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Are cops close to finding the Long Island Serial Killer? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
0:10
Speaker 1: one two. We could have a serial killer. We've all
0:19
Speaker 1: heard of, the Gilgo Beach serial killer, also known as
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Speaker 1: the Long Island serial Killer. As of right now, still
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Speaker 1: no arrest, but now a bombshell in the case emerges.
0:35
Speaker 1: Another man, a Long Island carpenter, a seemingly happy married
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Speaker 1: father of two, is convicted of murdering two women and
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Speaker 1: he is currently being eyed in a third. Does this
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Speaker 1: unlock the mystery of the ten dead bodies fould discarded
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Speaker 1: hidden along the ocean along a pathway, the Ocean Highway.
1:04
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
1:06
Speaker 1: being with us. We have an all star lineup today
1:10
Speaker 1: to break it down and put it back together again.
1:12
Speaker 1: Pat Brown, criminal profile or Cheryl McCullum, director of the
1:16
Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute. Bob Colker from New York Magazine
1:22
Speaker 1: and author of Lost Girls. You can find that on
1:25
Speaker 1: Amazon dot com and Allen Killlaurin Crime Online dot com
1:30
Speaker 1: investigative reporter everyone. Thank you for being with us. Bob Colcher,
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Speaker 1: starting with you, Nobody even knew about the bodies buried
1:41
Speaker 1: along the beach there near Gilgo Beach. Nobody knew it,
1:46
Speaker 1: and by the time they were found, many of them
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Speaker 1: were skeletonized. How did the case break open? Lots of
1:53
Speaker 1: the victims have been missing for years and the police
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Speaker 1: weren't even actively searching for them. Happened was one woman
2:01
Speaker 1: disappeared about three miles from where the body started to
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Speaker 1: be found. This woman was named Shannon Gilbert, and she
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Speaker 1: was an escort who advertised on Craiglist and back Page.
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Speaker 1: She disappeared screaming one night in a tiny, secluded beach
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Speaker 1: community on the south shore of Long Island. Okay, who
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Speaker 1: wa wa wa wa Wait wait Bob Colker, You're awesome.
2:21
Speaker 1: Bob Colker joining me from New York Magazine, author of
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Speaker 1: Lost Girls. But it's like I'm drinking from a far hydrant,
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Speaker 1: giving it to her fast. Furious, I can't take it
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Speaker 1: all in hold on. So this woman, Shannon, was at
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Speaker 1: a home. It's a beautiful area right there on the beach,
2:40
Speaker 1: and she spotted running from the home, screaming at the
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Speaker 1: top of her lungs. The first place I would look
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Speaker 1: is who's in the home? What is she running from?
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Speaker 1: She calls nine one one, right, that's right, she does
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Speaker 1: and her colle gets bounced around two different jurisdictions and
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Speaker 1: never even gets connected to her disappearance for weeks or
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Speaker 1: even months. Wait a minute, I did not know that detail,
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Speaker 1: Bob colcher Cheryl McCollum, You and I have worked cases
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Speaker 1: together on the streets. That kills me. That just kills me.
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Speaker 1: The woman is screaming, they're trying to kill me, running
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Speaker 1: for her life, and they what transfer. It reminds me
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Speaker 1: of the Home Alone movie when the mom is calling
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Speaker 1: from Paris. This must be Home Alone too, And I'm
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Speaker 1: trying to get the cops to go check on the
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Speaker 1: home and they go wrong, wrong department, and he just
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Speaker 1: knocks on the wall and says pick up line too,
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Speaker 1: and it just goes round and round and round. This
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Speaker 1: girl is running for her life, Shannon Gilbert, running for
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Speaker 1: her life, and they transfer her Cheryl McCollum for three minutes.
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Speaker 1: She's on with no one one for three minutes. Matthew.
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Speaker 1: The issue is she had like a disposable typephone. It
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Speaker 1: wasn't connected to a person or an address. They were
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Speaker 1: definitely trying to find where she was at and could
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Speaker 1: not until a neighbor made a call, as was she
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Speaker 1: knocked go U door. This is what we know about
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Speaker 1: the disappearance of Shannon Gilbert and Bob Colcher, you're the expert.
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Speaker 1: But sometime after midnight on May one, Shannon Gilbert made
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Speaker 1: her way to a job, unwillingly, driving right past bones
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Speaker 1: of the Long Island cereal killer's victims hidden in the brush.
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Speaker 1: She had no idea at the time, but the events
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Speaker 1: that happened in the next few hours would go on
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Speaker 1: to link her to four dead women. To Bob Colcher,
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Speaker 1: reporter with The New York Magazine, author of Lost Girls
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Speaker 1: on Amazon dot com. So she runs from the home screaming, screaming,
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Speaker 1: take a listen to what her sister, Sharie Gilbert tells
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Speaker 1: forty eight hours. Sometimes I stre mid night of Shannon
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Speaker 1: being dead. Other nights my dream that she's alive and
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Speaker 1: she's doing well, and we find her and like, Shannon,
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Speaker 1: where were you? My sister was lasting running along the road.
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Speaker 1: She was in fair of her life that night. That
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Speaker 1: wasn't She just disappeared into the night. Two days passed
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Speaker 1: before Shari learned her sister was actually missing. When Shannon's
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Speaker 1: a boyfriend called us say she had never come home.
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Speaker 1: Listen immediately I saw it to panic. I knew that,
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Speaker 1: and when he called me was something serious. I could
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Speaker 1: kind of hear the fear in his voice. That's from
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Speaker 1: forty eight hours to Bob Colker. What happens then, well,
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Speaker 1: the family didn't know what to do. They went went
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Speaker 1: to the police and tried to file a missing person's report,
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Speaker 1: and they were told that they had to file it
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Speaker 1: back in Shannon's hometown, which was in Jersey City, miles
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Speaker 1: and miles away across state lines. They went and did that,
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Speaker 1: And this is the other great outrage of this case.
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Speaker 1: It took forever, you know, weeks, perhaps even months for
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Speaker 1: that missing person's case in Jersey City to make its
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Speaker 1: way back to Suffolk County in Long Island. And then
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Speaker 1: it took Suffolk County a long time to connect it
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Speaker 1: to that tape. And they only started to take Shannon's
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Speaker 1: disappearance seriously by around August. Really it was May when
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Speaker 1: she disappeared. In August when the police start looking for her.
