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Beyond the Barre - Why Ballet Matters in Competitive Dance · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the least performed dance styles in competition, yet the one that we insist is the most important.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, ballet.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Today on Making the Impact, we bring ballet downstage center to discuss how to keep the style relevant in a world that doesn't seem to value tradition.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: Hi everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here today with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: Hi everyone.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: We are right in the middle of competition season, and choreography is solid, and now is the time to get down on our technique, and we are going to be talking about ballet class today.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Not just class, but ballet at competition.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: But before we jump in, we, me and Leslie both want to say, thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: To all our listeners and subscribers who have been tuning in throughout the entire season and staying with impact throughout all of this.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: We've had such a blast making this happen.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's been so much fun.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: We've covered so many great topics throughout this season one of Making the Impact.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: And season two is just around the corner, and we're gonna have even more awesome topics coming your way then.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: But for now, make sure that you stay subscribed.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: We have episodes launching every Monday throughout the end of May for the dance season.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to follow us on Instagram and Facebook to stay up to date on our social media where we have judges tips every Tuesdays, and we have a judges blog that launches bi-weekly.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: So all of our judges are writing fabulous blog articles.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: And speaking of blog articles, one of our judges is that is joining us today has written some of the blog articles that you can go check out.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: So be sure to do that.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: But next up are reviews.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: We've had fabulous, fabulous reviews coming in from all of our listeners.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we are so appreciative.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody who's taken the time to give us a shout out on social media, to share and review, especially on Apple Podcasts.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Those really help us out.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to say a special thank you to listener A.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Leiden, who says, this has quickly become one of my favorite podcasts.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: As a dance teacher and choreographer, I truly look forward to these weekly discussions and opinions.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for finally creating the podcast all of us have desperately craved for so long.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that is such a great review.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: A Leiden, thank you so much.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody out there, if you are listening and you like what you hear and you want to hear more next season, all of your reviews help us to gain more traction in podcast land and get out to more people.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we really appreciate all that you do.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so today we are talking about everyone's favorite or least favorite style of dance, ballet.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: We have some wonderful guests with us today to dive deep into the ballet world.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I would love to welcome our first IDA judge and guest, Miss Carrie.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, hello, how are you?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, everybody.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm great.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: How are you?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing well, and I would love for you to share with all of our listeners out there a little bit about you, where you're from, who you are, career credits that you want to share, and what you're up to now.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, currently I live in Hampstead, Maryland, which is near Baltimore, and I teach at a couple different studios and direct a nonprofit youth ballet.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: I danced uh with several different companies, uh, beginning with Milwaukee Ballet, David Taylor Dance Theater, and uh ending up with Missouri Contemporary Ballet, and have appeared as a guest artist and choreographer, and been teaching a long, long time.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much, Carrie.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: And next up is the fabulous Holly.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: Hi there, how are you?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: Please share with everyone any of your career credits, where you're located, your background, and anything else.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I am from Maine.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I live in central Maine with my family, and I am a BFA graduate of SUNY Buffalo.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there I majored in dance.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what I loved about their program was extremely well-rounded.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I come from a background of both Chiquette and Vaganova Ballet.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So my training has been diverse in ballet, and those are basically the two areas that I focus on in my teaching and training and judging.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: I also am the dance director at the Maine Arts Academy, which is new performing arts high school in central Maine.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I teach at a number of studios and have been judging for over 15 years.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: You guys are so fabulous.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for joining us on this great episode topic, ballet, which you guys obviously specialize in.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Holly and Carrie, thank you guys so much again.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: We appreciate you taking the time and I'm so excited to hear your thoughts on the ballet world.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to mention, as usual, that all of our episodes for the first season of Making the Impact are based on previous hot topic blogs from the IDA Judges blog.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: This episode was inspired by a blog titled Bring Ballet Back Resurrecting the Art Form for Competitive Dancers that was released in April of 2018.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Carrie recently this season wrote a ballet blog as well, which is linked in the show notes.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, listeners, if you guys want even more ballet, check out www.impactdanceadjudicators.com slash judges blog to read more.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, ladies, I think we have got so many topics to cover within the world of ballet tonight, but I would like to start with a question.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Both of you teach, both of you have, you know, taught in different levels in different kinds of studios, I'm guessing.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: But how can teachers in a competition studio keep ballet exciting and relevant in a culture where, you know, we're it's very much a culture of tradition is kind of flown out the window, I think, in today's world.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious to hear your thoughts about how we can keep ballet relevant in the competitive world.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, I'll start.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot to say about this, actually.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think the biggest the biggest thing is keeping it light and fun and bringing the energy to your class.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: So as a teacher, if you go in, especially at a competition studio, if you go in and you're too strict and a little overbearing in that sense, that's gonna carry over to the student.