Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / Episode 8: Funeral Home of Horrors

Transcript

Episode 8: Funeral Home of Horrors · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, True Crime Divas and dudes.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sarah and I'm Tina.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And welcome back.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sarah just got back from Europe literally last night.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: How was it?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Literally last night.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Literally.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm all like, I don't know what time of day it is or how much sleep I've had, or I just about know where I'm at.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know about true crime.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you do.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: You do know about true crime.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, we had a day in Paris and a few days in London, visiting family, sightseeing, all the fun stuff.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Took my kids to where I used to hang out when I was their age.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And my youngest is 19, so he can drink over there and he can't drink over here.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he was like, Woo! I know he had them all.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, kids these days don't really drink like when I was their age, so it's not the thing there anymore.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently, they sell more non-alcoholic beer and beverages in bars than they do alcoholic ones.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was surprised they were the same price as well.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like a mocktail was£10, and so was a cocktail.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not paying that for a mock tail.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's juice.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's fancy juices are mixed up, but it's soldist juice.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's so funny.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Britain has a um reputation for just having horrible food, but we had some amazing.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: I send you pictures.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, the she did send me pictures, y'all, and the food looked absolutely incredible.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you guys do have like the stereotype of like beans on toast and whatnot.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean you you have to understand, right?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because like, what is beans on toast?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's fantastic.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Don't mock it till you've tried.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can order it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: We had breakfast in a a pub one day.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was me and my kids, my husband, my mom, and my aunt.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And literally on the breakfast menu, you can order beans on toast.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you can also order a bacon sandwich.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Huh.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And my kids did not like the fact that bacon was different though.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, is it different?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, ri if you order regular bacon, it's there's no fat on it and it's not very crispy.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of juicy.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to order what they call streaky bacon if you want it to be American.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Ah.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: More like American bacon.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's good.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Again, don't knock it to you trout.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: I need to be more open-minded.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: But so we have fish and chips.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you used ketchup?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-uh.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hell no, I did not.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Did we tell them this story?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we have to, we have to get to the actual story, but I really need to say this.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So when we went on our trip to Bristol to a casino, we were eating, and I asked Sarah, like, what's the number one food you miss having?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, fish and chips.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, yeah, that's right.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: What do you dip it in?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like ketchup, tartar sauce.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And she looked at me like I was a fucking alien.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was so offended.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the longest pause ever.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually she's like, no, just vinegar.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, sorry.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Malt.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Malt vinegar.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's let's let's move on to our story.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, I'm back.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to be back.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I missed you.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I missed recording.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I did get um lots of feedback from family in England that have been listening.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they want us to cover some British stuff.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we definitely will cover some British stuff for sure.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And in the um after show for subscribers, I will reveal what my mysterious post about Fleach fee was.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to hear about that because I'm pretty ignorant.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So And if you look on wiki, it says it's fictional, but then my aunt was like, or was it?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of one of those urban myth things.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: It may have happened, it may have not.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, today's episode is about a true story.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Today on Deadly Divas, we are discussing the funeral home of horrors.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that is season one, episode four from the Curious Case of series on HBO and ID.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Which was the series that we got the cat cult from, right?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great series, y'all.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Go check it out if you haven't.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: This story, it's definitely one of those that's hard to listen to, but even harder to forget.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because this case doesn't just involve death, it involves betrayal at the exact moment families were at their most vulnerable.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, this may be one of the most disturbing scandals I've ever heard.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so get ready, but take it away, Tina.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So before we get into the nightmare of return to nature funeral home, we have to start with the really lovely promise they made to their customers, one that unfortunately turned out as too good to be true.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we are introduced to a growing movement in the funeral industry, something called green burials and green funeral homes.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: One legitimate example of this type of service is called Colorado Burial Preserve and Cremation Garden in Florence, Colorado, which is run by a woman named Emily Miller.