Latest / The You Project / #1838 Building Resilience & Other Hard Things - Bobby Cappuccio

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#1838 Building Resilience & Other Hard Things - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Bobby Capuccio, Hi, buddy.
0:03
Speaker 2: See. I was just saying like, don't come on too strong,
0:06
Speaker 2: and then you came on really strong, which like encourages
0:08
Speaker 2: me to be full on.
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Speaker 1: In the introduction, how are you going made, I'm very good.
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Speaker 1: It's for those who are interested. It's six thirty three
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Speaker 1: in the PM where Bobby is yesterday my time, it's
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Speaker 1: twelve thirty three here in the thriving metropolis that is Melbourne,
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Speaker 1: twenty seventh, the twenty sixth. There, how's your day been?
0:28
Speaker 1: Give my ol not my our listeners, a snapshot of
0:33
Speaker 1: what you did today without divulging any state secrets.
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Speaker 2: Well, I got started pretty early, like five am, bayse
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Speaker 2: sx AM. I was pretty deep into it. Had an
0:44
Speaker 2: event at a college which was great, great crew. It's
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Speaker 2: the second time I've been to this this school, like
0:52
Speaker 2: working with them quite a bit. Then took it like
0:55
Speaker 2: for me an epic drive because I'm not much of
0:57
Speaker 2: a driver. I'm a New Yorker. We're not known for
1:01
Speaker 2: our driving capabilities. And then went to another event at
1:06
Speaker 2: a high school today that was nice, and then what are.
1:10
Speaker 1: You doing at these school? Like? What are you doing?
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Speaker 2: Well? We provide, we provide services like my organization, to schools,
1:18
Speaker 2: to law enforcement, emergency first responders, local government. We started off.
1:24
Speaker 2: It's interesting because before they introduced me, they did this
1:28
Speaker 2: game like two truths and one lie, and kind of
1:32
Speaker 2: interesting like, so, yeah, you know the game, he says
1:35
Speaker 2: the truth, but okay, right, it's a self explained story.
1:37
Speaker 2: I thought, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna play this game today.
1:40
Speaker 2: So I trashed my entire intro because I was like,
1:42
Speaker 2: you know what, not interested in doing that anymore. Let
1:46
Speaker 2: me play this game. And I think my my intro
1:50
Speaker 2: kind of went, Okay, I'm I'm really excited to be here,
1:53
Speaker 2: and I'm grateful to be here. I absolutely don't want
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Speaker 2: to be here right now. I literally rab to be
2:00
Speaker 2: doing anything else. And this is a unique engaging topic.
2:06
Speaker 2: And they had to guess, like what was the lie,
2:09
Speaker 2: and the lie was the last statement, So the first
2:14
Speaker 2: thing was completely true. I was excited to be there,
2:16
Speaker 2: and I was grateful, and I absolutely did not want
2:19
Speaker 2: to be there at the same time, and I'd rather
2:20
Speaker 2: be doing literally anything else than hanging out there with them.
2:24
Speaker 2: Because what I had lied about is this is not
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Speaker 2: a unique and engaging topic. What people are increasingly asking
2:32
Speaker 2: for is around some form of how do we build
2:35
Speaker 2: resilience and how do we stave off burnout? So people
2:39
Speaker 2: are suffering, and they're struggling, and they're feeling a less
2:43
Speaker 2: sense of control and agency. So as much as I
2:47
Speaker 2: love a lot of these people I work with, I
2:49
Speaker 2: hate the subject matter because it's indicative of the fact
2:53
Speaker 2: that people are kind of on their knees and it's
2:59
Speaker 2: been getting worse. So why do you talk about that
3:03
Speaker 2: for a while?
3:04
Speaker 1: What do you think? What do you think it's getting worse?
3:08
Speaker 1: Why are people I don't know. Can we objectively say
3:12
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess so, But what is it?
3:15
Speaker 1: Either it is or it seems like it is that
3:17
Speaker 1: people are doing worse. What's your theory?
3:21
Speaker 2: Well, I think one, You're right, I don't know if
3:23
Speaker 2: it's getting worse, but it seems like it's getting worse.
3:26
Speaker 2: I think everybody's competing for mind share, and like here
3:30
Speaker 2: in the United States politically, people are becoming increasingly divided.
3:34
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't want to talk about politics,
3:36
Speaker 2: but no matter which side you associate or identify with,
3:41
Speaker 2: they're constantly hitting the panic button to get your tune
3:44
Speaker 2: into and in tune in and you listen to all
3:46
Speaker 2: these threads, nobody's really talking to each other. They're talking
3:50
Speaker 2: at each other. So I think there's a complete lack
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Speaker 2: of social cohesion, which I believe, regardless of the popularity
3:58
Speaker 2: of a monomaniac on a MID, is one of the
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Speaker 2: greatest contributing factors to well being, longevity and long term
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Speaker 2: cognitive performance and emotional regulation. I think that fragmentization of
4:10
Speaker 2: relationships at work, at home socially is devastating. I think
4:16
Speaker 2: people feel more things are out of their control than
4:19
Speaker 2: in their control because they're getting all of these inputs.
4:22
Speaker 2: Now is that true? I don't know, Like Steven Pinker, well,
4:26
Speaker 2: we'll show you how we've we've come from one place
4:30
Speaker 2: a few hundred years ago to a much much better place.
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Speaker 2: The world has arguably never been as good as it
4:35
Speaker 2: is now. But yes, a few hundred years ago, I
4:41
Speaker 2: you know, I was kind of like contained within Dumbbar's number.
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Speaker 2: You know, you had about groups of what like maximum
4:48
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty people. Where now it's just you're
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Speaker 2: getting input from everywhere. And I think I think when
5:00
Speaker 2: thinking as much.
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Speaker 1: Do you think that, Yeah, do you think that? Because
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Speaker 1: things are really presented now, irrespective of whether or not
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Speaker 1: they're fully true, partially true, completely untrue, Like things can
5:16
Speaker 1: be presented in a really compelling way, Like certain things
5:20
Speaker 1: get presented to my mum and dad on the TV
5:24
Speaker 1: or even by someone on the phone or someone in
5:28
Speaker 1: a shopping center. So mom and dad were at a
5:30
Speaker 1: shopping center recently and they basically almost got well, they
5:36
Speaker 1: someone was trying to sell them on this thing. Doesn't
5:38
Speaker 1: matter what it was, but it's the thing you have
5:40
Speaker 1: in the home. It does all this stuff to your air, apparently,
5:42
Speaker 1: and you know, and it's amazing, it's incredible, right and
5:47
Speaker 1: it's not. And fortunately I came up two days later
5:50
Speaker 1: and I saw this brochure and I saw this appointment time.
5:52
Speaker 1: I'm like, what's this. My mum said, Oh, it's amazing,
5:55
Speaker 1: and I anyway, it's not amazing and it's a scam.
5:58
Speaker 1: But you know, she's like, but the lady said, I go,
6:02
Speaker 1: but the lady's selling you something, Mum. The lady her
6:06
Speaker 1: job is literally to make money, and that's we shouldn't
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Speaker 1: begrudge her making money. But don't confuse a sales pitch
6:14
Speaker 1: or an opinion or anecdotal evidence or whatever it is
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Speaker 1: with data or science or truth or I think that, Yeah,
6:22
Speaker 1: because everything can be so well sold and produced and presented.
