'm not taught.
• 27:23
  I don't have I mean he's taller than me, but he also has A great
• 27:28
  posture, you know and great presence and and against that
• 27:32
  the sort of clothes that he wears.
• 27:33
  He doesn't look like he's in fancy dress.
• 27:35
  I don't I don't ever question what John Peart was wearing in
• 27:39
  the way that I would if somebody else was wearing that stuff and
• 27:42
  I remember loving this bit where he goes.
• 27:44
  Well, it's not worth 50 million pins if it doesn't work to fit a
• 27:50
  mile and and he's got that line. He does doesn't he when when
• 27:54
  official people say to him. May I ask what you're doing and
• 27:58
  he was with you may ask he's very he's cool put down that
• 28:03
  he's he's obviously rehearsed. He's seven stories.
• 28:07
  He has his wonderful lies as he's introduced to your 40
• 28:12
  figure we comes up the lifting like I think I haven't had a
• 28:15
  pass because I believe in him. That's why not.
• 28:18
  Yeah. He's so rude.
• 28:19
  I love it. Yeah well and then he gets
• 28:23
  introduced to Ralph Corner. She doesn't he goes, let me
• 28:25
  explain this to you very simple terms.
• 28:28
  Until he's told to Ralph courtesies and then of course he
• 28:31
  gets a little bit of Secrets. I love Norman Jones as major
• 28:36
  Baker. He was a lovely actor who never
• 28:40
  I could never get an interview out of he he spent his last days
• 28:45
  in a in an arms house in Telford, which is actually where
• 28:48
  my mum works, but I think he was quite sad about how the The
• 28:53
  profession that kind of let him go a little bit it's a shame
• 28:56
  because he had a great career and he's a very very good actor
• 28:58
  and I love this the profile between major Baker and the
• 29:02
  Brigadier there. It's a lovely cast.
• 29:08
  Well, you've got Fulton McKay here.
• 29:10
  Who you know, he's resisting the urge to smile when this story
• 29:15
  like he's he's just on the verge of a laugh.
• 29:20
  Well, I think he's I think he's playing sort of amiable and open
• 29:24
  that that's his way of of. deflecting any sort of attention
• 29:31
  to himself in a way by being well, I'm just immutable and
• 29:34
  happy and easy going rather than doing that sort of know nothing
• 29:39
  at all acting that you know Shady characters can do so, I
• 29:43
  think it it works. It's kind of nice that he has
• 29:46
  that that sort of very pleasant. Sort of cheery cheery demeanor.
• 29:52
  What's lovely that is when that Master slip, you know when the
• 29:55
  doctors at his Cottage and you know, he can't oh that mask
• 30:01
  getting more. It's really interesting.
• 30:03
  Yeah, the doctor's really annoying.
• 30:04
  I I think so. I'll say it's now so don't
• 30:09
  forget I think with Fulton I hear this.
• 30:11
  I think this is the story. I'm not gonna Don't write in but
• 30:15
  I think this makes this the story that has the most credited
• 30:19
  cast who are obes in it. I think Kinder has the most cost
• 30:24
  but because Glenn Murphy and Graham Cole are extra, so
• 30:27
  they're not credited because Anna wing and Richard Todd are
• 30:30
  also but they're not all I think Anna win was an MBA or
• 30:34
  something. But there's three people in
• 30:35
  Doctor Who in the silurians Joe who are obese going in and tell
• 30:40
  me who Fulton McKay, of course. Yeah, I figured that was one.
• 30:45
  Yeah, Jeff Palmer. Oh, yes, of course.
• 30:49
  And Ian told but who plays Travis who is the guy in episode
• 30:54
  4 when? When Geoffrey Palmer arrived he
• 30:59
  sort of has a chat with Peter Mills and let's answer and keep
• 31:03
  saying I've already done that sir.
• 31:04
  And he's also the lawyer in in the Leisure Hive but he's a he's
• 31:09
  a an illustrious theater whose directed A lot of the three
• 31:13
  Regents Park open at theater. So he's obese for his services
• 31:17
  to theater. Never know who is walking for a
• 31:19
  dog whose story in a bit hard in You do not you do not when you
• 31:25
  said Peter then what you said when you say Peter miles should
• 31:31
  have had no be tomorrow should have had an Obe for services to
• 31:35
  snarling villainy. I love Peter miles in this.
• 31:38
  I think these holidays should have had to be for.
• 31:43
  Now I've got I'm gonna ask you a question.
• 31:45
  Now, will you in the commentary for this story?
• 31:49
  No, it was just before my time. Okay, I'd love to have been on
• 31:54
  the commentary for this story piece of miles is clearly an
• 31:57
  eccentric fellow and he's having almost a spat with Caroline
• 32:03
  Jonah one point where he's almost assuming the role that
• 32:08
  he's playing in the story in the commentary and going in these
• 32:11
  horrible lizards taking over my and Caroline John's going to
• 32:15
  Peter, you know, it's not real like did you hear it?
• 32:17
  This one this commentary? I I yes.
• 32:20
  I'm sure one point because Peter's Peter says something
• 32:23
  like well we should let these green people in and I'm sure one
• 32:28
  point but that's that's because you're a bigot Peter.
• 32:31
  I think I think there is a kind of and I think that was Peter
• 32:35
  miles. having fun. I had the pleasure of consorting
• 32:42
  with Peter miles on a couple of occasions and I would say his
• 32:45
  sense of humor. I was was very much Peter's own
• 32:49
  and he wasn't necessarily didn't necessarily check whether you
• 32:52
  were you were along the same ride as he was on before he
• 32:56
  embarked on it. I remember because I do the the
• 32:58
  commentary for invasion of the dinosaurs and he spent quite a
• 33:01
  lot of that insisting that Noel Johnson's character Charles
• 33:05
  groover was just like davros and I was slightly baffled as to why
• 33:09
  he was trying to talk about Genesis when we were talking
• 33:11
  about invasion of the dinosaurs and I think it was just a trick
• 33:14
  of his because he remembered Genesis better.
• 33:16
  And so he's going over is like Ross and we go.
• 33:20
  Yeah. All right Peter.
• 33:21
  He keeps asking Terence, doesn't he?
• 33:23
  What do you think Terence? well Well, can I might have told
• 33:31
  you that I don't know if I've told forgive me for this is a
• 33:34
  story of her before. It's a story that I was
• 33:35
  thinking. Well, I don't tell because it's
• 33:37
  it's breaking the professional code but it is a funny story
• 33:41
  when we would say invasion of the dinosaurs poetry.
• 33:46
  I was there with terrorists and Richard Morris the designer and
• 33:51
  Terence said so who else have you got coming today?
• 33:54
  I said Peter miles. Oh God the design.
• 34:00
  He said he said, you know Peter miles and Richard Morris goes
• 34:04
  no, he says hi. It's just the same party plays.
• 34:08
  And so I got the impression that Terence.
• 34:11
  It was not simpatico with Peter's.
• 34:13
  It sets a few more shall we say and when we were doing the sound
• 34:17
  check at the top of one of the episodes Peter was doing is
• 34:22
  well. I think Grover is like davros
• 34:25
  and he said and he was going and Terence what you think Terence.
• 34:28
  Can you hear me Terence, and there was a pause and Terence
• 34:31
  just read. Yes Peter every golden word.
• 34:39
  You know, I had brass with somebody.
• 34:42
  Yes yesterday in London who interviewed Peter miles once but
• 34:47
  he gave his number out. He and Pete's phone him up and
• 34:52
  he just went hello and I am your new friend for this year and
• 34:57
  apparently heard from him quite a lot.
• 35:03
  Oh, well, I I did I did enjoy Peter's company, but quite often
• 35:08
  with these actors when you meet them, you you sort of have to
• 35:12
  try and reassure them that you'll you're there because you
• 35:15
  really like the work and it's not just to do with Doctor Who
• 35:18
  you know, I always make sure that I talked to them about
• 35:20
  stuff. That isn't just Doctor Who and a
• 35:22
  sort of like, you know, I'm an admirer of you it's not just
• 35:24
  that you've got some tangential relationship with dog too and
• 35:27
  and that you know, well if I speak people who makes people go
• 35:30
  well, thank you very much and oh that's nice and people usually
• 35:33
  sort of go because I didn't I don't think anybody really is
• 35:35
  really hurting me or think so many good, you know, even some
• 35:37
  quite illustrious actors you go know we've heard of you whereas
• 35:41
  with Peter I was saying, of course when you're at the RSC
• 35:44
  played done, you know Stanley, which is a fantastic part, isn't
• 35:48
  it? And and it's going oh you don't
• 35:50
  know is he? Yes, I know and so he didn't
• 35:54
  need reassuring that if if you get my drift Pete Peter didn't
• 35:58
  need to be reassured that you know, I I was I was an admirer
• 36:03
  if He was kind of black. Well, yeah.
• 36:04
  I know. I'm I'm marvelous house a
• 36:08
  wonderful idea. He was he was good.
• 36:09
  He was good fun. He just a wonderful story about
• 36:11
  when he was at a convention and Nicholas Courtney became like is
• 36:16
  it president of the doctor Appreciation Society or
• 36:18
  something like that? And he was like moved to tears
• 36:20
  the that he had that moment. He says at one point.
• 36:25
  I think it's invasion of the dinosaurs where he says I was at
• 36:28
  a convention somewhere. With or without Michael Wisher I
• 36:33
  was like, oh very careful. Yeah, yes.
• 36:37
  Yeah, I could he had a funny way of expressing things like you
• 36:42
  didn't quite know what he was getting at and yes, we've been
• 36:45
  spoiled with Accenture sort of Eccentric older people in Doctor
• 36:50
  Who and I love them in the commentaries and I love them in
• 36:52
  the series The Weird of the best.
• 36:57
  And he was an eccentric but he was all so an a fabulous actor
• 37:02
  and and I love him as neither but I think neither is an easier
• 37:05
  part than Dr. Lauren's and I think he's fantastic as Dr.
• 37:11
  Lawrence and there's a scene that we will see major Baker
• 37:14
  doesn't quite close his briefcase properly there.
• 37:16
  I've always noticed that anyway, it doesn't matter and like Dr.
• 37:20
  Lawrence is she got like this restrained anger.
• 37:23
  He's desperate to let out sort of, you know, professional
• 37:27
  escort and all that and the funding and then finally last
• 37:31
  scene when he's up on the table. It just explodes.
• 37:34
  It's extraordinary. That's it.
• 37:38
  I I think it's a really well acted death scene because it
• 37:42
  doesn't attempt to look pretty action and death actors love
• 37:47
  doing death because you can you can do it sort of quite nobly or
• 37:50
  whatever. It's quite a it's quite a raw
• 37:53
  thing that but people often die very prettily in television
• 37:57
  programs. What I what I admire about what
• 37:59
  Peter miles does in his death scene is and it's the same with
• 38:02
  fights fights with very well choreographed on television
• 38:05
  because that's how we expect them to look but if you've ever
• 38:07
  seen a fight in real life, they're ugly and slightly
• 38:10
  embarrassing and awkward and I and death is like that as well
• 38:13
  and I think Peter miles it shows us good actor to me somebody who
• 38:17
  puts his vanity to one side to dare to risk to look silly which
• 38:23
  I don't think he does. I think he looks utterly real in
• 38:27
  that death scene because the actor has put his vanity to one
• 38:30
  side and I think it's a great fantastic scene that is in a
• 38:35
  much later episode. Yes.
• 38:38
  He will get there. What about this?
• 38:41
  Very pretty chat who's having a bit of a turn.
• 38:44
  He's like, he's one of those actors that we don't know very
• 38:46
  much about Roy Brannigan. He gets a close up.
• 38:49
  He's not an awful lot else and we've never been able to find
• 38:52
  it. Identity do any other work?
• 38:59
  Yeah, he says in a few things that are around that time but
• 39:02
  we've never I've never found him and nor have the two or three
• 39:06
  other members of these sort of Coterie of actor Hunters that
• 39:10
  that I that I hang around with on the internet.
• 39:15
  You know much about it that these seven Partners have and
• 39:21
  you know, it's something else sort of point.
• 39:23
  I know TV the language of television has changed now and
• 39:26
  we do things very quickly in a retail sequence and set the
• 39:29
  scene but this sort of spending an entire episode building one
• 39:34
  mystery after another, you know, the problems with the site
• 39:36
  control the psychological problems of the staff.
• 39:40
  The horror down in the caves it builds up the mystery really
• 39:44
  effectively, I think. A for me I I've always felt that
• 39:49
  the seven parties seem slightly less padded than the six parties
• 39:53
  and I don't know why that is I don't know if because they they
• 39:59
  know they're in it for a long haul psychologically, you know,
• 40:03
  draw the story out rather than stick a couple of bits of
• 40:07
  padding in so any sort of lengthening is done through
• 40:10
  story and plot and character. Whereas in the sixth part, as
• 40:13
  you know, sometimes get a you know a Chase for an episode or
• 40:17
  you know, a couple of set pieces whereas I think you know
• 40:21
  ambassadors and so there is any Inferno they all seem to be a
• 40:23
  bit more plot-based. Although I can't think of
• 40:26
  Chase's in in all of those stories.
• 40:29
  So maybe it's just my bias is showing but I certainly feel
• 40:33
  that the seven part is earn their links.
• 40:35
  As a as a clutch in a way that the six part is sometimes don't.
• 40:40
  I feel like yeah this baby. That's because I also like the
• 40:44
  gritty feel. There's like a massive plot
• 40:47
  tangent in silurians and Ambassador and Inferno.
• 40:53
  Whereas yeah, I always feel like there's a bit of running on the
• 40:55
  spot in four and five in a six-part and then we finished
• 40:58
  story. Yeah, yeah, um.
• 41:06
  I put which great at all of this.
• 41:08
  Let's not also forget because we've had the first one.
• 41:12
  On film spearhead. This is per was really first
• 41:16
  time of doing multi-camera drama.
• 41:19
  Because he hadn't really done much TV if any TV drama before.
• 41:28
  You know, he's a comic and a radioactive and it film but but
• 41:32
  the discipline of doing multi-camera is very different
• 41:35
  and the discipline of doing multi camera drama.
• 41:37
  It's very different to the discipline of doing.
• 41:40
  Ellie or comedy? So it's quite a big ask for
• 41:46
  somebody to hold a series in a in a sort of medium you're not.
• 41:49
  Hugely familiar with I mean by all accounts, he was a nervous
• 41:54
  actor. Anyway in Safari's sort of
• 41:56
  people. He probably considered his best.
• 42:00
  He was working alongside, you know, trying to find his name
• 42:04
  but adding that as well and just taking on this old behem or for
• 42:10
  the show on his shoulders. yes, and I and I think you know, it's
• 42:15
  well known that the stuff about what he was working with trout
• 42:17
  and Trent would like to go off script and and put me would
• 42:20
  rather not and both of those are perfectly legitimate approaches
• 42:23
  to acting and if you're if you're an actor that you know
• 42:27
  that just that has worked out your Performance Based on.
• 42:31
  What has been rehearsed and a series of cues?
• 42:34
  It's it's it's fair enough to be like, I love the Mercurial track
• 42:37
  approach because you get stuff out of left field, but they're
• 42:40
  both but they're both perfectly legitimate ways of working and
• 42:43
  you can understand why I put we would perhaps need to hide
• 42:46
  behind the technique in a way in order to give him the security
• 42:49
  blanket which is fair enough version with trout and you've
• 42:55
  got the scriptures are just off camera guy.
• 42:56
  Oh God, where's he going with this now like you doing now,
• 43:01
  which is if you're good at it. That's great.
• 43:04
  But if you're not it's a nightmare.
• 43:06
  So again, I forgive track anything because I just think
• 43:09
  he's marvelous but it only takes somebody to do that are not do
• 43:13
  it. Well and somebody that is
• 43:14
  written things. You know, you you sweat over
• 43:16
  every syllable not some actor. Just wondering if you go.
• 43:19
  Well I can think of something better off the top of my head.
• 43:21
  Okay, get off get lost as a writer.
• 43:25
  I would probably prefer per week Chris fresh beat me running down
• 43:29
  from the gallery and say look, we wrote those. you say them or
• 43:33
  yeah. I mean the other thing about
• 43:35
  pert is he looks fantastic even in this minus gear.
• 43:39
  Do you know he can he can wear anything well and you get the
• 43:42
  impression he can you could probably use any piece of
• 43:44
  equipment like like an expert. You know, he it just everything
• 43:47
  he's so capable and competent which I rather like so special
• 43:51
  is a contrast to try out and for whom everything seemed to happen
• 43:54
  by some sort of series of accidents again, I like both of
• 43:56
  those things in my in my doctor. I just feel like they were out
• 44:00
  the clothes just sort of hung on him, you know?
• 44:01
  Yes, they were just hanging out whereas with her you you're
• 44:05
  right, you know the the documentary to her earlier where
• 44:08
  she says, you know, he's so damn sexy.
• 44:10
  I don't just agree. He's got a certain magnetism.
• 44:13
  I think it's The Authority that he carries Yeah.
• 44:18
  Oh Doctor Who Is Not Gonna Save the Day when John Parish trolls
• 44:23
  into a story. Yeah, although I have to ask you
• 44:28
  Joe. Have you ever made a dinosaur
• 44:31
  roar at the moment of climax? And then does weird big?
• 44:39
  Yes. Mmm, it's an interesting
• 44:45
  Cliffhanger. Isn't it?
• 44:46
  Give the dinosaur doesn't really do much. oh, but I mean it's
• 44:52
  such an important part of the book and it's on the cover and
• 44:55
  it looks amazing and there's a fantastic internal illustration
• 44:58
  of this giant Tyrannosaurus and the doctor sort of looking after
• 45:02
  and and you know, when I was a kid reading those that God
• 45:06
  doctor in the old days was brilliant, they did things like
• 45:09
  that not maths in a lay-by which you know 18 even CSO is it
• 45:18
  that's an actual costume that they feel Yeah, it is the first
• 45:23
  CSO shot later in episode. What is it four or five where
• 45:27
  major Baker sees it and it's that there's a panel of one of
• 45:30
  the caves and that's I think the first CSO shot of Doctor Who but
• 45:34
  that because the doctor and the dinosaur aren't in shot at the
• 45:38
  same time is not CSO. And yes, but even when it is
• 45:42
  CSO, they didn't need a man in a costume.
• 45:45
  They they may as well have just had a model and it was having
• 45:48
  the man in the costume that made them realize that and go.
• 45:51
  Oh no, we it could be any size because we're CSO in it, but you
• 45:56
  only work that stuff out. Once you've done it only becomes
• 45:59
  obvious. Once you've done it, you know
• 46:00
  and having had Bertram the dinosaur sort of looping about
• 46:05
  and then oh, why did we just do it do it with a model and then
• 46:08
  we'll do model dinosaur was nothing comparable go go wrong.
• 46:12
  But you know before we out episode 1 I want to ask you if
• 46:18
  you know about I think I read it in Barry.
• 46:21
  Let's Sort of who autopy who were me?
• 46:27
  Yeah, we talked about. The caves sets beer truck and
• 46:32
  the set man saying basically look.
• 46:35
  These aren't going to be ready in time and you're not going to
• 46:38
  have a say on the day and then it turned up on the day and they
• 46:41
  essentially had like a set of black drapes or it just wasn't
• 46:44
  ready to go and everyone sort of dashed in.
• 46:47
  To make this work the only thing about that.
• 46:51
  I don't okay. Yeah.
• 46:58
  It was yeah, it was just of everybody in sort of every
• 47:02
  production. He just said we need help and
• 47:05
  just everyone sort of came to the fair and and assembled those
• 47:09
  cases as best as they possibly could.
• 47:12
  Which and that's that's that's that's the magic that's what I
• 47:15
  love about. That's why I love going behind
• 47:18
  the scenes and love finding out how things were made because
• 47:20
  those stories of how through Endeavor and creativity and
• 47:25
  sometimes a bit of luck and sometimes a series of accidents,
• 47:28
  you know, these things that we know and love manifested
• 47:32
  themselves not because they were you know flung together by
• 47:37
  people who didn't give a monkeys but because they were you know,
• 47:41
  they were they were great Endeavors often against
• 47:43
  remarkable odds, and that's why I'm you know, I I have totally
• 47:49
  with people who don't care what anybody's called him what went
• 47:52
  on behind this but I'm always drawn to the story behind The
• 47:56
  Story. I mean, I'm I'm as interested I
• 47:58
  think in in how a story came to be then I am in in watching the
• 48:03
  story, you know, there's a fabulous story is no way around.
• 48:07
  Let's try and to cast Sarah Jane Smith.
• 48:10
  I think for the second time. This is sort of Post-it Walker
• 48:14
  and now I'll see her give a performance.
• 48:16
  I would have been a very different season 11 and its a
• 48:23
  script. That's what something saying.
• 48:24
  Oh, there's someone that's been in two set cars absolutely
• 48:26
  amazing. I just love the fact that
• 48:27
  there's all these sort of pulls of resources.
• 48:30
  You can just go into the next the next room, you know. yes,
• 48:35
  well, that's something to be said there I think for having a
• 48:38
  public service broadcaster with an infrastructure where you know
• 48:42
  people learn off each other and you know as you say you can you
• 48:50
  could go down the corridor and people can help each other out
• 48:52
  and people can expose you perhaps to Talent you might not
• 48:55
  otherwise have been because you're all working for the same
• 48:59
  cause but maybe getting stuff from from different places now
• 49:02
  everything you know, now everything is is you know done
• 49:07
  this they're all every production is, you know is an
• 49:10
  individual Enterprise that you know, three or four shows made
• 49:14
  at the same time might make exactly the same mistake or and
• 49:21
  well, yeah, and I I just think I just think having that building
• 49:25
  teeming with with talent and Industry and and training people
• 49:30
  up so that even people who left the BBC and then went to make
• 49:33
  films had got the proper training and the proper, you
• 49:36
  know background which then fed into our film industry, which
• 49:39
  means that as a country making films we sort of we do Punch
• 49:44
  above our weight and all of that and that all comes from having a
• 49:46
  creative infrastructure which which I think is harder to have
• 49:51
  if you don't have a public service broadcaster in-house
• 49:54
  like that old model of the BBC, but then again, I'm very old.
• 49:57
  It's I love the stories of you know, you hear some of the
• 50:04
  Doctor Who actors telling about the rehearsal rooms, you know,
• 50:07
  and you've got The Two Ronnies going on over there and to the
• 50:10
  Mana born going on over there God it must be a great time to
• 50:14
  be inside of vision. Yeah, and I mean it's it's you
• 50:19
  know, we're very happy. I do a lot of radio drama and
• 50:23
  You know, it's it's a lot easier now that I have this set up
• 50:28
  here. I've got a slightly better set
• 50:31
  up in the corner over over there, which I do for something
• 50:34
  that that had to pass technical tests or whatever, but the past
• 50:41
  few radio dramas radio for drums that I've done I've been done
• 50:45
  from here. It sounds me that you know, 15
• 50:49
  years ago. I was in a green room with
• 50:51
  Michael Palin and Mark Heath and David, please you know and
• 50:55
  hanging around and part of the joy of being an actor is hanging
• 51:00
  around with other actors and meeting actors.
• 51:02
  You've seen in other things and being able to say about like,
• 51:05
  you know, blah blah blah. Well, you know, I've worked with
• 51:09
  Toby Jones, for example, what's he like Toby?
• 51:12
  Um, well I could tell you what is duvet covers like because he
• 51:15
  was like me he was in his house, you know it with a duvet over
• 51:20
  over block the sound out and we didn't say two words to each
• 51:24
  other off Mike even though we shared a number of scenes
• 51:29
  together and did good work, but now You know, the sad reality is
• 51:35
  that that doesn't probably affect the outcome of the final
• 51:40
  piece at all. But it means I don't have any
• 51:43
  good Toby Jones stories. I you know when when the
• 51:48
  technical stuff wasn't happening.
• 51:50
  I couldn't sort of chill out in the Green Room Makeover Jones a
• 51:52
  cup of tea and us have a chat and discover that we got mutual
• 51:55
  friends or maybe work out a bit of business for this particular
• 51:59
  scene or whatever. But as I say the sad reality is
• 52:03
  it does it does in the great scheme of things?
• 52:05
  It doesn't matter and probably in the great scheme of things.
• 52:09
  It doesn't matter that you don't meet on a Monday and rehearse at
• 52:13
  the Acton Hilton through to the Friday and then record on the
• 52:17
  Friday night, you know, a lot of old actors say oh but that
• 52:19
  rehearsal time was important. Well now one of the skills you
• 52:23
  have to have as an actor is to turn up with your A-game and
• 52:27
  your ideas fully formed and do them at the runs through just
• 52:31
  before they start turning and then but in a really good
• 52:34
  performance and there's some damn good acting on telly right
• 52:36
  now and it's not and would it be better if they'd have five days
• 52:41
  wrestling? Well, I don't know because you
• 52:44
  know looking at Sarah Lancashire and Happy Valley or whatever
• 52:47
  that's a phenomenal but she has to bring it with her to get
• 52:51
  there. So again, we might go.
• 52:53
  Oh, it's so much better to do it like that.
• 52:55
  But well it was great then and It produced some performances
• 52:59
  that I absolutely love but you know times change and we do
• 53:03
  things differently that doesn't necessarily mean it's worse.
• 53:06
  It just means that the story is will be less interesting in the
• 53:10
  future, you know, there's gonna be He you know, there's going to
• 53:15
  be probably fewer anecdotes which even with things probably
• 53:18
  doesn't matter. I'll say I think that's a
• 53:22
  wonderful place to end episode one.
• 53:24
  You said earlier in this episode about some wonderful chases in
• 53:29
  the season 7 stories. Yeah, a season is episode two.
• 53:35
  I'm trying to remember from memory.
• 53:37
  Is that where we're heading across the mall searching for
• 53:39
  these silurian? how to No, that's it's more sort
• 53:47
  of three. It's more sort of episode 3
• 53:51
  because that it's escaped from Doris's Barn.
• 53:54
  So it's episode three that has that gorgeous location stuff
• 54:01
  amazing. Well, if you hold my hands or
• 54:05
  head back down into the tunnel and face that around us Rex.
• 54:10
  Okie, dokie, let's let's let's let's go and see what he's like
• 54:14
  once he's got into us. I'm still Hello and welcome back
• 55:00
  to a hamster with a blunt knife the Doctor Who commentary
• 55:04
  podcast. My name is Toby hadoken invited
• 55:08
  here by the owner of set pen knife and presumably said
• 55:14
  hamster, it's Joe for hello, Joe.
• 55:16
  Hello there. I don't marvelous time watching
• 55:20
  episode 1. Yes, I we didn't really talk
• 55:24
  about Doctor Who in the silurian is the white with this thing?
• 55:30
  Yeah, it's just a it's just a jumping off point.
• 55:32
  Is it to talk about the one that's the beautiful thing is I
• 55:36
  thought I'd eventually, you know run out of things to say doing
• 55:39
  countries and podcasts and all sorts of other things but it's
• 55:43
  there's so much because it I think because doctor is such a
• 55:46
  personal thing. There's so much that you can You
• 55:51
  could use a piece of visual stimulation or piece of music or
• 55:54
  a scene or a monster or whatever or as we have done with episode
• 55:57
  one The Book which has nothing really to do with what we're
• 56:01
  watching and in many ways and it takes you off into sort of all
• 56:05
  sorts of different places. That's that's the wonderful
• 56:08
  thing about Doctor Who and I guess why it's sustains itself
• 56:13
  across so many different internet platforms.
• 56:15
  It always amuses me because as we always think the world sort
• 56:20
  of revolves around us, don't we but when you you know, when you
• 56:23
  look at what's trending on Twitter like throughout the
• 56:26
  whole world and sometimes it'll be like Sergeant you and it's
• 56:33
  because talk too fast seem to dominate the internet.
• 56:37
  I'll say my heart stops every time Tom Baker's trending.
• 56:41
  I you know I am there quickly. And yeah, this is usually for
• 56:47
  some fabulous reason. Yes, because yes, somebody's he
• 56:52
  said something or somebody's on Earth to clip or something.
• 56:54
  God bless him. Yeah, oh he for Dr. And the
• 56:59
  silurians episode 2 Toby. This is called Doctor Who and
• 57:05
  the silurians? Yes, it is.
• 57:08
  That's and it is you there's no getting away from that because
• 57:13
  it's the it's the on-screen title and presumably it's a
• 57:17
  mistake but it is called Doctor Who in the silurians and there's
• 57:22
  the wonderful thing isn't that with season 7 every title is
• 57:26
  done slightly differently. So spearhead from space.
• 57:28
  It's the title comes out. You just a little bit.
• 57:32
  It stands more Compares a little bit bigger doctor in the
• 57:36
  silurians. Well, it's odd because it's
• 57:37
  called Doctor Who in the silurians ambassadors of death.
• 57:40
  We all know the ambassadors kapow, which is all right, and
• 57:46
  then it info Inferno is in front of the you know, it the words
• 57:52
  start off blurred and then that forms the word Inferno in front
• 57:55
  of stock footage of a volcano. So so each season seven story
• 58:00
  has its own unique aspect to the story title and the most
• 58:05
  traditional presentation this one which Is just the story
• 58:08
  title over the titles adds the word Doctor Who that's the word
• 58:12
  Doctor Who which is I mean, I I love the fact that the show has
• 58:18
  these little quirks that we can sort of debate and get what it
• 58:22
  boils down to is it's it's it's it's sort of a kind of a cock up
• 58:25
  but it throws a open a number of questions and it's quite a fun
• 58:31
  thing that it exists in that way.
• 58:33
  You know, I mean, it is one that seems to sort of reoccur, isn't
• 58:36
  it Dr. Who is required Doctor Vaughn were We quite who indeed.
• 58:45
  Yes, it is. Yeah, he signs himself Dr. W.
• 58:48
  Doesn't he and in the underwater Menace?
• 58:51
  I mean, it's a shame. This was one of the early books
• 58:53
  because I'm sure with the later books.
• 58:55
  Didn't they? They stopped doing the Doctor
• 58:58
  Who and the cave monster does not too and the Android Invasion
• 59:00
  it was then Doctor Who Dash? You know four to Doomsday, it
• 59:05
  wasn't dog to and the four to Doomsday.
• 59:06
  I would have loved it. If it had been Doctor Who Dash
• 59:09
  Doctor Who in the silurians because which is what it really
• 59:12
  would have been cool or Doctor Who and the Doctor Who in the
• 59:15
  silurians to give it its proper size title.
• 59:20
  You realize but of course I and I love the fact that that those
• 59:25
  early target books are different titles as well.
• 59:27
  I mean, I still sort of think of the moon base of his Doctor Who
• 59:31
  and the Cybermen. I think Doctor Who in the
• 59:34
  Doomsday weapon is a much better title than colony in space why
• 59:38
  some much better story I think as well it did and yes a part of
• 59:43
  this will always be for me Doctor Who and the cave
• 59:46
  monsters, you know featuring featuring major Barker and you
• 59:52
  know octel and more and Cato the silurians not altered in young
• 59:58
  salarian slurry in scientists. Do you think Malcolm Hulk like
• 1:00:02
  giving this story is another pass. by being able to Well, I
• 1:00:08
  wonder if he just figured the word it was the better ways of
• 1:00:12
  telling it in prose particularly his p o v stuff that he does and
• 1:00:18
  you know, there's a there's a line in in episode one isn't
• 1:00:21
  there about major Baker? Who is we slipped up a few years
• 1:00:23
  ago? Well in the book you get the
• 1:00:25
  flashback don't you just need he shoots an IRA gunman or
• 1:00:30
  something or he shoots an unarmed man or something and And
• 1:00:38
  but I think the IRA are mentioned as well, which I
• 1:00:40
  remember when I went back to it thinking.
• 1:00:42
  Oh, that's a bit. That's I'm not sure.
• 1:00:44
  I want the IRA and Doctor Who to exist in the same universe.
• 1:00:48
  It seems like seems like a bit of a bit of a clash there I was
• 1:00:52
  doing but he felt as if sort of I don't know maybe something
• 1:00:56
  that he was trying to say was Lost in Translation because I
• 1:01:00
  feel like an angry book when I read it it's it's very clever.
• 1:01:04
  I love that chapter about Captain Dent with his IMC flat
• 1:01:07
  terrifying, isn't it? It's it's superb and I and I
• 1:01:14
  loved his daughter bullet attempts to say I I didn't quite
• 1:01:16
  get them when I was younger and it was only when I came back to
• 1:01:18
  the you know of telling stuff from the different alien points
• 1:01:22
  of view. And of course all the bits you
• 1:01:24
  remember from the Hulk books Trent shards safety catch
• 1:01:28
  Butlers Scar and not there and not so quite often when you
• 1:01:33
  watch a Hulk and let's not forget.
• 1:01:35
  This is the first solo Hulk story and he only writes so low
• 1:01:41
  stories. in the perk Weir, he is the sort of pert we write in a
• 1:01:46
  way and you know a lot of that that we think of as the I know
• 1:01:53
  barrier, lets us very much an environmentalist.
• 1:01:56
  But but Hulk was you know Hulk was very left-wing and and and I
• 1:02:03
  think he probably feels he can get away with that a bit more in
• 1:02:06
  the books. Maybe than in the in the TV
• 1:02:09
  version or again. Maybe it's those in a
• 1:02:14
  monologues, but he certainly trying to do very interesting
• 1:02:17
  things which doesn't always happen in his TV stories, which
• 1:02:21
  do seem sometimes. slightly slightly padded at times some of
• 1:02:27
  his six parties or slightly, you know people talking in a room,
• 1:02:31
  but the conversations against seem to be slightly more
• 1:02:33
  interesting in the in the books, but that's maybe because we get
• 1:02:36
  the inner monologue. I don't know I you know, even I
• 1:02:39
  think Miss Dawson and Dr. Quinn you get slightly more insight
• 1:02:43
  into the book. Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  Yeah lying about. Oh gosh.
• 1:02:49
  I can't remember it. Now is it?
• 1:02:52
  When did I? she's she was always thinking
• 1:02:55
  well, I mean The man I'm gonna marry and when does she stop
• 1:03:01
  thinking that and think you know, when did when did that
• 1:03:04
  opportunity? Well, when did that slip by?
• 1:03:07
  That's so sad. Yeah desperately sad.
• 1:03:12
  That's sad. I always remember as well.
• 1:03:14
  I gotta make a point but they're all around the first.
• 1:03:18
  Chapter of invasion of the dinosaurs or the dinosaur
• 1:03:21
  Invasion. Sorry that Paul fella actually.
