Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Feminist Movie Friday: Ma Rainey's Black Bottom

Transcript

Feminist Movie Friday: Ma Rainey's Black Bottom · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:04
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Smith and welcome to Stephane.
0:07
Speaker 1: Never told you Protection of I Heart Radio. And today
0:18
Speaker 1: it is time for another feminist movie Friday. I believe
0:22
Speaker 1: this one's coming out on Friday? Is it? Okay? Are
0:25
Speaker 1: we on time? We are all over the place, but
0:28
Speaker 1: I think on this one we're on time. Yes. And
0:32
Speaker 1: we have teased about this one because today we are
0:35
Speaker 1: talking about the twenty biographical drama film Marini's Black Bottom,
0:40
Speaker 1: based on August Wilson's two play of the same name.
0:44
Speaker 1: The movie was directed by George C. Wolf and written
0:47
Speaker 1: by Ruben Santiago Hudson and stars by Ola Davis Chadwick
0:50
Speaker 1: Boseman in his final film appearance. Which is why we
0:54
Speaker 1: kind of pushed this one off because we knew it
0:56
Speaker 1: was going to be a bummer. It's sad. Well, I'm
1:00
Speaker 1: not gonna lie, We're gonna get into it. But I
1:02
Speaker 1: did not realize how sad the play, and I should
1:04
Speaker 1: have because it was a realm and doing the realm
1:06
Speaker 1: of like those sad plays where it never ends as
1:09
Speaker 1: well as you want. But okay, yes, yes, it was
1:14
Speaker 1: multiple ways, also starring Coleman Domingo, Glenn Turman, and Michael Potts,
1:21
Speaker 1: and it was produced by Denzel Washington, Todd Black, and
1:23
Speaker 1: Dandy Wolf. It received a lot of praise, acclaim and
1:27
Speaker 1: awards when it came out, including being named as one
1:30
Speaker 1: of the top ten movies of by the American Film
1:33
Speaker 1: Institute and five OSCAR nominations, including Best Actor for Bozeman,
1:37
Speaker 1: Best Actress for Davis, and it won the Makeup and
1:41
Speaker 1: Hair Styling and Costume Design Award of the Oscars. We
1:43
Speaker 1: talked about that in our Women Achievements of twenty episode
1:50
Speaker 1: It's All a Mess in My Head. It also received
1:53
Speaker 1: nine in double A CP Image Award nominations. Bozeman and
1:57
Speaker 1: Davis also made history when they both want Best Actor
2:00
Speaker 1: and Actress at the Screen Actors Guild Awards, the first
2:03
Speaker 1: time at black actors had won both categories in the
2:07
Speaker 1: same year. So um and after watching this performance, I
2:12
Speaker 1: didn't know originally when the Oscar stuff was happening and
2:15
Speaker 1: they had this This was a big controversial moment where
2:18
Speaker 1: Bozeman had passed away and everybody was grieving, and the
2:22
Speaker 1: Oscars itself made it seem like they were going to
2:25
Speaker 1: announce him as the OSCAR nominated winner, and it didn't
2:31
Speaker 1: And it was very anticlimatic and everybody's like, really, dude,
2:34
Speaker 1: which Anthony Hopkins had won, and he was asleep during
2:38
Speaker 1: his award because at the time we was off, it
2:40
Speaker 1: was pandemic. Not everyone was there. But I have to
2:44
Speaker 1: say I haven't seen Anthony Hopkins performance. He was robbed,
2:48
Speaker 1: Bozeman was robbed his work in this film. I forgot
2:52
Speaker 1: who he was, And so oftentimes I get caught up
2:55
Speaker 1: in what I've seen in them. Originally so Black Panther
2:58
Speaker 1: that is in the back of my head, but that
3:00
Speaker 1: very like small talking but like big action person. But
3:04
Speaker 1: he doesn't use a large voice in Black Panther, And
3:08
Speaker 1: in this one he exuded everything, like everything resonated, and
3:13
Speaker 1: I could not help but feel everything he was feeling,
3:15
Speaker 1: the angst of it all, And I really was sad
3:18
Speaker 1: that he did not. He should have won that award,
3:20
Speaker 1: like no matter what, not for symplity, but for the
3:23
Speaker 1: performance in itself was incredible, and I'm very sad by that.
3:27
Speaker 1: I just went there. It was a phenomenal performance. It
3:30
Speaker 1: was very like electrifying, and I think every article I
3:34
Speaker 1: read mentioned like, Wow, what a what an amazing job
3:38
Speaker 1: he did, and all of the performances were amazing, and
3:41
Speaker 1: I was really impressed with I really loved that. I
3:44
Speaker 1: loved the costuming, I love the hair. I read an
3:46
Speaker 1: article right before this about Davis being very insistent on
3:50
Speaker 1: capturing that look and how they were able to capture
3:53
Speaker 1: that look of Mo Rainy, and I loved the music
3:57
Speaker 1: of it. It was just so immediately kind of pulls
4:02
Speaker 1: you in and it's just very very very important to
4:07
Speaker 1: this story and important to this movie. And I absolutely
4:11
Speaker 1: loved it. And the person in charge of the costume,
4:15
Speaker 1: uh and Roth was so meticulous. Even Davis was talking
4:18
Speaker 1: about how during the giant tent saying, which we're gonna
4:21
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about it had over a hundred extras.
4:24
Speaker 1: Roth would go around per person and make sure whatever
4:27
Speaker 1: they were wearing was to the tea as that timing.
4:30
Speaker 1: And she talked about how she was big into research
4:33
Speaker 1: and refused to do anything before she researched all of
4:36
Speaker 1: that time period and all of this individual people, and
4:38
Speaker 1: talked about the suits for the men, talked about the
4:40
Speaker 1: dress for Morainey, like all of those things, and the
4:44
Speaker 1: two of them were really great and collaborating and yeah,
4:46
Speaker 1: and that definitely needed awards. It also kind of like, man,
4:50
Speaker 1: I was like, you had this fantasy about the twenties,
4:55
Speaker 1: but we also know, yes, it was not a good
4:57
Speaker 1: time to be a person of color in general, especially
4:59
Speaker 1: black person. But the beginning and the change, and I
5:02
Speaker 1: didn't really think about the Great Migration, and I forgot
5:05
Speaker 1: about that. We had a comment like, you know, we
5:07
Speaker 1: talked about studying the black history and what that looks like.
5:11
Speaker 1: I know, we don't talk about the Great Migration and
5:13
Speaker 1: what that was. And still the overall segregation and racism
5:17
Speaker 1: that was happening, even though it's supposed to be a
5:19
Speaker 1: better opportunity. And I really am glad that we got
5:22
Speaker 1: to see that perspective here. Um in best conversation, and
5:26
Speaker 1: I will say, like watching there is a making of
5:30
Speaker 1: so if you if you get to watch that, it's
5:32
Speaker 1: on Netflix as well. Um, it's really great, Like it's
5:35
Speaker 1: just like a twenty minute documentary about the process and
5:39
Speaker 1: what they were doing. But the director was so adamant
5:44
Speaker 1: and all of these things and wanting to represent in
5:47
Speaker 1: uh not only metaphorically but physically all of these different
5:51
Speaker 1: things that were happening and talking about you know, the
5:54
Speaker 1: beginning scenes where you see them walking off the train
5:57
Speaker 1: station and they're getting looks because they're a part of
5:59
Speaker 1: the out there in the part of the town where
6:02
Speaker 1: black people weren't welcomed or once seen often there. But yeah,
6:07
Speaker 1: really good. Yeah, and I'm going to ask you about
6:09
Speaker 1: that because I did not get a chance to watch it,
6:11
Speaker 1: so I want to hear more. Um And as you said, Samantha,
6:14
Speaker 1: these are both available on Netflix. If you have Netflix,
6:17
Speaker 1: you want to check it out. Highly recommend high they recommend.
