Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Romance Scams: SMNTY Gets Catfished

Transcript

Romance Scams: SMNTY Gets Catfished · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Danny and Samantha and welcome to Steph.
0:07
Speaker 1: I never told your protection of iHeart Radio. So to
0:18
Speaker 1: start this one, Samantha, I have a couple of questions
0:21
Speaker 1: for you. One. In your time online dating, do you
0:26
Speaker 1: feel like you came across a lot of fake profiles
0:29
Speaker 1: or any kind of romantic scams. I definitely came across
0:33
Speaker 1: fake profiles, a few of them. Um, And because of
0:36
Speaker 1: that and just in general of my mistrust. If they
0:38
Speaker 1: were too good looking, I assumed it was fake and
0:41
Speaker 1: moved on. If they didn't have a lot of information,
0:44
Speaker 1: I assumed they were fake and moved on. Or or
0:47
Speaker 1: there's some reasonly there trying to be sneaky, sneaky and
0:52
Speaker 1: cheating and they don't want their partner to see them,
0:55
Speaker 1: or I've seen a lot of that. They're being real
0:57
Speaker 1: trickster I've had of If they're also not showing their face,
1:03
Speaker 1: that was a big nose as well. So I assume
1:06
Speaker 1: most of those were some type of lie, yeah or falsehood.
1:13
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Yeah, that's interesting. We're going to come back
1:16
Speaker 1: to that and talk about that in this episode. Also,
1:19
Speaker 1: like when you imagine someone who is the target of
1:21
Speaker 1: a romance scam. Who is the stereotypical victim in your mind? Well,
1:27
Speaker 1: it goes back and forth, because sometimes I've definitely seen
1:30
Speaker 1: the hopeless woman duped, so a woman who has left
1:34
Speaker 1: a lot of money being like somehow taken advantage of.
1:37
Speaker 1: So I've seen I've thought of that. But then also lately,
1:39
Speaker 1: like the fishing, like a catfishing that I've seen, it
1:43
Speaker 1: looks like it goes off to a lot of what
1:46
Speaker 1: I would say, nerdy men, almost in cell level men.
1:52
Speaker 1: I've seen that as well. So it's like overly beautiful
1:54
Speaker 1: women and their men are a little more likely to
1:58
Speaker 1: believe that, right, Yeah, that's interesting. So I feel like
2:04
Speaker 1: because today we're talking about romance scams and it is
2:07
Speaker 1: a popular topic of conversation right now, and I'm pretty
2:09
Speaker 1: sure there's a couple of shows on Netflix that are
2:11
Speaker 1: coming out about it specifically, And I think that our
2:15
Speaker 1: understanding of who I don't even want to say the
2:20
Speaker 1: stereotypical victim is because it's it's more like it can
2:22
Speaker 1: happen to anybody. But I feel like for a long
2:24
Speaker 1: time my understanding was it was older usually women who
2:30
Speaker 1: their husband had died and they didn't understand the internet
2:34
Speaker 1: very well. Maybe we're very trusting, but also I feel
2:39
Speaker 1: like I've seen a lot of the almost like I
2:45
Speaker 1: hate to say this, but like the show is kind
2:47
Speaker 1: of painting as in this person and usually in my case,
2:51
Speaker 1: woman is pathetic and she's so like her self esteem
2:55
Speaker 1: is so low, and it's this guy reaching out to
2:59
Speaker 1: her and and it's kind of played off as a
3:01
Speaker 1: joke that she believed it right and tears those episodes
3:06
Speaker 1: of that or usually that becomes like death somehow, or
3:09
Speaker 1: they get like, yeah, I don't want like an a
3:12
Speaker 1: sexual assault thing happens of some sort or like among
3:16
Speaker 1: those I've seen that, So that's a little darker twist.
3:19
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of dark things apparently, you know,
3:22
Speaker 1: when it comes to like elderly people and getting scammed,
3:24
Speaker 1: I do see it being older women, but you leave
3:26
Speaker 1: something there with religion or or real estate, not necessarily romance.
3:31
Speaker 1: And we might have come back to that because that's
3:32
Speaker 1: what I've seen a lot of questions and phone scams. Yeah,
3:36
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I mean, there's so much, so much to
3:39
Speaker 1: unpack here. I think it's interesting though that like as
3:42
Speaker 1: this has become we've learned more about it. I can
3:45
Speaker 1: think of several different versions I've seen of this playing
3:49
Speaker 1: out in our popular media. So as I said, it
3:52
Speaker 1: can't happen anybody. As we move into February, the month
3:56
Speaker 1: of love or and what did you call it, Samantha
3:58
Speaker 1: anti love? Were ant I Valentine? Essentially? Yea, if you
4:03
Speaker 1: want to celebrate it. I've had some good ones. Yeah, yeah,
4:07
Speaker 1: we're kind of a we do a darker take on
4:09
Speaker 1: it over here, Yeah, because we wanted to take this
4:13
Speaker 1: this look at not so happy aspect of love as
4:17
Speaker 1: is our tradition, and that being romance scams. And yes,
4:21
Speaker 1: as I said, they have been in the news a
4:23
Speaker 1: lot lately, um, and there is a lot of information
4:26
Speaker 1: out there about them about how to recognize them and
4:29
Speaker 1: prevent them specifically, and I really admit they are a
4:32
Speaker 1: bigger problem then I thought they were right, you know
4:36
Speaker 1: what I've seen recently, however, I've seen more of like
4:39
Speaker 1: when I say romance scams, maybe like just trickery in
4:43
Speaker 1: my head. So it's a little different. Is when a
4:46
Speaker 1: partner is trying to see their partner will cheat, and
4:49
Speaker 1: it's typically women who vaging out to other women to
4:53
Speaker 1: ask to try to start something with their man in
4:56
Speaker 1: these general relationships, and I've seen a lot more of that.