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Speaker 1: But then the most amazing thing happened. Nancy, a cop
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Speaker 1: and a cadaver sniffing dog go looking for Shannon. A
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Speaker 1: good training exercise for the dog. A woman who's been
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Speaker 1: gone missing for so long, perhaps she's deceased. They can't
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Speaker 1: find her anywhere until finally, in December, months and months
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Speaker 1: after Shannon disappeared, the cop and the cadaver dog find
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Speaker 1: a set of bones along Ocean Parkway, just three miles
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Speaker 1: away from where Shannon disappeared. It's a woman. She's petite
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Speaker 1: like Shannon, but it isn't Shannon. And within two days
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Speaker 1: they find three more bodies, just about a tenth of
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Speaker 1: a mile apart from each other, evenly spaced, clearly planned out,
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Speaker 1: clearly the work of a premeditated killer. None of these
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Speaker 1: women are Shannon Gilbert. From there, the entire New York
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Speaker 1: media world explodes, The national media world explodes. As a
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Speaker 1: serial killer in New York City. Some of these women
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Speaker 1: have been disappeared for three or four years. Nobody knows
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Speaker 1: who he is. The police don't have leads. It's like
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Speaker 1: they've inherited for cold cases. Five of you include Shannon,
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Speaker 1: and months go by and there are no suspects, no
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Speaker 1: people of interest. You know, it's amazing to me, Bob
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Speaker 1: Colker with New York Magazine that with all these bodies,
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Speaker 1: they can't get any DNA to Pat Brown, criminal profile
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Speaker 1: or many of the bodies had already been skeleton eyes
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Speaker 1: That shows how long they've been out there. But there
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Speaker 1: are many signs that let me know this is in
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Speaker 1: fact the work of one person. Many of the women
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Speaker 1: dismembered so they would fit into burlap bags. They all
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Speaker 1: appear to be Caucasian females. One of them is white
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Speaker 1: by racial One body found is a toddler girl who
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Speaker 1: DNA matches up to one of the dead women. The
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Speaker 1: toddler girl was killed too. One of them turned out
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Speaker 1: to be an Asian male dressed as a Caucasian woman.
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Speaker 1: So you've got a guy, I believe, one guy focusing
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Speaker 1: on Caucasian women, petite, all dismembered, all dismembered to fit
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Speaker 1: into burlap bags, evenly discarded, disposed like Bob Colker just
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Speaker 1: told us about a tenth of a mile apart. What
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Speaker 1: does that tell you you're the criminal profiler? Pat Brown? Well,
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Speaker 1: I'm in agreement off you, Nancy, that we're looking at
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Speaker 1: most likely one serial killer, because it would be a
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Speaker 1: little odd that another serial killer also found this great
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Speaker 1: dumping ground. And what does happen with serial killers who
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Speaker 1: disposed of bodies and places that they think won't be found.
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Speaker 1: If they find a good place, nobody's nobody has discovered
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Speaker 1: that body. Why look for another place where you could
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Speaker 1: get called or the body could be discovered. Why not
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Speaker 1: just keep using that same stretch of road. And that's
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Speaker 1: clearly in my mind what he did and was very
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Speaker 1: successful at it. If it hadn't been for the peculiar
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Speaker 1: moment of Shannon Gilbert going missing a I think it's
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Speaker 1: just a bizarre coincidence. And nine one one call was
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Speaker 1: never released, right Ellen, so he can't listen to it
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Speaker 1: with me. Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Ellen killaurin
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Speaker 1: the nine on one call, and the transcript is something
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Speaker 1: that everyone reported on this case has tried to get
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Speaker 1: and they will not release it. Um It is confirmed
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Speaker 1: that she did say in the call someone someone's trying
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Speaker 1: to kill me, or they're trying to kill me, something
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Speaker 1: like that. The authorities have not released the audio or
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Speaker 1: any transcripts of the call, so we don't know what
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Speaker 1: else was said. But as a matter of fact, the
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Speaker 1: former Suffolk County Chief of Detectives, Dominic Varone, listened to
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Speaker 1: the call and spoke for the first time on Network
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Speaker 1: TV to our friend at forty eight hours Aaron Moriarty
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Speaker 1: listen to what he tells erin She's saying, there's someone
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Speaker 1: after me. There's someone after me. It's a girl who's
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Speaker 1: clearly believes she's in harm's way. Does she say who
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Speaker 1: she's afraid of? She just says they're trying to kill me.
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Speaker 1: Chief Varone says two male voices are recognizable in the background,
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Speaker 1: Shannon's driver and the man who hired her, Joseph Brewer.
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Speaker 1: As Brewer has heard trying to get her to leave
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Speaker 1: his house, Arrell and says that heither approaches touches their
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Speaker 1: house scream out. But police couldn't respond to the call
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Speaker 1: because Shannon couldn't say where she was. The complaint operators
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Speaker 1: asking well, where are you, and she just kind of
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Speaker 1: ignores that where are you question and keep saying, uh,
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Speaker 1: someone's after me. So unwillingly. To CHERRYL. McCollum, director of
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Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute, this woman, Shannon Gilbert's disappearance
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Speaker 1: touches off the discovery of one of the most prolific
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Speaker 1: serial killers inter nation's history. No question they believed the
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Speaker 1: first body was Shannon, and when it came back not
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Speaker 1: to be her, and then they found a second body
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Speaker 1: and a third body. At that point they knew they
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Speaker 1: had something massive on their hands. Matthew, This crime scene
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Speaker 1: is huge. These victims are all about five yards apart.