6:21
Speaker 1: And I know that scene, the opening scene you're talking about,
6:26
Speaker 1: I really loved and they were talking about it was
6:28
Speaker 1: something we've discussed a lot, is you know, not only
6:30
Speaker 1: showing this racial tension that was just you know, inherent
6:35
Speaker 1: and the lives of black people, but also joy and
6:40
Speaker 1: and the power of music. And that scene was a
6:43
Speaker 1: good It had both of them kind of side by
6:45
Speaker 1: side and it was really powerful. All right, So let's
6:48
Speaker 1: go over the plot really quickly. The story follows influential
6:53
Speaker 1: blues singer Morainy, who's played by Davis and in particular
6:56
Speaker 1: a dramatized studio session that took place in Chicago in
6:58
Speaker 1: the nine in the summer very hot. Um Rainy a renowned,
7:03
Speaker 1: strong willed woman and Georgia singer sometimes called the Mother Blues,
7:07
Speaker 1: had recently been contracted by white producers, and she goes
7:11
Speaker 1: to record at Paramounts Recording Studios in Chicago. One of
7:15
Speaker 1: her producers expresses frustration when the talented and seasoned Georgia
7:19
Speaker 1: Jazz band members Toledo Cutler and Slow Drag show up
7:23
Speaker 1: on time and without Rainy. The trumpeter Levy Green, who
7:28
Speaker 1: is played by Boseman, against the band's wishes, he has
7:32
Speaker 1: shown the annoyed producers, Sturdy votes some of his own
7:36
Speaker 1: compositions in the hopes of striking out on his own
7:39
Speaker 1: without Rainy. He's got kind of these like big ambitions
7:43
Speaker 1: and hopes. And I think, like, if you've watched anything
7:47
Speaker 1: kind of like Catillect records or dream Girls, which I've seen,
7:50
Speaker 1: have you seen either one of those seen Dreamgirls? Yeah,
7:54
Speaker 1: we know that during that time there was a lot
7:57
Speaker 1: of misleading, and we're gonna talk about it more. But
7:59
Speaker 1: this obvious that the elder musicians are like, don't do that.
8:03
Speaker 1: You're giving it to the white man essentially, and it
8:05
Speaker 1: kind of alludes to that. But he's thinking he's so big,
8:08
Speaker 1: has so the big dreams and is so talented, it's
8:12
Speaker 1: not going to be a problem. But so an hour late,
8:16
Speaker 1: Rainy arrives with her friend Dussie May and her nephew Sylvester,
8:20
Speaker 1: and by the way, and that she talks about how
8:22
Speaker 1: she makes her entrance when she walks out of the
8:25
Speaker 1: hotel and everybody's looking and this is kind of that
8:27
Speaker 1: rebellion and being like, y'all are going to look at
8:30
Speaker 1: me anyway, so I'm making a show. Y'all are showing
8:32
Speaker 1: disdain to me. I'm gonna show you disdain. And that's
8:35
Speaker 1: kind of the persona that Davis saw and it was
8:38
Speaker 1: correct of what who Mo Rainey was. And so she
8:42
Speaker 1: did that so well, so well, I love it. So
8:44
Speaker 1: she wastes no time in clashing with Thirt evands that
8:47
Speaker 1: so they've already worked together, apparently, and she knows how
8:50
Speaker 1: to work them. With joy Uh and the manager Irvin,
8:53
Speaker 1: issuing demands and refusing to record since her Coca cola
8:56
Speaker 1: was not provided, which she requested. Instead, she threat is
9:00
Speaker 1: to lead this and say that's fine, I'll leave here.
9:02
Speaker 1: I can record anywhere else. I know what you are doing.
9:05
Speaker 1: I'm not doing this. I can't believe y'all can't do this.
9:08
Speaker 1: This is also at the same time, she's all demanding
9:10
Speaker 1: that Sylvester be on the record. This is her nephew.
9:13
Speaker 1: She had promised her sister that she would take care
9:15
Speaker 1: of him. He's going to earn some money. Unfortunately, he
9:18
Speaker 1: has a pronounced stutter, so it's kind of difficult for
9:21
Speaker 1: him to do the opening lines. I do find it
9:24
Speaker 1: interesting that a there's a lot, there's a bit of ableism.
9:28
Speaker 1: I know we're gonna talk about it, because she's forcing
9:30
Speaker 1: him to do something whether or not he can't or
9:32
Speaker 1: her he can't. And then also the fact that I
9:36
Speaker 1: do love his attitude, So that's just attitude says I
9:39
Speaker 1: can get it. Just leave me be like I can
9:40
Speaker 1: get it. But everybody else is just kind of like
9:43
Speaker 1: oh no, oh no. And I don't know. I think
9:46
Speaker 1: we would have to look up. But you know, we
9:48
Speaker 1: don't have the amazing They didn't have the amazing skills
9:50
Speaker 1: and technology to edit because y'all, it takes me a
9:54
Speaker 1: long time to get us sentence together sometimes too. Let's
9:56
Speaker 1: just be real honest, but thank god, superproducer Christina can
10:00
Speaker 1: fix me in editing. But you know, so this is
10:05
Speaker 1: costing money, like they were throwing away records upon records. Um,
10:08
Speaker 1: so this was a concern, but not only that because
10:11
Speaker 1: of this obviously there's multiple takes. Everybody is getting atovated.
10:15
Speaker 1: It's really hot, and yeah, there's a lot of hiccups
10:19
Speaker 1: and getting to this point. Yes, yes, yes, yes, So
10:22
Speaker 1: there's kind of like this boiling over of tensions. And
10:28
Speaker 1: in a break between recording, Rainy tells Cutler that her
10:31
Speaker 1: white producers see her as quote, just a dog in
10:33
Speaker 1: the alley, that they only use her for her voice. Um,
10:37
Speaker 1: and this is part of her like which we're also
10:40
Speaker 1: going to get into more, you know, asking for coke,
10:43
Speaker 1: Like I'm making you all this money and you can't
10:45
Speaker 1: spend the money on a cocacola to get me that
10:47
Speaker 1: I requested, like knowing, yeah you're worth and slow drag
10:51
Speaker 1: walks in on dust. He may and a Levy having sex.
10:55
Speaker 1: So a lot of things. Yeah, and by the way,
10:58
Speaker 1: at this point you should know does he is in
11:01
Speaker 1: a romantic relationship with Mo Rainy And that's so that
11:05
Speaker 1: the very first scene when we see Mo Rainy performing
11:08
Speaker 1: in the tense scene which we were talking about with
11:10
Speaker 1: all the amazing costumes, kind of setting up how big
11:13
Speaker 1: of a performer she really is, what kind of show
11:15
Speaker 1: she really has? Like it's pretty phenomenal. We see that
11:18
Speaker 1: he's trying to he being Levy goes to the front center,
11:21
Speaker 1: which he's not. He's just a backup band, but he
11:24
Speaker 1: comes out to the front to show off his rumpeting skills.
11:26
Speaker 1: But he's also like eye contact with Dustie May trying
11:30
Speaker 1: to like hit on her and everybody sees it. Row
11:34
Speaker 1: don't do that, um, but yes, they end up having sex.
11:37
Speaker 1: There's this whole like weird exchange. Also good to note,
11:40
Speaker 1: like they do an amazing job in transitioning this to
11:44
Speaker 1: film from being on stage play because it still feels
11:47
Speaker 1: absolutely like a play but still movie. So the way
11:51
Speaker 1: they have these transitions, the way they set it up,
11:54
Speaker 1: you obviously know it was a play once upon a time,
11:58
Speaker 1: just so put that there so at there's several takes
12:01
Speaker 1: of the first track. The band finally nails it, Sylvester
12:03
Speaker 1: finally nails it, but it turns out things to equipment malfunction.