4:59
Speaker 1: Like I've seen a few where the men asked the men,
5:01
Speaker 1: but it's typically women have been asking women. So I
5:04
Speaker 1: don't know if this is like an actual thing or
5:07
Speaker 1: they're just like I somehow got on it on the
5:09
Speaker 1: social media side of it and saw a lot more.
5:12
Speaker 1: I know there's a popular women who are investigators who
5:14
Speaker 1: have done this, and typically there have been several moments
5:17
Speaker 1: where that woman who has hired this other woman, that
5:19
Speaker 1: woman gets mad at the person they hired works. That's
5:23
Speaker 1: a whole different conversation. But that recently I did not
5:28
Speaker 1: know about. That interesting because I know, like again going
5:32
Speaker 1: back to stereotypes, and I think there were I'm not
5:34
Speaker 1: sure what the numbers are now, but last time I
5:36
Speaker 1: looked into this, men, like we talked about cyberstalking, are
5:40
Speaker 1: much more likely to try to investigate that their woman
5:44
Speaker 1: is assumed they're cheating. Right, I would like to revisit that.
5:48
Speaker 1: That is interesting, okay, Right, And I have seen where
5:53
Speaker 1: the men, if they've been rejected on a site, tries
5:57
Speaker 1: to go back and find that woman as a different person,
5:59
Speaker 1: so cat fishing them, but it's stalking them and trying
6:03
Speaker 1: to get a second chance or try to find out
6:05
Speaker 1: if they're dating other people, like why they wake up
6:07
Speaker 1: with them or something like that. So it's been really
6:11
Speaker 1: and that one's like a little more stalker ish. So
6:15
Speaker 1: I've never experienced that to my knowledge. Um, yeah, no, definitely,
6:20
Speaker 1: cause I'm very picky about who all engaged with online.
6:23
Speaker 1: So I've never experienced that online. But I have experienced
6:26
Speaker 1: I know, I've told the story million times when it
6:27
Speaker 1: just sticks out with me of this guy at a
6:30
Speaker 1: club back when I went to the club, I told him, like,
6:34
Speaker 1: I flat out if we you know, we try so
6:38
Speaker 1: many different strategies as women to reject man that won't
6:43
Speaker 1: make them madden, and you know there's so much victim
6:45
Speaker 1: blaming in it. So one time I did. I just
6:47
Speaker 1: flat out told this guy, I know, because I didn't
6:49
Speaker 1: want him to. I tried to do it in a
6:51
Speaker 1: nice way, but I said, like, no, I'm not interested,
6:55
Speaker 1: and he shouted in my face it's because I'm not
6:57
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt, isn't It feels like he's the type of
7:03
Speaker 1: guy who online is probably trying that. Now it's got
7:07
Speaker 1: like a Brad Pitt esque I got that weird online
7:11
Speaker 1: thing where a dude messaged me, but his message wasn't like,
7:16
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily a question. And this is the first communication
7:19
Speaker 1: I've ever had from him, And he immediately says, I
7:21
Speaker 1: would like to go out with you, but I know
7:23
Speaker 1: women like you don't date light men like me, and
7:26
Speaker 1: you only want the perfect white guys. So I don't
7:27
Speaker 1: even know what I'm trying. That was this opener, and
7:30
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, well you seem angry, so I don't.
7:33
Speaker 1: There's nothing about this is redeeming. I don't know what
7:35
Speaker 1: you wanted. Yes, now I'm definitely ignoring you. Right. That
7:40
Speaker 1: feels like like one of the worst examples I've ever
7:45
Speaker 1: heard of somebody trying to prepare themselves for rejection but
7:50
Speaker 1: hoping that you might be like, No, I would never
7:53
Speaker 1: I'm not like those other girls. Is terrible. Is that
7:58
Speaker 1: does that work? I get it? It does that. Like
8:00
Speaker 1: I really wish I could have asked the dude, but
8:02
Speaker 1: I just didn't even want to, like for you, because
8:06
Speaker 1: why would you do this? What's self perspecting woman would
8:09
Speaker 1: actually like respond to this? Right? Well, that's what is
8:14
Speaker 1: that called. There's a whole joke about it. What we
8:17
Speaker 1: do in the shadow then the TV show where it's
8:20
Speaker 1: like they have a fun word for it, but it's
8:22
Speaker 1: like nagging. So basically like go and go up to
8:27
Speaker 1: this woman. Women love it when you go up and
8:30
Speaker 1: here mean to them and she'll be so attracted. But
8:34
Speaker 1: he was amazing himself, so I don't like, I don't
8:37
Speaker 1: think it's negging necessarily because it's typically like, oh, yeah,
8:40
Speaker 1: I bet you're you're kind of cute, but you're not
8:42
Speaker 1: execute as her like that level. But like he did
8:46
Speaker 1: not do that. It just he was like, you're not
8:48
Speaker 1: going to choose me because I'm not wide enough for you.
8:50
Speaker 1: And I was like, what is happening? Yeah, yeah, that's
8:54
Speaker 1: an interesting and terrible I want to say his strategy,
8:56
Speaker 1: but I do. I feel like he thought like maybe
8:59
Speaker 1: you would want to make him feel better and also
9:02
Speaker 1: want to prove to him. No, I'm not saying it's
9:07
Speaker 1: a good strategy. I'm just that's what he was doing. Yeah,
9:11
Speaker 1: there's so many things to the like online dating and
9:15
Speaker 1: romance and everything that it's flipped as wild. This world
9:18
Speaker 1: is wild. It is, it is, and it's unfortunate that
9:21
Speaker 1: we have to look out for these things like romance
9:23
Speaker 1: scams because I do want to put it in here.
