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How governments handle UFO reports · Journey to the Fringe

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From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
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us on a journey to the fringe. Hello and welcome
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to JTT Fringe. Now, Chelsea, I learned from a
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politician that you can seem more interesting
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than you actually are if you just use the initials
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of your first few words. That's nice. We are
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your podcast host TNC here today doing somewhat
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of a follow up on an episode, but I didn't want
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to make it a two parter. So it's not really,
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but it kind of is. Anyhow, I think the easiest
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way to explain it is a few episodes ago, we did
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the Government of Canada's UFO readiness response,
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basically of how we're dealing with UFO sightings.
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Good episode. And I mentioned in that episode,
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it was really long, really in -depth, and there
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was parts I had to cut that may be their own
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episode, and this one is its own episode. The
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report itself was the Management of Public Reporting
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of Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon in Canada,
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came out in June 2025, written by the Office
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of the Chief Science advisor of Canada under
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what's called the Sky Canada project. Again,
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I would love this job. This would be a nice job
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for me, I feel like. Yeah. I don't know if Chelsea,
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you just, I don't think you have the resume or
1:15
the schooling background to be hired by the office
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of the chief science advisor of Canada. Based
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on the title, I would say no, but I could dream.
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At this point in my life, I can't say it's possible,
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but you never know. Stranger things can happen.
1:35
Wolves became orcas. Going back to the ocean
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and being stuck there. Who would have thought
1:40
that? So I have hopes. Just an aside, I've always
1:44
thought it's so weird that wolves went from like
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these brave, rugged, strong creatures of the
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forest to pugs. But I do think it is actually
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weirder that they became orcas and blue whales.
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How come they just became everything on this
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fucking planet? They really did. Are we wolves?
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We gotta look into this further. Anyhow, that's
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for a different time. We came to that at the
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same time. Yep. It's like how everything is corn.
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That was good stuff. Okay, continue. There's
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a portion of this paper that specifically talks
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about reporting systems in other countries and
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the reporting system as it stands in Canada today,
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which I did somewhat take out. And that's what
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this is going to cover today. Reporting structure
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in Canada for seeing UFO currently, as well as
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other countries throughout the world that were
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looked at and researched for this paper's purpose.
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Interesting. I thought it would give us a good
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oversight because I basically know about MUFON
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and a few other things that you might be reporting
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to. But outside of that, I think it's a pretty
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gray area for most people. Outside MUFON, which
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is sketchy at best given their history. But people
3:02
report UFOs everywhere. Like they report them
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to podcasts. They report them, I don't know,
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probably to the newspaper. People don't know
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where necessarily to report a UFO. Yeah. In fact,
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I really like that there's one part in the paper
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where people kept calling us to report UFOs,
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despite the fact on our website it says, do not
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call us about this. See, that's just people being
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so people -y. Yeah, let's face it, like a good
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20 % of all UFO sightings just go in one ear
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and out the other of George Norrie. George, yeah,
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George Norrie. George Norrie, you said it right.
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Yeah. who gives literally no thought. He just
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makes the stupidest comment back. Yeah. Let's
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get into this because it is a bit longer, but
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I think it's still a reasonable length and we'll
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just start. Oh, one important thing. The Office
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of the Chief Science Advisor shortens to OCSA.
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It's one of the opening things that we need to
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know. So crap. I always hate remembering these.
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I don't think you could remember this one that
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much. Okay, good. Okay. And the next one I think
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you're gonna know too when we get to it. I think
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you'll know. We'll see. The OCSA, which we just
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discussed, consulted with and gathered this information
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from federal government departments and agencies
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as well as from several non -governmental organizations
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and individual interests in UAPs. Federal departments
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and agencies were asked specific questions aimed
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at understanding the role they played, if any,
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in UAP report management. That's the next acronym
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I thought you would know. Oh, sorry. What was
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it? UAP. Oh yeah, I did know that. But I forgot
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the other one when it stands for again. Oh, science
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something. Canada's science agency. Sure. I don't
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think it matters too much, you may give what
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you will. Specifically, they were asked whether
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the Canadian public is contacting their organization
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for UAP sightings, if so, how frequently, what
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follow -up is done, and how is the information
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safeguarded. These consultations revealed that
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federal departments and agencies do receive UAP
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sightings, information, and reports from their
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stakeholders and the public. However, few of
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these organizations are currently investigating
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these sightings unless they pertain to specific
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aspects of their respective mandates, such as
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national security, transportation safety, or
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public safety, and those instances are fairly
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rare. Additionally, most departments do not compile
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the reports they receive, making it difficult
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to provide information on the number of reports
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or the type of responses given. So the first
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one they look at, Transport Canada, shortened
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to TC and NAV Canada. Transport Canada is the
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federal department responsible for road, rail,
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marine, and air transportation. Its civil aviation
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directorate collects reports on various incidents
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including UAP sightings from pilots, air traffic
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controllers, and the public. These reports are
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shared publicly through the Civil Aviation Daily
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Occurrence Report System, KADORS. which is accessible
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on Transport Canada's KDORS website. Specifically,
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KDORS collects and distributes basic information
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on incidents involving Canadian registered aircrafts
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at Canadian airports in Canadian sovereign space
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and international airspace for which Canada has
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accepted responsibility. NavCanada is a private,
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not -for -profit corporation. It has been Canada's
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air navigation service provider since 1996. It
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oversees air traffic activity through a sophisticated
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network of area control centers, air traffic
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control ATC towers, flight service stations,
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maintenance centers, flight information centers,
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and navigation aids across the country. In the
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case of UAP sightings, pilots typically report
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their sightings to the nearest ATC tower, flight
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service station, or other air traffic units.