12:07
Speaker 1: The recording is so like his recording was off the
12:10
Speaker 1: entire time because rats had eaten the cord and everyone's
12:13
Speaker 1: really not happy. So the band members point the finger
12:16
Speaker 1: at Levy accusing him of tripping over something while he
12:18
Speaker 1: was mooning over DESI may Yeah. There's a lot of
12:20
Speaker 1: implications here, like, oh, you did this, and you did this,
12:23
Speaker 1: and no one's really grasping what is happening. They yell
12:26
Speaker 1: at does he manage? He's like, what am I doing?
12:29
Speaker 1: But further again, investigation reveals it was damaged done by
12:32
Speaker 1: the rats. Cutler, who is a religious man, and that's
12:36
Speaker 1: part of the theme, is a religion, God and being saved,
12:39
Speaker 1: essentially tries to mediate because they all take a break.
12:42
Speaker 1: So at this breaktop point, while they're waiting, the band
12:45
Speaker 1: goes downstairs. It looks really like is an obvious statement
12:48
Speaker 1: of where the backup band is in the dark room,
12:52
Speaker 1: little given, little amenities, you're just here further background, you're
12:56
Speaker 1: not the star. But they go down two tall and
13:00
Speaker 1: then they start having a bigger discussion about religion. They
13:03
Speaker 1: start talking about having a bigger discussion about um, the
13:06
Speaker 1: crimes against black people and how to have a relationship
13:10
Speaker 1: with white people and in this supremacy at this time
13:13
Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties. And then in this time, Cutler
13:17
Speaker 1: tells the story of a black man getting stuck in
13:19
Speaker 1: a small town in Georgia, a group of white man
13:23
Speaker 1: take his bible, teared up and forced him to dance,
13:25
Speaker 1: but uses the dance as saying he you are doing
13:28
Speaker 1: something that's against God, so you can't have these things.
13:31
Speaker 1: But before he could finish the story, Levy dismisses him,
13:34
Speaker 1: telling that if God existed, he'd care about black people,
13:37
Speaker 1: which isn't the case because at this point we've already
13:39
Speaker 1: heard the story, really sad story of Levy's mom who
13:42
Speaker 1: was traumatized and assaulted by a group of white men
13:46
Speaker 1: after his dad tried to buy property. So a lot
13:49
Speaker 1: of these things. So him being told he was man
13:51
Speaker 1: of the house, couldn't protect or tried and then got
13:53
Speaker 1: stabbed because he tried. Um, so he's angry, he's in
13:57
Speaker 1: which he one of the first things he says, is
13:58
Speaker 1: my mom called out to God, caught out to Jesus
14:01
Speaker 1: for mercy, and no one showed. If Jesus really cared
14:04
Speaker 1: about you, he'll stop me from attacking you to Cutler
14:08
Speaker 1: with a like he had a knife, and they were
14:09
Speaker 1: after they started fighting, so it was a whole big Again,
14:14
Speaker 1: these dialogues and monologues that Levy does is what I'm
14:16
Speaker 1: talking about. That passion because these are the things that
14:19
Speaker 1: you see. I don't know if you've ever in any
14:22
Speaker 1: audition for place. I'm sure you have, but you have
14:24
Speaker 1: to have these monologues and these are it. And I
14:28
Speaker 1: don't know if when anyone ever could HiT's the level
14:32
Speaker 1: that he does, but it's phenomenal when they can stand
14:35
Speaker 1: alone like that and you're mesmerized like that. To me,
14:39
Speaker 1: that's to me, award winning all of that to say,
14:42
Speaker 1: he does it, he does it well. He breaks your heart,
14:44
Speaker 1: he makes you angry, and in my head as a person,
14:48
Speaker 1: you and I have talked about religion, I was like, yea, anyway,
14:51
Speaker 1: yeah that's seen if the camera like follows as he's
14:56
Speaker 1: having this monologue and he's going through all of these emotions,
14:59
Speaker 1: so so mesmerizing and painful. But yeah, really excellent. Okay,
15:06
Speaker 1: So the band finally finishes the recording session and after
15:10
Speaker 1: they are wrapped, Rainy fires Levy. Uh, and they've kind
15:15
Speaker 1: of been at odds this whole time because he's had
15:18
Speaker 1: he said, like, I can improve your music. He's got
15:21
Speaker 1: this thing with dust he may like kind of the
15:23
Speaker 1: whole thing. Oh and he was really out of it
15:25
Speaker 1: that Sylvester not beyond the album. Ma Rainey believes that
15:30
Speaker 1: his ambition and his recklessness and his attitude are harmful
15:34
Speaker 1: for the band, so Levy goes to Sturdy Vaunt, the
15:38
Speaker 1: white producer, but Sturdy Vont tells him he'll only buy
15:42
Speaker 1: the music, that there's no market for him for that music,
15:45
Speaker 1: not gonna really make money. He offers him like nothing
15:48
Speaker 1: for it. This leads Levy to have a mental breakdown
15:52
Speaker 1: and he fatally stabs Toledo after Toledo accidentally stepped on
15:55
Speaker 1: his his new shoes that he had bought at the
15:57
Speaker 1: beginning of this movie. These kind of new fancy shoes,
16:00
Speaker 1: horrified color and slow drag leave as Levy cradles Toledo's body.
16:05
Speaker 1: The film ends with an all white bands, presumably Paul
16:09
Speaker 1: Whiteman's orchestra. From what I read recording Levy songs for
16:14
Speaker 1: Dirty Bunch, Yeah yeah, yeah, that ending. I will say
16:34
Speaker 1: again it felt very author Miller esk and I'm no again,
16:39
Speaker 1: that's not I'm not trying to compare the two because
16:42
Speaker 1: it's not, but that that level of melancholy ending, But
16:47
Speaker 1: it rained true. I think there's an also conversation and
16:50
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this in a minute. But
16:52
Speaker 1: the idea of finding black joy. I think that's a
16:54
Speaker 1: big conversation in the black community today because more often
16:57
Speaker 1: times that we have this need to see the sadness
17:01
Speaker 1: and the torture of black communities and black people, which
17:03
Speaker 1: is kind of the whole slavery stories, Like Okay, at
17:06
Speaker 1: what point are we exploiting their pain? Um and and
17:09
Speaker 1: absolutely and in this kind of I was like, I
17:12
Speaker 1: wonder what would we say about this play specifically, But
17:15
Speaker 1: at the same time, because the ending for Levy that
17:18
Speaker 1: that was shocking to me, But again it felt very
17:22
Speaker 1: like you know, Arthur Miller esk in that level of
17:24
Speaker 1: like just it just ends and you're like, what just happened?
17:27
Speaker 1: What just happened? But it's very like fifties, nine sixties
17:31
Speaker 1: like types of plays. So I wonder if that was
17:34
Speaker 1: kind of that mindset for August Wilson, because I'll never know.
17:38
Speaker 1: But the reality is, while we're celebrating one woman's success,
17:43
Speaker 1: but in the in the actual documentary are talking about
17:46
Speaker 1: this is the end of her success, Like this is
17:48
Speaker 1: kind of the end of the her giant career. So
17:52
Speaker 1: is it what or is this the dichotomy? And is
17:56
Speaker 1: it that she's jaded and sot knows how to work
17:58
Speaker 1: the system, and that's how she's leaving. It is on
18:00
Speaker 1: a bang, And Levy came in so hopeful in thinking
18:03
Speaker 1: that all he needed was dreams and talent, which they
18:05
Speaker 1: do talk about the documentary, and that's the way it
18:08
Speaker 1: was portrayed. And then when he was so profoundly disappointed
18:11
Speaker 1: that he took his rage out on the wrong person,
18:14
Speaker 1: meaning right, it should be towards a white man, and
18:17
Speaker 1: because he did not have the ability to do so
18:20
Speaker 1: at that point in time, it was towards one of
18:23
Speaker 1: his friends, essentially, and the trauma and the shock of
18:28
Speaker 1: it all. Yeah, but uh yeah, I mean I guess
18:33
Speaker 1: we should also I mentioned I want you to talk
18:36
Speaker 1: about the documentary a second, Samantha, because that's a great
18:39
Speaker 1: point now that you pointed out to me. I'm like, yeah,
18:41
Speaker 1: this is definitely a play, Like I can see that.
