Latest / Reimagine Running / Reimagine Running | Wasatch 100 Recap with Nate Allred S1E33

Transcript

Reimagine Running | Wasatch 100 Recap with Nate Allred S1E33 · Reimagine Running

• nate: I could feel some major blisters on the bottom of my feet, which is weird because in bear I didn't get any blisters, but I could feel my toes were hurting, my my ankle was kind of starting to give out, my knees were both killing me. I'm like, I just wanna be done. this is ridiculous. I could tell my body was just not feeling very good. The heat was getting to me, my lungs weren't working that good. So, anyways, it's just grind through it, push to the end. and I just remember going around those last bends and looking down at the people doing windsurfing and I'm like, what is wrong with us? What like why are we doing this? Those guys are having fun. They're cooling off in the water. They're jumping on waves. What is wrong with us? Why are we up here right in the sun, We got bruises all over us. We got blisters. Like something must have happened to us that made us like this. But then then as you get to the finish, you start to get a little bit emotional and you start just feeling gratitude. I'm like sitting there with my boys and all of a sudden I just start losing it, start crying. and was just grateful that I had the experience and was able to finish. Coach Ryan Head: Running is a strange thing. Some people find it on the sidewalk at sunrise. Some find it deep in the mountains chasing daylight. And some of us find it when life feels heavy and running is the only thing that makes sense. For some, starts with the 5k. For others, it's a marathon. And for a few, it's a hundred miles that changes everything. But somewhere between the first step and the finish line, something happens. Running stops being about pace or distance or medals. It becomes about purpose. I'm your host Ryan Head. And this is Reimagine Running, the podcast dedicated to talking about why we run. Each episode, we'll sit down with runners from every background, trail runners, road runners, beginners, veterans, and talk about their journey. Not just where they've run, but why they run. Because for many of us, running didn't just change our fitness. It helped us find clarity, healing, discipline, hope, and sometimes even ourselves. Whether your why was born on a short loop around the block or somewhere deep inside a long, lonely mile. This podcast is for you. Welcome to re-imagine running. Ryan Head: Alright, everybody, welcome back to Reimagine Running, the podcast talking about why we run. I'm excited. We have a returning guest today from earlier the season. Actually, he's my second guest that I had on the podcast. Nate Allred is here again with me for one big reason. What's happened this year Been really, really cool because I've been a part of his journey this whole year as he's been preparing for. Drum roll please, the Los Angeles 100. It was really exciting because not only did I get to run it, as I recapped in the most recent, episode, but now Nate gets to recap his experience out there. It was really fun because I got to spend many miles with him. I don't know if it was intentional or unintentional, but ultimately it came down to me and him be able to spend more than half the race together, which was really, really fun, I think, for both of us. we've been able to spend lots of miles on Wasatch together at this point. So anyways, I don't wanna spoil it. I don't wanna give any more away. So like I said last week, let's go a hundred miles on the Wasatch. Nate, welcome back to the podcast, man. nate: Awesome. Thanks, Ryan. Yeah. Excited to be here. This is this was fun. it seems like it's been so long since I talked last, but I was looking back, it's only been since March. So so yeah, a lot has changed since then. Ryan Head: Yeah, it's awesome. Well, it's been really cool to to see your journey this year. And, you know, I as we talked about, I know you were there at Scout Mountain with me this year And I know you weren't necessarily on the recap episode, but you played a huge part on getting that last twenty five, twenty six miles with me. and so it's been fun to share so many adventures with you this year and and You know, you guys can go back and listen to episode three, kind of get a good recap of who Nate is, you know, get to know who he, you know, where his background is, what he's been doing running wise. Mostly my big focus with him today is just like what I did last week, every person who runs Washatch has a unique experience. I just want to hear Nate's story because I think this is one that's really interesting. If you guys remember, Nate though he's a really good runner and has done very, very good things. Very close to Boston qualifying multiple times, finished the Bear 100 last year in 2025. Nate does have some stuff with his legs, some with some bone stuff that he deals with. And so because of that, he has to be very careful about his approach with running and keeping himself injury free, which sometimes can be a task all by itself. But just seeing what he's done, I don't know. I I I just want him to be able to tell the story because it's really exciting. It's really fun to hear what he did this year. to go and just destroy another race. So, anyways, Nate, why do you talk to me about what happened, you know, in 2025 as you, you know, you finish the bearer 100 and you're thinking, what do I do in 2026 or what do I want to accomplish? Yeah, where did your head go with all that, man? nate: Yeah, I mean I I think the a hundred mile for me is a kind of goes back to some of our original conversations you and I had, Ryan, where you know, we we've always we started out doing road marathons and road running and there was a a day, some conversation when we talked about doing Wasatch one hundred and at the time it seemed huge, but you know the Wasatch Mountains are where we live, it's where we gr grew up and it's it's a race we'd heard of and we Both knew how rugged those mountains are and how challenging that course is. And I think it was just kind of a big, a big goal out there that I I wasn't sure when I was gonna get to it and when I was gonna be able to do it. But I've applied for the last few years and and just haven't gotten drawn. Last year I was able to enter Bear as well. It still had wasn't a raffle at that point. So I was able to do bear and had a great experience running bear. It was just Everything came together. It was a great race. I got close to 30 hours. I didn't have that hard of a recovery. Like I didn't get injured. I just felt really good and and thought, hey, maybe maybe the hundred mile is my thing. Like I I really had a good time and and so this year was my year for Wasatch I I wanted to get in bear too just because I enjoyed it so much last year is it was just so fun. But I didn't get into bear, didn't get even on the wait list. and so, but I did get drawn for Wasatch like three times. I don't know how that happened, but I got drawn more more than one time on Wasatch. So I was excited. I'm like, okay, finally, this is my year for Wasatch. I'm gonna go all in on this race. And that was kind of the the one I trained for. I was just excited to finally, to finally be drawn for it. Ryan Head: Yeah, well it's funny that you bring up because I know we've talked about that story multiple times on here. me and you having that conversation. I think it was like twenty like eighteen or something, like twenty nineteen. I remember we were running one day on the Caseville Rail Trail of all things, nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: and I summer us having that conversation. I was like, dude, I wanna run Wasatch one year and you're like, dude, I want to too and I'm like, you know, we were there with my brother Kyle and I think he thought we were nuts, and I'm like, No, dude, like I I totally want to do this and I'm like, I think it'd be fun, like And at the time we had no idea what we were talking about. But we're like, you know, nate: Right. Ryan Head: other people do it. Why can't we do it? Like, we're good enough. nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: Why not? And and so it was kind of cool this year for that to kind of all come together. But you know, just elaborate on what you did last year on Bear. And again, you can go back and listen to the episode. We talked about it. But what Nate did at Bear was super impressive. I mean, he came back from some pretty significant injuries and absolutely destroyed the Bear 100. And yeah, it it's the definition of a race coming together, like perfect. I think in a lot of ways, because it just seemed like everything went your way, which was just fantastic. And I remember just being like, I can't keep up with them. And so I knew, like, I after how well you did last year with that, I was like, okay, if you put in for a wasatch, some good things are gonna happen. I you know, the I guess my next question throw at you is like, what was something you took away from Bear last year that you learned that you were like, can I apply this as I go forward? forward into Wasatch in 2026 because you're right, you applied your name got Tron like more times than any other person. Because nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: you had a lot of tickets, which is fine. You know, it is what it is. But what was something that you were like, dude, I I'm gonna apply this because I it works so well at Barrett's gotta work at Wasatch as well. nate: Well, I mean, with bear, there's there's two things I took away from bear. One of one of them was you know, bear's like 20,000 feet overt. And even with that, I felt like some of the sections climbing were definitely my hardest parts. And I remember on the bear coming up into Tony Grove and and that was a big climb, and it was the end of the day, so I was tired, hadn't cooled down at night yet, and I just remember my chest hurting. my heart hurting and thinking like, that that's kind of scary. And so I I thought, okay, I need to, I need to keep pounding the vert. I gotta get I gotta do even better this year on my vert, on climbing, and just get my climbing legs under me, get my heart and my lungs accustomed to that. and then the other thing, which didn't happen on Bear, but I think I learned because even with the fact that the weather was so good on Bear, it was still really hot on Saturday and I and I even on or sorry on Friday, And also on Saturday dur when the sun came out. And I just that was my biggest fear with Wasatch, is I know it's a hotter race. I know that it was gonna be a big factor was the heat and the sun exposure. And so I did I did heat training this year, which I didn't do last year for Bear and and that was a big focus this year for me on Wasatch. Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Well and that's one thing you stressed multiple times to me your fear of it being hot. And rightfully so, like right like What you've been there, you've seen me do Wasatch now, you know, three times before this year, and you saw how hot it was. You've seen me just be like almost dying and it it nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: it's a true it's truly a good fear. I don't know if fear is the right word, but precaution. Just be cautious of it and be ready to go for that. So I guess that's the next question I throw at you, dude, is like how did you prepare for the heat? Like what did you do? Because this is a really good question that I think a lot of people as they get ready for doing Wasach in twenty twenty-seven. you know, I think our climates are changing. I mean it's not gonna I don't think it's getting any cooler for Wasatch. nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: so you gotta prepare for the heat. And I think it's always kind of been that way historically regardless. But yeah, like what would you what would you recommend to somebody that's like how well what what how should I heat train? What should I do to become more acclimated to it? 'Cause you crushed it. I don't think the heat affected you as as bad as you were like fearing or that you thought could happen. nate: Yeah. Yeah, I I think it definitely the the heat training I did definitely helped. it I I was still feeling the heat, but I I think I I think that's what got me through because I mean th it was a hot summer. There's no other way to say it. Like in my training, y you know, I'm not a morning person as much as you are where I get out super early every morning. And this year I was kinda like, well, maybe that's a good thing. So I'll do I'll do a good percentage of my runs where at least part of the run is out. Is out in the heat. And so I tried to do at least my long run every week. I tried to finish it in the heat. So like if I was doing the the big loop where what is that 15 to 20 mile loop where I'm climbing up Bear Canyon, going over the top and then coming back down Great Western, coming down was harder than going up each time I did that because just the sun would just bake you and it would be late morning or afternoon and the sun's just shining right on you. And I told you there's a couple of times where I got to the bottom and I'm just like, it messed me up. And I and I felt like I had heat stroke just on my training runs. And so I'd go find that river and just lay in the river for like a minute. It that kind of got me out of it. I would rever recover quickly and then I'd be able to move on. But it made me worry like, man, if this happens during the race, I'm kind of screwed because there aren't a lot of rivers out there at that point in the race. There are there are no rivers at that point in the race. So so but that is what I did and and then the other thing I did, I didn't have access to a sauna, which I could have gone and got a membership to a gym, but I did some research on different types of heat training. And one of the things I listened to was David Roche, who's a a ultra runner and coach that I follow, and he talked about hot tub training. And so I did that. I got a thermometer stuck in my tub, got it up between one five and one eight, and I in there. four or five days a week, sat there for twenty to thirty minutes and just sweat and and getting out of the tub after you do that, like it's exhausting. It just drains you so much. And I think that that kind of s I did definitely felt myself sweating earlier and and much more after I started doing that. So it was doing something to me. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Well, and I remember you talking to me about that where you were like, you know, on a couple of these runs, you were like, dude, I'm sweating so bad, like what is going on? And nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: I'm like, and I remember being like, dude, I actually think that's healthy. Like, 'cause your body is adapting to be like, Okay, I need to release like sweat to try to cool you down. And so it was really cool to see you become very heat acclimated because I think by the end of the training block, you were doing really well. And it was fun. It was fun to see that. how did training go for you for Wasatch? Meaning like your mileage, your vert, your whatever. How did that go this year in 2026? nate: I thought it went really well. I didn't have any major roadblocks, didn't get injured. once I started my hundred mile training, you know, I I did have a couple little things that were nagging at me. I had an ankle that was bugging me. I had one of my knees that would come on and off, but never totally blew up either of them. and and I didn't do as much volume as as you from a distance standpoint. And I I think maybe next year I might push it a little bit more and see how my body does, but I mean, my peak weeks were like in the 50s. but I did I do feel like I pushed the vert quite a bit. Like there were some weeks I got up above sixteen thousand, which for me is big. I know some people do a lot more than that, but for me, like I was feeling tired those weeks. And so and those weren't just like easy hikes either. Like those those were weeks when I was pushing it and climbing, you know, bear and and going over to the cottonwoods and doing gobbler's knob and climbing mailens and you know, Broad's peak, and s some of those. so I mean it was it was tough miles and it was a lot of it was hot. and so I felt pretty good about about the training going in. I did a couple longer runs, like I did the first 30 miles one day. that was hard. It was like 95 degrees in the valley when I did that. and then we tr we did the lambs to to Brighton and that one. ended up being nice and cool. We got rained on a bunch, but that was still a a good good long run to do. So and not to mention Skyline. I mean that was another b blazing hot day when we got some good heat training in. Ryan Head: and lack of water train too. nate: Jeez. I know. I don't know if that helped us or hurt us having that one. Ryan Head: again I'm I wanna be nice and not beat up the race director too much, but yeah, nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: I I kinda let loose just a little bit on the last episode and and just said, you know, I think he's learned a few lessons from at least I hope he has, from that bad situation that he put a lot of us runners in. But I was gonna say the one the one run you didn't talk about was your Mount Whitney experience. nate: I I mean I don't I don't even know what you mean when you say you're teasing like that th that was freaking epic. I I mean I climbed Mount Whitney, but it was a hike. it wasn't a run. I I think it took us like I don't even remember, ten hours, eight hours, something. But but I mean that's one of the things I love about about ultra training in general is like bag and peaks. To me that's what makes it fun. I I don't I I have a hard time just doing the same trail every day, but like when I can say, Hey, this weekend I'm gonna go do a big peak or you know, once or twice in next week I'm gonna do do go do something fun, hit King's Peak or or go do like, you know, something up in the cottonwoods. To me that's what makes it exciting. So yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: Wit Mount Whitney was fun. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Yeah, I mean you like that's the one thing I would say about your training that was really cool to see was like you said, you didn't necessarily do as many miles as me the volume wise, which is totally fine. I don't I like I said, I think everybody is unique and different in their own approaches and I don't think you need to be doing sixty to eighty miles a week like I was doing. I was doing that because, you know, I always do wall sitch bear back to back and that's nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: how I have to train to to get those two. I really do think if you're doing just one of those races you you know 50 maybe 60 at a peak is good But fifty is gonna get you there for sure. With the vert the amount of vert you were doing, yeah, of course you were sore, but I dude, you were crushing it. Like you were moving on these climbs and I was like, Okay, like you you're doing the right things to be successful at Wasatch. And I just remember multiple times thinking like he's gonna do great because he's getting that vert that's gonna make the big difference on race day. And so, couple of, you know, runs that I, you know, I do wanna expound on as well because you were there You we basically did almost the whole course this summer at one time or another. I well I didn't all do all of them with you. You did almost all of the whole course this summer. why? Why why do you think that was important for your training? and obviously this is your first wasuch, so so I'm probably leading the witness on this one, but nate: Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: why why was that important to you to do basically the whole race before race day? nate: Yeah, I think part of it is curiosity. Like I wanted to see every every spot I'm I'm gonna run. And and you know, I'm kind of a nerd when it comes to data. Like I I have all the maps downloaded. I like to watch them while I'm running just so I can kind of say, Okay, here's here this part's hard because it you know, I climbed the thousand feet of Earth and and it sucks. And then, you know, I go over this ridge and it flattens out. And so I like I think some of that like I I memorize in my mind so that when I hit the trail on on race day. And it and it was good because like that first 30 miles, I knew when I was gonna hit, you know, that climb before bountiful B I like I knew that was gonna be hard. Whereas when I did that training run, I was kind of I was just surprised at at how hard that felt to me at that time. And and Ryan Head: Heck yeah. nate: then the climb after sessions, like on the map, that doesn't look bad at all, looks great. when you hit that section on on the training run and on the actual race day, like that section sucks. Ryan Head: Ha ha does. nate: I that was that was the hardest section for me of the whole race, other than maybe Brighton Ryan Head: Me too. nate: when I got sick. But but like so so just being able to know that and then I come in and like it was actually easier on race day coming through because I I knew what it was like and and and then, you know, with the adrenaline race day it felt a little bit easier. Ryan Head: That's so funny you say that because dude it yeah, I don't want to give away the race day stuff, but I love that you went and did so many parts of the race beforehand because it really did make, I think, a big difference for you. for me, obviously I've done it before, so nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: I still did lots of the race with you, but I think it was instrumental for you to feel pretty confident about that first 30 miles. I mean, I think you would have done it regardless, but nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: it also did give you a good idea. And the other cool thing that, whether intentional or unintentional, that you did was you did you did that first 32 miles of the race from the start to to Big Mountain and in hotter weather than what you would have done on race day, which ultimately, I mean, you know, by coincidence, that's what happened. And so it was kind of cool for you to get there. And, you know, too bad the guy that wasn't, you know, that was coming to pick you up didn't freaking get there on time, and