Latest / Into The Mud Podcast / Ep. 90: Intoxication Is NOT Consent with Corinne Fisher

Transcript

Ep. 90: Intoxication Is NOT Consent with Corinne Fisher · Into The Mud Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Women are being hunted.
0:01
SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, predators know that this legal loophole exists, so they're going to hang out in places where you're getting drunk and are easier prey.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: Power control act that's an opportunity.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: The incredible current fishery.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Hello.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: In the mud.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna get fucking dirty today.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: A101 is a bill that would close a legal loophole that exists in all of New York State.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: This includes Ithaca, where Cornell University is, called the Voluntary Intoxication Exclusion.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Intoxication is not consent.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: I got really mad.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm really mad.
0:37
SPEAKER_03: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to End of the Mud Podcast.
0:40
SPEAKER_03: While others celebrate the wins, we celebrate the mud.
0:43
SPEAKER_03: I'm Alex Human.
0:44
SPEAKER_03: I'm Drew King.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: And we are here with the incredible Corinne Fisher today.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: Hello.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: Hi.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: In the mud.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna get fucking dirty today.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, indeed.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: You guys know Corinne from the Guys Be Fucked podcast, which is absolutely incredible and has been featured on literally every publication that has ever existed.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you looked at our the bio?
1:09
SPEAKER_00: You really stacked that.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, like every single one.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: We didn't want to miss anything.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: We want everyone to know.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: They should.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: It's an amazing podcast.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: You guys wrote a book.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: I remember reading the book when I first moved to the city.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh, we did, yeah.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: It was in the New York Comedy Club Green Room, and I was like, I'm gonna borrow this.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad someone looks at that mini library.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: That makes me so happy.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: I read it, and I was like, holy shit.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: And you returned it.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: That's very nice to give it back.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: I was like, someone else should read this.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: It's like a little it's a little community library about comp with comedy books.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: You are so well versed in everything that is uh anti-slut shaming and sex positivity, which is amazing.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: And you ran for New York City Mayor last year.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: I did.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Which was And that's the only right tone to say it in.
1:56
unknown: Yeah.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: And uh I'll tell you, wow.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: No, I remember hearing that and I was like, that is the coolest thing I've ever heard.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: What was like the drive for that?
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, my my big mouth.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: I was on Instagram Live, and you know how we just say things on Instagram live, make big proclamations.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if I had a shirt on when I said it.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like you guys wouldn't know that, but like I do a lot of Instagram living shirtless, and but it's the neck up is what you're seeing.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: And because that's when the best thoughts come out.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: And I said that if Donald Trump wins the presidential election again, that I'm going to run for some type of office.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: Good for you.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: That was the claim.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: And then I and then he actually won.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: And I said, damn it.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Damn it.
2:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I'm just a cannabis now.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, you like did it.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't know.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: You did it.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: You collected signatures.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I if I make a proclamation, I'm gonna back it up.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I gotta do it.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: I didn't expect it at the time to be mayor, but you know, I I got on a call with actually my manager and not like my campaign manager, my head of entertainment district.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Entertainment manager.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Manager.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: He's very smart, and I said, I'm really gonna do this.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: And we kind of went over together all the open seats in New York, or people who weren't doing their jobs.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: And just based on it, you would think Congress, but the the sitting congressman in my district at the now he's since been pushed out.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: It was Dan Goldman or is about to be.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: But uh at the time it looked like he was kind of unbeatable financially.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: And for me, I think he would have been unbeatable, right?
3:28
SPEAKER_00: But Eric Adams, as wild as it sounds, even though he was the sitting mayor, looked very beatable.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: And even though I wasn't the one to beat him, someone who started out as a small candidate that no one took seriously did beat him.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: So my theory was not incorrect.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: No, not I just didn't, I just wasn't the person to do it.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: But I'm glad someone did it.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: How many signatures do you need to get on the ballot again?
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh I forgot the exact.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like three thousand, a little over three thousand.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: And I got like almost seven thousand.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Great.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: And which is, you know, hard.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, Zoran got like 30,000, but she had an you know entire team back by the DSA, so I just didn't have that man and woman power.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: But I had a lot of people working with me, and it is extremely hard in a digital age to get that many signatures because people think, oh, just email people.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: I go, no, no, no, no.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: It has to be penage.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: Did you have to go like door to door?
4:21
SPEAKER_00: You can go door to door.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't find that to be the most successful.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: I think door to door is the most successful way to get people to vote for you.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: I'll say that people really don't.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: I got uh Zoran's people knocked on my door three separate times that I was home.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: It makes you feel like a little princess when some when an when an elected official, he didn't personally knock on my door any of the times, but even their team went when a candidate cares enough to visit your home and speak to you.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: You do like I I was running for an office at the time, and the person running for city council, he personally knocked on my door.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: And I probably would have voted for him anyway, but that really took it over the edge.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: It makes you feel like recording.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: I can I cannot reiterate enough if you're running for office and you have the ability to do that, you should do that.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: But no, for for signatures, we were going to like uh out outdoor places where there would be a lot of people.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, markets, uh, events, people like to stand outside parks.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: That one is tough for me as a fellow dog walker because you get hit every single time you go to the park.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: Can you set?
5:32
SPEAKER_02: No, I cannot.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I found and I found that if you just go up to people earnestly, I think I had an easier time as a candidate because when you say I'm running for mayor, people go kind of like you stop them in the in their tracks.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: And I I just approached people very genuinely.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, and if they were hesitant to sign, I said, This is not a promise you're voting for me.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: It's literally just the will of the people saying that she deserves a chance to tell us why she should be our mayor.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: That's all you're saying when you're signing a petition.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: It's true democracy at its finest.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's so annoying in in New York, you're always getting stopped uh to sign things.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: But I t I'll tell you, after running for mayor, I will never not stop and listen to someone spiel again.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Unless I know they're like 100% asking me for money just because I'm like, I I I can't I can't give money to every organization.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: It takes so much like courage and heart because people get angry, people will walk past, people ignore.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: God, it's gonna be thick skinned.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: Especially if you're opposed to the candidate that you're talking to.
6:36
SPEAKER_03: Reverend Manning was running for mayor.
6:38
SPEAKER_03: He owns the hate church that's up in Harlem, like two blocks away from my apartment.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: There's ones that's like I used to live in Harlem.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: I know exactly what you're talking about.
