Latest / The Occult Rejects / Dr Rachel Turetzky- 8-Circuit Ascension- A Guide to Metaprogramming the Multidimensional Self

Transcript

Dr Rachel Turetzky- 8-Circuit Ascension- A Guide to Metaprogramming the Multidimensional Self · The Occult Rejects

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  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
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  Speaker 2: What a.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Occult Rejects.
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  Speaker 3: In this episode, we got a bunch of guests here
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  Speaker 3: and a very exciting book and stuff to talk about.
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  Speaker 3: Should be really interesting and maybe out there, and that's
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  Speaker 3: what exactly what this show's about. So but before we
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  Speaker 3: introduced these guests, let me introduce the other rejects.
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  Speaker 1: Judith, what is going on?
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  Speaker 2: How are you hi? Thank you for having me again.
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  Speaker 2: I'm Balloon Judas Swanson. Welcome to our guests today. I'm
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  Speaker 2: looking forward to the topic and you could find me
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  Speaker 2: on YouTube and on x as the Loon on I'm
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  Speaker 2: at the Loon fifty and I deal with more of
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  Speaker 2: meditation and self development. And that's it.
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  Speaker 4: And thank you again.
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  Speaker 1: Also, no, thank you. I appreciate you making it again.
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  Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
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  Speaker 3: And Robbie March, sir, please let everyone out where they
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  Speaker 3: can find all your amazing work.
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  Speaker 1: Please.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, thanks for having me on. Nick.
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  Speaker 5: It's always a great time to come hang out. And
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  Speaker 5: this is a topic that I'm extremely interested in, just
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  Speaker 5: in regard to consciousness and you know, the medicine for
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  Speaker 5: the mind, body and soul. I am an artist and illustrator.
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  Speaker 5: I do art for bands and festivals, different stuff like that.
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  Speaker 5: I've been in the industry about thirty five years and
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  Speaker 5: I come on to do this to have fun and
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  Speaker 5: talk about these different topics, you know, from philosophy to esoterica.
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  Speaker 5: So yeah, thanks for having me on. And if anybody
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  Speaker 5: wants to check out my other stuff, you can check
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  Speaker 5: out my link tree which is link tree r m
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  Speaker 5: r X and that'll pull up all my miscellaneous links
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  Speaker 5: and ways that you can get a hold of me.
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  Speaker 5: So thanks for having me on.
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  Speaker 1: Nick. Oh, of course, thank you for making it.
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  Speaker 3: And uh yeah, our guests are the co authors of
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  Speaker 3: the eight second Ascension. That is a guide to metaprogramming
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  Speaker 3: the multi dimensional self, and that is written by Douglas
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  Speaker 3: s Wingate and doctor Rachel Tretsky. And we do have
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  Speaker 3: doctor J. Brown, David sorry, David J. Brown, who wrote
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  Speaker 3: the forward. He is joining us and he's wrote twenty
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  Speaker 3: other books and he has done tons of interesting research,
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  Speaker 3: and together they've taken the classic Leary and Wilson lineage
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  Speaker 3: idea and reframed it for a modern reader who's trying
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  Speaker 3: to do the real work understanding conditioning, navigating altered states,
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  Speaker 3: integrating big experiences, and if we're being honest, figuring out
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  Speaker 3: who's actually holding the keyboard inside of our head. So yeah,
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  Speaker 3: we got the three of them and I will off.
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  Speaker 3: We'll start off with you, Doug. Please let everybody know
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  Speaker 3: what's up with you.
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  Speaker 6: Sure.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: My name is Doctors are Wingates.
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  Speaker 6: I mostly work as integrative neuro rehabilitation specialists, so I've
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  Speaker 6: been working in neurorehabilitation.
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  Speaker 4: And a number of different realms for the last fifteen
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  Speaker 4: years or so.
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  Speaker 6: I'm also a licensed pilocybin facilitator in the state of Oregon,
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  Speaker 6: so I've had the opportunity to legally facilitate hundreds of
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  Speaker 6: psilocybin journeys at this point. A lot of those have
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  Speaker 6: been working with people who have history of neurotrauma. So
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  Speaker 6: I focus and do research and psychedelicasists in neuro rehabilitation
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  Speaker 6: in addition to being one of the co founders of
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  Speaker 6: eight Circuit Ascension alongside doctor Rachel and doctor David ha
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  Speaker 6: longtime interests in consciousness and self developments and psychonautics.
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  Speaker 3: So pleasure to be here, No, thank you, this is
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  Speaker 3: this is awesome. I really appreciate you all coming and
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  Speaker 3: we got doctor Rachel.
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  Speaker 1: What is going on?
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, thank you so much for having us.
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  Speaker 8: Yes, So, i have a PhD in clinical psychology with
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  Speaker 8: an emphasis in depth psychology and further training in psychdelicacist
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  Speaker 8: of therapy and particularly which is currently legal to work
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  Speaker 8: with KEDMIE assisted therapy. And I've just been really focusing
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  Speaker 8: the past couple of years as I worked towards licensure,
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  Speaker 8: just working on these projects, really focusing on the eighth
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  Speaker 8: Circuit Model and co authoring the book and other projects
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  Speaker 8: with doctor Doug and David especially excited about. So we're
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  Speaker 8: working on the workbook currently for the main text, the
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  Speaker 8: eighth Circuit Ascension Workbook, and then also an oracle deck
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  Speaker 8: based on the d MT entities and the eight Circuit model.
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  Speaker 1: Awesome, thank you so much, Doctor J. Brown sah please.
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  Speaker 9: I'm David J. Brown. I am a writer, author, researcher.
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  Speaker 9: My background is in behavioral neuroscience. I was a researcher
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  Speaker 9: at New York University and the University of Southern California
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  Speaker 9: for a number of years. I did research into neophobia,
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  Speaker 9: which is the fear of novelty and electrical brain stimulation.
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  Speaker 9: And I'm also the author of twenty books about the
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  Speaker 9: evolution of consciousness. I've written books on lucid dreaming. I've
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  Speaker 9: written books on the d MT entity phenomena. I've written
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  Speaker 9: books on the interface between science and spirituality. Most recently,
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  Speaker 9: my book is The Illustrated Field Guide to the d
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  Speaker 9: MT Entities, which was a springboard for the project that
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  Speaker 9: I'm working on with Rachel for the past year, which
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  Speaker 9: is an oracle deck that utilizes the different entities the
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  Speaker 9: people encounter on their d MT journeys. And I worked
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  Speaker 9: with maps for a number of years the Multidisciplinary Association
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  Speaker 9: for Psychedelic Studies and UH And also I worked for
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  Speaker 9: five years with a British biologist, Rupert Sheldrake, about his
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  Speaker 9: research into the U the unexplained powers of animals, or
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  Speaker 9: the psychic power of animals.
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  Speaker 1: That's awesome. Nice.
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  Speaker 3: I've tried to get that guy on the show so
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  Speaker 3: many times. He's told me no, and I keep trying.
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  Speaker 3: Every six months. He's gonna get tired of here.
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  Speaker 9: Yeah, he's he's very busy.
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  Speaker 3: No, that's what he tells me. I honestly believe that's
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  Speaker 3: the truth. All think he's just blowing me off. I
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  Speaker 3: think he's honestly busy. That is awesome, man, I mean
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  Speaker 3: some things I think I would like to have you
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  Speaker 3: back on the show for some other topics you already mentioned.
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  Speaker 3: Great stuff, all right, So I guess I don't know,
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  Speaker 3: like I get maybe we'll go one at a time
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  Speaker 3: or something. But like I guess, the Doug like, what
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  Speaker 3: was it that?
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  Speaker 1: What did you like? How did you find yourself getting
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  Speaker 1: into this?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 6: I originally got into my consciousness studies early early on,
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  Speaker 6: so interested uh introduced to Taoism and the Dada ching
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  Speaker 6: in like thirteen fourteen, and then around age seventeen or so,
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  Speaker 6: ran across Robert Anton Wilson in Palell's books here in Portland.
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  Speaker 6: Just happened to run across looking through the metax metaphysics section,
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  Speaker 6: and Prometheus Rising was.
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  Speaker 4: In there and just pulled me in.
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  Speaker 6: I thumbed through it and got sucked in ever since
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  Speaker 6: and read through that a number of times. And then
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  Speaker 6: I was very fortunate before Bob's passing to be involved
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  Speaker 6: in his Maybe Logic Academy when he started teaching online,
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  Speaker 6: so had the opportunity to go through and work through
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  Speaker 6: the eighth circuit model with Robert Anton Wilson which was
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  Speaker 6: a huge blessing and growth for me for sure, And
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  Speaker 6: then a couple of years later similar offering from Mansaro
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  Speaker 6: Ali based on the eighth circuit model as well through
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  Speaker 6: the Maybe Logic Academy, and then ultimately outside of that,
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  Speaker 6: I've done that training with him a few times before
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  Speaker 6: his passing. So it's been a long journey working with
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  Speaker 6: this kind of material and always foundationally just super interested
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  Speaker 6: in kind of the range of human experience or you know,
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  Speaker 6: how broad that experience can be and how we can
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  Speaker 6: continue to broaden it and better ourselves.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you and doctor Rachel.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, so around the early two thousands, i'd say it
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  Speaker 8: was the first time I came across the eighth circuit model.
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  Speaker 7: But also similar to.
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  Speaker 8: Doug, early teening years, was really interested in consciousness studies
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  Speaker 8: and fell down the verbial rabbit hole, started experimenting with
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  Speaker 8: psychedelics and reading all kinds of spiritual literature, practicing all
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  Speaker 8: kinds of stuff. Eight circuit model is such a great
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  Speaker 8: tool for really organizing and understanding those experiences and different ideas. Also,
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  Speaker 8: so similar to Doug, I was able to take a
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  Speaker 8: course with Antro Ali when he had his eighth circuit
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  Speaker 8: brain course, so just working in the field of psychedelics, though,
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  Speaker 8: I felt like this was just such an important tool
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  Speaker 8: that kind of because of Mary's reputation just to kind
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  Speaker 8: of fell into the fringes and really wanted to bring
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  Speaker 8: it out to the mainstream because I found it so
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  Speaker 8: personally helpful and.
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  Speaker 7: This is great framework to be could be used and
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  Speaker 7: help so many people.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate that. And David, please.
