Latest / 1 to 100 / E30: Building a Marketplace with Laura Lalonde

Transcript

E30: Building a Marketplace with Laura Lalonde · 1 to 100

0:00
Laura, just real quick. Are you in Canada?
0:03
I am, yeah. I'm in Canada, I'm in Montreal
0:05
in my she shed small office space.
0:10
But thank you guys for having me.
0:12
Really cool to talk to you. I've listened to a few episodes.
0:17
Always nice to talk to other founders that are at similar
0:21
stages. I feel like a lot of podcasts
0:23
like highlight obviously people much later on in the journey,
0:27
but the actual interesting part is when you're in the middle of
0:31
it, so yeah. Wait wait wait wait, back up,
0:35
back up. I heard she shed and I want to
0:37
know what this is. Yeah, she shed is it's totally a
0:42
real thing. No, but I rent a like a little
0:46
office space. It's something I did a couple
0:49
months ago. I don't know about you guys, but
0:51
just building grid bank for the past couple years, I was working
0:55
from home. I just like refused to get
0:57
myself an office space for whatever reason, and it has just
1:01
completely changed my life, having an office outside of your
1:07
house. So yeah, just got a little space
1:10
here and it's really lovely. I have a little aroma diffuser,
1:14
a little chair. We're living.
1:17
Is is Shisha a nickname or is it?
1:19
Actually still on. I I just want clarification of
1:23
whether this is a nickname or a real thing.
1:25
Yeah. My wife wants a shishad so it's
1:28
real thing. It's like the it's like the the
1:30
woman's version of a man cave. Yeah.
1:32
OK, so it's a nickname. Yes.
1:34
It's not a brand. OK, OK.
1:35
No, OK, we. Got it.
1:41
It does not. We can move on.
1:43
No, no. No no no, let's stay on Shishad.
1:45
This does not have the same ring to it as Man Cave.
1:48
I think it needs a new nickname. I think it's good.
1:53
I think it's good. I think it eats.
1:55
It's great. Works, Yeah.
2:00
So let's talk about Gridbank. I saw on your site like the the
2:05
H1 is you have all the content you need.
2:07
We're actually working with someone who's building with the
2:10
API right now and that's their main slogan as well their their
2:15
H1. What problem does Gridbank solve
2:19
and how does this like address it?
2:22
Yeah. I guess I can go into the story
2:25
of like building it. I started Good Bank is my first
2:30
company. So I'm not someone that has
2:34
tried or thought about really explicitly being an entrepreneur
2:39
that much. Like I always knew I would do
2:41
something but I didn't really know what it was.
2:45
But then of course looking back, like I always started lemonade
2:47
stands and stuff. So you know, that's like a
2:50
classic thing. So maybe I'm lying, but
2:53
basically I was working in gaming, in the gaming industry
2:56
in Montreal, which is pretty big.
2:58
And I was a creative director and I had like 6 or so
3:02
designers. Like I was in charge of creative
3:04
production basically. And it was performance marketing
3:08
before performance marketing was the thing that we all know that
3:12
it is now. So when I started there, we were
3:18
burning maybe an ad spend like a few $1,000,000 a month.
3:22
The spend was really, really high.
3:24
And it was my job to make as many videos as possible.
3:28
We were driving towards app downloads.
3:30
So I had to generate hundreds of different ad iterations every
3:34
month with my team. And there were no like ways or
3:39
tips or anything of doing that yet.
3:41
So we looked around like very few companies were producing at
3:44
that scale. Voodoo was one of them, another
3:47
gaming company that we looked at a lot.
3:49
I think what's it called? Calm.
3:55
Calm was doing a lot. The Calm and Headspace was doing
3:58
a lot of performance marketing, but it wasn't really in the
4:00
zeitgeist. So I had over a couple years
4:04
there, I was gathering a lot of data worldwide on what was
4:08
performing the best in terms of ads, like hundreds of millions
4:12
of dollars later. And there was one kind of common
4:15
thread between every country, every Geo, every language, like
4:21
a style that really stood out before, like a head of
4:24
everything else. And that was ads that looked
4:26
like they were shot on a phone. And that seems obvious to us
4:30
now, but back then it was like, oh, crazy.
4:34
So with all of that data, one day I was just sitting at my
4:39
desk and I was every month, like really struggling to hit this ad
4:42
count of like hundreds of different variations and stuff.
4:45
And I went and I was like, where the hell am I going to get a lot
4:50
of phone shot video to be able to pump these out as quickly as
4:55
I can to get my promotion? And then, yeah, I was just
5:01
sitting there at my desk. I remember I thought, well,
5:05
everyone in the world has a phone and everyone in the world
5:09
has videos on that phone. And like in that moment, my
5:15
blood like ran cold. Like I could not believe that
5:19
nobody had captured that asset class before that.
5:23
There was just like trillions and trillions of like, I don't
5:27
want to call it like dry powder, but just dry assets like video
5:31
data and all of that sitting on people's phones, like everyone.
5:35
And I got really scared and I like went for a walk because I
5:40
knew in that moment it was like gripping me by the throat.
5:42
I was like, shit, I have to build this company like this is
5:46
I got to do this. This is the thing that I have to
5:49
do, which was such a blessing to be so sure of something all at
5:52
once. And the idea hasn't really
5:55
changed since then. So all the content you need is
6:00
like, that's what I would have given anything to see at that
6:04
point when I was struggling to make a ton of ads was like any
6:07
H1 that was like, all of a sudden you have all the content
6:10
you need. I wrote that line was my dad
6:12
actually, we were sitting on the couch in the basement of his
6:16
cottage and we were like, what's the feeling when like you just
6:21
have a, you finally find something that really helps you
6:24
out? And we were workshopping.
6:25
So credit where credit is due, Dad, we came up with that line.
6:30
It really stuck. We tested a few lines.
6:33
People really liked that one. And it's become kind of the H1
6:36
that I just refused to change. From the man cave to the She
6:40
Shad. Amen.
6:44
Good stuff. I actually think I actually
6:46
think that people change their H1 way too soon.
6:49
For sure. And like, I still think that if
6:51
we had our first H1, it would probably perform better.
6:55
Well. It was like Pinterest for ads or
6:58
something. Yeah, like.
7:00
And it was just like, I still think if I changed our like,
7:03
even though we do like a lot more, I feel like if that was
7:06
our H1, it would be, it would still be better.
7:10
But I've heard this from like a lot of people too.
