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169 - Getting to Good Riddance with Jodie Eckleberry-Hunt · The Dr. Joe Show

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How can we make the
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The Dr.
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Joe Show explores
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how you can make positive personal change by using his groundbreaking and.
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Join us now for the Dr.
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Joe Show with Mark, Styles of Styles, Lore and your host, Dr.
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Joe Strand.
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Welcome to the doctor, Joe.
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Joe, yeah.
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Welcome, welcome.
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Welcome, everybody,
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to welcome to the Dr.
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Joe Show, because now that you're here, we can really get going.
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We've got so much to talk about tonight.
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It's going to relate, I think, to everybody,
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because it's happened at some point, at some point in our life,
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we may fall in love with someone.
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And then tragedy kind of hit.
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We can be devastated.
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And Tom, I wonder with that, if you could introduce
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our guest for tonight.
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To my best doctor.
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Joe, it's it's hard sometimes
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to not talk to Joe.
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We're welcoming back an old favorite.
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You may remember her as the author of Move On
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Friends, My Friends,
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Jodi Echols, Barry Hunts.
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For those who don't remember, Jody Huckleberry Once is a board certified
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health psychologist who swears her way to sanity using cognitive behavioral
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therapy mindfulness humor, positive psychology and profanity.
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Jody has more than 25 years of professional experience, helping others
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find meaning in a crazy world.
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Welcome back to the Dr. Joe Show.
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Yes, welcome.
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Welcome back, Jody.
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Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.
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It is our pleasure.
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Yeah.
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I mean, as Tom was alluding to last time we had you on, you just published
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Move On that we can't say it, you know, found a meaningful mofo
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but this book takes on a very different kind of tone.
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It sounds really important getting to good riddance.
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Let's hear about Jody. What's the book?
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So I do I don't
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I do all sorts of therapy, individual couples, family.
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It just so happens that during the pandemic, I had a lot during
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the height of the pandemic, I had a lot of time on my hands.
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And I was seeing more and more couples come in saying Oh,
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we're just getting on each other's nerves, like all this togetherness
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working from home, no socialization.
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And most of those problems, we could work through.
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But I was also seeing a fair number of individuals coming in saying
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this is just the time I'm calling it I'm done.
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Or being on the receiving end.
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And so having seen that and having thought for many years,
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I just want to write a how to how to get through the initial heartbreak
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because I guess my big issue was that people would come in to see me.
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We would talk about what had happened and they would get to a good place.
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Then they would leave and start analyzing
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and re analyzing and second guessing and doubting.
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And then they would go back and start calling and texting
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the other person enhancing their own heartache and come back.
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And we would just keep starting over and starting over.
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So when you write a guide that people could reference in between their visits
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and just helping them understand what went wrong, how to feel better,
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but then getting to a place about to look at what went wrong,
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how do I know myself better so that I can change
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some of the patterns that keep me coming back to the same place?
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Yeah,
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and it's I think, again, it's
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something that we've all experienced it or not
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at different ages of our lives and different meaningful moments.
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And there was in the beginning of the book,
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there's this quote
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I think the reason breakups hurt
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even more than the death of a loved one
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is the knowledge that the other person
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does not want to be with you,
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does not want to be with you anymore.
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I like to hear more about that.
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Well, I think
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that is probably the deepest core pain in looking at.
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When somebody breaks up with an individual, that individual
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starts to look at what is wrong with me instead of looking at
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maybe it wasn't a good fit. Right.
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So that's all the self-created pain, the pain of I'm
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not good enough, or what was it particularly about me?
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And I guess I look at that as sort of a diversion
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or a distraction, but it's incredibly painful.
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Incredibly painful. Place
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you know what I'm talking about?
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I do. I do. And remember, you know,
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Dr. Joshua revolves around the I am approach.
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And this is the I see domain you know, how do I see myself?
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How do I think other people see me?
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And when somebody says, you know,
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we're done and you have to then
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come to terms with that.
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I mean, Tom Mark,
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does anything like this ever happen to you as you were growing up?
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I mean, everyone right? Never.
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I don't know.
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You're talking about you
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shove it down, right?
