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What’s a mobility wallet and how does it fit with equity? · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:08
  Jeff Cranson: Hi, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast.
• 0:10
  Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranson.
• 0:12
  Jeff Cranson: Today I'm going to be talking about a topic that's near and dear to the hearts of anybody interested in transportation and mobility and who cares at all about equity in that area.
• 0:29
  Jeff Cranson: It involves a great program that was launched just this week to help provide rides and better transportation access to military veterans, and it fits into a broader plan to find ways to connect people who might be in various vulnerable populations with transportation.
• 0:50
  Jeff Cranson: The announcement this week was made by the company Feonix Mobility Rising, in partnership with various agencies that advocate in this area, including Disability Advocates of Kent County.
• 1:01
  Jeff Cranson: The executive director there, Dave Bulkowski, will join the podcast for the second portion.
• 1:07
  Jeff Cranson: First, I'll be speaking with Valerie Lefler, who is the founder and executive director of Feonix, and she's very passionate about this issue.
• 1:14
  Jeff Cranson: She's done a great job in a short amount of time already to move the needle in terms of helping people find transportation, especially people that otherwise are challenged to do that.
• 1:24
  Jeff Cranson: So again, today I'm with Valerie Lefler, who is the founder and executive director of Feonix Mobility Rising.
• 1:34
  Jeff Cranson: Valerie, thanks for taking time to be here.
• 1:38
  Valerie Lefler: Thank you so much for having me, Jeff.
• 1:39
  Valerie Lefler: It's a pleasure.
• 1:40
  Jeff Cranson: So let's start with the most basic question, because it's obviously part of the metaphor for phoenix and rising.
• 1:48
  Jeff Cranson: Why is it spelled with an F?
• 1:53
  Valerie Lefler: So Feonix is spelled with an F, for one of the main reasons is for SEO optimization and also usability of finding things in the app store.
• 2:03
  Valerie Lefler: In a previous life I had a tech startup that had a very generic name and when people would search it in the app store and things like that, it was on like version four or page four.
• 2:15
  Valerie Lefler: So this just enables us to you know, when people look for Phoenix, they can find it quickly in Google and also the app store.
• 2:26
  Jeff Cranson: That makes a lot of sense.
• 2:27
  Jeff Cranson: So here's what I really like the basic distillation of your background and I guess you know inspiration says that you are on a lifelong mission to make mobility equity a reality around the world.
• 2:41
  Jeff Cranson: Wife, mother, half decent baker we can talk about baking another time, but tell me what drives you this passion?
• 2:49
  Jeff Cranson: I mean part of it obviously is faith and spiritual, but beyond that, you know what makes you so focused on this.
• 2:59
  Valerie Lefler: Yeah, I think you know, as you said.
• 3:01
  Valerie Lefler: You know my faith is a big part of this journey and definitely just kind of have been fortunate to learn.
• 3:07
  Valerie Lefler: You know why I'm here on Earth, if you will.
• 3:09
  Valerie Lefler: So I found my calling at a young age, but it's also interconnected with literally every type of resource that we need to access as humans.
• 3:21
  Valerie Lefler: You know it doesn't matter how good the doctors are if you can't get there.
• 3:25
  Valerie Lefler: It doesn't matter how good your teachers are at their job if the student can't get to school.
• 3:31
  Valerie Lefler: You know all of these things, how we live, how we thrive are impacted by transportation and growing up on a dairy farm, my parents built in my DNA, from the time that I could walk, that your purpose on Earth is about giving back.
• 3:46
  Valerie Lefler: And so for me to find my passion in transportation, knowing that every day I wake up and the work that I do supports hundreds and thousands of individuals who are seeking to live their best life, and whether that be work or employment or health care, it's just a passion, and I'm just really fortunate to know that that's what I'm supposed to do with my life.
• 4:12
  Jeff Cranson: So there's a lot of components to this and you know different kinds of people.
• 4:18
  Jeff Cranson: I guess the one thing that they all share in common is challenges in finding reliable transportation and just the sense of freedom, independence that we all take for granted, that I can get someplace when I need to.