• 1:03:23
  Yeah, and I think that you get a chapter in the book of this
• 1:03:28
  where it's it's shock Tangy the the taxi driver that that
• 1:03:33
  Masters gets a taxi because he has to get off the train and
• 1:03:37
  none of that happens in this in the story at all.
• 1:03:39
  But you get this you meet this Taxi Driver you get sort of you
• 1:03:43
  know is little in a story and by the end of these dead, you know,
• 1:03:46
  there we go, one of you of finding a contemporary character
• 1:03:52
  and telling this sort of absurd situation through it.
• 1:03:57
  It makes it real. Yeah, it does.
• 1:04:00
  It does she. Yes.
• 1:04:04
  All right, then. We carrying into it.
• 1:04:09
  You gonna do it what you do it you do it.
• 1:04:12
  Okay, we're gonna start watching episode 2 of Doctor Who and the
• 1:04:17
  cave monster. So sorry Doctor Who in the
• 1:04:20
  siluria 2 1 oh And I do like this title sequence.
• 1:04:28
  I'm a big fan of the early title sequences.
• 1:04:34
  I do think when Barry let's brought in the sting, you know,
• 1:04:39
  the Sting the Lays into the yes it is that was a savviest move
• 1:04:44
  or perhaps any producer ever made.
• 1:04:47
  Yeah. Yeah, and it's a bit odd
• 1:04:49
  watching stories without it, isn't it now because it's so
• 1:04:52
  it's so much a part of it. The one that stands out is
• 1:04:57
  Spirit of the space episode 1 when the soldiers sort of shouts
• 1:05:02
  out. You know, who told you to fire.
• 1:05:05
  And then and then the music is just sort of cuts in and it's so
• 1:05:08
  jarring. What it's not just that doesn't
• 1:05:11
  he say isn't it? The only doctor Cliffhanger cut
• 1:05:14
  off somebody big call to swat who told you to fire.
• 1:05:18
  You stupid. So the music's coming stop.
• 1:05:27
  Yeah. but of course this was first Produced story but this
• 1:05:33
  yeah. Yeah.
• 1:05:38
  He tells a marvelous story in that little biography about his
• 1:05:42
  budget that he got sort of the news of his budget through and
• 1:05:46
  he said well with this is very generous and then he realizes
• 1:05:51
  the decimal points in the wrong point.
• 1:05:55
  He Well, look, I mean this is a this is a very nice cave.
• 1:06:00
  It's very nicely lit as well. Because of course, it's very
• 1:06:04
  hard to lie to cave. properly because You know most caves
• 1:06:11
  lighting system is is would be an inimical to being able to see
• 1:06:16
  it in a drama, you know to me although I watched I watched a
• 1:06:20
  film called The Descent very recently, which it's about 20
• 1:06:24
  years old now, but that's that's where I am in my modern viewing
• 1:06:28
  and I was shocked to discover that that was all.
• 1:06:31
  In a set because it looked totally believable.
• 1:06:33
  It was beautifully done, but I think for you know 70s Doctor
• 1:06:38
  Who I think the the cave sets in this a very good I think Pete
• 1:06:42
  Davidson in the shot commercial like Kate's work and Doctor Who
• 1:06:48
  it's a dark sort of claustrophobic location that you
• 1:06:52
  can kind of do all the cheap. Yeah, yeah and just yes, there's
• 1:06:58
  a series of shocks got good caves.
• 1:07:01
  I suppose you could say mine is a good guy.
• 1:07:04
  I like that. We just sort of walks in when
• 1:07:07
  they're all they're all. Sort of panicking about where he
• 1:07:11
  is. He goes good.
• 1:07:12
  Hello that God of that. It's still got his moment.
• 1:07:16
  So sure, you know, I was just thinking then, you know, I'm
• 1:07:18
  having a good evening when I'm chatting away with dogs who
• 1:07:22
  found about the best case in Doctor Who stories but the worst
• 1:07:30
  I think the worst example, this is of course when you have no
• 1:07:33
  budget left at all and you're having to see so everybody into
• 1:07:36
  caves. Yeah.
• 1:07:40
  Yeah. That that's probably seemed like
• 1:07:44
  a great idea at the time and and it's simply doesn't work.
• 1:07:47
  I feel so sorry for the the people making doctor at around
• 1:07:51
  that time. you know the 70s were For the late 70s were tough
• 1:07:58
  weren't they? Whereas this you know, this this
• 1:08:01
  stuff here partially that the present-day Earth setting helps
• 1:08:05
  as well. But you know these these look as
• 1:08:07
  good. If not better you watch other
• 1:08:09
  drama from Brand this time. You know, Doctor Who looks good.
• 1:08:12
  It can hold a it can hold a candle to every to anything
• 1:08:16
  else, you know, supposedly more adult fare.
• 1:08:19
  Like do watch doesn't look any any more realistic than Doctor
• 1:08:23
  Who you know, it's funny. You should bring out doing watch
• 1:08:26
  because I was just gonna ask you a question.
• 1:08:27
  What's this? What were they all the same
• 1:08:29
  time? Yeah, because yeah do much at
• 1:08:36
  the same time period yes, because do more shares Spaceship
• 1:08:42
  models, doesn't it with ambassadors of death on the do
• 1:08:45
  watch episode reentry? Forbidden it shares it shares
• 1:08:49
  some of production which I think is a very smart move.
• 1:08:53
  Well done everybody and you know, that's lots of men in the
• 1:08:58
  room yelling at each other. That's essentially what what I
• 1:09:01
  quite like drama that's people in a really good at each other
• 1:09:03
  to be fine. Terrorists tells attention to
• 1:09:11
  fraying that'll do me. Terrorist terrorist drinks and a
• 1:09:15
  particularly. Naughty mood tells that story
• 1:09:19
  about how the Doom watch production team.
• 1:09:21
  Got, you know, certainly cost your eye over the story lines,
• 1:09:24
  you know, just so we're not doing the same thing and he had
• 1:09:27
  a quick look anyway. Well, I wouldn't touch any of
• 1:09:29
  them. You know, like that's fine.
• 1:09:30
  We're good. You know, let's say yes, well
• 1:09:38
  well and of course this all so having been You know exiled to
• 1:09:45
  Earth. There was the famous.
• 1:09:49
  I think it was Malcolm Holt was it famously said to parents.
• 1:09:51
  Well, you've got two stories, you know invasion of Earth and
• 1:09:54
  mad scientist and this idea. that actually, the enemy is The
• 1:10:03
  creatures who were here before mankind is such a good idea and
• 1:10:09
  throws in with it moral dilemmas and throws in with it ideas
• 1:10:14
  about you know, who deserves what an identity identity and
• 1:10:18
  nationhood and and that's I remember that very strongly in
• 1:10:21
  the book that major Barker when he gets captured.
• 1:10:25
  You know, he says I die for England and Saint George, he's
• 1:10:27
  he's Hulk in the books has a real thing about patriotism
• 1:10:32
  which comes out in trenchard in the sea devils.
• 1:10:36
  In fact, Captain heart says doesn't either you know main
• 1:10:40
  characteristic is his patriotism.
• 1:10:42
  And that's what the the master is able to exploit.
• 1:10:45
  That's I love the way the silurians are shot in this
• 1:10:47
  episode because one of the things they don't do Is show us
• 1:10:52
  the full creature until episode 3 which means that the end of
• 1:10:55
  episode 3 which means there are lots of different ways of having
• 1:10:58
  them in Shadow. And I think they really well and
• 1:11:01
  Timothy Cooper I think shoots them superbly on film and in the
• 1:11:05
  studio, but yeah, but Malcolm Hulk has this this sort of
• 1:11:08
  thread about where he seems quite obsessed with the idea of
• 1:11:12
  what it means to be patriotic and and he thinks of it as quite
• 1:11:16
  a foolish thing. I think which is which but but
• 1:11:19
  he's not unsympathetic to To his patriotic people.
• 1:11:25
  He he makes it totally understandable from their point
• 1:11:29
  of view, but he makes it sort of sad and flawed characteristic
• 1:11:34
  and I think that's very interesting.
• 1:11:36
  I certainly wouldn't like that that moment in doctor in the sea
• 1:11:39
  Devils the novel that moment where the safety catch is.
• 1:11:45
  Shifted I don't think he is entirely as a pathetically it
• 1:11:49
  wouldn't add a moment like that. It doesn't redeem the character,
• 1:11:53
  but it's it's you know, it's spares him the humiliation.
• 1:11:58
  yeah, and and he and he has seen from that character's point of
• 1:12:02
  view where he's you know, sort of morning doesn't he wants the
• 1:12:06
  loss of Empire or the, you know more horns the and he doesn't he
• 1:12:13
  doesn't make it sort of cruel cruel or bullish patriotism.
• 1:12:19
  It's more a lost man having something to Anchor himself with
• 1:12:24
  and that's quite you know, that's quite sympathetic and
• 1:12:27
  that's quite You know quite a sort of decent take on.
• 1:12:35
  On what you know, what what ends up being that characteristic
• 1:12:39
  characters fatal flaw, you know, the reason I brought do much is
• 1:12:43
  because I've done a watch of it recently and I couldn't find a
• 1:12:50
  decent role for a woman anywhere in that main cast at all.
• 1:12:55
  And yeah, I think that depiction of Liz Shaw in this season is
• 1:13:01
  pretty groundbreaking. I don't know how we've got this
• 1:13:05
  far without mentioning English. Sure. well, indeed, I mean, I
• 1:13:10
  think it's funny when I was growing up Liz was the sort of
• 1:13:14
  companion who fell through the cracks really because I think
• 1:13:18
  you know, we knew that she'd been sort of let go after one
• 1:13:21
  season didn't even have a proper leaving scene and you know, all
• 1:13:24
  of the Hindi talk was well, you know, it didn't work having
• 1:13:27
  somebody as the doctors equal. Ah, I and I I love I love
• 1:13:32
  barrettes and terrorists and I have have respect for them both
• 1:13:35
  and I love I love Joe Grant, but I I think you could have made
• 1:13:40
  this work if you'd wanted to You know they did they do it, you
• 1:13:46
  know. It's amazing.
• 1:13:49
  How often the Doctor Who companion is is devised to be a
• 1:13:53
  change from your usual Doctor Who companion because Zoe is not
• 1:13:57
  a screamer. Really we forget the bit in the
• 1:14:01
  mind rubber where she screams on the Tardis console because
• 1:14:03
  that's the sort of surreal mind. Fuck if you like but Zoe is not
• 1:14:09
  a particularly screamy companion and she offered uses her
• 1:14:14
  intelligence and she offered patronizes the doctor and and
• 1:14:18
  then you know straight after Zoe you've got Liz who is the the
• 1:14:22
  Cambridge educated? She's a doctor.
• 1:14:25
  It's the two doctors and and Caroline John totally convinces.
• 1:14:32
  She goes off and does stuff on her own and can have
• 1:14:36
  conversations with the doctor as an equal.
• 1:14:40
  And yeah, I love this. I think she's great.
• 1:14:43
  Do you think sorry you could have stepped from six to seven
• 1:14:47
  obviously like she had a scientific brain.
• 1:14:51
  Because it was there was Mutual wasn't there one point the when
• 1:14:54
  he probably could possibly stay on.
• 1:14:57
  Oh, well, I wonder how that would work out because I think
• 1:15:00
  they chose to leave in the end. Didn't they but you you don't
• 1:15:06
  know whether if they said oh, well, we actually not going to
• 1:15:09
  leave whether I think it kind of needs the Clean Sweep for the
• 1:15:13
  Exile story to work. Really?
• 1:15:17
  What are the doctor to 20th century Earth what terroristic
• 1:15:20
  says about the companion or about Caroline?
• 1:15:23
  John is you know, she's a good meaty role, you know, I think
• 1:15:26
  it's found in a basketball or something like that gave her
• 1:15:28
  like a good acting wrong one of the classic cereals.
• 1:15:33
  But then that rather suggests that the companion can't be a
• 1:15:37
  good meaty role and I think she is giving that this season.
• 1:15:42
  Yeah, yeah. I you know, I can see where
• 1:15:48
  they're coming from. I think they probably wanted to
• 1:15:49
  make their job a lot easier which you know in the certain
• 1:15:52
  certain if if the companions doing different things from what
• 1:15:56
  the doctor is doing that means you could get two different
• 1:15:58
  standards of your story going at the same time if what the
• 1:16:02
  companion and the doctor can do is interchangeable that is
• 1:16:04
  slightly harder and having somebody like Joe who is Joe is
• 1:16:09
  stupid, but she is a bit of a klutz and she she doesn't have
• 1:16:15
  the intellectual knowledge and the scientific knowledge that
• 1:16:19
  this has although she is an escapologist and can do that in
• 1:16:23
  the way. We forget that about Joe.
• 1:16:25
  Sometimes that actually she's supposed to be sort of she's
• 1:16:28
  supposed to be James Bondi, so she's not remotely but But like,
• 1:16:35
  you know, you can see the logic of it.
• 1:16:36
  You can see why and again a lot of what happens with Doctor Who
• 1:16:40
  is a matter of expedience you're trying to do the thing writing
• 1:16:44
  Doctor Who is heart establishing a new set of characters for each
• 1:16:47
  news story a Saturday establishing a new world if you
• 1:16:50
  like, even if it's still in 20th century, you just still
• 1:16:53
  establishing a new world because it's a new base.
• 1:16:55
  It's a new set of people or it's a it's a new style of story
• 1:17:00
  because each story has its own. Sort of atmosphere and rules
• 1:17:04
  really that you know, the Demon's has different rules from
• 1:17:08
  colony and space even though they're in the same season.
• 1:17:11
  The rules of the storytelling are are different.
• 1:17:13
  The atmosphere is different. So you have to establish all of
• 1:17:16
  those things. You want your basic ingredients?
• 1:17:21
  To kind of write themselves really because otherwise you've
• 1:17:24
  got another thing that you're having to take care of. because
• 1:17:30
  I think one of the things that's underestimated about Doctor Who?
• 1:17:34
  Is how hard it is to do it well and how lucky we are.
• 1:17:39
  That it's invariably done. Well because it's really hard to
• 1:17:44
  write a science fiction story. from scratch You know with the
• 1:17:51
  same core characters and and and shake that up every four to six
• 1:17:56
  weeks. I have to establish a whole new
• 1:17:58
  set of Eric's award who said like, you know, he kept getting
• 1:18:02
  him writers and they just couldn't do it like respected
• 1:18:06
  writers, you know, PJ Hammond for goodness sakes, you know,
• 1:18:12
  Yes, I was having this conversation with somebody the
• 1:18:14
  other day when they were talking about.
• 1:18:15
  You know, who who should you get in to Who Would you like them to
• 1:18:19
  get in to write for Doctor Who and you go well?
• 1:18:22
  Oh, what do you think somebody? You know, I remember being so
• 1:18:24
  excited when Stephen Fry and Paul Abbott and Simon Nye his
• 1:18:29
  scripted debt get made Richard courtesy script did get made but
• 1:18:33
  I believe that you know, there was probably quite a lot of
• 1:18:36
  rewriting weather. And you said these these These
• 1:18:39
  are unquestionably amazing writers, but I think actually
• 1:18:43
  who you want is that person that's a brilliant.
• 1:18:45
  Stephen freeze didn't work. Paul.
• 1:18:47
  Abbotts didn't work. I think you want that person
• 1:18:50
  from casualty. That's that's that knows the
• 1:18:53
  nuts and bolts of getting a practical television script on
• 1:18:56
  but is bored of writing. Oh I get some Cowboy to mend the
• 1:19:01
  roof when I could do it myself. You've never loved me anyway dad
• 1:19:04
  and then thoughts off the roof and then learns I do actually
• 1:19:09
  love you. I just didn't know how to
• 1:19:10
  express it. But now I can that you've got a
• 1:19:12
  roof tile impaled up Jackie and it has to be removed.
• 1:19:16
  But but he that's every episode of casualty isn't it?
• 1:19:26
  But I think you want somebody who can do the nuts and bolts of
• 1:19:30
  television and then sort of break out and go and now I can
• 1:19:33
  use I can I can use all of that experience and practical
• 1:19:37
  savviness and have fun with the jokes that I can do fun with the
• 1:19:43
  scares that I can do and and introduce aliens of things that
• 1:19:49
  I can make up the rules for and that's why I think Robert Holmes
• 1:19:51
  is for me the best classic series who writer because he's a
• 1:19:56
  great nuts and bolts writer, but who who speaks the language of
• 1:20:01
  Doctor Who the humor and the horror and intertwines them
• 1:20:04
  both. So so well, it's funny.
• 1:20:06
  I think sometimes you can look too hard.
• 1:20:10
  So I went straight to terrorists when you said that because you
• 1:20:12
  say I straight off so he saw a Crossroads and he definitely
• 1:20:16
  understood the nuts and bolts of telling us good story.
• 1:20:20
  He could do the scares. He could do the humor and he
• 1:20:23
  could do it at a pace as well. There's you know easy to forget
• 1:20:27
  what a lick. He's going out being made out
• 1:20:29
  and broadcast. Absolutely.
• 1:20:33
  Now this actor here Gordon Richardson.
• 1:20:35
  He was one of your lot Joe. He was a friend of Quentin
• 1:20:38
  crisp. Oh and yes was quite a famous.
• 1:20:41
  Famously. Camp Entertainer was Gordon
• 1:20:45
  Richardson who would have great big parties at his house, you
• 1:20:50
  know. But he doesn't last longer this.
• 1:20:57
  And that's Nancy Jackson who was Bernadette's wife.
• 1:21:01
  So there we go. It's not often you get this.
• 1:21:04
  Oh and let's not forget the Dow oh my words.
• 1:21:09
  Look who's here? Ah, love him.
• 1:21:14
  Absolutely love it. I think he's greater this as
• 1:21:16
  well. I mean every time I think of
• 1:21:18
  Paul Darrow, it's not Blake 7. I think oh, I just think of save
• 1:21:21
  your breath for the time lash doctor.
• 1:21:25
  Does somebody has put up a clip that keeps being retweeted of
• 1:21:30
  him on Twitter? And is it includer or who done
• 1:21:33
  it or something where it comes on?
• 1:21:34
  It goes my wife has been murdered and it's a it's I mean,
• 1:21:40
  it's Darrow to the max. It's Darrow turned up to 11 and
• 1:21:44
  it's Glory yes, then they were asking right now the people feel
• 1:21:51
  this and put it underneath and I watched pretty much every one.
• 1:21:54
  Well, nobody could bestow. I was a pure ham.
• 1:22:02
  He had it. I love it.
• 1:22:04
  I love it. I and but the sad thing is
• 1:22:07
  because he enjoys that kind of acting.
• 1:22:11
  It's easy to then go. Oh, he was like that all the
• 1:22:14
  time, but there are some points in Blake 7 where he does?
• 1:22:19
  nothing And there's so much going on underneath and I
• 1:22:25
  remember when I was chatting to Clive merrison, he described
• 1:22:28
  himself. He said I've always been quite
• 1:22:30
  Vivid and I love that description of an actor being
• 1:22:33
  Vivid, but that doesn't but but I I like to watch.
• 1:22:39
  Performance is that are that that have vivid vividity
• 1:22:43
  vividity and and and have a lot of color but I don't I I don't
• 1:22:48
  necessarily. Think that that always means
• 1:22:51
  unbelievable in the same way that Shakespearean acting is
• 1:22:54
  quite Vivid, but it's dealing with great metaphysical
• 1:22:57
  properties and it's dealing with more than being I woke up this
• 1:23:01
  morning and I was a bit sad, it's I woke up this morning and
• 1:23:05
  the very core of my soul has been rented under by cruel fate
• 1:23:08
  and that requires a bit more vividness Vivid.
• 1:23:13
  Yeah vividness that's easy to say, but it doesn't mean it's
• 1:23:16
  not true just because it's big it doesn't mean there's no truth
• 1:23:19
  to it. And so I quite like those sort
• 1:23:22
  of larger performance is because so long as that the emotion
• 1:23:26
  behind it is truthful you can or or it's an actor having a lot of
• 1:23:32
  fun and being entertaining you're off to two very different
• 1:23:37
  things. But I think sometimes Darrow in
• 1:23:39
  Blake 7 is is so brilliant and inscrutable, but because he
• 1:23:43
  actually it's so large mentally, you know, there's you get real
• 1:23:48
  meat from it. I love it.
• 1:23:49
  Sometimes the controls is what makes it work as well because
• 1:23:53
  one of my favorite episodes blank 7 is all beer and you've
• 1:23:57
  got Darrow there with John saberton and their camping up to
• 1:24:01
  the High Heavens. Somewhere in the rafters, but
• 1:24:05
  then later in the episode. You've got him hunting Villa
• 1:24:08
  through the shuttle. And it is absolutely terrifying.
• 1:24:15
  I I remember it from from when it was first broadcast.
• 1:24:20
  I remember it from my youth. Yeah, and it was and and does he
• 1:24:25
  say we need to get rid of another 70 kilos or something
• 1:24:28
  and always 7 billion ways. But I remember. the Kapoor name
• 1:24:38
  and I was kind no we're not going here surely not with the
• 1:24:41
  regulars. Oh great stuff.
• 1:24:44
  Yeah, what is it quickly talk about Tim Kuhn.
• 1:24:51
  Yeah, because he wasn't around for long.
• 1:24:53
  I think he directed Two smashing stories.
• 1:24:56
  But in this episode alone, we've had a couple of unusual choices
• 1:25:01
  that brilliant POV shot of the silurian going and I don't think
• 1:25:07
  yeah a lot of that beforehand or not that I can recall not really
• 1:25:12
  the fact that we've had shots through the Dalek.
• 1:25:14
  I stalk as early as the first Alex story, but but but not that
• 1:25:20
  many but know that that somebody who knows about science said to
• 1:25:26
  me. Yeah, that's not how they see
• 1:25:28
  and I was like you can know too much sometimes I think it's
• 1:25:31
  fine. It has a sense of sort of
• 1:25:33
  immediacy and drama about it. You know, you're seeing Through
• 1:25:36
  The Eyes of the Wounded lyrics I think we just had a sequence
• 1:25:39
  there a second ago. Where is it Squires Farm?
• 1:25:45
  Yeah, and and there's a fade in to the morning and then sort of
• 1:25:51
  establishment of the Fontana. Do we ever really have much of
• 1:25:54
  that? I was doing unusual things.
• 1:25:58
  He is and I love all of this stuff on film and I just I just
• 1:26:01
  love having a doctor whose story set in front of a load of Bales
• 1:26:04
  say hey, I don't know it just feels sort of fresh and real and
• 1:26:07
  interesting and yes that morning and they even have the music
• 1:26:11
  sort of has the it's sort of quite bird like the music, isn't
• 1:26:14
  it? It's like we're all up with the
• 1:26:16
  Lark kind of thing. But we still haven't seen the
• 1:26:18
  silurian and we were talking when the silurian emerged from
• 1:26:21
  the cave and the sun there was a sudden, you know, the sun
• 1:26:23
  blocked out the picture and you just got the silhouette and
• 1:26:26
  that's all fantastic film camera work all of this stuff off of
• 1:26:32
  this. This would not be so good.
• 1:26:33
  If it was in a in an electronic Studio, but it's beautiful here.
• 1:26:37
  And of course, we've just seen we know up last person that was
• 1:26:40
  seen from this point of view and Claude was that he got killed.
• 1:26:43
  So that's that's a cracking cracking Cliffhanger.
• 1:26:48
  I mean, I think it works better for being on film as we move on.
• 1:26:53
  We have you know Cliffhangers where companies are being Menace
• 1:26:56
  like let's say Lola award in Warriors.
• 1:26:58
  Game as the thorough hand comes towards her this Shaw was just
• 1:27:02
  mold by that question like he'd lost her face.
• 1:27:09
  Here he did and from that gorgeous point of view.
• 1:27:12
  Now again you presume the point of view is partially come
• 1:27:15
  because he's going well. I've got seven episodes.
• 1:27:17
  I'm gonna hold my monster back as long as possible.
• 1:27:20
  But it but it means he gets, you know, very inventive and
• 1:27:24
  creative with it. And and it looks he's he is very
• 1:27:28
  good Tim. He's an excellent director and I
• 1:27:32
  I feel sad that because he overspent on the mind of evil he
• 1:27:38
  was not allowed to return and I know he felt very sad about that
• 1:27:41
  as well because I think he is he would be he would be far better
• 1:27:47
  remembered as a director. I think if he'd done more than
• 1:27:51
  the two stories because you know everyone well, I think anyone
• 1:27:54
  that he said Love's Michael Ferguson and he only did four
• 1:27:57
  stories and I think Mike Michael is rightly seen as one of the
• 1:28:02
  the a list Doctor Who directors and I think I think I'd like to
• 1:28:06
  have seen, you know, if I can imagine if Tim had done some of
• 1:28:11
  some of those latest stories we might be thinking the same about
• 1:28:15
  him as well. I think he's afraid of the scale
• 1:28:18
  of Oliver of the two stories that he's telling and yes a lot
• 1:28:22
  happening in the silur show. Well, we head into you know play
• 1:28:26
  city later on and then in the morning of evil, you know, we're
• 1:28:30
  gonna scale the walls of a prison in yeah, he's faces.
• 1:28:37
  It's it's big stuff. It's big ambitious stuff.
• 1:28:41
  He's good at the hardware. He's good at making it look like
• 1:28:44
  you know, like it feel like, you know a tough action adventure
• 1:28:49
  and it's fine to do that because you've got you've got you know
• 1:28:52
  the jokes and but we being a Dandy and that all helps to
• 1:28:56
  alluded to make it a bit more Doctor Who he although, you
• 1:29:00
  know, I do I have some sympathy with Terrance dicks who says
• 1:29:02
  that season 7 isn't Doctor Who because it doesn't have quite
• 1:29:05
  enough of the Fantastical within it he feels it's a bit too close
• 1:29:10
  to creative and I I I have some sympathy with that but I I do
• 1:29:17
  for me season 7 is my is probably my favorite chunk of
• 1:29:22
  per week. There is a intriguing coupling
• 1:29:26
  made in the spirit from space common tree with terrorists and
• 1:29:31
  Derek show with sticks finally gets to take Derek show in to
• 1:29:36
  task for one stranding on earth. And for two Lumber in with
• 1:29:40
  second part of this. Have you heard that?
• 1:29:44
  I I I you know, what? I that was one.
• 1:29:47
  I I stopped listening to and I don't think I've ever picked
• 1:29:52
  back up on because I know they hope to have Derek Martinez on
• 1:29:56
  that. And it didn't work out because
• 1:29:59
  sadly Derek Martinez was not was not well, which is a which is a
• 1:30:05
  real shame. But I know there was no love
• 1:30:08
  lost between in really, you know, the I'm sure they were
• 1:30:11
  very professional there, but I know that Terence.
• 1:30:14
  Was not a great fan of Derek showing for sure.
• 1:30:17
  I think they had. You know, I think the working
• 1:30:22
  methods were worse like it different shall we say possibly
• 1:30:27
  with Derek show in another assignment of barrettes coming
• 1:30:32
  in maybe that was best all round.
• 1:30:35
  Oh, I think so. And of course, it creates the
• 1:30:38
  magic Partnership of Terence Dixon Barry.
• 1:30:41
  Let's switch one of the great Doctor Who double acts, you
• 1:30:44
  know? and and I love the fact that you
• 1:30:48
  know, they remained friends and you know, I can't think of one
• 1:30:52
  without the other really and I adore and I adore them both, you
• 1:30:58
  know marvelous marvelous fellas. if the Doctor Who commentary
• 1:31:43
  Puck cost and I have to count myself in this that's a thing.
• 1:31:48
  I have to say with the Glorious. Toby hater.
• 1:31:52
  Say hello, Toby. Hello, and to the list.
• 1:31:56
  It's it's a thing isn't it that you have to do this several
• 1:31:59
  times what nickname because of these episodes do not go out
• 1:32:02
  together. Yes indeed.
• 1:32:05
  Um, yes. Yes we yes it's odd because
• 1:32:08
  we're yes, we we do the same thing over and over again during
• 1:32:11
  the same conversation because it's broken up when it goes it's
• 1:32:15
  not live. I'm afraid everybody.
• 1:32:16
  We it's the opposite of doctor on UK gold.
• 1:32:21
  We we make it as an Omnibus and then we split it into episodes.
• 1:32:24
  It's also not edited as well. That's the trouble with a
• 1:32:27
  commentary. Is that what you say goes in
• 1:32:29
  just in case some bugger actually, what is it alongside
• 1:32:32
  the the material and to be I want to say two words you and I
• 1:32:38
  want to hear what sort of a reaction I get. carry Bliss it
• 1:32:46
  sounds like a robot is making music out of you know when you
• 1:32:52
  used to. Push it two blades of grass next
• 1:32:56
  to all the background noise. It's like a robot's decided to
• 1:33:03
  do that. I do like Doctor Who
• 1:33:06
  discontinuity guide description of it as a synthesized because
• 1:33:09
  who synthesized kazoo which is is also a pretty good a pretty
• 1:33:17
  good. It's yeah, it's like it's it's
• 1:33:20
  yeah, it's it's it's sort of like a Comb being played by
• 1:33:25
  static electricity. It's a bizarre.
• 1:33:27
  It's it is a it's a crumb horn, isn't it?
• 1:33:30
  Actually not that that particularly the actually is the
• 1:33:39
  one that we think of but there are lots of other different
• 1:33:42
  sound motifs that I think get overshadowed by by that one like
• 1:33:46
  the drip it the cave noise the dripping cave sort of Atmos
• 1:33:51
  music I think is is very evocative and the farm the farm
• 1:33:57
  I waking up in the morning is you know does exactly what it
• 1:34:00
  needs to do sort of totally. I like the fact that one I think
• 1:34:08
  one of the strengths of Doctor Who is that it is not a uniform
• 1:34:13
  program and that a different director could come in a
• 1:34:18
  different writer can come in and a different designer different
• 1:34:22
  costume designer. Different musician and one or
• 1:34:26
  all of those might suddenly make a left field choice that gives
• 1:34:30
  us a story a particular thing that as a fan when you're then
• 1:34:34
  coming into it as a collector whose going back over the
• 1:34:37
  history of the show. Would you've got your idea of
• 1:34:39
  what doctor who looks sounds like and then you each
• 1:34:42
  individual story has a thing about it that you could not
• 1:34:45
  possibly have anticipated and I don't think I could possibly
• 1:34:48
  anticipate it. that that you know that the salarians would be
• 1:34:56
  accompanied by the noise of Pop being rogered buy a lawnmower
• 1:35:01
  which is kind of the few six sort of sounds like slightly,
• 1:35:05
  you know that the clangers having an asthma attack or
• 1:35:11
  whatever it is that that carry blight is doing but I I think I
• 1:35:19
  think Doctor Who is the show that you can go?
• 1:35:21
  Well, let's see what let's see it.
• 1:35:24
  Let's see if this works and I I kind of like his music for the
• 1:35:29
  silurians better than I like his I think his music his is it an
• 1:35:33
  oboe or a parrot in a death to the Daleks seems to me to rob
• 1:35:38
  the Daleks of any Menace they might have I think that's the
• 1:35:42
  worst way to score. The Daleks is to score them in
• 1:35:45
  this slightly. Just comical moochie way and we
• 1:35:51
  know that his music was slightly changed a bit further for
• 1:35:55
  revenge or that that's got some nice bits in it.
• 1:35:57
  But I I know you said two words and I just said about 150
• 1:36:02
  million. I'm sorry, but I said I I quite
• 1:36:07
  like I I like Carrie Blackman's music probably more in principle
• 1:36:13
  than in practice. But I also wouldn't have it.
• 1:36:15
  Any other way. I've got several things that
• 1:36:18
  were one thing. I'll just say about this to The
• 1:36:20
  Dales. Okay, ask all that VHS and
• 1:36:22
  played it and 100 times over when I was a Nipper.
• 1:36:27
  So you could tell me to your blue in the face of that's
• 1:36:29
  terrible music I can harm every part of it and I'll still think
• 1:36:33
  it's not. Oh objectively it's terrible but
• 1:36:39
  it's so synonymous with my first watch of that.
• 1:36:42
  Like I just it's it's you know, my brain tells me it's like
• 1:36:46
  never forget your first watch you never do so Tim has a
• 1:36:54
  wonderful story of carry blinding him up in the dead of
• 1:36:58
  night and going I've got this I've got the sound for the
• 1:37:02
  silurians and then playing that extraordinary noise down the
• 1:37:06
  fire and Tim just goes. Oh, we'll talk about it in the
• 1:37:10
  morning. So apparently he's giving us a
• 1:37:12
  lot of fall, you know, because he's playing an old instrument,
• 1:37:16
  isn't it? That's why it sounds so that
• 1:37:17
  that's right. It's it's not just come out of
• 1:37:20
  nowhere. He's using the instrumentation
• 1:37:22
  that is most like what cave people might have played on
• 1:37:26
  early music, you know, so he's he's had some kind of You know
• 1:37:31
  Thoughts with it. It's it's not just happened in a
• 1:37:35
  sort of vacuum that he's filled with crazy noise.
• 1:37:39
  It's you know, he's he's reached the choice of instruments
• 1:37:44
  through intellectual means I would argue that that's not
• 1:37:48
  always the best idea but nonetheless you can't fault is
• 1:37:51
  you can't fault the ideology behind it.
• 1:37:54
  But you know, it's weird and weird when I was younger was a
• 1:37:58
  bit spooky so I couldn't it's like my clock score for the sea
• 1:38:02
  level. I couldn't quite get a handle on
• 1:38:03
  it. So that freaked me out of it
• 1:38:06
  when I was watching it. Well for me Malcolm Clarke can
• 1:38:10
  see Devil's slightly different because I had Doctor Who the
• 1:38:13
  music the vinyl record release and I remember getting that and
• 1:38:19
  of course this was when you couldn't get episodes.
• 1:38:20
  So listening to the music was a bit like an arm.
• 1:38:23
  I'm sort of touching the episode itself.
• 1:38:25
  And I remember playing that I got an old record player that I
• 1:38:29
  bought from a 50/50 auction for like two pounds and I and it had
• 1:38:35
  four different speeds on it 1633 45 and 708 and I assumed I was
• 1:38:41
  playing at the wrong speed because it was this you know
• 1:38:44
  that what is that? That that's I mean we have some
• 1:38:52
  foxes outside who are desperate need of a safe word.
• 1:38:56
  But I mean, it's it's not it's not unlike the noise that maybe
• 1:39:01
  it would be an electronic fox in a blender.
• 1:39:04
  But whatever it is that foxes get up to at midnight and make
• 1:39:07
  some quite alarming sort of noises And so I remember
• 1:39:13
  listening to Malcolm Clarke's famous sea Devils sweet and just
• 1:39:18
  going this is not what I expected at.