7:13
It's like, oh, like we like actually coming up with a great
7:15
H1. Like the more stuff you do, the
7:17
least meaningful your H1 becomes.
7:19
But your H1 is also like doesn't lose any of its importance.
7:22
So it's like you go to like even like Salesforce probably or
7:26
something and like look at their H1 like this means nothing to
7:29
nobody. But I I think keeping like a
7:33
think keeping the first to H1 is usually like a good a good bet.
7:37
You know, in this space, I think it's so important, especially
7:40
for like sales LED businesses, because eventually you've got to
7:44
get the message across. What is it that this product
7:47
solves and and people only have a certain amount of time to like
7:51
decide whether like this is the product for them, right?
7:55
Some people have heard, like they're listening to this
7:57
podcast right now. They heard your story and they
8:00
went grid bank is for me. But some people like, you know,
8:02
halfway through that, like, I don't get it, right.
8:06
So you've got like finite time to get across what it is that
8:10
you're solving for that person. The amount of SAS I've seen out
8:13
there that like just totally fails to capture that attention
8:16
and turn it into like the intent to solve that problem to to use
8:20
the product. It's it's so big and I think
8:24
that's why they don't believe in marketing, because their website
8:26
doesn't do any marketing. It doesn't capture that intent,
8:29
right? It's like this is a product and
8:31
it does the job pretty well, but like the site doesn't illuminate
8:35
what the product actually is. Right.
8:37
Yeah, totally. I think like it's like a Steve
8:40
Jobs code or whatever, but very much something that I think
8:43
about a lot is innovation is saying no to 1000 things.
8:46
That's like a core pillar. I feel like of grid bank is just
8:51
like ruthless discipline on stay on one line.
8:56
Like the amount of times that people have asked us to add like
8:59
gig economy stuff to our app. Like what if people could make
9:02
custom requests or hire creator to do something on the app?
9:06
Wouldn't that be the natural evolution?
9:09
And it's like, no or what about photos?
9:12
Why don't you know, like just stay on the initial line?
9:17
It's something that I really liked about foreplay as well,
9:19
because when I was working at this job, I was using Sensor
9:21
Tower a lot, which was quite gate kept and cost way too much.
9:26
I think it's like $50,000 a year when we were working at the
9:28
previous company and I would have killed for foreplay like
9:31
that would have made so that that would I would have logged
9:34
in every single day to check. So I when I saw it, I was like,
9:39
OK, thank God someone's building this and keeping the purity of
9:44
it as well. I know you guys have other
9:45
products, but the purity I think of the initial idea is really
9:48
strong. Thank you.
9:51
You know, what's actually pretty crazy is we mean you say like
9:55
login every single day. I thought I saw like a little
9:58
bit of a moment to brag. So we were recently doing this
10:01
like big like analysis on like how many actual assets are
10:05
served to like foreplay users every single day because we're
10:10
like deciding on like what things have been cold storage
10:12
with things to keep in like primary storage and things like
10:14
that. And within the 1st 14 hours, it
10:17
was over 2 million assets of like people saw like 2 million
10:23
in like and I was like, whoa, people like actually, because
10:25
sometimes you, I feel like you always forget about like how
10:28
many people are just like in your app all the time.
10:30
And then we have like an app where like we're like Jeremiah,
10:33
like people probably the more they go into stamp, like the
10:35
worse thing they they almost never want to go into it versus
10:39
like for us, it's like, yeah, people are always going in and
10:42
stuff like that. And so yeah, no, it's, it's, it
10:46
actually is kind of like crazy. Like I think like how like just
10:53
like how much usage our app gets on a day-to-day basis.
10:55
Just like yeah, I I completely forgot about it.
10:59
So Zach, in that context, I assume like one person.
11:03
I mean, I'm sure some people go and just look at a couple of
11:05
things, but you might have somebody that looks at hundreds
11:07
of assets on a single setting. Right.
11:09
Yeah, we, we have, we have people that use foreplay.
11:14
They're definitely a niche of people that aren't in
11:19
advertising professionally. They just like ads like like
11:23
it's a, it's a very, it's a very small number of people, but
11:27
there's literally people like, I'm just like really into ads
11:30
like like, and I've seen the chats in intercom, which is like
11:33
wow. What do you think that is?
11:41
That's that's like really compelling.
11:43
I don't know, like some like some sort of like, I don't know,
11:48
capitalistic kink or something like.
11:51
Mad Men watchers. Yeah, like, but like, yeah, but
11:56
we don't even have like, I can understand like the really
11:58
loving, like Super Bowl commercials, but like really
12:00
unders, like really loving UGC is like pretty weird.
12:02
I mean, to be fair though, you can find some like pretty crazy
12:05
stuff like inside of foreplay. We have like some Black Hat
12:08
users and stuff like that. So even just like seeing what
12:10
people can get past like Facebook guidelines is like, I
12:15
guess, entertaining. I think it's autism.
12:18
I think it's autism for sure. It's it's like when people
12:21
listen to like theme park music on Spotify or they use YouTube
12:25
Music. That's yeah, the Venn diagram
12:29
is. Music as a whole is a tell.
12:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So how did you go from wanting
12:37
this to like MVP or like what? I also have no idea like how
12:41
long you guys have been around. So love to see you to hear like
12:43
from that moment of like having the idea up until now.
12:46
What was that kind of like journey like?
12:48
Yeah. So when I thought of the idea, I
12:50
was like, I sat on it for a few months.
12:55
Actually, I was kind of waiting to see because it's a really
12:58
scary thing to do. Like starting, I had a pretty
13:01
good career at a young age of my early 20s.
13:06
You know, my dad was an entrepreneur.
13:08
He was very protective of me early on.
13:11
My grandpa as well. I mean, like my grandpa ran A-Z
13:15
Rentals on Monkland and, and DG in Montreal.
13:19
So like kind of like small business.
13:22
I come from a line of like small business owners basically.
13:24
So my family was really protective.
13:28
Like they didn't really want me to kind of make the jump.
13:30
And I was really young. So I was taking that advice.
13:32
But I sat on it for a while and I started to see the demand
13:36
happening on Twitter at the time from people in the industry.
13:42
People were were articulating something around this idea that
13:47
was that they needed a lot more video and they needed it to look
13:50
really authentic. And eventually I just couldn't
13:53
ignore it anymore. I thought to myself, if I wake
13:58
up tomorrow and somebody has built this, how gutted am I
14:06
going to be? And I was like, yeah, I'm going
14:09
to kill myself. Like if I log on to Twitter
14:11
tomorrow and somebody has built this idea, like, I'm going to
14:13
lose my shit. Like this is not good at all.