• 4:32
  Jeff Cranson: This week's component was focused on veterans, but you obviously are very interested in poor people or the people that don't have the means to afford their own transportation and maybe don't have good access to transit, which is a problem in a lot of Michigan cities and rural areas especially.
• 4:53
  Jeff Cranson: And then there's the disability component, which overlaps some especially with veterans.
• 5:00
  Jeff Cranson: But could you talk about how your mission is about all those things?
• 5:07
  Valerie Lefler: Absolutely so, Feonix's mission is mobility solutions for the health and well-being of every person in every community and one of the things that we really focus on is filling in the gaps.
• 5:20
  Valerie Lefler: So we love to partner with public transit agencies.
• 5:23
  Valerie Lefler: We currently public partner with over 18.
• 5:26
  Valerie Lefler: We love to partner with small businesses and taxis and, you know, corporate businesses in providing and filling those rides.
• 5:34
  Valerie Lefler: We bring volunteers into that equation to even fill even more gaps.
• 5:39
  Valerie Lefler: I think one of the analogies that I often use is Feonix seeks to be the flexi-seal of the mobility ecosystem, you know, filling in the gaps in the crevices and really supporting those who need that additional assistance when community partners may not have the bandwidth or the expertise to provide that level of support.
• 6:02
  Valerie Lefler: So, for example, let's take a veteran who was recently diagnosed with cancer and his wife has macular degeneration and is unable to drive, and his children live in Florida and New York and he would never bother them because he wants them to be successful.
• 6:21
  Valerie Lefler: So trying to get his kids involved is not gonna happen.
• 6:24
  Valerie Lefler: He does want to be a burden to his family but he has 58 appointments of chemotherapy and radiation to attend and that cancer nurse or then social worker at the cancer treatment facility, she can have some resources to support him.
• 6:41
  Valerie Lefler: But helping that veteran get connected with you know, the different transportation providers.
• 6:47
  Valerie Lefler: So, for example, maybe he can use the bus for the first couple weeks, but then, as that starts to set in, he begins to feel weaker, his immune system gets reduced, you know.
• 6:57
  Valerie Lefler: Then maybe you need assistance, transportation, or maybe you just need your own ride.
• 7:01
  Valerie Lefler: So maybe an Uber or a taxi is a good option, or ride your way, and then, you know, you get to a certain point where you might need a wheelchair and then you need accessible transportation.
• 7:12
  Valerie Lefler: And so for us, being able to support our nation's heroes, our older adults, refugees, re-entering citizens, families in poverty who are trying to be well, who are trying to seek a job, like that's another skill set, and I think our work as part of the, the technology, is also that human element.
• 7:33
  Valerie Lefler: So part of the work that we're doing also involves this new role called a mobility navigator, which is kind of like a cross between a travel agent and a community health worker where they take that person's journey, whether that be I need to get to work five days a week, or I need to get to chemo, or I need to get to.
• 7:51
  Valerie Lefler: You know my child needs to see a specialist to get allergy shots and the nearest specialist that offers those resources is three counties away.
• 8:01
  Valerie Lefler: Those community partners know there's a need but there's no bandwidth in their existing 17 jobs that they have to specialize in that, and so we take that on.
• 8:13
  Valerie Lefler: So we're really about, you know it's not.
• 8:15
  Valerie Lefler: We're not necessarily trying to solve transportation challenges for business travelers or for folks who are in the airport or commuting back and forth just day to day, for you know the good of humanity.
• 8:29
  Valerie Lefler: But folks who are really like I have other challenges that I need support with or I just don't know even where to begin, and so we can provide that additional support.
• 8:40
  Jeff Cranson: So not that you're in this to, you know, make your first million, but how does Feonix, you know, thrive?
• 8:49
  Jeff Cranson: What's the, what's the ultimate revenue stream?
• 8:52
  Valerie Lefler: Yeah, so right now we are currently receive a lot of opportunities for funding through writing grants, much like the Michigan Mobility Wallet Challenge, but also we partner with major organizations that are advocates for mobility equity.
