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The ADHD Bedtime Battle: Why Your Child Won’t Sleep (and How to Finally Fix It) · Raising ADHD: Real Talk For Parents & Educators

• 0:00
  Apryl: It's 10 47 p.m.
• 0:01
  Apryl: The lights are low, but your kid is still awake.
• 0:06
  Apryl: You've read the bedtime stories, you've checked on them twice, you've got the water, you've done all the things, and they're still awake, asking for another drink, another story, another reason to stay up.
• 0:16
  Apryl: You know tomorrow morning is going to be a nightmare.
• 0:19
  Apryl: The wake up, the cries, the meltdowns, and you can't help but wonder, as you're super irritated and annoyed, why won't my child sleep?
• 0:30
  Apryl: Welcome to Raising ADHD, the podcast for parents and teachers raising ADHD kids.
• 0:36
  Apryl: If you've ever felt frustrated, overwhelmed, or just unsure what to do next, you're not alone.
• 0:42
  Apryl: I'm April Bradford, a former teacher and ADHD mom, and alongside my husband, Dr.
• 0:48
  Apryl: Brian Bradford, a child and adolescent psychiatrist, we're here to give you the clarity, strategies, and support you've been looking for.
• 0:55
  Apryl: Every week we break down the misconceptions, answer your biggest questions, and share real tools you can use right away at home and in the classroom.
• 1:05
  Apryl: So if you're ready to feel more confident and less overwhelmed, you're in the right place.
• 1:09
  Apryl: Hey there, welcome back to Raising ADHD.
• 1:12
  Apryl: I'm April Bradford, and here with me, as always, is my husband, Dr.
• 1:17
  Apryl: Brian Bradford.
• 1:18
  Apryl: Hey Brian.
• 1:19
  Brian: Hey, hey April, hey everyone.
• 1:21
  Brian: And tonight we're gonna be talking about something that might be stealing more peace from ADHD families than anything else, and that is sleep.
• 1:30
  Apryl: Yes, we have had these issues in our home.
• 1:32
  Apryl: This and I'm guessing if you're listening to this, it's not something surprising to you either.
• 1:37
  Apryl: Because if your ADHD kiddo struggles to fall asleep, stay asleep, or wake up ready for the day, sleep has definitely been an issue in our home.
• 1:47
  Apryl: It's not every night, but there are some nights.
• 1:49
  Apryl: Like 1 a.m., our daughter is still awake.
• 1:53
  Apryl: So if you've had sleep issues in your home, I promise you, you are not alone.
• 1:58
  Apryl: And actually, up to 70% of children with ADHD experience sleep problems.
• 2:04
  Apryl: So seven out of ten families of ADHD kiddos are fighting this same fight.
• 2:10
  Brian: Just think about that.
• 2:10
  Brian: Seven out of ten, that is a wild stat in the psych world.
• 2:14
  Brian: That's almost unheard of for comorbidity, for insomnia, and another psych disorder, in this case, ADHD.
• 2:20
  Brian: That's that's just an outrageous number.
• 2:22
  Apryl: Yeah, that's a lot.
• 2:24
  Apryl: So again, you're not alone.
• 2:26
  Apryl: So, Brian, let's start with you telling us what's really going on here.
• 2:32
  Apryl: Because obviously it's not just bad bedtime habits.
• 2:34
  Apryl: Because our daughter, like I said, there are nights that she's up to like 1 a.m., but we've done our regular routine, the bedtime, the turning the lights down low, all of the things.
• 2:44
  Apryl: So what's really happening here?
• 2:47
  Brian: Right.
• 2:47
  Brian: So with ADHD, and we've already talked about this, their brains are wired differently.
• 2:53
  Brian: And so research shows that there's actually a delayed melatonin release, which is the sleep hormone, that doesn't kick in until almost an hour later than the neurotypical kids.
• 3:04
  Brian: So you can view this as ADHD kids have a circadian rhythm that's an their internal clock that's off schedule, especially if you're not ADHD, it's almost for surely off-schedule from yours.
• 3:17
  Apryl: So I think one thing that people think when they hear like sleep and sleep issues with kids, it's like, oh, it must be the medicine.
• 3:23
  Apryl: Because, you know, it's we hear that, that's a side effect of the medicine.
• 3:28
  Apryl: But you're saying that even without medicine, even if kids aren't taking the stimulants, like they still it's not just the medicine, they still have issues sleeping.
• 3:38
  Brian: Yes.
• 3:38
  Brian: So just neurobiologically, ADHD people have a very high tendency to have difficulty with sleep, regardless of the meds.
