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Separating the Art from the Artist · Pop Culture Junkie®

0:00
[Music]
0:27
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of Pop Culture Junkie Podcast.
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I am joined by one of my fellow junkies this evening and her name is...
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Olivia.
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Our dear Junkie Nicole is still on some extravagant adventure. I don't know.
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She's still upset with her for me.
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On the mood.
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On the mood.
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She's better some shit.
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Yeah, well for me.
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How are you girl?
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Yeah, why do you hate us?
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Why didn't you invite us?
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When did you decide that you hated us?
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[Laughter]
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No, I don't.
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Why do you want us first?
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I hope you're living your best Lord of the Rings, LARPing.
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Oh my god if Nicole is a LARPing, I would love that for me deeply.
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But I feel like you kind of have to think that as an American going to Australia, New Zealand,
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India, you know.
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That you're LARPing.
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I've always actually looked...
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I've kind of wanted to LARP.
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Okay.
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Because I like...
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You like a cosplay, you're like a Jason.
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I cosplay.
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I play Dungeons & Dragons.
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Because the next logical step is to live action.
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Is a LARPing.
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I agree.
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Absolutely.
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What'd you do with me?
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Maybe.
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That's a yes fan.
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[Laughter]
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One thing about me is I will always say yes to everything.
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You absolutely will.
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I've texted Olivia so many times and I'm like, "I have two tickets to this band.
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Do you want to come?"
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She goes, "Okay."
1:45
Do you even like them?
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Oh.
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That's why I'm traveling so much this year.
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Every single person in my life last year was like, "Do you want to go on this trip?"
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I said, "Yes."
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And did not look at calendars.
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That's how I went on three trips in 11 days.
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Oh my God.
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Jetset baby.
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Jetset baby.
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So what have you been obsessed with this week, Olivia?
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Okay.
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We're not entirely sure when this episode is coming out.
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But at this moment in time, it is tortured poets release from...
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Oh, my God.
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I know.
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I told you it was going to be in sufferable.
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I know.
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I gave you like four to six weeks advanced notice.
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You really have.
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Like, we're going out to dinner this weekend and she goes, "Oh, I'll go.
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I just want you to know I'm going to be in sufferable."
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And I said, "I'm going to be so hung up."
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I know this and I love you.
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I'm going to be so hung up on lyrics.
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I'm just going to have an existential crisis.
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I'm probably going to be a little depressed.
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But so today, Taylor Swift has been made those playlists.
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We talked about that already.
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However, she made the firestaves of grief playlist and that was really the only promotion
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that she had done for tortured poets.
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Then she released like the scavenger hunt of her capitalizing letters only on Apple Music.
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So Apple Music Besties really had to do the work.
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Thankfully, we all have TikTok.
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So she was capitalizing letters to find this hidden code or whatever.
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We don't know what it fully is yet because LaLastay is Wednesday.
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It comes out Thursday night.
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And so I hereby conduct is the words that we know at this exact moment in time.
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People think it's going to say autopsy.
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I watched that.
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So you have been a relationship?
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I watched that video that she posted today, whatever this air is.
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And it's her going through like a door in a nice bedroom and then it kind of goes into
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a hospital hallway.
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It's more like a department hallway, like of a stuffy old library.
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Maybe that's it.
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It's very sterile.
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But yeah, she had lightings.
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The midnight bedroom and walks into the tortured poets department.
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And they did this library installation today and through the release of tortured poets.
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There's all these Easter eggs and they're like releasing all of these lyrics.
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And up until today, I was like, I am doing so well.
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I am so grounded in reality.
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I'm doing so well with this release and then she did it.
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And I for the last two hours, they changed the lyrics that they had displayed like in the
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book and lost it.
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It's not pretty.
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I'll get it.
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If I went down a rabbit hole.
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So she was working today.
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Speedy.
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I did until they changed the lyrics and 2PM Pacific time.
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I'm sick.
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They put up this crazy like QR code and it was T.S.S.S. and 13's.
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Was the entire code and people were hemmed to eat it.
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So it was crazy.
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It was crazy.
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They're fucking mine.
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No, it was a Spotify thing.
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And so yeah, I really, I really was like, wow, I'm doing so good.
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Everyone thinks it's going to be a double album drive.
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Everybody thinks that my mental stability is not good.
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No.
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It shows them.
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By the time this comes out, it will have released.
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I just know I'm on while.
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I know.
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You were on while.
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We're going to go to Taylor Swift Bingo at our favorite bar, the casual pine central
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phoenix on Thursday.
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And it's Taylor Swift themed.
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It's Taylor Swift's single.
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It's Taylor Swift's single.
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And I go, but with 45 second clips of the songs.
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I fully expect you to just be feral and foaming at the mouth of the entire time.
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I do take full credit for forcing the M2 to do that the first time.
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And then it was so successful.
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So they started doing it with us.
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And I'm really excited.
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We are making bring slits for it.
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Oh, we've made a lot of bracelets.
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We made, I've made more since you left that night.
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But I finally got Sean to watch the Aristotle and we made 30 bracelets and countless.
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It was so good.
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I really liked it.
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It was amazing.
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It was amazing.
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The set pieces, the costumes.
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Yeah.
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It was great.
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I get it.
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I get it.
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So I get it.
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The only thing on my brain and.
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The single rounds, Coachella performance, it was amazing.
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Everything I've ever wanted.
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I haven't watched a lot of the Coachella performances.
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It was great.
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Sabrina Carpenter was amazing too.