• 9:07
  Valerie Lefler: We're just getting ready to start looking at and going after corporate sponsorships and things like that as we expand.
• 9:15
  Valerie Lefler: But you know, we just really have been successful at, you know, identifying where there's a need and then how we can put together a plan to address it and so just really fortunate to you know, be good at grant writing and also have a really strong mission, and now we have the data and the model in a way that we can now scale, and that's where corporate partnerships or individual donors come in.
• 9:43
  Jeff Cranson: So yeah, talk a little bit about going from a nascent tech startup, of which obviously there are many, to where you are now in terms of growth and the team and all those things.
• 9:58
  Valerie Lefler: Yeah, so we started about five years ago.
• 10:00
  Valerie Lefler: Prior to that, I'd been running a tech startup that was known as a rural Uber.
• 10:05
  Valerie Lefler: We were growing and we just had this exponential impact and trajectory and then the margins did not work out and many small businesses or even tech startups in that space you've got to be able to keep your margins, especially when you're venture funded, and so many times when I was pitching for venture capital, folks would say this is a nonprofit, I think you need to reorganize and go after grants and things like that.
• 10:38
  Valerie Lefler: And so when the tech startup ended just really had such passion for what we were doing in the mission, I knew that I wanted to keep going, even though I'd lost pretty much everything.
• 10:56
  Valerie Lefler: We were homeless, I lost my job.
• 10:57
  Valerie Lefler: It was a very humbling experience and that gave me a whole other level of empathy and understanding, for I'm not in this to make money, but I'm in this to make a difference.
• 11:12
  Valerie Lefler: And so, anyway, so that whole process of going from a tech startup where it's all about the margins and it's all about earning value for your shareholders, to running a nonprofit, leading a team of 30, working across the United States with amazing partners doing really hard work, but very rewarding work, and being able to support so many individuals access to health care and life sustaining support, as well as helping individuals get to a point where they can buy their first car or they can buy a house for the first time for their family, and so just to spend an honor to be on this journey.
• 11:54
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I think that's a really good point, that all those other things that you're talking about as you go up Maslow's pyramid.
• 12:00
  Jeff Cranson: It really starts with having basic mobility and being able to get places right.
• 12:07
  Valerie Lefler: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:09
  Jeff Cranson: So talk specifically about this week's launch in Michigan and the focus on veterans, and I guess what the vibe was as this thing rolled out across the state.
• 12:23
  Valerie Lefler: Yeah, absolutely so.
• 12:26
  Valerie Lefler: Monday we were really excited to launch the Michigan Mobility Wallet Challenge Grant in Grand Rapids and Kent County and then in Jackson and Jackson County, but that program also includes Hillsdale, Lenawee County and Wayne County and we had the opportunity to do the launch there in Detroit at New Lab and it was just overwhelming, to say the least, because to see all of those community partners come forward to support a cause that I'm so passionate about.
• 13:00
  Valerie Lefler: I have a number of family who are actively serving and then also in my family have a number of veterans who lost their lives or came home never the same.
• 13:13
  Valerie Lefler: And I think to show because so many times the veteran transportation challenges are so complex in how their healthcare ecosystem is structured, we thought if we can use this opportunity to show how technology can make that possible and easier in not only urban communities but also rural, we will truly have solved a larger systemic challenge that also impacts other transportation disparity needs.
• 13:51
  Valerie Lefler: It's like starting with your hardest use case and then things get easier from there, and it's a lot easier to start there than to try and say, well, let's solve it here and then we'll retrofit it for the veteran use case.
• 14:03
  Valerie Lefler: So to be able to give back and meet those community partners and celebrate was just an honor.
• 14:14
  Valerie Lefler: And then we had our very first writer.
• 14:17
  Valerie Lefler: It was Danny Gilliam.
• 14:18
  Valerie Lefler: He's a Purple Heart recipient.
• 14:20
  Valerie Lefler: And then in Detroit we had the Tuskegee Airmen Museum vice chair and another veteran from the Marines and it was just such an honor to hear the stories of the veterans and the community partners and the excitement around what's possible and just those words of wisdom and support as we get started are invaluable.
