Latest / TIPS Podcast / JUST SA Polokwane — Modjadji Rangwato and Stanley Phahladira

Transcript

JUST SA Polokwane — Modjadji Rangwato and Stanley Phahladira · TIPS Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast Tips Talk, the show where we delve into the fascinating world of economics and its impact on global development.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Tobani Kaye, and today we are asking why is it important for local and provisional government officials in the Limbopo province to understand the impact of climate change and the imperative to decarbonize our economy as well as make the transition just.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: We are finding ourselves in Pologwani today.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: We see how government officials can turn policy into action.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have two lovely guests with me today who are joining me.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I will ask them to introduce themselves.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good morning.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I am Mojaji Rangwadu.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working for Capricorn District Municipality.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's in Pologwani.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then my role there, I'm in operations manager, environmental management.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we are responsible for the whole environmental management, specifically also as a core function of the district, is air quality management and climate change.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we are also responsible for mainstreaming climate change into municipal planning and operations.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: All right, thank you very much, Tobani, for the opportunity.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Stanley Patadira.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the manager responsible for integrated development planning.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I'm also with the Capricorn District Municipality, a municipality that you find here in the province.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: A municipality that prides itself as the home of excellency and opportunities for all.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: That is our vision and that is our motto.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and good to be joining you guys from Just SA.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're really looking forward to more interactions with you.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: All right, thank you very much.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's an honor to have you on today's podcast.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: My first question to you is what has stood out in this day and a half of the training on the just transition?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think previously my understanding of just transition was shallow.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then this training workshop has deepened my understanding.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know that the just transitioned and green economy, and now I know like it has things that should be focused on.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like they indicated that there's the procedural part that talks to making inclusive, transparent decisions, and then also there's the distributive that it has to be inclusive.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to leave other people behind, and also the restorative, it has to address the past environmental and social inequalities.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now I think my understanding has deepened.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I now understand like what does it mean and what is required of us in the municipalities when we do our IGPs, when we do our day-to-day work, we now know like where we should be channeling issues of climate change to make sure that when we say this is inclusive, this does not leave anyone behind, and then people are not put at a worse-off position where they are, and also with regard to the SDGs, like affordable clean energy, decent work, yeah, all those kinds of things.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the understanding has deepened.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you once more, uh Twani.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think equally with what my colleague has outlined, you know, when I came in, I came in on a very limited understanding and knowledge around just transition.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: But the two days workshop that I've then been able to, you know, learn a lot with regard to just transition and how can that be localized.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think what became key to me was the how do we then localize the just transition and the interventions that as municipalities and also as government we can then implement going back home to ensure that we try and provide that necessary support to transition as a country, as the district to transition as also local municipalities.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the last two days has been very worth it in terms of you know understanding, broadening our understanding on what is just transition and how it can transform the local economy using various ways like your solar, the sun, and all that aspect that are remaining key.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And as an integrated development planning practitioner, I think it will also be very critical as we continue to mainstream some of the issues into our strategic plans like your integrated development plan, your environmental management plan, your disaster management plan, and also your special development framework.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So those remain key planning instruments in the space of municipalities.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we're obviously going to somehow infuse some of the issues relating to just transition.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very, very, very good program.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we really appreciate for coming to the province and you know sharing this understanding and on just transition.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much, Stanley.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um Judgy.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: My top second question to that is in your line of work, the both of you, how do you implement or plan on implementing just transition policies?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think this training came at a good time for our municipality.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: The next financial year is the new cycle for IDP.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like the five-year IDP is coming to an end at the end of this financial year.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So which means the next IDP cycle is a new cycle.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And as our municipality, we are planning, we have already started mainstreaming climate change.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So this training came at a very good time for us because as we are now mainstreaming climate change, we will make sure that we don't leave the just transition in our mainstreaming.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it will be embedded into our policies.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then to make sure that the focus is not only on the municipal employees, the projects that we are doing, as we will be also doing the consultations when we talk to communities, it means now we will also be making sure that we are not leaving them behind.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Their situation, we are integrating them into the planning that we will be doing as a municipality.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like those kind of things.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then again, if you realize that our district, we are housing a municipality that is the economic hub of the province.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then the municipalities is industrial, agricultural.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we will have to also make sure that those industries are not left behind.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: They should be having the skills, be ready to make sure that as we plan the energy, like our Polugani municipality, they are the energy supplier authority.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying it with the exact words, but yes, we will make sure that at least they have to ensure that they continue enforcing and implementing the energy requirements for new buildings.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like now I know they are requiring that every house that is built, they have to also include a solar geizer.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So also maybe if tapping into renewable energy, how they can also be using that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the kind of things that we will be doing on our day-to-day.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And also making sure that there is a balance for environmental protection, economic development, social activities.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just to make sure that everything is balanced.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is how we will make sure that we are putting this forward in our planning and operations.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: I see.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Stanley, what could you say to that?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think equally what comes very critical to me in ensuring that uh we continue to highlight the issues of just transition.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's around stakeholder engagement, although my colleague has already touched on it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because to me, if you are able to then collaborate with all the agencies and the all the three spheres of government, it's important that you interact with such agencies to ensure that you achieve your goal of a just uh transition society.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So collaboration, partnership becomes very, very important for us to achieve the just transition or yes, all the aspects of just transition in the society.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: My final question.