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: It is an 80-acre property that functions as both a nature preserve and a cemetery.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't use embalming fluid or other harsh chemicals or anything that stops a body from returning naturally to the earth.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Families can actually see where their loved one is buried and even see the plants that their body helped to grow and nourish.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's probably mixed opinions on that whole idea, but I think it's nice.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And green burial is actually a rapidly growing market in the US.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: About 60% of people under 40 say they would consider this type of burial.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think I would.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I like about it, um, it reminds me more of how we do it in England.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's just a lack of space to bury coffins in England.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: They would eventually run out.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So cremation is a normal thing, but we bury the ashes.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of having like ashes sitting on your mantelpiece or whatever, you still have a burial site to go visit, but it takes up a lot less space.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we plant trees and bushes, and then you buy spots around that tree, and you get to see the tree.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're still burying the ashes in a container of sorts.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot cheaper than that.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it's mainly a space thing in England.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what people like about it the most, or what I get from it, to visit a graveyard is creepy.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you go because you want to visit your loved one, talk to them, whatever, but it's not a pleasant place to actually be hanging out, right?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas when I go visit my grandmother or my father, I'm sitting underneath a rose bush or a tree.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it and you're in a field.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: My dad's buried under a tree, so it looks like an orchard, basically, to go visit.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And my my grandmother's is more of like a bush.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have a spot reserved next to her.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yay.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um not yay, then you're gonna die.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and also I think because I'm gonna obviously have family in England and in America, and both of them are gonna want somewhere to visit.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And with ashes, you can split them up.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Bury some over there for my family over there to visit, and you know, bury some over here or whatever they want to do with it over here for my kids to visit.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love the idea, and it is very um prevalent, I guess is the word, in in Europe, just due to a space thing.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I also enjoy visiting my loved ones in somewhere that's that's pretty rather than a graveyard.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: A creepy graveyard.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Europe is so many leagues ahead of us on so many things.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, um, let me not get on a soapbox about that right now.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Remind me in the after show to tell you about my date that ended up in a graveyard.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so back-was this while I was away?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, this is many, many years ago.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Many, many years.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, back to the story.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this is exactly where the story takes a very dark turn because in Colorado Springs, another business was riding that same green earth-friendly wave, a funeral home that promised compassion, modern values, and a gentle, natural way to say goodbye.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was called Return to Nature Funeral Home, and it was owned by a married couple, John and Carrie Hallford.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: They marketed themselves as modern, gentle, down-to-earth, and environmentally responsible.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: They even post this awkward, almost gimmicky video online where they climb into a casket together.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: John jokes that it's terribly uncomfortable and asks Carrie to come inside with him.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to make death feel lighter, less scary, I guess, but I just thought it was weird.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, anyway, John says that he's a third-generation funeral professional and that his father ran a funeral home in Wagner, Oklahoma.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Carrie openly admits she's not a funeral director.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's just married to someone in the business.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: But John awkwardly calls her out in this video, claiming that she has dated other men in the funeral business.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: That was weird.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Very weird.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: She laughs about it and she says that she doesn't know why, but she's always just been drawn to funeral.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Red flag, red flag.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very red flaggy to me.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: But moving right along, um Maybe it was his brother or his dad.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing them, maybe.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so yeah, they opened Return to Nature in 2017, and they tell the public that they've always been passionate about helping families lay their loved ones to rest as naturally and humanely as possible.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: But you will very quickly learn that could not be further from the truth.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So now we meet the victims.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: First is Angelica Steadman from Pueblo, Colorado.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Her daughter, Chanel, was a lively little girl who loved being outside and building forts.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Angelica laughs when she tells a story about how a porcupine once moved into one of Chanel's forts and they had to evict it.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sadly, though, Chanel died on November 23rd, 2019.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Angelica was devastated, and like any mother would be, she was determined to find a funeral home that would take care of her precious daughter.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: How old was she during that?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think she was 19.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what's this sad?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Very sad.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So Angelica chooses the Return to Nature funeral home, and she says that John and Carrie seemed genuine, professional, and empathetic.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: John even spoke in a small memorial service for Chanel.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: At the time, Angelica truly believed she'd made the right choice.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now we meet Heather DeWolf from Colorado Springs.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: She's a mom of three boys.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Her oldest son, Zach, was what she described as a rebel, but with a really good heart.