18:43
Speaker 1: It feels very much like a play, but we didn't
18:46
Speaker 1: mention in the plot. Like at the end, after the
18:49
Speaker 1: recording session is done, my Rainy is trying to leave
18:52
Speaker 1: and the quote nicer white producer is like, you got
18:59
Speaker 1: to sign this contract. Act can't leave without signing this contract.
19:02
Speaker 1: And she's like no, no, no, no, I don't want
19:03
Speaker 1: to sign it. I don't want to sign it. Eventually
19:05
Speaker 1: you just really pressures her into it, and she's I mean,
19:09
Speaker 1: she she it's not like she knows what she's doing,
19:11
Speaker 1: but it's definitely that feeling of resignation of like, well,
19:17
Speaker 1: it's also a plot point and understanding that she knew
19:22
Speaker 1: not too because it was the release forms, like that
19:24
Speaker 1: you can have it, but you can't release it her
19:26
Speaker 1: music without her permission, which I'm very surprised that they
19:29
Speaker 1: had that during that time because they did so much
19:31
Speaker 1: to take advantage of the black community, black artist, which
19:35
Speaker 1: was a big theme that she had been so jaded
19:40
Speaker 1: and so screwed over by the white people and her
19:43
Speaker 1: giant conversations, and that is gorgeous Davis's performance, and that
19:48
Speaker 1: that she waited to the mid last minute because she
19:50
Speaker 1: knew how many times that she would have to correct
19:53
Speaker 1: them for not following her instructions or not listening or
19:57
Speaker 1: not following her requests, including the Coca cola, which she
19:59
Speaker 1: just follow It was tired of them. It's like, fine,
20:01
Speaker 1: I'll get my own, which we have that really uncomfortable
20:04
Speaker 1: scene of the two young black men to her nephew
20:07
Speaker 1: and the other musician walking into an all white store
20:10
Speaker 1: just having a stare off. But then also the fact
20:14
Speaker 1: that she demanded pay for her nephew and they were
20:17
Speaker 1: going to take it out of her check instead of
20:20
Speaker 1: just paying them. They're like she was like, oh, hell no. Essentially,
20:23
Speaker 1: I was like, no, this is if I wanted to
20:24
Speaker 1: pay him with my own money, I would have you
20:27
Speaker 1: pay him. This was my demand. And because she had
20:29
Speaker 1: not signed that release for they came in pretty much
20:32
Speaker 1: saying I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. And of course
20:35
Speaker 1: the producer dude was really skeevy throughout like that. He
20:39
Speaker 1: is purposely that character. And to be fair, I feel
20:42
Speaker 1: like that's realistic portrayal from the nineteen twenties and what
20:45
Speaker 1: we've known, what we know of today when it comes
20:48
Speaker 1: to and we see it. We see the practices of
20:51
Speaker 1: executive producers taking advantage of contracts and of musicians because
20:57
Speaker 1: of their ignorance of not knowing how to read a contract.
21:01
Speaker 1: We could say that about being podcasters, and we've talked
21:03
Speaker 1: about this having ownership. Not we are not oppressed like
21:08
Speaker 1: the black community, absolutely not, but just being in this field,
21:13
Speaker 1: you and I we have learned through others of the
21:17
Speaker 1: mistake of the power of the contract and not being
21:20
Speaker 1: able to understand we need to negotiate from upfront, but
21:24
Speaker 1: not being able to because we don't have name recogmation.
21:26
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the things you and
21:28
Speaker 1: I've talked about many times, is how do we handle
21:30
Speaker 1: this contract thing because we're not celebrities. Celebrities can demand things,
21:34
Speaker 1: which is like, great, you you get all this us
21:37
Speaker 1: as like indie ish, Did I say that with quotes
21:42
Speaker 1: unknowns can't? We're just grateful to be here. And essentially
21:45
Speaker 1: that's kind of what happened with our predecessors. They were
21:48
Speaker 1: so new to this field. They didn't know what this was,
21:51
Speaker 1: so they had this giant contract and instead of being
21:54
Speaker 1: able to renegotiate, they just got bought out. They were
21:57
Speaker 1: suppressed and essentially controlled by those contracts. So we see
22:01
Speaker 1: it today. So I can't imagine how awful it was
22:04
Speaker 1: for them, especially during the nineteen twenties, especially during segregation,
22:09
Speaker 1: and not that that's not happening today, a little too reminiscent,
22:12
Speaker 1: I think to what was happening to them and how
22:14
Speaker 1: often they would have taken advantage of and Ma Rainey
22:17
Speaker 1: understood that towards that end of their career and made
22:21
Speaker 1: sure to hold off so that she got everything she wanted,
22:25
Speaker 1: including we didn't talk about this, including them fixing her car.
22:29
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right because she kind of and she's
22:32
Speaker 1: in a car accident and she's like, no, right. So
22:38
Speaker 1: what we see is they are trying to find the studio.
22:41
Speaker 1: They're late to get in there. They're like, oh, there
22:43
Speaker 1: it is a Sylvester slams on his brakes, he gets
22:46
Speaker 1: hit from behind by another car. Is a white man.
22:50
Speaker 1: There's a fight, and the police is trying to put
22:52
Speaker 1: everybody in the coal quote unquote Patty Wagon and the
22:56
Speaker 1: producer his is actually her agent. Irvin is her agent
23:00
Speaker 1: is able to smooth it out, and it's also getting
23:02
Speaker 1: her car fixed for her while she is recording. So yeah,
23:07
Speaker 1: get him. Yes, yes, we're going to talk about that
23:11
Speaker 1: more of it before that. I would love if you
23:13
Speaker 1: could go over kind of some of the high points
23:16
Speaker 1: of the documentary, Samantha. Yeah. So, um, as I'm watching it,
23:20
Speaker 1: of course, in Sel Washington, Viola Davis, um, all of
23:23
Speaker 1: the other players are in there. Glenn Turman is actually
23:26
Speaker 1: the one that kind of narrates the entire thing, which
23:29
Speaker 1: I was really glad to see. I love him. He's
23:31
Speaker 1: one of the bigger classical actors that I've seen throughout
23:35
Speaker 1: a lot of times. It was on a really big
23:37
Speaker 1: Criminal Minds episodes where they talk about racial segregation and
23:40
Speaker 1: him being growing up in a really racist state and
23:43
Speaker 1: what that looked like and finding vengeance and anger. Rightly so,
23:47
Speaker 1: but he's the one that actually narrates this entire documentary
23:53
Speaker 1: and they go from point to point. It's really nice
23:55
Speaker 1: about what it is, whether it's about the music, whether
23:57
Speaker 1: it's about the characters, the historical contentext of why this
24:01
Speaker 1: play was so important when August Wilson wrote it, um
24:05
Speaker 1: the behind the scenes on how they filmed it, this
24:06
Speaker 1: is where I found out and Roth was so meticulous
24:09
Speaker 1: in her costuming, and I loved it. Denzel Washington, I
24:13
Speaker 1: call it Denzel. I hope you don't mind it so
24:16
Speaker 1: And he is absolutely that smooth executive producer who was like,
24:20
Speaker 1: I'm just glad I got to be a part of this.