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These units file an aviation Currents Report,
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AOR, with NAV Canada, which subsequently gets
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sent to Transport Canada's CADORS team for assessment
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and processing. UAP siting reports from the public
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can be reported to Transport Canada through the
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Online Aviation Incidence Report application.
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Reports filed in this way may also be published
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through CADORS, provided they meet the criteria
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for inclusion. Analysts at Transport Canada use
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these UAP reports to create a CADORS report based
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on the details of the occurrence. These are then
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assigned as events in CADORS, under three categories
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depending on the information provided. Weather
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Balloon, Meteor, Rocket, UFO, and Intelligence
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Sighting. That's all one category, just so we're
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on the same page. Laser Interference, or Other
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Operational Incident. They really throw you off
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with that first one being like six. Weather balloon,
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meteor, rocket, UFO, and intelligence sighting.
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I wonder under which one the rocket man that
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they spotted at LAX would fall under. That would
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be the first one. Weather balloon, meteor, rocket,
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UFO, and intelligence sighting. I would think
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that's an intelligence sighting. Super impressed
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right now with how forthcoming they are with
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the information of how exactly the process works.
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Examination of KDOR's reports allows for follow
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-up on high -risk events while looking for trends
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in emerging risks or aggregated analyses by Transport
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Canada. Further follow -up may be undertaken
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by various organizations including Transport
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Canada, NAV Canada, the Transportation Safety
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Board of Canada, and the North American Aerospace
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Defense Command, NORAD. NAV Canada provides about
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80 % of the aviation occurrence information in
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each CADORS record. Other sources of information
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used to create or supplement a CADORS record
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include the information received from the Transportation
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Safety Board, TSB, and the RCMP, and aircraft
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operators and other agencies. NAV Canada is also
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responsible for the collection, evaluation, and
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dissemination of special messages called NOTAM.
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NOTAMs are short -term notices filed by NAV Canada
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to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards
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along a flight route or at locations that could
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affect a flight such as presence of wildlife,
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volcanic ash, ash warnings, satellites, rocket
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launches, solar storms, etc. In January 2024,
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CTV News reported on Transport Canada's Cador's
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online database. They identified only 17 events
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reported by pilots in 2023 that could be considered
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UAPs, spanning all types of occurrences and sightings.
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As such, UAP sightings make up a very small portion,
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about 0 .08 % of all incidences reported by pilots.
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They are so rare in cadors that Transport Canada
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is not incentivized to dedicate time and effort
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to explaining them. In fact, when such incidents
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do not raise serious safety concerns, Canadian
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authorities do not even investigate further.
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Next up, Canadian Coast Guard, CCG. This is a
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special operation agency within Fisheries and
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Oceans Canada, and I should say that one is very
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in -depth, not all of them are that long. This
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paragraph, this, the Coast Guard is a paragraph.
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CCG is a special operations agency within Fisheries
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and Oceans Canada. Its mission is to ensure the
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safety of mariners in Canadian waters, protect
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Canada's marine environment, and support the
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safe and efficient movement of maritime trade.
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The CCG rarely receives reports of UIPs, although
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it has procedures on how to treat such reports.
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As part of its annual notice to mariners, procedures
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on what are termed vital intelligence sightings,
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any waterborne objects which appears to be hostile,
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suspicious, or unidentified should be reported
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and handled as a Merrent messages are transmitted
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to the nearest most convenient Canadian or U
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.S. Coast Guard station. From 2010 to 2022, only
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two Merrent reports were filed, both to the CCG's
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western region. Strangely enough. But that's
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where that ends. Okay. Next up, Department of
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National Defense D &D. The Skype Canada Project
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focuses primarily on the civilian aspects of
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UAP sightings in Canada, excluding military sightings
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and processes. Nonetheless, meetings were held
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with representatives of the Department of National
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Defense, North American Aerospace... They defined
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NORAD like four times now, and they just still
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write it out and then say NORAD. Sorry, just
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an angry aside. The Canadian Armed Forces and
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Defence Research and Development Canada, DRDC,
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to discuss the goals of the Sky Canada project
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and receive any information they wanted to share.
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DRDC, the scientific research arm of DND, has
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informed the OCSA that it has no formal programs
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on UAPs and no capacity or mandate to collect,
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receive, or analyze citizens. The Royal Canadian
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Air Force, RCAF, does not typically investigate
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sightings of unexplained phenomena. Outside the
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context of investigating potential threats or
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distress, the RCAF collaborates with the US Federal
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Aviation Administration and Transport Canada
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to enforce safety and security regulations. Media
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reported that the RCAF represented the Canadian
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Armed Forces at a May 2023 Five Eyes briefing
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on UAP that I would love to know more about because
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we have a whole episode on Five Eyes. The informal
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meeting was hosted by the United States at the
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Pentagon where a presentation on UAPs was made
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by the U .S. All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office,
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AARO. While the details of the meeting remained
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classified, it was characterized as boosting
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cooperation on reporting and analyzing unexplained
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events. The OCSA was not able to access first
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-hand information about this meeting, which makes
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a lot of sense. Next up, the National Research
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Council of Canada. As mentioned in our prior
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episode, from 67 to 95, the NRC was the main
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federal government organization responsible for
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receiving UAP sightings reports in Canada. Within
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NRC, they are collated by the Herzberg Institute
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of Astrophysics and kept under the responsibility
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of Dr. Peter Millman in his non -meteoric sighting
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case report, a term referring to cases unrelated
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to meteors. Thanks for explaining that. The files
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gathered by the NRC were transferred to the Library
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and Archives Canada, LAC, in 1995, where they
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are accessible to the public. The NRC continues
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to receive occasional requests for information
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on archived UAP -related documents. According
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to their records, they processed about 40 inquiries
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related to UAPs over the last decade. These included
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sightings, questions, media requests. These inquiries
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were referred to other government departments
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such as Department of Transportation and LAC,
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as well as the Local Astronomy Club. such as
13:07
Centres of the Royal Astronomical Society of
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Canada. Next up, Library and Archives Canada,
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LAC, which again, they are terrible at defining
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things so they continue to define them later
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on. The LAC's collection of government records
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on UAPs includes files from 1947 to 1995, primarily
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received from four federal organizations. DND,
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Department of Transport, National Research Council
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of Canada, and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police,
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all of which they defined earlier and they refuse
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to use their acronym. except in that one sentence
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that Chelsea could not stop laughing at. Next
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up, RCMP. Most municipalities and provinces in
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Canada do not have their own police services.