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: The documentary shows Heather and her two remaining sons sitting together, flipping through old photo albums of Zack and laughing.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: They look like a close, happy family.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Zach tragically died in 2020, and a family member referred Heather to Return to Nature.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: One detail that really stood out to her was that they told her they would plant a tree in Zach's name in Pikes Peak National Forest.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Heather says that she and Jack once planted trees together and it was a really happy memory.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: So she chose to have them cremate Zack and she trusted them.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: She believed that they would take care of her son.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: As you would.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Any funeral home.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have any reason to doubt otherwise.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I did notice that their personalities were very charismatic.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're definitely very typical of manipulating people, people who manipulate, I should say.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And narcissistic types.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so now we meet Christina Page from Westminster, Colorado.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: She is wearing a t-shirt with her son David's photo on it, and she keeps a vial of his ashes around her neck.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: She says that he struggled in life, and so she was hopeful that he could finally find peace in death.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: She also chose Return to Nature for her son's cremation and funeral.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: When she received his ashes before the funeral, she felt peace for the first time.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: She even traveled all over the country spreading his ashes.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sunrises in Acadia, Maine, and sunsets in Olympia, Washington.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: But even after all that, she says something still did not feel right.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she wasn't alone.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Other families felt it too.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: A strange, lingering feeling that their loved ones were not truly laid to rest.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: They just didn't know why.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that weird?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: They were all so by spring of 2023, cracks began to show at Return to Nature Funeral Home.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: They had two locations, and from the outside, everything looked mostly fine.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: But at the Penrose location, something seems a little off.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Emily notices the building looks a bit unkempt.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And just in case you guys don't remember, Emily is the owner of uh the burial and cremation nature preserve that we mentioned in the beginning.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so yeah, she notices that the building looks a bit unkempt and has weeds growing throughout the parking lot.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So she emails John and she offers to mow the weeds, but John replies and says no, that they've sublet the building starting April 1st.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So then the real bomb drops.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: We hear from Tyler Cunnington, a journalist with a no with a local news station in Colorado Springs.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: On October 3rd, 2023, the station receives a tip.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Neighbors near their funeral home have been complaining about a horrific smell.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: So a government agency then contacts John and schedules a walkthrough to make sure that everything is on the up and up.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: But the next day, John never shows up.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So deputies get a warrant.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when they open the front door to the return to nature funeral home, they encounter a real life nightmare.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you listening who are squeamish, you may want to turn your volume down for this next detail.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: So there are bodies in various stages of decomposition stacked everywhere.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: The entire floor is covered in shin-deep brown sludge consisting of decomposition matter, blood, and other bodily fluids.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: They have to wear hazmat suits.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: The building is declared a biohazard and flies are just everywhere.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: The smell is unmistakable.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So at a press conference, Fremont County Sheriff Alan Miller says that they're focused on the investigation and the victims.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: When asked if the owners are cooperating, he says, so far, yes.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But we are later going to learn that that was not necessarily the truth.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, per the professionals in the funeral industry, here's what should have happened to these bodies.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: They have to be embalmed, refrigerated, cremated, or otherwise properly cared for within 24 to 48 hours.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, they begin to rapidly decay.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Return to Nature marketed itself as a green funeral home, but they so they usually didn't embalm.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: They focused on cremation.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the problem they didn't have a cremation facility.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: So they were that part.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Literally.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So they were supposed to temporarily store bodies and then transport them to a crematory, which means refrigeration should have been a massive part of their operation.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: But now we meet Blanca Eberhard, who has been a mortician for 20 years and works for the State of Colorado emergency preparedness and response team.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And Blanca explains that yes, they had refrigeration rooms, but they weren't functional.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: They did not have working compressors or other vital equipment.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: They were just empty shells.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And yet those so-called refrigerator rooms were filled, stacked, bodies piled on top of bodies.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So at least 115 bodies are discovered at first.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And now comes one of the most horrifying parts of this entire case.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Investigators must identify the bodies one by one and then call the families.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, imagine being the person who has to sift through all of those decomposing human remains and then pick up the phone and tell a mother what you just found.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can you imagine?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder what they had to say to them.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, I'm sorry to inform you that your loved one was not cremated and we've just found their bodies' remains.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Just I cannot imagine.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't imagine getting that call either.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Just horrible.