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Speaker 1: The terrain is rough. There's water, there's boulders, they're sand,
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Speaker 1: there's wind. It's difficult to walk to it. It's difficult
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Speaker 1: to process it. Um the killer take the great dumping. Well,
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Speaker 1: you know what, there's been a lot of attack on
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Speaker 1: the police. Bob Colker with me from New York Magazine,
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Speaker 1: author of Lost Girls, which is awesome. It's on Amazon
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Speaker 1: dot com. Bob. But when you see the terrain and
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Speaker 1: you at first you think there's ten bodies out there
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Speaker 1: and police what did they have to stumble over them
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Speaker 1: as they're taking a walk eating a doughnut. No, it's
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Speaker 1: not like that at all. I think it's wrong to
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Speaker 1: attack cops in this way because it's just like Cheryl said,
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Speaker 1: that terrain, they're huge boulders. It's not like you know,
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Speaker 1: a sunny beach like you would see on a Jamaican
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Speaker 1: beach where it's a beautiful white sand and there's nothing
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Speaker 1: but sand as far as I can see. It's not
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Speaker 1: like that at all. There's crashing waves, the rocks are
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Speaker 1: out in the water, and everyone also attacked them for
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Speaker 1: not realizing about Shannon's nine one one calls twenty three minutes,
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Speaker 1: like Cheryl told us, but her call was transferred to
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Speaker 1: the New York State Police. She couldn't tell them where
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Speaker 1: she was. She was out in the dudes, running for
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Speaker 1: her life. It took nearly a month for cops to
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Speaker 1: connect her call, her nine one one call to the
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Speaker 1: missing person's report her family filed in New Jersey. Do
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Speaker 1: I have that right, Bob? It might portraying it correctly. Yes,
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Speaker 1: that's exactly right. The only thing I would add, Nancy
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Speaker 1: is that you really couldn't come up with a better
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Speaker 1: place to dispose of a body. That We're not just
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Speaker 1: talking about a lot of bramble and boulders the way
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Speaker 1: that you said. We're talking about a fifteen mile long
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Speaker 1: stretch of highway with very very few exits, with very
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Speaker 1: very little on either side. It is completely straight, so
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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, you could pull over
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Speaker 1: with your car onto the shoulder and you would know
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Speaker 1: if someone was coming for more than a minute to
13:55
Speaker 1: get back in your car and leaves, so that you
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Speaker 1: wouldn't arouse suspicion. It's really um. What makes it even
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Speaker 1: more amazing, Nancy, is that it is right near New
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Speaker 1: York City. So you've got a megalappa to eleven million people,
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Speaker 1: and it's a very accessible stretch of highway that is
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Speaker 1: also deserted. So you've got a megalappa to eleven million people,
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Speaker 1: and it's a very accessible stretch of highway that is
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Speaker 1: also deserted. So the suspect field is enormous. But if
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Speaker 1: I could just talk to the person that was responsible
14:29
Speaker 1: for my sister's death, I would just say, you know,
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Speaker 1: you had no right to take an end of some
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Speaker 1: person's life. To continue giving it my all being a
14:41
Speaker 1: mom of two and investigating the major crimes across our
14:47
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Speaker 1: I need it. You know. I'm thinking right now of
16:16
Speaker 1: these ladies, and they're so casually discussed, like they're disposable
16:22
Speaker 1: of being of advertising on Craigslist. Let me tell you
16:25
Speaker 1: about one of these ladies. Lynn Bartolemy's daughter was Melissa.
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Speaker 1: She had been missing for a little over a year,
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Speaker 1: and she and her fiance were up watching CNN and
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Speaker 1: they started televising where the bodies were found. She Lynn
16:45
Speaker 1: and her fiance didn't say a word they looked at
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Speaker 1: each other and they both started crying. They both knew
16:52
Speaker 1: without saying a word, that it was Melissa. And to
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, it's really uncanny. I don't know if that
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Speaker 1: happens to other people, but it happened to me when
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Speaker 1: my fiancee was murdered. I had just come out of
17:08
Speaker 1: a statistics exam. I was walking a long way across
17:13
Speaker 1: campus to my job, which was in the library, and
17:16
Speaker 1: I stopped midway no cell phones then, and picked up
17:19
Speaker 1: a pay phone to call the library and tell them
17:22
Speaker 1: that I was ten minutes away, that my test ran along,
17:26
Speaker 1: and they said, call Keith's sister. I knew right then
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Speaker 1: that Keith was dead. Mm hmm. I've heard it over
17:36
Speaker 1: and over and over. Have you ever heard that? Share
17:39
Speaker 1: of course, Nancy. And here's the sad thing. The families
17:42
Speaker 1: knew a lot more then they probably shared with a
17:45
Speaker 1: ton of people. And one thing they knew is they
17:47
Speaker 1: knew what their loved were doing for a living. And
17:50
Speaker 1: that is another thing that law enforcement didn't take seriously
17:53
Speaker 1: because these women were involved the prostitution. Listen to what
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Speaker 1: her sister tells forty eight hours. Do you think the
18:00
Speaker 1: fact that your sister was an escort influenced the investigation
18:05
Speaker 1: in what way they judged her by her profession. I'm
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Speaker 1: not as a person, you know, not asked like the
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Speaker 1: missing sister, the missing aunt. You know, they're just small
18:17
Speaker 1: missing prostitute. My sister at other dreams. You know, she
18:20
Speaker 1: wanted to be a singer and actress. She was pursuing that,
18:25
Speaker 1: and she was also going to school to be a writer.
18:28
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum way in, I learned a valuable lesson from you,
18:32
Speaker 1: you know, thirty years ago, and that is, regardless what
18:37
Speaker 1: they do for a living, they don't deserve to be
18:40
Speaker 1: murdered or left for dead. Um. You and I had
18:42
Speaker 1: a case where a woman was left for dead. She
18:45
Speaker 1: was a prostitute out on F I B. And tons
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Speaker 1: of people were encouraging you during the trial to lead
18:54
Speaker 1: with she the mother of two, she was you know,
18:57
Speaker 1: raised in the church in Farebord and all that, and
19:00
Speaker 1: you thanked everybody for their input. And you walked straight
19:03
Speaker 1: in that courtroom and you looked right at that jury
19:06
Speaker 1: and the first thing out of your mouth was, Jane
19:09
Speaker 1: Belle was a hooker. Let's get it out of the way.
19:13
Speaker 1: And then you went into who she was. She was
19:16
Speaker 1: more than that. She was more than that. You're more
19:19
Speaker 1: than a talk show host. You're more than an attorney.
