Latest / 100% Maybe / Ep. 50 - Hebrews: Jesus is Greater

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Ep. 50 - Hebrews: Jesus is Greater · 100% Maybe

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm good.
0:01
SPEAKER_01: And we're not ready for that.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, today.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: Good morning to good afternoon.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: I guess it depends on when you good eating.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: You could be watching this at midnight.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: You could be.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: But this is a special episode.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Do you know why?
0:17
SPEAKER_00: Is this 50?
0:18
SPEAKER_00: This is 50.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Woo! I can feel it.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah?
0:21
SPEAKER_00: 50.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: 50.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Episode 50.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: They've done 50 of these.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Actually, we've done more, but 50 official 100% maybe.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Halfway to a Hundo.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: This is good, man.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Most podcasts never get beyond 10.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, people start one.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: I did not know that.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, 10 is like five times.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Five times the average.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh many people think, hey, I want to start a podcast and that thing flutters.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: You'll have balloons or something.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: You know what's funny?
0:48
SPEAKER_00: I thought about bringing something, but I thought about it too late to be able to do that.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: So I 50.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh, there no, don't touch that.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: It's a very important piece of artifactuality.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: I will bring something, and I tell you what, if we make a hundred, it'll bring something very significant to you.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: I say if we do a hundred, we should shoot it with a live studio audience.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: That'd be fun.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: How many years?
1:14
SPEAKER_01: How many years would that be?
1:15
SPEAKER_01: That's uh how many weeks would be 25 more weeks?
1:18
SPEAKER_01: Next year sometime.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: What's half a year from now?
1:20
SPEAKER_01: What season is that?
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Easter.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: But that'd be 75.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, sorry.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Come on, preacher math.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's preacher math.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: 75's 100.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: 50.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 50 would put us around this time next year.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Since we got 52 of these things.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it'd be in the fall next year.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Maybe welcome home.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Launch.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: We can make a date down.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Sell tickets?
1:46
SPEAKER_00: No.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: That's a preacher thing to do.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: I'll just pass the basket.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: That yeah.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Well.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: How's that any better?
1:55
SPEAKER_00: It's not.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: It's not any better.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, welcome.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: We're glad you're here.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: And uh we are excited.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of lot of feelings going on about this series.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm deep in thought.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: Deep in thought.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: And isn't that the point?
2:14
SPEAKER_01: We have systematically worked through scripture to teach as many of these books as we can.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: One of the things you'll get at Community Life Church is you will get studies that are rooted in Scripture, all while also teaching entire books of Scripture.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: Meaning there were certain, there were some that had that were more doctrinal or theologically rich that we pushed towards the back because we wanted to grow as a church so that when they showed up, we'd be ready for them.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: But that means that they are coming and here they are.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: The first one.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: Like when you think of Hebrews and you think of Romans, some of these deeper books that you got to take time and you got to dig into, it's just what it is.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think my natural apprehension is people show up on a Sunday and they want to learn something, they want to laugh, have a good time, and you know, enjoy it and walk away with something.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: This is tough.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Some tough teaching here.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: It's it's pretty weighty.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: It's weighty as a game.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: I won't say heavy.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't use that.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: You might some people I know are feeling confused a little bit by it.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, too, we're um I don't know if we said it.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: We say we're in Hebrews.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: We're studying Hebrews, yeah.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we should probably say that.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: We're studying Hebrews, yeah.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh so we're in the book of Hebrews.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: So two the first two chapters, there's what, eleven chapters?
3:36
SPEAKER_00: Eleven or twelve?
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Thirteen.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Um so he's in the very theological books, you have to start with what you're writing about or what what your what your theory is.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what's your point?
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: So it takes a while because the middle chapters are so so so so rich.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: So it never stops being super uh weighty and very doctrinal, very theological.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: But also I think you know, he keeps expanding on his points to some so it's it's tough sometimes to take a first couple chapters and be like, okay, cool, got it.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: You're you're like, wait, what?
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, and we love we love community life church seems to be.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: We love the beginning of a letter is a greeting, and here's the audience.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: And let me paint a picture for the average Joe that was listening to this.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: This is a research paper establishing Jesus as superior over all things.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: So if you know, like if you want some fun Saturday reading, go read a research paper.
4:41
unknown: Right?
4:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it doesn't make you don't know some of you guys out there like, I love research papers.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: It's not your typical, you know, have fun, you know, hang around the house, enjoy enjoyment.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: But that's how Hebrews reads.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a statement followed by scripture with a deeper statement followed by scripture written to a different group of people.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: So the things that they write about may not be the same things that we even care about today.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's a book that connects more Old Testament and New Testament theology than this one, though.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: It's full of Old Testament, it's the fulfillment of what all the Old Testament was pointing to.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: So when you say research paper, I get, I get it.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: I would say you can't ever, or maybe some people can, I wouldn't be moved by research paper, but your heart can absolutely be stirred and moved, even through the weightiness of this, because I think you are able to see a fuller picture of who Jesus is.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: I think ultimately the goal of this writing.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's me.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: That that might that's not everybody, but okay.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Um do you think because not knowing the exact context, authorship, and things like that is harder to to get into the story a little bit?
