Latest / The Fourcast / Iran protests: why it’s different this time - Omid Djalili

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Iran protests: why it’s different this time - Omid Djalili · The Fourcast

0:00
In a final death pangs of a regime, they are at their most
0:04
dangerous and there is a kind of scorched earth policy where the
0:08
mullahs are saying if we go and the people of Iran will be left
0:11
with a barren wasteland and we're going to kill as many of.
0:13
You as you think. That's actually happening right
0:16
now at the same time as they're weakened.
0:19
We do have an amazing opportunity here.
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So we're now in a situation where if the following
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diplomatic movements happen, you will see this regime go pretty
0:30
quickly #1. Hello and welcome to the
0:36
forecast. Iran is facing its most serious
0:39
unrest in years, with protests sweeping the country despite a
0:43
near total Internet blackout and a deadly response from security
0:46
forces. Washington is threatening new
0:49
tariffs. Western governments are debating
0:51
whether to escalate sanctions and blacklist the IRGC, and the
0:55
German Chancellor says that he believed the embattled Iranian
0:58
government is in its final days and weeks.
1:01
I should also add that Washington is still threatening
1:03
military action. The stakes, in other words, are
1:05
rising far beyond Iran's borders.
1:08
One of the most outspoken voices on what should happen next is
1:12
the comedian and actor Omid Jalili.
1:14
Born in London to Iranian parents, he's been sharply
1:17
critical of the regime and vocal about what he believes the
1:20
international community must do next.
1:23
Omid, good to have you on the. Floor to be here, Matt.
1:25
Thank you. Let's start first of all about
1:27
you, if I may, your connection with Iran.
1:30
You just said your parents were born there.
1:32
You know, How Iranian do you, especially in these days?
1:36
I feel, I feel very Iranian. When we spoke, we spoke Persian
1:39
at home. The Iranian heritage was
1:40
something that was I was very proud of.
1:43
I went there twice when I was a kid, once when I was three, once
1:45
when I was 6, and I always felt very proud.
1:47
I was always talking about there was another kid at school who
1:49
was Iranian in my class and we spoke Persian loudly and
1:53
proudly. And then everything changed
1:56
around 1979 and all the images on the BBC and everything was
2:00
these fundamentalists and crazy people.
2:02
So we kind of went quiet. I went shy.
2:03
I suddenly became name Chico from Milan.
2:07
I did. I rejected MyHeritage.
2:09
And of course there was a complication because I come from
2:12
a persecuted minority. I'm a Baha'i and the Baha'is
2:14
were also being slaughtered and executed.
2:16
And it was something I was keeping quiet and was living
2:20
with this very difficult thought that I felt Iranian, but also
2:24
felt very rejected by other Iranians because of my the
2:27
Baha'i faith that was my family's.
2:29
And how's that changed over the years, and especially at moments
2:32
like this? Hugely.
2:34
Things have hugely changed, I think as the regime has gone on.
2:37
People kept quiet. You know, we talked about this,
2:40
that Bahais were kind of killed and then they were thrown in a
2:44
ditch and to get the bodies back you had to pay lots of money.
2:48
And also the invoice included bullets, the bullets that were
2:50
used to kill your loved ones. You had to pay for that.
2:53
But the Iranian society kept quiet.
2:55
They said that's them, that's them, that's not us.
2:58
And then as they started really persecuting people of all walks
3:02
of life, all civilians in Iranian society, people thought
3:05
this is wrong. And we have to like when, when
3:07
they, we, we never spoke up for the Bahais.
3:09
We never spoke up for the Baluchis or or the Jews.
3:12
So now Iranian society absolutely speaks up for the
3:15
Bahais. And we know there's an Internet
3:18
blackout at the moment. It's been going on for quite a
3:20
few days and this is unprecedented 5 days.
3:23
So what kind of information are you getting from Iran, from
3:28
friends and relatives and how you're getting it?
3:29
Yeah, we're getting it a little bit through VPN, Starlink, A lot
3:34
of these things unfortunately in cut now.
3:36
But a friend of ours unfortunately lost their
3:38
brother. And what was shocking was they
3:41
said that to release the body, you pay the money and you also
3:44
have to sign a document that this person was one of the
3:47
regime forces killed by one of the protesters.
3:50
Really. That's extraordinary.
3:51
Extraordinary. You have to lie about you know
3:53
you have. To lie about your otherwise
3:54
don't get the body so. And pay money.
3:57
And I don't think they did. They're now the protesters
3:59
saying we are not leaving the streets until they go, I mean,
4:02
and they keep killing the people.
4:03
When you consider the historical precedent that when you've had
4:06
these extraordinary outbursts of rage in the past, and this is
4:09
bigger than previous ones it seems, but we've had them in the
4:12
past periodically the regime has prevailed with brutality at the
4:16
end, yes. And so the big question is could
4:19
this happen again? Could history repeat itself,
4:21
however tragic that maybe it? Could, but we have to be very
4:24
careful in the West. Are we just going to parrot
4:26
regime narratives? I mean this is The whole thing
4:28
kicked off on the 29th of December.
4:30
I went on the Guardian website and saw the first piece that the
4:33
Guardian put out was an opinion piece by Abbas Arapchi, who's
4:37
the Islamic regime foreign minister.
4:39
And I said, what the hell are you doing, Guardian?
4:41
What the hell? And then other people were
4:43
saying, well, this is a reality. You know, that there is a there
4:46
is a line they're pushing and they're going to be quite quiet.
4:50
So will history repeat itself in the sense that will there be
4:53
another crackdown and we just move on?
4:55
We have a real responsibility in the West to not keep parroting
4:59
regime narratives and actually do something about it.
5:03
And we can very simple actions. Well, we had a story on last
5:06
night told by our reporter Poric O'Brien of, you know, two
5:09
families. In one case, their young
5:12
daughter was killed. She was shot in the head,
5:14
executed on the way home. And in another case, the kid was
5:18
arrested, the young man was arrested, and he will face his
5:20
execution on Wednesday. So that's unbelievable.
5:23
That's no trial, you know, kangaroo court, you know, the
5:26
usual stuff. And we've seen this before in
5:27
Iran. I just wonder, from what you can
5:31
glean, and we've asked this question to just about everyone,
5:33
what's different this time? Apart from the sweep, you know,
5:36
and the numbers of cities engulfed in this rage, what is
5:39
different this time? What is very different is a Gen.
5:43
Z, the younger generations, I mean, my generation of people
5:47
who saw the revolution of 79 happened, we just think, OK,
5:50
we've not that we've checked out like nothing is going to happen.
5:53
The younger people who were on TikTok and Instagram is open,
5:56
you can see and they see freedoms in the West.
5:58
They don't understand why they don't have the freedoms.
6:00
So which is very, very upsetting that a lot of those Gen.
6:03
Z people, you know, Niko Sharkarami and all these young
6:08
people were killed because they were standing.
6:10
They were the first people in the front line.
6:11
And even now we see the regime as following teenagers home
6:14
after and shooting them in the head.
6:15
So what's different now is also there's never been a figure that
6:20
the people can get behind. There has to be an opposition
6:22
leader. One has emerged and his name is
6:25
Reza Pahlavi, who is the son of the former Shah.
6:27
And and of course, that rings alarm bells for a lot of people
6:30
saying, oh, God, is this going to be, it's a legitimate concern
6:33
that, oh, we're just going to have something worse and all
6:35
that. But Reza Pahlavi is someone who
6:37
is incredibly educated. Everything he said seems to be
6:40
very reasonable. And he's talking about coming
6:42
back not to re establish the monarchy, but to help the
6:45
country transition into a secular democracy.
6:48
I want to talk about him a little bit later, but just, you
6:50
know, dwelling on the young people especially, I mean,
6:53
what's what's always struck me about Iran, and I've only been
6:56
there once, and that was quite a long time ago.
6:58
It was after 911 when we thought the things, you know, the
7:01
Americans might attack Iran, you know, somehow.
7:03
And of course, they had nothing to do with 9/11 whatsoever,
7:06
which didn't stop them from attacking Iraq.
7:08
But what really struck me then, and what I've been told by my
7:11
Iranian friends and colleagues all the time since then, is that
7:15
this is a highly educated population.
7:18
It prides itself on the number of PhDs on the great
7:21
universities. And although it is a theocratic
7:24
regime, it is also very secular in terms of its education.
7:27
Yes, it is not beyond the wit of man to imagine that young people
7:31
who've been well educated want to share in some of the spoils
7:34
and luxuries and entertainment and fun and information, you
7:39
know, and intelligent ecosystem that other young people
7:42
elsewhere are, you know, are participating in.
7:45
And that's what's happening. Except the other government, yet
7:48
again, is trying to stop it. That's actually brilliant.
7:50
I'm so shocked because it was so brilliantly said.
7:52
Matt, thank you. And I think that is the the main
7:54
thing is why Iranians are so offended by people saying, oh,
7:58
this is an American LED revolution.
7:59
It's an Israeli LED LED revolution.
8:02
Iranians have agency. They're intelligent, they know
8:05
history, and they know what they.
8:06
Do it's an ancient civilization. It's an ancient civilization,
8:09
the cradle of civilization that started in, in, in Persia.
8:12
We're very proud of King Cyrus. There's some quotes of his on
8:15
the UN building. So we're, we're very proud of
8:17
our heritage. I used to joke about the fact
8:19
that, you know, our civilization brought you language and
8:22
mathematics. We brought you a federal system
8:25
of government running hot and hot and cold water while the
8:28
early Britons were running around painting themselves blue
8:31
and buggering wild boar. And when I did that in Ipswich,
8:33
someone shouted out what's wrong with that?
8:36
Which kind of said everything, It's Ipswich.
8:38
Yeah. So, so for, for, for me, this is
8:42
something where we don't want to be patronised.
8:45
We don't want we, we don't want to get involved in kind of the
8:48
culture wars of Britain when it was very clear, you know, the
8:51
Iranian people always supported Palestinian rights.
8:54
In fact, there was a football match where the Iranian regime
8:57
came out and they were flying a Palestinian flag.
8:59
And it was quite shocking where the fans were singing stick that
9:02
Palestinian flag up your backside.
9:04
And everyone was saying, why are they saying that?
9:07
And it's not that they don't stand with Palestinians.
9:09
They know that the Islamic regime is playing lip service
9:12
to, they don't care about Palestinian rights.
9:14
They only have two focuses. And I think people listening to
9:18
this podcast need to be very clear on this.
9:20
And this is not controversial. It's written down.
9:23
There are two reasons why they're doing this and people
9:26
saying that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
9:27
So we stand with Iran because they're against Israel.
9:29
Excuse me, Not only does Iran want the destruction of Israel,
9:33
but if you look at the IRGC constitution, it is ultimately
9:38
to kill all Jews everywhere. So if you're supporting Iran,
9:42
that is the narrative you're support.
9:43
Although the degree to which, for instance, Reza Pahlavi, the
9:48
the son of the Le Char supports Israel and is supported by
9:52
Israel, you know, is incredibly controversial.
9:55
And I've got, you know, Iranian friends have been texting me
9:58
saying how dare you put anyone who is, you know, who is
10:02
associated with Reza Pahlavi, you know, on your program
10:05
because this guy is an Israeli stooge.
10:08
Now, there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that, but
10:11
but the fact that the Iranian community, you know, is so
10:15
divided amongst itself, yes, about who to support, who not to
10:18
support. There were 2020 Iranian
10:22
opposition television channels here out of Los Angeles often
10:25
called Terangeles because of the Iranian community alone.
10:29
So there is division in your community whether you like it or
10:31
not. That, that, that, that's no
10:33
question of that. And you know, the the way
10:35
Iranian culture is, we're we're divided in our families and
10:38
we're divided whenever we all get together, we start fighting
10:40
and start criticizing each other.
10:42
But I, I think what the Iranian people are trying to say,
10:46
because people get very disturbed because why lots of
10:47
Iranians, we stand with Israel and they've got lots of Israeli
10:50
flags in their things. A lot, a lot of people like pro
10:53
Palestine friends of Iranians saying, look, I can't really be
10:56
supporting this if it's in any way supporting Zionism or, or
11:00
Israel. So we can't conflate the two.
11:03
You know, people are getting killed in Iran, the Palestinians
11:07
are being killed in Gaza. What Rezapallaby was was doing
11:09
by meeting the, the, the, the Israeli people, I think he's
11:13
trying to reflect Iranian society who say Israel, we have
11:17
no, as the people, we have no problem with Israelis.
11:21
I think that's the very, there's always a difference between the
11:24
people and their governments. So what the people of Iran are
11:27
saying, we have no problem with Israelis and Israelis also have
11:31
no problem with the with the normal Iranian side.
11:33
So then you've got Donald J Trump.
11:36
We should talk about. We should talk about Donald,
11:38
right? Donald Trump, the president of
11:40
the United States, who is, you know, who's sending out some
11:43
conflicting messages here. So on one side, he says we're
11:47
going to intervene. It's going to be tough.
11:49
We're going to pay them. You know, they're going to pay a
11:51
heavy price, The regime that is for, you know, using any
11:53
violence against peaceful protesters on the streets.
11:56
Which they did repeatedly and still didn't do anything.
11:58
Right, exactly. So you've got that red line
12:00
which seems to have, you know, been crossed and he's done
12:02
nothing about it. And then you've got him
12:03
threatening just last night, 25% sanctions against any country
12:07
that does business with Iran, which would be, for instance,
12:10
China and quite a few European countries as well.
12:13
So, yeah, as someone who really wants to see change this time
12:16
around, Omid, what would you like Donald Trump to do and not
12:20
to do? The former security minister Tom
12:23
Tugenhat was on Andrew Marr and they were talking about this,
12:25
where is Trump going to do anything?
12:27
And Tom Tugenhat said he's already done something.
12:30
He's he's got rid of Maduro and so Trump by cutting off Iran
12:35
from Venezuela because they're very deeply connected.
12:37
And I think there was an idea that if the regime fell, a lot
12:41
of the regime members would flee to Venezuela, where they set up
12:44
supermarkets, they've set up all their car manufacturers and
12:47
drone factories and missile factories.
12:49
By cutting that off, that's also isolated the regime.
12:52
So in one sense, even though it's a bit crazy what he's done,
12:57
as far as the people of Iran are concerned, well done.
12:59
Right. I mean, Iran is not in the same
13:03
position it was in even a year ago because we've had the 12 day
13:06
war. We had the systematic
13:09
destruction by Israel of Iran's proxies in the region.
13:13
Severely weakened, right? Severely weakened.
13:14
I mean, not total destruction, but severely weakened.
13:17
Hezbollah's another one, the Assad regime has fallen.
13:19
That was a massive ally, very important ally of the of the
13:22
ayatollahs. So Iran is in a much weaker
13:24
position than it has been perhaps at any stage since 1979,
13:29
since the revolution, do you think?
13:33
But that makes it more brutal because this is it for them,
13:36
right? This is the last chance saloon
13:38
for this regime to survive. Or does it mean they're more
13:42
likely to fold at some stage? This is a very good question and
13:46
it's the the answer's going to be a little bit complex, but
13:48
I'll I'll give it a shot. You know, the in a final death
13:51
pangs of a regime, they're at their most dangerous.
13:55
And there is a kind of what you would call a scorched earth
13:58
policy where the mullahs are saying if we go and the people
14:02
of Iran would be left with a barren wasteland and we're going
14:04
to kill as many of you. As you think that's something
14:06
right? Now that that's actually
14:07
happening right now in the city of Rasht where they were trying
14:09
to get the people to open up their shops, so begging them.
14:12
And then when they didn't open up, they fire bombed all the
14:14
shop, 200 shops. And they said this is what
14:17
protesters do to you. So they're they're spinning that
14:20
at the same time as they're weakened.
14:23
We do have an amazing opportunity here.
14:26
The people of Iran were asked 10,000 of them, what do you
14:29
actually want? 10,000 people.
14:30
And this human rights organization distilled it down
14:33
to two specific requests. One, leave us alone politically.
14:39
When this regime is gone, we'll deal with us.
14:40
What we're going to do politically and #2 what would
14:43
really help us is if you put the Islamic Republican Guard Corps,
14:47
the IRGC, put them on the terrorist list because there is
14:50
a domino effect here. And, and it's a big the, the
14:53
British government has not done it.
14:55
And there's many reasons for it because maybe you want to keep
14:57
the British Embassy open. That brings Intel.
14:59
And I think the Americans may have asked the Brits to keep it
15:01
open. And that's fair enough.
15:03
We get it because. America has no diplomatic
15:05
representation. Not hasn't that because they've
15:06
put the the. Embassy was seized and you know,
15:09
you know, and diplomats take it hostage.
15:11
The IGC is on the terrorist desk in America.
15:12
So, so we're now in a situation where if the following
15:16
diplomatic movements happen, you will see this regime go pretty
15:21
quickly and as from the request of the reigns #1 for their
15:26
safety, get the British people, the British Embassy in Tehran,
15:30
flown back immediately. Get them out.
15:33
Two, close down the embassy and three, freeze the assets and
15:38
then then put the IRGC on the terrorist.
15:40
Because if you do this, which is very important, the regime gets
15:44
isolated. There's no more money coming
15:46
through. All the people who are in, who
15:47
work with them, India, China will have to distance themselves
15:51
and the regime will be but. I'm not sure if that's right
15:53
there because they're already to some extent isolated.
15:55
There are already many sanctions in place and and they have their
15:59
friends in Beijing, they have their friends in Moscow, they
16:02
have their friends in Pyongyang and that you know that axis of
16:06
resistance as they like to call it, it kind of works for them
16:09
it. Kind of works but you see as
16:11
British people who we believe in human rights, we believe in
16:15
standing up for the oppressed and if we don't take these
16:18
actions a lot of British people ask me, well, what do we what do
16:21
we now this is very. Important about our conscience
16:23
or no? No, no, actually changing the
16:25
reality. It is about changing the
16:26
reality, but it's also about our conscience because people are
16:28
asking this question. British friends of mine are
16:31
saying by not putting the IRGC on the terrorists, it means
16:34
we're somehow involved with this regime.
16:36
Do we really want to be in business with these people
16:39
they've just killed? Reportedly, we don't know for
16:43
sure. They've just killed 12,000
16:44
protesters. Now we come from a generation
16:46
where we saw Tiananmen Square, we saw the Berlin Wall come
16:49
down, we saw these things happen with our own eyes unfold before
16:52
us. 12,000 is if that is true, that's a massive this is the one
16:57
of the most amazing stories ever.
16:59
But if the Brits don't take any action, and they've been silent
17:03
so far, British people are going to say are we?
17:06
Complicit. But we know that especially
17:08
British involvement with in Iran is an incredibly sensitive
17:12
subject because the Brits were involved back in the 1950s with
17:15
the removal of Mossadegh, A democratically elected Iranian
17:19
Prime Minister. You know stuff.
17:21
Right, No, but I think, you know that is so.
17:24
If we suddenly say things, this government says things and
17:26
stands up there, there will be no.
17:28
Finish what you were saying? No, but what You got rid of him
17:30
because he had got rid of them. Yeah, this is very important
17:33
that people know. All those petroleum companies
17:35
came in because you've got oil here.
17:37
We can drill it for you because what are you going to give us?
17:39
We'll give you a percentage, probably 30-40, maybe 50%.
17:42
He was. They were there for a while and
17:43
they never gave a single penny. So Mossad there got rid of them.
17:46
And then for 60,000 it's all covered in a film called Coup 53
17:51
directed by Walter Murch, who did all the Godfather movies.
17:55
They, they never gave them pennies.
17:56
So Mossad they got rid of them. And then to fire back they, they
17:59
spent £60,000 and created a revolution to get rid of Mossad
18:02
there. And then they brought the
18:03
monarchy back. OK, So what I'm trying to say is
18:06
that any kind of foreign meddling in Iran, you know,
18:10
especially from the Brits and the Americans, is seen with deep
18:13
suspicion by the people. Yes.
18:15
Understandably. But here's the thing.
18:18
Obama has now very clearly said that when there was a green
18:21
movement, when NEDA was shot in the head, the green revolution,
18:24
the green revolution, that was unbelievable.
18:25
And we really thought that was it.
18:27
Obama had a chance to do something and he never did.
18:29
Instead, he signed the JCOJOCAP deal.
18:34
The. Iran nuclear deal.
18:35
The Iran nuclear. Enrichment for fewer sanctions.
18:37
Yes, exactly. And apparently billions of
18:40
dollars were passed to America. And he's now said, I regret that
18:43
that was a real chance to get rid of him.
18:45
Now we're in a situation going back to Donald Trump.
18:48
We're in a situation where he can intervene somehow.
18:50
We don't know how, but the people on the ground believe
18:54
this would be America righting the wrongs of the past.
18:58
And, and that is one way, if Donald Trump wants to become a
19:01
hero overnight and possibly even get a Peace Prize in 2026, if he
19:06
was to wrong to right the wrongs historically of all that
19:09
meddling. And by the way, all that
19:11
meddling is why we saw Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, that all
19:15
that kind of stuff is, is the stuff that is given that makes
19:18
people worry about Iran right now that he could actually right
19:22
a lot of those wrongs. So if the Americans were to
19:28
launch military strikes, right, against Khamenei or against the
19:32
Revolutionary Guard installations or whatever, what
19:35
makes you think that that would actually work?
19:39
That would first. Of all I never said that.
19:40
I never said that. What makes?
19:42
Well, I mean, but you but you that.
19:43
Makes Iranians think that. That makes Iranians think that
19:45
because it would if they were during the 12 day war with
19:49
Israel, which is very weird. I was very upset, you know, to
19:52
see, I mean, quite a few 100 people died and you don't want
19:56
to see war. You don't want to see but a lot
19:57
of Iranians inside Iran. Were cheering them on.
20:00
They kept taking out the heads of the IRGC.
20:03
The next person to cover, they took him out.
20:06
They killed so many. I even got an e-mail declaring
20:08
me the head of the IRGC and I respectfully turned it down
20:11
because I wasn't quite happy with their workplace security
20:13
arrangements. So that was a little joke I've
20:16
been doing, but people in Iran were kind of cheering that on
20:20
because we know all the oppression comes from the IGC.
20:23
Thousands, 100 thousands of people have died in Syria,
20:25
100,000 people died in Iran because the IGC.
20:28
So when you're killing those people, I'm speaking for the
20:31
people of Iran. There's not, I'm not just saying
20:33
there's not me, but I'm saying they were kind of cheering it
20:36
on. So I'm not saying I'm never
20:39
would stand up for war, But if there is some kind of military
20:42
action, which would, I would say, neutralize the threat of
20:46
the people who are actually killing the people on the ground
20:49
right now, young people, young girls, teenagers, if that was to
20:53
be stopped somehow, I would think the people of Iran would
20:56
be. They wouldn't say no.
20:57
And just on the numbers, I mean, again, the numbers are sketchy
21:00
because we're not on the ground. I think human rights groups are
21:03
saying 2000 roughly have been killed by the authorities in in
21:08
recent weeks. The numbers of arrest I think is
21:11
at about 11,000 or more. But again, we don't know the
21:13
exact numbers. Yeah, that is a significant
21:15
number of people to mow down in order to stay in power.
21:19
Whether it's 12,000 or 2000 even even.
21:22
But two or three numbers do not, I mean, let's, you know, we
21:24
don't need to exaggerate the numbers because they're bad
21:26
enough as it is, right? So.
21:27
We agree on that, absolutely. OK.
21:28
By the way, they're starting the executions on January the 14th.
21:32
I mean, one of the problems, I guess, with any revolution, one
21:36
of the challenges is that you do need a unifying figure.
21:40
So the Iranian revolution of 7879 had Ayatollah Khomeini
21:44
Khomeini, who was based in Paris at the time, as the unifying
21:47
figure. They used the network of the
21:48
mosques, you know, and of course, the Islamic faith in
21:51
order to organize the revolution which worked for them.
21:55
What is the unifying figure genuinely now and what is the
21:58
unifying structure around which people can organize, you know,
22:02
some kind of, you know, successful revolution against
22:05
this regime? It's very clear that an
22:07
opposition leader is is emerging.
22:10
It's Reza Palavi, who's the son of the Shah, and he's someone
22:14
who's been directing things from outside the country now.
22:18
He's he directing them? He is he just jumping on the
22:20
bandwagon? No, he is absolutely directing
22:24
people what to do to do. He's been speaking through
22:27
Tanois in cities and saying, go on to Iran International.
22:30
There's a live broadcast, scan your QR codes and join the
22:34
people. And it's like saying, you know,
22:36
the revolution will be televised with QR codes.
22:39
So he, he is, he's directed. Does he want a resurrection of
22:42
the monarchy? Does he want to sit on a new
22:44
throne? He said he wants to come back
22:46
and transition the country to a secular democracy.
22:49
Do. You believe him?
22:52
Personally, I have to say he's an educated man.
22:56
I I can't imagine that he would want to live in Iran.
22:59
I can't imagine that he would stay longer than a year, 2
23:02
years. But if they're if the people,
23:04
because when they're on the ballot get used to it, he might
23:07
get used to it. And on the ballot paper, if
23:08
people do want to monarchy, they will have to put that down like
23:12
a constitutional monarchy that runs longer, a secular
23:15
government. Do I believe it like here?
23:17
Yeah, exactly. Do I believe him?
23:21
I I don't know. I've never met him.
23:24
I like the look of him. I like the cut of his jib.
23:26
I like everything. He seems very reasonable.
23:28
Everything he says is very educated.
23:30
He speaks Persian, French and English absolutely fluently.
23:34
And whatever he represents, it's a damn sight better than these
23:38
people, these regime people with their nonsense.
23:41
But they're kind of fundamental. So it's basically people have a
23:43
choice. Do you want fundamentalist or do
23:45
you want someone who's educated? That seems to be.
23:48
The choice but but the but the regime will say do you want us
23:52
or do you want to go back to the thing that we removed with
23:55
another revolution? Yeah.
23:56
And I think right now you can hear I, I've gone through maybe
24:00
1200 videos, I would say with hand on heart confidence, about
24:06
6 or 700 of those videos of the protesters are all calling for
24:10
his name and they're actually calling for a monarchy back
24:12
which. I'm watching a lot of TV.
24:14
I don't. I'm not sleeping.
24:15
I haven't had sleep. Yeah, I've not slept for maybe
24:17
the last two weeks. I've probably had about 12 hours
24:19
sleep. I care not just as an Iranian,
24:22
as a human being who's into human rights, this is the most
24:25
incredible story unfolding before our very eyes.
24:27
And if you really want to be with the people and human
24:29
rights, watch what these people are doing.
24:31
Because against all odds, I've seen videos of, you know,
24:35
security forces with guns shooting at young guys who were
24:38
still running forward dropping. But I just think, my God, look
24:41
at the Kishka's on these guys. They won't stop.
24:44
And that is why it's the most incredible story unfolding on
24:47
the planet right now. I mean, as we know with some
24:49
revolutions, when they take place, if they overthrow the
24:53
existing people in power, what, what sometimes follows is civil
24:57
war, chaos, the complete, you know, disintegration of the
25:00
country. We saw that in Libya, for
25:01
instance. Libya is in the, you know, was
25:03
in a very, very bad state after the the removal of Colonel
25:07
Gaddafi and his death. Is that something that you are
25:11
prepared as a British Iranian to put up with if it if that's the
25:16
cost of getting rid of the IT dollars?
25:19
I will say this, that is a legitimate fear.
25:22
And if anyone thinks that or expresses that, that's
25:25
absolutely fine. What we, what we won't tolerate
25:28
is people saying this is all Israeli LED and American LED.
25:30
We don't tolerate that. But that is a legitimate fear.
25:32
But as we said before, Iranians have the agency.
25:36
And you said to yourself, they're some of the most
25:37
educated people. So I think I would like to think
25:40
they're learning from history. But it is an it's a real worry,
25:43
which is why even if this regime is overthrown, I'll still be
25:46
watching to see what's going on because I'm nervous.
25:48
I'm worried you don't know if the country will descend into
25:52
chaos. You just don't know.
25:53
If in three weeks time or a month's time the protests have
25:57
died down, it may happen. I'm not saying it will happen,
25:59
but it might happen. Are you still going to be
26:01
watching every night? You're still going to be, you
26:03
know, engaged with the same degree of interest that you are
26:06
now. I will I will keep yes, if if
26:11
this drags, I'm going to I'm in it for the long haul.
26:14
Basically whether even Tom Tugan hat the the Minister for
26:18
Security. In the previous government of.
26:21
The previous, yeah, even Tom Tugan hat though Minister for
26:24
Security of the previous government, he said, look, the
26:26
regime are gone. Whether it's announced in the
26:29
next few days, next week, we wait until Norouz, which is
26:33
March 21st or maybe at the end of the year, it's going to
26:36
happen. So I'm in it for the long haul.
26:39
And it's it's just something I have to, I'm resigned to this.