19:21
Speaker 1: You're a mother, you're a sister, you're a daughter. We
19:24
Speaker 1: all have layers to who we are, and if you
19:27
Speaker 1: make them human, then it just might lead you to
19:30
Speaker 1: their killer. Well, another thing to Pat Brown, criminal profile
19:34
Speaker 1: are we and I do it too, but I try
19:38
Speaker 1: to correct it immediately. We are looking for a killer,
19:41
Speaker 1: and so one way to catch a serial killer is
19:45
Speaker 1: you analyze the victims. And that is one thing and
19:48
Speaker 1: they all had in common. They were advertising on Craigslist.
19:53
Speaker 1: Cheryl is right too. I mean we have all me
19:56
Speaker 1: number one, I'm first in the line, have done plenty
19:59
Speaker 1: of things I'm ashamed of. I wish I hadn't done.
20:02
Speaker 1: I look back and I'm I hate, I cringe as
20:06
Speaker 1: the twins say, it's so cringe e. But that I
20:11
Speaker 1: don't want these women to be defined by the fact
20:13
Speaker 1: that for a period of time in their life there
20:15
Speaker 1: were hookers. But that is what unites them in our
20:20
Speaker 1: search for the killer. Pat Brown, Yes, what what we
20:24
Speaker 1: have to look at with victims is that that their practices,
20:28
Speaker 1: for example, prostitution, drug use, dating online, all these things
20:32
Speaker 1: can get them into trouble, can make them victims. But
20:35
Speaker 1: in the police defense, the problem they have is that
20:37
Speaker 1: they get many, many calls about people who have gone missing,
20:42
Speaker 1: and they've gone missing on their own most of the time.
20:45
Speaker 1: So the problem is they have how do they differentiate
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Speaker 1: between who's gone missing willingly as an adult, right and
20:50
Speaker 1: who has gone missing because they are a victim of
20:52
Speaker 1: a serial killer. That certainly was not the case. These
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Speaker 1: ten victims, female victims, helpless to fight back. And right
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Speaker 1: now we're talking about victim Bartolemy. Here's her sister, Amanda
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Speaker 1: talking to our friends at ABC's g m A. Listen
21:08
Speaker 1: to what her sister says. My heart would stab and
21:14
Speaker 1: standn't know what to do. Mostly did he say that
21:17
Speaker 1: he had killed your sister on the phone. Yeah, it
21:21
Speaker 1: was very frustrating. It broke my heart. Now, what's so
21:25
Speaker 1: shocking to Bob Colker. That's Amanda, that's Bartolemy's little sister.
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Speaker 1: She was a teen girl. That's not the end of
21:33
Speaker 1: her story about the phone calls. The phone calls apparently
21:37
Speaker 1: the killer made to her not from Long Island but
21:42
Speaker 1: from the Massive Square Gardens area. Let's talk about that
21:45
Speaker 1: Bob Coker, because that phone call tells me a lot.
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Speaker 1: For instance, that he knew how to evade being traced
21:53
Speaker 1: on a cell phone. Yeah, he didn't talk for long
21:55
Speaker 1: on the cell phone, and that I mean, you could
21:57
Speaker 1: say that means that he knows that he's doing and
21:59
Speaker 1: it could be the he just watches a lot of
22:01
Speaker 1: crime procedurals. But at any rate, the thing that really
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Speaker 1: sticks with me here is that Melissa disappeared in July
22:07
Speaker 1: of two thousand nine, and her remains weren't found along
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Speaker 1: Ocean Parkway for another year and a half. And just
22:14
Speaker 1: a couple days, maybe a week or so after she disappears,
22:18
Speaker 1: her little sister Amanda gets these amazing, the horrifying phone
22:21
Speaker 1: calls from someone who could quite clearly as the killer,
22:25
Speaker 1: and it takes two or three phone calls even for
22:27
Speaker 1: the police to take that seriously. There there's a pattern
22:30
Speaker 1: in this case, not just a victimology and saying well,
22:33
Speaker 1: these women lead risky lives, but of not taking their
22:36
Speaker 1: disappearances seriously at all. Um. Melissa was gone for eighteen months,
22:42
Speaker 1: and I don't think anyone really was aggressively searching for her,
22:45
Speaker 1: even after the killer called her sister. The same with
22:48
Speaker 1: Maureen brainer Barnes. She disappeared in July of two thousand seven.
22:52
Speaker 1: Her family couldn't even get her name on the list
22:54
Speaker 1: of Missing Persons unnam as the National Registry. She was
22:58
Speaker 1: gone for three and a half years, where her remains
23:00
Speaker 1: were found. There is victimology and then there is not
23:05
Speaker 1: caring what happens to people. Certain people who go missing
23:08
Speaker 1: because of what they do for a living. And I
23:09
Speaker 1: think sometimes law enforcement crosses the line. He didn't just
23:13
Speaker 1: call Bartolemy's little sister one time. He kept calling her
23:19
Speaker 1: from her dead sister's cell phone. Sheryl McColl um. Uh.
23:24
Speaker 1: He calls. And a lot has been made about his
23:27
Speaker 1: familiarity with police techniques, and Bob Colker's right, whether you
23:31
Speaker 1: learn them at police school, or you learn them learn
23:34
Speaker 1: them watching C s I or Dexter or whatever it
23:37
Speaker 1: is you're watching, you learn them. You know you can't
23:40
Speaker 1: stay on a call about two minutes are over, because
23:43
Speaker 1: not only can they paying your general area, they keep
23:46
Speaker 1: paying you right down to the square block you're on.
23:49
Speaker 1: So he goes to Madison Square Gardens, where even if
23:52
Speaker 1: they pained him, he would be lost in thousands of people,
23:57
Speaker 1: all right, And what he says, Cheryl, He says, do
24:02
Speaker 1: you know what I did to your sister? I killed Melissa?
24:07
Speaker 1: He knows her name. He knows her name. Then he
24:10
Speaker 1: goes on with a lot of misogynistic slurs on her.
24:13
Speaker 1: He calls her a horror in this and that, and
24:16
Speaker 1: details everything he did very explicitly to her little sister.