14:16
So at that point I decided like it's time to it's time to do it
14:20
because I felt like once you think about the idea, like, and
14:23
maybe this isn't true because we don't really have any direct
14:26
competitors yet, but once you like think the idea, it's out in
14:33
the ether or whatever. So I was scared that like some
14:37
vibe was going to get picked up and someone was going to grab it
14:40
before me. So quit my job, did it.
14:45
I invested $150,000 of my own money to build it because I
14:49
didn't want to rely on anybody else basically to get it done.
14:56
I just wanted to get it done quickly.
14:58
That didn't work. That's not enough money to build
15:01
to build a startup. So then I ended up just like
15:06
calling my friends and family. I got 35 of my friends and
15:11
family members and some larger Angel tickets.
15:13
But basically like a lot of my friends and family members gave
15:17
me 1000 bucks like I was just pounding the phones.
15:20
And so now I have like a long list of just like my friends who
15:23
my best friends or whatever that kind of just gave me what they
15:26
could and they were like, I go for it.
15:28
Like no one actually really thought that it would go as far
15:32
as it has, which is great. So we closed that and then we
15:38
launched with a small friends and family around and then we
15:41
launched in April of 2023. So it's been just over 2 years.
15:46
The most difficult part is that I'm not a technical founder and
15:53
this product is a three product suite like Grid Bank is an app.
15:58
It is an internal moderation system, which is our actual
16:01
company IP and where we do a lot of our research on video and
16:06
stuff. We have a research arm as well,
16:08
which I really, really love. And there's the website as well
16:12
with, you know, it's not like deep tech, but you know, you're
16:16
loading a lot of videos all the time.
16:18
That's hard on a website. There's an app, you have to
16:22
figure out how to pay people. You have to figure out how much
16:25
you're going to pay people. That was kind of the most
16:27
difficult part of building it at the beginning was what's a phone
16:32
video worth? I don't know, like no one had
16:37
ever figured this out yet. And then how much like what's
16:40
the willingness to pay and how can we drive up willingness to
16:43
pay on the other end of that? So the most difficult part was
16:46
actually defining the marketplace dynamics of what
16:49
people were willing to accept and willing to pay for on both
16:51
ends. And then we launched and yeah,
16:55
that was the process. But hiring a bunch of
16:59
contractors to build the tech for the first six months after
17:05
I'd quit was a shit show. And I burned all my money doing
17:09
it and then had to go get more. It was like a really hard and
17:13
fast lesson to learn. I think now a lot of that
17:18
probably can be mitigated by, I don't want to say like vibe
17:23
coding, but like you can get to MVP faster than what I was able
17:29
to pull off just even a few years ago.
17:32
So that was definitely the most difficult part of it, but you
17:38
just push through. I had a lot of friends that
17:41
advised me that looked at stuff that look stuff over when I
17:45
didn't really understand advisors and investors as well.
17:50
We're also super really game to to help out there and that's how
17:53
that's how we got it off the ground.
17:56
Cool how how long did it take you from when you like put the
18:00
150 end of your personal money to make the first dollar at
18:04
grade bank? I think 6 months, 6 to 8 months,
18:07
yeah. How are you capitalized at this
18:12
point? Is it?
18:14
Yeah. What?
18:14
Like what does that look like now?
18:17
We've been profitable. So we basically spent that
18:20
family and friends around to continue building the product
18:22
and then we've been profitable and growing since then.
18:28
Yeah, it's just kind of, it's good.
18:31
We're trying to grow like within our cash flow, which is
18:38
obviously a little bit more constrained and more difficult
18:41
than raising VC for example. But really what matters is kind
18:49
of getting the engine to keep going, like getting people the
18:51
videos that they need and telling creators what videos
18:54
people need so that it just kind of takes care of itself.
18:57
And we're seeing a lot of that. When people get certain
19:01
downloads of a certain type of video, they'll upload more of
19:05
that video and that creates just the funnel feeding itself.
19:10
So eventually it all self optimizes into like the perfect
19:14
dynamic everyday video library because we get tons of new
19:19
videos everyday. You know what's interesting on
19:22
the topic of what do you price? A video, you know, a phone shop
19:28
video. It seems like with this massive
19:31
wave of demand for AI, people are valuing AI generated UGC
19:35
very highly. They're willing to spend
19:37
hundreds of dollars a month and hundreds of dollars on
19:40
additional credits or thousands of dollars on credits to get
19:43
something that feels fake at some point, eventually feels
19:46
fake. And don't get me wrong, you'll
19:47
catch up and they'll be very realistic and it'll be great.
19:51
But part of that, I guess demand is for AI as a whole.
19:56
It gets to benefit from that. And then part of that demand is
19:59
being an early adopter and seeing where it's going.
20:02
But I wonder if there's any way to piggyback on that demand.
20:06
Obviously your product isn't AI, but in comparison to AI,
20:09
especially shoddy AI. You know, that the kind of AI
20:13
that people have been trying to, you know, make a product for a
20:15
while in terms of AI generated UTC or vertical videos, phone
20:21
shop videos, Yeah. I I mean, for me, the easiest
20:25
sell to take me from interested in AI over to interested in grid
20:28
bank is a side by side comparison.
20:31
This is what Google VO3 or, you know, 2.5 Flash made.
20:36
And it's goofy and it's unrealistic and it's not very
20:38
good. And for a long time it was just
20:40
landscape, but now they're doing the whole vertical thing.
20:43
And then this is what grid bank could get you, right?
20:45
Yeah, I'm like, not anti AI, I'm anti people not getting paid for
20:54
stuff. Like that's kind of what puts a
20:56
sour taste in my mouth about because the like AI is going to
20:59
advance and like I get punked by videos all the time, but I don't
21:06
really like mind AI in general. That's not a problem.
21:09
It's just like the fact that there isn't like a Ledger of
21:12
paying people for the stuff that they make and the fact that like
21:16
it's built off things that are stolen is I think what puts the
21:19
sour taste in my mouth because I feel like that's, you know, not
21:23
fair or whatever it is. But I mean honestly, like the
21:29
first time Sora came out I was really scared.
21:35
I was like why the hell would someone like I was like I'm
21:42
screwed. Like if you can just generate an
21:44
entire library, like why would grid bank even exist?
21:49
I'm really glad I didn't quit at that point because if I don't
21:56
know, I don't like, I have the instincts or hypotheses about
21:59
why we haven't crumbled yet on the user side, but we've only
22:06
seen our business grow in the wake of these advances.