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Make it a barrier.
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Yeah.
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Denial is not just a river in Egypt, as we say.
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Yeah.
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It's it's hard, you know, but having someone abandon
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you, break up with you, say you're not good enough.
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It really does get to the core of who we are as human beings.
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Are we valuable or not?
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Can we just go through maybe the book?
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So you lay out some of the cognitive behavioral stuff right at the beginning.
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You want to just talk a little bit about layout of the book?
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Yeah. So
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I have it here.
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I and I think it's important for me to say
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that most of the time when I meet with people
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who are going through a breakup and as we talked during the break,
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it can be very challenging, even if you're the person doing the breaking up.
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So either way, if you're receiving
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or giving, this book comes in audio
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because a lot of people are just having a hard time concentrating
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and that's a big issue.
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Like they want to read,
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they want to understand, but they can't take it in.
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So as I talk with cognitive behavioral therapy, we all have our own baggage
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we all have our filters, the way we see ourselves, the world, other people.
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But you have to understand that.
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You have to understand the bias that you have
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And so I do a little bit of what I call psychology, one
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to one identifying your self-talk and understanding mindfulness.
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And I introduce a fair amount of humor.
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But I immediately get into how to cope with the breakup.
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A lot of times people tell me I can't even get out of bed
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like I'm having a hard time getting my work done.
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And so really, it becomes survival strategies.
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That's where I start.
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And again, if you're past that, there's still value in the book.
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Beyond that,
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Then I talk about grief because what you were mentioning earlier,
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having somebody break up with you, this rejection, you go, people
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typically go through stages of grief, like, whoa, this isn't happening.
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And the bargaining stage is that really tricky one where
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I will do anything please.
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I will change, I'll do better, I'll do better.
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And that's really,
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to me, a pivotal stage because
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you while I think we all
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should have we all have to work at relationships, undoubtedly.
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I think that's a big fallacy, this idea that if you're in love, it's just easy.
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It's not.
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However, You can't change
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who you are fundamentally as a person to please somebody else.
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That will never work if you're tend to be introverted,
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and your partner's extroverted and wants an extrovert.
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You can try to move to the extrovert side, but you'll never be an extrovert.
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So I guess what I'm saying is recognizing the bargaining can
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then set you up for another heartache because you're not being true to yourself.
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So some of the stages about acceptance hopefully, and moving on anger.
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Anger is my favorite stage because it gives people energy
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after that and move into love.
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And there are theories of love.
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I like to laugh and say I take the fun, all the fun out of romance
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and help people understand that we all have
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these myths or love stories, the things that we're looking for.
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And unfortunately, and this gets to, I think, probably
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a lot relevant to your theories
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about the social environmental context.
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People look at social media
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and I think they have a very skewed idea of what love is
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because people aren't being honest.
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And there are these curated ideas
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of what your relationships should be, and they're not realistic.
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And so people feel like they don't measure up.
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So really identifying love and by the way, what is healthy love?
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Just because somebody says they love you, that doesn't mean it's a healthy love.
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Like if I love you so much that I stalk you is that love?
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So it's understanding what is love, what is abuse?
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Because you may not have experienced a healthy love before.
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So I talk a bit about that. And
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deciding
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what your appropriate expectation should be.
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And then and by the way, again,
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recognizing that this can apply to a lot of different sorts of relationships,
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understanding infidelity and recognizing that just because somebody is unfaithful
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to you doesn't mean that it's a cure, a characterological defect.
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Infidelity can be related to just staleness in a relationship.
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I move into the bad actors, the folks with narcissistic tendencies,
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this people who are abusive,
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people who are overly dependent and understanding
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how to manage those folks in a breakup,
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boundaries and codependence,
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forgiveness, finding peace, and then finding the happiness you want.
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And I'm going to end on the review on that note and say
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one really important thing in terms of moving on from a breakup
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is being very clear with yourself about the things you want
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in a relationship and the things you don't want in a relationship
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and using that as a guide.
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And don't compromise what you want.
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You'll never be successful in happiness in a relationship
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if you're not true to the things that you say that you want.
