Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #0183_ Katarina Szulc — “You’re Not Walking in a City, You’re Walking in a Morgue”

Transcript

#0183_ Katarina Szulc — “You’re Not Walking in a City, You’re Walking in a Morgue” · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Katarina Schultz.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Sean Ryan.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome back.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me back.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming back. You've been busy.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Truly.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: How many places have you been? When was the first?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We met like two years ago, I think.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: No, we met last year.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Was it last year?
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: A little over a year ago.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow. How many places have you been since then?
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Do you even count them?
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I actually couldn't tell you off the top of my head. Everywhere.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: It feels like. Yeah, I can't tell you off the
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: top of my head. There's been so much work.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Where's your favorite place you've been?
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: In the last year?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Ukraine.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Really? Yeah.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I love Eastern Europe. And I was really interested in
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: the war and like doing the certain stories that I
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: went to do that I felt like didn't have any coverage. So,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: and everyone was so kind. Like it was a very
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: different experience for me.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Well, I mean, it's not surprising that's your favorite place,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: especially with the conversation we just had, you know, prior
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: to being on air here that your first passion is
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: being a war correspondent. That was the goal. Well, here,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: let me give you an interdue, excuse me, an interdue,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: an introduction. You're a former traditional journalist who realized you
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: had to get out of the newsroom to understand what
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: was really happening on the ground. Now based in Mexico City,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: You report on cartels, organized crime, and political corruption through
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: your work in borderland dispatches, often traveling directly into the
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: regions where these stories are unfolding. Today, you're back to
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: share updates on some of our past discussions and break
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: down your latest reporting from the field. Welcome back. Thanks.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: All right. So since we last spoke, I know you've
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: spent a ton of time in Ukraine, but If you
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: remember right, I think we opened the show last time
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: with this Valeria Marquez.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Valeria Marquez.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Valeria Marquez.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: And when we spoke about that, people, it really popped off.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: People wanted to know more.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: So this is just a recap for the audience. Okay.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: She was, what, a TikTok influencer?
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: She was a TikTok influencer. She also, Instagram, did, like,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: beauty pageants and stuff. Pretty well known across Mexico, and
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: particularly in Guadalajara. And she was shot three times, murdered
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: on TikTok Live last year, over a year ago now.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: And for the longest time, it wasn't until last month,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: someone was officially accused by the Mexican government for putting
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: the hit on her. Prior to that, the United States
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: government actually gave their own accusation, so to speak. They
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: said that El Doble R, a major figure high in
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the ranks in CG & G, the Jalisco New Generation Cartel,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: was responsible for it. They sanctioned him, did all that business,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: the OFAC list. And then Mexico denied that. And Mexico
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: said they were still investigating. And then, just recently, they,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Mexico arrested R1, R1, high-ranking member within the Rs. Everyone
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: kind of has an R name in CG & G.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Why is that?
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: It's just that sort of sub-cell of CG & G,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: in a way. Los R's. R1, R2, R3.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: So these are like call signs?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, call signs. And so they arrested this individual for
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: the murder of Carlos Manso, a mayor of a town
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: in Michoacán, who was very outspoken against cartels and the violence,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: and he was murdered in broad daylight. It was an
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: assassination very similar to Valeria's assassination. So, R1 was arrested
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: for that murder, and then Omar Garcia Harfuch, Secretary of
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Security of Mexico did a press conference saying, you know,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: we've finally taken someone into custody for not only their
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: ties with this major criminal organization, but for the murder, particularly,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: of Carlos Manso. Now, we are looking for his son,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: who they believe put the hit on Valeria Marquez. And
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: this young man was in a romantic relationship with Valeria Marquez. Actually,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Luis Chaparro went to and interviewed this guy who's hiding
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: from authorities right now.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Really? Mm-hmm. How do you feel about that? Interviewing somebody
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: that's hiding from authorities? Do you feel like there is...
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Have you done that?
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I've definitely interviewed criminals who... who have... who are being
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: looked for, yes.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Do you feel any type of responsibility to.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Give them up?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: And not my job?
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Not your job.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing, right? If I can get to
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: them or other journalists can get to these individuals, how
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: is law enforcement unable to get to them?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Good point. Right?
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: So, especially in Mexico, it's definitely a level of, I
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: don't know, it's a lack of motivation to get the
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: bad guy.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Why do you think the, I mean, if these guys
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: are wanted so bad, you know what I mean? And
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I know Luis very well.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Did you watch the interview?
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know he did it.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I've lost touch with him. Yeah, it's like a 40-minute
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: long interview. He went, even documented getting there. He actually
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: called me when the contact was first made between him
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: and the accused and was like, I think that I'm
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: going to be able to interview this guy. And he
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: let me know because I had obviously been doing a
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: ton of reporting and following the Valeria case.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: And.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I was like, can I go with you? And he's like,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. This is very much keep it
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: low key and this guy wants to clear his name.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: And my first question was, how safe do you feel? Like,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: do you trust that this isn't a setup?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Because there's a lot of violence against journalists in Mexico,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: especially against individuals like us who are particularly focused on
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: organized crime in the cartels. And, you know, shady government officials.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: And.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: He was like, I think he told me he was
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: kind of 50-50. He was leaning towards more that it
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: was legit interview, but that it was worth the risk.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: And I fully agreed with that. So he went and
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: spoke to this individual. I watched the interview. This kid
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: wants to clear his name and says that he was
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: in a relationship with Valeria. but he would never kill her.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: He actually cared about her. And he was living in
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: an apartment building really close to the beauty salon, her
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: beauty salon, where she was murdered in because, you know,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: for people watching who don't know, she was on live
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: in her beauty salon and she was getting messages that
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: she was going to receive gifts that day, which wasn't
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: uncommon for Valeria. A lot of people liked her. A
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: lot of People had crushes on her. She was a
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: really attractive young girl. And she first, she receives two gifts.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: First receives a gift, a delivery driver on a motorcycle
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: comes and brings her Starbucks and then brings her a
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: pig teddy bear, like a stuffed animal, a pig, which
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: right off the bat, bad sign in Mexico.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of times where hits are
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: taken out or people are assassinated and a pig head
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: doesn't happen so much anymore. But perhaps in like early 2010s,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: a pig head would be left there to signal that
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: that murdered person was a rat or, you know, dirty puerco.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So she gets that. Doesn't really clock it, but she
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: does start to say in this live, I'm worried. I'm nervous.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: I feel like something's wrong. She says at one point,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I think they're going to levantarme. They're going to kidnap me.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: And at the same time, her best friend, Vivian, is
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: texting her, telling her, don't, because she wanted to end
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: the live. And her best friend is telling her, don't leave, wait.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: There's a really expensive gift coming for you. And Valeria
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: says in the live stream, ooh, an expensive gift. Un
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: regalo costoso. She says that. And then the delivery guy,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: you can't see what's happening outside of the salon because
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: her camera, her phone is facing her and there's a
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: wall behind her. but she's looking outside of the salon.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: And I guess she sees that the delivery guy is coming.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And she mutes the live, and at that point, the
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: individual comes in and shoots her three times, and she
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: dies holding the pig stuffed animal. And, um.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: In this interview with... the individual who's accused of killing
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: her or putting the hit on her, He says that
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: he loved her, that they had fights, but he never
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: would have killed her. And there was documented conflict and
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: toxicity in her relationship with him. She posted screenshots on
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: her Instagram story of how someone she was in a
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: relationship was threatening her in messages saying, you don't want
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: to find out what kind of guy I become or
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: what I'm capable of when you piss me off. And
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I think if I remember correctly in the interview.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Did Luis bring that up in the interview? Yeah. What
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: did he say to that?
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: About the threats and stuff. And I don't know if
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: he said explicitly those messages, but he brought up the
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: talk or how she had claimed one time that when
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: she showed up to a nightclub that he was at,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: he got her kicked out. And, um, the, the accused says,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: you know, we're just like two young people in love
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: and it's part of a toxic relationship. Of course we
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: had conflict like any relationship, but never to the point
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: where I would want her to be killed, is what
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: he said. But I mean, when you... And he says
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: that she knew what family he came from. Uh, and that,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you know, she knew his dad, his parents, his family, uh,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: and vice versa. He knew hers.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: But....
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I think... I mean, my opinion doesn't matter on this case, but.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: when.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: You're talking about someone who, you know, he claims that
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: he cared about her and never wanted her to die
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: and that it should have never resulted in that. Then
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: go to the authorities. Speak your truth, you know?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: So was that R1 he interviewed?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: No, R1' s son.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: R1' s son, excuse me.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: So R1 is accused of killing Carlos Manso. And in
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: the same breath, his son was accused of asking R1
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: to send someone to kill Valeria.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Is R1' s son affiliated? I mean, is he active in
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the cartels, or is he just, you know, got a
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: relation to R1?
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Well, he says no, and that, you know, it's his family,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: and he... You know, what everyone does is their business
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: type of thing, but... Mm-hmm.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Read between the lines.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Why do you think, you know, when these guys are wanted...
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I can see this guy, because he wants people to
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: think he's innocent.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: He's innocent. He wants to clear his name.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: But let's just go back. I mean... You've interviewed guys
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: that are wanted by authorities. What are they doing? Like,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: that's just shitty tradecraft to me. Why are they talking
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: to investigative journalists? Why are they not undercover all the time?
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Is that the ego? Do they just want to see
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: themselves in the media?
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Ego is part of it, but a big part, too,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: is getting their version out. It's PR. And, you know,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: we've seen this time and time again with cartels. They're
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: big into PR. They'll put out sort of their own, like,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: press releases. Um, whether that be, like, they'll start circulating
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: an official document or when they put the narco banners
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: around the city or near dead bodies. Um, that's PR
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: for them. They're sending messages to the public. Um, even
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: you'll see videos. Uh, the Cartel del Noreste is really, uh,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: known for this, where they'll set up a camera, CG
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: & G does this too, they'll set up a camera
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: and you'll have all the armed operatives of the cartel
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: and then one guy in the middle announcing a message,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: saying something. They did that for a lot of big
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: news stories that came out, painting them in a really
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: bad light. to kind of clear their names or clarify
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: the details of whatever they're doing. And then when it
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: comes to speaking to journalists, it's, of course, a combination of, uh, PR. So,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: you know, for, like, for this accused killer, Valeria, now
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: there's this interview of him speaking his so-called truth, right? So,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: he can kind of, in his hopes, clear his name, uh,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: give his side of the story, but also, it sends
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: a message of, yeah, ego and power. Catch me if
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: you can. You know, there's this manhunt for me, and
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting here comfortable speaking to a journalist on camera
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: for the world to see.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I wonder, I mean, why don't you think that... How
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: bad do you think they really want these guys?