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They rely on the Royal Canadian Mounted Police,
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the RCMP, which again, this is like the fifth
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time they've said it. They write it out and then
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they put in brackets RCMP. At that point, just
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move on. The RCMP serves approximately 73 % of
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Canada's landmass and holds a federal investigative
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mandate across the entire country. Consequently,
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the RCMP receives reports of UAPs from the public
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throughout Canada. However, the RCMP generally
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does not investigate sightings as its operational
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focus is on public safety and criminal investigations.
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Currently, the RCMP does not have a formal policy
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for the collection or dissemination of UAPs.
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reports. As a result, there is no classification
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system specific to UAPs. Such reports are typically
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categorized as non -offense, brackets non -criminal,
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incidents under the Aeronautics Act, other activities.
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This classification also encompasses a variety
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of other vessel sightings within airspaces. When
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members of the public contact the RCMP, the nature
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of the call is assessed and classified before
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an investigation is undertaken. However, there
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is no specific guidance for RCMP call takers
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or members regarding UAP reports. The calls can
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be categorized as suspicious via for example,
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and loss in a large number of non -UAP reports.
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It was therefore impossible for the RCMP to provide
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statistics about UAP reports. Yeah, I can see
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it. Yeah. Historically, the RCMP has conducted
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some investigations into unidentified flying
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objects, and many of these records have been
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declassified and are publicly available through
15:16
the LAC. During consultations with the OCSA,
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the RCMP acknowledged the growing public interest
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and proliferation of misinformation and disinformation
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on the subject. They noted the potential value
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of a dedicated office responsible for providing.
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factual information and serving as a centralized
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body for which UAP reports could be referred.
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This would allow the RCMP to stay focused on
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criminal investigations and threats to public
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safety. Additionally, the RCMP coordinates with
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provincial and municipal police departments as
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needed. The primary mission of these local and
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provincial police services is to ensure public
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safety and they typically approach UAP related
15:50
calls. From this perspective, the RCMP consultation
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with these organizations revealed that they lack
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standardized systems for collecting and organizing
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UAP reports. Like the RCMP MP, these local and
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provincial police departments recognize the potential
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benefits of a centralized body for which local
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UAP sightings could be directed. caring about
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it, but it's also like I think the most likely
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place for somebody to call if they saw one. That
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was my exact train of thought. I don't know how
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to contact the Department of Transport or the
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Department of Defense. Exactly. I don't know
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if that's the first place I go to because I'm
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not a huge fan of the RCMP. Also, you're not
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in an RCMP jurisdiction, I'm pretty sure. No,
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I don't think I am, but. At the same time, anyhow,
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that was my train of thought. It makes sense
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they're not keeping track of it because they're
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the police. However, like aviation, yeah, I could
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see it, but that's probably not going to be like
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someone every day being like, I have to report
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this to Cadors. I don't know how you say it.
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Yeah, whatever. It's an acronym, pronounce it
16:57
however you want. It's all coniferous to me.
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Next up, Canadian Space Agency, the CSA. The
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mission of the CSA is to promote the peaceful
17:04
use and development of space to advance the knowledge
17:08
of space through science and to ensure that space
17:10
science and technology provide social and economic
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benefits for Canadians. See right there, you
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need to get the UFOs with these guys because
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then they can pay us and that's an economic benefit
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to Canadians. The CSA is not currently involved
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in any UAP issues. No. Same. However, another
17:47
logical option. I will say that this is also
17:50
taking a twist because I did not expect this
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next group. Environment and Climate Change Canada.
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Okay. Because the Meteorological Services of
17:59
Canada fall under the MSC, which is part of the
18:02
Environment and Climate Change Canada. provides
18:05
weather and environmental forecasting services
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and information to Canadians. Not logical at
18:10
all. Do you think it would come up on the radar
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for you? When you're like, oh, I just saw a UFO.
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Where do I report this? And you're thinking my
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local weatherman. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mike Sobel.
18:23
See, I think he was an anchor, wasn't he? No,
18:25
I think he's the weatherman. OK. This is like
18:29
20 years ago. 40 years ago almost. Ha ha ha.
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The MSC gets many inquiries related to meteorological
18:38
features, weather, water quantity, ice, air quality,
18:42
and climate, as well as the instruments and data
18:44
it manages. Some of these inquiries concern lines
18:47
or clouds that frequently form behind aircrafts.
18:50
Oh, during flight, they definitely get asked
18:52
so much about chemtrails, apparently. Like that
18:55
I could see, but it's crossing the line into
18:57
UFOs and the site. Yeah, those are still IFOs,
19:01
the airplanes putting the chemtrails out. Yeah.
19:05
Not commonly referred to as condensation trails
19:07
or con trails. These con trails are composed
19:09
primarily of water vapors that condense creating
19:11
visible streaks in the sky. This topic frequently
19:13
becomes the subject of speculation and is often
19:16
associated with conspiracy theories that typically
19:18
involve allegations of secret government programs
19:20
such as geoengineering or chemical dispersal
19:23
and occasionally linked the trail to UAPs. I
19:26
find it really interesting they decided to take
19:28
time out of this busy report to acknowledge chemtrails.
19:33
Like one of the few times they thought about
19:34
another conspiracy. They probably had to like
19:37
get each sector's response to what they're also
19:41
saying like give us a summary of what you do
19:43
and what you get as far as UFOs and reporting
19:45
as they're putting it together and they're like
19:47
can you just throw in so people will leave us
19:50
alone about chemtrails? Well, I almost wonder
19:54
if that is the point where they started to take
19:57
that direction, where they're like, hey, you
19:58
have to clip this in the bud, or the conspiracy
20:01
theorists take it and they go a very weird direction.
20:03
I can see it might as well put it in the UFO
20:06
report. They do end up talking about that in
20:08
the UFO report quite extensively, which I quite
20:10
liked. And I'm wondering if that's true. No,
20:14
the um, nipping conspiracy theories early and
20:17
addressing news early and I'm wondering if this
20:20
is where it took that direction. It very well
20:22
could have. While MSC responds to all queries,
20:26
they do not catalog, collect, analyze, or curate
20:28
the numerous requests they receive. Standard
20:30
responses may be used for common questions. ECCC
20:33
also operates a weather application that provides
20:36
the public with scientific explanation for weather
20:38
phenomena. MSC stated that their resources are
20:40
fully committed to the weather forecasting and
20:42
enterprise with no capacity to take on additional
20:44
responsibilities like analyzing boards. Oh man,
20:47
they are strapped right at the edge of their
20:49
financial allowance. At the individual level,
20:53
several journalists and commentators currently
20:55
cover UAP issues in Canada. For example, Daniel
20:59
Otis is a Canadian journalist recognized for
21:01
his reporting over the last few years on UAPs
21:03
and related topics. He has explored various aspects
21:06
of UAPs including government and military investigations
21:09
as well as public perceptions. His articles often
21:12
examine the implications of sightings and the
21:14
growing interest from both the public and authority
21:16
in understanding these phenomena. Christian Page
21:19
is another respected journalist in this field.
21:21
known for his research and writing on UAPs and
21:24
the paranormal. He has contributed to discussions
21:26
regarding the implications of UAP sightings,
21:28
including their potential impact on science,
21:30
government policy, and public perception. Page
21:33
frequently investigates the intersection of technology,
21:36
defense, and the unexplained phenomena observed
21:38
in the skies. He has also advocated for transparency
21:41
and further research into UAPs, emphasizing the
21:43
need for a systematic approach to understanding
21:46
these occurrences. Together, Otis and Page and
21:48
others serve as key figures in the public conversation
21:52
on UAPs, each using their platforms to push for
21:54
greater transparency, accountability, and understanding
21:57
in their public fields. I just found that really
21:59
interesting that they decided to include a few
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journalists. I would be interested to take a
22:03
look at them because I bet you anything they're
22:05
not like Bill Moore who worked for MUFON. Bill
22:09
Moore yet. That's true. It's true. They have
22:13
not had their 1989 Mufon Symposium. They just
22:16
haven't had enough time to mature. That or Mufon
22:21
Symposiums just aren't what they used to be.
22:23
It's true. I don't think they are. Those really
22:26
were the glory days. That is their section on
22:29
the Canadian government's ability to handle a
22:31
UFO report. What do you think? It really took
22:34
a turn at the end there where you don't report
22:37
them. So I'm kind of interested to see where
22:40
this leads us to. I think it is fairly clear
22:42
in the reading. Nobody actually wants to do this.
22:45
The only one who seems to actually do it is the
22:48
Department of Transport because they are required
22:52
to. Yeah, for safety reasons, which makes sense.
22:56
Outside of that nobody seems to want it. Yeah,
22:59
but they're not the logical place to be doing
23:02
it like space They're not dealing with anything
23:05
on earth. So why would they want to? Yeah, exactly
23:09
Meteorological and climate change like why the
23:12
fuck would they deal with it? Like it doesn't
23:15
make sense for them to be dealing with it I don't
23:17
think it's just a matter of do you want to because
23:20
if I worked at any of these places I would be
23:23
like, yeah, I think we should do that and then
23:25
then there'd be a higher up being like, don't
23:28
be ridiculous. We look at climate change. No,
23:31
you need to do your real job. You can't look
23:34
at the UFOs. Exactly. And I'd be like, well,
23:38
I'm pretty sure I could. Just do this. We get
23:41
enough UFO reports and they'd be like, no, you're
23:44
definitely... We're definitely paying you to
23:48
do a different job. That's just how I feel like
23:51
the conversation would go if I worked there.