9:26
Speaker 1: As we've already discussed in this there are a lot
9:28
Speaker 1: of jokes about romance scams, but they've left people heartbroken
9:31
Speaker 1: and robbed, and when you think about it, it's it's
9:35
Speaker 1: pretty mean. Like it's mean. And we've talked about grooming
9:39
Speaker 1: on social media and past episodes and this that's highly
9:42
Speaker 1: related to what we're talking about. It's also related to
9:45
Speaker 1: what we talked about in cybers talking. So yeah, just
9:49
Speaker 1: to put that out there that there are people who
9:52
Speaker 1: have suffered from these things that we're talking about. Let's
10:09
Speaker 1: start with a definition because we love that from the
10:12
Speaker 1: FBI's website. Quote, Romance scams occur when a criminal adopts
10:15
Speaker 1: a fake online identity to gain a victim's affection and trust.
10:20
Speaker 1: The scammer then uses the illusion of a romantic or
10:23
Speaker 1: close relationship to manipulate indoor still from the victim, and
10:28
Speaker 1: the FBI goes on to specify that the people behind
10:31
Speaker 1: romance scams are often experts, they're often con artist um,
10:35
Speaker 1: and they frequently operate on dating apps and social media.
10:38
Speaker 1: The con artist in question will work to endear themselves
10:41
Speaker 1: to the target by building trust with conversation and interaction
10:45
Speaker 1: with promises of meeting in person and perhaps marriage promises
10:49
Speaker 1: that notably never come to fruition. UH. They utilize fake
10:52
Speaker 1: dating and social media profiles UM and what is often
10:55
Speaker 1: called cat fishing. Then comes to ask for money, often
10:59
Speaker 1: to cover a surprise medical fee or a legal fee
11:02
Speaker 1: UM that they promised to pay back but never do.
11:04
Speaker 1: They often claim that they are on building projects outside
11:07
Speaker 1: of the United States or whatever country of the target
11:10
Speaker 1: is located in. Scammers frequently claimed to be in the
11:13
Speaker 1: military to um or working on an oil rig, or
11:16
Speaker 1: a doctor with an international organization. So basically they're like
11:19
Speaker 1: traveling a lot not near you, and they often ask
11:22
Speaker 1: for money to pay for a plane ticket or other
11:24
Speaker 1: travel expenses, surgery or other medical expenses, custom fees, to
11:29
Speaker 1: pay off gambling debts UM, or to pay for travel documents.
11:33
Speaker 1: They usually ask the target to wire money or to
11:35
Speaker 1: pay with a reload and or gift card. Because they
11:39
Speaker 1: are anonymous and pretty much impossible to reverse. It's not
11:42
Speaker 1: a one time thing either. They keep asking for more
11:45
Speaker 1: until the scam is up are the money is gone
11:48
Speaker 1: right again. I feel like these are so many, either
11:51
Speaker 1: like criminal minds or all these little episodes that we see.
11:55
Speaker 1: So romance scams are up in recent years, which is
11:57
Speaker 1: really sad. In twenty the TC reported three hundred and
12:01
Speaker 1: four million dollars in losses due to romance scams, a
12:05
Speaker 1: fifty increase from twenty nineteen. The reported money loss to
12:10
Speaker 1: these scams has increased by six times since. The FTC
12:15
Speaker 1: also reported that while there were eleven thousand, two d
12:18
Speaker 1: thirty five cases reported in twenty six, there were fifty
12:22
Speaker 1: two thousand, five hundred and ninety three in twenty two. Yeah,
12:27
Speaker 1: that's a big number. That is a huge number. And
12:30
Speaker 1: part of this is yeah, so numbers from that Three
12:34
Speaker 1: out of ten Americans have used a dating website UM,
12:37
Speaker 1: including one out of five Americans between the ages of
12:39
Speaker 1: fifty to sixty four. However, while the popular stereotype is
12:44
Speaker 1: the one of older folks becoming victims to these types
12:47
Speaker 1: of scams, anyone can be a target. I just want
12:50
Speaker 1: to reiterate that anyone can be a target. UM. In fact,
12:53
Speaker 1: a recent survey came out indicating that gen z is
12:56
Speaker 1: at the highest risk of these types of scams. I
13:00
Speaker 1: wonder why. Let's find out. So from CNBC quote the
13:05
Speaker 1: number of individuals ages twenty or younger members of the
13:08
Speaker 1: Generation Z or gen Z who has grown up on
13:11
Speaker 1: smartphones and the internet, reporting they are victims of cyber
13:14
Speaker 1: fraud has searched a hundred fifty six percent over the
13:17
Speaker 1: last three years. And this is according to the study
13:19
Speaker 1: from Social Catfish, an online identity verification service. Maybe we
13:24
Speaker 1: need to get onto this type of services. Uh, just
13:27
Speaker 1: can even get scammed. That compares to one growth during
13:31
Speaker 1: the same time among people aged sixty or older. Uh,
13:35
Speaker 1: the group with the next fast scam growth. So maybe
13:38
Speaker 1: it is a social media and smartphones that's making that difference. However,
13:43
Speaker 1: the overall financial toll is higher for older folks. Uh.