5:57
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't allow well for as a preacher, if we were in a classroom and we could just go, we could take 12 verses, that'd be great.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: But we're on a Sunday morning, and what what we you know we talk about context, yeah, don't you the context you have is that it was written before 70 AD, and it's written to a Jewish audience.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: That's why it's called Hebrews, Jewish audience that believes in Jesus.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: And the baseline is they're contending for them to fight for the faith that they have while also giving you proofs to why Jesus is superior than the system that they grew up in.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: So if you're a Jewish person, you hold to a system.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: You always have.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: This is the Savior.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: This is what the system pointed towards.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: So the writer of Hebrews is saying, hey, the one that the system was all about is here.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: And let me show you step by step the different this you don't like research paper, but that's what he does.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: He backs up all of his facts by putting in a scripture.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: By we call it Old Testament, he's using their scripture to prove the statements that he makes.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: And then he just mixes a transitional phrase in between them and he'll link together seven Old Testament scriptures.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: So from the prospect of teaching, you know, pick anything.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I would, I would like to teach a, you know, like if I'm gonna teach about Philippians, Philippians is a cool city that's uh, you know, in the northern part of that that part of the world where uh Roman colony, um, here's what these people believe about, uh believe um this is who would have typically been listening.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: There wasn't a Jewish population there.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: So you get all that stuff.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Here you don't get that.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: You don't get the happy go-lucky of trying to position yourself.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: You have to make some assumptions around it, although it has a context.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And it speaks it has to speak for itself as to the the content of it.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: What they say, how they back it up, right?
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Take it or leave it, that's what they're that's what they're saying.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: Ton of references to Psalms here, which we'll get into in the first chapter.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, why did you mention we know it's written before 70?
7:56
SPEAKER_01: Because the writer talks about the the temple and sacrifices, he calls it the tabernacle over and over and over again.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, the ta the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: So scholars believe that if that would have happened, it would have been spoken of differently, maybe in the text.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, a lot of the canon, the way books canon, why why books were added to the New Testament or vetted, usually because they were either first person or second person connected to Christ.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: So they could the the veracity would be that they could prove that these were from the people who spent time with Jesus.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, he we don't know who the author of Hebrews is, but it was such a prominent part of the early believers that it was just readily accepted as one that would that would be in.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: They don't know if Paul wrote it, Apollos wrote it, some other unknown person wrote it.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: Clement of Rome.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Clement of Rome.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: There's all kind of insight out there as to who wrote it, but nobody really knows.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: And um, and it's and it's great, and it's not different than what we believe or what scripture interprets for us.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: So we hold on to it.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: So the content, that test of canonicity, authorship, the content of it, the context of it, all those things that they're looking at.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, how do you want to tackle this?
9:12
SPEAKER_00: One bite at a time.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I I, you know, it's a struggle for me.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: I think I think we have to start with the main goal in mind and then back into it.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, chapters, so we divided up chapters one, two, three, four.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh, there is a statement that's made in the beginning that really kind of sets the baseline, I believe, for the whole thing.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: So if you learn nothing else throughout all of Hebrews, Jesus is superior.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: He is God.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: Period.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: Now, now you have to imagine that you're Jewish, so there's your context.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: So, what are the things that I hold dear as a Jewish person that Jesus is superior to?
9:46
SPEAKER_01: And then he lists he goes through and puts information, he's superior to the angels, which in our context, we think of angels as differently.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: If you're Jewish, an angel is a messenger who delivered the Torah.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: So you think good.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: What do you think we think of with angels?
10:04
SPEAKER_01: We've we've done all kinds of crazy stuff with angels, right?
10:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's all sorts of belief systems all over the place about angels.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: So what it does is it it convolutes our conversation around angels.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know what else to say about that, right?
10:18
SPEAKER_01: So I think for me, by choosing the word messenger, and he does have insight in here as to what they think angels were, yeah.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: But to think of the word messenger, it gives us the best understanding of how they would have thought of angels.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Because if the angels were the ones that delivered Torah, then they were very, very important and they were elevated in the thought of a Jewish person.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: But if we read this and we start to parcel between Jesus and an angel and the ranking and a score and all those stuff, you get lost in the text.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Whereas to a first century Jewish person, they would have probably held this differently.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: So you can read, see that reference in Acts, I think it's seven in Galatians, that the thought of the Mosaic law, so the commandments and the law given to Moses was mediated by angels.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: So we don't get a lot of other detail about that, but that was the thinking of that they played a part.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: They are slightly lower than God, they're not gods, they're lower than, but they're also higher than pretty much.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: And he does at the end of chapter one, he gives his own definition or redefinition as to what an angel is.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, unfortunately.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: But but you know, the the the the the the danger in all of this is to make this about angels.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: It's not.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: You cannot, you cannot lose the main point, which is Jesus is superior to all of them.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: So chapter one, Jesus is superior to everything, and then he starts the argument about being superior to angels because he's the son of God.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: And then chapter two, it's this really weird math where but he allowed himself to be just under angels so that he lower than angels so that he can experience all the things that we do as as humanity until he was then crowned and enthroned.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: So there's there's like this weird, he's superior to, but oh yeah, for a period of time he wasn't.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: That's what this is why it can get so confusing when you're trying to teach it because of the way the many layered approaches.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: Is that weird or is that the I guess if you were trying to pull an example of something of I'm gonna tell you who Jesus is, and I'm gonna tell you there's no one higher than Jesus, Jesus is God.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna use something that you my audience holds in the highest esteem, yeah, right next to God.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: So that's what you would use.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: And then if you go carry that conversation, okay, you're telling me Jesus is above the angels, he's God, he's superior, he holds all creation together.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: He literally has sustained everything and it was created through him.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: And now you're it doesn't make sense to me if I think, hey, is that the same Jesus that got crucified and died?