23:54
I mean, it makes sense in the end. I think it's
23:57
hilarious that the government took time to put
23:59
this all together to look at every single place
24:03
that somebody might report a UFO to. Can you
24:06
imagine how awkward the people at these administrations
24:10
must have felt when they like got called up by
24:13
the chief science advisor's office, Canada. They're
24:16
like, hey, we need to know your reporting structure
24:19
for UFOs and UAVs. You gotta think. And having
24:21
to look into it. And they're like, fuck, we got
24:23
nothing. We got nothing. I mean, and we don't
24:27
want it either. I know. Exactly. You know, you
24:30
got to think there might be more because, you
24:33
know, there are pretty stupid people out there
24:36
and you might think it's just called up like
24:38
the prime minister's office. The government got
24:41
to know they have. I have to report this to the
24:44
government and it's either something like the
24:46
prime minister or it's something like housing
24:49
or something like that. It's like any area. He
24:55
needs a home! It might just be, you know, just
24:58
any government number they can find and they
25:00
call and they're like, hello? Yes? Housing? I
25:03
would like to report a UFO. Hello, yes. Do you
25:06
have a complaint about your job? No, I just want
25:09
to report a UFO. Can you tell me who I could
25:12
speak to? To be fair though, I think specifically
25:16
eliminating those ones eliminates more of the,
25:19
say, crazy people, UFO reported. That's true
25:22
because they can't even logically put it together.
25:25
You need to at least come to a logical location
25:27
for us to take it seriously. Which I find reasonable.
25:32
So we have figured it out. Those are all the
25:35
logical places that you would report it, perhaps.
25:39
And not even logical because most of those places
25:42
don't take it. OK, we've come to this point.
25:44
So that's Canada. And now Canada has decided
25:47
to grace us with a nice introduction to many
25:50
countries for reporting structures. And they
25:52
start off the back into how the US handles it,
25:56
which I was surprised that it was not MUFON.
25:59
In fact, Chelsea, this is extensive, surprising.
26:01
Oh God, I'm nervous for this one. Over the past
26:04
several years. The US makes me nervous now. Yeah.
26:08
To be fair, again, most of this report was written
26:10
pre. Trump. And that guy who has two initials
26:14
for his name. Yeah, that guy. He's so cool. I
26:17
mean, your personality's gotta be great if you're
26:18
using two initials. Anyhow, over the past several
26:21
years, the U .S. government has ramped up its
26:23
efforts to gather and analyze data related to
26:25
UAPs. Increased government interest and commitment
26:27
to the scientific study of UAPs culminated in
26:30
the creation in 2022 of All Domain Anomaly Resolution
26:33
Office, AERO, in the Pentagon. The objective
26:36
of AERO is to investigate government reports
26:38
of UAPs, improve data collection standardized
26:41
reporting requirements and mitigate the potential
26:43
threat to safety and security posed by UAPs.
26:46
Its mission is to, quote, minimize technical
26:49
and intelligence surprise by synchronizing scientific
26:52
intelligence and operational detection, identification,
26:56
attribution, and mitigation of identified anomalous
27:00
phenomena in the vicinity of national security
27:02
areas, end quote. In February 2024, Arrow released
27:06
volume one of two of a study that reviews all
27:09
U .S. government investigative efforts and programs
27:11
on UAPs from 45 to the present. And this kind
27:14
of flew under the radar for me. This seems like
27:17
a lot bigger than I thought it. Yeah, I guess
27:19
so. I mean, I'm not looking at like all of this
27:22
stuff though when it comes to UFOs. I feel like
27:26
this is completely out of the range of where
27:29
I pay attention to. Which is 25, 40 years ago.
27:32
Yes. Yes. It was a beautiful time back then.
27:38
On June 1, 2024, Aero released its second report
27:41
on 757 UAP reports from May 1, 2023 to June 1,
27:46
2024, as of the publishing date. 174 cases were
27:49
resolved and found to be objects such as balloons,
27:52
birds, unmanned aerial systems, satellites, and
27:55
aircrafts. Of the remaining unresolved cases,
27:57
Aero continues to collect and analyze the information
27:59
by working with military and technical partners.
28:02
Aero underscores that to date, they have discovered
28:04
no evidence of extraterrestrial beings, activity,
28:07
or technology. In parallel, the National Aeronautics
28:10
and Space Administration, NASA, undertook an
28:13
independent study to evaluate how it can contribute
28:15
to ongoing government effort. The report released
28:17
in September of 2023, focused on how best to
28:20
collect future UAP data to advance their scientific
28:23
study. It also defines a multi -faceted approach
28:26
to the scientific study of UAPs, acknowledging
28:28
the need for collaboration across different sectors
28:31
and disciplines. Similar to the AERO report,
28:34
the independent study team's review of unclassified
28:36
government documents found no evidence of extracurricular
28:38
activity. Following the release of the report,
28:41
NASA announced the creation of the position of
28:43
Director of Unidentified Phenomenal Research
28:46
further study and coordinate research efforts.
28:48
I did not know that was a position. I feel like
28:51
I'm directly qualified for this position probably.
28:56
What was it again? I'm gonna apply right now.
28:58
Director of Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena
29:01
Research. I'm applying right now. I'm just looking
29:04
for the job posting. Okay, I think it's... Oh
29:08
no, Mark McHenry. He was appointed in September
29:12
2023. What a cool job. Can you imagine dinner
29:16
parties. I thought that guy's cool. And apparently
29:19
this was all brought on by Biden. So the incursion
29:22
of four high -altitude balloons here in early
29:24
2023 prompted President Biden to ask the U .S.
29:27
intelligence community to take a closer look
29:28
at the UAP issue. He directed an interagency
29:31
team to study the broader policy implications
29:33
for detection, analysis, and disposition of unidentified
29:38
area phenomena that pose either safety or security
29:41
risks. The president also announced his staff
29:44
would engage with their relevant foreign counterparts
29:47
in order to share information and try to gain
29:49
their perspectives as well. Do you think that
29:51
he still holds it or do you think he was ex?