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Who, Mexico or the US?
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Either one. I mean, it seems like it'd be pretty simple,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Maybe not you, but money talks. You know, it would
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: be pretty simple to flip a journalist or introduce a
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: fake news organization and build rapport through time. Like, oh,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: look at all these articles reporter A has done since, well,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: started today, 2026. Then a couple of years go by
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: and it's just, you know what I mean? And then
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: you can use this army of undercover journalists to feed
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: these guys' ego to find out where they are. Done.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think it would take long to replace,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: you know, to replace the leadership. I mean, if there
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: was a point in time during the global war on
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: terror where I think the number two had like a,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: we were killing the number two every two weeks. Yeah.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Which is happening now.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? So I don't think it
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: would be any different with the cartel, but still, I mean,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: it's a, It makes people, you know what I mean?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: It shows we can get to you.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I would hope that they don't start using journalists as, like,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: boys like that because I would not get any access
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: and my life would be in danger, so.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, though, right?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm asking, like, it can't be. If you're
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: getting to them and Chaparro is getting to them and
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: all these other journalists, I mean, they can't be that
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: hard to get to. You just have to build some
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: type of a presence. Report. To feed that ego.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that too. I think also because, you know, I
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: have a really good track record of, well, a clear one,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: of being able to speak with victims and perpetrators, high-level individuals,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: and they don't get caught afterwards. You know, I'm not
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: like leading them into like a trap. That's actually my
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: biggest fear. Like if that were to ever happen, I'm
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: super careful about that. I'm more scared of that than
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: just getting shot dead, like set up. Um, but... I
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: think when you ask, you know, how badly do they
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: want them, Mexico doesn't want them badly.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: They.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Cartels make up so much of Mexico's economy. You eradicate cartels,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: you eradicate the Mexican economy. Point blank. And so many
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: high-level politicians, ranking officials that are on the payroll that
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: directly benefit off of organized crime. Why would they want
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: that to end?
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. I mean, it makes sense. It does make sense.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: So what is the... Let's switch gears here a little bit.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: What's the landscape like down there? Who's in charge now?
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: There's always a battle. It's like a full-scale war down there.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: It really is. Did you see what I posted yesterday?
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: There were car bombs and IEDs going off in Zacatecas,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Mexico because there's a very active cell of CG &
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: G in Zacatecas called... Fuerzas Zacatecas Nueva Generación, so New
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Generation Zacatecas Forces. It's a sub-cell of CGNG. And there's
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: someone who I've actually been, who's kind of on my
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: radar within that cell, who's been really quickly climbing through
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the ranks of power. And it's very clear that this
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: cell of CGNG is becoming a very violent and powerful one.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Before we go into.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I get.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: The landscape.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Don't let me forget that either. Yeah, the landscape. I mean,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I think last time, if I remember correctly, it seemed...
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I think it was Sinaloa? Yes. It was kind of
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: running everything? So... No, it was.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: When I spoke to you last time, it was CG
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: & G, and Sinaloa was already fully in their whole
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: civil war, the infighting. And now, it's, of course, CG
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: & G, extremely powerful, and They're essentially absorbing the Chapitos
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: faction of the Sinaloa cartel, El Chapo's faction, because they
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: made an alliance with them, fighting against the Mayos Mayito
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Flacos faction of the Sinaloa cartel. And when I was
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: in Sinaloa this summer, I went to Culiacan and across
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Sinaloa for a couple of weeks, just to kind of
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: get the two-year update since El Mayo was captured. Sean,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: it was like, you're just, you're not walking in a city,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: you're walking in a morgue, okay?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Sheesh.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: From the moment I got there, I drove from Mazatlán
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: to Culiacán because I wanted to go through the towns
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: and kind of try to get a grasp of who's
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: controlling which areas because it's ever evolving. And when you're
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: going through these small towns and you're taking that highway
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: from Mazatlán to Culiacán, and I took the old highway,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: not the new highway, so it's like, I guess in...
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: layman's terms, like more dangerous, like just to really understand it,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: you can see who's controlling there. You know, you'll see
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: the white sombreros, which represent, okay, this area, Mayitos faction. Um,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: and I drove through there. As soon as I touched
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: down in Culiacan, You know, I let all my journalist
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: friends over there, incredible journalists over there, fucking fearless. I
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: told them, you know, I'm coming, like, keep me in
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the loop with any big activity. As soon as I
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: got there, they're like, all right, there has been a murder.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: You want to pull up? It was far, I didn't
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: end up going. And then there was another one, and
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: then there was another one. So within the first four
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: hours that I got to Culiacan, I think I went
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: to six different crime scenes. I posted that video on
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: my YouTube channel. And you just see me going from
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: one scene to the next to the next. And as
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: the clips go on, you know, the sun is just
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: going down. And it's just constant. It was brutal. And
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: at a lot of these scenes, you know, family is
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: outside distraught, crying. And I showed that in my video.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: And some people gave me flack. They were like, you're so... insensitive.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: You know, this is the reality of it. And I
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: think a lot of the times, the collateral victims of
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: war and cartel violence are, you know, these family members.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: They're also victims of murder in a way. Their lives
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: change forever. And it's very, I mean, you've probably seen it.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: One thing that really gets me, it's not seeing the
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: dead body. People ask, like, how do you see the
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: dead body? It's not about that. what I find to
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: be the most jarring is when you literally see the
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: shift in the victims' families. You literally watch the realization
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: happen in real time that their lives will never be
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: the same again. Like, tonight is my first night without
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: my son for the rest of my life. And they
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: witnessed him get killed. But a lot of these murders, well,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: most of them in Sinaloa, these victims are involved. in
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: organized crime. It's this civil war continues on. Um, and
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: a lot of the people being murdered now are people
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: who are switching sides. So a lot of people have
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: switched from Chapito's faction to Mayo's faction, Mayito Flaco's faction,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: and those people are the ones being targeted heavily.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I'm always skeptical of health products that look clean on
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the front of the label, and then you turn it around,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and it's full of sugar, sweeteners, flavors, or artificial ingredients.
• 21:40
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• 21:42
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• 21:46
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• 21:51
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• 22:01
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• 22:04
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• 22:08
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• 22:13
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• 22:18
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• 22:23
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• 22:29
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• 22:55
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• 23:08
  Speaker 1: slash Sean and use code SRS. Well, that's interesting you
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: bring switching sides up because that's where I wanted to
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: go with this. How often are you seeing power exchange
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: in Mexico from prominent cartel to prominent cartel?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I can't even keep up with it right now.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, so they own... The vast majority of politicians down
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: there run off the cartels.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: And so what I want to know is how are
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: they navigating that? How are politicians down there who are
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: for sale, which sounds like it's pretty much all of them,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: not unlike the U.S. It's a lot of them. I mean,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: how do they know when to switch sides? Or are
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: they getting killed all the time? Because that can be
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: obviously a very tricky game Especially, I mean, if prominent
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: cartel gets taken over by another cartel and then this
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: one comes back.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: What do you do?
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: So, okay, great example of this is Rubén Rocha Moya,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: governor of Sinaloa. I think last time I was on
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: your podcast, I said, this guy is the most corrupt
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: motherfucker ever. And he was just indicted by the US
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: a couple months ago. Um, this is someone who has
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: had a very strong alliance with the Chapitos faction of
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the Sinaloa Cartel, with El Chapo. Um, and he.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Has been profiting off of it for a long time, openly,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: at the cost of the people in that state.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: to kind of paint you a picture, he was having
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: a sort of dispute with a state legislator in Sinaloa.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: This was right before El Mayo was captured. And this
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: was kind of part of the whole bigger picture of
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: how the Sinaloa Cartel, or how El Chapo's faction, at least,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: and his family are going to move forward and be protected. So,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: when El Mayo was captured, it was because he was
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: set up by El Chapo's son to go to a
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: meeting to resolve the conflict between the governor of Sinaloa,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Rocha Moya, And this state legislator, his name escapes me
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: right now. When he gets there, he allegedly gets beaten
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: up and then he ends up on that small aircraft
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: that lands him in Santa Teresa, New Mexico, where he's
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: taken in by the FBI. Rocha Moya walked out of
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: that meeting alive and continued to be governor of Sinaloa.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: The legislator was murdered. during that encounter. So... I think
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: what a lot of these politicians are doing, they're playing
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: the game as far as they can get to the
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: point where I think a lot of them at this point, particularly,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: their hands are sort of tied. I'm not defending them
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: by any means. I hate these guys. But their hands
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: are tied in the sense of they can't move too
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: much to the left or too much to the right
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: or talk to this guy or do this action because
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: they will get murdered.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: So.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's... Do they have a choice? I mean, are
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: they interested in monetary value, you know, and being paid off?
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Or are they interested in just keeping their lives?
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: You know what my belief about this is? Hot take.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: If you're going to become a politician in Mexico and
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: you want to be a good politician, either fucking stand
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: your ground and be willing to die for it and
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: be good, or don't do it. Because the only other
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: option is you're doing it either with the incentive to
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: make dirty money and be on the payroll, or you're
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: doing it scared and haphazardly and accepting the pay or
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: doing what they want, and you're a bad politician. And
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: everyone's suffering because of it.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I guess there's no surprises either at this point. I mean,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious, you know, what you're walking into. Of
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: course it is. Of course. Are there any legit politicians
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: down there?