13:47
Speaker 1: The average loss from a romantic scam for those over
13:50
Speaker 1: seventy is nine thousand, seventy five dollars compared to the
13:54
Speaker 1: twenty five hundred dollars across all age groups. Yeah, that's
13:57
Speaker 1: pretty significant. In twin me ten romance scams accounting for
14:02
Speaker 1: one of the top ten most costly scams for those
14:05
Speaker 1: sixty and older. Yeah, and UM, we're going to talk
14:10
Speaker 1: about this a bit later, but I do want to
14:12
Speaker 1: also know a listener several years ago, so I hope
14:15
Speaker 1: you're still listening to suggested this topic, and they said
14:20
Speaker 1: how devastating it was to watch I believe their mother
14:25
Speaker 1: just not believe that this wasn't a real person and
14:28
Speaker 1: having those conversations because it's just so painful to tell
14:31
Speaker 1: someone like, no, this isn't a real person cares about
14:34
Speaker 1: you and they're just asking for money, And how devastating
14:36
Speaker 1: it was for her as someone who knew a person
14:40
Speaker 1: who's being affected by this. So it's not just like
14:42
Speaker 1: one person. It often has ripple effects for people in
14:46
Speaker 1: their in their support group, according to a detective interviewed
14:49
Speaker 1: by the Irish Times, when it comes to romance scams,
14:52
Speaker 1: the vast majority of victims are women. Many are separated
14:56
Speaker 1: or widowed and in their late fifties or their sixties.
14:58
Speaker 1: They might have family, but may be living alone. They
15:01
Speaker 1: have maybe had some wine in the evening, so their
15:03
Speaker 1: inhibitions are down. They are not, however, what I would
15:06
Speaker 1: describe as vulnerable. They are naive for sure, if they
15:08
Speaker 1: tend to be very well educated professionals and would hate
15:11
Speaker 1: to be described as vulnerable more than these caught up
15:15
Speaker 1: in romance scams are women. What happens with men is different.
15:18
Speaker 1: Not long after contact is made, a man might get
15:20
Speaker 1: a video from the woman he believes he is communicating with,
15:22
Speaker 1: and in it she is performing a sex act, so
15:24
Speaker 1: he sends something similar back and then it quickly becomes
15:27
Speaker 1: the case of blackmail, which we talked about a little
15:31
Speaker 1: bit in our cyber stalking episode. In the words of
15:35
Speaker 1: Paul C. Dwire, chief executive of cyber Risk International, quote,
15:39
Speaker 1: the romance scams are huge. They try and find a
15:41
Speaker 1: lonely woman and get her to fall in love with
15:43
Speaker 1: a handsome profile picture of a guy. It's not like
15:45
Speaker 1: there is one bad actor with one victim. These guys
15:48
Speaker 1: might have forty or fifty women on the go, and
15:50
Speaker 1: they keep all the plate spinning, so it becomes extremely lucrative.
15:54
Speaker 1: They have their cubicle, that's their job, and they go
15:56
Speaker 1: in every day and we'll keep files and techniques as
15:59
Speaker 1: they work away to get somebody. What they're selling is
16:02
Speaker 1: love and hope, and you have these lonely people buying
16:04
Speaker 1: it because they're falling for the dream. Oh it makes
16:09
Speaker 1: me sad um And these scams often overlap with other
16:14
Speaker 1: criminal activities. International criminal gangs often use dating apps to
16:18
Speaker 1: launder illegally obtained funds through bank accounts of unsuspecting folks
16:23
Speaker 1: um some who have even been arrested for it, like
16:26
Speaker 1: they didn't realize their bank accounts were being used in
16:28
Speaker 1: this way and they got arrested. Going back to a
16:31
Speaker 1: recent episode on crypto currency, the FBI has recently raised
16:35
Speaker 1: the flag about the rise of cryptocurrency scams, especially since
16:39
Speaker 1: there's so much confusion around how crypto works and the
16:42
Speaker 1: whole get rich quick elements that kind of surrounds crypto.
16:49
Speaker 1: Just like romance scams, crypto scams have surged in recent years.
16:53
Speaker 1: From October to March, the FTC received about six thousand,
16:57
Speaker 1: eight hundred complaints compared to five hundred F and D
17:00
Speaker 1: from the same period the year prior. Reported losses group
17:04
Speaker 1: by ten times to eighty million dollars. Sometimes crypto scammers
17:08
Speaker 1: are also romance scammers. According to the FBI, in the
17:12
Speaker 1: first seven months, they received one thousand, eight hundred reports
17:16
Speaker 1: of crypto focused romance scams, equaling upwards of one and
17:20
Speaker 1: thirty three million dollars of losses. Some of these scammers
17:23
Speaker 1: are going yeah after thirty after forty or fifty women
17:28
Speaker 1: at the same time. This lot and many experts think
17:33
Speaker 1: the pandemic exacerbated all of this, online dating was the
17:36
Speaker 1: only acceptable dating and online interaction in general was how
17:40
Speaker 1: we were interacting because the pandemic so and people were lonely.
17:47
Speaker 1: A lot of people have been in our lonely during
17:50
Speaker 1: this pandemic, right, the U S isn't the only country
17:53
Speaker 1: seeing which arise from the Guardian quote. According to Action Fraud,
17:57
Speaker 1: the UK's reporting center for fraud in cybercrime, eight thousand,
18:00
Speaker 1: eight hundred sixty three cases were reported to the National
18:03
Speaker 1: Fraud Intelligence Bureau or n f i B between November
18:06
Speaker 1: twenty twenty in October one, up from six thousand sixty
18:10
Speaker 1: eight the previous year, with the total losses for the
18:13
Speaker 1: past year amounting to almost a ninety two million pounds.