24:21
Speaker 1: And he leaves one of the conversations with a threat
24:24
Speaker 1: that he knows where Amanda lives and that he might
24:28
Speaker 1: just decide to come after her. Now, what does it
24:32
Speaker 1: say about a serial killer. He's not out just for
24:35
Speaker 1: the killing. He's terrorizing the victims family. He loven't it.
24:40
Speaker 1: He's getting off on it. He's smarter than the police.
24:42
Speaker 1: They don't know who he is. He can't call anybody
24:44
Speaker 1: he wants to call. But here's the good news. She
24:47
Speaker 1: heard his voice, she heard his cadence, she heard his accent.
24:52
Speaker 1: He basically confessed to her. She also spoke explicitly about
24:58
Speaker 1: what he did to her. So perhaps now she has
25:01
Speaker 1: information the police didn't have. So again, this is very
25:06
Speaker 1: helpful for the police to identify the race of this person,
25:12
Speaker 1: maybe the general area they grew up and even maybe
25:16
Speaker 1: she can identify the voice if she ever hears it again. Well,
25:19
Speaker 1: the reality is this phone call was made to sell.
25:23
Speaker 1: Phone call was traced to the Madison Square Gardens area,
25:27
Speaker 1: and you know, downtown New York, and that was the
25:31
Speaker 1: end of the trail. Then there's Megan Waterman. Megan was
25:35
Speaker 1: lasting in a holiday in Express on Long Island. Now, interestingly,
25:40
Speaker 1: Bob Coulker, as you well know, it's the same holiday
25:43
Speaker 1: inn where Amber Costello was to meet someone a few
25:48
Speaker 1: weeks before she died. She didn't go, but Megan did go.
25:54
Speaker 1: She was just twenty two years old with the four
25:57
Speaker 1: year old little girl, and by all accounts was a
26:01
Speaker 1: great mom. So now you've got a local holiday in
26:08
Speaker 1: connected to two women. What about that, Bob. And they're
26:13
Speaker 1: also connected because those disappearances happened pretty close to one another,
26:16
Speaker 1: just a few months before the bodies were found. Megan
26:20
Speaker 1: disappeared at the beginning of the summer and Amber disappeared
26:23
Speaker 1: at the end of the summer, and then the bodies
26:24
Speaker 1: were found in the winter. So you've got someone who
26:29
Speaker 1: is developing a pattern, developing a set of things that
26:34
Speaker 1: he likes to do that he thinks won't get him
26:36
Speaker 1: into trouble there. That's a hotel that has a lot
26:39
Speaker 1: of suspected crime activity, and so you know, maybe he
26:43
Speaker 1: thought that he was safe, particularly if he didn't show
26:47
Speaker 1: up any on any cameras. And that's the interesting thing
26:49
Speaker 1: about uh Megan's disappearances that she's seen leaving the hotel,
26:55
Speaker 1: but you don't see where she's going, and so it's
26:57
Speaker 1: assumed that he's meeting her, um short walk away from
27:01
Speaker 1: the hotel, so that he doesn't get seen anywhere. Um.
27:05
Speaker 1: That's also the same way that he met Amber was
27:07
Speaker 1: I'll meet you with short walk away from your house.
27:10
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to be seen, so think about us.
27:13
Speaker 1: Sheryl McCullum, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute. This
27:17
Speaker 1: guy knows how to beat a surveillance camera, beat a
27:20
Speaker 1: cell phone, direct paying, and bat giving away his IP
27:27
Speaker 1: address because you know, he finds these women on Craigslist
27:30
Speaker 1: and contacts them to meet him, but he knows how
27:33
Speaker 1: to hide his Internet Provider address. That's you know, I
27:37
Speaker 1: would have to think long and hard if I wanted
27:39
Speaker 1: to beat an IP address. Sheryl McCullum. No question, high
27:44
Speaker 1: intelligence is very common. They studied their crimes, Nancy. They
27:49
Speaker 1: know what they're doing, and as they go on and on,
27:52
Speaker 1: year after year, they get better at it. At technology changes,
27:56
Speaker 1: they keep up. This isn't anything new. Everything you've meant
28:00
Speaker 1: and he can learn off the internet. A police press
28:03
Speaker 1: conference says it all on behalf of the Suffolk County
28:06
Speaker 1: Police Department. I want to convey to the loved ones
28:10
Speaker 1: in the family of all the victims that we are
28:14
Speaker 1: dedicated to do everything we can. On behalf of the
28:18
Speaker 1: Suffolk County Police Department, I want to convey to the
28:22
Speaker 1: loved ones in the family of all the victims that
28:26
Speaker 1: we are dedicated to do everything we can to solve
28:30
Speaker 1: this case. I've invited the FBI to work in close
28:33
Speaker 1: collaboration with the Suffolk County Police Department in investigating these murders.
28:38
Speaker 1: You know, there are no suspects at this time. Collectively,
28:42
Speaker 1: we want to bring to justice this animal. Our investigation
28:45
Speaker 1: indicates that each of the victims have been posting ads
28:49
Speaker 1: on computer websites for various escort and other services prior
28:54
Speaker 1: to their disappearance, and that what activities these victims may
28:59
Speaker 1: have been give being part of our murders, It does
29:02
Speaker 1: not matter. There were young women whose lines were cut
29:05
Speaker 1: tragically short. The issue of one killer, two killers, three
29:11
Speaker 1: killers for the ten remains that are being found has
29:15
Speaker 1: been discussed, and I've been asked about the theory that
29:19
Speaker 1: it's one serial killer. The facts of the case indicate
29:24
Speaker 1: one person. The public, including the media, should realize that
29:29
Speaker 1: this investigation is not an episode of C s I
29:33
Speaker 1: or Criminal Minds that is going to be solved in
29:36
Speaker 1: a one hour period. The investigation is multifaceted, multi jurisdictional,
29:43
Speaker 1: and most likely is going to take a very long
29:46
Speaker 1: period of time to complete. Three months after finding the
29:50
Speaker 1: bodies of Melissa, Amber and Megan and Marine police now
29:54
Speaker 1: began to find more bodies and body parts along what
29:59
Speaker 1: was once a beautiful, untouched beach playground. Six new sets
30:06
Speaker 1: of dead bodies in all Pat Brown criminal profile or
30:11
Speaker 1: now we're finding body parts. They aren't neatly contained in
30:15
Speaker 1: burlette bags. Was that on purpose or did they just
30:17
Speaker 1: somehow end up getting out of the burlette bags through
30:21
Speaker 1: maybe animal activity? Well, I do believe he dismembered them,
30:24
Speaker 1: and this is a great piece of This is a
30:26
Speaker 1: great piece of evidence and a great clue. Along with
30:29
Speaker 1: the fact that all the women were in such a
30:31
Speaker 1: one location along the Long Long Island and also that
30:35
Speaker 1: a local hotel issues that will tell the police. This
30:38
Speaker 1: guy is very, very local. He knows the area, he
30:41
Speaker 1: knows everything about the area, and he has a place
30:44
Speaker 1: to bring these women and actually do something to them,
30:48
Speaker 1: like like dismember them. So he's not just grabbing off
30:50
Speaker 1: the street and going into a bush with him. He
30:52
Speaker 1: actually has a home, a home that is local, and
30:55
Speaker 1: that really narrows the suspect list down a whole lot.