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, Carlos Manso was one of them. Uh,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: that was someone who really took a stand against... organized crime.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Lili Tellez, she's in, um... in the Senate, I believe.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: She's a Mexican politician. She really speaks out against organized crime,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: and she'll call out these corrupt officials by name. Uh,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: but they're very few and far in between. And the
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: reason for that... is because when the president of the
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: country herself is profiting off of organized crime and allowing
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: it to happen, how can anyone else at a lower
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: level be clean?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Good point. So let's move back to, you were talking
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: about somebody that you were interested in that's been rising
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: through the ranks. Ah, yeah. So.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Zacatecas has become a hot... Well, I mean, Zacatecas was
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: always known as a big cartel hotspot. And any time
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: that I go there or pitch a story to do
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: over there, uh, no one wants me to go because
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: everyone thinks I'm gonna die. Hasn't happened yet, touch wood.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: But there's a lot going on there, and I find
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: that Zacatecas is a really good region to kind of
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: understand the greater landscape of not only CJNG's control of
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: the state, but cartels in general. Like, what we're seeing
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: in Zacatecas is that CJNG has this stronghold, and because
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: of their alliance, but because of just who they are,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: they're fighting against Mayo's faction of Sinaloa cartel operating in Zacatecas.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: This sub-cell formed, and it has now become extremely powerful, the.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: New generation Zacatecas forces, where they are just killing and
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: waging war against Mayto Flaco's faction of the cartel and
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: any of the Mayos operating in Zacatecas, but also law enforcement.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: And they actually killed a police officer yesterday. I think
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: it was just one. It may have been more, but
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: there was one for sure. And they're really showing their
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: power there. And a lot of these guys were actually
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: with the metros under El Sapo, who's also a major
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: figure within CG & G. So, yeah. I know it's
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of names and words, but it's important because
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: it shows how all of these subcells and groups, especially
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: pertaining to CGNG, are in a way connected. And because
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: of how these subcells and certain groups high-ranking plaza bosses
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: or commanders within CJNG have their own loyal followings, that
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: has been what's perpetuated this overall control that CJNG has
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: gained across all of Mexico. And that's a big part
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: of why when El Mencho was captured, killed in February,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: we didn't see like this huge breakdown of CG &
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: G and infighting and extreme violence. I mean, you know,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: there was like a blip of buses were on fire,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: a National Guard was getting attacked, but we weren't seeing
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: like this restructurization and house of cards falling in of CJNG,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: which could have been expected considering their leader, the Kingpin,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: was taken out. But because there are so many strong
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: entities within CJNG, and it's operating like a Fortune 500
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: with major figures with their own loyal followings, the amount
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: of control and power they have over so much of
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: the population and the country, it's It's hard to even, like,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: grasp it.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Who would, I mean... When you're talking about subsidiaries to
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: major cartels, why even have subsidiaries under different names? Why
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: don't they just absorb them under the same name?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, from my understanding, the reason why they do it
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: is to maintain strong, loyal, and intact territorial control within
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: smaller regions, right? The naming thing has to do with
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: who's the leader and to know, like, okay, this group
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: commits an act. Yes, we are CG & G, but
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: that's us. You know, it's not just the broader CG
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: & G. Does that make sense?
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: No.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: It doesn't?
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Can you... I mean, I'm thinking of it like Hells Angels,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the Mongols. Okay. The Gambino crime family, like all these other...
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: organized crime organizations to my knowledge. They're all under one.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: hierarchy.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Correct? And then you have the Los Angeles chapter, the
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: San Antonio chapter, the Chicago chapter, the DC chapter, the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Miami chapter, but they all fall under... one conglomerate.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: It is kind of like that in the sense. So,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: when we're talking about FZNG, the Zacatecas Forces, that sub-cell,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: They're responsible for certain trafficking pipelines, certain amount of control
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: in that region, paying off specific politicians and law enforcement.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: And so, in a way, even though they're part of
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: this great organization, they're also running their own independent operations
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: that still are benefiting the greater organization.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Is that better?
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Sorry, sometimes I get lost in the sauce, you know?
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I'm so in the weeds with it. You know, sometimes
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: someone who has no knowledge will ask me, like, hey, so, yeah,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: the cartel, and it's just, like, a million miles a minute.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: What the hell are you talking about?
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: So who oversees the entire thing? Is there one person
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: that oversees the entire thing?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's 03 now. It's Elemental's stepson. He is, he was, um.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: How does he ensure his vision's being played out over
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: that many different organizations?
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Because he has good relationships with other high commanders who have,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like a higher, like a triangle, right?
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: You'll have him at the top, and then you've got
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: these top commanders, and then you've got the plaza bosses,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: and then you've got so-and-so down here, and sub-cell leader,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: and miscellaneous individuals even lower, right? That message is always
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: getting passed through, and the higher up you go, those individuals,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: plaza bosses, commanders, are ensuring that people are acting in line.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Everyone underneath is doing what the boss wants.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Do you ever see any subsidiary cartels move in as
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: kind of a Trojan horse to take down the entire...
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Do you see what I'm saying?
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, but so far that has not happened with CJNG.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: But you have seen it before.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: It's definitely happened. And that's why we see factions splinter off,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: and cartels completely dissolve, and new ones are created. I mean, like,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Los Zetas do not exist anymore, but.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Those are the guys that were the... all special ops guys, supposedly, right? Yeah.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: And most, like, the head guys are now in the
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: United States. They were part of the first fugitive transfer,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Zeta Cuarenta. Yeah, they were very violent. They were the
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: special force guys, the ops guys. But, um... And they're
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: trained by U.S. forces.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Um....
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: But back to the splintering off, that does happen where
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: one massive organization will sort of have sub-cells emerging and
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: now it's more localized loyalty as opposed to like the kingpin.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And so if that individual says, you know what, I'm
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: gonna start my own cartel. They can go and do that.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: And there will be a lot of bloodshed associated with that, and,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of all-out war at times. But if
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: they're successful, then they're starting their own operation, and they're
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: making their own contacts, or they already had contacts with
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: the Colombians, and the Guatemalans, and the Americans, and even
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: the Canadians, right? And the ports in Spain. So they
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: can do that. We haven't seen that happen with CJNG yet. However,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I believe that there are two significant figures high up
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: within CG & G who I could picture being, splitting
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: off and starting their own thing in a near future.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not 100% about that, but I have seen and
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: been told some things from sources that there's a little
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: bit of conflict. It dies down pretty quick. There's a
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: difference in opinion or how things should run. And those
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: two individuals respectively have their own significant loyal followings and
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: territories that they control. So if they really wanted to,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: they could. However, being a unified organization means more money.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. I mean, I would imagine the riff
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: inside each cartel is pretty bad, too.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: There was a big riff when El Mencho was killed.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: And it was... It was hard for me to verify
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: it at first. But... Look, I'm not doing this to
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: be dramatic. I just, I don't want to give too
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: many details because, you know, I go back to Mexico
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: and I, you know. But there was someone very high
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: ranking within CG & G, a known figure, who after
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Almencho was killed, really wanted to up the ante on
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: the violence and to send some pretty wicked messages. And
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: another high ranking member said, absolutely not. Squash that shit.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: And it ended there. But I think that was kind
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: of like, that really did it for me. It was
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: like a telltale sign, okay, motivations might be changing. Ideologies
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: are shifting here. Not everyone is fully on the same page.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: And there's been a lot of change in this organization
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: because El Mencho was the leader. And now it's his stepson,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Cero Tres, which essentially means that there's been this resurgence
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: of the millennial cartel. CG & G is essentially run
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: by the Queenies, the Valencia family, who were the ones
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: who started trafficking, exporting cocaine into the United States. They
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: had those Colombian connections and they had the pathways into
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: the United States because they were, um, exporting avocados from Michoacán.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: And now this is the very family that always had
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: the money behind CG & G, but now they are
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: also the muscle and the leaders.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Wow. That's interesting. I was going to bring up, you know,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: what are, every time I talk to you or Luis
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: or Ed, it seems like the business lines change, you know?
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Because it always is.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, I don't want to lose this question either.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: So we'll get to that. But how much, you're talking
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: about just mass violence. I mean. Yeah. You went to Sinaloa,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I think you said, and you saw six murders in
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: the first four hours. and that's just you. I'm sure
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of other murders that are happening simultaneously.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: What, I mean, what, what, do you have any idea,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: what's the estimation of how much of the Mexican population
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: is involved at a low level, at a high level,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: just involved on the cartel's payroll? from the street lookout
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: people to the... to the assassins, to the politicians. I mean,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: is it the entire country?
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: That's a big one. Um.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Is there anybody that's not involved?
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Of course. Yeah. I have some really great friends who
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: are not involved.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: So you think. Uh, no.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: No, there's definitely a lot of people who are not, but.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: The vast majority have some sort of nexus to the
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: organized crime. And it makes sense, right? Like, if we're looking.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Would you say over 50%?
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say that. Definitely over 50%.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Would you say over 75%?
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: But it's a lot more than half. If we're looking
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: at it from, like, you know, an economy perspective, the
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: cartels are, like, the third... largest employer in Mexico?
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I think. What's number one? I'm surprised it's not number one.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Probably agriculture. That's a great question. I'm gonna sound like
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: a dumbass because I actually don't have this off the
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: top of my head, but I know that they're in
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: the top five of probably top three of employers, which
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: how do you even quantify that?
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it is. I don't know if
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: you can do it.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, but it's when you're then including, okay, politicians
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: on the payroll, law enforcement. So people who, and when
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: I mean law enforcement, people who are not actively trafficking
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: drugs or arms, but rather just simplest of it, turning
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: a blind eye, looking the other way. Inherently then, you
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: are part of organized crime, right? But you're not technically
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: a criminal. So... it's certainly over 50%. It's definitely a
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: really disheartening percentage.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, it is. It just makes me like, what
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: hope do they have?
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: The hope is that the culture is beautiful when you
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: look past all of this.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: You're like, shut the hell up.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: So, what.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Are there other South Central American countries that aren't overtaken
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: by this? How far... into Central South America, is this? Oh,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: very deep. Is this infiltrated?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: It goes, okay, so Guatemala, big part of it, okay?