• 1:39:21
  All that is not music and then seeing the sea Devils afterwards
• 1:39:25
  and going. Oh, okay.
• 1:39:26
  It fits within the story actually quite nice to go.
• 1:39:29
  Oh it's that bit is here and I can and it works much better as
• 1:39:33
  a piece of incidental music than it does something to dance to in
• 1:39:36
  your bedroom, but that's a lesson.
• 1:39:38
  I think probably many a doctor who fan has learned red trying
• 1:39:41
  to Funk along to Roger finale. It's not quite the self.
• 1:39:46
  I don't have to say well Pass. I got just one more thing about
• 1:39:58
  married at the brilliant story, but he refuses to name the
• 1:40:02
  composer and I swear his Carrier about.
• 1:40:08
  Somebody who worked on Doctor Who a couple of times that and I
• 1:40:12
  know can't be deadly Simpson because Barry let's take him on
• 1:40:14
  to do all sorts, didn't he? That hounded him after he left
• 1:40:19
  Doctor Who and said, you know use me again use me again you
• 1:40:23
  and he had to finally sort of turn around say no you all sort
• 1:40:26
  of style of music. I don't like please leave me
• 1:40:29
  alone. You know, I swear that must be
• 1:40:32
  carried by I said that must be carried like yeah.
• 1:40:36
  Because he's Barry. Ah, well, I don't admire is
• 1:40:39
  honesty. Yeah, well you have to be
• 1:40:42
  because actually you can get yourself into trouble.
• 1:40:45
  I mean, I I've booked a comedy club for many many years and I
• 1:40:48
  still have to see it and I have actually farmed the booking off
• 1:40:51
  to other people because I was very very bad at saying no to
• 1:40:55
  people I don't booking people that I didn't think were right.
• 1:40:58
  And then I have to work harder as the MC.
• 1:41:03
  Or I'd sort of go. Oh, no phone me again in a week.
• 1:41:06
  I need well probably still hasn't got away a week later.
• 1:41:09
  And you almost you sort of want somebody to just go.
• 1:41:12
  No, but you don't want to be that guy, you know, which is why
• 1:41:15
  I'm not very good at booking things which is why I would be a
• 1:41:18
  very bad producer because to be a producer you have to be now
• 1:41:22
  you does I'm sure Barry let's do it in a way where he wasn't.
• 1:41:26
  Horrible about it because you don't you also you know, this is
• 1:41:30
  quite a cruel business based on rejection.
• 1:41:32
  You don't you don't want to be somebody that makes people
• 1:41:34
  somebody feel bad although of course saying to them.
• 1:41:37
  No, I'm not going to employ you because I don't like what you do
• 1:41:39
  is gonna make them feel bad, but you've got to try and do it in a
• 1:41:43
  way that that is as nice as possible.
• 1:41:46
  But that's really hard. He tried evasion and he tried
• 1:41:49
  attacked so they just had to get the hammer out and be honest
• 1:41:54
  well and also sometimes people don't help themselves.
• 1:41:56
  Don't take the hint and that's when you can get and I have
• 1:41:59
  actually found myself feeling a bit.
• 1:42:02
  So for example when an act comes and does the gig and dies on
• 1:42:05
  their own ass for 205 minutes, they're always the one little
• 1:42:09
  phone you the next morning asking for another gig, you
• 1:42:12
  know, oh, come on read the room. Well, he can't read that's bad
• 1:42:16
  stand up. But but that but then you find
• 1:42:19
  yourself getting a bit and then it's a lot easier to go.
• 1:42:22
  Well, actually no because you kind of you brought this upon
• 1:42:25
  yourself because I know if I have been in your position, I
• 1:42:29
  would have you know, I'd have let the smell go out of the room
• 1:42:32
  before I before I ask somebody to click come and join me in it
• 1:42:36
  again, you know, so you you know, sometimes people leave,
• 1:42:40
  you know choice I'll press play in a second because I'm aware.
• 1:42:46
  We're 10 minutes into this episode now, but I it was an
• 1:42:50
  interesting topic. I'll give the last word to
• 1:42:52
  Marquez then about Carrie Blyton.
• 1:42:55
  Because I think he's a an incredible musician.
• 1:42:59
  The things like that. He loves these experiment at
• 1:43:06
  all. We scores because they are a bit
• 1:43:08
  different from the normal. I think he's like as a Nipper
• 1:43:11
  even really made him pay attention to sound and the sort
• 1:43:15
  of creative uses of it and the sort of weirdness the weird
• 1:43:20
  atmosphere that you can come with it.
• 1:43:21
  And you know, that's not forget. That's what the dogs Who theme
• 1:43:24
  she was doing right back from day one.
• 1:43:27
  Yeah. Yeah, I think it's absolutely
• 1:43:29
  true. And one of the things about
• 1:43:32
  Doctor Who is that it soundscape is so very different for him
• 1:43:36
  everything else. And again, it's one of those
• 1:43:37
  programs where you can afford to throw something in from the film
• 1:43:43
  in a way that you can't with a medical drama or detective
• 1:43:46
  drama. It would be it would be too
• 1:43:47
  distracting. Whereas with Doctor Who you've
• 1:43:49
  kind of got a bit more lice. And that's an another of the
• 1:43:54
  joys of it. And I mean, I love Marie gold.
• 1:43:57
  I think Murray gold is is very very good.
• 1:44:02
  And and you know, I sometimes listen to Marigold soundtracks
• 1:44:05
  when I'm walking through the park.
• 1:44:06
  But okay and sometimes his stuff helps me to really cry.
• 1:44:14
  But I like a lot of modern television where you know, you
• 1:44:19
  have to know you're watching the same program.
• 1:44:21
  It's just what we're expected to do these days.
• 1:44:24
  I I quite like that with Doctor Who you know the week after
• 1:44:30
  doctor in the salarians episode 7, you've got sort of Dudley
• 1:44:36
  Simpson doing the sort of Procol Harum kind of lovely
• 1:44:40
  orchestrated. Melodic Space Music of the
• 1:44:44
  ambassadors of death and that's all got the sort of Dom thumpy
• 1:44:48
  really atmospheric, but quite it's got the unit theme in it as
• 1:44:51
  well. It's quite tuneful and that's
• 1:44:53
  within a week of each other and you suddenly go.
• 1:44:55
  Well, they're they're legitimate scores for Doctor Who but
• 1:44:57
  they're both two, very creative uninteresting people.
• 1:45:01
  Interpreting the brief in a totally different way and I I
• 1:45:04
  love that that you can go. Oh this is this is suddenly I
• 1:45:07
  don't know what to expect now because it's different.
• 1:45:10
  With that that's scores one of my favorites, you know, oh, it's
• 1:45:14
  great. It's great so that well, it's
• 1:45:18
  weird. Ambient.
• 1:45:19
  Sounds doesn't it? Yeah, we're approach.
• 1:45:23
  Well, I'll tell you what, this is I'm watching with the mute
• 1:45:25
  button on should we watch dogs here in the silurians and I
• 1:45:28
  won't listen to the score. Okie dokie, I've actually I can
• 1:45:33
  actually hear the music but only just because my speaker is far
• 1:45:37
  away Google right? Would you like to count as in?
• 1:45:41
  Well, let us start watching Doctor Who are the silurians
• 1:45:44
  episode 3 in 3. 2 1 You know what?
• 1:45:51
  I've asked you that question after we press play. you be yeah
• 1:45:55
  halfway to bed but now when you Yeah, well, there we go.
• 1:46:01
  Sorry, I do I do go on I wouldn't interrupt you for a
• 1:46:05
  second. What I think probably you should
• 1:46:09
  sometime there. We are Doctor Who and the
• 1:46:12
  silurians which of course he goes to Great pains to explain
• 1:46:19
  why they shouldn't have been called silurians when we get the
• 1:46:22
  sea devils and then Dr. Just ignores the rest time anyway, he
• 1:46:26
  was I think it's I think it's Hulk making amends, right?
• 1:46:34
  Yeah, but but then the show the show just ignores that anyway,
• 1:46:38
  so Laura silurians is a great name.
• 1:46:40
  It's fantastic. It's not the ice water, isn't
• 1:46:43
  it? Is they've been labeled and
• 1:46:44
  that's it. That's them.
• 1:46:46
  Yeah. I really and even the cedar
• 1:46:50
  devils. that's just terribly racist and say Well sea Devils.
• 1:46:57
  Yeah. Well and yeah there.
• 1:47:02
  You know their name but their name by Declan Mulholland aren't
• 1:47:05
  there right by the Jabba the Hutt in an orange jumper because
• 1:47:08
  I see devils are that that's what everybody knows the Mars,
• 1:47:11
  please so I can I just say that I visited Lee's Castle this week
• 1:47:16
  and did a fine decimal holiday impression as I was attempting
• 1:47:20
  to wrestle with the door. Do you know I rather like about
• 1:47:30
  this era as well is that you get people living in Cottages things
• 1:47:35
  like that. There's a real there's a real
• 1:47:38
  feeling of plausibility behind behind this and there's a great
• 1:47:41
  line that It doesn't Dr. Lauren say something like you know is
• 1:47:46
  in that Cottage writing that book of his, you know, I've just
• 1:47:49
  as a sort of life that these people have and this reminds me
• 1:47:53
  of the sort of houses that red I grew up in the middle of the
• 1:47:55
  countryside in the middle of nowhere.
• 1:47:57
  So this reminds me very much of the sort of houses that were
• 1:48:00
  around the area that I grew up in so and it's such a good set
• 1:48:03
  that I can I can kind of feel what the air would have felt
• 1:48:07
  like I can smell that room. I know exactly what that's like
• 1:48:10
  and it and it speaks to me there for of everybody having a life
• 1:48:14
  outside of Doctor Who and I always think that out of the
• 1:48:18
  drama and I always think that's that's good righting anyway and
• 1:48:21
  good everything else. But particularly in Doctor Who
• 1:48:24
  because Doctor Who has such so many obstacles of ridiculousness
• 1:48:28
  to overcome. If you're a mind to be held by
• 1:48:32
  by the Ridiculousness of the central concept and what is
• 1:48:36
  needed for the stories. I think anything that Roots it.
• 1:48:40
  In a reality that's recognizable.
• 1:48:42
  Well, it not only helps with the with the contrast between the
• 1:48:47
  everyday and the alien but it also it it so that that
• 1:48:53
  dissonance between you know, plausible reality and you know,
• 1:48:56
  great imaginative Spooks and scares but it also helps to
• 1:49:01
  Route the Fantastical within the recognizable and that I always
• 1:49:05
  think helps Doctor Who and we've just had a beautiful bit where
• 1:49:08
  they thought it was an alien and it was a chicken and they all
• 1:49:11
  laugh at the cliche and that was rather nice too.
• 1:49:13
  That's why it makes the Cliffhanger this episode really
• 1:49:18
  scary for kids because it's the monster coming tearing and she
• 1:49:22
  living room Yeah, yeah. And I think Russell T Davis gets
• 1:49:27
  that as well because I would never forget that moment where
• 1:49:29
  the sight man pushes open the door and then there's the kids
• 1:49:33
  and the parents on the stairs. I'm like, yes, he just gets you
• 1:49:38
  know what it's scary really gets it.
• 1:49:41
  Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say as well in terms of like design I
• 1:49:45
  think 70s doctor who gets cozy living rooms. a spot on you know
• 1:49:53
  Yeah. Yeah, I think one in the stones
• 1:49:57
  of blood, you know, and canine and Company and you know.
• 1:50:01
  But it leans into as well as to why we're on Earth, isn't it?
• 1:50:04
  Because this is all stuff that they probably got lying around
• 1:50:06
  because they, you know, lots of BBC dramas are saying living
• 1:50:09
  rooms. Yes.
• 1:50:13
  But of course, then you have the trouble of you don't want it to
• 1:50:16
  look like everything else. Because although it has to be
• 1:50:20
  grounded in the reality Dr. Also has to You know take you out of
• 1:50:24
  the everyday or otherwise, it just looks like you know do what
• 1:50:27
  your casualty or whatever but with the occasional person
• 1:50:30
  dressed as a lizard in it again, we're we're carry black and kind
• 1:50:34
  of helps because you know, he takes you into a different
• 1:50:37
  direction. It's it's funny.
• 1:50:39
  I I celebrate the fact that this is on film and in front of bales
• 1:50:43
  of hay because it looks realistic and grounded but I
• 1:50:47
  also celebrate the fact that it's mad and fantastic and crazy
• 1:50:51
  as well. And it's it's getting the
• 1:50:52
  balance right that really I think is what makes the best
• 1:50:57
  Doctor Who work is when it when it balances the disparate things
• 1:51:02
  that it has to nail. I always into an unusual set of
• 1:51:07
  things that it has to nail doctor.
• 1:51:08
  I won't tell you where and I won't tell you what that does to
• 1:51:12
  one of my choices, you know for one of the episodes of happy
• 1:51:17
  songs in place as well done. Oh really further than that, but
• 1:51:21
  that's sort of juxtaposition of the extraordinary and the
• 1:51:24
  ordinary. I mean you can do that.
• 1:51:26
  Yeah, it's amazing season 7. Yes.
• 1:51:31
  Yes, and I I just remember. On this this small and stuff is
• 1:51:38
  really shot and you know the music here.
• 1:51:41
  It's like the flares and the helicopter.
• 1:51:43
  Boom. Yeah, it's quite it's quite
• 1:51:45
  jolly. It's it's something that it's
• 1:51:50
  something that old stuff seems to do with military stuff.
• 1:51:54
  Is is it always has a sort of Jolly pop up about it?
• 1:51:57
  Even The Invasion which has that grinding metallic clanging score
• 1:52:02
  that unit theme is all oh which only soldiers who do and you
• 1:52:07
  wouldn't do that now, but the seems to be soldiering is is
• 1:52:11
  much more tied up with the sort of trooping of the colour kind
• 1:52:16
  of Ida that is with people in fatigues and action and you
• 1:52:21
  know, if you want to be a man join the we you know, I think
• 1:52:24
  now we present the Army in the military as with sort of
• 1:52:29
  something action sweat harness whereas and it's not just Doctor
• 1:52:35
  Who that does this if you watch old a lot of old films that
• 1:52:38
  yeah, the the sort of Pomp and ceremony of the army infests the
• 1:52:46
  way that they are soundtrack which I think is slightly
• 1:52:49
  unusual to a modern viewer. And it never quite works for me
• 1:52:54
  because it seems slightly old fashioned.
• 1:52:58
  I don't see soldiers as you know, as to get the best
• 1:53:01
  dramatically out of soldiers. I don't think of the being Jolly
• 1:53:06
  I think of them as being hard and capable and fighting and
• 1:53:09
  it's dangerous, you know. Saying that I'm a lovely officer
• 1:53:14
  mom sort of thing the unit fee for a death wishes.
• 1:53:19
  Very outbeat. It's glorious.
• 1:53:23
  That is that is a great theme and I I loved when I know
• 1:53:26
  noticed that it was the same theme in the mind of evil, but
• 1:53:29
  it had been done electronically because it's the same piece of
• 1:53:32
  music but it's it's done on different instruments all for a
• 1:53:37
  cover version. It's it's it's it's almost like
• 1:53:41
  they've done for the ambassadors of death.
• 1:53:43
  They've done the mind of evil version in the Life loud.
• 1:53:45
  You know, that's what it feels. Like.
• 1:53:47
  I know I keep pointing out, but it's a Direction but there's a
• 1:53:53
  POV shot from the helicopter sweeping up more and I love
• 1:53:59
  those who does this it's very rare.
• 1:54:02
  There's a short similar in enemy the world episode 1 when the
• 1:54:06
  helicopters pulling away and you get a fabulous shot.
• 1:54:09
  Yes as it's going further and very well a few shots.
• 1:54:12
  Actually. I think they might have been
• 1:54:14
  stock shots in invasion of the dinosaurs.
• 1:54:18
  Of they are stock shots invasion of dinosaurs.
• 1:54:20
  But yeah, yes. Yes, but it's just something you
• 1:54:23
  don't normally see on a show like Doctor Who has you know, a
• 1:54:28
  very small absolutely object which makes it stand out the
• 1:54:31
  more when you know, you have something as impressive as that.
• 1:54:35
  I just think this this absolutely really impressive
• 1:54:38
  visuals in this. yeah, the the and you know, none of this is
• 1:54:43
  you know, this is none of this is really vital storytelling of
• 1:54:47
  basically, we've spotted one of the monsters and you know, they
• 1:54:51
  don't end up catching him but but it's so well staged and it's
• 1:54:57
  so so compellingly told that it's it, you know this this
• 1:55:05
  stands up as a really Entertaining and Atmospheric and
• 1:55:10
  its atmospheric even though it's on wide open Moreland which
• 1:55:13
  seems character intuitive, but it just seems to work and all
• 1:55:17
  the hardware on this display is absolutely extraordinary.
• 1:55:20
  I think it's fabulous, but all and during the day as well.
• 1:55:26
  Yeah. Yeah, but it's great.
• 1:55:28
  Yeah, I can I can smell the air. I can feel the cold.
• 1:55:32
  Yes of this cell that Heather are we supposed to think Dr.
• 1:55:37
  Quinn is a bad man. Well again, that's why I quite
• 1:55:44
  like Fulton McKay's playing of it.
• 1:55:46
  I know that we didn't see eye-to-eye with Makai because I
• 1:55:51
  believe Fulton would sort of pull focus a little bit with
• 1:55:54
  with where he would where he would stand up stage.
• 1:55:57
  You know, I was talking to I was talking to somebody the other
• 1:56:00
  day he was talking about working with.
• 1:56:04
  An actor as a young actor and people hated it because you just
• 1:56:08
  had your back to the you had your you know, they would act up
• 1:56:12
  stage and everybody else had to turn to face them.
• 1:56:14
  So, you know you as a young actor everybody just saw your
• 1:56:17
  back, you know and actors could sort of do that.
• 1:56:19
  They can you can pull Focus if you want to it's quite easy to
• 1:56:22
  do if you're if you're paralon Jones says in the commentary she
• 1:56:27
  goes all to be okay would be like, okay John if you just
• 1:56:30
  found this side of me here Caroline, if you could just
• 1:56:33
  stand this side of me here and she's like we know what he was
• 1:56:36
  up to. He was literally exactly what
• 1:56:38
  you were saying there like, right Which which you know, I
• 1:56:47
  can kind of look at with sort of ruthful admiration from here.
• 1:56:51
  But if I was there I'd be furious, you know, so, you know,
• 1:56:55
  it's it's a bit. I've just watched Nolly, you
• 1:56:57
  know and oh, it's great fun watching Noel Gourdin being
• 1:57:00
  this, you know commanding battle axe because it's oh, isn't it
• 1:57:03
  Jolly fun that you go? Yeah, except except actually
• 1:57:06
  unless you're there in which case it's a giant pain in the
• 1:57:09
  ass. If you're not say she is a bitch
• 1:57:13
  exactly. Um, but yeah, like, you know,
• 1:57:17
  he's after scientific secrets of the sign lyrics I don't think
• 1:57:22
  he's painted on sympathetically. in this no.
• 1:57:29
  No, he he's a little bit. Just you know, he has he's a
• 1:57:36
  couple of bits isn't with the Miss Dawson when he says, you
• 1:57:39
  know, the the power eyes the knowledge I shall gain is worth
• 1:57:42
  any risk and he's one of those I mean dots Doctor Who?
• 1:57:48
  Always has that. Sort of two-way conversation
• 1:57:52
  with science doesn't it? You know science is has been the
• 1:57:55
  key to all the great breakthroughs in Doctor Who but
• 1:57:58
  also science always also comes with a warning and I've just
• 1:58:02
  listened to you guys talking brilliantly about planets of
• 1:58:06
  evil and that that wonderful line of you know, we But we we
• 1:58:13
  buy the cost of our experimentation our right to
• 1:58:15
  experiment at the cost of total responsibility and when you're
• 1:58:20
  writing about you know, scientific breakthroughs.
• 1:58:22
  Well, we know that scientific breakthroughs have been
• 1:58:25
  responsible that have been pursued with great zealousness
• 1:58:29
  our responsible for Vital and important breakthroughs and
• 1:58:33
  needs that kind of commitment and that is its military or
• 1:58:37
  sellers. I don't know we'll have both but
• 1:58:39
  if the science is wrong or it's bad that zealousness then
• 1:58:44
  becomes Misguided further so but you don't know that until you've
• 1:58:51
  made the Breakthrough, you know who you know.
• 1:58:58
  You know when when the atom was first broken or whatever, you
• 1:59:02
  know, that was a an amazing, but it but it does open up the the
• 1:59:05
  possibilities to do terrible terrible terrible things.
• 1:59:08
  And that's the constant argument the Doctor Who has with itself
• 1:59:11
  all those Um this sequence here, I love this style of acting
• 1:59:16
  where you know, everything's got double meaning he's coming in
• 1:59:19
  all polite. He's there absolutely but you
• 1:59:24
  must entirely with Fulton McKay here some, you know arrogant
• 1:59:29
  also came stomping into my house. play about with the
• 1:59:32
  thermometer because there's a brilliant episode of The X-Files
• 1:59:37
  isn't that which is shown from the monsters point of view and
• 1:59:40
  murder and Scully are sort of really annoying.
• 1:59:44
  I can't remember what the monster is just a guy he's a guy
• 1:59:46
  that eats people or whatever, but I'll just knocking on like
• 1:59:50
  serious seven series seven. It's called hungry and it's
• 1:59:54
  fabulous. That's just really like
• 1:59:58
  irritated pair of Colombo is right and that sort of what
• 2:00:02
  they're doing here is that and the doctor sort of knows he's
• 2:00:05
  being annoying which is also quite funny, but it's very good
• 2:00:09
  at this sort of stuff. I love the walls in this in this
• 2:00:12
  the white walls with the slight cracks in them.
• 2:00:17
  What's terrific is he said? Yeah, yeah, he plays it sort of
• 2:00:22
  Falafel and then he just drops it and goes, you know, you save
• 2:00:25
  yourself a lot of time. You just tell me the truth.
• 2:00:28
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, oh that they didn't catch
• 2:00:31
  it. You know, which I like as well.
• 2:00:32
  But then then when you think it's over he's then he's looking
• 2:00:35
  through the window. He's a little camper weird time.
• 2:00:43
  That's great. He's he's fabulous.
• 2:00:47
  He's fabulous. But what is when Dr. Quinn die,
• 2:00:54
  I think he's deaf. There's a moment of Pathos and
• 2:00:57
  we see Ms. Dawson's reaction to that which is pure horror and
• 2:01:02
  then obviously that pushes the plot because then suddenly we're
• 2:01:04
  saying no these things are dangerous.
• 2:01:06
  They've got to be destroyed. Yes. well, and that's that's
• 2:01:13
  Twisted as well, which and it almost because of the we kind of
• 2:01:20
  learn that its killed Quinn because he was he was he was
• 2:01:25
  demanding too much and he was expecting to but we don't quite
• 2:01:28
  see enough of that of him with them, which I suppose leaves
• 2:01:34
  open to interpretation and I think That's a bit later on is
• 2:01:39
  the weather when it looks like the doctors managed to persuade
• 2:01:41
  everybody then Miss Dawson just comes in and goes I've just
• 2:01:44
  found Dr. Quinn. He's dead.
• 2:01:45
  We've got a killer. It's oh damn because the doctor
• 2:01:48
  has no answer to that because he knows that they have so his his
• 2:01:54
  getting everyone to cooperate with the solutions is based on
• 2:01:58
  him giving selective evidence actually because he knows that
• 2:02:01
  if he tells the doctor Quinn's dead, that's not gonna so that
• 2:02:05
  opens up a whole I listen to a podcast.
• 2:02:09
  With somebody the other day who's who's from my sort of
• 2:02:12
  liberal left side, and he was sort of he was advocating the
• 2:02:16
  fact that we you know to get our idea, you know to get to get the
• 2:02:21
  sort of liberal consensus out there.
• 2:02:22
  It doesn't matter if we do it through nefarious means or
• 2:02:26
  dishonest means you go. No, I I don't think you can do
• 2:02:30
  that because that's that's country to actually your
• 2:02:32
  ideology but his point is but if we believe our ideology is
• 2:02:35
  Right, we've got to do that by any means necessary and I'm sort
• 2:02:39
  of like, oh that doesn't that make us them in that way and
• 2:02:42
  that's that's kind of what you're having here.
• 2:02:45
  You're sort of go. Well, I know the doctors right
• 2:02:47
  but to but but to be right he has to be dishonest when the
• 2:02:54
  show goes it doesn't go there very often when it does go
• 2:02:57
  there. I think that's yeah.
• 2:02:59
  Oh more interesting than just black and white Yes, and I have
• 2:03:05
  to say not. You know, no I mean I know I
• 2:03:08
  know dot. Lawrence is you know sort of
• 2:03:12
  generally peeved and she nearly breaks through to her there and
• 2:03:17
  and major Bakersfield, but but every every body in this is
• 2:03:23
  acting Rationally with their own within their own frame of
• 2:03:27
  reference and I think that's great.
• 2:03:29
  You're not having to have somebody being it's very
• 2:03:32
  interesting that Jeffrey Palmer's.
• 2:03:35
  Politician is not like the politicians later in the period
• 2:03:39
  not this year like Walker Walker in the sea Devils where they're
• 2:03:45
  you know buffoons. And he's actually probably more
• 2:03:49
  reasonable than everybody else. Whereas I think a couple of
• 2:03:52
  Seasons later. He would have come in and been
• 2:03:53
  well, I'm not sharing cabinet meetings with a green chap
• 2:03:57
  nobody but you know, I think it's much it to me.
• 2:03:59
  It works much better because everybody here is a say I think
• 2:04:07
  I think they from their own perspective.
• 2:04:12
  They're they're right. They're not being bad.
• 2:04:14
  They're not being Avery is they're not being unkind their
• 2:04:19
  their doing what they think is the right thing to get the best
• 2:04:22
  outcome, but it's something that you said about Rusty Davis is
• 2:04:25
  right before as well. I think Hulk is the same is he
• 2:04:29
  doesn't condemn those people even if they've got different
• 2:04:32
  ideologies. To him, you know and that's
• 2:04:37
  really interesting. I think yeah.
• 2:04:40
  So cool. It's having sympathy for people
• 2:04:43
  even if you think they're wrong. I mean, I think that needs to
• 2:04:48
  happen in modern discourse as well outside of fiction, but
• 2:04:51
  that's a whole other story let people you know people may be
• 2:04:56
  wrong, but they may just be wrong rather than bad.
• 2:04:58
  They may just be wrong. And you know recently won in
• 2:05:04
  this is kind of wrong poetry of mine is nothing to do about
• 2:05:07
  geology at always do a subjective taste.
• 2:05:10
  I had a Time of the Doctor commentary which is an episode.
• 2:05:13
  I dislike intensely with somebody that adores it.
• 2:05:18
  And I think I mastered the the ability to disagree agreeably it
• 2:05:24
  we've got very different opinions, but I wanted to hear
• 2:05:28
  what he had to say. Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:05:35
  The certainly is the certainly isn't you see this awesome going
• 2:05:39
  in and and it's almost giving Dr. Quinn what like one last
• 2:05:43
  life line, like go and speak to them.
• 2:05:45
  Yeah close to the truth. Maybe if he had in.
• 2:05:50
  She doesn't look like that in the book either.
• 2:05:52
  She's got sort of a mini skirt and long blonde hair in the book
• 2:05:55
  because there's a picture isn't there because she's actually
• 2:05:57
  there when Dr. Quinn gets killed, isn't she there's a
• 2:06:01
  picture of the silurian I sort of killing Dr. Quinn coming out.
• 2:06:05
  Yeah. She's standing she's standing
• 2:06:08
  next to it. I love all those those pictures
• 2:06:11
  inside the the target books. So when did you first watch this
• 2:06:15
  Joe? When did that's what I've got my
• 2:06:17
  bootleg copy. Right and then and how far into
• 2:06:22
  your perch we viewership was it though.
• 2:06:24
  How much per we had you seen before?
• 2:06:27
  I seen a lot of the early vhss I have those and so I had the time
• 2:06:33
  more. Yeah unedited I had death to the
• 2:06:36
  Daleks on edited. So I still think it's bizarre
• 2:06:39
  when those clip when that flooring red after the Daleks
• 2:06:43
  here. It's oh, yeah.
• 2:06:45
  Well several reasons really but I know I I piece together her
• 2:06:51
  weight and I basically classic Who because I came on my first
• 2:06:54
  doctor was Battlefield. So I came in right the end
• 2:06:57
  really excited for the next season.
• 2:06:58
  So I thought I collected the VHS.
• 2:07:01
  I had the sort of bootleg copies coming and I put the picture
• 2:07:06
  together a little bit at a time like a big jigsaw.
• 2:07:10
  I was the most wonderful decade of my life.
• 2:07:12
  I'll see. You know, I've I don't know if
• 2:07:17
  I've said it on your podcast and I apologize if I'm repeating
• 2:07:20
  myself. I actually feel slightly.
• 2:07:23
  Sorry for younger fans purely for my own perspective.
• 2:07:27
  Is that the archeology of being a fan when stuff wasn't
• 2:07:32
  available when you suddenly saw pictures of the celestial
• 2:07:36
  toymaker for the first time in the radio times 20th anniversary
• 2:07:38
  special or you discovered that the books were different to some
• 2:07:42
  of the series or and you piece it together and you're
• 2:07:45
  understanding of the show. And all its differences and
• 2:07:50
  changes and developments sometimes took years.
• 2:07:52
  I feel so lucky because it was everything was so exciting over
• 2:07:58
  a very long period of time and I remember when I started getting
• 2:08:02
  the bootlegs at a much quicker rate because I some people who
• 2:08:05
  had who had access to them. I actually Exciting got slightly
• 2:08:11
  less excited because it was like eating all the Suites at once.
• 2:08:13
  You know, I suddenly had, you know a VHS with You know, you're
• 2:08:18
  a set of four or five different stories and I motored through
• 2:08:20
  them all. Whereas when I first started
• 2:08:22
  collecting I could only get one or two at a time.
• 2:08:25
  So I had to save her that and it's it was a it was a bit like
• 2:08:28
  having, you know a lovely mini bit of Cordon Bleu that you save
• 2:08:33
  at every Taste of and because you weren't getting the next one
• 2:08:37
  for a while. Whereas now of course if you're
• 2:08:40
  young and you watch you've just watched Jodie Whittaker change
• 2:08:47
  and you go. What is this show?
• 2:08:48
  Well, you can get it all in a touch of a button, you know,
• 2:08:52
  whereas we you know, you watching Battlefield had to work
• 2:08:56
  out where to get all this stuff from and I think we're so lucky
• 2:09:00
  in that regard. Okay still remember getting the
• 2:09:02
  war games for the first time and forcing myself to ration it and
• 2:09:08
  episode in the I worked early in the mornings and I'd get up an
• 2:09:12
  hour early. Yeah and the excitement of
• 2:09:15
  waking up and I would do one episode in the morning before
• 2:09:18
  work and I can still remember that buzz.
• 2:09:21
  Oh watching those episodes but as well when I have the law.
• 2:09:27
  Then I was chasing that feeling again.
• 2:09:29
  I'm having like a new classic Doctor Who so when I never
• 2:09:33
  thought I was gonna happen again when enemy of the world and
• 2:09:35
  Weber fear. will return to the archives I almost didn't what I
• 2:09:42
  obviously my one chance to feel like this again, you know and
• 2:09:46
  boy, they didn't disappoint neither of them.
• 2:09:48
  But yeah, it was it was a great way of and I think as well like
• 2:09:52
  because you do pull it together like archeology.
• 2:09:57
  It did knowledge embeds, you know in a way that if you just
• 2:10:01
  finished it now, it would be so disposable.
• 2:10:03
  I think you just take in some of it.
• 2:10:05
  You know where I was I was looking at all the characters.
• 2:10:08
  When did The Companions leave? When did they go where did a
• 2:10:11
  monsters in it? How many times was of death?
• 2:10:13
  That's how I saw. And as a result, I've got all
• 2:10:17
  this information crammed in my head that you know was that they
• 2:10:20
  can't do much with but here we are.
• 2:10:23
  Here we are. Yeah.
• 2:10:24
  No, absolutely and I think you know, I think there's some stuff
• 2:10:28
  that you know, you pick up when you're younger that stays in
• 2:10:31
  your brain forever and the stuff that as you get older you learn
• 2:10:35
  and you know, I can't remember what I did yesterday.
• 2:10:36
  In fact, I have to take a certain amount of pills at night
• 2:10:39
  and last night. I'm pretty sure I took them.
• 2:10:44
  But I literally looked in the mirror of the bathroom and I
• 2:10:47
  went. Have I just have I just because
• 2:10:50
  I normally take them just after I brush my teeth.
• 2:10:52
  If I just taken them on or not in the packets were back in the
• 2:10:56
  cup and I could feel a slight. Thing in my throat.
• 2:11:00
  I thought I think I must have taken them.
• 2:11:02
  But did I take them all or did I just take those ones?
• 2:11:04
  I was like, but if I did or did I mean it was literally four
• 2:11:08
  seconds ago? Yeah, I can tell you everything
• 2:11:12
  about where I was when I watched pretty much every single classic
• 2:11:15
  Doctor Who story, you know, that will stay there forever and some
• 2:11:18
  of that was you know, 45 years ago.
• 2:11:20
  Oh, I was gonna say can you name all the actors who played the
• 2:11:24
  children who first appeared in and I know if he shot but of
• 2:11:27
  course, I know that you can answer that question.
• 2:11:29
  Yes, I can. Yes.
• 2:11:30
  Join me too. Well, of course, that's not I
• 2:11:39
  could if you wanted me it's it's Cedric Schumann, Rich was called
• 2:11:45
  Ian Wilson in the paperwork, but he was really cool know he's
• 2:11:49
  called Richard Wilson in the paperwork know he's Richard
• 2:11:52
  Wilson. He's Richard Wilson.
• 2:11:54
  Sorry in the actual Richard Wilson's real name is Ian
• 2:11:59
  Wilson. Where is Richard Wilson in The
• 2:12:02
  Doctor Who an unearthly child is his surname was actually spoke
• 2:12:06
  with two L's in real life, but it's only one in the paperwork
• 2:12:10
  which meant he was impossible to find except I did find him and
• 2:12:14
  Brian Thomas Heather Lyons Carol Clark Francesca, Berto, Riley
• 2:12:20
  and Mavis Ranson. They are the school children in
• 2:12:23
  an Earthly child. There we go.
• 2:12:25
  What did you say? Yes today?
• 2:12:34
  Episode right? I like I ended on a laugh.