29:54
Biden? No. Mark McKinney just from that how to
29:59
pronounce the last thing I'm gonna say he's still
30:01
there cuz nobody wants that like call him into
30:03
their office Lastly the safe airspace for Americans
30:09
act was introduced in January of 2012 or the
30:12
bill proposes that Federal Aviation Administration,
30:15
FAA, develop procedures for reporting, collecting,
30:17
storing, investigating, and analyzing UAP incidents.
30:20
The legislation also seeks to protect witnesses
30:22
who report sightings of UAPs from adverse consequences
30:25
such as medical disqualification or reprisals
30:28
from employers or the government based solely
30:30
on their reporting of UAPs. That's the end of
30:32
this portion. That last part is a big deal because
30:37
we've actually seen in a few cases that we've
30:40
looked at where people, first off, don't go public
30:43
with their case because they're worried about
30:45
their job. And then it's with Rendlesham Forest.
30:48
There's at least one serviceman who can't see
30:50
his record, correct? Like his medical record?
30:53
Right, so he wasn't covered for his medical issues
30:57
that came up in conjunction with it because they
31:00
blocked out the record so he couldn't prove that
31:03
he... What was it that he incurred this happened
31:06
to him while he was on duty? I had no idea. In
31:10
my mind, the Republicans have just taken the
31:13
UFO. Like it's their thing. the democrats have
31:15
just ignored it but apparently biden was actually
31:18
a really good ufo president that's good i did
31:21
not know that because he made nasa do that one
31:24
yeah i'm happy with it anyhow next up is mexico
31:32
it is not as extensive most reports of uap sightings
31:35
in mexico come through media outlets independent
31:38
researchers and social media which play a significant
31:41
role in documenting and spreading information
31:42
about such events. In September of 2023, the
31:45
Mexican Congress held hearings on UAPs, including
31:48
a presentation on mummified bodies of extraterrestrials.
31:51
This evidence was later debunked by Mexican scientists.
31:54
Spoiler alert for when we get to that episode.
31:57
You were aware of that going on, right, Chelsea?
31:59
They were looking at that Nazca Line body? Vaguely.
32:02
I didn't follow it closely. No, and we'll have
32:04
to do that episode at some point. Yeah. Well,
32:07
it's just ruined now. Yeah. Don't worry, nobody
32:10
listens past the 20 -minute mark, I'm sure. Next
32:15
up, Chile. The Sifa section for the study of
32:19
anomalous aerial phenomena, which is not surprisingly
32:23
what the acronym should say, but I'm not saying
32:25
the Spanish version. Oh, that's too bad. That
32:29
was beautiful, thank you. Perfect. Didn't even
32:36
have to roll an R. I know. Yours says your Spanish
32:40
is too advanced. I speak the pure form of Spanish,
32:45
closer to German. It serves as the official body
32:51
in Chile responsible for collecting, analyzing,
32:53
and scientifically studying UAPs. It operates
32:56
within the General Directive of Civil Aeronautics,
32:59
DGAC, of the Chilean Air Force. The primary mission
33:02
of CFA is to gather information on UAPs ported
33:05
by airline crews or the general public. This
33:07
information is analyzed to assess any potential
33:09
risk to the safety of air operations and national
33:12
security. One notable aspect of CFA's operation
33:15
is its commitment to transparency. The organization
33:18
makes its findings and information regarding
33:20
UAPs available to the public, aiming to foster
33:23
openness and understanding of these phenomena.
33:26
CFA publishes monthly report detailing the cases
33:28
it has investigated and closed allowing interested
33:32
individuals to stay informed about its activity.
33:34
That's kind of surprising that they're one of
33:36
like the more advanced ones but also thinking
33:39
about it like Chile separated from most its neighbors
33:42
by like two rugged to pass over mountains. Right
33:46
I forgot about that. If they're going to be invaded
33:48
it's probably by air. and or c but like you bring
33:52
up a super good point far away for everybody
33:56
yeah but the other way that's a very good point
33:58
yeah that also leads me to my next point is i
34:01
wonder what country is the most advanced in their
34:05
studies in uaps it's probably china china's in
34:08
here we will get to them But I think this next
34:11
one's going to be up there in the running, and
34:12
that is France. If I was to guess, it probably
34:15
would have been one of my top 10. France's government
34:18
funded organization charged with managing UAP
34:21
reports is housed within its space agency CNES,
34:25
the Center National. or National Center for Space
34:30
Studies. That's probably why... That's where
34:33
Jacques Vallée was, yeah. That's not what I was
34:35
going to say, but that's probably why Canada
34:38
was like, we don't look at anything that's not
34:40
space because France, that's their thing, space.
34:44
The CNES office called Gaipan, which I'm not
34:48
even going to attempt. Like they don't even have
34:50
the French version. I think I had to attempt
34:51
it. That stands for the Unidentified Aerospace
34:55
Phenomena Research and Information Group has
34:58
been studying UAPs since 1977. Its mission is
35:03
to collect, investigate, and archive UAP reports
35:06
and make its findings available to the public.