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: So if you go in with a lot of energy, a lot of positivity, uh, you'll wanna be complimentary too.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the students will lighten up, relax a little bit, have fun and enjoy what they're learning.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think and and everybody's had that old school ballet teacher where they're like, no, no, not like that.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do it again.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, no.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then you never really get it right.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of like, well, this isn't fun.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really fun to do anything that you don't think you're good at.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: So why would anybody want to do ballet to say about that?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's really great to to give compliments and when they're doing a correction right, praise them, make a big deal out of it, even the little things, so that they can feel good about themselves, whether they, you know, are gonna be a ballerina or not.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: It can you can still have fun and learn from class.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the positivity aspect is such a good note to you know to think of.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I remember one instance when I was taking ballet at at the ballet studio in town.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't go to the ballet studio, but I did go and take class there sometimes.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, you know, not up to that level of those students in high school, but I was still there.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying my best and I was wanting to learn.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I had one of those old school ballet teachers, it's Ruth Mitchell, for anybody who's from the Atlanta area.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: She was like 90 years old, she had a cane, she would bang the cane on the floor, she sat on a chair, and I would we were going across the floor doing PK turns.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And in my group, which was only two of us, we got across the floor and she said, The bad girls need to go again.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we just went back around and did our PK turns again.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't get any correction.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: There was no like, you know, you're bad because, or this could be better because.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's I I had other positive influences in ballet in my life.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: But that one, you know, if I had heard that week after week, I certainly wouldn't have gone back.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing I'd love to add in keeping it exciting is we all know the importance of a ballet bar and how that can be sometimes monotonous for students and to do our plies and tendus and rendezjams and so on and so forth.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we keep it exciting?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we we do bar at the bar, sometimes we do bar in the center, sometimes we do bar on the floor, also mix it up with the music.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I often use some fun classical ballet music that has pop tunes, but other times I'll mix it up and use Christmas music when it's holiday season or Lady Gaga because it's fun, or something like that just so that they're happy when they're doing their frappes and they're not gritting their teeth.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So things like that can help keep it fun and relevant and exciting.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And another game that I like to play sometimes is go through the room.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, plie exercise, I assign you to create this in the room.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then Susie, it's your turn, you create the Tondu exercise, and Mary, it's your turn, you create the Randajam exercise, and so on and so forth, so that they all have a part to play in it, and that keeps it fun and exciting as well.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And to piggyback on that, I think that making sure you teach artistry and musicality in the ballet classroom is important too.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you can even, you know, give the dancers a character to portray during grand allegro, and then, you know, make this a a happy grand allegro, make this one sad, or make you know, you can get creative with that.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course, playing with the timing and the music will also carry over to their to their other styles.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if they have solos in competition, that's what really can set a solo apart is the musicality.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, absolutely.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: I say that I was actually thinking that the other day, and not just in regards to ballet, but like you're mentioning in all styles of dance, musicality is gonna make or break it for me.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's gonna take you to the next level as a dancer, and ballet is a perfect place to uh continue to explore and work on that.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of leading out of that question, you know, we often hear that old, you know, saying is, you know, ballet is the foundation of all dance forms.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes to some extent, but no to other extents.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna like harp on that discussion, but we do, I think we can all agree that ballet is helpful to other styles of dance.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And how can we, how can we elaborate on that a little bit?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things that I find as a judge saying over and over again is find your plie and be comfortable with getting into the floor.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think because of that, you know, going back to ballet being the foundation, so to speak, that being able to utilize your plie in every transition, in every movement so that the floor is your friend, sort of is that foundation for me.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the more students become comfortable with that particular foundation, whether it be in ballet, whether it be in tap, whether it be in hip hop, jazz, and so on and so forth, I think it it there's no limit to where you can take that.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Agreed, agreed.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Ballet helps with core strength and like you said, the coordination and weight change, which all translate into your jumps and your center work.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: It translates crosses right over to jazz and all the styles.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know there's it's a pretty hot topic if hip hop dancers need to take ballet or not.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it it's always best to be well-rounded and be able to do all styles and be really versatile, especially if you want to stay employed your whole career.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes you're gonna have to pick up gigs on the side and be able to do both.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think ballet dancers also need to be able to do hip-hop.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And vice versa.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's gonna make or break your career as a hip-hop dancer if you don't take ballet.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's very possible to, you know, become a hip-hop dancer without it.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: But uh in general, it's always best to just be the most versatile dancer you can be.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it it will it will help you more than it will hurt you, you know, in terms of those other kinds of styles that, you know, I I don't think it's fair to say, you know, ballet is the root of all styles because there's so many styles that exist solely of themselves, but just any additional training in anything that's similar at all, I think is definitely reasonable to think about.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think that's very valid.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that something that I feel, you know, ballet helps that I notice is just how people carry themselves and and your posture.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like you immediately I can like walk down the streets of New York City and spot a dancer immediately just by the way they walk.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it really comes from the ballet bar and and their training.