18:17
Speaker 1: Daters who started online relationships between Christmas and Valentine's Day
18:20
Speaker 1: were the most susceptible, y'all, so be careful, with nine
18:25
Speaker 1: one reports recorded in March one. But they also note
18:29
Speaker 1: due to the shame and stigma around this issue, the
18:31
Speaker 1: numbers are most likely low. Yeah, I'm thinking it's gonna
18:34
Speaker 1: be very under reported because they don't want to talk
18:36
Speaker 1: about how they had gotten scammed for being lonely. If
18:40
Speaker 1: that's the case, which is not the case all the time.
18:42
Speaker 1: It's just really got caught up with whoever you thought
18:45
Speaker 1: would be your dream person. And you know, now that
18:50
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this, I want to know if this
18:53
Speaker 1: is a real thing, listeners. I think I talked about
18:56
Speaker 1: it in a recent episode, but there's a fan fixed
18:58
Speaker 1: I was reading about hiring a fake someone to pretend
19:02
Speaker 1: to be your significant partner during a holiday, specifically so
19:08
Speaker 1: your family wouldn't ask you any questions. I mean, all
19:11
Speaker 1: we talk about escorts because I know there are actual
19:15
Speaker 1: escorts who can be a service and are legal because
19:18
Speaker 1: it's not part of sex work, which we're not saying
19:21
Speaker 1: is a bad thing anyway, but I know that that
19:23
Speaker 1: has a big stipulation within the federal laws, especially like
19:27
Speaker 1: if it's in magazines and such like. There's a lot
19:29
Speaker 1: of things, but I think there's escort services and essentially
19:32
Speaker 1: say we will escort will be a partner for you physically,
19:35
Speaker 1: not necessarily sexually. I feel like those yeah, that might
19:39
Speaker 1: be along those lines. Interesting. I believe in this fan
19:43
Speaker 1: fiction it was a Craigslist aid, but women, well a
19:52
Speaker 1: little bit is a little bit, A little bit more
19:56
Speaker 1: like that's going to be a murderer, be careful. Well
20:00
Speaker 1: this is I mean, I guess you could get caught
20:02
Speaker 1: up in That would have been the dark ending of
20:04
Speaker 1: that story, because in it, of course they actually do
20:06
Speaker 1: fall up, but the dark end would have been it's
20:08
Speaker 1: a scam all along, bt doves. I just saw that
20:11
Speaker 1: Netflix has a Tinder. It's called Tinder, something I've already forgotten.
20:16
Speaker 1: I'm sure our listeners are going to know, you know,
20:18
Speaker 1: about a serial killer I think who met people through
20:21
Speaker 1: online dating. Yeah, that's when I was researching this. That
20:24
Speaker 1: popped up and I was like, well, wow, okay, okay, yes,
20:28
Speaker 1: So back to some numbers. According to the Irish Times
20:31
Speaker 1: quote in twenty nineteen, about four hundred thousand euros was
20:34
Speaker 1: lost by love sick Irish people, with the country in
20:37
Speaker 1: lockdown for much of and people isolated it more lonely
20:40
Speaker 1: than before. That figure jumped to more than one million euros. Again,
20:45
Speaker 1: that's only what was reported. It's become such an issue
20:48
Speaker 1: that some money sending agencies like Western Union are now
20:51
Speaker 1: looking for instances of fraud since they can be held liable.
20:54
Speaker 1: I personally think they should have been doing that all
20:56
Speaker 1: at all. But I know you've made this point already.
21:01
Speaker 1: But I just want to drive it home. It's really cruel. Um,
21:04
Speaker 1: this whole thing is really cruel. It's really manipulative. A
21:07
Speaker 1: lot of times it weaponizes empathy. I read so many
21:10
Speaker 1: accounts from people who had gone through this and lost
21:13
Speaker 1: all of their money and felt just so terrible and
21:18
Speaker 1: ashamed by it. And like one example was the scammer
21:24
Speaker 1: had told people that their daughter had died and they
21:29
Speaker 1: needed help with the funeral, or that they were being
21:32
Speaker 1: held hostage by loan sharks and tortured, like really intense
21:36
Speaker 1: emotionally manipulative. Thanks. And then after reporting over three thousand,
21:43
Speaker 1: five hundred pounds of lost to a romantic scam, a
21:46
Speaker 1: target who was interviewed named Anna said, I had spent
21:49
Speaker 1: the year completely unstable, trapped in this abusive cycle. I'd
21:53
Speaker 1: become obsessed with preventing his pain. It felt like losing
21:55
Speaker 1: a husband that I loved with every inch of my
21:58
Speaker 1: heart and soul. I was never going to get any
22:01
Speaker 1: closure or say goodbye, you know, the whole being held
22:06
Speaker 1: hostage and all that thing. That really like, there's so
22:10
Speaker 1: many crime shows, like entertaining crime shows. I don't mean, like,
22:15
Speaker 1: you know, like sv level of crime shows that I
22:17
Speaker 1: see that on. I wonder like, does it really happen?