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: So Christina, one of the mothers who used Return to Nature funeral home to care for her son's remains, sees the news about the bodies.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And while she's horrified at the situation, of course, she doesn't think it could possibly involve her son because he died four years earlier.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: But on October 24th, she receives the call.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Her son is in fact one of the bodies.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: The coroner explains to her that her son had been dumped out of his body bag, placed in a non-working refrigeration room, other bodies stacked on top of him, and left there to rot for four years.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And now Christina realizes something unthinkable.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: The ashes she has been carrying around her neck for years are not her son.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And once cremation happens, DNA is destroyed.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So she'll never know whose remains she actually has.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was interesting that she felt like she did have human remains, just not her human, whereas a lot of the other people didn't even have human remains, did they?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we're gonna get to that, and which is just another horrible, horrible detail of all this.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, somehow it gets worse.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and here we go.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Inside the building, investigators find concrete mix and a grinding machine.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: The logical conclusion: families were being given cement instead of human remains.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And Angelica, whose daughter Chanel was supposed to have been cremated, looks at the urn that is supposed to contain her daughter and she asks herself, Is this my daughter or is this cement?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So she pours some of the ashes into a glass jar with water.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And after sitting, it hardens like concrete.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So she says, of course, that that felt like a knife twisting in her heart.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Where is my daughter?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: She asks.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Heather, another poor mother who again used Return to Nature funeral home, goes through her son's ashes and something rises to the surface.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: A bolt.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: They also find metal discs in the remains.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: She says her son Zach had no implants or medical devices in his body.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: While she does believe the ashes she has are human, she doesn't believe they are her human.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And she wonders if I have somebody else's loved one, where is my son?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So meanwhile, the investigation into Return to Nature continues, and the number of bodies climbs to 189.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: So at first authorities say the Hallfords are cooperating, but then they disappear.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Their landlord says they left in such a hurry that food was still sitting on the table.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Their phones were also shut off, possibly to avoid being tracked.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm sorry, but at this point, shouldn't they have had them like not able to leave the state or I don't know.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just it feels like something slipped through the cracks there.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think maybe, and this is pure speculation.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we don't know what happened, but like maybe they did not realize just how bad this was until it was too late.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the 115 bodies, you'd probably definitely there's a problem, but maybe at that point, but it says they were cooperating and then they disappeared.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just think that some something there somebody wasn't checking all the boxes in the right place for them to have that opportunity.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I get that impression personally.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I would have to agree.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if I was one of these victims' family members, like I'd be pissed.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, what the crap, yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, they disappear and their landlord says they left in such a hurry that food was left sitting on the table, their phones were shut off, and the Penrose community is left confused and enraged, like rightfully so.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: They put up angry signs outside the funeral home that say, demolish this place and arrest the Hallfords.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: I would think it's a biohazard and it everything within a certain amount of yards would have to be like burned or something.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get rid of?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't imagine like being somebody who either lives nearby or has to go to work nearby every day.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of bleach.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a lot of bleach, y'all.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So meanwhile, Blanca and her colleagues start digging on their own.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And what do they find?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: John traveling the country, living his best life.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's trying to launch a career as a stand-up comedian, literally telling jokes on stage to laughing crowds while nearly 200 human beings are decomposing in his funeral hall.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, John, you are the joke.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Literally.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So Blanca also describes the Hallford's social media presence as fake and laughable.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Luxury trips, cosmetic procedures, expensive dinners, a picture perfect marriage.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I saw the$1,500 steak in Las Vegas.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they have money for a$1,500 steak, but they didn't have the money to cremate your loved one, even though you paid them.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or to pay for refrigeration to properly work.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we soon learn just what a facade that picture-perfect marriage image actually was.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: John graduated Mortuary School in 2010, but back in 2006, when he was 26, he tried to get into politics.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: He ran for city council in Muskoke, Oklahoma.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: During that time, John and another man put on ski masks, broke into a home, and held a group of women having a girl's night in at gunpoint as a joke.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that didn't they have like L 15s or something?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: They had guns.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not funny.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's not funny.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, can you imagine relaxing with your girlfriends?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're doing facials, you're drinking wine, and two masked intruders with assault weapons break in and hold you hostage.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely terrifying.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And any man who thinks that's funny or a joke is a literal psychopath.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think this situation gives us a pretty good look into John's psyche.