Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of The Ribos Operation (3/4)

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Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of The Ribos Operation (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker,
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  quicker. He was an Arab.
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  I tried to sell him Hamster with a blood pen knife for $50
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  million. Yes, it came after me with a
• 0:46
  machine gun. I never went back.
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  Welcome back to a Hamster with a Blood Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
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  commentary podcast. Hello, Martin.
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  Hello, Joe. Hello.
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  Now look, we've had a little detail, haven't We're talking
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  about Buffy for half hour. And The X-Files and The X-Files
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  and anything. Else we don't want to talk about
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  Doctor Who anymore. Boring.
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  Oh, rubbish. Oh, except the Rebus operation
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  of course. We do want to talk about that.
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  Yes. Now episode 3 of the Rebus
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  operation. Would I be wrong in saying that
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  that's where a lot of the comedy gold and the heartbreak is in
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  this story? Yeah, it's definitely, it's like
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  you said, it's definitely an incredibly strong episode 3.
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  Episode 3. That's traditionally not the
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  strongest episode of the story normally, but this one is.
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  I mean, the whole thing, it's just a very, very strong four
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  parter. So part three-part 3 does bring
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  in some particularly good strong elements.
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  You're talking about Bin ro the heretic.
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  I'm talking about Bin ro the Heretic.
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  I mean, I remember there was that, what was that?
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  They did that Doctor Who magazine article, didn't they?
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  That was like 2020 Magic moments or something.
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  And of course, one of them was the Bin ro the Heretic moment,
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  because it's just so lovely and it's so beautifully done.
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  And not ice crystals. And it's doing another it's
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  because it's not that long ago. Well, I guess it would have been
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  a couple of years previously, but they've done mask of Man
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  Dragara that's doing the Galileo thing with Giuliano.
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  And then they're doing it again. But they're doing it again in
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  this kind of even more detached from reality, this sort of
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  romantic sci-fi historical setting.
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  But it comes across just gorgeously, like it's such a
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  lovely and it's so unnecessary. It's so completely.
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  Irrelevant. Going on totally irrelevant and
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  it really gets you and I'm absolutely devastated when Bimro
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  gets killed off. Like I think it's horrible.
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  It's so, so sad. I can't think of another moment
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  in Doctor Who where within the first scene that we are
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  introduced to that character, you are all like choking back
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  tears. Yeah, you're all learning their
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  back story. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  It's such a great Timothy. Basically, it's such a wonderful
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  performance. And it's so, well, it fits the
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  world so well because we've got, and we haven't up until that
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  point. You're not really thinking about
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  it because you get all the, oh, it's a great three planet.
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  And you get all the stuff about, you know, they haven't
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  discovered spaceflight and you're not really thinking about
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  it because it's not really the important thing.
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  But then suddenly you get this bang.
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  This is how it would be for someone that thought differently
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  in this world. And it's so unexpected and like,
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  and so like you say, it's so completely irrelevant, but it's
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  also lovely. It just adds more depth to that
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  world. It gives you this, yeah, it said
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  Timothy Bates, some fantastic character moment that's just
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  really, really well acted. It gives Nigel Plasket loads to
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  do, as well as Unstop, which is lovely.
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  It's so touching and it just builds it.
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  And then when you get the bit where it's Unstop, talking about
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  Garen adds more to that relationship as well.
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  It's just such a brilliant way of bringing out more depth and
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  detail to these characters in this this world.
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  Sometimes, and this is something I think the Williams era
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  understands, sometimes really great character work can be more
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  interesting than plot, plot, plot.
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  You know, so much of Doctor Who is built around moments of false
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  jeopardy and things like this. I'd much rather characters just
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  stopped and talk to each other and we learnt about them and
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  they moved us and they made us laugh.
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  Like they're doing this story. That's drama and.
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  And it's, and I do think as well, you can build so much with
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  a few sort of broad strokes, but just done in the right way.
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  It's things like as well, it's going completely off where we
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  are now, but things like the Doctor talking to Nimrod in
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  Ghost Light and you get this beautiful sort of back story and
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  development of this character that you just want to sit and
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  chat to this person for ages and ages and ages.
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  It's so lovely, but there's not much there.
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  It's just a few lines, but just delivered sort of in exactly the
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  right way. And you just want, you just,
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  yeah. You want to just hear more about
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  them. It gives them a life that they
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  wouldn't have had otherwise. Even though it's set on an alien
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  planet, just the ideas are so gettable.
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  A learned man who pushed against the scientific knowledge of the
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  time, who was right forced into, you know, living in bone pits,
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  homeless and and humiliated like vast ideas that you, you can
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  just understand, right? Oh, instantly.
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  Exactly instantly and it's and it's even more horrible because
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  it's doing the Galileo thing. But Galileo was executed, wasn't
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  he? I want I'm sorry if any
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  historians are like, no, he wasn't.
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  I think he was but and so Ben Roe is even worse.