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: So even engaging your arms from your back, things like that that help you in other styles of dance, knowing how to have a beautiful portabra and knowing how to have the delicate quality of your upper body and you know, and then utilizing that in a dynamic jazz and making sure that your arms are supported properly.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: The upper body is definitely trained from the ballet bar.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of that carries over in all styles of dance.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: And when you think about that in the younger classes, like the beginning levels, the the first thing you want to work on in ballet class is your posture and your alignment.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that transfers directly over to your to your jazz training as well, you know, with pirouettes and all of that.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: So from the very beginning, you want to be working on your posture.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it also translates into tap as well, especially if you're doing, you know, any sort of classic upper body epaulement with your Broadway tap.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, this just it's it's just the the look that you're looking for.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think you can get that anywhere but ballet with the open chest and the you know, shoulder blades pulled back together and just nice and strong.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that ballet foundation shows up everywhere.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And when you were mentioning, Courtney, about the arms coming from the back, that is another comment that I can't say enough of for dancers.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it definitely comes from ballet, but it is is required and necessary for all forms of dance, as far as making sure that you're engaging those large back muscles, those lats to support your arms, to support your portebra, so you can have that lovely fluidity and have that beautiful posture and not let the shoulders come with the arms every time you take your arms through any sort of portebr.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Now, something that I want to kind of discuss when it comes to ballet and how important it is, and something that I see that is lacking on the competition stage is proper use of rotation and turnout.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that I can immediately see in a dancer on stage if they actually take ballet, honestly, based on where their leg position is in Alasakan or in a side bat ma or things like that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: There is oftentimes every the whole leg is usually inverted in as opposed to using our rotators to maintain the rotation and show a turned out position.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Same applies for a turned out posse in a pirouette.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: I often see our pelvis rotated forward with the hip up, and we're not using the proper muscles to find our actual rotation.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I just, it's it's very interesting for me to see because we I see a lot of flexibility on stage, but I see a lot of lack of rotation being used.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that stems from improper training at the ballet bar or not focusing on that in ballet class properly.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that goes back to what we were talking about with posture and the early beginning training.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't have your pelvis in alignment, then you really can't hold your turnout.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: If your pelvis is tipped forward, you physically can't rotate outwards from your hips.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: It just won't work.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's so important to be able to have your pelvis in proper proper placement and then you can turn out and then you're able to feel the muscles that hold that turnout too.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And in ballet turning, if you're, you know, like you said, in all of the cone turns, if your leg is turned in, then you obviously haven't been standing at the bar and just holding that second position in the right placement over and over and over again and creating that muscle memory.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And early on with the newbies to ballet, one of the things that I often do, and I know a lot of teachers do, is have folks start in a parallel first or a sixth position and then work those turnout muscles, put your weight in your heels, lift the toes, and drop them to your natural turnout, to your natural first.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen, you know, some of those teachers with the canes that that are super hardcore, they force you to go beyond your natural turnout.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when you can tell in competition when that has been happening in class because folks are rolling in and their arches and they're rolling in.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not, they're sickling in a lot of their tondues and things of that nature because they're forcing their turnout.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You have to find that natural turnout first before you can continue to develop it and and improve it.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So just being careful not to force it beyond where it exists too early, because that can cause so many problems.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're so lucky now that, you know, we have so much more education behind a lot of our educators to know that, okay, we don't have to force turnout.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have to ask people to move beyond their personal bodies' ability to turn out or to extend or to lift or whatever it is.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, there were so many, we just muscled things through, I think, for such a long time as dancers.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and now only now the science is being able to back up, like, okay, well, your leg just can't do that forever properly, you know, if we're not gonna do it right.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm very grateful that we have educators like you guys who, you know, who know the proper way to do things and like, yes, we can still be beautiful and do all of these beautiful technical things, but maybe it's a little lower, maybe it's a little safer, maybe you're gonna save your body for a little longer.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I I think that's great to mention as well because less is sometimes more.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think in this generation of dancers that are up and coming, we're so focused on this like over-flexible, hyper mobile, like over stretching, over splits type of thing that is very new to me because I didn't really do that when I was growing up.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think that we're seeing a lot of that on the stage, which is totally fine, but I don't see that ballet foundation backing up that flexibility and backing up a lot of those things.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: So we have to make sure that we're training safely and properly for longevity with our bodies.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: We only get one body.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, we got to make sure that we are using those muscles properly.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: So if we we want to overstretch all we want in acro class and whatever other class you do and at home, but when we get to the ballet bar, it shouldn't be about how high can I get my leg.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: It should be how am I properly placing my leg using the correct rotation, using the correct placement so it can translate over into other styles.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Having the strength and stability to support it is is absolutely where to begin and continue.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: So let's talk about ballet at competition.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: And speaking of that, we don't often, as judges, see ballet at competition.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I would say maybe like 10% of the time.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that sounds reasonable.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like we just talked about how beneficial and how necessary ballet is in our dance training.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: And even like Holly, you mentioned this, and I'm sure all four of us have said it, and probably every judge in existence on a critique tape has probably said, take more ballet, take an extra day a week of ballet, get back into ballet class, something like that.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: Which I know some people have have said that they don't like when they hear judges say that, which sorry, you know, yeah, sorry.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that it's a it's advice, it's helpful advice.