• 3:46
  Brian: And if you take the meds during the week and it's like, man, my child can't sleep, and then during the weekend, you don't give them the meds and they can sleep, that may or may not still be the medicine that could just be I'm now in a different social atmosphere and now I'm sleeping.
• 4:00
  Apryl: Or I haven't slept all week and I'm really tired.
• 4:02
  Brian: Yes.
• 4:03
  Apryl: Okay, so let's first talk about what this actually looks like in real life, besides, you know, just they can't sleep at night.
• 4:09
  Apryl: How does how is this affecting them in their day and at school and at home and all of those things?
• 4:14
  Brian: Right.
• 4:15
  Brian: So this is one of those things where teachers are gonna notice it and they may or may not notice like the actual fatigue or the tiredness, but they will notice something.
• 4:23
  Brian: Oftentimes, though, they'll notice yawning or or zoning out or more fidgeting than usual.
• 4:29
  Brian: And if your your teacher calls and says, Hey, your child seems to the the meds don't seem to be quite working like they have been.
• 4:37
  Brian: I mean, it's possible the meds aren't working, but it's also possible that they've missed out on sleep and now they're having what we've kind of been referring to as super ADHD, which is ADHD plus tiredness is extreme.
• 4:49
  Apryl: Yeah, you mentioned that in one of our former episodes, that just not getting sleep, people, neurotypical people not getting sleep, can like be like signs of like symptoms of ADHD that you experience because it's so hard to function and focus when you're not getting enough sleep.
• 5:05
  Brian: Absolutely.
• 5:06
  Brian: Yeah.
• 5:06
  Brian: So insomnia can already look like ADHD during the day and your executive functioning is going to decrease, your attention's gonna decrease.
• 5:14
  Brian: It can also lead to some hyperactivity.
• 5:16
  Brian: You can have some more fidgeting and more just hyperactivity when you're tired.
• 5:21
  Apryl: Okay.
• 5:21
  Apryl: So that's one thing.
• 5:23
  Apryl: If your teacher is, you know, saying, Hey, I'm noticing this, and you're like, oh, isn't the medicine?
• 5:28
  Apryl: Well, maybe it's sleep, so check that.
• 5:30
  Brian: Right.
• 5:30
  Brian: And there was even a study that found that educators were three times more likely to report that students with ADHD look like they're tired in class.
• 5:38
  Apryl: That's so interesting.
• 5:40
  Apryl: Because usually they're like hyper.
• 5:43
  Brian: Yeah, you view this as like the hyperactive, and it's like, oh, well, when you're hyper, it's because you have a lot of energy and you're wired and you're you're super active, but you could be tired and hyperactive.
• 5:52
  Brian: Tired, tired and distracted.
• 5:54
  Apryl: Yes.
• 5:55
  Apryl: Yeah.
• 5:55
  Apryl: Okay, so obviously at home, what this is gonna look like is your mornings are gonna be a lot rougher.
• 6:02
  Apryl: You're gonna have those meltdowns over the socks and the lost backpack, and then throw in siblings, and it just makes it all worse.
• 6:11
  Apryl: We know that I mean, even as adults, neurotypical or not, when you're tired, life is just harder.
• 6:19
  Brian: Yeah, and I mean your circuit and rhythm's already off an hour, you're having an hour harder time waking up, despite the fact that you're waking up at the same time as everybody else in the family.
• 6:28
  Brian: Yeah.
• 6:29
  Brian: Especially that first hour is gonna be really rough.
• 6:31
  Apryl: Yeah, and what I actually found very interesting too is that even just two or more night wakings, so not, you know, staying up, but like waking in the night, because that can be an issue as well, is that those night wakings can drop a child's next day math performance by half a standard deviation.
• 6:49
  Brian: Yeah, that's massive.
• 6:50
  Brian: That's yeah, that's massive.
• 6:53
  Apryl: Yeah.
• 6:53
  Apryl: So, you know, like when you're getting those emails from the teacher, like maybe reflect like, how did last night go?
• 7:00
  Apryl: Maybe it's not medicine.
• 7:02
  Apryl: Pay attention to those things.
• 7:04
  Apryl: I think that's one thing when you have a child with ADHD is making sure that you're not like writing down anecdotal notes, you can, but like making mental note of things like this, like, oh, they had a terrible night's sleep last night.
• 7:16
  Apryl: Oh, when the teacher emails, that could just pay attention to those little things because there's a lot of things that go into ADHD that can affect the day for sure.