35:08
By anonymizing sightings, GAPAN allows further
35:12
study of observed phenomena by external scientific
35:15
teams. The principles guiding GAPAN include low
35:17
operational public service, respect for witnesses,
35:20
and a commitment to transparency, neutrality,
35:23
and objective investigation. GAYPAN has a full
35:26
team of three full -time employees. I'm pleased
35:33
to manage the reporting process. Members of the
35:36
public can file a UAP siting report through a
35:38
forum that is available online. Reports are investigated
35:41
through the efforts of over 20 trained volunteers
35:44
throughout France. GAYPAN has a large number
35:47
of government partners including the Military,
35:49
Civil Aviation, Meteorological Office, Alternative
35:52
Energies and Atomic Energy Commission, and the
35:55
French National Police, among others. Okay. and
35:58
external contacts from complementary fields including
36:01
astronomy, aeronautics, meteorology, psychology,
36:04
imaging, drone technology, and electromagnetism
36:06
as many more. GAYPAN's steering committee is
36:10
chaired by an established aerospace expert and
36:13
includes representatives of the country's civil
36:15
and military authority. The steering committee's
36:17
mission is to analyze the performance of GAYPAN
36:19
and make recommendations. The French organization
36:22
Misunderstandings of the Sky also receives UIP
36:25
sightings from GAYPAN and the public. This organization
36:28
helps educate the public about the mischaracterization
36:31
of UAPs. While it is difficult to establish a
36:33
direct causal relationship between these investigative
36:37
efforts and changes in public perspective, there
36:39
are indications that in France, UAP -related
36:42
conspiracies are decreasing and are less prevalent
36:44
compared with other countries. Which, pairing
36:48
that with knowing the outcomes of this report,
36:51
you can see what they're trying to emulate. public
36:57
and meet their goal. Do you think it's like to
36:59
around elementary schools and do presentations,
37:02
commercials? I would be really curious, actually.
37:05
There's town crier at UFOs. There's no longer
37:09
a stigma. Read all about it. No, that's not the
37:13
town crier. But how would they achieve that?
37:16
I wonder. Yeah, Chelsea, you did the 1920s paper
37:19
boy routine. Yeah, I did. I did do that. They're
37:22
very close. It's like, coniferous and coniferous.
37:25
Yeah, I'm just curious though, like how would
37:28
they achieve that? And I'm only thinking like
37:32
commercials, maybe like ads on Prime, maybe?
37:36
I mean, yeah, that's a fair point. Before you
37:39
watch the boys, you need to know that this UFOF
37:42
that was spotted in your area has been debunked.
37:45
It also, it blows me away that there are like
37:48
three paid people in all of France and they have
37:51
a robust UAP system that is wanted to be emulated.
37:56
Well, they probably offload a lot, right? It
37:59
sounds like it. Yeah. Hmm. Okay. What's the next
38:02
one? Germany. Germany. Yeah. The purest of languages.
38:07
For over 50 years. Germany's contact point for
38:10
UAP reporting has been the GEP. Society for Research
38:14
into the UFO Phenomena, a Ludenscheid -based
38:17
non -profit citizen science organization. The
38:21
GEP receives public reports of UAP sightings
38:23
and makes its findings public. Since 1980, it
38:26
has published its findings in its bi -monthly
38:28
journal Führer UFO Forschung, Journal of UFO
38:31
Research. According to GEP's annual report, they
38:34
have received an average of 300 per year from
38:36
2022 to 2024. Over 90 % of reports received have
38:40
been explained as conventional cases. causes
38:43
with the remainder being unexplained due to efficient
38:45
data. Next up, Italy. Italy has two well -known
38:49
private non -profit UAPs, the CUN, National Ufological
38:53
Center, and CISU, the Italian Center for Ufological
38:57
Studies. They were established in 65 and 85 respectively.
39:00
Both are involved in collecting and cataloging
39:03
testimonies of UAP sightings and Republic reporting.
39:06
The two organizations are also provided access
39:09
to the Italian Ministry of Defense's unclassified
39:12
UAP investigation, which are carried out by the
39:14
Italian Air Force, which clearly shows that there
39:17
was another group they should have talked to,
39:19
the Ministry of Defense's UAP investigations
39:21
reporting. Yeah. Next up, UK. The United Kingdom
39:25
Ministry of Defense was in charge from 1950 to
39:28
2009. From the outset, the Ministry of Defense
39:31
set up a working group under its chief science
39:33
advisor to study the UFO phenomena. In June 1951,
39:37
the working group concluded that UFO sightings
39:39
could be explained by astronomical or meteorological
39:42
phenomena, misidentification of aircraft, balloons,
39:44
birds, optical illusions, and psychological delusions
39:47
and deliberate hoaxes. It recommended that, quote,
39:50
no further investigation of reported mysterious
39:52
aerial phenomena be undertaken unless and until
39:55
some material evidence becomes available." End
39:57
quote. Nonetheless, the Ministry of Defense kept
39:59
a UFO hotline and email address as well as a
40:02
small team of investigators. It published annual
40:04
reports from 97 to 2009, listing dates, times,
40:08
locations, and brief descriptions of all UFO
40:09
sightings. The Ministry of Defense closed its
40:11
program in 2009. Since then, UAP sightings in
40:14
the UK can be reported to local parties or associations
40:17
like the British UFO Research Association, Buflora.
40:20
Which is a great acronym, Bufora. Yeah, we heard
40:24
it on the last one, right? Next up, surprisingly
40:26
enough, is the European Union, which, might surprise
40:30
you, has nothing. As an entity, the European
40:36
Commission considers that the area of UAPs is
40:39
under the jurisdiction of the Member States,
40:41
which allows them to address these phenomena
40:43
according to their national security. Makes a
40:45
lot of sense. Yeah. Next up, Japan. According
40:49
to media sources, Japan's defense minister instructed
40:52
the Japanese defense forces in 2020 to record
40:56
and photograph any object they encounter or that
40:58
enters Japanese airspace and to take steps for
41:01
the necessary analysis of those sightings. This
41:04
directive underscores the importance placed on
41:06
monitoring and documenting UAPs by the Japanese
41:08
government, as well as the recognition of the
41:10
need for thorough analysis and investigation
41:13
including information provided by the public.