6:46
SPEAKER_03: Ah, Zeron Mondani's the devil.
6:48
SPEAKER_03: Like it was terrible.
6:48
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, he was running for mayor, and the sweetest people cornered me outside of Whole Foods one time.
6:53
SPEAKER_03: They were like, Are you registered to vote?
6:54
SPEAKER_03: Would you care to vote for us?
6:55
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Yeah, whatever, talk to me.
6:57
SPEAKER_03: I'll listen to your spiel.
6:58
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's nice.
6:59
SPEAKER_03: And they were like, It's for Reverend Manning.
7:00
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I'm so sorry.
7:02
SPEAKER_03: I gotta go.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gay is such a funny response.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: I can vote for him.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm gay.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: I know.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: I I I had to say no to signing Anthony Wiener's because of him being a sex offender.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean allegedly, I don't know if we have to use that.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: I gotta Yeah, I know, and alleged I'm gonna do it.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Because I he actually did a thing in the back of a coffee shop uh in my neighborhood.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: The assault or maybe that too.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: But he was uh, you know, he was in the back of a coffee shop trying to get people to vote for him for city council.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: And I went because I wanted to hear him speak because in preparing to run for mayor, I had read, I had watched every mayor documentary.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: And I gotta be honest, Wiener, if you haven't watched it and you're interested in politics at all, it is a political documentary masterpiece.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: And it'll make you so angry because Anthony Wiener could have easily been our mayor and he messed up the first time, right?
8:01
SPEAKER_00: The first fuck up.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: Basically, he could have gotten past that and still won easily.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: And then he he fucked up again.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: And it it almost seemed at a certain point, like, are you afraid of success?
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I said that to him like that.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: That was my opening line.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Some some bitch he's never met.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: I was like, What did you do?
8:19
SPEAKER_00: What happened here?
8:19
SPEAKER_00: I go, honestly, you could have so easily been mayor.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Like I basically said, You ruined your own life.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm really curious.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: That's actually such a good question.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: I was so irritated.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's like, get out of your own way.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: Because he really does know what he's talking about when he's talking about policy.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: That's why I want to see him speak because I was like, Well, if you you messed up your own career, I'm gonna learn from you and see what I can apply from your knowledge of uh policy.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: And he's just he is he's really great at rallying people.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Talking to him in the back of a coffee shop.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: If you have the charisma and the lack of ego to be able to talk to people in the back of a coffee shop the same way you would at a thousand-person rally, yeah, you're built for politics.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: And he really was.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: And he had great things to say about the neighborhood, but I was like, yeah, I mean, I can't.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't sign it.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: Come on, you couldn't have so much, but that's crazy.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Put that dig away.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: It's unfortunate.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: What were some of the things that you in your campaign, like and you're you're you're on the street, you're canvassing, you're talking to people.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: What were some of your like campaign ideals or foundations that you were talking to people about?
9:30
SPEAKER_00: My my one thing is like I was running as an artist, so one of my signature campaigns was basically kind of community-based.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: It was, it was being able to do charity work and get a tax break for it.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, this is something we would have had to build out with my, you know, staff of 17,000 people if I were mayor.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: But it was built on two things.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: Number one, giving back to the community, and number two, building a sense of community, which was something especially, I think Gen Z really lacks.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the male loneliness epidemic.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: It was getting out and getting to know your neighbor, which in such a populated city like New York seems like, oh, you would be surrounded by people all the time.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: But as we know, it can be one of the loneliest cities.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: It's and it's also doing that thing to uh relieve people of their financial stresses, but doing it not just giving them, you know, a hand.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm sounding like Republic now, just not just giving them a handout, but you're doing it by helping them give back.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think it helps bond families, it helps bond communities, and it's a win-win.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, it does kind of appease this more conservative mindset that is like, why are we just giving money that we don't have?
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Because when a lot of people were looking at the budget, well, for more leftist candidates, they were like, these are all great ideas, but how are we going to come up with this money?
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's like that's like number one, everyone's number one question.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: How are we gonna pay for it?
10:49
SPEAKER_00: And then something that people were talking back to me about, I would say younger voters, uh, Gen Z specifically, were most interested in climate change and the environment, which you don't really think about when you're running for a municipal position, because it's not climate change on the way that we see it nationally, but there are climate issues in urban areas.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: They mostly have to do with things like bus depots being concentrated in areas where uh predominantly black and brown people live.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: Like that's what I would call a climate issue in New York City.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I would tell back.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, because the pro problem is most people voting for mayor are really conflating like what a mayor does with what Congress does, with what a president does, with what different uh organizations do.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: Like the municipal responsibilities you have as a mayor are not very vast.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: Even most decisions that the city wants made, you're gonna have to get cleared in Albany.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: So it's not, you don't, you don't have like it wasn't so crazy to run for mayor as I think people thought.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: I go, I don't have that much power.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: I really just think you need someone who has charisma and star power that can rally the people of New York City behind them because you're gonna have to get things done as a team.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: You you really are like, it's it's a bit of a it's a bit of a star role, which is which is why we see Mayor Mom Dani succeeding so well because he does have star power.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: He does.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Do you think he's doing?
12:19
SPEAKER_02: How do you think what's your opinion on this performance?
12:22
SPEAKER_00: I think he's no, I think he's doing uh I think he's doing a good job.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't have a problem with what he's doing.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if we looked at the policies of all the candidates, the candidate at the time when I was running that I most agreed with, other than myself, obviously, would have been Jessica Ramos, but she ran a terrible campaign.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: She was disloyal in that she, after can she conceded the race, backed Andrew Cuomo.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: So everyone, especially women, felt that was a huge slap in the face.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm now friends with um I don't, I guess she Curtis Leela.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm well every everyone kind of likes him, and I go, yeah, like we like him, but I'm like, I again, guys, like, look at his policy.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: He is a Republican at the end of the day.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: I I love what he does for animal rights in New York City.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: And you know, we love that he's a character, but I I think it's one of these instances where it's like, remember what we did with Donald Trump?
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, I go, I let's not slip into that territory and not pretend this is someone who isn't seriously running for office all the time with a slew of bad ideas.
13:20
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, just because he's just because he's a fun character.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: He wears a beret, he's good to animals.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like we don't think he's going to win.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: I go, yeah, there's a lot of people we don't think are gonna win, and then they end up sliding past us.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: So pump the brakes a little bit.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: Have you always been like super like finger on the pulse of what's going on?
13:40
SPEAKER_02: No, no, when did that stop?
13:42
SPEAKER_00: I would say in my 20s, I I was someone, I mean, who, or maybe teen late teens, early 20s, was someone who got my news from the AOL welcome page, and it stopped there, you know.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: I would say honestly, I got uh most feverishly into politics during the 2016 election.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was really into Hillary Clinton.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: I was ex I think it was just exciting to see a woman who we really thought had a chance running.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: That was so exciting for me as a young woman.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: And at the time, I was actually, I had been dating someone for um like about a year.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: And when Donald Trump tossed his hat in the ring, my boyfriend, who I was already in a fully committed relationship, already in love with, was like, I love Donald Trump.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: And this was something that we had to work through, you know?
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Everyone was like, why didn't you jump on me immediately?
14:31
SPEAKER_00: I go, first of all, we don't, we didn't know what this was going to turn into.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: And secondly, like, please let's be serious.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: How many of us have been really happy, really maunded in a one plus year relationship in love?
14:46
SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden, someone says something, you know, kind of like, uh, like the or has an opinion that you're like, didn't expect that, don't love that, and they're just immediately dumping them.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, that doesn't practical, no, no, no.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Who's doing that?
15:00
SPEAKER_03: Are you still together with him?
15:01
SPEAKER_03: No my god, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
15:03
SPEAKER_03: Did he vote for Trump?
15:03
SPEAKER_00: He did vote for Trump.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to speak for what he did later.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: I I think he has since he has since uh perhaps seen that Donald Trump isn't who he hoped he would be.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: But like the things that I looked for in a relationship in the early stages were like, are you not homophobic because half of my friends are gay and we're gonna be at gay clubs?
15:22
SPEAKER_00: And he wasn't, and he did come to gay clubs with me and he was nice and had a good time and was respectful.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: And then, like, are you pro pro-choice because we're in a sexual relationship?
15:31
SPEAKER_00: And if I get pregnant at this stage in the game, I do not plan to keep the child, and that's something we need to agree on.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: So those are the two things I really look for.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: And then obviously things like, are you outwardly racist?
15:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, right, right.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes it takes a little more, you know, you're just like digging to see, you know, how people could perhaps be a part of like systemic racism.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: But that's like that's hard to unpack on a first on day one.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: Also, not to me about your role in white supremacy, like actively.
16:01
SPEAKER_03: What literature have you consumed to break this down?
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: But we're we'll get there, you know.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: I just can't get to everything day one.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Day one.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, you gotta space that out.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: And so that you know, but but that discourse and and especially having uh daily discourse with someone who I really disagreed with, that's honestly what really got me into it.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: And he had me reading all his new sources and I would send him articles.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: So I was like read taking in Breitbart.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna be like Breitbart, yeah, for sure.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: And everyone was kind of disgusted in my family and friend circles, but I it to me it opened up my mind and I thought it was really great.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: Not that I began believing those ideas, but I think it's really important to, if you want to defeat the other side, see how they think.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: That's how I've been reading a lot of lot more conservative news lately just to see like what what is it that that you're reading every day?
16:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: Like what are the points that you're standing on?
16:53
SPEAKER_02: Because I something I sometimes struggle with is when I'm talking to someone who is like a like solidly Republican.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I need to know how to like have this conversation without like without scream, like without like blowing up.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: That's that's not that's not getting us anywhere.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: But exactly sometimes it's hard to just like it's it's important to know the facts and know how to defend your opinions and your your standpoints.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's sometimes not everyone has all the facts.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: No, and you learn so much about people when you learn about their fears, which I think is primarily what the news cycle does.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: It's fear-mongering.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: And so when you look at the fears, like especially Fox, Breitbart's a little a little off the wall, but I will say Fox News, when you actually go to the website, the headlines are really clickbaity and rage baity.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: But when you read the actual articles, they are honestly filled with factual information.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: They're not, there's journalistic standards that these people must abide by legally.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: So you're not getting misinformation.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: What I find more is that they are cherry-picking information to feed their readers.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: So they're just not covering a lot of stuff, and they are overcovering things like bad things trans people do.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: One of their favorite topics.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a very small amount.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: This immigrant took your job.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: No, he didn't.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: There's a small amount of those articles, but they're finding them all.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: And so when you place them in the way that they do, it seems like it is some type of trans immigrant takeover.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: The the battleground ends up being like misinformation ends up crossing barriers with common ground fears.
18:31
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
18:31
SPEAKER_03: Because it's like, okay, yes, at the end of the day, we all more or less have the same universal fears.
18:36
SPEAKER_03: Republican, libertarian, democrat, whatever it is.
18:39
SPEAKER_03: They're just framed in a different way by the media stations.
18:41
SPEAKER_03: So, like, yes, at the end of the day, as a parent, you just want your kid to be safe and have the best access to healthcare and know that they're gonna grow up, be safe, and healthy.
18:48
SPEAKER_03: There you go.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: Right.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: We all want that.
18:50
SPEAKER_03: But then some, you know, Republican leading news stations will be like, yes, but it's the trans community and it's gender reassignment surgery that's gonna ruin them and fuck them up.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: And so that's why they're freaking out.
19:00
SPEAKER_03: And then from our perspective, it's you know, from the the blue side, it's like, oh, well, if I have a daughter, I need to make sure that she actually has access to reproductive health care.
19:08
SPEAKER_03: Right.
19:09
SPEAKER_03: And then they're like, wow, that's wrong.
19:10
SPEAKER_03: So it's but it it really is all the same common ground fears, which is always what blows my mind.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we do, yeah, we want the same things.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: We are really aren't that different, but it's so easy to monetize the ways in which we are.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: And God bless America, they found a way.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: They really did.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: I need to start smoking a fake cigarette.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: That sounds fun, it doesn't matter.
19:34
SPEAKER_03: It's also when you're like the like the grumpy grandpa who's like the back the back ash tap.
19:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: Um well, speaking of a back ash tap, um perfect transition.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: That was so good.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: It was perfect transition.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: We wanted to talk about, we've been obviously right now the Cornell gang rape story has has resurfaced from a couple years ago.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: And you were actually one of the first people I saw talking about this.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: And you, I think you're someone who does such a good job of like taking some of the information that comes from a more like high political place and like alchemizing it into like bite-sized, like edible pieces that like people can understand.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: It's the number one thing to do if you're run if anyone wants to run for office.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: But you gotta break it down basically three things you're gonna give the people, which Mayor Mom Donnie did did quite well because people can only remember three things, and you gotta keep repeating the same things.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: And about 50%, if not more, of your job as a candidate will be educating constituents on the voting process, on what your job role actually entails, and on what power they have.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a teaching background, by the way?
20:43
SPEAKER_00: No, but my I was raised by a teacher, and I think it really shows.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: It does.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: It does.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, you just know how to talk about this stuff.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: And so we wanted to talk a little bit today about Bill A101.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: You know, I come from a sexual violence prevention background and was talking to Christina, your your podcast host about it, and she was like, You guys should connect on this because she's doing all this like mobilizing politically.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: And and that was so cool to me because I think in terms of like what to do, I think right now, as we are, you know, I'm already seeing people stu like take their foot off the gas on this thing.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: Like there was such collective outrage as as there should have been last week about it.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I'm already seeing it kind of disappear from feeds and and everything.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, when you stop getting the the views as a political influencer, uh you have to move on to something else.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's not great.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: Between the Cornell case and the LSU case, and uh pick whichever one you want, because there's a new one every goddamn week.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: There is.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: We have yet again seen this conversation come to the forefront.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: And I want to talk a c about a couple things.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: But first of all, the bill that you are helping to to pass or or starts trying to push through, and then also like what we can do to start mobilizing on uh Uh more community level about preventing sexual violence.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, so let's start with a bill.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: We'll start with a bill A101.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, A101 is a bill that would close a legal loophole that exists in all of New York State, not just New York City.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: So this includes Ithaca, where Cornell University is.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: And that legal loophole is called called the voluntary intoxication exclusion.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Right now in New York State, if you are sexually assaulted while you are incapacitated, you can only prosecute your rapist as a rapist if you involuntarily ingested drugs or alcohol, meaning someone roofed you, someone force fed them to you, someone gave you something that was laced.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, these are the options.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: They're kind of like cinematic options, meaning this is not how rape most often takes place, where someone comes out of the bushes and gives you a secret thing, sprinkles something in your drink.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not saying people aren't getting roofied, people are getting roofied all the time.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: I've been roofied.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh obviously that's why all these things to check your drink exist for women, whether it be nail polish or drink covers.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: But when we're talking about sexual violence, inter intimate partner violence, a lot of times you're being raped by someone you know.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: The vast majority.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: And they're waiting.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: They're not trying, you know, it's harder to rape someone if I tried to rape you right now.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a lot harder than if you had had five drinks, right?
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: I think it's very clear, and it's not just women, but it is mostly women.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: Women are being hunted, okay?
23:38
SPEAKER_00: When a lot of times when you are raped, you are being hunted.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: People, I'm not saying like someone made a like a syllabus, like things I'm gonna do today, and one was rape, but it is someone who has the predisposition to take sexual control over women.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: It's a power control access and opportunity.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Like that's what it is.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's a power and control thing, and then it is this oh, it's an opportunity that's presented to me, and I can do this right now.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: It's much easier in a bar.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: And people, and the thing is, predators know that this legal loophole exists, so they're going to hang out in places where you're getting drunk and are easier prey.
24:16
SPEAKER_03: And easier to victim blame.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: It's your fault.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: You got you voluntarily, chose drugs or alcohol.
24:21
SPEAKER_03: It's yours.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: And so all Bill A101 does, it's such a little paragraph of language.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: All it's doing is adding to incapacitation.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: They're saying it can be voluntary or involuntary.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: So if you got blackout drunk because you got blackout drunk, or if you got blackout drunk because someone put uh something in your drink, you can be protected legally under either circumstance.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: That's the whole, that's the whole bill.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: It's it's this, it's this much language.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: So just trying to push through and change it.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: And they're just we're just trying to say intoxication is not consent and should not be, it should not be legally recognized that you can uh uh consent while you are incapacitated.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, a great example to use is that if you were to sign a contract in this same condition, it would not be legally binding.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we already have laws in place that cover this for other circumstances.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: And I I also read that that the the level of intoxication, like it's like the what they mean, like incapacitation, unless you are like passed out drunk.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: Like they're like, if you're still able to like stand, if you're like stumbling while you walk, if you are slurring your words, it's that's still not considered like complete incapacitation under this guideline, which is also insane to me because it's like if you we've all seen I've been that person before.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's drank has had uh one or two nights or maybe more where they're that person.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: Where you're just like, and to think about like, no, you were you were able to say yes.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: It's like it's so wild to me.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: And I remember as uh when I did my prevention education, we would have conversations with kids in middle school and high school and colleges and universities and educators about like just what these laws were.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: I think it's so important for people to understand what the laws are too, because in the state of Illinois, you cannot legally consent to sex under the influence of drugs or alcohol, but it's different in New York, and it's different.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: You said 23 states.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, our advocacy group is going with like there is legal language in uh as many as 23 states that is something similar to the voluntary intoxication.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: Again, you'd have to go state by seat for the language, but something similar basically.
26:31
SPEAKER_03: I I I quickly want to clarify.
26:32
SPEAKER_03: So A101 does currently exist as a bill, you're working to amend it, correct?
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Um so be A101 it close closes the loophole.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: It is it's like the it's the addendum.
26:43
SPEAKER_03: So what's the what's the actual name of the official bill then?
26:47
SPEAKER_00: We just refer to it as the voluntary intoxication exclusion.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: It's very hard because when you start giving out names, yeah.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: I think like just that's it's just the legal loophole that exists.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:57
SPEAKER_03: What is the root of that original bill?
27:00
SPEAKER_03: Do you know the history of it?
27:01
SPEAKER_03: Because because we live in the narrative right now of victim blaming and then also being like, oh, those poor guys, we're gonna ruin their life.
27:09
SPEAKER_03: Like, was that the reason why that bill was founded?
27:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm so cute, yeah.
27:13
SPEAKER_03: We can look it up.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm curious because we can go around our history is there are some people who refer to it as the ruins drunk sex bill.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: That's what like it feels like for some reason, it feels like there is a level of like misogyny and/or patriarchy in like and protect the boys subtext of that bill.
27:32
SPEAKER_03: That's why I am curious about it.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I am I'm curious about that as well.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, let's look this up real quick.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, go ahead.
27:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's just like my fear is like was it like some politician in the 70s who was like, oh, my nephew got accused of rape because that girl was blackout drunk?
27:46
SPEAKER_03: And I want to probably I want to make sure that those boys are protected now.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting because when we're looking into that, I mean, obviously that is a fear I feel like I feel like we somehow, even though statistically it's a much slimmer chance, hear so much more about the fear of people being, you know, wrongly accused of rape.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: When you look at it, I'm not gonna say that it's zero.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: I I researched it, it's about five percent of rape rap slash sexual assault accusations come to be known as false.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Pretty low number.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Whereas when you look at lifetime prevalence of being raped for a woman, about a little over one in five women will be raped in the US during her lifetime, which about 21% or so exactly.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Kind of the people who are the most underreported crime.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: And we know why, you know.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh, did we get to the root of it?
28:34
SPEAKER_00: I did want to uh reply to your thing.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there was no interesting story.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of why I didn't interact earlier.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: It is um it's something that was influenced by the 1962 model penal code, but like it's just like something that's from the 60s, but there was great another one.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: I know there wasn't like a story or a case that specifically influenced it.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: I guess maybe it was like 60s, they were like, this free love's getting too free.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Well say that.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: We gotta shut this thing down.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: To your point, it's absolutely bonkers how many people are like, but what if I'm what if I'm wrongly accused?
29:13
SPEAKER_02: And it's like there's it's again, it's it's we're we're having this conversation way too late.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: Like, if if that's the thing you're concerned about versus let me make sure that I'm never in a situation where consent could be questioned.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, like, why are we not having the conversation with young people starting early?
29:35
SPEAKER_02: That's like, how do you know you're getting an enthusiastic yes?
29:40
SPEAKER_02: And and not this like murky, like, I'm not sure.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: Because if the answer is I'm not sure if this person wants to have sex with me, I'm not sure.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Then you walk out of the room.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, then you walk out of the room.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: But we are not teaching that to anyone.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: And that's like le like that's like a legal conversation about it.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: I I also want to go into an emotional conversation about it because just if I'm the man and and I ask someone, do you want to have sex?
30:05
SPEAKER_00: And they say, I don't know, that doesn't make me want to have like I'll tell you what, I'm not getting wet over that.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: You don't know?
30:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay, well then let me go find someone who does.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I and I think, you know, we when we talk about prevention or having these conversations, I think a big and it almost seems dumb to have this with, you know, possibly adult men, but like we need to have a broader conversation about rejection and how to not take it personally, how to not take it as a personal failure, you know?
30:37
SPEAKER_02: One of the things that we did, so we did social emotional learning starting with kindergartners.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: And then we would we would intertwine that with everything that we did.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: But with kindergartners, you start by it's emotion recognition and management in yourself and others, right?
30:52
SPEAKER_02: So, what does it feel like when you're happy and how does that look?
30:54
SPEAKER_02: And show me a smile.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: And what does it feel like when you're angry or sad or scared?
30:58
SPEAKER_02: And how do you identify that in other people?
31:00
SPEAKER_02: And that is education that nobody gets.
31:03
SPEAKER_02: Nobody's getting that.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: But what it would teach them, and as we would get older, you start to give them more and more, you know, you know, dip difficult scenarios of like, what would you do in this case?
31:12
SPEAKER_02: But it teaches them how to handle disappointment and it teaches them how to handle rejection.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: So what happens?
31:17
SPEAKER_02: So a third grader, what happens if you want to play with a toy that someone else is using?
31:21
SPEAKER_02: What do you do?
31:22
SPEAKER_02: You ask them, you ask them if you can use it.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: And what happens if they say no?
31:25
SPEAKER_02: You don't take it from them.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: It's these conversations early and often, all the time, with everyone that are missing from the conversation.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: And then we're confused about why we have an entire society full of a lot of men, as particularly men who we've told, do not show emotion, do not show fear, do not cry, do not the only acceptable emotion for you to show is anger.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: And then we get confused about why we're having like this male loneliness epidemic or like incels or like men who are like, I want it and I'm gonna take it no matter what.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah, because we haven't taught a single person in our society how to ask politely for what you want and how to walk away if that person says no.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: So it's like, I just get so frustrated that we keep these stories keep coming up, and rather than looking at, and this is the thing with prevention, nobody ever wants to fund prevention because you can't, you often don't know if it works.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: Like that was the hardest thing with our job.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: They'd be like, Well, show us that that your programs are effective.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: It's like someone didn't get raped.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to quantify that.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: No news is good, news.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: No news, right?
32:31
SPEAKER_03: That means it's working.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: And so that's the American way, too.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, when you think about it, the fact that we like only had TSA after 9-11, before that, they were just letting us get on the plane with anything willy-nilly.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: That's in the raise wild.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: I think about every time I know I go, the the I go, it is but actually bananas.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: No one thought someone could do some real damage in the air.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's it's we're insane.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: This small where we're you know, our elected officials are the smartest, the best, going to Ivy League schools.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: What did you learn there?
33:00
SPEAKER_00: What did you learn?
33:01
SPEAKER_00: And how can we apply it?
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: It's so alarming.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: I think about that all the time.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, and I think additionally with prevention, it's also what has value and stu and status in in society.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, part of the reason that this exists, like obtaining sex, how no matter how you get it from a from a woman, as if it's something like, you know, fully transactional, has a lot of status in male areas.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think a conversation about like how can we like make Greek life a little bit safer uh for women and also safer as far as not having this toxic masculinity.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's stories all the time about men dying in hazings.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: I went to UW Madison.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: There was just a story like two or three weeks ago.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: This frat, you know, yet another frat house.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: There's a picture.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: It's like, it's like a probably like 20, like 20 guys shirtless in a basement with like blindfolds and their, you know, their faces are like like blurred out.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: But yet another like hazing incident where they walk downstairs, it's like the heat's turned up.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: Just like the smell, and it's like, what is it that we're doing here?
34:18
SPEAKER_02: It's again, it's these like it's like this testing your strength in your masculinity.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: It's like masculinity.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: It's like how it's like, okay, and that's masculine how?