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You know what I really enjoy is that Kesha came out.
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Yes.
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And she changed.
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She changed.
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Yes.
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Wake up in the morning.
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Like, fuck, P diddy.
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Yeah.
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That's just the perfect.
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Yeah.
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I don't think you want to wake up feeling like P diddy at the exact moment in time.
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Absolutely.
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A little.
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Oh, it's a little felonious.
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Felonious.
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Yeah.
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Felonious.
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Felonious is a great word.
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Yeah.
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It is.
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Felonious.
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Well, my, what I've been obsessed with is very different from yours, but that's okay.
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That's why we love each other.
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So I talked about X-Men 97 recently on the podcast, but it's been going insane, dude.
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This show is just, I cried at a cartoon.
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I cried anime.
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That's not unusual for me.
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You crying?
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Never.
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Me emotional.
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We're not emotional women.
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That's absolutely annoying.
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I never felt like feeling in my life.
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When I broke my foot, I didn't cry just.
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You whimpered like a dog.
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I whimpered, but no tears were shed.
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Yeah.
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You whimpered like a dog.
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It was really, it was, I woke up thinking a dog was outside our window hurt.
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I didn't want to wake you up.
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You did.
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I didn't understand the gravity of the situation at the time.
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Neither did I.
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Seeing by, oh yeah, from our last episode, update listeners, my foot is broken.
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A fully broken.
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Oh, it was broken in the last episode too, but now I can walk.
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Now I can walk a little bit on a walking boot.
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Anyway, so I've been watching a lot of TV and playing a lot of Sims.
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I made the spice girls and the Sims, like I told you.
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I love that so much.
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I custom made each of their faces with pictures of them, up zoomed in.
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I made sporty spices gold teeth.
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I put their tattoos.
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I have them in beautiful outfits.
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Sporty spice, the original grills, girly.
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I mean, the original white girl appropriated grills, gold or maybe.
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She did it before Nelly.
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That's all I know.
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Oh shit.
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Nelly versus Sporty Spice.
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I think celebrity deathmatch.
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I think it's just a video of a Nelly concert and there were like five people there.
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No, I would see Nelly.
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Nelly.
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Please comment be on the podcast, please.
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We've gotten so sidetracked.
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We'll bleep that out if you come on the podcast.
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If we, oh, five people in the concert.
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And that you're going to fight Sporty Spice?
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Oh no.
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Well, take a revisionist.
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Oh, revisionist.
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Yeah.
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If you come on the podcast.
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Anyway, okay.
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Backtrack, backtrack, spice girl, Sims.
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I've been watching X-Men 97.
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I'm going to do a quick spoiler alert.
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If you are not caught up on X-Men 97, this is going to talk about episode five of the show.
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The first four episodes were supposed to be nostalgic and like, oh my god, their conflicts
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are going to be a little light and fluffy.
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The creator came out and said that episode five is going to be more or less their 9/11.
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What the fuck?
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Yeah.
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Who says that?
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The creator of X-Men 97.
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It's going to be the 9/11 of the.
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Like the actual universe.
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The actual universe.
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They had a terrorist attack in episodes five of X-Men 97.
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And it's the episode where everything kind of changes.
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So it's, okay, again, spoiler alert for episode five.
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It is called "Remember It."
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And it takes place.
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There's this island called Genocha.
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I won't go into the deep-seated marvel details of what Genocha is.
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But in this universe, it is an island where mutants, which are what the X-Men are.
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They're all mutants, right?
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It's kind of their paradise.
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So mutants can come and be themselves, expose their powers and just know hiding what you are,
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right?
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You can just be fully yourself.
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So Gambit, Rogue, and Magneto go to Genocha to talk about Magneto participating in some
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kind of, I don't know, leading their nation, right?
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He says he'll only do it if Rogue is involved in his queen.
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Him and Rogue, they say had a relationship.
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Magneto's hella old.
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And Rogue is not.
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Oh, okay.
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But it's kind of hot.
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And in the comics, they definitely had like a relationship a little bit too.
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In the live-action movies, yes.
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So imagine Ian McKellen and Anna Pacquan making out.
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Exactly.
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And that's not making out with anyone.
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It's good.
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I guess not old people.
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Yeah, but imagine that now animated.
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Yeah.
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And imagine that the guy who is also pining after her, but she can't touch, is chanting
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Tatum because he's supposed to play Gambit for the past like 15 years.
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So Gambit is one of my favorite X-Men.
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He's my husband's favorite X-Men.
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And him and Rogue have always had this kind of like will they won't they kind of sell
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there both from the sale of the real horny.
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You probably seen the X-Men movies right because you know, Anna Pacquan, she can't touch
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anyone or they will broken die.
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She can touch Magneto because his magnetic powers kind of counteractors.
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So he's the only person that she can have skin to skin.
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It's like a sad thing.
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And Pacquan picking these people where it's like true blood.
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Kind of these old.
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Well, the older, the younger.
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Oh, the Southern.
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They just have this thing about them that no one else has power wise.
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Like she can't touch.
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She can't read their mind.
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We got to talk about that.
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We got to talk about that.
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To be fair, she's not the voice of Rogue in the show.
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The voice of Rogue in the show sounds like Dolly Parker and Mike are going about that.
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She's the people's Rogue.
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She's the people's Rogue.
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I love Anna Pacquan.
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So her and Magneto do this sexy dance and they're touching each other.
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She's like, oh, good, we can touch each other's skin.
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And then how the voice sounds?
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Absolutely.
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Yes.