12:52
SPEAKER_00: So now you have to explain that truth too.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: Parallel truths of like he is, but this is why he had to become human.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: He tasted death for you and me.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: So he gives you a reason for that, so that he could share in the sufferings, that he became made perfect through the through the sufferings.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a theology that we have.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, there's the difference.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh, some of the thought that's come out in some of these conversations are it doesn't make sense that God would uh would uh give up his deity to become human.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: God, he Jesus never gave up his deity, he was fully God, fully man.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Um if I'm gonna go play football with a bunch of six-year-olds, although they're probably stronger and faster than me, don't don't comment.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna go full on on a six-year-old, right?
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm gonna I'm gonna govern, self-govern to what it is.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: So what Jesus, what God did in in humanity is he didn't he didn't abandon his his godliness.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: He added humanity to to God.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: God was not human before that, but he added it to it so that he could experience and go through the sufferings.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: That's chapter two.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: God and Abad.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, two, three weeks in a row?
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, dude.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: You just set me up for that.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: I know I did.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: We didn't talk about that before.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: That's oh please.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: So so you get those theologies that are there.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: The the thing that makes this difficult, and it doesn't make it difficult.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't even, we're just talking, right?
14:16
SPEAKER_01: It's what we do.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: The thing that makes it difficult are the texts that he uses from Old Testament and how they pop in.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: It's he d he the Bretter of Hebrews does what I hate is he'll select a verse, drop it in there as proof for a very important topic.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: It's the thing I hate about preachers these days.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: So the right way to read this would be to stop, go back, look at the context for the way that it's written, flesh it out, and and back up the point.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: But we're not doing that.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I'm just trying to think, I'd really have to go look.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, when Jesus is dropping Old Testament, it's usually pointing to himself as Messiah.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: So there's already that context.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: But I I do I wonder of of the moments that you see that connection of people saying the scriptures say, and some of those moments in scripture of the New Testament we have where there are it's a tool, you know, it's it's it's it's something that was common, I guess.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure about trying to to make your case, I guess, for whatever you're saying.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Because it if you want to pull that thread of like the messenger or you know, whether it was the prophets or the disciples quoting the prophets, you know, there there are there are a lot of instances where we see that.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: And let's be honest, debate like this was a very common practice in this time frame.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: I say this, here's my arguments for angels, again against angels, whatever, and then and for Jesus.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: And he puts it all together in a document.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: So this is a very common thread.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Right?
15:55
SPEAKER_01: So we're teaching Hebrews, so we're teaching the document, right?
15:59
SPEAKER_01: But just remember the main point, Jesus is superior.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: He is, yeah.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: He's better, he's all of those things than then all of it.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: And and I know we're talking a lot about angels, but it continues to grow.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: So more important than angels, more important than Moses is up next.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: He's gonna get him some.
16:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: More important than Joshua, more important than the promised land.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: And in every, and just keep on going, the high priest, he's more important than the high priests because high priests were human and they had sin.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: He did not.
16:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: So they were incomplete, he's complete.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: So in all of these, he's gonna make arguments as to why Jesus is superior or better than all of those different things.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: So although we're spending time talking about angels, which is a weird topic these days, easy to get in the ditch, realize this is just one argument of probably seven more that we're gonna go through.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: He's going somewhere.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And definitely the threat of Jesus as high priest is the big one.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: That's the big one.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: That's the big one because it speaks completely to their entire system of worship being fulfilled in Jesus.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Perfected.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think now and probably Sunday, if we're gonna talk about angels, I'm gonna do the best I can to quickly replace angels with messenger, because I believe what the writer of Hebrews would say is that the message, which is Jesus, is more important than the messenger that carries it.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: That's gonna help us in our modern vernacular to carry maybe the weight of of how you would carry Jesus.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: So you can't, although maybe uh great great, great point that uh David Gusic makes in his, he's like, whenever an angel shows up in scripture, what happens to the people?
17:31
SPEAKER_01: They panic, right?
17:33
SPEAKER_01: So so the writer of Hebrews is like, you know, you don't understand the alignment of angels.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: That's not that's the case.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: Greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: So you have this wrestling with how angels are hold.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: So you know, hold them as messengers versus Jesus, who's the message, the message.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: So when they delivered the Torah, they delivered the law, Jesus is the fulfillment of the law.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: So we're just doing word math and all this.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Do you think in chapter one, and I want to get into a little bit of the the scripture?
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Good.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Um do you do you get the sense that the writer is trying to establish who Jesus is in this first chapter?
18:11
SPEAKER_01: To give a greater understanding?
18:14
SPEAKER_01: I do think so.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: But just like a and I could tell you didn't like the thesis statement or the the research paper, I do think he's making a big proclamation that does carry over the rest of the paper.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: And and to me that's in that's in verse three.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: That he is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: So I I think he is letting you know that he is God.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Period.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: So your question was, is he is he letting you know?
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Is he making a statement?
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Is he saying who Jesus is?
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Like starting to set that up?
18:41
SPEAKER_01: I do think so.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: Then it starts to fall out from there.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: Then I think all of your rest of your information starts to ferret out from there.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: But if you were just to take and write it down, the top thing you can remember from all these weeks in the study is that Jesus is superior, Jesus is God.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Let's ask a press practical question.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: If I set my mind on who Jesus is, how should I approach that?
