Latest / Stuff You Should Know / Is it legal to sterilize addicts?

Transcript

Is it legal to sterilize addicts? · Stuff You Should Know

0:00
Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
0:03
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
0:08
Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to
0:16
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant
0:20
Speaker 1: that makes this stuff you should know the podcast The
0:23
Speaker 1: Addiction right, yea? How do I just realize I was
0:27
Speaker 1: giving all kinds of awesome sign language but no one
0:30
Speaker 1: can see that. I could see it just having a
0:33
Speaker 1: beneficial effect on me, pumping you up. Yeah, um, Chuck, Josh,
0:37
Speaker 1: you doing good? Great? Good, almost good. I'm great. It's
0:41
Speaker 1: Friday afternoon. Glad to hear that. Dude. You're about to
0:44
Speaker 1: go on vacation too. I am. You're probably pretty excited, right,
0:47
Speaker 1: I am very y'all even tonight tomorrow morning? Awesome? Yes,
0:51
Speaker 1: you're ready, Yes, Chuck. Yes. Do you know the economic
0:56
Speaker 1: cost for child abuse in the United States? I do,
0:59
Speaker 1: but I won't ruin it. It's massive. Let's talk about it,
1:03
Speaker 1: because you can chart anything. Yeah, it kind of money
1:06
Speaker 1: to good at that, and they're really good at that. UM.
1:08
Speaker 1: You've got direct costs like UM foster care programs, law enforcement,
1:14
Speaker 1: hospital care, medical costs, that kind of thing. Um, you've
1:19
Speaker 1: got indirect costs like funding the court system, right, loss
1:23
Speaker 1: of productivity for all the people who have to like
1:25
Speaker 1: go to be on a jury, all that kind of thing.
1:30
Speaker 1: A hundred and four billion dollars in two thousand seven
1:34
Speaker 1: is what child abuse costs the US, right, Josh, that
1:37
Speaker 1: sounds almost like more money than we spend on education
1:40
Speaker 1: in the United States. It was it was that year,
1:44
Speaker 1: well the year before. Yeah, yeah, and then interesting it's
1:46
Speaker 1: interesting and said, yeah, um, so if you have no heart,
1:50
Speaker 1: but dollar signs really makes sense to you, you can
1:53
Speaker 1: agree that child abuse is a bad thing. Right. Uh,
1:57
Speaker 1: if you do have a heart, then child abuses bad thing.
2:00
Speaker 1: Either way, it's a bad thing. Um. Child abuse, though,
2:05
Speaker 1: is not necessarily all just battering children or sexually molesting children.
2:11
Speaker 1: There's also and most of them are cases of neglect. Yeah,
2:14
Speaker 1: they have a stat here eighty six point six percent
2:17
Speaker 1: or neglect. And they surveyed some child welfare workers and
2:23
Speaker 1: is an awkward stat but it is of them estimated
2:27
Speaker 1: that about half of their neglect cases were from drug
2:32
Speaker 1: drug addicted parents, which makes sense. It does drugs. You're
2:37
Speaker 1: not going to provide care for your child adequately. Um.
2:40
Speaker 1: There's another study found that children who are born addicted
2:43
Speaker 1: to drugs, meaning that they have drug addicted parents who
2:46
Speaker 1: did drugs while they were pregnant, or drug addicted mothers
2:50
Speaker 1: at least um, those kids are two to three times
2:52
Speaker 1: more likely to be abused than non addicted children. I
2:55
Speaker 1: would argue that they're already abused, that's that's a good point,
2:59
Speaker 1: but even later on that they are much more likely
3:03
Speaker 1: to become abused, probably through neglect, because if you are like,
3:09
Speaker 1: I really need to score some crack, you're not gonna
3:12
Speaker 1: be like, but first I need to make sure my
3:14
Speaker 1: child has a healthy dinner. I gotta pump and dump
3:16
Speaker 1: before I go out and hit the streets. That's another
3:18
Speaker 1: thing too. Um. So, what we've just done, and what
3:21
Speaker 1: is not very difficult, we've connected, um, drug addicted parents
3:26
Speaker 1: to child abuse. We started out with child abuse is bad, right,
3:30
Speaker 1: Why don't we just sterilize drug addicts so they can't
3:33
Speaker 1: have any kids. That sounds like a great idea, does it? Uh?
3:38
Speaker 1: It sounds like an idea that's actually being done, is
3:41
Speaker 1: what that sounds like. And I have my dancing shoes
3:44
Speaker 1: on for this podcast because this is tricky business dude. Yeah,
3:49
Speaker 1: you can see both sides. It's the slady. Barbara Harris
3:53
Speaker 1: makes some points where I think interesting point. Plus she
3:56
Speaker 1: has some cred. Let's talk about her real quick. Barbara
3:58
Speaker 1: Harris is the founder of some thing called Commune or
4:01
Speaker 1: Children Require a Caring Community crack because community spell to
4:06
Speaker 1: the K. Yeah, that's I can't believe she stretched that.
4:09
Speaker 1: She is a former International House of Pancakes waitress who
4:14
Speaker 1: is a mother, a biological mother to six children and
4:17
Speaker 1: an adopted mother to four African American children who are
4:21
Speaker 1: born to a drug addicted mother. She walks the walk.
4:25
Speaker 1: She spent her days driving the United States in an
4:28
Speaker 1: RV promoting her UM organization, the main purpose of which
4:35
Speaker 1: is to carry out what's called project prevention, which is
4:39
Speaker 1: what we just mentioned chuck sterilizing addicts. Yeah, and we
4:42
Speaker 1: should say that her r V is not any ordinary
4:44
Speaker 1: r V. It has the whole thing is decorated with
4:48
Speaker 1: a huge picture of a dead baby, um, a line
4:52
Speaker 1: of crack, cocaine, I believe, a razor blade, and then
4:56
Speaker 1: some things just don't go together. Is the quote? Is
4:58
Speaker 1: that right? I couldn't find that one. I've I read
5:01
Speaker 1: that in a time article, I think, but Um, I
5:04
Speaker 1: saw a picture of the one that she's using in
5:06
Speaker 1: the UK, and it's a picture of a baby crying
5:09
Speaker 1: and it says, Uh, she has her father's eyes and
5:12
Speaker 1: her mother's heroin addiction. So she has a knack for
5:14
Speaker 1: getting her message out there. And one of the ways
5:16
Speaker 1: she has done that, aside from her RV, is a
5:19
Speaker 1: string of billboards in the nineties in Los Angeles that
5:22
Speaker 1: UM had taglines like don't let pregnancy ruin your drug habit. Yeah,
5:27
Speaker 1: it's gonna get some attention, yep. Or I think there's
5:30
Speaker 1: another one who's like, UM, like drugs, are you pregnant,
5:34
Speaker 1: gets sterilized? Get three bucks or something like that, which
5:37
Speaker 1: basically is like gets sterilized, We'll give you three hundred
5:39
Speaker 1: dollars in drug money. Well, there you go. That the
5:42
Speaker 1: cats out of the bag. Um, that's what we're doing there. Well,
5:45
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways to look at this. It
5:47
Speaker 1: is a bribe too. It's a bribe to drug addicts
5:52
Speaker 1: who will in most cases spend there this money on
5:55
Speaker 1: drugs to give up their fertility. This woman is buying
6:00
Speaker 1: drug addicts fertility through her her program. Another way to
6:04
Speaker 1: look at it is that she is taking a lot
6:07
Speaker 1: of the burden off of the state. Um, who are
6:12
Speaker 1: we're going to eventually be charged with caring for these children?
6:15
Speaker 1: Were not yet conceived. Uh, And like we said, originally
6:18
Speaker 1: there were billboards, flyers, aggressive methods like hanging out at
6:24
Speaker 1: A meetings and n A meetings and basically, um, Barbara
6:28
Speaker 1: Harris's view is that if you've ever been addicted, even
6:31
Speaker 1: if you're clean, now just go ahead and get sterilized
6:34
Speaker 1: because you've kind of given up your right to have children.
6:39
Speaker 1: She doesn't see um reproduction as a right, which is
6:44
Speaker 1: what makes her very contentious to most people, very controversial
6:48
Speaker 1: thing that she's doing here. Yes, clearly, so, Chuck, how
6:51
Speaker 1: does this work? Do you know? Well, Josh, Um, it's
6:55
Speaker 1: important to point out that she will only accept someone
6:59
Speaker 1: into the program it already has one child, at least
7:02
Speaker 1: one at least one child, You're right, and Um, they
7:06
Speaker 1: the drug addict will have to fill out the paperwork
7:10
Speaker 1: and have their counselor probably social counselor or judge appointed
7:14
Speaker 1: counselor sign something that says they are in fact drug addicts,
7:18
Speaker 1: or a social work or in a rest report. They
7:21
Speaker 1: have to prove your drug addict. First off, got to
7:23
Speaker 1: prove it and then that you can either be sterilized
7:27
Speaker 1: or you can go on long term birth control. Right
7:31
Speaker 1: and um, if you go on birth control, you get
7:34
Speaker 1: two hundred bucks. You UM get a hundred up front, right,
7:37
Speaker 1: a hundred when you sign a contract that says I
7:39
Speaker 1: will do this and keep it up in a hundred
7:41
Speaker 1: after you prove that you're you're doing it, or you
7:44
Speaker 1: get three hundred bucks. Here's what they do. This is
7:47
Speaker 1: a bystander organization. They don't provide any kind of clinics
7:50
Speaker 1: where you where they perform the sterilization. Basically, what they
7:54
Speaker 1: do is say, prove to us you're a drug addict. Okay,
7:56
Speaker 1: we believe you're a drug addict. You're not qualified. Sign
7:59
Speaker 1: this contract. It says you'll go do this. Now, go
8:01
Speaker 1: do it. Get Medicaid or Medicare to pay for your
8:04
Speaker 1: sterilization programs, so you and I are paying for this
8:06
Speaker 1: pre sterilization. And then come bring us a note from
8:10
Speaker 1: the doctor that says that this happened, that proves that
8:13
Speaker 1: this procedure happened, that you're sterilized, and here's your three
8:16
Speaker 1: d bucks. And hey, if you bring by one of
8:19
Speaker 1: your crack addic buddies. We'll give you another fifty bucks
8:21
Speaker 1: if they do it. Yep, I always got to pay
8:23
Speaker 1: the referral fee. Yeah, so no strings attached except for
8:30
Speaker 1: a contract. That's another problem too. There isn't any kind
8:32
Speaker 1: of counseling now. It's just no parent classes, no parenting classes,
8:36
Speaker 1: no UM drug cessation programs. It's just here's some money
8:40
Speaker 1: to go give up your reproduction, your ability to reproduce.
8:45
Speaker 1: And since uh, it's founding, I'm sorry. Within thirteen years
8:49
Speaker 1: of its founding, UM she has worked with more than
8:52
Speaker 1: thirty seven hundred drug addicts in the United States, and
8:56
Speaker 1: about a third of those were sterilized from my math
9:00
Speaker 1: roughly the rest I guess or on long term birth control. Wow.
9:06
Speaker 1: And now she's making a way to the UK and
9:08
Speaker 1: she wants to go to Kenya for women with HIV
9:11
Speaker 1: and AIDS. Yeah. So that's pretty successful in the US,
9:15
Speaker 1: and thirteen years in the UK she's finding a much
9:17
Speaker 1: harder time of it. Um. Well, she's getting a lot
9:22
Speaker 1: more flak. Yeah, but she got support to begin with
9:24
Speaker 1: us is the reading. She went over there, some anonymous
9:26
Speaker 1: donor gave her twenty grand and she got a lot
9:29
Speaker 1: of the BBC did a special on her and she
9:31
Speaker 1: got a bunch of phone calls saying please come over here,
9:34
Speaker 1: and then the anonymous Downer came along gave her twenty grand.
9:37
Speaker 1: She says that she took that as a sign signs
9:41
Speaker 1: she started to set up in in the UK and
9:43
Speaker 1: if you go on the Project Prevention website, it says, um,
9:47
Speaker 1: there's a UK tab that you can click. Um, so
9:51
Speaker 1: she is set up in the UK, and then you
9:53
Speaker 1: also mentioned Kenya. She's getting probably the most grief of
9:57
Speaker 1: all for Kenya. Understandably. Basically, she it has decided that
10:01
Speaker 1: not only can you break the cycle of addiction by
10:03
Speaker 1: taking away the ability to reproduce among addicts, you can
10:07
Speaker 1: cure AIDS by just letting everybody who has AIDS die
10:09
Speaker 1: out and not reproduced, basically children with AIDS or hiv UM.
10:17
Speaker 1: In both cases, it depends on how who you are
10:20
Speaker 1: and how you're looking at it, because there are definitely
10:22
Speaker 1: people out there who support this, the Kenya AIDS Initiative
10:27
Speaker 1: and sterilizing addicts, because in both cases what you're looking
10:30
Speaker 1: at is uh an end do a perceived cycle where
10:35
Speaker 1: everything else is failing. It's not necessarily the case. Though
10:39
Speaker 1: there is drug treatment for drug addiction, there are drugs
10:44
Speaker 1: that can treat HIV. UM. There are also educational programs
10:48
Speaker 1: that you can teach people to to take better care,
10:53
Speaker 1: take preventative measures. This lady is not interested in that
10:56
Speaker 1: and in the I mean it's a part of the state,
11:00
Speaker 1: the government medical program here seeing well, yeah, I guess
11:05
Speaker 1: you can get birth control for free. Here came Medicaid Medicare.
11:08
Speaker 1: That's how this thing is functioning. Addicts go get these
11:11
Speaker 1: procedures or their birth control for free, for through texpayer
11:14
Speaker 1: funding programs like medicaid medicare, and she's given them three bucks. Um,
11:19
Speaker 1: just go talk about Kenya for a second longer. Did
11:21
Speaker 1: you look at that? Uh? Now, I didn't look much
11:24
Speaker 1: into it. Actually, she found a doctor who said that
11:26
Speaker 1: he'll he'll insert i U d S, which is long
11:28
Speaker 1: term birth control, but it's temporary, it's reversible, for seven
11:32
Speaker 1: bucks a pop. And then her organization will pay UM
11:36
Speaker 1: women with HIV AIDS UM forty bucks for it. So
11:40
Speaker 1: forty seven bucks a person. She's just buying their reproductive
11:45
Speaker 1: abilities in Kenya. There are a lot of people who
11:49
Speaker 1: are frustrated by that. I'm sure. So Chuck, how is
11:53
Speaker 1: any of this legal? Well, Uh, Planned Parenthood is one
11:57
Speaker 1: organization that says, you know what, this is possibly illegal.
12:03
Speaker 1: Uh if you're talking contract law, because there's something when
12:06
Speaker 1: you have a vasectomy or any kind of sterilization that says, uh,
12:10
Speaker 1: informed consent, like you have to be in there of
12:12
Speaker 1: your own free will. It's not h Daddy isn't out
12:16
Speaker 1: in the car forcing you to go in and get
12:17
Speaker 1: your tubes tied. That kind of thing. Um they basically
12:21
Speaker 1: you're saying that you know this three d bucks is coercive,
12:24
Speaker 1: it's a bribe, and it's not informed consent going on. No,
12:28
Speaker 1: because if if, if there's a bribe involved, Yeah, you can't,
12:31
Speaker 1: like informed consent can exist medicaid in medicare requires informed consent.
12:38
Speaker 1: But here's the loophole. The informed consent has to be
12:42
Speaker 1: between the patient and the provider. Project prevention is a
12:47
Speaker 1: third party and interested third party who is really not
12:51
Speaker 1: involved in that equation. And the court protects the lady
12:54
Speaker 1: going into get her tubes tied. Yes, And the court's
12:57
Speaker 1: protecting the lady who's paying the US and to go
13:00
Speaker 1: get their tubes tied. Because this is even though like
13:04
Speaker 1: it's it's um extremely unethical and immoral in some people's eyes.
13:09
Speaker 1: It is still technically illegal because the provider of the
13:13
Speaker 1: sterilization services not giving this this person three d bucks.
13:16
Speaker 1: Someone else's here too. Of her arguments which made me
13:21
Speaker 1: at least sit back and think for a minute about
13:23
Speaker 1: what the heck is going on here, because this is,
13:25
Speaker 1: like I said, this is a narrow line this lady's walking,
13:28
Speaker 1: so I might say she's way way over it. Uh.
13:31
Speaker 1: One of the arguments used against her is that these
13:34
Speaker 1: um women are not in their right mind to decide
13:38
Speaker 1: to have this procedure done. They're on drugs. You're given
13:41
Speaker 1: him this money. So her argument back is so they're
13:44
Speaker 1: not of sound mind enough to have this procedure, but
13:46
Speaker 1: they're of sound mind enough to decide to have a kid. Yeah,
13:49
Speaker 1: it's a good argument. Her other big argument is against
13:53
Speaker 1: her is that you're taking away a woman's right to
13:57
Speaker 1: choose to have a baby essentially, and her are gim
14:00
Speaker 1: and reverses, Well, why is that right more important than
14:03
Speaker 1: a child's right to be born into a normal environment
14:07
Speaker 1: and have a shot at a normal life. So I
14:11
Speaker 1: believe that she is not necessarily trying to create some
14:15
Speaker 1: pure race of smart white people. I think she is
14:19
Speaker 1: trying to stop crack babies from being born, but she's
14:23
Speaker 1: doing it is definitely stirred the pot. The impression I
14:27
Speaker 1: have is that even this lady's critics are UM say
14:31
Speaker 1: that she's a true believer. Yeah, she's not, Like, she's
14:35
Speaker 1: not a social engineer. She doesn't see it like that.
14:38
Speaker 1: The problem is is, like I think a lot of
14:40
Speaker 1: people are worried about where she's getting her funding. UM,
14:44
Speaker 1: her largest donor apparently UM. Crack and Project Prevention have
14:49
Speaker 1: about five thousand dollars a year in operating budget ok UM,
14:56
Speaker 1: which I guess is enough to fund to fuel the
14:58
Speaker 1: RV around the country and keep the website going and
15:01
Speaker 1: pay as many addicts as possible. UM. But most of
15:04
Speaker 1: that money is coming from a guy who is a
15:07
Speaker 1: billionaire named Richard Mellen Scafe. Right. I hadn't either, but
15:14
Speaker 1: he's apparently UM on the right right hand of the
15:18
Speaker 1: spectrum politically. Yeah. He runs the Pittsburgh Tribune, which is
15:23
Speaker 1: a right wing newspaper as far as its leanings UM,
15:26
Speaker 1: and he The idea of a billionaire funding a project
15:31
Speaker 1: like that scares the tar out of people because it
15:35
Speaker 1: gives it a classist, um bent. Even if this lady
15:40
Speaker 1: is a former eyehop waitress, if the people who are
15:43
Speaker 1: giving her the money to do this indefinitely are billionaires,
15:47
Speaker 1: then what what you're talking about is how one person
15:50
Speaker 1: put it. Um, you have a structure in which the
15:53
Speaker 1: economically privileged can and do dictate who will and who
15:58
Speaker 1: won't have children end quote, which means you're you're on crack,
16:04
Speaker 1: or you're black, or we've decided that you're unfit to reproduce,
16:09
Speaker 1: but instead of forcing it, we're gonna pay you. But really,
16:12
Speaker 1: what's the difference. Yeah, I mean, it's a nonprofit quote unquote,
16:15
Speaker 1: but a nonprofit funded by a billionaire. It's different kind
16:20
Speaker 1: of nonprofit, you know what I'm saying. Another criticism is
16:24
Speaker 1: um that it is racially disproportionate. Um. She will point
16:28
Speaker 1: out that a thousand clients were African American, whereas more
16:32
Speaker 1: than eight hundred have been white. But Um, as far
16:36
Speaker 1: as percentages of population goes, it's it's skewed heavily towards blacks. Yeah,
16:40
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense if you I mean,
16:43
Speaker 1: in hard numbers, it's like, well, there's way more white
16:45
Speaker 1: people than black people who have taken part in this.
16:47
Speaker 1: But if you look at the proportion of the population UM,
16:51
Speaker 1: seventies something percent of the US population is white, whereas
16:54
Speaker 1: only like about thirteen percent is black, So those numbers
16:58
Speaker 1: actually are very disproportioned new UM and also the original
17:02
Speaker 1: billboards targeted low income, predominantly African American areas of Los
17:06
Speaker 1: Angeles at the beginning. UM. I think ultimately what scares
17:13
Speaker 1: people is that even if this is an addicts choice,
17:17
Speaker 1: even if you agree, this addict is making their own decision,
17:21
Speaker 1: and in some cases there are UM. In this time article,
17:24
Speaker 1: there's a woman named Joe and Chavarria, and she's just
17:27
Speaker 1: like this model participant. There's a quote from her that said,
17:31
Speaker 1: like when you stop having kids, that makes you think
17:33
Speaker 1: about what else you can do in life. She already
17:35
Speaker 1: has five kids, the state has custody of them. She
17:38
Speaker 1: got sterilized and took her three hundred dollars and bought
17:41
Speaker 1: Easter presence and educational toys for her children, who she's
17:44
Speaker 1: trying to get back. She already had three kids, and
17:47
Speaker 1: then she gave birth to two drug addicted twins because
17:50
Speaker 1: she was addicted to meth um. She started doing math
17:53
Speaker 1: at eight months pregnant. Yeah, which is not a good
17:55
Speaker 1: time to start doing myth start. That's a particular bad
18:00
Speaker 1: time to start. I would agree with that. Um. Yeah,
18:03
Speaker 1: so she's a poster child. She is. But even if
18:06
Speaker 1: she's walking around, right, the the whole idea that that
18:13
Speaker 1: reproduction in reproductive rights should and could be controlled by
18:17
Speaker 1: other people, whether they're a private organization funded by a
18:20
Speaker 1: billionaire um or the government smacks of the eugenics movement.
18:25
Speaker 1: We've already done this before and it's it proved horrific. Right,
18:29
Speaker 1: we need to talk about eugenics, we definitely do. Let's
18:32
Speaker 1: do it well. Remember it came up in the Crimes
18:34
Speaker 1: Them Photography, Uh our podcast? Right, Yes, it was a
18:39
Speaker 1: big deal in the US. Yeah. When did it start? Night?
18:42
Speaker 1: Turn of the Century night, early early twentieth century. Eugenics
18:45
Speaker 1: was a movement a concept that you could create a
18:47
Speaker 1: fitter human species if you removed undesirable traits UM like
18:52
Speaker 1: chronic disease, UM, low socio economic status. Do you want
18:58
Speaker 1: to hear with this this model law for eugenics. Yeah,
19:01
Speaker 1: we'll say what the model law is first. Who was
19:03
Speaker 1: it that came up with that? A guy named Harry Laughlin? Um.
19:06
Speaker 1: He was the head of the Eugenics Record Office, and
19:07
Speaker 1: I remember at the time in the the um this
19:10
Speaker 1: was nineteen fourteen that he came up with the Model Law.
19:13
Speaker 1: There was this idea that, like you said, Chuck, you
19:15
Speaker 1: could create a fitter human race by basically weeding out
19:18
Speaker 1: the undesirable elements and we just letting the healthy, robust
19:23
Speaker 1: ones reproduce. Simple as pie, you get yourself a nice
19:27
Speaker 1: arian race boys from Brazil, right, Um, So to to
19:32
Speaker 1: carry this out. Most people who are unfit don't really
19:37
Speaker 1: consider themselves unfit, and even worse, in a lot of cases, Um,
19:41
Speaker 1: one of the sure signs that they are socially unfit
19:44
Speaker 1: is that they're sexually promiscuous. So you gotta take matters
19:48
Speaker 1: into your own hands. And the government has to force
19:49
Speaker 1: sterilization through the courts and not just formiscus. Should we
19:53
Speaker 1: read out some of the things in the law. Well
19:55
Speaker 1: this these are the undesirables, take it, Chuck, the feeble minded,
19:59
Speaker 1: the saying, criminalistic, the epileptic, the inebriate, the disease, the blind,
20:05
Speaker 1: the deaf, the deformed and dependent and orphans, near do wells, tramps,
20:11
Speaker 1: homeless and pauper's The only thing I don't see in
20:15
Speaker 1: here is skullduggery. Right, I'm surprised that's probably in here somewhere. Actually,
20:19
Speaker 1: So that was the model law for UM forced government
20:23
Speaker 1: mandated sterilization. You know, people who are targeting. Yeah, this
20:27
Speaker 1: is the US UM. And by this by the time
20:29
Speaker 1: this model law was created, UM, a couple of states
20:33
Speaker 1: already had their own compulsory sterilization laws based on the
20:37
Speaker 1: idea of eugenics. Right. I think Indiana and Connecticut were hot,
20:40
Speaker 1: hot on, hot on the trail. Yeah. California came fairly
20:45
Speaker 1: late to the game. UM. In the early to mid twenties,
20:49
Speaker 1: they had a law. But by that time, by UM,
20:54
Speaker 1: hundred of the three thousand people who had been forced
20:58
Speaker 1: to be sterilized under this law UM or in California.
21:02
Speaker 1: And one of the ideas behind it was that it
21:06
Speaker 1: was a tax saving measure. Right. The really interesting considering
21:13
Speaker 1: today's it sounds very familiar. UM. The U. S. Supreme
21:18
Speaker 1: Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes very famously said something that
21:23
Speaker 1: might also sound familiar as far as logic goes. UM.
21:27
Speaker 1: He said, quote, it is better for all the world if,
21:29
Speaker 1: instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or
21:33
Speaker 1: to let them starve for their imbecility. Society can prevent
21:37
Speaker 1: those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. And
21:41
Speaker 1: he finished up, and we'll talk about this case. Was saying,
21:43
Speaker 1: three generations of imbeciles are enough. He's talking about Carrie Buck.
21:49
Speaker 1: And she was a seventeen year old in Charlottesville, Virginia.
21:53
Speaker 1: She was the first person chosen to be sterilized in
21:56
Speaker 1: Virginia under the Dow Model law. She had a kid,
22:01
Speaker 1: but was not married. Her mother was in an insane
22:04
Speaker 1: asylum called the Virginia Colony for the epileptic and the
22:07
Speaker 1: feeble minded. It's not a place you want to visit
22:11
Speaker 1: and not leave. Uh. And here's her story. She was
22:15
Speaker 1: um picked because they thought that she shared hereditary traits
22:19
Speaker 1: with her mother, a feeble minded, feeble mindedness, and sexual promiscuity. Uh.
22:25
Speaker 1: They thought it was genetic. She already had one kid,
22:28
Speaker 1: and they thought, you know what, it's probable that she's
22:30
Speaker 1: gonna have a socially inadequate child after this, and let's
22:34
Speaker 1: sterilize her. Let's make her case number one in Virginia.
22:38
Speaker 1: Took her. They went to court. Um, it went all
22:41
Speaker 1: the way to the Supreme Court. Um, people testified against
22:44
Speaker 1: her that she had a record of immorality and uh, syphilis, prostitution,
22:49
Speaker 1: and untruthfulness. So the judge said, okay, let's sterilize her.
22:55
Speaker 1: And it was upheld. And it was upheld because that
22:57
Speaker 1: Oliver Wendell Holmes decision, that quote came from the majority
23:01
Speaker 1: opinion that yeah, we should go ahead and sterilize this girl.
23:03
Speaker 1: And she was sterilized. But what happened, Josh afterwards, Well,
23:07
Speaker 1: what we her kid was studied UM tremendously. This was
23:12
Speaker 1: not like, uh, there was popular, widespread support for eugenics
23:16
Speaker 1: in the US, but there are also plenty of people
23:18
Speaker 1: who are like, what are you doing? This is the
23:20
Speaker 1: worst thing we've ever done. Um. So her kid, UM,
23:25
Speaker 1: Vivian Buck was UM was followed her. A lot of
23:31
Speaker 1: stuff was not entered into the public record when during
23:34
Speaker 1: carry Buck's trial or hearings. UM. For one, she wasn't promiscuous.
23:39
Speaker 1: She was raped by her foster parents relative right, um.
23:43
Speaker 1: And then Vivian was not a an example of a
23:46
Speaker 1: third generation feeble minded person. She was a solid beast
23:50
Speaker 1: student apparently and was on the honor roll. UM. That
23:53
Speaker 1: was her first grade report card. So basically this woman
23:56
Speaker 1: was the the test case to keep seralization going or
24:02
Speaker 1: to really get it going, proved fraudulent in the end.
24:06
Speaker 1: Well not only that, but her defense lawyer, it turns
24:08
Speaker 1: out this was later uncovered, conspired with the lawyer for
24:11
Speaker 1: the Insane Asylum to guarantee that would be upheld. So
24:15
Speaker 1: it was completely fraudulent. Uh, but it was upheld in
24:20
Speaker 1: Virginia and eight three hundred Virginians were sterilized after that
24:24
Speaker 1: Buck versus Bell case eight thousand, three hundred. UM. Harry Laughlin,
24:30
Speaker 1: the guy who was running the eugenics record office and
24:33
Speaker 1: who wrote that model law in nineteen fourteen. He went
24:36
Speaker 1: on to get a mob um a medal from the
24:39
Speaker 1: Nazi government in nineteen thirty three for um his his
24:44
Speaker 1: contribution to the science of racial cleansing from the University
24:47
Speaker 1: of Heidelberg got an honorary degree. And UM, I didn't
24:52
Speaker 1: know this, but apparently the Rockefeller Foundation funded the German
24:59
Speaker 1: I can't remember with the name of the the research facility,
25:03
Speaker 1: but funded the German res for search facility where this
25:05
Speaker 1: was being born. Over there where is Mingla is that
25:10
Speaker 1: is that the Guy Rockfeller Center was funding them at
25:12
Speaker 1: the time too. And then Nazi says, this is a
25:15
Speaker 1: great idea, and we'll go on to sterilize thy thousand people.
25:18
Speaker 1: And it turns out that's not even enough, so we're
25:22
Speaker 1: just gonna start killing them. Right. So, if if you
25:25
Speaker 1: start people to say, like, oh, what could something ever
25:27
Speaker 1: lead to, you never know what it could lead to. Well,
25:30
Speaker 1: in the US, in the United States, UM, it led
25:34
Speaker 1: to a thirty three states with compulsory sterilization laws on
25:39
Speaker 1: the books that continued into the nineteen seventies. We were
25:43
Speaker 1: sterilizing the mentally retarded in the US. I was alive,
25:47
Speaker 1: I was born, and this was going on UM and
25:50
Speaker 1: ultimately about sixty thou people lost their ability to reproduce
25:54
Speaker 1: UM at the hands of the US government. UM. And
25:58
Speaker 1: this the guy who wrote this great paper, he's actually
26:01
Speaker 1: a pretty much an expert on the eugenics movement in
26:04
Speaker 1: the US. His name is Paul Lombardo. He's a University
26:06
Speaker 1: of Virginia professor. UM. He points out that the Carrie
26:11
Speaker 1: Buck case that basically allows compulsory sterilization of feeble minded
26:17
Speaker 1: people is still on the books. It's not overturned. Yeah,
26:21
Speaker 1: but it's one of those it's not you couldn't do
26:24
Speaker 1: it today, But wouldn't it be interesting if that came
26:26
Speaker 1: up and somebody when somebody ultimately challenges project prevention. I
26:31
Speaker 1: have a list of people who supported eugenics. Are you
26:34
Speaker 1: going to call him out? And this is not to
26:37
Speaker 1: say that they supported sterilization, because eugenics had a lot
26:40
Speaker 1: more to do with It was broader than just sterialization.
26:44
Speaker 1: But Woodrow Wilson, uh Margaret Sanger, who is the founder
26:49
Speaker 1: of Planned Parenthood, who was a lightning rod her self
26:52
Speaker 1: in her time, and now Planned Parenthood is criticizing Barbara Harris,
26:58
Speaker 1: which really says something. Oliver Wendell Holmes obviously we mentioned him. H. G. Wells,
27:03
Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt, John Maynard Keynes, and George Bernard Shaw are
27:08
Speaker 1: just a few who thought eugenics was pretty good idea
27:11
Speaker 1: at the Charles Lindbergh did you see him? No? No, no,
27:14
Speaker 1: was he in there? Remember he was all about Darwin
27:18
Speaker 1: and Limberg. Really I didn't know Limberg was in there.
27:22
Speaker 1: It wasn't that one article you sent me. No, that
27:24
Speaker 1: was for trans humanism, right, but it was for certain
27:27
Speaker 1: people it was based on genics. So Chuck Um, like
27:34
Speaker 1: you said, you had your dancing shoes on, and I
27:36
Speaker 1: can appreciate that. Should we talk about Jack Skinner real
27:38
Speaker 1: quick though, or do you want to? Well? Yeah, because
27:40
Speaker 1: that was when it was actually struck down in two
27:44
Speaker 1: Oklahoma criminal Um. They were going to start sterilizing criminals
27:48
Speaker 1: or they had been already probably right, repeat criminals, repeat criminals.
27:51
Speaker 1: And he was a chicken thief and uh an armed robber.
27:56
Speaker 1: And this went to court in justice William ou Douglas
27:59
Speaker 1: struck it down and had a very good point. He said,
28:03
Speaker 1: you're not gonna essentially I'm paraphrasing, you're not gonna sterilize
28:08
Speaker 1: at three time in Besler, all right, but you'll sterilize
28:12
Speaker 1: a chicken thief. So it comes back to class once again. Yeah,
28:15
Speaker 1: and then then that's where we are again. Um again,
28:20
Speaker 1: you did a good job with your dancing shoes. I'm
28:22
Speaker 1: dancing nice. Um. Depending on how you feel about it,
28:28
Speaker 1: this isn't going anywhere. This lady has been doing this
28:30
Speaker 1: for thirteen years and it first got attention, like right
28:33
Speaker 1: when she first started doing it. She gets attention every
28:36
Speaker 1: once in a while. I just heard about her, like
28:38
Speaker 1: a couple of months ago. I reckon if you've seen
28:41
Speaker 1: that RB around town, you'll pay attention. Yeah, and if
28:43
Speaker 1: you're in the UK, lookout for it because they're um,
28:46
Speaker 1: they're already investigating her people um for very aggressive tactics.
28:50
Speaker 1: Apparently this woman came out of a clinic with her
28:54
Speaker 1: kid and one of the Project Prevention people ran up
28:56
Speaker 1: and was like, hey, how would you like three hundred
28:58
Speaker 1: pounds to be sterilized or two hundre pounds to be sterilized?
29:01
Speaker 1: And she's like what, she wasn't a drug addict? Yeah,
29:05
Speaker 1: which because a tremendous amount of offense and now there
29:08
Speaker 1: it's being investigated. I'm wondering what kind of um reception
29:12
Speaker 1: shill ultimately have there. And she's got her sights on
29:15
Speaker 1: Australia next. So Project Prevention sterilizing addicts the answer to
29:21
Speaker 1: the question. Technically, yeah, it's legal reeks of eugenics. Yeah,
29:26
Speaker 1: but that's not illegal, that's right. And apparently you can
29:29
Speaker 1: go out and compulsor really sterilized a feeble minded person
29:33
Speaker 1: as long as you can provide that they were feeble minded.
29:36
Speaker 1: You know, we should do some podcasts on some like
29:38
Speaker 1: awesome things that America has done. I feel like we're
29:41
Speaker 1: always dredging up these awful things that we did in
29:43
Speaker 1: our past history. But people, a lot of people don't know.
29:46
Speaker 1: I was never taught about eugenics in high school. Oh no,
29:48
Speaker 1: neither was I. I don't know, but that didn't know
29:50
Speaker 1: we sterilize sixty people. But I think that's why we
29:52
Speaker 1: have to do this sometimes, Chuck, because we know a
29:55
Speaker 1: lot of the good stuff. You're right, we do need
29:57
Speaker 1: to come up with some great, awesome off to talk
30:00
Speaker 1: about two. But I think people generally think that way,
30:03
Speaker 1: and I think that a lot of this, the dirty,
30:05
Speaker 1: nasty stuff, just gets covered over and it can't can't
30:08
Speaker 1: because we're in the midst of a case of history
30:11
Speaker 1: repeating itself. And if we don't talk about it, if
30:14
Speaker 1: people don't know about it, then if you don't have
30:17
Speaker 1: the luxury of hindsight or to make an informed decision,
30:23
Speaker 1: hazza to that, sir, So uh uh Sterilized Addicts will
30:27
Speaker 1: bring you the article which we just pretty much did
30:30
Speaker 1: to death um. But if you want to see some
30:33
Speaker 1: pictures of heroin UM and a methodicted couple with their child,
30:37
Speaker 1: you can type in uh sterilized addicts at the handysearch
30:41
Speaker 1: bar house that works dot com which means it's time
30:43
Speaker 1: for listener mail. Not so it is time for uh
30:48
Speaker 1: what do we call it? Administrative detail and breaks on.
30:56
Speaker 1: That was a really good break sound chuck, Thank you,
30:59
Speaker 1: quick announced and everyone. We are coming to south By
31:01
Speaker 1: Southwest in Austin, Texas. Uh, you need a badge to
31:05
Speaker 1: get in to see us. We're even doing a live podcast.
31:07
Speaker 1: You need a gold or platinum level interactive badge. I
31:10
Speaker 1: think it's a Krypton level kryptonite. No it's not. But
31:15
Speaker 1: we're gonna be podcasting live regardless at the Drisco Hotel
31:19
Speaker 1: eleven am Monday, March fourteen, and we'd like you to
31:23
Speaker 1: come down and see us well podcast and then do
31:24
Speaker 1: a little Q and A. Plainly, we would like you
31:27
Speaker 1: to come see it. So it just come see us.
31:29
Speaker 1: What you what's your problem? It gets your hands on
31:31
Speaker 1: a badge, you can do it. Yeah, just take quick.
31:33
Speaker 1: Most of the people wearing the interactive badges are going
31:36
Speaker 1: to be pasty, maybe a little weak. Just get a badge, yeah, exactly,
31:40
Speaker 1: and we'll see you there all right, back to it, Yeah, okay.
31:43
Speaker 1: We like to take time every couple of months to
31:46
Speaker 1: thank people who send us gifts in the mail because
31:48
Speaker 1: it's a real nice thing to do. Sometimes people are
31:51
Speaker 1: plugging their little Etsy site. We'll plug that away. It's fine.
31:55
Speaker 1: Travis Local, Travis and Uh. Tickets to the Village Theater.
31:58
Speaker 1: You're in Atlanta, improv Yeah, and I haven't gone yet,
32:01
Speaker 1: but I got my ticket. We should go on the
32:03
Speaker 1: same night. Let's do it. But don't tell Jerry we'll
32:05
Speaker 1: double date. Okay, Okay, sounds good. Um. Let's thank Becca
32:10
Speaker 1: E and her two dogs, Frey and Freya for the
32:16
Speaker 1: homemade doggy treats that our dogs enjoyed. Yeah, mine are
32:18
Speaker 1: still enjoying them. I still have a few left. They
32:21
Speaker 1: love them. They're delicious. They're like Scooby Snacks, but me
32:24
Speaker 1: from home. Joey sent us personalized Ghostbuster shirts. Yeah, and
32:30
Speaker 1: it's it's like the tuxedo T shirt. It's as if
32:32
Speaker 1: you are wearing the Ghostbusters uniform. And it says Bryant
32:36
Speaker 1: on it. Clark that does it? Yeah, Okay, I thought
32:39
Speaker 1: it might say Roland. You says Roland because I think
32:43
Speaker 1: you got Jerry's I'm just kidding. Um. Stink Free Direct
32:46
Speaker 1: dot Com send us some nice over control stuff. Thank
32:49
Speaker 1: you very much for that. We actually need it. Uh,
32:54
Speaker 1: Mary Magenta, which has a she has a great name.
32:57
Speaker 1: She sent us homemade calendars and I have mine hanging
33:01
Speaker 1: up with my cube. I use it and tomorrow is
33:03
Speaker 1: full radish on my calendar, and I think that means
33:06
Speaker 1: full moon. Um. J Nolan of j nolan film dot
33:09
Speaker 1: Com sent home baked cookies. I guess we should say
33:13
Speaker 1: again that's J Nolan of J nolan film dot com.
33:16
Speaker 1: J a y cookie bribe. Tony from Wisconsin. He's a
33:21
Speaker 1: skinny and he sent us lovely drawing of a butterfly.
33:25
Speaker 1: And Tony I think is young because I think it
33:27
Speaker 1: was a crayon drawing, but it was you know, it's
33:29
Speaker 1: from the heart. Yeah. Um. VFP sent us a postcard
33:33
Speaker 1: from Dubai. Very nice send us each one, I believe. Yeah,
33:37
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we got to Kate and TC sent us
33:39
Speaker 1: a homemade Valentine of a t Rex holding a heart
33:43
Speaker 1: and it was we like how many stuf feels really cute? Yeah,
33:46
Speaker 1: Kate and TC. Victor sent us a postcard from Malta.
33:51
Speaker 1: Lindsay and Nick. They sent us a real picture. Yeah,
33:55
Speaker 1: it's been a while since I held a real picture
33:57
Speaker 1: like that of us with them. We met them at
34:00
Speaker 1: a Brooklyn trivia event and Nick, uh, I think it
34:03
Speaker 1: was Army was leaving to go to Afghanistan, I think
34:06
Speaker 1: the next day, and they took time to route themselves
34:09
Speaker 1: through Brooklyn to come to our trivia event and we
34:12
Speaker 1: met them both. And he is back in two days
34:15
Speaker 1: from today? Is that right? But he well, two days
34:19
Speaker 1: from the day she wrote the letter, right, I think
34:22
Speaker 1: he's back. I think he said high on the Facebook page.
34:24
Speaker 1: I think so he's back. He's definitely back by the
34:27
Speaker 1: time this is out. So Nick, glad you're back, safe
34:29
Speaker 1: and sound, buddy. Thanks for the picture, Lindsay and Nick Um. Well,
34:32
Speaker 1: you got a huge, awesome assortment of Christmas cookies from
34:36
Speaker 1: Mona Colon team. Oh yeah, Monus. And she's a big
34:39
Speaker 1: fan on the stuff you should Facebook page. Yeah, Monus,
34:42
Speaker 1: nice girl and she she sent us tons of Christmas
34:45
Speaker 1: cookies which were awesome. She's a lady. She's a lady. Uh.
34:52
Speaker 1: Joe Garden, our buddy, Joe Garden from the Onion definitely
34:56
Speaker 1: send us Onion T shirts and hoodies because he promised
34:59
Speaker 1: them months and months ago. And you can support Joe
35:02
Speaker 1: if you like funny things by buying his books, The
35:06
Speaker 1: Dangerous Book for Dogs, The Devious Book for Cats, and
35:10
Speaker 1: my favorite, the New Vampire's Handbook, a guide for the
35:13
Speaker 1: recently turned creature of the Night. And Joe writes these
35:16
Speaker 1: with other Onion writers and they're all obviously very funny.
35:18
Speaker 1: And speaking of the Onion, Chuck was used for a
35:21
Speaker 1: photo for an Onion article on a hunter being busted
35:24
Speaker 1: for not having a license. Right, so the the hunter
35:28
Speaker 1: becomes the prey. Yeah. Um, how could we not thank
35:33
Speaker 1: Aaron Cooper who made us some super cool Magnum p
35:37
Speaker 1: I T shirts with our images on them. That was
35:40
Speaker 1: actually a t shirt um contest submission. That was just
35:45
Speaker 1: so awesome he made him anyway, and send him to
35:47
Speaker 1: It's awesome. We couldn't use it. Yeah, licensing rights and
35:50
Speaker 1: all that. And Coop Wet We always think Coop just
35:52
Speaker 1: because his awesome photoshops because he saw the full metal
35:55
Speaker 1: Jack Owens. Yeah, that was pretty good. Yeah, and um
35:58
Speaker 1: off putting of course, Andrew and Janelle for their Christmas card,
36:02
Speaker 1: right yeah, Ben and Leah sent us a Christmas card
36:05
Speaker 1: to Abigail. She's a twelve year old who sent us
36:08
Speaker 1: four handwritten letters. And it's always nice to get a
36:11
Speaker 1: handwriten letter because it reminds me of being twelve years old.
36:15
Speaker 1: Emily's not my wife. Emily sent us fifteen. I'm sorry,
36:19
Speaker 1: she is fifteen, and she sent us a letter because
36:22
Speaker 1: her mom took her computer away because of overuse, so
36:26
Speaker 1: she had to write a letter. Tony and Hawaii sent
36:28
Speaker 1: us a handwritten letter as well. And Martin van Nostrin,
36:33
Speaker 1: of course of our best stuff ever. Yeah, he always
36:39
Speaker 1: sent us great stuff, bacon related things, CDs of comedians
36:43
Speaker 1: and weird bands, and he basically sent us a box
36:46
Speaker 1: call goodies from merch bot dot com, which he said,
36:50
Speaker 1: make sure you think merch bot support those guys. Yeah,
36:53
Speaker 1: merch bot dot com. Thanks to everybody sent us stuff,
36:56
Speaker 1: whether it was a postcard, a letter of bacon, tuxedo,
36:59
Speaker 1: what have you. We appreciate you. Um. If you want
37:03
Speaker 1: to go say hi to us, you can check us
37:05
Speaker 1: out on Facebook at facebook dot com slash stuff you
37:08
Speaker 1: Should Know. We also tweet at s y s K
37:11
Speaker 1: podcast and as always you can send us an email.
37:14
Speaker 1: Oh wait, good join our Kiva team k i v
37:17
Speaker 1: A dot org slash team slash Stuff you should Know
37:21
Speaker 1: and then you can always send us an email. Stuff
37:23
Speaker 1: podcast at how stuff works dot com For more on
37:29
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff
37:31
Speaker 1: works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, click
37:34
Speaker 1: on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of
37:36
Speaker 1: our homepage. The How Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived.
37:40
Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes, brought to you by the
37:46
Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you