you're over there waiting for for 45 minutes. nate: No. That was part of my training. I my coach wanted to make sure I felt the pain of Big Mountain. No. No, no. Ryan Head: I felt so bad about that. my gosh. I nate: That that was it's kind of funny though because like both times I came into to Big Mountain the on the training run and then in the real race, like I had run out of water a little earlier than I wanted to and I was just I was just hot and thirsty. So so I felt very similar on race day in that regard. Ryan Head: That's cool. Yeah. Well and and like you said, I think that section is such an important section. I know it's not easy for people to do because in reality there's not a lot of water drops in that area and it can be very dangerous and so you have if you're gonna run it you gotta be very strategic. But it was cool to see that you did it and you pulled it off and you learned a lot about yourself and you're like, okay, like it's go time. So nate: Yep. Ryan Head: cool. All right. Well you've kinda given us a good idea of what your training block looked like and, you know, kind of the mileage you were doing, the vert you were doing. I mean you were getting some great vert. take us to, you know, the night before the race or the day before the race and then Yeah, get into the race, man. How did that all go for you? nate: yeah, so you know me before races I get I get kind of nervous. I get quiet, I get grumpy. I'm not like some some people that just like get in there and get all pumped up and want to be meeting and shaking hands at at the drop back, drop off. But yeah, I I start getting nervous. I I get in my head, I think through different things. I'm also excited, but I remember like seeing the the the welcome email from the race director and Just it just hit me. I'm like, okay, this is real. We're I'm doing this. It's go time. And so I was excited. But but yeah, like when I went to check in at the park, drop off my drop bags, I'm just like butterflies. I just want to get started. I I think I've made a comment to you and Eric. We were texting back and forth. And for me, like I said, my ADD brain doesn't like just sitting here. It wants to it wants to get moving and focusing on the task at hand, which is essentially just keep moving forward. And and just sitting and playing the waiting game is not fun for me. Ryan Head: Yeah. Well Yeah, and I remember you being buried at times in the text message thread. You were like I don't know if agitate's the right word, but like you said, you were nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: like, I don't wanna like freaking think about this any longer. Like the stress levels are climbing and you're like, dude, I'm just I'm so sick of this and and I get it, like, you know, I'm doing everything I can personally just to keep calm myself and I'm seeing you guys are like, Okay, like the the nerves have just hit and all this other jazz and nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: and I get it, but yeah, it's one of those things you kinda have to play that game. 'Cause you're just like, hey, I gotta somehow fall asleep tonight and yeah, how did nate: Yep. Ryan Head: sleep go that night for you? Did you just get a good night's sleep or was it pretty rough? nate: No, I slept great, but the the reason why is cause I do my ambient. Like I I don't know if I recommend that to other people 'cause it can be addictive, but when I'm getting ready for a a big effort that I have to wake up really early for and I want to have some rest, I will pop an ambient, I got a prescription. And I take it maybe during training once a week at most, but definitely the night before race day. I went to bed at like seven thirty. I don't remember anything until I woke up at at two thirty or three or whatever time I woke up. So I don't know how how like restful my sleep was, but I was totally out, which to me is is pretty big because otherwise I'm just like tossing and turning all night. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's awesome. Makes me wonder what other prescriptions you have, so Yeah I don't I'm just nate: I can tell you, you want me to list them? No, there's th there's definitely a few. Ryan Head: kidding. That's awesome. nate: Some are prescription, some are some are not prescription, but I think we get those too. Ryan Head: I'm sure that's awesome. That makes me laugh. Well that's cool. I I I know honestly when you came to the start line I was like, you looked rested, man. I was like, you did better than me, 'cause I I freaking nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: sat here and as I mentioned on the last episode, I I sat there and I dreamed about the Bear One Hundred, not even Wasatch. nate: Ha. Ryan Head: And I'm like, why am I dreaming about the Bear One Hundred when I want to be focusing on Wasatch? So anyways, I I got I remember getting to the start of the race and you know seeing you there. and Eric and you know basically the whole crew and Sean and Honey Badger and Jacob and we saw Jenny nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: and it was fun. It was fun to like be there at the start and be like, okay, it's go time. Like here we go. Like this is it. So yeah, take us to the start of the race man and the in the beginning of the race for you. How did that go? nate: Yeah, it was great. I woke up, had had breakfast. I I I I didn't have what I was planning on having. I was gonna have oatmeal. I ended up having those little three minute rice things and I s and I put a bunch of peaches in. I just loaded up on rice. And I wanted I wanted to get there like an hour early because I was gonna park my car at the start. So I got there. Very few people were there. I had my 54 ouncer of Diet Mountain Dew just drinking away on that and starting to get some caffeine in me. And yeah, it I felt great. I was just excited to get started, excited to see friends as they trickled in, saw a couple of people I didn't know were gonna show up at the start line and so it was just kind of fun catching up and I wasn't as grumpy as I usually am on at the start line. So that it was kind of fun. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's awesome. What do you think about that fifty four ouncer? Is that is that is that a must every time? nate: So I don't know I don't know if it helps me or hurts me, but I like to have my like my morning soda. And I Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. nate: think that the one thing it does do is it it does hydrate me a lot, plus it gives me a little bit of caffeine. But it kind of backfired a little bit this race, as you know, because I'm like I got into the Conga line and we're sitting there. You told me the Conga line was was like back to back and all backed up. I had no idea. I'm like walking like I'm s in in line to get in the elevator or something. I I'm sitting here standing there watching people go up that mountain and I'm just have to stand there. It was actually stressful just having it get in that line. I'm like, I wanna run, let's go. And so I get caught. I think we started far back enough and and then strategically we did this, so we weren't pushing too hard at the start, but I was like raring to go. I wasn't tired. I'm like, you guys need to pick up the pace. I'm never gonna get to the top of this mountain. And I'm going up and all of a sudden I got a pee so bad, I'm like, shoot. If I don't pee, if I if I have to pee, I'm gonna have to get out of this line. I'm gonna lose Ryan. I'm gonna lose Eric. And then I'm gonna be even further back. And so I was trying to come up with any other things I could do to prevent myself from having to stop. But after after a couple failed a attempts, I I end up jumping off the Congo line and I was I was there's no catching up to guys after that. Wait, you want me to Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: tell about the water bottle attempt that Eric ha called me out on? Ryan Head: Do you wanna share the do you wanna share nate: Okay. Okay. So Ryan Head: that? nate: so I I'm walking. Here's the thing. It's usually not that hard to stop and pee in a hundred mile race. All right. The reason it's so hard is because it was literally back to back. And if I get out of the line, I'm gonna be like 30 people back. And I wanted to kind of hang with friends so I could chat and have a good time going up that, you know, two and a half, three hour climb or whatever it was. But and so like I'm like, okay, what can I do? I definitely can't hold it the whole time because I had to go really bad and I was only like five minutes in. So I'm like, I've got this extra soft flask I got in my pack. I'm like, I wonder if I could pee into that while I'm walking. And so I like pull it out and I'm like doing this thing. And and all of a sudden Eric from behind me is like, Are you po are you trying to pee in that bottle? I'm like, no. So I like immediately. pull it back and I'm like, okay, I'm not trying that. I got I got too gun shy. But but I was like anything I could do. So anyways, that failed. And then I end up having just jump off the trail. Ryan Head: Yeah. man, that story was funny. I remember b I didn't know you were doing that 'cause I was kinda I think I was at the head of the line between you, me and Eric. nate: Yeah, yeah, you're in front of me, yep. Ryan Head: Yeah, and I had no idea you were trying that, which I guess I'm glad it didn't work out but nate: Well, I mean like what I found out is like it's it's harder to pee while you're walking than I thought it would be. I guess I'd never tried it before, but it it wasn't happening for me. Ryan Head: Yeah. So there you go, people the stories from Ultras nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: and going to the bathroom. Yeah, I you know, that's funny, you know, you mentioned that because the conga line is insane going up bare. Like, and and I've mentioned this, you know, on Jacob's podcast, I've mentioned this on all the other podcasts. You know, like it is one of those things that's like borderline epic because you're just stuck. Like you're not going fast and at times people are like slowing down, people fall off, right? They can't keep the pace because you know, you got people coming from all over the United States, out of the country, and they've never climbed up Bear Canyon. They don't know what's coming. And it's like 4,500 feet in like three, three and a half miles. It kicks you in the teeth. And you're just like at times it's like 30 to 40% incline and you're just like, this sucks. And so you're you're constantly dealing with people who are like you know slowing down and whatnot and you can't get past them and then you try to get past them. They have to peel off and it's just this kind of nightmare. And so you just slowly get up that trail but Yeah, it was kinda cool because you did fall behind because you needed to step off for a minute. but yeah, and then right like wasn't much longer after we got to the top that all of a sudden you popped up there and you're like, Hey, what's up, dude? So yeah, what happened once you got to the top? nate: I mean, I think that the good aspect of going so slow was I felt great. I had good energy. I got to the top. It was