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It sounds like a great roadmap to
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to manage
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what what really is.
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I think one of the most difficult experiences I've ever had
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when somebody said, you know,
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this romance is over, devastating.
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And then, you know, I think years later, I was able to to look back
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using the AM and say, wait, it may not just have been me.
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Something may have been going on with the other person.
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So I think you address that as well in this book.
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I think you can step back and look again at
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what happened in the relationships.
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Well, and, you know, the idea that you're going to be a perfect fit for
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everybody out there is just not is just not realistic.
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And why would you want to force it on somebody else?
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I think, again, a core expectation should be
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you want somebody who can't wait to be with you and
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it's just not realistic to think that that's going to be everybody.
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But just because somebody doesn't want to be with you doesn't mean it's
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reflected of you.
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It could.
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They have you know, it could be a variety of things.
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People who maybe even like, for example, somebody who is dating
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somebody else who hasn't quite figured out their sexual identity.
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And I could take it personally, but it has nothing to do with me.
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It just that the other person is still trying to figure out
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that piece of themselves.
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So I think that's a good example.
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We don't know what everybody has going on.
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We assume we do, but we don't.
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And I mean, one of the things that strikes me about
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this is the most difficult feeling, I think, for a human being to tolerate
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is being powerless
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because millions of years
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ago we were powerless and we were like something that was about to eat us.
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So I think that that may be part of what is in play here as well.
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When somebody is breaking up with you,
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you begin to say, well,
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what should I be doing different
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You want to comment on that?
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Well, and that is
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that is a difficult question because there are some times
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we are behaving badly.
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And so seeing you, I'm not saying that you blow off feedback,
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but you have to be intentional and reflective.
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So if somebody is saying, I don't want to be with you because you're
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jealous or because you're controlling, you need to think about that.
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But if somebody is saying, you know what, I just don't I don't want to
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take it
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further or I don't I don't think we're a good fit.
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That's a different story.
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So there's not a blanket necessary answer.
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It's just being reflective. And of course, I'm biased.
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I think having a therapist to sort it out with can be can be very helpful.
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It can be.
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Is there a particular
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target audience for this book?
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Because you know, I know it seems sort of like a silly question, but
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can you apply this to other things as well?
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Not just romance like being fired, but being fired.
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Did you say being fired?
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Yeah.
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I do.
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I also think the answer to that is it depends on the person.
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If the person reading it is is reflective.
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I had somebody who read the book
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an advance copy and she said she broke up with Cigarets
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and she found this book to be so helpful
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in breaking up with her toxic relationship with Cigarets.
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Somebody else told me
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I had somebody else saying
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what the book and said they bought it because they had a toxic friendship.
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And so there was a they wanted to use it to break up with a friend.
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And that was a very emotional and difficult breakup with their work
15:15
because they had good times. Right.
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And that's what we tend to do.
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By the way, when we're hurting, we go back to the good times
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because that that feels good.
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But unfortunately, when we do that,
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we focus on the good times and we override the bad stuff.
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And then we think, Why am I doing this right?
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So indeed, it can apply to a lot of different situations,
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but it takes the person to kind of be able to apply that to themselves.
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And I saw you
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nodding your head enthusiastically with this.
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Well, I was thinking about groups that I had been a part of where
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there were a lot of fun times.
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But it made me a worse person.
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A worse person. Yes.
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Because I was indulging meaner, spirited parts of myself.
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And you broke up with that, that sense.
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It's complicated.
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So I mean, a lot of people left over time and we were like men
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or how did we get into that?
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And it's a it's a it's a long and complicated story.
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We have an episode with YouTuber Izzy No Bray,
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where we discuss that chapter of our lives yeah.
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So people can certainly refer back to that.
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But it but again, it
16:28
it's such
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an applicable book that it's not just to romance.
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It's what, what is it when you and your I see domain
16:39
are are feeling less valued
16:43
and how that triggers so many different things
16:46
in your biological domain and then you wonder,
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well what's happened to my home to me my social demand
16:52
and how vulnerable would be if in our home domain growing up
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you were not valued as much.
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Would you address some of that
17:02
here and there in the book?