• 7:27
  Brian: Right.
• 7:27
  Brian: And this is also where sometimes it is meds, but sometimes it's not.
• 7:32
  Brian: And this is one of those times to note, like it may not be the meds.
• 7:36
  Apryl: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:37
  Apryl: So talking about those mornings and stuff, let's continue on.
• 7:41
  Apryl: Like, how does this affect families?
• 7:44
  Apryl: This can definitely be have a big effect on the family when everyone's tired.
• 7:48
  Apryl: It makes the whole family tired.
• 7:51
  Apryl: So when the child doesn't sleep, who else doesn't sleep?
• 7:55
  Brian: Yeah, the parents.
• 7:56
  Brian: The parents, yeah.
• 7:57
  Brian: This is something that goes on in our own family, and I bet for our listeners, it's a large majority of them like my I can totally relate.
• 8:03
  Apryl: Yeah, and these are the nights too that I think well, I know we snap.
• 8:08
  Apryl: It's like, just go to bed.
• 8:10
  Apryl: I don't care what you do, just go to sleep.
• 8:13
  Brian: Right.
• 8:13
  Brian: And not sleeping child leads to a tired parent, which leads to more anger with a child who's now struggling with sleep, you know, biologically and physiologically, they've got a tired parent.
• 8:26
  Apryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:26
  Apryl: Yeah, it's just has a bad effect all the way around.
• 8:30
  Apryl: And there's actually data behind this too.
• 8:32
  Apryl: Studies actually show that when kids who with ADHD sleep poorly, every parent in those households experience sleep disruption.
• 8:40
  Apryl: Like no-brainer.
• 8:41
  Apryl: I I don't know why anybody even did a study on that.
• 8:43
  Apryl: It's like, duh.
• 8:44
  Brian: What if the parents are tired?
• 8:46
  Brian: It turns out when your child isn't sleeping.
• 8:48
  Apryl: Yeah, when the when the teacher reported that the kids were child, they also looked at the parents and went, whoa.
• 8:53
  Brian: Yeah.
• 8:53
  Brian: They called them in for parent-teacher conference, like, hey, your child's tired.
• 8:56
  Brian: Oh, really?
• 8:57
  Brian: Sure.
• 8:59
  Apryl: So it just obviously, you know, not having sleep, it leads to more stress, more tension, and more burnout.
• 9:04
  Apryl: And like you said in episode number one, the divorce rates of parents with kids with ADHD go up.
• 9:12
  Apryl: I can't remember the statistic, but it was I can't remember either.
• 9:15
  Brian: It's like 50%.
• 9:16
  Apryl: Yeah, it was pretty high.
• 9:17
  Apryl: Yeah, it was very high.
• 9:18
  Apryl: And so when you think about it, you know, just just not getting sleep alone can be stress on a marriage.
• 9:25
  Apryl: So it's things like this that just make the household hard, make the next day hard.
• 9:31
  Apryl: Everything is hard and everyone's trapped in this loop.
• 9:34
  Apryl: We know that it's hard.
• 9:36
  Apryl: So let's talk about some solutions that can actually help, because there is things that help.
• 9:42
  Apryl: I feel like we've I mean, there are some nights that are a little rough, but for the most part, I feel like we've got way better, yeah.
• 9:47
  Apryl: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:48
  Apryl: And it starts with something as simple as routine.
• 9:51
  Apryl: That's like the number one thing is getting a routine in place.
• 9:55
  Apryl: Um, Brian, do you want to talk about routine or do you want me to?
• 9:59
  Brian: Yeah, so one thing with routine is even in adults without ADHD, when we do therapy and for insomnia, like the CBTI you've probably heard about.
• 10:08
  Apryl: No, can you wait?
• 10:08
  Apryl: Tell us what CBTI is for those of us who have not.
• 10:11
  Brian: Cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, which is a specific type of therapy that they've introduced, specific for insomnia, and it's it's very effective.
• 10:20
  Brian: It's it's one of our most effective therapies.
• 10:23
  Brian: But one one thing with this is it's focusing on routine and everything scheduled, and it's okay, you're gonna go to bed at this time, you're gonna do exactly this, and it works.
• 10:35
  Brian: It works without ADHD.
• 10:36
  Brian: This same type of strategy will work with ADHD.
• 10:39
  Apryl: I'm just gonna kind of walk through some of the stuff that we've done at home.
• 10:43
  Apryl: This is research-based, science-backed as well.
• 10:47
  Apryl: Um, that definitely helps.