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: In looking at your municipality and in looking at the province at large, what would you identify as challenges and opportunities when it comes to the just transition?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: As I will be answering these questions, I'm not going to say these are the challenges, these are the opportunities.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I will just be talking, then identifying challenges and opportunities there and there.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Then because I know as a province, the municipalities, we do have climate change policies and also environmental policies like plans and all that, but you may find that they are not really aligned.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then also as municipalities, we don't have human resource capacity, like it is limited.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: You find that even now when you are attending the just transition, you find there is something related to the environment that you are also required to be there.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we have limited resources, financial, human capacity, and all those kinds of things.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then also it's like making sure that in the alignment of policy, we are also making sure that people are not working in silos.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because we find that the IDP is doing something, environment is doing something, infrastructure, they are doing something.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: We are a water service authority.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: You find that they are doing something, but we are not talking to each other, everyone is going about their business.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there is an opportunity for collaboration, for working together.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think maybe if you can realize from our municipality now in this training workshop, we are well represented.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have IGP, we have special planning.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Today, our transport planner has joined us.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we have environment, we are trying to work together on issues that are affecting all of us.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And all of us are coming from the planning department.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we are trying as much to work together.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there are challenges that sometimes it's difficult also for people to understand the what is climate change, what is the just transition.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there are challenges of getting the buy-in, like from colleagues, from management, from politicians.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if we give them the opportunity to have the knowledge and the understanding, we will have that buy-in, and then we can move forward.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that if we can really, really have the political will and the buy-in, it is not difficult if we provide them with knowledge and information that is required.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Then we can move forward very well.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And also again, I think there's a challenge of unemployment, the youth.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we will need collaboration with academic institutions, research facilities, industries, also again working with industries to have more, like not just enforcing, but collaborations to say, okay, this is what we are having, and how can we tackle this?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like working together, public-private sector partnerships.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there are opportunities, there are challenges.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: On the issue of working in silos, I'm transferring this question to Stanley before he answers the opportunities and challenges.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to know, because it's not a limpo issue, it happens pretty much everywhere in municipalities and government institutions.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Can't we create some sort of a mandate and policies that actually invite everyone to work together instead?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why can't we think like that?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think a very good question, in the sense that where we find ourselves now as the three spheres of government is the issue of how then do we align our planning cycles.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because our planning cycle is different.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: The province, remember the financial year of the at national level or in the province, it starts on the 1st of April.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: But with the municipalities, it starts on the 1st of July.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I think there's a need as and when government is currently looking at how do we look at the reforms in terms of the way in which local government is operating.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Then some of the issues I think you're quite correct, we need to start looking into that to assist us in terms of how do we then address the issue of silo planning and silo implementation because those are some of the things that, you know, takes us a little bit back in terms of seeing progress with implementation of various programs that are being implemented by government.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: But what the president has announced some years back in a form of the district development model, it's one model that will then try or attempt to address the issue of silo planning in terms of narrowing the gaps between them and us and also bringing in all stakeholders that are needed to speed up service delivery.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: In this case, I'm talking about traditional leaders, your state-owned enterprises, ordinary citizens, and the civil society or non-governmental organization.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it becomes critical that let's embrace the district development model, which will then be able to assist us in terms of dealing with the silo planning in government.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we are noting and we're also agreeing and acknowledging that silo planning compromises uh you know service delivery because one will implement a particular project or the pro, for example, the province or the department of education will plan for construction of a school, but they will never, you know, at some point not consulting with the local communities or with the local municipality because equally, as municipalities, we have got responsibility to put up infrastructure, remember, water and sanitation to ensure that that school operates there.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's no that type of collaboration, that type of engagement, that type of interaction, then it becomes a problem.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of the challenges also, I think the other issue is the effective implementation of the policies that we have.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: In the plenary, there somebody was saying we are one government that, you know, in terms of development of policies were very good, but in terms of implementation, it still remains a challenge.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, you know, effective implementation of policies will help us a great deal in terms of ensuring that we move as a country.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: So on the just transition aspect, do you want to comment on that in terms of opportunities and challenges of the country?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else you would like to add?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think for me, opportunities are in abundance.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think from the presentations that we received, particularly with the other countries who are also working towards just a transition to a decarbonized South Africa.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, I think they are.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Although yesterday we touched a little bit on some of the programs and projects that we may need to implement.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: As the province, one of our biggest opportunities is with regard to the climate conditions.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: The temperatures in the province are in the always high.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to take advantage of that in terms of the energy, renewable energy as well.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So those are some of the things either fear.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And although in terms of agriculture, yes, we may also need to take advantage of that as part of the opportunities to deal with the issue of the green economy.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there are opportunities that are in the district or in the province.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for joining us, Stanley and Mujaji.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any final remarks?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think we would also want to appreciate your presence here and this training.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we will be knocking at your doors very soon.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm happy to hear that.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you guys for joining us today.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's been lovely to hear what you guys think and feel about the training as well as the opportunities and challenges that you see ahead regarding this just transition.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: That wraps up today's episode.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: A huge thank you to our guests for sharing their expertise and time with us, and also for attending this training.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: We hope you will continue to champion the mandate of greening the economy in a just and equitable way.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And to our listeners, your support means the world.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, sustainable growth is not just a goal, but a path to a more resilient and prosperous future.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and connect with us on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time,