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  Speaker 9: Let's see how did I get involved in this. I
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  Speaker 9: guess I've been interested in dreams and altered states of
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  Speaker 9: consciousness ever since I was a child, really, and I
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  Speaker 9: had my first LSD trip when I was sixteen years old,
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  Speaker 9: and a few days later had my first my first
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  Speaker 9: lucid dream spontaneously. And it was like right around that
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  Speaker 9: time when I was sixteen and tripping and first exploring
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  Speaker 9: these psychedelic states of consciousness that I came across Robert
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  Speaker 9: Anton Wilson's book Trigger and Uh. And that book really
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  Speaker 9: was a cosmic trigger for me. I mean, it's pretty
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  Speaker 9: much my my It mapped out my whole life. You
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  Speaker 9: know that that book. Almost all the people that I've
• 10:10
  Speaker 9: interviewed over the years and people I've worked with or
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  Speaker 9: people that I discovered through through reading that book, and
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  Speaker 9: it sort of started me on this quest. That's how
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  Speaker 9: I got involved in UH neuroscience research. And and I
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  Speaker 9: was very fortunate when I was when I was in
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  Speaker 9: my mid twenties, I wrote a science fiction novel called
• 10:29
  Speaker 9: called Brainchild. And when I when I when I was
• 10:34
  Speaker 9: still in the process of writing the book and I
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  Speaker 9: had just found a publisher, I went to a lecture
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  Speaker 9: that Robert Anton Wilson was giving in Santa Cruz and
• 10:43
  Speaker 9: waited for him. After the lectures, I wanted to ask
• 10:45
  Speaker 9: him if he could possibly consider writing a blurb for
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  Speaker 9: the back cover of the book. And and I, you know,
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  Speaker 9: I got to work out my courage. I was all starstruck.
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  Speaker 9: And I went up to meet him and I said,
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  Speaker 9: you know, I just finished this science fiction novel and
• 11:00
  Speaker 9: I was wondering if maybe you could possibly write a
• 11:03
  Speaker 9: you know, a little blurb for the back cover. And
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  Speaker 9: he did not seem very enthusiastic. He kind of because
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  Speaker 9: if I was like one hundredth person that day who
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  Speaker 9: asked him for a back cover blurb, and I was
• 11:13
  Speaker 9: feeling kind of embarrassed. But he said, you know, just
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  Speaker 9: just mail it to me. And he gave me an
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  Speaker 9: address to mail it to, and I so I had
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  Speaker 9: my publisher. It was called New Falcon at the time.
• 11:23
  Speaker 9: What are they called now, Original Falcon. They keep changing
• 11:25
  Speaker 9: their name, but they were called New Falcon at the time,
• 11:28
  Speaker 9: and they and they mailed my manuscript to Bob, and
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  Speaker 9: I was thrilled to discover that he wrote an eleven
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  Speaker 9: page introduction to the book, not just a back over blur.
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  Speaker 9: But you know, he was my he was my hero,
• 11:44
  Speaker 9: and having him do this was just, you know, it
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  Speaker 9: was just absolutely one of the most magnificent things that's
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  Speaker 9: happened in my life. And and as a result of that,
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  Speaker 9: I went to go visit him when he was living
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  Speaker 9: in Los Angeles, and he invited me to come to
• 11:59
  Speaker 9: his weekly gatherings he did, you know, sort of book
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  Speaker 9: readings and discussion groups every week about his books, about
• 12:07
  Speaker 9: other people's books like James Joyce, and we would sometimes
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  Speaker 9: watch movies and talk about them. And I went to
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  Speaker 9: Bob's meetings once a week for about twenty years. So
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  Speaker 9: he became a very close friend of mine, and I
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  Speaker 9: was really fortunate to be able to spend a lot
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  Speaker 9: of time talking to Bob about philosophical ideas and creativity
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  Speaker 9: and politics and consciousness expansion and all those wonderful things.
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  Speaker 9: And I think he's truly one of the greatest geniuses
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  Speaker 9: that our speeches has produced. So it was through him
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  Speaker 9: that I discovered the eighth circuit model of the brain,
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  Speaker 9: of course, and the eighth circuit model, I think is just,
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  Speaker 9: you know, it's just the best psychologist psychological model to
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  Speaker 9: explain not only you know, the mundane states of consciousness
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  Speaker 9: that everybody the experiences, but you know, also the higher
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  Speaker 9: states of consciousness. And it's based upon uh, the law
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  Speaker 9: of octaves, you know, the uh, the uh you know,
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  Speaker 9: which we see represented and the colors of the rainbow
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  Speaker 9: and the notes of the musical scale and uh and
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  Speaker 9: and it was really Timothy Leary and Robert Anton Wilson's
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  Speaker 9: stroke of genius to apply this to the the evolution
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  Speaker 9: of consciousness and to UH and to the and to
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  Speaker 9: human development. So so I was thrilled. You know, Rachel
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  Speaker 9: and I were experimenting with some altered states of consciousness
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  Speaker 9: a few years ago, and it was during that experience
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  Speaker 9: that we thought we really should you know, update this
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  Speaker 9: you know, this model and uh you know, and and
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  Speaker 9: bring it up to date with with modern neuroscience and
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  Speaker 9: with all the the new breakthroughs and all the different
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  Speaker 9: fields of science that it that it has relevance to.
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  Speaker 9: And uh and that was the that was the original
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  Speaker 9: inspiration for for how this how this book originally came together.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, Robbie or Judith, there was anything you wanted to ask?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to ask if you could explain because
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  Speaker 2: not all of us are familiar with the eighth circuit
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  Speaker 2: model that you're speaking of. If you could just expand
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  Speaker 2: on that for us.
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  Speaker 9: You want me or Doug or who original who do anyway?
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  Speaker 6: One?
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  Speaker 9: Well, Well, the eighth circuit model, like I said, it's
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  Speaker 9: it's based on the law of octaves, you know, which
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  Speaker 9: is which was originally developed from chemistry. That there's basically
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  Speaker 9: eight different chemical groups that that repeat or that break
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  Speaker 9: into different types of chemical formations. And we we've people
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  Speaker 9: have been able to see that that that same pattern
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  Speaker 9: is represented in the colors of the rainbow, red, orange, green, yellow, indigo, violet,
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  Speaker 9: and the musical scale door and the fossil lati doo,
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  Speaker 9: and it's represented in virtually every every aspect of nature.
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  Speaker 9: And when you apply it to to psychological development, there's
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  Speaker 9: you know, there's basically eight different stages and uh, and
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  Speaker 9: those are the you know, the you know, the survival stage,
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  Speaker 9: the emotional stage, the intellectual stage, the social sexual stage,
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  Speaker 9: the neurosomatic or or esthetic stage, neuroelectrical, neuro neurogenetic, and
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  Speaker 9: then neuroatomic. And they as you escalate up the scale,
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  Speaker 9: you there are you know, greater degrees of freedom and
• 15:28
  Speaker 9: uh and greater degrees of of of of century exchange.
• 15:35
  Speaker 9: So so it's it's it's it's really just an incredibly
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  Speaker 9: brilliant model for being able to help understand psycho psychedelic experiences.
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  Speaker 9: In particular for me at least, that was why I
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  Speaker 9: was so drawn to it, because because the the stages
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  Speaker 9: are just so you know, they're so carefully they're just
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  Speaker 9: so carefully expressed, and they sort of fit into this
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  Speaker 9: wonderful sequence model. But maybe Doug or Rachel can add
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  Speaker 9: to that.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, thank you so much, David. That's I guess
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  Speaker 4: just an.
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  Speaker 6: Absolutely true and another way that we've come to kind
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  Speaker 6: of discuss this as well is sort of different types
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  Speaker 6: of intelligence that each human has the capacity to tap
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  Speaker 6: into or navigate. And so, as David mentioned, we have
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  Speaker 6: kind of the bodily intelligence or somatic intelligence. We have
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  Speaker 6: emotional intelligence, we have rational intelligence, we have social intelligence,
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: sensory intelligence where we've become consciously able to work with
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: and alter our sensory experiences and expand that meta intelligence
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: where we become more self aware and self conscious around
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: how our thinking patterns and our belief systems, and once
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  Speaker 6: we become more aware of that, we have the opportunity
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  Speaker 6: to again take conscious control and alter those in a
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: way that might be more efficient for us. And then
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  Speaker 6: there's a sort of a collective intelligence where we have
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  Speaker 6: a lot of young and archetype type material and epigenetic
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  Speaker 6: material that kind of bonds us all as a species.
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  Speaker 6: And then there's unitive intelligence, which is a lot of
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  Speaker 6: the transpersonal, mystical, non dual ego transcendent states that can
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  Speaker 6: come out of the psychedelic states or other practices that
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  Speaker 6: lend themselves to these altered states of consciousness or these
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: types of intelligence. So the model works is a great
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: framework to be able to have an informed discussion around
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  Speaker 6: that and an understanding of kind of where people are
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: operating or where people may maybe want to do personal
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: work or might be tapping into with their altered states and.
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  Speaker 8: Also to just how we work with the model as
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  Speaker 8: quote unquote metaprogrammers.
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  Speaker 7: So that would be circuit six.
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  Speaker 8: So that's the intentional you know, exploring what are your
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  Speaker 8: belief systems, how have you been conditioned throughout your life,
• 17:55
  Speaker 8: and then being able to question and potentially alter those
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  Speaker 8: intent by choice with intention and trying to like what
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  Speaker 8: is your authentic self and or so this also fits
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  Speaker 8: in with like this audience as the cultist, where you're
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  Speaker 8: trying to decondition your pre programs, so that also can
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  Speaker 8: lends itself to healing, but also the development of these
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  Speaker 8: higher senses, so like in terms of you know, astral
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  Speaker 8: projection or psychic phenomena and nusis the experience of the
• 18:29
  Speaker 8: Holy Guardian angel and so on. So that like circuits
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  Speaker 8: sists is sort of stepping into the role of a
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  Speaker 8: magician and you know, again working with both then the
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  Speaker 8: lower circuits and also kind.
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  Speaker 7: Of the access point between the lower and the upper circuits.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
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  Speaker 6: So a lot of our conversations when it comes to
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: the use of ritual or ceremonial practices or.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: Cult practices.
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  Speaker 6: Kind of falls into and can be looked at from
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: that perspective of meta cognition or meta intelligence as ways
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  Speaker 6: to sort of step out of or introduce states where
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: we can become more self aware and more self empowered.
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  Speaker 4: And so that's kind of how all of those fit
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  Speaker 4: into this.
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  Speaker 6: And Rachel Myo's work is really focused on that meta
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  Speaker 6: programming or that meta intelligence, and so it's really interesting
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: to have a conversation with people around how that's been
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: not overtly you used, but has been used within these practices,
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  Speaker 6: you know, across culturally for centuries millennia.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: So I've got a question.
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: I've got a copy of a monograph of Timothy Leary's
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: Exopsychology where he talks about is this the same type
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: of system?
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: It is the same system, it is the same model.
• 19:54
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 19:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So Timothy Leary's work exo Psychology was his his
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: I guess, main book that really focused in on this model,
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: and it took the perspective of bio evolution, so it
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: was taking a look at the evolution of consciousness on
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: a species type level.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: And so yeah, that's exactly.
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: And then Robert Anton Wilson's work with Prometheus Rising brought
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: that more into an individual development in the individual psychology
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: and then Antaro Ali's work brought that into sort of
• 20:28
  Speaker 6: a more personal ritual type dynamic.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: All right, anybody else got anything before I go off?
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I do have a question, and I hope I'm not
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: going off the topic. I did mention I was going
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: to ask this, But in your studies while you were
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: conducting your research for this, did you also deal with
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: the veterans dealing with PTSD and how does and if
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: you did, how did it affect them and how did
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: what kind of results did you get from that?
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: So, as we mentioned, I work with veterans a fair
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: amount with PTSD and UH and Regil might be able
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: to speak to her work with MAPS in that. I'm
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: not sure how much you how much detail you want
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: to get into that, but Rachel, do you want to
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: speak a little bit to that?
• 21:26
  Speaker 8: So well with respect to the eighth circuit model is
• 21:29
  Speaker 8: we haven't done any work personally with the circuit model
• 21:33
  Speaker 8: and veterans, but yeah, so I do have been working with.
• 21:38
  Speaker 7: MAPS for the past.
• 21:41
  Speaker 8: Thirteen years or so working on their MDMA PTSD studies
• 21:46
  Speaker 8: and to qualify for those studies.
• 21:49
  Speaker 7: It was like people who had.
• 21:51
  Speaker 8: Like such severe PTSD that basically they tried so many
• 21:54
  Speaker 8: different modalities and really nothing was working. And so the
• 22:00
  Speaker 8: MDMA trials were amazing because what they found was that
• 22:04
  Speaker 8: like about I can't I forget which phases was which,
• 22:08
  Speaker 8: but like one of the Phase one I think was
• 22:10
  Speaker 8: about seventy six or so percent of the participants running
• 22:16
  Speaker 8: to diagnose with PTSD anymore, and somewhere in that range,
• 22:20
  Speaker 8: you know, for Phase two, it was really unfortunate. There's
• 22:22
  Speaker 8: like been a bump in the road to getting MDMA
• 22:26
  Speaker 8: officially legalized retleased for psychedelica SISTE therapy at this point,
• 22:30
  Speaker 8: but there's just so much amazing research that Max had
• 22:35
  Speaker 8: done that just shows how it's been life changing for
• 22:39
  Speaker 8: so many people. So hopefully moving forward, you know, they
• 22:43
  Speaker 8: could figure out all these these little things that the
• 22:45
  Speaker 8: FDA wants changed, and but.
• 22:48
  Speaker 7: You know, because there's so many more people that it
• 22:50
  Speaker 7: could be helping, But we'll see.
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: I think it's interesting when you go back and you
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: look in history in regard to Roman history and the
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: Khaki and how everyone participated in the mysteries. It was
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: the idea of knowing thyself and coming into the you know,
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: and having these certain societal like understanding with the self
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: and the society and then you move that up into
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: like Timothy Leary doing the alcoholics and the various addictions
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: with LSD treatment in the prisons, and he had what
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: like an eighty three eighty five percent success rate, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: when you step back and look at the program as
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: a whole. So I think there's a lot of fundamental
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: sound value in the use of these substances for the
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: purpose of helping to help people step back from themselves
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: and be able to see things in a larger perspective
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: so that they're not so directly tied in with the
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: experience of the self in certain ways, if you know
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: what I mean.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and Rachel's very familiar with it. So you remember
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: what the percentage was.
• 24:02
  Speaker 7: I want to say it was about two thirds.
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, I thought it was eighty percent.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: It was high. Yeah, it was very impressive.
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: Mention, I'm sorry you mentioned FDA.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Is there uh restraints with your progress to make adjustments?
• 24:26
  Speaker 8: So it's it's maps they've been doing these studies for.
• 24:32
  Speaker 8: When did they start, David.
• 24:33
  Speaker 9: Do you know in this maybe around in two thousand
• 24:37
  Speaker 9: and five or two thousand and seven, somewhere around there,
• 24:40
  Speaker 9: I think was the beginning of the m d M
• 24:41
  Speaker 9: A PTSD studies. Yeah, but they.
• 24:44
  Speaker 8: Got you know, and at one point, it was in
• 24:46
  Speaker 8: twenty seventeen, they got fast tracked because they it was
• 24:52
  Speaker 8: just such compelling evidence that you know, this was going
• 24:56
  Speaker 8: to be this breakthrough treatment, and so phase three was
• 25:00
  Speaker 8: put on this fast track for approval.
• 25:03
  Speaker 7: And then it's just I guess there's just these you know, the.
• 25:07
  Speaker 8: Way that they went about the study design where it
• 25:10
  Speaker 8: was considered it wasn't as like scientifically repeatable because it's
• 25:17
  Speaker 8: like a very non directive approach. So just things that
• 25:19
  Speaker 8: they have to take in terms of the therapy itself,
• 25:21
  Speaker 8: because the FDA tends to deal with food and drug administration, right,
• 25:25
  Speaker 8: but now you're bringing in therapy and so and then
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: there were some ethical things that they had concerns about.
• 25:31
  Speaker 8: So there's all these like little things that it's not
• 25:34
  Speaker 8: about the efficacy of the treatment itself, but just complying
• 25:38
  Speaker 8: with certain regulatory standards that they want to see. Unfortunately
• 25:42
  Speaker 8: that impedes other people outside of these studies from getting
• 25:46
  Speaker 8: this treatment, but it is extremely promising and hopefully we
• 25:51
  Speaker 8: can move forward with that.
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: And we're sitting at a pretty similar place with psilocybin
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: right now. That's it's it's going through a couple different
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: Phase three trials and there's expectation and talk about that
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: going before the FDA for consideration for rescheduling within as
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: soon as the next six months or a year or
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: something like that. That's mostly focused on depression, and then
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: you know, if that goes forward, and it's similar to
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: with the MDMA, it's been fast tracked, it's been considered
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: a breakthrough therapy in both of the phase three trials
• 26:23
  Speaker 6: that are looking at getting finished up pretty quickly. Then
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: that would certainly open it up to more research, more access,
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: and being able to focus on PTSD as well, which
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: there's ample preliminary research showing that, and then hopefully getting
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: more funding toward specific populations like working with veterans. But
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: it's kind of one of those one step at a
• 26:45
  Speaker 6: time type things, especially when it comes to the federal level,
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: the FDA.
• 26:50
  Speaker 8: Well, and like you said, the federal level, but also
• 26:52
  Speaker 8: there's state different states. Obviously in Oregon, so solicide he
• 26:58
  Speaker 8: legally facilitates psilocybin journeys for folks, and then New Jersey,
• 27:03
  Speaker 8: I believe wants to legalize psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. I
• 27:07
  Speaker 8: think Texas was it that who's legalized BOGA.
• 27:12
  Speaker 9: I think that New Jersey just did. Actually, I think
• 27:14
  Speaker 9: they just did.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, in Colorado and Michigan as well.
• 27:19
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 27:19
  Speaker 6: New Mexico is also best legislation, So you know, it's
• 27:22
  Speaker 6: kind of like state by state.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: I've been really fortunate here in Oregon.
• 27:26
  Speaker 6: We've been able to do legal facilitation for about three
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: years and it's been incredible. We've had people fly in
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: from all over the country or all over the world
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: internationally to come in and do journeys because it's one
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: of the few places that you can legally access it
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: in a.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: You know, in a true framework of structure of support.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I call reject field trip.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Right then come on over, Oh man, that'd be fucking
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: whild want to ask since.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: What is a You might have mentioned it maybe within
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: explaining certain things, but I would just like to ask
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: us a question.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: What is a circuit? In practical terms?
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: A circuit is so originally.
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: It was referred to as the eighth circuit model, and
• 28:20
  Speaker 6: then over the years as authors and people who have
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: been working with the material, it's kind of used different
• 28:26
  Speaker 6: terminology as well. So it's been called the eight circuit model,
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: has been called eight dimensions of mind. We've called it
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: the eight dimensions of self or eight dimensions of intelligence,
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: and so circuit Originally, I think, well, David might be
• 28:42
  Speaker 6: able to correct me here, but that was more of
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: Timothy Leary's original verbision in terms of brain circuitry. So,
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: you know, a lot of the conversation around the time
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: that this was originally coming out was there's a big
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: boom in understanding of the human brain and preliminary neuroscience,
• 29:00
  Speaker 6: and so there were a lot of metaphors flying around
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: correlating or talking about the brain as.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: Sort of a biocomputer.
• 29:07
  Speaker 6: You know John Lily's work Metaprogramming the bio the human biocomputer,
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: So I think he was born out of that, and
• 29:16
  Speaker 6: I find it really interesting working in neuroscience myself, is
• 29:21
  Speaker 6: that we've kind of almost come around full circle where
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: you know, we have an understanding that it's not exactly
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: operating the way that it used to be looked at
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: like a like a computer, but there are circuits, or
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: there are large scale brain networks that are operating, and
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: many of these have to do with different neurotransmitter tracks
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: and things like that. And so it's it's kind of
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: like come back into the conversation in terms of neural circuitry.
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: But David, would you say that's correct.
• 29:55
  Speaker 9: Yeah, that's that sounds right. I mean in a circuit,
• 29:58
  Speaker 9: I mean he's basically on an electric circuit, you know,
• 30:01
  Speaker 9: like in an electrical system. It's like you know, a
• 30:03
  Speaker 9: looping you know, a looping electrical flow of current. And
• 30:09
  Speaker 9: he was trying basically to Tim was trying to use
• 30:12
  Speaker 9: the latest technology, which you know basically was the computer
• 30:16
  Speaker 9: as a metaphor. John the Lee was doing the same
• 30:18
  Speaker 9: thing with the programming and metaprogramming the human biocomputer. There's
• 30:24
  Speaker 9: just there's been kind of throughout the you know, the
• 30:27
  Speaker 9: evolution of psychology is you know, the latest technology is
• 30:30
  Speaker 9: sort of always what they based the brain or the
• 30:33
  Speaker 9: mind on. You know, Originally if you look in old
• 30:36
  Speaker 9: psychology textbooks, you know when I was when I was
• 30:39
  Speaker 9: a kid, I remember there was like, you know, they
• 30:41
  Speaker 9: use the telephone model, like you know, telephone operating system,
• 30:45
  Speaker 9: and you know before that they use the kind of
• 30:47
  Speaker 9: like Freud used like the steam engine as as as
• 30:50
  Speaker 9: the metaphor for the how the brain and the mind work.