24:22
Speaker 1: I'm just glad we got to bring this on, you know,
24:24
Speaker 1: Like all of those things. It was quite delightful having
24:27
Speaker 1: each of the actors talk about their characters and why
24:29
Speaker 1: they felt it was so important. It was really beautiful
24:32
Speaker 1: to see. Um. They also brought on a Monty Perry
24:35
Speaker 1: who is a scholar for race law literature in African
24:38
Speaker 1: American culture, and she really talked about the background of
24:42
Speaker 1: the nine in twenties and the blues and why blues
24:45
Speaker 1: was so important at that point in time and how
24:47
Speaker 1: that really brought music to where it is today in
24:50
Speaker 1: the US. And of course I'm a huge blues fan,
24:52
Speaker 1: so this made absolute sense and I loved everything about it.
24:56
Speaker 1: Did I ever tell you about me going to see
24:58
Speaker 1: the play Mahalia Jackson Son Mahalia Jackson who was a
25:01
Speaker 1: Black gospel singer and blue singer from way back when
25:05
Speaker 1: this is when I was in Oklahoma of all places,
25:08
Speaker 1: and uh, we went to see this play. It was
25:10
Speaker 1: a phenomenal play, and the actress who did it was
25:12
Speaker 1: just kill the music because she was seeing it all
25:14
Speaker 1: the gospel songs. But it was very reminiscent to that
25:18
Speaker 1: to me, and that they were talking about just the
25:21
Speaker 1: black community, the the enslaved people really bringing music to
25:26
Speaker 1: where it is today and how important it is and
25:28
Speaker 1: how often it has been taken over by other non
25:31
Speaker 1: black communities, and I include everyone in this that's not
25:34
Speaker 1: just white people, but how it's been taken over, and
25:38
Speaker 1: she talks about the fact that how it translated to
25:42
Speaker 1: what it is today. Those are really great documentary on
25:45
Speaker 1: what it was. They talked about, of course Bozeman and
25:48
Speaker 1: how well he did in the performance, and they kind
25:50
Speaker 1: of gret up an homage to him. So this was
25:52
Speaker 1: filmed after his death, and it's just like, uh, I
25:56
Speaker 1: really wish he was there to talk about the level
25:59
Speaker 1: that he took it to for these characters. But yeah,
26:03
Speaker 1: it was really good. I think it was very short,
26:05
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes long. If that y'all should watch it,
26:09
Speaker 1: if you watch the Morainy because I think it's really great.
26:12
Speaker 1: We need to understand, as you and I have talked
26:14
Speaker 1: about before, the history of it all, this is a biography.
26:17
Speaker 1: This isn't about a woman UM who should have been
26:20
Speaker 1: known but wasn't really known. Bessie Smith came out around
26:23
Speaker 1: the same time, which we hear her name come out
26:25
Speaker 1: UM around the same time, and she got She was
26:28
Speaker 1: bigger than Morainy. Their style wasn't too much the same,
26:32
Speaker 1: but they were doing blues UM and even to the
26:34
Speaker 1: one point they said that Morainy really influenced Bessie Smith's music.
26:38
Speaker 1: We don't know that for sure. I think one context is, yes,
26:41
Speaker 1: they definitely interacted and work together and may have been friends,
26:45
Speaker 1: but we don't know the context of that. But technically
26:49
Speaker 1: I believe Morainy was before Bessie Smith when it comes
26:54
Speaker 1: to the performance layer. But yeah, so it talks a
26:57
Speaker 1: lot about that historical level as well. Of course, we have, yes,
27:02
Speaker 1: the conversations that Viola has about how she wanted to
27:06
Speaker 1: look and why it was so important that she embodied
27:09
Speaker 1: Morainey the way it was, and that that it was
27:12
Speaker 1: for her because she was a boss like and it
27:16
Speaker 1: comes down to the fact that she understood how to
27:19
Speaker 1: play the game unfortunately that's what it's called at this
27:22
Speaker 1: point in the end, and why it was so important
27:26
Speaker 1: that she holds to that and why this one small
27:30
Speaker 1: scene that we see because it's just one day, we're
27:32
Speaker 1: seeing one day, why it was important. And then also
27:36
Speaker 1: just the trivia stuff. Wolf really took some uh like
27:40
Speaker 1: he definitely kept the Broadway portion to it um and
27:43
Speaker 1: then the play portion to it. But he talked about
27:45
Speaker 1: the fact that he changed the seasons to summer because
27:49
Speaker 1: he wanted that the way you talked about how it
27:51
Speaker 1: was so important to see not only were they frustrated,
27:54
Speaker 1: but they were hot there and like this type of scenario,
27:57
Speaker 1: Chicago's really ridiculously hot, and of what it looked like
28:01
Speaker 1: for them to be all in a sweltering room, everything
28:03
Speaker 1: bubbling over, including the weather and the tension. So he
28:06
Speaker 1: did that on purpose. The scene in which we see
28:09
Speaker 1: Bozeman kicking the door thinking that he's opening the door
28:12
Speaker 1: for himself, but then getting a brick wall and he
28:15
Speaker 1: goes like that is absolutely metaphor to a lot of
28:17
Speaker 1: the black people today, thinking that you have an opportunity,
28:21
Speaker 1: that you have a heads up, thinking that this can
28:23
Speaker 1: tear you so far, but you have a wall, and
28:25
Speaker 1: that usually is systemic racism, whatever it is, but like
28:29
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely like it. If you get a chance
28:32
Speaker 1: after watching the movie, you should definitely watch that documentary.
28:35
Speaker 1: I think it's always good to see a perspective from
28:38
Speaker 1: Foam the Originators. So there you go. Yeah, well, thank
28:42
Speaker 1: you Samantha for that recap. Yeah, I was going to
28:45
Speaker 1: mention that because it's so throughout there when they're in
28:48
Speaker 1: this kind of basement area that, as you say, is
28:50
Speaker 1: sort of like where they put the not the star performers,
28:55
Speaker 1: and that's where a lot of these like intense conversations happen.
28:58
Speaker 1: There's this locked door that they keep Levy in particular,
29:02
Speaker 1: keeps like trying to open, and at the end he
29:05
Speaker 1: finally like breaks it open at his rage and it's
29:09
Speaker 1: just a brick wall, which was a very I thought
29:13
Speaker 1: powerful metaphor of fighting and fighting and fighting to finally
29:17
Speaker 1: open this door and there's just another obstacle in your way.
29:19
Speaker 1: It goes nowhere. I also wanted to touch on, as
29:23
Speaker 1: you said that, like the music was so powerful and
29:27
Speaker 1: important in this movie and August Wilson that was very
29:31
Speaker 1: vocal about how much he loved blues and how much
29:34
Speaker 1: it influenced his work and how impactful he thought it was.
29:38
Speaker 1: And it's just almost a character in and of itself
29:41
Speaker 1: in this movie. It was really beautiful, and I like
29:45
Speaker 1: how they comment on it directly, like some I believe
29:47
Speaker 1: my Rain even says like they call me the mother
29:49
Speaker 1: of blues will probably not people been doing it forever,
29:52
Speaker 1: but I'll accept if they call me that, like okay, yeah, yeah.
29:56
Speaker 1: They have some amazing quotes about that One of my
29:59
Speaker 1: favorite line is when she says the Blues helps you
30:02
Speaker 1: get out of bed in the morning. So at this
30:04
Speaker 1: point she's talking about how they're sitting in silence and
30:07
Speaker 1: how much she hates the silence, but even in silence,
30:09
Speaker 1: there's music in her head, and then talking about why
30:12
Speaker 1: blues does this um, and it's just like, yeah, the
30:16
Speaker 1: Blues help you get out of bed in the morning,
30:17
Speaker 1: you get up knowing you ay and alone, there's something
30:20
Speaker 1: else in the world, something's been added by that song.