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And then Gambit, I won't even try to do a Gambit accent because it's absurd.
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The voice actor is great.
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He's supposed to sound like he's from New Orleans, but I think it's kind of goofy sounding.
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Anyway, he dies in this episode.
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I'm just going to cut to this chase.
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Gambit dies.
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He goes out in a blaze of glory and he shows off his powers in a wonderful way.
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And the last line he says is my name's Gambit.
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Remember it.
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Then he dies.
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And finally wrote my name's Gambit.
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Remember it.
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Rogue is holding his dead body in the final scene and she can finally touch him because
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he's dead.
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And you cried.
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Oh, of course I cried.
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My husband cried.
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I think the entire internet cried.
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And there's no way that he's dead.
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This, I don't know.
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It's so gut-registered.
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What are his powers like fire?
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So I love you so much.
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No, where are they?
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Gambit kind of energizes objects that he touches so he infuses them with kinetic energy.
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So a lot of the time he uses playing cards.
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So he'll kind of throw like a deck of cards at you and it sticks in your forehead and
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kills you or your neck.
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It's totally sick.
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He has a staff that he uses a lot.
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And this time there's a terrorist attack in Genocha and these giant robots are there and
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he is stabbed in like the side and then he powers the entire robot with his kinetic energy
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and goes, "My name's Gambit.
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Remember it?"
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And explodes and then he dies.
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The reason I asked about the fire was I can see like a phoenix.
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Oh.
13:57
So actually phoenix is another X-Men character that you're thinking of and that is Jean
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Ray because she has this dark arc.
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A dark willow arc.
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Is that the one with Sophie Turner?
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Yes.
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Oh my God.
14:13
I love that you at least know the movies.
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But yes, in the comics, that's a very famous arc that she goes through where she is this
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dark demon called like the dark phoenix.
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Yeah.
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And that's probably where you go from.
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Yeah.
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So if you turn her in that character, I thought that was an ambitious post-game of Thrones
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role.
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I agree.
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I would have thought she would have went to like something totally opposite of that.
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Yeah.
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And then maybe done X-Men.
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I liked her as Jean Grey.
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She was okay.
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But like, I don't know.
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That movie was just when they brought in like the younger generation of X-Men.
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Their first couple were amazing and then I went downhill very quickly.
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So I'm very excited for them to come into the MCU and X-Men 97 has been amazing.
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It's got incredible scores on Rotten Tomatoes.
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I think just all across the internet, everybody's devastated by our boy Gambit.
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And the only way of hope we have is that this time traveling character showed up earlier
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in the episode in his name's cable.
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And he seemed to be warning his mother who was Jean Grey.
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That this imminent attack was coming.
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And so there's this little glimmer of hope that maybe he can use some kind of time traveling
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to undo this terrorist attack on Genoja and maybe Gambit can come back.
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So that's what us Gambit fans are hoping for.
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Us Gambies.
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Us Gambies.
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Our Gambit Pambies.
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I'm never going to say that again.
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I'll be playing ball.
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Maybe I'll be playing ball.
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Real quick, I won't go on about it.
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But I also watched the first episode of the Fallout TV series.
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It is on Prime Video.
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It is based on the video game series Fallout.
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It is a future post apocalyptic Los Angeles.
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There is a nuclear bomb that goes off in the 1950s.
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Then it cuts to 200 years later.
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People are living in bunkers underground.
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The video game series is very tongue in cheek, kitschy.
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I mean, it's serious because obviously the nuclear fucking bomb, but a lot of iconic imagery
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of Nucacola comes from that video game.
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And I watched Andrew play it and we really enjoyed the first episode.
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So hopefully by the time this episode airs, I'm deeper into that.
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But so far, I am.
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What's it on?
16:35
It is on Amazon Prime.
16:37
Okay.
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So far, I am popping it because the next episode intrigued me.
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I don't try to get it.
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I like it.
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I liked it too.
16:45
So we briefly mentioned P. Diddy and Kesha editing her lyrics.
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Make up in the morning feeling like fuck P. Diddy.
16:58
So it brings us to a larger topic.
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So even before the Me Too movement, especially after it, a lot of fans of pop culture have kind
17:06
of been going through this problem of can we separate the art from the artist?
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So can we or should we continue to enjoy and celebrate the work of problematic producers,
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artists, musicians?
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I think there's a larger discussion of at what point do you draw the line, right?
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With these artists or people that you enjoy and does it become different if it's somebody
17:34
that you have been a passionate fan of?
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So for like P. Diddy, for example, I mean, any millennial, we used to like P. Diddy's music.
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I won't go out and pretend like I was some huge fucking P. Diddy Stan, right?
17:49
On my throwback, James playlist, I absolutely had some P. Diddy songs.
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Did I remove them recently?
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
17:57
Right?
17:58
Well, I think in the case of P. Diddy, it's really interesting because you have artists
18:03
by notorious B.I.G.
18:06
You have a ton of people within the Jeff Jam records umbrella as well, which is owned
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by P. Diddy.
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I think it's a very difficult and interesting conversation to navigate and we'll try to
18:21
be as sensitive as possible going through this.
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But I think for me, when I really look at any artist and any like cancelable offense, so
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to speak, it really comes down to think one of the fundamental educations of like your
18:38
dollar means so much.
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Absolutely.
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And your ability as like an individual citizen.
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So I think about it in that sense where it's, you know, real change does not happen unless
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there's like a financial impact to it.
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And that's why there's a lot of corporations and businesses that people don't go to anymore.
18:58
I mean, I won't spend any money.