22:20
Speaker 1: Has that really happened? Do we have cases on them? Oh,
22:25
Speaker 1: we're like, it's not a scam, it's actually a thing. Yeah,
22:29
Speaker 1: I'm sure it has. I would imagine it's very low number, right, well,
22:36
Speaker 1: because I know we've definitely seen cases, and not too many,
22:39
Speaker 1: but some cases where they have two families and they
22:41
Speaker 1: have two different like the men pretend to be two
22:44
Speaker 1: different men, and it's always men who have the families,
22:47
Speaker 1: of course, and like, I've never seen any cases whereas
22:51
Speaker 1: women leading double lives and that There's could be many
22:53
Speaker 1: reasons to that, but I've seen that that's a whole
22:55
Speaker 1: different scam in itself. Yeah, having a second family. So
23:00
Speaker 1: another woman said, I feel like I've been incredibly stupid,
23:03
Speaker 1: but he was so convincing. I'm heartbroken and unstable to
23:06
Speaker 1: trust my own judgment. My confidence has been shattered. I'm
23:10
Speaker 1: still lonely, but I don't know how I'll ever be
23:12
Speaker 1: able to trust anyone again. As much as I want
23:15
Speaker 1: to forget it, I can't. I struggle to get out
23:17
Speaker 1: of bed to go to work, and there's been many
23:19
Speaker 1: times I just want to end my life. I can't
23:21
Speaker 1: understand how this has happened to me, And I feel
23:24
Speaker 1: like there was a couple of cases where cat fishing
23:26
Speaker 1: has ended with someone dying by suicide. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
23:32
Speaker 1: I just that's why I really thought, we really thought
23:35
Speaker 1: it was important to put this in here, because I
23:38
Speaker 1: do feel like it's the butt of a lot of
23:39
Speaker 1: jokes and we kind of assume whoever fell for it
23:43
Speaker 1: must not be that bright, but that's really just not
23:45
Speaker 1: the case. And I my heart goes out to anybody
23:48
Speaker 1: who's gone through this because I can't imagine believing like
23:51
Speaker 1: just because it was a scam doesn't mean the emotions
23:55
Speaker 1: weren't real, right, and you didn't feel that way, And
23:59
Speaker 1: it's tragic to me that somebody, I mean everything, everything
24:05
Speaker 1: is complex in nuance, but it's tragic, but like that
24:09
Speaker 1: is getting played on of that like willingness to love someone,
24:12
Speaker 1: which is already pretty scary, right exciting and scary as
24:16
Speaker 1: being turned into this like painful thing where people feel
24:20
Speaker 1: like they can't trust anybody again or they can't love again.
24:25
Speaker 1: Um sad. When asked about this, trauma therapist Olivia James
24:43
Speaker 1: said many of us have wounds around our age, appearance,
24:47
Speaker 1: and past relationships that make it susceptible to someone promising love.
24:50
Speaker 1: It's tempting to ignore doubts and see what we want
24:52
Speaker 1: to see. Sometimes people have an inkling, but the fear
24:55
Speaker 1: of abandonment is too much. Romance fraud is just a
24:58
Speaker 1: more extreme version of something lots of us have experienced.
25:02
Speaker 1: For some people, there's an element of rescue fantasy too.
25:05
Speaker 1: If they can help this person, they'll be able to
25:07
Speaker 1: live out there happily. Ever after romance. James went on
25:11
Speaker 1: to also say that this type of crime can lead
25:13
Speaker 1: to PTSD, long term mental health conditions, and financial instability.
25:18
Speaker 1: So people feel completely destabilized, they stop trusting themselves or
25:22
Speaker 1: anyone else. As humans, we need connections with others, so
25:25
Speaker 1: being betrayed by someone you thought was your soul mate
25:27
Speaker 1: is incredibly hard. She stresses too, that the pressure to
25:31
Speaker 1: find the one can make all of this worse. Right,
25:34
Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking, Like, we've been taught so
25:37
Speaker 1: often that we need a mate, that we need that
25:40
Speaker 1: one other that complete us um and that especially for women,
25:44
Speaker 1: that this we are not ever going to be whole
25:46
Speaker 1: unless we are in a couple, in a family, and
25:49
Speaker 1: that we are the head of the mother of the household.
25:52
Speaker 1: So there's definitely a layer of social implications to this
25:55
Speaker 1: as well, and the pressures for many of people and
25:58
Speaker 1: trying to find that perfect romance and being told that
26:01
Speaker 1: was our value to begin with. Yeah, yeah, um exactly.
26:05
Speaker 1: And I think especially for women when it comes to
26:07
Speaker 1: and I hate this is true, but we all have
26:10
Speaker 1: a relative or somebody has told us when your biological
26:13
Speaker 1: clock is ticking, and so it's like men don't have
26:17
Speaker 1: the same pressure of like the age bearing down on
26:21
Speaker 1: them that women do. Or we're like, oh I have
26:23
Speaker 1: to buy this age or I'm no one whatever I
26:26
Speaker 1: want to be with me. And that makes me mad too,
26:28
Speaker 1: because I feel like it's weaponizing, like if a woman
26:31
Speaker 1: in this case feels like, oh I might never find
26:34
Speaker 1: anybody I'm older and someone is reaching out, like it's
26:38
Speaker 1: it's playing on that vulnerability too. Of we was like,
26:43
Speaker 1: I hate it. I hate it, But I think some
26:44
Speaker 1: people find their worth in that like of worth and
26:47
Speaker 1: people being interested in them, which again, yes, we're taught that,
26:52
Speaker 1: but yeah, it just makes me. It makes me mad. Well,
26:55
Speaker 1: I mean that's one of the good things. I don't know,
26:57
Speaker 1: maybe it's the world I'm traveling in and so therefore
26:59
Speaker 1: men are and called out. So that's what I'm seeing.