• 2:12:38
  I don't know why. the penalized the Doctor Who
• 2:13:20
  commentary podcast after a small gap of Several months has it
• 2:13:27
  been several months. I don't think it's been that
• 2:13:29
  long. It's been a maybe coming up to a
• 2:13:32
  month. After a small gap of a mum.
• 2:13:34
  I am back here with the marvelous.
• 2:13:36
  Toby had Oaks say hello Toby. Hello, Joe.
• 2:13:39
  How are you? Very well.
• 2:13:41
  Thank you. I mean I kind of know because
• 2:13:42
  we've been talking for an hour prior to this point.
• 2:13:45
  We've been putting the world to rise for an hour.
• 2:13:47
  I'm gonna be who'd out before the end of episode 4 not at all.
• 2:13:52
  I watched it. So for earlier must talk about
• 2:13:55
  in this one. I have got what sorry first of
• 2:13:59
  all we're here to talk about the silurians people will know this
• 2:14:02
  because they've heard episodes one three, we talked a lot about
• 2:14:06
  because I listened back to one three.
• 2:14:08
  We talked a lot about Seasons 7 And its many strings, you know
• 2:14:13
  first three episodes. I want to ask you do you think
• 2:14:17
  the show would have had a sustainable future had this
• 2:14:22
  formula continued? if you'd asked me this 10 years
• 2:14:28
  ago when I was Cumulus and angry I mean on both of those things
• 2:14:32
  now, but hopefully less so I would absolutely Doctor Who
• 2:14:37
  should have been a serious and pretty and bloody bloody blah.
• 2:14:42
  I've warmed very much and God bless the Blu-rays partially for
• 2:14:46
  this but again, I think age and mellowing because I always found
• 2:14:50
  the sort of Fizz Bang. Slightly sort of chummy or more
• 2:14:55
  family. Friendly Barry.
• 2:14:57
  Let's see put Weir. To the disappointment on on
• 2:15:01
  viewing having read the target books, you know, it wasn't quite
• 2:15:05
  the adult thing. I wanted Doctor Who to be that's
• 2:15:07
  that's you know adult as in what seems adult when you twelve and
• 2:15:12
  of course then when you get to 30 you realize actually the the
• 2:15:15
  adult nurse or or lack there of season 7.
• 2:15:20
  It's like showing the twin dilemma and caves of Angela to
• 2:15:23
  somebody's not doctor. They don't actually look that
• 2:15:26
  different. So and I've learned I've learned
• 2:15:32
  to A much happier now with I did the same as season 2 though the
• 2:15:37
  Hartnell went and that season came out on Blu-ray.
• 2:15:39
  I I love how Charming it it is and I don't mean Charming as in
• 2:15:44
  oh, they were making things with you know socks and hope I mean,
• 2:15:49
  I find it, you know, I find the performances Charming.
• 2:15:51
  I find the human Charming I find a jokes and just what it does to
• 2:15:55
  me. And so I I'm much less conscious
• 2:15:58
  of the supposed faults of Seasons.
• 2:16:01
  What eight nine ten and eleven? and I I think probably that
• 2:16:12
  style of Doctor Who which is family friendly.
• 2:16:17
  Which is Doctor Who is a an odd job to do it has to be quite
• 2:16:21
  cozy. And also terrifying and that's
• 2:16:24
  really hard and the Daleks do it very well.
• 2:16:26
  Everybody loves the darling. So you see people's faces light
• 2:16:29
  up when they see the darling on the you know on the street to
• 2:16:32
  you know, doing a carnival or parade or you know that but also
• 2:16:36
  we are scared of the Daleks kids are terrified of the Daleks.
• 2:16:39
  So they managed to be something that we kind of love and think
• 2:16:42
  of us quite fun that are actually what they are is, you
• 2:16:46
  know, a, you know annihilating space racists So to make so
• 2:16:54
  Doctor Who has this curious? sort of almost paradoxical
• 2:17:01
  appeal in that it's comforting and it's joyous and it's
• 2:17:05
  charming and it's also supposed to make you wet the bed and I
• 2:17:11
  think I think season 7 is is great and I do love the the sort
• 2:17:16
  of gritty but it's particularly 70s kind of grittiness as well
• 2:17:19
  with all the film and all of that but I think for Doctor
• 2:17:22
  Who's long-term health, I think the slightly more Charming cozy
• 2:17:30
  fluffy around the edges Doctor Who is is probably a better
• 2:17:35
  ingredient because what doctors supposed to do is even though
• 2:17:38
  it's you know, a niche genre supposedly and it's got this
• 2:17:42
  ludicrous concept. It's it's it's it's at its best
• 2:17:45
  when it Appeals. To everybody we know that
• 2:17:48
  there's been times and its existence where it has appealed
• 2:17:50
  to everybody and and and and I think that the sort of mixture
• 2:17:56
  of that sort of mid pertiwi period from speaking to fans and
• 2:18:01
  of course speaking to people who aren't fans who are around at
• 2:18:04
  that time, you know had a really it had a really big appeal.
• 2:18:07
  So I think I think let's and dicks were probably correct, but
• 2:18:11
  I'm glad that we were able to have a year like this so that if
• 2:18:15
  I want to watch a slightly gutsy bit of per week, I can I can
• 2:18:19
  tune in and it's and it's probably slightly more to my
• 2:18:22
  taste but I'm aware that my taste is not necessarily what
• 2:18:26
  the show needs and it could afford to be of my taste because
• 2:18:30
  I know that the rest of who exists around it, you know,
• 2:18:33
  there's some truth that I was watching the blue ray version of
• 2:18:38
  the curse of pellet, which I was like Scrubs up.
• 2:18:42
  Usually those films sequences they've done An amazing
• 2:18:47
  astonishing and then I watched episode 4 of Doctor no, sorry
• 2:18:52
  lyrics today and chalk and cheese.
• 2:18:54
  They are like, they couldn't have felt totally more different
• 2:18:57
  both distinctly doctor who they are playing very different but
• 2:19:03
  you know, I'm extraordinary, isn't it?
• 2:19:06
  Mmm, but you look at the sort of the ratings.
• 2:19:11
  I know we can bang on a lot about the ratings in seven.
• 2:19:15
  It starts strong and then it starts to tail off.
• 2:19:19
  In a it starts quite strong and then gets better and better by
• 2:19:24
  sort of the Demons is it's flying high.
• 2:19:28
  Yeah. Yeah, I and I think you know, I
• 2:19:31
  love the seven parties. Personally, but if if I was
• 2:19:36
  making if you said to me now, Toby you're gonna be in charge
• 2:19:39
  of Doctor Who in 1972 or whatever much as I love those
• 2:19:44
  seven parties. I I don't think they're right
• 2:19:46
  for the audience really and it's amazing.
• 2:19:48
  Just what one extra episode but actually I think some of the you
• 2:19:52
  know, some of the book we six part is a two long but in a
• 2:19:55
  slightly different way, yeah, there's a different there's
• 2:19:58
  somehow a weirdly different feel to a seven partner than to a
• 2:20:01
  six-part even though there's any 25 minutes different.
• 2:20:05
  It's odd. Wow, should we skip into episode
• 2:20:09
  four then see what this seven part has to offer.
• 2:20:11
  Well, yes and let me just so what's yes, right.
• 2:20:16
  I am ready for you in five four, three, two one.
• 2:20:26
  And now I want I want to ask you a question about a character
• 2:20:30
  that I've been thinking about today.
• 2:20:32
  Okay, major Baker. Who we barely touched on in our
• 2:20:38
  first three episodes, right? And I think it's so interesting
• 2:20:41
  because technically he's right in what he's saying and he has
• 2:20:47
  seen in I think it's in this episode where you know, he's
• 2:20:51
  like there they want to invade they want to this they want to
• 2:20:54
  that and some of them do what he's saying is right, but we
• 2:20:58
  don't like it for some reason and I think it's because it
• 2:21:01
  that's not what the doctor thinks and that's not what the
• 2:21:05
  doctor was to do. Well, it's I mean what you say,
• 2:21:10
  we don't like it because I have some sympathy for him and I but
• 2:21:15
  I think that's partially to do with put with great compassion.
• 2:21:18
  And this is where I think Malcolm Hulk is such a good
• 2:21:20
  writer for Perth we because he very rarely makes the doctor.
• 2:21:26
  Didactic and telling people he will always see like when he
• 2:21:29
  sort of let's trenchard, you know, he sympathetic to poor old
• 2:21:34
  trendy, you know in in the sea Devils, he doesn't like bullies,
• 2:21:40
  you know, the government ministers who who, you know
• 2:21:44
  exercise their power. He'll tear them off a strip and
• 2:21:46
  he does and he does he does yellow quite a lot of people but
• 2:21:49
  fundamentally, he does sort of understand.
• 2:21:51
  He knows Baker's wrong, but I think he understands sort of sad
• 2:21:55
  misguided nature of the character and he's it's
• 2:21:58
  interesting in the book. He's funny enough.
• 2:22:00
  He gets more of a backstory, but he's a little bit more too
• 2:22:03
  dimensional in the sense that Malcolm Hulk can't resist giving
• 2:22:07
  him loads of sort of jingoistic for so I think when he gets
• 2:22:12
  arrested by the silurians, you know, he goes up.
• 2:22:14
  I die from England and Saint George and you've gone this
• 2:22:18
  guy's a bit of a stupid patriotic God, whereas here I
• 2:22:23
  think one I think Norman Jason complex performers, isn't it is
• 2:22:28
  I think he's an excellent actor. He's one of my favorite Doctor
• 2:22:30
  Who acts is it I wrote him about three or four times.
• 2:22:34
  In different ways to try and try and get something out of him and
• 2:22:37
  didn't get anything out of me. He did write back to a friend of
• 2:22:39
  mine and I only learned after his death that he If I hadn't
• 2:22:43
  sort of gone and occasionally do work for the BBC or I'm
• 2:22:46
  occasionally about doctor. I was trying to give myself a
• 2:22:48
  few credentials that I thought might make a go.
• 2:22:51
  Oh, well, this is worth doing whereas actually if I just got
• 2:22:53
  on I'm I'm just a person who watches Teddy and likes it
• 2:22:57
  because I think he quite resented how he how the business
• 2:23:00
  ended for him. So so the BBC or or being
• 2:23:05
  somebody worked on DVDs or something was not was something
• 2:23:07
  he would resist whereas if I just gone.
• 2:23:09
  Oh, I'm so in fact the last letter I wrote to him.
• 2:23:12
  I went you know, I'm I'm from where you're from.
• 2:23:15
  My mom worked in Telford where he where he spent his last years
• 2:23:18
  and I'm from shock and he's from I did that but by then I just
• 2:23:22
  got a letter back from the arms house that he was in saying, you
• 2:23:24
  know, he's not he's not approachable there.
• 2:23:27
  So I think he by then he was you know, he was he was he was a bit
• 2:23:30
  gone as it were and I and he had quite a tragic end, but I think
• 2:23:34
  he's I think he's a marvelous actor and I think he gives new
• 2:23:38
  ones to the character and so but the story is intelligent. enough
• 2:23:43
  to not paint him as As a total buffoon and as you say he's
• 2:23:48
  trying to do the right thing and that's why I think it's very
• 2:23:50
  interesting because as is the Brigadier nobody is doing what
• 2:23:54
  they're doing out of. Malice the brigadier's pragmatic
• 2:23:58
  Baker is desperate to prove himself and his slightly sort of
• 2:24:03
  lost, you know, even even Dr. Lawrence, you know has his
• 2:24:08
  reasons for doing what he's doing.
• 2:24:10
  This is a bit in the book where he goes.
• 2:24:11
  I die for England and Saint George and so I I think he could
• 2:24:17
  have been played much. He could have been portrayed
• 2:24:20
  much more starkly. I love the lighting here as
• 2:24:24
  well. So I think it's I think this is
• 2:24:27
  all good. I think this is Doctor Who?
• 2:24:29
  You know showing its going for slightly more complexity and its
• 2:24:32
  characterization we can afford to do something.
• 2:24:35
  This is what we lose. Hey, no, 10 and 11.
• 2:24:39
  I agree. Yes.
• 2:24:41
  No, and then I you know you and I watched the Devils and the BFI
• 2:24:45
  recently and characters like Walker there and yeah, just
• 2:24:49
  incredibly black and white is as know if it's a great there at
• 2:24:52
  all really know. I do think he's very funny.
• 2:24:54
  But yes, that's I think they started to I was going to sort
• 2:25:01
  of mention this when Jeff Jeffrey Palmer turns up, you
• 2:25:03
  know, they start portraying those characters in much broader
• 2:25:06
  Strokes, you know Masters could fit into you know, the power
• 2:25:10
  game or you know, any number of boardroom dramas or political
• 2:25:16
  dramas that were on the BBC at this time or before or just
• 2:25:20
  after whereas chin and Walker and those guys are very much
• 2:25:25
  doctor who we perform he kind of slightly more. children's
• 2:25:31
  television sort of government buffoons than Masters who is you
• 2:25:36
  know play totally straight. He still provides the same.
• 2:25:39
  Partially the same role he's bit more reasonable, but he's he's
• 2:25:44
  cut from a much more naturalistic cloth.
• 2:25:46
  You say complex you said in the first three episodes.
• 2:25:52
  You know what John post he does. He doesn't mention that Queen Is
• 2:25:56
  Dead because he knows That that you know that will provoke a
• 2:26:01
  reaction against what he's trying to achieve.
• 2:26:04
  That's a really interesting part this episode because the doctor
• 2:26:08
  doesn't really behave like that usually.
• 2:26:13
  No, and but that's the stuff of good drama when you when
• 2:26:17
  somebody gets themselves further into trouble by doing what they
• 2:26:20
  think is the right thing, you know the doctor and I've been
• 2:26:24
  deep diving into Marco Polo and there's elements of that in this
• 2:26:27
  way. Somebody does something
• 2:26:29
  dishonest for the right reasons, but then when they get caught in
• 2:26:33
  that dishonesty, that means they're right reasons are
• 2:26:35
  undermined, but you can sort of go but I would I could see why
• 2:26:38
  you did that. But now you've actually made it
• 2:26:40
  worse and that's good drama because I'll tell you what
• 2:26:44
  they've done it. It's the doctor is trying very
• 2:26:47
  hard to achieve, you know, peace with the silurians and every
• 2:26:51
  time you think he's gonna get there a spanner in the works.
• 2:26:54
  Okay, you get what's her name, Mr. Wilson go doctor kids.
• 2:27:00
  Yeah, just the wrong moment. Um, yeah, and then later on
• 2:27:05
  don't you have major breaker come in and say, you know the
• 2:27:08
  doctors betrayed us. Yeah, and I love those moments
• 2:27:12
  where yeah, you think okay. This is gonna get there.
• 2:27:15
  He's gonna cheat this this is gonna be negotiated and then bam
• 2:27:20
  And and they're not neither of those moments of frustrated
• 2:27:22
  because sometimes as a viewer when things that happen, it's
• 2:27:24
  frustrating because it's what I call a oh just call the police
• 2:27:27
  moment where where it's gonna dip we would be a far less
• 2:27:31
  trouble. Now if you just behaved
• 2:27:32
  logically, but actually both of the things the doctors done in
• 2:27:36
  those situations are perfectly logical.
• 2:27:38
  He hasn't done something stupid that has made the plot then have
• 2:27:42
  to be elongated because of and so much modern drama, you know,
• 2:27:47
  I we quite often turn stuff off where I go.
• 2:27:50
  What if they if they haven't just lied to the police?
• 2:27:53
  That's the one I was they had just lied to the police now or
• 2:27:56
  tried to cover up that hit and run that they've done which is
• 2:27:59
  really stupid. And you know, they're going to
• 2:28:01
  get caught the no story but actually You know, he lies about
• 2:28:07
  Dr. Quinn because he knows it's a fragile situation and he tries
• 2:28:10
  to talk to the silurians because he thinks that's a reasonable
• 2:28:13
  way in and he's getting somewhere but both of those
• 2:28:16
  things are then not Twisted, but they are interpreted in reported
• 2:28:20
  by people whose opinions are different and who have equally
• 2:28:25
  Logical and sensible reasons for their point of view but then
• 2:28:29
  putting their point of view in the situation as it has a
• 2:28:32
  written Arisen undermines the doctor's position, even though
• 2:28:35
  those positions are perfectly understandable and reasonable
• 2:28:38
  really satisfying isn't it? And it the seven episodes of
• 2:28:42
  Ford's time. Yeah this play out as well.
• 2:28:45
  Normally all possible. You wouldn't have time to do a
• 2:28:47
  lot of this. No, no and it doesn't flag and
• 2:28:50
  it doesn't feel there are no unnecessary car chases and all
• 2:28:54
  of that and I love I love the way the salarians move.
• 2:28:59
  I love the way they look in these dark the light, you know
• 2:29:02
  these Silhouettes that you get of theirs and then when the
• 2:29:05
  light lights up the third eye lights up, it's a silhouette
• 2:29:07
  with a shining like I we have to mention as well because people
• 2:29:10
  will curse us for talking over. It's about major Baker, you know
• 2:29:13
  jumper we holding out his hands and saying hello.
• 2:29:16
  Are you a silent? It's Doctor Who in a nutshell.
• 2:29:25
  We're confronted with oh, I love that bit.
• 2:29:27
  Yeah, and you know this doctor's what is he now?
• 2:29:30
  He's eight weeks old, you know, I mean, he totally owns
• 2:29:33
  Unthinkable, isn't it? So cold and actually so is
• 2:29:37
  Caroline John there's a wonderful scene.
• 2:29:39
  That was a few things about where she goes.
• 2:29:41
  Basically you let me come with you or I'm gonna go straight to
• 2:29:44
  the Brigadier. Yeah, you know, she knows her
• 2:29:46
  mind. Yeah.
• 2:29:47
  She's terrific. I think this is a great
• 2:29:50
  companion. And again, that's what you know,
• 2:29:53
  Barry Letts his instincts were probably right that the
• 2:29:57
  character like Joe is probably more suited to the to the format
• 2:30:01
  of the show, but I actually or certainly easier to do as a as a
• 2:30:08
  terms of writing and plot and that sort of thing.
• 2:30:10
  It's it's but but actually, you know with a bit of effort.
• 2:30:13
  I think they could have they could have made Liz Liz work,
• 2:30:16
  you know sure although you know, when we watched it was just
• 2:30:20
  astonished at how competent Joe Grant was in that.
• 2:30:23
  Yeah. yes, she's escaped. She's yeah artists the word when
• 2:30:29
  I was watching this early. I was very aware of the really
• 2:30:34
  atmospheric Ambience sounds in the Sand lyrics There's a lot
• 2:30:39
  work going on there to make this very creepy slightly.
• 2:30:42
  Yes, like The Echoes like the yeah that kind of yeah the walls
• 2:30:48
  look at and you know like it's damn.
• 2:30:52
  Yeah, and you've and it's got us it's got a feeling of some sort
• 2:30:57
  of equipment playing in the background as well as it's
• 2:31:01
  something like the electronic there as well.
• 2:31:02
  Yeah, it's again these these maestros of sound that creates
• 2:31:06
  an extra. Almost unnoticeable Dimension to
• 2:31:09
  Doctor Who you know you only notice it when you it's pointed
• 2:31:12
  out to you, but it is it's it's a huge part of the the sensory
• 2:31:17
  experience of watching Doctor Who you know, the only thing I
• 2:31:19
  thought it liked because he says he touches the door and says, oh
• 2:31:23
  she says it's really hot. I guess what they probably you
• 2:31:25
  know use it raise the temperature to acclimatize know
• 2:31:28
  in there. I thought they could have just
• 2:31:30
  pumped in a bit of dry ice or something like that to suggest.
• 2:31:32
  So it was a bit of Heat going on.
• 2:31:33
  Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:31:36
  Yeah, put a bit of sweat on everybody's faces.
• 2:31:39
  Yeah, this is great. The doctor says debate doesn't
• 2:31:41
  just cooperate with the you know, and find out what you can.
• 2:31:45
  Yeah, and it's and it's quite because I because I think major
• 2:31:50
  Baker sort of he doesn't see the doctor as a threat yet.
• 2:31:53
  So he does lots of I think when they go they do lots of waving.
• 2:31:56
  Goodbye. You know, they're it's it's not
• 2:31:58
  oh you know, I'm the antagonistic one and you're the
• 2:32:02
  hero one and will always butt heads when when they seem to
• 2:32:05
  think that You know the they're on the same path.
• 2:32:08
  They're you know, they're reasonable humans who cooperate
• 2:32:11
  with each other. It's only when there's their
• 2:32:13
  desires. Because of the the plot in their
• 2:32:17
  character start to rub up here to get each other the wrong way
• 2:32:20
  that there's that there's conflict between them and I like
• 2:32:22
  that I like the fact that they're all quite chummy here
• 2:32:25
  look he and he actually distracts them doesn't he says
• 2:32:27
  the doctrine is can escape and he and he gives them a lovely
• 2:32:29
  wave and I like all of that and he just like, you know the later
• 2:32:34
  on when he's gone. Oh you and your silurian friends
• 2:32:36
  and it's all a bit on the nose that he could have overplayed
• 2:32:39
  that terribly and it could have been very tiny, but I just
• 2:32:43
  believe his character. He's a lovely actor Norman Jones
• 2:32:46
  and and I wish the last sort of 10 years of his career had been
• 2:32:52
  Slightly better for him because he had he had a great career and
• 2:32:55
  he's like marvelous in all his doctor.
• 2:32:57
  Well, I'm not quite sure here on him was works when he's taken
• 2:33:02
  over by the mandragora thing, but His delivery there.
• 2:33:07
  It's an odd choice, but he's good casting for I think and I
• 2:33:11
  think he's brilliant in in the Abominable Snowman as Chris
• 2:33:14
  song. And here's Bertram the dinosaur.
• 2:33:17
  This is this is yes the dinosaur.
• 2:33:24
  I mean the picture in the book is gorgeous you ever seen Barney
• 2:33:28
  the kids program. I have numbers for this squeaky
• 2:33:32
  American idiom kids of death. Yes.
• 2:33:35
  Oh, okay. We're coming up to the scene.
• 2:33:39
  Up with a Catholic. What's his name?
• 2:33:41
  Travis Travis? Yeah, because there's a missed
• 2:33:45
  Travis in the book who I think who I think helps them solve it
• 2:33:48
  at the end. Well after Dr. Lawrence has been
• 2:33:50
  disintegrated but no. Yes, this is Travis played by
• 2:33:55
  God told but obeah. Ah, you mentioned him in.
• 2:34:00
  Yeah, I can see every part of that Obe in this scene because
• 2:34:05
  he from everybody. He is also in another Doctor Who
• 2:34:11
  Jim is he? Yeah.
• 2:34:14
  Go on. He is the spooky lawyer clout in
• 2:34:19
  the Leisure hive. It is, you know, Mr. Big
• 2:34:22
  difference story. Yeah, and he but he's now he's
• 2:34:28
  he became the the director of the Regent's Park open air
• 2:34:32
  theater. He directs the The Mousetrap
• 2:34:35
  that's on in London, you know that the long running all the
• 2:34:38
  interrupts by covid. So he's a he's a highly
• 2:34:41
  acclaimed theater director. This is this is proof of just
• 2:34:44
  bringing in a brilliant actor for like a one scene.
• 2:34:47
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:34:49
  It's just a nice little bit of business the way he's so utterly
• 2:34:52
  confident that everything that the director thinks he's already
• 2:34:55
  done and it makes it makes people's more exasperated but
• 2:34:59
  it's just like a little little needle in his ass and it gives
• 2:35:06
  him a little look and that's it. And that's all he does, isn't
• 2:35:08
  it? Mi mi says something wonderful
• 2:35:11
  in the documentary on the DVD. I watched that earlier about he
• 2:35:15
  goes. Yes, you know, there's a
• 2:35:17
  fraction of people, you know that go to work and treat people
• 2:35:20
  appallingly all the time. He goes and I was really tapping
• 2:35:23
  into that with Dr. Lauren. Oh, yeah.
• 2:35:26
  Well, he's he's great that sort of permanent peevishness that
• 2:35:30
  he's got Geoffrey Palmer is excellent.
• 2:35:32
  I mean, he wasn't a name at this point, you know, he was he was
• 2:35:36
  you know, he's a recognizable character player, but he you
• 2:35:39
  know, he blossomed, you know much later in life in terms of
• 2:35:42
  you know, Harris old names status, but I think he's so good
• 2:35:45
  in this He grounds it so well, and again, he's not, you know,
• 2:35:51
  obstinate government buffoon. He's quite you know, reasonable
• 2:35:56
  ministerial facilitator who's just trying to come up with the
• 2:35:59
  best solution and taking advice from different sources.
• 2:36:04
  And yeah, the way you've quite sort of charmingly says, you
• 2:36:07
  know, it'd be the end of your career child.
• 2:36:08
  This guy that's quite Sinister. I like I like it when it comes
• 2:36:13
  in that scene with Travis and Travis stands up and he just
• 2:36:15
  sort of goes. Oh, no sit down.
• 2:36:16
  Yeah. It's a little touches like that.
• 2:36:19
  And I you know, I believe these two have a relationship before.
• 2:36:24
  You know before the weeks rehearsal, they did before this
• 2:36:27
  and all of that. It's it's that sort of calling
• 2:36:29
  each other by their first names isn't it as well rather than
• 2:36:31
  director and yeah permanent under secretary.
• 2:36:35
  Yes. Yes under secretary's permanent
• 2:36:39
  or otherwise, yeah, it's all it's all very believable.
• 2:36:42
  It's all very credible when you know doctor also has room for
• 2:36:47
  sort of larger than life colorful characters.
• 2:36:50
  That's the beauty of it you I have said before, you know, I
• 2:36:53
  think one of the gifts of doctor is it doesn't doesn't
• 2:36:56
  necessarily always travel through time and space it
• 2:36:58
  travels through genre in its the series that can have characters
• 2:37:02
  like Vogue and churna and pet track and call it and he and
• 2:37:06
  major daily and clear, you know, they are all tights the two days
• 2:37:12
  but the story featuring Albertson Tori.
• 2:37:15
  Yeah directs is she Yeah, I do not belong in the same TV show.
• 2:37:26
  Yeah, and yet doctor makes it work, that's that's a that's a
• 2:37:29
  favorite part to it. I'll use it the may I ask yes
• 2:37:32
  who may ask it's sort of partly withering put down.
• 2:37:37
  You know what people people really wrap.
• 2:37:39
  Oh, he's arrogant bombers in season 7.
• 2:37:42
  I think it's hilarious. He's really obnoxious because I
• 2:37:48
  think we're supposed to think he's being a bit of an ass.
• 2:37:53
  But it just sort of manages to make it.
• 2:37:54
  I think it's because Peart we inhabits presence so well mmm,
• 2:38:00
  you know, he can be sort of big in his scolding and in his sort
• 2:38:04
  of patronizing because he's because he's big in everything
• 2:38:06
  else. He's big in his outfit.
• 2:38:08
  He's big in his hair. He's a he's a he's a presence.
• 2:38:11
  So therefore you he can go to extremes that might look, That
• 2:38:16
  might not quite contain themselves in lesser presences.
• 2:38:19
  If you like was watching the behind the sofas.
• 2:38:23
  I'm just like I'm doing an advert for the blu-ray releases
• 2:38:26
  here, but I was watching the Andy and Peter and Sarah are
• 2:38:30
  talking about poetry and about how he isn't charming and how he
• 2:38:35
  isn't vulnerable because he's always used to be in control but
• 2:38:39
  I'm thinking are you watching the same character that I'm
• 2:38:41
  watching because he's very he's very funny.
• 2:38:44
  I mean John Poe's and very funny actor.
• 2:38:48
  He's totally Charming. He know you know, but he's
• 2:38:50
  Charming in terms of he knows how to address a court in knows
• 2:38:54
  how to you know show deference in in, you know in places that
• 2:38:59
  require Pomp and Circumstance and decorum and certain ways and
• 2:39:03
  also, He's fun to watch Being not down a Peggy that brilliant
• 2:39:09
  scene in the sea Devils that we watched recently at the BFI, you
• 2:39:13
  know, where he goes up just made a brilliant radio have an idea
• 2:39:15
  and then it explodes and you get that's that that only works if
• 2:39:20
  you've got a guy who is big and confident and you know on the
• 2:39:26
  joke that he's being brought down a peg or two in Council
• 2:39:31
  pellets on is when catering goes the pilot was exceedingly
• 2:39:35
  inefficient, and you see perfectly just beyond looking so
• 2:39:38
  disgruntled is hilarious. Yeah, and you know John John put
• 2:39:45
  the actor is in on that gag. He knows he's not he's not an
• 2:39:50
  actor trying to do one thing and it's coming across badly, but we
• 2:39:53
  know exactly what he's doing there or maybe there is an
• 2:39:56
  element of put we in that but that's fine.
• 2:39:58
  That means he's he's aware of his own kind of faults of his
• 2:40:02
  happy to to send that up and that's always to me the sign of
• 2:40:05
  an interesting before me, you know, something else.
• 2:40:07
  I love about the third doctor as well is he's basically just said
• 2:40:10
  to Jeffrey Palmer's character then look, you know, you gotta
• 2:40:14
  go back to government officials and tell them there's a lot of
• 2:40:16
  lizards under the Earth and you know, and we're trying to
• 2:40:20
  negotiate in Sea Devils. He's going you know, Horatio
• 2:40:23
  Nelson was a very close personal friend or he's got no he doesn't
• 2:40:27
  care if he looks like an idiot. Does he know?
• 2:40:30
  no, I love that and and that to me, I think that's that's why I
• 2:40:36
  think the doctor's quite an interesting character because
• 2:40:38
  he's they whatever is is above. Is above our little petty.
• 2:40:47
  trivial present day concerns so he hasn't got time to worry
• 2:40:51
  about skirting around the issue that you ratio Nelson because
• 2:40:56
  his brain is working 10 times quicker than everybody else is
• 2:40:59
  and so he's going I just need to sort this out.
• 2:41:01
  I need he doesn't have the time to sort of go.
• 2:41:02
  Oh, I better make this, you know, this official not feel not
• 2:41:06
  feel too uncomfortable because he he knows he's clever and
• 2:41:10
  better than all of these people and if they just did he they
• 2:41:13
  were bloody. Well told everything would be
• 2:41:14
  all right, and that's quite for a serious that has you know fans
• 2:41:18
  who are you know, I'm looking myself in with this as a
• 2:41:22
  slightly can be, you know, disappeared down rabbit holes or
• 2:41:25
  slightly on the spectral or whatever, you know, all of that
• 2:41:27
  that is that is that kind of a trait of being so sort of
• 2:41:30
  focused and single-minded about one particular thing that you
• 2:41:34
  kind of forget about things like, Not coming across like an
• 2:41:38
  ass. We also helps that you've got
• 2:41:40
  her with her who's decided that nothing about this show is
• 2:41:43
  absurd so he's gonna play every line for real you and you cut
• 2:41:47
  and that's I mean that's I think something that he does
• 2:41:49
  brilliantly wait. So it sells the most absurd
• 2:41:53
  situation well because you know doctor if it's not careful, you
• 2:41:56
  know, it it's it's it's daring you to go.
• 2:41:59
  This is stupid, you know, and that brilliant this is perfect
• 2:42:03
  job, but we moment right on cue he walks in sees three green
• 2:42:08
  lizard he thinks and goes and I'm sorry to best.
• 2:42:10
  Did you like it and you go that that is that is John put we as
• 2:42:16
  Doctor Who in a nutshell, you know charming smile.
• 2:42:20
  You know bit of John limousine like oh now why was he never in
• 2:42:27
  doctor? Oh, he would have a bit of
• 2:42:29
  wonderful villain, you know, he had been a great villain
• 2:42:31
  wouldn't he? Oh, but notice that the doctor
• 2:42:35
  is far more Charming entering the salarian base and he ever
• 2:42:39
  was an episode one when he entered the you know, the
• 2:42:42
  research center. Yes.
• 2:42:43
  Yes. He's got more time for green.
• 2:42:45
  Yes. he has for a lot and I I had no idea what the silurian
• 2:42:58
  voices would be like before I Saw this story.
• 2:43:02
  I still can't quite describe them.
• 2:43:04
  But I absolutely love them. I think they're really
• 2:43:07
  interesting and I think hats off to Peter Halliday because he
• 2:43:10
  gives you one a totally different characterization even
• 2:43:14
  though he's sort of sitting there and doing them all at the
• 2:43:16
  same time. Is he doing them all?
• 2:43:18
  Yeah. I knew I was in the mix.
• 2:43:22
  I didn't realize he's just with himself.
• 2:43:25
  Yeah. He does the mall and actually
• 2:43:28
  also there's good work being done by the by the actors in the
• 2:43:32
  suits because they've all got very distinct body language that
• 2:43:36
  has obviously been worked on. You know, this is Dave years
• 2:43:39
  before you'd have a choreographer come in for a week
• 2:43:41
  and drill all the monsters like you have to today this was you
• 2:43:44
  know, somebody go watch Michelle do a bit with my hands like
• 2:43:49
  yeah. Yes, Daddy Daddy.
• 2:43:50
  Can you do something that Peter Well, there we go.
• 2:43:56
  That's the monster. I don't want to sound like that
• 2:44:00
  fan but I do much prefer this design of Silo and even though
• 2:44:05
  that's clearly sort of a man in a rubber suit.
• 2:44:08
  It's the head. I love the head.
• 2:44:11
  I think these suits are bloody marvellous.
• 2:44:16
  I think I think the masks are superb.
• 2:44:18
  I think yes. Sorry.
• 2:44:22
  I have to LEAP on my thing to stop it cutting off the credits
• 2:44:26
  and I I think yes top building for Norman Jones because Altima
• 2:44:31
  is no longer in it. I I think those celery in
• 2:44:36
  costumes are fabulous. I think they look really good
• 2:44:38
  under that cave Lighting in particular.
• 2:44:40
  I think the masks are great. I am totally sympathetic. to You
• 2:44:48
  know the desire of the modern production team to go you really
• 2:44:51
  need to see the eyes. You really need to see the math
• 2:44:54
  together you I totally get it but I I'm sad that the world has
• 2:45:00
  made us so A genius. I mean I why can't we accept you
• 2:45:07
  know characterization and feel emotion and get involved in the
• 2:45:10
  thought process. If of something that has a mask
• 2:45:13
  with actually no recognizable human features that we can see
• 2:45:17
  because I think those Twitchy mouths and those those eyes and
• 2:45:21
  that and the gate the body language the tone of voice.