• 10:48
  Apryl: But number one, which this is one of those things that like it it just throws me like Brian and his mom are both like this.
• 10:59
  Apryl: Like they leave all the lights on at night, and I'm and I'll walk in like if I'm gone, and I'm like you can't see if the lights are out.
• 11:06
  Apryl: Well, I'm like, what the freak?
• 11:08
  Apryl: It's eight o'clock at night.
• 11:09
  Apryl: Why do we have every light on in the house?
• 11:11
  Apryl: And I'm like, we need to turn the lights on.
• 11:14
  Apryl: I am like, as soon as dinner's over, I am turning off all the lights.
• 11:17
  Apryl: We have the under cabinet kitchen lights, and so I just have those are the only lights on, and then the lamp on in the living room, and that alone helps the body to recognize it's time to start slowing down.
• 11:30
  Apryl: And so, number one, turning down the lights um earlier on, so that your child's body starts to realize okay, it's time to wind down.
• 11:42
  Apryl: And research shows that doing a 30 to 60 minute wind down routine, same time, same steps, every single night can dramatically improve the sleep quality in ADHD kids.
• 11:56
  Apryl: So, whatever it is for you, it does not have to be the same.
• 11:59
  Apryl: A lot of people talk about bath and things like that.
• 12:01
  Apryl: It can be, but whatever works for you and your family, that's always gonna be the best thing.
• 12:07
  Apryl: Don't try to force something that does not work for you and your family.
• 12:09
  Apryl: But 30 to 60 minutes of wind downs and do the same routine.
• 12:14
  Apryl: So think calm, repetitive, and sensory safe steps.
• 12:19
  Apryl: So if you want to do a bath, you can do a bath.
• 12:21
  Apryl: Brushing teeth, obviously, doing a short story, and then lights out.
• 12:26
  Apryl: And like I said, yes, that means getting those lights dimmed an hour before bed.
• 12:31
  Apryl: Do not leave every single light on in the house because guess what?
• 12:36
  Apryl: No one, no one can calm down with that.
• 12:39
  Apryl: And the light suppresses your melatonin, which we want melatonin to help fall asleep.
• 12:44
  Brian: Right.
• 12:44
  Brian: And one of the biggest sources of light, especially the teens, but I mean it could be across the spectrum, is the screens.
• 12:51
  Brian: These screens release the exact type of light that deactivates our melatonin and wakes us up, which is why with the first thing in the morning when you grab your phone, it's like, man, now I'm awake because I've been staring at this bright light.
• 13:02
  Brian: I mean, it's it's toxic for bedtime.
• 13:05
  Brian: So get the devices out of the bedroom.
• 13:07
  Brian: Don't let your teens fall asleep talking on the phone or playing games on the phone.
• 13:13
  Brian: This is this is gonna keep them awake all night.
• 13:15
  Apryl: Yeah, for when we're talking teens and tweens, those that have um their own electronic devices, having a home space for them where it's like, okay, we check in our devices at this time every single night, that it can be a charger where they're just plugged in and that's where they go.
• 13:34
  Apryl: And then it's like that time of night.
• 13:35
  Apryl: And then obviously putting in in place like those parental locks of okay, screen time is shut down at this time, internet shuts down at this time on these devices, you can put those kind of things in place as well.
• 13:47
  Brian: Right.
• 13:48
  Brian: And when we talk about like safety with iPhones, I mean, so many people are focused on, oh, my child, you know, what social media are they on, what websites are they on.
• 13:56
  Brian: But you need to also see what time they're on, because for a healthy life, doing a 2 a.m.
• 14:02
  Brian: text to a friend is not healthy.
• 14:04
  Apryl: No.
• 14:04
  Brian: Regardless of what the content is of the text, it's the time of the text.
• 14:08
  Apryl: No, I mean, for anyone, adults, like we shouldn't be.
• 14:11
  Apryl: I think that's this is a whole nother episode for sure, is talking about screen time and all of the social effects that that has on it.
• 14:20
  Brian: Regardless of screen time, it should not be at 2 a.m.
• 14:22
  Brian: though.
• 14:22
  Apryl: Yeah.
• 14:22
  Apryl: So just having that place where it's like, nope, internet goes down, everything goes down, phones go down this time.
• 14:29
  Apryl: And then obviously things like I'm sure if you're listening to this podcast, you probably know this, but um, sensory regulation, weighted blankets can help with that sensory regulation, and that can help calm and help them fall asleep as well.
• 14:45
  Brian: Right.