• 14:45
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I think it's.
• 14:48
  Jeff Cranson: You can't say enough about this.
• 14:50
  Jeff Cranson: We, in my former life as a journalist, I supervised a project several years ago where some University of Michigan students actually some journalism students or some students that were working on a major project looked at the city of Holland, Michigan, for all kinds of accessibility standards and just kind of spent a week looking at various things, everything from public buildings to restaurants to sidewalks and the challenges for somebody that uses a wheelchair or otherwise has a disability to get around, and we call that one access for all, and it's still a driving concept for much of what we all do.
• 15:36
  Valerie Lefler: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:37
  Valerie Lefler: I mean it's like, if you wanna get me excited, talk about sidewalk infrastructure, Jeff.
• 15:41
  Valerie Lefler: Like we have buses all over the place but there aren't sidewalks to get to them or there's not lighting.
• 15:48
  Valerie Lefler: So if my 12 year old daughter needs to ride the bus, am I gonna ask her to wait in the dark for 30 minutes for the bus to come?
• 15:56
  Valerie Lefler: And especially if I live in a community that maybe it's a little dangerous or there's crime, and so we think about the whole mobility ecosystem.
• 16:06
  Valerie Lefler: But we have to look at the bigger picture.
• 16:08
  Valerie Lefler: We have to look at the weather, we have to look at we were talking with one of the nurses at Henry Ford Health System and she said, yes, I can give somebody a bus pass, but that doesn't mean that their children have shoes to walk through the snow and they have warm coats to wait in the weather at three degrees for 25 minutes with the wind blowing, and so it's like we have to, especially when we're supporting individuals who are going through, who are experiencing poverty or who have vulnerable immune systems.
• 16:42
  Valerie Lefler: You cannot discount the impact of the whole person's needs in transportation.
• 16:48
  Valerie Lefler: So another example is there was a research report that was done about veterans transportation to the VA back in 2018, I think they looked at over, I think, four million veterans, so they had this really just all encompassing data set and they did some interviews and, like one of the veterans talked about how, because of the PTSD that he was experiencing, he could not ride the bus because the shaking of the bus over the speed bumps and the potholes and having people come in behind him, like he was so nervous he was physically ill by the time he got to his appointment and he ultimately stopped going to his therapy because it was so traumatic to get there.
• 17:32
  Valerie Lefler: And so it seems ridiculous when you're like let's just give him a bus pass we live on the bus line but when that person is going through that experience and needs that additional support, if we can spend $30 million to equip him with gear and ammunition and all the things that they need in warfare, why can we not give these men and women an Uber or a taxi or a service when they're seeking treatment, trying to recover from those experiences?
• 18:02
  Jeff Cranson: Well, when you talked about sidewalks and all the various existing challenges, and now we've got yet new modes scooters everywhere in Grand Rapids, where I live, and the, I guess, proliferation of e-bikes.
• 18:22
  Jeff Cranson: And while Grand Rapids has been pretty progressive, like some other cities, in terms of bike lanes and buffered lanes, protected lanes, there's still a long ways to go, and so all these people are trying to share the sidewalk and imagine navigating that in a wheelchair.
• 18:39
  Valerie Lefler: Oh, absolutely in a wheelchair, or if you are using a cane for support for vision, or even just are using a walker or crutches.
• 18:51
  Valerie Lefler: I mean, I spent 23 weeks on crutches at one point in my life.
• 18:53
  Valerie Lefler: I have a new appreciation for that.
• 18:56
  Valerie Lefler: But yeah, it really involves a balance and good policy, because I think micro mobility does provide value and extreme value in many cases in our mobility ecosystem, but the amount of money that we need to spend on user education and around the safety and the policy surrounding that is dramatically underfunded, and so it really involves and I think that goes for a lot of mobility projects where we spend so much resources on the tech and the devices and all the pieces of the literal mode, but then all the wrap around education and policy, around parking and equity and making sure that we're being mindful of just all of the things that go along with that sometimes get shortchanged or there's hardly any money in the budget.