• 30:54
  Speaker 9: So you know, that was the latest was the was
• 30:56
  Speaker 9: the computer, and then kind of virtual reality, but but
• 31:00
  Speaker 9: it was it was sort of an you know, sort
• 31:02
  Speaker 9: of an attempt to use the latest technology technology as
• 31:05
  Speaker 9: a as a metaphor for understanding the most the most
• 31:08
  Speaker 9: complex system that we know, the brain, which is really
• 31:11
  Speaker 9: be you know, it's way more complex than a computer
• 31:15
  Speaker 9: and whatever. Our next technology that we develop will probably
• 31:18
  Speaker 9: use that as a metaphor, because the brain is not
• 31:20
  Speaker 9: not a computer, but it functions in many ways like
• 31:23
  Speaker 9: a computer, if you if you want to use that metaphor.
• 31:27
  Speaker 8: I've actually already seen an article recently referencing AI as
• 31:31
  Speaker 8: being a new model, like, oh, this is refinding this
• 31:34
  Speaker 8: is how the brain works.
• 31:35
  Speaker 10: So yeah, what do you think is the biggest like
• 31:42
  Speaker 10: the biggest misconception people have about psychedelic therapy first versus
• 31:46
  Speaker 10: psychedelic coaching integration.
• 31:49
  Speaker 9: I think the biggest misconception is that psychedelics are fun
• 31:54
  Speaker 9: when it's it's really a lot of work, you know,
• 31:56
  Speaker 9: and it's not always fun, and it's it's soft and
• 31:58
  Speaker 9: scary and you have to I mean, it certainly can
• 32:01
  Speaker 9: be fun, you know, but but I think that's a
• 32:03
  Speaker 9: misconception that's sort of in the public mind is that
• 32:06
  Speaker 9: people use these things just for fun and recreation. When
• 32:09
  Speaker 9: you when you use it for therapy, it's really you know,
• 32:11
  Speaker 9: it's confronting your the darkest parts of yourself and a
• 32:14
  Speaker 9: lot of the things that you didn't know were there.
• 32:16
  Speaker 9: So it's, uh, it's you know, it's it's definitely not
• 32:20
  Speaker 9: necessarily always fun.
• 32:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely echo that I've found that to be a
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: semi common comment after people come in and do sessions
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: with us, is that they were expecting lots of you know,
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: giggle fests and rainbows, and.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: It's not always that.
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: I've definitely some people do have those experiences and that's
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: wonderful and you know, it's full, full bliss the entire time.
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: And then often it's a lot of deep, hard work
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: to be that they're working through, you know, bits of
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: their psyche, parts of themselves that they they don't or
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: haven't given attention to for a variety of different reasons.
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: And so that's it's definitely a fairly common comment that
• 33:01
  Speaker 6: we'll get that it's a lot of work.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: This kind of gets into the idea of the chapel
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: perilous mm hmm in regard to you know, going through
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: that that phase of you know, the distinction between knowing
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: and insanity. Yeah, yeah, And if you're not familiar with
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: the idea of chapel perilous, Chapel perilous is a descriptor
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: that's used in the circuit model language. I think Bob
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: used it first, and David, I know that you can
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: probably speak to the story of why he's used that,
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: but I mean it's something that's had different terms in
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: different practices.
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: Over and over again as people are going through this
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: sort of path of self awareness or self growth, and
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: so you know, the dark Knight of the soul crossing,
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: the abyss, the Negredo stage, all of these things. Chapel
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: perailyss is kind of another term that's used to speak
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: to this period of time where there can be significant
• 34:08
  Speaker 6: destabilization or de identification with self. And so it can
• 34:14
  Speaker 6: be a really difficult phase to navigate when you start
• 34:18
  Speaker 6: breaking out of some of the rigid thought patterns that
• 34:21
  Speaker 6: we've become so used to in navigating the world and
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: opening our perspective to much larger concepts beyond just our
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: individual self or beyond the personal ego. And so yeah,
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: that's that can be a big part of the journey
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: for sure.
• 34:36
  Speaker 9: I could just say add that the chapel peralyst it's
• 34:39
  Speaker 9: a term that comes from King Arthur and the Knights
• 34:43
  Speaker 9: at the Roundtable, and the chapel perilliss was what you
• 34:46
  Speaker 9: enter when you're sort of going through an initiation into
• 34:50
  Speaker 9: a into a into a higher order, and it was
• 34:54
  Speaker 9: you know, it was Robert Anston Wilson's I mean strokempunions
• 34:57
  Speaker 9: to use that term to describe, you know, the dark
• 35:00
  Speaker 9: night of the soul or these periods of chaos between
• 35:03
  Speaker 9: you know, one level of understanding and a higher level,
• 35:07
  Speaker 9: and it's sort of I think it's a very noble
• 35:10
  Speaker 9: and romantic way of saying, you know that you're fucking
• 35:13
  Speaker 9: going crazy and you don't know what the hell is
• 35:15
  Speaker 9: going on, but you would calling a chapel perils gives
• 35:18
  Speaker 9: it this kind of, you know, noble kind of kind
• 35:21
  Speaker 9: of air to it.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: And also Stetisov growth and a lot of his research
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: with psychedelics, he talked about spiritual emergencies and he has
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: a whole book on spiritual emergencies and that would also
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: very well fit into a lot of what's going on there.
• 35:42
  Speaker 11: Dave, I have any other questions kind of a question
• 35:47
  Speaker 11: because it sounds like the book itself is guiding you
• 35:52
  Speaker 11: through this, but do you recommend having a certified therapist
• 35:58
  Speaker 11: go through this with you or can you do it
• 36:00
  Speaker 11: on your own as a solo thing.
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: So we've written the material with different audiences in mind,
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: and it's material that a lot of individuals have navigated.
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: On their own as they're so motivated.
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: Some of the earlier works, Prometheus Rising has a number
• 36:23
  Speaker 6: of exercises that you work with throughout the book geared
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: toward working.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: With that as an individual.
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: So if you're a self motivated psychoonod and really interested
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: in your own personal journey, it's.
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: Accessible in that way.
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: And the workbook that we're finishing up is intended to
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: be much more geared toward that, but also a compliment
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: where you may be working with certified practitioners professional therapists
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: who are familiar with the model and can be helpful
• 36:52
  Speaker 6: guide posts or be in a position to kind of
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: figure out where might be the best starting point or
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: where to focus. And so that can be an incredible
• 37:01
  Speaker 6: resource to have a professional who's first in that. But
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: we know that there are a lot of psychondaduts out
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: there that do their own self exploration, and we also
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: wanted to allow that material to be accessible to that
• 37:16
  Speaker 6: audience too.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you all right.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: Questions when people come out of like of a big
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: session with like cosmic downloads or.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Whatever, they cool, what's uh, what's your process.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: For grounding it without dismissing it without dismissing it.
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so at least I can I can speak to
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: the way that I work with When people have these
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: those type of situations where they have the big cosmic
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: downloads or large epiphanies, they can sometimes be destabilized and
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: or just really hard to.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: To process. They're there in the moments, And so.
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: Something that I emphasize for a lot of people is
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: that you don't need to make meaning of it right away.
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: It's okay to sit with that material and see what
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: grows out of it. You can consider that experience a
• 38:13
  Speaker 6: catalyst or planting of a seed that then, if you
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: give it the right environment, has the opportunity to continue
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: to grow and expand. And so when I'm working with somebody,
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: we wanted to kind of figure out how much of
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: that we want to leave open and how much grounding
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: might be really helpful if they are feeling very stabilized,
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: if they're having a trouble sort of finding themselves again
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: or finding a grounding. So we take into account how
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: much we want to keep open and keep kind of
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: soft boundaries around, so there are ways to work with that.
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: You know, if somebody has a big cosmic download, familial
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: or transgenerational trauma, or entity encounters or something like that,
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: that's where we would bring in exercises or integration practices
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: that are much more open in terms of the way
• 39:16
  Speaker 6: that they work. So it would be something like art
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: based or archetypal type integration. We do collage making or
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: music making and things like that as a way to
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: sort of explore that territory without locking it into defined meaning.
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: At the same time, if somebody is feeling really destabilized
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: and like disattached from their body, they're having a hard
• 39:41
  Speaker 6: time bringing themselves back in the body, then we would
• 39:44
  Speaker 6: take into consideration other parts of the eighth circuit model
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: where we would focus on, like circuit one, the somatic experience,
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: the somatic intelligence, and do exercises they really focus on
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: increasing introceptions, so an awareness around your body and what's
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: going on, so breathing, paying attention to your heart, rate
• 40:02
  Speaker 6: doing things that literally ground you, so going out and
• 40:05
  Speaker 6: doing horticulture therapy or gardening, or just touching the ground,
• 40:09
  Speaker 6: working with water.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: If somebody has a difficult.
• 40:12
  Speaker 6: Time in putting their experience into words, then you can
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: focus more on journaling and what would be considered circuit
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: three material. Whereas if there's more of an emotional dysregulation
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: or a hard time knowing how you feel about the
• 40:28
  Speaker 6: experience or attaching or processing emotions through that, then you
• 40:35
  Speaker 6: can focus more on what would be considered circuit to
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: material focused on the emotional intelligence.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: So it's one of.
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: Those things that really can be different for everybody depending
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: on where they where they're at, and what's going to
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: be most supportive for them to work through that process in.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: A meaningful way without.
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: Meaning making too quickly and pulling somebody out of the
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: potency of that experience.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Is that something that you've come across, well, is that
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: something you come across where sometimes people after these experiences
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: might feel like they're kind of stuck in between both,
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: you know, or like feel like they're not like I
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: think you kind of say to yourself, like they're almost
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: like kind of not fully back.
• 41:19
  Speaker 8: Yet, like you know, we so in general with psychedelic work,
• 41:28
  Speaker 8: there's like preparation the experience and then integration.
• 41:32
  Speaker 7: And in that kind of.
• 41:34
  Speaker 8: Post session prior to integration, we really emphasize on the
• 41:38
  Speaker 8: book we face and there's just it's that sort of
• 41:43
  Speaker 8: like you're coming back out of this experience. You potentially
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: have these downloads and maybe some realizations things you want
• 41:51
  Speaker 8: to work on, an integration to apply. But if you
• 41:54
  Speaker 8: jump back out in the world, it's going to kind
• 41:56
  Speaker 8: of be jarring potentially and jostle you, and you're going
• 41:58
  Speaker 8: to lose that focus. Like a like when you have
• 42:00
  Speaker 8: a dream, if you write it down, sometimes it's like
• 42:03
  Speaker 8: five minutes later even you're just like, oh, what was
• 42:06
  Speaker 8: that and you forget it.
• 42:07
  Speaker 7: So it's so important.
• 42:09
  Speaker 8: To take that time and that space to kind of
• 42:12
  Speaker 8: stay with the experience to kind of you know, even
• 42:15
  Speaker 8: if it was a negative experience, you know it felt
• 42:18
  Speaker 8: like a very adverse or challenging experience, you know, it
• 42:20
  Speaker 8: could be a really fertile ground for healing and exploration,
• 42:25
  Speaker 8: and so it's so important to have that you know,
• 42:28
  Speaker 8: that that that space to really explore those insights. And
• 42:34
  Speaker 8: as Doug said, there's different activities that one can do
• 42:36
  Speaker 8: to to further that exploration as you're bringing that into
• 42:40
  Speaker 8: your your real life, grounding that into your your quote
• 42:45
  Speaker 8: unquote like concess is reality experience. So I'm sorry, do
• 42:50
  Speaker 8: you want to continue with that?
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: Well, I'll just say that that some of that work
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: is also self driven when I'm working with people in
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: their integration of those experiences. So we have an integration
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: packet then we send out afterwhere that has a variety
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: of different approaches and and some of it is journaling
• 43:09
  Speaker 6: exercises as some of it is art based, some of
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: it is movement based, and then you know one's own intelligence,
• 43:18
  Speaker 6: you are sometimes intuitively drawn to a particular exercise and
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: that could be really helpful. So we do leave it
• 43:26
  Speaker 6: open as well, and you know, a lot of the
• 43:28
  Speaker 6: time we're kind of drawn to the different practices that
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: are going to be most supportive to us.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, anybody have any anything else you want to use?
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: I was I was wondering in regard to these different
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: separated substrates of the experience that you go through, are
• 43:54
  Speaker 5: these in these be correlated with brain weighs, states that
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: are specific like transcendental meditation or kind of things that
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: we can see, like you were talking about how it
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: overlays with frequency and color and you know, sound and
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: even getting into the seven chakras and the Earth itself
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: and the seven continent. I mean, you just look at
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: this reality is made up of sevens. So I'm just wondering,
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: is there a direct correlation between brain wave states and
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: and these experienced psychological states.
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: That you that you go through. It's definitely something that
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: we explore in the book.
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: In every section, as we're discussing a circuit, we discuss
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: neurobiological correlates and and where some of the research is
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: around that, where there's some of the brain research is,
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: so it becomes particularly interesting. You know, it's pretty well
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: established with the first four circuits. The first four ciccret
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: circuits are we considered the terrestrial circuits or or the
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: mundane circuits of developmental psychology. They overlap very well with
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: standard models of developmental psychology, and so they pretty much
• 45:12
  Speaker 6: pinned down a lot of the neurobiology as we grow
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: and evolve into adulthood over time. And that's that's definitely
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: in the book. We talk about that for sure, how
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: different hormone systems come into play during different stages of developments.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: Or critical windows of development.
• 45:29
  Speaker 6: But it gets really interesting when we start talking about
• 45:31
  Speaker 6: the upper four circuits, which are more of the trans
• 45:33
  Speaker 6: personal states, and so like circuit five that has a
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: lot more to do with that conscious development of our
• 45:39
  Speaker 6: sensory experiences and is associated with blissful, rapturous states. They've found,
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: you know, there's there's dopamine correlates, but really strong correlates
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: to the endocannabinoid system. And you know what, I saw
• 45:53
  Speaker 6: a paper fairly recently. I was talking about runners high
• 45:57
  Speaker 6: and circuit five is all about getting high in different ways,
• 46:00
  Speaker 6: whether or not it's psychedelically.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: Induced or just different ways of living life where you.
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: Feel the static state, the six static sensory state, And
• 46:11
  Speaker 6: for a long time, runners high has.
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: Been talked about as you're endorphins.
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: You get a lot of endorphins going and you feel
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: high off of that and it feels great.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: But recent research has.
• 46:22
  Speaker 6: Shown that it actually activates more of the endocannabinoid system,
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: so our own bodies cannabinoids that are activated during that
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: sort of state. And with circuit six, the metaprogramming, there's
• 46:36
  Speaker 6: strong correlation to relationships to serotonin. So a lot of
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: your classical psychedelics for instance, that activate that work on
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: the serotonin receptors. At the same time, there's a lot
• 46:46
  Speaker 6: of neuroscience taking a look at the dynamic between different
• 46:49
  Speaker 6: brain regions and networks, specifically the default mode network, and
• 46:54
  Speaker 6: so there's a lot of research taking a look at
• 46:56
  Speaker 6: that and how that changes during those type of experiences. Again,
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: whether psychedelically induced or induced through ritual ceremonial practices, meditation practices,
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: and things like that. There's a lot better understanding of
• 47:12
  Speaker 6: the sort of neural correlates of meditation and what that
• 47:16
  Speaker 6: actually does and allows to happen in our brain. And
• 47:20
  Speaker 6: with circuit aid, the most I guess expansive state that's
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: associated with the non dual states or those mystical experiences.
• 47:28
  Speaker 6: You know, they've been able to take a look at
• 47:30
  Speaker 6: will There's less people that tend to experience that, so
• 47:34
  Speaker 6: there's less research on it.
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: There is.
• 47:37
  Speaker 6: They are finding relationships to like waking dream states, So
• 47:41
  Speaker 6: there's a lot of similarities between what our brain is
• 47:45
  Speaker 6: doing during the rem cycle of sleep, the rapid eye
• 47:47
  Speaker 6: movement phase of sleep, and then these unitive or trans
• 47:51
  Speaker 6: personal states, and so there is more and more hard
• 47:57
  Speaker 6: line neuroscience that we're able to take a look at
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: we definitely do in the book.
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: That's great, you know, yeah, yeah.
• 48:05
  Speaker 9: I just wanted to add it might be good to
• 48:07
  Speaker 9: point out at this point so people kind of understand
• 48:10
  Speaker 9: the different brain circuits better, is that one of the
• 48:15
  Speaker 9: things that Timothy Leary and Robert Anton Wilson didn't developing
• 48:19
  Speaker 9: their model of the eight circuit brain is is they
• 48:21
  Speaker 9: correlated each circuit with a different drug and by thinking
• 48:25
  Speaker 9: about how how the different drugs affect us and give
• 48:30
  Speaker 9: you some insight into the different brain models. So, for example,
• 48:33
  Speaker 9: the first circuit, which is all about survival and and
• 48:36
  Speaker 9: safety is is activated by by by opiates or opioid
• 48:41
  Speaker 9: type drugs. The second circuit, the emotional circuit, is largely
• 48:47
  Speaker 9: activated by by alcohol, and the third circuit is largely
• 48:52
  Speaker 9: you know, which is the the intellectual or rational mind
• 48:56
  Speaker 9: circuit is activated by caffeine, amphetamines or cognitive enhancers or
• 49:02
  Speaker 9: what people call smart drugs. The fourth brain circuit is
• 49:07
  Speaker 9: activated by md M A or some people say valium.
• 49:13
  Speaker 9: And those are those first four circuits are basically the
• 49:17
  Speaker 9: circuits that they say are for terrestrial organization, for living
• 49:21
  Speaker 9: life on Earth, and for surviving on Earth, and then
• 49:24
  Speaker 9: the four higher circuits are they postulated for living beyond
• 49:29
  Speaker 9: the Earth, for living in zero gravity, for living in
• 49:32
  Speaker 9: a post larval or post human stage of existence that
• 49:35
  Speaker 9: we're evolving to in the future. And they think that,
• 49:39
  Speaker 9: you know, just being in zero gravity helps to activate
• 49:43
  Speaker 9: these circuits. For example, Edgar Mitchell I think he was
• 49:48
  Speaker 9: the third or fourth man to walk on the Moon.
• 49:50
  Speaker 9: I interviewed him for one of my books, and he
• 49:52
  Speaker 9: described how when he was in an outer space he
• 49:55
  Speaker 9: had these very profound mystical and psychic experiences that almost
• 49:59
  Speaker 9: sound like a profound LSD trip. And then so there's
• 50:03
  Speaker 9: the four higher circuits. The fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth
• 50:07
  Speaker 9: circuit are are activated by by cannabis, by by l
• 50:13
  Speaker 9: s D, by you know, by magic mushrooms, ayahuasca. And
• 50:17
  Speaker 9: then the highest circuit, the eighth circuit is is activated
• 50:21
  Speaker 9: by by ketamine or or d M T. So. So
• 50:25
  Speaker 9: these that's why I discussed at the beginning how it
• 50:28
  Speaker 9: was such an interesting map for being able to to
• 50:31
  Speaker 9: being able to fight a framework for these for these
• 50:34
  Speaker 9: different states of consciousness that different drugs produce. But but
• 50:37
  Speaker 9: with all these all these different states are of course
• 50:40
  Speaker 9: they're they're there because there there's a circuit or there's
• 50:42
  Speaker 9: a there's a uh you know, a portion of the
• 50:45
  Speaker 9: brain that that you know, the corresponds to these and
• 50:49
  Speaker 9: they wouldn't you know, it's not like the drug is
• 50:50
  Speaker 9: producing it. They're already lying there late. And there's course,
• 50:53
  Speaker 9: you know, they can be accessed to many other different
• 50:56
  Speaker 9: ways besides drugs, but drugs are a clear, easy way
• 50:58
  Speaker 9: of understanding them. So anyway, I hope that provides some
• 51:03
  Speaker 9: additional insight into this.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, thank you, That was great.
• 51:11
  Speaker 7: Mhm.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: How do you guys deal with I think before were
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: you saying like you kind of classify like entities or deities.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: I wanted to ask, like, how do you treat entities
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: and visions as literal psychological or both? Or how do
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: you decide in session of the classify things.
• 51:29
  Speaker 6: I think David might have the expertise here.
• 51:33
  Speaker 9: Well, I mean, I don't. I don't. I don't work
• 51:35
  Speaker 9: with people like like like Doug and Rachel do. I mean,
• 51:38
  Speaker 9: I'm not a therapist, but but I mean I I
• 51:42
  Speaker 9: I've just read a book on you know, and cataloging
• 51:45
  Speaker 9: the different entities that that people report during their mostly
• 51:49
  Speaker 9: during their their d m T or DI mental trip
• 51:51
  Speaker 9: to mean experiences and uh and how how do how
• 51:55
  Speaker 9: do I treat them? I mean, I treat them like
• 51:56
  Speaker 9: a mystery or a profound mystery. I know, I don't
• 51:59
  Speaker 9: think we we we we know what they are. I
• 52:02
  Speaker 9: mean I explore different models for understanding them in the
• 52:05
  Speaker 9: book and in my own research with it that they
• 52:08
  Speaker 9: you know, that they could be just you know, hallucinations,
• 52:11
  Speaker 9: They could be projections of the mind. They could be
• 52:13
  Speaker 9: archetyped from the collective unconscious, you know, and or they
• 52:17
  Speaker 9: could be independently existing dimension you know, entities that exist
• 52:21
  Speaker 9: in alternative dimensions that we're really contacting. I mean, we
• 52:25
  Speaker 9: we don't really know, and we we never may really
• 52:28
  Speaker 9: know for sure, because I mean, I mean, how do
• 52:30
  Speaker 9: I know you guys are conscious? I mean, how do
• 52:32
  Speaker 9: I know anybody else is conscious? Really, there's there's no
• 52:35
  Speaker 9: scientific measure of consciousness. You know. All we can do
• 52:39
  Speaker 9: is base it on, you know, our experience and how
• 52:42
  Speaker 9: it seems to us. And and I can tell you this.
• 52:44
  Speaker 9: You know, almost everybody who has a you know, a
• 52:47
  Speaker 9: powerful experience with d MT, they come back and they
• 52:50
  Speaker 9: say that was absolutely real, that was you know, that was,
• 52:53
  Speaker 9: you know, more real than this. You know this, this
• 52:56
  Speaker 9: is the world that seems like a dream. So you know,
• 52:58
  Speaker 9: so so so based on person experience, they certainly, you know,
• 53:02
  Speaker 9: they seem intelligent and conscious. They seem more intelligent than us,
• 53:06
  Speaker 9: you know. But as to whether that's a projection of
• 53:09
  Speaker 9: our minds or you know, a simulation, or who knows.
• 53:12
  Speaker 9: I mean, it's a profound mystery.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, thank you.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: With the popularity of d MT and everything, I'm only
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: going by what I hear. And yes, it's basically through
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Joe Rogan, because that's what he's one of the biggest
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: advocates for it. It sounds like when he discussed it, everybody,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter who they are, always speak of the
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: same type of entities.
• 53:44
  Speaker 9: Then yeah, it's not necessarily always the same entities, but
• 53:49
  Speaker 9: we I mean we catalog in our book twenty five
• 53:51
  Speaker 9: different of the most common entities because there's a lot
• 53:53
  Speaker 9: of them that people doing, you know, very commonly encountered.
• 53:57
  Speaker 9: But I mean, really there's hundreds of different entities that
• 54:00
  Speaker 9: people describe. It's not like they always but you know,
• 54:03
  Speaker 9: the some of the most common entities are like what
• 54:05
  Speaker 9: they term the self transforming machine elves, the gray aliens
• 54:09
  Speaker 9: that people report. Also in the alien abduction reports, fairies
• 54:13
  Speaker 9: like the fairy sightings are reported. Reptilian type beings, octopus
• 54:18
  Speaker 9: type beings, clowns, and gestures are commonly reported. Yeah, so
• 54:23
  Speaker 9: it's you know, why these types of beings are so
• 54:26
  Speaker 9: commonly encountered, is like again, it's a it's a profound mystery.
• 54:30
  Speaker 9: You know, we really don't know. Is it are the
• 54:32
  Speaker 9: archetypes and you know what you know young would have
• 54:34
  Speaker 9: called the collective unconscious or is or are they you know,
• 54:37
  Speaker 9: corresponding to some type of genuine, you know, interdimensional species
• 54:42
  Speaker 9: that we're you know, we're on the verge of being
• 54:44
  Speaker 9: able to catalog in a in a more biological way.
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah so, I guess to your your question as far
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: as working.
• 54:53
  Speaker 6: With that with people when people have those type of experiences,
• 54:57
  Speaker 6: the approach is very similar to what David was talking about.
• 54:59
  Speaker 6: It's one of the those situations where you know, it's
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: it's a recurring experience that many people have. There are
• 55:06
  Speaker 6: many overlaps or very many similarities either in the entities
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: that are experienced or what that experience.
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: May look like.
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: But it also goes back to what I mentioned earlier
• 55:17
  Speaker 6: in terms of not trying to make too much meaning
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: right away out of the experience and approaching it with
• 55:25
  Speaker 6: a bit of an openness, a receptivity to the experience
• 55:29
  Speaker 6: and what might develop out of that, so you know,
• 55:32
  Speaker 6: you don't necessarily have to adhere to a perspective that
• 55:36
  Speaker 6: it is, you know, an external entity that is on
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: another dimension that we're getting access to, or you don't
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: necessarily have to immediately subscribe to this as a part
• 55:45
  Speaker 6: of my psyche that is being brought up and presenting
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: itself as this particular archetype.
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: But we tend to.
• 55:52
  Speaker 6: Focus more on what may what insight might be brought
• 55:58
  Speaker 6: out of that experience more so than what these entities
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: actually are, at least until we can do more research
• 56:07
  Speaker 6: and get more information about it, and maybe you have
• 56:09
  Speaker 6: a better idea.
• 56:12
  Speaker 9: And right now and right now going on is the
• 56:15
  Speaker 9: extended state d MT trial. I was just going to
• 56:18
  Speaker 9: bring that up, yeah, the Imperial College. And because normally
• 56:22
  Speaker 9: a d m T, I mean d m T is
• 56:23
  Speaker 9: naturally found in the human body. It's not actually a drug,
• 56:26
  Speaker 9: it's it's hodogynist and the human human system. It's probably
• 56:29
  Speaker 9: a neurotransmitter of some kind, whether we don't know what
• 56:33
  Speaker 9: function it serves, We have no idea. Again, that's another mystery.
• 56:36
  Speaker 9: You know, d m T is found in every animal,
• 56:39
  Speaker 9: is found in it's in every mammal, it's found in
• 56:42
  Speaker 9: you know, many plants, and no biochemist has any idea,
• 56:46
  Speaker 9: you know what what function it serves in any of
• 56:49
  Speaker 9: these places. So it's really a profound mystery.
• 56:54
  Speaker 6: We're learning not exactly the same, but similar questions that
• 56:57
  Speaker 6: are that are not coming up around ssalicida as well,
• 57:00
  Speaker 6: and it's strong association to the serotonin receptor as the
• 57:03
  Speaker 6: two A receptor. In particular, some of the more recent
• 57:07
  Speaker 6: paper system the last few years are are taking a
• 57:09
  Speaker 6: look at how molecularly almost identical silicen, the metabolite of psilocybin,
• 57:17
  Speaker 6: is to serotonin, and their speculation that the serotonin system
• 57:20
  Speaker 6: that our brain has developed, serotonin, the neurotransmitter as we
• 57:23
  Speaker 6: understand it now, might not actually be the original ligand
• 57:26
  Speaker 6: that the system was built out of, but it may
• 57:29
  Speaker 6: have been an adaptation of a relationship with psilocybin mushrooms.
• 57:35
  Speaker 9: Right, Yeah, And let me just also, I was going
• 57:37
  Speaker 9: to say about the d mt X trials that are
• 57:40
  Speaker 9: going on. You know, d MT is because it's naturally
• 57:44
  Speaker 9: found in the body, the body is able to metabolize
• 57:47
  Speaker 9: it extremely quickly, so the experience only lasts you know,
• 57:50
  Speaker 9: five or ten minutes, which is why you know, when
• 57:54
  Speaker 9: people do it with in a n Ayahuascar grew, they
• 57:56
  Speaker 9: do it with an MAO or a monoimmune oxidated you know,
• 57:59
  Speaker 9: inhibitor which prevents the breakdown so quickly. But when when
• 58:03
  Speaker 9: you smoke, when you smoke DMT or vaporize it, or
• 58:06
  Speaker 9: do it in the kind of concentrations that allow people
• 58:08
  Speaker 9: to sort of enter into what people call hyperspace where
• 58:11
  Speaker 9: they kind of leave this world and enter into another
• 58:14
  Speaker 9: another dimension. That experience only lasts five or ten minutes.
• 58:18
  Speaker 9: And what they're what they're doing and at the Imperial
• 58:21
  Speaker 9: College in London and around five other places around the
• 58:24
  Speaker 9: world is there is they're using a kind of a
• 58:28
  Speaker 9: kind of intravenous system where they're where they're where they're
• 58:32
  Speaker 9: sort of keep peeping the levels constant in their blood,
• 58:35
  Speaker 9: so they can stay in this state for extended periods
• 58:38
  Speaker 9: of time, for you know, for a half an hour,
• 58:40
  Speaker 9: an hour, or potentially much longer. So this will give us,
• 58:44
  Speaker 9: you know, greater opportunity to be able to dialogue with
• 58:47
  Speaker 9: these entities and be able to see if there's really
• 58:50
  Speaker 9: some kind of some kind of reality to this. I
• 58:53
  Speaker 9: don't know what the proof would be, but you know,
• 58:55
  Speaker 9: but if we can come back with some kind of
• 58:57
  Speaker 9: new scientific knowledge or or you know, tech logical brute
• 59:00
  Speaker 9: plants to create starships or time machines or matter transporters
• 59:05
  Speaker 9: or new forms of energy or I don't know what
• 59:07
  Speaker 9: kind of science fiction technologies could come out of it,
• 59:09
  Speaker 9: but that would not constitute some type of genuine evidence
• 59:12
  Speaker 9: that these that these entities really have an independent existence.
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: Right right, It's very interesting for sure.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Doug, how how do you administer it? I guess.
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: How do we administer it?
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so we work exclusively with psilocybin over here in Oregon.
• 59:31
  Speaker 6: That's what's that's what's legalized, and that's what we're able
• 59:34
  Speaker 6: to get people access to. Uh. So it's it's either
• 59:37
  Speaker 6: dried dried mushrooms, dried fruit and body. Some of it
• 59:41
  Speaker 6: comes as a homogenized powder form. Uh And we're usually
• 59:45
  Speaker 6: at this point most people are pairing that with orange
• 59:48
  Speaker 6: juice or lemon juice because it helps metabolize the mushrooms faster,
• 59:51
  Speaker 6: so it's less demand on the system. But now we've
• 59:54
  Speaker 6: got a couple of companies that are making gummies and chocolates.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Wow, God, how long is that? How long does that
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: normally last? One?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 6: It's usually depending on the dose, four or five hours
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 6: or so, but I mean individvidual metabolism definitely varies. I've
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 6: had some people who metabolize it particularly quickly. I mean,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 6: psilocybin as a whole is metabolized pretty quickly. Most of
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 6: it's out of your system by the time your trip
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 6: is done. But the actual trip itself, some people will
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 6: come out of it, you know, two three hours.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: It's relatively short.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 6: And we've had some people that are slow metabolizers and
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: they've had ten eleven hour journeys. So it's one of
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 6: those things when I'm working with people, we set aside
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 6: the whole day just in case.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Awesome, anybody have any questions, I do, and it's for everyone.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: If you guys do your own spiritual practices, have you
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: found that you have been able to hit that those
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: points through your own practices without the assistance of these.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 7: Uh with these drugs.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: Yes, if so, if you can share, you.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: Can, Yeah, you can there's certain breathing techniques through the
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: nostrils that you can do to enter certain states of SOMEBODI.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: There's there's different ways to enter into these different mind states,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: and you know, a lot of I think, uh, when
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: you look at the drug angle of it, it's the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: quick way.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: To open the door.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: And a lot of times, once you open the door,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: you know, like al of the Suxley says, you know,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: those are the doors of perception. And once those doors
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: are open, then they remain open. So it's a matter
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: of training your brain through some of these extemporaneous you know,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 5: processes to be able to recreate those without.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: The use of substances.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: So it can be yes, it can be done, for sure.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 9: The most the most powerful technique that I know for
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 9: being able to access these other states of consciousness is
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 9: what's called lucid dreaming or or or the practice of
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 9: becoming conscious and aware in your dreams so that you
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 9: wake up in the dream and you realize that you're
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 9: dreaming while it's actually happening, and then you can actually
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 9: act within the dream. And one of the amazing things
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 9: is that when you're inside of a dream, you can
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 9: do a drug you can do what you can. You
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 9: can do cannabis or in the dream and they have
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 9: the real effects in the dream. So that's that's certainly
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 9: a way of actually experiencing this without actually doing any
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 9: physical drugs. But it really works. I've done it many,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 9: many times, and it's a it's a very very powerful
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 9: technique and it's something anybody can learn. There's you know,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 9: to go online and look at the basic techniques. I
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 9: don't have time to go into them right now, but
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 9: in another future podcast if you're if you're interested, I'll
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 9: be happy to explain the different techniques for dreaming. But
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 9: they're a very very powerful way of accessing these different
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 9: states of consciousness without drugs.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: And do you think when you enter into those lucid
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: dream states that your body is taking advantage of the
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: androgynists substances your own system produces, because I know.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 9: That's a great question. I mean, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 9: sorry going Oh.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 5: I've just noticed when I have become lucid in my
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: dreams that everything becomes brighter and I get a feeling
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: that starts in the head and moves down that's almost electric.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: So I think that there, you know, I think that
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: in combination with the mental processes, I think there's also
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 5: some sort of a physical switch that your body may
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: be participating with as well.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean it's very likely. I mean there hasn't
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 9: been any research done in this at all, but yeah,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 9: I think that's a fascinating question and it would be
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 9: wonderful and if you tune to really explore that greater depth.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 6: Right, absolutely, Yeah, And in the book we talk about
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 6: that as well. Psychedelics can work as it's a fairly easily,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 6: reliably reproducible catalyst for these these altered states of consciousness,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 6: But there have been practices across culturally around the world
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 6: for a very very long time that allow somebody to
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 6: develop or reach these non orinary states of consciousness.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: So meditation, for sure.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 6: They've found that the neural correl it's what's going on
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 6: in the brain in meditative states, has a lot of
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 6: similarity with some of the drug in these states, so
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 6: that the psychedelics happen to be a realm that Rachel
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 6: and I work within. But my own journey working with
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 6: these and my exploration, while psychedelics were an early influence you,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 6: it's rarely, really really rarely personally work with psychedelics anymore
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 6: because I've found the other ways to be able to
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 6: access this. So working with meditation, the alternating nostril breathing
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 6: or pranayama breathing practices, holotropic breathwork developed by Stanislav Growth
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 6: is an incredibly potent way to just alter your breathing
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 6: and reach these states with.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: Something that you don't have to ingest, you don't have
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: to take anything in. It's completely free.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 6: It's an awareness and a development of your own body
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 6: to be able to reach these states.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: And again, ritual and ceremonial practices and.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 6: Those sorts of things are all also geared toward immersing
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 6: yourself or developing states of gnosis to be able to
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 6: tap into these. And again the neurological neurobiological correlates of
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 6: what's going on in those states, the same sort of
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 6: things are happening. So the deep meditative states holotropic breathwork
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 6: has been shown to do many of the same things
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 6: that like your classical Sarah schnurdic LSD psilocybin is doing,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 6: or there's technological ways to do it now. So there's
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 6: things like the God Machine that stimulates different areas of
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 6: your brain and can bring on these mystical non dual states.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Not one of those.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 5: Well, I saw an interview with the Buddhist monk and
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 5: they actually, you know, use the God machine, the helmet,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: and he said, he said, that brings you instantly to
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 5: what I've been working like fifteen sixteen years to be
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 5: able to do with my own brain.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it is very.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 5: Interesting when you start getting into these mechanical electrical phenomena
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: incorporated with the you know, and that's where you get
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 5: into Timothy Larry there towards the end, I saw one
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: of his lectures where he was talking about the digital
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 5: mindscape in regard to the merger of the digital and
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: the human phenomena per se to take you even to
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: higher potential levels, you know, the virtual reality work.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, there there's also there's there's research at the
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 9: Max Planks Institute in Germany uh lucid dreaming research where
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 9: they used that trans cranial brain stimulation this little band
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 9: are on people's heads and when people are dreaming, the
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 9: transcrannial brain stimulation activates the prefrontal cortex and that basically
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 9: triggers lucid dream activity in people who are just dreaming.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 9: So that that's a technology that is being miniaturized and
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 9: mass produced, and it won't be long before we have
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 9: little just little headbands you can wear when you go
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 9: to sleep that allow you to locid dream at the
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 9: come on command.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 8: Right right, Yeah, TEG, were you going to say something
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 8: about like neurogender acupuncture.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: I certainly can if you I made sure.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 6: Those are other tools that I utilize in a couple
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 6: of different realms within my clinical practice, I've done some
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 6: exploration of acupuncture as a means of non invasive brain stimulation,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: So acupuncture over the scalp or use of photobiomodulation cold
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 6: lasers stimulate different areas of the brain, so you can
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 6: geared that in a very similar way, though it's more
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 6: subtle to stimulating those areas of the brain that can
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 6: induce those states, so inducing altered states of consciousness through that.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 6: People who may have familiarity with acupuncture knows that you
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 6: can get kind of acu drunk as it were, or
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 6: you get into this very relaxed, endorphin rich state where
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 6: you can feel in an altered state, and the neurogen
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 6: brain balancing is a form of non invasive brain stimulation
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 6: or neurobiomodulation that takes a real time EEG reading through
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 6: different nodes that are put over the scalp. It reads
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 6: what your brain is doing and creates an adaptive frequency
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 6: in real time that sends a signal back to bring
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 6: your brain back into coherence.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: And again you can create protocols based.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 6: On understandings of neuroscience and different brain networks in order
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 6: to modulate those or create change your alterations and those
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 6: brain networks too. And that's a really interesting one because
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 6: it's real time adaptive. So it's taking a reading of
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 6: exactly what your brain is doing and then sending a
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 6: frequency back, a signal back, and your brain's response to
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 6: that frequency in that signal is then read by the
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 6: EG and it's just this feedback loop that's bringing your
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 6: brain into a particular state of coherence. Just other tools
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 6: that can be brought into this exploration of consciousness.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 5: Well, and also learning to control those loops, Yeah, as
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 5: far as leveling them up or leveling them down through
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 5: the conscious effort of noticing.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 6: Absolutely. Yeah, So that's what you know. Conventional neurofeedback is
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 6: typically doing. You've got an EEG reading and you've got
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 6: a screen or an audio tone that you're you're working
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 6: with and with the neurogen even though it's completely passive,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 6: so you don't have to do that. You know, the
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 6: system is doing everything for you. You are able to
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 6: see on the screen what your brain is doing, how
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 6: it's responding, and you can play with that. You can
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 6: toy with that, and you can enhance your ability to
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 6: you know, change your own brain.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 5: Right right, And I mean this just watchs you right
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 5: down the road of frequency and reiki and all the
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 5: different waveform vibrations that affect the body on subtle you know,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 5: subtle forms.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, anybody else got anything that's good?
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Okay? Uh? Yes, what.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: I guess, like if you wanted to probably wrap it
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: up a little bit soon, but I wanted to ask
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: each one of these if you could, like, I guess, like,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: what would you like to say about this program that
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: you think like it can What would you like to
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: leave people with this, you know what, with the idea
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: of this and what it can.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: Do for people?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 6: Sure I can start in that, you know, this is
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 6: something The model itself is something that I've utilized, you know,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 6: throughout my professional career in different ways and understanding of
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 6: where people are coming from a big component of that
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 6: is sort of neurological imprints that happen early in life.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 6: So if we have a significant life event early in life,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 6: you know, early life trauma or something like that, that
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 6: can be very tied into a particular developmental phase, and
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 6: we can say that they have a very strong imprint
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 6: in circuit one and that relationship with their body and
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 6: or attachment and so being able to work.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: With somebody with where they're at.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 6: But also with the psychedelic realm, with the non ordinary
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 6: states of consciousness, being able to have a framework, to
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 6: be able to have an understanding because a lot of
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 6: people will have spontaneous experiences that they don't have any
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 6: sort of framework to talk about that, and that's one
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 6: of the big places that this comes into play. This
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 6: model that can be really helpful is being able to
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 6: have the language and the understanding that these experiences that
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 6: don't often get talked about, often get shoved to the
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 6: side or dismissed that it's something that's many many people
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 6: have had access to some people have greater access than others,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 6: And a lot of our goal with this is to
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 6: both inform people who may have these experiences and then
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 6: professionals that are working with people that may have had
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 6: these experiences but also don't have the framework with that.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 4: So, like my.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 6: Psilocybin facilitation training, there was a recognition that people are
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 6: having these experiences, the entity encounters, transgenerational experiences, unitive experiences.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: But then you recognize that it happens, but what do
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: you do with it?
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 6: How do you navigate that, how do you discuss it,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 6: and how do you help people work.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: Through that experience?
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 6: And that's really been much of the goal of this
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 6: work and what we're steering toward and developing training programs
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 6: and everything like that, is so that people are more
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 6: informed about these types of intelligence that everybody has access to,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 6: but not everybody has accessed them, and what to do
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 6: with that.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 8: So bring it back to Tim Leary, the thing for yourself,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 8: question authority, And I just feel like we're in such
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 8: a strange time in history, especially social media and scy
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 8: ops and propaganda and just you know, just this constant
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 8: bombardment of different messages and different agendas, and so to
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 8: really be able to question, as David we call it
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 8: your b asked your belief systems, and you know, as
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 8: a therapist, something that comes up like almost with every
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 8: client is this lack of a sense of self, you know,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 8: constant need for external validation, constantly comparing yourself to other people,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 8: feeling they need to conform. So it's being able to
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 8: have a tool that really encourages you to strip away
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 8: all the bs and really find your true self and
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 8: to live an authentic life and bring your gifts into
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 8: the world and fully. So I think like, this is
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 8: such an amazing tool, you know, using psychedelics potentially as
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 8: a means to catalyze that, but in and of itself
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 8: for just deeper self exploration. And if imagine, like if
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 8: everybody in the world was to really go into this
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 8: kind of a process, how much of a better world
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 8: this potentially could be. And my real vision for idealistic
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 8: vision for the use of it.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: Did see.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 9: I'm not really sure what I could add, but just
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 9: that if people are more interested and people are interested
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 9: in learning more about the the eighth Circuit model. Besides
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 9: Rachel and Doug's wonderful book, the Timothy Leary's Excess Psychology,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 9: Robert Anton Wilson's Prometheus Rising in Ontario, Wally's Angel Tech
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 9: or probably three of the three of the best books
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 9: that you can that you can get a foundation for
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 9: understanding this on and yeah, and I think that this
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 9: can be really helpful as we're you know, as as
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 9: an artificial intelligence is increasing and we're moving into what
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 9: you know, Ray Kurtzweild called the singularity, where where you know,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 9: computer intelligence is rapidly becoming a more intelligent than than
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 9: human beings. And and I think that having a psychedelic
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 9: perspective is is very important at this time in history,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 9: primarily because it raises ecological awareness. And I don't think
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 9: there's there's anything more important right now than the raising
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 9: ecological awareness during our climate crisis. I just wanted to
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 9: mention one other thing here, As my friend Sarah like
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 9: to say, I'm going to be real with you this morning,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 9: early this morning, I did some magic mushrooms and totally
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 9: forgot about this podcast. It wasn't It wasn't until Rachel
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 9: reminded me half an hour afore I did, and I
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 9: was like, oh my god, I forgot we got to
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 9: do a podcast today. So I don't know that I
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 9: was the most articulate today, and I apologize.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 4: And I wasn't.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 9: But but I but you guys have the honor. But
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 9: this is the only podcast I've ever done tripping on
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 9: magic mushrooms.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: So so there you go. I had no clue.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: You were very articulate. Yes, very articulate.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: That's wow.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: That's wasn't uh. You know one thing I did want
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: to ask too. I think I kind of got out
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: of it. You know, this is something I think it
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: even folds into the occult and magic depending on how
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: you're practicing it. Do you think with this you kind
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: of actually kind of reprogram yourself? Do you think that's possible?
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: Well, and it's not.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 5: It's deprogramming as far as, uh, letting go of the artificiality.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 5: Like you're like doctor Rachel, like you were talking about
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 5: coming to know your true self and letting the things
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 5: within your true loves and interest shine, you know, for
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 5: the world to see. And and I think that is
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 5: uh that, you know, the great stepping away. You know,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: it's like Tavis McKinnon talks about, you know, culture is
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 5: it's like a Petri dish and it's like growing and
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 5: it's doing its own you know, and you want to
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 5: step away from the culture and be the true essence
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 5: of the self, and that that, you know, requires going
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 5: through these phases of understanding and these levels of knowing yourself,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 5: and it's it's lifelong process. You know, it's a beautiful thing.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, And sort of in the subtitle of the
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 6: Big metaprogramming the multi dimensional Self, you know, the idea is, uh,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 6: different steps of sort of deconditioning or increasing your awareness
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 6: so that you have the ability to look at those
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 6: those portions of self that that have you know, dictated
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 6: how you perceive reality or navigate the world and being
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 6: able to sort of deconstruct those and recreate or if
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 6: you want to look at his reprogram uh, the way
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 6: that you're able to look at things and navigate things.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 9: I can add something about imprint vulnerability to that, you know,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 9: the famous ethologist Conrad Lorenz did a study many years
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 9: ago where he showed that when when when baby ducklings
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 9: first hatch, that the very first thing they see they
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 9: imprint as their mother. Usually it's you, the acual mother duck.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 9: But they he noticed that if they saw him instead
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 9: of the mother duck, they would follow him around, and
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 9: they would follow whoever around that they you know, first
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 9: saw when they when they first hatched, and and with
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 9: what Timothy Leary and Robert Anton Wilson did was apply
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 9: this to human development, that that as each circus sort
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 9: of const into being developmentally, there's a period of what
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 9: we call imprint vulnerability, where the circumstances that you're in
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 9: at that time, the environment that you're in, you know,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 9: in a positive or negative way, affect your you know,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 9: your orientation with that particular circuit and and then that
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 9: kind of sticks for life unless you make new imprints,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 9: and for most people they they never make new imprints.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 9: But what psychedelics do is they allow people to suspend
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 9: their previous imprints and then make make new ones and
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 9: hopefully hopefully better ones.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: Better.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 8: Yes, that's by the Catherine MacLean, the neuroscientists. She did
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 8: and studies on psilocybin and found that because it used
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 8: to be believed that around each thirty ish the personality
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 8: was crystallized and so you were kind of like this
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 8: is who you are for forever more. And so with
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 8: psilocybin it sort of loosened those the rigidity of those
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 8: crystallized structures and that you were able to then kind
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 8: of reimprint and you know kind of this you know,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 8: other versions of yourself as you whatever insight, you might
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 8: have had experience of awe, beauty God, you know, and
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 8: so helped to really loosen those boundaries.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 6: And that brings it back to kind of the theme
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 6: of the podcast as a whole. That's where the ritual
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 6: of the ceremonial work, the occult practices have also come
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 6: into play. Different approaches to being able to do that.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: What would be like, what are some of the ones
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: that you know when it comes to a cult practices.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: That you you know, like I was thinking of sigils
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: possibly as being used imprint.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, We really briefly talk about sigil work in relationship
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 6: to circuits six and metal awareness and an ability to
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 6: externally projected intention and then root that or see that
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 6: in the subconscious so that you're subconsciously manifesting that. And
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 6: that's absolutely that feedback loop of increasing that awareness but
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 6: working on such a subtle level that it's not right
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 6: there in your conscious awareness. So sigil work certainly comes
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 6: into play.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: A yeah, I assume, I don't know, just yeah makes
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: sense to me. Anybody have any questions before we wrap
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 3: it up, I'm kind of out for now. Unfortunately, I
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 3: have no problem, but I have no more questions.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 4: That's a pretty good good coverage of the topic.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll tell you one thing I would
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: like to I mean, even if I get you all
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: on separately on something else, I think I would love
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: to get you all back on the show at some point.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: You know, I think it absolutely really interesting stuff to
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: talk about and experience.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: Is you know, research definitely got my got me interested.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 9: Yeah, it'd be great to come back on the show
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 9: and me and right Rachel has completed a an oracle
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 9: deck for inner traditions. That's that's based on the eighth
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 9: Circuit model and based on the d N t entities.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 9: So yeah, when when that comes out, we'd love to
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 9: love to do a show with you about that.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: Nice. Nice.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: They actually normally send me people, so I'll let them
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: know they'll take you guys.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: On nice cool. Yeah, hell yeah, that.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: Would be awesome definitely, And I definitely keep you off
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: with the Lucid dreaming in the future, so cool. Yeah,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: we'll all definitely be keeping in touch if that's okay.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: Please everybody, uh Doug, please let everybody know where they
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: can find you stuff, what you would like to promote whatever.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, most of our mature around the eight circuit
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 6: model could be found at eight circuit ascension dot com.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: So all of our books, we've got some related books.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 6: To tie in some of the the I guess we'll
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 6: considered mythopoetic or or archetypal systems that are out there,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 6: so throw the ruins system the each sing. So we've
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 6: got some additional materials beyond our Facebook. Like I mentioned,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 6: the workbook's going to be coming out pretty soon here,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 6: not exactly, we don't have an exact publication date yet,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 6: but very very quickly we just sent off the last
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 6: edits there, so that's where you go for most of
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 6: our material is at eight circuit ascension dot com. We're
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 6: developing out training programs and continuing education courses and also
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 6: for the psychologically inclined solo practitioners being able to work
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 6: through that material and have access to working through that
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 6: as well with a little bit of guidance.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: Awesome, Thank you so much in Rachel, Thank you very much,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, is there anything or anything that you would like
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: to promote or tell people about your own stuff or anything?
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean I think John summed it up and
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 8: David already summed it up. Those are like the primary
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 8: things that you know have been the focus of my
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 8: life have been like this, this workbook and the courses
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 8: and the Oracle Deck with David, so super exciting things coming.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 7: Down a pike.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. Thank you and David, do you want to
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: promote any of your other books or anything?
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 9: Yeah, well, first of all, this is my latest book,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 9: The Illustrated Field Guide to the d MT Entities, which
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 9: was illustrated by by our friend Sarah Fan Huntley and
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 9: around twenty five other artists including Alex Gray and Luke
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 9: Brown and others. And that's sort of based on a
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 9: like a field guide idea of the entities like we
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 9: did discussed. To find out more about my work, my
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 9: website is David J. Brown Jay Brown dot com and
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 9: that there's a collection of many of my interviews I've
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 9: done many I've done over a couple hundred interviews with
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 9: different leading edge thinkers. Ever you want, from Timothy Lear
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 9: and Robert Onsen Wilson to Rupert Sheldrake and Albert Hoffman
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 9: and Jerry Garcia and Noam Chomsky and just many, many
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 9: dozens of brilliant minds and ask them questions if they
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 9: normally don't get asked about God and consciousness and life
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 9: after death and things like that. You can find many
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 9: of those I'm on. You can find me on Facebook easily.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 9: You can find me on Instagram. And if you go
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 9: on Amazon and put my name in you'll see my
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 9: sales page with the twenty books that I've written about
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 9: the evolution of consciousness. And anybody has questions who wants
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 9: to contact me can easily do through Facebook or Instagram.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, Wow, that's great. All those interviews, this is
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: the only one he'd de driven.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 9: Yes, the only one that's awesome than you and when
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 9: I wasn't planning on it either but.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: Got you no. Thank you all very very much.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 3: Again, this is a really interesting episode, a lot of
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: a lot of interesting stuff.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: Judith, real quick, let everybody know where they can find
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: you as well.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 12: Oh sure.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: First to the three guests, thank you very much. I
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: thank you very much for the work you're doing. It's actually,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: it's actually going it's gonna be How can I say this,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: It's going to rock the world once everybody starts accepting this,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: I honestly do believe it's going to make a difference,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: a huge difference, a most needed difference.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: So thank you for your work, and thank you.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 9: For coming on. Nick.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: And you can find me on YouTube at on as
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: the Loon, and you can find me on X where
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: I post all the time and I share all the
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: Cult Rejects shows I go on live on.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: X and I am the Loon at the Loon fifty
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 4: And thank you again, No.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Robbie Marx Pleisa.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 5: Yes, thank you for having me on. It was great
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 5: talking to you, doctor Doug, doctor Rachel David, some great stories.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 5: I'm very interested in picking up the DMT book. But
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 5: I would like to say that I am Robbie Marx,
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 5: artist illustrator. And go check out my link tree which
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 5: is link tree r M A r X and that'll
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 5: pull up my podcast, the Metamind Cast, as well as
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 5: all my social media et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 5: And uh, yeah, this was a great talk, good hanging out.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: Thank you for Robbie. I really appreciate you making it sure. Yeah,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: that was a great show. And like I said again,
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: hopefully I get you all back on at some other point.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: There's some really interesting stuff.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: And that's the end of another recall rejects, and until
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: the next one, everybody be well.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: Later