• 2:45:25
  I think they all work, you know, really well to make distinct
• 2:45:28
  characterizations and I'm sad that modern television doesn't
• 2:45:32
  doesn't allow us to do that whilst totally getting that the
• 2:45:37
  new series opted to do it the way that they have I mean, I
• 2:45:41
  don't think there is affective again in more is the deed.
• 2:45:44
  I feel that it's something very cost to me about that.
• 2:45:47
  And I think it's a pretty good design.
• 2:45:50
  It's I think again, I think a totally logical thought to go.
• 2:45:55
  Well, let's give them a sort of outer shell make them a bit toy
• 2:45:59
  see that that kind of ties in with you know, where they may
• 2:46:03
  have come for what they might be related to I think it was very
• 2:46:05
  intelligent thought process went into that.
• 2:46:07
  But one there on you know, a very, you know, start cleaning
• 2:46:13
  place for stars. But but even in their own
• 2:46:15
  environment, they it does seem to be more artificial certainly
• 2:46:20
  less. You know mobile and malleable
• 2:46:26
  and they talk about genocide and things like this, but the way
• 2:46:31
  they've designed the mouse, it looks like they're having a good
• 2:46:33
  chuckle about it about everything.
• 2:46:34
  They're in the back of a scene that it will a lot.
• 2:46:36
  They're smiling. Well and of course and they've
• 2:46:38
  all been told to walk very slowly because that's how aliens
• 2:46:42
  walk so they Lumber about everywhere and they've all got
• 2:46:45
  this terrible modulation on their voices.
• 2:46:48
  So they all actually even though it is three different actors.
• 2:46:51
  They all sound pretty much the same and they're good actors.
• 2:46:55
  I mean one of the one of the actors Vincent Primal is a is a
• 2:46:58
  is an old major and actually turned up in flux top, but you
• 2:47:03
  know, it's not much you can do with they didn't wake up in the
• 2:47:07
  first place. You know, whereas I I think it's
• 2:47:12
  classic Doctor Who has a habit of this.
• 2:47:14
  I don't think the sontarans were ever as good as they were in
• 2:47:16
  their first story. They gradually get worse and
• 2:47:18
  worse. Why don't I consider a small
• 2:47:21
  weather as well and it's a bit that's it.
• 2:47:23
  But those Originals I got those new series.
• 2:47:27
  I was at the park and then some I think I I agree I agree and
• 2:47:32
  again, it's it's all about, you know, a different direct to
• 2:47:36
  coming in and going well, how can we make this different?
• 2:47:38
  Okay. Well, let's have these these
• 2:47:39
  monster, you know, that's quite good and it's in modern doctors
• 2:47:43
  they sort of come in and go and I'm big one doctor, but they'll
• 2:47:47
  sort of coming to go. So what's Unique about this
• 2:47:49
  monster. Well, it's got a whispering
• 2:47:51
  voice. Okay.
• 2:47:51
  Well, let's just have it talk like a generic.
• 2:47:53
  I am a monster right so we'll take away.
• 2:47:56
  What's what's Sort of bespoke about it.
• 2:48:00
  And and and and what's what's what's so interesting about but
• 2:48:03
  they've got this sort of fecal position thing going on.
• 2:48:05
  Oh, well, that's just straighten them up and give them those rib
• 2:48:08
  cages like all months to seven and you get so you're it's it's
• 2:48:11
  a really weird desire to sort of homogenize everything so that so
• 2:48:15
  that the viewers aren't sort of confused or whatever.
• 2:48:18
  The reasoning is, whereas in the old days.
• 2:48:20
  It seemed to be what could we do that is a break from the norm of
• 2:48:24
  what these things would normally be.
• 2:48:25
  So it's odds that they drive in those different days because the
• 2:48:29
  ice worries get the ice. Where is they've got that
• 2:48:31
  brilliant conceit of go. Well, they they whisper because
• 2:48:33
  they're not used to our atmosphere and they talk
• 2:48:35
  differently when they're in their atmosphere.
• 2:48:37
  That's such a brilliant idea. And I remember seeing that as a
• 2:48:39
  kid and finding that such an exciting and thoughtful approach
• 2:48:43
  and they come back in one doctor and I know just talked and you
• 2:48:48
  go No CGI. So they're clumpy hands which is
• 2:48:53
  their unique thing and they're hissy voice which is the unique
• 2:48:56
  thing. You've got rid of both of those
• 2:48:57
  things. So, I don't know why have you
• 2:49:00
  put what if you bothered to bring them back?
• 2:49:01
  I'll tell you anything. I'm mad.
• 2:49:04
  I'll tell you one thing about the 70s monsters.
• 2:49:06
  They just get spot on and it's why I feel like it's flesh.
• 2:49:10
  They glisten links glistens. So the zygons so the silurian so
• 2:49:17
  did the sea devil say it feels it feels like flesh.
• 2:49:20
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:49:22
  Well a little bit here and the ice Warriors have sort of
• 2:49:26
  slightly furry furry stuff going on don't they sort of organic
• 2:49:30
  kind of unfortunately what the when the marshman come out the
• 2:49:33
  river they look fantastic, but then when they're in the style,
• 2:49:37
  I think they've dried out so they're all like they're rubber,
• 2:49:40
  you know, well and film films before you look like how was a
• 2:49:45
  lot of sins he does it does. Talk like that what it's okay
• 2:49:51
  about listening skin on a question.
• 2:49:55
  I'll start the next one with the question its
• 2:50:14
  you Well, hello everybody Welcome
• 2:50:42
  Back and thanks for joining us here where we have a hamster and
• 2:50:46
  a blunt pen knife. We've got rid of Dr. Quinn.
• 2:50:50
  There's still a Medicine Woman or as we like to call a doctor
• 2:50:53
  Elizabeth Short, and we also have the pen knife wielding
• 2:50:56
  himself. It's Joe Ford, so I'm going to
• 2:51:02
  hand over to you Joe and you're gonna I think ask some questions
• 2:51:06
  from those people out there who live on the internet.
• 2:51:09
  And if where that's the strangest you've missed him I've
• 2:51:12
  ever heard Jim. Well, I bet you've worked out a
• 2:51:17
  corkscrew at an inopportune moment or something like that,
• 2:51:20
  etc. Etc.
• 2:51:21
  What I went back to listen to the first three you you said
• 2:51:25
  I'll start to learn how to speak your language and boy had you
• 2:51:29
  hahaha Okay. Yeah, I do.
• 2:51:31
  I have a number of questions. I'm gonna ask you the one by
• 2:51:37
  Stephen Alexander Hello Steven. He asks, where's two questions
• 2:51:41
  kind of go together who's planet?
• 2:51:44
  Is it Anyway? And if all Doctor Who monsters
• 2:51:49
  are a metaphor for something, what do you think the Solaria is
• 2:51:53
  represent? Oh my God by me like me Charlie
• 2:51:58
  and well, I mean it it's a it's a it's such a brilliant dilemma
• 2:52:03
  because it is the silurians planet, but they they went and
• 2:52:11
  hid and you know, we turned up and went.
• 2:52:15
  Oh well as far as we can, you know, this this is where we're
• 2:52:19
  from because it is where we're from as well.
• 2:52:20
  We it's not like we landed from somewhere else.
• 2:52:24
  So not that that's a thing either but you know, we we kind
• 2:52:30
  of turned up here evolved here made his own and then the people
• 2:52:34
  who had been here before popped up.
• 2:52:35
  I mean one it's such a brilliant idea for what you do with Doctor
• 2:52:40
  Who and he's exiled on Earth. Is that story number two you go.
• 2:52:45
  As terroristic said not a mad scientist not an alien invasion.
• 2:52:48
  We've got this you go. Wow, that is such a brilliant
• 2:52:51
  such a fertile idea for one for the science fiction.
• 2:52:55
  He element of it because it's fascinating but two for the
• 2:52:58
  moral the moral dilemma, which is I mean, the reality is it's
• 2:53:01
  insurmountable as a moral dilemma, unless you want to make
• 2:53:05
  the drama about three people looking really bored talking
• 2:53:09
  about who gets a space fridge and who gets to live in the
• 2:53:12
  Sahara Desert and we've all seen that happen in more recent
• 2:53:15
  episodes did not for goods drama make us I mean, you know, I I
• 2:53:28
  can I can imagine Chopper which it at the end of the table.
• 2:53:31
  Well Caroline John goes to sleep because well, let's have a space
• 2:53:37
  fridge know you you teach your space fridge technology and
• 2:53:41
  we'll give you Madagascar. You know, I mean, it's Now
• 2:53:45
  you're talking I think that's one of the lines isn't it?
• 2:53:46
  Yeah, we have no Authority but nonetheless we are negotiated
• 2:53:52
  for the future of the planet Earth.
• 2:53:53
  It's a factual a Cherry Picked everything from the story.
• 2:53:56
  But just the whole emphasis wrong.
• 2:53:58
  Yeah. But anyway, and so I I think the
• 2:54:03
  beauty of it is it's is that it's a thorny and sort of in and
• 2:54:08
  certainly in terms of in an adventure drama, you know, you
• 2:54:11
  know, it's not gonna end with John put, you know with with
• 2:54:15
  them just sitting down to go. Yeah and you're gonna live off
• 2:54:17
  screen everywhere hot and we'll all be fine, you know, it's got
• 2:54:21
  to end and you know, it's not gonna end with the sun.
• 2:54:24
  It's living living people amongst us.
• 2:54:27
  So, you know, you know, you're sort of headed, you know on a on
• 2:54:31
  a train to disaster Bill and because it is an insuperable
• 2:54:37
  problem, it's our planet and it's their Planet, but the
• 2:54:41
  problem is It's it's our planet at a different time from when
• 2:54:47
  it's their planet and suddenly those two times Collide and
• 2:54:52
  that's never going to end tablet which is why it's such a good
• 2:54:54
  story and why it's such a good idea, you know as a kid when I
• 2:54:59
  watched this, I love the idea of their underneath us and they've
• 2:55:03
  been there all along and this is their Planet but the idea that
• 2:55:06
  really captured me was when period goes, you know, you went
• 2:55:10
  into hibernation because an asteroid was kind of collide
• 2:55:14
  with the Earth and it didn't it didn't do it orbit of the earth
• 2:55:17
  and became the moon I never had to go to sleep in the first
• 2:55:19
  place. So it's like a massive irony so
• 2:55:21
  all of this, Yeah as a kid. I really really interested in
• 2:55:25
  me. Yeah.
• 2:55:26
  Yeah, and it's it's and I love how it's described in the book
• 2:55:29
  as well. Isn't it?
• 2:55:30
  Because they described it. He describes it in sort of
• 2:55:32
  siluria and he turns it's the little planet isn't it or
• 2:55:35
  something like that? It's and it describes Dells last
• 2:55:39
  day. Doesn't it before they go to
• 2:55:41
  before they go to sleep? And yes actually And I quite
• 2:55:46
  like the fact that it's not all just you know, blundering human
• 2:55:49
  stupid apes or whatever that the actual fundamental mistake was
• 2:55:53
  theirs in that they that they'd made a scientific
• 2:55:57
  miscalculation. So it's it's not that they're a
• 2:56:01
  totally wronged party either. You know, it's it's it's it's
• 2:56:04
  it's a horrible set of circumstances that have
• 2:56:07
  contrived to bring us to this situation, but it's not you
• 2:56:10
  know, neither side is totally to blame or blameless, you know,
• 2:56:14
  it's how old idea that we are in their eyes.
• 2:56:17
  So I've got above our station. It's shown up.
• 2:56:20
  Yeah, which imagine they represent them.
• 2:56:24
  Well, I think I think they represent that, you know well
• 2:56:29
  and maybe this is just because I spent the past couple of days on
• 2:56:32
  Twitter. They represent that it's it's
• 2:56:35
  not all about you love, you know, they they were the Empress
• 2:56:41
  of all they surveyed they were the center of their universe and
• 2:56:43
  desperately important and and amazing and we think that you
• 2:56:47
  know, our race is well, you know, we're us with a Humanity
• 2:56:50
  we've got all these great things that we do, but actually just a
• 2:56:55
  blip Here just a blip so, you know don't.
• 2:57:04
  You know. Don't go to sleep thinking.
• 2:57:07
  You're the dog's bollocks because you might wake up in the
• 2:57:09
  morning and find that actually the world is completely changed
• 2:57:14
  around you and you're no longer relevant.
• 2:57:15
  That's a language interesting or they don't go into here, isn't
• 2:57:19
  it? It's obviously it never becomes
• 2:57:21
  widespread knowledge. Because that would be
• 2:57:24
  interesting to see play out though, like the whole of
• 2:57:26
  society. Basically, you know, we got it
• 2:57:30
  wrong and We're not the beer one end all and they do have better
• 2:57:36
  technology than us and they're already here.
• 2:57:38
  Yeah. Yeah, it's I mean there's so
• 2:57:42
  much you could do and I'm sure you know, there's so much scope
• 2:57:44
  I think for for stories about You know silurian to where they
• 2:57:49
  were when they went to sleep. And and how that's changed for
• 2:57:54
  them. You know now that they've woken
• 2:57:56
  up and everything's a little bit different and it might be good
• 2:57:58
  for some and it might be bad for others and I think you could you
• 2:58:01
  could do some really nuanced character stuff with that idea
• 2:58:04
  if you were so inclined, you know, there was a wonderful
• 2:58:07
  comic strip in dwn. I can't remember what it was
• 2:58:11
  called, but it is effective and I think Bloody as well plays
• 2:58:14
  about with the idea that what if ya exposed and Silas were living
• 2:58:19
  among us and what that society would look like.
• 2:58:21
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:58:23
  No, it's it's Rich for that and I've yes, I remember that comic
• 2:58:27
  strip and I've I've read blood as well.
• 2:58:28
  And yeah, I enjoyed exploring those ideas which just goes to
• 2:58:32
  show this is just first round. There's yeah.
• 2:58:34
  There's more to be done with the same idea.
• 2:58:37
  Yeah, well and hulky even does it in the book where you get a
• 2:58:40
  different slightly different takes and and feelings on on the
• 2:58:43
  same sort of Base ingredients because you know, he was he was
• 2:58:48
  the gift that kept on giving when he came to put the paper
• 2:58:51
  for for Target. Because yeah because he was he
• 2:58:56
  was interested in sort of thoughtful philosophical things
• 2:58:59
  and and character, you know, and he didn't and he didn't and he
• 2:59:03
  genuinely tried to get into the head of his aliens rather than
• 2:59:06
  just portray them as a as a nuisance to be God out of the
• 2:59:10
  way, which I think makes him, you know, very interesting
• 2:59:12
  writer. It's just I love how he dared to
• 2:59:16
  sort of unpick the right wing and the left wing as well.
• 2:59:21
  Yes and see what comes crawling out.
• 2:59:23
  It's usually Well again, I mean you only have to spend a bit of
• 2:59:28
  time on social media to really that actually there's you know,
• 2:59:33
  the extremes of both the there's not actually a sliver between
• 2:59:36
  them, you know. That you know that the
• 2:59:39
  methodology is pretty pretty much the same even though they
• 2:59:42
  you know, they think they're supposed to in different
• 2:59:44
  different world views, you know, it's all about it's all about
• 2:59:49
  bullying and power and spitefulness.
• 2:59:52
  You know, Rusty Davis could write a Savage criticism of
• 2:59:56
  social media, you know in a doctor who story I look forward
• 2:59:59
  to him. In the meantime, I would love to
• 3:00:04
  I will love to see him do that shit and you go to Talay won't
• 3:00:08
  hold back. However, will he know this is
• 3:00:11
  the fellow at Tony Blair raining bombs down on the earth and
• 3:00:15
  killed population. Yeah.
• 3:00:18
  Yeah. I love that.
• 3:00:21
  It's not too so sometimes but yeah, and yeah, he turns the
• 3:00:27
  satire up to 11. I love it turned a load of
• 3:00:31
  politicians into a bunch of gassy win backs.
• 3:00:35
  Yeah, perfect. It's brilliant.
• 3:00:38
  Yeah, it's the gleeful. But instead we will go into
• 3:00:42
  episode 5 of doctor in asylums. Yes.
• 3:00:46
  And experience some of this for philosophy and excellent
• 3:00:49
  character work. Okay.
• 3:00:51
  Okay you care to count as in Well, we are going to start
• 3:00:55
  watching episode 5 of Doctor Who in the silurians in three. two
• 3:01:02
  one Isn't it lovely to see it in color?
• 3:01:10
  Yeah. I know.
• 3:01:11
  It's just in color does it again I'm not gonna say it on those
• 3:01:14
  Blu-ray says those colors pop. Yeah, I mean, I think I will be
• 3:01:19
  interested to see Caesars in seven because I remember being
• 3:01:23
  quite you know just disappointed mention this in the early
• 3:01:27
  episodes deny that that actually the black and white that I had
• 3:01:31
  was slightly better picture quality.
• 3:01:32
  But so the colors always been a bit of a compromise, so I will
• 3:01:36
  be very interested to see what they managed to do with the with
• 3:01:40
  with season 7 when it does come to to Blue Ridge because you
• 3:01:46
  know with this this is with this they just have the the VHS color
• 3:01:50
  don't they and the black and white print so, you know, that's
• 3:01:54
  not working with the with us good quality as some of the
• 3:01:57
  latest Seasons but I think what they what they've done with the
• 3:02:01
  With with those season 9 stories is incredible.
• 3:02:04
  I mean Paradigm looks amazing. Do you think it's in and jump
• 3:02:10
  out with contract? He has to go and once per story.
• 3:02:13
  Yes, it's not his greatest. It's not his greatest skill.
• 3:02:17
  Is it the the big and physical pain and peril?
• 3:02:24
  I say I like C. Major Baker's looking after the
• 3:02:27
  doctor. I like that is that you know,
• 3:02:28
  they are. They are fighting for different.
• 3:02:32
  teams really but He's still a decent sort Baker even if he's
• 3:02:36
  just. Even if he's wrong now, I'm sure
• 3:02:39
  in the book this chap private Robin's I'm sure he jumps off a
• 3:02:44
  Chasm and dies as and so I was always quite disappointed when
• 3:02:47
  he didn't do that in this he just sort of goes he just has a
• 3:02:49
  bit of a, you know, a bit of a turn doesn't he?
• 3:02:51
  Well, there was one moment isn't it where he does?
• 3:02:54
  So and it's yeah. That's really well acted that
• 3:02:58
  soon. Yeah, and that's the last we see
• 3:03:00
  of them. Whereas I'm sure in the in the
• 3:03:03
  book. He then goes a bit too loudly
• 3:03:04
  and jumps into guys and there's a picture of Major Baker when
• 3:03:08
  the silurians leave him in the cave, you know, any and he
• 3:03:11
  revives and he's got he's got the play but there's a shot of
• 3:03:15
  Baker lying down unconscious and the solarium tearing over him
• 3:03:19
  and I'm sure in Doctor Who magazine it kind of said, you
• 3:03:22
  know, the silurians Lewis Soldier to his death and so they
• 3:03:26
  don't see interpreted that picture to be that bit from the
• 3:03:29
  book. So even even talk to magazine
• 3:03:32
  sort of perpetuated that that myth if you like or that just
• 3:03:35
  that particular Edition did so I was really surprised when I
• 3:03:37
  watched this episode went. Oh that I didn't die.
• 3:03:40
  Does he die next week? No never see him again.
• 3:03:43
  Um, I couldn't help but notice that Paul Darrow was in that
• 3:03:48
  last scene underplayed. I love that all about.
• 3:03:53
  He's terrific in this I think he's super.
• 3:03:57
  I've never seen him on the plane.
• 3:03:59
  Oh, no. Well, it just goes to show.
• 3:04:03
  You know what? What he could do if he wanted to
• 3:04:06
  I mean he and he likely chose not to and that's fine.
• 3:04:10
  That's good. Well.
• 3:04:14
  You're right, you know I was watching those salaries and
• 3:04:17
  obviously I'm watching this without any sound and I can tell
• 3:04:19
  from their body language. What character is.
• 3:04:24
  Yeah, and the outside learning is a guy called Dave Carter
• 3:04:26
  who's in so many Doctor Who's he's in I mean, he's a he's a
• 3:04:32
  prime order in Inferno. He's he's the museum attendant
• 3:04:35
  to tear of the auton. So he's you know, he's almost
• 3:04:37
  every other story. His biggest role is Greer son in
• 3:04:42
  the Android Invasion. The guy helps Tom Baker in
• 3:04:45
  episode 4 realign the realign the radar and it's almost like
• 3:04:50
  Barry Lexus is doing his last directing job.
• 3:04:52
  He goes. Well, I'll give David decent
• 3:04:54
  part but he was he was a jumper. We quite liked him.
• 3:04:58
  I think Dave Carter, but you can see why because he's you know,
• 3:05:01
  he was just sort of, you know, one line of merchants door
• 3:05:04
  background artist and he but he invests a load into this sort of
• 3:05:09
  ancient lizard like body language and they won't have a
• 3:05:13
  curry or anything like that, you know how you know sort of every
• 3:05:16
  all the jump over his favorites were pulled in for planets
• 3:05:19
  aspires was Dave car in their as well following off Dave Carter
• 3:05:23
  is not Sin, oh planet of the spiders, which is a bit.
• 3:05:27
  Odd, but I wonder if he'd gone off to do other because he did
• 3:05:30
  he was he was a regular. I mean this isn't at the same
• 3:05:32
  time, but he he did lots of other work and he was a regular
• 3:05:34
  he was the barman in alfredo same pet.
• 3:05:37
  I think Series 2, you know, which again I think he'd started
• 3:05:40
  doing as a you know, he gets a line here and there and they
• 3:05:42
  sort of build up the part a little bit now.
• 3:05:45
  I wonder why he vanishes I'm just trying to think what his
• 3:05:48
  last what is last but we roll is maybe they'll maybe a fellow to
• 3:05:53
  favor. You never know sure not to but
• 3:05:58
  I'll come back to that. What was there's a you know you
• 3:06:00
  he was saying about background or sporting artists there.
• 3:06:04
  There's a wonderful part from our favorite Peter miles in one
• 3:06:08
  of the common trees where they're talking about.
• 3:06:10
  I think it's funny that you were on actually we're back Gorman
• 3:06:13
  and he goes he's in episode 2 of invasion of the dinosaurs and I
• 3:06:23
  had to point out the pat Goldman actually gets a credit in that
• 3:06:25
  episode but that's only realized oh, there's a bit of a hierarchy
• 3:06:30
  here. Yeah, and the sad thing with
• 3:06:36
  Dave Carter is we've never actually found him and it's hard
• 3:06:40
  to find somebody, you know, Dave and Carter and not exactly
• 3:06:44
  uncommon names but because he was around until relatively
• 3:06:48
  recently. It it's always been a bit of a
• 3:06:52
  surprise that we've never we've never turned him up.
• 3:06:55
  I think I think we've decided he is he is dead now, but but we
• 3:07:01
  won't even sure of that which which seems really, you know,
• 3:07:04
  really odd. It's a bit of a it's a bit of a
• 3:07:07
  he's of course. He's his last His last perk We
• 3:07:11
  Roll is he's in he's in he's in the episode before the one we
• 3:07:15
  were just talking about with Pat Gorman.
• 3:07:17
  He's the guy he's one. He's one of the guys that
• 3:07:20
  processes The Doctor and Sarah in episode one of invasion of
• 3:07:23
  the dinosaurs. Oh, okay quite in that.
• 3:07:26
  He's a sergeant in that and then I think he doesn't I don't think
• 3:07:30
  he then comes back to Android Invasion.
• 3:07:32
  Not the fellow says, oh really how original know that some
• 3:07:36
  that's the guy to take over from Barry Howard in Heidi.
• 3:07:39
  That's been Harry's. Oh you're in a soccer player of
• 3:07:46
  actors. Never ever fail to impress me.
• 3:07:49
  It's a misspent youth know. There are there are other ways
• 3:07:55
  some of this but you I bet yours were much more fun.
• 3:08:00
  We'll talk. Um, you know, I was watching
• 3:08:04
  Lizette. She's very brilliant situations
• 3:08:07
  in this story. Like so she knows where the
• 3:08:10
  doctor is. She knows what he's trying to do
• 3:08:12
  and she's trying to hold out from all of them is it?
• 3:08:16
  Yeah, and she and what I like is that she kind of copes when the
• 3:08:19
  doctors not around and and you know, she can take another
• 3:08:22
  strand of the story which is what which is kind of what you
• 3:08:25
  want with a companion and really the companions that work best to
• 3:08:29
  the ones that can that can open other Avenue of Storytelling and
• 3:08:32
  not need the doctor to hold their hand or I mean, yes, I
• 3:08:37
  understand. There are so very useful for
• 3:08:39
  exposition and explaining stuff. But again, you can be a bit more
• 3:08:43
  Artful with it and you can you can introduce another character
• 3:08:46
  for that purpose. If you really need somebody to
• 3:08:48
  ask stupid questions and have the companion have a bit of
• 3:08:50
  agency, you know doing their own thing.
• 3:08:53
  That's a whole sort of extended sequence in ambassadors of
• 3:08:56
  death, isn't it where she's kidnapped?
• 3:08:58
  Yeah, and then we have all those fantastic shows with Dr. Lennox
• 3:09:02
  who she know you were respected scientist was and standing up to
• 3:09:06
  Reagan in the aliens revealing themselves, you know, she's got
• 3:09:12
  a whole strand of the story there and she holds it
• 3:09:14
  brilliantly. Asset is of death is one of the
• 3:09:17
  greatest Doctor Who stories of is fantastic and I I it saddens
• 3:09:23
  me so that I mean I was brought up to think it was, you know,
• 3:09:25
  one of the Baggins of the we over you know, and it was it was
• 3:09:31
  it was always the one that you know, oh, yes, it never quite
• 3:09:35
  worked bloody bloody lights. Absolutely.
• 3:09:36
  I love ambassadors of death. Yeah.
• 3:09:38
  I must know when you when you finally saw it.
• 3:09:40
  I must spend an eye. Yeah, and it was one of the very
• 3:09:43
  last ones I saw. Because I wasn't particularly
• 3:09:47
  bothered about getting it because it was and then I met
• 3:09:51
  some fans actually and I didn't really meet many fans and they'd
• 3:09:55
  got they'd all the episodes, you know, and they said oh and
• 3:09:58
  ambassadors of death and I was like really and then they shut
• 3:10:01
  and I and I about the the opening titles I've read about
• 3:10:05
  them. But I I not imagined them.
• 3:10:07
  You know, I knew the title came in.
• 3:10:08
  I Didn't Know It screamed in and then went Pao and then they
• 3:10:13
  showed me the first, you know minute one and that, you know
• 3:10:16
  something took off from yeah. Yeah, which is as good a
• 3:10:19
  cliffhanger as any story has ever had and it comes at the
• 3:10:20
  beginning and I went and I went oh, wow, you know and it was a
• 3:10:25
  real cause I went in with low expectations.
• 3:10:27
  And so then I you know, I borrowed it off this friend of
• 3:10:31
  mine and it catapulted it into my house.
• 3:10:36
  I was like, this is amazing with right cut it open.
• 3:10:40
  I was like now That I mean not that Cliffhanger is nothing and
• 3:10:46
  yet it's so amazing. It's all just how he says it,
• 3:10:50
  you know and and the pacing and it's when the way that Michael
• 3:10:53
  Ferguson cuts it and scores it and how many beans in five.
• 3:10:57
  Yeah. Oh the pacing of that the pacing
• 3:11:00
  of that is perfect. Oh love it, you know but
• 3:11:04
  bringing it back to talk to an asylum and I realize I did bring
• 3:11:06
  up ambassadors at there. So that's more full.
• 3:11:10
  There was a secret there a second ago between two silos
• 3:11:12
  where they were looking like projectile weapons.
• 3:11:14
  Yes. I was a really smartly written
• 3:11:18
  seen as well. Yes, and I this this is where
• 3:11:22
  he's drawing and I well I love all this race memory stuff as
• 3:11:25
  well. I mean I'm doing a deep dive
• 3:11:27
  currently in two greater mass in the pit and there are
• 3:11:30
  similarities, you know, the the idea of ancient alien force that
• 3:11:36
  the awakened some primal thing within us and Malcolm Hulk
• 3:11:41
  explains it quite nicely in the book where he talks about when
• 3:11:44
  dogs scratch the ground beneath them and that's about clearing
• 3:11:47
  the long grass that of course, we don't have any more and it
• 3:11:50
  explains how was sort of race memory or Instinct works and
• 3:11:53
  that's a that's a that's a really powerful idea that we're
• 3:11:56
  sort of prone to subconscious forces that we can't help the
• 3:12:00
  police say people jump back for things nervously because that's
• 3:12:03
  memory of the snakes and the grass and things like that sort
• 3:12:07
  of a primal. Which means that we're slave to
• 3:12:10
  some kind of yeah, you know biologically it's there.
• 3:12:13
  Yeah, which is a which is a fascinating idea and Nigel Neil
• 3:12:18
  uses it brilliantly in wasted mass of the bit to sort of
• 3:12:21
  explain away, you know feelings of racial Purity and all of that
• 3:12:25
  sort of pallava. I love the way we shake this out
• 3:12:29
  there and and Dave Carter's not quite sure what to do and this
• 3:12:32
  this other guy Nigel John's he wasn't an actor.
• 3:12:34
  He was Timothy kume you but Peter miles knew him as well and
• 3:12:38
  he's still around he was a Publican or something, but they
• 3:12:40
  wanted somebody tall. Is that playing the yeah, and he
• 3:12:46
  was very animation isn't it walks like this, but I think it
• 3:12:51
  really works because they are so totally distinct.
• 3:12:57
  Oh, that's great from a chimpanzee.
• 3:13:00
  So my major that's great. Isn't it?
• 3:13:03
  That's basic. That's you know, it's like he's
• 3:13:07
  a very good visual shorthand for the kids watching as well.
• 3:13:10
  I absolutely all of I think I think these costumes are
• 3:13:15
  magnificent. I think I think the
• 3:13:17
  characterization is a great but yeah and the race memory thing
• 3:13:21
  the Nigel Neil thing that idea that yeah that You know, we we
• 3:13:27
  have stuff that can be unlocked. and I think anything that sort
• 3:13:33
  of Brings us back to the dawn of time is somehow you know, and
• 3:13:38
  Primal forces is somehow really frightening because it suggests
• 3:13:42
  things that are bigger. Than we can ever be it suggests
• 3:13:46
  something uncontrollable that we can't do anything about and when
• 3:13:50
  you're like that you suddenly feel like you've got no agency
• 3:13:53
  and you feel suddenly very vulnerable.
• 3:13:55
  I think that's really clever. I think it's there though
• 3:13:56
  moments when you're really anxious or you get
• 3:13:59
  overwhelmingly angry, you know, you're tapping into some of
• 3:14:02
  that. Yeah, no, you know what scares
• 3:14:05
  me so long on the same lies is you know, I feel like we have
• 3:14:08
  this little veneer of politeness, you know to get by
• 3:14:12
  and Society but it's when you're putting suits and that's some
• 3:14:16
  great drama comes out of midnight where you're in a
• 3:14:20
  situation where that veneer drops.
• 3:14:23
  And just your real ugly bass emotions come out.
• 3:14:29
  Yeah, what was it? Was it JG Bella who said you
• 3:14:32
  know? Show me your civilized society
• 3:14:35
  wouldn't when they've turned the water off. you know, we're we're
• 3:14:41
  there's a gossamer thin. little membrane separating us from you
• 3:14:47
  know killing our next door neighbors in order to You know
• 3:14:51
  get a get a couple of typhoid free water for our child, you
• 3:14:57
  know, maybe our working retail and it's a fact, you know, the
• 3:15:00
  things are hard to come by at the moment.
• 3:15:01
  I mean it can get very ugly. Yeah.
• 3:15:04
  Thank you from people. Yeah.
• 3:15:07
  I know it's extraordinary, isn't it?
• 3:15:08
  I if in fact I got into trouble so social media, but I said
• 3:15:13
  something because I'd seen footage of people dumping each
• 3:15:15
  other for a Telly a Tesco's that was on I said, you know, I
• 3:15:18
  didn't manage to get a flat screen tell you when I went to
• 3:15:20
  stay but at least I retained my soul, you know, and so so you
• 3:15:25
  saying work in class people have no soul.
• 3:15:27
  No, I know loads of working class people who don't punch
• 3:15:30
  people for Italian Tesco's nothing to do with class.
• 3:15:32
  It's to do with whether you will punch somebody pretending
• 3:15:35
  Tesco's. I didn't break it to it.
• 3:15:37
  You did it. There was a there was a sequence
• 3:15:43
  just there and you just wouldn't have it on television now where
• 3:15:46
  they're all sitting around the table and the camera pans around
• 3:15:49
  every character. Islands and then settles on the
• 3:15:53
  telephone and you would not waste 15 seconds.
• 3:15:57
  Of lovely doing that and it's it's suspenseful.
• 3:16:00
  I think we kind of lost something a little bit.
• 3:16:04
  Yeah, and I you know, I totally believe I was and now Miss
• 3:16:07
  Dawson, of course in the in the book.
• 3:16:09
  She's totally different, isn't she she's because she's sort of
• 3:16:12
  she's as a because there's a couple of pictures of her she's
• 3:16:14
  got a mini skirt and a long blonde hair and she's in love
• 3:16:17
  with Dr. Quinn and and but I think she you don't see her
• 3:16:23
  again. She's with Dr. Quinn when he
• 3:16:24
  gets killed. And you don't see her again.
• 3:16:27
  So I remember when I watched this for the first time going.
• 3:16:30
  Oh, she's still in it what's gonna happen to her and she just
• 3:16:33
  vanishes off screen and they go. Oh, she's got the plague which
• 3:16:36
  is shame. But obviously we need her after
• 3:16:40
  his death to put that spanner in the work.
• 3:16:42
  So way to Yeah, I think it would have been more satisfying had we
• 3:16:48
  had a final moment with with Miss Dawson had she hung around
• 3:16:52
  and and we'd seen what happened to her.
• 3:16:55
  And you know, she either learned the era of her ways or or you
• 3:16:59
  know, provided one final spanner in the works rather than a kind
• 3:17:02
  of nobody ever wants to be dispensed with off screen, you
• 3:17:06
  know, you don't want to turn up and watch that soap you've been
• 3:17:09
  in for 10 years and and have somebody say, oh I've just died
• 3:17:12
  in a car crashing. I really oh, thanks so much
• 3:17:15
  unless it's an incredible sort of off-screen death, you know,
• 3:17:19
  we can't wait just on the right moment.
• 3:17:23
  Yeah, but I think you also want to be part of the process.
• 3:17:25
  You know, it's like this. It's like somebody, you know,
• 3:17:28
  it's been waiting to come back to us.