• 14:45
  Brian: And I know we already all know this, but sleep hygiene of your room needs to be the right temperature, your lights need to be out, your environment needs to feel safe.
• 14:56
  Brian: They need to be able to, if they close the door to feel safe, or whatever it is to feel safe.
• 15:01
  Brian: And it also needs to be quiet.
• 15:03
  Brian: I mean, you can't have it right next to the home theater system that's blurring.
• 15:07
  Brian: Like just kind of the basics quiet, cool, dark, and safe.
• 15:13
  Apryl: Yes.
• 15:13
  Apryl: And a few other things that can help too.
• 15:16
  Apryl: I will read to our daughter, or we'll lay in bed together, and I'll read my book, and she'll read her book, and then it's like, okay, lights out.
• 15:23
  Apryl: But there are nights, which I'm sure you all have experienced this, but you can tell their little brains are just still like just going 100 miles an hour.
• 15:33
  Apryl: Like my daughter will like say things to me, like, I'm like, holy smokes.
• 15:37
  Apryl: Like she went to the zoo the other day, and then she started talking to me about the animals that she saw at the zoo.
• 15:42
  Apryl: She hadn't told me this all day long, but then it's quiet.
• 15:45
  Apryl: We're laying there, and all of a sudden her brain is just going 100 miles an hour still.
• 15:50
  Apryl: When there's nights like that where I can tell like her brain just is not turning off, things like guided imagery, which YouTube, which I know we just talked about screens, but you can do this without you don't have to look at the screen, it's literally just turning it on so you can hear it.
• 16:05
  Apryl: But like guided imagery, they have those four specifically for kids and teens.
• 16:10
  Apryl: This works for teens too, and they have you know older ones for teens.
• 16:13
  Apryl: The honest guys has some good, like as this wouldn't be for little kids, but I mean they could be, but they'd just be not as fun.
• 16:20
  Apryl: But the honest guys is a good one on YouTube, but yeah, like just listening to that, because then their brain starts to listen to that and gets off of all of the mind stuff, the stuff that's going on in their mind.
• 16:31
  Apryl: Audiobooks, so any sort of like read aloud audiobooks, you can also, again, turning on YouTube, but not watching it, but listening to it.
• 16:39
  Apryl: There's so many read alouds online, like children's picture books being read aloud, listening to those kind of things, because again, it gets it makes their brain focus on one thing instead of like all of the things going on 100 miles an hour still.
• 16:53
  Apryl: So those are a few really good things that have definitely worked in our house.
• 16:58
  Brian: Right.
• 16:58
  Brian: And when we talk about this sleep and we talk about some of these techniques, like you probably remember from high school psychology class, the Pavlov's dog, the conditioning, the bell rings, the dog starts to drool.
• 17:11
  Brian: So that's a similar thing that's what's happening with our sleep is when you go into the bedroom and you lay down, and that music or or the the guided imagery or whatever it is that you're using to fall asleep, when all the conditions are right, your your child's brain says, wait a minute, every time this happens, this is bedtime and I need to go to sleep, and you can start that conditioning to put your child to sleep.
• 17:35
  Brian: And this the same thing can work with you or with anybody.
• 17:38
  Brian: But you want to condition yourself that when this series of stimuli occurs, this is what puts you to sleep.
• 17:45
  Apryl: Yeah, I'll actually do that when my mind is racing, and I've I read in bed, but then some nights I'll like turn off everything and then it'll go to sleep, and my mind is racing.
• 17:57
  Apryl: And so I will put on something.
• 18:00
  Apryl: I'll just put like my earbud in my ear, because otherwise Brian would probably kill me.
• 18:04
  Brian: Nothing keeps your partner awake like your other partner doing their own little bedtime routine.
• 18:09
  Apryl: Anyway, but I'll put my earbud in and listen to an audiobook, like, and you can set a timer, and now you just set a timer, and then my brain is listening to that story, and it gets off of and I can fall asleep so fast that way.
• 18:22
  Apryl: Or I'll do like the honest guys, like the guided imagery kind of stuff.
• 18:25
  Brian: So and the goal is not to provide entertainment, the goal is to provide a conditioning to put you to sleep.
• 18:32
  Brian: So don't seek novelty, don't be like, oh, you've listened to this one a couple nights in a row.
• 18:36
  Brian: Let's switch it up.
• 18:37
  Brian: That's not the goal.
• 18:38
  Brian: Don't switch it up.
• 18:39
  Brian: Find out what works or starts to work and keep going with that.