still pretty cool. There was a nice breeze up there. And then I knew what was coming because we'd run that a dozen times and and it we had some nice downhill coming. So I was like, okay, let's let's see if I can make up some of that pace and get get back to my kind of tar average target pace. So you know, that that section from Francis down to Groben's, I just kind of I didn't push it too hard, but I was like, let me just kind of go at a pace that feels good. And that ended up being like, I don't know, nine minute miles. I I probably should have slowed down a little bit intentionally, but it was just it felt really good. And got to Groben's, got a drink, and just kept going. And it wasn't until I hit that climb up to Bears, actually slightly before that, that I started not Bears to Bountiful Bee, that I started feeling tired. Like So there's that section after Groben's where there's a little bit of a technical downhill and you kind of go down and around, you like have a couple of little river crossings. The people I was with in front of and behind me, they were moving fast. They're too fast for me. And I stuck with them because I'm like, I just these are, you know, I'm not gonna jump off the trail, just keep going their their pace. And and I was okay, but I could kind of feel, you know, my heart rate was going up a bit. Then we hit the climb to Bountiful B, and I'm like, shoot, okay, now I'm tired. And there were a couple of times on that climb where I had to like step off and take a breath. and and I was starting to feel it. And I'm like, okay, this is probably a section I should have slowed down a little bit. I don't want to burn myself out and blow up. so after Bountiful B, I tried to slow down a little bit. Ryan Head: Yeah. No, that's that's really cool. And and I get it, like you get excited, you get going. And I remember you getting to Francis Peak. So Francis Peak is probably a mile after Bear. And once you hit Francis, it's like Nate said, it's all downhill for like the most cherry four miles of this race. Like it is perfect. Trails, it's clean, you can run as fast as you want. And I remember Nate was like, You ready? And I'm Yeah, I'm ready. And all of a sudden he just goes and I'm like, peace, bro. Yeah, I'm like, nate: Yeah, I see it. Ryan Head: I'm not sane with that. Like, I'm like, I my goal was to stay somewhere between like a nine forty-five to a ten fifteen, and that's what I'm gonna do. And I'm like, I'm I Don't wanna even try. I'm like, I'll see if later on, maybe. If not, that's okay. Like this is exactly what happened at Bear last year, is mile ten, you left, and I never saw you again. That's okay. Like, we all gotta run our races and and whatnot. But you know, fortunate for me that wasn't the end but w of seeing you on the race, but we'll we'll get to that in a moment. But yeah, so you get to Bountiful B, how did it go there? Check it in there, getting, you know, aid and then moving on from there. How did that all go? nate: yeah, I was in and out super fast, grabbed my stuff out of my drop bag and and kept going. And I knew the section after that was pretty pretty fast walking. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna catch up on I'm gonna like calm down and and just walk this next section. I'll walk at like a fifteen minute mile pace. That's easy. I'm a tall guy, I can kinda just lock into that. So that's what I did and it it actually felt great. I you know, my heart rate kinda went back down. I was feeling good. And you know, got some nutrition in me. So yeah, and and it like it was a still a hot day, but at that point in the race, I'm sure you remember this too. But there was a nice breeze, like it still felt pretty cool up there. And I'm like, man, if it's like this all day, this is golden. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be good. Cause you know, I kind of had an A and a B and a C plan for myself. And I showed you the A plan, which was like try and come close to 30, 30 hours, and I knew. That like I I didn't know if that was possible or not. I knew I could have done it on bear because I think I held back a little bit on bear, barely missed it. But I'm like, okay, I trained a little better this year. Let's see if I can do it on Wasatch. And so my plan was like, lock into that, see, see how I feel coming into Big Mountain. If if I'm still on pace, like maybe I've got a shot. if not, I'm gonna pull back and just focus on trying to finish the race. And so that at that point, passing Bountiful B and going towards sessions, like I was like, okay, I I think I'm pretty close. I I can still kinda keep on this seventeen, eighteen minute mile pace on average. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Yeah, I I agree with you. I remember getting to Bountiful Bee myself and and being like, dude, this weather is amazing. And then I left that. And like you said, I ran a lot of that from then on. Like I was running from I think that's the fastest I've ever done set Bountiful Bee, which is mile sixteen, to sessions, which is like almost twenty one. It's just barely under. I I flew myself and I remember I think I remember I I I was hearing that I was like fifteen to twenty minutes behind you at that point, and then I think nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: You almost got to be about 30 minutes ahead of me by the time we got to Big Mountain, but I don't want to put the cart before the horse there. But you know, I remember getting to sessions and like you said, that breeze was just amazing. Like, and it was keeping nate: yeah, no, it's great. Ryan Head: the day cool. so you know, I get I I remember I got to sessions around like 1120, and I think you'd been there like 11 o'clock, maybe even a little bit sooner. You we both get in there, you're still ahead of me, we get going. How what is it like? because I don't e I didn't even elaborate on this in my episode. What is it like from sessions, mile 20 to Big Mountain? Because I think for anyone that wants to do wasatch, this is an important section to really pay attention to because it's hard. I I mean I know I'm just nate: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: giving it I'm giving it away already, but tell tell what it's like man, because that it's I I personally think it's 12 miles of pure hell. Just my opinion. nate: You know, it's it's funny 'cause like it the the profile of the trail, it shouldn't be that hard. Ryan Head: Yep. nate: it's not that technical. you know, it's a nice rolling i other than a couple of climbs, right? Right the the climb right after sessions and then there's one more out a little bit further. It's not bad. It's like rolling hills. I think it's hard because it's just starting to get warm. You've got a a relatively big climb right after you've you've just finished your first 20. And so there's like a psychological element that's that's starting to kick in of like, okay, I've I'm 20% done. I've got I've still got all this, you know, 80% left. And all of a sudden I'm starting and there's this climb that's a lot bigger than it looks on the map. and the sun's starting to come out, so I'm getting hot. And so and it's a relatively long section from there to Big Mountain. So you've you've got a long stretch without aid. And I think that also takes a little bit of a mental toll as well. so yeah, I mean coming out of sessions I felt great. I was in good spirits. had had some food to eat at sessions and I knew that there was going to be a climb there. So I just kind of locked in and and was trying to take the climb relatively easy and slow, which I did. Still wasn't super hot. But but yeah, I took it relatively slow and just kinda stuck with that pace. But I think it just the fatigue slowly builds on there. Like I could start feeling the climbs getting a little harder. Like I could feel it a little bit in my chest, I could feel it a little bit in my lungs. I think I had to take a couple puffs of my inhaler. As you know, I have asthma that kicks in. And and so I was starting to to feel all those elements coming in and knowing that I still had a long ways to go. Ryan Head: Yeah. Well and I I share I echo the same things. There's just like you said, it's not really technical, that section. It's just it's twelve miles of exposed trails. You're you're constantly getting hit with the sun and you have to load up on supplies because you know nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: it's gonna get hot and so you're loading up on ice, you're loading up on water, and it kind of like bogs you down almost and you're like nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: and you have to play the game. You're like, well maybe if I go fast in that section, maybe I don't need all this water and then I can move quick. But if you don't if you if if you don't if you play that game and you lose, you're probably DNFing the race very quickly. so it nate: Yeah. Right. yeah. Ryan Head: it yeah it's a dangerous like I wanna say dangerous, but it's like a it's a make or break section of your race. 100%. nate: Yeah, I agree. Ca and and luckily I did load up on on water. I t filled up my two two liter bladder plus one soft flask. I should of loaded up one more soft flask for a total of three liters 'cause I Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. nate: r I ran a little bit short, but I don't know how I would have done it if I didn't have every drop of the water I did have. Ryan Head: Yep. Well and I'm the same way. I I even take it one step further. I do both flasks, two liter in the back, and then I do a handheld. Dude, I'm yeah. nate: do you? See, that's smart. That's smart. Ryan Head: Yeah, I'm like I just need that much water in that section because you just it gets so hot and you're so exposed and I'm like, I just don't want to play this game and so nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: so yeah, so I totally get ya. And like you said, it's just rollers. It's like and and some of the it's like two hundred foot climbs over and over and over and then two hundred foot nate: Yeah. Over and over, yep. Ryan Head: yeah, and then another two foot two hundred foot drop and you just you keep doing this over and over and over and you never can get into a good rhythm. That's the one thing nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: I always say about Wallace, it's up, down, up, down, done. you know, I said this on the last nate: Yep. Ryan Head: episode and and you're just like, why can't I get into a freaking rhythm? Like I can never just like, okay, like lock in for eight miles of downhill or eight miles of hiking. It's just like, nope, nate: Yeah. Yep. Ryan Head: you get you get everything, every other half mile, and you're like, my gosh, like I nate: Yep. Ryan Head: can't focus. So Yeah, I I get where you're coming from there. So well take us take us what it was take us to what it was like getting into Big Mountain and you know, surviving for the first thirty two miles now on race day instead of, you know, on a training run. nate: Well, this is the first section where I was like, Okay, I need to have a crew going forward because this year I didn't I didn't have a formal crew. my wife was gonna meet me at Lands. I had one pacer from Brighton to the finish, which is my sister Amy. And then but my parents luckily were like, Hey, we wanna see you somewhere. w where would be a good spot for us to see you? And and I was like, Well, you can show up to Big Mountain if you want. Like I I probably should be fine, but if you wanna show up, that's great. And I'm really glad I did because Like I just needed some some like moral support, honestly. It was just nice having a chair ready for me, sit down. They had some they they had you know, all my drop bag ready, gave me some stuff to drink, cooled me down, and it made a big difference. So I'm like, man, I'm a I'm now a believer in having a solid crew from start to finish on these big races. so it was good. And then I saw Jacob there. It was that was kind of a fun thing to see Jacob and and Jenny, and of course they're your crew, but they're they're friends of mine as well. And so it it just kind of an overall like morale boost. Plus, I found out you were so close behind. I was like, holy crap, Ryan's been getting pushing because I just didn't know how far back you were. So it would you were close enough where if I had just hung back for a few minutes, you would have caught me there. But I'm like, part of me's like, okay, it would be fun to to run the second half with him. But also if he's catching me already, he's going faster than I am. So I gotta like I can't just sit here and bide my time at this aid station. I gotta keep going and he'll probably catch me. So you know, I loaded up, cooled down a little bit and and took off again. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Yeah, I remember coming to that eat station, your parents were there, and I started like talking to them. I'm like, Whoa, what are you guys doing here? And I figured they they'd been there for you, but they're like, Nate left like five minutes ago. They're like, You can go catch him. And I'm like, I'm not gonna purposely try to catch him. If it happens naturally, nate: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: then great, but I am not gonna go chase down chase him down. I'm like, sorry. And like you said, I got in there, saw Jacob, you know, Jenny was there, got me all cooled down, got me some new supplies, got my shoes changed, and we nate: Yep. Ryan Head: took off. How is that, in your opinion? What is how is that climb out of Big Mountain, over to Bald and then down Alexander? What's that like for you? nate: So one of the best things I did, and I'm gonna do this on every hot race for for as long as I keep racing, is is that I I got one of those ice bandanas and I just filled Ryan Head: Heck yeah. nate: that sucker full of ice and and put it around my neck. And it it was so cold that it was like freezing my neck, but I could feel it just like draining down me. And so that climb coming out of Big Mountain was not too bad. Like I and and again, it was one of those that I mentally prepared for. We we did this one many times so I knew like, okay, there's a kind of a pain, a painful climb right out of Big Mountain. That wasn't what killed me. What killed me on that section was kind of what we talked about a little bit ago is the constant up and down, up and down. I'm like, I when we do when we do Big Mountain to Lambs, we take a slightly different route. And I forgot when you take the one on the actual race, there's some like really technical downhill and then uphill and then downhill and then uphill then downhill And when you're like running down into Alexander, that that actually beat me up pretty good. By that time, I think just like cumulatively building up the the I don't know, dehydration, I guess if you will, from from sessions all the way to Alexander, I was I was actually dehydrated. I peed and I looked at my pee and I'm like, that's that's not good. Like I I need to be taking in more water, I'm not drinking enough. And so I realized was dehydrated. by the time I got into Alexander, like those ladies, the the women of Wasat's group, man, that aid station probably saved me more than Ryan Head: Common. nate: any other aid station on this race. like they were totally revived me. And I I don't I think it was like I had pickle juice, I sat down, they had like a fan going in the shade. they kind of came and asked a few times what I wanted. I don't remember what I ate half the time, but but like that I needed that aid station really bad and they came through big time for me. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Yeah, it was really cool because I was not far behind you at this point. And I remember coming into that aid station and I go to sit down just for a second. Jacob's getting my vest, getting it all taken care of, and all of a sudden you're you come around the corner, you're like, Dude, what's nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: up, man? And I'm like, Holy crap, Nate, you're here and I couldn't believe I'd actually caught nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: you. And you're like, Dude, it's been so hot and I was like, I know, it's been bad, you know, and we were like chatting for a minute and I was like, dude, you don't have to wait for us and you're like, Well, I'm gonna go, but try to catch me and And you're like, if anything, I'll just meet I'll wait for you at Lamb's cause you know, you were like, I think I might want to do the night section with you and I was like, nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah, that'd be freaking sweet and but you're right, those you know, the girls, you know, the women of Wasatch, they they cr they crushed it at Alexander Aid Station. That was fantastic. I I ate so many popsicles there. It was like eight of and yeah Dude, I s totally Yeah. nate: I saw you with like five or six of them in your hands. I'm like, Well dude, that's you taking more than your share. Ryan Head: man, I was like, just keep coming, like, keep coming and and it was fun, you know, and then you know, I'm walking out of there with Jacob and I grab him and I and I throw in the, you know, the garbage can there as I'm walking out. And I'm just like, Hey, let's go, Jacob. Like, let's get out of here and let's get get back up there. And I and then part of me was like, Should we chase Nate? And I was like, No, I don't wanna chase Nate. I wanna like just go my regular my regular pace. And if we see him at Lambs, nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: great. So yeah, so how how was it that section after Alexander to Lambs? Like How did that go for ya? nate: It it was it was okay. Like it it was good. I felt definitely felt revived coming out of Alexander. I had some I I felt like I was a little bit better hydrated, had some real food in me. I had a bunch of potatoes and and watermelon and and so like I felt good that way. And I was taking it a little bit slower at that point. It was just really hot, as you remember, like that part of the day was blistering hot and the sun was right on us the whole time. until you get up that climb and you start and you turn over into the trees and that that was just fun. Like I was listening to some music. I was starting to feel like it was starting to cool down a little bit and that section going down into lambs, like that was probably my favorite section of the whole race. Other than the fact that I was alone, I just felt good. Like it was cooling down. I was like, I can I start to think like I can do this. I was able to pick up the pace a little bit and it was just fun. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I remember, you know, coming into to Lambs, right? So we're halfway through the race now and get there and you're there with your whole family, your fa you know, their family's there taking care of you and everything. And and I remember you being like, Hey dude, I'm done trying to push for like some nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: thirty something hour You're like, Let's do this together and you know, we had Cody Vable there, Jacob was was ending his his careering at the time and so Cody's like, Yeah, let's go, like all three of us and yeah, nate: Yep. Ryan Head: I I was kind of excited Because I was like, part of me want like selfishly, I wanted you to stay with us, but I also didn't want you to throw your race. I was like, yeah, I want you to go have your race, do what you want to do. But yeah, how did the ninth section go for you, dude? Because obviously I know because I was there the whole time, but nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: how did that go for you personally? Because I I felt like we rocked the ninth section. That's me personally. nate: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: I think that's the fastest me and you've ever done it, because I know you've paced me before nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: in it. not as fast as we've done it on fresh legs, but you know, we had a good time. Like we were flying, we were laughing, we were joking, we were getting after each other, taking poos in the forest, taking Yeah. Yeah. nate: Fighting up fighting about moose and this and that. No, it was fun. I I think I knew like I when I when I the first half of the race, I was just like, you know what, this is this is not bare for me. all the things aren't coming together. I felt dehydrated, my stomach was giving me problems all day. it was just it just wasn't moving food the way it was supposed to. it was hotter, the trails were just hot harder than I had had remembered and and expected. I And I'm like, if I'm gonna get through this race, I need to I need to like I need to have a good night and I need to hang out with friends and like get my spirits up and and have some fun. So I was like, man, if I can just stick with Ryan and Cody, I think it I think it'll totally make my race. So no, the right the the nighttime just felt like another training run to me. It was just like a few guys getting together and having fun. And time just went by so much faster talking and joking around and know it was it was a great night. It was it was fun. And I think it helped revive me too. Like it was just heart our heart rates went down. I know you were saying yours did, mine did too. it cooled cooled us off finally. even in the night it wasn't that cold, but it it finally like cooled us off in certain sections where we felt actually kind of cold. not enough to like put on a jacket or anything, but like enough to to like you know, feel like we weren't sweating. so that was fun. And then just yeah, a couple of those aid stations were great. Like Upper Big Water, that was a fun aid station. It's cool to see Michael Whiteside and some other folks in there. And and they had some really good food. I had I had this like cheesy bacon potatoes that Michael made that just hit the spot really good. it no, it was a great night. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Yeah, I felt like we crushed it. We did really good. I mean, I it's funny because Cody likes to tell this story and it and it partially is true. My the only like part where I felt like we kind of had a little bit of a breakdown. Not breakdown, it's probably not the right word, but we got Scots. Me and you both were kind of like slowing down and we weren't eating as much and like I think nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: we were both just tired and right. That's mile sixty-five. Like no one's gonna nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: blame us too much. But I remember Cody being like, Okay, you two, let's go. Like it's time to it's time to get moved. nate: Well I I wonder I wonder if part of his worry was like he was worried about my mental state. 'Cause like, okay, I don't know if you remember this, Ryan, but like I I get into Scott's, some guy's like, Hey, hey, is that your flashlight on? I'm like, that's my my watch flashlight. I had turned my watch flashlight on because Ryan Head: yeah, that's right. nate: I was trying to poo and I need a light and and I Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: forgot to turn it off. And so I'm like walking all night with my stupid white watch flash on. I go to try to turn it off. It's not turning off. I like like Ryan Head: Ha ha. nate: my my brain, like my muscle memory knows how to turn off and on my my watch flashlight, but it wasn't working. And so I was either pushing the wrong button or whatnot. And so I get in and I still like playing around with it. And all of a sudden I'm like setting off my phone alarm. It's like beeping. Ryan Head: Ha ha. nate: My light's still on. I'm sitting here fiddling around. I stop my activity. I accidentally delete it. And I'm sitting here cursing at my watch. Cody's probably watching me being like, dude, you okay? Like you gonna And then we sit down Ryan Head: And I'm over there just I'm watching this whole thing play out because I'm like, dude, it just means I don't have to run right now. So I'm just like, I'm nate: I know. Ryan Head: truly sitting in a chair watching Nate. I'm just enjoying the show. And yeah, go ahead. nate: And yeah. And then finally I sit down and I'm like, yeah. yeah, broth. yeah, food. And I'm so so I'm like doing that. And then and then we I sit there for a second, I'm like, this actually feels really good. Like just sitting here feels good. And all of a sudden Cody's like, Come on guys, gotta get going. I'm like, son Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: of a gun Ryan Head: And I remember I specifically said out loud, I remember because I now I remember the the the whole watching. I totally forgot all about that because your watch was freaking out and you were like trying to figure out then you're over there ca cursing it and you're like stupid thing and you're like I just deleted my whole freaking run. And I remember I remember being like I'm just sitting there watching this enjoying every moment and I like, hallelujah, dude, this is like I don't have to run for a minute, I'm off my feet and then Cody's like, Hey, it it's time to go and I remember specifically saying out loud, like, Hey man, I Nate can keep doing This for as long as he needs, like, I'm good to just sit here and relax. And he's like, Come on, you guys, let's go. So I remember nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: we got up and you know, we took off from there. And and again, I wouldn't say we did it as fast as we did on Fresh Legs, but we cooked down nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: from Scots down to Brighton, Puke Hill, and everything. We were nate: yeah, we did. Ryan Head: we flew down that, and we got into Brighton, and that's the earliest I've ever been to Brighton. Me and you got there right before four o'clock. I think it was 3:55, and nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: I was feeling good. I was like, dude, we got this in the bag and so both of us getting to Brighton what happened there at Brighton for you man nate: Well, so I get to Brighton. I'm like, okay, we get we got like fifteen or twenty minutes. I got and and I knew at that time I'm like, I need something to eat. I haven't been taking in enough food. and I'd kinda been holding off because that stupid flow gel stuff that I had, man, I did not want to touch that for the rest of the race. So I'd kinda been holding back a little bit, coming into Brighton, thinking, I'm gonna get like a really good breakfast at Brighton and so I don't have to take quite as much. And I think I I think I held back too much because when I got there, my stomach was starting to feel upset. And then I felt like I'll I was like scrambling for this and that and and I'm like, where's Amy? I couldn't find Amy for like two or three minutes. Amy's the my pacer. So I'm like pulling up my phone, looking for fine mai, trying to find her. Finally I find her and it's just chaos, man. And so like by the time I sat down, she handed me some hash browns to eat. I s you know, like throw those in my mouth. All of a sudden you're gone. I'm like, what the heck? Where are you going, Ryan? You gonna wait wait for us. And and then I was like, in my mind, I'm like, Ryan's trying to beat us. Like Ryan's leaving us. And so I'm like, okay. I'm like, okay, Amy, I just need to get one more thing. So I grab one thing and then we start going. And you guys are already long gone. I couldn't even see you and Joe. And and so like Amy's sitting there and she's like, Are you okay? We start climbing up towards Catherine's. And I knew Like mentally I'd been preparing myself for this. I'm like, this is gonna be the worst section of the race. Like I can tell you right now, this is not gonna be fun. And in my mind I was just dreading it. Well, like I had climbed like a hundred feet up and all of a sudden like nausea hit me. I just felt sick. I'm like I'm like Amy Amy could tell sh I was just pale. she's like, Are you okay? And I could tell in her eyes she's like, this isn't good. I don't think he's gonna be able to finish this race like how he looks right now. So I'm like, just give me a minute. So I go off the trail. I thought I was gonna puke. Instead, I pooped, which was good. Actually, that helped. sat there for a second. I'm like, okay, am I gonna puke? I don't wanna puke, maybe it'll help me, but I really don't want to. And so I came back out on the trail and I told Amy, I'm like, okay, we're just gonna have to go really slow. I'm sorry. Like this hill, this climb is not gonna be fun. I just gotta go slow. And so we just started going. And as we're going, I'm like looking up, I see all these headlights up there, and all of a sudden that same guy that was barfing at night, I heard him just like you you know how he sounded. He sounded Ryan Head: Yeah, dude, we heard him too. nate: like a freaking bear was dying in the woods. And and and so I'm hearing that. I'm Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: feeling how I'm feeling. I'm just like this in impending feeling of doom. I'm like this Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: this night is not gonna be good. I just gotta keep going. Ryan Head: Yeah. Well, dude, and I'm the same way. Like, if I smell or I see someone throw up, it's almost game over for me. It's like instantaneous, I'm gonna throw up. Like, and so I'm trying to like avoid like when we saw him in the middle of the night, me and you, but then we heard him as well behind us, and I was like, my gosh, I gotta nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: just get away from dude. I'm like, I I can't see this again, or I'm gonna throw up myself. You know, and I I will go on record because I know you think we were trying to beat you and Amy, and Amy kept calling me out on that. What it was and joke. Can validate this. Joe was very much about every eight station was like supposed to be very quick, in and out. As you saw, we did that basically nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: from then on. She was like, Nope, you need to get in eight stations and get out of eight stations. And she's like, we are in like three to five minutes max. And basically, that's what happened the rest of the race. Me and her when we were together, nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: she's like, You are not allowed to set an eight station for more than three to five minutes, like, be ready to move. And so, yeah, that's why she was like, I remember her being like, Come on, Ryan, it's time to go. And I was like, But Nate, I'm like, I'm like, Nate's still just setting there. And she's like, doesn't matter. Let's go. And and nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: honestly, like, I don't want to beat up on the aid station there because I appreciate Brighton. But I don't know what happened. I don't know if I had a bad hash brown or what, but I had one that tasted so nasty. And it like tasted like I dude, it tasted it. It's it like tasted like a sm like when you smell like an old shoe or something. I was like, this is so freaking gross. And I like I ate part of it. Yeah. nate: Well, it's funny you say that, 'cause 'cause like it was after the hash browns that I just felt bad. Ryan Head: Dude, I wonder if they there was something wrong with them because and again I think, you know, that that cr the aid station there, because they do a great job. They always have air all four years I've run the race, but dude, I ate like half of it and I like, I ain't need any more of that crap. I'm like, I'll just eat my ju my gels and, you know, my my nerd clusters and just get the crap out of here because I'm like, I nate: No. Ryan Head: can't do that. Like, it was way too gross for me. There was something weird about that that hash brown that just did not set well with my stomach. nate: I know, because like the the next two hours, I think the next two hours were the worst two hours of the race for me because I was fighting nausea back and forth. And I and and the whole time it was like a mental battle of, I really want to stop right now. It would be so good to stop. But then I just kept I was like, I just gotta keep going, hoping that it would go away. And eventually I would say when we hit like Ants Knoll, it it kind of was back to my normal state, which was a little upset stomach, but not nausea. And so I'm like, Okay, good, this is good. I can keep going, like my race isn't over, I can I can do this. But as you know, that section is is kind of back to the whole mantra of Wasatch of you go up, it's really steep, it sucks. You're like, okay, here's the downhill, this is gonna be good. Nope, the downhill's almost worse than the uphill because it's so technical that it's like beating up on your quads and you're twisting your ankle and you're sliding. And so you're in this thing where you're just up and down, up and down, and it does not how the map looks. The and and even like I remember pacing you last year. I don't remember it being this bad. It was just it never ended. even when the sun came out and we caught up to you and Joe and we started hitting that section that that like right before the the plunge and the plunge Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: itself, like those sections sucked. Those were like Ryan Head: They were really bad. nate: it I I remember making a comment and I truly believe this. I'm like I told Joe, I said, okay, my best imagination of hell is This knowing that this will never end. Like honestly, knowing that you're gonna feel that and you're and