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What Actually Works in Healthcare Marketing with Seth Turnoff · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:01
  This is where health care leadership comes together.
• 0:04
  Becker's sixteenth annual meeting brings more than 3,500
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  hospital and health system executives and nearly 800
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  speakers to Chicago,
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  April
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  the sixteenth. This year's event includes keynote conversations
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  with Dallas Cowboys legend Troy Aikman and former
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  president George w Bush. For the agenda and
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  event details, visit beckershospitalreview.com
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  and click on the events tab in the
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  upper right. We're looking forward to hosting you
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  in Chicago.
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  This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare
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  Podcast,
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  but we're thrilled today to be joined by
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  a brilliant marketer, a brilliant thinker. We're joined
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  today by Seth Turnoff,
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  and Seth's gonna talk to us today about
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  what trends he's watching, what's working, what's not
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  working in marketing, and a lot more. Seth,
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  we're so thrilled to have you on today.
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  Yes. Scott, thank you so much. Longtime listener,
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  first time guest. Big day for me.
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  Well well, we're thrilled to have you on.
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  Talk about
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  talk about your your your career
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  and and really what you do currently.
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  Sure. Sure.
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  I got started in health care in the
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  wonderful,
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  exciting, and dynamic, sexy world of medical billing.
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  Yeah. It's not sexy. It's not dynamic. It's,
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  it's miserable, but I learned really quickly the
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  game that goes on. And while I was
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  doing that job, I, I was on hold
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  a lot. See, I was on on a
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  denials management team, so it was my job
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  to to fight with,
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  the processors
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  slash payers,
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  trying to get claims paid and corrected for
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  our clients. And so I did a lot
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  of daydreaming
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  at this job, and I tried to figure
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  out a way to move the revenue needle
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  for our physician, our MSO, our private practice
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  clients,
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  that didn't have anything to do with billing.
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  And so I I ended up doing a
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  real deep dive into marketing and what was
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  available
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  at the retail level
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  in in health care, you know, for private
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  practices.
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  And
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  I saw a huge gap in the market
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  and that, you know, you have an industry
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  that is
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  highly regulated, and marketing was never really
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  part of the health care delivery system. Right?
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  It just
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  if you were
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  a clinician,
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  you know, if you were a physician, a
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  specialist,
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  you you would go to school,
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  and you would get your credentials once you
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  finished, and then you would practice your craft
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  and and practice medicine. And marketing really never
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  played a role in that until, you know,
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  the last ten, fifteen years, everything started to
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  change.
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  And now you take the most highly regulated
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  industry
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  possibly in the world,
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  next to finance,
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  and
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  you
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  you try to bolt on these marketing components
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  to it
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  in a compliant way. And so
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  so I saw the need that practices had
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  in
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  awareness,
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  in increasing volume,
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  and it's really difficult to do this. You
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  know, marketing works very well. That's why companies
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  it it's a billion multibillion dollar industry.
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  But in health care, it it's sort of
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  a different animal, and it takes someone who
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  understands the, the health care ecosystem,
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  to to be able to do it effectively.
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  So what we did is my my partner
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  and I, we,
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  we we leverage consumer data to identify most
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  qualified and most highly likely consumers
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  for specific services
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  or procedures.
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  And
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  due to our data, our compliant consumer data,
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  we're able to put ads directly in front
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  of a very specific audience at scale and
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  on repeat, which has proven,
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  incredibly valuable
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  for, for our private practice clients.
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  Thank you so much. Take a second, Seth,
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  on this. You mentioned you started your career
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  I'm gonna ask you two follow-up questions to
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  what you just said. You you mentioned you
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  you started your career in denials management.
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  That's gonna be one question how that has
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  not changed over the last twenty, thirty years.
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  Maybe it's going more electronic, more AI driven,
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  but it still is the battle of all
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  battles between payers and providers.
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  And second, are there specific areas,
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  specific specialties, specific types of patients or procedures
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  that you are most focused on and work
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  with people the most on. So those two
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  questions.
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  Sure. Whether it's really been changes to dials
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  management or that's still the same fight, it's
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  amazing that we're still talking about it twenty
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  years later, whatever month and time later. And
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  second, what specialties and areas, Seth, do you
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  guys do a lot of work in? Sure.
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  Great follow ups. So denials management, it's
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  it it is not
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  surprising that it hasn't changed. They're not payers.
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  We call them payers, but this is not
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  really the case. They're processors, And it's kind
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  of in their business model to not pay.
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  So the fact that, you know, and now
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  when you have, you know, so many physicians
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  working
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  for payers, the
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  it it feels like the the snowball has
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  grown
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  to a size that it's it's
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  unruly now and and uncontrollable.
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  So, you know, and
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  I'm not here to to just point
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  or identify
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  problems in the industry. You know, we can't
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  solve them all, but it's really hard to
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  exist and not recognize the fact that you
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  have a system
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  that has taken,
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  providers and and pro the the term itself
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  provider,
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  it's an insurance based term. These are physicians.
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  These are doctors,
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  and we're making them administrators. When when an
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  administrative burden in insurance protocol
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  takes up
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  seventy,
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  eighty percent of a clinician's day,
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  it's a little bit out of formula. And
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  that's just my opinion. Right? I'm a clinical
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  tourist. I sit better in the in the
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  business office than I do,
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  in in a in in a clinic, but,
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  these these issues that exist are really hard
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  to ignore. And, you know, ask anybody and,
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  you know, yourself,
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  they are they are quite prevalent, and I
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  don't know that they're gonna go away anytime
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  soon. You know, you mentioned
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  AI in denials management.
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  Sure. We have tools now that that make
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  it a little more streamlined,
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  but it's not changing the process. It's not
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  changing the fact that, you know, little things
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  will cause a delay in in in physician
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  reimbursement.
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  And, you know, it might be a couple
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  bucks here, maybe a $100 there, couple cents
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  over there, but it definitely adds up.
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  So, in terms of specialty focus for our
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  program
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  and our program works great where you have
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  higher reimbursement
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  procedures,
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  that do have
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  that carry patient or consumer choice.
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  You know, when you're talking about marketing and
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  spending money
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  to acquire patients or or create visibility and
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  awareness, you probably want to spend that money
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  where it's most valuably able to return to
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  you. Right? So,
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  orthopedics has been great for us. That's where
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  we started, and we are heavily
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  leveraged into orthopedics,
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  all subspecialties,
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  as well as, cardiac care and vascular.
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  We the program does work very well with,
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  dermatology,
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  both clinical
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  and,
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  aesthetic
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  as well as, as plastic surgery as well
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  and, you know, gastro and and a lot
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  of other big specialties, ENT,
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  where,
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  where patient choice
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  is at play. Now for a lot of
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  these specialties,
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  you know, you talk to any,
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  talk to any ENT in a major market,
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  and they're like, I don't need more patients.
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  Right? They have a back clog. So, certainly,
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  volume is
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  is critical for certain groups,
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  but they have to have the bandwidth to,
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  to accept and release that. So well taken.
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  It's bigger groups with bigger procedures that that
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  that every procedure is worth a decent amount
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  of money so that they really wanna have
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  it. Right? I mean
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  Of of course. But when you layer in,
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  operational
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  efficiencies
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  that
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  they're able to look. Just volume on the
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  front end is only gonna get you halfway
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  there. If if it's not appropriately tackled, you're
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  it's gonna create more operational
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  failures, and things will break internally,
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  especially when it's, you know, patient facing,
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  on the the admin side or even, you
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  know, an access issue where, you know, cases
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  need to be rescheduled because of, you know,
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  just,
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  bandwidth issues. So, certainly, it's it's a a
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  balancing act, and it's hard to have one
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  without the other. You don't wanna create access
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  without,
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  the volume, and you don't wanna create volume
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  without access. So it's definitely, there there's some
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  nuance there.
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  No. And you're you're really right on. Because
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  there's a sole added. You never wanna get
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  your sales and marketing too far ahead of
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  your delivery, because then you don't deliver well,
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  and that's no good either. So they they
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  really have to be in sync, don't they?
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  100%.
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  So take a second on this year, 2026.
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  What are you most focused on and excited
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  about?
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  Yeah. I love this question.
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  So the past
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  eight to twelve months, we've been seeing a
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  pattern that groups are
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  jumping right into an investment,
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  jumping right into new service lines, jumping right
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  into a new location
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  with limited to no
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  intelligence,
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  meaning
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  limited
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  data
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  that validates and backs up and creates a
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  road map for this investment. So, you know,
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  we we've had groups that come to us
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  and and think they want, you know, patient
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  acquisition, think they want,
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  you know, more volume for a specific service
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  line. And when we do our due diligence,
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  it turns out that you look. If you're
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  making this investment, I hear what you're saying.
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  But in order to handle this, you need
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  to fix this first. So we've seen groups
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  kind of move forward in this, you know,
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  they want this thing or they think this
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  is the move
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  without the data to back it up. So
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  what we've done is we created,
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  a a program called the practice market fit.
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  And, you know, any startup,
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  will not spend a dollar until they establish
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  product market fit, making sure that the dollars
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  are being spent in the right way. This
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  is the same thing, but for for medical
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  practices. And it's a it's a a cross
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  section of their market and geographic analysis. They're
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  a competitive assessment, including, like, their top competitors
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  and where they could win against them. A
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  digital visibility
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  scoring,
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  patient access analysis, meaning, like, their digital front
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  door. How
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  are there friction points for patients being able
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  to to gain access to you? Your AI
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  search readiness, how you are positioned to show
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  up where most many consumers
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  are having conversations digitally now, as well as
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  highlighting strategic opportunities
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  based on all of this data. Right? Prioritized
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  actionable
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  growth opportunities that are tailored to a practice's
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  unique position.
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  So moving more from just a a delivery
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  mechanism
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  for for our program
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  to more of a diagnostic
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  analysis and business intelligence position at a
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  a a tremendously accessible price. I was I
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  was actually called stupid
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  the other day when someone heard that we've
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  priced this report at $497
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  for for the initial report.
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  And it's, you know, 15 to 20 pages
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  depending on the practice in the market. And
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  they they playfully called me dumb that that
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  I that this was priced too low, but
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  that's the point.
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  Private practices need an edge. They need something
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  so that they can stand on their two
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  feet and compete against these larger systems, these
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  giant, you know, corporate behemoths that have really
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  big marketing budgets, and it's getting harder and
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  harder for the, for the smaller groups to
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  actually compete with that. So this was in
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  response to that. This was this was a
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  mechanism that's accessible that can help them make
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  better decisions because the last thing we need
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  are small health care organizations
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  making very expensive
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  mistakes.
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  100%. Let let me ask you one final
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  question, Seth. Take a moment on what advice
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  do you give to emerging leaders or people
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  trying to be great on the marketing side?
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  What what advice do you give people?
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  I would
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  I would focus on the fact that there
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  is no hack.
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  There is no silver bullet. There is no
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  quick fix.
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  It's just a combination
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  of good thoughtful
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  work and empathy when you're dealing with consumer
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  audiences and and a patient base. You have
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  to see it through their lens, and you
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  have to deliver what they're looking for. Yes.
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  There's compliance.
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  Yes. There's operational pitfalls and and and clinical
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  nuances,
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  but it comes down to
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  what the patient and consumer is looking for.
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  What I would say is stay focused on
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  your goals. Don't get distracted
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  by noise or
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  flashy things. Yep. I know everybody's heard of
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  AI. We might all be sick of hearing
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  about it, but we need to get used
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  to it because it's here and, you know,
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  it's going to evolve deeper and and more
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  impactful than than we had thought. But it's
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  not a distraction. I think it's more like
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  a get on the bus.
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  So my best advice is to stay focused,
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  stay grounded,
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  and always
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  consider what the patient truly wants.
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  But but, Seth, I love what you just
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  said because at the end of the day,
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  people are looking for a magic bullet.
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  In my experience, there's almost never is one.
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  There might be levers that you could pull,
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  but almost always those levers and whatever you're
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  doing have to be worked correctly, thoughtfully, and
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  intelligently
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  and with with with with rigor to to
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  make them make a difference. And then you
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  gotta be able to deliver the services. You
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  just can't turn on the marketing spigot without
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  being able to deliver great services because you
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  need both great commercialization
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  and great services. Right? Well, the best marketing
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  can only occur
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  if the experience delivers on what the marketing
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  promises.
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  I agree with that more. Seth, let's wrap
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  up. Tell me where people could find you
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  and learn more about what Seth Turnoff does
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  and your and your team does? Yeah. Sure.
• 14:23
  You can go to, practicemarketfit.com.
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  I hang out on LinkedIn. My name is
• 14:28
  Seth Turnoff. It's true. That is my real
• 14:31
  last name. Can tell more about that later.
• 14:33
  And I post regularly.
• 14:35
  Please engage with the content,
• 14:38
  and,
• 14:39
  yeah, if you wanted to text me, it's
• 14:41
  850
• 14:42
  Seth.
• 14:44
  Love that. Love that. 850
• 14:46
  Seth, thank you so much for joining us
• 14:48
  today on the Becker's Healthcare podcast. What a
• 14:50
  pleasure to visit with you. Thank you very,
• 14:51
  very much. Thank you, Scott. Always a pleasure.