• 18:42
  Brian: And if it's the guided imagery, you can listen to the same guided imagery each day.
• 18:46
  Brian: Or you can pull up the calm app, like whatever it is.
• 18:50
  Brian: You know, you fall asleep to rain sounds or rain by the cabin.
• 18:54
  Brian: Poof.
• 18:55
  Brian: Rain by the cabin every night.
• 18:57
  Apryl: Yep.
• 18:57
  Apryl: Yep.
• 18:58
  Apryl: And I've I've actually found with our daughter, she kind of goes in phases too.
• 19:02
  Apryl: You know, kids with ADHD hyperfocus, her sleep things hyperfocus as well.
• 19:07
  Apryl: Like when she was little, little, there was um like a certain guided imagery thing that she listened to, and it put her right to sleep.
• 19:15
  Apryl: Like she was little, little when we were using that, and that worked for quite a few years.
• 19:19
  Apryl: It was Moshi by I think like the call map or something.
• 19:22
  Apryl: Anyway, and then um and now it's like s music, which is freaking annoying music, but it's repetitive patterns though.
• 19:34
  Apryl: So I it doesn't have words, it's just repetitive patterns.
• 19:38
  Apryl: And so I think it just makes her brain like to me.
• 19:41
  Brian: It's like electronic music, and it's like, oh shoot, it's start again, and it'll go for I mean and forever until you go stop it.
• 19:48
  Brian: You just go check her room 20 minutes later and she's zonked and you stop the music.
• 19:53
  Apryl: Yeah, but it works for her, and I will let her test, you know, she's like, I want to use this song tonight, and I'm like, okay, but if you're not asleep in like 10 minutes, I'm turning this off and we're turning it back to your your regular, and but then she'll listen to it for like months on end.
• 20:08
  Apryl: Like that'll be her way to fall asleep.
• 20:10
  Brian: Right.
• 20:10
  Brian: I mean, this couldn't it could be Metallica if it's if that's what you're conditioning to fall asleep to.
• 20:16
  Apryl: Yeah, her son used to fall asleep to jump.
• 20:18
  Brian: Yeah, Van Halen.
• 20:19
  Brian: Which I mean, that's kind of a soft song, no, it's not soft.
• 20:22
  Brian: My slow keyboard song.
• 20:24
  Apryl: No, but like again, it's like the way that their brain can get off of all the things of the day.
• 20:29
  Apryl: So, but training it, like you hear jump, and he was like, Oh, that's my sleep song.
• 20:33
  Apryl: Okay, I'll fall asleep.
• 20:34
  Apryl: So, yeah.
• 20:35
  Apryl: Okay, really quick.
• 20:36
  Apryl: If we've tried these things, we've put in the routines, we've done these different things, and it's still not working.
• 20:43
  Apryl: Are there medications?
• 20:45
  Apryl: Are there things that we can do?
• 20:46
  Apryl: I know for us, we use melatonin.
• 20:48
  Apryl: I use like a milligram of melatonin, which again, this is all educational purposes.
• 20:53
  Apryl: You need to talk to your provider.
• 20:55
  Apryl: This is just what has worked for us.
• 20:58
  Brian: So yeah, we use melatonin and it's available over the counter.
• 21:01
  Brian: That being said, there's some really good ADHD medications that your doctor can prescribe.
• 21:07
  Brian: You've probably heard of clonidine or guanphosine, they're very common.
• 21:10
  Brian: They're ADHD meds that are sedating that we often use for kids that can't fall asleep, and now we're able to give them a medication that helps during the day and will help at night.
• 21:21
  Brian: The other thing is, though, with sleep is sometimes it's not ADHD.
• 21:25
  Brian: Now, a lot of the time it's going to be, especially if you're listening to this podcast, but it's possible that it's not.
• 21:30
  Brian: And so if you're hearing snoring or seeing restless legs or you know, breathing pauses, things like that, there's like sleep apnea or other or restless leg syndrome or other things that could be causing the sleep issues.
• 21:44
  Brian: So if this isn't going away quickly, or if you sense that it could be something more than just ADHD, go talk to your doctor about it.
• 21:51
  Brian: And you can do sleep studies and things like this in kids.
• 21:55
  Apryl: Yeah, to rule out like sleep apnea or things like that.
• 21:59
  Brian: Yeah.
• 22:00
  Apryl: So again, going back to those anecdotal notes, if you're noticing my kids snoring a lot, your doctor's gonna ask, Oh, well, how often do they snore?
• 22:08
  Apryl: Our daughter, I thought she had sleep apnea.