26:42
It's something I can't stop watching.
26:44
And then if this regime goes, which we believe is an
26:46
inevitability, I'll be keeping an eye and doing what I can to
26:51
help raise awareness and hopefully they will have some
26:53
kind of democracy. It's hard to see how any regime
26:56
that governs by coercion more than by consent.
27:00
And of course there are some people in Iran who still believe
27:02
in the regime because their jobs depend on it.
27:04
Whatever. It's hard to see if you're just
27:06
governing mainly by coercion, that you can string this out.
27:09
It's impossible. And and and you.
27:10
Know but it but it could be months, it could be weeks, it
27:13
could even be years. And in that time, an awful lot
27:15
of stuff could happen. I will say this, which I think
27:17
is very, very important. Yes, there are a lot of people
27:20
who are ruled by coercion, which is why I've been asked.
27:23
I mean, as a member of the Baha'i Faith, we've had a lot of
27:26
persecution. From the you know about.
27:28
This. Yeah, from the mullahs and all
27:29
this. But I will say this to the
27:31
people of Iran because they're talking about killing mullahs,
27:34
the two, about stringing them up from lamp posts.
27:37
I honestly believe a lot of those mullahs have to keep quiet
27:41
and toe the party line. A lot of them don't believe in
27:45
this nonsense. A lot of them could be great
27:48
people. So I would ask the people of
27:50
Iran don't go around killing and burning mullahs because a lot of
27:53
them are probably and we've seen some mullahs come out.
27:56
They were saying down with this regime.
27:57
This is this is not Islam. And I think it's we've.
27:59
Also seen protesters burn mosques.
28:01
We see, yeah. But this is very important for
28:03
people to know. The people of Iran have no
28:05
problem with Islam. We have a problem with
28:07
fanaticism and fundamentalism. And all my Muslim friends have
28:11
said this is not Islam. They're actually giving a
28:13
terrible name to religion. So I'd like to say to the people
28:16
of Iran, don't go around randomly.
28:19
I think a lot of the mullahs need to be brought to account
28:22
but don't kill them because a lot of them have been paying lip
28:25
service because if they don't support this regime, they'll be
28:28
killed by the regime. One more, I mean, President
28:30
Trump has threatened to intervene and he might be the
28:33
kind of, you know, the intervention that the people
28:36
like you, lots of Iranians are yearning for.
28:40
At the same time, President Trump is also on the record with
28:43
his actions and his words for tearing up, you know, human
28:47
rights agreements. You know, he's just pulled the
28:49
US out of 66 bodies, you know, many of them to do with the UN,
28:52
many of them to do with human rights.
28:55
Are you confident that that he's doing this, you know, for the
28:59
sake of the Iranian people? Of course not.
29:01
Of course not. At the end of the day, who knows
29:05
what's going on? What are the machinations going
29:06
on? Maybe there's a deal going on
29:08
right now, like, OK, Pallavi, you're going to come in.
29:11
What's in it for us? Maybe that's going on.
29:12
Nobody knows you. You can't say hand on heart.
29:15
Because last time I checked, Iran has a lot of the stuff that
29:18
Trump really likes. Oil.
29:20
Oil. Yes, exactly like.
29:21
Venezuela. Lots of oil, yeah.
29:22
No question he is a deal maker. And I think what what Iran, Iran
29:26
is a pragmatist realist. We are hoping that if if there
29:29
is a deal going on, it'll, it'll end up being for the people of
29:32
Iran because at the moment they seem to be expendable.
29:36
The people of Iran, like we can talk about Gaza and speak out
29:39
for them, but no one really cares about the people of Iran
29:41
they're getting. I think they do.
29:44
I think. I think.
29:45
I like to think people do, you know, but, but with with regards
29:48
to your question, does Trump actually believe in the human
29:50
rights of the Iranian people? I would say I don't know, I
29:54
can't. He says he does.
29:55
He says he does. But but we kind of understand if
29:58
a deal is in place somehow, vaccinations behind the scenes,
30:01
that happens. Hopefully it'll be for the
30:03
people of Iran and not against them.
30:05
Omid Jalili, we'll leave it there.
30:06
Thank you very much indeed for coming on the forecast.
30:08
Thank you very much. That's it for the forecast.
30:10
I hope you enjoyed it. See you next time.