• 19:50
  Valerie Lefler: I remember sitting at a shared use mobility summit and they spent like $13 million on the service and when I asked them what their marketing budget was, it was like 20 grand and it was like and then the pilot failed and you were like well, the user education should have been about 4 million, and so I think a lot of times we get so excited in the transportation industry about the stuff.
• 20:15
  Valerie Lefler: We forget about the awareness and the people and how much money and time and energy should be invested in that alongside it.
• 20:26
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I've heard from my friends at disability advocates of Kent County that they're still getting a lot of interest as the word gets out.
• 20:34
  Jeff Cranson: Thankfully, Monday's announcements generated some decent media coverage, but there's still gonna be a lot of people who would benefit from this that just don't know about it.
• 20:45
  Valerie Lefler: Absolutely.
• 20:46
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, well, thank you so much, Valerie, for doing this, and I think we'll talk again at some point down the road to see how these things are going and how, as you expand and some other related services, you know how that goes, but I certainly appreciate your passion and your commitment to helping the most vulnerable among us.
• 21:07
  Jeff Cranson: So, thank you.
• 21:10
  Valerie Lefler: It's an honor.
• 21:10
  Valerie Lefler: Thank you so much, Jeff.
• 21:12
  Jeff Cranson: I'll be back after a brief message to speak with Dave Bulkowski of Disability Advocates of Kent County.
• 21:20
  MDOT Message: If you need to get out and stretch your legs, don't forget about the annual Mackinac Bridge Walk.
• 21:24
  MDOT Message: Make your plans to attend the Walk on Labor Day and take in some of the best views in the State of Michigan on the Mighty Mac.
• 21:30
  MDOT Message: For more information, go to MackinacBridge.
• 21:32
  MDOT Message: org.
• 21:37
  Jeff Cranson: So, as I mentioned earlier in the second segment, I'm going to be speaking with Dave Bulkowski, who is a long time advocate for these causes and for equity and access for all.
• 21:48
  Jeff Cranson: He's the executive director of Disability Advocates of Kent County (DAKC) and a very close family friend.
• 21:56
  Jeff Cranson: Is it okay if I share that, Dave?
• 21:59
  Dave Bulkowski: Hey, that's fine.
• 22:00
  Dave Bulkowski: Sure thing.
• 22:05
  Jeff Cranson: Talk about what this week's launch means and how DAKC is involved, and then maybe more broadly about your I don't want to make you sound old, but your long time work in this area.
• 22:18
  Dave Bulkowski: Yeah, well, because I'm old, just if I lose my track, please get me back on the multiple questions.
• 22:28
  Dave Bulkowski: But the most important thing that this week shows is partnerships and time work.
• 22:38
  Dave Bulkowski: As I've been reflecting on this opportunity and what I would share, that's what I kept going back to.
• 22:51
  Dave Bulkowski: Getting to know John Peracchio through the Michigan Council on Future Mobility was just awesome, and then his connectivity to Valerie at Feonix and just hanging out with people who want to do creative stuff to help other people.
• 23:14
  Jeff Cranson: You should have mentioned there that John is a board member of Feonix.
• 23:18
  Dave Bulkowski: Absolutely.
• 23:19
  Dave Bulkowski: Yeah, I mean, he got recruited to the board as he was helping them make connections throughout Michigan.
• 23:25
  Dave Bulkowski: And again, John, is just a fantastic champion for doing something different because again, the same old, same old isn't working as well as it could be and it probably never really worked well in.
• 23:41
  Dave Bulkowski: You know what can get labeled the paratransit environment, meaning the service that complements mainline service.
• 23:51
  Dave Bulkowski: If you can't use the regular bus, mainline bus, paratransit comes alongside and then in both of those arenas, you know how technology can help us move forward.
• 24:06
  Dave Bulkowski: Yeah, so anyways, it's just a really cool opportunity this week to launch this new service with Feonix.