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Yeah.
17:04
In fact, one of the things that I am super excited about
17:10
in this book because of what I was trained in a lot of developmental psychology.
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So I just love the developmental theorists.
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And Eric Erickson is one of my favorite.
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And I specifically go back to Eric Erickson
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stages of psychosocial development.
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So around what age were you learning certain tasks
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about mastering who you are and your environment?
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Being autonomous,
17:34
being industrious, all of that.
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But if you didn't have the healthiest of conditions,
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in terms of boundaries and what I say, and specifically boundaries,
17:45
being able to say no, being able to protect yourself,
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if you didn't learn that or it wasn't respected.
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So the example I give is if you had somebody who touched you inappropriately,
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that such a boundary violation, you grow up
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and at the time you didn't really fully understand it, but
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you grew up maybe not fully understanding what an appropriate
18:08
boundary is or that you have the power to say no
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or when that is,
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or if somebody walked in on you when you were an adolescent dressing
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and you said, get out, and the person didn't get out
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and you can lose your sense of voice, I guess.
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And so when you're talking about some of those things,
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I'm thinking specifically about boundaries, which are so important.
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Where do I end and somebody else where did they begin?
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And the responsibility for behaviors and outcomes
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and that's that's a huge challenge for most human beings.
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It absolutely is, yeah.
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How did you come up with the title? Well,
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this is this is honest.
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Whenever I would listen to people
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talk about their breakup story, they would come in just such anguish
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and in my mind, I was always
19:01
thinking, well, good riddance to that person.
19:04
They don't they don't make you feel good
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or no one can make you, but they don't contribute to your well-being.
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So good riddance.
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And I was always thinking, how can I get you
19:15
from here to good riddance?
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And I didn't say that to people, but it was always playing in my head.
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So I thought, what a what a good title.
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Great title it is.
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It is and it's it's so
19:29
cathartic to be able to say, you know,
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I'm done with you this, you know?
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Yeah.
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And in fact, I don't want to get people stuck in anger or resentment.
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Good riddance is it's gone.
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It's in the past. I've moved on.
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Write closure. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And, you know, one of the things I say is, you know,
19:51
you don't get over these things, but you come to terms with them.
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I mean, you know, this was part of your life
19:56
but if you can step back, when you can step back and look at this,
20:01
be mindful, do the reflection, wonder about it.
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There's amazing things you learn.
20:07
But in order to do that,
20:10
you have to believe that when all is said and done,
20:16
you will find value in yourself.
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Because if you're afraid you're going to find a broken person,
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no one's going to look.
20:23
Why would you want to look?
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Why would you want to explore and again, that's part of what the
20:28
I am is saying is, you know, you're not no one's broken,
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but if you don't like what you're doing, you can change it.
20:34
Here it is.
20:35
So if in the book, you explain the techniques
20:40
and how they work, so you want to just give us
20:45
a technique
20:47
well.
20:48
Well, OK.
20:49
A couple a couple of things come to mind as I do tell people
20:54
you are overloaded with emotion
20:57
early in the breakup.
20:58
So I just need for you to follow a plan which mean
21:03
which essentially means we flesh it out in the office,
21:07
get your posse together, and whenever you feel like calling this person,
21:12
have a friend that you can call first who's going to talk you out of it.
21:15
Block all contact.
21:18
Don't be watching sad movies or playing sad songs.
21:22
Don't look at old photos like block all of the input.
21:26
I do tell people, like if you're going throughout your day
21:29
and all of a sudden you get a text or a phone call from this other person
21:34
that you're breaking up with, it can.
21:36
It's very intrusive.
21:38
Like you can be having a good moment and then you can't unsee it.
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So it's just better to get rid of it.
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So those are some of the early techniques.
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But once you are starting to move on to the big one,
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I think is making that list of I have three columns.
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These are the things that I must have in a relationship.
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These are the things that I must not have.
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Meaning if you want somebody who doesn't gamble or doesn't drink
22:03
or doesn't use alcohol or whatever, and that the middle column
22:06
is these things don't really matter to me and don't deviate from that.