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: They're consumed. Ecuador, same. And then it goes low. Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Brazil, even.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: So the connections... Influenced by Mexican cartel? Or at least
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: have connections with them. You know what's interesting? You bring
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: up the influence of that. So when I went to
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Colombia in January, I went right when Maduro was captured
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: because I wanted to get into Venezuela and they had
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: closed their airspace. So I went to Cucuta, which is
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: a small town in Colombia right along the Venezuelan border.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: And Cucuta, at one point in time, especially when El
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Chapo was, you know, still free and running the Sinaloa cartel,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: was a major hotspot for Chapo's operators. And a lot of,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: you know, even his family members, his nephews and major
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: commanders within Sinaloa Cartel were going to Cucuta to run
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: operations from within Colombia. And it's not too far from Catatumbo,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: which is where you'll see those hectares of coca plant grow-ups.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I actually took a helicopter ride to see, and all
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: you see are just coca leaves for miles and miles.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: And so... the presence isn't really there as much anymore
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: since 2010. And when I went there, there is so
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: much even cultural influence from Mexico because of the time
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: when the Mexican cartels were using this as like a
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: hub for trafficking cocaine. Wow. So, and I think that
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: paints a really good picture when you ask me of,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: you know, what's the influence, uh, further south in South
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: America and deeper in Latin America of the cartels. Well,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: they've been around for so long and their ties and
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: nexus to these countries and the individuals operating within them
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: is so strong that they've even managed cultural influence over them. Uh,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: you go to this... small bar in the middle of
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: nowhere along the Colombian-Menezuelan border and they're playing regional Mexican
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: music and everybody knows the words.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: And they're even dressing with that sort of... cartel guy... swagger.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: The style, yeah.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: It was... It shocked me to see it. I wasn't
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: expecting that. I actually didn't know, had no idea it
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: would be like that.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: So what are the lines of business? I mean, so far... Everything.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, it does, it seems like everything. I mean, obviously, fentanyl, cocaine, drugs,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: probably marijuana. We know that stuff. I don't even know.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Is that stuff still the primary focus? Because it was
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: either you or Luis last time I talked to you guys.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: They were taking over the water supplies. They were taking
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: over the avocado farms. Then there's human trafficking.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Crude oil theft.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Crude oil, which I would imagine. I mean, so what,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: is there any, and the whole point of this was
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: to appear legit, correct?
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Of course, it's to appear legit and to diversify the.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Portfolio. Yeah.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: The revenue.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Are there any new sources of revenue? Is the entire
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: water supply under.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: I think we talked about this last time, that they
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: were also monopolizing, like, Wi-Fi, providing Wi-Fi internet services in
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: smaller towns, for the most part. They're not doing this in, like,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: major cities. But yeah, smaller towns, they'll go and they'll
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: cut the Wi-Fi wires. In small towns in Mexico too,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: it's not like wireless. And so they're going cutting it up,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: putting up their own and then going door to door
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: and being like, now you're going to pay me and
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I'm going to provide you the Wi-Fi. Crude oil, we
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: spoke about, that's a big one. And here's the thing,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: because sometimes I see people say, well, we have to
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: end the demand for drugs in order to end the cartels.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: That's a complete fallacy because it doesn't matter whether drugs
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: exist or not if they are profiting off of almost
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: every good or service that they can take to the
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: black market and make it profitable. Because crude oil is
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: not a black market good, right? It's what makes the
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: world go round. But when these guys are tapping into
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: state-run pipelines in Mexico, stealing the crude oil and then
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: driving it across the US and selling it to, you know,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: mom-pop refineries, for half the price than if they were
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: to purchase it legally, that becomes a black market....
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: The avocados, same thing. And, you know, that's been going
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: on for ages. But that's also because of the region
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: in which, uh, Avocados grow in Mexico and Michoacán. It's
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: a major cartel hotspot. And actually, just a few months ago,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: the U.S., like, momentarily stopped the avocado, um, import-exports from,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: from Michoacán because of how extreme the cartel violence had
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: gotten and how many, how so many of the local
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: farmers and, and agriculture producers were under extreme threats of
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: their lives and of their livelihoods. And it's really sad.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: And I'm not sure if I said last time, but,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: you know, avocados is not an easy thing to grow.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: It can take like 30 years to grow an Haas
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: avocado tree. You know, this is people's lives. It's a
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: generational trade. And then you have guys coming in armored,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: in armed vehicles saying, I'm going to fucking kill you
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: or you're going to pay me a quota, which is
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: typically 80% of how much these farmers are earning. How
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: do you even survive? How do you support your family?
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: How do you support your crop? if 80% of your
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: revenue is going to extortion fees, or if you can't
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: pay that, this is no longer your land. We own
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: it and we run it. So people are fleeing, leaving
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: their generationally owned avocado orchards, or they're being murdered, or
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: they're paying an extortion fee to the point where they
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: lose their livelihoods entirely. So yes, every single method has
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: been taken over by them. And of course, in order
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: for that to happen, it goes back into what you
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: were saying earlier, that directly ties back to the ignorant
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: politicians who allow it to happen and who are profiting
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: off of it. Because that's one thing that I really
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: believe that there could be a crackdown on and say, listen,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: you guys want to traffic your drugs and your arms?
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Leave the farmers alone. You know, leave the pipe, the
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: oil lines alone. That stuff stays legal, but they don't
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: do that. I mean, great example of this, of just
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: how high it goes. Miss Universe, she's, Mexico was Miss Universe, right?
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Her father is a high executive in Pemex, because Mexico's
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: oil is state-run, Pemex. And he's been accused, I don't
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: know whether or not it's formal, if it actually was
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: taken to court, of a $ 700 million contract with the
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: one of the main execs of the Miss Universe competition.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: because he's also very involved in Mexican politics. They had
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: a 700 million peso contract, which just so happened to
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: come to fruition during the Miss Universe contract. And this
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: individual is actually in Mexico now, in Mexico's Federal Witness
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Protection Program, because he was accused of trafficking crude oil,
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: stealing it, trafficking it, and arms. And so, Now we're
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: talking about organizations that go so beyond, even bypass Mexico.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: And Miss Universe has me blocked on Instagram.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: But I just, I don't... How do you dismantle that?
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I don't. It's kind of what I was getting at.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, it almost seems like there's no hope for them.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: It goes so very far.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Even as a politician, I mean, what? You're saying well
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: over 50% of the people, the population down there. You
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: said less than 75%, but more than 50%.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's... Because I don't want to be inaccurate, but.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: It's a big gap, though, is what I'm saying. And
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of people. It is. A lot of people.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Why did the U.S. turn the flow of avocados back?
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Because they turned it back on.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why did they turn it back on?
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: There actually wasn't a reason for it, but I guess
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I would assume that, you know, violence decreased. Doubt it, but...
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I were to send a press inquiry,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: that's probably the answer I would get.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: What other kind of international trade are they involved in
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: other than avocados, obviously oil? What other countries are partaking?
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: What other countries are partaking?
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: These are legitimate businesses that I don't know how many
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: people realize or know what's run by the cartel over there.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they know them. the water supply,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: the avocado trade. Everybody thinks cartels, they think drugs.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Drugs, humans, and guns.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Drugs, human trafficking. Yeah.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: And you know, the focus lately, especially during this administration,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: it's been so heavily placed on fentanyl. And if we
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: look at official numbers from both the US and Mexico,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: it seems like, you know, fentanyl seizures at the border
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: have gone down. I have a hard time trusting those
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: numbers because how can you quantify seizures? Like, how do
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: you know what is getting through. Like, you can know
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: what isn't, but do you know what I mean? But
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: cocaine is getting through at unprecedented numbers because the focus
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: was so heavy on fentanyl that cocaine was kind of
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: left in this area of, okay, let's just keep pushing it.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: All different levers.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, and the United States is certainly losing the war
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: on cocaine by a landslide. So....
• 52:56
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  Speaker 1: today and get access to the full experience. All right, Katarina,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: we're kind of talking about international trade and legitimate businesses
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: and how they bled into Central South America. How have
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: they bled into the U.S.? Mm-hmm. Have they bled into
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: the U.S.? Of course. Yeah.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Without the U.S., I don't think cartels would be successful,
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: to be honest. Whether that's, of course, through the obvious,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: like drug consumption, but also they are the ones purchasing
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: stolen crude oil, the avocados. You know, I think all
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: three of us, Ed, Luis, and I have all said it, that, like,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: the Super Bowl is, like, a great day if you're
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: a cartel operative who profits off of stolen avocados. Which,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of this is directly linking, of course, to
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: the U.S. And there are certainly significant cartel operatives residing
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: in the U.S. One important thing to mention, the new
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: leader of CG & G, Cero Tres and Mencho Stepson,
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: is an American citizen. He was born in Santa Ana, California.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: And this is really the first time where a major
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: kingpin is an American citizen. It's supposed to make that
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: harder for U.S. authorities who are, you know, applying the
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: kingpin strategy left, right, and center when it comes to
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Mexican cartels, just because of intelligence gathering, right? Technically, the
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: CIA can't but he's also running a foreign terrorist organization,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: so it's great no matter how you look at it.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: But....
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Another... you know, I know we say the humans, the
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: human trafficking, the sex trafficking, is a major operation, particularly too,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: for CG & G. CG & G doesn't really touch
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: fentanyl the way the Sinaloa cartel does, because fentanyl production
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: was created by... allegedly. Ivan Archibaldo, El Chapo's son. He
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: was the one that got in touch with the Chinese cooks,
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: figured out that this synthetic, easy-to-make drug, highly addictive, potent drug,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: would be very profitable for them. CJ & G, however,
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: focuses more on meth, cocaine, human trafficking. I never really
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: wanted to cover human trafficking or sex trafficking for the
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: very selfish reason of it's very hard to talk about,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: hear about. It's very tragic. And a lot of the
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: work is tragic, but this is something where you feel
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: like you cannot make anything better and you're talking to
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: victim after victim who has been brutalized by sex trafficking.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: you want to die. And so, this summer, I did
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: a whole story on how human sex trafficking in Mexico
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: directly links to the United States and how a lot
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: of the major individuals responsible for trafficking women from central
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: and southern Mexico and even further down in South America
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: are these men in control or family networks, I guess,
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: are actually operating from the United States. Um, and they're
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: going into these small towns and they're luring and recruiting
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: women and bringing them to border towns and some of
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: them bringing them into the United States where they're working
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: at clandestine bars, uh, as sex workers. And they were
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: misled to be there. They... didn't know that they were
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: going to have to provide sexual services against their will.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: And most of the clientele, at least from the women
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: that I spoke to who got out of it or
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: are still in it, unfortunately, especially along borders and obviously
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: in the United States, they say that most of their
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: clientele are Americans. And so when I did this story,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: I was like into Juana and I'm like, you know,
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of you recognize where I'm at.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: I had all the famous strip clubs behind me, Hong Kong.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know, some of you probably come
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: here to have fun and for cheap sex. But let's
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: talk to the women who are actually providing these services
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: who didn't know or ever imagined that they would end
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: up here. And it's a very sophisticated network. These women
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: are from small towns, most of them. They're very young.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: And typically, a lot of them come from pretty conservative families.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Very religious, like not a lot of exposure. And not
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: saying that's a bad thing, but you know what I mean.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: It's just a smaller world. And a man who splits
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: his time between Mexico and the United States comes to
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: this small town and falls in love with the 17-year-old girl.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: You know, he's older, but she's never had a guy
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: pay attention to her in this way. And she will
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: fall in love. It's the Romeo method. He wins her over,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: even wins the family over a lot of the time.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: And will either sleep with her, like take her virginity,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: or maintain it and say, we're going to have sex
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: after we get married. And then he will tell her,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: you know what? For work, we have to go to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: this border town. Let's use TJ's common one. Let's go
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: to Tijuana. For work, you know, we're gonna move there
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: just for a little bit. You're gonna do great, blah, blah.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: And this young woman, okay, this is what I have
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: to do for my family, my man. I've never, you know,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: been in a relationship, whatever. They move to Tijuana. And
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: as soon as she gets there, she's thrown into a
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: house where multiple other women are living with this man.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: And she's told that she has to go and make
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: X amount of money every night. a.k.a. sleep with as
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: many men as possible until you make this quota. And
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: if you don't, he will beat you up very severely.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: And they withhold everything from these women. Their phones, their IDs,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: everything is taken away from them. And they will even
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: go through the legal route through... to want a sanitary department.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: There's an official name for it where you legally register
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: as a prostitute. They will do that for these women.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: So sometimes they'll wait until these women turn 18 so
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: they can legally register them. Some of them will even
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: legally marry them. So these women essentially become like their property.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: And one of the women I spoke to who's from
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: a small town in central Mexico where a lot of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: women get trafficked and a lot of traffickers actually originate
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: from She told me as soon as she got to
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Tijuana with her husband, he took her phone, her IDs,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: registered her. She didn't want to work. He beat her
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: up so badly, she went to the hospital, was very scared,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: and started working. And for 10 years, gave sexual services
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: to up to 30 men a night.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Sheesh.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, worst thing you've ever heard, right? And then she.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: Tried to go to the authorities, her with some other girls.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: And they said, okay, first of all, I'm giving an
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: idea of what she told me. She said, first of all,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: they told her, well, you're married to him. So that's
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: a spousal dispute. That's on you guys. Like whatever he's
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: making you do or whatever's going on there, like you
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: guys are just in a fight. And also, you know,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: No one is forcing you by your hair to go
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: work the corner. You choose to go out and work
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: there and give the sexual services. So they didn't do anything.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: And it was very hard for her to escape.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: How did she escape?
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: She got pregnant with him. And, you know, I asked her,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: I said, were you worried? Because his whole family, this
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: trafficker and the man she considers to be her husband,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: the whole family... does human trafficking. This is very common
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: in Mexico where it's family networks who have generationally done
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: human trafficking and then they are giving money or kind
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: of operating in tangent with like the cartel, but they
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: are not themselves the cartel. And she got pregnant and
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: she was like, she had already lost a pregnancy before
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: and she said, I had to leave. And she goes,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: I just grabbed all my shit And I got back
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: home and I had, like, no money to do it.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: And she escaped to her family. And I asked her,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: you know, were you afraid? And she still has a
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: relationship with her trafficker, who she considers her husband, because
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: he's the father of her child. And she told me that...
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: she feels like no man will ever love her knowing
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: what she has done in her life. So, this is
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: the only man who has, in a way, as evil
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: as he was, and she said this, as evil as
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: he was, is still with her.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Sheesh.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: And when she told me that she got pregnant, which
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: was what she used, I guess, as leverage to leave,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: I said, I was like, you know, were you worried
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: that it would be a girl? Because it's actually quite common, unfortunately,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: where traffickers will impregnate the girls, and then if it's
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: a daughter, then They'll bring them up, whatever, and then
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: that girl gets trafficked. And in our interview, she starts
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: bawling when I asked her this. And then I start crying.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: And she was like, my biggest fear was to have
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: a girl. I prayed every night that God would not
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: send me a daughter. Because life as a woman is horrible.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: And the life that she lived was horrible.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: Tragic.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: And she told me... most of the clients she was
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: serving were American citizens. Americans who were coming to Tijuana
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: for sex tourism.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: And....
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: She was abused a lot. Of course, you know, it
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: comes with the territory.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that was the worst thing ever. And she
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: did tell me of a lot of girls she knew
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: that were trafficked who were in Tijuana with her at
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: some point, um, and then if they were, like, successful, a.k.a.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: making a lot of money or, you know, very attractive,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: considering the atmosphere, they would be taken to major cities
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: in the United States to provide services. San Diego, Houston, LA,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: New York is also a big one.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Shit.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: And actually, in this... So I went to Tlaxcala, it's
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: a state outside of Mexico City. It's actually kind of,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: there's a running joke on the state that it's the
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: forgotten state because it's the smallest. And a lot of
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: people haven't even heard of it. Even Mexican nationals, when
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I went to Tlaxcala, they're like, what the
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: fuck is that? There's a direct link between Tlaxcala as
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: a human trafficking hub to major American cities. A major
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: human trafficking network was actually taken down by authorities, American
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: authorities in New York, I want to say three years ago.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: And they were directly working with traffickers and getting girls
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: from Tlaxcala, the forgotten state of Mexico.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: It was the worst story I've ever done. And when
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: I did this story, I wanted to obviously speak with
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: the governor of Tlaxcala. You know, your state is known
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: as a human sex trafficking hub.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: That's not ideal.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: How are you combating this? And I had seen that
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: she had, what I had seen is three times she
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: had publicly denied that there was a human trafficking problem
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: in Tlaxcala. She said that it was being misrepresented and overblown.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: So I'm trying to set up an interview with her.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: And at first her office seems very keen. Yeah, she
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: wants to give her side of the story and That's
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: kind of also how I played it, right? I want
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: to know what's really happening. From you, you're the one
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: in charge. Tell me the truth. You know, I know
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: what the truth is. I'm fucking seeing it. I'm talking
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: to the people who are being terrorized by the reality
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: of the situation. But let's hear from the individual who's
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: supposed to maintain the integrity and the safety and well-being
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: of the state and its citizens, who's obviously not doing that,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: and let's see what she has to say. So I'm
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: speaking with the office of the governor to set this up.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: And a representative from her office, who I guess runs
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: all the media, um, situations, says to me, yeah, okay,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: gobernadora will talk to you. You're going to be here
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: on these dates. You can come to the palace, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: How much? And I'm like, how much? I have to
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: pay to do the interview? I don't do that. And
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: she goes, no, no, no. How much do you need
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: for a good interview? And I I'm listening to this
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, am I stupid? Like, am I not understand...
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: Do I not speak Spanish right now? And I'm like,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: you're gonna pay me to interview the governor? And she's like, yes,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: how much? I said, I'm sorry, I... I'm not understanding.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: So you're gonna give me money if I interview the governor?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: And she goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you can
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: send us, you know, the.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: Before you publish it, we'd just like to look it for.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that's not journalism, man. I don't do that.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: You know, I should have asked how much she would
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: be willing. That was, I was just so shocked in
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: the moment that that had happened. It was the first
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: time that I had been offered money by a government
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: official to do a story so that it would feed
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: their narrative. And I was shocked. Governor didn't end up
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: doing the interview with me. They gave me, um... A
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: secretary of women, which is a position in Mexico for
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: women's well-being and stuff tasked with women's safety. Governor didn't
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: Jeez.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: So you're offering me money to interview you because you
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: want me in my report to put that there isn't
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: a human trafficking problem. Right after I just spoke with
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: a woman who told me that she was... trafficked and
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: lured from this state, asked for help, never received it,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: and was terrorized for a decade of her life, and
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: is back here and has no resources to access to
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: even maybe make something better of her life that was destroyed?
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: Get wrecked.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: Wow. Wow.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: And when you talk about the American connection, I understand
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: that there's this perception that, well, you know, Cartels are
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: Mexico's problem. At least that was the perception for a
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: long time. And I think we even spoke about this
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: last time where, well, that's not our problem. I mean,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: you guys, I'm not American, but that's not a U.S.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Problem.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: That's a Mexico problem. And there was, has always been
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: this kind of distinction between, so U.S. is combating fentanyl
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: and cartels.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: Because fentanyl is killing Americans at record rates. But then
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: there's this other side of it that has a lot
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: more nuance, where now this Mexico problem is a problem
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: because of Americans. And now it's becoming an American problem.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: And I think human trafficking is a prime example of that.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Because these girls are being trafficked into the US, and
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: then these guys aren't getting caught, who's to say that
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: they're not also trafficking American women simultaneously? Of course they are.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: It's a massive network. And if it spans borders, they
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: have no limit.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: You know, Trump, did he announce all cartels, foreign terrorist organizations,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: or just a couple?
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: So, originally, it wasn't all of them. It was a
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: list of, I think, eight. Some were missing, but they've
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: since expanded that list. So I'm not sure if all
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: of them are designated yet, but for the most part,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: all bases are covered now.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: So has the U.S. done anything? Have they actually treated
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: them like terrorist organizations? Have there been any arrests, hits,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: drone strikes? Do we have intelligence services down there? A
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: lot of questions I just hammered you with. Let's start
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: with this. How has that affected the cartel's mindset and operations,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: if at all, by them being labeled a terrorist organization?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: I truly do not believe that the FTO designation actually
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: impacted cartel operations. They adapt like cockroaches, really. You know, U.S.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: will sanction someone, shut down this bank account, arrest this person,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter because they've already pivoted five different ways.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: In terms of arrests, people are... especially people on the
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: US side of the border who have links or are
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: operating or profiting off of the cartels are being arrested
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: and charged as foreign terrorists, which is different. So if
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: they're like colluding with the cartel, now you were operating,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: aiding with a foreign terrorist organization. In terms of intelligence,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: we know the US has been and is continuously gathering
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: intelligence on the ground in Mexico. When the FTO designation
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: was first announced, everyone was asking, that was the hot topic, right?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: Will there be American boots on the ground in Mexico?
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: In an intelligence capacity, yes, of course, and there has
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: been for a very long time. And we saw not
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: so long ago that two CIA agents were actually killed.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: They died in a car crash in Chihuahua. dressed in
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: Mexican police uniforms because they went to dismantle a meth lab.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we know intelligence is being gathered there. I mean,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: Ryan Wedding, El Mencho, those people are not being taken
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: out simply due to Mexican intelligence. I mean, US is
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: openly taking credit for it, for the intelligence gathering to
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: find the location of El Mencho. But when we're talking
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: about drone strikes, boots on the ground in terms of
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: typical warfare. I don't think that will ever happen. I
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: hope it doesn't. I've never wanted that to be the
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: case because I think it would result in a lot
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: more bloodshed and uncertainty and disorganization than good because the
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: cartels will fight.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, do they, since that's, how long ago did
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: that happen? Has it been about a year?
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: The FTO designation?
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: Two years.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: Two years? Well, it was.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was... Am I right?
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's about a year.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: No, when did... When was Trump... When did Trump take office? January... 2024.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: That was.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: Then it was two years. Yeah, that was... He signed
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: that executive order.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: It was 24, took office 25.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, so it was a year. I have no concept
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: of time these days.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: Me neither.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: It's so bad. It's so bad.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, since you've been down there in the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: past year and a half, is there any chatter about
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: when you're talking to these guys? They don't give a shit.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: They do not give a shit. Do they wear it
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: as a badge of honor?
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: Indifference.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: They don't care.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: Indifference.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: It's like it's never even happened. Yes.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: It makes no difference.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: Wow. I wasn't expecting that. According to polymarket.com, there's an
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: 11% chance of conducting a drone, missile, or airstrike inside
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: Mexico before the end of this year. How likely do
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: you think it is that the United States eventually carries
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: out a drone, missile, or airstrike against a cartel target
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: inside of Mexico?
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not a financial advisor, but do not bet on
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: that because it's not going to happen. It's not going
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: to happen.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: You don't think so, huh?
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: I'm actually very certain it won't. And the reason for
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: that is they don't need to do that. Their current
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: tactic of splintering the cartels and having them kill each
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: other off is a lot more effective and cheaper than
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: doing all of that shit.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It doesn't sound very effective to me
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: when we're talking about 50%.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: They're essentially dismantling the Sinaloa cartel.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but another one's just taken over.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that will always happen. The drone strike will
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: do the same thing. And it will turn people against
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: eradicating the cartels. People who do not want the cartels
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: because now you've caused war in their country, in their home.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: There was a video that just came out of a
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: group of women in, oh, it's a Southern state in Mexico.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: And they're being terrorized by the local cartel, local criminal groups.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: And they're saying in the video, they're these older Mexican women.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: President Trump, please help us. Please get rid of the cartels.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: They're asking a foreign president to help them with their
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: domestic problem. I don't think, though, drone strikes and full-blown
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: war would actually end up in that scenario by any means.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: And I think that what they're doing now is.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: So here's the thing. I don't personally believe it's effective,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: the whole kingpin strategy whatsoever, right? It's a hydra. You
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: cut off the hydra, two more grow back. They killed
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: El Mencho, which was supposed to be like, holy, you know,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: the ultimate kingpin. Boom, like nothing happened. 24 hours later,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: business as usual. But what they're doing with Sinaloa Cartel,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: for example, of turning everyone against each other and then
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: making deals with the very terrorists they're against, right? Striking
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: a deal with all of El Chapo's kids, the family. Oh,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: plea deal here. You can live in the US. Visa here.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: That sends more of a message to the cartels than
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: a drone strike. I do think, though, and there has
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: certainly been chatter, that a lot of these guys feel
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: like if they end up in U.S. custody, if they
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: have good information that the U.S. wants, they'll get a
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: easy break. Which is.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: Could not be a bad method.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: And it's true. Like, we're seeing it happen.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: For them, I mean.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. And I'm under the impression that that
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: is exactly the reason why Mexican forces killed El Mencho
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: and didn't capture him alive. You know, they say that
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: there was this massive shootout. I'm sure there was. And
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: that El Mencho died in transit to Mexico City. But
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: I think of anyone, El Mencho had so much information,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: particularly on high-ranking politicians that the U.S. is very interested in.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: And that would have been very bad.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: Well, that doesn't surprise me. By the way, I'm not
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: necessarily disagreeing with you on the drone strikes.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: No, but you can.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: I actually, if I did this, I'll roll the clip
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: right now. I think that the way to do it
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: would be, and I don't know, like I said, it's
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: been a minute since I've talked about this, but I
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: don't know how... how combative the cartels are towards each
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: other anymore. But I think what I would do is
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: I would probably create some type of a psychological operation
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: that pits the cartels against each other and basically create
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: a false narrative so that this cartel and this cartel
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: hate each other and they go to war with each
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: other and then find ways to intervene and You know
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: what I mean? I'm pretty sure I brought up this
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: exact method of turning the cartels against each other from
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: the inside, talking to Luis Chaparro many years ago.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: I think you actually also probably brought it up to me.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: But... you know, here's some things that we're not thinking
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: about with the drone strikes, you know? And I don't
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: know how they're set up, so this is all hypothetical.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: But drone strikes, precision strikes, however we do it, go
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: in there with U.S. force. which I don't necessarily think
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: we should be doing with as many wars as we're
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: involved in right now.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: But, you know, they do have to have supplies. You
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? So whether that's drugs, the supplies,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: the precursors that are coming from China, I mean, I
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: don't know how much of the infrastructure is funded by
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: drugs still, but if you were to take care of
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: those supplies, that's a big hit of funding. I know
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: that they export a shit ton of firearms, weapons, and
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: stuff from the U.S. I don't know what they're doing
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: with those. I don't know if they have caches, but
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: if they do have big caches, they could hit it
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: with a drone strike, you know what I mean, and
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: handicap their supplies. I know that they, which we're getting
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: ready to get into here after this, but FPV drones,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: it's becoming a big thing right Oh, they have a
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: shit ton of drones. You know what I mean? So
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: somebody's manufacturing those drones and they're likely in some type
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: of a facility manufacturing these drones. They can hit those.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? And so if there's high
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: concentrations of cartel, I'm not just talking about, you know
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: what I mean, hitting El Chapo or any of these
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: other leaders. It's about the supply. You hit the infrastructure.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: And you hit the infrastructure all at once and it
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: cripples them. On top of that, you also can play
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: into the, you know, who got this info to them,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? You could still turn them
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: into it, turn them against each other from the inside and,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: you know, play the exterior rivalry, you know what I mean?
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: Between cartel and cartel and just make it mass hysteria
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: down there for them. And so I don't know if
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: I would write it off completely, I do see what
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: you're saying. I mean, generally when bombs start going off
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: people's backyards, they don't like it. But it's already happening
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: all the time anyway down there. And it is affecting
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: more than just the U.S. I mean, I don't know
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: what the impact in Canada is, but it sounds, you know,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: they're going, they're bleeding into Europe. And so at some point,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: something's going to have to give here or else they're
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: just going to run the entire world. But what do
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: you think of that?
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's a good strategy. I mean, this is
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: not my job to create strategies on how to end cartels.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: You don't think about that ever?
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: I do, of course, but I don't think I'm the
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: expert to even pitch how to do it, to be honest.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: It's also not... It's not my responsibility.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: But I think that that could be effective because their weaponry, especially,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: like you said, the drones, the guns, that's what they need.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: They need that muscle. But I think they could do
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: it without drone strikes almost. Maybe I'm being naive. I'm
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: sure some people will think so. But 70% of the
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: guns in Mexico, well, at least found at crime scenes,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: are coming from the United States, are American made. And
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: so ideally, right, it would be best if that that's
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: stopped before they even get into the hands of the criminals.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: But just a few days ago, a massive shipment of
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: DJI drones in Mexico was stolen. They don't know who
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: stole it. You know, it could be cartel, it could
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: be someone who's gonna sell it. But I know that
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: the majority of weapons in Mexico are coming from the
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: US and Israel. And that goes beyond regular weaponry, right?
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: Even spyware. I think we talked about Pegasus last time.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: Mexico's the number one country of Pegasus. They were the
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: first country to actually do a contract with Pegasus. And
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: that's because actually a previous president, Peña Nieto, allegedly accepted
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: a $ 25 million bribe from two executives at NSO, the
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: company that started Pegasus spyware out of Israel. And he
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: implemented Pegasus as part of their uh, national security apparatus.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: It was the first country to do it. Uh, they
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: were the first one to, you know, have that contract.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: And then... an Israeli news outlet said that these two individuals,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: two execs for Pegasus, bribed the Mexican president at the
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: time with $ 25 million to implement Pegasus into their... a
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: national security apparatus, and Peña Nieto denied this. A person
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: who's never on social media following his presidency goes onto
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: Twitter and is like, this is terrible, there's no journalistic
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: rigor in this reporting, this is completely wrong, false, I
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: would never do this. And then a few days ago,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: a video comes to light. You see him at a
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: wedding with the very individual last name Neriah, I think,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: who gave him the $ 25 million bribe.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: Who was accusing, yeah. And in Israel, there was like
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: this tribunal held. It wasn't like official court, but it's
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: like five rabbis. It's kind of like an arbitrary kind
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: of court hearing with the two NSO individuals because they were,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: you know, having a dispute over the company. And one
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: of them says to Neriah, you know, you need to
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: pay me back. I want out of this. You need
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: to pay me back. So they're listing off everything that
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: he can get money from. And he goes, and remember,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: we bribed that president with 25 million. Give me the
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: 25 million. And Neria, the individual who was spotted with
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: Peña Nieto a few days ago, doesn't say, no, we
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: never did that. No, there's no money there. He says, no,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: it was less than 25 million, what we gave him.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: And that's all documented. And Pegasus took over. Mexico's state security.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: It became very problematic and very dangerous because, sure, perhaps
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: that was meant to be part of the infrastructure of
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: the government. It got into the hands of cartels. They
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: were using it to spy on journalists, on clean politicians,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: the few and far in between. And people were certainly
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: murdered because of the access to that, the widespread access. Sorry,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: that was a bit of a tangent there.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, well. Man. What a problem.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: President is accepting a $ 25 million bribe for spyware tech? Crazy.
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  Speaker 1: it's protection. I mean, somebody would have to... It's just,
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  Speaker 1: I don't even... I mean, you could boycott, you know
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Who's buying the oil?
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: The stolen crude oil? American refineries.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: American refineries.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: There was actually a case a year ago. It was
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: a family out of Utah, I believe. And they... They
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: were indicted because they were buying stolen crude oil and
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: smuggling it in through the Port of Brownsville. And they
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: ran a.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: I think Jensen family, something like that. They had a
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: kind of family-run smaller refinery, and they were knowingly purchasing
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: the stolen crude oil because it was a lower price.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: But you'd have to, you'd have to, I mean, you'd
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: just have to totally... cripple their infrastructure, their money-making machine,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: which is boycott on avocados, penalize U.S. companies that are,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: you know, or just make it illegal. which that would
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: probably take 20 years in the US. I mean, you'd
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: have to destroy all of their fentanyl, cocaine, whatever. You'd
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: have to do all of that. You'd have to get
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: rid of the weapons. I don't know exactly how you
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: would take care of the human trafficking problem, but that
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: would narrow it to one scope. And then the other
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: thing you would have to do is handle their government,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: which the U.S. is horrible at. But, you know, it
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: would take some type of intervention, you know, fair election cycles,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: better protection for politicians, I mean, shit like that, for
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: it to even have a chance, which I'm sure none
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: of it is happening, so.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: The last election in Mexico was one of the most
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: violent in history. where Claudia Shattenbaum won with a historic landslide.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: And above all, it would take the people of Mexico
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: to actually stand up. Yeah.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: There's a level of acceptance.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: And if they don't want to, then this whole thing
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: is just.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, I've spoken to a lot of people,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: especially in Sinaloa. They're very tired of it and they
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: want it to end and they'll take the stand. But also,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: you know, we have to appreciate that there's so much
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: deep-rooted fear in standing up against that. It's completely understandable.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: It's like, how do you take on this big beast
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: if even the government can't? It's a collective approach.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: Well, the government's part of the beast.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: Man, rough time down there. Have you heard of El
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: Salvador's infamous SECOT prison? Do you think anything like that
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: would work? So....
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: There's actually a lot of Mexican people I've spoken to
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: who are very anti-cartels that say they would love to
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: see that in Mexico, that that's what it needs, that
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: Mexico needs a Bukele. I think if they were to
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: go after everyone, just like Bukele did, and anyone who
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: has any morsel of connection to criminals or criminal activity
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: goes straight to jail with no end in sight indefinitely, yes,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: it could be effective, but like I said, The difference,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: what Mexico would also have to do that El Salvador
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: kind of got under control is they would have to
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: compensate in the economy, right? Because like we said, it's
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: so much of it is run by the cartels. And
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: that would be the part that disincentivizes them from just
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: being like, we're gonna go and do this widespread cleanup
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: and throw everyone into this mega prison like Secod. But
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: I have heard that before. And I actually know a
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: lot of people who are, like, very anti-cartel in Mexico
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: who say that they would like to see that happen.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: And they're like, it's not best case scenario, but it's
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: gotten to that point.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, that was one of the most violent places
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: on the world.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: And now it's one of the safest?
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's obviously like a lot of human rights
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: concerns that we've heard about. People are in there that
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: they have nothing to do with it and how people
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: are being treated. And I mean, when you're talking about
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: tackling this huge beast of crime and violent crime, that's
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: kind of part of the nature. Wouldn't you agree?
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: It's unfortunate.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: It is, of course.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: Let's move into Ukraine. What's going on? with the cartels
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: in Ukraine?
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: So last summer, I saw that France and Mexico had
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: sent an intelligence report to Ukraine notifying them that there
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: were foreign mercenaries, foreign fighters in Ukraine that were training
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: up on FPV drone tactics only to go to Mexico
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: and work for the cartels as FPV drone operators. And
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: so I was like, okay, this is very interesting. Let's
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: dig into it. Come to find out there was one individual,
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: and he goes by Aguilasiete Eagle 7. He went to
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: Ukraine with false documentation and went to a very well-known
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: drone training facility where he raised some red flags because
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: he was already very well-versed in FPV drone flying. And
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: I guess someone... The details aren't super clear, and even
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: when I was digging for information on this, it was
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: really hard, also keeping in mind it's an active war zone. So,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: you know, they're trying to also protect the integrity of
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: their infrastructure, security, et cetera, even image to a degree. So,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: it seems like some of the trainers caught on that
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: something may have been off and that his intentions were
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: odd and his capabilities. He was flagged, and then... investigation
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: went on where they found out that he had direct
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: links to criminal organizations in Latin America. And that's really
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: all it says. But it seems as though he was
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: directly connected to Mexican cartels and to FARC as well.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: So after that, okay, looking into it, whatever, we go
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: to Ukraine, my cameraman and I, and we go to
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: these drone training facilities where it's quite simple. Flying an
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: FPV drone is kind of like playing a video game
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: and actually young people are pretty good at it because
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: They're well versed in playing video games. The only thing
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: obviously that changes is that once you have like the
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: bomb strapped to it and the weight and the understanding
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: of dropping it and accuracy, whatever. You also do not
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: see the kill happen. The camera shuts off right at launch.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: So it also creates like this disconnect to typical warfare,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: I guess. We go to these training facilities and I
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: begin to like ask everyone, you know, What about these
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: foreign fighters that are coming here? Have you guys seen
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: people that seem like.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: They have... they're ill-intentioned? Or, you know, they're not here
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: to fight the war, even for the money, to be
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: a mercenary, but they're here because they want to learn something.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: And there was mixed reactions. We went to a lot
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: of different facilities, training facilities. Some people said, yeah, you know, you'll...
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: some guy will come here from Colombia and will go
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: on his TikTok and he's... showing him with, like, an
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: AK-47 in, like, the hood in Colombia. And we're like,
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: what is he doing here? A lot of them are just, like,
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: police officers or ex-military. And so they have this legitimate
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: experience and now they're applying it over there, whether it's
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: for the Patriarch or because they, you know, they believe
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: in Ukraine's autonomy, whatever it is. That, at the end
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: of the day, didn't even matter. I was curious to
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: see how and why the cartels are getting people from here.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: So it seems like there's two things happening simultaneously. First,
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: that at one point in time, a few individuals, small amount,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: were sent on purpose with false documentation, some of them
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: even through private military companies, to Ukraine to get trained
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: up on drones, serve there six months, and then go
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: back to Mexico and now they knew how to use
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: drones and they would become the trainers in Mexico. Another
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: thing is happening. A lot of Latin American foreign fighters
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: in Ukraine, once their time serving is coming up to
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: an end, they are being recruited by cartels in Mexico,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: offered money, and will go straight from Ukraine to Mexico
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: now to fight on the front lines with CJNG, particularly
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: in Michoacan, with cartels operating in Michoacan. There's actually- How.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: Are they recruiting?
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: Through social media.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: Through social media. Yeah.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: So a lot of these guys are posting on their
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: TikTok and Instagram of them fighting the war there and
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: being in Ukraine. And a lot of it, obviously, is
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: in Spanish because they're Latin American. And I guess there's some...
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: people within the cartels tasked with seeking these individuals out,
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: offering them money and like this recruitment package to go
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: to Mexico and fight there?
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: Any idea how much they're paying?
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: I have no idea, but I don't think it's a
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: lot because based on the profile of the individuals who
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: are actually ending up there, they're not coming from well-paying
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: jobs in Colombia or well-paying positions in Ukraine. and they're
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: ending up on front lines in Mexico. So, the money
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: can't be good. There's one individual, he's kind of everywhere,
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: or at least, you know, I've seen him a lot.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: He's Colombian, fought in Ukraine, now is on the front
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: lines in Michoacán with the cartel, and he will wear,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: he wears the Colombian flag patch, Ukraine, and now Mexico.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: And he even, like, kind of... In a video that
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: was circulating that I saw of him, he was bragging
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: about it, like, a Colombian, and I was in Ukraine,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: and now I'm with the cartel fuckers, yeah, in Mexico.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: Shit. Any idea how many people they've recruited from the Ukraine?
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: I have no idea. And I'm telling you, it's like,
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: this has been the hardest thing to track down. It
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: is so hard. It appears like either nobody's keeping track
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: or nobody wants to keep track... or it's happening under
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: the radar, which I don't think it is.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: Do you have any idea how much? I'm just curious.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a ton of U.S. GWAT veterans that are.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: I saw so many of them.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: You know, that are over there right now. I think
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: they've already called U.S. special ops guys down there helping out,
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: training them.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of it. There were a lot
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: of Americans there, especially at the training facilities that we
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: went to. Not the drone training.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: Wait, in Ukraine or in Mexico?
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: In Ukraine. Sorry, were you asking me about Ukraine or Mexico?
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: Mexico. Coming from Ukraine to Mexico.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: So American GWAT guys that were serving in Ukraine voluntarily
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: and then went to Mexico?
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: No, just GWAT in general before Ukraine. I'm saying there
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: is a large pool of... of combat experience to draw
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: from today. To train cartels. Yes. To fight with cartels.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: And they have a lot of money.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: And experience.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, cartels have a lot of money.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: To pay for these guys?
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I've... There have been some things that I
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: have seen that it's... It's very clear that there are
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: some individuals from the U.S. who are very highly trained
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: that are offering some training services to cartel fighters.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: You've seen this? Seen it?
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: Not in person, but I've received information, and I have
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: to say this in a way where I don't make
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: this risky for myself.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: It's not, this isn't like a common thing that's happening, okay?