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, he pled guilty to a misdemeanor, got community service.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he got some community service, and thankfully his political career was over.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: But now comes the interview with John's former mistress.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Mistress says, and while he was married, while yes, yes.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the mistress says that she was involved with John for about a year and a half.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Her father was diagnosed with cancer in 2017 and died in 2019.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: She was searching for a green funeral home when she found Return to Nature.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: But John immediately began texting her, expressing a romantic interest and desire to get to know her on a more personal level.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's what you expect from your funeral director.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So as they became closer, he told her he did almost everything behind the scenes in the funeral home, that he truly cared about his customers and that I know, right?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that Carrie was the devil and obsessed with profits, encouraging him to cut as many corners as possible to fund their lavish lifestyle.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And his stand-up comedy.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: So uh he also complained about the failing compressors in the refrigerators where the bodies were stored.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: He said he had to move bodies out of refrigeration rooms to fix them and sent the mistress photos of this, which is another rad flit, red flag, because what the fuck?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you sending pictures of strangers' dead bodies so nonchalantly?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really hot.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Did this woman not have major concerns at how he was treating these bodies?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like her father wasn't there.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um but anyway, he told her that he built the compressors himself to save money, and he admitted he knew the equipment was failing months before the raid, but he never fixed it.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And this this is his excuse.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is like this is like it's not me, it's Carrie.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, but by the way, I knew it was happening and I'm moving bodies around.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that that does not add up.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, this woman was obviously vulnerable after losing her father, and John mirrored her spiritual interests, like chakras, crystals, and energies.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually that relationship turned sexual, but immediately after he ghosted her.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because he's such a stand-up guy, stand-up comedy, but such a stand-up guy.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um now to be clear, she knew he was married.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: She's not innocent here, but that doesn't erase the bigger picture.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like this man was working inside a funeral home and he was using grief to access women who were emotionally broken and take advantage of them.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, on top of everything else we've heard so far, this really continues to paint a picture of a manipulative, possibly narcissistic predator.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, skipping forward a bit, one day the mistress says her best friend calls her and asks for the name of the funeral home her creepy ex owned.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: She says I hope she worded it like that.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I hope she did.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's the name of that funeral home, your creepy ex owns?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I really want to bury somebody with your creepy ex All right.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And she says, Return to nature.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Her friend responds, Return to Nature is under investigation by the FBI.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So now that we've painted a very clear picture of John, let's pivot to Carrie.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Was she clueless, complicit, or the mastermind?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: John seemed to paint her as the mastermind, the one who put profits over people, but I don't necessarily believe that.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they're equally at fault.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: In my opinion, they both participated in these horrible practices and they both shared in the wealth it brought them.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that they they both knew what was going on and covered it up because how could you not know?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the point that he said, Oh, I knew the compressors were broken and I'm moving bodies around, there had to have been a smell then.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can't say I didn't know what was going on.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was all her, it was all him.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they both were in on some.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they both were complessive, definitely in and knew what was going on.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I 100% agree.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they planned it together or just one of them went that way and the other one went along with it.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: But there's no way that either one of them was innocent in this.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely not.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the victims also say that Carrie was deeply involved.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a reporter claims that Carrie would sit in the car while John pushed wheelbarrows full of bodies into the Penrose funeral home.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And allegedly she joked, and I'm so sorry, y'all, because this is so disgusting.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: But she said, I got people juice in my mouth.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can you get me a double cheeseburger for dinner?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that line also tells you everything you need to know about the level of sheer inhumanity happening here.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just vile.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: But so here's the part that makes this even more infuriating.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: At the time, Colorado did not require funeral directors or embalmers to be licensed.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: What the fuck?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why these people went to Colorado to open these places.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, and yeah, and remember Blanca, the mortician who's been in the business for 20 years.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: She says that in the funeral industry, Colorado is considered a joke.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the saying is if you can't pass your boards or if you lose your license somewhere else, just move to Colorado.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually the manhunt ends, thankfully, and the Hallfords are found at John's father's home in Wadner, Oklahoma.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: They are arrested and they are charged with theft, forgery, money, money laundering, and 190 counts of abuse of a corpse.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: But here's another cruel layer.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Heather DeWolf is not officially listed as a victim because Zach's body was not found.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: She says they kidnapped her son and she still has no idea where he is.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Angelica says she's also left in limbo, not knowing what truly happened to her daughter.