• 3:17:30
  So for you is and then it's just to throw away piece of dialogue
• 3:17:32
  and they say well, yeah Uncle Pete people died three years ago
• 3:17:35
  or whatever. You got off Megan dead in it.
• 3:17:37
  This is yeah. That's the picture of I love
• 3:17:41
  that shot that the Timothy coombe is a really good director
• 3:17:45
  and it's such a good job on this.
• 3:17:49
  It's such a shame. Isn't it the going over budget
• 3:17:53
  men that did you see the documentary that he was in where
• 3:17:57
  he was they were going about sort of lots of locations.
• 3:17:59
  Yeah, and he really sort of heartbreaking.
• 3:18:03
  He says I would have loved to have done more.
• 3:18:07
  Yeah, and I think it was untrue because it's because it was a
• 3:18:11
  policy you didn't have to. Obey, you know it was Barry
• 3:18:14
  Letts his choice to sort of punish him for that really if
• 3:18:19
  he'd wanted to employ him again. I don't think very let's just
• 3:18:22
  Superior with a stopped him because I think this is very
• 3:18:26
  well directed, but I think my devil is even better.
• 3:18:29
  I might even cracking it's the action stuff in that and and
• 3:18:36
  again, it's got its got a very it's got a very sort of gritty
• 3:18:39
  plausibility about it that I rather like there's just like
• 3:18:43
  injury from that like that high angle shot when young fellas in
• 3:18:48
  the chair in episode 1 coming down and it's very clinical or
• 3:18:52
  the master with the missile behind him or the scaling the
• 3:18:56
  walls of the castle, you know, and it's just see it into my
• 3:18:59
  brain fabulous. Fabulous know and I think he
• 3:19:03
  does wonders with this especially as you know, you have
• 3:19:06
  quite a lot of scenes of you know, that the first has been
• 3:19:08
  coined squabbling rubber but they but they they really work
• 3:19:13
  and I love this. I remember when I was
• 3:19:16
  recommended this by Colin at the place who did me my butal videos
• 3:19:22
  and I said and I said but isn't it isn't it isn't seven episodes
• 3:19:25
  isn't it a bit long? Because the books not that long
• 3:19:27
  I said, I know because you know because it earns it seven
• 3:19:31
  episodes because just when you think you've got the plague
• 3:19:34
  Story coming in and I think story is fantastic and actually
• 3:19:38
  if you break it down to what it is.
• 3:19:40
  It's got some wonderful set piece is but essentially Dr. Who
• 3:19:43
  Sold It by sitting in a lab squeezing you would never have
• 3:19:48
  to die as well. I don't think there's no there's
• 3:19:51
  there's nothing in the Cure that is reflected in the plot.
• 3:19:54
  It's not like he goes. Oh, yes that substance we found
• 3:19:57
  in episode 1 that did this that is but you know, it's it's like
• 3:20:03
  it gets it gets sort of away with murder slightly in terms of
• 3:20:08
  but it's done so well. I think if you were in that
• 3:20:13
  situation, you would sit there with a load of test tubes do in
• 3:20:16
  a bunch of science trying to figure out the Cure and that's
• 3:20:18
  exactly what we do. But I yeah, but I think in a in
• 3:20:22
  a doctor who now if you had that The Cure would have to be
• 3:20:25
  embedded in the plot already because otherwise the viewer has
• 3:20:30
  no I'm trying to think of in with it.
• 3:20:33
  You know what I mean? Yeah would have to be you know a
• 3:20:36
  bit like how the cure for the green death is is Dr. Jones is
• 3:20:40
  mushroom, you know, it's organic more the one sentence but it's
• 3:20:44
  so it's organic to the story. I love I love this.
• 3:20:48
  I was making you are very very ill and he's and he's not
• 3:20:53
  unkind. But he's not going to go
• 3:20:57
  anywhere here stand on the table if necessary.
• 3:21:00
  Do you know for major Baker when John put we screams, you know,
• 3:21:05
  look at it you know and I I really like the makeup of the of
• 3:21:12
  the plague as well. I think it's really it's simple
• 3:21:15
  but effective but it was yeah, we're sort of bruised and yeah
• 3:21:20
  moldy fruit. Yeah poor old major Baker.
• 3:21:25
  Um, so we've got we've got its on the on our side.
• 3:21:30
  We've got the doctor and on the side side, we've got you know,
• 3:21:34
  the old man on our side. We've got Baker and the
• 3:21:37
  Brigadier and on that side. There are sort of parallels here
• 3:21:40
  aren't absolutely and I think it's so sad that O'Dell or old
• 3:21:45
  silurian is killed. And I like the way he repeated
• 3:21:48
  because he doesn't go. I'm the leader now and then when
• 3:21:51
  the other Solarium bug is off he goes I am the leader now, he has
• 3:21:55
  a little moment to himself where he very sort of goes.
• 3:21:58
  Yeah, I'm digging this. I've been waiting for this day.
• 3:22:01
  It's a bit like one of our one of my favorite it's a bit like
• 3:22:05
  there's a bit an enemy of the world where the scene ends and
• 3:22:08
  Milton John's is sitting in his chair and it just it just Waits
• 3:22:12
  before cutting away and he sit and he really likes sitting in
• 3:22:16
  his chair because it is powerful chair that shows his position
• 3:22:19
  and Milton John's just a moment going.
• 3:22:22
  I'm really enjoying sitting in this chair and it's just
• 3:22:24
  gorgeous. And that's what an actor can
• 3:22:29
  bring them, isn't it? Yeah.
• 3:22:30
  Oh, I mean little touches know I love you always happens in these
• 3:22:36
  sort of disease dramas, but I just I do love how this very
• 3:22:39
  quickly gets out of control. Yeah, and they economically sort
• 3:22:44
  of suggest, you know, all the first one abroad.
• 3:22:47
  You know it the scale of it grows very quickly.
• 3:22:50
  Yes. It's I I think it's very nicely
• 3:22:54
  done in the book as well. Which you can't do it where
• 3:22:56
  doesn't he? They stopped the train don't
• 3:22:59
  they that Masters is on and he gets off the train and he gets a
• 3:23:02
  cab with with a cab driver called jockey.
• 3:23:04
  I think he's still and and so and because he's trying to get
• 3:23:08
  back to London but in so doing he then infects Chuck dangi who
• 3:23:14
  then first. It's like the sort of opening
• 3:23:16
  titles of survivors, you know, you kind of see it.
• 3:23:18
  It's Fred and and we have a suggestion of that here.
• 3:23:22
  He's not feeling very well. And I love the way Peter miles.
• 3:23:26
  Does that line to himself? But essentially yeah Masters is
• 3:23:30
  off to to spread the plague, but I think again now you'd see it
• 3:23:34
  you'd see people getting touched and you'd see it spread.
• 3:23:37
  Oh, this is so that's the end. Look at those blotches all over
• 3:23:42
  his face. And I like the way they don't do
• 3:23:45
  a close-up and it's a it's not a moment of Jeopardy is it it's
• 3:23:49
  okay. We're in the ship.
• 3:23:51
  Yeah. It's a wonderful Cliffhanger.
• 3:23:54
  And and again, I think I think with our, you know prediction
• 3:23:58
  for money shots these days we'd we'd expect a big close-up and
• 3:24:04
  actually I think because I still don't quite know what that what
• 3:24:09
  that make up looks like. It's it's all the more
• 3:24:11
  intriguing to me. It's more the more unsettling
• 3:24:14
  because I only kind of got a glimpse of it, you know,
• 3:24:16
  sometimes less is more and I love a cliffhanger that isn't
• 3:24:19
  kill them kill them now. So a cliffhanger that is the
• 3:24:23
  doctor going that's just the first you go.
• 3:24:26
  Oh love it. He will post pandemic.
• 3:24:29
  This has a bit of resonance now as well.
• 3:24:30
  That's yes. It's I just like to say it's all
• 3:24:35
  a government conspiracy and wake up you sheeple and he okay.
• 3:24:41
  So I need to read invent myself as an edge.
• 3:24:43
  Lord should should be news open up a doctor who slot and I'm a
• 3:24:48
  bit shorter cash. Yeah, well, it's far bit from me
• 3:24:52
  to spoil. What was I had so much fun with
• 3:24:55
  that episode. I'm gonna ask you a question now
• 3:24:58
  from Jonathan Morris or Johnny Swiss friends how asks?
• 3:25:02
  Um, how many episodes shorter. Should it be?
• 3:25:05
  Oh go fuck yourself Johnny and I don't normally swear on Doctor
• 3:25:08
  Who conscious none Johnny none because all of the extra
• 3:25:15
  Jeopardy that is layered on Works within the plot.
• 3:25:18
  It's all very exciting and none of it.
• 3:25:20
  You know, none of it is sort of vacuous sort of showcases.
• 3:25:26
  You know, that sometimes pad things out.
• 3:25:28
  I think it's all I think it all develops the story very nice
• 3:25:32
  nicely. I think the plague stuff has as
• 3:25:34
  we've discussed that it's kind of got out of You know within
• 3:25:39
  one bound. Well not in one Bound in several
• 3:25:42
  quite laborious short steps, but but I don't find that episode
• 3:25:46
  and episode. We're about to watch tedious at
• 3:25:49
  all. I find it gripping and exciting
• 3:25:50
  because it's a it's brought another piece of drama into it.
• 3:25:53
  I love the slow build up that it has I love us not seeing the
• 3:25:57
  silurian till the end of episode three.
• 3:25:58
  And again, I don't feel like sometimes when you're watching
• 3:26:01
  the first episode of a darling story you go.
• 3:26:02
  We're just killing time to that first Cliffhanger.
• 3:26:04
  I don't feel like that in this story.
• 3:26:06
  I feel you're being dripped something but while the stuff is
• 3:26:11
  dripping it is it is slaking your thirst.
• 3:26:14
  It's landing on your tongue, you know, and I don't think there's
• 3:26:18
  anything I would I I think with all of the seven parties the
• 3:26:22
  last episode is always a bit of a damp squib.
• 3:26:24
  It's a curious one. I think they learn how to end
• 3:26:27
  stories better. Once they put the seven parties
• 3:26:30
  behind them. And I don't think I don't see a
• 3:26:33
  reason why a seven partition should end on a damp script, but
• 3:26:35
  I think all of the last episodes of The Seven parties ah Slightly
• 3:26:40
  less than what has gone before with the possible actually
• 3:26:43
  exception of this one, which I was gonna say.
• 3:26:45
  I think this is this exception. I think this has a wonderful
• 3:26:47
  that particularly that coder it's bizarre.
• 3:26:50
  How much of a gut punch it is give yeah.
• 3:26:52
  It's kind of an inevitable conclusion.
• 3:26:54
  Yeah. No, it's it's a beautiful I
• 3:26:57
  mean, but that's literally the ending that like the last couple
• 3:26:59
  of minutes, but I think the final episode is is you know, a
• 3:27:03
  bit lower key as you know, it's it's all kind of countdowns in
• 3:27:06
  bases which happens in each of episode 7 of season 7 really and
• 3:27:12
  by then a lot of people are dead.
• 3:27:14
  So there are isn't even that many people to talk to but I I
• 3:27:20
  would not I would not lose him. You know, it would mean losing
• 3:27:25
  Travis or lose travel. No, I don't think there's
• 3:27:32
  anything that I would that I would lose so none Johnny
• 3:27:36
  Morris. You're Cheeky Monkey.
• 3:27:37
  And you know, I'll just mention I'll just mention the accent of
• 3:27:47
  A Schultz the astronaut in the 10th planet to shut you up
• 3:27:50
  because he wants a very rude article about the accent of the
• 3:27:55
  actor playing Schultz in the 10th Planet who was actually in
• 3:27:58
  Australian actor using his own accent.
• 3:27:59
  So to me, that means Johnny can now not say anything about
• 3:28:03
  anything that is evidence that everything he says is wrong.
• 3:28:08
  What I saw this podcast is now we're seriously, right?
• 3:28:11
  That's that's me do my own offensive archeology.
• 3:28:14
  You wrote one line in an article in a doctor who magazine 10
• 3:28:19
  years ago. That was incorrect.
• 3:28:20
  So now everything you say is open to question and morally
• 3:28:24
  redundant Doctor Who fans never forget.
• 3:29:04
  quicker Welcome back to hamster with a blumpkin knife the Doctor
• 3:29:14
  Who commentary podcast. I am here with the Glorious toe
• 3:29:20
  behind Oak. Say hello, Toby.
• 3:29:22
  Hello, Joe. Nice to talk to you.
• 3:29:24
  The people call you glorious a lot know, well, they should.
• 3:29:28
  Oh, sorry. Are you feeling bold enough to
• 3:29:35
  have another question throwing at you about Doctor Who in the
• 3:29:38
  silurians Romney any questions that you like?
• 3:29:41
  Okay. Well, we did have a 15 minute
• 3:29:43
  conversation about Harry Bliss and before pressing play on a
• 3:29:46
  previous episode. However, Jim Allenby asks is
• 3:29:50
  Carrie blyton's music for this story easier to stomach that in
• 3:29:54
  depth to the Daleks or Avenger the assignment I want to know if
• 3:29:57
  that's Jim Allen be the former professional cricketer who used
• 3:30:01
  to me enormous amounts of points in the fantasy cricket league
• 3:30:04
  that I still play to this day with Paul Cornell and various
• 3:30:08
  other but Steve Hatcher at various other people not all of
• 3:30:10
  them connected with Doctor Who and I know it's not but it's
• 3:30:14
  just fun because I've seen this gym on Twitter, of course as
• 3:30:18
  well. And hello Jim.
• 3:30:20
  Thank you for your namesake scoring me some superb points in
• 3:30:24
  fantasy in my Heyday. I've got off a bit now, but I'm
• 3:30:28
  very comfortable in my team this year, but you don't want to know
• 3:30:30
  that you want to know about care.
• 3:30:33
  I think I think this is I think this is the most distinctive
• 3:30:38
  carry black Score. I love the sort of dripping
• 3:30:40
  water, you know sound composition that the company is
• 3:30:46
  the business in the caves. I admire the Hutts part of the
• 3:30:49
  you know, robots indigestion. That is the you know pop in a
• 3:30:57
  blender that is the you know, asthmatic kazoo or whatever you
• 3:31:02
  want to call it. You know, the the dying Cybermen
• 3:31:06
  playing a harmonica. However, you want to describe
• 3:31:08
  that that particular. All right, but I it's I I always
• 3:31:15
  admire. Something that as a Bosch that
• 3:31:19
  goes you know that instead of going well, let's just do what
• 3:31:22
  we always do you go well, it's Doctor Who let's why don't we
• 3:31:26
  try playing it on a Cyborg's comb and see what happens and
• 3:31:33
  yeah. Why don't we try rubbing a nit
• 3:31:37
  comb on a side of Man's Chest unit and see if it makes music
• 3:31:41
  very happy in a big wind and I and I think I mean it is odd.
• 3:31:50
  But I think but I I kind of I I associate it so with the story
• 3:31:54
  that I I can't imagine the story without it.
• 3:31:58
  And I and I think it gives the story a unique. feel and I
• 3:32:03
  always like it when a doctor who story is kind of You know, you
• 3:32:07
  can kind of go. Well, it's not an identical
• 3:32:09
  story. It's it's carved out its own its
• 3:32:11
  own Niche and I think and I don't think it robs.
• 3:32:16
  The story of Menace in the way that I think the rather, you
• 3:32:22
  know George from Rainbow having a conversation with the moomins
• 3:32:26
  clarinet of death to the dollies who looks you be interested in
• 3:32:33
  but yeah, and it sort of like, oh look just having a little
• 3:32:38
  romp on the planet and you just say you're gonna score the most
• 3:32:41
  terrifying creatures. You just gonna go quick fun and
• 3:32:46
  and revenge. I mean they has had a bit of
• 3:32:49
  augmentation itself hasn't it weed in Peter how to augmented a
• 3:32:53
  bit. I mean, I again, I quite like
• 3:32:55
  the sort of scratchy gyro, you know of the of the Cyber mats.
• 3:33:00
  Yeah, but I I don't think it's I think it's a bit more of a
• 3:33:05
  generic. It's a generic school not done
• 3:33:07
  particularly. Well, I think revenge it's fine.
• 3:33:11
  Whereas I think salarians isn't the tempted to do something that
• 3:33:16
  is Isn't a generic score. So even if it's not 100%
• 3:33:20
  perfect, I think it you know, when something goes down in
• 3:33:23
  flames it lights up the sky, you know what I mean?
• 3:33:25
  So and I think that's how you should do it.
• 3:33:27
  So I I think it's my favorite of the carry Blyton scores and I
• 3:33:31
  wouldn't have it any other way. I don't think if you ask any
• 3:33:34
  Doctor Who fans who whom music from?
• 3:33:37
  Okay not maybe Deep dive. There's like you and me but you
• 3:33:41
  know the average Doctor Who fan to whom music from a Dudley
• 3:33:44
  Simpson score from I don't know the late William's here.
• 3:33:47
  They might have a bit of trouble.
• 3:33:49
  But if you are saying Doctor Who fans who harm the music from
• 3:33:52
  doctor in asylums, I think that have any trouble at all.
• 3:33:56
  Well, yes and you I mean you can do this with a certain cognitive
• 3:33:59
  dissonance. I mean, there's no doubt that
• 3:34:00
  Dudley Simpson was superb and and you know, there's a reason
• 3:34:04
  they got him to score so much Doctor Who is because he spoke
• 3:34:07
  he spoke the tone and the tenor of Doctor Who fluently but but a
• 3:34:12
  lot of his music is unobtrusive and you would go well that's
• 3:34:15
  what incidental music should be. It's like the good Lighting in a
• 3:34:18
  theater show. It's only good if you don't
• 3:34:19
  notice it if it draws attention to itself, it's not really doing
• 3:34:22
  its job properly. It's being a little too
• 3:34:24
  self-conscious so I you know to from and I'm not a musician so I
• 3:34:29
  understand from a musician's point of view who might go well
• 3:34:31
  a whole point of good instant or music is that it, you know, it
• 3:34:34
  underscores it feeds in the mood but you don't particularly
• 3:34:38
  notice it and I couldn't whom you much Dudley Simpson at all.
• 3:34:42
  So in a way Dudley Simpson has done his job, but as somebody
• 3:34:45
  who's not musical who likes Doctor Who and likes things that
• 3:34:50
  stick in my head, you know, I am much more of a fan of those
• 3:34:54
  scores that stick out to me that have us sort of story to tell
• 3:34:58
  even though probably objectively those sort of identical Simpsons
• 3:35:02
  scores of you know, Genesis and pyramids and all of those which
• 3:35:05
  are which to me a slightly interchangeable.
• 3:35:08
  And again, I'm sure a proper musician would be able to go.
• 3:35:11
  Oh, no because I think you'll find this is that and this is
• 3:35:13
  that or whatever and quite oh nobody is putting this on to
• 3:35:22
  listen to as a sound track. Well, I hope they're not funking
• 3:35:26
  down to this at the doctors ratio down in down in the I'm
• 3:35:31
  sure the Gallifrey Club in Brighton.
• 3:35:32
  I mean, I'm sure there is one. I've never invited.
• 3:35:35
  Yeah bloke over as tried to romance him.
• 3:35:38
  We've carried blind score talk to the silurians.
• 3:35:41
  Have you ever tried to romance a bloke with any kind of Doctor
• 3:35:46
  Who? Phenomenally.
• 3:35:48
  Well, my partner's a dog who fan now so yeah.
• 3:35:50
  Yeah, I know but was was was was Doctor Who away of access or
• 3:35:56
  alluded in with the Android Invasion because I know it's his
• 3:36:01
  favorite. Oh really?
• 3:36:03
  That's I mean, that's probably the only time I love that has
• 3:36:12
  been used quite we're playing at The Darlings.
• 3:36:15
  That's his other favorite is a very eclectic taste, right?
• 3:36:18
  Yeah, he's yeah, he's he doesn't go for the favorites.
• 3:36:22
  Does he I love him for it. I'll say what let's press play
• 3:36:28
  on six. Yeah, I've got to ask you some
• 3:36:32
  of these questions as we go because there's quite a few
• 3:36:33
  more. Good because I can't think of
• 3:36:36
  anything else to say he won't count as in then in by four
• 3:36:41
  three two, one off we go. Okay.
• 3:36:46
  So Darren lit roundels says I first saw the black and white
• 3:36:50
  version on UK gold and it made the story feel quite cozy
• 3:36:54
  something. I'm always drawn to the thing
• 3:36:57
  about the Sailor is is they're represented as gray just as
• 3:37:00
  different in their ideas as human that every story sinus has
• 3:37:04
  forgotten that they're fawned over as perfect despite doing
• 3:37:08
  nothing to justify that response.
• 3:37:11
  Especially annoying since Warriors of the deep where the
• 3:37:13
  doctor rages against the humans for defending themselves.
• 3:37:17
  He's not asking. Well, he's making good it.
• 3:37:20
  Yes. It's it's a very simplistic take
• 3:37:23
  they've sort of got the oh, yes this you know that the whole
• 3:37:26
  Twist of doctor and I still learns is that actually the
• 3:37:29
  salarians aren't bad and we are bad blowing them up and they've
• 3:37:32
  transposed that idea into Warriors of the deep and then
• 3:37:36
  have the silurians do precisely nothing.
• 3:37:39
  To the only thing we've got to go on that the syrians are nice
• 3:37:41
  is that the doctor keeps telling us but they they do absolutely
• 3:37:45
  nothing to show that so I mean, it's it's it really falls down
• 3:37:51
  in that regard and I actually rather like worries of the deep.
• 3:37:53
  I think it's quite a fun sort of action adventure based under
• 3:37:56
  siege kind of thing going on. I quite like kind of Johnny
• 3:38:01
  Morris and Johnny Morris choose that one for Happy Times.
• 3:38:03
  Yeah contrary Parker. Yeah.
• 3:38:06
  So what does he know one of these two nurses?
• 3:38:09
  Not that one the other one is Bella emberg.
• 3:38:12
  It's not lemon is mate. I want to see a face.
• 3:38:16
  That one is just running there. That's better Ember.
• 3:38:21
  Say he never too old to learn. I am now, um, but what we
• 3:38:30
  thought yeah, so and and then and I thought that was the floor
• 3:38:33
  with the with the the silurian. Won.
• 3:38:39
  The hungrier was that again. You know, we were told that they
• 3:38:44
  would know but but the captured silurian spent the whole thing
• 3:38:47
  trying to provoke the humans into killing her and you go.
• 3:38:51
  Well anybody reasonable to say well she just I mean she
• 3:38:55
  essentially jumped on a gun that's not us that's not us
• 3:38:58
  being genocidal humans. That's you know, that's that's
• 3:39:01
  to get a script to a certain place and and then you had the
• 3:39:05
  doctor say leery in guy who was basically doctor Mengele.
• 3:39:08
  Yeah, and then his doctor lovely at this.
• 3:39:11
  So for the for the purpose of the Cliffhanger is like
• 3:39:16
  brandishing a scalpel, right? And then he's the one that's
• 3:39:20
  trust me broke her in peace what is coming on and I I I'm afraid
• 3:39:25
  you know for characters that are called old young and scientists
• 3:39:28
  in this there's a they've got more character than the ones
• 3:39:32
  who've got space names in in the in the in the in the chimple two
• 3:39:37
  part. I'm afraid and Darren lit
• 3:39:40
  roundels asked she specifically asked.
• 3:39:43
  A question. He says just one question.
• 3:39:44
  Well, are you going oh He adds greasy comb over Falls over
• 3:39:53
  face. haha, well I did it's so long ago since we did that it's
• 3:39:58
  not that long ago be very briefly touched on it, but not
• 3:40:01
  in a lot of depth, but did we talked about how in in the
• 3:40:04
  making of documentary Peter miles has more hair when he's
• 3:40:09
  talking in the present day about talk to the sirens that he has
• 3:40:13
  in the clip that they cut to him why that is But I adore Peter
• 3:40:20
  miles in this I think he's so good.
• 3:40:25
  I still think that one of the best deaths it is in it is it's
• 3:40:30
  showing it's an actor not dying attractively.
• 3:40:33
  It's great fun dying attractively, you know a good
• 3:40:36
  death scene can make you all Noble and and you know
• 3:40:40
  vulnerable but in a kind of oh God, he's moved us, you know,
• 3:40:43
  you can get you can get points for moving and audience because
• 3:40:45
  you die so sadly and nobly and its mother because you know,
• 3:40:49
  it's a great thing for kids. He interacted to do to go look
• 3:40:53
  at me being so Noble and comfortable with that.
• 3:40:55
  It actually takes a I think a really selfless actor to go.
• 3:40:58
  No, I'm gonna I'm gonna make death look awkward and horrible
• 3:41:01
  and uncomfortable because actually physical violence does
• 3:41:05
  look like that and uncomfortable situations are uncomfortable
• 3:41:10
  because they're ungainly and awkward this stuff in the
• 3:41:14
  station is ice amazing, isn't it?
• 3:41:17
  Yeah. Yeah, all of this film work that
• 3:41:19
  Tim coombe does in in this room and this this has a scale modern
• 3:41:26
  day scale that if you think how often doctors has been in the
• 3:41:28
  modern day up to this point that you then get spearhead with its
• 3:41:32
  High Street Massacre and then this with its, you know, death
• 3:41:36
  of a train station and Trevor Ray there the assistant script
• 3:41:39
  editor who was no mean actor. He's an amazing sort of face Pub
• 3:41:44
  in a minute. Yeah, but yes, that's what the
• 3:41:48
  strange I think actually this does.
• 3:41:53
  It convincingly sells the idea of the plate spreading better
• 3:41:57
  than the first episode of survivors.
• 3:41:58
  I was quite surprised actually how so in homes that was Yes, I
• 3:42:04
  think the first episode of survivors is very effective but
• 3:42:07
  you're right. It does a slightly different
• 3:42:09
  thing. It's kind of its you become
• 3:42:12
  aware of the extent of it from a small sort of nucleus.
• 3:42:16
  Whereas this actually spreads it outwards that he doesn't get a
• 3:42:20
  credit on this but that's in Evans who is who is die the
• 3:42:24
  minor in in the green death and he's also the the Exelon with
• 3:42:28
  the booming singing voice in the excellent high priest.
• 3:42:31
  Oh and I think he died on the 23rd of November.
• 3:42:36
  He died on Dr. Whose birthday I think you know, it's on is
• 3:42:40
  unusual for Doctor Who to take the expensive route.
• 3:42:43
  So instead of just going. Oh, he's got you know, he's gone
• 3:42:45
  on a train and he's gonna attack sea and he's had contact with
• 3:42:49
  all these people know, we're actually gonna we're gonna head
• 3:42:51
  off to Marilyn bone station or wherever they are.
• 3:42:53
  Yeah whole thing looks so great and when the camera pans out so
• 3:42:57
  you can see it from a yeah, you can see it from a sort of
• 3:43:00
  distance and you know, it's really good.
• 3:43:08
  It's really good. It's got it.
• 3:43:10
  It's got a great sense of scale about it and and a kind of sets
• 3:43:14
  of but I get on a train I go to train station.
• 3:43:17
  So what I could get on a train one day and just be in a
• 3:43:19
  carriage with this guy and I'm dead.
• 3:43:22
  That's horrible. I think I think whatever fiction
• 3:43:25
  reminds me of this, you know, how easy germs can spread it's
• 3:43:28
  scary. But you know, this is this is
• 3:43:31
  The series that not that long ago was doing the croutons.
• 3:43:34
  Yeah, I love the croutons, but but You know, it's it.
• 3:43:43
  It's it's sophistication is is somewhat limited you can see why
• 3:43:47
  this captured people can't you can see what sort of pulled away
• 3:43:51
  at the end of six and I've come along and say wow.
• 3:43:54
  This is much more sophisticated. I love the 60s.
• 3:43:57
  I love trapped. I love black and white VIP, but
• 3:44:00
  this is a Renaissance that the launch of the Weir is a
• 3:44:03
  Renaissance for the show. And you know, Derek showmen
• 3:44:07
  wasn't around long, but he did he did totally rejig the show
• 3:44:11
  from what it was into what it became. very very effectively
• 3:44:16
  and and and I think You know, it was on borrowed time and this
• 3:44:20
  gave it a whole new lease of life.
• 3:44:24
  I've got a little statement from loose in the call about the
• 3:44:28
  story. She's always Hello Lucy McCall.
• 3:44:32
  I like the tension between the voice is for peace on both sides
• 3:44:35
  and those in favor of Destruction, which turns out to
• 3:44:38
  be the stronger in the end. I know the Brigadier is
• 3:44:41
  criticized for sealing the silurians in but given
• 3:44:43
  everything it was always going to happen.
• 3:44:45
  The play part is really frightening.
• 3:44:48
  It takes the drama from the slightly Fantastical setting of
• 3:44:51
  the lab and caves to the real world.
• 3:44:53
  The cast is great. Peter miles has what must be one
• 3:44:57
  of the best ever moments in there's nothing wrong with
• 3:45:01
  sorry. He has one of the best ever.
• 3:45:03
  There's nothing wrong with me moments in all of Science
• 3:45:06
  Fiction and Fulton. McKay is nice Lee Shifty.
• 3:45:09
  So yes, I like it a lot and I'll stop now before I review the
• 3:45:13
  whole lot. That's very nice.
• 3:45:15
  They put and true David G asks is hello.
• 3:45:20
  Are you a soldier in one of the most doctoral movies in the
• 3:45:24
  whole series with kind of yeah it is and I think but I think
• 3:45:27
  it's all matched by, you know, gentlemen or whatever.
• 3:45:31
  It is really comes in and speaks to the three of them.
• 3:45:33
  Oh, it's later. He's very good at impassivity
• 3:45:38
  Peter miles, you know, he's not moving many muscles in his face.
• 3:45:42
  You know, it's it's all in the eyes the rest of him fairly
• 3:45:47
  deadpan. Ah, I mean this this this huge
• 3:45:52
  things at stake for him here isn't he knows that this is
• 3:45:55
  dissolved in his career is down the pan.
• 3:45:59
  You know and you know, I have to say I met Peter miles he was
• 3:46:03
  batty as a fruitcake. I met Paul Darrow.
• 3:46:05
  He was a he was a loon and I have to say And it's why I don't
• 3:46:12
  sort of. Put much that serious on on
• 3:46:15
  social media. There's a real earnestness these
• 3:46:17
  days that created feel the need to do sort of, you know, I'm in
• 3:46:22
  that television program so that and I know that people need to
• 3:46:25
  use a platform to do good. I totally understand that but
• 3:46:28
  you know what I kind of missed the back the acting profession
• 3:46:33
  that I was sort of drawn to be a part of was part of that draw
• 3:46:36
  was because everyone was a bit. Okay Bonkers and you had a great
• 3:46:42
  and and people would throw stories and be Indiscreet and
• 3:46:45
  there was a certain amount of you know and sometimes not not
• 3:46:51
  very nice, but sort of and sometimes not very nice to be on
• 3:46:53
  the receiving end of but it was quite difficult to pass it, but
• 3:46:57
  I I kind of I I you know, it's one of the reasons I love
• 3:47:01
  meeting all of these these you know, these these venerable old
• 3:47:06
  theft sewer sadly now a Dying Breed because there is a certain
• 3:47:10
  amount of barking this that is hugely enjoyable and great fun.
• 3:47:16
  But that's that sort of creative spark that then went on.
• 3:47:21
  Can be used to give sort of interesting and fun performance.
• 3:47:23
  Is this Joe? Who's this Soldier?
• 3:47:26
  Tell me this is private Evans from the drivers from the web of
• 3:47:32
  fear. Oh my God, it is too who you
• 3:47:35
  know, it's I'm so pleased they didn't make him the same one
• 3:47:37
  just to kill him almost immediately.
• 3:47:40
  Is it just one scene? He is in.
• 3:47:41
  Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.
• 3:47:45
  Yeah, so and I'm sure an interview with Mervin hazeman
• 3:47:50
  saying that you know when they were considering doing unit as a
• 3:47:54
  regular thing. They give us a thought to
• 3:47:56
  Bringing Evans back but decide not to because it would be cruel
• 3:48:00
  on the Welsh. So in steady gets to do that and
• 3:48:03
  this and this is recognized him who's like within the star.
• 3:48:08
  She's the one who's in charge of the prison in episode two of the
• 3:48:12
  war games he all so uh the Geordie guard in Mark of the
• 3:48:23
  Ronnie Lord Is it by the Lord, you know Terence Alexander's
• 3:48:28
  sort of guard guy who gets very Lobster to do and he's also I've
• 3:48:34
  just an extra increased on the pit.
• 3:48:36
  You can see him Richard Steele he's called so yeah, he does say
• 3:48:41
  in the war games is Heaven is a great fight in that.
• 3:48:43
  Yeah, how dare you treat me like this go back to what you say in
• 3:48:50
  a second ago there about the the inherent Luna sea of the actors
• 3:48:55
  of the time do you? Think perhaps people tell the
• 3:49:01
  line now because there is that sort of immediacy in people
• 3:49:04
  reacting to having met people and you know because of social
• 3:49:08
  media, we obviously it wasn't as relevant back then was it, you
• 3:49:12
  know, you could you could you could be an asshole in a green
• 3:49:16
  room and there would be no evidence of it and and it would
• 3:49:18
  be forgotten the next day now, unfortunately, we you know, we
• 3:49:21
  scrutinize her now. This is not to say that we
• 3:49:24
  haven't also wiped out loads of really bad behavior and some you
• 3:49:28
  know, some quite toxic Behavior particularly from you know
• 3:49:32
  people in positions of power particularly from Men in
• 3:49:36
  positions of power I get I'm not talking about that.
• 3:49:39
  I'm not going. Oh, yes, we should be able to
• 3:49:41
  have directors forcing themselves on young women it but
• 3:49:43
  I don't mean that but we should whilst getting rid of that.
• 3:49:47
  We should all be able to keep Peter Miles because back is a
• 3:49:50
  fruitcake and that eccentricity is completely been white out.
• 3:49:59
  So much on that eccentricity know I I don't think it has on
• 3:50:03
  it's all about it's all about. Balance and I certainly don't
• 3:50:07
  want to be a oh, it was better in the old days because we have
• 3:50:10
  we have loads great actors. Now.
• 3:50:12
  We have loads of interesting characters and all sorts of
• 3:50:14
  stuff. I I just I don't know.
• 3:50:18
  I was just watching miles there and thinking about Darrow.
• 3:50:22
  I was I was thinking. How sort of earnest things have
• 3:50:27
  got these days but the pendulum swings and and of course all of
• 3:50:31
  that stuff has been bred from a need to make certain changes
• 3:50:36
  within the industry. I'm I'm not blind to that nor am
• 3:50:39
  I and undermining that but um, sorry to interrupt you how he
• 3:50:46
  economic is this story telling here?
• 3:50:47
  Oh, it's brilliant. I love a montage.
• 3:50:49
  We didn't hear on the phone. The doctor was a test shoes to
• 3:50:53
  the station with people don't you see the shot as well behind
• 3:50:56
  the cat the ambulance? Yeah again, and I thought
• 3:50:59
  initially I thought that was a stock shot and then it stops by
• 3:51:02
  a load of corpses on my own they feel that no and then there's
• 3:51:06
  this bit with with Master's is death where you get the the
• 3:51:10
  railings that it goes one way and he goes the other way and
• 3:51:13
  the screaming woman is Michael as wife Elizabeth power who was
• 3:51:17
  the woman that had an affair with Arthur Fowler in
• 3:51:19
  EastEnders. There you go.
• 3:51:20
  You can have that for free meals whatever.
• 3:51:22
  She was cool. What was her name?
• 3:51:26
  Mr. Cold I remember vividly though.
• 3:51:30
  Welcome, basically remember Pauline knocking him out with
• 3:51:32
  the source button. Yeah, but I love that death of
• 3:51:37
  and and it's little things like the fact it's obviously filmed
• 3:51:39
  either early in the morning or when it's really cool.
• 3:51:41
  You can see his breath, you know, those little bits of
• 3:51:44
  things that just make it he remembered that shot Tim Kuhn,
• 3:51:47
  you know, because when Benson collapses in the mind of evil,
• 3:51:49
  he goes beyond railings again, doesn't it?
• 3:51:51
  Yeah, and it's nice and it gives you because of the way that the
• 3:51:54
  camera can't quite process the picture it gives it a woozy kind
• 3:51:58
  of quality about it. It's very good statement of
• 3:52:02
  Dramas to as well for below like that.
• 3:52:05
  There we go about with test tubes but I have to say is damn
• 3:52:10
  good at all of this this kind of business the it's science tried
• 3:52:15
  to say and I'm really don't need to be having somebody that's
• 3:52:18
  really that looks really convincing squeezing things into
• 3:52:21
  test tubes and using a microscope.
• 3:52:25
  Is you know it could so easily be undermined by an actor
• 3:52:29
  without? Hurt was sort of Panache and
• 3:52:32
  Knack. He's a very capable man, you
• 3:52:34
  know, you can imagine he would jump on a motorbike and
• 3:52:36
  immediately know how to drive it you can you can imagine you
• 3:52:38
  could you know, throw him a piece of a broken food processor
• 3:52:42
  and be able to have a look at it and work at amend it.
• 3:52:43
  He he carries off all of this stuff with a sort of effortless
• 3:52:48
  skill that isn't showing that isn't that isn't demonstrative.
• 3:52:52
  It's just a sort of innate competence that you kind of need
• 3:52:56
  from the doctor which which makes you feel reassured in
• 3:52:59
  these moments of of Jeopardy that you know, he can do all of
• 3:53:02
  this stuff and he looks he looks like a real process when I was
• 3:53:06
  watching cursor pellet. There's a secret there where
• 3:53:08
  Arcturus is having a bit of a nervous breakdown and poetry is
• 3:53:12
  there in the guts of this thing clearly just you know, stabbing
• 3:53:15
  it with a screwdriver but was so much conviction.
• 3:53:18
  Yeah, or you didn't think about death to the dialects episode 4
• 3:53:22
  where he's giving the city a nervous breakdown.
• 3:53:24
  He's pulling out all these bits of circuits and just do it.
• 3:53:27
  You absolutely convinced. Yeah.
• 3:53:29
  He's really Good at all of that stuff and she knows he does.
• 3:53:33
  He does a wonderful thing for the kids where she gives him the
• 3:53:36
  shore and oh, yeah, it was agnese.
• 3:53:39
  Yeah, love it didn't yeah, it's fantastic.
• 3:53:43
  You know, I really Like these themes of the two of them
• 3:53:48
  working together on like a scientific problem.
• 3:53:51
  I I don't see or doesn't work about this.
• 3:53:55
  No, I really like it too. And you know Liz Liz still
• 3:53:59
  managed to get into Jeopardy, you know, she's still managed to
• 3:54:01
  get kidnapped. But and you know and Joe as you
• 3:54:05
  say wasn't useless it wasn't that you know, we we traded for
• 3:54:10
  somebody incompetent Joe is Scotty and funky but she's also
• 3:54:13
  yeah an escape to you know, who's who's got the smarts?
• 3:54:17
  So in comparison officials there, you know being rainy and
• 3:54:20
  helping out and things whereas Joe sort of Spills the fungus
• 3:54:25
  over the slides and that's how discover the you know, it's
• 3:54:30
  almost I kind of like that as well.
• 3:54:33
  I do like I always feel that the doctor should sort of save the
• 3:54:37
  universe that the whole ethos of Doctor Who is that we save the
• 3:54:41
  universe by mistake not because I've just been watching the
• 3:54:44
  Mandalorian before we got to get we got together tonight and I
• 3:54:48
  it's fine. It's lovely.
• 3:54:49
  It's very well. It's extremely well done.
• 3:54:51
  But it is all very again Earnest.
• 3:54:54
  It's I know the way we have the way and I shall go a top the
• 3:54:58
  mountain and it's all a bit kind of it takes.
• 3:55:01
  It's all quite serious and what I sort of like about Doctor
• 3:55:04
  Who's even if you it's life and death and I'm not saying it
• 3:55:08
  should be unserious in that it should win at the audience and
• 3:55:10
  undermine that but it has its heart a sort of adherence to the
• 3:55:18
  idea that we get through things because of Plucky improvisation
• 3:55:23
  or or accidental hotspot rather than because we're so effing
• 3:55:29
  amazing because I can't identify with somebody who's brilliant
• 3:55:33
  because that's not how I feel I can identify with somebody or
• 3:55:36
  give it their best shot. Hopefully get it, right.
• 3:55:41
  Here he is. Peter miles.
• 3:55:43
  Look at Absolute you wake up. It's fantastic.
• 3:55:48
  So and it's only like, you know little bits of color and a few
• 3:55:53
  bits of latex left to dry and then sort of plucked to be all
• 3:55:57
  sort of Mankey. And this is really unflappable.
• 3:56:01
  That's still completely in character, isn't it?
• 3:56:05
  Yeah. And I remember being surprised
• 3:56:07
  at this because in the book he just he survives telephones
• 3:56:10
  seven essentially in the book and when the salarians come in
• 3:56:13
  and sort of say, you know, you're gonna do this or do that
• 3:56:16
  and he just goes know and they just integrated and then miss
• 3:56:19
  Travis who's his assistant to save the day.
• 3:56:22
  So he yeah, he just gets disintegrated by the silurians.
• 3:56:26
  Whereas I got it's great. He lives up on the fucking tape.
• 3:56:32
  Oh, yeah and try to throw the cricketer.
• 3:56:36
  Yeah. Look as it's well.
• 3:56:41
  It's I love And I and I know some people who would watch that
• 3:56:47
  and go that's just ridiculous debt is ridiculous violence is
• 3:56:50
  ridiculous. It's it's it's not it's not
• 3:56:53
  precise. It's not choreographed and I
• 3:56:56
  think it's a brave actor that does that I'm I'm full of
• 3:56:59
  admiration, you know, so satisfying about it is is
• 3:57:02
  basically we've been waiting six episodes for him to lose his
• 3:57:05
  temper. Yeah.
• 3:57:06
  He's kept it all simmering under that's the other thing.
• 3:57:09
  Yeah. It's it's not that it's that
• 3:57:11
  sort of before it's not that he's been at 11 for the whole
• 3:57:14
  thing. And this is just the natural
• 3:57:15
  progression of that. He this has been simmering and
• 3:57:18
  it's but that's the scene where it boils and it's fantastic.
• 3:57:24
  Oh and we get another great Cliffhanger as well because he's
• 3:57:26
  now got the Cure. So Harare everyone's gonna be
• 3:57:30
  saved and that's what they come in and kidnapping.
• 3:57:33
  It's the sort of equivalent of major Baker coming in just at
• 3:57:36
  the wrong moment. Yes and coming in.
• 3:57:38
  It just got the site. We've upped it again and another
• 3:57:42
  episode out of this yet, baby. Oh, yeah.
• 3:57:47
  Although it does give the Nicholas Courtney a chance to do
• 3:57:49
  some one. He's very good on a telephone.
• 3:57:51
  You know, he really convinces me.
• 3:57:52
  He goes up the phone and goes the daily what yes reporter and
• 3:57:59
  don't they in that who killed Kennedy book isn't it the
• 3:58:03
  report? I like this effect as well the
• 3:58:06
  the burning through and the the white Tock.
• 3:58:08
  I love the whole thing of the you know, that suggestion that
• 3:58:12
  it's sort of organic manipulation from these
• 3:58:15
  creatures that are sort of of the earth.
• 3:58:17
  You know, I I like that that's sort of suggested without being
• 3:58:20
  sort of dwelt upon or have a big speech about and I love that
• 3:58:23
  again the Silhouettes of them coming through the smoke.
• 3:58:26
  I think it's brilliant visual watching this.
• 3:58:29
  I'm really looking at the visuals now rather than
• 3:58:31
  listening to it and how the lights are kept down that
• 3:58:35
  they're very often in silhouette and very effective for it that
• 3:58:39
  oh that the ambulance man who is recovering is Dave Carter the
• 3:58:43
  old silurian. There we go.
• 3:58:44
  So they've taken out of his costume and stuck him in bed
• 3:58:48
  gone well with with you for this week in you go I love this doll
• 3:58:53
  here that basically sets up what's gonna happen.
• 3:58:55
  Right? All they need is to formula now,
• 3:58:57
  right? I'll go and get it.
• 3:59:00
  A Darrow's great at that stuff is he just done a the silurians
• 3:59:04
  are everywhere. They've killed Sergeant hearts
• 3:59:05
  and I think he gets to do it next week where he goes private
• 3:59:08
  Upton's dead, you know, and it's not private Upton.
• 3:59:11
  We've never met, you know, but it gives it a real, you know,
• 3:59:15
  the silurians. They're everywhere.
• 3:59:17
  He's he's Steely voice means that all of that stuff has real
• 3:59:21
  impact. He could have just run in and
• 3:59:24
  went my wife has been and oh, I love Darrow.
• 3:59:30
  Oh that last commentary where all of us.
• 3:59:37
  Would you think this this acting star was ever involved Paul and
• 3:59:41
  he goes as far as I'm concerned that never went away?
• 3:59:45
  So the music goes insane here as they come through the door.
• 3:59:49
  Yeah, of course one last girl from her way.
• 3:59:56
  Yeah. Yeah, it's a shame.
• 3:59:59
  It's not it's not it's not a great shot that sadly.
• 4:00:03
  She think he may be watched a few and went.
• 4:00:05
  Oh, I need to stop know because he never quite he never quite
• 4:00:07
  loses the the girl and does he I don't think he ever talks when
• 4:00:11
  he is being strangled by those tentacles in spearhead from
• 4:00:14
  space because that camera is so in his face.
• 4:00:16
  Yeah. Yeah it yeah, it's it's a it's a
• 4:00:20
  shame that you know, that's that's maybe his Achilles is
• 4:00:24
  Achilles. He is Achilles next switch.
• 4:00:27
  Although it's always the telephone why is in Terror the
• 4:00:32
  autons as well. Yeah.
• 4:00:33
  Yeah pretty effective. While Toby I've saved all the
• 4:00:38
  last episode questions for the last episode because all the
• 4:00:41
  people have some things to say about the brigadier's actions.
• 4:00:45
  Yeah. Yes.
• 4:00:46
  So should we skip into episode 7 and find out what people have
• 4:00:50
  got to ask? yeah, I mean we're talking about
• 4:00:53
  episode ending I listen to hamster with the blood pet and I
• 4:00:57
  and sometimes the episode's just give you.
• 4:01:08
  I'm gonna die there. Hi, can I watch that is because
• 4:01:11
  I don't answer it. That's what People are calling.
• 4:01:16
  You know, they still listen. I love it.
• 4:01:19
  I think it's a lovely I think it's a lovely trade one can go
• 4:01:22
  and we will and they'll be more Shenanigans in Wendy more next
• 4:01:26
  time. I think it's sometimes I go to
• 4:01:29
  the bit where I go and I'll cut it there and that's unbelievably
• 4:01:36
  I actually better than I used to be used to be absolutely
• 4:01:38
  atrocious, but Welcome to hubbster with a blunt
• 4:02:23
  pen-knife, which is actually a podcast that I Toby haydock was
• 4:02:27
  doing Millennia ago. And then I woke up and found out
• 4:02:30
  that this other guy called Joe was doing a podcast called a
• 4:02:35
  hamster with a blunt pen knife and it's my podcast.
• 4:02:38
  I was here before Joe. Not really that would be a
• 4:02:40
  thorny model conundrum and I'm sure that'll be similar thoughty
• 4:02:44
  moral conundrums as Joe and I negotiate our way through
• 4:02:48
  episode 7 of Doctor Who and the silurians.
• 4:02:51
  Hello, Joe welcome to your podcast.
• 4:02:53
  Thank you very much. I've got to say that I did try.
• 4:02:59
  You know, when I first started how to start I did two stories
• 4:03:03
  where I did the commentaries on my own and they are saying I
• 4:03:08
  salute you sir being able to have done as many episodes as
• 4:03:12
  you have because I found that exhausting.
• 4:03:14
  Uh, I don't like it about myself that I can. or such lengths
• 4:03:23
  without sort of meeting anybody else.
• 4:03:27
  It's not I'm dubious about that. I and I have to say, you know,
• 4:03:32
  what the pilot such a thing which will never be heard.
• 4:03:36
  I totally forgot about this. You know, what the original idea
• 4:03:39
  for the commentaries was gonna be Was I was gonna do them with
• 4:03:44
  my dog. I have a lovely dog called
• 4:03:46
  Bernard and what I was doing I would sort of do I go and we did
• 4:03:50
  I did the croutons as the first one.
• 4:03:51
  I just said and it sort of oh, who's that actor dad?
• 4:03:55
  Like, oh, well you see this actor is James.
• 4:03:57
  Wow, and and so I would have it as a sort of dual log, but where
• 4:04:02
  I would play both Bernard and myself and and I found as with a
• 4:04:08
  lot of things as with my Doctor Who scarf which started off as a
• 4:04:11
  very convoluted thing with jokes that were backwards and all that
• 4:04:15
  sort of thing. Actually if you strip away all
• 4:04:17
  the clever stuff and just get to the heart of it which you know,
• 4:04:21
  my my friend did just get to you know, the joy of you know, what
• 4:04:26
  doctor who brings to your personal life in your
• 4:04:28
  relationships and all of that the same with the commentary,
• 4:04:30
  you know, let the joy in the enthusiasm shine through you
• 4:04:34
  don't need to pretend to be talking with your dog much as I
• 4:04:37
  love my dog and much as I think I could have made a cult figure
• 4:04:40
  off him it, you know, it was it was labored and it was hard and
• 4:04:43
  it stopped me it kind of put the brakes on because I was thinking
• 4:04:47
  about the dog and me and I was filming it as well.
• 4:04:51
  So I was also having to stop the dog from moving the you know, it
• 4:04:57
  was a barrier to what you need which is sort of fluidity.
• 4:05:02
  And I mean I say err too much. I know there are people who do
• 4:05:05
  things properly who would probably go through and get rid
• 4:05:08
  of all of their ums, and ours while I'm afraid I'm not
• 4:05:11
  listening know. I just I expect people to listen
• 4:05:14
  to my podcast but I don't expect me to be one of them.
• 4:05:16
  So there's no way I'm going to go through chopping out my arms
• 4:05:19
  and ours. I don't do them in the in the
• 4:05:21
  other two the scripted ones, you know, which are which are read
• 4:05:24
  and performed so hopefully much more sort of a fluid and
• 4:05:28
  articulate that and and articulated but for the comments
• 4:05:32
  I had to do something that was you know, it's unrehearsed.
• 4:05:35
  I haven't I haven't done any research before and it's just
• 4:05:39
  what it's just what you get you get the unfiltered.
• 4:05:41
  This is what I know and this is what I think and and maybe
• 4:05:45
  sometimes and this is what has happened to me today or in the
• 4:05:48
  world of Doctor Who today or what was happening when I
• 4:05:50
  watched this particular episode. And that's kind of the formula
• 4:05:54
  that was in in moths that the ones personal life informed so
• 4:05:58
  much of one's enjoyment of Doctor Who and I think we can
• 4:06:01
  all I hope we can all identify that even if we haven't all had
• 4:06:04
  the same experience is we know that there's a story we watched
• 4:06:08
  when our Granddad died for example, or we know there's a
• 4:06:10
  story that we've we've watched to get us over a broken heart or
• 4:06:13
  we know I know there's a story that I watched in black and
• 4:06:17
  white when there was a roaring fire and I got warm Rosy Cheeks.
• 4:06:19
  It was Doctor Who in the silurians so part of me when I'm
• 4:06:22
  watching this goes this should be a black and white and I
• 4:06:24
  should be buying open fire with Rosy Cheeks, you know, so I
• 4:06:30
  can't remember what the first thing you said was, but I've
• 4:06:33
  clearly just given you a 10 minute.
• 4:06:34
  Monologue, which so, oh it was that it was how I managed to do
• 4:06:37
  it on my own. That's how because I never shut
• 4:06:39
  up. I don't like it Joe.
• 4:06:42
  I actually it makes me cringe. I have to keep talking because
• 4:06:46
  otherwise I think about how much I hate myself.
• 4:06:48
  Well, we've had the star obviously that's always with
• 4:06:51
  somebody else. So it's it's to The Listener.
• 4:06:54
  It's like listening in on two mates having a conversation and
• 4:06:58
  that's on but with happy times in places.
• 4:07:00
  I like the intimacy of it's like you were talking to me.
• 4:07:06
  And I asked what I really like about that.
• 4:07:08
  It just feels like I'm listening to you.
• 4:07:11
  You know. Well, that's very good.
• 4:07:13
  It actually sort of came from practical assistance because
• 4:07:15
  obviously I do have guests but I get them to send in the because
• 4:07:18
  I always feel a bit bad asking people.
• 4:07:20
  So this the way of doing it was to say well you can record your
• 4:07:23
  stuff in your own time and you can send it.
• 4:07:26
  Audio or video or both or whatever you like and you could
• 4:07:28
  do it. However you like and then
• 4:07:29
  there's no pressure. There's no you know, there's no
• 4:07:32
  there's no right or wrong way of doing it and it means they can
• 4:07:35
  do it whenever they like and I can then use it whenever I like
• 4:07:37
  we don't have to fit in at the same time make an appointment
• 4:07:41
  blah. So it was all it was all to make
• 4:07:43
  it as low maintenance as possible and for me to be as as
• 4:07:48
  little a burden on the person I was expecting to help me out as
• 4:07:52
  possible. So it was it was sort of born
• 4:07:54
  from practicality really. I'm gobsmacked that anybody
• 4:07:57
  listens to it, but I'm very pleased that at the the people
• 4:08:02
  who do who send you know, nice and interesting feedback and and
• 4:08:06
  the number of people that do that I have to say Apple's
• 4:08:10
  Butters me and it's very nice. Well, I'm addicted.
• 4:08:14
  Well, I mean I I listened to you when I listen to hamster and I
• 4:08:20
  when I walked around the park with my dog, I'm always sad if
• 4:08:23
  there isn't an episode to listen to because then I have to listen
• 4:08:25
  to some political podcast with some oh lord.
• 4:08:28
  Well, I think we're stretched stuff as he goes enough now.
• 4:08:32
  All right. Yes, we can have talked to the
• 4:08:36
  silence. Um, shall we go into right?
• 4:08:39
  Well, I have to I have to get my I've got my would you I've got
• 4:08:43
  my remote control on my telephone.
• 4:08:44
  Would you believe you can do that these days Joe with a Time
• 4:08:47
  cover its marvelous. Which yes, this is about the
• 4:08:51
  third the third one of these I've had and this literally this
• 4:08:57
  one came in the post today because the other one had sort
• 4:08:59
  of Fallen to bits. So yes, I am now on.
• 4:09:03
  Oh, you said about turning burn it into a cult figure.
• 4:09:07
  Oh, I love those pictures that you put out to patreon actually
• 4:09:14
  achieved that. that was I mean that was because yes on my
• 4:09:18
  patreon page, I I put something out on Monday Wednesday and
• 4:09:21
  Friday and then I thought well just on Tuesday.
• 4:09:24
  I'll stick a picture of the dog and they actually I looked at
• 4:09:29
  the you know, you get the insights that they call it on
• 4:09:32
  the thing and sometimes more people because I think some
• 4:09:35
  people who are very kindly Adrian me.
• 4:09:37
  They still wait for the stuff to come out on iTunes.
• 4:09:40
  They you know, they're being patrons just because they're
• 4:09:42
  nice and that's the model that seems to work and I'm not I'm
• 4:09:45
  not talking to delay. I'm actually talking because my
• 4:09:50
  internet seems to be playing up in is not loading up the episode
• 4:09:52
  and but but more but but if I put if I put when I put the
• 4:09:57
  picture of Bernadette that sometimes gets more downloads
• 4:10:00
  and Views than than a podcast. I've painted sticking me put
• 4:10:05
  together. I suppose it only takes a second
• 4:10:06
  to look at a picture and tell you are always still alive.
• 4:10:12
  So let's get going then in five four three, two one.
• 4:10:20
  I want to hit you with a question from Jack Koya who says
• 4:10:24
  it's a nice contrast that for predominantly Earthbound era.
• 4:10:27
  The Third Doctor is one of the nicest doctors towards aliens.
• 4:10:32
  Mmm, do you think the first and second doctor would be more
• 4:10:35
  belligerent in favor of the humans?
• 4:10:39
  It's it's funny isn't it? We sort of accept and reject we
• 4:10:42
  cherry pick our Doctor Who morality always amuses me when
• 4:10:45
  people sort of today, you know, I think of Doctor Who is a very
• 4:10:48
  liberal show because I am an anti-racist anti-homophobia.
• 4:10:53
  Everybody should be treated the same woolly bloody liberal.
• 4:10:58
  And so of course I take I interpret Doctor Who in that
• 4:11:02
  way, but you cannot deny the doctor who does largely blow up
• 4:11:08
  things that are a different color and you know, the
• 4:11:13
  macroptera, you know, he doesn't think hang on the crabs used to
• 4:11:16
  live here. It's the human he just goes back
• 4:11:20
  crabs blow him up. Oh he trounced the worst for it.
• 4:11:23
  I know he gets away with murder because he keeps about like a
• 4:11:27
  boy, but yeah, I mean seeds of death with the theories and but
• 4:11:34
  I mean, I also find that quite interesting.
• 4:11:36
  I'm I'm interested in the hypocrisy of liberalism, I'm
• 4:11:41
  aware that I can afford my liberalism because I never
• 4:11:44
  really have to put it to the test which is why I give quite
• 4:11:48
  short strived to you know, very bustling enunciated liberalism
• 4:11:54
  of the kind that we see often replacing discourse these days
• 4:11:58
  when you sort of think well, it's all very well that you say
• 4:12:01
  that but actually there are there are hypocrisies within
• 4:12:05
  within. You know, even the liberalism of
• 4:12:11
  Doctor Who because essentially he asked her he has to kill he
• 4:12:14
  has to kill people. Oh this by the way private Upton
• 4:12:17
  doesn't get credited. And that's because it's Simon
• 4:12:20
  Kane who plays one of the silurians and he's curly in the
• 4:12:24
  episode episode one of the enemy of the world as well.
• 4:12:27
  I used to always used to be furious go.
• 4:12:29
  Hang on. There's a speaking part here and
• 4:12:30
  he doesn't get a credit and I what I needed to know who that
• 4:12:33
  actor was when I found out was ah, okay, that's fair enough.
• 4:12:35
  He gets credit as the silurian but as an actor I'd be going can
• 4:12:38
  I not be credited to just the clearly they looked in the
• 4:12:43
  script went there's this part we could actually get one of the
• 4:12:45
  other guys to do it. And obviously you're going to
• 4:12:47
  want to get your face seen but he gets a name but he doesn't
• 4:12:51
  get a credit and then this Corporal nothing in this who
• 4:12:54
  just get a credit even though all of his lines have been cut
• 4:12:57
  and he's just like a sort of support.
• 4:12:59
  Anyway, that's only the sort of thing that interests me.
• 4:13:01
  Oh the the liberalism thing. I I find very interesting
• 4:13:07
  because I have obviously cast Doctor Who as a show that is
• 4:13:12
  about understanding and Darrow is just cool as fuk here.
• 4:13:15
  Sorry. I don't but the way he gets he
• 4:13:18
  notices Something's wrong. He gets his gun.
• 4:13:20
  He looks around. This is you know Avon calling.
• 4:13:22
  He's really well. And again, he doesn't die in the
• 4:13:28
  book. I don't think so.
• 4:13:29
  I was very very surprised when he gets killed in a bit.
• 4:13:31
  But anyway, right? Yes, so the yes, it's it's so it
• 4:13:38
  also amuses me when people you know when somebody says
• 4:13:41
  something that people don't agree with they go have they not
• 4:13:43
  learned from the lessons of the show that they love when you go
• 4:13:47
  what well, I mean you go the other two can take lots of
• 4:13:51
  different lessons with dog too if you if you really want to and
• 4:13:54
  I think the main one is don't lose your fucking sense of
• 4:13:57
  humor, but I I do fall into the camp that says Doctor Who is at
• 4:14:05
  its best when it is. A show about you know, acquiring
• 4:14:10
  knowledge and cross-cultural understanding which leads you to
• 4:14:13
  be a better person and and leads us to have more interesting
• 4:14:17
  lives. If we Avail ourselves of the
• 4:14:19
  vast spectrum of opportunities that are a very Universe of
• 4:14:25
  being an experience is affords US rather than being, you know,
• 4:14:30
  the baddies in Doctor Who tend to be very narrow-minded and
• 4:14:32
  tend to have no sense of humor, but you know, A period but we
• 4:14:41
  only afford it his liberalism because he's got somebody else
• 4:14:44
  to do the shooting. Yes, you know, so so it's it you
• 4:14:49
  know, it's it's a rocky boat that Doctor Who's morality is on
• 4:14:53
  I'm gonna do go he's saying to a point he tries to negotiate here
• 4:14:57
  in the sea Devils because the pillars on that I watched the
• 4:15:00
  other days very Charming with all the different aliens.
• 4:15:03
  Although he's a little bit racist towards the ice Warriors,
• 4:15:06
  isn't he? Yes, but I think but again
• 4:15:08
  that's that's deliberate that's to show you know, his his floor.
• 4:15:12
  That's that, you know, that's deliberately to sort of show.
• 4:15:14
  Oh the doctors made a mistake and as have you because you have
• 4:15:18
  judged the ice where is from all the others and they're not all
• 4:15:20
  the same. I love the pert Weir if that I
• 4:15:23
  love I love Barry. Let's shining through.
• 4:15:25
  You know, the the benevolent Buddhist liberal Barry Letts.
• 4:15:29
  Who wanted us to think about those sorts of things and
• 4:15:32
  Malcolm Hulk who you know was not was not afraid to to Lampoon
• 4:15:36
  his own side as well. As you know have a go at what he
• 4:15:39
  saw his you know. Unnecessarily sort of right-wing
• 4:15:43
  patriotic attitude he but again he had a he had a new one wants
• 4:15:47
  to take on it. You know Doctor Who is It's at
• 4:15:51
  its worse. When it Wags any drum, is it
• 4:15:52
  worse when it wags its finger, but I think it's all of this
• 4:15:57
  stuff is done quite artfully, you know with the right.
• 4:16:00
  I'm thinking of like I am seeing it space you've got burner Kay's
• 4:16:04
  character to add some balance with the left in invasion of
• 4:16:07
  dinosaurs you've got is it Mark is there to add a bit of
• 4:16:11
  balance? So yeah.
• 4:16:12
  Well, I think that's the lovely thing, you know, that's that's
• 4:16:14
  Hulk being because Hulk was very left wing.
• 4:16:17
  But but the they are souls in invasion of the Dinosaurs the
• 4:16:21
  ones who I get do what I was just sort of, you know, Pat
• 4:16:24
  themselves on the back with their very nice liberal people,
• 4:16:26
  but they won't think twice about wiping out people that don't
• 4:16:29
  share their views, you know, and again that is a I'm afraid that
• 4:16:33
  is a lesson for our time's today.
• 4:16:35
  Oh never stopped quoting that terrorists fly.
• 4:16:38
  Was it the left wing fascist? We're going to do terrible
• 4:16:42
  things for you, but it's for your own good absolutely and I
• 4:16:48
  say that as somebody that considers himself.
• 4:16:50
  To be off the left, you know, you should never be you should
• 4:16:53
  never be blind to to the folks of your because because there is
• 4:16:58
  no certainty the ones that a certain of the Daleks and
• 4:17:00
  they're the bad guys. You've got to be aware that
• 4:17:02
  every moral judgment that you make it actually involves some
• 4:17:07
  sort of compromise at some point even a compromise of your own
• 4:17:10
  morality because Because otherwise, you're a dictator,
• 4:17:14
  you know while talking of compromise morality the lovely
• 4:17:19
  Simon heart would like to ask it was the brigadier's actions at
• 4:17:24
  the end. Justified You know, someone was
• 4:17:29
  gonna ask that one. It's such a tricky one because I
• 4:17:37
  mean, it's it's the brilliant tragedy at the heart of the
• 4:17:40
  story because in this sense that because the the wall like
• 4:17:46
  silurian prospered because the silurians gave way to their
• 4:17:50
  worst tendency and the young sailor and kills the old signery
• 4:17:54
  in. He is then, you know hoist by
• 4:17:58
  his own petard, you know, his own attitudes are that the
• 4:18:03
  humans, you know. Are perfectly reasonable it's
• 4:18:06
  saying well if you're going to try out with the play.
• 4:18:09
  You don't blame us for you know blowing up your cables.
• 4:18:14
  Yeah, or whatever. So in a way the story.
• 4:18:19
  Gets itself out of trouble because we don't kill the old
• 4:18:23
  silurian. It would have been a very
• 4:18:26
  different if you know if the old silurian had been there going.
• 4:18:30
  Well, I'll just freeze everyone and I'll come out and you know,
• 4:18:33
  and and and Shake you buy that and then the Brigadier blew up
• 4:18:36
  the song that would be very very different.
• 4:18:39
  So, but of course, it's not too it's Tea Time Entertainment it
• 4:18:42
  show you know, the show gives us the ending that it needs to give
• 4:18:47
  us to leave the bitter taste, but also totally understand
• 4:18:50
  where it's come from a mean that we can.
• 4:18:53
  We can have it the same space as the Brigadier the doctors.
• 4:18:57
  So appalled though, isn't he like?
• 4:18:59
  Oh Darrow being cool and The doctor is a pull and and I mean
• 4:19:05
  it's you know, it's the nature of this sort of show that he
• 4:19:07
  then needs to be. I mean, he does mention it next
• 4:19:10
  week doesn't he goes what does the Big Ideas got something to
• 4:19:12
  do is blown up the silurians and but you know, the doctor has to
• 4:19:16
  compromise because the only person we did is the only person
• 4:19:18
  that's going to give it somewhere to live.
• 4:19:22
  Well, I like the fact that he froze his what you know, yeah.
• 4:19:27
  Yeah, she looks a poodle at that.
• 4:19:29
  Um, well Chris husband on that note.
• 4:19:32
  Should there have been a reason why the doctor stays with unit
• 4:19:35
  after the ending or is this handled in subsequent stories
• 4:19:39
  enough? I don't want. the overhanging
• 4:19:50
  Dynamics between the central characters to get in the way of
• 4:19:54
  the story myself. I understand now that we have
• 4:19:57
  our arcs and we sometimes have you know, the adoption the
• 4:20:01
  companion having a graduate with each other over the course of
• 4:20:03
  Three episodes and then something will happen.
• 4:20:05
  There'll be like, I understand that and all that works and it's
• 4:20:07
  done been done very well in the new series, you know with that
• 4:20:10
  seemed to him and Clara and kill the moon and he's fantastic, you
• 4:20:13
  know, and and that has ramifications over the next few
• 4:20:15
  episodes, but my preference and it may be just due to my
• 4:20:17
  upbringing is that If not a reset button, I don't need the I
• 4:20:22
  don't really need the regulars personal problems hanging over.
• 4:20:27
  This week's brand new adventure. I want to know who you're
• 4:20:30
  introducing me to what planet were on what the monster's are
• 4:20:33
  what the threats are. I don't want the blobbing about
• 4:20:35
  the fact that they were mean to each other last week.
• 4:20:38
  You know, I get over it on your now obviously the death of
• 4:20:42
  adjective is quite that was my one know he had it even that
• 4:20:47
  color swept aside. I would I would kind of have
• 4:20:51
  done that the end of the season maybe and then and then started
• 4:20:54
  up again sometime like later. Yeah, and obviously the death of
• 4:20:59
  the doctor that's a consequence that you have to do with as
• 4:21:01
  well. Yeah.
• 4:21:02
  Yeah. but but I you know, I I don't kind of I watched Doctor
• 4:21:08
  Who sort of you know as as to escape from.
• 4:21:15
  You know that the difficulties of everyday life and a lot of
• 4:21:18
  the difficulties of everyday life are dealing with people in
• 4:21:21
  relationships and you know relationships at work and also
• 4:21:25
  in every other program you get you get, you know, people being
• 4:21:29
  unfaithful to their partner or you know arguments with the boss
• 4:21:34
  and all of that sort of thing and I I like Dr. To take me
• 4:21:36
  somewhere a bit more metaphysical and metaphorical
• 4:21:39
  and and sort of exciting and And I don't sort of need that
• 4:21:43
  baggage if you like which is odd because then I love it when
• 4:21:45
  there's a reference made to something that happened in 1967.
• 4:21:48
  So again, I'm compromising my own Morality In terms of my very
• 4:21:52
  my very contradictory worldview it all at the end of the day it
• 4:21:57
  goes down to your gut really, you know, and I tend to agree
• 4:22:00
  with you. I prefer to leave that sort of
• 4:22:02
  domestic drama to one side and just get on with the adventure
• 4:22:06
  but you know, one of the most successful iterations of the
• 4:22:10
  show and Rusty Davis was in charge married the two yes, and
• 4:22:14
  I loved every minute of what Russell T.