22:11
So those are
22:12
some of the things that and again, you could apply that to friendships.
22:16
These are the things that I want
22:17
in friends or don't want or in a work environment.
22:20
So yeah, you can apply those to a lot of different situations.
22:25
But one of the things you said I want to comment on
22:28
and given your background is working with adolescents,
22:32
I think that this will resonate
22:34
adolescents.
22:35
I don't work with them often,
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but I have worked with some and I know I probably drive them crazy a bit.
22:42
I tell them that your job is to date like crazy
22:47
because every single experience will help you understand yourself better.
22:52
So the expectation in that you're going to meet somebody and stay with them
22:57
is, in my opinion, flawed and not helpful because you've got to really date
23:02
like again, date like crazy, all of those experiences.
23:06
So even in adulthood, help you understand yourself better
23:11
and somebody posed this question to me recently,
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which was What is, in your opinion, the greatest psychological strength?
23:20
And my response after reading
23:23
the question was the ability to tolerate pain.
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Because if you can sit in the pain
23:30
and allow it to happen, you can learn from it.
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But if you try to escape it, you'll just repeat the pain later.
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You're just postponing it.
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Yeah,
23:43
yeah.
23:43
Being able to tolerate pain.
23:45
And I, I like the advice,
23:49
you know, eat as much as you can, but
23:54
some people are, it's so interesting.
23:55
They, they think that they, there's a person
24:00
and this is who I'm with and this is the only person.
24:04
But we treat it like marriage here.
24:06
Yeah, but, but, but my ultimate advice as well
24:10
is never lie to your partner.
24:13
Always be honest, never lie.
24:15
If you're going to be interested in somebody else
24:20
don't go behind the first person's back, because all that does is create
24:26
the subterfuge and the dishonesty and it's difficult.
24:31
But having that sort of honesty in relationship,
24:35
that's what you that's what you want
24:38
in every relationship.
24:43
I mean, it's about trust.
24:44
And respect leads to value balance of trust.
24:46
You have to be able to do that.
24:49
And friendship.
24:50
And friendship. That's right.
24:52
And and and everything.
24:53
You know, that's and that's why the book, again, is applicable to so many things.
24:58
It's not just about romance.
25:00
It's about all the relationships we have in the world.
25:03
What happens when a relationship doesn't work out the way you want
25:07
it, the way you were expecting it.
25:10
It doesn't mean you're broken.
25:12
It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you.
25:16
You know,
25:18
I talk about this in theater
25:21
and one of my one of my dear friends, Brad Mack, wrote about this in his book,
25:26
The Business of Acting.
25:28
He said, if if
25:30
if a director, a producer doesn't pick you for the show,
25:33
it doesn't mean you're not a good actor
25:36
just because you're not right for that show.
25:39
So I think it's the same thing in many ways.
25:42
I'm curious about the chapter that you have
25:46
about being addicted to love when you keep going back for more.
25:50
Can you talk a little bit about about the addiction to love?
25:55
Well, I, I, as I say, people ask me,
25:58
can you be addicted and I've heard that question enough times.
26:02
Like originally my first response was, no, no,
26:08
but I have seen enough times.
26:11
And what I mean by that is folks who feel
26:17
somehow compelled,
26:21
almost obsessing about a toxic relationship
26:24
and unable to stop themselves from going back, even if they can
26:29
look me in the eye and say, I know this is my undoing,
26:33
I know this relationship will kill me, I know it's awful.
26:35
And I have seen folks
26:38
just be
26:39
so destructive to one another and then can
26:42
and continue to get back together
26:45
and so I say, OK, whatever.
26:48
If you want to call it addiction, fine.
26:50
But then we manage it like an addiction.
26:52
Like, for example,
26:53
you may go back to alcohol over and over, even though it is destroying your life.
26:57
And so it becomes a matter of let's get in your head
27:00
and set yourself up
27:03
to make sure that you have multiple speed bumps or barriers to going back.
27:08
So, for example, if you're trying to quit using alcohol, I tell people,
27:12
don't have alcohol in the house, don't go to the bar.