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because remember, earlier in the story, she added what she thought was her daughter's ashes to a glass of water and it hardened like concrete.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they didn't find her body either?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, they didn't.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes you realize that they're they were doing something else with bodies as well.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: So And there's so much we don't know.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And those poor families will probably never know.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so after a pretrial hearing with the Hallfords, Heather and Christina confront them outside the courthouse and they very emotionally shout things like, What did you do with my son?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Where's my baby?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have to start digging up graves with spoons?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these poor mothers, like not only are their children gone, they have to continue living with this rage and these unanswered questions.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, meanwhile, the Hallfords are let out on bond.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And while out, they stay in a local hotel.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: They start making food deliveries like DoorDash as a way to earn an income since their funeral home of horrors, cash cow, is now done for.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: This means that at any moment, a victim could open their front door and see the people who desecrated their child delivering their food.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I immediately thought as well?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: These people that were dealing deliberately with needy body decompositioning and now touching my food.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like I'll be blunt, if I can't trust you with something as sacred as a dead human being, I sure as hell don't trust you with handling food, especially when there's a very real chance that they could be delivering to a family member who helped expose them.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, these people have already proven to be completely lacking in any integrity or basic decency.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: So who knows what they could have done to that food for revenge.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: But now it makes me wonder the history of anybody delivering any food to me.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Never don't ask again.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's the lesson here.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so not long after that, the state makes a plea offer.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: In July, prosecutors offer a deal.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: John would receive 20 years, Carrie would receive 15 years, both in exchange for pleading guilty to all of the abuse of corpse charges.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: But the families were not on board with that deal.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: They believe, and I agree with them, that if a jury had been forced to sit in a courtroom and listen to these stories, these mothers, and listen to what was done to their children and to the pain and the trauma that they will go through for the rest of their lives, the punishment would have been much harsher.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a little 50-50 on that because I also feel that no jury should have to have been put through because there probably would have been pictures and I get that it traumatized the parents, and if it had been one of my children, I get that there there's nothing that can make up for that.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: But putting another um group of people through I don't know.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm a little mixed on that.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and I hear you, but I mean this is America, like it's your civic duty.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: But there could be something in between.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than a jury trial or a plea deal, couldn't there have been a non-jury trial or you know what I'm saying?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I agree because this is so that they could be heard without another whole group of people having to experience because you'll never forget those pictures.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you were on that jury, I get that it's your civil duty, but you'll never forget the pictures.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I feel like just listening to them describe it, you you can picture it and like almost smell it yourself.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because the imagination can be worse than pictures.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that jury would never forget that.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I get that, you know, sometimes you have to be on a jury of something that you will hear things you're never gonna forget.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: But if it can be avoided in a situation as gross as this, there's something in between the plea deal and the jury, in my opinion.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I agree.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: If they could have worked something out like that, that would have been great.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: But there are some recent updates on this, and I'll get to those in just a bit.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: So even now, of course, there are still massive unanswered questions.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: We still don't know what happened to many of the missing victims.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: The former mistress claims John once told her he was working on a so-called water cremation device, a green process that dissolves the body instead of using extreme heat.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that implication is chilling.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: It suggests that he may have planned to eventually catch up on the backlog of bodies.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: But even if that was the case, why was he out taking luxury vacations, trying to launch a stand-up comedian career, and doing literally everything else but his duty to his paying customers?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: But there's no proof of that water cremation device.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, we may never know what his true plan was.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see a device?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: It looked weird.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Weird.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was like having a cooker pot.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was very weird.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and like fine, if that's a legitimate process, okay.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: But also don't take my son's body and tell me it's being cremated and then do something else with it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so for Heather DeWolf, the damage is permanent.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: She says that she has nightmares and hears her son calling her name and she cannot find him.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was gonna mess with your mind.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Christina says that she can never think about her son again without also thinking about what the Hallfords did to him.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the part that really hits me the hardest.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: These families already lost their children, their sons, their daughters, their entire world at a young age.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: At a young age, and now they don't even get the comfort of knowing where their loved one is.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have a place to visit, they don't have any remains they can trust, they don't get closure, and they don't have any peace.