it's never gonna end, and you're always gonna feel this the heat, you going downhill, the dust flying in your face, sliding, you know, you're we were just constantly sliding, falling down. I mean, it was just bad. The only thing that kept me going was like I knew it was coming next, and I knew the trail got better. I just don't remember it taking so long to get to that point. Ryan Head: Well, I just remember thinking too, just like what you were saying. I I remember thinking the whole time I'm like, dude, we just gotta get through this because once we get to that Jeep Road and we get to mile eighty eight and to the little Deer Creek aid station, life's nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: gonna get better. But it I I like I told you, man, I got angry. I was like so, so angry through like all of that 'cause I was like nate: Yeah. I know. Well, and well again, you know, you know my sister Amy. Like my worry with Amy was I was like, she's just gonna go dri go crazy going so slow because she's a fast runner. But she told me she's like, I had no idea it was this hard. She's like, This actually was really hard. I'm hurting, I'm sore, like I'm tired. and and we're going like at some points, like, you know, going through the plunge, what were we going? Like 30 minute miles. I mean, we were going slow. Ryan Head: Dude. Yeah. nate: And then we picked up the pace when we hit better sections, but like it just beat you up. Ryan Head: Yeah. Well and the funny thing was I kept thinking to myself, I'm like, Amy's probably gonna think I'm like the worst human being ever because I'm over there swearing and cussing and like cr like getting beyond angry. And like it it's funny, we I hope Amy doesn't kill me for saying this. I don't even know if she'll listen to this episode, but like me and my wife and my family, we have this like mantra that Amy's like the nicest person that you'll ever meet in life. Like she you you she is miss positive. She's always like wouldn't say a mean thing about a single person, maybe you disagree or disagree you know agree or disagree but she is so positive we all like man Amy is the nicest person you know and I'm like over there I'm like she probably thinks I'm like the devil like she probably thinks I'm a horrible because I'm cussing. I'm like I'm like this is bullshit and like this is the son of you know son of a being you know trail and I'm like dude I'm just thinking to myself like I'm like Amy probably heard that and I'm like I don't care this is my race. I I nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: don't care at this point but yeah I just remember thinking like she probably is like you are horrible human being, but I was like, maybe she'll understand that like after eighty five, eighty-six miles, whatever we're at, you know, maybe we get a little bit of grace with with all this craziness. So that's awesome, dude. Well nate: Yeah. No, it was it was fun having Amy with me 'cause 'cause yeah, you're like you s like you said, she's really positive. she's just there to help with whatever. It was just fun kind of catching up and having conversations and then it was fun catching up to you guys and and you know, she got to meet Joe, she gotta talk more with you. It was just fun Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: hanging out, so Ryan Head: It was and it was fun because she brings such a she's so positive and and it's fun to just have her there and and I was like it's nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: cool to have, you know, I mean, I know I know a few of your siblings, but it's just really cool to to have her there. And you know, I s I've had her on the podcast. I've she I coached her to Mount Charleston and she's a fun person and I think super, super positive about her and and Chaz. I think they're just a great family and all their kids are amazing. So well cool dude. Take us to the take us from there to the finish line, dude. How did it how did Yeah. nate: Yeah, it was I mean, it was just just get through it. That's all it was. It's just get through it. And it was getting hot, like you like you said. I mean it was bad. What was it, ninety degrees? Hotter than ninety degrees. the only saving grace was there's certain parts that had that breeze that were hitting us, but other than that, like it was bad and just dusty and w just kind of kept going. And so I I think it it was kinda interesting because like we were with you for a little while. Then you picked up a few other pacers at the top of the wall and and then me and Amy kind of went ahead for a minute, then you guys caught us and so it was kind of back and forth. But in my mind, I'm just like, at this point, I don't care. I just want to keep going. I wanna go as fast as I can. I just want to get over get this over with and be done with it because it it was hurting. I could feel some major blisters on the bottom of my feet, I could feel a bad one on my heel. which is weird because in bear I didn't get any blisters, but I could feel my toes were hurting, my my ankle was kind of starting to give out, my knees were both killing me. I'm like, I just wanna be done. This is this is ridiculous. Plus I could tell my body was just not feeling very good. The heat was getting to me, my lungs weren't working that good. So, anyways, you know how it is. It's just it's just grind through it, push to the end. and I just remember going around those last bends and looking down at the people doing windsurfing and I'm like, what is wrong with us? What like why are we doing this? Those guys are having fun. They're cooling off in the water. They're actually like doing something exciting. They're jumping on waves. They're doing this. What is wrong with us? Why are we up here right in the sun, like crawling around in the dirt? We got bruises all over us. We got blisters. Like something must have happened to us that made us like this. So, but anyway, so I'm questioning my hobbies. But you know, then then as you get to the finish, it you you kind of just you you start to get a little bit emotional and you start just feeling gratitude. So that those were the emotions I started to feel. And, you know, I was grateful for Amy for sticking with me. Like I I had told her I was gonna be going a lot faster than I was. She was there with me all day, and so I was so grateful that to have her helping me. I was grateful for you having a great friend that got me through the night. a great coach. I mean, you're you coached me through it, plus you're you were my friend and where I was able to run half the race with you. So I was feeling grateful for that. And just just the fact that I was almost done, I think. So get to the finish line, see family, like it's great. You get to sit down and rest. And but then I don't know if this happens to you, but like either it was just my body. realized I was done or my brain realized I was done. I'm like sitting there with my boys and all of a sudden I just start losing it, start crying. Claire took a picture Ryan Head: Heck yeah. nate: of me with tears in my eyes. I'm like, man, I'm not crying because I hurt. I'm just crying because I for some reason I just felt so happy to be done and and was just grateful that I had the experience and was able to finish. And it it's like you you just get kind of emotional to where you s you look at the race directors and you're like, man, those guys are so awesome. you look at the people doing the A stations, you're like, those guys are so cool and you just start feeling that gratitude. So that was a really cool part, after finishing. Ryan Head: Yeah. Well, it was it was really special to be there and see you and it was funny 'cause as we were coming around the bend and you know, I kinda let you sneak ahead of me and and I remember my crew was like, Hey, are you gonna catch up to Nate and you guys go through the finish line together? And I was like, No, I want him to beat me and I want you to kind of have your moment in the sun and I wanted to make sure nate: Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: you got your pictures and your whole f family to see you and then I'm like, Then I'll come through after. I didn't care who won who or beat who. It didn't really matter to me. And you said the same thing. You're I don't care, and I said, Just nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: go, dude. And so I am I intend slowed down and I was like let him go through and I think he he got there two minutes before me whatever it's fine I don't care but nate: Yeah. Yep. Ryan Head: it was cool to see you go through that finish line I was kind of watching and I was just so proud of you and I was like yes like heck yeah and like I told you I said I and I always say this I'm like you know one thing I know about Nate is you know he's so stubborn he's as stubborn as I am like he'll get that finish no matter what But it was cool to just see you go through that and I was like, All right, I'm coming through now and you know, I was able to come through and, you know, celebrate and you know, with my family and you know, I it is cool. I mean, even after four times, just like what you said, I got emotional and I'm sobbing seeing my wife and my kids and you know, just so grateful to my crew and I'm telling them thank you so much. I'm like, You guys helped me get this, like it's all you guys and you know, I can't do this without you and you know, then come through the finish line and shake John's hand again and you know, as I said before just you know tell him I'm like told you I'd see you the finish line and he's like you're right and anyways nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: it's just beautiful like you said and it it was cool it was a special moment it was fun to be there to see you do it and I'm just proud of you dude you did something really really hard like you know like you said you know you and you've perfectly ex you know talked about here is Wasuch is not an easy race like people need to realize that I I've said it now a thousand times and I'll say it a thousand more like Wasuch is really hard and it it It kicks the crap out of you, and then it's like, okay, now you still have to do you know 10 more thousand feet of vert, and you're just like, dude, nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: like I I'm dying here. Like, can I get a break? And you know, there's a reason why you know there's a 40 per 40% DNF rate, because it's not easy, it's not meant to be easy, and it really it requires a lot of you, and yeah, it may it may not be the most technical, yes, it may not be the highest vert, but the accumulation of the heat, the incessant, you know, no consistency. with up and downs and you know then the technical and elevation it it makes it one of the hardest I think in the northern in North America. It's just my humble opinion. I I haven't done other races. I'm gonna I I hope to one day. But It makes it a very difficult race. There's again, why there's a forty percent DNF rate. It's not a it's not an easy race. I mean, I I've said and now you can probably speak to it too. I think Bear is an easier race than Wasatch. I think nate: yeah. Ryan Head: it's more it it is more friendly to you know, someone who