27:15
Make sure that you're hanging around people who are going to be offering you
27:17
a drink and drinking in front of you until you're able to manage it.
27:22
Same thing I would say with the unhealthy relationship is just being
27:27
it comes down to a behavioral plan, in my opinion,
27:31
but those triggers are going to be there in future relation.
27:35
Ships.
27:36
And the as I said to you
27:39
earlier, I think givers attract takers.
27:42
So recognizing we all have an energy that we put out into the world
27:45
and recognizing that we might be attracted
27:48
to certain people because of unresolved stuff from our past.
27:52
And if we had an abusive parent
27:56
maybe we're
27:56
attracted to those characteristics in somebody else.
27:59
It's not that we want to be abused.
28:01
It is that those characteristics are familiar
28:04
so it's just recognizing in a cognitive way
28:08
and staying away from those things before we fall down that rabbit hole.
28:12
I've seen a lot of analogies
28:13
I'm picking up on a lot of analogies with substance abuse addiction,
28:17
though, that you make those comparisons here, obviously.
28:21
But also earlier you were talking about
28:24
you know, you have to have that group of friends.
28:25
You have to have that network that's going to stop you
28:28
from picking up the phone and grabbing that pipe or whatever,
28:31
you know, a substance, a bottle or needle or what have you.
28:35
I mean, there must be a lot of similarities in that
28:40
brain, right?
28:43
Can be and I think I say in here,
28:47
I don't know the evidence behind this, but I have no doubt
28:51
that if you're maybe thinking about this, the high of this relationship
28:55
and they put you in a scanner,
28:57
your brain is going to light up as if you were doing a drug.
29:00
I have no doubt about that.
29:03
Right.
29:05
But if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
29:07
Right.
29:07
If it's toxic, how do you tell somebody
29:12
you know, why are you going back to that person?
29:15
Well, typically,
29:18
I tell people
29:21
your world is going to look a whole lot different.
29:23
If we can detox you from this other person, can you trust me?
29:29
And usually I say, you're paying me, so can you trust me?
29:32
Let's give this a try. And
29:36
it doesn't work with everybody,
29:37
but with the people who stick it out, usually they say, who?
29:41
You're right.
29:42
It looks a whole lot different on the other side.
29:45
Yeah.
29:46
And to go back to that word, familiarity, there is a difference
29:49
between something that is familiar and something that is comfortable.
29:52
So there's two things.
29:54
We're not always the same familiarity.
29:58
We may be less anxious because we can sort of recognize it
30:02
that doesn't make it comfortable.
30:03
It can still be just as dangerous.
30:06
We need to be cautious with it.
30:07
What's happening in February.
30:10
So I I like all my books, of course,
30:14
but this book, I don't know if I can say the title or not.
30:18
I guess you can bleep me out bad ass stories
30:22
hope and healing and they show
30:25
I want I want
30:26
to write that one a long, long time ago.
30:29
But fear
30:32
and as Bernie Brown, fear of getting into the arena, Bernie Brown
30:35
talks about fear of getting into the arena and got into the way
30:39
I kept judging myself as not good enough.
30:42
And so these other books came out first.
30:45
And now I feel empowered enough to write this other book.
30:48
But it is a book of short stories about grit, growth, hope and healing
30:52
and recognizing we're all in the world together.
30:57
No one is alone. And sadly,
31:00
there's inspirational books I think are fabulous,
31:02
and I think people feel inspired by them.
31:06
But yet at the same time, a disconnect because not everybody's life
31:11
is like that and wrapping up in a bow like everything is neatly done at the end.
31:16
My stories aren't like that. They're ongoing.
31:18
Everybody is a work in progress and a journey.
31:22
But I want to highlight the things that make us that we have in common.
31:26
I guess so, yes.
31:27
That book comes out in February, and I am pumped.
31:32
It's exciting.
31:33
It sounds very exciting.
31:34
It sounds great.
31:37
And I'm just wondering whether it's
31:42
building on all the other experiences that you've had.
31:46
I mean, you say this is a book you wanted to write a long time ago.
31:51
Because I have learned so much from people.
31:53
And I think that that is the big
31:58
the big deal is sometimes people come in and they tell me their stories.