30:23
Speaker 1: This be an empty world without the Blues, And I
30:25
Speaker 1: was like, ye, like yeah, absolutely absolutely changed so much
30:31
Speaker 1: of the conversation. And I was like, no, Okay, that's it,
30:34
Speaker 1: that's it, that's a less line. Yeah. Yeah, And I
30:38
Speaker 1: think um, as we've mentioned several times in this episode,
30:41
Speaker 1: the opening scene is it's one of the reasons it
30:44
Speaker 1: hits so hard is because there's this sort of implication
30:49
Speaker 1: of fear, and like these dogs ring from a train
30:52
Speaker 1: and then the camera comes to this big tent and
30:56
Speaker 1: there are all of these people gathered there and Ma
30:58
Speaker 1: Rainy is singing. And that's something we've discussed a lot,
31:02
Speaker 1: is the power of music for people who have been
31:06
Speaker 1: oppressed in finding that joy and finding that community in protesting.
31:10
Speaker 1: That's something that you and I have been talking about
31:12
Speaker 1: a lot lately with these songs that were so powerful
31:17
Speaker 1: and touched on things that were so painful. Oh, it's
31:21
Speaker 1: so necessary, but in that way being able to to connect.
31:26
Speaker 1: And I know, as we've discussed, I think mar Rainy
31:32
Speaker 1: she in the in the materials I read before, that
31:35
Speaker 1: she preferred those live performances. She preferred to have those
31:39
Speaker 1: connecting with people in that environment and away from kind
31:46
Speaker 1: of these white producers that are controlling her music and
31:50
Speaker 1: where it goes. And that was just something she she valued.
31:56
Speaker 1: So I feel like she was someone who both knew,
31:58
Speaker 1: like too how to work the system, um even if
32:02
Speaker 1: it was incredibly unfortunate, uh and and stacked a cancer,
32:06
Speaker 1: but she also clearly had this passion for it and
32:10
Speaker 1: this passion for writing and connecting in that way. Right,
32:16
Speaker 1: And I love that. I love the idea that Wilson
32:19
Speaker 1: was so influenced by this music, So you see that
32:21
Speaker 1: kind of inspiration, that power of how it can impact
32:25
Speaker 1: people and then lead to other art early to all
32:27
Speaker 1: these other things. Right, he did an amazing job as
32:31
Speaker 1: in fact, in that documentary they're talking about while August
32:34
Speaker 1: Wilson was researching, like they found seven pictures of moul
32:37
Speaker 1: Rainey while there was like hundreds of pictures of Bessie
32:39
Speaker 1: Smith and how he really dug deep to find this singer.
32:44
Speaker 1: And I find that interesting too, because we do finally
32:46
Speaker 1: getting to a point that hopefully finally that we're talking
32:50
Speaker 1: about these amazing musicians that made this huge change, and um,
32:55
Speaker 1: she is one of those, as well as Bessie Smith,
32:57
Speaker 1: as well as who was known as Bessie Jackson. That
33:00
Speaker 1: was her stage name, but I think the real name
33:02
Speaker 1: is Lucille Bogan Uh. And she was kind of like
33:05
Speaker 1: the queen of filth essentially, and kind of you see
33:08
Speaker 1: that same level in Morainy. They all were not gonna
33:11
Speaker 1: play cut c. They are going to make it down
33:14
Speaker 1: and raunchy and dirty, but not in a way that
33:17
Speaker 1: was so over the top, but enough to be like,
33:19
Speaker 1: I am a woman who enjoys these things, get it,
33:22
Speaker 1: get it together, or don't. And they accepted it like
33:25
Speaker 1: they being the audience, they being the listener. If you
33:28
Speaker 1: listen to the song of Black Bottom, you're like what
33:31
Speaker 1: what whoa uh? You know, like it's very interesting but
33:35
Speaker 1: both like those three really brought on a new set
33:39
Speaker 1: of style within the blues, within all of this, because
33:43
Speaker 1: it wasn't just you know, singing love songs anymore. It
33:46
Speaker 1: was just being fun and who they were and being
33:50
Speaker 1: sexy in themselves. And I think that was a whole
33:52
Speaker 1: different thing, and not only sexy in themselves, but it's
33:54
Speaker 1: loving themselves in a different manner. And I think that's
33:57
Speaker 1: also a big key point that we don't talk enough
33:59
Speaker 1: of out especially when it comes to black women who
34:02
Speaker 1: have become huge musicians. I think we can translate that
34:06
Speaker 1: today to today's even rap if we will look at
34:09
Speaker 1: what was happening at that point in time and just
34:11
Speaker 1: pushing the boundaries, and they were loving it. People loved it.
34:14
Speaker 1: People loved this music and also really felt again like
34:17
Speaker 1: you said, connected to it. Yeah, yeah, just making me
34:23
Speaker 1: want to go listen to some music. Also, we did
34:39
Speaker 1: touch on this earlier, but wanted to mention this whole
34:41
Speaker 1: idea of knowing what you're worth. That's something we've talked
34:44
Speaker 1: about recently. It's an ongoing conversation, but especially you know
34:48
Speaker 1: at the time when this movie was set for a
34:50
Speaker 1: black woman, and I think a lot of the things.
34:53
Speaker 1: If you haven't seen the movie and you're just listening
34:55
Speaker 1: to us talk about it, you might be like that
34:57
Speaker 1: kind of sounds like a diva, but fear. But really
35:01
Speaker 1: she was just like, I'm gonna You're gonna make so
35:05
Speaker 1: much money from this. I've requested this. I know you
35:07
Speaker 1: give it to a white artist, and now you're making
35:10
Speaker 1: you feel like just by like asking for what I'm
35:13
Speaker 1: worth it like not even that, but like the bare
35:15
Speaker 1: minimum what I asked you for, and you're you feel
35:18
Speaker 1: like I'm being a diva for it, Like a Coca
35:22
Speaker 1: cola on a hot day in a recording studio. You
35:25
Speaker 1: can't do right. I mean, essentially, this is also the
35:29
Speaker 1: narrative we have when their weaponized language against black women,
35:32
Speaker 1: calling diva, calling them angry, all those things, because it's
35:35
Speaker 1: kind of that narrative when it's an actuality. Ma Rainey
35:38
Speaker 1: had to be stern to tell them what she wanted
35:41
Speaker 1: and they weren't listening. So it got to the point
35:44
Speaker 1: that when you say the third of the fourth time,
35:46
Speaker 1: you're starting to get angry. And I get that. I
35:48
Speaker 1: get that completely because you are being ignored and by
35:52
Speaker 1: the time either you slink away and let it be
35:55
Speaker 1: or you fight for it. And that's where she was,
35:57
Speaker 1: and I think that's absolutely the key, as in fact
36:00
Speaker 1: she talks about I know when they leave here, they're
36:03
Speaker 1: going to talk all this trash about me. They're gonna
36:05
Speaker 1: say all these things, call me all these names. But
36:08
Speaker 1: I don't care, Like I really want to get at
36:10
Speaker 1: that point where I don't care that you're trash talking
36:13
Speaker 1: me because I finally stood up for myself, you know,
36:16
Speaker 1: instead of caring about what you think about me. Where
36:18
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be. And when it comes to more rainy,
36:21
Speaker 1: she's already been there. She's already seen how much money
36:24
Speaker 1: they're going to make off of her. She already knows
36:27
Speaker 1: that they're trying to take advantage of her. So therefore
36:29
Speaker 1: she's tired. And so when she asked for something and
36:32
Speaker 1: you don't have it, and she has to repeat herself, yeah,
36:36
Speaker 1: I'm angry. Yeah. I mean that's, as we discussed in a
36:43
Speaker 1: a recent episode, that can be hired to you know,
36:45
Speaker 1: know what you're worth and ask for what you're worth.
36:47
Speaker 1: And we have been women, but especially women of color
36:50
Speaker 1: and especially black women made that have that turned around
36:54
Speaker 1: on us as we're being like, we're demanding too much
36:56
Speaker 1: or like we can just get rid of you right now.
36:59
Speaker 1: But she knew, like she knew her worth and I, yeah,
37:04
Speaker 1: that's that's not easy, and I'm glad that she did.
37:07
Speaker 1: Ye yes. But that also leads into our next theme
37:11
Speaker 1: we wanted to discuss, which is appropriating black culture. I'm
37:15
Speaker 1: not giving credit where credit is due or taking credit
37:17
Speaker 1: for black culture, because that's definitely like the whole arc
37:22
Speaker 1: of Levy's character is really hammering that point home that
37:28
Speaker 1: he had this, he had this talent, and he had
37:30
Speaker 1: these dreams and he I mean, I guess you could say, unfortunately,
37:35
Speaker 1: like even though he felt so at times he and
37:38
Speaker 1: Marini clashed, he was just so so ambitious. I guess
37:42
Speaker 1: he I don't know, I don't know if law side
37:44
Speaker 1: is the right thing, but to have that just taken
37:49
Speaker 1: at the end and have a white band play it
37:52
Speaker 1: after he's told like, oh, this isn't worth anything, You're
37:54
Speaker 1: never gonna make any money. Um, And we still unfortunately
37:58
Speaker 1: see that today to right, And that's kind of the
38:02
Speaker 1: whole conversation we've been having that's been like simmering in
38:06
Speaker 1: my head about colonization and taking other people's culture. When
38:11
Speaker 1: you talk about this is cultural appropriation. There's the bigger
38:15
Speaker 1: and I know we're gonna have to come back to
38:17
Speaker 1: eventually about appreciation versus appropriation and why there is a
38:21
Speaker 1: distinct difference and why it's important to understand it. But
38:25
Speaker 1: then also the fact of the matter that Levy's character
38:29
Speaker 1: is so hopeful that he is the one that's going
38:31
Speaker 1: to break this boundary, like he's going to go beyond
38:35
Speaker 1: this where you see the two different characters, so you
38:38
Speaker 1: have the new and the older, in which Morainey has
38:40
Speaker 1: already tried and she's tired and she knows how to
38:43
Speaker 1: play the game. She's gonna get what she's worth and
38:44
Speaker 1: she's gonna leave. As where Levy's coming in trying to
38:47
Speaker 1: make his own and really thinking that he's going to
38:49
Speaker 1: push that boundary. He's really thinking he's gonna cut that
38:51
Speaker 1: red tape and really get to there because he has
38:53
Speaker 1: the talent to do it, and then being disappointed when
38:56
Speaker 1: the door slams in his face once again, and then
39:00
Speaker 1: really being told you're not because he comes in, buy
39:03
Speaker 1: some new shoes, really proud of it, tries to hit
39:05
Speaker 1: on some girls, really having a good day in these
39:07
Speaker 1: performance seeing himself at the first time as writers being
39:11
Speaker 1: told that he's his one style of music for one
39:13
Speaker 1: of their songs is preferred over Morainey's getting on this
39:18
Speaker 1: high and then so violently pushed down by white men
39:24
Speaker 1: in the scenario, and then we also have the competition
39:28
Speaker 1: is Morainy is fearful of change, He's fearful of than you,
39:31
Speaker 1: which is kind of that conversation about her and Bessie
39:33
Speaker 1: Smith about who who was who first, who started this first,
39:38
Speaker 1: and seeing him being a threat but in her age
39:42
Speaker 1: knowing how to combat these threats as where Levy is
39:45
Speaker 1: not able to handle criticism and or rejection, so because
39:49
Speaker 1: he's so new to this. So there's so many things
39:51
Speaker 1: to that that we see in that as well, but
39:54
Speaker 1: him unfortunately realizing what it looks like to be taken
39:58
Speaker 1: advantage of and instead of being mentor than listening to
40:01
Speaker 1: mo Rainey about how to do something or how to
40:03
Speaker 1: go about it, he doesn't and more Rainy doesn't invest
40:08
Speaker 1: in that. And that's a whole different conversation in itself. Yes,
40:11
Speaker 1: and cultural appropriation, like there's a whole thing happening about food.
40:14
Speaker 1: We know this. We're having a constant conversation about music
40:18
Speaker 1: that's never gonna go away, and about who's doing what
40:20
Speaker 1: and why it's important to credit people and now we're
40:23
Speaker 1: going to as a specific stop trying to steal people's music.
40:26
Speaker 1: How about that? But even more so when it comes
40:29
Speaker 1: to culture, we're talking about hairstyles, we're talking about food,
40:31
Speaker 1: and it's not about you can't do it necessarily. I
40:34
Speaker 1: mean we won't go into specific, but when it comes
40:37
Speaker 1: to food that you can't do it, but don't try
40:40
Speaker 1: to take credit for it as if he's just invented
40:42
Speaker 1: the will yeah, and then make more money off of it,
40:46
Speaker 1: and then who makes who's making money off of it
40:48
Speaker 1: and pretending like it's there own. Like that's been a
40:50
Speaker 1: big discussion right now. Kimchi is a big discussion. I
40:53
Speaker 1: was like, wow, yeah, yeah, that is a huge That
40:58
Speaker 1: is a huge topic. Um, go to return to that.
41:01
Speaker 1: I also, I know we make this point a lot,
41:03
Speaker 1: and you made it a little bit earlier Smith that,
41:04
Speaker 1: but kind of this idea of turning marginalized people against
41:08
Speaker 1: each other, I feel like that was that was part
41:11
Speaker 1: of this. And then also as you say, like ma
41:14
Speaker 1: Rainey was being dismissed by Levy and the white producer
41:19
Speaker 1: and agent not so much the other band members, but
41:22
Speaker 1: like she is the she has been in this game
41:25
Speaker 1: and she knows what she's doing, and they're both kind
41:27
Speaker 1: of like both parties are kind of like no, no, no, no, no,
41:32
Speaker 1: She's keeping it, keeps having to say we're doing it
41:36
Speaker 1: my way, Like I know this is I wrote this
41:39
Speaker 1: music like don't come in here, right, which is also
41:44
Speaker 1: a theme we see time and time again, right yeah,
41:48
Speaker 1: and I think again it is that thing that she's
41:52
Speaker 1: tired and she no longer gets anything, and therefore she's
41:56
Speaker 1: just going to tell you stop it right right, right right,
41:59
Speaker 1: But she's that was something else I took a note
42:02
Speaker 1: of us. I just felt like she wasn't getting the
42:04
Speaker 1: respect that she deserved. Um. And then also racial and
42:08
Speaker 1: intergenerational trauma. The whole Levees story is like that in
42:15
Speaker 1: a nutshell. It encompasses that's so beautifully and so so
42:19
Speaker 1: painfully because you see those sides of him as being
42:23
Speaker 1: like so so ambitious and so like I'm going to
42:26
Speaker 1: break this, I'm going to rise above all these obstacles.
42:30
Speaker 1: And then he has that moment that's so raw, it's
42:33
Speaker 1: so painful where he talks about this trauma he went
42:37
Speaker 1: to and how it's still in his mind and how
42:38
Speaker 1: it informs how he interacts with the world and how
42:41
Speaker 1: he interacts with white people specifically, and how how he
42:44
Speaker 1: thinks he can win this game by knowing that, which
42:48
Speaker 1: I think he said something all I'm like smiling in
42:50
Speaker 1: his face, saying yes sir and smiling in his face
42:54
Speaker 1: and then seeing that how that ends up. But that's
42:57
Speaker 1: just throughout and like even throughout the entire movie, there's
43:01
Speaker 1: just like you said, like when they went to go
43:03
Speaker 1: buy the code, there these moments of tension, like you
43:05
Speaker 1: can never escape this kind of white supremacist structure, Like
43:11
Speaker 1: even if you have like this good moment. I mean,
43:14
Speaker 1: that's kind of the whole point with the Great Migration,
43:17
Speaker 1: as they were told there's opportunities the North, except you, um,
43:20
Speaker 1: you will find new ways. And for Morainy, and this
43:23
Speaker 1: was part of the documentary when they were talking about it,
43:25
Speaker 1: is that she knew how it worked in the South,
43:27
Speaker 1: so she had her hub of people, and she knew
43:29
Speaker 1: how to maintain and control that coming to an area
43:32
Speaker 1: that says we're so welcoming, we're so open, and then
43:35
Speaker 1: coming and oh no, these are new rules to play by.
43:37
Speaker 1: But the supremacy is still here and trying to navigate that.
43:41
Speaker 1: That was harder for her because and I thought about that,
43:44
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's absolutely true. In my own
43:46
Speaker 1: small world, I knew one thing. I got into a
43:49
Speaker 1: bigger world. Oh this is not how this works. What's happening.
43:52
Speaker 1: I was good over here. I knew how to work
43:54
Speaker 1: that system. I knew how to maintain in the system.
43:58
Speaker 1: Now this is a new system, which you gave me
44:00
Speaker 1: false hope, and it's not here, and I still have
44:03
Speaker 1: to be on guard because if not, I'm going to
44:05
Speaker 1: be righted over the coals somehow. And I think that
44:08
Speaker 1: was another part of that conversation that we saw at
44:11
Speaker 1: the beginning, when we talk about come to the come
44:13
Speaker 1: to the North, come to Chicago, come to here, and
44:15
Speaker 1: will help, will help you get a job. You're everybody
44:18
Speaker 1: is welcome, and that's not true, right right, right right.
44:22
Speaker 1: And then to wrap up here, I want to touch
44:25
Speaker 1: on these two things very quickly because they weren't major
44:27
Speaker 1: teams in it. But as you said, there was that
44:30
Speaker 1: some like able issm around Silvester about his stutter. And
44:35
Speaker 1: when Marini is first like he's going to do it,
44:37
Speaker 1: he can do it. And Levy being like, he can't
44:41
Speaker 1: do it. So you've got kind of those both angles
44:43
Speaker 1: where I feel like more Rainy was pretty supportive, even
44:47
Speaker 1: though yeah, there can be the angle of maybe he
44:49
Speaker 1: didn't want to do it. Seemed to be like he
44:50
Speaker 1: wanted to do it and she was like you can
44:51
Speaker 1: do it then like right, but that's that's absolutely not
44:55
Speaker 1: always the case, right, But yeah, And I think the
44:59
Speaker 1: bigger pick or when I was talking about, is that
45:01
Speaker 1: we often see in these movies, and not just these movies,
45:04
Speaker 1: we often see in media in general, in any entertainment,
45:08
Speaker 1: that there is that the disability is bad and to
45:11
Speaker 1: overcome it is to win and that's the overall goal.
45:15
Speaker 1: And that's not the truth. When we talk to people
45:17
Speaker 1: in the disabled community when we see articles, that's not
45:20
Speaker 1: the things. They're happy, they're happy. The reason they're unhappy
45:23
Speaker 1: oftentimes is because we the ablest abled community would think, ah,
45:28
Speaker 1: poor you and in realizing wait what but this is
45:31
Speaker 1: not okay? Just accept them. There shouldn't be a problem. Okay,
45:35
Speaker 1: they may have a stutter, but what does that. That
45:37
Speaker 1: doesn't change anything, you know, like it really it doesn't
45:40
Speaker 1: change who they are, and that doesn't have to be
45:43
Speaker 1: quote unquote fix. Of course. I know once again, those
45:46
Speaker 1: who are in the disabled community, do you want to
45:48
Speaker 1: change that or or do something different from that, Then
45:52
Speaker 1: that's fine, that's accepted however it needs to be. But
45:56
Speaker 1: we can't. We have to get away from these tropes
45:59
Speaker 1: that there's a better which is the ablest conversation, which
46:03
Speaker 1: I mean again, it still was like, oh, I'm really
46:06
Speaker 1: glad Mariiny loves her nephew to want to be patient
46:10
Speaker 1: with him and work it out with him. But let's
46:12
Speaker 1: let's just also recognize it's okay to have stutter. It's
46:15
Speaker 1: not a big deal, right, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. And
46:19
Speaker 1: then also, so the first time I watched this, I thought,
46:26
Speaker 1: Saba Reny comes in with Dusty May and they have
46:28
Speaker 1: this moment. I was like, are they romantically involved? And
46:31
Speaker 1: then I got confused throughout the rest. And then I
46:35
Speaker 1: was researching mo Rainy and then they said she was queer.
46:38
Speaker 1: So there was that element in there that I would
46:40
Speaker 1: like to look more into because I think we should
46:43
Speaker 1: come back and do kind of a biography. Um oh
46:47
Speaker 1: yea something I think we should do. So I think
46:49
Speaker 1: we should too. I think it'd be great with her
46:51
Speaker 1: Bessie Smith and Bessie Jackson. I think we could just
46:54
Speaker 1: do a Mahalia jack all of them. I want to
46:56
Speaker 1: talk about all of them. But yeah, there is that
46:58
Speaker 1: queer component in which we talked about. Of course, they
47:01
Speaker 1: kind of overshouted it with the Levy storyline, which I
47:05
Speaker 1: don't know if that was necessary other than to push
47:07
Speaker 1: the plot along about how ambitious, overly ambitious he was
47:11
Speaker 1: and really he thought he was untouchable, which is again
47:15
Speaker 1: part of who his character was. H Poor Dusty may
47:18
Speaker 1: just kind of gets thrown all about. But yeah, I
47:21
Speaker 1: think the big question. So apparently the reason she got
47:25
Speaker 1: her name Ma Rainey is that her and her ex
47:29
Speaker 1: husband were Paul and Ma Rainey and they did uh
47:33
Speaker 1: minstrel shows together, and then she kept the name Ma Rainey.
47:37
Speaker 1: Obviously I don't know who Rainy whatever, And that's how
47:42
Speaker 1: she kind of moved into her her stage name and
47:46
Speaker 1: her character. Um. But when she left her husband realizing nah,
47:51
Speaker 1: you are nothing to me. Not that that's why she left,
47:54
Speaker 1: but like, it obviously fell apart, and then she ended up, yeah,
47:57
Speaker 1: coming out as queer because she didn't hide it, you
48:00
Speaker 1: really didn't. So that was kind of interesting to see. Yeah,
48:04
Speaker 1: we'll have to we'll have to return to that. I
48:06
Speaker 1: would love to do all musicians, all those musicians you mentioned.
48:10
Speaker 1: That'd be fun. In the meantime, if you haven't watched
48:13
Speaker 1: this movie the documentary you're on Netflix, go seek them out.
48:18
Speaker 1: Really beautifully shot, usually acted. I loved the costuming was
48:22
Speaker 1: so good, it was so so good, the music phenomenal.
48:26
Speaker 1: Go check it out. And as always, if you have
48:29
Speaker 1: a recommendation for our next movie, you should send it
48:33
Speaker 1: to us. You can do so at our email, Stuff
48:38
Speaker 1: Video Stuff at I Heart media dot com. You can
48:40
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on
48:42
Speaker 1: Instagram and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks. It's always
48:44
Speaker 1: to our super producer, Christina. Thank you for making us
48:46
Speaker 1: sound good. Christina, Thank you, Christina. Thanks to you for
48:52
Speaker 1: listening Stuff I Never Told You his prediction of I
48:54
Speaker 1: Heart Radio for more podcast on my Heart Radio, visit
48:56
Speaker 1: you Heard you app Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen
48:58
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.