30:59
Speaker 1: So tin body uh eight of them strangled or suffocated.
31:03
Speaker 1: None of them turned out to be Shannon Gilbert. Remember
31:07
Speaker 1: she's the young girl in her twenties whose disappearance sparked
31:11
Speaker 1: the entire investigation, the one who in screaming from that home.
31:16
Speaker 1: Now ten bodies at this point, she's now been missing
31:21
Speaker 1: ten months, her parents, her family distraught. The search for
31:27
Speaker 1: Shannon leads police back to the last place she was seeing,
31:31
Speaker 1: that gated community at Oak Beach, just three miles from
31:35
Speaker 1: the dumping ground. It led them to three different men.
31:40
Speaker 1: The man who hired Shannon, the man who drove her there,
31:44
Speaker 1: and a doctor who seemingly put himself right in the
31:46
Speaker 1: middle of the investigation. Who's the doctor, Bob Colcher joining
31:49
Speaker 1: Me from New York Magazine and author of Lost Girls
31:53
Speaker 1: on Amazon. One of the last places Shannon was seen,
31:56
Speaker 1: or the last, was outside of the home of when
31:59
Speaker 1: woman named Barbara Brennan, who was one of two different
32:02
Speaker 1: neighbors who called nine one one that evening. He also
32:06
Speaker 1: she also happened to be right around the corner from
32:08
Speaker 1: Dr Peter Hackett's house. Dr Hackett is a prominent Oak
32:12
Speaker 1: Beach citizen. He was well known to everyone as sort
32:17
Speaker 1: of the local big shots. He would monitor the police
32:20
Speaker 1: radio and let people know what was going on around there,
32:23
Speaker 1: and then he inserts himself into the case. Within days
32:25
Speaker 1: of Shannon's disappearance. He offers help to Shannon's boyfriend when
32:31
Speaker 1: Shannon's boyfriend comes back to see what happened to her,
32:34
Speaker 1: And then he calls Shannon's mother Mary, and Uh, it's
32:39
Speaker 1: what he says to Mary that really is kind of
32:42
Speaker 1: mind blowing. He doesn't uh properly identify himself. He he
32:47
Speaker 1: says that he runs a home for wayward girls. He says,
32:51
Speaker 1: white white, white, white white white. Uh, I haven't heard
32:56
Speaker 1: that phrase used. I mean, didn't they use that phrase
33:01
Speaker 1: back in the eighteen hundreds. A home for wayward girls
33:05
Speaker 1: who would say that, yeah, well he's he's kind of
33:07
Speaker 1: a dramatic guy, Dr Hackett, And according to Mary, in
33:11
Speaker 1: this call, he goes further. He says that he even
33:13
Speaker 1: saw Shannon that night and tried to help her, and
33:17
Speaker 1: that he was wondering if she got back home safely,
33:20
Speaker 1: and then suggests that maybe he she should get to
33:23
Speaker 1: a rehab sometime somewhere. And how did he get the
33:27
Speaker 1: mother's phone number to call her? It seems as if
33:29
Speaker 1: he got it from from Shannon's boyfriend when Shann's boyfriend
33:32
Speaker 1: came to the house. But the crazy thing about these calls,
33:36
Speaker 1: aside from what Mary says he said, is that he
33:39
Speaker 1: denies it. He denies it for months and months and
33:41
Speaker 1: months that he ever made these calls. Mary tells the police,
33:45
Speaker 1: this guy called me, uh, you know, he says, I
33:49
Speaker 1: never did it. He tells the media he didn't do it,
33:51
Speaker 1: until finally he he changes the story and acknowledges that
33:55
Speaker 1: he did call her. And so the question becomes why,
33:59
Speaker 1: why why say these things to her? And then why
34:02
Speaker 1: lie about it? And you know the only conclusion that
34:06
Speaker 1: I've come to in my book Lost Girls, is that
34:09
Speaker 1: he and other neighbors know a lot more about what
34:11
Speaker 1: happened to Shannon that night. Then they're letting on. Everybody says, oh,
34:15
Speaker 1: she was screaming outside Barbara Brennan's house and then that's
34:17
Speaker 1: the last we heard of her. I don't believe that's true.
34:20
Speaker 1: Someone like Peter Hackett, who wants to do what's going
34:23
Speaker 1: on all the time in his community, he would have
34:25
Speaker 1: been outside that house like a shot. But he's been
34:27
Speaker 1: denying that he saw her that night. He's been denying that.
34:30
Speaker 1: He said that's to Mary. That's very odd, Bob, because
34:34
Speaker 1: he calls the mom, according to her and says, I
34:36
Speaker 1: saw your daughter. Did she make it home? Okay, I'm
34:39
Speaker 1: really worried about her. Her daughter at that point had
34:42
Speaker 1: not been saying or heard from, and and the mom's
34:46
Speaker 1: going crazy and she's got this doctor calling her about
34:49
Speaker 1: her daughter. But then when police go to speak to him,
34:51
Speaker 1: he goes, no, no no, no, that never happened. Well. Former
34:54
Speaker 1: Chief of Detectives Dominic Varone says Dr Hackett is not
34:58
Speaker 1: a suspect in Shannon's death, that the calls to the
35:01
Speaker 1: family are very strange, but he is not a suspect.