27:01
Speaker 1: But as of late, there's been an upsurge from what
27:04
Speaker 1: I've been viewing on men calling out women and saying
27:07
Speaker 1: that hey, you need to know your worth, and your
27:09
Speaker 1: worth goes down when you get older. You need to
27:11
Speaker 1: know that you're not as valuable because you've had children,
27:14
Speaker 1: or you're not as lovable because you've gained weight, or
27:16
Speaker 1: like all these things. And I've seen that narrative being
27:19
Speaker 1: used a lot, especially in the podcasting world, whereas all
27:21
Speaker 1: men and I want to punch them in their disks
27:23
Speaker 1: because they deserve it. But that's been a thing that's
27:26
Speaker 1: been coming out, and during this time of people talking
27:28
Speaker 1: about trying to be more feminist, the way that they
27:31
Speaker 1: rage back and say no, you need to be put
27:33
Speaker 1: back into your place is using age, using being single,
27:37
Speaker 1: or using having children and fat shaming as a way
27:40
Speaker 1: to weaponize against women to say that you're not a
27:42
Speaker 1: value if you're not here, and so what you get
27:45
Speaker 1: is what you deserve, whether it is actually what we deserve,
27:48
Speaker 1: because we deserve a lot more than what they are saying.
27:50
Speaker 1: Obviously that was a little bit cyclical, on that one, Yeah,
27:54
Speaker 1: you should be so lucky to get my attention, right,
27:57
Speaker 1: And that's that's this level of like women, if you
28:00
Speaker 1: really want to be seen as the perfect queen, which
28:02
Speaker 1: that that's been a push back to because women are
28:04
Speaker 1: actually coming to the point of valuing themselves and so
28:07
Speaker 1: a lot of the misogynistic, patriarchal people who have been
28:12
Speaker 1: thriving in that life are piste and so this is
28:15
Speaker 1: how they're pushing back because that's the only thing they
28:17
Speaker 1: know and has been used for so long that this
28:20
Speaker 1: is what they've got in their back pocket. And I
28:21
Speaker 1: feel like this absolutely pushes this narrative to having victims
28:26
Speaker 1: like this and having people who have gone through this,
28:29
Speaker 1: and also changes the narrative it's their fault because they
28:32
Speaker 1: weren't smart enough to see that they're not worth it.
28:34
Speaker 1: And it's such a big pile of that has been
28:37
Speaker 1: handed to us and continues to be handed to us,
28:40
Speaker 1: and I want to punch people in the dicks, like
28:41
Speaker 1: I said, um, but anyway, so it's important to note
28:45
Speaker 1: also while most romance scamps these days are online, they
28:49
Speaker 1: can and do happen in person and oftentimes on phones.
28:53
Speaker 1: I've seen that like they are going to landlines and
28:56
Speaker 1: using that as the way it's scamming as well. Yeah, um,
29:00
Speaker 1: and we do a lot of the articles we found
29:03
Speaker 1: researching this were about prevention and it was very That's
29:08
Speaker 1: what kind of gave me at least a scope of
29:10
Speaker 1: the problem of the size of it, because like every
29:13
Speaker 1: state the United States had one like it, the FBI
29:16
Speaker 1: has their main one, and then like every state as
29:18
Speaker 1: one and countries have them. Here's how to avoid it,
29:21
Speaker 1: here's how to recognize that. But we did want to
29:23
Speaker 1: share some of those with you. Right, So, if someone
29:26
Speaker 1: you've met online and need your bank account to deposit money,
29:30
Speaker 1: that's a big red flag. Then there's a high chance
29:32
Speaker 1: they're using it for nefarious activities. As a reminder, also,
29:36
Speaker 1: I think there was a big conversation about like things
29:38
Speaker 1: like Venmo and um any of those little cash as.
29:42
Speaker 1: Believe cash app maybe a little more safe than Vemo
29:46
Speaker 1: and PayPal. I'm not for sure that there's this debate
29:48
Speaker 1: about it um and who uses what, but I know
29:51
Speaker 1: Vinmo has been criticized because that's linked to your bank
29:54
Speaker 1: account and a lot of people have been using it
29:56
Speaker 1: to get money from them and then like linking in
29:59
Speaker 1: and thinking that this is for you know, my boo
30:02
Speaker 1: needs this for gas. But there's there's a lot of
30:04
Speaker 1: things to that too, right, yeah, I mean that's another
30:07
Speaker 1: episode we've done in the past of like financial abuse,
30:09
Speaker 1: and that's also a piece of this. But um, yeah,
30:13
Speaker 1: the FBI has a few tips on how to avoid
30:15
Speaker 1: becoming a victim to your romance scam, so be mindful
30:19
Speaker 1: of what you post online. Scammers can take this information
30:22
Speaker 1: to manipulate you privatize all your settings. I know this
30:25
Speaker 1: isn't really related, but I just went through because I
30:28
Speaker 1: saw I saw an article about how like your TV
30:30
Speaker 1: is spying on you, and I went through and made so, well,
30:36
Speaker 1: I have my Alexa here. They shut it on. Okay,
30:40
Speaker 1: they the newer versions have actually cameras on it, and
30:43
Speaker 1: I had to turn that off because I was like,
30:44
Speaker 1: what is this? As well as the sidewalk sharing and
30:47
Speaker 1: apparently you can just people passing by can get on
30:49
Speaker 1: it somehow, I'm like, why would I want those? And
30:51
Speaker 1: that's a feature they were very proud of. Still confused
30:54
Speaker 1: by why I would want that Samsung Watch that I
30:58
Speaker 1: know that has a lot to like not necessarily a video,
31:01
Speaker 1: but like it can still link to my bank account
31:03
Speaker 1: that got it's got. You're gonna put a card on
31:05
Speaker 1: here if I wanted to pay with it? I know'm
31:07
Speaker 1: that could be a link to it too, But yeah,
31:09
Speaker 1: really weird? Yeahs who we are? Yeah, so try to
31:14
Speaker 1: There's plenty of articles about like if you here's what
31:17
Speaker 1: you need to do on your phone and your TV
31:19
Speaker 1: like everything. So look that up, do your research. See
31:22
Speaker 1: if the person in question has any as an online presence.