19:05
SPEAKER_00: Or how does that help me walk out my faith or shape shape my view?
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Like what what practically are the things that fall into place with that?
19:18
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that we truly will land in a place where like, okay, cool, that's who Jesus is.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: I think if anything, this will show us that we might spend the rest of our life wrestling with some of these concepts and ideas.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: And is that how does that affect our faith?
19:36
SPEAKER_00: In good way, bad way?
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it informs it because Jesus if Jesus is gonna be the author and finisher, if he's gonna be the one that that was the fulfillment of the law, then you have to I'm always so practical, I want to hear what's your example.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't think about Jesus and how does he solve that.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Hebrews is written yes as a proof to all those things, but he's also written as an encouragement to not lose the faith.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: So if they're struggling and Jesus is that answer, so then in the message of Christ, that which is the revealing of God to us, somewhere in his teachings, somewhere in the way that he lives, somewhere in these messages, we're gonna find a greater way for us to live.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Greater.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: Greater, greater way, greater way, Jesus greater.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or a better or superior way.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Hebrews as well, or Hebrews chapter two.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Chapter two.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: No, I did not know that.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: It's called Something Better.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Something better.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: That was our I I feel like that was our Christmas series, maybe one year.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay, are you gonna sing it right now?
20:43
SPEAKER_00: No.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: I still remember it though.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: All right.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that that yeah.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: I just thought that'd be a fun fact.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, good.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Can people find it?
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh it can be yours on Apple Podcasts.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: No, it's out there.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, good, all right.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: It's out there.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh Apple Podcast.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: Long ago, God spoke many times in many ways to our ancestors.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Let's just take the first four verses.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: Which is the main threat, okay.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: The meat, right?
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so he spoke through ancestors through the prophets.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: Now he's spoken through his son.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: God promised everything to the son as an inheritance.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Through the sun, he created the universe.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh, the sun radiates God's own glory, expresses the very character of God, and sustains everything by the power of his command.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then he but then the rest is the is the common, you just can't stop there.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: When he had made purification for sins.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: So that's the gospel message.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: When he died on the cross, he sat down at the right hand of majesty on high, having become as much and here and here's his opening statement that he's going to start to prove having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: So first statement is so in doing that, now he's be in that act, re establishing.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Conquering death is has become superior.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: So if you go back to one, so long ago God spoke and it speaks to your point about understanding angels as messengers.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: So is he saying to you, does it make sense to you that he's saying, Hey, God has spoken through messengers, through prophets, even through the creation of the world, God speaks.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Jesus is actually the one that he created that through and who sustains all that.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: But I'm telling you, as great as the messages from previous messengers, Jesus is the word that brings the ultimate message.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, just if you just to the like the way the sentence unfolds.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: So in the past, he's talked to us in various ways through the prophets.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: But in these days, he's spoken to us by a son or the son, whom he appointed heir of all things.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: So just so you know, he sent the one, heir of all things, through whom he also created all the worlds.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the one that's he's got some credibility there.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: He's the one that created all the worlds.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: He's you know, and he's reflection of God's glory, um, and he is the exact imprint of God's being.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: And he sustains all things by the powerful word.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so like it's a it's a huge statement to say that and so he showed up.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: We had prophets.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: In a second, you're gonna talk about angels.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: We had pro all these people that used to speak in various ways, but then he showed up.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: The one, the one that created, the one that did all the things and has inherited all of it.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: He showed up.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And uh and when he finished when he accomplished what he was here to do, that's that made purification for sins, he sat down at the red hand of the majesty on high.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: And um, and then and then he goes into his first argument, which is this appeared to the angels, messengers.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Does that okay, so that's that's big.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: Those are big ideas, right?
23:49
SPEAKER_00: What does that do to your faith, if anything?
23:53
SPEAKER_00: Just I mean just taking a moment thinking, okay, God I want to I want to know you, help me see you more clearly.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: You could you could spend the whole day it's been a long time just sitting with these things.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: And then does that does that do anything to help shape your heart or help kind of fire up your faith?
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Or do you struggle with things like that of just like I don't know what to do with this?
24:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: I d I don't I don't struggle with it, but I wouldn't say necessarily it what it what it is is it gives me another thing to say, hey, the writer of Hebrews said this is this is the credibility you have for Jesus.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: So when we study and read through the gospels and we read the Sermon on the Mount and you read those different things, uh then we can take what he says on on account.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Questions that came out that you're gonna get in your Bible study tonight.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: So what do you mean he said he was there, he created the worlds?
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Where does it say that?
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And we talked about in Genesis, let us create mankind in our own image, like the Godhead that was there doesn't specifically spell it out.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: But if you're a Jewish person, you have a hard time explaining why there's a plurality in that very first thing in in in Genesis.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: So um, so you see some of this is there, that understanding, that teaching.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: I think that uh you're you're getting me to talk about in theory, uh, doesn't necessarily fire me up.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: It's just more, it's just more food for thought.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Right?
25:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I believe all these things about Jesus and I hold his teachings that way.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: It's just trying to get them to make sense in my life or practical, try to wrestle them into practical nature.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: The reason, but are you right now?
25:25
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna end that?