• 4:22:18
  Davis does tonight. I think he sprinkles that stuff
• 4:22:20
  into it so awfully but but what Russell does is he never loses
• 4:22:24
  that sets of fun really? Yeah now I think there's an
• 4:22:28
  argument to say they might get a little bit smug in that second
• 4:22:30
  season, but but then that is deliberate, you know, you could
• 4:22:33
  say that's deliberate because then they are rent a Sunday and
• 4:22:35
  it's a whole I think that's Slightly retconned to be honest,
• 4:22:39
  but I you know, it does make a certain sense, but it's never
• 4:22:41
  perfect. The beauty of Russell's doctor
• 4:22:43
  is it's never Poe faced. It's never again watching some
• 4:22:46
  of the American stuff that I like for different reasons that
• 4:22:49
  there's a lot of sort of posted this and everybody taking their
• 4:22:51
  honor and relationships and all that sort of very very sort of
• 4:22:55
  sternly and earnestly and and doctor who has a sense of sort
• 4:22:59
  of zeal about it that it should that it should never lose So
• 4:23:03
  within that sort of baggage stuff, it should always be sort
• 4:23:06
  of Pepe and exciting I have to say but I love my doctor who to
• 4:23:09
  be wearing eccentric clothes, but I have to say John put in a
• 4:23:13
  white T-shirt. I know I've never been into that
• 4:23:17
  for your team Joey but if if Peart we was on the subs bench I
• 4:23:23
  might join in Oh, it doesn't feel a little bit of something
• 4:23:28
  about poetry. But often.
• 4:23:29
  This might be his best. Look.
• 4:23:30
  Well. My my ex the mother of my
• 4:23:33
  children I was with her when we when they repeated this, you
• 4:23:36
  know, BBC Two when they did that aborted repeat season, and she
• 4:23:39
  actually I was quite I was quite chuffed because she thought
• 4:23:42
  she'd put me in a white T-shirt was quite sexy, but I was like,
• 4:23:45
  oh my my missus Francis doctor Doctor Who anything to get into
• 4:23:50
  it more than 30 years and as hard as we having a commission
• 4:23:53
  if it right now wouldn't she watching this?
• 4:23:55
  You know, what is so damn sexy so damn sexy.
• 4:23:58
  Yeah, but with with what a white T-shirt and a pair of white
• 4:24:02
  trousers again only perk week, you know what he was in the buff
• 4:24:07
  in the last one. He was wasn't he got a tattoo,
• 4:24:10
  who is it says that have you got any tattoo.
• 4:24:13
  She says that something. Oh just Gorgeous.
• 4:24:27
  Look, okay, Darren McKay horse. Does this story present the
• 4:24:31
  thorniest moral dilemma in Doctor Who well and I shall say
• 4:24:35
  hello to Dad on Macai because I know he liked it to the type
• 4:24:38
  pronounce it correctly once he's not kind.
• 4:24:42
  She remember I said she I had a dealer in Scotland.
• 4:24:45
  Oh, yeah same He's the one that sent me the copy of Doctor Who
• 4:24:50
  and the silurians he going to really yeah.
• 4:24:52
  Okay. Nice.
• 4:24:54
  Sarah was my dealer of vhss in the middle.
• 4:24:58
  You want to you want to I got a little got a little bit of
• 4:25:01
  season 7 straight, you know, listen, I don't know what it was
• 4:25:06
  a pain friendship, you know, when you sort of answer adverts
• 4:25:10
  on in. Yeah, it just started off like
• 4:25:12
  that and he's like got all these things for me to copy you how
• 4:25:15
  kind I can't think of many doctors do is you know that I
• 4:25:21
  have a moral delivered like this.
• 4:25:23
  No, I think this is a particularly good one, which is
• 4:25:27
  why I think it's such an excellent and underrated story.
• 4:25:30
  Really I think you know, this is a this is a 10 out of 10 for me
• 4:25:33
  and I I don't give many tens as a as a sort of contrast then
• 4:25:38
  when we do this again in the sea Devils, but we basically goes
• 4:25:41
  well, I have to blow them up. You know, there was no turning
• 4:25:44
  it. Yeah.
• 4:25:44
  I really enjoyed the sea Devils last time we did it but I don't
• 4:25:48
  think it's as rich as this I think it's got many different
• 4:25:51
  great things about it, but I You know if I'm thinking of you
• 4:25:56
  know, high-end doctor, I think the CW's is a an excellent
• 4:25:59
  example of really good Doctor Who but I think this is a this
• 4:26:02
  is a prime cut. This is way good doctor who I
• 4:26:06
  think I just think it's grass-fed Doctor Who has been
• 4:26:10
  massaged. It's just more interesting
• 4:26:14
  stories telling ya and it's good.
• 4:26:16
  It's so good economy under the table and do wires and he just
• 4:26:20
  looks fantastic. It looks hot as hell you'd like
• 4:26:26
  to be that table. Would you can untangle more wise
• 4:26:31
  anybody? Yeah well and he's also you
• 4:26:34
  know, he's got sort of season 7 booth on at this point as well.
• 4:26:39
  His hair's under control. Yeah.
• 4:26:41
  Yeah, he's yeah. Yeah, it's it's a kind of normal
• 4:26:44
  and it's a sort of more Steely gray, isn't it?
• 4:26:46
  It goes It goes a bit Mrs. Slope and later, but he's a it's you
• 4:26:50
  know, He still pulls off though. Oh, he is effortless.
• 4:26:55
  He is again. I I'm not sure we produced
• 4:26:58
  people who have such sort of natural presence and elegance
• 4:27:02
  and style. He's just one of those people
• 4:27:04
  you could you could put anything on that man, and he would he
• 4:27:07
  would still just look I mean if you if you put some of his
• 4:27:10
  clothes on. Somebody who didn't have that
• 4:27:13
  innate presence and posture and all of that.
• 4:27:16
  They look you see it sometimes where where You can see people
• 4:27:23
  have dressed like a Victorian or Edwardian Dandy.
• 4:27:27
  But what they do is they look like someone who lives in with
• 4:27:34
  their mom has been crammed into something from Oxfam and I would
• 4:27:36
  I would I have tried to sort of dress in a way that I think is
• 4:27:42
  elegant and it doesn't hang off me right?
• 4:27:44
  I'm not a stylish. man, and in fact when I when I went into
• 4:27:48
  Courier, and I played Fergus I I said to them I want him to be a
• 4:27:54
  beige man who thinks he's a collider scope so that we put
• 4:27:59
  him in waistcoats and quite and shirts that on John put we would
• 4:28:02
  have looked amazing, but on me looked shit, so it's an attempt
• 4:28:06
  to be Sort of you know it eccentric and and smart and
• 4:28:11
  interesting. And actually I looked around
• 4:28:13
  that was the point because we even looks cool in a bloody
• 4:28:18
  jumpsuit. Yeah, he's made the decision and
• 4:28:22
  including what he wears nothing's of certain this show.
• 4:28:25
  Yeah on the most stylish man on the most comfortable on the
• 4:28:29
  smartest man in the room. I mean, I couldn't believe it.
• 4:28:32
  I thought this scene where the overgrown came in he's holding
• 4:28:35
  that ring and he chops. He chops the soldier on the head
• 4:28:39
  and he takes a look at the drink love it.
• 4:28:42
  That was such a good job that we never did Darren MacKay's
• 4:28:46
  question. Did we is this the thorniest
• 4:28:48
  moral dilemma and Dr. Who? Oh, haven't.
• 4:28:52
  We had one like that I suppose ah, oh that's that's Keith
• 4:28:56
  Ashley at the desk. He was an extra loads.
• 4:28:58
  He's one of the zygons and I think we decided yes.
• 4:29:02
  It's I think it yes. Yes.
• 4:29:05
  We did. We did answer.
• 4:29:06
  The question is the it's the answer.
• 4:29:07
  Yes. I think it probably is I suppose
• 4:29:10
  do I have the right in Genesis of the Daleks is a similarly
• 4:29:14
  thorny dilemma and again, you know, isn't it isn't it?
• 4:29:18
  You know true that is one of the most oft. cited You know
• 4:29:25
  examples of Doctor Who being thoughtful and intelligent that
• 4:29:28
  you know, do I have the right would you go back and kill a
• 4:29:30
  child? And you know, if you had a file
• 4:29:33
  that could kill everything would you use it?
• 4:29:35
  You know, it's all there not there's a real confidence in
• 4:29:38
  these masks that they'll shoot them.
• 4:29:40
  So close and I love the fact that the mouse actually move a
• 4:29:43
  little bit because they've got clothes pegs on haven't there
• 4:29:45
  and they wobble and it's just enough I think.
• 4:29:50
  I think it's great. And I'm gonna hit you with a
• 4:29:54
  couple of more questions. I'll try and squeeze them all in
• 4:29:56
  crashed dummy. Yeah.
• 4:29:58
  That's an interesting name asked.
• 4:30:00
  Why do I find the only picture of Malcolm Hulk that they're
• 4:30:03
  using all the extras absolutely terrifying it gives me genuine
• 4:30:08
  fear. Is he terrifying to look at?
• 4:30:10
  Well, it's clearly because you hate 50 year old men with
• 4:30:14
  balding and with white good job. This is only audio.
• 4:30:21
  Oh, look at this here. We have it the caves blow up.
• 4:30:24
  What an and it's and it starts with a lovely little joke of the
• 4:30:27
  of the little of liquid that men's Betty and you think oh
• 4:30:30
  this is gonna be a cute ending and Liz's looking comically
• 4:30:34
  pissed off with the doctors stupid car and the doctor and he
• 4:30:38
  does this lovely little thing where he traces the the liquid
• 4:30:41
  and it's beautiful. I love that and you sort of go
• 4:30:44
  and now we're going home. No instead too.
• 4:30:47
  It's blown up the alien's and it's wait you mean we talked
• 4:30:51
  about the doctor not telling the Brigadier that Quinn had died.
• 4:30:56
  So he you know, he was a bit more religious.
• 4:30:58
  Well, the Brigadier just said stop don't leave it with me.
• 4:31:01
  Okay? Yeah.
• 4:31:04
  Yeah. Oh, it's such a such an unusual
• 4:31:09
  ending, but Doctor Who? Well, I mean, I know it's not a
• 4:31:14
  story I think of as depressing know what it's not an unusual
• 4:31:17
  isn't it is ending with an explosion because that happens
• 4:31:19
  every other week. But it's yeah, but it's doctors
• 4:31:23
  making it all choice and it's it's not a triumphant explosion.
• 4:31:27
  Yeah. and perk we does this really well and she's great when
• 4:31:34
  she says no, I didn't know us all I love what Barry lets us
• 4:31:40
  about this and accomplish where apparently the dialogue was
• 4:31:43
  different and there was no reference to the fact that
• 4:31:46
  they'd been murdered and he said no make it explicit make the
• 4:31:50
  doctors say, you know, Beautiful.
• 4:31:54
  It's fantastic. And it's and what this is there
• 4:31:57
  about, you know, the government were fries and he's the people
• 4:32:01
  the doctors working for now. And I love the fact that he's
• 4:32:04
  going to drive again and you hear another explosion and it
• 4:32:06
  makes him look up again. And in the book I think and they
• 4:32:10
  says they you know, they drove home in silence or oh, it's I
• 4:32:14
  that is such a good ending to a doctor whose story rather Doctor
• 4:32:20
  Who in 1970. What a wonderful what a
• 4:32:23
  wonderful thing to do. You know, I think they only just
• 4:32:29
  but they do top the ending in ambassadors of death.
• 4:32:35
  Because I just I just love how the doctor.
• 4:32:40
  Refuses to Judge Karen at the end of that.
• 4:32:42
  Yes. I remember my brother what
• 4:32:44
  watching that and going. Oh, that's a bit of a that's a
• 4:32:47
  bit of a damp squib and I can understand that the ambassadors
• 4:32:50
  doesn't end in the traditional way because you know that yeah
• 4:32:54
  the main Baddie doesn't get you know blown to bits or doesn't
• 4:32:58
  get his moment of you know in Insanity where he has to
• 4:33:01
  threaten to kill somebody and get shot himself at the last
• 4:33:04
  minute. But instead has that very Yeah,
• 4:33:07
  that that's a very useful thing where he shoots at the thing
• 4:33:12
  that you can't possibly kill and sort of begs the doctor to just
• 4:33:16
  give him give him an inch and the doctor very sweetly. does
• 4:33:22
  Yeah. It's a I do all so I think as
• 4:33:27
  well, you know had they changed the running of Inferno
• 4:33:31
  ambassadors of death. It would have made absolute
• 4:33:33
  sense for this short hanging around because he leaves are
• 4:33:35
  really into that doesn't he says well, you're gonna have helped
• 4:33:37
  me sure. Goodbye, and he Yeah, yeah, I
• 4:33:41
  yeah, I do love that ending for ambassadors, but I think I think
• 4:33:45
  dramatically yes. It's a stronger ending.
• 4:33:47
  I think it's a it's a it's a beautiful and graceful thing
• 4:33:50
  that they do in ambassadors. But in terms of dramatic
• 4:33:53
  pleasing if you like, I think I think Solutions has the edge,
• 4:33:57
  you know, you gotta remember we've been this has been on now
• 4:34:01
  for what three and nearly three hours like it's a long run in
• 4:34:05
  times. So it does need a bit of a punch
• 4:34:07
  at the end for it to go and it doesn't disappoint.
• 4:34:11
  That's right. Oh look heavy.
• 4:34:13
  So you can go to bed at some point tonight.
• 4:34:15
  Would you please indulge me with the final choice of three
• 4:34:21
  things? I know we've covered a lot.
• 4:34:24
  Oh, yeah. We talked about a lot.
• 4:34:26
  We'll do one of Peace. Oh, sorry three a piece.
• 4:34:30
  You first and then me. Yes, you know this works.
• 4:34:35
  Well, I I have to get in there with talked about it a lot, but
• 4:34:40
  I do think Pete. Peter miles is death scene.
• 4:34:44
  But but Peter miles throughout because it's been sort of
• 4:34:48
  simmering up to that point but Peter miles is death scene.
• 4:34:50
  I think is one of the most marvelous things for for
• 4:34:53
  reasons. I've got into lengths and
• 4:34:56
  probably repetitively so I I think I'll say Peter miles's
• 4:35:01
  death scene and you could say thank you.
• 4:35:03
  That's what I wanted to know. I am going to say Tim coombes
• 4:35:12
  Direction, but for specific reason, this is the first time
• 4:35:15
  Doctor Who went into the studios in color.
• 4:35:18
  So he kind of had a lot to do and a bit to prove.
• 4:35:23
  And I just think the whole story is shot very imaginatively like,
• 4:35:28
  you know, he's doing interior caves and things like that
• 4:35:31
  suddenly in color the details more noticeable and I don't
• 4:35:35
  think that detracts at all. Oh, yeah.
• 4:35:38
  I just think it is, you know, it's a long bloody story and he
• 4:35:42
  keeps it visually interesting for out and like as cast it
• 4:35:46
  brilliantly as well like sort of on every level you can gauge a
• 4:35:50
  direct. He scores here.
• 4:35:52
  He does. He does.
• 4:35:54
  I think we talk of him in much more Halo terms if he directed I
• 4:35:58
  mean, you know, Michael Ferguson who is rightly lauded only
• 4:36:01
  directed four stories. So so if Tim had a couple more
• 4:36:04
  goes, I think he might be seen in you know, I think you know
• 4:36:08
  the classic series, you know, Ferguson is is the only sort of
• 4:36:13
  serious rival to those, you know to those great, you know,
• 4:36:17
  long-running lauded, you know, the camp Campfield and Maloney
• 4:36:20
  and Harper who did it too, but he did he did he did quite he
• 4:36:26
  did too in a very different time and where the the Gulf of
• 4:36:30
  quality was much much bigger, but I think you know, I think
• 4:36:32
  Ferguson is a serious rival to those guys and I think Tim Kuhn
• 4:36:36
  could have been had he come back and directed, you know.
• 4:36:40
  You know, there's the sea levels or the mutants and and then you
• 4:36:44
  know, one of the latest stories invasion of the dinosaurs or
• 4:36:47
  whatever, you know, I think we've talked about Seasons seven
• 4:36:49
  a lot but I think a lot of its success is down to the fact that
• 4:36:53
  there are four terrific directors.
• 4:36:55
  Yeah, and that's all yeah, all of season 7 is really well
• 4:36:58
  directed definitely. Um, well I I have to go for my
• 4:37:03
  second thing of the basic premise which I think is one of
• 4:37:05
  the great ingenious ideas of Doctor Who storytelling which is
• 4:37:09
  often comfortingly in the stories that it's trying to tell
• 4:37:12
  us and you know, it just dresses them in different uniform and
• 4:37:15
  and and and and and and speaks them with a different tongue.
• 4:37:18
  But this is a genuine attempt to go.
• 4:37:21
  Well, why don't we do a thing where?
• 4:37:23
  It's sort of where the bad guys. So that makes us think of all
• 4:37:27
  the sort of thorny moral issues that we've talked about and it
• 4:37:30
  doesn't fudge them it lays them out quite elegantly.
• 4:37:33
  It doesn't make it easy on itself and yet it you know, it
• 4:37:39
  gives us the young side luring in order to give us that ending
• 4:37:42
  that we need to fit it within the format of the series, but I
• 4:37:45
  think it's really well. I think it's really well molded
• 4:37:49
  into the format of Doctor Who whilst doing well whilst whilst
• 4:37:53
  engaging in a premise that is unusual and ingenious and I mean
• 4:37:58
  just a brilliant idea. We they were here first.
• 4:38:02
  Yeah over. My second is again a little bit
• 4:38:08
  obvious, but I've got reasons John per week who from his very
• 4:38:12
  first scene is aware that he's the most impressive person in
• 4:38:14
  the room. And so are we but it's not for
• 4:38:19
  those sort of moments. I love his relationship with Liz
• 4:38:24
  and I think that sort of relationship of equals is really
• 4:38:27
  interesting. I love his conflict with the
• 4:38:30
  Brigadier and how seriously that's played at.
• 4:38:33
  This point is not just all of a comic effects.
• 4:38:35
  I love how he needles Dr. Lawrence.
• 4:38:39
  And I love how sweet he is with the old silurian as well like
• 4:38:44
  that. I was watching those scenes and
• 4:38:46
  again, I mean looking at body language, I couldn't hear any
• 4:38:48
  dialogue but he's he's so sweet with him.
• 4:38:51
  And then I love his sort of Morrowind ignatian at the end
• 4:38:54
  when it's just brilliant. It's unbelievable to think.
• 4:38:57
  This is a second story. I think most actors playing the
• 4:39:01
  doctor take a while to settle in our certainly think trout and
• 4:39:04
  did I even think Tom Baker did a little bit but I think John Paul
• 4:39:09
  we just had it. He might have been nervous, but
• 4:39:12
  he ain't showing it and and bear in mind.
• 4:39:14
  He I think prior to this he had either never or only once done
• 4:39:21
  drama in a television Studio it done radio.
• 4:39:24
  He'd done film acting is very different from multi-camera
• 4:39:29
  studio recording which is a technically very difficult thing
• 4:39:34
  to do people who think you know, it's just acting and not bumping
• 4:39:38
  into the furniture actually knowing your camera knowing
• 4:39:43
  having to remember where to land and all the little business that
• 4:39:46
  you've got that has to marry up and blah blah and doing it as
• 4:39:50
  part of a continuous recording where if you go wrong, you've
• 4:39:53
  got the whole thing and it has a domino effect.
• 4:39:55
  It's a hugely technical excellent irrespective that
• 4:40:00
  you've got to give a relaxed performance and be good and
• 4:40:04
  funny and energetic and focused and remember all the stuff that
• 4:40:08
  you've heard and give the performance that you want to
• 4:40:10
  give. In terms of interpretation, but
• 4:40:12
  actually the Practical thing of doing multi-camera acting is is
• 4:40:16
  not actually for the faint hearted.
• 4:40:18
  And this isn't this is his first.
• 4:40:22
  Yeah, because dramatic role in the studio, isn't it?
• 4:40:26
  Yeah, it's his first dramatic role in the studio.
• 4:40:28
  I think the he may have done an episode of something but I think
• 4:40:31
  he'd done an episode of a comedy.
• 4:40:32
  I don't think he'd done an episode of a of a drama.
• 4:40:34
  So it's yeah and spearheads all on film spearheads done like a
• 4:40:37
  movie. So yeah. a man who was used to
• 4:40:40
  doing comedy who was a bit nervous about doing serious
• 4:40:44
  stuff and he's the leading man, you know with you know in a sort
• 4:40:51
  of two Studio Days Every Fortnight kind of situation
• 4:40:54
  where you have to get it all in the can is you know, I take my
• 4:40:58
  hat off to him, but I think if there was any doubt go watch
• 4:41:01
  that thing again where he says to measure baking you are ill
• 4:41:07
  you're very very and then he just screams came back, you
• 4:41:10
  know, he's brilliant. Yeah.
• 4:41:12
  Yeah he is and he's not he's not amongst my favorite doctors at
• 4:41:16
  all. But I'm I'm I'm feeling a lot of
• 4:41:18
  perk. We love this year having gone
• 4:41:20
  back to a lot of his stories. have having had a bit of a
• 4:41:25
  downer on him in in between seeing him first in the five
• 4:41:28
  phases of doctor and loving him and then collecting all the
• 4:41:31
  videos and finding his ear a bit disappointing and then getting
• 4:41:34
  over myself and and you know learning to love the purpose
• 4:41:38
  stuff and I'm so so enjoying A sort of reassessing.
• 4:41:47
  Yeah, it's not that I didn't like it but you know the word
• 4:41:51
  and I always like season 7, but I'm I'm actually I'm actually
• 4:41:55
  warming to him so much more now and and I wonder if he's going
• 4:41:59
  he was never near the bottom of my list, but he was certainly
• 4:42:01
  not not near the top of my favorites either but I can write
• 4:42:05
  I can find no fault with him. He's right off of my life.
• 4:42:08
  He's always been one of my face. So like my comfort doctor that
• 4:42:12
  he's that authority figure on never had as a child jump early.
• 4:42:15
  You're in safe hands with him. I think it's the just such a
• 4:42:19
  one-off. Yeah, you know he's and and I
• 4:42:24
  mean nobody could be Tom Baker's description of him being a tall
• 4:42:26
  light bulb, you know, and and he is I'll just call you know,
• 4:42:31
  anyone that can go, you know, hi one second and then be
• 4:42:34
  hypnotizing, you know, a man and monkey suit with a spinning
• 4:42:38
  mirror the next one singing upanishad another boy.
• 4:42:48
  So I have one more you do. well I mean you mentioned Tim Kuhn,
• 4:42:55
  but can I say the film? Oh god, dammit the location
• 4:42:59
  where I was going to like one. I just love it, but it speaks to
• 4:43:04
  so many other elements. It does speak to the direction,
• 4:43:06
  but it also speaks to is it is it Fred Hamilton the camera and
• 4:43:09
  I think I get my camera mixed up somewhere.
• 4:43:12
  There's Peter in this sometimes. There's Peter in this thread.
• 4:43:15
  Now I'll find out was Tony Lego, but it's not a England and I
• 4:43:19
  think it's a Hamilton. How does that anyway and and
• 4:43:29
  yes, we're not throwing away that shot of when anymore and I
• 4:43:34
  I think it's partially because that they hold back the silurian
• 4:43:39
  until the end of episode 3. And I talked before about you
• 4:43:42
  know, big sometimes being a bit of a chore in a darling episode
• 4:43:44
  to wait for the but this is this is a deliberate slowly feeding
• 4:43:49
  out of the image of the which is just a man in a green suit, but
• 4:43:52
  it's built it up so well and they're shot so well throughout
• 4:43:54
  the story anyway, but I love all of that stuff of him coming out
• 4:43:57
  of the caves and silhouetted against the Sun and you see the
• 4:44:01
  slight arch in its back and and then the point of view shots and
• 4:44:04
  that's all film work. But then you get the sweeping
• 4:44:06
  stock on when he won not you know, we didn't know drones in
• 4:44:09
  those days, but they got a haircut and all that stuff with,
• 4:44:12
  you know, Dr. Lauren's, you know, and waving and you get a
• 4:44:15
  real sweep of that the dog so the soldiers in the distance
• 4:44:18
  which gives it a real feel of sort of scale and then you've
• 4:44:21
  got the stuff. You know at the train station
• 4:44:24
  and the death of Masters, you know the film the film camera
• 4:44:27
  work. You know, the actual shooting of
• 4:44:30
  it is really really skillful. But what what all of the film
• 4:44:33
  elements bring to the story different points, it's it's not
• 4:44:39
  just about giving it a sense of scale.
• 4:44:41
  It's it's actually about sometimes the pace of the story
• 4:44:44
  and the movement of the story and and That the tension of the
• 4:44:52
  story and then you know that the high stakes because everybody's
• 4:44:56
  falling down dead in a really popular place and part of you is
• 4:45:01
  going because you know that it's television you go how the hell
• 4:45:02
  did they do this? Because the I mean people why is
• 4:45:04
  nobody going and pointing at the camera?
• 4:45:06
  So there's part you've got part of that they pull this off and
• 4:45:10
  also so yeah, it looks like a train station where I would be
• 4:45:14
  in everyone's dying and I know this is television.
• 4:45:17
  Yeah, it kind of looking like television.
• 4:45:19
  So turning on the TV at the wrong time, you know you yeah,
• 4:45:22
  so yeah, and actually the fact that ends on a film shot as
• 4:45:27
  well. I think yeah that last one where
• 4:45:29
  the cars put in a way or the mushroom goes on.
• 4:45:33
  I love the fact that they actually have the sort of Cohen
• 4:45:37
  is to go we'll have the explosion in the distance as
• 4:45:39
  well. You know, we're not going to be
• 4:45:41
  right. It's it's a kind of it's almost
• 4:45:43
  like it's a sort of You know, that's how pathetic this
• 4:45:47
  Dreadful Act is. It's a flash of light.
• 4:45:52
  Quite a long way away, but we know that those explosions. are
• 4:46:01
  having a you know, a mighty affect, you know, the the
• 4:46:05
  ramifications the you know, the the effect that they have is is
• 4:46:11
  so much bigger than than how they look, you know, just their
• 4:46:15
  popping in the distance. I think it's really it's really
• 4:46:18
  it's sort of destroying all that potential that the doctor can
• 4:46:21
  see. Oh races heartbreaking.
• 4:46:26
  You know, who knows what they could have offered us?
• 4:46:28
  Yeah. My house, I was always contrary
• 4:46:33
  now to suggest carry blind score which I do think is unique and
• 4:46:38
  memorable and weird and all of those things.
• 4:46:41
  I do like in the music. Wow, cuz he's been preying on my
• 4:46:46
  mind a lot. I want to say Norman Jones's
• 4:46:49
  major Baker because like essentially yeah, he's like the
• 4:46:53
  big of this story. I always get back as the worst
• 4:46:56
  example of that character that it's just getting in everyone's
• 4:47:00
  wife all the time and making the story a bit longer than it needs
• 4:47:04
  to be right and Essentially that character he's the one that's
• 4:47:08
  sort of escaping out of hospital is the one that's complaining
• 4:47:12
  about what's happening in the research center.
• 4:47:14
  He's the one that's accusing the doctor of being a traitor but
• 4:47:19
  it's such a thoughtful performance.
• 4:47:20
  Yeah, that's nuanced character you really like him and like I
• 4:47:25
  said earlier he's technically right.
• 4:47:28
  Yeah, well which which helps so I just I just think he's a
• 4:47:32
  really interesting character who in later Doctor Who's would
• 4:47:36
  probably be a bit terrible and a bit sort of Rolly rise and
• 4:47:41
  instead you want to watch it. Anything that gives Norman a
• 4:47:45
  chance to give Norman Jones his due because I think he was a
• 4:47:47
  fine actor as I say, I think he I'm told by one of his relatives
• 4:47:52
  that in in later life. He was he was rather for lawn
• 4:47:55
  about the industry sort of forgetting him and I think
• 4:47:58
  that's very sad, but at the same time then resisted overtures
• 4:48:03
  from the likes of us to get him on the DVDs and things so that
• 4:48:06
  was a shame that he allowed that to consuming because he could
• 4:48:08
  have actually You know, he could have he could have been on all
• 4:48:11
  the DVDs that you only died. The only died in relative terms
• 4:48:15
  relatively recently. He could have been on all those
• 4:48:18
  DVDs but but for whatever reason his his unhappiness with the way
• 4:48:23
  it turned out meant that he you know, he he resisted that which
• 4:48:28
  I think is is rather sad. So I I'm I'm pleased that we get
• 4:48:32
  the opportunity to let these people live on like no
• 4:48:35
  difference to him because he's dead which is very sad, but I'm
• 4:48:37
  glad that we are able to go know your what is work was valued and
• 4:48:42
  I think he's exactly I love it's just little things like when he
• 4:48:44
  says to Sergeant, you know, can you just help me with my jacket
• 4:48:47
  before you know clobbering? It's he does lots of lovely
• 4:48:50
  little sort of touches in your butts.
• 4:48:52
  But then he he's got enough heft to rise to the occasion of the
• 4:48:57
  of the biggest stuff. I think he's I think he's
• 4:49:00
  brilliant as Chris song in in a bombable snowman, which is
• 4:49:03
  potentially much more one note part, but I think he brings a
• 4:49:07
  lot to that. I think he's really good in
• 4:49:09
  what? really this Bizarre Adventures
• 4:49:12
  position where Doctor Who's gone on so long now that you have
• 4:49:16
  access like normal just like Michael Sheard made lots of
• 4:49:21
  Different appearances and you get to see just how diversity is
• 4:49:25
  actors are in different routes and those three roles.
• 4:49:28
  What was the third one? Oh and they're so different are
• 4:49:33
  there. So yeah and what a wonderful
• 4:49:35
  voice he has I think it's best. You know in mask rugby goes very
• 4:49:41
  deep. Does he?
• 4:49:42
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:49:43
  I don't I don't quite get on with the slightly staccato
• 4:49:48
  delivery. He gives her on us when he's
• 4:49:49
  been taken over by the mandragora Helix that I could
• 4:49:53
  see what he's trying to do. There doesn't quite work for me.
• 4:49:55
  It's probably and it's a shame because it's a great part on
• 4:50:00
  paper. He looks fantastic, but he's
• 4:50:01
  probably my least favorite to his of his turns in who but I
• 4:50:07
  still glad he's there in in mandragora but I remember being
• 4:50:12
  slightly disappointed because when you it was gonna be him and
• 4:50:15
  I thought oh brilliant, he's one of my favorite actors and he's
• 4:50:17
  playing this great part. That's really good in the book
• 4:50:19
  and then going ah, and actually founding finding cat Federico by
• 4:50:24
  the gorgeous John Lauren Moore who's a bit sort of one note
• 4:50:27
  villain in the book you write. I love it.
• 4:50:36
  What is it you No more tell the Stars than you could tell the
• 4:50:39
  contents of my chamber pot. Or gloriously can't business
• 4:50:44
  wise wonderful. Well.
• 4:50:49
  You know, it's quartz 12. I'm gonna let you go to bed.
• 4:50:51
  I want to say a massive. Thank you because she realized
• 4:50:55
  we've managed to add on about 20 minutes, whichever.
• 4:50:58
  So we technically been talking about the silence for about five
• 4:51:01
  hours now. Can I apologize to you listeners
• 4:51:04
  know? Thank you.
• 4:51:05
  So sorry. I love listening to you, but I
• 4:51:08
  would say a massive. Thank you for your time.
• 4:51:10
  I was talking about Julie. I hate me.
• 4:51:13
  I think I was everywhere. I was really fun.
• 4:51:16
  I am so here so well bless you. Hey go.
• 4:51:23
  I'm gonna try and entice you back on this thing at some
• 4:51:25
  points. Do another one what we gonna do
• 4:51:27
  what you gonna tell me. Oh go down the Courtland.
• 4:51:31
  Oh you put on the spot. Did we do a new series one
• 4:51:36
  because that's not my comfort zone or just got two episodes.
• 4:51:40
  I'd love to do and I think you'd like them.
• 4:51:44
  I think you said like one of them do you like Sandra from the
• 4:51:47
  last of the time was? Well interesting because I
• 4:51:50
  remember them being quite a disappointment at the time.
• 4:51:53
  That was the General tenor of the of the conversation at the
• 4:51:57
  time. I actually I do like them.
• 4:52:00
  I I like the kind of urban Thriller feel that they have and
• 4:52:07
  there are certain things that I absolutely adore certain bits
• 4:52:10
  that don't quite work for me. But no I do I do like them.
• 4:52:15
  There's certainly a lot to say about them.
• 4:52:17
  I mean, I love all of Russell's here.
• 4:52:20
  I'm a sick of fantastic, you know admirer of what Russell T
• 4:52:26
  Davis Dr. Even though I you know, I'm you know, I'm I'm
• 4:52:32
  aware of some things that that people quite rightly point out
• 4:52:36
  perhaps that don't work as well as they might but I I think
• 4:52:40
  everything is bought with with the huge current sea of that
• 4:52:45
  that wit that Zeal that pace that heart that all of that.
• 4:52:49
  I just think it's a miracle what he did to Doctor Who so, why was
• 4:52:55
  he my eternity is a two part that I have grown to love a lot.
• 4:53:01
  And I'd like to press some love for why you feel about it and
• 4:53:05
  that is right is assignment in the age of Steel.
• 4:53:08
  I remember. quite disappointing at the time but it's when you
• 4:53:13
  look back now and you sometimes go we don't have lucky how lucky
• 4:53:17
  we were. Yeah, nothing Chillin assignment
• 4:53:21
  word that first episode. Uh, yeah.
• 4:53:24
  I mean, I would of the two I would probably choose last of
• 4:53:31
  the time Lords, but I'm I'm open to doing let's do that then
• 4:53:34
  let's do Sounders. All right.
• 4:53:38
  All right, let's talk about that.
• 4:53:39
  And yeah, okay. Well you hear first so did we we
• 4:53:42
  all that's how you know, when a drums came out.
• 4:53:46
  I loved it so much. I must have watched that 15
• 4:53:49
  times in a weekly not to laugh at the time not I already know
• 4:53:53
  my one my first of my three things which is just and it's
• 4:53:57
  it's just a bit, but I just love it.
• 4:54:00
  Wow, I cannot wait Toby. Thank you very much.
• 4:54:03
  It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for doing this lovely
• 4:54:07
  podcast and for being such an enthusiastic.
• 4:54:10
  We've only met for about 30 seconds, but I know thank you
• 4:54:15
  for doing this and and thank you for asking me on it.
• 4:54:18
  It's a great pleasure. until next time I'm out.