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Like like it's just, I think we we still look at like anything feminine is weak.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: And I think until that changes, then this is this is all still gonna remain a problem.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: And it's also like for uh fraternity is supposed to, it's not a masculinity club, it's a brotherhood, it's a brotherhood.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: And so when we talk about brotherhood, like what is brotherhood, I I don't think it's putting condiments on each other.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's like, you know, when we talk about sexual assault stories, men on men, I don't think it's about uh for you sodomizing, you know, someone's not about which is another story that came out of Cornell, I believe, when they were like kind of like, let's look through the files of things that have happened in Greek life that people didn't want to be happening.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's uh I think when you it's when you see a text message uh in your 57-person group chat about someone planning to get a woman to gangbang, you know, so it was planned, it was premeditated, that you say, Hey guys, I don't think this is really what Kai-Fi is about.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: Hey brothers, hey fellas, yeah, hey my boys.
35:32
SPEAKER_02: Let's rethink this.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: Why don't we just go to a football game instead?
35:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
35:37
SPEAKER_03: Of course, there's there's a thousand and one alarming things with this entire circumstance regarding the Cornell 7, but that is that's the one that like really sticks out to me is that like, how did nobody step in?
35:47
SPEAKER_03: How did not a single person?
35:48
SPEAKER_03: I know that this is a um I'm yelling into the echo chamber here, but like, how did no one no one step in?
35:55
SPEAKER_03: And then sidebar, I saw this Instagram reel the other day where it was an uncle who said that he got a text message from his niece, who is a freshman at college, and said that she was at a party and they were like a bunch of guys, they were all upstairs on a balcony, and her and her girlfriends were downstairs like out in the back patio.
36:15
SPEAKER_03: Okay, guys upstairs didn't know that the girls downstairs were outside and could hear them.
36:20
SPEAKER_03: And they were like, Oh, these are my peers, these are my friends that I just met this week in like being in college, and the guys were talking about the Cornell 7 case, and their old their only takeaway from it was, Whoa, those guys must have had the best night of their life.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: And so this girl was texting her uncle being like, I'm really scared, I'm really upset.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, these are people who I thought were my friends that I just made bonds with this like first two, three weeks of school.
36:44
SPEAKER_03: And you would so I of course, like we a lot of us are asking the question, why didn't anyone say anything in that group, in that Snapchat thread?
36:51
SPEAKER_03: But then to hear something like that, another story told, where I'm sure there are plenty of men around the nation who were like, Oh, that's hot, good for them.
37:00
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, fuck.
37:01
SPEAKER_02: Or there's plenty of men who feel that, and then everyone else in that circle was a good guy who's like, Well, I don't really agree with what he's saying, but if I step up now with this new group of people that I just met two.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: Oh, for sure.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: I think that's what the majority is.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: I think there's, I mean, there's I think there's a lot of real shitheads out there, but I think there's also a lot of people who just kind of don't care.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: They don't care, which is apathy to me is like, well, that's real hard to deal with.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:27
SPEAKER_03: But in that circumstance, anyone speaking out would have been betraying the brotherhood.
37:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:31
SPEAKER_03: That's where they live, that's where their friends are, that's a social group, that's their like social currency as well, especially on a university campus.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:38
SPEAKER_03: It's absurd.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I I think also at we know being female stand-up comedians, uh, I think I'm, you know, we're almost more qualified to talk about something like this because we unfortunately hear the way men speak unfiltered more often than the average woman.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: I would say at 41, I the a 41-year-old woman for the most part is not around the amount of adult men speaking unfiltered that I am, that you are.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's a real wake-up call, but a but a bad one.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: It's it's not good.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: And I take in, I listen, and then every Monday I report back on guys we fucked the conversations I've heard.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: And I tell people this.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: I say, just so you know, I'm like, I'm not naming you, but I'm like, I'm reporting back every bad thing that I hear because I think sometimes women just think I want to be like a buzzkill, or like, I've decided I don't like men, so now everyone shouldn't like men.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: No, that's not at all.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: I wish I had something better to report back to you.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: I really well.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: What's even crazier too is like that's the stuff they would say in front of you.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: That's the stuff they're willing to say in front of another woman.
38:54
SPEAKER_02: What is the stuff they're not saying?
38:56
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
38:57
SPEAKER_02: Way worse.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: And or like not saying to our faces.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: It's just it is yet another story.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: The LSU one, too.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: Um Kendall Francis, where he was, he admitted to it, and then the judge that overturned it was like, I do agree that this was forcible rape, but we are just gonna lower the sentence to um probation, and so he will still be able to be on campus and do play sports and do everything, but but don't misbehave.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:25
SPEAKER_02: And this behavior goes so unchecked and unexcused that it's like, I think men see it and are like, great, I'll keep doing whatever I want.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: And women see it and are like, uh, what's even the point of fighting back anymore?
39:36
SPEAKER_02: And that's not even to mention like trans people who are so left out of the conversation but experience sexual violence at such a higher rate than everyone.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: It's just it like makes me, I want to know, like, how do we like keep this conversation going?
39:50
SPEAKER_02: How do we like, how does this not become a thing that just like falls into the shadows again?
39:55
SPEAKER_00: This is uh that's one thing I've made good on.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: I've been talking about this for at this point 13 years, pretty much every week.
40:03
SPEAKER_03: And working on actionable change.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, very much, no, truly very much.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: I was called in to do this.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I guess someone someone heard when I conceded, you know, because when you're uh when you're actively running, these nonprofits are not allowed to engage with you.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: But as soon as I conceded, I got a call that's like, help with this voluntary intoxication exclusion loophole.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, please help close this.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Wow, finally, I can use my talents.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: I can got let's talk about rape.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I think it's like, yes, keeping it in the like in the zeitgeist at other times besides when there is a seven-person gangbang rape case at a major institution, you know, this is not Paris Hilton's new cookware line.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: This is a an epidemic that is happening, especially on campuses.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we don't I don't have to remind people to go back if you haven't seen it, if you're younger, if you missed it, and watch the 2015 documentary, The Hunting Round, that called this, you know, over a decade ago as the problem that it was.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: The thing is, universities are kind of like their own little states in that they have their own Senate, they have their own protocol.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: And when you're reporting to, in this instance, like she reported to Cornell police, who are a real police department.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: It's not like they're mall cops or something.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: It is a real police department.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: But when the only policing you're doing is on the campus for a high-level rich institution, um, I'm guessing that some of the decisions you are going to be making are going to be quite biased.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's like if this is the only place you're policing, who are you gonna worry about?
41:46
SPEAKER_00: This one Jane Doe who came to you one time, or the institution that writes your checks that you're gonna have to interact with every day for the remainder of your career.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: And this, and this seven families and 57 families of the frat boys who are third or fourth generation frat brothers at that school.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: And yeah.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Quickly, what I wanted to, what I wanted to piggyback on before we even like move on more is when we were talking about Kendall Francis and the judge laying down the law.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: I also think that judges and also society, when they look at what the lifetime repercussions of being raped versus being an accused or convicted rapist are, they almost see the repercussions of being accused or convicted of rape as worse because they are things that we can see.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: They are the job you won't get, the promotion you won't get, the person who won't date you.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: Whereas the repercussions of being raped are mostly psychological and therefore hidden from the public.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: The jobs you won't get because you're too afraid to go out in public, the relationships you won't be in because you don't feel worthy, or have such a disconnected relationship with your body that you don't know how to have sex with people.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: We've talked about it a bit on this podcast.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: And those will be classified as like, oh, she just couldn't get over it.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: She just couldn't move on.
43:03
SPEAKER_02: It's the minimizing.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: She's mentally ill.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: She's crazy.
43:06
SPEAKER_02: She's been crazy since the rape.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: We minimize so much the effects of sexual violence and what it does when you just shatter the only thing that you can call home.
43:14
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: And I that is like and it's crazy too.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: Every time one of these stories comes out, the wave of women coming out and saying, This happened to me at this age, this happened to me at this age, I've never said this before.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: I've never it everybody knows someone who's been assaulted or experienced sexual violence.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: And it's just the impact cannot be understated.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: I want to ask you both, because I know that this is like, it's such a a massive part of every single conversation when this keeps coming up again.
43:43
SPEAKER_03: Is the defense that so many people make when they say, like, well, why did it take her so long to report it?
43:48
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
43:48
SPEAKER_03: Why one, two, three, four, ten, twelve years later did it take them this long to report it?
43:53
SPEAKER_03: Which is a good thing.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: Oh, Megan Kelly.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
43:55
SPEAKER_03: I'm quite literally, I'm literally referencing Megan Kelly.
43:59
SPEAKER_03: Also, what?
44:00
SPEAKER_03: Roger Ailes, how long did it take you to report that, girl?
44:04
SPEAKER_03: It's just like we all know us as like bleeding blue.
44:07
SPEAKER_03: Like we we, especially having friends in our community who have experienced sexual assault, we understand why people delay and why people do not come forward and they do not report.
44:17
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
44:17
SPEAKER_03: What would you want to say to people who do always retort back with that?
44:22
SPEAKER_03: Well, being like, well, then why did they wait now?
44:24
SPEAKER_03: Why is it now a civil suit where they're pursuing damages and a financial um compensation for you know what I mean?
44:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like people always think a civil suit is come some type of money grab, but a civil suit is how they frame it is many times because the criminal justice system fails you, and the only lawsuit you could file was a civil lawsuit.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: That's why people do that.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: It's not a money grab.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: Like that's why this particular lawsuit that Jane Doe has filed for Cornell is civil.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like she couldn't file the criminal lawsuit.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, because it was a mess, it was handled messily, but also because of the voluntary intoxication exclusion that exists in New York.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: And she said, I voluntarily consumed alcohol and she did ketamine voluntarily as well.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, at certain points, like if you're blackout, drunk, and doing ketamine, are you doing it voluntarily?
45:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no, she wasn't able to find justice through the criminal lawsuit, which is why she moved to the civil.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: The civil is like, let's try this.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, like if someone harms you, you want them to be found criminally liable.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: That's much juicier than being found civilly liable.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: But when you can't get justice, America has decided that will throw you a chunk of uh dollar bills and hopefully that'll heal.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, and the psychological delay too.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: Like there is actual shock.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: Your system goes through a shock.
45:44
SPEAKER_02: And you're in literal shock.
45:46
SPEAKER_02: Like your body was attacked, you're in trauma, you're having PTSD.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: You might not recognize the short or long-term effects immediately.
45:52
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
45:52
SPEAKER_02: And then that's and it might take a little while.
45:54
SPEAKER_02: It also might take a little while because we don't fucking know how to talk about sex.
45:59
SPEAKER_02: We don't have the language around.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: That's for sure.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: We don't we don't know how to talk about consensual sex.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: When and we put shame around consensual sex.
46:05
SPEAKER_02: So non-consensual sex becomes an even more difficult conversation because it's like, well, I don't even I I blush when I say the word penis.
46:13
SPEAKER_02: So how am I gonna tell this police officer who doesn't believe me that seven penises entered me vaginally?
46:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: If saying that phrase is something that I literally cannot get out of my throat.
46:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:24
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, would you think it's easy to report this?
46:27
SPEAKER_02: One of the things that our medical advocates used to do was train police officers on how to talk to survivors of sexual violence.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: That's great, actually.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: It was amazing.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: It was amazing.
46:37
SPEAKER_02: It's why we need to fund nonprofit work and keep the Violence Against Women Act and Victims of Crime Act funded, because that's how these programs get funded.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: But one of the things that they would do was ask everyone at the beginning of the training to think about your last sexual encounter, who it was with, how it started, how who initiated where you touched them, where you were touched, where you were penetrated, how frequently, how long did it last, every single detail.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: And then they would kind of be very uncomfortable with that, and then you know, people in the audience, uh obviously uncomfortable with that, and then they would say, Okay, now um turn to the person to your left and tell them everything that you just wrote down.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: And people would bristle and be like, Well, I'm not saying that.
47:18
SPEAKER_02: And that is how we would frame the conversation around please keep that in mind as we are talking about someone coming to you to report sexual violence, a non-consensual act, sure, where you are asking them all these questions and they're having to talk to a stranger about it multiple times, potentially in the same day or night that it happened, where they also are having trouble remembering things linearly, or maybe they're laughing because that's the their body in shock and that's not the like so it's it's That's a great answer, Alex.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: I just thank you.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: I've done this one twice.
47:53
SPEAKER_02: We have to wrap up, but I have one more question for you.
47:55
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
47:56
SPEAKER_02: For people who want to get involved, for people who are like, I want to do more.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: How do people who have never really organized politically?
48:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, what is like the first step to like getting involved in a in your local organization, your local politics to get change done?
48:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't think there's like one d step that is correct and other ones are wrong.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: I always say there's so many things, especially if you're someone who wants to get involved, I think the first step you need to take is because we are so inundated by causes and things that we have to care about and things that the left is like, if you don't care about this, you're a bad person, which I I don't think is the right way to approach it, but that's just me.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:31
SPEAKER_00: I always say pick one or two things that you are really interested and passionate about that you want to work a little bit every day, every week to change.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Number one, I think it's good because then we'll actually see change.
48:45
SPEAKER_00: Because with this, this world that we live in now, it's just like kind of the news cycle.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: It's like this week we care about rape.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: Next week we care about genocide, this week we care about animals.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: Like it's like, okay.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: It's not saying that you don't care about the other things.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: That's not the point I'm making.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: There will be enough, like if you're putting a like a like a little like a MM in each pie, in each class or whatever, each class will be full, I assure you.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: There are people with varied interests, okay?
49:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm putting all my MMs in the rape glass.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: And so for me, yeah, I'm just like my thing that I care about, and also because my my like entertainment work aligns with it is primarily with women's issues.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: And then my second tier is animal advocacy.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm on the board of Funny for FIDO.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: I do a lot of like animal rescue work, animal advocacy.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: So those are the two things I'm interested in.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: It's not that I'm not interested in other things, I just concentrate on those and I can get real work done because I spend a lot of time focused on those things.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: People know at this point to call me if they are having an issue in either one of those glasses.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's like finding out what you're interested and passionate in and which you can really devote time to.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: And then the second thing is like there's a section of your life when you probably have a lot of time to give and not a lot of money to give.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: And then there's a time in your life, hopefully, when you'll have money, but maybe you won't have as much time.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: So both of those are really great ways to make an impact.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: Places always need money and places always need time.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: So pick one of those.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: You probably don't have to do both, but make sure that you're actively always giving a little time or actively always giving a little money.
50:20
SPEAKER_00: If you have neither to give, don't feel bad about that either.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, you can look at an organization in your neighborhood.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: I think that's good.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like the same thing we want to shop locally, eat locally.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: I think we want to participate in our community locally and realize that there are all these big issues, the ones that Congress are handling, the ones that we see in the headlines.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but I feel like a lot of times if it's gotten to a national platform, you as an individual, you're not gonna be able to have the biggest impact.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like out of your, it's out of your hands.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: And the the way you can impact that change is how you vote.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: But if you want to like actually uh affect local change and local legislation, start on a municipal level, that's where the corruption is festering, but hasn't festered so out of hand that you as an individual community organizer can't impact it yet.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: Get to the problem before it starts.
51:14
SPEAKER_00: Is not it's not as exciting.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: It's not in the headlines.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: It's maybe a cause your friends and family haven't heard of before.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, picking up trash at the beach isn't as exciting as unpacking the Epstein files, but like, but we got I don't think you personally are going to be able to unpack the Epstein files.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: And I again, it's like, do you do you want to help because you want to get something done, or do you want to help because you want to look like you're a helper?
51:40
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: And be honest with yourself about that.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: I I'm not pretending I don't want to be famous.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: I do, but I actually want to get things done.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: I am I that's why I'm I'm rearranging my schedule to talk to anyone about Bill A101.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: That's how much I want to do it.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: Can people call?
51:57
SPEAKER_00: Can people call Yeah, call Carl Hasty.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: That's the that's the head of the assembly who is just holding the vote.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: We have the bipartisan support to push this through.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: It's we have it.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: We have it.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: He's just not calling it to the floor.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: He is just holding out on purpose.
52:14
SPEAKER_03: We have the number, we'll we'll drop that number of the anger in the box.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: Carl Hasty, you can call his office in the Bronx, you can call his uh office in Albany, you can uh email him.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: And if it makes you angrier and angry and anger motivates you, he allegedly said, buddy found it.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't have enough angry women in my office to care about this.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: I heard about that.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, let them know that you actually do have enough angry women and men.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: Men, please support us on this if it, you know, even if it doesn't personally affect you.
52:42
SPEAKER_03: Support your brothers first, though.
52:44
SPEAKER_03: Men first, just to be very clear.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: Internal fraternity primaris.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: And call your assembly members, you know?
52:51
SPEAKER_00: Again, the DSA are holds outs on this too.
52:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to throw the DSA under the bus.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: They do a lot of great work, but the DSA is against this because they're abolitionists and they think that it's gonna disproportionately affect black and brown men.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: And to that I say the criminal justice system is, of course, inherently racist.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: But on the flip side, if you want to protect black and brown communities, black and brown women are also disproportionately affected by rape.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: 29% of black women will be raped during their lifetime, 48% of multiracial women, about 43% and change percent of indigenous women.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: So don't even talk to me about that.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: Why is it?
53:27
SPEAKER_00: It's always like selective.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: It's just like black and brown brown women always get the shit end of the stick in every single situation.
53:34
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: So I'm so tired.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: That's not a valid excuse, right?
53:37
SPEAKER_00: We can reform the criminal justice system and the prison system without making survivors suffer in silence.
53:45
SPEAKER_03: Period.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: I know you need to end.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, yeah.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: I got really mad.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: I got really mad.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm really mad.
53:51
SPEAKER_02: Send you to his office.
53:52
SPEAKER_02: Send you to his office.
53:53
SPEAKER_03: Carl Hasty, you'll be hearing from all of us and our listeners.
53:56
SPEAKER_02: Carl's so sick of me.
53:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, good.
54:00
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
54:01
SPEAKER_02: That was amazing.
54:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, we'll link all of your information, your handles and guys we fucked, and anything else that you want to plug into our episode.
54:10
SPEAKER_02: But thank you.
54:11
SPEAKER_02: That was awesome.
54:12
SPEAKER_02: It might be your parties.
54:14
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
54:15
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
54:16
SPEAKER_03: Oh my God, I love it.
54:17
SPEAKER_03: Congrats.
54:18
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for you know using your your time on your podcast to talk about this.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: It's important.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: We love it.
54:25
SPEAKER_03: It's important.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: We gotta do it.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for watching.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: All right, thanks everybody.
54:28
SPEAKER_03: Like, follow, subscribe, and go do some municipal work out there.
54:33
SPEAKER_03: Support your your local your local municipality.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: Locally, November 3rd.
54:37
SPEAKER_03: Yes, November 3rd.
54:39
SPEAKER_03: Get out there.
54:40
SPEAKER_03: We love you all.
54:40
SPEAKER_03: Okay, bye.
54:41
SPEAKER_03: Bye.