25:26
SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, yeah.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: The thing that's weird, and I think what got us in trouble in our Bible study this morning got me in trouble, is what what happens in verse 4.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: So he makes all those huge, soaring statements.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Then he turns and he starts talking about angels.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: For us, we're like, because we don't there are people that love thinking and talking about angels all the time, but it's the first of his arguments.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: This doesn't mean a whole lot to us, but it meant a whole lot to them.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna get a whole two chapters on angels.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: And you know, we're just like, man, that sounds really strange and weird.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: I have people that talk about angels and people that have questions about those different things, but why in the world would it become the main crux of his argument?
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Because it meant something to them.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think So you just have to study it in the way that they would have.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: But I think you made the point because the angels were understood as the messengers.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: And he's saying Jesus was the ultimate word.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: So verse 14, so all everything, everything from verse five after the statement we just read, all the way to 13, it's either Old Testament scripture or a transitional phrase to link the Old Testament scripture.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: You got Psalm 2, Deuteronomy 32, Psalm 45, Psalm 102.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: 2 Samuel 7, 1 Chronicles 17, Psalm 104, Psalm 45.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: It's a grab bag.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: Psalm 102.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: It's it's all there, right?
26:50
SPEAKER_01: So like you could get bogged down in all of that because you don't have the context.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: But but then you get the final statement, which I think is helpful to put angels in the right perspective.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: He says, Are not all angels spirits in the divine service sent to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?
27:04
SPEAKER_01: The way I memorized back then in the day is angels are ministering spirits sent to serve those who are to inherit salvation.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: They're not sent to serve themselves, they're sent to serve those who are to inherit salvation.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: So we we have that somewhere backwards.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: We think angels are just doing whatever it is that they want to do, but their purpose is to serve those who are um serve believers.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: All right.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: Now, a little interesting thought in all of this, because he's gonna bring it up in chapter two.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: When God in Genesis, when God puts humankind in the garden, he gives them a command.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: And what's the command?
27:42
SPEAKER_01: Do you off the top of your head?
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Say that again.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: When God sets when God sets mankind in the garden, he gives us a command and he gives us dominion.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: Dominion over what?
27:51
SPEAKER_01: Creation.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: The earth.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: So he does not give angels dominion over this earth, he gives us dominion.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: And then the next question is how's that working out for us?
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Terribly.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Right?
28:01
SPEAKER_01: It did not go well.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: It did not go well, and it's still not going well.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: So so this when he when he gets into this um idea of the responsibility of humankind versus angels, this world is our responsibility.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: So the so Christ coming and re-establishing that connection puts us back into a place to where things are getting ordered correctly.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: Dude, yes.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: I got that's exciting.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: I just because it's the deeper layer of what I think he's trying to tell us is that Christ is not only the word that he is God, he is gonna be our great high priest.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: He's he's restoring all of humanity and all of creation.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: All of the orders coming back online.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: Like it's goes so much deeper than we realize.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: It'll be out on YouTube.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And I'll listen to this in the case.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: We can tran I hit the transcribe button.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: But I think what happened at Genesis 3 also is greater than we realized because the bonds between not only man and God were broken, but also between man and woman or man and man, or humanity, and also between man and creation.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: All of those things were were broken and shattered at that time.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Jesus coming back as fulfillment of all this and restoration is so much more than, okay, cool, I believe, so I'm gonna go to heaven one day.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: It is so much greater than that.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: It is the restoration of humanity, of creation, of or the redeeming, restoration, you any of our words you want.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: I I love it.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's it is exactly what we talk about, greater story.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: And in and realizing that.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: And I I do think with the angel thing, you know, we the little uh they wouldn't have thought the little Cupid with the arrow on the Valentine's.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: What's the idea for an angel?
29:54
SPEAKER_00: That was not so I we have you have to filter yourself with okay, what what does the text say about who angels are, not what I have been led to believe they are.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and we would get we would get so bogged down in this text trying to figure out what what the thing we wouldn't understand is he's supporting an argument that they would have held that we don't really even care about.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: So like it'd be so easy to get tracked down into some of these things about angels when really the point he's trying to make is the message is more important than the messenger.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: So rack and stack those things to where they need to be.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And then you get into chapter two, and oh, God, the one that we're making this big proclamation about, just needs you to know that for a period of time he was made lower than the angels.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: But uh this this there's a lot about this topic that you just brought up that uh that is still rolling in my head.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: If he's the one that's gonna set things back in order, then he had to be willing, not to get out of order, because I'm not ever gonna say that, but he had to be willing to take on flesh so that he could restore order.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: So that's the lower then.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: So you think of what was the what was the real reason for angels?
30:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay, back into this conversation that I'm hating more than anything ever.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: What was the real reason for angels was here to support Adam and Eve and the whole how things were unfolding.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: When order got thrown off, there's a brokenness to all that.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: And a little bit in chapter two, he's gonna talk about the one who has the power of death, which is which is the devil, is what he says.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: But Christ has restored that connection, and now that we're restored back, we're we're not held captive to death.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: The natural death, which is a brokenness, right, in in the physical body, but but there's there's no with Christ, it's from life to life.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: So, so there's a there's this a what it is, is it's the reordering or the recalibration, if you will, of angels and their place and their role in creation.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's probably the best way to put those chapters one.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, it makes sense about death because Satan being the fallen angel, and that was all out of order and and became a a bigger mess than than they could have realized at the time.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: But we're all subject to that.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: And he's fixing it all.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: And he has fixed it all.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: He's fixed it all.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Has fixed it all.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: Fixed it all.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: And we're given the opportunity, just like last week, as we talked about in uh, I don't know, you don't remember what we were talking about, Peter, second Peter, yeah.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: That we have an opportunity to participate in the divine nature.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: That's right, right?
32:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, God has given us everything that we need for life, a full life, and for righteousness.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: He's given it to us.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: Now we participate in that by by truly knowing by truly knowing God.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: That's this text.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: That's this research paper lived out.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: Man, if he would have just had a greeting on here, just a greeting and a content.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: This is Clement of Rome.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: What's up?
32:35
SPEAKER_00: That guy.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: And then you wouldn't call this a research paper, it'd be a letter.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: All it would need is one sentence.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: But let's talk about two.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: He gets straight into a warning.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh boy.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, say therefore.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh Mark says so.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Therefore.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: So uh in light of everything he I just established in chapter one, we must listen very carefully to the truth we have heard, or we may drift away from it.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: Drifting away.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about that.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I don't want to talk about that.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Because every sermon I've listened to spends 30 minutes talking about the drift.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a sailing analogy.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: I'll give it all to you in a minute.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Like I'll save you a lot of listening to stuff.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: It's a sailing analogy.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: Make it a fishing analogy.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: It's a slow deviation of from the thing.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: So this is not a crash and burn and walk away.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: It is today, I'm on fire.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: Tomorrow, a little bit less, two years from now, you're way off course because you just didn't stay connected or stay focused.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: That's the drifting away.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: Not a rejection, but a we can talk about a lot of cool sailing nautical terms and all those things.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I like it's it's melted my brain.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: They all be and I you know what I think it is?
33:47
SPEAKER_01: I think it's because they don't want to get into the deep matters of what Hebrews writing around.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: So they find something they're like, ooh, drift.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about drifting.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: We can talk about that.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: So I'm a drift for a long period of time because I don't want to get into the other parts of this.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: All right.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me ask you a very practical question.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: Ask me a practical question.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: What what are the what are the things that quietly pull us away from Jesus?
34:04
SPEAKER_00: What are those things?
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Let's not talk about what it is.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: We've we've established that.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: But what are the things that do that?
34:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I think it all drift.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Simple choices in life that deviate us, the people that you surround yourself with, um, the lack of self-control, you know, to today it's a today it's uh um it's a it's drinking a sweet tea, tomorrow it's a full-on honey bun, right?
34:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so I you know, I so it's and that's not and that's not particularly, but that's taking care, think about the body as being a temple and the ability to live life in a full life.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's the small decisions that get us right off course.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, probably the largest would be the people that we surround ourselves with, not being attentive to, you know, what we would say here at the church, gather, group, give, serve.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh, those aren't there's not a magical pill to those things.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: That's not a magical pill.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: Those it's a process.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: The early church, they got together to study apostle teachings, they grouped together, which is where they supported one another in the fellowship.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: They they they gave, they helped meet the needs of other people, which which keeps your might, you're always looking, you're searching, and you also understand that resource doesn't just belong to you, you're gonna help someone else.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Then they served.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: They did things that were necessary for other people.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Those things in the early church really helped to fashion them.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: So just not doing those things, choosing to not do those things.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a guy that beats you up for not going to church, but you you choose to not go today, you choose not to go, then you get to the national average, which is like 1.2 times a month for a solid believer.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: Who's the person going 0.2 times a month?
35:35
SPEAKER_01: How do you even do that?
35:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: That means you're mixing in one.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: That's a they're not doing the yeah, you got it.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: It's math.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: That's preacher math.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: That sounds like uh survey listening.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: That sounds like survey math to me.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Survey math.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: That's not even preacher math.
35:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: So drift.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: In light too, of um, I think he's given you a pretty amazing truth to anchor upon, and then realize if you live in a way that you don't believe this is true, or you don't aren't putting in the time and maybe thought practice or heart practice of actually trying to flesh this out in a way you live out your faith, then it it would lead to these things of, well, ah, I don't know, it's not that important to me, or I don't know what to do with it, so I'm not really gonna think about it.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I thought when Jesus is in his proper place, it it does give us the ability to to actually live out the things that we can't do on our own and and elevating him to that lordship in our life to where he brings us into a whole new place, which is the point.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, so I let let's let's nuance the drift, because uh like I said, I've heard twelve sermons on it.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: I I think the drift for them would have been the drift back to the system.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay?
36:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: So not just what we think of as the drift as to uh to the to the life of whatever sin.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sort of life of just comfort or like uh the things that we think we need.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this would have been a a drift back to the system because because what he says is he says, therefore must pay greater attention to what we've heard so that we do not drift.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: For if the message declared through the angels, so if the messengers gave us, and and what he's talking about is the Torah, the law, the system of our faith.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: If if if it was proved valid and every transgression or disobedience received a just penalty, if the law required sacrifice and there was sin and there was all that brokenness, how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?
37:46
SPEAKER_01: That's talking about Jesus.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: So be careful not to drift back into thinking you're going to go back into this system of law that requires a sacrifice when the greatest sacrifice was given.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: How great a sacrifice was.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: So messengers delivering the message of the, of the, of the Torah that's now fulfilled in Jesus, don't drift back into a system that pales in comparison to the actual sacrifice that came and did that for us.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: Because then he because then the rest of that um uh first opening statement is it was declared at first through the Lord, and it was confirmed through those of us, those by, excuse me, confirmed for us by those who heard him, while God added to his testimony signs and wonders and various miracles and by the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: So he's like, that's the gospel message.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: Don't go looking for another sacrifice, don't drift back into that system that we always were a part of when the fulfillment of that system is here.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's the drift.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that that's a great point.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: And that that changes the a message about us drifting away into whatever we deem worthy of our time versus very different.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: What we do in our lives that that equals righteousness.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: I've done this so that I can be worthy of what God did for me.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: All all points back to Jesus.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, points back to Jesus.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: Um so he's five on, he's gonna establish humanity for Jesus and why that had to be done, or why that matters, or how him doing that This is the challenge to teach, but I'll tell you what I think I'm gonna do on Sunday is rather not not not rather than get lost in the actual words of the text, which we're we're here to study the text, but this is the gospel message.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: So if he just said don't accept the system over the savior, now he's gonna tell you what the purpose was.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: He became flesh.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: So for a period of time he was lower than back in relationship to the angels, that's the confusing part for everybody.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: He was made lower than until he was crowned.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: So when he when he took that place, now he's superior.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: So all of these verses have to do with the gospel message.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: It was but but but he oh man, there's a beautiful piece.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: He gives you the reason, one of the reasons.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Look at verse 10, chapter 2.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: It was fitting that God, for whom and through whom all things exist, you're just tagging that in there.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: That's a humble brag, in bringing many children uh in bringing many children to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Here's why.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: For the one who sanctifies and those who are sanctified, who are sanctified all have one father for this reason, Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: That's huge.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: If you if you back back up to verse nine, it's that he might taste death for everyone so that he could experience pain, suffering.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when we say that he's, and I think the verse is in here, I don't know where it is, he's been tested on all fronts and yet was without sin.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Um so if if if there was no Jesus, God would be God and he would not be acquainted with human sin.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: But because Jesus allowed himself to to walk among us, he when we pray, he knows, he feels, he understands.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: He's he walked that road with us.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
41:15
SPEAKER_01: So he gives us an insight for why that gospel message carried out the way that it did.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 18.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: Since he himself has gone through suffering and testing, he is able to help us when we are being tested.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: He understands us.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: Huge beautiful takeaway, too, is uh 12, 11, he's not ashamed to call us his brothers and sisters.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: And yet sometimes we're ashamed to s to call him, right?
41:42
SPEAKER_01: To to say Jesus is the Lord of my life.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: But he's he's like and really think about that at our worst place in all this world, he's like, No, that's mine.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: We gotta wrestle with that.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that God loves us that much that he's willing to to do that.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: And you see it just recently we're talking about the woman caught in adultery.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, that was the whole point of that message, is she's mine.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm not ashamed of this.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got this one.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Not ashamed of this.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: She's mine.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm not ashamed of what you think about me, not ashamed of what the religious system is thinking that I'm associating with her.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm here to say she is mine and she is loved.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's life-changing truth for all of us.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: It is.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: In a research paper.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean it it really is.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: I I mean the the the the details are the problem.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: I don't struggle with them.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: I I just there's not time to go back and back up each and every one of those different quotes.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: The statements are are great.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just gosh man, just get get into this verse 14 through through sixteen.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: Since therefore the children share uh flesh and blood, he himself likewise shared the same things, so that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is the devil.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by the fear of death.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: There's a when you're connected to God, there is there is no death.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: There's a death of a physical body, but there is life eternal, right?
43:07
SPEAKER_01: With with the one who created us for purpose, with purpose, on purpose.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: So you get to see all of this come together.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: And then verse 16 is dropped in there, just the strangest thing to just close out that loop for his teacher for the research paper.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: In case you're wondering about it, he didn't come here to help angels, but the descendants of Abraham.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: He didn't come here for the angels, guys.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: He came here for humanity.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: So he's putting, he's just he's reordering.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: I I like oh, if I'm if you're gonna ask me what I got from this whole takeaway, it's it's the awareness and maybe the thread that needs to run through this is that the author of Hebrews is is painting Jesus as the one that is is setting all things right.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: The broken structure here, the broken structure there.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: Next week we're gonna talk about Moses being the mediator.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: Boy, they the the Jewish nation held Moses in such a high regard.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: And he says, You Moses was awesome.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: He ain't even pale compared pales in comparison to Jesus, right?
44:02
SPEAKER_01: So the the guy he's gonna tackle that next week.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: So let's get into that.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: It's the same idea as an an angel, maybe, of thinking like elevation of someone else other than God.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: And and keep going down the down the line of angels, Moses, these guys.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: Don't you think that verse 14 makes a way more sense of connection from the thread we were talking about earlier about all of all of creation, humanity, and relationship was broken.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: And now that's why that's why the devil had the power over death, and Jesus has taken that back.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: And that's why he had to share flesh and blood with us.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: He had to.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: Because no one else could do it.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: And then as he gets into the high priest argument later and understanding they had to make sacrifices all the time.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus made it once for all time.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I and I think uh the idea that the has the power of death that is the devil, I I I believe that's an allegory too, because I don't if the devil was the first one to be disobedient and to be set apart, it's not like he's ruling over hell or ruling over death, but the first child of, right?
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And in that whole world.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: So that is death.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: That's separation from God.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: So that understanding of of disobedience, I think, stands as a whole as opposed to the devil.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: Like a singular person.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: I got the power, bruh.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh, let's see that.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: Was that your devil voice?
45:25
SPEAKER_01: That was my devil voice, yeah.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it's it's way different than that.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: But but I think the understanding.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: When you put like some sound effects on that when you say that can you it's can you gotta add some some more guttural to that?
45:34
SPEAKER_01: But I think the thing is that it's it's the it's the re-establishment back to life.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Does Does the fear of death does that show up in our life more than just being afraid to die?
45:50
SPEAKER_00: That's a trick question.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: Ask me again.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: Does the fear of death or living in fear of death is that more than just being afraid to die?
45:58
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that has I think that has to be nuanced.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: I think we all probably have a fear of the unknown.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: It's not a road any of us have walked.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: Um that well, I don't know, there's some people that have that's come back.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh, but it's I think it's more fear of the unknown for a believer.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh and naturally it's gonna be uh based on your knowledge of a believer.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: I've I've been with people that have served God their whole lives and they they're ready, they're ready to go because they have such a grounded faith that they believe that what's next is gonna be beautiful and a fulfillment of and and exiting this broken world.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: So I I I think there are many that that do not fear death.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it would not surprise me, and I'm sure I'm I when that day comes for me, whenever it comes, I don't know that I'll be excited about it.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh because because uh the death in the natural body means, you know, uh not proximity to my loved ones for the time being.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I know it it means to be in the in the presence of Christ, so that's the fullness.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: So we're not worried about those people who've gone on the other side, they're good.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: But in those closing moments, there there could be fear there.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: I I agree with that.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why scripture like this is so hugely important because it really is what informs us to uh have faith in those moments and and to anchor ourselves above beyond something that we can control because we cannot control any of this.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh the the flip side of uh I don't know if it's a flip side, but it's a compliment too when he says he sustains everything here.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: Hebrews 11 will tell us he actually created everything too.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: So those that's who Jesus truly is.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: So understanding that gives us such a bigger picture and a bigger view and allows our faith to grow too.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
47:42
unknown: Yeah.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: Which I think things like I'm excited about this study because even if even if we don't land in a place that's like, okay, cool.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: I completely understand that and I feel great about that.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: And here's my three takeaways.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: It does uh give you the ability to truly look at who Jesus is and what you're putting your faith into and have a bigger view.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think anytime our minds are are pushed beyond our own limits and to see like, okay, there's something greater out there, something better.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: We we use those taglines.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: I know churches for a million years have used those things.
48:19
SPEAKER_00: So they can become cliche, but they really are true too.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: This whole point, Jesus is better.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: All the things that you thought were good that helped you worship God, actually, Jesus is the fulfillment, and he's actually better.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: So a case in point, this Sunday morning we'll receive communion.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: And that would have you just roll back into the connections for a Jewish person, would have been Passover.
48:40
SPEAKER_01: And they would have been remembering a an a lamb that was died, then they put the blood on the thing.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, when we sit down and we remember communion, we're not gonna remember a lamb.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna remember Jesus who took the bread and said, This is my body which is broken for you.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: This is my blood which is shed for you.
48:54
SPEAKER_01: He's superior to the Passover lamb that was symbolic in Exodus of the ultimate Passover lamb that would come.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna receive communion to the uh and remember the one that's superior to that message of Passover.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: It's good, he's going to be the fulfillment of, he's going to be the sacrifice of.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: So Jesus did all of that for us.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: That that's gonna be a great way to end Sunday morning because it brings together the main point for all of it.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: Right.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: I think.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: I love that you had notes today.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: I know I don't have notes.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: You need you to know what this is?
49:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh I I've I've struggled so much with Hebrews and I've been writing so much stuff in my Bible that I got to the place where I couldn't read the actual scripture.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: So I I printed, I printed the text and I highlighted the main the things, and then I I wrote the trist the text beside it so I would have it.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: It's been easier for me to study.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: Then I'll back into my Bible to be able to do it.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: So it's notes, but it's not notes.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: It's the it's the actual scripture.
49:51
SPEAKER_01: So you notice I haven't opened my Bible.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: But I appreciate you saying that because um people might be like, what's right?
49:55
SPEAKER_01: What's he reading from?
49:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is this is was easier for me to do it this way because I don't teach this way.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't teach this way.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna it's gonna be a fun series.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Could be an episode.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Are you excited?
50:08
SPEAKER_01: We'll get there.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: I I am now more excited.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm more excited after this podcast than I was after my my Bible study this morning.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: All right, so we're doing the Lord's work here on 100%, maybe, maybe.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, but here's uh here's a uh we may not follow up with this, but here's a thought.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd love to hear from you guys if about this series.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: So email me, message me.
50:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh you can find me on the threads there.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: I would I'd love to hear takeaways about Hebrews for you guys, and hopefully this is helpful.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: And and one more thing baptism's coming up.
50:40
SPEAKER_01: Baptism is in just in two Sundays.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh and if you're and this is a really cool thing.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of people that travel that are watch us on online all over this nation that will make trips here for that weekend, and then you pray the weather's good.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: But if you've not been baptized, come on.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's fantastic.
50:57
SPEAKER_01: It's an a it's a great way church gets together on the beach.
51:00
SPEAKER_01: There's hundreds of people that'll be there.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we've already got like 40 people signed up to be baptized.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm excited, man.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: Cannot wait for Sunday.
51:08
SPEAKER_00: Hope you guys could join us for week one of Hebrews.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a great time.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: Love y'all.
51:14
SPEAKER_00: See ya.