• 22:10
  Apryl: So I took recording of her snoring so the doctor could hear it.
• 22:15
  Apryl: And just taking anecdotal notes, then the more info you can give the doctor, the more they know.
• 22:21
  Apryl: Because they're not there every night.
• 22:23
  Brian: Right.
• 22:23
  Brian: And I mean, I guess in theory it's it's possible to over inform your doctor, but in general, I mean, get it all and bring as much as you can.
• 22:31
  Brian: So here's the other thing though.
• 22:32
  Brian: Sometimes it actually is the medications.
• 22:35
  Brian: So a lot of these medications are available in long-acting formulations, and their the goal is to get it to last as long as you can throughout the day, but when it will last too long, it can start to influence sleep.
• 22:47
  Brian: And so some of these younger kids will metabolize the medications a little slower, and everybody themselves just metabolize this at a just an ever so slightly different rate.
• 22:56
  Brian: And a lot of our younger kids aren't awake 16 hours a day like adults are.
• 23:01
  Brian: And so if you got a long-acting medication in a young child that's metabolizing this slow, and the medication's already long-acting, these can start to influence sleep.
• 23:10
  Brian: So you can keep a diary and and know, oh, on the weekends I give it to my child, you know, an hour later or whatever, and it takes them about an hour later to fall asleep.
• 23:19
  Brian: And bring these this information into your doctor because there's so many different formulations of both the methylphenidate, the Ritalin formulations, as well as the amphetamine formulations.
• 23:29
  Brian: I mean, there's like more than 10 of each of them.
• 23:32
  Brian: And so you can get these adjusted to get the right one.
• 23:35
  Brian: You don't need to live with the wrong medication dose.
• 23:38
  Apryl: Yeah, definitely.
• 23:39
  Apryl: Um, so yeah, like I feel like it's always go talk to your doctor, but definitely it is always go talk to your doctor, but especially about this one.
• 23:47
  Brian: And people need to realize like what the medications are.
• 23:50
  Brian: When you talk to patients as a physician, often it's like, well, my child didn't do well with this one, but did do well with this one.
• 23:56
  Brian: But when you look at it, it's like, well, of course your child did well with this one because the dose was right for their age, and they didn't do well with this one because this dose is is not even close.
• 24:06
  Brian: But you actually could do better with this medication that you didn't do well with the first time, if the dose is right and the timing is right, and and now your child's older, they're gonna metabolize them differently.
• 24:18
  Brian: I mean, there's just it's a much more complicated the world than you know, I did well with Tylenol, didn't do well with ibuprofen.
• 24:25
  Apryl: Yeah.
• 24:26
  Apryl: Okay.
• 24:26
  Apryl: I think one thing to note too, and I've seen this a lot in the ADHD parent groups that I'm in, melatonin works really well for like our daughter.
• 24:37
  Apryl: I've taken it before to fall asleep, but one thing that I noticed is sometimes if I take, I'll take a one milligram and it just helps me fall asleep.
• 24:46
  Apryl: But we used to have five milligram ones, and if I took that much, 2 a.m.
• 24:51
  Apryl: I'd be wide awake.
• 24:52
  Apryl: And I've seen that in the parent Facebook groups too.
• 24:54
  Apryl: I give my kid melatonin, they fall asleep, but then they wake up in the middle of the night.
• 24:58
  Apryl: So watch for that with melatonin too.
• 25:01
  Brian: Right.
• 25:02
  Brian: Most of the research with melatonin shows that the lower doses are where you want to be.
• 25:06
  Apryl: Yeah, didn't you say that like higher is actually a placebo?
• 25:10
  Brian: Right.
• 25:11
  Brian: Your your placebo passed like just a couple milligrams.
• 25:15
  Apryl: I can take a one milligram kid's one and it helps me fall asleep as an adult.
• 25:19
  Brian: So And if you're like, geez, I'm on ten milligrams and it still doesn't help, well, melatonin may not be the answer then, or maybe you're overshooting.
• 25:28
  Apryl: Yeah.
• 25:28
  Apryl: So just a side note there on melatonin.
• 25:30
  Apryl: Research shows that shifting the medication or low dose of melatonin is actually effective in over 60% of ADHD kids with sleep issues, especially when you go again talk to your doctor.
• 25:46
  Brian: Yeah.
• 25:46
  Brian: When when you do melatonin right, it can be very effective.
• 25:50
  Apryl: Yeah, perfect.
• 25:51
  Apryl: So, like we talked about in the beginning, is sleep issues affect the entire family, but there is hope.