32:03
They had to work up a lot of courage
32:05
to tell me their story, but they felt so ashamed and isolated.
32:09
And when they tell me and I,
32:12
I am accepting of that, that is so healing.
32:15
And I I think sharing some of those themes with other people,
32:19
that's my goal is to help people understand they're not alone
32:25
and there's such healing and
32:27
hearing that other people have some of the same struggles.
32:31
You know, this is this is a very important thing that you are not alone
32:36
a colleague of mine can Duckworth's through NAMI
32:40
is going to be coming out with the book shortly with that title you are not alone.
32:44
And what what what's really happening here is this shift
32:48
finally moving away from the stigma
32:52
of mental illness and substance use
32:56
as if somehow you're a bad person
33:00
and you don't belong in my group,
33:03
which means people are alone and that's why they're so ashamed
33:07
to say anything.
33:08
But Jody, I mean, we're I think we're moving
33:12
into a really wonderful wonderful world
33:16
where I mean, granted, there's there's all this scary stuff is happening,
33:20
there's all the violence, there's all this.
33:22
But we can step back and understand why
33:25
people have felt disrespected.
33:28
They have felt alone.
33:30
What are you meant to do now?
33:33
So I think a great but
33:35
when when you talk about
33:38
putting it all together,
33:41
can you talk a little bit about that,
33:43
the final chapter in this particular book.
33:47
The Finding Your Happiness?
33:49
Yeah, I think
33:53
that I wrote that chapter hoping to get at one big myth
33:57
that we have about happiness
34:00
is that it should just happen to us.
34:03
I am a believer that happiness takes a lot of work.
34:06
It's not fun to think about that.
34:08
But as with relationships, I think we have to put some time and energy into
34:13
discovering our happiness, finding it and cultivating it and continuing it.
34:18
That's that sort of the sad truth and it really starts
34:22
with deeply understanding yourself, being honest about who you are
34:27
and figuring out what you want and not settling. So,
34:34
yeah, real easy, right?
34:36
Yeah.
34:37
Well, that's, that's I mean, that, that is exactly what the aim is about
34:43
who you are and why you do what you do.
34:45
And if you don't like it, you can change it here.
34:48
The four things that influence you, your home, social domain,
34:53
the biological domain and the I see how I see myself.
34:57
I think other people see me.
34:58
That's part of what getting to Good Riddance is all about,
35:03
is all these domains have now influenced you.
35:07
You're in a relationship that's done
35:12
and now what do you do?
35:14
That's why, folks, you really please go get a copy of this book.
35:19
It will give you an insight into what may have happened before.
35:23
It will help you to help other people who may be going through it.
35:27
And hopefully you don't go through it again yourself.
35:31
Because
35:33
we are social animals
35:36
and we want to be with other people.
35:38
So when we are rejected
35:42
all sorts of things can happen.
35:44
And you know what I will add to that?
35:48
I think that
35:50
we have to learn to be kinder to ourselves
35:53
because that we can learn to love ourselves.
35:58
And I think that
36:01
that doesn't mean that we have to celebrate every single quality we have.
36:05
There are always going to be things that we don't like, but I think that
36:10
in a breakup, it's a very painful time.
36:12
The judgment and all of that self-criticism is optional.
36:16
And that's you wouldn't say those things to a friend.
36:19
You wouldn't say them to a colleague, you wouldn't say them to your children.
36:23
Why are you saying them to yourself?
36:25
And if you continue to do that, you are not going to be able
36:29
to move past in a healthy way.
36:33
That's a great question.
36:34
Why do we do that to ourselves?
36:37
I think that there is.
36:39
Yeah, OK, so
36:41
this in my own opinion, I think that 11 reason is
36:45
that we're not looking into our own eyes when we say those things.
36:49
And we wouldn't say it to other people because we're looking into their face.
36:52
Right.
36:53
And we're not like
36:54
standing in front of a mirror when we're saying these judgmental things.
36:57
But there's an idea
36:58
if we beat ourselves up enough, if we criticize ourselves enough,
37:02
we'll somehow stop ourselves from making the same mistake again, when
37:05
in fact, I think we're increasing the risk of making those same mistakes again.
