Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / The Real Michael Lohan: He's More Than Just Lindsay Lohan's Father

Transcript

The Real Michael Lohan: He's More Than Just Lindsay Lohan's Father · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I remember being in a small town in Italy, struggling
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: to order coffee. I just couldn't get my point across
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: and it felt like I was missing out on really
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: connecting with the place. It's exactly why Babbel is a
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: game changer. It focuses on practical language skills, things you'd
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: actually say in real life situations, not just textbook phrases.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Imagine chatting easily at a cafe in Rome or asking
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: directions in Tokyo. With Babbel, this can happen in just
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: three weeks if you practice daily for only 10 minutes.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: It's designed by language experts, ensuring you learn conversational skills
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: that natives really use. Plus, you can fit lessons into
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: any part of your day, making it super convenient. So
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: if you've ever wanted to dive back into a language
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: or learn a new one, now is your chance. Visit babbel.com
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: slash pod to save up to 60% off your subscription.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: That's B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash P-O-D. Start your journey to
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Hi, Michael. So
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: today I'm sitting with Michael Lohan. Thank you for joining me.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Rachel.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: How are you? I'm good. You've come all the way
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: to Florida to see me in person. But, you know,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: we've been friends for like, what, 14 years now?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a long time.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So I'm so honored that you did. You came to
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: see me and my dogs. And so it's been really
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: fun hanging out with you and your two amazing sons
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: who I love and I've known since they were babies.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Well, how could I resist? I mean, you're doing so
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: well with the podcast and we've gotten so many great
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: people together. I mean, you've done a really, I'm really
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: impressed with what you've done.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. So I was trying to go
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: back to when we actually first met and it was
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: about 14 years ago.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: What's your recollection of how we first met?
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, we met through David Weintraub. You were going to
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: do a TV show and he had put me in
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: touch with you and one thing led to another and
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: you end up doing the show. There were some negotiations that,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: you know, didn't go your way, but we fixed this.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: We fixed those. Right. And then we wound up, he
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: represented Too Short, that rapper guy. And the two of
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: you came out to my place in the Hamptons. Right. Yeah.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Well, so we became friends through that whole thing. But
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: you really helped me. I was actually going to be
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: on Celebrity Apprentice.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: And then Celebrity Rehab called and asked me to be
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: on it, which I was like, I don't have an addiction.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I don't even want to go on this.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: But after we negotiated $ 400, 000 for the season, which at
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: the time was like the most anyone had been paid.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I remember that all too well.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: They didn't want to pay it, but you got it.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: So it was quite incredible. And it was an amazing experience,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: which you know because you did the season after.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Well, the funny part, though, is that for someone who
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: really didn't have a drug or alcohol addiction, you were
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: there for love addiction. Yeah. And I wasn't there for
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: drug or alcohol addiction either when I did the show.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I was there for relationship addiction or codependency. Right. So
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: it was kind of funny that we were chosen to
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: be on an addiction show when we didn't have the
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: kind of addictions the other people had on the show.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Right, which at first I was really hesitant about, but
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: as I got into it, I mean, I remember saying,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: and they filmed it, but saying to Dr. Drew, this
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: seems so ridiculous. People are here detoxing on heroin. They're
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: having a really difficult time. I don't even feel like
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I'm a celebrity. How am I even on this? And
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: for me to go in there when they're really dealing
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: with addictions and I'm here to deal with drugs love addiction,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: which I don't even believe is a real thing. I
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: feel like I should leave.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: And he was like, nope, just stay. And I will
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: say after the three weeks of filming, it was some
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: of the most intense sort of therapy I had ever done.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: And then I ended up going on tour with him
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: about love addiction. And to this day, I still, you know,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: it's something that I follow up on. It's something that
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I help people with. It's something that I truly believe
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: is an addiction.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Paying it forward. But see, that's the funny part, because
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: even this show that show is kind of misunderstood too
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: because people don't understand I mean the message and the
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: narrative that or what people get out of our life
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: experience is so important and it doesn't have to be
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: a drug or alcohol or any other kind of addiction
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I mean I think gambling addiction is something that's very relative,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: but for someone with codependency and even love addiction issues,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: it's a lot of people have them, but they don't
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: discuss them. Right. And they're very serious.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they don't think it's real either. And so
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: what's interesting is codependency is something that most people suffer from.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of people have hard times, and
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: it also leads to other addictions. Same thing with love addiction.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: When people are suffering with bad relationships or having an
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: issue with replacing.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Intimacy for real love and and they they um you
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: know get involved in things that are really toxic because
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: they think that to them is love um that becomes
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: a problem and it starts off a whole you know
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: spiral of patterns that go into real addictions not real
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: but you know more tangible addictions which are like the
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: alcohol and the sex and.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: The drugs you know from relationships when they go sour
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: they don't work out a lot of people do resort
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: to drugs or alcohol yeah So they are, you know,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: they're directly connected.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Right. So later on in your life, you ended up
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: getting into, you know, that path and helping in the
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: treatment centers. But we'll get to that in a little bit.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: There's a long path before that. Yeah.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: So the first question I wanted to start with you
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: is how do you think you are best known by
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: most people?
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, it's Lindsay Lohan's dad. Okay.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: And why do you say unfortunately?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately. Because I'm not just Lindsay's dad, I'm Allie, Cody, Michael, Landon, Logan,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm their dad too.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Right, right. So just give me a brief, like how
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: old is your oldest? How old is your youngest? Explain
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the whole gamut.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Lindsay's 36, Michael's 35, Allie's 28, Cody's 27. And then, well,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: he'll be 27 in two days. And then you have
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Landon who's 10 and Logan that's eight. Right.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: And do you want to get into the... The last
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: child or the child? The other child.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: The claim, the other child?
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess there was a period in time when
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Dina and I were separated and there was someone I
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: knew from way back when I started working on Wall
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Street in like 1982, 1983. And she had, I got
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: a phone call. I was living on Long Island and
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: she said, Michael, I'm not in Texas anymore. I'm on
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Long Island. And I'm in a marriage that's really, really bad,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: and I have to get out of here. Can you
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: help me? And I said, sure, I'll do whatever I can.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: And I did, and we wound up spending two occasions together.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: And 15 years later, I got notified from her and
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: the court that she said that I had a child.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: And at that time, we'll get to it later on,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: but I was unable to go to court in Montana
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: because she had moved from Atlanta Long Island to Texas
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: to Arizona to Montana, and I was unable to go
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: to the court hearing. I was served on a Sunday
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: at my father's funeral, which is illegal, but they had
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: the hearing anyway with no DNA test or anything, and
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: in my absentia, they ordered that I was a father
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: and ordered me to pay child support.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: And not only that, in arrears for 15 years.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I did pay from the time she was 15
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: to 18, but they held me also... that I had
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: to pay from the time she was born until she
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: was 15 years old. Wow. So I've been paying all
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: the arrears ever since as well.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Even though there's been no paternity test.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: No legitimate paternity test. And I wasn't even at the hearing.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: And even so, even if the child was my child,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: why should I have to pay from the time I
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: didn't even know she was my child or before? Yeah.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: So just to clarify, she waited 15 years.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: She was married to someone else at that time.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Which probably was the reason she didn't.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: It's unheard of. And, you know, if you really look
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: at it, Law is law. And if you served improperly
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: on a Sunday when that service isn't legal, they shouldn't
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: have held me in contempt and they shouldn't have, you know,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: ordered that judgment in my absentia. So, you know. Right.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: But devil's advocate and which is a nice, I mean,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: an upstanding thing that you've done. You've paid all the
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: back child support and you continue to pay child support.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: So have you seen this child ever?
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. A couple of times. Yeah.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: And you said she looks like you.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Well, there's similarities, definitely, without a doubt.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: But either way, you have no problem with it, I mean,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: at this point.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, so all in all, that is four, five, six,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: seven children.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have one, and it's a lot.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Yes. Joke. No, we don't have a child together.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just kidding. Okay, so because most people know Lindsay,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: let's just talk about her for a second. And she's
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: your first child?
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: How did she get into acting? Is acting something she
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: wanted to do when she was little?
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Well, when you're three years old, do you want to
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: be an actress? No.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer. The drawer.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: Just the one square before bed. Or two, you know.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: Nobody's watching. You deserve a treat.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: With eight flavors to choose from, you can choose the
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: flavor you favor with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, she was a redhead with freckles, adorable, very
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: great personality. And her mom said, you know, Dina always
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: aspired to be an actress. When I was a kid,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I worked with her. in the industry my brother did
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: too i was on some soap operas and did commercials
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: so i said to dina yeah go ahead take her
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: in so we signed her up with a company called
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: chickies kids on long island and one thing led to
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: another she did a lot of ads and she did
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: some commercials then ford signed.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Her was she shy or she was a natural natural Natural.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, she is just, she's born, she's just in
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: so many different ways, singing and acting and painting. She's
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: designing clothing. I mean, everything she touches, she does really,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: really well. Right, right.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: So what was her first big break that you started
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: to realize? The Parent Trap. Oh, that was her first
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: big break?
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah. Before that, she was on a soap opera
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: called Another World, and she played a character named Allie Fowler.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And at that time, she was going to be re-signed
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: for a second season. She was nominated for an Emmy
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: when she was nine years old, but then the audition
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: for the parent trap came up and Dina and I
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: just had, we just had Cody and unfortunately he had
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: an ear infection, so she couldn't bring Lindsay to the
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: audition in California. So I brought her out there and
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: she got the role.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: And for people that are not familiar with that movie,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: explain her role in that movie.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Well, she was, uh, She played twins, and she pulled
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: it off seamlessly.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Which seems like it would be an incredibly hard role
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: to play because you're playing two different characters.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she had to switch in and out of personalities,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: in and out of character, well, from one character to
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the other with accents, and it was just amazing how
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: she did that.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was just in awe.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: And to this day, if you turn on the television
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: at any given point, I feel like you can see
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: that movie again. If not that, Mean Girls or, you know,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: any of the movies that.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Freaky Friday.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Exactly. She's been in so many classics, which really is
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: a testament to how, you know.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Talented she is.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: She worked with Gary Marshall, one of the icon producers
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: and directors in Hollywood. The guy was amazing. She.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: And so how much of your.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Jane Fonda. I mean, to work with Jane Fonda and
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Felicity Huffman and Georgia Rule, I mean, that was amazing.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: One of her better movies, too.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: So what was your role as her father at that point?
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Did you become a manager at all?
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Daddy. I was always daddy. Still am daddy.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: So Dina took on the role.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't want to be... I didn't want to
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: cross that line. You know, you have the Macaulay Culcombs
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: of the world, and now you have the Britney Spears
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: and their parents getting involved. Yeah. I worked on Wall Street.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I came from a good family. I didn't want to
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: have any active role or for anyone to say that
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I made money off my kid, which I'd never done
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: and never gotten a penny from Lindsay. Her mom was
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: her manager and she got 20%. And I think that
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: was part of the reason why we got divorced.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Because Dina felt like, you know, I was always a breadwinner.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And then when Dina had her own money, there was
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of strife between myself and Dina's brothers and
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: her family. because Dina's brothers got involved in the business.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: They were running a fan club and the clothing and
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: doing stuff around the house. And I felt that professionals
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: should do that. And although it is good to have
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: family around you because you can trust your family, sometimes
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: you create some strife in a family that's just, you know,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: you can't repair it.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we were talking about this earlier. I mean,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: there have been some cases where it works really well,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: like in the case of the Kardashians. and they have
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: their mom as a manager. But then you look at
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: someone like Jewel, who just came out in her book
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: as talking about the fact that her mother was her
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: manager and stole almost $ 100 million from her. So you
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: almost think that you can trust that person, but sometimes
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: you really can't.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think in that regard, Dina wasn't the
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: kind of person to steal Lindsay's money or anything. She
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: did make some bad decisions and turn it over to
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: a guy named Mark Lansman, who was a money manager
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: and Just money started just flying out and disappearing and,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: you know, just I had no control over it. Yeah.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Well, it is hard to have that role, I would assume,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: because you're playing the role of the mom, but also
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the manager, but also, you know, there's a little bit
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: of an interesting, you know, incentive for you because you
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: are getting 20% and she is doing so well and
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: having such big roles that the 20% actually matters, you know?
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: But it's funny you mentioned the Kardashians, too, because before
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: they even had this show... We were offered to do,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: our family was offered to do a show. We would
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: have been the first Kardashian show. Wow. And that's when
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Dina and I were going through the divorce and Dina
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: didn't want to do a show with me on it.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: So she did a takeoff of it, which was my ideal,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: called Living Lohan. And I don't think that was picked
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: up for a second season, but yeah.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And what happened? And I don't think I saw that.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: What was that? It was just about Dina and.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: A reality TV show with Dina and the kids.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Dina and the kids.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And were you featured on it at all?
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: No. No.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Because she didn't want you to or you didn't want to?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Because she didn't want me to and it wasn't really
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: brought up to me.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Got it. Okay.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So let's, so Lindsay has been living in Dubai, right?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: She's now engaged or married?
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Rachel.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm asking you.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: She's married. Okay. Okay.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: And you like this guy.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: You think she's having a child out of wedlock? Do
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: you think I stand for that?
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: No, I don't.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: No.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: So do you love this guy? Is he great?
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: He's a great guy.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: And they met in Dubai?
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do love him. Okay. Yeah. And his family,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: for that matter.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And is it hard to see them because they live
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: so far away?
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Rachel, she lives in Dubai. Yes, it's hard to see her.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: So do you see them often?
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: No. Whenever they can get here, yeah. It's going to
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: be a little while now because she's having the baby.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about when she's due or what she's having?
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: No.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: But I assume you're really excited.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. Sworn to secrecy.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Will she have the baby there?
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I can tell you in the closet, but if you
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: tell anyone, I'll have to kill you.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I know. So we'll talk about it after. But is
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: she going to have the baby there?
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. Absolutely.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: All right. So we're very excited for her, obviously. So
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about your breakup with Dina.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Because I think people would like to know what happened there.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Because for so long, you guys were seen as, you know,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: this kind of Hollywood.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Listen, we were dancing in the kitchen with our kids
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: right up until a week before we broke up.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. My son, Cody, was having a communion party at
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: my house. And I caught Dina's brother doing drugs. And
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: we got in a fight. And I beat the crap
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: out of him. And we ended up getting divorced over it.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Because her family... It was a serious fight.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: And how has it been.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: See, that was misunderstood, too, because they said I hit
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: him with a shoe. I didn't hit him with a shoe.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: There was blood on my shoe, so they thought I
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: hit him with a shoe. I came out of my car.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: He came out of his car. When he went to
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: hit me, I slipped. I came out of my shoe,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: and I hit him. He got cut, bled all over
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: the car and the shoe, and they said I hit
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: him with a shoe.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: So here's where I think a lot of people wonder
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: what happened. So you were a parent of a child star,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and then kind of out of nowhere you became... you know,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: maybe not as famous, but famous in your own right.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Infamous.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: You can say it.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Infamous. But as Michael Lohan.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: The bad guy.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't just Michael Lohan, comma, Lindsay's father.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: No, because people, honestly, and one of the reasons why
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: I wanted to do this show, and I love your title,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: is because I'm really misunderstood. People don't know my background.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: They don't know how I was brought up, that I
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: was brought up by a wonderful family. I was a
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: co-partner in the first electronic cigarette company I developed. Arizona
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: iced teas, only a snack food line. I put the
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Brooklyn Navy Yard movie studio deal together. I mean, I've
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: done one thing after another. I'm a businessman, and I
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: do a lot to help people. I do a lot
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: of charity work, including what led me to work in
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the addiction community.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But at some point, there were some issues that
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: led to a lot of things happening elsewhere. With a
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: little bit of violence, like you were talking about beating
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: up the brother, or some DUIs that you got into
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: that got you arrested, and.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: No, not some. One. Okay. Only one. Okay. And that's
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: pretty screwed up, too, because I've never had one in
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: my life, and my first....
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: The drawer. Just the one square before bed. Or two,
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: you know. Nobody's watching. You deserve a treat.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: With eight flavors to choose from, you can choose the
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: flavor you favor with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: It was DUI, and they gave me one and a
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: third to four years in prison. Wow. Yeah, and I
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: had to appeal it, and it took 21 months to
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: even have it heard. And when it was heard and
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I won, I got out. But they got 21 months
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: out of me for one year. D-U-I. No one got hurt.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: It was me hitting a telephone pole. Actually, my heart stopping.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: They had to resuscitate me and coming to an epiphany
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: in my life. And that's what turned the course of
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: my life.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Right. And you no longer drink.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: You don't.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: No. I hadn't drank in a number of years before
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: the accident. But something horrible had happened. And I was
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: called on the phone by somebody. And it involved Lindsay.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: And I had a few drinks in contemplation of what
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: was going on. And I started racing to the airport
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: and doing overnight miles an hour. I hit a telephone
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: pole and I died.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: So, and we were talking about this earlier. I think
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: it's really important for people to understand, especially people that
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: are going through recovery or struggling with addiction, that a
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: couple thoughts on that actually. So you don't consider yourself
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: an alcoholic or yeah, or an addict in that way
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: at all, but you have chosen to stop drinking because
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: you're just a better person.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: False narrative. As soon as you admit that you drank
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: or did drugs or tried drugs in your life, right
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: away they make you into an addict. Right. No. No,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I was never an addict. I did what other kids do.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I never drank or did drugs through high school and college.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: When I went to Wall Street, everyone started drinking and
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: partying here and there. Yeah. And I did. And I
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: admitted it. And right away, as soon as they hear
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: that they want to paint this picture of you and
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: paint the false narrative. And that's the truth. No. Am
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I an addict or an alcoholic? Never was, never, never
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: will be. Right.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Um, but unfortunately you've surrounded yourself with a couple of
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: people who run into those similar patterns, right?
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: So you have too many. Yeah. So, and people very
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: close to home. Yeah. Yeah.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: So I think that's created part of the false narrative
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: because of the association, probably.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: You mean guilty by association? Yeah. Really?
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Do you think so?
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Well, if someone's an alcoholic and I hang out with them,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: it makes me an alcoholic?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: No, but I'm saying from what people read about in
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: the press.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, sure, yeah.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: They hear that maybe Dina has one or Kate, your
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: wife later, and they assume, you know, they tie your
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: name into it.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: We collect DUIs. Yeah. I have one, Dean has two,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Kate has three, you know, Lindsay has one, so.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: So they just assume it runs in the family or something.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what? Addiction does run in the family. But,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: you know, it's very selective. You know, addiction is funny.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: People can have the addiction gene, but unless there's a
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: traumatic moment or something that flips that switch on, it
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: doesn't become active. People can live within the addiction gene
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: all their life, but it won't become active. Some people do,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: some people don't. Why is it that if somebody has
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: a mother and father that are both addicts, And then
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: that person has three kids and only one is an
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: addict and the other aren't. How can you explain that
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: if they all have the gene? It becomes active with
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: one and not the others. Yeah.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: So you end up marrying another woman, Kate Lohan, after Dina.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And how'd you meet Kate? All sorts of things you
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: want to talk about.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: All right. So let's rewind this a little bit. Okay.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: February 19th, 2005 is when I got my DUI. I
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: did 21 months. When I got out, I went right
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: into teen. I worked for Teen Challenge. I went to
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Bible college, became a minister. I dedicated two and a
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: half years of my life to the ministry and helping
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: people with addiction problems. During that time, I met someone
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: named Aaron Muller. Aaron and I were dating each other
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: for a while. And Aaron was sober, stayed sober. And
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: during that time, Lindsay had been in Circlodge in Utah,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: and Lindsay wanted me to visit. So I told Lindsay
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I was going to bring Erin with me. Lindsay said, fine.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: We went out there. And when we were out there,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I guess InTouch Magazine, Bauer Publications were trailing our whole family.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: And there was a reporter named Kate Major that was
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: reporting on my family. Well, anyway, one thing led to another.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Kate became very friendly with Lindsay and me and Aaron
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: and everybody. She had a boyfriend. And then Kate had
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: come to New York to visit, and she actually left
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: her relationship and was dating John Gosselin.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I remember that.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: From John and Kate Plus Eight.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was interesting because she was a journalist at
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the time who then became the story because– when there
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: was Kate plus eight and John Gosling who were always
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: in the news, all of a sudden Kate was now
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: dating John Gosling. So I remember her from that.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they came out. They were being pursued in
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: New York City in his apartment, and she called up
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: and said to me, can we come out and stay
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: with you in the Hamptons? And I said, absolutely, sure,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: but no pictures, no nothing. We live a quiet life
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: out here. One thing led to another, and Kate and
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: John got into it. John Gosling got into it. He
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: told her to leave her job and come work for
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: him as a personal assistant. I said, we were friends.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I said, don't do that. Don't be stupid. You have
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: a great job. She did leave. He ditched her for
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: a girl named Hallie Glassman, who happens to be a
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: really great girl. Know her family really well. And Kate
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: started hanging out with Aaron and started drinking with Aaron.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: And Aaron relapsed and we broke up. And They, Aaron had,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Aaron and I had broken up and Kate went back
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to Chicago and something, I don't know, something was going
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: on out there. But anyway, I get a phone call from,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I forgot which network it was, but they said, Mr.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Lohan was subpoenaing you into court because John Gosselin violated
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: his agreement with the network. And then Kate called me
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: and said, did you get a subpoena? And I said, yeah.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I said, for John Gosselin? She said, I did too.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: She said, well, can I come and stay with you
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and keep the money from what they're giving me and
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: stay in the room with you? I said, yeah. Well,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: that was a mistake. One thing led to another. I
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: was with Kate, and there came my son, Landon.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Right. And how long ago was that?
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Ten years ago.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Ten years ago. And you ended up marrying her.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: And you have two sons.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, Landon and Logan.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Which are the best things that happened.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Out of that relationship? Amazing, amazing. Blessed, blessed children. Yep.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: So even though you've been raising these two amazing kids,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: you have run into some issues with Kate in a
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: toxic way because you guys probably made more news in
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: the last eight years, I would say, than some of
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: the news you were making with even Dina. And the
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: news wasn't great. Let's be honest.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Of course not.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: So what do you think happened there with such a
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: toxic relationship?
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I'm just the kind of person where I look at,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I can't stand drugs and alcohol. And unfortunately, Kate struggles
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: with that. And she, you know, I have custody of
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: my kids. I mean, it's kind of indicative that, you know,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: it's gone pretty sour for her.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: And she's still struggling, unfortunately. Yeah. And I wish her
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: the best, of course.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: And it may always be a struggle for her, unfortunately.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the part that I don't go and the
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: part that is misunderstood is all of these things about,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: you know, in Tampa, they said I jumped out a
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: hotel window to get... And then... And then arguments that
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: we had, and there were violence, and I didn't do
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: any of that stuff. Did I jump out a window
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: in Tampa? Yeah, because Kate said I called her, and
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I wasn't supposed to speak to her. She called me,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: and she said I violated an order of protection by
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: her calling me. And the police came to the hotel.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: She already called TMZ to have them waiting outside. She
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: knew what she was doing. And I tried to jump
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: from one balcony to another to avoid them, and I
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: fell four stories.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: And did you get injured?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Just black and blue.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting because you still have stuck by her.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: She's the mother of my kids.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: How can I not do that?
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. And I think that's really important to note, though,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: because I think.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Rachel, I have probably about 60 letters here from people
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: who have said, thank you for saving my life, my
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: son's life, my wife's life, my kid's life, and so
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: on and so forth. How could I....
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: know about the drawers. The drawer.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: Just the one square before bed. Or two, you know.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: Nobody's watching. You deserve a treat.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: With eight flavours to choose from, you can choose the
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I would turn my back on someone that's a family member,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: someone that was the mother of my kids.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: But I think that's really important to make note of
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: because people that don't know you might not know your
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: history with being loyal and protective. And even though people
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: have read so many things about you and Kate or
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: you and Dina or whoever it is having altercations because
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I think people know you as like a tough guy
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: sometimes and sometimes involved in stuff.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not a tough guy. But I would say as
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: being your friend that I know you to actually be
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: very caring, a good father, someone who's very family oriented.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Likewise as a mother.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you. And you put your kids first. And I
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: think that that is something that a lot of people
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: misunderstand about you because they think sometimes they see you
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: in the headlines and they think that's what you're about.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: I never wanted that, Rachel. I never wanted that. You know,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: I was in the headlines to clear the record. You know,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: at the beginning, and I don't even bother doing that now. Yeah.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: It's like water off a duck's back. But I'm the
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: kind of person where if you're going to lie or
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I hear you lie about me, I'm going to step
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: up and I'm going to prove you wrong. Yeah. Just
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: like we'll talk about in a little while. But you
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: know what? There's nothing. If something is said about me
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: and it's true, I'm okay with it. Yeah. No matter what.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: But don't lie about me. Don't lie about my kids.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Don't lie about my family. Yeah. Don't because I'm going
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: to call you on it.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: And I think that's really important because I remember way
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: back when, when I didn't know you, I would see
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: you on TMZ or different places sort of having, not
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: press conferences, but saying your story, you know, getting your
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: word out. And I think the criticism there was like,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: why is he involving everybody in his problems with whoever
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: it may be?
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I'll give you an example. What was that idiot lawyer's name, Mark?
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Which lawyer?
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: The lawyer that represented Lindsay Thandina.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah. um, we'll get the name, but yeah.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Can you look that up? Mark, whatever. Anyway, he was
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: out there and he was just using Lindsay, you know,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: just using her just to, just for, you know, for
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: his own purposes, just to get his name out there.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: And he wasn't doing anything to help her. This is
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: my daughter struggling with some real life issues and you're
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: out there just trying to poo poo it and just
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: get your name out in the press. I wasn't good
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: standing for that. And I did have a press conference
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: and I chased him around outside. He was outside the
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: courthouse after Lindsay got sentenced and he's just doing dog,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: a dog and pony show. And I wasn't going to
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: stand for that. Yeah.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, I think that helps to clarify because
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of times people would see you almost, they thought,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: adding fuel to the fire, let's say, by speaking. But
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that's as much anymore, but I
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: definitely understand now why you felt the need to take
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: a stand, make your own statement. And as someone who
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the media has narrated my story, I mean, it's very
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: difficult to sit back and not have a voice.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Well, that's, you know, that's being protective of your family
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: when people are trying to use them or say that
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: you know, the wrong thing about them and hurt them
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: in any capacity, whether it's physically or it hurt their
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: career or their reputation or their, you know, whatever they're
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: doing in life. And especially overlooking the real needs that
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: they have when it comes to addiction and just trying to,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: like to me, if someone has an addiction problem, if
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: you get them off the hook scot-free and you're not
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: addressing the problem, it's a disservice to the person because
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: it's not going to get better.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: So when I had my store, I took in a,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: girl who was homeless. I gave her a job and
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: she ended up being more nuts than what I could
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: help her with. I mean, I really thought, yeah, I
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: really thought I could help her and I really liked her,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: but then I started to see signs of her being, um, Erica.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: And the fact was, is I, I couldn't help her
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: because clearly she was doing drugs and she wasn't telling
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: me exactly what was going on and she was becoming unreliable.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: So I called you. So And you ended up helping her.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: You put her in rehab for me. But let's get
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to that for a minute because at some point you
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: decided to get into the treatment world.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Talk about that, how you got into that, what that
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: job was.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Well, when I had the accident in 2005, I went
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: through an epiphany. I was on a mission that night
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: and I was going to hurt somebody. And God stopped
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: me from hurting someone else. And I got hurt in
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the accident. And actually, instead of taking a life, he
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: took my life. and gave it back to me. And
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I decided to dedicate my life to helping people with
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: addiction problems.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: So there's a question twofold there. Cause I want to
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: talk about the treatment centers and the addiction side of it.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: But is that when your faith really blossomed that night?
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Had you been involved in church or believing in God
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: before then?
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: I grew up as a Catholic, but I didn't really
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: know religion. Like I knew it when I studied the Bible,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: I went to Bible college and, you know, really understood
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: what the real meaning of, of the words in the
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Bible were. Um, I went and Teen Challenge, I worked
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: for Pastor Jimmy Jack at Teen Challenge, who was an amazing,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: amazing man. And I really gave my heart and soul
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: to it. And from there on, after I worked for them,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I started in the private sector and opened up my
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: own rehab. And it was doing really, really well. But
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I had some partners that were in it for the
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: money and not for helping people. And if the insurance
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: ran out, they kicked them out of rehab if they
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: weren't ready. And I wasn't, you know, I wasn't standing
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: for that. I would take I would take these guys
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: that they were kicking out, bring them in my own house.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: And I kept them clean for a long, long time.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: They stayed clean.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And how long were you in this treatment business?
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: 16 years.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: So what made you get out of it?
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: It's funny. It's ironic because the first treatment center I opened,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I opened with a guy named Brett. I'm not going
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: to say his last name. Well, Brett was broke on
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Long Island, driving a broke down car, living in a
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: broken down house and He asked me what I was doing,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: and I told him, and he got some people to
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: invest in rehab with me. And because he got the
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: investors in, he was a partner in it. Well, fast
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: forward a number of treatment centers later. We sold that
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: first treatment center. He screwed me out of a bunch
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: of money, but in order to get that money back,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I stayed in business with him. And he wound up
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: getting in trouble in a treatment center that he asked
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: me to come in and revamp and help recreate. And
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I built a whole wellness department for it and did
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of promotion and marketing. Well, he got in
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: trouble again with the owner of the treatment center. And
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: the two of them conspired to say that I was
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: patient brokering. Okay. And that means sending people to the
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: treatment center and getting paid for the people you sent.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Now. Getting paid by who?
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: By the treatment center.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: So, number one, my paychecks were the same amount every month. Mm-hmm.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: They all amounted to the same amount. Yes, they were
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: broken up to $ 2, 500 and $ 5, 000 or $ 2, 500 or $ 7, 500
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: and $ 7, 500 and $ 2, 500 because they didn't have the money
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: all the time. However, it was all the same amount.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Never got paid from one single client. However, because these
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: idiots said so, they charged me with patient brokering. I
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: went ahead and I took three polygraph tests. Mm-hmm. passed
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: every word, every question, and every test, and a voice
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: stress analyzer test, and passed all of those questions and
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: that test too. They still charge me. And as recently
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: as only a month.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And what was the actual charge?
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Patient brokering.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. And what's the?
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: They said I got paid, after 16 years of treatment,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: they said I got paid something like $ 16, 000 for referring patients.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Please give me a break. It
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: just makes no sense.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: What is that punishable by?
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Well, it was probation and a fine.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: But is that what you were looking at? I mean,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: could they have sent you to jail?
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: No, they could have done more than that. But look,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I think they knew, you know, if I wanted to
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: go and fight it in court, I could have. I
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: would have spent probably another $ 150, 000 to $ 250, 000. It would
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: have been all over the news. My daughter was relaunching
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: her career. We didn't need that negative press. I'm a man.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: I took it on the chin.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Right. But that must have been hard for you because
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: this had been your career for a while.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because, I mean, I really loved doing what I
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: was doing. It gets overwhelming after a while dealing with
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: people and getting calls at all hours of the night
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: and trying to find, you know, and some people you
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: do lose. There's some people that you really put your
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: heart and soul into.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer. The drawer.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: Just the one square before bed. Or two, you know.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: Nobody's watching.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: You deserve a treat. With eight flavours to choose from,
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: you can choose the flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: When they wind up dying. Right. And it's, you know,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: it's a hard pill to swallow.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: And it's very hard to do that. Speaking of which,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: I just want to talk for one second about the
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: fact that you're sitting here with all these notes from
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: people saying how you've affected their life and changed their life.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I have over 60 letters here, and that's only half
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: of them of people that said I saved their life
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: or changed their life or their kids or their mothers
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: or husbands or wives. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: just sad that they would take the word of these
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: two liars. Yeah. ironically, who were charged with, and they
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: pled guilty, and in order to reduce their sentences, they
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: said I was patient-brokered.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see. Okay. Let's get back to Celebrity Rehab
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: for a second, because you made some interesting friendships then.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Who was on your episode?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, lots of people. Doc Gooden.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Love Doc.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Love Doc. Great guy.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Such a great guy. And Dwight Gooden is who we're
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: talking about from... The Mets, the 1986 Mets.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And the Yankees. Right. Well, I know him. With Daryl Strawberry. Yep.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: And, but he suffered from, it was cocaine, right? A
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: cocaine habit. And, uh, but just one of the sweetest,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: most genuine guys ever.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Great guy.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: His kids are great too. Some was great.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. All right. So go on.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Sorry. Um, Amy Fisher.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Great story. I'm dying to get her on the show.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: She, tell, tell a little bit. Yes. She, um, became
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: very friendly with Amy. She's, um, And met her husband, Lou,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: on the show and stayed friendly with them, but they
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: broke up.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting that somebody that has the
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: stigma of shooting in the face the woman who's married
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: to your lover, when you're the mistress, was able to
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: find a man to marry her. I just think that's
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: very interesting. I can't get married.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I'm going to sleep with one eye open, believe me.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So I'm curious to see how she turned out.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: It's funny, though, because Amy is a great mom. I'm
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: sure she really is.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, and that's part of why I do
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: this podcast, because listen, people do crazy things. People make mistakes.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: But sometimes we don't know what's going on in their head.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: And it would be interesting to get in her head here.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Why she did it now, like what she would say
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: now about why she behaved that way as a young
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: girl and how if she feels remorse and if she's
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: ever reached out. To the woman she shot. Was it Mary?
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Mary Jo.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Mary Jo Buttafuoco. If she had any contact with
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: the guy she was sleeping with. And, you know, how
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: she kind of went on in her life with having
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: that stigma. I think it's a really interesting conversation.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know where she is today. I think she's
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: dating some other guy. But I lost touch with her
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: probably a couple of years ago. But Jeremy Jackson was
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: on the show. I stay in touch with him to
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: this day. Jeremy is a great, great guy. Yeah. Like
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: a brother to me.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: And he also was interesting because he had a girlfriend
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: who- Lonnie, a wife.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, a wife. Okay.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Who suffered with some drug issues, maybe some mental health issues.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: And she's now homeless. But even after people have reached
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: out to her, she chooses to stay homeless.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: And she was a beautiful girl. Go ahead. So the
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: last time I saw Jeremy and lani was right here
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: in delray and we had dinner down here and they
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: were the happiest couple they were both i mean fitness
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: fanatics jeremy's always been a fitness nut uh in great
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: shape and happy and i just don't know what happened
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: after that i really don't just derailed and the next
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: thing i know is i saw lani pushing a shopping
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: cart yeah on venice beach.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Homeless yeah it's really sad.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Jeremy there was a story about him stabbing somebody or
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: something or whatever but right it's.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Really sad um okay so who else was of interest
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: on your cast uh.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Those were the most interesting people uh Bailey Bailey the
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Chinese actress she was on it she was great yeah
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: she was amazing we had a lot of a lot
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: of interesting people.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: On the show okay anyone else that you keep in
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: touch with.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Now to this day not really I stay more in
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: touch with the people from family therapy than I do
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: celebrity rehab. Right.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: And we were talking earlier about the thought process that
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: even though you wanted to help all these people, it is,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: you know, these people have to really want the help
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: to take it. They have to reach their version of
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: rock bottom to actually make the turn.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Addiction to me is a choice. It really is. Yes.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Is it physical to a degree? Absolutely. But once you
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: get through the withdrawals and you're sober, it's up to
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: you whether you want to pursue that or not. Yeah.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: It's a choice that you have to make. It's hard,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: but it's a choice.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: And that's a really difficult thing, though, because it's like
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: when you have someone in your family who's suffering from
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: an addiction, you want to make them get better. You
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: want to force them to go to rehab. You want
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: to change them. And I think what a lot of
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: people don't come to terms with is that it's really
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: up to the person.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: To get the help and accept the help and want
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: to make a change and want to put one foot
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: in front of the.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: Other every day.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I agree 100%.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Talk a little more about your faith now.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I'm very faithful. I love God. I raise my kids
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: like that. We pray all the time at night.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: And that's what I wanted to go back to for
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: a second because I think it was very important that you...
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: your life changed that one day when you had that
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: accident and faith became a big part of it. But
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: now it's something you've passed down to your kids. It's
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: something that you, you know, it's in your daily life.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Well, my father never really, you know, was a very
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: religious guy or spiritual guy. He was a dad, you know,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: my coach and a tough guy and just a really
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: wonderful provider. It really was my, and my mom was
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: just an angel, just the most amazing woman I've ever,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: ever experienced in my life. Anyway, um, I wanted my
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: kids to have more. I wanted them to have that relationship,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: not only with me, but with God. They love God.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: They love going to church. We talk about God all
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: the time. We make it more relevant, relevant to their
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: life and how to apply his principles in their own lives.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of, you know, I try to keep them
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: on course when they do the wrong thing. I said,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: is this something that God would want you to do?
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: And so on. And they think about and discuss it
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: with me. And they're, they're just amazing kids. They really are. Right.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: So now that you're not in the treatment center business anymore,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: you are doing new things to supplement your life and
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: to move forward. What are you working on now?
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: More in the wellness industry. When I got out of treatment,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: I got into wellness. And what I mean by wellness
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: is more holistic wellness, like hyperbaric chambers and IV therapy
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: and cryotherapy chambers and something called hypoxia chambers. So not
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: to get into a long discussion, but where a hyperbaric
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: chamber forces the air into your system. Mm-hmm. A hypoxia
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: chamber takes it out of your environment. So it's like
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: being at high altitudes and training at a high altitude.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: It gives you more stamina, endurance. It actually increases red
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: blood cell development, which in turn produces more oxygen in
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: your system and healing. Then we do ozone chamber therapy.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: We do red light therapy. We do everything under the sun.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Neurotherapy to help balance your brainwaves. And I took that
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: to another level, and one thing led to another, and
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: our company acquired an atmospheric water company that actually takes,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: it's all wellness-related, that actually takes the moisture from the
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: air and converts it to pure drinking water. It can
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: work on electricity, solar, or generator. We have a government contract.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: We are now franchising that system so people can use
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: water machines. And we're actually making some really innovative products
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: products called blast caps for some very high-end athletes. There
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: are caps that go on top of a water bottle,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: and the ingredients are in the cap, not in the
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: water already. And you push down on the cap, it's
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: all patented, and that powder goes into the drink, you
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: shake it, and you drink it. Now why that's important,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: and people don't realize this, is when you get a
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: vitamin water or an energy drink or anything like that,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: even water in general, it's hot-filled in that bottle. When
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: you hot-fill anything, you're diminishing... All those vitamins and minerals
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: and all the nutritional value of it. It's like boiling spinach.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: The spinach, when you get done, has some value, some
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: of the vitamins that you need, but most of it's
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: in the water. So by having this technology, all the
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: ingredients aren't being boiled or anything, not being exposed to light,
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: to temperature, and we can actually even put probiotics in there,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: which need refrigeration or pharmaceutical medicines in there, like malaria
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: medication and diarrhea medication, which kill most of the people
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: in Africa. And we can actually put them in these caps,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: and we can make it for one one-hundredth of the
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: price of regular vaccine is. Wow. Okay. Yeah.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Very interesting.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're doing a lot of really neat stuff.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Great. So do you think that people will ever see
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: you on a reality-type show again?
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: No. Never. No. No, not interested, no.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I have two little boys to raise and a life
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: to live.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Do you follow pop culture?
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: At a grand... Coming along.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Right. It was announced what it was, but we can
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: take that.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Breaking news.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: You have to cut that. I will.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Don't worry. Are we going to name it something?
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: Let's do that over again. And a grandchild coming along.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: Which we are all excited to find out what it is.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, should we do a, should we,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: should we guess? Am I allowed to guess? But now
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I can't guess. I'm going to guess a boy.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Do we get to put names in the pot?
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: I don't even know the name.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, are you suggesting names to her?
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Nope.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: You're staying out of it?
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's going to have a Middle Eastern name?
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: No, probably a spiritual name.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, interesting. So she's spiritual as well. Do you follow
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: pop culture anymore? Because you were a big part of it,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: and your daughter was a big part of it.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Not really. It doesn't bother me. You know why, Rachel?
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Because I just know that so much of it is BS. Right.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: You don't know what to believe unless you're firsthand.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: And, you know, it's just people are just mean.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: And as you and I know, I mean, what you
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: read in the tabloids is so different than what people's
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: realities are. And I think that even to this day, like,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: even though, you know, back then when we were in
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: the press a lot, it was like Star Magazine, Us Weekly,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: In Touch. all those kinds of things. But yeah, but
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: that's online, right? Then it moved to more online, TMZ, X17, Radar, especially.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: And now it's, yes, right. So now though, it's moved to,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: you know, you can find gossip on Demois or wherever
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: it is, you know, you can find it all sorts
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: of ways. But, you know, I constantly am listening to
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: people have conversations about stories they read, of which they
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: are not part of the story, and they talk about
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: it with such authority like they know what's going on.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: And that is one of the things that really bothers
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: me because even when I'm reading a story or listening
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: to people talk about a story about some sort of celebrity,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: if I don't know them, I still get almost upset
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: about it because I'm like, you have no idea what
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: you're talking about.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: But you take it personally too because it's been done
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: to you.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, in so many ways.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: It's been done to me, but also I just think
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: the ignorance of people that really believe that stuff, and
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: they base an opinion on one of the people versus
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: the other, right? And someone's a good person, someone's a
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: bad person, always.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: People love gossip.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: They love drama.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: They just don't know. They're bored with their own lives,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: so what if they talk about other people? Right.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: And it makes their lives not seem so bad.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: They perpetuate that rumor and make it worse and worse,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: and it's not right. It's like telephones. You know, that
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: telephone scenario where you can say one thing and after
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: 10 people saying it, it's a totally different narrative.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: It comes out as something different, yeah. But what I
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: don't think people realize is how hurtful it can be
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: to someone's reputation because that person is a real person.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: You know, it was difficult for me for years to, like,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: kind of associate with people getting my daughter into school.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: You know, the moms didn't want me there. for something
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: that had happened 10 years before. Um, but it's more
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: than that. It's more like they just want someone to,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: it's like herd mentality that they just want to really
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: dislike that person because it makes them become a friend
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: with someone else that also doesn't like that person.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: It makes them, you know, makes them more relative. Yeah. Right.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: But someone very smart told me, um, that you should, uh,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: look to the people that, you know, write bad comments
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: about you or all the people that have negative things
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: to say as like a fan club. And that group
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: of people are the people that you realize like they live,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: you live in their head and they have nothing to
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: do with you, right? And so it kind of makes
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: you feel better if you think of it in that way.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: There's different ways of spinning it to make yourself feel
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: better about it. Just to me, people that gossip aren't
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: worth my time. People talk about, like my daughter Allie really, this.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: She said, Daddy, I just don't deal with negativity at all.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Just get rid of it. And, you know, I know
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: that as an adult. Yeah. But to hear your own
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: child say that and say, Dad, just let it go.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Don't let it bother you. It just festers in you. Right.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: And it's true.
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: Last question.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: What is the most misunderstood thing about you, because there
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: are a lot, that you want people to know now
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: going forward?
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I can identify just one thing
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: right now. You know, it's on my own person. Mm-hmm. No,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: I really am. And I just, you know, it's never
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: about anyone else. It's about me. And to me, loyalty
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: and honesty and trust are the most important things a
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: person can live by outside of loving somebody. Okay.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: And me as an outsider and a friend looking in,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: I would say something misunderstood about you is that you
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: did a lot of things for the headlines or you
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: just were associated with a family that was all about
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: the headlines. And that is just not true. It's just
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: not true.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: You're right about that. I do more things for people
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: than I do about myself in the headlines. I don't
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: do things for headlines. Unfortunately, you wind up in the
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: headlines sometimes. But my life is about serving other people,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: not myself. It always was and always will be.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: If anyone is struggling right now that's listening with a
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: family member that is having some addiction problems, having some
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: personal problems, or they themselves are, what would be a
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: suggestion for them to do to get some help?
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Be proactive. Don't deny it. Don't put it off, but
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: do something about it.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: And ask for help, probably.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can't give that help anymore, unfortunately, because
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I'll be in violation of the terms of the agreement
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: I signed. But there's people out there that can help,
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: but the most important thing is get help.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Right, and I would say it's to not feel alone,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: because I think so many people in certain circumstances, and
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: it doesn't even have to be addiction, but they're Living
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: in their head with all sorts of.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Well, isolation causes addiction. Yeah. No doubt about it. Looking
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: during COVID, how addiction soared. Right. Everyone was all bottled up,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: literally bottled up. Yeah. Drinking and doing drugs. Do you
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: realize how many drug dealers made a ton of money
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: during COVID?
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: They were delivering drugs constantly. While supermarkets and everyone else
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: was closing down, their shop never closed down. You know,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: it made it worse and worse. Yeah. I'm really, I
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: shouldn't say I'm surprised because I know what you're capable of,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: but what you've done with this show is just absolutely amazing.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: The people you have on and just have your natural
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: talent for doing this.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: You're very comfortable to talk to.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you. And I appreciate you being on with me,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: especially as my friend.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: It's an honor.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Well, it's an honor and a pleasure to
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: see you all the time. I love you.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: I love you more.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Rachel Yucatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: and give us a five-star rating and review. You can
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel. Do you have ideas for the
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: show or want to reach out? Email us at infomisunderstoodpodcast
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: at gmail.com. That's spelled M-I-S-S understood. Thank you so much,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: and I'll see you next time.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer. The drawer.
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: Just the one square before bed. Or two, you know.
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: Nobody's watching.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: You deserve a treat. With eight flavours to choose from,
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: you can choose the flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.