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, closure's the big word there, because even though they've already passed and there's nothing you can do about that, you want them to be treated with respect.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: So on November 22nd, 2024, the Hallfords officially pled guilty to 191 counts of abuse of a corpse.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: At that time, both were facing up to 20 years in prison.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And while that brings us to the end of the documentary, I found some very recent updates on this case I want to share with y'all.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I haven't heard these.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot wait.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay, and this is very recent.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: So on February 6, 2026, John Hallford was sentenced to 40 years in a Colorado State prison after pleading guilty to 191 counts of corpse abuse.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: The sentence will run concurrently with his prior 20-year federal sentence for wire fraud, which he received in June 2025 for misusing COVID-19 relief funds.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that also backs up the fact that it wasn't just Carrie that was the evil one.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: This guy with his balaclaver girl's night.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's terrorizing.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then so he did stuff before this and he did stuff since this that proves that he's just not on the up and up.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: That he's a scumbag.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: That is my official opinion.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Scumbags.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: So Carrie Hallford, meanwhile, she also pled guilty to similar state charges and is scheduled to be sentenced on April 24th, 2026.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Prosecutors are seeking a sentence of 25 to 35 years for Carrie.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: After a judge initially rejected prior agreements, plea deals were accepted in late 2025 following mediation.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Many families said they wanted a trial, but ultimately recognized the deals provided significant and guaranteed prison time.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the funeral home property in Penrose was thankfully demolished in April of 2024, and the site was cleaned and disinfected.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how did they do that?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: No amount of disinfection.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, sorry.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to it needs to now be like a rubbish dump.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, not a rubbish dump.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: What's it called?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Trash, trash dump or um No, what is English?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: How are we not remembering?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, take stuff to the dump, but a landfill.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Landfill.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think we just don't use this property ever again for anything because A burn it.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, A, it's disgusting.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: But B, think of all of the people who were in there rotting.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just feel like it would be a great disrespect to them and their families if you like put a fucking McDonald's there.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just leave it alone.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so anyway, in response to this scandal, we do have some good news.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Colorado passed SB24-173 in May 2024, which strengthens regulations, licensing, and inspection requirements for funeral homes statewide.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, or they have to be licensed now, right?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: They have to be licensed.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that true crime divas and dudes is the funeral home of horrors.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: You have any final thoughts?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many thoughts.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Go, go for it.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just, uh, did they testify against each other?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or did they stay together till the end?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because they were ch they were sentenced, um, well, she hasn't been sentenced yet, but it sounds like everything was done separately as far as charges and sentencing and everything goes.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just curious if they um not testified because it didn't go to court, but did they tell on each other?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Did they stay true to each?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like both of them are the type of person that would stab the other thing.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Turn you the turn on you and a dime.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they probably did, if I had to guess.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that, but they yeah, like you said, they just seem like that type of people.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm hoping that they were taken into custody while they were sorting out these plea deals and pending sentencing and all of that stuff.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, hopefully they weren't roaming around or disappearing again.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and terrorizing this community that they have already traumatized.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And as for what happened to the additional mi missing bodies, I mean, I guess those those parents will never know, probably.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: They'll never know, and that's one of the worst things of this whole thing.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: I um that's my question in my brain is if they couldn't be bothered to dispose of them properly, they obviously didn't burn them, they didn't bury them, they weren't piled up there.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what the hell happened to those?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just baffled.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because even if it had completely like disintegrated, just like bassid or whatever, you still end up with a skull or something, don't you?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: So what in the world happened to it?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously they were getting actual ashes from somewhere.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: So whose ashes are those?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Where are they getting those?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like Unless they were just burning some in the backyard and screwing some more, or yeah.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: But then I feel like there would have been some evidence of that.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: That the cops would have found.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it and it blows my mind that there were bodies there that were at least four years old, but they had only recently abandoned it.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they were working.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: They were working in these conditions with these smells.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: I find that very hard to believe.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no way.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of questions that we'll probably unfortunately never have answers to.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm wishing, you know, as much peace and healing as possible to all of these families.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that is it.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: As always, we hope you enjoyed today's episode.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, be divas.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not deadly.