6:28
Speaker 1: Like you look at the stuff that constantly. I don't
6:30
Speaker 1: know about your feed, but I get a lot of
6:33
Speaker 1: stuff about supplements and training this, and like a lot
6:37
Speaker 1: of stuff in the health, wellness, high performance space. And
6:41
Speaker 1: you would think because it's almost presented as a mini
6:45
Speaker 1: documentary rather than a sales pitch for something. So if
6:49
Speaker 1: you don't really know what you're reading or what you're
6:51
Speaker 1: listening to, it's so easy to lack the knowledge or
6:56
Speaker 1: the discernment to be able to pick the bullshit from
6:59
Speaker 1: the truth.
7:01
Speaker 2: Well, one thing, I'm glad you get in my emails
7:04
Speaker 2: you didn't respond. I'm glad you're actually receiving them.
7:07
Speaker 1: Second, Yeah, that that plant thing that that I've been
7:12
Speaker 1: taking that ancient Yeah, that's really it's helped.
7:16
Speaker 2: Did you like the graphics, It's good.
7:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for the shot and the instructions.
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Speaker 2: The powder the powder blue font on like a lime
7:24
Speaker 2: green background that was my own personal design, by the way.
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Speaker 2: Could so, I just don't think that we're engaging in
7:35
Speaker 2: things that set us up psychologically or neurobiologically for to
7:43
Speaker 2: feel like we're experiencing a state of well being. I mean, yes,
7:46
Speaker 2: people are working very long hours and that you know,
7:49
Speaker 2: if you're working constantly without a break, I think that
7:51
Speaker 2: contributes to burnout. But in and of itself, it can
7:56
Speaker 2: also do quite the opposite. And I've heard you say
7:59
Speaker 2: this a thousand times. I think I've actually repeated it,
8:02
Speaker 2: to be completely honest. Where you're working sixty hours a
8:06
Speaker 2: week in a job that you can't wait to wake
8:08
Speaker 2: up in the morning and you're just completely engaged, you're
8:11
Speaker 2: in love with it, or you're working thirty hours a
8:13
Speaker 2: week and a job that you absolutely can't stand and
8:15
Speaker 2: sucking the soul. Idea which ones are going to contribute
8:17
Speaker 2: to burnout? I think the answer for everybody listening to
8:21
Speaker 2: this is pretty obvious. We don't you know, Robert Green.
8:26
Speaker 2: This is just popping into my head. I am a
8:29
Speaker 2: Robert Green fan for a few reals, and.
8:31
Speaker 1: So I love that forty eight Loads of Power Everyone,
8:33
Speaker 1: and a few other books as well.
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Speaker 2: Well. I'm talking specifically about mastery. We've removed apprenticeship and
8:39
Speaker 2: mastery from our society. You know, We've We've got all
8:44
Speaker 2: these tools and technologies and we're just going from one
8:47
Speaker 2: task to another, never fully concentrating and focusing, and I
8:52
Speaker 2: think that's really bad for us. So there was a
8:57
Speaker 2: study published back in twenty twelve Nature, which is probably
9:02
Speaker 2: one of the most reputable journals in the world, and
9:05
Speaker 2: what it was showing is a correlation between higher levels
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Speaker 2: of dopamine like which rewards goal seeking behavior, and lower
9:15
Speaker 2: corresponding levels of cortisol. So you know, like everybody's talking
9:20
Speaker 2: about self care, I think, and I think self care
9:24
Speaker 2: is really important. Like to meet you, Mendelief was working
9:28
Speaker 2: on the periodic table and just grinding and grinding and grinding,
9:31
Speaker 2: and it wasn't coming to him, and finally he just quit.
9:34
Speaker 2: I don't think he quit forever. It's just like, okay,
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Speaker 2: I can't keep this up. So he just like dropped
9:39
Speaker 2: it and went to sleep. So he goes to sleep
9:42
Speaker 2: in a dream, the periodic table comes to him, and
9:45
Speaker 2: that's your default mode network, like in operation, because like
9:49
Speaker 2: when your your prefrontal lobes are overtasked, grinding hard or
9:53
Speaker 2: is not going to help you. But when it comes
9:56
Speaker 2: to most things, I think it is that immersive focus
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Speaker 2: and work an effort in something that's meaningful, Like if
10:03
Speaker 2: I feel like life is happening to me rather than
10:07
Speaker 2: I'm acting from a sense of agency. That's stressful. Or
10:11
Speaker 2: if I feel like I'm at work and my relationships
10:14
Speaker 2: are contentious rather than collaborative. I think that's a lot
10:19
Speaker 2: to deal with, And I feel like people are going
10:21
Speaker 2: into those environments increasingly or people are gonna hate me
10:25
Speaker 2: for saying this. I think that when you structure work
10:33
Speaker 2: around certain conveniences and you allow people to work from
10:41
Speaker 2: a sense of freedom and autonomy, if you have the
10:43
Speaker 2: right people on your team, performance will increase. But I
10:47
Speaker 2: think what I struggle with is absolutes, like everybody needs
10:52
Speaker 2: to come back to the office, Like if you're at home,
10:56
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're doing, well, then man, you've
10:58
Speaker 2: hired the wrong stem. And I also disagree with we
11:03
Speaker 2: should never be in the office again. We could be
11:05
Speaker 2: completely virtual because there is like there's research out of
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Speaker 2: MIT by Thomas Allen about proximity. We know from Paul
11:14
Speaker 2: Zach's work on a moral molecule like like proximity and connection,
11:18
Speaker 2: being face to face. It just does things that virtual
11:22
Speaker 2: doesn't do for us. So I think there's no we
11:25
Speaker 2: need to find a balance of how we work with
11:27
Speaker 2: one another that makes.
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Speaker 1: I think also extrapolating on that which I completely agree
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Speaker 1: with you, you know, with and we've spoken about this many times,
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Speaker 1: and whether or not it's it's the work model, how
11:39
Speaker 1: you work, where you work, you know, is it in
11:43
Speaker 1: the three D version, is a virtual is it a
11:45
Speaker 1: bit of both? Is it at work? Is it at home?
11:47
Speaker 1: What do you eat? How much do you eat? When
11:49
Speaker 1: do you eat? How do you train, how often? How hard?
11:52
Speaker 1: What's your lifestyle? Do you drink booze?
11:54
Speaker 2: Is it? You know?