41:15
The Japanese military announced in February 2023
41:18
a new policy to consider unidentified drones
41:20
as legitimate targets to be shot down. It does
41:23
make a lot of sense that they want to take UAP
41:26
seriously because they do worry about China a
41:29
lot and like anything coming in the sky to their
41:33
island could be coming from China. Yeah. And
41:36
finally, we're going to finish off with China
41:38
here. The rise of UAP research in China coincided
41:42
with the country's reform period in the late
41:44
1970s. As part of the first wave of reforms,
41:47
public interest in UAPs began to emerge. In September
41:50
of 1979, students in Wuhan University established
41:53
the China UFO Enthusiast Liaison Office. which
41:57
later evolved into the China UFO Research Association.
42:00
The association expanded, opening branches in
42:02
other cities. The Journal of UFO Research, founded
42:05
in 1981 in Lanzhou by the Gansu People's Publishing
42:09
House, became the most widely read UAP research
42:12
magazine in Asia. Following the success of the
42:14
China UFO Research Association, several localized
42:17
societies were established, including the Beijing
42:19
UFO Society, which was founded in 1984. During
42:23
the 1990s, interest in UAPs and extraterrestrial
42:25
life surged, as state media began covering the
42:28
topic and publishing restrictions were relaxed.
42:31
However, the China UFO Research Association disbanded
42:34
recently. China has a dedicated task force within
42:37
the People's Liberation Army to investigate the
42:40
unidentified aerial phenomenon. This task force
42:43
employs a multi -tiered reporting system to manage
42:46
UAP sites, collecting data from military radar
42:49
stations, Air Force pilots, police stations.
42:51
Weather stations and observatories affiliated
42:54
with the Chinese Academy of Science reports undergo
42:56
preliminary analysis of regional military command
42:59
or being centralized in a national database.
43:01
To handle the vast amount of data and identify
43:04
patterns, the PLA, which I think is the People
43:08
Liberation Army, utilizes artificial intelligence
43:11
to assess the nature and potential threat level
43:14
of these phenomena. This approach enables the
43:16
PLA to rapidly determine whether observed objects
43:19
are foreign aircrafts, natural occurrences, or
43:23
potentially otherworldly origins. Apparently
43:25
they're the only ones using the AI. That's crazy.
43:28
Yeah. Yeah, they take it seriously. I don't know
43:31
if AI is taking it seriously. Really? Because
43:34
they had a whole section in this report about
43:36
using AI. I mean, fair enough. But yeah, I'll
43:39
see that is that's more than I knew before about
43:42
many countries hoarding systems, including our
43:44
own. That was quite a lot of information to take
43:47
in. Is that the end of the episode? That is the
43:49
well, sorry, that's the end of my script. I will
43:51
say it that way. Based on this, Taylor, well
43:55
not necessarily based on this. Where is the best
43:59
place to report a UFO? CADOR? CADERS? In Canada?
44:04
Yeah. I think it's MUFON. This was just covering
44:06
the government side of it. Do you think it's
44:08
still MUFON? If you want a government response,
44:11
I do think it is probably CADORS. I think. You
44:15
don't think? Government response is probably
44:17
not what you're looking for. So it is probably.
44:21
or your local chapter of MUFON, whatever that
44:24
may be. I think they stretch fairly worldwide.
44:28
Yeah, they're in a lot of places. I don't think
44:31
it's everywhere, but they are in a lot of places.
44:34
Yeah, I know we do have them in Canada as well.
44:37
And even with the Bill Moore thing. And what
44:42
was the military people? Three. Doty? The birds?
44:49
The Florida one. Oh, what was his name? I can't
44:54
remember off the top of my head. Even with that
44:56
one Florida guy, and I know you have so many
44:59
Florida guys going on down there, you won't know
45:02
who it is because they're all fucking insane.
45:06
Golf Breeze, I can't remember his name off the
45:08
top of my head. Yeah, yeah, Golf Breeze, that
45:10
was the one. Okay, so we're thinking Mufon is
45:14
the best place. We'll link up, I think, Cadors
45:17
in this if you want to make a report and Mufon,
45:21
just in case, because Cadors as well, you can
45:23
take a look through the reports. So we should
45:25
probably link those up in the episode. Super
45:28
informative. I can't believe that our government
45:30
put that out. I can't believe how many governments
45:33
actually, I wonder if people actually realize
45:36
that governments are like looking into these
45:39
things and tracking them. Yeah, I mean, people
45:41
like to put a lot of nefariousness behind it
45:44
or think about it as wasted money. But it is
45:47
something I, it's something that should be studied.
45:50
But then there's a whole other, I agree, I 100
45:53
% agree. I think there's a whole other sector
45:56
with, I don't know, I get to start a poll, a
45:59
personal poll with everyone. come into contact
46:02
with them, whether they think it's a waste of
46:04
money to study UFOs within the government, even
46:07
if it's just three people. The people that listen
46:10
to our show are going to a ton of dinner parties,
46:13
and I think they should be pleasing me. Oh yeah,
46:16
we so should be. Yeah, I'm going to start asking
46:19
people because I think there's a fair amount
46:23
of people that would think that, you know, even
46:26
three people for the whole country would be fair,
46:29
but The other thing, France does it robustly
46:32
and they employ three people. Exactly, exactly.
46:36
And it's France. The other thing that I wanted
46:39
to ask was, oh, no, it's slipping away. I forgot.
46:45
Well, hey, that's OK, because I'm sure we're
46:47
at a pretty good time at this point. I have been
46:50
T here with C. We are JTT Fringe. Thank you all
46:53
for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye.