Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode 27: 1st Genetically Engineered Pig Heart Put into a Human

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Episode 27: 1st Genetically Engineered Pig Heart Put into a Human · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even as supposedly young as I am, it's my time, it's my time.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I would rather I would rather invest completely in a vibrant, excited, abundant, enthusiastic life and outlook than put myself and my family through an arduous long-term thing.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds um unrighteous, un you know, un-american to to to resign.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of part of a healthy disposition is to simply not feel like you have to fight every circumstance that comes into your life.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everybody.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Beyond Labels.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm your co-host, Dr.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here with Joel Salatin, our favorite farmer.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Joel.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Cena.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: All right, today we have an interesting story.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: This story is about the first genetically modified pig heart that has been successfully transplanted into a human patient.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now, we reported on this company.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: The company that created this genetically modified pig heart is um Revivacore.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's a Virginia-based company.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you and I, over a year ago, reported on that company's uh the company because they were the first to get a genetically engineered pig approved for human consumption.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: That was back in December of 2020.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and now they are um harvesting organs from pigs uh to do transplants into humans.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So this is from the article.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: It says the latest promising update in humans quest to harvest life-saving organs from our four-legged porcine friends saw a team of surgeons at the University of Maryland Medical Center successfully implant a heart taken from a genetically modified pig into the body of a 57-year-old Maryland resident.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: This marks the first time that a pig's heart has been successfully transplanted into a human.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: The operation was granted emergency authorization by the FDA on December 31st through the agency's compassionate access provisions.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So the last I checked, the man is still alive and he's actually starting physical therapy.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what I wanted to dive into is a little bit of um, we'll get your opinion on this.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: But before I do that, let me tell you from this article what they've said had to be half had to happen in order for this pig heart to be accepted by the human body.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: So the pig, the donor pig was genetically modified uh by RevivorCore.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um the core company made 10 genetic alterations, four of the pig's genes were inactivated, six human genes were inserted into the genome, and nine of the edits were made to reduce the chances that the human body would reject the new heart after transplant.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: The last um genetic mutation or genetic editing was made to stop the excessive growth of the pig tissue once the heart was implanted.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Then they further increased the chance that the heart would not be rejected by uh having another company create an experimental drug that was designed to suppress the human immune system, preventing the body from immediately fighting back against the foreign implant.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now we know um that's that's common, right?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Even when you have a human organ that's transplanted into another human, you go on immunosuppressives.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: But in this situation, um, according to the doctors, there is more of a risk because more immunosuppressive medication is required for a pig-to-human heart transplant.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so they don't know the long-term side effects of that.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Joel.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Initial thoughts.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, I think, I think just as a point of uh information for our listeners, it's it's uh it's important to realize that pigs, pigs um, you know, continue to grow.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's uh there's indication that that pigs will uh obviously they have a growth cycle just like a human, but they actually don't stop growing.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: They just continue to grow and grow and grow over time.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so this heart, um, you know, whereas the the human reaches a you know, your whatever, your homeostasis, your maturity, and everything just stops.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: A pig, uh, if you continue to feed it, just continues to get bigger and bigger and bigger.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is a fascinating uh thing that they had to put they had to put a gene in the heart so that the heart would stop growing and uh and not continue to grow uh in the human.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: It would literally eventually fill the body cavity, uh, you know, uh if that were allowed to allowed to grow.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know the these things start um from a very sincere place.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, who it's hard to say, well, you know, we shouldn't be trying to elongate somebody's life.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and and having a discussion about um about just um humbly resigning to uh to death, you know, is maybe the topic of another whole uh discussion.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and what what uh you know, what do you give up?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you give up?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm I'm I'm remembering reading about some very primitive uh tribes in like um Brazil in the Amazon rainforest, as they've been touched by you know um by the white civilization and uh and how the village actually comes around and decides whether to go seek medical help for people.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, is is it worth is it worth that whole investment, or could we do something else with that money, that time, that investment?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that those those are questions that as Western society, we we basically we have this this uh uh this uh anathema toward death that we should prolong death even if it's for a year, for a week, no matter, no matter what happens, the uh the right or whatever, the the noble, the righteous response is always to prolong night life for another day.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, that's a that's an interesting assumption.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and I I'm not sure that I'm not sure that what we're seeing is worth that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: But um, what's your what are your thoughts?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a sensitive subject for me because my mother had a kidney transplant and she was on the wait list for many, many years.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's that's the reason the company is giving for creating these um these different organs for hemotransplant is all the deaths um from people waiting on the on the transplant list.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so they're you know they're saying that about a hundred, so there's about a hundred thousand people reportedly on the wait list, and 17 people die every day in the US waiting for a transplant.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um so I can understand both sides of this because, like I said, my mother received um a kidney transplant and we waited a long time for that.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And but on the other hand, I feel like we know we know that you can reverse disease, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And had I been involved in my mother's healing journey earlier, she would not have lost that kidney because we know the steps um to reverse kidney disease.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that was more of a I wasn't um I wasn't welcomed into the story at that point.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we did save her kidney, the remaining kidney later in life.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we know that this can happen.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: We know that we can reverse disease, that we can heal these different organs.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: We know this without a doubt from the research of stem cells, and we see people reversing diseases um across the country.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I feel like this is unnecessary because we we have a way to get healthy without having to um harvest organs from animals, you know.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So my heart breaks for the animals that we're utilizing, right?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to manipulate nature to prolong our lives instead of learning how to live alongside nature and and and live by nature and nature's laws and tap into that healing power um that we all have inside of us.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I do I feel like um it's unfortunate that the message that your body can heal itself is not more well known.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not like yelled out by mainstream media and social media.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's really a shame because now we've got to this position where we're utilizing animals by we're manipulating their unique genetic makeup in order to um prolong our lives.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I just think that it would it's an unnecessary thing.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I totally am compassionate toward the people who are on the wait list.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as I said, I've been through it as the daughter of somebody on a wait list.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I know the emotional ups and downs behind it.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it would be great if instead of spending all this money, all this time, all this investment, you know, to and changing genes of an animal, instead of focusing on that, let's focus on getting the message out and helping people to reverse disease um by utilizing and harnessing that power that's inside all of us.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um in in business we call this opportunity cost.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Opportunity cost is the cost of, well, we we've got you know, we've got three things, we've got three things we can invest in.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um if we if we choose this one to invest in and don't invest in that one, um what's the cost of of not investing in that one?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: You got A, B, C, and uh, and you you pick, well, we're gonna we're gonna invest in B.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's the what's the opportunity cost of not investing in A?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, you know, businesses, we you know, we we make these decisions all the time because because you know you can't you can't do everything.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's only so much time in a day, there's only so much money, you know, you can't do everything.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so if if we take that, if we take that look here and say, you know, what's the what's the opportunity cost in not in in investing in you know the the GMO pig and and all of the ramifications, of course.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and and this is very early on, you know, we don't know, for example, we don't know the multi-year dimension of these genetically altered pigs.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know what their what their future holds.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we don't know what the future of this this guy holds either.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so, you know, uh I think it's too early to jump up and down and say, oh good, you know, we've we've we've got a we've got a cure.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I would just I would just beg the question, what's the opportunity cost in investing in this as opposed to investing in all of the things that we know, you know, can um can reverse disease.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and you and I have both seen almost, um, I mean, you know, from a from a human standpoint, we'd call it almost uh miraculous healings and changes uh in people who you know who completely change their um their whole physical, emotional, spiritual outlook, uh, and suddenly, you know, things things change.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we I mean we're kind of going back to a to when I um uh you know when I had my kind of protocol for uh building the immune system.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what if what if uh Anthony Fauci came out next week and said, all right, we're gonna spend a month building our immune systems and we're going to all um you know not drink coke for a month and we're not gonna uh eat junk food for a month, and we're going to get you know 20 minutes of exercise, work up a sweat every day, we're gonna spend 20 minutes in the sun, get some vitamin D every day, we're gonna drink a half a gallon of water every day, we're gonna get eight hours of sleep a night, and um, you know, and we're going to um uh we're gonna we're gonna you know make a list of all the people we hate and forgive them, you know, those those kind of things.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in other words, in other words, the um the opportunity cost that our nation has lost by not going with that kind of uh investment in that protocol, you know, we don't know, we don't know what the cost of that is.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we just don't know what the and now we're starting to see the costs in in children and masking.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're seeing elementary kids drawing pictures, drawing pictures, doing artwork with people with no faces.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we don't know what those ramifications are.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so um uh the the fact the fact that we know that there are significant alternatives and refuse to invest in them and promote them, um, you know, does you know beg the question of opportunity cost in in this instance, even though absolutely both you and I uh appreciate.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a you know there's a there's a family in our church that's got a guy, uh he's you know, he's he's young, he's like 30 years old and getting kidney transplants, and and he's just in and out and in and out and in and out.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: He's got double pneumonia, he's got covet, he's got, I mean, and just just every week there's another, you know, uh terrible thing that's happened.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and um, you know, a lot of people don't know.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've told my family, I'm I'm not that old, uh, but I have I have a no-resuscitate.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: If I have a heart attack tomorrow, I don't I don't want to be brought back.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh I you know, even as supposedly young as I am, um when it's when it's my time, it's my time, it's my time.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I would rather I would rather invest completely in a vibrant, excited, abundant, enthusiastic life and outlook, uh, than than than put you know then than put myself and my family through an arduous long-term um you know uh long-term thing.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the it it it sounds it sounds um whatever, unrighteous, you know, un-american to to to resign.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of um part of a healthy disposition is to simply not feel like you have to fight every circumstance that comes into your life.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a time to fight and there's a time to just to relax and um and and and embrace, but embrace, you know, embrace a healing concept.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and uh like what you were saying, when you have when you when somebody receives a transplant, it's it could save their life, right, for a given period of time, but it doesn't actually solve the underlying root problem of what of why they needed that transplant in the beginning, right?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you're saying, if you don't address the diet and lifestyle of the individual and you just give the transplant, um, you haven't actually solved the problem.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're kind of just kicking the can down the road.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we saw this with my mother, for instance, once she received the kidney transplant.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what happened?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: That a disease formed in the new kidney, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And why?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because the root problem, the root cause of the original kidney disease was not actually addressed.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so that's one short-sightedness of a transplant.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: However, if someone isn't aware that that they can actually reverse the disease or, you know, heal an organ, then I can see how that's the, they would think that's their last resort, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only option on the table.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the point is, you know, for like that's one reason why I have a little more peace of mind, knowing that like we're doing these podcasts, for instance, and doing our health summits so that we can, we are part of the solution.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not just sitting back holding on to this information that might help somebody.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm actually putting it out there.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully more and more people will hear these kinds of messages.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's lots of people talking about them.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but so that's that's one of the points.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't actually solve the problem.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing that's concerning to me is this is I see it as a slippery slope that's gonna potentially move us down the road to people eventually uh being more likely to accept GMOs in many areas of our lives, including the food supply.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and this is the one reason why is um so check this out.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I came up with this list of mammalian byproducts that are already commonly used in medications, vaccines, and other therapeutics.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So just some examples.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we get thyroid medication from pig thyroids, we get pancreatic enzymes derived from a pig pancreas, heparin can be derived from a pig intestine.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, vaccines can contain gelatin that's derived from either cows or pigs.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in terms of tablets, magnesium sterate is commonly used as a binder and a lubricant, and it can actually be derived from mammals and pig heart valves have also already been used.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we're already using, right?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: We already got comfortable, the society already accepted the use of these mammalian body parts to make these various products from therapeutics to vaccines to medications to supplements.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're ushering in a genetically engineered mammal to save lives, right?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they're not the only ones doing it.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so so they did it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: This was their second quote unquote significant achievement in the realm of pig transplant.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Just last September at New York University, the same company, RevivorCore, they um transplanted a kidney from the genetically modified pig into a patient.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: The patient was already brain dead, and the kidney was kept outside of the body for observations for about 54 hours.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the surgeon said that was the first time that the animal donor wasn't immediately rejected by the human.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So they've done this with kidney.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's other agencies that are also separate companies that are also using genetically engineered animals.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So this is becoming a trend now.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's one called um, so the FDA gave xenotherapeutics the go-ahead to begin clinical trials to study whether live skin cells derived from genetically engineered pigs could be used to treat severe burns in humans.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was in 2019.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have a couple startups, one's uh Miuromatrix and e-genesis.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: They've attracted millions of dollars to develop gene-edited pigs for again for um organ donation.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So this isn't just one company, this is a trend.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we have these startups also doing this.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So my concern is this is, I think, this is an argument that supporters of genetic engineering can win, right?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because are you gonna be the one to say, oh, that that child should die instead of getting an organ from this genetically modified pig, you know?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if it was your child that for whatever reason, acute injury in a car accident or whatnot, needed an organ transplant, are you gonna say no?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because the only one available is a genetically engineered, you know, pig organ?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So this becomes a very difficult um argument.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I feel like this is one.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: way where they can they can get some some they can gain some ground on pushing the narrative that of genetically um engineered not only animals but humans i mean we already have the genetically engineered salmon right and other foods like the non-browning apple for instance so i feel like this is a slippery slope that we're that we are going down this is a difficult argument i don't think that those of us who just don't support genetic engineering i don't think we're gonna win this argument um it is going to become normalized in our society i i i think i think you're exactly right and and our our society for sure is not willing to accept a more um you know a a more primitive view i i i was just um uh and and i hate i hate to say primitive maybe a more primal but a more uh uh aboriginal uh we could even say a more native american view i mean uh uh i'm i'm i'm just now reading uh uh the 1837 um letters from george catlin who captured who was the artist who traveled for years among the native americans and uh and kind of captured their final their final glory you know before they were overrun by the um by whites and um i was just reading about about death uh about those uh societies and of course you know they had their medicine and they had herbal remedies they they did their their their normal things um but uh he quoted them as as saying um almost every single uh death was in their sleep they you know that they would get old and um and they would be fine and they just didn't wake up the next morning and that was that was normal now i mean people died in you know they got injured and they well you know they fought each other all the time um i'm not trying to make this sound like some sort of a uh a nirvana but but it was fascinating to me that they basically did not have any degenerative diseases um uh and and they took a they took a very um resigned or humble view to end of life and we we have not cultivated that in our society i'm i i'm i'm even thinking of like you know when that when that um young kid broke into that Amish school in Pennsylvania what you know 15 20 years ago and shot those six children killed those six Amish children and the Amish community they did not they did not press charges against him they immediately gathered and said and said you know we we obviously don't like what he did and we're grieving but we forgive him we forgive him unconditionally right away um you know that is such a uh a non-western whatever non-commercial non-celebrity culture it it it's such a different way of of viewing and I know you and I are talking about a very very difficult uh topic here and and and I don't think either one of us purports to have all the answers what we are trying to put on the table is that this this this this fill the the the philosophical foundation of a viewing life as fundamentally mechanical and a bunch of parts that's a slippery slope embracing and endorsing um uh something too quickly without giving it you know years to play out that's a slippery slope that's that's a problem and and and investing in a in in a continued um uh technically technically expensive and difficult procedure as opposed to um an opposite view of personal heat uh of of the capacity of the body and a family and a community to surround to heal you know those are those are all three things that we that we're willing we're willing to say wait a minute let's not celebrate yet let's not celebrate yet and I think that's that's our our main message here that there are alternatives there are other things that just don't they're they're not as glitzy they're not as as as techno you know techno exciting and um and for some reason our culture worships at this altar of of of technology as opposed to the you know the uh the full holistic uh uh element of the human condition yeah I agree and so one of my big takeaways is I think it would be beneficial for all of us you know you and I included of course to approach situations with more humility right that we don't know all the answers we don't know the unintended consequences um and to understand that what we call progress isn't always beneficial right it's not always better we a lot of a lot of times especially in mainstream medicine we think of um ancient cultures you know um ancient herbal remedies for instance we think of them as like antiquated right that those are ineffective those are what people back in the stone age did right like now we're modern we're sophisticated right we're civilized um and so we tend to get wrapped up into that and so we demonize almost we turn our backs on anything that's not quote unquote technological progress right and so um we we actually a lot of us see it as lesser lesser than these technological quote unquote advancements but when you look back just like you're saying with the book you were reading reading if you look back at say um you know hunter-gatherer organ uh civilizations we now know based on more current evidence that they lived almost as long as we do like once you once you subtract out death from childbirth and a childhood death once you made it past childhood you lived almost as long as we do today and the difference is like you said you didn't live in a state of chronic sickness right you lived healthy almost up until the point where you died and we think oftentimes they too died in their sleep.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they didn't have this conundrum of how are we going to try to keep people alive you know as long as possible how are we going to fight death right because they were healthy and how were they healthy?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right they had clean diets right um and they used herbals these you know they could a lot of them depending on obviously the location in which they lived some herbs and such were available in some areas um year round and some weren't but the point is they did consume things like medicinal herbals on more of a daily basis right and they were closer to nature they were in the dirt they had a strong microbiome all these things that we are more separated from now that as you know as I was just explaining seem kind of antiquated um you know too too ancient too remedial for the rest of us to do kind of backwards in some ways um so if we can just humble ourselves and see the value that the ancient wisdom holds for us we would be um much much better served I think yeah and I I think just to make to as we as we wrap up here we've got a we've got to finish but I think I think you and I both agree we're not interested in making in in making this um you know this port this this gmo experimentation and the whole thing that we've described we're not talking we we're not interested in making it illegal we're not saying uh this this this should not be done and and and that this fellow is is evil for for participating in the study we're we're simply we're simply trying to um to use this as as maybe an example as an as as an extreme example right now of our society's um uh um kind of unilateral endorsement of a procedure that that you and I would like to put on the table has alternatives and that's the whole idea is that there are there are alternatives to this um even even to the notion that I'm supposed to continue to live another two weeks at all costs.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that that is a that is a is an extreme notion in my opinion and so um so you know we we just put this kind of at a point of reference it's a tough discussion one of the toughest discussions anyone can ever have and uh and you know there there are um there there are not easy answers on this i'm i i'm reminded uh if i can just uh you know finish with one uh one thing i i had a had a friend who whose dad had a heart attack and um and and he when he when he came back when they when they got him back um he was a he was a different person he he had always been a very warm loving uh loving guy and his last um you know it it it gave him another whatever five years of life and those five years he was he he swore he was uh short tempered he was he he was a it was a different he was a completely different person and uh my friend said um that you know a hundred years ago his dad would have passed away and they would have had all these uh fond memories and now technology has enabled the family to now deal with issues that the human is not supposed to deal with and and there and there's a cost to that there is a real cost to that and i i i think uh you and i both know yeah we we preach wellness but look you know your time is up sometimes i mean it just is and and part of a healthy uh a healthy embrace of life is a uh an appreciation that it has an end and um and and we don't have to preserve at all costs this yeah yeah I would agree and as somebody who has taken care of two sick parents they were that life was prolonged for many many years it's very taxing on the caregiver i mean we even have we have lots of studies on this published in scientific literature about um how their immune system is suppressed the caregiver themselves their immune system is suppressed um they have longer it takes them longer to heal from illnesses you know common colds the flu cuts you know um so it is a very taxing situation and I think this is something you know we generations ago you didn't have to really deal with that as much right we we were a healthier society in general you know you took care of the elders but they weren't necessarily as sick as a lot of our elders are getting now and so it wasn't as taxing you know generally speaking there's always you know caveats to everything sure as we've gotten sicker and sicker as a nation we are faced with this now we're we are prolonging lives sicker for longer and it is it's taxing on the person who was sick I saw it myself and both my parents and it's taxing on the caregiver who's trying to in like in our case raise up the next generation um and you only have so much energy um so much resources to give before you burn out and that's what happened to me almost got sick again after trying to take care of two sick parents at the same time right so it is um I but and again like you said we're not judging anybody right everyone gets to make their own decisions and we want freedom of choice to remain right we don't want to outlaw anything here um it's just more of let's bring this up and have um an open discussion about it and so we can all individually figure out where it is that we lie in this situation you know because um because this isn't going anywhere as we said more and more of these products are are being um produced in labs now so let's just get the ball rolling and start figuring out where we stand.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right that's right thanks Cena um thank everyone for joining us today it's this has been a a a deep uh heartrending discussion it's hard for all of us but I hope that we've opened up some ideas that you may think about uh now going forward think and think about where you are think about where your family is and um and I I think what we've tried to do here is simply open up some uh some thoughts that you won't get down at the down at the drugstore uh or at the doctor's office and um and and that's probably a good thing.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us we'll see you next time