22:12
It's almost like clockwork. Like every time a new model
22:15
comes out, we have like a growth spurt.
22:21
I have some hypothesis about what that might be #1 I don't
22:26
think a lot of people like to prompt.
22:31
I think the like browsing is actually a really lovely
22:34
experience for people. So people spend a lot of time on
22:37
grid bank just looking at stuff because they don't want to start
22:40
from zero. So they like kind of getting the
22:43
inspiration and looking for stuff and actually being told
22:46
what's good instead of having to invent it from scratch.
22:50
Another thing is a lot of our clients are advertising
22:52
agencies. So when they go to their clients
22:56
with AI generated content or AI generated work, why would the
23:02
client want their agency to be giving them AI generated work
23:09
like then the client like why are they paying the agency?
23:12
So it's a reputation thing as well, like selling people AI
23:16
generated stuff or reports. I know Deloitte did the, OR was
23:21
it Deloitte that did the report in Australia and found a lot of
23:24
like misinformation and they had to anyway, I have to Fact Check
23:27
that. But it when people get real
23:32
videos or when the clients get real videos, they get really
23:34
impressed because they, they're like, how did you guys get all
23:37
this stuff? How are you able to make all of
23:38
these iterations without, you know, using AI?
23:42
And then they're like, man, don't worry about it.
23:43
Like we have a secret kind of plug, if you will.
23:50
And then, you know, the, the, the video feed feeds itself back
23:58
to our creators and back into our library dynamically.
24:01
So over time, if you see more prompts and if you see more
24:05
searches and more downloads on our website, our creators get
24:09
wind of that and then they feed it back.
24:12
So over time, it's almost like you're working on an automated
24:15
delivery system of real stuff. I think a lot of those things
24:20
together kind of make it so that when the customer comes to our
24:23
website, it's like, yeah, all of a sudden you have all the
24:26
content you need. Like there's nothing.
24:27
There's no work you have to do. It's OK.
24:29
Like everyone here is having fun.
24:32
No one's going to see something that was messed up in your video
24:36
in the corner, and then it's going to wreck your reputation
24:39
as being able to deliver quality work.
24:42
People are getting paid for the videos that they're putting on.
24:45
So I think just in general, I like to keep good vibes in the
24:48
business across the board. And I think that it's it's just
24:51
like a win, win for everybody. I love that it's more
24:56
convenient, there's less risk, the product's better.
25:01
Yeah, Why wouldn't you use it? What do you think about like
25:06
what one of the conversations that's happening right now is
25:11
whether things like ads in particular, or basically any
25:16
content created with AI, whether that's going to need to be
25:18
tagged as AI in the future. How do you think about that?
25:23
And because I can see there's a, there's potentially a world in
25:26
which all these problems we see in AI generated content today
25:29
kind of goes away. It's probably a ways out still.
25:32
But in that context, there is less the quality issue of AI
25:38
becomes less of a question mark. So I'm curious how you think
25:41
about the like where we might be going from a regulatory
25:46
standpoint on some of these things?
25:50
Yeah, so there's the there's the regulations in Europe and then
25:52
there's I believe that state by state is going to be dealt with
25:55
in the US as well. But on a macro scale, like I'm
25:59
not, again, like I'm not against using AI, but I think there are
26:02
a couple of concepts that I can apply from just like
26:05
communication studies and media studies in general that will
26:09
help illuminate this that I tend to lean on when I think about
26:13
this stuff. When you're watching there,
26:18
there's this concept in communication and media studies
26:21
and like media philosophy or whatever called the suspension
26:23
of disbelief. The suspension of disbelief is
26:27
what we all agree to when we're watching an animated movie or
26:32
when we're watching a movie at all, that is a fictional story.
26:36
Or when I am, you know, picking up a stuffed animal and like,
26:40
giving it a little voice, for example.
26:42
I'm engaging in what's called a suspension of disbelief that
26:46
this thing isn't real. So for a second, I'm choosing to
26:50
put aside like my logic, basically, I think the taste in
26:56
people's mouth that isn't great is that suspension of disbelief
27:03
is something that you have to consent to as a media watcher.
27:07
And so the feeling of being duped or the feeling of seeing
27:11
bunnies on a trampoline or whatever, then going back after
27:15
and realizing that it was fake, that's why it makes people sad
27:21
because they didn't consent. There's not an informed consent
27:24
to the concept of the suspension of disbelief that is occurring
27:28
in this relationship between the viewer and the actual media
27:30
piece itself. I don't like to like when I see
27:38
a bad feeling in a product, in a nature of a product, when I see
27:44
that people wince or are sad about an outcome of something
27:49
that they're watching, to me, it's a red flag about the object
27:54
itself. Like I don't want to engage in
27:57
things that aren't that that make people sad at any point in
28:01
the process. Like Grid Bank is a is a product
28:04
that helps people when they really need videos and they need
28:09
something to like come in clutch because they have a deadline for
28:12
a client and they're need to get like a quality piece of workout.
28:15
It's good for creators because they make money because they're
28:17
not doing any. It's a completely passive income
28:20
experience and they're just happy to kind of get rewarded
28:22
for it. So regarding regulations, it can
28:27
help to put, of course, to tell people that, you know, something
28:30
is AI generated because now we're entering into the
28:33
consented suspension of disbelief relationship, which is
28:36
why I believe that there's nothing that's actually wrong
28:39
with inherently like AI generated media in and of
28:42
itself. Nothing's wrong with making
28:44
things up as long as we're engaging in the consented
28:48
suspension of disbelief concept. That's how I think about it.
28:52
Long winded, sorry guys. Damn.
28:54
No, no, no. I think this maps onto the ECOM
28:56
world perfectly because like, you know, if a customer feels
29:00
duped by an ad that they saw, you know, are they just duped by
29:03
the content or is the product not even real, right.
29:07
It totally. Applies to that as well, yeah.
29:09
Right. So they need to know that, OK,
29:12
the content's AI, or there's AI involved in the content, but the
29:15
product's real, right? You, you have to, you also have
29:19
to assume that they'll nick that over a a certain time arise and
29:23
they're not going to have that negative feeling anymore because
29:27
they won't know that they were duped.
29:29
So like, if you consume something and you never know
29:32
that you were duped and you get the product and it's fulfilled
29:35
your expectations, then it's like, yeah, almost none of it
29:42
matters. Well, that's why it's so to win,
29:44
because so many people are engaging in some sort of dupe at
29:47
some point in that funnel that when like a good company
29:50
actually gives you a good product that you actually like,
29:53
you've like guys, it's all you have to do.
29:55
Like nobody has to trick anybody into anything.
29:57
We just have to like sell good shit to people and they'll freak
30:00
out and love it. Like that's, that's it.
30:02
Nobody has to fool anybody. Sorry, switching topics here,
30:09
I'm curious to learn more about your business model too, because
30:12
I, I mean, I, I think I've got a little bit of a sense of it, but
30:15
how does it actually work in terms of if actually you're,
30:17
you're connecting the creators with the people who are buying
30:21
this contents? What does that process look
30:24
like? How do you, I guess, monetize
30:28
your business in that context too?
30:29
Yeah, sure. So we have plans where basically
30:33
someone will subscribe to Grid Bank for our most popular plan
30:36
is $790.00 a quarter. We do that because the length of
30:40
an average ad campaign is about that long, so people's credits
30:45
don't run out. And it also gives them the
30:47
benefit of not like we used to have monthly, but people's
30:50
credits would would run out before their ad campaign was
30:52
done. Who were like, you know what,
30:54
let's do it as the length of an ad campaign, but not make people
30:57
commit for a whole year if they don't want to.
30:59
So we landed on 1/4. And that's so I just real quick,
31:02
that's because of licensing of the assets.
31:05
Yeah, yeah, licensing and just the amount of credits that
31:09
people have. So if you go on to our plan
31:11
right now, you'll have 120 downloads for the next 90 days,
31:14
as opposed to having 30 downloads for 30 days where you
31:19
might not like your campaign might be in 35 days, for
31:23
example, where you'll need to export the videos.
31:27
So it's just makes it a little bit easier.
31:29
And then within those credits, each time a video gets
31:32
downloaded, like gets clicked on, the creator immediately gets
31:36
paid and they get paid based on an algorithm that we have
31:42
internally that determines whether that determines like the
31:45
scarcity of that type of content versus the desire in the
31:50
marketplace of what we have. So it's a dynamic kind of
31:54
flowing thing. So we're always making sure that
31:55
people are getting rewarded more for stuff that we actually need.
31:59
And then that encourages them to upload more stuff of the stuff
32:01
that the customers need. And that's how it works.
32:05
And then we use any of those royalty payouts or any unused
32:08
credits as bonuses or incentives throughout the month for
32:14
creators to just like pay people more that are doing really well
32:18
or that are putting in a lot of effort, run promos for creators
32:22
or do whatever. What's like the distribution?
32:26
Is there like a is there like one person that's just like
32:28
absolutely crushing it or like how far from like the first
32:31
person back to like the, you know, like the bell curve is it?
32:39
I think so. At the top range there are a few
32:44
people that are paying their rent like just off of grid bank
32:49
royalties, which is really cool because they dedicate maybe like
32:52
an hour a month to just filming some stuff and like reseeding
32:58
the engine. There is actually a really high
33:03
distribution of people that do make money.
33:06
I think about, if I'm not mistaken, I almost don't want
33:11
to. Like I think 40% of people that
33:15
have uploaded 10 videos or more have made money.
33:20
It's quite agnostic and the bell curve is actually not.
33:25
There aren't many outliers. Like kidding aside, like I think
33:30
I have $30.00. I obviously don't redeem the
33:36
earnings from Gridbank. I put them back into the creator
33:38
pool. But I was out at an event last
33:42
night and someone I knew there came up to me and was like, I
33:45
have 7 bucks and I was like, holy shit, yeah, sick.
33:50
And then other people upload and you know, so the distribution is
33:55
actually kind of wide, but when people put like a modicum of
33:58
effort into uploading more stuff, like maybe a, an hour, a
34:02
couple hours a month, right now, the payouts are really high for
34:07
those people. Granted, when we get more
34:10
creators where, you know, it's, it might well, I don't know
34:15
what's going to happen. I hope it doesn't.
34:18
We're going to bump those people to the top anyways.
34:20
So they're always making the amount of money that they always
34:23
have because I don't want anyone to like drop off when there are
34:27
more creators. So that's also the thing.
34:30
But you know, we'll just that's how you balance out.
34:32
That's why we built our algorithm the way we did was to
34:34
always kind of keep balance on the supply and demand side.
34:37
So we didn't have to like think about it.
34:39
We have it all listed out. So the ideal state would be that
34:46
you have some set of like your top, I don't know, let's say
34:51
510% of creators, whatever that is, making more and more money
34:55
to incentivize them to keep doing more and more of the same
34:57
thing. Yeah, it's about what the
35:00
customers want, right. So on Grid Bank, the a really
35:03
cool thing is that we get a lot of search data, we get a lot of
35:07
like data. We see what people hover on, we
35:09
see what people click on and are about to download, and then what
35:12
they choose to download instead of what they downloaded, which
35:15
is also a really interesting insight for creators.
35:19
So the ideal end state is that all of that data gets properly
35:24
communicated back to people so that they can actually succeed
35:29
the most. Customers are happy, creators
35:31
are happy. Everyone's getting what they
35:33
need based on what they're searching for and clicking on.
35:35
So yeah. And then in this context,
35:39
creators are not, they're not doing custom assets for a brand
35:44
or something like that. It's it's effectively like stock
35:50
content. It's it's like an everyday
35:53
stock. So because we're not, it's not
35:56
professional. It's like gamified stock, if you
35:58
will, because there are no professionals on it.
36:01
So people have their phones all the time.
36:03
So we get like a much more instant playback, like within
36:06
hours we can get videos. If there's a surge in demand to
36:11
actual material in the marketplace, custom stuff.
36:15
Not that it wouldn't be useful, but there are just so many other
36:18
platforms for that, that it's not going to make anyone's lives
36:23
better to have it on grid bank as well.
36:26
Like other people do that better than us.
36:28
We're just, we really like a passive experience.
36:31
I'm always, I've always been really intrigued by like
36:34
actually dignified passive income, like not bullshit
36:36
passive income. And that's really what we're
36:38
trying to build towards. People really like it.
36:40
They like that we don't. We spoke to a bunch of craters
36:43
in the past few weeks and they said like what I honestly, what
36:45
I like most about grid make is you guys aren't like forcing me
36:48
to do anything else other than what I'm already doing.
36:51
And I can check my app and like my money's there and like, it's
36:53
all good. That's perfect.
36:56
That's exactly what I want. Laura I love how much spice
37:00
there is. There's a dignified passive
37:03
income and and bullshit passive income, I think.
37:05
What's bullshit? Passive income?
37:08
Bullshit. Passive income is when we're
37:10
like 18 years old and we're like doing surveys and shit and we're
37:13
trying to, you know, like when we're all trying to hustle and
37:20
people say oh, like make money on this and then you realize
37:22
it's not actually passive or whatever it is.
37:25
That's like, it's like being a landlord and owning properties.
37:28
There's nothing happening about that.
37:30
Yeah. It's actually it's so funny to
37:33
what your whole story here has been.
37:36
It just reminds me of when I started doing Facebook ads at a
37:41
software company in 2012. And I just remember we would
37:43
download stock photos. It was all just like the, the
37:47
right hands or the right, the right sidebar ads I think was
37:53
the only thing available at that point in time.
37:54
And you just like download stock photos, do like a headline and a
37:59
little bit of copy. And that was like, all of the
38:01
ads were just this. And it's like it's, it's like a,
38:06
a much better version of that, a much more modernized version of
38:09
like pulling in that being able to give people content that they
38:13
can actually use in a variety of contexts.
38:14
I think that's pretty cool. I think that's such a good place
38:19
to take it back to, to just understand why something like
38:21
Grid Bank exists, right? Because ads were extremely
38:24
uncompetitive back then, right? All you needed to really do was
38:29
pay for them, right? You didn't need the most
38:31
incredible media to be the most persuasive.
38:33
And maybe there was a little bit of a art of copywriting there
38:36
that, you know, you could maybe improve performance.
38:39
But I imagine I, I wasn't even advertising that then.
38:42
I imagine that it was just, it was just pay for impressions,
38:48
right? Or pay per click.
38:50
We literally spent millions on probably like 10 different stock
38:52
photos and a bunch of different like headlines and.
38:56
Hell yeah. Nice.
38:57
Well, I was like when you if you think back to what's weird about
39:01
it is like sometimes I think, oh, imagine if I had a time
39:03
machine, I could just like go back knowing what everything I
39:05
know now to like 2017 and like you might have had like a
39:10
certain edge potentially. But like, realistically, if you
39:14
really think back with like the Facebook feed was back then,
39:19
like a random image with like a headline was like pretty close
39:23
to like random news articles that were on the Facebook feed.
39:25
Like people used used to just like go to like a New York Times
39:28
article, copy paste and like post, you know?
39:31
And it wasn't like people making content.
39:33
You weren't really going there for quote UN quote
39:34
entertainment. You weren't really like
39:36
consuming in the same way. And so like, weirdly, yeah, like
39:40
ads used to be bad, but like the Facebook feed also was kind of
39:42
bullshit. So it's like they they kind of
39:45
fit in and like in the same way that now ads are like really
39:48
entertaining and like really, you know, like capturing
39:51
attention. It's like, OK, like all reels
39:52
are also that, you know? Dude, do you remember when the
39:57
feeds were chronological and it wasn't like merit based so you
40:02
could just spam? When I built my first business,
40:03
we just spammed the feeds and we would add a bunch of people to
40:09
Facebook groups. I would have these like
40:10
freelancers rack up like 5000 friends and then add them into
40:13
Facebook groups and just. Spam those groups as well.
40:16
And, and yeah, so it's a it was really uncompetitive.
40:20
It was just like, who can get the most media out right?
40:23
Who can post? You could really hustle back
40:25
that, like hustling back then worked in a way that it doesn't
40:28
now. Yeah, I used.
40:31
I used to run a Facebook group that was how to scan people on
40:35
Habbo Hotel. I don't know if you guys ever
40:37
played Habbo Hotel, but it was like it was a paid Facebook
40:42
group where people would send me like a PayPal and then I just
40:45
had a system of how to like scam people out of their have a hotel
40:50
coins. And it was like, oh, it was all
40:53
social engineering. This is like I was like 15.
40:56
This is incredible law. This is amazing law.
40:58
This is a. Good law.
40:59
OK so this this is the only scam that I ever ran and it wasn't
41:03
real money which is even worse like it should be real money.
41:06
If you're going to run a scam, you're.
41:07
Going to scam. Yeah, and so if you're going to
41:11
scam, like why scam for fake tokens like scam for real money,
41:14
but like I was like making a little bit of money selling the
41:18
scam. So essentially what I would do
41:20
like the, the number one sort of like system was you go and have
41:24
a hotel and you need to like build up some sort of well, so
41:27
you had a really sick like have a hotel penthouse.
41:30
And then you would put out on the message board that you're
41:32
running a beauty contest and that the winner would get like
41:36
whatever amount of like coins for a beauty contest.
41:40
And then you'd invite, but you have to like pay to enter in,
41:42
like have a hotel coins. And so you'd get like all these
41:45
people coming in for a beauty contest to win this like grand
41:48
prize of like 10,000 coins and they'd all buy in for like 1000.
41:50
And then you just like block them all.
41:53
And I ended up becoming just like I, I headed it was becoming
41:57
a have a hotel kingpin. And then it stopped working.
42:00
So I was like, I'm going to build a group on like how I
42:02
became the Abbotopic kingpin. So that's why that's my
42:08
adolescent scam story. Guys, guys, guys, we've already
42:10
shared now if you have any like silly hustles that you had when
42:13
you were younger, this is not a hustle, but this is.
42:17
Do you guys remember Runescape? It was like a video game where
42:21
you like. Escaped videos like every night
42:24
like we're in. So yeah, like I think.
42:27
Oh awesome. Still a thing?
42:29
Now I'm very. Familiar.
42:30
You would like mine stuff and then you go to this place called
42:32
the Grand Exchange and sell it. And I got into just trading
42:35
lobsters, just buying lobsters and selling them for AAB.
42:39
And then they released a mini game which like introduced a a
42:42
boatload of lobsters into the game and I quit.
42:44
I was like, I'm done. The price of lobsters tanked and
42:47
I was like, I'm done. That's kind of like the opposite
42:50
of what happened to real lobsters in real life.
42:54
Like lobsters used to not be a delicacy or whatever because
42:57
there were so many of them, they would feed them to prisoners.
43:02
Oh, really? And.
43:03
When they brought them overseas over to like, North America,
43:08
they started marketing it more as a legacy because I had so
43:10
many of them. I could tell Laura.
43:12
Laura, you're not getting out of this.
43:13
Zach went first. He told his embarrassing story.
43:16
I told mine. You're up.
43:17
No, Jeremiah goes. No, no.
43:20
I don't know that I have an embarrassing story, but I do
43:22
have AI have a game idea that I has been in my mind for like
43:26
10-12 years and that's a, the game is called Ponzi scheme.
43:31
And basically the idea is that everybody opts into joining
43:36
Ponzi schemes. And so there's like end game
43:38
currency and effectively the goal is to get out before it
43:43
crashes. So you like get into a Ponzi
43:45
scheme. You don't know when it's going
43:46
to crash, but you know it's going to crash.
43:48
And so you you're trying to maximize your earning potential
43:52
before it crashes. That's funny.
43:55
That's funny that. Would be such a good online
43:57
casino. That would be such a good online
43:59
casino game. The one where like the rail goes
44:02
up? Yeah.
44:04
Yeah. Like once you earn enough, you
44:06
can start your own Ponzi schemes so so you know when it's going
44:12
to crash, but nobody else does. So anyway, this was that's you
44:17
could. Certainly build this and move to
44:19
the Cayman Islands. 100% like this.
44:21
This would print dude. Yeah.
44:23
I think it would. I would play it.
44:24
And, and because the game is literally called Ponzi scheme,
44:28
it is not, by definition it cannot be a Ponzi scheme because
44:32
you know what's happening. So there's nothing illegal about
44:34
it as far as I know. I haven't run it by a lawyer.
44:36
Do we have to cut this part out of the pod?
44:38
Yeah, I think so. I don't know if you guys want to
44:40
reveal your inner. Maybe we should all just team up
44:45
and get a belt but. Yeah, well, I guess we could.
44:48
I mean, I was in mobile games before.
44:50
What is this like? What are you talking about?
44:51
You said you said you. You say no.
44:53
It's the art of saying no. What?
44:56
Who's saying no? You were saying earlier you've
44:58
got to say no to things. Yeah, sorry, no, whatever.
45:04
OK, no, no Ponzi schemes, no scheming.
45:11
I didn't run any scams guys. I just charged a shit load for
45:13
my lemonade. I really got to say like I was I
45:16
was pumping like $5 lemonade in in NDG in Montreal and I would
45:23
loved making the signs like that was my thing was making the
45:26
signs. But no, I never like scammed per
45:29
SE. I did weird shit though when I
45:32
was a kid. I used to want to build.
45:35
I was thinking I was telling somebody about this the other
45:38
day. I remember when I was a kid I
45:40
collected all the toilet paper rolls from my house for like
45:44
months like after they were done just to like try and build like
45:47
a huge Fort out of all of them in the backyard.
45:52
I would also dig holes in the backyard like I would.
45:56
This is 90s kids stuff. Yeah, I'm hearing it.
46:00
It's it's interesting what you said about the the lemonade
46:02
though, you know, charging lots of lemonade.
46:03
It remind me you, you were trying to figure out the pricing
46:07
for videos on on grid bank. How did you land on, you know,
46:11
some balance of supply and demand in the end for your
46:13
pricing? There's a lot of talk, I'm not
46:15
sure if you guys have seen it on X right now about SAS pricing.
46:19
I think it's super interesting. Yeah.
46:21
And, and, and giving customers a way to anchor price to the value
46:25
of the content that they're getting or whatever it is
46:28
they're getting off from your SAS.
46:30
I think it's super interesting as opposed to anchoring it to, I
46:33
don't know, competitors or other SAS and completely different
46:37
verticals. So, yeah, how did you land on
46:40
that supply demand balance and how do you think about pricing?
46:44
This was the hardest part. This was the hardest part
46:47
because a lot of people will hear that the delta is really
46:53
wide between what somebody thinks a lot of money for a
46:57
video is like UGC creators, for example, their closest anchor
47:02
that they have is creating custom work for like a brand
47:06
project, right? But that's really different than
47:11
a video that's been sitting on your phone that's going to be
47:13
sold to multiple people over and over again for the rest of time,
47:17
just like accruing value. So it was really hard to find a
47:22
comparable. I started a baseline where
47:27
Shutterstock and Getty Images are both public companies.
47:31
This was a huge benefit to me early on building it.
47:35
And they've been public companies for like 20 years.
47:38
So all of their earnings data and like how much they pay
47:43
graders or whatever is publicly available.
47:46
Granted, like, you know, not exactly like they're never super
47:51
exact about it, but you can glean from their quarterly
47:55
reports for the past 20 years, like how much they tend to
47:59
budget. So I was like these guys
48:00
obviously know what they're doing in terms of operating this
48:03
type of business. So what I did is I took those
48:07
anchors and I just paid people more than that.
48:12
I was like, I'm not going to pay people less than that amount of
48:15
our gross, so I'm going to set aside an amount of growth to pay
48:21
people and then I'm going to distribute the earnings based on
48:24
the needs of what the customers actually want.
48:26
On the pricing side, we did the same thing for the pricing.
48:29
It was probably one of the most difficult parts of building in
48:34
general because we had much smaller plans before we were
48:39
doing like, you know, around 50 bucks a month or whatever for
48:44
like 10 videos or something. And that was not working for so
48:49
many reasons. The nature of the product that
48:52
we have is that people need a lot of video.
48:55
Of the customers that use our platform don't need 10 videos,
48:58
they need hundreds. They need to test like usually
49:01
they're pretty advertising literate and so they want to
49:04
download tons and test different types of concepts.
49:07
Like they need hundreds, if not hundreds and hundreds per month
49:10
of videos to pump into their iterations and stuff.
49:14
So that was pretty hard to nail. But once we got to that point,
49:17
which was offering people a lot of videos within a time frame
49:22
that made sense while being able to pay people more than what
49:30
stock video companies had done before.
49:33
It just like maths out while being able to, you know, grow a
49:36
business also so that we can get more customers, so that we can
49:39
get more demand. Because the more demand that you
49:42
get, the more money people make, the more money people make, the
49:46
happier people are. So it's yeah, we, we were able
49:52
to swing it with the model that we have now.
50:00
Cool. And then we're coming up on
50:02
time, but I would love to just know what's your, what's your
50:04
goal with the grid bank? What's your goal is for?
50:12
To leave with $50 million liquid.
50:18
It's very specific. He didn't just make that up.
50:19
That is genuinely been the goal for a long time.
50:22
Yeah, I've heard of like 10 times about.
50:26
Like in your perfect world, like what would it, what would be
50:28
like an amazing outcome where you're like this?
50:30
I'd be. I'd be super stoked about this.
50:32
I kind of want to like ring the bell, OK, Yeah, I kind of want
50:38
to like do it. It's I think my allegiance to
50:41
the idea. I think it's this like simplest
50:45
idea. It applies to everybody, like
50:48
everybody has a phone, like everybody can participate in
50:52
this. So I want everyone's instinct in
50:56
the world be like after they take a photo or a video that
50:59
they have the opportunity to upload it to grid bank and you
51:02
can make money off of it and they're happy about that.
51:04
And that's a lot of people in the world.
51:07
And I think that's kind of what I'm going to push for is the is
51:14
the big one on this one. I don't know if I'm going to
51:16
start another company again, Guys, I wasn't hustling like you
51:19
were like, I think this is, I think this is the thing like the
51:23
idea kind of found me. I don't know if I'm building
51:28
other companies after this, to be honest.
51:30
So I'm kind of going to like send it.
51:36
Nice. And do you relate to this?
51:38
You mentioned that you're a non-technical founder.
51:40
Zach sent me this the other day. You're going to be fine.
51:44
Listen, I'll. Be honest with you, I'm kind of
51:48
retarded in that. Is that is that relatable?
51:54
Story of my life. You go up to developers and
51:56
you're like, guys, I you, I am an idiot.
52:00
Please, like, forgive me. Give me grace.
52:04
How long is this going to take? What is this like work with me?
52:08
You're going to hate working with me.
52:09
I have no idea what I'm talking about.
52:12
Absolutely, 100%. Do you have any devs on your
52:17
team that pull funny faces when you try and articulate your
52:22
ideas? Are you, are you in figma?
52:24
Are you sketching these ideas out or are you just like in
52:27
words? Kind of.
52:29
No, no, I mean, I was a creative director, so I have, I'm not
52:32
like I did a minor in computation arts, you know, what
52:36
is that? But like I did some like minor
52:39
coding stuff and a lot of production stuff.
52:43
So I know a lot about like software and design and
52:47
whatever. So I'm not like vacant, I
52:51
suppose in, in the domain. But yeah, no, I'm in Figma.
52:57
I'm I'm up in Figma. You can catch me in Figma for
53:00
sure. Although have you guys tried the
53:02
new framer design tool? I haven't tried that yet, but
53:05
I'm keen to see what they've got cooking I.
53:09
Don't even know they came out with like a Sigma competitor.
53:12
Yeah, a free one like a couple weeks ago.
53:15
Interesting. Nice.
53:20
And nobody wants me designing anything.
53:22
I just. Don't, Yeah.
53:23
Are you guys up in Figma? Like are you like how close are
53:25
you guys to or Zach, how close are you to the product and to
53:28
the design and stuff? Were you at the?
53:31
Big Sigma like yeah, I'm in like Sigma everyday still.
53:33
Still. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
53:36
I think it's like my highest leverage place to be.
53:39
Sweet. Yeah, I also like, I'm not good
53:41
with like communication. So like just showing stuff is a
53:45
lot, a lot better now. Now we have like a designer
53:47
that's much better than me at UI, but I go pretty far.
53:52
Like there's a lot of massaging to my ideas before they're worth
53:57
anything. And I I need to like do that
54:00
myself. Like if I tried to do like
54:02
iterations just on like yeah, I need to do like the first if we
54:07
were digging a hole like I need to get the hole started
54:09
certainly before it it kind of before we get to water, so.
54:13
What does that process look like for you of like iterating?
54:16
Do you let your subconscious take care of a lot of the work?
54:20
Do you work through a lot? I just go, I just like sit in
54:24
front of my computer until I like it until like I for me,
54:27
it's like I hate it. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it
54:29
until. And then when I don't hate it
54:31
that much, I'm like, OK, it's probably good to pass off when?
54:36
You don't hate it. It's the it's like the absence
54:38
of negative feelings. It's.
54:42
Isn't that, isn't that a funny thing though?
54:44
Like I'm sure you you all feel this way too, but it feels like
54:47
the work, like whatever I'm doing never is.
54:51
I'm never satisfied with that. It never feels like it's good
54:53
enough. It's never, it's never good
54:57
enough for me. And I don't feel like I'm a
54:59
perfectionist, but like, it's definitely like it's never good
55:03
enough. Well, there's this actually,
55:05
there's this concept of why that exists.
55:08
And there's people that actually they feel like stuff's good
55:11
enough and those people usually don't get that far.
55:14
And like what it is is that it's a, there's always a gap gap
55:17
between your taste and then what you can kind of like do.
55:22
And so as you like progress, your taste is anchored to like
55:27
what you had done previously. And so like your taste is always
55:30
like a certain number of degrees and had ahead of your
55:33
capabilities and like ideally like you live in that for the
55:36
rest of your life. Yeah.
55:40
But I think there's like a yeah, 100%.
55:44
And there's the decision to work is like understanding that
55:47
things could be better if I did something about it.
55:49
And things can always be better unless you decide that they
55:53
can't be better and you stop working, right?
55:56
I think that's probably why those people don't go so far or
55:58
they stop making things better, right?
56:00
Where people do want things to be better in almost every sense,
56:05
right? Whether it's a foreplay or it's
56:09
grid bank or it's yeah, no. I know something's good when I
56:13
send it to people. That's like my, like when I send
56:16
it to people and ask them for feedback, I'm like, can you put
56:18
comments on this? Like that's my.
56:21
Like you're proud. That that I that I don't hate
56:25
the work. I think my problem is I might be
56:30
proud of something today, and then tomorrow I'm not just like,
56:34
like, Oh yeah, this is good. And then I look at it, yeah,
56:36
maybe not early tomorrow, but like a week later.
56:37
Sometimes I'd be like, oh I really wish I would have done
56:40
this thing instead. Jeremiah, my first brand.
56:43
We took down our old products because I was like, this doesn't
56:46
reflect us now and we do it over and over again.
56:49
I do it, they're still selling. But fuck it.
56:51
I'm not proud of this. I'm embarrassed now.
56:53
OK, well if it still makes money, I'm not taking it out.
56:55
I got some things that make money but I'm definitely not
56:58
proud of. But they make money.
57:01
Ain't that the truth? Cool.
57:04
All right, Laura, thanks for coming on.
57:06
And everybody go check out Brick Grid Bank.
57:09
And yeah, this is a great episode.
57:11
Thank you, Zach. Thank you guys so much for for
57:14
inviting me on. Have fun in Miami.
57:16
I will be in Canada still for the foreseeable future.
57:19
So you win. Get some skiing in.
57:23
Yeah, I guess. See you guys.
57:25
Bye.