• 25:59
  Apryl: And remember, they're not trying to be difficult, they're not trying to not go to sleep.
• 26:05
  Apryl: And again, I said this in one of the other podcast episodes from Dr.
• 26:08
  Apryl: Becky, is your child is not giving you a hard time, they're having a hard time.
• 26:13
  Apryl: They're having a hard time falling asleep too.
• 26:15
  Apryl: So everyone, it's it's just hard for everyone.
• 26:19
  Apryl: But when you try these, you know, you might have to try a few different routines or a few different songs that maybe you couldn't fall asleep to, but your kid can.
• 26:27
  Apryl: But there is hope if you keep doing this.
• 26:30
  Apryl: And I think number one, turn down the lights.
• 26:33
  Apryl: It makes a huge difference, I promise.
• 26:36
  Brian: Yeah, and I mean we've already kind of talked about this, but when you when you sleep better, your ADHD symptoms get better.
• 26:42
  Brian: I mean, it's all almost all ADHD symptoms across the board will improve with better night's sleep.
• 26:47
  Apryl: Yeah, and sleep, I mean, just it just helps everything.
• 26:49
  Apryl: ADHD symptoms, focus, emotions, everything works better when there's sleep.
• 26:56
  Brian: Right.
• 26:56
  Brian: And and one more thing is there's no bad kids, there's only bad situations, or in this case, it's it's a neurobiological that's causing the difficulty.
• 27:06
  Brian: Your child's not trying to keep you as awake, and your child's not trying to be distracted in class and all these kind of things.
• 27:12
  Brian: It's neurobiological.
• 27:15
  Apryl: Yeah.
• 27:15
  Apryl: And if you can get those routines in place, I mean there's still gonna be some rough nights, but for the most part, I promise you, there is hope that you can get in a good routine.
• 27:25
  Apryl: We've done it in our house, and there are some nights, and I do find it it's like nights that our daughter is excited for something that are the hardest for her to fall asleep, because again, I think her brain is just going a hundred miles an hour.
• 27:36
  Apryl: And you know, sometimes those nights, I know she's safe.
• 27:40
  Apryl: I know she's not a child who's gonna like open the door and go outside or anything.
• 27:46
  Apryl: So sometimes I'll be like, Hey, why don't you go sit at the kitchen table?
• 27:50
  Apryl: And we have a lamp in our kitchen, a little lamp, so it's like very mild light.
• 27:55
  Apryl: And I'm like, why don't you go play with your Legos in the kitchen?
• 27:58
  Apryl: And I'll fall asleep.
• 28:00
  Apryl: And she'll play Legos till she falls asleep.
• 28:02
  Brian: So and I'll be honest she's not falling asleep at the kitchen table.
• 28:05
  Apryl: No, no, no, she'll go to bed.
• 28:06
  Apryl: But I'll be honest, there has been nights that like two, three o'clock in the morning she's still awake and she has school the next day.
• 28:12
  Apryl: I mean, it's very rare that that happens, but it it's happened and it just life goes on.
• 28:19
  Apryl: Yeah, it is what it is, and it's okay, and we've we survive.
• 28:22
  Apryl: So there is hope.
• 28:24
  Apryl: Find that routine that works for you, talk to your doctor about medication, notice if there's any other symptoms going on beyond um the ADHD.
• 28:34
  Apryl: Talk to your doctor and talk to them about, you know, possibly adjusting medication, things like that.
• 28:42
  Apryl: Routine, medication, other symptoms.
• 28:45
  Apryl: Those are your things that are gonna help.
• 28:47
  Brian: Um and if this episode spoke to you, share it with another ADHD parent or share it with a teacher who needs to hear it.
• 28:53
  Brian: You're not alone in this, and we are so glad you're here.
• 28:56
  Apryl: Yes, we are.
• 28:57
  Apryl: All right, we'll see you next week.
• 28:59
  Apryl: Same time, same place.
• 29:01
  Brian: Thanks so much for joining us for today's conversation on raising ADHD.
• 29:05
  Brian: Remember, raising ADHD kids doesn't have to feel overwhelming.
• 29:08
  Brian: Small shifts can make a big difference.
• 29:11
  Brian: If you found this episode helpful, it would mean the world if you would hit subscribe, if you would leave a review, or if you shared it with another parent or teacher who needs this support.
• 29:20
  Brian: And don't forget to join us next week for more real talk, practical tips, and encouragement.
• 29:25
  Brian: Until then, you've got this and we've got your back.