37:11
It's so interesting, isn't it, how difficult it is
37:15
for us to see ourselves as doing the best we can but even that said, I am
37:21
leaving that tonight.
37:22
So with the four demands, the I am approach,
37:27
the idea is we're always doing the best
37:28
we can, responding to the four domains of our home
37:32
domain, the social domain,
37:35
the biological domain of your brain and body and the eye see how I see myself,
37:39
how I think other people see me because the domains interact.
37:42
Small change can have a big effect.
37:44
You don't need to change everything.
37:46
It's what small change can you recommend to our listeners
37:50
in the context of break ups?
37:55
The simplest answer is stay off social media.
37:59
I think that social media has a profoundly negative influence
38:04
on our concept of relationships and love and what is real.
38:10
So that's a very simple answer, but I think more complicated it probably is.
38:15
Also goes along with your I Am approach is focus on what you can control,
38:19
and that is taking care of yourself.
38:23
That's all you
38:24
can control, and you can't force somebody to be with you.
38:27
And why would you want to anyway?
38:29
Yeah, I call it anti social media.
38:32
I really do, because it's it just can be so,
38:36
so toxic.
38:39
And you move towards the second truth of the I am
38:43
because everybody has an idea.
38:46
Everyone's interested in what you think or feel about them through their eyes.
38:50
You domain, which has an affect on their biological domain
38:53
because you know it feels different when you feel respected or disrespected.
38:57
It feels different when somebody says, I want to be with you or I don't
39:02
because you're part of someone's home and social domain.
39:05
You control no one.
39:07
You influence everyone.
39:09
You get to choose the kind of influence you want to be
39:13
Jody.
39:13
It's very hot.
39:15
Author of multiple books, including Any Good Riddance.
39:19
What kind of influence do you want to be
39:23
well.
39:23
I think it goes back to what we were talking about before,
39:26
helping people recognize that they're not alone
39:29
and that they are worthy of finding
39:32
the happiness they want and don't settle.
39:35
I think that is my my influence.
39:39
I want people to realize that they're not alone.
39:42
They're OK.
39:44
They're OK.
39:45
Not alone and valuable. Yeah.
39:48
And that they will be OK.
39:50
You're going to get over this
39:52
it will be OK.
39:55
Interesting, isn't it?
39:56
Because at the moment it just feels like this is all that happens
40:00
and there's brain science behind that
40:03
because your limbic system is activated.
40:06
Very difficult to think about the future, what will happen next
40:13
so Mark and Tom,
40:15
we actually have a minute or two left.
40:17
And how does this resonate with you?
40:20
Is Mark, you've got some sense
40:23
they may at some point be going through this time.
40:26
You're still compared to me quite young.
40:30
So some things maybe the the data, as many people as possible
40:34
seem resonates and will be you know, has been somewhat the advice
40:41
I've given them, but not within a, you know, real strength because I didn't
40:46
really have a reason to truly understand why but it makes so much sense
40:52
because the more people you meet in that you become vulnerable and intimate and
40:57
close with, you learn more about yourself right?
41:01
So keep moving and keep meeting.
41:04
Yeah.
41:06
And always be honest. Right.
41:08
Agreed. Yeah.
41:09
The never subtle thing resonates with me because I figure is it just me
41:15
that it's weird that we have a societal expectation to, like,
41:18
just find someone eventually to spend the rest of your life with.
41:22
Just share the same bed with every night.
41:24
Like, you better make sure it's the right one
41:28
for sure.
41:29
Well, that's something I hope for everybody who's listening
41:33
and to recognize that
41:36
you are valuable.
41:38
So make sure that the person that you are with treats you
41:43
with value
41:45
Jodi, thanks so much for coming on the show.
41:47
We can't wait to see you next February.
41:49
Talk about the new book for sure.
41:51
You for having me.
41:53
Good night, everybody.
41:54
We'll see you next week.
41:56
Starts the primary budget madness.
41:58
This isn't just to show them.
42:01
Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.
42:04
Go, go, go.
42:06
Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.