31:26
Speaker 1: Search the picture, uh, the name, the bio, And I
31:29
Speaker 1: know that feels kind of cyberstockery, but it's kind of
31:32
Speaker 1: the unfortunate reality. And I think a lot of us
31:34
Speaker 1: do that when we're online dating anyway, especially women, because
31:38
Speaker 1: we've just been told yeah, you might be murdered. Remember,
31:41
Speaker 1: images can be super imposed over faces and video calls,
31:44
Speaker 1: so sometimes you will actually have a video called somebody
31:47
Speaker 1: and it's not actually their face. Also, remember that many
31:51
Speaker 1: scammers work as a team. As they introduce you to
31:54
Speaker 1: their friends, the friends are in on it too, So
31:58
Speaker 1: that's also unfortunate because I felt like, oh, here are
32:01
Speaker 1: the friends. But yeah, yeah, that was all want to tell. Tell,
32:04
Speaker 1: But to be fair, I'd also be like, okay, you
32:05
Speaker 1: could tell a lot by their friends and if they're shady,
32:08
Speaker 1: hey are probably shady. So asking questions and be cautious.
32:12
Speaker 1: That's always good. Don't rush into anything and don't let
32:14
Speaker 1: yourself be rushed. And I do want to do a
32:16
Speaker 1: future episode about love bombing because that's also one of
32:19
Speaker 1: the big signs that we need to talk about. But like,
32:21
Speaker 1: why why are you in this? Uh? Yes, going into
32:24
Speaker 1: so if something is too good to be true, it
32:26
Speaker 1: probably is. If someone pressures you to leaving a dating
32:28
Speaker 1: app or social media apps soon after contact in order
32:31
Speaker 1: to communicate directly, be wary if they shore you with
32:35
Speaker 1: I guess a lot of affection of emotion very quickly,
32:38
Speaker 1: be wary. This is called love bombing. Like I said,
32:40
Speaker 1: I do want to come back to it and the
32:42
Speaker 1: basis of this because I was like what, because it's
32:45
Speaker 1: used to be linked to a lot of abusive relationships
32:48
Speaker 1: in general. Yes, yes, absolutely. Also be wary if the
32:52
Speaker 1: individual tries to isolate you from your support group, or
32:55
Speaker 1: if they ask for inappropriate photos or financial information that
32:58
Speaker 1: could be used to blackmail you. If promises of meeting
33:01
Speaker 1: in person are repeatedly broken, ask why don't send money
33:05
Speaker 1: to anyone You've only interacted with online, even if you
33:08
Speaker 1: made first contact. Do not let your guard down if
33:12
Speaker 1: they are overly flirtatious or complimentary, or if your picture
33:15
Speaker 1: looks like that of a model. Ask questions if you
33:20
Speaker 1: suspect you are in the target of a romance scam.
33:23
Speaker 1: Experts have a few tips um stop communicating with a person.
33:26
Speaker 1: Immediately talk to somebody you trust about your concerns. Do
33:30
Speaker 1: a search with job title like U S Army scammer
33:34
Speaker 1: or oil rigs scammer to see if other people have
33:36
Speaker 1: similar stories. Search the profile of this picture to google
33:40
Speaker 1: is your friend of this? I will google everyone to
33:42
Speaker 1: be as a social worker, I came close to be
33:44
Speaker 1: like I did. Do a psychological evaluation on all my dates. Anyway,
33:49
Speaker 1: if you are sent money or a gift card, you
33:51
Speaker 1: can report it. You can also report scams to the
33:53
Speaker 1: FTC here in the US, I do know with the
33:56
Speaker 1: crypto and n f T. It's only become recently federal
34:00
Speaker 1: investigators have come involved because of the scamming. There was
34:03
Speaker 1: a huge one we didn't talk about because it was
34:05
Speaker 1: led by a dude who scammed a giant network of people,
34:09
Speaker 1: got millions and then, like did a pseudonym and no
34:12
Speaker 1: one could catch them, really really funky um. And then
34:15
Speaker 1: there are support groups and resources out there that you
34:18
Speaker 1: can't get onto. And I'm betting there's a lot of
34:21
Speaker 1: group of women who understand this and what has happened
34:25
Speaker 1: to them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's I know there's a
34:31
Speaker 1: lot of isolating and shame around it, but there are
34:34
Speaker 1: there are resources out there that are great, and there
34:36
Speaker 1: are people who are open with their stories. And I
34:40
Speaker 1: always feel, like we say that, it makes me sad
34:42
Speaker 1: too to know that there are so many that have
34:44
Speaker 1: experienced this, but I'm glad that there's support happening right
34:48
Speaker 1: with people who have experienced it. And also, this is
34:52
Speaker 1: kind of outside the scope of this episode. This whole
34:57
Speaker 1: cycle is it's very complicated nuance and like who's doing
35:01
Speaker 1: the scamming and why they are doing the scamming and
35:04
Speaker 1: it's worth discussing that part of this piece as well.
35:09
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's outside of this this episode for now.
35:15
Speaker 1: But with that said, if you are happy Valentine, say
35:22
Speaker 1: I don't know, and happy anti Valentine's Day everyone, um,
35:30
Speaker 1: it stays safe online? Uh, And we love you were
35:35
Speaker 1: It's true and we also love hearing from you, so
35:38
Speaker 1: If you would like to contact us, you can. You
35:40
Speaker 1: can email us at stuff and your mom Stuff at
35:42
Speaker 1: I Hurt me dot com. You can find us on
35:44
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at stuff
35:46
Speaker 1: I Never Told You. Thanks. It's always to our super
35:48
Speaker 1: producer Christina. So much love to you, Yes, and thanks
35:53
Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You. Protection
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