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm trying to I'm trying to make you get even better.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: You could go sore beyond ext, you know, you have all the potential if you take one extra bat day of ballet.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, why do you feel like we don't see ballet at competition?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a reason?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Is you know, I'm just curious to hear your initial thoughts on on that because it's very obvious that no one registers ballet dances at competition and there's gotta be a reason.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know personally that when I see a ballet come up, I just I jump on wanting to see that super clean technique and all of the things that come with it.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when it's not super clean, I am automatically or or immediately let down because it's not as clean as it could be.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think uh I remember hearing you, Courtney, say in one of your QA podcasts earlier in the season that, you know, that you were asking folks or folks were asking what judges prefer, whether it's simple and clean or more advanced, but maybe they can't do it perfectly.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I lean definitely toward what you were saying in that podcast that it needs to be simpler and cleaner to start.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Fine, work on those more advanced steps and your fute turns and your alissagon turns and all of those things in your technique class, no problem.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's not perfected, don't take it on the stage because all too often I see, especially in solos, people throwing those those turns in or any sort of technique that they're not quite ready to execute in a competition, they're there too soon.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't hesitate to perfect that in class before you put it on stage.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, agreed, agreed.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: I too get very, very excited when I see ballet coming up when I'm judging.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then it just like you said, I often see dancers with steps in their choreography that they're not ready for.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, a six year old doing a tour j'eté.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: That might be a little extreme, but I don't think six year olds are ready for tour jetaes or fouetes or you know, anything like that.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I would rather see really clean.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Tondus, quasi de fleet includes in some cortebra or some, you know, just really simple, simple choreography that is appropriate for their age and ability.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's everything.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's kind of that's the mark of a good ballet teacher, too, is knowing when they're ready for more and when they're not, and when, you know, what type of choreography they should have on stage.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's the reason I think we don't see a lot of ballet on stage is because unlike so many other styles of dance, ballet is ballet.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: It is right or it is wrong.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you did not rotate all the way around in your pirouette with a high passe that was connected and turned up from the hip and on releve and all, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, that was not a pirouette.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's I literally feel like that.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you did not turn if you did not do all 17 points of a turn.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And people know that.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can hide behind your artistry in this lyrical dance where you fell out of that turn, but it was beautiful because I reached over there afterwards.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, ballet doesn't have that.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna reach over there afterwards, you better be reached in that fourth position, you know, with all the A Paul Mont and everything else.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think I think there's a fear element.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's an intimidation element.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: There is an element of, you know, exactly what you two ladies just said, and I'm I'm fully in agreement with you, but I can see how teachers would say, well, I'm not even gonna bother because I never score well, because these these judges are always looking for perfection and we don't have perfection.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, but also you just gave them good advice.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Take it down.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do that, don't don't do the double pirouette, don't do the beat in your in your jete.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Take it down.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do what you can do.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, is it gonna be exciting and vibrant and maybe not.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's gonna be clean.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's sometimes all I want.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: When I see ballet come to the stage of competition, I also get very excited because, like we all said, we don't see it.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: So we're like, oh, this is different.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, first of all, you're our you're all right from the beginning, you're different because everyone and their brother has a contemporary dance.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Bring me something else to the stage.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: So now we're gonna bring out a ballet dance, and I'm like, oh, exciting.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, of course, we all judge ballet hard because, like you said, Leslie, it's right or it's wrong.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's the dear honest truth.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: There is really that's all to it, you know?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: And we are judging based on your age.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: So we're making sure that you're not doing things that are too advanced for your age, and we're also judging based on your level.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna be a little bit more lenient if you're, you know, in an intermediate level.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: You might not take ballet as frequent or whatever the case may be, but I feel like that when you come to stage with ballet, especially as a studio, like I love when studios bring groups of ballet to the stage, and I've been watching you like kill it and all these other styles and like your contemporary's fierce, and then you come out and you do tap, and then you bring out a ballet.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to see the foundation of your training.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like we kind of talked about, you know, it's not the foundation of everything, but I appreciate that the studio is all right, let me show you how great our technique is, or let me show you what we're working on, because we might be rock star contemporary dancers.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: We're still working out the kinks and ballet, but that's okay.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's it's exciting for me.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: It helps me more to see an overall picture from a studio and the versatility.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that's what makes me excited is not being afraid to show the versatility.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because something that we've also that I know I personally have discussed on a previous podcast episode is how sometimes we can kind of as studios get lumped into like specific genres and like categories and like classifications.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: So when we're judging, we're like, oh, that's the prop studio.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, that's the studio that has like really cool like head pieces.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes we I want to see the versatile studio.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: I want to see the studio that brings a little taste of everything.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: And if they're not afraid to bring ballet to the stage and, you know, maybe get ripped a new one or maybe not, you know?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like they shouldn't be they shouldn't be afraid of it because you're gonna get critiques and you're gonna grow regardless.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's I think it should be supported.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that being said, I know that there's a handful of competitions that offer free ballet routines.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: If you bring a ballet, the entry fee is free because they want you to bring ballet to the stage.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's so great.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what an honor for a studio to be noticed as, you know, that versatility award that some competitions give when they see a studio that brings something from every genre.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: What an honor.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're not, like you said, Courtney, not perfect at every single genre.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: We all have our strengths and weaknesses, but to do that, that shows something pretty special too.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, I mean, I would say 10 times out of 10, every single time, even if your ballet dance is not perfect, even if you've threw in too much for that level or that age group, I will always say thank you for bringing your ballet dance to competition because I appreciate it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, when you're three years old, what do you start doing?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: You start taking ballet.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's not a ton of three-year-old beginner jazz classes out there.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: You were starting with ballet.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and I know that.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like we all know that.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: We probably all started with ballet first and then you add it on everything else because in America, that is typically what we do.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know it may be different in other places, but that's kind of why we call it the foundation of all dance styles, because that's where typically, you know, our culture and our community starts.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And to see it just sort of drop off as we get older, like is just a little sad for sure.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering what we can do as judges, as teachers, as educators, how can we help support ballet in the competitive world?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we've already got some competitions that are, you know, offering these free ballet entries.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's one way.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's like incentivizing bringing ballet.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else we can think of?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think offer a ballet masterclass.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: I know I always have a great time teaching ballet master classes at competitions and conventions when they have them.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it can be really eye-opening for the kids.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just good for them to have exposure to other teachers.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if they're not in a in a classical ballet studio setting where they have access to several different ballet teachers, I think it's great for them to be exposed to other ballet teachers and just get that get that opportunity.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so important to expose your dancers to other teachers for sure.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know that some studios are very set in their ways.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I have so much respect for studios that encourage their students to take classes from other folks, you know, get out there to as many conventions as you can.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or if there are master classes in your area, don't be afraid to try them because it is so important to broaden your horizons and not get stuck in any sort of, you know, single comfort zone.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: And as teachers, we all know that when our students hear a correction that we've given over and over and over again from another teacher, and then the light bulb goes off.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: We just have to laugh.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: But that's, you know, somebody says a correction a different way and then it clicks, that's great.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think that another thing that I've noticed in the convention scene is that oh, there's a handful of conventions that don't offer ballet in the convention world, and that's okay, but then there's a handful that do.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I love those because I think it's important to have ballet at a convention weekend.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're training hard and all these other styles.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: Why isn't ballet a part of that?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I think a lot of conventions were like, yeah, we gotta get ballet up in here.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: So they got they now they have ballet.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: And some cool things that I've noticed are there's a few conventions on the scene that are now offering ballet bar at conventions.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, nice.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: I will make a shout out to Rebel because they are doing that.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: But but uh I really, really love that they're offering that.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: So they have all the chairs, they set up a bunch of chairs for the dancers, and sometimes they'll stack two chairs on top if the chair's too low for them, they need a higher bar, and they'll have the ballet bar.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I know at Revel specifically, they only offer it to the the teen and senior levels of the convention.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, they're coming and taking ballet.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's a few conventions that actually host a point class in the morning, which is exciting.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's like I can't, I can't be more excited about that because it's showing that, like, I feel like that the convention world specifically is very commercial style.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're gearing it to like an LA, more commercial, I'm going to be a professional dancer type of scene.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like that maybe the ballet dancers that want to attend might get discouraged or lost in the mix.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, I think that it's also showing that the dancers who are training to become professionals or commercial dancers that, hey, ballet is important.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, you should be in this point class.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Point is important.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, a word of advice, like me as a professional dancer who is not a ballet dancer.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: I am a theater jazz dancer.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up doing ballet, I grew up doing point and I quit because it hurt and I my feet aren't good.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like that that's truly like why I quit.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: I regret it to this day that I never pursued point further than like beginner, because there's so many jobs on Broadway once I got to New York that I auditioned for on the daily that need point dancers.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: American in Paris.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Phantom of the Opera.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Phantom of the Opera.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Anastasia.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: All of these are always like, hey, do you do point?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, do you do point?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what they mean by that, because point in the musical theater world means bore, boy, boy, maybe a PK turn.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Reach over there while you tondu darier.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: It does not mean crazy, you know, ABT level stuff.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a really good point, Courtney.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Point.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Pose that, you know, maybe your feet aren't the best.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it I I did the same.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I quit after high school because I was like too short, feet are bad, this hurts, the end.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um But you know, it it will come in handy to at least be able to do a little bit of the basics, keep your in especially for strengthening.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, goodness, like that's that's key as well.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's so exciting that it's at some conventions now.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that I think that a lot of the competition industry in general is kind of like, yeah, we gotta bring ballet back.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's bring this back into the mix, come dance ballet for free with your studio, you know, compete for free, take a ballet bar class.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think that's great.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said, Carrie, I think that if competitions offered a ballet class, that would be awesome.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Why not?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: The more ballet, the better.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: More ballet the better.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think it's it's it's important, I think, to mention too that we're speaking about the more commercial dance competition world.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there is obviously a whole nother classical ballet competition world that we are not diving into that, you know, that has that could be a whole podcast in its in and of itself, that world.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, not we're not negating that, we're not saying that doesn't exist, but that's definitely not the world we're we're in right now.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And speaking of that world, just if you guys have any anything to to mention about that, do you think that, you know, and I don't I think I know the answer to this, but is ballet better off staying put over there or is it welcomed on our side, quote unquote?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I definitely think it's welcomed.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it belongs just in prestigious ballet competitions like YGP.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I think YGP is great.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: I take my students to it each year, but no, I think they're they definitely should cross over.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's a wonderful idea to cross over because I think, you know, as we were talking about keeping things simple and being able to display that students have an under great understanding of the foundation of ballet.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that you can do to make your choreography interesting is, you know, showing their musicality as well as formation changes and use of the stage and all of those things.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you can take that to the competition stage, not just YGP, you know, not I think there's room for it everywhere you go.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: People I think tend to look at ballet as, you know, the elitist art form, but it's definitely, definitely for everybody.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think everybody needs more exposure to the arts, any any way they can get it.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we're all we're all artists, no matter what type of dance you're doing.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it definitely any opportunity to put your art out there is a good one.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so refreshing too when it does come to the competition stage as a judge.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's such, you know, so few and far between that we get to see it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it is, it does bring a smile to my face for sure when you do see a well-done ballet routine.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I'll stand up sometimes.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: I get so excited.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yes, that was it, guys.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like when someone comes out and nails that variation, I'm just I'm loving it.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm living for it.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's just so refreshing to see all that hard work, that flawless technique.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm I'm kind of curious to to hear your guys' perspectives on like point at competition.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: I know that it's always kind of it's hard for a lot of dancers to do point at competition because sometimes it's like super slippery or like the Marley isn't what they're used to practicing on and things like that.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: What do you look for when you see point come to the stage?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a certain requirement that you're looking for?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a specific age that you want to see it and like a no younger than a certain age, things like that?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything in particular when it comes to point?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't want to see a six-year-old on point.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's for sure.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: I hope not.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: Mostly I'm looking for alignment again and ankle strength.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if they're they've got wobbly ankles or any sort of sickling, I'm like, oh no, no, not good.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's back off and train a little bit more before we put this on stage.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Not to say that maybe they aren't aren't ready for point, but they just need more more work before performing point on stage.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: And core strength is a big one.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if they they aren't strong in the core, then they need to work on that core strength before getting their point shoes, I would say.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: I tend to be a little bit more on the strict side of when it comes to going up on point for the first time.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I think safety first.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we don't want any ankle injuries that aren't necessary.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, alignment and strength are huge.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I also look for on top of alignment for sure is making sure can they get all the way up on their box?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they can't, they're not quite ready.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Keep working.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing is I don't want to see you go into a PK on a bent knee and a bent leg.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So shutters making sure that you have those foundational skills and understanding for each other.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Those are so such key points to remember and to make sure you have a solid foundation in before um taking a point routine on stage.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: We don't expect to see perfection either.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: We know that the stage is slippery and you're wearing your point shoes on it for the first time, and that's totally nerve-wracking as a performer.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we get that.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: We're not gonna mark points off if you fall down and your point shoes, you know, we're gonna we're gonna be sad for you if you get hurt, but we're not gonna, you know, it's not gonna take away from your performance and and bring your rosin with you and and all of your tools and tricks of the trade so that you're prepared.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, before the competition starts, go scope out that stage, feel what it feels like so you know, all right, are these turns going to be, am I going to be dancing on an ice rink, or what is this going to be so that you're prepared for whatever it is you're facing?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think as a teacher too, if you're putting somebody on point on a stage, you might want to make sure they test it out.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's slippery, then you've got to say, okay, well then you need to back off on the force of your pirouettes.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need as much force force on a faster floor, or if it's really sticky, you might say, Okay, you're not gonna do your five pirouettes here.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna only do three or whatever it is.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the teachers need to guide them too, because we have to remember they're students, not professionals, and they're not gonna think of that on their own.