• 24:15
  Dave Bulkowski: They have a technology partner, that that, yeah, there's, and we got to keep experimenting and that's.
• 24:24
  Dave Bulkowski: You know, I'm still going to give shout out to MDOT for the creativity and the courage because you know, if you pave a road and two years later something happened and you got to repay the stretch, you might, you might get phone calls, Jeff, right.
• 24:45
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, that does happen.
• 24:46
  Jeff Cranson: More likely they would post something on Facebook.
• 24:50
  Dave Bulkowski: There you go.
• 24:51
  Jeff Cranson: Let's go to Facebook to your, but to your point, as you well know, having long served in various capacities in government and the nonprofit world, everybody says government should operate like a business and so if you do that and you take chances and try something and fail, then you're widely criticized for being incompetent.
• 25:14
  Jeff Cranson: But in private industry that's all part of learning is taking a chance and making a mistake right.
• 25:21
  Dave Bulkowski: Right there's a guy that made a couple bucks in Silicon Valley who was from Muskegon, Michigan, and he said the biggest difference between Muskegon and West Michigan and Silicon Valley is here, we're so risk averse.
• 25:36
  Dave Bulkowski: If you have a failure, you're like shunned.
• 25:40
  Dave Bulkowski: But in Silicon Valley if you don't have five or six failures you're shunned because you're not trying hard enough, and so you know, and yeah, and, and so with them.
• 25:52
  Dave Bulkowski: I mean, you know I do have to give credit to Governor Snyder and director, former director Steudle, you know who cooked up this Michigan Mobility Challenge, which was, you know, golly cheepers.
• 26:05
  Dave Bulkowski: I hate to guess how many years ago it was, but not only did we have a eight million dollar fund to do the experimenting and the learning which Feonix Mobility had a project or two funded through that initial set of dollars.
• 26:22
  Dave Bulkowski: The initial meeting was three sets of people invited.
• 26:27
  Dave Bulkowski: It was people with disabilities, seniors and veterans, those who use the specialized services or paratransit, and it was the tech companies and it was the providers and, again, just the wisdom to bring the three user groups together.
• 26:45
  Dave Bulkowski: And a person that you've gotten to know, Jeff, and a good friend of mine, Dr.
• 26:50
  Dave Bulkowski: Kimberly at that time was Dr.
• 26:52
  Dave Bulkowski: Kimberly Kennedy and now Dr.
• 26:54
  Dave Bulkowski: Kimberly Barrington as a Veteran, soon to be senior person who uses a wheelchair.
• 27:02
  Dave Bulkowski: You know she was just and a person not afraid to share her opinion.
• 27:07
  Dave Bulkowski: You know people loved her being in that room because she was telling folks what worked and what didn't work and so being involved.
• 27:17
  Dave Bulkowski: And then and then she was on stage with Governor Whitmer when she launched her part of the mobility challenge.
• 27:25
  Dave Bulkowski: So again, for you know, kudos to Governor Whitmer to continue to invest in this and, knowing that things can be better.
• 27:34
  Dave Bulkowski: And I'm guessing the lieutenant governor, because he's a tech guy he's got his fingers in this too.
• 27:41
  Jeff Cranson: Oh, yeah, he would definitely be all about this.
• 27:45
  Jeff Cranson: I mean just the equity imperative alone, but it's also about, you know, looking to the future.
• 27:54
  Jeff Cranson: And even while the governor is very focused now on population and stemming the Outflow of Michigan residents and the brain drain, we realize that our population is getting older and it's why I've never understood why it's so difficult to get a better supportive structure in the legislature for transit, when so many Michigan's rural counties have aging populations and people that need, you know, mobility options.
• 28:25
  Jeff Cranson: Why is that so difficult?
• 28:28
  Dave Bulkowski: It's the downside of this American rugged individualism and maybe it will shift.
• 28:37
  Dave Bulkowski: But you know, and this is painting with you know, definitely a big brush.
• 28:42
  Dave Bulkowski: But folks of you know the great generation, that generation to ask for help was, that, was just us, that was you again should be ashamed if you have to ask for help.