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  He's just been some shunned and shamed and and has did he was he
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  tortured into recanting because he says when he says like did
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  you? Eventually, he.
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  Says and he holds, he says eventually, and then he holds up
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  his hands and says these hands are no good for working anymore.
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  And I was like, is that because they broke his fingers?
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  Or is it just like by the bike he got older and he got off
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  right? I don't know.
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  I was sort of like. I found that a little bit.
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  Sometimes there's a reason there, though.
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  Yeah, but yeah. And it's just so sad.
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  And then his excitement, his little toothless grin when he,
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  because First off, it's the fact that someone believes him.
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  It's not the fact that it's proof, it's just that.
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  So I mean, because he says what he says, he's like, oh, an open
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  minded man. And it's just that someone will
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  listen to him. That's the first thing.
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  And that's so beautiful in itself.
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  And then he's like, no, actually I'm, I'm an alien like and, and
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  you're 100% right. And it has to be honest off
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  right? Garen wouldn't be kind in this
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  way. And.
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  Karen. Karen's reaction?
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  Because I'm sad, he'd say, wouldn't he?
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  Or something like that. I do love much so I love the
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  sweetness, but I also do love just black comedy and the dark
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  humour. And when Ben Rd. gets killed,
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  Karen's like, oh, was that Ben Rd.
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  He's so horrible. He's.
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  So charming fellow, the little I sort of him.
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  So funny, like it's so dark and horrible but it's so safe.
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  I do like a bit of Jet. What was it?
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  I always said dying's the last thing I'd want to do, you know,
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  all those sort of gags. Yeah, but, and it is like a
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  typical episode 3, as in it's people imprisoned and it's
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  running around corridors, IE the catacombs.
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  And it's do it's the plots not really progressing.
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  No, it's great stuff. And and because of, like you
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  said, the character stuff that takes that space, it doesn't
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  feel like a runaround even though it absolutely is.
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  And also, let's go back to praising George Fencing Foster,
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  as you said at the end of Episode 2 where you've got the
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  people kind of running in all directions.
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  It's a literal runaround. But it works so well because of
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  the way the stories paste that you are hitting all of these
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  like mini climaxes for each of the characters and then they're
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  all all being brought together at the end of Episode 2.
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  It works fantastically and it doesn't feel like padding.
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  These characters are so successful that even if they
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  just sit around in a cell or a phone pit talking, you want to
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  be with them. That's how good the
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  characterisation. Is yeah.
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  And, and with Garen's stuff in this episode, which we'll get
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  to, it's actually, we've heard it all already.
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  But the stuff about the graph, we've heard it already, but
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  we're hearing it from a different perspective now and
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  we're getting the doctor's input and it just, it adds more detail
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  and depth and it doesn't feel, again, it doesn't feel like
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  padding. It doesn't feel like a waste of
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  time. It feels totally essential to to
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  this story. Well, it feels totally essential
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  that I want to watch it right now.
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  It's it's. Much about it.
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  Could you count us in please? Yes, right.
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  Let me just get the plaything up.
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  OK, Let us make a start. Oh, hang on.
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  Wait, no, sorry, that's the wrong episode.
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  Part 2 come up. Yeah.
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  I've got Part 2 come up. Oh.
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  Maybe it's a problem with the iPlayer, because great, what's
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  going on here? Skip that.
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  Episode 3. Hooray.
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  There we go. OK, right now.
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  Now that's actually up. Let's start Episode 3.
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  I'm ready. In 321.
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  Boom. There we go.
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  It's putting you back up again. OK.
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  Oh, this is going to be great. And I do love as well how Ramana
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  is like, yeah, you're just sitting here talking.
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  We're in the most deadly effect. He goes, no, no, no.
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  I face deadly danger all the time.
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  This is much more fun. Yeah, I think that again, it's
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  just this sort of, it's almost like it's reminding us of the
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  role of the companion and what how the Doctor differs from the
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  companion and what the companion is there for, but doing it in
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  very knowing way. Look at the strike to camera.
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  No one makes a fall. In decay and lives it's so good.
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  But that again. Yeah.
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  And then he then this is better because he cuts him immediately.
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  It's not that throws Karen in front of him.
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  Mercy, Highness. Spanish Grey Hills.
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  But the cringing care where he's like, don't hit, don't hit the
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  cringing cur. It's so good.
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  Ah. There we go.
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  You know, I was just doing an X-Files the other week with a
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  terrible episode where where somebody called a dog a cur you
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  are. And I said no one else has ever
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  used the word cur in a script. Well, there we go.
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  Yeah, there you have. But yeah, the taking the glove
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  and slapping him back is so brilliantly Dr. Ish.
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  It's just wonderful. He can't believe the nerve of
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  him. No, the graph.
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  I do like those guns as well. They look like candles.
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  I think the guns look great, I like the design of the guards.