won who's getting into Mountain Ultras. it's it's a more friendly race. So that's awesome. Well, one thing I had to give you grief about was at the very end, as we add my gun to the finish line and I come sit and sit next to him, everyone's Do want to sit next to Nate? And was like, Yeah, of course. And I pop up my chair and his dad's over there cleaning his feet. And I was like, what nate: Yeah. Ryan Head: the freak, dude? And I think everybody was wondering why we were like, we had this like weird thing about it, but it's just funny because Jenny's really cool. For some reason, she'll clean my feet after a race, and it's always just super nice of her. And so Nate's over getting his feet cleaned. I'm like, what the freak, man? Like I want my feet cleaned. nate: I know. I know. Well well because I I made fun of you a couple of times, like, what what's the deal? Like you got all these all these people helping you out, washing your feet, giving you massages, changing your socks. Like what is this what is this obsession with Ryan head? And so I'm like giving him grief about that. And then at the finish line I got people helping me out too. So I I don't know where my dad how he thought of that, but I'm like, man, that felt so good just being able to stick my feet in Ryan Head: Doesn't it? nate: ice water. was amazing. So kudos to to him for coming up with that idea. But yeah. It's and and Ryan Head: Yeah. Well, okay. nate: that was one of the reasons why I'm like I I told Amy I'm like, should I wait and should r Ryan I go through together? Or should I just like should I let him go first and then I go second? Like what should I do? Because we were right there together and but and she's like, I don't know, you just do whatever you want. But then I'm like, well, I I feel weird running through at the same time as as Ryan because like he's got all these people here with him supporting him. I'm like, they're here for Ryan. They're not here for me. Like why am I gonna run through with all these all these other people? Yeah, they're my friends, like, but they're my friends through Ryan. And and I I don't want to like be like latching onto that. I want to kind of do my own thing. So I was like, whether I go first or whether I go second, like it's one of those things that's so stupid. It doesn't even matter. But you're you get in your head at that point in the race Ryan Head: Doesn't yeah. nate: and you're like you know, overthinking everything probably. Ryan Head: Yeah, it and like you said, it doesn't matter. And that's why I was like, dude, just go. Like I I I finished. This is my fourth finish for Wastach. Like, I don't care. It doesn't matter. I'm just grateful I finished. I don't didn't matter to me what my time was. I'm just like, yeah, I'm just happy to happy to be here and get another one done. So nate: Yep. Ryan Head: well, cool, dude. Again, I mean the biggest thing I'd say from all this, you know, and you know, you said this to me years ago when I finished Wastach the first time, so now it's my turn to say to you is, you know, dude, you earned this. You did this because you put the work in. you were willing to do the hard things. You would do these runs in the heat and kick the crap out of yourself. You did these 30 mile runs. You did Skyline. You did, you know, Brighten or lamps to Brighten and freaking lightning and thunder. you know, to those who are willing to dream and and do the crazy things, you get you get to you get rewarded with the experiences. And I think that's the beautiful thing about ultra running is you did the work. You deserve to reap the rewards from that. And it was just cool to see you do that. and to be a part of it and to, you know, for more lack of a better term, I spent more than like sixty percent of the race with you between the start of the race and then the last fifty three miles of it. So it was it was quite quite a fun experience and I really enjoyed it. You know, the only thing that would have been better is if, you know, all the friends that we had, you know, signed up and started the race with if all of them could have got the finish. And I take nothing away from them because I it's a tough race and, you know, I I I hope the best. I hope all of them can come back and give it another go. And I know they they will. A lot of them have told me that but It is a tough race. It's it's hard. It is what it is. Wasatch is is tough, but it was cool to see you on your first try go out there and get a good finish. I mean, 34 hours is not a golden hour finish. I mean, that's still a a decent finish. So congrats again, dude. Well deserved. And really cool to see you do that. nate: Thanks, man. No, it was it was good. Like I think if you had told me the day before that I was gonna get thirty-four, almost thirty-five hours, I would have felt disappointed because Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: I wanted a faster time and I felt like I was capable of a faster time. But at this point, like having gone through it, I'm I couldn't be prouder of that time that I got of just finishing that race and and doing it. y you know, I I say anybody who finishes that race in thirty-six hours. Ryan Head: Yeah. nate: deserves deserves that belt buckle and deserves to be proud of the race that they ran because it is not easy. And you know, the fact that you've done it four years in a row is actually incredible, I think. So kudos to you for continuing to do it over and over consistently. Ryan Head: Yeah, thanks, dude. I appreciate that. That's kind of you. So well cool. We'll we'll move to wrap up here. couple last questions I'll throw at you. What would you say to someone who wants to do Wasatch for the first time in 2027? what what what one bit of advice would you give them as they prepare for this? What would you tell them to do, or to be or whatever, as you prepare to as they prepare to go after WallSetch for the first time? nate: I would say if you can and if you're local, train on the course. Like go find the tough sections, run get used to do in in heat, do them in weather, like do on tired legs and and just get used to that course because you know it's it's hard to prepare yourself for it unless you're actually on the course itself. Ryan Head: Nice. No, I think that's super smart, man. Super, super smart. Yeah, spend as much time as you can on the course. It's gonna give you a competitive advantage every time. Like it's gonna make you feel like, okay, I know what's coming and I can I can attack this. So I love it. I love it. So, okay, last question. Do you really like Enya as much as you say you do? Did you listen to Enya on Wasatch? nate: I knew this was gonna come up. I was thinking about just starting the interview with this. Like let's just let's just address the white elephant in the room. I I like Enya. I do, I like Enya. And I think I think your listeners Ryan Head: Ha ha nate: should know, you know, you guys think of Ryan as as like this super inclusive person. Well, that's great, he is, but when it comes to music, he's not. Like he he is he's a bully. Ryan is a music bully. Ryan Head: That's awesome. I'm dying over here. nate: No, I I I like Enya. I like I didn't listen to any of this race. I mean, I had Ryan Head: Nice. nate: her as one of the artists downloaded because I sometimes I like to have something super calming and sometimes I'm just in the mood and she is like more than anybody else, like she can her voice can calm me down. But for me, I like to have diversity. So like my favorite stuff's classic rock. I love alternative, I love Ryan Head: Thank you. nate: I I love having just like a a variety of different things. Some stuff that's that's a little bit heavier and stuff when I'm in the mood. But no, I I think Enya's super talented and and if you don't listen to her music you're missing out. Like that's all I can say. Ryan Head: That's awesome. That's awesome. We're reigniting the the flames of this one, so nate: Ha ha ha Ryan Head: I'm sure more to come on this on this story. So that's awesome. Well, dude, thanks for coming on. Thanks for giving us a good recap of your Wasitch 100 experience. I think it's was awesome. Like I said, I'm grateful that I got to spend so many miles with you. It was a good experience. I think we both learned a lot. got to share more miles. And, you know, the one thing I'll always say is I'm just grateful for your friendship. it's been fun to have so many fun running adventures with you. And, you know, as I always say to everybody, is I'm like, man. Find yourself a good friend like you, like Jacob, like Joe, like Zach, like Cody, like, you know, I can keep going. Tim, you name it. There's so many good people. Find good friends like that you can share miles with. And not only will the miles fly by, but you'll make memories you'll never forget. And I think at the end of this life, and even in the next one, we'll probably think back and be grateful for those memories. So I just appreciate you, man. Appreciate your friendship. And I'm grateful that we got to share a lot of wasat together this year. It was really fun. nate: Yeah, thanks Ryan. I I like a hundred percent feel feel the same way about you. I was I was thinking about it. I'm like, you know, you didn't get me into running. I I didn't know you that well when I started, but you sure as heck like kept me in in running and pushed me and got me motivated to try new things and and to push myself and like you are the number one motivator that's that's kept me going and you know, you coached me for both Bear and Wasatch. So I'm super grateful for all your help in in doing that and and more than anything, your friendship. Cause that that is what makes running fun is for me is is having the friendships. Like it's not just the accomplishments, it's not just the experiences, like it's hanging out and having a good time and and you know making new friends. And so I I appreciate that and it's it's been a lot of fun. So we just gotta keep it going. I the only problem is I feel FOMO of missing out on bear while you guys are out there having fun. I'm gonna be sitting here. I might have to see if I can figure out a way to make it up there and and meet you at one of the aid stations or something. We'll see Ryan Head: Dude, it'd be so cool to see you at one of the eight stations. Dude, I'd love to see ya. So yeah, keep in touch with Jenny and Cody and and I'm sure they could sync up with you. So anyways, well cool dude. Well we'll wrap up this nate: Okay. Ryan Head: episode. Thanks again for coming on and thanks man. nate: Thanks for having ya having me. See ya. Coach Ryan Head: Hey runner, thanks for hanging out with me today on Reimagine Running. I'm grateful you're here and a part of this great podcast. I just want to remind you, if you ever feel stuck and unsure or just want someone in your corner, I do offer coaching for runners at any distance, whether you're starting out with the 5K or you're chasing some crazy big goals and dreams like the marathon or the 100 miler, I'd love to help you. Please reach out and I'd be happy to set up a time to go over options and plans and goals with you. Well, until next time. Take care of yourself, trust the process, stay disciplined and keep chasing that Y.