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Speaker 1: I just think that there's no best model, but there's
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Speaker 1: the best model for each of our listeners, and it's
12:01
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, like I've said many times, my
12:04
Speaker 1: lifestyle and my job and the way that I live
12:07
Speaker 1: and my diet and my habits and behaviors I would
12:10
Speaker 1: not broadly recommend at all, not because it's not good,
12:14
Speaker 1: because it's perfect for me, but it's not going to
12:16
Speaker 1: be good for the majority. In fact, maybe hardly anyone,
12:20
Speaker 1: because they're not me. So, you know, I think one
12:23
Speaker 1: of these ideas that we need to get over in
12:26
Speaker 1: personal development and self help and even behavioral psychology, is
12:31
Speaker 1: that what's the best way too? Rather, it's like perhaps
12:35
Speaker 1: what's the best approach for me rather than the best singular,
12:39
Speaker 1: the best way, and trying to help people understand that,
12:43
Speaker 1: and then to operationalize the idea that, yeah, there are
12:46
Speaker 1: really broad kind of theories and ideas and habits that
12:51
Speaker 1: in general terms create positive outcomes like being consistent with
12:55
Speaker 1: good behaviors whatever they are. But then beyond that, you know,
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Speaker 1: should you train three days a week or seven days
13:01
Speaker 1: a week, should you have you know, two big meals
13:04
Speaker 1: a day or five small meals a day? Should you
13:07
Speaker 1: you know, does running work for you? Or should you
13:09
Speaker 1: do something that's no impact cardio? You know, It's like
13:12
Speaker 1: there are just so many variables, and I think that
13:16
Speaker 1: us learning how we work, Like because your body, you know,
13:22
Speaker 1: and you're you know, you're subconscious and your you know,
13:25
Speaker 1: your internal sat nab that wisdom that comes from who
13:28
Speaker 1: knows where, Like that's all that stuff is always giving
13:32
Speaker 1: us feedback and data and insight, you know, to then go, oh, well,
13:38
Speaker 1: when I work around people, I'm I'm happier, I'm mentally
13:41
Speaker 1: and emotionally I'm in a better place. Or when I
13:44
Speaker 1: work around these people, I'm in a worse place. I
13:47
Speaker 1: fucking dread going to work. But I did have a
13:51
Speaker 1: job once where I was really excited to go to work,
13:53
Speaker 1: So maybe it's not going to work that's the issue,
13:56
Speaker 1: but rather this particular environment, culture, place, people, whatever, you know.
14:01
Speaker 1: So I think this just thinking beyond the you know,
14:05
Speaker 1: the global kind of this is good, that is bad,
14:08
Speaker 1: this is better, that is worse, but trying to understand
14:12
Speaker 1: our own individual responses and I guess reactions and our
14:18
Speaker 1: own kind of I guess operating system that's optimal for
14:23
Speaker 1: us around all of these other variables.
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Speaker 2: I think that level of self awareness, I mean self awareness,
14:29
Speaker 2: it's like the key to the lock on transformation and
14:33
Speaker 2: engagement in anything, you know, engagement being one of doctor
14:38
Speaker 2: Martin Seligman's type criterias for truly living a life of
14:43
Speaker 2: well being. I mean, I think he has five of
14:45
Speaker 2: them represented in Perma, but engagement is definitely one, like
14:49
Speaker 2: what really works for you. But within that there one
14:54
Speaker 2: thing that you said that I grabbed onto was this
14:58
Speaker 2: guy to be consistent and see and quote unquote good behaviors,
15:02
Speaker 2: good behaviors, being supporting what you want. Because I'm all
15:05
Speaker 2: for the breath work, I'm all for the day at
15:07
Speaker 2: the spa. You would appreciate this. So one of the
15:10
Speaker 2: executive leadership team that I was working with, I talked
15:14
Speaker 2: to Tiff about this. I just love this lady. She
15:17
Speaker 2: is so brilliant and so cool and just she's so effective,
15:24
Speaker 2: but she's easy to be around. She actually looks and
15:29
Speaker 2: has some of the mannerisms and characteristics of Lisa Stevenson.
15:33
Speaker 2: And she had said she had said something to me.
15:37
Speaker 2: I won't mention her name, so this is complete respect
15:40
Speaker 2: for her privacy. But she said, oh, you know, over
15:42
Speaker 2: the weekend, I spent the whole day learning how to
15:45
Speaker 2: make sour dough bread. I thought, oh, wow, that's interesting.
15:48
Speaker 2: So you're a baker. I'm not a baker. I was like,
15:51
Speaker 2: you're a bread fan. She's like, nah, I'm all right
15:53
Speaker 2: with bread. I was like, well, would you spend all day?
15:55
Speaker 2: She said, because it's really really hard, and I like
16:00
Speaker 2: doing really hard things that require a lot of effort.
16:05
Speaker 2: And then we got into this, like she gets invited
16:08
Speaker 2: to a spa age like that would just drive me
16:10
Speaker 2: absolutely crazy to just sit there. And the conversation went
16:14
Speaker 2: in a direction where self discipline is self care. You know,
16:19
Speaker 2: we talk about self care. A lot of times people
16:21
Speaker 2: confuse it with self indulgence. And this almost like pampering,
16:27
Speaker 2: but it's really not one. It's an act of generosity
16:30
Speaker 2: and responsibility too. It's kind of analogous to Stephen Covey
16:34
Speaker 2: sharpening the saw. You know, if you're going to be effective,
16:37
Speaker 2: you've got to take a step back. But leaning in
16:40
Speaker 2: and having rituals and disciplines and exerting a lot of effort,
16:45
Speaker 2: I think psychologically and biochemically sets us up for a
16:49
Speaker 2: less stressful life. And I don't mean stress in terms
16:53
Speaker 2: of in what we're putting forth, but distress rather than
17:02
Speaker 2: you stress like stress can make our lives a hell
17:05
Speaker 2: of a lot better. Stress can make us perform at
17:08
Speaker 2: optimal levels, and it can do exactly the opposite. And
17:11
Speaker 2: I think when we don't have discipline, we don't have effort,
17:15
Speaker 2: we don't have rituals and consistency, we sacrifice you stress
17:19
Speaker 2: for distress, and then we say, oh, well, stress is bad,
17:22
Speaker 2: I need a break. How are you framing stress? What
17:25
Speaker 2: does stress mean to you? And what are you doing
17:28
Speaker 2: to contribute to that type of stress that some powerful?
17:32
Speaker 1: Well? That is I love that idea. I love that
17:35
Speaker 1: self care is not self indulgence because often when I
17:39
Speaker 1: when I hear people talking about it's like, literally, what
17:43
Speaker 1: you just said, I'm having a self care day. I'm
17:45
Speaker 1: going to the spa. I'm like, oh, okay, And not
17:49
Speaker 1: that I think that's a bad thing, right, I'm with you,
17:52
Speaker 1: It's not a bad thing, and I'm all for it.
17:56
Speaker 1: But also I think, you know, we know that life
18:00
Speaker 1: life can be. Life can be amazing and beautiful and glorious,
18:02
Speaker 1: but also life can be a fuck and difficult and
18:06
Speaker 1: complicated and madness and mayhem and unfair and painful. Life
18:11
Speaker 1: can be all of that. We don't want it, but
18:14
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that we don't want it. It's coming for
18:16
Speaker 1: all of us. And so you know, with that in mind,
18:20
Speaker 1: how do we how do we build resilience. It's like
18:24
Speaker 1: we talk about resilience a lot, but we also talk
18:27
Speaker 1: about self care days. I'm like, where's the line, you know,
18:32
Speaker 1: so tell me what self care is in the Bobby model.
18:38
Speaker 1: And I know that it's an amalgamation of other people's
18:40
Speaker 1: stuff as well, but just as you explain it, so
18:44
Speaker 1: explain to me how to do self care in a
18:48
Speaker 1: way that is and by the way, we're not saying,
18:52
Speaker 1: you know, scrap the spa days. We're not saying that,
18:56
Speaker 1: we're saying, on top of that, how do we do
18:58
Speaker 1: self care in a way which is going to empower
19:01
Speaker 1: us rather than just make out back more relaxed.
19:05
Speaker 2: And it's different, it is different for everybody. But I
19:08
Speaker 2: think self care starts with self awareness about what is
19:12
Speaker 2: going on inside of us, right, what state are we in,
19:16
Speaker 2: and taking that self awareness and putting it into regulated
19:21
Speaker 2: actions that allow us to recharge. So this way we
19:25
Speaker 2: can optimally re engage. To me, that is what self
19:29
Speaker 2: care is. You know, and we talk about like resilience,
19:33
Speaker 2: what is resilient. Resilience is adaptability. I mean, you know,
19:36
Speaker 2: like bridges and buildings are built to be resilient, so
19:39
Speaker 2: they bend with the imposition of stress and then they
19:42
Speaker 2: return back to optimal function. Human beings can do that,
19:47
Speaker 2: but sometimes with resilience, we don't return back to optimal function.
19:50
Speaker 2: We return to optimal function in a little bit more aside.
19:53
Speaker 2: So we actually experience growth as a stress response to
19:58
Speaker 2: stress within limits. So the first thing I'm thinking about
20:02
Speaker 2: is if you have rituals and you have frameworks for
20:07
Speaker 2: your life, that gives you freedom because you need flexibility.
20:11
Speaker 2: Adaptability needs frameworks. So if I'm driving like today, I
20:16
Speaker 2: spent like a lot of time on the road and
20:20
Speaker 2: it exhausts me. And as I'm driving down the road,
20:24
Speaker 2: my sat nav said, well road is closed ahead. Well
20:27
Speaker 2: it's not like, ohhez, I'm never going to get to
20:29
Speaker 2: my next event. It was able to adapt and recalculate
20:32
Speaker 2: and put me on another road and I didn't lose
20:34
Speaker 2: it much time at all. Well what if I didn't
20:36
Speaker 2: have that structure, I didn't have that road map, Well,
20:39
Speaker 2: the roads closed, I'm screwed. So discipline lends the structure
20:44
Speaker 2: from which adaptability can flow. So a lot of people think,
20:48
Speaker 2: oh my god, all those rituals and structures, that's an
20:51
Speaker 2: imposition on No, it's a mechanism for freedom, not an
20:55
Speaker 2: imposition on it. So I think that's like one of
20:59
Speaker 2: the concepts around structure and discipline being an element, one element,
21:03
Speaker 2: not the element. Right, Like some people it is a
21:06
Speaker 2: spa day, you know, for some people, it's a Netflix day.
21:09
Speaker 2: For some people, you know what, it's just walking like
21:12
Speaker 2: in the evening around something scenic and just not overthinking
21:18
Speaker 2: and not being plugged in, leaving your phone at home.
21:21
Speaker 2: But like, look at it this way, Bowmuster's research on
21:26
Speaker 2: decision fatigue. So if discipline is glucose mediated functioning of
21:34
Speaker 2: the prefrontal cortex, so we need glucose to regulate the
21:38
Speaker 2: parts of our brain that allow us to say, Hey,
21:41
Speaker 2: you know what I really want right now is a
21:43
Speaker 2: piece of cake, but I also want to complete this project.
21:47
Speaker 2: Let me delay gratification. Right. We make enough of these decisions,
21:51
Speaker 2: and we're doing this throughout the day. We have a
21:53
Speaker 2: limited reserve. So let's say I wake up in the
21:56
Speaker 2: morning and it's like rather than just like hanging out
21:59
Speaker 2: and joy my coffee, I could do that, but I
22:02
Speaker 2: also know that that's where I'm most alert in those hours.
22:05
Speaker 2: I'm going to study and work really hard for the
22:08
Speaker 2: next two hours, and that's grueling. What did I do
22:12
Speaker 2: for the rest of the day. I actually decrease cognitive
22:16
Speaker 2: load because had I done that in the evening and
22:20
Speaker 2: had to be done. And when I have the least
22:24
Speaker 2: amount of mental reserve for discipline, I'm engaging in activities
22:29
Speaker 2: that require high level of focus. I'm not going to
22:31
Speaker 2: be optimal. But I just freed up all that cognitive
22:34
Speaker 2: load by getting that done through my own volition rather
22:40
Speaker 2: than being told to do that. I think that's powerful,
22:44
Speaker 2: but it's even more than that because I plan to
22:47
Speaker 2: do that. So that's an intention, right, So for neuroplasticity,
22:51
Speaker 2: for brainer, you need an intention, you need focus, and
22:55
Speaker 2: what really helps is relevance. So I'm doing this because
22:59
Speaker 2: it's important to me. So I just elevated my dopamine levels,
23:04
Speaker 2: dopamine and self efficacy. So look at how I'm priming
23:08
Speaker 2: my brain. I'm priming my brain to scan my environment
23:12
Speaker 2: for the rest of the day for goal seeking behavior
23:14
Speaker 2: to get my next dopamine hit. So I'm motivated to
23:17
Speaker 2: engage in goal seeking behavior. I've increased focus, I've increased awareness,
23:22
Speaker 2: I've increased the biochemistry for learning, for development, And because
23:28
Speaker 2: I'm elevating my dopamine levels, I'm also taking steps to
23:32
Speaker 2: kind of mitigate some of the biochemical responses to stress
23:37
Speaker 2: that make me less effective in everything. And I'm getting
23:40
Speaker 2: more confident doing it because I have some wins early
23:42
Speaker 2: in the day that makes my day easier, not harder.
23:45
Speaker 2: Like people think about effort as it's like, oh, this
23:48
Speaker 2: intense sacrifice. It is I need to choose one thing
23:51
Speaker 2: in lieu of another, But it doesn't necessarily mean you're
23:55
Speaker 2: suffering through it. It might actually alleviate some of that.
23:59
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, there was a lot there. There'll be
24:01
Speaker 1: a test everyone, it'll be emailed to you Tuesday. A
24:07
Speaker 1: couple of things. So the first thing is, so if
24:13
Speaker 1: we look at the analogy, which has been done a
24:15
Speaker 1: lot on this show, but it's relevant for right now.
24:18
Speaker 1: So let's go there again. You know, so I want
24:21
Speaker 1: to build strength, I want to build function, I want
24:24
Speaker 1: to build performance. I want to build muscular endurance, I
24:28
Speaker 1: want to increase my sporting performance or whatever. So I
24:31
Speaker 1: go to the gym and I do some kind of
24:33
Speaker 1: strength training whatever, kettle bells, body weight, traditional bodybuilding, pinloaded,
24:38
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But the bottom line is I go
24:40
Speaker 1: into the gym and I do something that's hard, and
24:44
Speaker 1: over time I do this thing called progressive overload or
24:47
Speaker 1: progressive resistance training. And over time, if I do it strategically,
24:52
Speaker 1: intelligently and consistently, I start to explore my physical potential.
24:57
Speaker 1: I get stronger, I build muscle, I get better. Right,
25:00
Speaker 1: It's very strategic and we know that. Well, Bobby, you
25:02
Speaker 1: were doing a ten kilo last week in the last
25:06
Speaker 1: few weeks, so maybe we'll go to a twelve and
25:07
Speaker 1: a half kilo dumbbell today. Let's see how that goes. Yeah,
25:10
Speaker 1: you're fine with that. Call. In two months now Bobby's
25:13
Speaker 1: doing the fifteen. Then in six months he's doing the twenty.
25:15
Speaker 1: It's been very strategic and there's a method, and it
25:19
Speaker 1: all makes sense. How do we apply that to building
25:24
Speaker 1: mental and emotional fitness and or resilience? Like, how do
25:29
Speaker 1: we you know, because as you said at some stage
25:31
Speaker 1: in that monologue, you know, too much is bad depending
25:36
Speaker 1: on you know, you throw someone in a situation that's
25:39
Speaker 1: they're just not mentally or emotionally ready for, that could
25:42
Speaker 1: have a catastrophic outcome. You give them too little, there's
25:46
Speaker 1: no adaptive response. So for people who go, you know what, Bobby,
25:50
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I want to build. I want to
25:52
Speaker 1: be more resilient mentally and emotionally. I want to be
25:55
Speaker 1: able to deal with hard things. I want to be
25:57
Speaker 1: able to navigate the bullshit and the mayem and the mess,
26:00
Speaker 1: unfairness and the injustice, because that's just going to happen
26:03
Speaker 1: along with the great stuff. Right, how do we is
26:06
Speaker 1: there a conscious, intelligent strategic I know there's no one
26:12
Speaker 1: process fits all, but how do we start the wheels
26:15
Speaker 1: turning on becoming more of that.
26:18
Speaker 2: I love that analogy, right because I bet at both
26:21
Speaker 2: ends of that. I've sustained some serious injuries in the
26:25
Speaker 2: gym because I'm an idiot. But if you spend six
26:27
Speaker 2: hours in the gym and you think, oh wow, you know,
26:30
Speaker 2: now I'm really going to see some results, you're going
26:32
Speaker 2: to see a result. It's just not the one you want.
26:35
Speaker 2: But you're better off spending a strategic sixty to eighty
26:38
Speaker 2: minutes over the course of several months a year's lifetime.
26:41
Speaker 2: You're gonna that's gonna be a payoff. I think when
26:46
Speaker 2: when you take a look at what is that sweet
26:48
Speaker 2: spot for me, it's where frustration meets curiosity. We're curious
26:52
Speaker 2: about things that are important to us, things that we're
26:55
Speaker 2: interested in. But if we're really applying ourselves to the
27:00
Speaker 2: point where we're facilitating learning because we are increasing our
27:06
Speaker 2: epionephical levels, let's say as the tue coline as well.
27:11
Speaker 2: So when you're like, you're like, when you're really focused
27:14
Speaker 2: on something, and it's kind of creating a little bit
27:18
Speaker 2: of frustration because it's hard to like get it and
27:21
Speaker 2: it's hard to stick with it. I think that's a
27:23
Speaker 2: really good sweet spot when it goes to like overwhelm
27:27
Speaker 2: that that's something that probably exceeds our adaptive capability and
27:33
Speaker 2: it can have the set I mean, you're not going
27:35
Speaker 2: to break your brain. Well, we hope not. So that's
27:37
Speaker 2: a little bit dramatic. I think starting out with things
27:41
Speaker 2: that reasonably fit. What's what's going on?
27:46
Speaker 1: Let me give you a specific question if I can
27:49
Speaker 1: go answer, because this is very specific to your life.
27:51
Speaker 1: In my life, public spaking. Not that someone's scared of
27:56
Speaker 1: public spaking they need to do. They don't necessarily want
28:00
Speaker 1: to become a bubby Capucco in front of audiences two
28:04
Speaker 1: hundred days a year, but they just want to be
28:06
Speaker 1: able to get in front of a group, maybe professionally
28:09
Speaker 1: one day, but they're terrified. What might be a protocol
28:15
Speaker 1: or a starting point for somebody in that position.
28:19
Speaker 2: I would test it. I would test it again in
28:22
Speaker 2: environments that cause you a little bit of fear, frustration, curiosity,
28:26
Speaker 2: but not overwhelmed. Start speaking up in a meeting. So
28:29
Speaker 2: when you say public speaking, I ask you from one
28:31
Speaker 2: to ten, right, what what is a level ten presenter
28:37
Speaker 2: in your mind? Right? So who would you describe aside
28:41
Speaker 2: from Craig Harper, because it's your podcast that is a
28:44
Speaker 2: level ten in public speaking? What is a what?
28:49
Speaker 1: Oh do you want to answer that or you just
28:50
Speaker 1: talking going sorry.
28:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, well who's who's a ten in your mind?
28:54
Speaker 1: Well, I mean in terms of again, there's like, there's
29:01
Speaker 1: so many forums like Joe Rogan's public speaker, but not
29:03
Speaker 1: in the way that people think. But every day he
29:05
Speaker 1: talks to a massive audience. It's got the biggest podcast
29:08
Speaker 1: in the world. He goes okay, but people wouldn't think
29:10
Speaker 1: of him when they think of a public speaker. But
29:12
Speaker 1: I guess, at the risk of sounding.
29:14
Speaker 2: Cheesy, and just see, he's a comedian.
29:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, that requires the time of scale, someone who's consistently
29:20
Speaker 1: done it well forever, love him or hate him, but
29:22
Speaker 1: it is Tony Robbins. And I mean I've seen Tony Robbins,
29:25
Speaker 1: as have you probably live and I've seen him talk
29:29
Speaker 1: for fourteen hours with hardly any rest and magically be
29:35
Speaker 1: just as good at the end as he was at
29:36
Speaker 1: the start. And I've got no fucking idea how he
29:39
Speaker 1: does it. So he'd be a ten on the in
29:42
Speaker 1: this conversation.
29:43
Speaker 2: And you know what, that's a safe choice. I mean
29:47
Speaker 2: most people I speak to wake Tony Rabins in one.
29:49
Speaker 2: But it doesn't matter what you think of him. The
29:51
Speaker 2: gay is remarkable in his abilities. So let's take Tony Rabins, right, Yeah,
29:56
Speaker 2: and then it's like, what does a one look like?
29:59
Speaker 2: And where where do you think you are? Right? So
30:02
Speaker 2: on a scale from one to ten, where are you
30:04
Speaker 2: sometime OPPORTUNEERZ? I think I'm a three? Okay? Well, first
30:08
Speaker 2: of all, what makes you with three? Right? We talked
30:10
Speaker 2: about ten and one? What makes a three? Why did
30:13
Speaker 2: you not rate yourself a one? I think that's really
30:16
Speaker 2: important because in between one and three is where you
30:21
Speaker 2: have a level of confidential. You believe that there's ability.
30:25
Speaker 2: Between one and three is what it is you want
30:27
Speaker 2: out of speaking. Between one and three is why you
30:30
Speaker 2: feel that you need to improve your skills. So let's
30:35
Speaker 2: take a look at what you already can do well
30:40
Speaker 2: between one and three. Now, what would a four look like? Yeah? Yeah,
30:45
Speaker 2: and walk me through what a number four would look
30:48
Speaker 2: like and feel like if you were speaking at a
30:52
Speaker 2: four level? What would happen and what would be the indicators?
30:57
Speaker 2: What's an environment that is relatively safe still challenging, where
31:01
Speaker 2: you could test that your next meeting, when you're sitting
31:03
Speaker 2: around with your staff, you know that thing that you
31:06
Speaker 2: don't want to say because you're worried about how it's
31:08
Speaker 2: going to come out, Take a chance and say it,
31:11
Speaker 2: but don't just say it. Practice saying it the way
31:15
Speaker 2: a number four would say it. Now, come out of
31:20
Speaker 2: that meeting. What happened, What was the result? What went
31:23
Speaker 2: really well? What was surprising? How did people react to?
31:27
Speaker 2: How did that feel in terms of what you were
31:29
Speaker 2: able to contribute? Because if you sat there and didn't
31:31
Speaker 2: say anything because you were worried about how you would
31:33
Speaker 2: be perceived, that's normal, that's understandable. That's not generosity. It's
31:39
Speaker 2: better to contribute when you're on a team. So how
31:42
Speaker 2: did that feel? Now? What would have made that a five? Okay,
31:47
Speaker 2: what's the next meeting after that? You know, so you know,
31:51
Speaker 2: somebody in my organization she wanted to she wanted to
31:56
Speaker 2: lead a mindfulness session for the organizations. It reached out, Hey,
32:01
Speaker 2: does anybody Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and do that.
32:04
Speaker 2: Now that might be a little bit of a bigger leap,
32:07
Speaker 2: But what could you volunteer for? You know, like, what
32:11
Speaker 2: is a small audience that you can get in front of,
32:14
Speaker 2: and every time you're getting in front of something that
32:16
Speaker 2: has relative safety but also a level of challenge, and
32:21
Speaker 2: it scares you a bit, Go ahead and do it
32:23
Speaker 2: and evaluate what did I do well? What would I
32:26
Speaker 2: have done differently if I could do that again? And
32:29
Speaker 2: now show me six, seven, eight, nine, ten one thing
32:35
Speaker 2: that I use when I'm training speakers. And this works
32:40
Speaker 2: because it's really funny and it kind of gamifies this
32:44
Speaker 2: and it's silly, but I'll tell you why it works.
32:47
Speaker 2: Where do you think you are as a presenter? Well,
32:50
Speaker 2: I think I'm about a four. Okay, stand up in
32:52
Speaker 2: front of this room of five, six, whatever. Sometimes it's
32:55
Speaker 2: like fifty people, and show us a number four. Okay,
33:00
Speaker 2: Now here's what I want you to do. Show us
33:04
Speaker 2: a number three, ah, number three? All right? Now, show
33:09
Speaker 2: us what a two and a one would look like.
33:13
Speaker 2: And sometimes we get ridiculous. So if someone was like
33:15
Speaker 2: a negative three public speaking, show me that. Now that's
33:21
Speaker 2: clear why it works, because if we're so worried about
33:25
Speaker 2: how we're being perceived, the assignment is screw up as
33:28
Speaker 2: bad as you possibly can have fun exaggerating the worst
33:32
Speaker 2: presentation you can ever imagine giving one, you're starting to
33:36
Speaker 2: laugh at yourself. Two you realize it's not so bad.
33:38
Speaker 2: Three if you really fail, you've just succeeded, so you
33:43
Speaker 2: don't have to feel self conscious and insecure. And then
33:46
Speaker 2: we take people back up. We take them back up
33:48
Speaker 2: to a one, to a two, to a three, to
33:50
Speaker 2: a four. But then we keep going. Now show me five,
33:54
Speaker 2: Now show me six. What would what would seven be like? Stop?
33:58
Speaker 2: Stop presenting just seven? Okay, demonstrate it. And then we
34:03
Speaker 2: take them up to ten. And what's interesting, and we
34:06
Speaker 2: don't expect anybody to be a level ten. It's like,
34:09
Speaker 2: oh wow, we did that exercise and you know Tony
34:10
Speaker 2: Robbins is a level ten. No, you're not going to
34:12
Speaker 2: be there. But what what you understand is by taking
34:18
Speaker 2: a risk and amplifying the way you communicate, you improve
34:24
Speaker 2: remarkably within the span of fifteen minutes. Now, if you
34:28
Speaker 2: can do that, what could you do in fifteen months? Yeah?
34:33
Speaker 1: I love it all right, I love that answer to
34:35
Speaker 1: the question. No, No, I like it a lot. I
34:38
Speaker 1: want to Okay. So with the same kind of question
34:46
Speaker 1: around how do I build resilience or how do I
34:50
Speaker 1: overcome this, whether it's social fear, anxiety, whatever it is,
34:54
Speaker 1: it's an intersection of things. I don't think it's a
34:56
Speaker 1: single thing. I think it's got to do with perceived
34:59
Speaker 1: self work and self esteem and imposter syndrome and previous
35:03
Speaker 1: experiences and it's a bunch of shit. But I think
35:06
Speaker 1: it's fair to say that a percentage of my audience,
35:11
Speaker 1: and maybe a percentage of the hosts on this show
35:15
Speaker 1: have experienced people pleasing or are people pleasers. And obviously
35:25
Speaker 1: it's not a great thing, and it gets in the
35:27
Speaker 1: way of a lot of things, or it can get
35:29
Speaker 1: in the way of a lot of things. As I
35:31
Speaker 1: always say, it's nice to be nice, but it's not
35:32
Speaker 1: nice to be a doormat. So how do we with
35:36
Speaker 1: this same kind of not necessarily the same approach as
35:40
Speaker 1: public speaking, but how would you work with somebody? And
35:43
Speaker 1: I'm only bringing this up because I know right now
35:46
Speaker 1: half of my audience are going, fuck, yes, Bobby, tell
35:48
Speaker 1: me how to deal with this because I'm such a
35:51
Speaker 1: people pleaser. Again, I know there's no simple solution or
35:54
Speaker 1: three step protocol. But because I think you, over the
35:59
Speaker 1: year have been a people playser a bit, and I
36:01
Speaker 1: know I have. When you know, I think both of
36:04
Speaker 1: us at times, and probably I don't know about you.
36:07
Speaker 1: I think I'm better at it than I used to be,
36:09
Speaker 1: but they're depending on the audience. Sometimes I'm still a
36:12
Speaker 1: fucking wanna be and a tryhad.
36:15
Speaker 2: For me, there's an irony there, if I'm honest with
36:18
Speaker 2: myself when I look back, when the more I tried
36:22
Speaker 2: to please people, the more I did the opposite. And
36:29
Speaker 2: I think I heard something. I forgot where I heard it,
36:32
Speaker 2: but was the other day it was like, and this
36:35
Speaker 2: is not for coaches, this is not but as a
36:38
Speaker 2: speaker or making your way out in the world, your
36:42
Speaker 2: job is to be divisive. Your job is to polarize people.
36:47
Speaker 2: And I love that, and they weren't talking about your
36:50
Speaker 2: job is to, you know, be so divisive, Like people
36:53
Speaker 2: listen to you and they're divided, but you are going
36:56
Speaker 2: to Your job is to attract people. But that also
36:59
Speaker 2: means you have to repel them, because if your message
37:04
Speaker 2: is palatable for everyone and you're trying to please everyone,
37:07
Speaker 2: you're not going to resonate with absolutely anyone. Really, And
37:12
Speaker 2: I thought, wow, isn't that Isn't that a great way
37:16
Speaker 2: of framing it? And I think when we look at
37:19
Speaker 2: these things like if you are going to be your
37:21
Speaker 2: own coach, you can use Whitmore's grow model, Like what
37:25
Speaker 2: exactly do you want? Like, like, let's get clear on
37:27
Speaker 2: the outcome first, Like what are we talking about to
37:31
Speaker 2: find the conversation to find the outcome the experience that
37:34
Speaker 2: you really want? What's most impactful to you about that?
37:38
Speaker 2: Right when that happens? What's different? What do you gain?
37:41
Speaker 2: What do you feel go through that? Who does it serve? Okay,
37:46
Speaker 2: what's the reality? How far apart are we? Right? So
37:50
Speaker 2: you could scale that if you want, Like I want
37:52
Speaker 2: to be at an eight, but I'm over here. Okay, Well,
37:56
Speaker 2: what are you What are some of your options, Like
37:58
Speaker 2: if you wanted to get better at something, whether it's
38:01
Speaker 2: like you know, not people pleasing as much because that
38:05
Speaker 2: could be pretty debilitating after a while, or whether it's
38:09
Speaker 2: to get better at a certain skill, like do a little
38:12
Speaker 2: brainstorm with yourself or someone else, What are all of
38:15
Speaker 2: the options you have in front of you to develop that.
38:20
Speaker 2: It could be taking a course, it could be next
38:23
Speaker 2: time I feel like I'm going to say no, I'm
38:26
Speaker 2: going to politely, empathetically but directly say no and take
38:33
Speaker 2: that risk and see that response, right, you know, keep
38:38
Speaker 2: going until you get like half a dozen ideas. When
38:40
Speaker 2: you look at that, what is what is the most reasonable,
38:46
Speaker 2: most exciting, or maybe even the least threatening options you
38:51
Speaker 2: just came up with. What are you willing to do
38:54
Speaker 2: in the next seven days? How are you going to
38:55
Speaker 2: go out and test that in the world. I think
38:58
Speaker 2: that's that's probable a pretty good system to use if
39:02
Speaker 2: you're self coaching. Does that grow? Right? What's the goal,
39:05
Speaker 2: what's the reality? What are your options? And what are
39:07
Speaker 2: you willing to do? Because if you're going to meet
39:10
Speaker 2: changes in any aspect of your life, you're going to
39:12
Speaker 2: have to meet changes in your brain and behavior change
39:16
Speaker 2: is probably one of the most effective ways to facilitate neuroplasticity,
39:21
Speaker 2: like to literally become someone different by doing something different.
39:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love the idea of doing different stuff,
39:32
Speaker 1: being in different rooms with different people, experiencing different cultures,
39:36
Speaker 1: different conversations, listening to people with different you know, opinions,
39:41
Speaker 1: ideas like the and I wrote something the other day.
39:47
Speaker 1: I can't remember the totality of it, but I was
39:49
Speaker 1: talking about essentially so much of social media anyway, is
39:54
Speaker 1: essentially opinions about other people's opinions right, It's like opinions
40:00
Speaker 1: of opinions of opinions, right, there's not that that don't
40:04
Speaker 1: confuse someone's opinion of someone else's opinion with information or truth.
40:09
Speaker 1: But I think one of the challenges for us is
40:13
Speaker 1: because we do, for better or worse, we do attach
40:18
Speaker 1: ourselves emotionally to our beliefs. And so when you have
40:23
Speaker 1: when your identity is somewhat intertwined with the thing that
40:27
Speaker 1: you think is the right thing, well, now it's very
40:31
Speaker 1: hard to be open minded because you don't want to
40:33
Speaker 1: be wrong. It's very hard to unlearn when you already
40:37
Speaker 1: know what the right thing is. So this and I've
40:41
Speaker 1: spoken about this a bit in the last year, but
40:46
Speaker 1: just the willingness to go I don't know or I'm wrong.
40:49
Speaker 1: We spoke about this a little bit, you and I
40:51
Speaker 1: with sitting on the fence. What the benefit of fitting
40:54
Speaker 1: sitting on the fence, I think, or maybe I was
40:56
Speaker 1: chatting with someone else, But just the willingness to go, look,
40:59
Speaker 1: this is what I think and what I believe, but
41:02
Speaker 1: I could be wrong. This is this has been my experience,
41:07
Speaker 1: and so this is what I think, but somebody else
41:09
Speaker 1: it could be different. And also you know, knowing that
41:13
Speaker 1: historically for me personally, how many things I've gotten wrong
41:18
Speaker 1: over the years, it would be one unintelligent to assume
41:24
Speaker 1: that I'm not getting things wrong today just because I
41:26
Speaker 1: don't want to get things wrong, or that I'm not
41:29
Speaker 1: going to get a lot of things wrong or make
41:31
Speaker 1: mistakes or be flawed moving forward despite my best effort
41:36
Speaker 1: to be you know, right for one of a better term.
41:42
Speaker 1: And so I guess that just that openness to be
41:45
Speaker 1: able to be okay with imperfection and being wrong and
41:53
Speaker 1: unlearning and saying, look, you know, I fucked up.
41:57
Speaker 2: You know, I think self awareness is definitely wants that.
42:01
Speaker 2: Reflection is another. Willingness is another. To make changes. Like
42:10
Speaker 2: we've been talking about this whole conversation, it requires very
42:14
Speaker 2: specific focus right around a specific thing and sustained effort.
42:20
Speaker 2: For me, that shows up in actively looking to engage
42:26
Speaker 2: with disconfirming evidence. And it doesn't mean when I do
42:30
Speaker 2: that that I automatically have to agree with it. I'm
42:35
Speaker 2: not looking to condone or condemn. I'm just looking to
42:39
Speaker 2: seek out an opinion that is one hundred and eighty
42:43
Speaker 2: degrees the opposite of mine and dig into why, what's
42:48
Speaker 2: the rationale, I think, because if you don't do that,
42:53
Speaker 2: I think there's a difference between having beliefs and beliefs
42:57
Speaker 2: that have you, And I think when your identity is
43:00
Speaker 2: inseparable with your belief system, your beliefs have you. And
43:04
Speaker 2: I think one litmus test of this is take a
43:07
Speaker 2: look at everybody around you. Does everybody around you believe
43:10
Speaker 2: the same thing that you believe? And for you that
43:14
Speaker 2: that can be very self affirming. Yeah, of course this
43:16
Speaker 2: is right. Everybody around me believes what I believe. Well,
43:20
Speaker 2: how much of an independent thinker am I if coincidentally
43:24
Speaker 2: everyone I associate with in my life has the same
43:28
Speaker 2: thoughts and opinions that I do. Yes, yes, First of all,
43:32
Speaker 2: if you're hanging out with ten people and like they
43:36
Speaker 2: all like think and believe exactly the same, none of
43:39
Speaker 2: them are redundant. Yeah. So that's something that I always
43:46
Speaker 2: ask myself, because I mean, I understand seeking consensus, this affirmation,
43:51
Speaker 2: this security. When we go back to like where we
43:55
Speaker 2: started in this conversation, self discipline is in fact self care.
44:00
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why is because it creates predictability.
44:04
Speaker 2: There's so many things in our environment that are not predictable.
44:07
Speaker 2: And the adverse effects of stress are not necessarily from
44:10
Speaker 2: the stress itself. It's stress related to our locus of control.
44:16
Speaker 2: The greater the lack of predictability, the greater the adverse
44:20
Speaker 2: response to stress. So like, when we have things within
44:24
Speaker 2: our environment that we can predict, it kind of helps
44:28
Speaker 2: us deal with stress. So if we look around and
44:32
Speaker 2: everybody thinks the same way, we think, well, that adds
44:35
Speaker 2: a little bit of predictability to the world.
44:38
Speaker 1: Did I ever tell you the time where I got
44:40
Speaker 1: a lady up on this stage to deal with her
44:45
Speaker 1: fear of public speaking and it didn't end well? Have
44:49
Speaker 1: you ever heard this story? No?
44:52
Speaker 2: I wonder why.
44:53
Speaker 1: Okay, So one of the things that I've done, I've
44:56
Speaker 1: not done it a lot since, but I've done it
44:58
Speaker 1: at least fifty times. And that's over thirty years of
45:02
Speaker 1: public speaking. So it's not actually maybe it's once a year,
45:06
Speaker 1: maybe it's thirty or forty times, but I've done it
45:08
Speaker 1: a fair bit. Where somebody and we talk about fear,
45:11
Speaker 1: We talk about you know, leading into the thing that
45:14
Speaker 1: you're scared of, the thing that's uncomfortable, and you know,
45:17
Speaker 1: how do we grow, learn evolve? You do thing that's
45:20
Speaker 1: a bit scary, and then you know, you get desensitized,
45:23
Speaker 1: and eventually the thing that's scared you doesn't scare you anymore,
45:26
Speaker 1: and your fear response goes from an eight down to
45:29
Speaker 1: a seven to a six, and then eventually it's a zero,
45:31
Speaker 1: and then you might even enjoy that thing. So not
45:34
Speaker 1: only are you not scared now, it's actually producing happy
45:38
Speaker 1: hormones and joyful hormones, not cortisole on adrenaline, this whole
45:42
Speaker 1: thing right. And then I go, now, with that in mind,
45:45
Speaker 1: who's terrified of public speaking? And I would get someone
45:49
Speaker 1: down the front and I'd say, look, just come down
45:52
Speaker 1: and I would just put my hand on their shoulder
45:54
Speaker 1: if that was appropriate, and i'd just talk to them.
45:56
Speaker 1: I go, don't look at them, look at me. So
45:58
Speaker 1: i'd do this and I'd say, where'd you draw from?
46:00
Speaker 1: And that's how I go, Okay, how long you been
46:02
Speaker 1: with the I go, no, worry about them, You're not
46:05
Speaker 1: just you and me. So I would talk to them,
46:08
Speaker 1: and then a minute or two in, I go, well,
46:10
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing. You're actually on a stage
46:12
Speaker 1: talking into a microphone and four hundred people are listening,
46:15
Speaker 1: and I go, so you're public speaking right, but but
46:18
Speaker 1: your you know, so this whole thing and they're like,
46:20
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I go so, you know, still scary. But
46:23
Speaker 1: so I did this with a lady. This was in Queensland,
46:26
Speaker 1: Queenstown in New Zealand, at the Hilton, a big auditorium.
46:32
Speaker 1: Lots of people get I do exactly what I just
46:36
Speaker 1: described to you, and I just start talking to the
46:39
Speaker 1: lady and then I see her face go white. So
46:42
Speaker 1: we're about forty five seconds in. Her face goes white,
46:47
Speaker 1: her eyes go back in her head, and she's she faints.
46:51
Speaker 1: She faints on stage in front of four hundred people.
46:56
Speaker 1: I catch her right, so she doesn't just clunk on
46:58
Speaker 1: the floor. So I catch her and I lay her
47:02
Speaker 1: on the And yeah, fair to say that wasn't the
47:10
Speaker 1: pinnacle of my speaking career or the demonstrating how we
47:15
Speaker 1: might overcome fear.
47:17
Speaker 2: I learned how to ski on the black double diamon.
47:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was as as okay as it could turn out.
47:26
Speaker 1: It did. I ended up giving her half a dozen
47:33
Speaker 1: free coaching sessions. I mean, she wasn't mad at me
47:35
Speaker 1: or anything. She was and obviously you know it did.
47:39
Speaker 1: It was a complete fuck.
47:41
Speaker 2: Up hot Like, did she ever get on a stage
47:45
Speaker 2: again or so she relative stage?
47:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah she did. So we ended up doing obviously,
47:54
Speaker 1: I came back and we did coaching. I can't remember
47:56
Speaker 1: how much. I think it was like five or six sessions.
47:59
Speaker 1: That was my way of apologizing and gifting her something
48:03
Speaker 1: that might be of value to her. But even before
48:06
Speaker 1: I left, she was fine.
48:08
Speaker 2: She was more.
48:11
Speaker 1: Not even embarrassed, but just like amazed. I guess, like
48:14
Speaker 1: she wasn't angry at me or and she didn't get hurt,
48:17
Speaker 1: but definitely you know one of those moments that you
48:20
Speaker 1: have as a speaker and you're like, why the buck
48:23
Speaker 1: did I do this? Like talk about Yeah, so that
48:28
Speaker 1: was the talk of the conference. The lady that Craig
48:31
Speaker 1: got on stage that he made faint so great, great example?
48:38
Speaker 2: Not it it made an impact?
48:41
Speaker 1: It did it? Did? He made? I love chatting to you.
48:44
Speaker 1: It's getting way towards or passed dinner time where you
48:47
Speaker 1: are tell people how they can have a little bit
48:50
Speaker 1: more Bobby in their life.
48:53
Speaker 2: You can go to Robert Caapuccio dot com. You can
48:55
Speaker 2: go to the stuff abantidote dot com, or just chat
49:00
Speaker 2: me up on LinkedIn.
49:01
Speaker 1: Perfect Thank you as always, before we go what's for dinner?
49:06
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm having brisket, look at you and what else.
49:11
Speaker 2: There's a lot to that story that I'm not going
49:14
Speaker 2: to get into, but uh yeah, I'm probably gonna have
49:17
Speaker 2: some corsa as well, maybe some broccoli.
49:22
Speaker 1: You're making me hungry. We'll say goodbye Fair, but thanks again.
49:25
Speaker 1: Thanks for being a big part of the show Mate.
49:28
Speaker 2: We love you, love talking to you, Jess.
49:30
Speaker 1: Thanks buddy,