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  Everything else I just this filming through the cupboard to
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  give us that a little bit of so you get the background behind
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  them I think. Pulling back from the glass
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  there with all the, I don't know, just just suggestion of
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  movement. Having the chanting in the
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  background, again, like we said, there's sort of, so there's
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  other things going on, there's a bit more depth to it.
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  And now here we've got like scenes between 2 characters
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  basically from separate plots coming together.
• 11:13
  The Doctor and Ramana are nowhere to be seen, but it's
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  just as riveting. And it's the the the seekers
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  been. She's coming, she's coming.
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  I promise you the thief will be taken by the morning.
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  The bones. And just how so the Prentice
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  Hancock has? Well, because he doesn't have a
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  name, does he? The captain, he, he is
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  absolutely sure of her powers, so it's not so for him it's
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  totally normal and OK, like they're not sure about it
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  because they come from somewhere else.
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  But in terms of what works on Rebos, the Seeker works.
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  Which is so rare though, isn't it, to have a supernatural
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  element like? That, yeah.
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  In Doctor Who, that's not scientific.
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  No, but also I mean, I do love that.
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  I love the idea that everyone knows the Seeker, and it does
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  make me wonder, what does the Seeker do on a daily basis?
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  She's like lost keys, lost pets. Like, you know, because because
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  the cats is just like, yeah, we'll call the Seeker.
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  That's what you do. Obviously shut the door.
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  I can hear the seeker coming. I get on terribly well with the
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  aristocracy. Excuse me, John Pert.
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  We did. I'm not sure about you, Tom.
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  All right. No, that's true.
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  There's a blood here, isn't there?
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  Where Garen gets caught. Yeah, and I remember not
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  understanding the first time I several times I watched this,
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  not seeing what he did with this.
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  I didn't understand how he got like the blood on him.
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  I didn't see what he'd done. But because it's because he hits
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  it against the thing, doesn't he?
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  We're not dirty gang, are we? Mine, we mine but.
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  There another high angle shot there just for a bit of giving a
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  bit, but that's really nicely done.
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  That looks like a big space, and it's probably not.
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  No, it's back to the back to the Fetch Priory seller, isn't it?
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  It's like making it the best of what you've got.
• 12:58
  Do you know? I was certain, I was absolutely
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  certain, that Ben Roe was played by the same fellow who plays Jim
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  Trot in the Vicar of Dibley, because they wrote that exactly.
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  No. No, no, you know.
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  Yeah, Peacock. What's his name?
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  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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  Trevor Peacock. They sound so similar.
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  I mean, he could have played it, yeah.
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  He definitely could have done. I couldn't imagine him on Rebus
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  going sex, sex, sex. That's all you get on the TV
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  these days when it is on mine. I've got the Playboy channel,
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  you know. But I did love Jim Trot.
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  Oh, hang. On I need to.
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  I need to look this up now because I think it was.
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  You've made a competent arrest, Martin.
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  I do admire professionalism especially.
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  But I love that as well. I love that.
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  Oh, yeah, that's what it is. Yeah.
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  The last thing that Timothy Bateson did, apparently, which I
• 13:46
  must have seen the film, but I don't remember it noticing it,
• 13:49
  but he did the the voice of Creature, the evil house elf in
• 13:52
  Harry Potter 5. And I need to rewatch it just to
• 13:54
  hear the voice now, because I've got to see if you can hear Ben
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  Rowe in it. Yeah, well, I don't think that
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  voice. I have seen him in other things.
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  It's that throaty voice. Like, it's very distinctive.
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  Oh, Ramana, we're searching for the first segment of the keys
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  time. Shut up, Romano.
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  That's it. Oh, that's right.
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  K9 is our catch all get out of any situation at this point.
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  And this is the thing I think we haven't really talked about
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  canine. He's not been in it yet, but I
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  really like canine in this. I mean, I like canine all the
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  time, but I think he works really well in the Key to Time
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  season. They know how to use him.
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  They know how to sort of use him enough, not too much, just put
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  him in the right places, stick him on the little boat.
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  And I did do all the things with.
• 14:42
  Him make jokes with him, the bit where he goes don't stop at all
• 14:44
  corners. Yeah, and make jokes with him.
• 14:47
  Let John Leeson just be really funny.
• 14:49
  Give him the proper comedy lines in Stones of Blood, the Anyone
• 14:54
  for Tennis scene. Oh boy.
• 14:56
  What, It's probably like a top five Doctor Who scene for me
• 15:00
  because it's so fucking funny. Just so he's like Memory, my
• 15:04
  favorite. It's when he's What's it?
• 15:07
  I still don't understand about hyperspace.
• 15:09
  Well, who does? I do Shut up.
• 15:13
  So funny. In fact, to be fair, just all
• 15:16
  this whole thing in that him and teach it, telling the professor
• 15:19
  what to do. Everything in that story is
• 15:21
  great. But he's good here too.