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: It's not like this systemic issue, but it exists.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: You know, that would be interesting for you. I mean,
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: I know you're obviously involved with Ironclad. They've got a
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: lot of people within special operations. It would be interesting
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: if you could source somebody yourself or through them maybe
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: who doesn't have a face on the internet, to go
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: down there with you and assess tactics and see if
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: they think that some of the tactics that these guys
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: are using are coming from U.S. Special Operations, GY veterans.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: I would like to do a story like that. That
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: would be interesting. It would be good. You could get
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: somebody in there with you that doesn't have a footprint
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: on the internet.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: And they can clock exactly what tactics and methods... are
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: linked back here.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, you could probably get to a training facility.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: I know Luis got to a training facility, brought us
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: footage of it. Yeah. You know, and was a very
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: good training. From what he showed me, it was horrible.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: It's very rudimentary.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: But, you know, I'm sure there are different levels, you know,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: that these... I'm sure there's different levels of operations going
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: on within the cartel. At least I would think as
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: sophisticated as they are in business, I'm sure. I'm sure
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: militarily they have their elite all the way down to,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: you know, here's a gun, go shoot. Yeah. But if
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: you could get a guy like that into one of
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: these facilities to just observe, they would be able to
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: tell you where this is coming from.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: The only problem with pursuing a story like that right
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: now is just everything is very hot. It would be
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: very dangerous.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: I wanted to go to some regions in Sinaloa when
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: I was there to kind of see who was running
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: the show, especially if it was like historically El Chapo's region. Okay,
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: what's going on there now? And even some of my
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: sources within the cartel were like, it will be dangerous
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: for you. It's like, shit, okay, if you're saying that,
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: it's a no-go. And a lot of these training facilities
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: have become like kill houses. They're very violent now. especially
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: the ones run by CG & G. There's a lot
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: of fighting to the death, sacrificial stuff.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: It's... Sacrificial stuff?
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: What do you mean? Yeah, like killing... Kill this guy
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: in front of everyone else or beat him up. Oh,
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: that's how you get in. Yeah. So it's extreme violence and,
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: of course, stuff that they... That's the type of stuff
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: that they do not want publicized. It's bad PR for them.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: So when.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: Two years ago, what's called the extermination ranch in Jalisco
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: was found, Rancho Iseguerre, like 60 kilometers outside of Guadalajara.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: That was said to have been a CG & G
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: recruitment camp and training camp, but it was also an
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: extermination camp. A lot of people were taken there to die.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: A lot of people died there. Um, a lot of
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: people were forced to fight to the death or just
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: really heinous, violent behavior. And it seems like that's the M.O. now, uh,
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: for these cartel training and recruitment camps. There's a lot
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: of extreme violence that goes on.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: So....
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: I would draw the line there for me personally.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: Are these all Latin American fighters that they're recruiting from Ukraine?
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: Or are they recruiting from all over the world?
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: It seems like so far, my knowledge, just Latin American.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? Do you think it's price?
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: For the cartels? I think it's price and language.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: Language.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: They can communicate with them and they don't have to
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: pay them a ton.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: Are you saying, you know, I kind of mentioned this earlier,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: like you're talking about DGI shipments and stuff. I would
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: think that's a little bit, I mean, I'm actually surprised
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: to hear that, that they're ordering drones from DGI. Those
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: are expensive, even if they're stealing them. I just, why,
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: are you hearing any of, are you hearing any, 3D
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: printing is what, that's the new jam. It is. It's
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: 3D printing factories, whether you're in Ukraine, Haiti, it's happening
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: all over the place. It's just, they, they, they, take
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: over a building, do whatever, and they make a 3D
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: printing house, and they just are shitting out drones by,
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: you know, every second. Are they doing that down there?
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: So, from what I've seen, it's not common at all
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: to 3D print, like, the drone itself, but they are
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: 3D printing certain components for the drones that are dropping bombs,
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: not the kamikaze drones, but like literally an FPV drone.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: They'll 3D print certain components to attach whatever to it
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: or enhance it to whatever they need. I mean, I
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: could even, I could give you some videos. I'm being
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: sent videos left, right, and center.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: I would love to see some videos. Yeah.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: I have a ton of drone videos in my phone
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: because these guys are really proud of it. So they're
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: sending it around. I get drone videos as soon as
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: the bombs are dropped from the drone, essentially. And you
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: can see where they've altered the drone. And the expensive
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: part of buying those, it's not a problem for them.
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: They're using these to target mostly law enforcement and adversarial groups.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: But particularly for law enforcement because it keeps law enforcement
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: away from their hub of operation. So yeah, I have
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: seen more drone videos than I'd like of people getting exploded,
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: locations getting exploded, convoys of law enforcement getting exploded.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: Is it one drone? So here's what I'm getting at next.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: You know, right? Like those are the, you know, And
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: that's actually the old days now. You know, one improvised
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: explosive on a kamikaze drone. Do you hear anything about
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: cartels investing into large language models, AI-type software, so that
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: they can run entire drone swarms where it's not an
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: individual operator per drone? They actually have some type of
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: a large language model that they can get 50, 100, 1,000 drones.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, if they did that, if they were able
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: to accomplish that, they wouldn't need all the personnel.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: I have not seen that yet in Mexico. It could exist.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it. They could be keeping it low
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: key or it's just not happening. I think it could
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: certainly get to that point. But so far, I don't
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: think that that's necessary. I think with the status quo,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: with what they have of these large FPV drones, that's
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: good enough for them. But certainly you're right, for the manpower,
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: it would be great. But I think that the groups
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: that need the manpower the most, like we're talking about
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: fractured cartels, for example, where they're like needing men, they
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: don't actually have the capital to invest in something like
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: that that could make up for their manpower, because they're
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: struggling to keep up with how it is already.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: Gotcha. Man, we've covered a lot of ground there. Am
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: I missing anything with the Ukraine connection?
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: No, that was mostly it.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So we're wrapping up the interview, but what do
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: you think the future... And this could go for another hour.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: What do you think the future holds for cartels? What
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: do you think they're gonna move into? What do you
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: see coming in the future? If you had a crystal
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: ball in front of you, what would it be telling you?
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, there's a couple major things that I think are
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: going to happen. First, I think that... the.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: U.S.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: Government is really gonna do anything in their power to
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: try to turn everyone against each other. Even if that
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: means somehow starting lies that move through the ranks of cartels,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: so that they continue to take each other out, turn
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: against each other, splinter, fracture, whatever you want to call it.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: I think that... in spite of CG & G' s leader
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: being gone, we are only going to continue to see
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: the rise of power and control that CG & G
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: has over the entire cartel landscape. over all of Mexico
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 2: and the global drug trade. They have so much money, power,
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: and vision.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: And....
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: They are probably, like, the foreign terrorist organization. And I
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: don't see that ending. I just think it's going to grow.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: And there are some actually very high IQ individuals, particularly
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: in that Valencia family, that are going to ensure that
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: operations continue to run, and if not, expand. And finally,
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: I think that the next Mexican president will... I think
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: it's probably gonna be Omar Garcia Harfuch, the Secretary of Security.
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: And I think that he's going to... work very closely
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: with the Americans. It's gonna kind of be like we're
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: flipping a page. It's gonna be different. than with Claudia
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: Chienbaum who kind of pushes back. But I don't entirely
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: see that as a positive thing because I think that
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: also Harfuch has sometimes his own agenda, nefarious or not,
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: that he will continue to execute at the same time
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: as handing over everyone to the US or allowing the
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: US to operate in Mexico.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: Do you... Yeah. I mean, obviously the U.S. has great
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: interest in getting involved at some point. Mm-hmm. To the
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: point that the hand will be forced at some point.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: It already is, I think.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: Are there any other nations that are getting to the
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: point that they're gonna have to get involved? Bigger nations.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about... Central America, you know? What about Canada?
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: What about any European countries?
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: I think Canada should.
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: we have a major fentanyl problem over there. You know,
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: it matches that of the US and a border problem.
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: I talked about this last time, that a lot of
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: the fentanyl precursors are coming in through and none of
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: it's being checked. But so far, it seems like that
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: incentive is not there. That manpower still isn't there. There's
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: this lack of communication between our law enforcement agencies and
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: bodies from federal to provincial levels. And I actually, a
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: source of mine over there told me that they have been,
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: there have been some certain major drug busts coming through
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: the ports. Kilos of meth. And they are not releasing
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: that to the public. They're not even putting out press
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: releases because they don't want that added pressure. So that's
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: already bad, you know, the lack of transparency downplaying the problem.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: So I don't think Canada would get into it, not
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: to mention Canada is literally extraditing people involved in drug
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: cases that happened on their land, but because it's, you know,
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: DEA helped investigate, these people are going to the U.S.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: They're being extradited to the U.S. for court hearings. So
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: it's already setting this precedent that if they can take
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: the most hands-off approach of it, that they will, which
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: it is what it is.
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 2: In Europe, Spain has a major problem with cartel infiltration
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: and massive amounts of drugs coming in through Spain and
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: then also going being distributed throughout other European countries directly
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: from Spain and even certain individuals who are directly linked
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: to criminal organizations, even in Mexico, cartels that seek refuge
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: in Spain. So I think, yeah, there's quite a few
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 2: countries who, you know, perhaps, They don't see it as
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: a problem or they don't want to. But when you're
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: doing this work and you're so dialed in and digging
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 2: into all of it, you see how it's all connected
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: and how it can't just be one country taking the
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 2: initiative for any of these operations to be dismantled in
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 2: any way because it's so widespread and transnational. It has
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: to be this collective effort.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Is there anything I haven't asked you yet that
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: I should be asking?
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know. We covered a lot.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: We covered a lot. We did. We covered a lot.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: A lot of different scenarios. A lot of potential ways
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: to intervene. It was an awesome interview.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. It's really nice to speak to you.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming back. We'll have you again. Where are
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: you heading next? Anywhere in particular?
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to say though. I'm going on assignment,
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: but I never say it in advance.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: You going to get into anything non-cartel?
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: That'll come, for sure. We talked about this. Yeah, it
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: will come. But right now, I'm just doing the stories
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: that matter there, the cartel stuff, boots on the ground.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: Right on. Well, I'll be excited to have you back
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: in another year or so. Great.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: I'm here.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: Katarina, be safe.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:00:13
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• 2:00:20
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