• 28:54
  Dave Bulkowski: The baby boomers have a slightly different perspective.
• 28:57
  Dave Bulkowski: So the baby boomers are starting to say, hey, where's my transit services?
• 29:01
  Dave Bulkowski: So I think in the coming years, as as the baby boomers really get into retirement age, I think some of that political will will be created.
• 29:12
  Dave Bulkowski: That's my hunch.
• 29:13
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I think you might be right.
• 29:14
  Jeff Cranson: That's a good theory.
• 29:15
  Jeff Cranson: So we only have a couple minutes left, because I know you have to move on.
• 29:20
  Jeff Cranson: But could you just talk about this week's announcement specifically and how it fits with your mission?
• 29:27
  Dave Bulkowski: Well, I mean, first and foremost, the second half of our mission is to create an inclusive community for everyone, and transportation is it was probably a requirement in 99% of the things we do.
• 29:41
  Dave Bulkowski: Most of us don't live in walkable, rollable neighborhoods, so you got to get in a vehicle to go somewhere.
• 29:51
  Dave Bulkowski: And so, if you don't own your own vehicle, what do you do?
• 29:56
  Dave Bulkowski: And you know you say why not ask your family and friends.
• 30:01
  Dave Bulkowski: That gets old fast, and so to have the freedom that this kind of collaborative service is going to provide is huge.
• 30:11
  Dave Bulkowski: And then the cool part about this is it you know Feonix and their tech partner.
• 30:19
  Dave Bulkowski: It's bringing all options together in one place.
• 30:23
  Dave Bulkowski: So you know, if you're a veteran that wants to jump on one of those scooters or electric bikes and Grand Rapids, you're gonna be able to pay for it through the mobility wallet.
• 30:34
  Dave Bulkowski: You know, if you need to go further for a doctor's appointment, or you know you want to go to LMC ballpark for a game, you know you're gonna be able to find an option.
• 30:45
  Dave Bulkowski: So it's really collaborating on that, and they're still gonna have a human alongside if you need that navigation support.
• 30:57
  Dave Bulkowski: So, to me it's an awesome experiment and we'll do our best to what's the word.
• 31:04
  Dave Bulkowski: I'm looking forward to make sure people's expectations aren't over the top, and you know the patience of being an experimenter.
• 31:16
  Jeff Cranson: What was the buzz Monday at your component of the announcement?
• 31:19
  Jeff Cranson: This actually was done in three different sites across the state, but the first one was at your offices in Kent County and what was the general feeling?
• 31:28
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, were there people asking skeptical questions or did you sense a lot of optimism?
• 31:35
  Dave Bulkowski: Oh, it was optimistic questions and I have gotten a bunch since that.
• 31:40
  Dave Bulkowski: How do I get connected?
• 31:42
  Dave Bulkowski: How do I get connected?
• 31:43
  Dave Bulkowski: How do I get connected?
• 31:44
  Dave Bulkowski: When will I be able to be connected?
• 31:46
  Dave Bulkowski: I'm not a veteran, you know when because there are phases to this rollout, starting with veterans, people of low income next and so on.
• 31:56
  Dave Bulkowski: So again i t's an excited buzz and curiosity.
• 32:00
  Dave Bulkowski: Of course, the skeptics will come and as people use it I mean folks with disabilities that I hang out with they know how to ask questions because they don't want the experiment to land them, you know, six miles from home with no way back, and so they know how to make sure things are covered.
• 32:21
  Dave Bulkowski: So, but, all in all, this week is just filled with a new, cool thing that will be effective.
• 32:29
  Jeff Cranson: That's great.
• 32:29
  Jeff Cranson: Well thanks, Dave, and good luck with this as it expands and moves forward.
• 32:35
  Jeff Cranson: I appreciate you taking time to share your views.
• 32:39
  Dave Bulkowski: It's never a problem, Jeff, and we'll talk soon.
• 32:44
  Jeff Cranson: Like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 32:47
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 32:51
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talents of people who helped make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast of various platforms, and Jacke Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.