• 15:22
  He's just used well. Even in the Armageddon Factor,
• 15:26
  when he has to pretend that he's evil, the doctor and drugs have
• 15:31
  been killed. I love all that stuff.
• 15:34
  Oh, it's great. Corbin, Roy and.
• 15:37
  He just looks so broken and that guard does such a great, oh,
• 15:42
  massive cunt face. You know, he's just like, oh,
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  you're Binro the Heretic. Of course you are.
• 15:47
  Look where you are now. It's such a great, hissable sort
• 15:51
  of performance. That's how you're not sure it
• 15:53
  is. Kept a civil tongue or your neck
• 15:55
  would snap like a dry twink. That's the other thing, because
• 16:00
  I think what people kind of forget.
• 16:02
  Martin, sorry to interrupt the the flesh that much clothed you
• 16:08
  by the spirit that moved you seek and find.
• 16:11
  Seek I think the the the people ignore this isn't quite a
• 16:18
  violent story and people ignore that it's nasty.
• 16:22
  Like Binro gets horribly killed, the seeker gets horribly killed,
• 16:26
  the graph get the shot at gets crushed, which is really quite
• 16:29
  horrible. It's only the fact that it's a
• 16:32
  laser beam that her being shot in the face she's blunted.
• 16:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If.
• 16:37
  That was a, you know, a machine gun.
• 16:39
  It wasn't really horrific. This was this was happening.
• 16:42
  A few years later, she got acid thrown in her face.
• 16:46
  Oh gosh, we will seek him there. I will seek him out.
• 16:51
  Oh, she's wonderful. But so then this is oh, hang on,
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  because I wrote this down somewhere because I'll sing as
• 16:55
  well. Oh, Christine Walmsley, Gotham
• 16:57
  Kotam Kotam. Who did the make up?
• 17:00
  Who I think just. Just the the teardrops.
• 17:03
  But yeah, the The Seeker has a great look.
• 17:05
  I think that's, I think that's something that needs to be
• 17:07
  praised. By all accounts, she went to the
• 17:10
  BBC canteen Riot, they were saying, in full makeup and had
• 17:14
  her lunch. And there's all the other cast
• 17:16
  of the sitcoms and everything sitting there and they're like,
• 17:19
  she's sitting there at the end of the table all on her own with
• 17:21
  the teardrops. Is she in?
• 17:25
  Oh, Doctor Who? Oh, right.
• 17:26
  Put your bones in front of her. Oh.
• 17:29
  This is my favorite scene. Of this is beautiful, yeah.
• 17:32
  I sold in Sydney Harbour for $50 million.
• 17:38
  The. Opera House thrown in as well
• 17:40
  the. Opera House.
• 17:42
  But Gareth, he's so because he's so proud of himself and he's
• 17:46
  just massive grin on his face. I must have muscles.
• 17:53
  I couldn't have let that Edgar fist fall into the wrong hands,
• 17:56
  could I? And the fact that he came after
• 18:00
  me would have been enough. But with a machine gun, it's
• 18:03
  even better. It was the most harrowing
• 18:07
  experience, Martin. I never went back.
• 18:11
  But I think that's what it's and the doctor's just loving it.
• 18:14
  But then cuts to like he's got the doctor's sort of balancing
• 18:17
  that thing between laughing at him but also trying to find
• 18:18
  things out. Don't panic, bro.
• 18:20
  Marley, come and sit down. The thing is, like the Doctor
• 18:23
  kind of becomes this person in latter incarnation.
• 18:27
  Nobody's had lots of stories, and he becomes a story.
• 18:30
  Remember when he he goes in Happiness Patrol comes out the
• 18:32
  tiles, he goes, oh, yeah, I saw a load of dinosaurs in London
• 18:35
  once. You know, he's doing exactly the
• 18:37
  same thing. Yeah, you're right, though.
• 18:42
  You're right. And just tell me and Roman, she
• 18:44
  starts to develop where she's actually getting more competent.
• 18:49
  She's sort of understanding like how to be the the doctor
• 18:53
  essentially is what she's learning to do.
• 18:56
  I acquired the Jeffrey. Some years you stole it.
• 19:00
  Oh, that's a very blunt word, doctor.
• 19:03
  But the Doctor here is giving a great like a serious performance
• 19:09
  and they guarantee I don't sell mines Doctor, I sell planets.
• 19:12
  That is a great twist because I don't think until that point do
• 19:16
  we know he's selling planets? Well, we know.
• 19:18
  We do. We know.
• 19:20
  Yeah, we do. We do.
• 19:21
  But the Doctor doesn't. And that's the thing.
• 19:22
  And it's nicely delivered. It's my prime, my golden period.
• 19:30
  His social maladjustin is due to his deep rooted sense of
• 19:33
  rejection. I'll just take a bit of wealth
• 19:36
  and I'll spread it about a bit. I keep the economy in balance.
• 19:42
  I love again that Romano's like taking that totally seriously.
• 19:45
  Like no Romano like. Tom Baker is just staring off
• 19:51
  camera. He's given up.
• 19:52
  He goes. I can't beat this.
• 19:57
  And then this. Is when he'll go.
• 19:59
  This is yeah, about the grass. Which is which is beautifully
• 20:03
  delivered. And I'm and the way the doctor
• 20:05
  again, the doctor's like, no, but now I need to know.
• 20:07
  So I've got to be serious and I'm not joking.
• 20:09
  I need to know I'm. Very blunt.
• 20:11
  Yeah, that in a very blunt tone. And it's that it's that sort of
• 20:18
  change of tone that only Tom Baker gets right.
• 20:21
  Other people try David Tennant, but other but like Tom Baker's
• 20:25
  the one that can do it and make it seem convincing.
• 20:29
  Yeah, it's a mad, hopeless dream, but a madman's money
• 20:33
  jingles in my pocket as well as anyone.
• 20:35
  That is just fantastic writing this again, it's like, imagine
• 20:38
  that on stage. Oh my God, Can you believe he
• 20:41
  said that about ourselves? He's a.
• 20:42
  Terrible, terrible ham. Ham at heart, I'm not sure who's
• 20:46
  the biggest ham out of the two of us.
• 20:49
  Probably me. If I want this, I think you can
• 20:53
  pull it off. I'm just, you know, young ball.
• 20:59
  Now look, we've sort of got the guards with their helmets on
• 21:02
  now. This is to sort of set up the
• 21:03
  twist later on. But even this is quite nice.
• 21:06
  They're just sort of panning across them.
• 21:08
  That's quite nice. Even there's only four of them.
• 21:11
  No survivors, no tongue waggers. Yeah, it's really economic riot
• 21:16
  at times as well. Oh no, one of the guards is
• 21:19
  called Crow. Come on, Crow, you stay here.
• 21:25
  Killed the prisoners immediately.
• 21:27
  All right. Oh, yes, Sir, I can do that.
• 21:28
  Thank you. So now they know they've got to
• 21:31
  get out of here. But Canine's come in.
• 21:35
  Actually, that is a bit of a bland shot there, the three of
• 21:38
  them. Just to be fair.
• 21:40
  In a line. But even just Romana being
• 21:44
  Romana getting being really scared and say aren't you
• 21:47
  frightened that the doctor just says, yeah, terrified.
• 21:49
  But but he's, you know, but he's not giving up.
• 21:51
  He's still just doing what he needs to do is lovely.
• 21:54
  But he convinced me when he was laughing along with Garen and
• 21:58
  enjoying the stories, and he convinces me when he says he's
• 22:01
  terrified. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 22:03
  And just being deadly serious about what he's doing and all
• 22:05
  this fiddling about with the with the receiver thing.
• 22:08
  That's all very Doctor ish. All this line about what is it,
• 22:13
  Graham and Roger? Oh yes, it's.
• 22:17
  Roger Graham. Ow, oh boy.
• 22:24
  I'm not even sure I can talk over the scene, and I know I've
• 22:27
  got to. It's just, again, so economic.
• 22:31
  Just saying. They're not ice crystals.
• 22:33
  I think they're stars. We move through the heavens.
• 22:36
  It's beautifully delivered. Chris Chibnall Take No.
• 22:40
  This is how you do exposition. We don't.
• 22:43
  Need a 5 minute PowerPoint about Gallifrey's past?
• 22:46
  It's. Like, sorry, just sit down while
• 22:49
  I tell you what happened. Yeah, Sasha, Dewan's underneath
• 22:52
  there going well, what it was, but.
• 22:55
  Sasha Dewan could be under anywhere as far as I'm
• 22:57
  concerned. Going to the bed.
• 23:01
  It's the only thing that salvages that PowerPoint
• 23:03
  presentation. But what they talk about in
• 23:06
  this, it ties in so well with the which you don't think about
• 23:12
  the time. But when you get Prentice
• 23:13
  Hancock doing the, you know, we give thanks for the dawn of a
• 23:16
  new day and all of that stuff about their religion.
• 23:20
  I guess it it fits so well. And then later on with the fact
• 23:24
  that it's the ice gods that live down in the catacombs and things
• 23:27
  like. That two seasons are sun time
• 23:29
  and ice time, depending on the time of the.
• 23:32
  Year yeah, and all of that. You're just like, OK, this.
• 23:34
  And it fits with things that have existed on Earth as well
• 23:39
  that we're familiar with from history.
• 23:41
  And it just, it's just so nicely done.
• 23:43
  I love the contrast between Garen and Unsav as well.
• 23:45
  You've just had a 2 hander with Garen where he fills the room
• 23:48
  and it's all about him and the attention is all about him and
• 23:52
  it's his back story. And then you have a scene with
• 23:54
  other stuff where he just sits quietly and listens to this old
• 23:57
  man's story and then gently and kindly affirms him, and it just
• 24:02
  shows you the difference between the two characters.
• 24:04
  And it's like again, this is just, this is just filler, but I
• 24:08
  wouldn't swap it for anything. I'll take out anything else some
• 24:11
  of the plot. Yeah, and it is just, it's, it's
• 24:16
  unstuffed his performance here because he's been doing a bit of
• 24:20
  sort of, you know, with his silly accents and stuff.
• 24:24
  And then now here he's just so quiet and so serious and, and
• 24:27
  because he's scared and, and that he's met this this crazy
• 24:30
  old man, but he's just like wants to hear what he has to
• 24:33
  say. And that's so lovely.
• 24:35
  There's almost a bit of an anti religion there because if I
• 24:38
  don't publicly recant my beliefs then the gods would destroy us.
• 24:43
  But it is, I mean, it's all it's literally, I mean, it's
• 24:45
  probably, I don't know how I can't, I haven't studied the
• 24:48
  Galileo play for a long time, but it's there's probably a bit
• 24:51
  of a copy paste of the dialogue there, but done in a very nice
• 24:55
  sci-fi way. But it's so his reaction is so
• 24:59
  sweet, his smile, because he's like, you believe it too.
• 25:02
  And that's the important thing at first.
• 25:03
  It's not before he tells him he knows it.
• 25:06
  It's just the idea that someone could believe him is.
• 25:08
  Excitement where he's like, like, like, you can't believe
• 25:12
  he's hearing these words. And then he takes his hand and
• 25:16
  just weeps into it. Oh, it's so sweet.
• 25:19
  Benroe was right. He just can't stop the emotion
• 25:24
  bubbling up. So, so sweet.
• 25:29
  Oh, I would have done a gag here.
• 25:30
  Put your finger there, Amana. OK, that's like.
• 25:34
  Cross your fingers. Don't you?
• 25:41
  Oh no. You get some really lame canine
• 25:44
  lasers now, though. Does he shoot him in the nuts?
• 25:47
  I can't remember. Oh.
• 25:49
  Don't actually see you go. Do you see it?
• 25:50
  Yeah. Well, well, imagine that he did.
• 25:52
  He's very good at getting a crotch.
• 25:53
  You know this canine. The problem with canine is and I
• 25:57
  know I'm and I'm sure you know production issues, but it very
• 26:00
  satisfactory is he is he this funny before this canine?
• 26:05
  No it's something in 15 isn't working.
• 26:08
  The motor is so loud I can. But this is the other thing
• 26:11
  because the motor and even in this I'm like, oh, I know that
• 26:14
  you have to do the recording and whatever, but if you could just
• 26:17
  do shots of canine where you just take the sound off.
• 26:20
  I don't think he is as witty in 15.
• 26:22
  I don't think he is really isn't as witty A performer as John
• 26:27
  Leeson, so this is his best season.
• 26:29
  This, oh, this is this is his best season, but I've been.
• 26:32
  Used horribly in season 18 Canine torture pause just.
• 26:37
  Smash into pieces. But no, I think this is yeah,
• 26:41
  he's just at his best in this season, just getting witty
• 26:44
  little retorts. And you've just seen the purpose
• 26:46
  of having that kind of character around because in season 50,
• 26:50
  it's like, oh, yeah, we've got and we've got a robot dog, OK.
• 26:53
  In this one, you're like, no, Canine's like part of the team.
• 26:55
  Like, he's great. I just remember watching it the
• 26:58
  first time and they were like, yeah, we'll take refuge in the
• 27:00
  cat. Oh, the catacoos.
• 27:02
  Oh, God, Caves, you know? And then you go to that candle
• 27:05
  it say oh and you're like fucking hell, why are the caves
• 27:09
  not always lit? And even the bit, because again,
• 27:12
  of the character stuff, even the bit when they're in the little,
• 27:16
  the little alcoves, birds, birds in the darkness show.
• 27:20
  What is he like? Oh shoot, it's such a great.
• 27:22
  To the circle whom I seek. Oh, she's great.
• 27:27
  And then just so like and the graph are like what the fuck is
• 27:31
  this still? I mean, you must be up in the
• 27:33
  lighting grid there. That's so high that shot the.
• 27:35
  Speaker This is the thing and it's just really nicely done.
• 27:39
  Oh, this. The door, though, is terribly
• 27:42
  drawn on. Look so.
• 27:43
  Really. I don't What are they doing with
• 27:46
  that door? It looks the whole of the dead
• 27:50
  just looks absolutely incredible.
• 27:53
  Somebody has gifted Dudley Simpson and Organ, and so in
• 27:58
  Invasion of Time and in Rebos, he's getting the use out of it,
• 28:02
  but it really suits the location here.
• 28:05
  Yeah. So the designer who is Ken
• 28:07
  Leadsom or Ledsham, I don't know how you pronounce it, but he I
• 28:10
  just think does fantastic work on this as well.
• 28:13
  And this bit or whoever's responsible for this, whether
• 28:15
  it's the lighting as well, it's all, it's amazing how.
• 28:18
  So many health and safety people were standing by with fire
• 28:21
  extinguishers. Actually just, Oh no, it's just
• 28:23
  buckets of cold water getting ready to check the while in case
• 28:26
  Ben Rose first go up in flames. So now we're being hunted,
• 28:31
  aren't we, by the guards? Off we go.
• 28:33
  But again, it's like they it's it's been around unstuffed that
• 28:38
  they're after them. So at this point, they're not
• 28:40
  the doctor and Garen and Romana are just sort of they.
• 28:43
  Well, they're just sticking. They could leave essentially.
• 28:45
  Yeah, if, if they, but. He's got the Jeff, Rick, and
• 28:47
  that's the keys. That's all.
• 28:48
  That's what they need, yeah. So it's not even like, yeah,
• 28:51
  you're right, they're not even in danger.
• 28:53
  We just have to find these people for our mission.
• 28:55
  Exactly. It's a different way of telling
• 28:57
  a story. It's a very.
• 28:58
  Different way of telling a story and it but it works really well.
• 29:01
  And again, it works in a way that would maybe not this exact
• 29:06
  story, but it would work really well on stage because you've got
• 29:09
  different groups of characters on stage at different times.
• 29:12
  It's how you know, all Miles can say all.
• 29:16
  I'd say the majority of Shakespeare plays work is that
• 29:19
  you've got little groups of two or three.
• 29:21
  They're all telling their stories, they all interconnect,
• 29:23
  but they're not on stage at the same time.
• 29:24
  They're they're, they're linking up in the background.
• 29:28
  Andrew would not be out of place in a.
• 29:30
  Show Oh God, Oh no, no, no, 100% bin ro bin Ro would would be
• 29:34
  there and he and he'd fit in as one of those random 1 scene
• 29:37
  characters who just bring so much sort of texture to the
• 29:40
  play. But I love that the I love that
• 29:43
  the doctor knows exactly what's going on and Romana is the one
• 29:45
  catching up and it's because she's but we're not having her.
• 29:50
  It's not the sort of transition of going from, for example, Liz
• 29:54
  Shaw mega competent to Joe Grant and utter potato and the you
• 30:01
  know that. So Romana is she's got that good
• 30:03
  thing of she needs to ask questions, but she's also very
• 30:05
  competent. So once she works out what's
• 30:07
  going on, she's she's she's fine, which I think is a really
• 30:10
  good balance for the companion. Arguably by the end of the
• 30:14
  season that there is that slight problem of she's just as good as
• 30:18
  the Doctor essentially. And I realise that that does
• 30:22
  cause issues. I mean, come 17, she did most
• 30:27
  stories and he's just asking about and.
• 30:29
  Then she just becomes the lead and I think sometimes that works
• 30:32
  and sometimes it's just a bit annoying.
• 30:34
  I'd watch her doing anything. To be fair, but I think there's
• 30:37
  ones when you split them up, when you when you've got City of
• 30:39
  Death, for example, you've got Romana paired with Duggan, that
• 30:42
  works that. Works got her own, really a
• 30:45
  companion. Yeah, she's got a useless
• 30:46
  companion that's fantastic when you get her in Warriors Gate and
• 30:49
  she's got and it, said Binro. What's his name?
• 30:54
  Bieros Low, they're quite similar.
• 30:56
  Virog. Bierog.
• 30:57
  We just got Bierog. That works really, really well.
• 30:59
  And obviously later on in, you know, her audios and stuff, that
• 31:02
  she gets really good character characters to work with.
• 31:07
  This is so great. They used it to house the dead.
• 31:09
  They say the ice gods live here. You're not scared, are you?
• 31:15
  But that as well. But he's like, you don't believe
• 31:17
  in the ice God spin rows like no, of course not.
• 31:19
  But it's like because again, he's been raised in this
• 31:23
  society, those sort of, you know, the irrational fears will
• 31:29
  still stay with you and the fact he knows that there are
• 31:31
  shrivensales down there as well. Even if I had you to protect me,
• 31:35
  I wouldn't want to be walking around those shadowy, dripping
• 31:38
  categories. No.
• 31:40
  And again, it's like what have they got?
• 31:41
  They've got one corridor or maybe 2, but they're they're
• 31:44
  using it really well. Oh, that line about the
• 31:48
  shrivensal, that was a small one.
• 31:53
  I think there is it is a slight shame that there's no way and oh
• 31:56
  God, I mean, you may have ended up with a talons of Wing Chai
• 31:59
  Yang rat if you try, but it's a shame they can't really express
• 32:02
  the difference in size. Yeah, it would be nice if you
• 32:04
  did have a real big fuck off Shrivensal.
• 32:07
  They've only got 1 shrivensal they've.
• 32:08
  Only got 1 shrivensal, that's it.
• 32:10
  And on a on a little set that might not work too well.
• 32:14
  Oh, you just love BIM Row though, don't you?
• 32:16
  Like suddenly they're suspensed because we don't want him to get
• 32:18
  hurt. No, I really don't.
• 32:21
  My God, I'd rather Ramana got hurt than being run.
• 32:25
  But even just up here in the the Hall of the Dead, you've got the
• 32:28
  light, that light that's higher up as well with the lamp, which
• 32:31
  sort of, again, it just gives a sense of depth and a sense of
• 32:34
  scale, which is really, really nice.
• 32:37
  Oh, this bit in a minute when the guards come along and the
• 32:42
  doctor hugs the skeleton in the I mean Garen grabs hold of
• 32:49
  Ramana in a very. Because he starts off quite
• 32:53
  politely does it. He leaves his hands up to begin
• 32:55
  with. He sort of holds them up as if
• 32:57
  like not gonna grab. And then he kind of slowly puts
• 33:00
  them down again. Mary time.
• 33:03
  Hey again, I think this is a cliffhanger, that it's just a
• 33:07
  few seconds too long. Yeah, but also, if the doctor
• 33:10
  hadn't kicked that skill off, they'd have just carried on
• 33:12
  straight through because they're not looking for them.
• 33:14
  No one will ever know how you tried to trick the craft and
• 33:17
  don't. Know if we need a comedy look
• 33:19
  from Tom at the Skeleton. I really don't.
• 33:21
  Again, it's the same thing. It's like then it's like they're
• 33:23
  not quite, what's the word certain that that just the
• 33:28
  villains going to sell the cliffhanger, which is again,
• 33:31
  that same mistake that you get back to then in Trial of the
• 33:34
  Time Lord where you're like, no, no, there's a lot of pretty good
• 33:36
  cliffhangers here, but none of them are the ones you've gone
• 33:38
  with because none of them are the ones where it's Colin's
• 33:41
  face, like, you know, in close. Up until they get to Vivian Faye
• 33:44
  and then the end of the episode is her saying you'll be trapped
• 33:47
  in hyper space forever. Ohh wonderful.
• 33:52
  But does it end? On the but does it end on the?
• 33:55
  No, it's a shit terrible. Model shot.
• 33:57
  Ohh God it. Looks like a big hair dryer.
• 34:00
  So, so awful. Yeah, yeah, I.
• 34:03
  Have not seen a worst model shot since the end of Star 10.
• 34:06
  Sorry, I know you like that. I love what you can do with the
• 34:11
  squeezy bottle and some paper clips.
• 34:13
  I also love as well that the image that they've chosen for
• 34:16
  episode 4 on the iPlayer, it's an enormous picture of the
• 34:20
  seeker. Oh dear.
• 34:23
  I think we're going to lose her though Martin in the next
• 34:25
  episode. Oh no, Taker of the TARDIS.
• 34:29
  We're going to lose the Seeker, we're going to lose Bimro.
• 34:32
  I mean, it's sad times for the Rebus operation.
• 34:35
  Always brilliant this, I guess this is the same thing as it.
• 34:37
  Always brilliant characters, the characters where and and this is
• 34:41
  this is very much a Robert Holmes thing as well, but you
• 34:43
  want to spend more time with them.
• 34:45
  It's the whole thing about genuine Lightfoot as well, isn't
• 34:49
  it? Which I mean, we did get to
• 34:50
  spend a lot more time with them at the end, but you sort of you
• 34:53
  meet them and you're like, I want to know what these people
• 34:55
  are up to. Like, what's that?
• 34:56
  What are they up to next? Like what?
• 34:58
  Can we follow their adventures? I mean, I don't object to a
• 35:02
  massacre at the end. No, we're not going.
• 35:04
  To see those characters again, but I love these characters.
• 35:08
  Yeah, I think it's that that's the difference, isn't it?
• 35:10
  You're just really, really happy to sort of spend time with them
• 35:13
  and and learn about them and see more about them.
• 35:16
  It's not like those cardboard thugs, Stratton and Bates.
• 35:19
  I don't care if they get electrified at the end of
• 35:21
  attackers I've met, but Bimro the Heretic, you leave them
• 35:24
  alone. No, because it's that's obvious.
• 35:27
  I've got to take them sideways because you get, you get, you
• 35:29
  get Brian Glover and hit whatever Terry Malloy's
• 35:31
  character is that you're sort of like, oh, kind of interested in
• 35:36
  this. And then they're just like, no,
• 35:38
  like we came up on that relationship.
• 35:40
  Oh Margie, he's at it in attack of the something that lovely cry
• 35:43
  on lady that helps the doctor. Not only not only is she
• 35:47
  murdered, she's pulled out into the warm and melted.
• 35:49
  I mean it's. Just they cook it, don't they?
• 35:53
  Yeah.