35:07
Speaker 1: Now where does that leave me? Now to Cheryl McCollum,
35:11
Speaker 1: a cold case research and director, was Shannon's body never found.
35:16
Speaker 1: It was found, and at first they thought it might
35:19
Speaker 1: be due to hypothermia. And we've had one expert to
35:22
Speaker 1: say that he believed that she was strangled. But again,
35:26
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, she was found where all the other bodies
35:29
Speaker 1: were found. Now, Ellen Colorine with me Crime Online dot
35:32
Speaker 1: Com reporter. Authorities believe that she may have been This
35:39
Speaker 1: is yet another victim that launched the investigation. Her disappearance anyway,
35:43
Speaker 1: running through the dunes and the rocks wildly, it was
35:47
Speaker 1: it not she couldn't see, and that she fell into
35:50
Speaker 1: the water and inhald water and died. Her family says,
35:55
Speaker 1: no way, she was murdered. Ellen, that's right. She and
36:00
Speaker 1: when Shannon was found, she was in a marshy area
36:02
Speaker 1: that directly surrounded the Oak Beach community where she had
36:07
Speaker 1: gone to meet with Joseph Brewer. Um. Her body was
36:11
Speaker 1: found in that marsh. Her clothes were found elsewhere she
36:16
Speaker 1: she had been um her clothes were found elsewhere. To
36:21
Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum, the Cold Case Research Institute, she's running through
36:26
Speaker 1: rocks and brush and swamp, but yet she had taken
36:30
Speaker 1: her shoes off and her pants. That doesn't sound like
36:35
Speaker 1: an accidental drowning to me, Nancy, I think the number
36:38
Speaker 1: one one call is going to be key if we
36:40
Speaker 1: could hear it. If she in fact says they are
36:44
Speaker 1: trying to kill me, that means she believes it's more
36:47
Speaker 1: than one person. She didn't say he, She didn't save him.
36:51
Speaker 1: She said they, And if she didn't trust the driver
36:55
Speaker 1: or the man who's house she was at, or the
36:57
Speaker 1: man's house that she knocked on the door, perhaps begging, begging,
37:02
Speaker 1: so if she didn't feel safe, and when she saw
37:05
Speaker 1: the headlights of the car coming, she dashed out again
37:09
Speaker 1: and that person pursued her. So to me again, I
37:15
Speaker 1: find it really hard to believe that she ran for
37:19
Speaker 1: cover on the very beat. But the serial killers using
37:23
Speaker 1: for dumping graps. You know, I watched all these movies
37:25
Speaker 1: with serial killers and they're like, that could have happened,
37:27
Speaker 1: but it really does happen. For years, this thicket along
37:30
Speaker 1: a beautiful beach highway on Long Island kept a terrible,
37:35
Speaker 1: terrible secret. As drivers went by, they had no idea
37:39
Speaker 1: they were passing the skeletal remains of mostly young women
37:45
Speaker 1: that had been there, dismembered and placed in burlapp bags.
37:49
Speaker 1: And now a bizarre twist in the story. A Long
37:56
Speaker 1: Island carpenter, I married guy with two children has just
38:01
Speaker 1: been sentenced to consecutive twenty five to live sentences for
38:05
Speaker 1: bating two women to death all the way back a
38:10
Speaker 1: ninety three and ninety four. His name John Bittroff. It's
38:16
Speaker 1: amazing to me that he had this facade of being
38:19
Speaker 1: married with children, but he bat two women dead. To
38:25
Speaker 1: Bob Colker, New York Magazine, author of Lost Girls on Amazon,
38:29
Speaker 1: who is this guy? This is a guy who's essentially
38:34
Speaker 1: been living alive for decades. He committed these murders years
38:39
Speaker 1: before most of the women disappeared. Who are the remains
38:42
Speaker 1: that are were found in this case, but not so
38:46
Speaker 1: much before that it couldn't be linked. He lived way
38:49
Speaker 1: out in the eastern part of Long Island, near a
38:52
Speaker 1: set of pine barrens where some other murder victims have
38:55
Speaker 1: been found in the past, and a few of those
38:57
Speaker 1: have been uh just partial remains, and the other remains
39:01
Speaker 1: have been found along Ocean Parkway where uh, you know,
39:05
Speaker 1: Shannon Gilbert's disappearance was and so you know it could
39:10
Speaker 1: be just more than a coincidence, obviously that he is
39:13
Speaker 1: someone who has done this before and was living alive
39:15
Speaker 1: for decades and perhaps was continuing to kill all that time.
39:19
Speaker 1: What's frustrating is that he hasn't been charged with any
39:22
Speaker 1: of those other murders, and it's been a very long time,
39:25
Speaker 1: and so we have to wonder what the police have
39:28
Speaker 1: in the way of evidence. But again, circumstantially speaking, you
39:31
Speaker 1: have someone who knows what he's doing, knows how to
39:34
Speaker 1: do it, knows how to lie about it, knows where
39:36
Speaker 1: the pine barrens are. You know, he's an attractive suspect,
39:40
Speaker 1: at least in the popular imagination. Now, this guy, the
39:43
Speaker 1: Long Island corporator John Bittroll, arrested in two thousand fourteen
39:48
Speaker 1: in an unrelated investigation on the deaths of two prostitutes
39:53
Speaker 1: left in wooded areas in eastern Long Island. The bodies
39:58
Speaker 1: were newed. It was Redd ten Greedy and Colleen mcnammy.
40:03
Speaker 1: They were just nine miles apart, the same stretch of
40:10
Speaker 1: area as the Long Island serial killers. Now, this is
40:14
Speaker 1: what else we know about bitch trof Pat Brown. Apparently
40:17
Speaker 1: he was a prolific hunter and loved to show off
40:24
Speaker 1: gutting the animals after he killed them, eating one of
40:29
Speaker 1: their hearts, reportedly raw during the hunting trip. Yeah, John
40:34
Speaker 1: Bill Trof, I mean, he is my number one suspect.