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or sometimes this turns into a ballet dance.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like if it's that slippery, which I've seen people where it's like, this, you, this you should have changed your mind.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: You should have changed categories today because this is dangerous and it's, you know, I I I what can I do but give you the score that you deserve if you fell out of all of your turns because it was too slippery.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, like like you said, Holly, definitely check out that stage beforehand.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Almost every competition I've ever worked for will let you do that, you know, just briefly, just to see what's going on.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's also important to note, too, there's a reason that point variations are so short.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're gonna choose to do your own choreography for a point solo, don't make it two and a half minutes long.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a long time for one person to be on point.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if you were, like you said, you're a student, you're not a professional, you're not doing this as your livelihood minute, a minute and a half.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's all I need from you.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, especially if you are, you know, in a beginner or if you know, if you haven't been doing point for maybe but a couple of years, there's not much you can do.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's not how many steps can you really do in a point dance if you've only been doing it for four or five years and you're not that advanced yet.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a key thing for competition as well.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, keep it keep it simple, like we've been saying the whole time.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that it's important to for teachers to remember that they need to select a variation if that's the route they're going, if they're using the original choreography from a variation, to select that based on where their student's level is.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that sometimes I see variations that are way too advanced for the dancer on stage and they are struggling through it, especially if they're on the younger side and they're like freshly point, like one point.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: The variation itself, because they want to stay true to to the choreography, is too hard for them.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that the teachers need to make sure that we're not pushing the dancers too far, that less is always more.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I personally want to really only see point done by like teen or older.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not gonna be against it if a 10-year-old comes out and point shoes, but you better be you better be beyond your years, honestly, because most every studio is different and every dancer is different as far as when you do go to point and you know get to be in point.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: But even if you are a 10 or 11 year old on point, which is early for most, you probably shouldn't be competing it yet.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: You're still learning, you're still you should still be at the bar.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: So, like you said, Holly, like I'm with you.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: If if I see someone present their foot for a PK, any sort of PK, and pop up on top of the point shoe and then extend it straight and on a bent leg, you're not ready to do point and center at the competition stage.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's just what it is.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta go back to the bar and do your piques across with the bar, you know?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it's things like that that as judges, like we said, it's either right or it's wrong.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think for the point category specifically, I just am really looking to see those foundations, the fundamentals of point work laid out and displayed on stage and that match the dancer's agent level properly.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we also have to remember that classical ballet variations were made for soloist and principal dancers.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: So choreography is hard.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay to water it down and maybe half time something or that's totally fine.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think bottom line, too, going back to what you were saying earlier, Courtney, about you know, it's not always about how high your leg goes.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is for me, I find myself as a judge going back to don't forget to stretch your feet, stretch behind your knee, and all of these things.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: But the more that we look at a dancer, we can discover, okay, every dancer has its limits.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that might be your the full stretch of the back of your leg in your arabesque.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you can't straighten it all the way, or maybe you're hyperextended or just the opposite.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: But showing that you're working at that and being able to display that you understand the foundations is so important.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really easy for us to say, take another ballet class or take more ballet classes because it's so important to everyone's foundation.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: But really, bottom line is understanding the foundations and understanding the technique and showing that in your performance too.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and also I think, you know, like you said, uh, Holly, we can we can say all day, take another class, take another class, take another class.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, there's barriers to that, of course, for different people.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: But my advice would be make the most of the classes that you do take.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, don't squander that hour and a half, and please be an hour and a half of a ballet class, no less.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hour and 15 hour and a half.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, take it seriously.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to those corrections, you know, listen to the corrections you're getting from the the judges.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and also remembering too, and this is for any dancer, any or anybody who does anything, you know, nothing, immediate gratification doesn't exist.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you will be working.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: This there's a reason we do plas from day one to day 101 at the very first outset of the bar.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Every single dancer across the world taking a ballet bar is going to start with a plie because we have to remind our muscles how to do this.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: We have to keep it in our body.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think that is one of those another reason why ballet seems to, you know, the interest is a little bit has dropped off a little bit and people don't find it as exciting because you do have to keep doing the same thing over and over again.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a reason for that, you know?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think for me, like Courtney, you were just talking about the the ballet bar at convention where you put the chairs out.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and for me, that like brings up some wonderful feelings of community and camaraderie and like what a lovely little meditation of just a hundred people in a room doing plies.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's beautiful to me, and I love that.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wish people could find that joy in that, you know, there's there's joy in that too.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I you like took the words right out of my mouth when it with what you just said, because like I agree a hundred percent.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that you have to make the most of the ballet classes that you were given.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: We can say all we want, take more class, but like you said, if you're not making the most of it, it doesn't matter.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: You could take ballet five days a week and you can just slump through it and barely try, and you're not gonna progress.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: Or you can take ballet one or two days a week and try your hardest and work on all of all of your corrections and give it your best, and you're gonna soar beyond the dancer who's taking it five days a week and barely trying.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, not everyone can maybe everyone's like, I can't my studio doesn't offer me any more days a week.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm taking the most that I can, or I can't afford to take any more, or there's not enough time in the day.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, whatever the the reason is, that's fine.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: Just maybe.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, that the when you are taking ballet that you're taking it to its fullest potential for you so you can see yourself improve because your technique score will automatically go up higher in your favorite style, contemporary, lyrical, jazz, whatever it is, because you focus on ballet class.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: And we'll we as judges will be able to see that.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think that technique I've said it before, I mean it's not always true, but technique is like a make or break at competition.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna and it is in life as well.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you can definitely slip by in the professional world without having technique.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: If you have something else like a style or good musicality or a great look, whatever it is, like you can definitely still work, but technique is always going to be there for you and it's going to help you.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times it's, you know, coming down to comparison at scores, it's like who had the higher technique score?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: They're gonna win.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, sometimes that's just that's just how it is.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: And technique really stems from ballet for a lot of genres.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: So to close out, guys, this has been such a good combo.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know are there any current ballet dancers or companies that you're really excited about that you can share with our listeners just to check out?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there's so many.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: She laughed at me like that was I was like, oh gosh, does she have an answer?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: We've got everything is on YouTube and Instagram, and it's everywhere.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we can we can watch everybody, all the companies, like the big one, San Francisco Ballet, Boston Ballet, all of them.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's World Ballet Day every year.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: You can call them.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: I also I love watching the contemporary ballet companies too, like Lines Ballet and the RC.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, and then uh tons of regional ballet companies are doing awesome contemporary works too, and it's just there's so much, so much good stuff to watch.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, there's so many wonderful documentaries out there too on Netflix as well.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, honestly, you type in the word ballet and it's it's everywhere.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so much to see.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think I can narrow it down to one.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: So look on Netflix, look on YouTube, look on Instagram, everybody.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Just Google ballet and you'll find something to watch.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: So we talked about so many great elements as far as ballet in the competitive world and ballet in the studio and even ballet in the professional world a little bit.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: But to round things out tonight and to finish it up, do you guys, either of you have any final thoughts on when it comes to ballet in general or ballet for the competitive dance world that you'd like to share?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think one thought that's been in the back of my mind that is so important, not only in ballet, but every genre of dance.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I try to bring this thought into every class I teach to is that in your warm-up, whether it's ballet bar, whether it's jazz warm-up, tap warmup, in your progressions, in your combo, in every class you're in, think about performing it as though you're on stage.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because then when you get on stage and you're performing, it comes so much more naturally to you.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes folks have this, some some folks have just a natural knack for performance quality.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: And others really have to work at it.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you practice it as though it's your everyday way of life, it comes more naturally for those who it's a little bit more foreign to.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: So just be thinking about that.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Using your head with your porta bra at your ballet bar is so important.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's always an audience watching.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just just imagine that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Agreed.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I I would encourage students not to get too hung up on trying to achieve a certain ballet aesthetic.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to look that part, you don't have to look like a bun head.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: You can have any body type to learn ballet and enjoy ballet and perform it, and you don't really need to worry about, worry about how how you look or if you look like a ballerina or not.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for tuning in and listening to this week's episode All About Ballet at Competition.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: If you'd like to follow our guests on Instagram, you can find Carrie at CM Euchre and Holly at Call Call77.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Don't forget to head over to Apple Podcasts now to rate us and leave us a fabulous review.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: We love hearing from all of you listeners, and we may even share your review live on the air in an upcoming episode.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a dance competition question you've been dying to ask a judge?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now's your chance to send us your questions.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: We might answer them on the show and give you a shout-out, or you can choose to remain anonymous.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Submit your questions to us on our website at www.impactdanceadjudicators.com slash podcast via audio or text.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: Hey dancers, we miss seeing you on stage.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: So we decided to fix that.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: Introducing IDA's Virtual Dance Competition.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: IDA's Virtual Dance Competition will be a solo or group event held directly online from the comfort of your home.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Three IDA judges will critique and score your routine.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_03: You'll then have a chance to compete alongside other dancers from all across the world.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: We will be giving away high score awards, prizes from our sponsors, and even cash.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: Interested in competing?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: Registration is now open.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: Head to our website to learn more and contact us with any questions.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: We can't wait to see your dance.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Coming up in the next few weeks, we've got some exciting topics, including levels at competition and the April edition of QA with Courtney.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and Spotify.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: And tune in every Monday for new episodes.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: As always, we're so happy you joined us for this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for tuning in.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: Till next time, keep dancing.