Latest / Leaders In Payments / Danny Shader, CEO of PayNearMe | Episode 278

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Danny Shader, CEO of PayNearMe | Episode 278 · Leaders In Payments

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast, where we talk to C-level leaders from across the payments landscape.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We'll be discussing the products and services that impact the payment space today, as well as trends and predictions for the future of payments.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: We will also hear stories from our guests about their journeys to the top.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Over time, our customers that we were processing cash for said you know you do such a great job of that, why don't you take over all of our different forms of tender?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: So we did that, all of those other ways that you can pay, and that's now taken this upmarket in lending.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: So it's not just subprime, it's near prime and prime lenders and obviously it's expanding out in the gaming business as well.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: That was Danny Shader, the CEO of Payneer Me, and he is my special guest on this episode, episode 278 of the Leaders in Payments podcast, and I'm your host, greg Myers.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Payneer Me develops technology to facilitate the end to end customer payment experience, making it easy for businesses to manage and accept payments.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Danny and I talk about the company, what makes them unique, and their new product, moneyline.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: That services eye gaming and sports betting operators.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: We go on to talk about Danny's entrepreneurial journey and passion for fitness swimming.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: We've got a great episode ahead, so let's get started.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Hi, danny, thanks for being here and welcome to the show, but first I want to tell the audience that you were here back in September of 2020, believe it or not, that was episode number 38, and we're about to launch episode 272.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: So it's been a while.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Congratulations, thank you, thank you.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: So I want to make sure we talk about what's new and exciting at Payneer Me, but first, thanks for being on the show today.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: So let's dive in, tell our audience a little bit about yourself, maybe where you grew up, where you went to school, where you currently live, a few things like that.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Sure, I'm a California native.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I live in Palo Alto, california, and I have an engineering degree from Berkeley and I went to Stanford Business School and I've been working in tech stuff since 1989.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I'm part of the Gray Haired Valley Contingent.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Awesome.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about the company Payneer Me.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: So tell our audience what Payneer Me does.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: So Payneer Me is in the payment experience management business.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I think that is managing receivables and disbursements for our clients.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Our clients are largely billers and to some extent, online gambling operators, and we do that through a combination of enterprise workflow software and licensed money movement services which collectively significantly reduce the total systems costs of managing payments.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: So we're not competing to take a couple of basis points off your processing costs.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: We're helping you, as a biller, fundamentally reduce your customer service costs by managing everything about how your customers pay you and how you disburse funds to them.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Does that make sense, absolutely.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: When you were on the show a couple of years ago, we talked a lot about that biller segment, some of the challenges that they had that you guys helped solve, and we talked a little bit about the cash business as well.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Maybe just give us the update what's happened since 2020, maybe the new verticals, new products, things like that?
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: That's a reminder to everybody.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: We aggregate together all the different ways the consumers want to pay, so cards, ach, apple Pay, google Pay, venmo Cash App and Cash through our proprietary real-time cash network.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: All the interfaces through which the consumers interact with the payees, so the web experience, the mobile experience, the IVR print mailhouse if there's a printed bill All the business logic, the controls who can pay, with what form of tender, at what price, under what rules, with whose approval, under what jurisdiction, etc.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: All of that then integrated into a settlement and reconciliation, with analytics around that, and now adding AI capabilities.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: It's a very rich set of stuff that collectively significantly reduces our clients' costs of managing payments with their consumers.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Probably since the last time we talked some big news we launched a whole system called MoneyLine in 2021.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: It processes payments for 16 of the 17th largest online casinos in the US and 9 of the 10 largest US operators, including BetMGM, tvg, pointsbet, fanduel, caesar's Sportsbook, and we've recently announced relationships for that product with Typico and Maverick Gaming and LotteryNow and Saracen.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: And also we're excited that we've just added a partnership with a certified subsidiary of American Express to help manage down fraud.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: We've also, outside of gaming, in the bill payment market, we've got new relationships or expanded relationships with companies like Lending Club, consumer Portfolio Services, onemain Financial, and very excited about some other huge relationships we haven't yet announced.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Since then, we've added Venmo, paypal and CashApp, and our retail network for cash has expanded.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: We're now at, in addition to 7-Eleven and CVS and Walgreens, we've got Walmart, dollar General, family Dollar, up to 60,000 retail locations, and then just kind of fun to be named one of CNBC's top 200 fintech companies and we're in the top 40 in digital payments.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: So we've been busy?
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Certainly sounds like it.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: I wanted to double-click on a couple of things there.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: You mentioned the cash business when we talked in fact I obviously went back and listened to the episode.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: At the time you had 27,000 locations, so now you're at 60,000.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's quite some growth.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: If you want to pay a bill with cash or make a deposit into an online gaming account with cash, we've got a retail partner nearby where you can go, do that in 60 seconds and done.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: And you manage all of that process, from the acceptance of the payment to the back end of reconciliation and everything.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Correct and think of that as just one of N different tender types that we accept and aggregate and settle in, reconcile.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Maybe talk a little bit about the Moneyline acquisition, like what was the reasoning, how did that come about, and maybe a little more detail about the why.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: So just be clear.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Moneyline is not an acquisition.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Moneyline is a product that we've offered and it's basically taking our stack and customizing it for the needs of the online gambling industry.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: So if you think about what we're doing in bill payment, the fundamental problem we're solving there is how do you reduce the customer service costs?
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: By making payments more reliable and enabling self-service In the gaming industry, what matters is that customers can successfully fund their accounts or get disbursements.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: The reason why that matters is that's a very competitive business and the operators spend a significant amount of money to acquire a consumer and get them to the top of their funnel.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Now, if they get through that funnel and they're ready to fund their account, and then the clunky UX or the lack of payment options or something else prevents them from loading their account, that's an incredible loss to the online gaming operators, and most operators don't have the ability to aggregate all of these different payment methods together and put them into a seamless UX and make it so that the consumer can flow through that in an optimal way and complete the payment, and that's what Moneyline does for them.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: By the way, moneyline also includes disbursements, since it also turns out that if you play and you win.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Many people want to get their funds out and you want to make that as easy as possible for them.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: So all of that together, as a turnkey solution is Moneyline and we provide that, as I mentioned, to quite a few operators.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Okay, I also saw on the website another vertical, the consumer lending space.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: So what are you doing in that space?
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: So lending is our biggest vertical.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: That's where we are.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: As I mentioned, we're managing all of the receivables, so people repaying their loans and disbursements for our lending clients.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Just to give you a little history, if you think of the history of the company, the original thing we built was that cash transaction network, and where that got traction originally was in gaming, because credit cards once upon a time didn't process reliably.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And then it was also picked up strongly in subprime auto lending because a lot of those consumers needed to repay their loans with cash Over time.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Our customers that we were processing cash for said you know, you do such a great job of that, why don't you take over all of our different forms of tender?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: And so we did that.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: We added all of those other ways that you can pay and that's now taken this upmarket in lending.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: So it's not just subprime, it's near prime and prime lenders and obviously it's expanding out in the gaming business as well.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Then you can think of loan repayments as a form of bill pay, but then a bunch of adjacencies to that, things like insurance or mortgage or moving outside of that, utility payments and other things.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: That kind of all look to some extent the same but then have unique nuances that we have to make sure that our system can accommodate.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you mentioned something there that I think is a trend, at least I hear a good bit about and see a lot of news around and that's the whole pay outside.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Was that something that was like we have to be able to do this to break into these markets?
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: It was less that we had to do it to break even, and then it was more that when we became our clients trusted partner, they asked us to do more.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Most billers or operators don't want to be in the business of managing a whole host of different vendors and being responsible for the integration.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: They want, as the expression goes, a single throat to choke.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: If there's somebody they trust who can take over more and more of things that they don't consider core, then they want to do that.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: That's why, if you just go to the history of the company starting with cash, adding other forms of tender once we're doing that and people said, well, like you're doing a good job of that, can you take over the web experience and the mobile experience and the IVR?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, if you're doing that, can you give me business logic that controls how all that works?
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, can you give me analytics around this?
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, hey, now can you give me AI to optimize how all this works?
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, can you do.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Disbursements is also part of that conversation.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Once you become a strategic and trusted partner to your clients, then typically, if it's in your wheelhouse or they think it could be in your wheelhouse, they'll ask you to do more.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Obviously, we want to be the best possible partner we can, so we'll keep innovating to do a good job for them.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: Makes perfect sense.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: When we talked last time, I think you had raised around $100 million.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: In June of this year, you raised another $45 million, which is a big number this day in age, given the way the economy is.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, can you talk a little bit about that journey, why you did it, how you plan to use the funds, things like that, sure.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: First of all, obviously, given how tough the fundraising environment is, we were very happy to get that done and that feels really good.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: We're using it basically just to fund growth.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: The business is now of a scale where our costs are paid for by our ongoing business, but there are a lot of ways that we can grow the business with new capability and new verticals, et cetera, and that's what we're using those funds to invest in.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: What would you say?
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: Differentiate you from your competitors out there.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: There's a framework we think of what we call payments 3.0.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: If you think about the evolution of payments payments 1.0, I would argue, is processing Then if people went to integrate processing, they would have to buy products from multiple different companies in order to put all that together and process payments.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Some financially engineered rollups came along.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Now we think of those as legacy players, but these are the payments to God people that roll together a bunch of these different aggregate parts and put them together so at least you had one vendor you could go to to get all the different parts.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Those companies tended to be more financially driven and the seams between the products were clear and those seams resulted in worse customer experience and higher customer service costs.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: We think of payments 3.0 as product-led companies, technology and product-led companies that create seamless experiences for consumers on behalf of their clients, that integrate all of the different capabilities.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I think we're the sole payments 3.0 provider in the verticals that we serve.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: A classic example is you think about the payment experience of Amazon or you think of the payment experience of Uber, where it feels completely seamless.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: That's what consumer's expectation is now and I would consider that a Payments 3.0 experience.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what we provide to billers and online gaming operators.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: In the payments and fintech industry.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Merchants and their customers have increased expectations around omnichannel commerce.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: So, in collaboration with NMI, the fully integrated payment solution built to scale, we've launched the Be Solid campaign where, in this series, we'll explore the ability to accept payments anytime, anywhere, using any device.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: We'll dive deep into mobile acceptance via contactless tap on phone, qr codes, wallets and more.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: We will hear from companies like Othvia, canelo, google and more.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: To listen to the latest episodes, visit leadersandpaymentscom or nmicom.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Slash resources, slash podcasts.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: In a world full of squares and stripes, be solid.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Where do you see this space headed, say, in the next maybe three to five years?
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Certainly, there continues to be innovation in the underlying methods of payment things like real-time payments in FedNow and stuff like that.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: That's coming right, and we'll see innovation also from the traditional innovators that we've interacted with, and so obviously we have to incorporate those things.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: But there's something bigger going on that, I think, is really important, and it's where the payments 3.0 thing matters.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: For the longest time now, interest rates have been zero and, for example, if you're a lender, you had a really good, ongoing, profitable business.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: But when your underlying cost of funds is rising quickly, your operating margins get squeezed, and to ensure that you can remain profitable and viable, it's important that you start looking at all the parts of your income statement that are generating costs, and customer service is a big part of that, and so our continuing to innovate in ways that reduce the cost of serving consumers in their desire to pay our clients is a huge investment area for us, right.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: So doing that by continuing to add self-service and workflow capabilities and then increasingly adding, over time, we think, ai capabilities where we can optimize, for example, the kind of tender type that a consumer is presented with that they're most likely to make a payment with, or use AI capabilities to simplify customer service, or use AI capabilities to simplify reconciliation.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: All of these things go to the same thing, which is reducing the system's costs around payments and ensuring that our clients can be as profitable as they can be in an environment that's a lot tougher to operate in than it was, say, five years ago.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: So do you see AI in your team's sort of technology and maybe you do a lot of this today but based on a consumer's history of paying whether it's that particular bill or maybe even others that they're offered certain incentives to pay a certain way, is that part of AI or is that part of what your system does today?
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: So the promise of AI here is to make things simpler for consumers.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: One way to do that, for example, would be to present to a consumer the form of tender that they are most likely to complete a payment with, by way of example, so what you want to do is use whatever data you have available to you to optimize that.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Now let's be very clear, though, that there are real guardrails that have to be in place around this.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: You have to be credibly careful that you're doing this in an ethically irresponsible way and that you aren't doing anything that looks at all like redlining or the create liability for the client or for us or for anybody else there, and so we have a very large data set of payment history, and you can imagine integrating that with external data, even data like weather, to optimize what you present to the consumer in terms of how they pay, but you got to make sure you do that in a way that absolutely stays far away from anything that could be problematic from an ethical or responsibility perspective.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Is there anything that you see in the horizon around the cash business that's going to change in the next few years, or do you see that just continuing to grow as it is?
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I think that just keeps going.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: There are many consumers who budget with cash, who prefer to pay with cash, certainly in the gaming industry, who consider it the most responsible way to manage their play, and I don't see that going anywhere.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: But, to be clear, it's a minority of payment.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: What's important to think about?
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Let me give you another framework to think about all this, which is the percentage of the volume of the payment.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Portfolio is one graph, but if you put next to it the graph of where does the expense go, associated by a tender type, it's very different.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Let's think about ACH payments.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Ach payments are the vast majority of payments for large numbers of billers and in most cases they're incredibly inexpensive.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: They're incredibly expensive.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: When the consumer who's paying with ACH hits an NSF, has insufficient funds, you've got a bad payment, you've got a reversal, you've got NSF fees and all that.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: So managing the problem payments the money goes into the problem payments.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: The work that we do and, of course, the opportunity for AI here is to reduce problem payments and to make addressing problem payments as inexpensive as possible, and that's a really rich technical problem that we're really good at.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: I like that framework.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: You don't necessarily think about the cost of servicing that the way you put it.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: As I'm fond of saying, payments wants to be free.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: In the go right case of your least expensive payment thing, all you're doing is debiting one ledger and crediting another.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: People want to pay for that right Right.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: But it's when it doesn't go right that it gets really expensive.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: That's where the effort needs to go To make as many things go right as possible and to take the cases that don't go right and make them as inexpensive to manage as possible.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: And that's not basis points off for processing, that's percentage points off the income statement.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: Right, I love that view.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Well, before we leave this area, is there anything else you wanted to mention as far as the company, since we last talked in 2020?
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I'd say the only thing that we're super excited about is the scale and the prestige, I guess, of the clients that we're signing up.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: What we do for people is incredibly important.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: We make sure they get paid, and if they don't get paid, that's painful, and so when we enter a new vertical, the largest accounts in that vertical aren't necessarily going to say oh yeah, let me go work with these guys.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Over time, what's happened is the kinds of accounts we're signing up, the size of them, their reputations, et cetera, has continued to become more and more impressive, and that's because we've earned the trust of the accounts that we're serving to date.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: So we're all about.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: If you look at our top five objectives as a company, our number one objective is keep our existing clients happy, both because it's our existing ongoing revenue stream and because they are the people that give us the reputation that attract the next set of people to work with us.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So I'm super proud of the way that the company has served our clients well and caused bigger and more famous companies to come on board as clients, and hopefully that's a virtuous cycle that continues to go, and meanwhile we make sure we're taking care of absolutely everybody in our portfolio.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Well, let's switch gears a little bit and talk about you.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: So tell us a little bit about your entrepreneurial background and maybe how and why you started Payneer Me.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I'm laughing only because Payneer Me is not at all what I thought it was going to be when we started out, but I will tell you that I'm in my sixties now.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I've been doing this a long time and no business I have ever started ended up being the thing I thought it was going to be when we started.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: The company that is now Payneer Me started is something that was facilitating payments and social gaming, and we ended up striking a relationship with 7-Eleven for cash payments, and when people found out about it, they said things like, wow, we accept cash payments in Japan through 7-Eleven, can we do that here?
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: And we said sure, and so we exited the social gaming business and ended up with billers, and the first billers, as I mentioned, were in gaming and in lending.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And then we've just kept listening to what people wanted and building for them and growing the business up.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: What I would say is interesting is probably the biggest mistake we made in the history of the company was, for many years, after we were doing cash, our clients asked us to process cards in ACH and, as I'm fond of saying because I'm a genius, I kept saying no because my view was that that was a commodity business and we'd be a sub-scale player in a commodity business, as opposed to cash, where we were like the only people doing what we did and it was really unique and special.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: I didn't think we would have a differentiated offering there.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And what I didn't realize until one of our customers made it very clear to us was that if you take into a single settlement cash, which is not a commodity, and add cards in ACH and everything else, that integrated settlement is not a commodity.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: And once we started doing that for people, then instead of dealing with, say, 5 or 10% of their receivables, we were dealing with 80 or 90% of their receivables.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Then we became their strategic partners and then, by doing a good job of that, they asked us to do more, which is why we would then add all those different interfaces or those different business logic, or now the AI or all the things we're doing.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: And that's just from like doing what our customers wanted and realizing that if you put all that together, it's not a commodity.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: It's actually a highly differentiated, seamless experience.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: You're certainly not unique in that you're not doing now what you started.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Having had a lot of these conversations, many of them are well, we don't do exactly what we started out to do Very common.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: I've had quite a few startups.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I've had good outcomes and none of them has been what we originally set out to do.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: There are very few Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerbergs in the world who can sort of see it and design the ideal product.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: My view is in starting a business is you start with a good idea and you go pitch it to people and then you just adjust and they'll tell you, particularly in B2B.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: They'll tell you what they want and what they don't want.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: You listen to them and you do a good job for them.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: You're fairly likely to build a good business.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: I would totally agree with that.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: What is the best part of being the CEO there at PainterMe the?
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: people I get to work with, unlike things I've done in my past life where I could use the product.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not a biller, I don't get to send out those stuff myself, so I don't get to use our product as much, but I get to work with incredibly talented people who are genuinely nice and smart and hardworking and have high integrity, and that's a unique set of attributes of people I get to work with every day.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: So last time we talked you were a fitness swimmer.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, that has not changed.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I'm still a mermaid.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: You're still a mermaid.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: Okay, I had to make sure that we covered that, because I think that's important All.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about is I've gotten slower, but I'm still out there.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Well, you're still doing it, so that's important.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Any new hobbies In COVID?
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: we started a walking group, so good long walks on the days that I'm not swimming.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I will tell you an interesting thing, though that every year, I make a shirt for the mermaids, and for the last 15 years or so, I would go to one of the online sites to find some overseas artists who would design the shirt, and this year, this shirt will be designed by Dolly.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: It's fascinating to me the experience of using some of these generative AI tools to do things that I would have done in a different way before.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Just as an aside, that's a fascinating little observation.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I and millions of other people are having the same incredible, eye-opening experience through that.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: So do you have the slogan, yet yes, I do.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know that it's going to say any given Sunday, but I don't think that'll make sense to anybody better than us.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, we do a thing on Sunday called Civilized Sunday Swimming, which is we start later and we have breakfast afterwards, and you can imagine some combination of swimming and breakfast being represented in that shirt and any given Sunday being the tagline for it.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: And, of course, in 2020, the tagline, of course, was best year ever.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Best year ever Right.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: We've covered a lot of ground, obviously, Danny, about you and your background, about the company, the fascinating things that you guys are doing and have expanded on the business in the last couple of years.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap up the show?
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I think you got it all covered.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: My expectation is that we will continue to grow, and you know we'll do some three years and we'll have more interesting stuff to talk about then.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Great, let's do it.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Danny, thank you so much for being on the show.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: I know your time is very valuable, so I really appreciate you being here.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you and congratulations on the growth of your podcast.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: I appreciate that, and to all you listeners out there, I thank you for your time as well, and until the next story.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in Payments podcast.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Make sure you visit our website at leadersinpaymentscom, where you can subscribe to the show and where you'll find our show notes.
• 23:26
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