19:00
Hobby Lobby anymore because of their stances on women's rights and abortion issues, right?
19:05
And any company.
19:06
Trickful.
19:07
Yeah.
19:08
Any company that you don't want to give your money to that's I do still buy Starbucks
19:13
all of them.
19:15
Listen.
19:16
And that's what it comes to where do you draw the line, right?
19:19
Because it comes to a certain point.
19:21
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, right?
19:26
So if we cancel every single business that ever exists, can we exist in a society?
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Yeah.
19:35
Well, like if we stop going, oh, I heard Target did this.
19:39
I heard Walmart did that.
19:40
Can we ever do or exist or fill up our tanks or go grocery shopping again?
19:45
Obviously, you have your everybody has their own morals and you have their own.
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Like, I won't do this.
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Like I won't need to check for it.
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I won't stop it.
19:51
Hobby Lobby.
19:52
But like, at what point do you do people draw that line?
19:55
That's so interesting.
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Yeah.
19:57
I think it with art specifically, like when I think about a movie, right?
20:03
I think Harvey Weinstein is a great example in this horrible person.
20:08
Yeah.
20:09
Absolutely.
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Can't feel Harvey Weinstein forever, another lot of work in Hollywood, whatever again.
20:14
But then you walk into this, should every Miramax film not ever be straight soon again
20:21
in there.
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I think it's such a difficult conversation because there are so many artists and individuals
20:27
who were put into an abusive system and an unfair system where it does become this canceling
20:35
the art and the artist.
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Like, when I really think about artists, then I'm like, okay, I'm not going to support you.
20:41
I'm not going to listen to your music or things like that.
20:44
Like it does ultimately more come down to individual musicians.
20:49
I think like the way that I look at it because there are so many moving pieces.
20:52
I totally agree.
20:53
And things like that.
20:55
Yeah, I was thinking about this and like looking at it.
20:58
And I think there are a lot of different examples of individuals that like I just cannot support.
21:05
I think a lot of it comes down to like, are you taking advantage of these disadvantaged
21:10
groups?
21:11
Exactly.
21:12
I absolutely agree with everything you just said.
21:13
So when it's an individual artist and I do realize that there's a team that goes behind
21:19
producing music.
21:21
But let's take Chris Brown, for example.
21:23
Yeah.
21:24
I will never listen to another Chris Brown record again.
21:28
I skipped that.
21:29
It's not on my playlist because of his abuse.
21:32
Well, it's not just like the reon thing.
21:34
It's every single year since the reon.
21:37
Exactly.
21:38
Exactly.
21:39
I mean, it's inexcusable.
21:40
Like a pattern of abuse.
21:41
He has a pattern of abuse and it's.
21:43
One is enough.
21:44
It's a pattern of behavior.
21:45
Absolutely.
21:46
So, but the music is, it's Chris Brown's music.
21:51
You can't say, well, I still listen to Chris Brown's music, but it's because I'm supporting
21:55
his backup band.
21:56
I'm supporting his background singers were really great.
22:00
And I'm friends with them.
22:01
That's not how that works.
22:02
When it comes to a movie or a TV show, sure.
22:07
I mean, you and I, both huge, Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans, I'm wearing literally a spite
22:12
t-shirt.
22:13
Right?
22:14
That is my beautiful.
22:15
Thank you.
22:16
It's so comfortable.
22:17
Yeah.
22:18
So comfortable.
22:19
Extent of me getting dressed with my broken foot that I'm willing to do right now.
22:23
The hobble.
22:24
Literally with my hobble.
22:25
Hashtag the hobble.
22:27
You play.
22:29
Joss Wheaton is a dick.
22:30
Right?
22:31
Yeah, it's pretty abusive on time.
22:33
Yeah.
22:34
In recent years, it's come out that he's just been.
22:36
He was awful to charisma carpenter.
22:38
He was awful to work with.
22:39
He was sexist in the workplace.
22:41
He was racist.
22:43
But like, I understand that there's so much more that goes into a TV show beyond just
22:48
Joss Wheaton.
22:49
There's actors.
22:50
There's the camera crew.
22:52
There's the sound.
22:53
There's the directors, the writers, like everybody else who goes into this.
22:59
So I think as long as you make it clear, like I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer and it came
23:05
out 25 years ago.
23:09
But Joss Wheaton, absolutely.
23:11
Anything that he came out with now, I would be very hesitant to support.
23:14
Yeah.
23:15
I think the way that I think about it in my mind is can you consume a piece of media that
23:24
has some deeper personal meaning to you within your childhood, within experiences, within
23:31
those things, absolutely.
23:34
And I think most art should be consumed in that way.
23:38
It is a personal experience.
23:39
It's a way that you interpret it.
23:41
I think where our culture and who we are now is we've really made like celebrity these moral
23:48
figures within our life.
23:51
And it does take a lot to separate, like for example, if it came out that Taylor Swift
23:58
was doing something, PW was doing right now.
24:02
That would be a very hard experience for me.
24:04
It'd be devastating.
24:05
Mainly because I can book and my life within those albums.
24:12
But would I stop buying her albums, would I stop consuming all the media that I do, would
24:17
I stop talking about her in a public podcast?
24:21
Absolutely.
24:22
And I think that's really the distinction.
24:25
And you know, streaming an artist is ten cents.
24:28
You know, buying someone's variance or making positive media about someone.
24:34
I do think they are different.
24:37
I think in my mind, like a lot of the examples that I thought of were just a lot of them were,
24:43
like, have you done really bad things to children?
24:47
Like have you taken advantage of these really vulnerable groups of individuals?
24:52
And I think a lot of them do come down to that.
24:54
Like I think a really another good example of like, I just absolutely cannot, is Dan Shinder.
25:02
Yeah, absolutely.
25:03
I know we've talked about it online.
25:05
It's taking advantage of children.
25:07
And like you said, it's vulnerable groups of people.
25:10
I mean, children can't stand up for themselves at all.
25:14
And that's where I would draw the line too.
25:16
And that's why P-ditty, I mean, this is all still pending, right?
25:20
A legend.
25:21
A legend.
25:22
But like, you fuck with kids, you're done.
25:24
Yeah.
25:25
And there are other things that obviously I would draw the line on, like Chris Brown.
25:29
If you assault women, if you beat women, like, I'm sorry, you're done to me.
25:36
If you've said the inward on, you've got to be occurred, you're done.
25:40
I'm sorry.
25:41
Yeah.
25:42
Morgan, Wall and Paula Dean, I don't fuck with you.
25:45
Yeah.
25:46
Like, I think everybody has their own point where they're willing to go, okay, I'll give
25:52
them the benefit of the doubt.
25:54
But I think as a person, each of us has our own moral guideline.
25:58
Like, it's if you are blatantly racist homophobic, a rapist, obviously.
26:07
Then I can't support that.
26:09
Kanye West, I can't mess with just everything anti-Semitic, he said.
26:14
And that really sucks.
26:15
Like, I remember, I loved those early Kanye albums, right?
26:20
And when he used to say, when he said George Bush, does he care about black people?
26:24
Yeah, I can't.
26:25
Oh my God.
26:26
Go off.
26:27
But then when he started putting on the Trump hat and saying, anti-Semitic shit in his words,
26:34
anti-Semitic shit, no, no, I'm done.
26:37
Yeah.
26:38
Yeah, I think it's a very delicate one.
26:41
You know, I think a good example of that is Harry Potter, the most individuals.
26:48
Harry Potter was such a part of your life that you grew up with it.
26:52
Like I remember when the seventh book came out and the midnight release and staying up all
26:56
night and just being 15 and like a little girl, like reading my books, not really got me introduced
27:03
to literature.
27:05
And you know, JK Rowling, she's very controversial.
27:08
Like, I will not support her anymore because of the way she feels about trans people.
27:16
And that is a really hard thing for me to reconcile.
27:20
Those movies are my childhood.
27:21
They're so iconic and I can appreciate that.
27:25
I think one of the beauties of a fanfic like Manacold that we discussed a little bit.
27:32
It is someone, you know, really taking the art and the story and the characters that we
27:37
love.
27:38
We claiming them as their own.
27:39
We claiming them as their own, making them gay, trans, whatever non-binary.
27:45
Speaking of that, I don't know if you saw Daniel Radcliffe just wrote JK Rowling, open public
27:52
letter.
27:53
I haven't read it yet.
27:54
Exactly.
27:55
I saw that's amazing.
27:57
And I saw that JK Rowling recently said she would never forgive Emma Watson and Daniel
28:01
Radcliffe for the way they didn't support her.
28:05
And both of them were like, I mean, like I said, I haven't read Daniel Radcliffe's response.
28:09
But up to this point, both of them and Robert Grant have all been very pro trans movement,
28:15
like LGBTQ, which I am so happy about.
28:18
And I absolutely agree with what you're saying.
28:21
Like when you look back and these things are so transformative to your life as a child
28:25
and have been with you since you grew up, right?
28:28
Like the Harry Potter novels really spoke to a lot of people about what it was like, at
28:33
least how they read it to be kind of different and weird.
28:39
And you're the weird kid in school and you're a wizard.
28:42
Yeah.
28:43
And you're like misunderstood.
28:44
Maybe your family doesn't understand you, but you can find family and these other people.
28:49
Like your family doesn't have to be your blood.
28:52
And honestly, I feel like a lot of LGBTQ kids probably relate to those novels.
28:57
Absolutely.
28:58
Because it kind of felt like an allegory kind of like the X-Men for being different and
29:02
quote unquote weird and misunderstood.
29:05
And then all of a sudden to find out that the person who created this doesn't feel that
29:09
way is gut wrenching.
29:13
Yeah.
29:14
The open letter that he wrote on behalf of the Trevor Project really loved the Trevor Project.
29:18
So he's been pretty actively involved with him.
29:21
He kind of addressed this.
29:24
Can you separate Harry Potter from JK Rowling?
29:28
Yeah.
29:29
And his take on it was absolutely this impacted your lives.
29:32
If you are trans, non-binary and you sell yourself within any of these characters, that is
29:39
valid and that is your relationship to a piece of art and actively supporting and giving
29:46
your money versus appreciating the art as it is.
29:49
I think it's very different.
29:51
You know, there are ways where if you have a book from your childhood that you don't want
29:57
to give this individual money, but it really does mean something to you.
30:00
There are free ways to obtain that.
30:02
We're not really putting your money there.
30:04
I think for me, it really is like if I've given money in the past, that is a wash, but
30:11
I can do the best to vote with my dollar, with my sense, moving forward and really just
30:18
having honest conversations about the art that we're consuming and really being conscious
30:24
of what kind of message does supporting the person behind the art portray.
30:30
Absolutely.
30:31
So I mean, if you have those old Harry Potter books that you've had since childhood, there's
30:36
no shame in reading those if those were your comfort books growing up.
30:39
And this is something that you grew up with and you find a lot of value.
30:42
And I have my Buffy the Vampire Slayer DVDs.
30:45
I'm not going to burn those.
30:49
But if J.K. Rowling comes out with something new, maybe don't support it if that's not something
30:55
that you agree with, right?
30:58
If Chris Brown or P. Diddy or Roman Polanski or what do you think was I sorry, tanks
31:05
so bad.
31:06
I think that's really great.
31:07
I'm not going to mess with that.
31:09
I'm not going to give that my money.
31:11
And I remember in high school, I wrote a paper about Woody Allen and how I loved him.
31:15
Discussing, but yeah.
31:17
And now I look back on it, but I got I was 15 and when I was in a creative art, writing
31:24
class and we were supposed to write about somebody in Hollywood, we admired and I had no idea.
31:29
I just knew that I liked his movies from the 70s that I got to watch.
31:34
And now I would never give him another time, but I can't disparage past Shawna for things
31:40
that she didn't know and for things that she enjoyed as a product of their time.
31:45
That we shouldn't feel bad about.
31:47
And everybody has their own moral guidelines of where they're willing to draw the line.
31:51
I have some friends who still like Kristalia, right?
31:55
And if that's where they draw their moral compass, maybe that's not where I draw mine.
32:02
And we have friends who still like Morgan Wallen, right?
32:05
And I'm not the only one I've ever messed with that.
32:09
Yeah, yeah.
32:10
No, I completely agree.
32:11
And I think in this crazy world where we have so much information coming out of the
32:21
time, I think a lot of the time where people get shut down in these conversations of, well,
32:28
how could you like that individual?
32:30
Like sometimes it really is like education, I know.
32:33
I know entirely too much about really random things.
32:37
It's almost like you should host a pop culture, see.
32:40
And so I will volunteer information and be like, did you know this about that person?
32:44
You've done that to be so many times where I've said that I like someone and you're like,
32:48
actually, did you know?
32:49
And I'm like, they did this.
32:51
You will live here.
32:52
I know.
32:53
I know.
32:54
Now you just know.
32:55
I know.
32:56
I know.
32:57
I know.
32:58
Everyone smells for everyone.
32:59
Yeah, no, no way before the slap.
33:01
He ruined it for himself starting a school for children for Scientology.
33:05
Oh god.
33:06
I forgot about that.
33:07
Yeah, I forgot about that.
33:08
Holding the whole thing.
33:09
Like the slap, whatever.
33:10
You know, your brain watching children.
33:12
Yeah.
33:13
Again, like a lot of it.
33:14
It's just like, what are you doing?
33:15
But I think a lot of it does come down to education and people generally have the best
33:20
of intention.
33:21
So I think you can go with it from that lens of, you know, hey, maybe this individual
33:27
does not know about these things that you're aware of.
33:30
Yeah.
33:31
And you can talk to people about that.
33:32
But yeah, I think for me, it's just, I'm not trying to give my money to people who have
33:38
a pattern of behavior in those bad.
33:39
Like if someone makes an offhand comment one time that is in really, really poor taste.
33:45
Yeah.
33:46
Can you prove over time that you're a better person?
33:48
Absolutely.
33:49
I think that's part of the human experience.
33:51
Absolutely.
33:52
But, you know, I think that's the thing is like, if you pull up, you know, you're going to
33:56
pull up somebody's past tweets from 15 years ago and they said something stupid, right?
34:03
A lot of handed.
34:04
Yeah.
34:05
Then like James Gunn was fired for a second from Marvel for past tweets, right?
34:10
But has he shown a pattern of behavior since then that he's still an asshole?
34:14
No, I mean, I don't know the guy personally, but I mean, he kind of, yeah.
34:20
Listen, like we have to give people a chance to grow and redeem themselves.
34:24
Do I think that there's some things that there's no coming back from and you should not have
34:28
a fucking public platform?
34:29
Yeah.
34:30
Absolutely.
34:31
Absolutely.
34:32
I'm not saying that you should unalive yourself and like I'm saying, but you shouldn't
34:38
be.
34:39
You shouldn't see it too exited.
34:40
You shouldn't be making money in the dollars.
34:41
But you shouldn't be making millions of dollars and making something that's for public
34:46
consumption that people are going to fawn over you about like Louis CK, right?
34:51
It's tripped into the distance.
34:54
Like people like that who just go and live your life.
34:57
It is funny that he was like a poster child of the being canceled and how cruel it was
35:04
and la la la la.
35:05
And we're not going to get into the Louis CK and the meeting movement.
35:09
But he want to Grammy in two years later.
35:11
And so, yep.
35:12
I mean, that just kind of goes to show too that white straight men in this country are so
35:18
easily kind of forgiven.
35:20
I mean, Mel Gibson had worked since he came out and had like awful braces.
35:26
So, I'm really successful enough to be considered to win a Grammy.
35:30
Absolutely.
35:31
And so, that's important too to like realize kind of the race and gender aspect of it where
35:37
you do have more leeway and cushion if you are a handsome white straight guy, right?
35:42
Not that Louis CK.
35:43
And then you back to X-Men, you know, like Brian Singer.
35:49
Yep.
35:50
People were very intense with him about what he did and how it was abusing individuals.
35:54
If you've never seen the documentary Open Secret, it is on Vimeo.
36:01
And if I should ruin X-Men for me because please don't.
36:04
Well, Brian Singer's X-Men.
36:05
Do you know what Brian Singer did?
36:08
No.
36:09
Oh my gosh.
36:10
Oh my gosh.
36:11
You're about to shake my life.
36:12
Brian Singer is a terrible person.
36:13
And he is...
36:15
Schmetophile.
36:17
And...
36:18
Stopping Schmetophiles, everybody.
36:20
Yeah, stop it.
36:21
Yeah, stop it.
36:22
No, and it comes out in this documentary and Open Secret, it's on Vimeo.
36:27
It is free.
36:28
It is amazing.
36:30
It really, really exposes just like this pattern of behavior.
36:35
They tried to release it during the Me Too movement.
36:37
Yeah.
36:38
It is about young boys.
36:41
So unfortunately they killed it.
36:45
It was an Oscar winning director of documentary.
36:51
It's amazing, but ultimately, it really talks about Brian Singer a lot and the group around
36:57
him and all the crazy stuff that has happened with him.
37:04
Damn.
37:05
No, see, you keep opening my eyes.
37:08
God, and absolutely, it just, it comes back to what we say, just if you don't know, then
37:14
you don't know.
37:15
And you can't despair for not knowing something and not being as plugged in as we are with all
37:19
of the shit right?
37:20
Yeah, absolutely.
37:21
But then once you've learned something, it's kind of up to you to go, "Where do I spend my
37:25
dollar?
37:26
Where do I spend my time?
37:27
What do I want to consume?
37:28
What do I want to support?"
37:30
I mean, is it okay to listen to Old Kanye and not support New Kanye?
37:35
It's just...
37:36
Yeah.
37:37
So it's Amy Berg.
37:38
Amy Berg.
37:39
She won an Academy Award for Deliver Us from Evil.
37:45
She was one of the original documentarians to expose the Catholic Church.
37:50
Shit.
37:51
Which is...
37:52
So she kind of works in this film, Child of Us.
37:54
She works, child of us.
37:55
Yes.
37:56
And so she was one of those initial people and this...
38:00
I want to say it premiered at Sundance and immediately after not a single person would
38:05
take it up distribution, you still can't find it on any streaming platform.
38:09
So somebody nixed that.
38:10
That's why if somebody killed that shit.
38:11
That's why it's on Dimmion.
38:12
She was like, "No, this needs to get out."
38:14
So, you know, I think there's a lot of information.
38:17
I think I tried to hold corporations a lot more responsible to these things because there
38:23
is an entire team and system to make sure you didn't know that you're such a big X-Men
38:29
fan.
38:30
And I didn't know.
38:31
We're not knowing that about Bryan Singer.
38:32
Is...
38:33
Is astronomers...
38:34
There is a Disney and Marvel who are doing...
38:37
Hiding that stuff.
38:39
And that's on purpose that I don't know that shit.
38:42
Absolutely.
38:43
Yeah.
38:44
So I think, you know, it's a very complex topic that we're discussing.
38:49
And I think when you're thinking about it in your own life, it's okay.
38:54
Let's try to have these informed discussions.
38:57
I think pop culture is important for that reason.
39:00
It really illustrates our society and allows us to have discussions.
39:04
A lot of the time people are like, "Solverty, gossip and thing is so vapid, but it is such
39:08
a light on our society and how we interpret things."
39:12
Absolutely.
39:13
And we've had amazing discussions about it.
39:15
But I think when you're really looking at it, it is...
39:18
Okay, how do I maybe respect the memory that that art has, but not support a person?
39:27
I think that's true of any form of art.
39:30
That's so true that people think sometimes if you mention pop culture that you host a
39:34
pop culture podcast or you're into pop culture, they think you're vapid, right?
39:39
No, the pop culture that you consume says so much about you.
39:43
And there's so many deeper meanings behind what you watch, what you spend your time doing,
39:49
right?
39:50
And nostalgia is so important to so many people, especially over COVID and over these past.
39:56
To mulch was times with the Trump presidency and just all the shit that we've been through
40:01
for the past, got 10 years, right?
40:04
There's been such a push of nostalgia.
40:05
And remember when we all used to do this?
40:07
Remember when we all were happy?
40:08
Oh yeah, I remember.
40:09
I remember.
40:10
And like, and that's pop culture right there.
40:14
If you remember those times where you used to watch that show and be happy, that's pop culture.
40:19
You remember when you were back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, I don't care, like
40:24
that's pop culture.
40:25
That's what you grew up watching, listening to, and that's what shapes you as a person and
40:30
what you watch going forward and what you care about, right?
40:33
Like, I mean, this fucking show came out 20 years ago and I'm still rapping.
40:39
My Buffy T shirt again.
40:40
Yes.
40:41
Yes.
40:42
So, yeah, I mean, we could go on and on about this, but I think it's really about knowing your
40:46
morals and understanding who you want to support, what you want to support, where you
40:51
draw that line.
40:53
And yeah, who you want to give your money to going forward and if you can still reconcile
40:58
listening to it or watching it in the past and it doesn't kind of make you squeamish.
41:03
Yeah.
41:04
Ethical consumption is as much as possible, but.
41:06
Absolutely.
41:07
Ethical consumption.
41:08
We're on a floating rock.
41:09
The world's hard.
41:10
If it brings you joy, just try not to give them money.
41:14
Listen.
41:15
Yeah.
41:16
If you still have your Harry Potter, you like Blu-ray disc, you're like, listen, my comfort
41:21
film is Goblin of Fire.
41:22
That's a strange comfort film.
41:23
It's like, oh, dark, but.
41:25
Who am I?
41:27
Listen.
41:28
Like, see, I do love Goblin of Fire because for my name is so beautiful in that.
41:34
It's not the one where they all go to the dance and her first starting to be like, if you
41:39
would have wanted to dance with me, you would have just asked me, rollin.
41:43
Her and Victor.
41:44
Her and Victor.
41:45
She's so hot.
41:46
She says for Victor.
41:47
Maybe that's why I really had the love for that movie.
41:50
It's a trick, Tiggery.
41:53
But we love our Pat here.
41:54
Yeah.
41:55
I'm a culture chunky podcast.
41:56
I wasn't like the other girls.
41:57
He was my favorite.
41:58
Oh my god.
41:59
I like Harry Potter rubber.
42:00
Tiggery.
42:01
I love a good, half a pot.
42:05
Do you remember what we used to all pay for our personalities?
42:07
Like, I would meet people and be like, oh, it's really nice to meet you.
42:10
By the way, I'm a slither in.
42:11
What are you?
42:13
Like, you meet people that you know are kind of a nerd.
42:15
Yeah.
42:16
And be like, cool.
42:17
Nice to meet you.
42:18
What are you?
42:19
What house do you in?
42:20
I'm a tronist.
42:21
Thankfully, I never got a Harry Potter tattoo.
42:23
I know.
42:24
I'm glad I never got one.
42:25
I was close.
42:26
Did we talk?
42:27
Oh, you're a griffin door, though, huh?
42:28
I think I was lying to myself then.
42:30
It was in my pick me here.
42:31
I think I need a retagate.
42:32
No, you can't retake it.
42:35
You don't get to go to the sorting hat twice.
42:37
Okay.
42:38
Well, I'm a different person now.
42:39
So I do.
42:40
You were.
42:41
When you were high school.
42:43
I'm a new spawn.
42:44
A new spawn.
42:45
I'm a new spawn.
42:46
Was that a video game reference?
42:48
Yeah.
42:49
I know she knew spawn.
42:50
She respawned.
42:51
She respawned in a new map that is less transphobic.
42:55
Yes.
42:56
Absolutely.
42:57
Oh, my God.
42:58
Okay.
42:59
Wait.
43:00
Listen, listeners, let's make new Harry Potter houses and we'll reclaim it as ourselves.
43:05
Okay.
43:06
And then we just need to melt on this for a little while.
43:09
That could be a cute podcast.
43:10
So let us know.
43:11
That could be a cute discussion.
43:12
What do you think our four houses are?
43:14
I saw some cute TikTok recently that was like, you must be sorted into the four houses
43:19
there.
43:20
Slut, nerd, bitch.
43:22
I'm bitch.
43:23
That's the last one.
43:24
I forgot the last one.
43:26
It was the big stupid and I was like, I don't know.
43:30
I don't know.
43:31
You were all three.
43:32
I was like, what if I'm a slutty, nerdy bitch?
43:36
And I love that.
43:37
And I love that for me.
43:38
We're not one no anymore.
43:40
It's called being multifaceted.
43:41
It's called having gender fluid and being multifaceted.
43:46
Flaceted?
43:47
And that's called Freudian slip.
43:53
Multi-flaceted.
43:54
I think the best example of being multifaceted is we can have discussions in this podcast where
44:02
we were like, yeah, yeah.
44:04
Can you separate the art from the artist and then we'll talk about it.
44:07
We're like, poop and peepee and then the next minute we're like, yes, according to the
44:11
me too movement and this study from the...
44:15
You know, I'm in all the houses.
44:17
And that's called kitchen.
44:18
No no, I'm in the house.
44:19
No no, I'm in the house.
44:20
I'm in the houses.
44:21
We are home.
44:22
Oh, yes.
44:23
Okay.
44:24
Well, let's wrap this up for all of my nerdy slutty bitches out there.
44:30
I love you.
44:32
Where can the people find you?
44:34
You can find me on Instagram @livimariez
44:38
You can find me on TikTok @livyolife420
44:47
You can find me, Shauna Trinidad on Instagram, TikTok and Threads @shaunatrinidad S-H-A-U-N-A-T-R-I-N-I-D-A-D.
44:58
You can find the Pop Culture Junkie podcast, social media links on our website, popculturejunkie.com.
45:05
From there, you can find our podcast and all of our platforms.
45:08
Give us that dopamine hitly crave by clicking subscribe, follow us, give us a five star rating
45:15
and a sincere honest, but also really great review.
45:20
We also have a Patreon.
45:22
If you want to get some exclusive content, maybe some kind of saucy, uncensored content.
45:29
Nicole's feet picks.
45:30
I'm just kidding.
45:32
Maybe my broken feet pick.
45:33
I'll post my X-ray on the Patreon.
45:35
There you go.
45:36
If you want to see the in between of my sweaty broken toes.
45:39
Why are they sweaty?
45:41
Because they're in a cast.
45:42
Oh, is that on the X-ray?
45:44
I mean, you can't see sweat droplets on the X-ray, but like it's sweaty right now.
45:48
All right.
45:49
If you want to see one, the X-ray pick, two, a sweaty toe pick, three exclusive content
45:56
that you can't get anywhere else.
45:58
Subscribe to our Patreon.
45:59
We're supposed to pour in the lace, sweaty toe fix, and please come back next time for another
46:05
hit of pop culture.
46:09
The Pop Culture Junkie podcast is produced by Jeff Markin and Cheryl Lightfoot for the
46:16
Pop Culture Entertainment Network.
46:19
So entertain me, entartain me right now.
46:31
(upbeat music)