40:37
Speaker 1: We have a guy here who sounds very psychopathic, very sadistic,
40:41
Speaker 1: and he likes to dismember things. He's in the local area,
40:44
Speaker 1: has a home, He's got everything that would connect him
40:46
Speaker 1: to these cases, and he has the real good connections
40:49
Speaker 1: to the two they've already charged him with. But as
40:52
Speaker 1: to why has men charged with others, I think the
40:54
Speaker 1: problem is the police have to have enough evidence to
40:58
Speaker 1: do that, even if they believe it's him circumstantially. They
41:01
Speaker 1: don't want to just go charging willy nilly without being
41:03
Speaker 1: able to say exactly, we have the links and that's
41:07
Speaker 1: the proper thing to do. What more do we know
41:09
Speaker 1: about this guy? To Ellen color and Crime online dot
41:12
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, what can you tell me about John
41:16
Speaker 1: Bit We know that he's someone who's capable of extreme
41:19
Speaker 1: brutality and extreme violent but also capable of keeping up
41:23
Speaker 1: a facade of being a normal, functional person that he was.
41:27
Speaker 1: He was functioning in society for years and years and years.
41:30
Speaker 1: After the women that he killed before he was arrested
41:34
Speaker 1: and convicted for those for those murders. So it does
41:37
Speaker 1: seem possible to me that he's someone who's capable of
41:40
Speaker 1: doing much more than that. If you can carry on
41:43
Speaker 1: a normal life and go undetected while knowing in the
41:46
Speaker 1: back of your mind that you have committed these brutal,
41:49
Speaker 1: violent crimes, who's to say you're going to stop it too.
41:52
Speaker 1: When asked by the Associated Press about bit Troll's possible
41:56
Speaker 1: connection to the Long Island serial killer case, which as
41:59
Speaker 1: we know by now ten other victims, quote the prosting
42:03
Speaker 1: Cuter says there are remains of the victims that gil
42:07
Speaker 1: Go Beach that may be a tribute to to the
42:10
Speaker 1: handiwork of Bittrof and that investigation is ongoing. Another tidbit,
42:16
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum from the Cold Case Research Institute that we
42:19
Speaker 1: learned is that one of bit Troff's dead victims was
42:27
Speaker 1: best friends with one of the ten gil Go Beach victims. Now,
42:34
Speaker 1: what's the likelihood of that being a coincidence? Well, you know,
42:37
Speaker 1: I don't believe in coincidence, is Nancy Um. I think
42:41
Speaker 1: any connection is a firm step toward linkage. To other
42:45
Speaker 1: things that are going to be similar. Um. I think
42:48
Speaker 1: it's really important impact and even follow up that for
42:52
Speaker 1: people to understand killers can change and alter their emo. UM.
42:57
Speaker 1: So for example, with Ted Bundy, we saw him kill people,
43:00
Speaker 1: the metal rod branble people and then snatch a twelve
43:03
Speaker 1: year old girl straight off the road in broad daylight.
43:06
Speaker 1: So they don't appear to be the same killer on paper,
43:10
Speaker 1: but once you start connecting other signatures and similarities, you'll
43:15
Speaker 1: be surprised. And here is Bits Troff, the avid huntsman
43:19
Speaker 1: living in a large home in Manorville with his wife
43:22
Speaker 1: and two children, arrested years after the first victims were
43:27
Speaker 1: found thanks to d n A. As it turned out,
43:31
Speaker 1: his brother Timothy was in prison for contempt of court
43:35
Speaker 1: and the brother Timothy was required to give a DNA sample.
43:39
Speaker 1: That is when a quote hit popped up on the
43:42
Speaker 1: state database under familial DNA, which is now all out
43:46
Speaker 1: in New York, tying a male relative of the brother
43:52
Speaker 1: two Cole Case murders. That's what familial DNA is. When
44:00
Speaker 1: you get a hit that shows you that DNA on
44:04
Speaker 1: the crime scene matches somebody in the killer's family, not
44:08
Speaker 1: necessarily the killer, but a relative, and then you go
44:12
Speaker 1: from there. You start from there now to you. Bob Colker,
44:16
Speaker 1: New York Magazine, author of Last Girls, Are you convinced
44:20
Speaker 1: Bitch Rolf is the Long Island serial killer? Well, you
44:24
Speaker 1: know you would. You would like to think that with
44:25
Speaker 1: so many victims, even if some of them are old
44:28
Speaker 1: and skeletonized, there would be at least some friends of
44:30
Speaker 1: evidence that they could use, you know, to match DNA,
44:34
Speaker 1: the same way they did with Colleen and Rita. But
44:37
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to be the case, because if they
44:39
Speaker 1: had it, he would have been charged by now. I
44:41
Speaker 1: think the most they can do is say that they're
44:43
Speaker 1: looking closely at him, and that to me suggests that
44:46
Speaker 1: they don't have the goods yet. But that doesn't mean
44:48
Speaker 1: they won't. I mean, Long Island and other places are
44:51
Speaker 1: filled with stories of cases I've covered where the prime
44:55
Speaker 1: suspect has walked among us and everyone knows their suspect,
44:58
Speaker 1: and the police don't appear to be at doing anything,
45:00
Speaker 1: and then one day they've turns out they've been um,
45:04
Speaker 1: you know, making a case all along and building their case,
45:06
Speaker 1: and then when they're ready they go for it. So
45:10
Speaker 1: maybe that will happen a bit Roth's case. It's interesting
45:13
Speaker 1: what um your guests said about coincidences. There are so
45:16
Speaker 1: many coincidences in this case. If Shannon Gilbert hadn't been uh,
45:21
Speaker 1: you know, a missing person so close to these other bodies,
45:25
Speaker 1: we wouldn't even know there was a long eyel on
45:27
Speaker 1: serial killer. And if she wasn't a victim to, then
45:30
Speaker 1: the fact that her disappearance happened is even more coincidental.
45:33
Speaker 1: It's astonishing that that so many different terms of fate
45:37
Speaker 1: have really created a case that still is so very unsolved,
45:42
Speaker 1: so very unsolved. Ten victims, their skeletonized bodies found littering
45:50
Speaker 1: the beach, hidden away for years. My concern are there
45:55
Speaker 1: more as of yet undiscovered Nancy Grace crimes to He's
46:00
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend M