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EL TREN DE LA VIDA 11-07-24 · EL TREN DE LA VIDA

• 0:13
  Good morning, friends and friends, I am Julio Pérez and this is the
• 0:21
  train of life, a radio adventure along the routes of the heart. I
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  want to invite you to travel with me and dream together in a better world,
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  a different world where men and women of good will can live in peace
• 0:38
  and freedom. The train of life is a magaxin of good news and hope.
• 0:48
  This is a radio time specially designed for people like you and like so
• 0:54
  many truth seekers, of the only truth that can make us authentic, nte
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  free, come I invite you to travel with us on the safest train of
• 1:07
  all, which will certainly take you to safe harbour. This is the train
• 1:17
  of life. Good world, well, good morning Spain, bon day.
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  Friends and friends, welcome to this traveling train. It' s like life
• 2:00
  itself, the train of unstoppable life. We' re going to travel with
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  good friends this morning. I ask you to accompany me and enjoy it.
• 2:07
  We also go there, ladies and gentlemen, very well found this summer morning.
• 3:09
  But this already seems to be serious. Summer' s here, and
• 3:15
  no one knows how it' s been. If we' ve found out
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  he' s here, we' re in almost semi- holistic mode,
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  but not at all. Here we are to accompany you with good proposals,
• 3:28
  good interviews some other curiosity also that always appear our dialogues with the guests,
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  curiosities, because we are eternal curious about things that we do not understand well,
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  but more than curiosity, are relevant questions that we are going to talk
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  about today. For example, look at our first interview we have here in
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  study with David Perez. David Pérez is a teacher, but he is also
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  the director of a ministry called OZ and this ministry is a ministry of help
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  and how to deal with the issue of pornography, a subject of rabid current
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  affairs, the government is trying to get out of the way of a society
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  that is sick with sex addiction and this distortion of the hypersexualization we are living
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  in. So, this is a topic to talk about and to speak it
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  out, and to speak it out in an authoritative way. And David Prez
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  knows what he' s talking about is a lecturer. We have had it
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  in different forums with us I think it is one of the key people for
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  dealing with the issue of pornography, which is a social pandemic. Look outside
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  in the secular world, but within the Christian churches themselves, I no longer
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  say evangelical, Catholic, interfaith. This has become a real pandemic that needs
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  to be tackled because it destroys. It' s totally self- destructive and
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  we' ll talk to him about how to overcome pornography addiction. But there
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  ' s a lot more we' ll talk about here. But he also
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  teaches courses that are of a process, of a period to work this seriously
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  and in depth we talk with David Pérez. Don' t miss it here
• 5:16
  on the train of life, our friend Daniel Ofkan, pro journalist wherever they
• 5:26
  are, director of digital Protestants as always with that agile milk of Daniel and
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  we talk a little bit about today. We looked a little at the current
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  window. One thing that will not overlook us is the sporting illusion that our
• 5:41
  selection is reaching the end of the Eurocup and that we can win it.
• 5:46
  It' s possible, it' s very possible. We' ll see
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  about Sunday. There are swords high, but also some other question of the
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  social and political chronicle, of general interest, some notes and some questions also
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  of our Protestant realm, where we have things to say to make a bet
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  a day. Don' t miss the other side of the other look today.
• 6:13
  With Daniel Ozena here on the train of life and our friend Joaquin there
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  is a true dean of shepherds. You know, Joaquin Llebra is a very
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  multifaceted man, he' s a pro- Hebraist whom I think he'
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  s the best I' ve ever known in our country as a workman.
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  He is also a university professor of English philology. Well he' s a
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  man who has an impressive résumé, magnificent theologian, and we wanted to talk
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  to him about a subject that looks, looks good, a little inconsequential,
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  but he' s not so much. Hey, we talked about it.
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  It' s sin. Sin, sab En, the sin of a religious
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  lie, is the repressive idea of Jewish Christianity. Or what sin is.
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  Someone can' t really explain it in a clear way, not in an
• 7:09
  anodyne way, and sometimes they say it in a somewhat caricatured way. Or
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  spermetic. Someone can explain it well and if it is true this sin actually,
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  how it affects us. Well, then, don Joaquin Yebra is going
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  to help us this morning here on the train of life. Don' t
• 7:26
  miss it too. Let' s go there with me You can send your
• 7:33
  message through our Facebook. Through our Facebook. Entering in three double months,
• 7:36
  point the train of life, point is the train of life, point is.
• 7:42
  They remember that this way you collaborate with us. Tell us your impressions,
• 7:46
  ask us and participate actively. We want to meet you, we want
• 7:51
  to meet you. He' ll be on our page. Well, three
• 7:56
  month double point, the train of life. Point is, and if we
• 8:00
  so, powerful, invincible, admirable, great strong God, King of amazing
• 8:22
  unmatched kings are all mighty amazing your great tersincreti fortunes little money or wow Wow,
• 9:11
  Wow Wow? Believe invensibe my God, only you alone you are amazing
• 10:18
  and I feel my God only you alone you are incredible invesie my God only
• 10:31
  you alone you are incredible, inventible look only you alone you are unbeliever and
• 10:41
  I feel my healthy self you only you or flower live and I sibe mali
• 10:48
  yasa tesa so sinve so poweros are great single resis if laugh without or power
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  so big silent and go you die sine Christ jumper I heal you only you
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  are not increib and c receive my healthy self your are about is unbelieve and
• 11:54
  I sibe my are Martin to the beach back and back to a mountain port,
• 12:05
  to the people to see your grandparents to your brother- in- law
• 12:09
  ' s apartment, to deafen to lose you to your partner this summer.
• 12:13
  It doesn' t matter where you come from or where you' re going.
• 12:16
  What matters is that you think that the trip is also part of the
• 12:20
  holiday rests every two hours, respects the speed limits and the safety distance on
• 12:24
  foot by bike, motowo by car. What we want is for you to
• 12:28
  get here. Directorate- General for Traffic, Ministry of the Interior, Government
• 12:33
  of Spain. Juan invests 180 euros a month in suffering. Alberto invests 200
• 12:39
  euros in extortion, Carlos invests 150 euros in kidnappings. Every time you pay
• 12:43
  you' re investing in mobs, extortion, harassment, help them out,
• 12:48
  don' t invest in suffering against trafficking in women. Be aware of the
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  Spanish Government if you would like to visit our website, wwwwww. The train
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  of life, point, the train of dead life or s Ladies, gentlemen,
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  ladies and gentlemen, also welcome to this magisterial wagon, the train of
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  life with David Perez, welcome, David, thank you very much, thank
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  you for taking time. I know you' ve got your schedule too.
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  Uh, I don' t know, it' s a pleasure to have
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  you come from there from your town. I don' t care Cardedeu the
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  pretty cart de deusi Well, let' s talk about a topic, the
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  issue of addiction to pornography. It' s a plague, it' s
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  a social pandemic that right now. I' m going to question him He
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  ' s already given a vine on this subject. Pornography addiction is defined as
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  a compulsive and continuous consumption of pornographic material that negatively affects a person' s
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  life because it interferes with his or her personal, family and even work life.
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  It' s a very brief definition. There is much more to be
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  said about this and there are families who suffer from it and there are communities
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  or individuals who suffer from it and feel like a kind of prison that they
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  don' t know well. In fact, some have come to despair with
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  this issue as well and have committed madness. David, the addiction to pornography
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  is so broad. Before you talk about it, because I have heard you
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  at conferences and I see you on the forums and now Protestant Diffitial forms a
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  magnificent interview that is there and then they demand you for forums and conferences and
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  churches as well, but in public places and in the media and the truth
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  that we love, as you know what I like about the technical and familiar
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  question of the matter, but also with that dose of spirituality, that is
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  what sometimes they miss without exaggerating, it is as if they throw a lot
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  of room to the food or too much sugar sweets in the brain, then
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  it is lost, but when you know to season it with one thing and
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  more, in our case, in our field. But where does your interest
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  in working in depth with the issue of sex addiction come from in such a
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  perverted way as pornography? Where is it coming from? It comes from my
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  personal experience, from having overcome an addiction, but it comes from above also
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  because I did not overcome it, but Jesus freed me. And a little
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  later, Jesus himself called me to do it. So it wasn' t
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  my illusion to do it, nor was it a subject that interested me,
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  because, having been addicted eleven years, he doesn' t want to know
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  anything about that world. But God called me back and from there came an
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  experience of liberation and a call and what he hears. This is characteristic in
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  many cases of someone who has been on it and that when he says well,
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  Mr Ahabó, I no longer want to know about this. I'
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  m fine, and let someone else do it. And so it happened to
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  me also with a community that we opened up of drug rehabilitation in the eighties
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  and I came from that environment of the rabal And such and I told them
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  Lord I don' t want to know anything about that. It' s
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  good. It got me into it not and we were practically ten years almost
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  and then we gave it to him to rhyme. But, well, there
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  are people who came out cured. Among them a Juan Pasquina, who has
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  a well- known center of the room, but means you see the benefit
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  of because you have as a vaccine effect. When the one who has experienced
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  it and teaches it, but also you teach it in a very didactic way,
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  very well informed, then the idea is born from there, from that
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  is his experience. Yeah, yeah, he gets out of there. It
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  doesn' t mean that everyone who suffers from addiction then has to help others.
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  I don' t think it' s something that applies to everyone,
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  but when you' ve lived in your flesh and the person you talk to
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  knows you' ve lived it. There is much more trust, there is
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  much more empathy and also someone from outside is helping you out. Therefore,
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  it gives you hope that you can get out. Or he' s talking
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  to the guy last week that he was telling me, but of course,
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  you' re telling me, but you can really get out of here and
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  I don' t see it in you, but I can' t imagine
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  I don' t have a person who' s the example of getting out.
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  With Jesus helps very clearly, there are tools, therapeutic treatments, psychotherapeutics,
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  guidelines that is good, something that is available also, but that does
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  not always give the desired result, no, unfortunately, but good in some
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  cases, yes, in others no, because, for example, But what
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  is addiction to pornography? How would you define it as an addiction to pornography?
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  I' d say it' s addiction to sick behavior and slavery to
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  get a dose of tiny dopamine and have orgasms with this mixture of chemicals in
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  the brain, which is explosive. So it' s not so much that
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  I get hooked on pornography, but that my brain produces such a lot of
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  chemicals that, in the end, I just want that and everything gets numb
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  from another kind of pleasure, this kind of life. And you can only
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  get that, because it' s only within reach of the toughest drugs that
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  the brain produces with pornography. And besides, you, when you' re
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  masturbating by watching it, you' re creating a bond with what you'
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  re seeing, so you' re physically, spiritually, neuronally hooked, even
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  a high of hormones that nothing in the real world can compare to, of
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  course, because clearly, pornography is one, it' s an supra-
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  reality that doesn' t even happen in sexual intercourse. Well, we don
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  ' t talk about using wild compulsive sex masochism that that' s sporadic cases
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  and that also reveal a dysfunction in sexual intercourse. But it' s such
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  a brutal distortion of sexuality that, of course, it creates addiction. No
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  yes, that is what is called a super abnormal stimulus, which is an
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  exaggerated version of something that already happens in something that is present in real life.
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  For example, when we see a McDonald' s ad that' s
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  food, but there' s the adulterated image and it' s bright and
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  smoke comes out and it' s playful and it' s a lot of
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  version. Doesn' t look like the burger you take, but your brain
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  is saying yes, yes, yes, yes? I want that, yeah.
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  The truth that happens with people when they show them to you on screen
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  at that level of excitement they end up attracting you more than real people do.
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  I remember when I was young, I met Jesus at the age of
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  eighteen, but as much as I had been able to see were magazines in
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  those years, no, and obviously you were there. He wasn' t
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  addicted to this, much less sexually promiscuous, but he wasn' t addicted
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  to this. But I found it very beast, very wild yet and not
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  being a believer with Christian values. I didn' t think it was very
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  wild, because they were tickling what it is now, what it is now
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  look at. It' s just that already, well, I haven'
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  t seen it because but I received an important and I don' t feel
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  like knowing either, because there are so many people in all social settings that
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  good that social appearance and such seems normalized, but that they are addicted to
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  sex and about compulsive sexual relations. That' s, that' s a
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  disease. No, but this is I say, it has become the whole
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  hillbilly say because it is not only men who have a more or compulsive bestiality.
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  It' s also women. True, yes, there are more and
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  more women who since young people are getting pornography because, even if it is
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  sexual content, it is the excitement that produces it is the pleasure that the
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  brain produces that engages you more than the images. In fact, addicts confess
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  to you. I' ve been seeing things I don' t even like.
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  That doesn' t appeal to me if I use my mind. This
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  is not logical, I don' t like it, but my brain asks
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  for more and more. It' s the same with women. More and
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  more outside and inside the church are consuming pornography. There, too, pornography
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  in all areas, but also in homosexuals, but of all kinds. Sure,
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  hopefully everything you can imagine has a porn genre Yes, yes, yes,
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  so of course now it seems that the government wants very much I say
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  a little LII with this kind of folder of the law exactly did not go
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  deep. I think he' s the scribe minister. I don' t
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  know if he' s proposing this issue. How about one of those is
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  like almost nothing. I don' t think it' s a good sign
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  that society, titles. Therefore, society is beginning to see that, at
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  least for children, the consumption of pornography is something that must be avoided.
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  So, to me it' s already great, great news. Five years
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  ago we wouldn' t be talking about this. What happens to me is
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  that yes, well, besides it' s technically very complicated, very complicated
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  to control that there' s the notion that for adults watching good pornography or
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  a healthy dose of pornography is totally sustainable. And for me there' s
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  the mistake. We adults have to understand that it' s not doing us
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  any good, plus disturbing us with pornography. Of course, in no case,
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  because then pornography creates, I would say dysfunctional pathology. Right questions how
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  to understand, for example, when you see a woman as a sexual object.
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  Purely from there sexual assaults are also in many cases motivated by the influence
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  of sex addiction, the perversion of the idea. Of course, the most
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  important sexual organ is the brain. And when from the age of ten you
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  are seeing hard sex and learning to have orgasms and to connect neuronally with those
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  images and those actions, the sex that you can have an intimate relationship of
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  respect does not meet those expectations, because it does not give the same high.
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  So there are many people who are forced to try other things or ask
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  for other things to have the same level of excitement or even introduce videos,
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  because if I can' t reach orgasm, because I have to masturbate,
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  I can have sex with my wife without pornography. There are people who say
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  good. I occasionally see pornography or such or couples who even use pornography to
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  get more excited and in sexual intercourse, because they think they don' t
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  give much of themselves or they' re out there frigidity or whatever it was.
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  And then that emulation, that, that' s it. I think
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  that' s the wrong one. Not good. It' s bringing other
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  people to your marriage bed, it' s opening your bedroom door, introducing
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  strangers who are fornicating or aching. There' s nothing positive about that for
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  me, plus if you talk to addict wives, because yes, it'
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  s true that there are women, but every time there are, there are
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  always more men. Wives are usually humiliated by comparison to people who see on
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  the screen and those who excite their husband. Then they quickly feel betrayed and
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  inward about what their husband is used to masturbating. See Hey really what it
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  said that the social appearance of so many good people, but that being hooked
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  is a plague in the social sphere at a general level. Well people are
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  saying I am a pornographer, but they are there is a fact that being
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  and within the Christian realm of all confessions professed a faith that seems to have
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  values to guard itself from sexual disorder, but there are also quite serious problems.
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  In fact, what we see is that the numbers of society as a
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  whole are not very different from those of the Church. It is something in
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  which the Church has adopted the culture, the way of being of the world,
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  and we are seeing numbers never surprising, but it is of all men
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  and women. Four out of ten are usually watching porn. Men in three
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  are seeing him weekly in leadership. There is the same more than one in
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  three leaders in the Church are with tremendous porn. Almost half. They saw
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  before the age of twelve and we saw a claim that was that one in
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  three Christians. It is true that the vast majority answered evangelicals, but one
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  in three Christians admit that they tried to stop consuming porn and not have succeeded
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  in it. This is, this is scary. It' s good,
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  first for those who suffer from it, themselves and their partners when they'
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  re couples. And there' s an impact on the family for the children.
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  Of course it is this inheritance for the children, even if the first
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  - hand children know it. But there you are making a subjective transmission about
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  the family. In short, addiction through sex pornography is a total human disaster.
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  It is a frontal attack on the most sacred and most nuclear institution in
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  society, which is marriage and the family. It is a frontal attack directed
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  from the dark to destroy people and their families and it does. Besides,
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  if from common sense we say good. But this, besides, isn'
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  t this real? This isn' t real? This isn' t real?
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  Isn' t that real? But if I want to subdue you to
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  that to stimulate and go the same way, either you' re a lava
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  fool or you get caught and in the end you' re stuck in the
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  reg or you' ve grown up before having the first kiss you' ve
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  seen a gang rape on a screen and you' ve gotten excited about it.
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  Then there' s no other way to look at this kind of savagery.
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  But, for example, how to know if you' re addicted to
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  watching pornography, what are the signs that might be for you? I'
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  m a porn addict. For example, there are things like this idea of
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  watching pornography, having sex with my right partner. Sometimes I' d rather
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  watch pornography than meet my partner or friends. I' m having a hard
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  time spending a whole day without watching pornography. I' ve been switching my
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  leisure to recreational activities for the consumption of pornography. The graphic porn content you
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  are looking for has to be more intense for more exciting. Not then,
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  these are all questions that are practically pathological. Not if you can stop to
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  see that I don' t know, I put my job at risk,
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  for example, because I' m consuming in my workplace or my school performance
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  is going down a lot, because I can only think about this. I
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  no longer stay with my friends but I would go a little further and I
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  would also think I see for not as long as I am sad or whenever
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  I am stressed, it is my place of refuge, even if it is
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  once every three months it doesn' t matter when I am alone that I
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  seek this pornography because it is a slavery and it is an idol, then
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  you go, when you are wrong, it is not only the frequency,
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  but it is to orbit around this false god which is pornography, it is
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  to know that when I am angry with my partner, that is where I
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  am going to go, when it is always there is the son as an
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  idol and creates slavery. The theme is that, slavery, not just editing,
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  slavery that you can' t make of yourself. And, moreover,
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  it is pernicious, because it distorts reality in every way, the reality of
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  sexual relationship in any case and it is but how pleasure works this in this
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  clear. There' s a gratification there. You have said before that one
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  seeks self- gratification through pornography, but how does that sense of pleasure and
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  expert work. But they' re talking about neurotransmitters, which are the hormones
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  the brain produces. When neurons are joined together, they connect with each other
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  and a chemical reaction occurs that creates pleasure. So, for example, if
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  I am always together an orgasm with a woman naked better naked, these two
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  neurons thanks to dopamine, they connect, then, every time I see that,
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  I will feel that need to masturbate more and more until they develop,
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  get used to and stop having so much sensitivity to neurons, because they can
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  ' t manage so much pleasure and then you have to look more extreme so
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  that again you have the same feeling. It' s all in the Olympic
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  system of the brain. It is the most animal part God designed to benefit
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  us, because, for example, when a woman is nursing babies, the
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  two people are having success in their brain, which is the hormone of bonding,
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  of attachment to well- being, because the survival of one depends on
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  the other. That' s God' s designs. The brain that like
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  rewards us things that are good for us, but pornography, like the other
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  drugs, comes to destroy this natural and divine level of rewards. They are
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  treats that the brain gives, but at a much higher level. It'
• 32:35
  s the same thing with tiktok and it' s a very descriptive way of
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  begging and very didactic, and how you can get clear pornography. One makes
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  an incursion into pornography and I' ve already looked around and I' m
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  leaving like that, but how can it become addiction in that, because almost
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  this is cheating. There are no different risk factors, but usually yes.
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  If it' s a child' s first quote sexual situation, this first
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  memory is going to stay there forever, because it' s the first.
• 33:08
  The first time I, for example, were three brothers, the first time
• 33:12
  I saw a naked woman' s body that wasn' t my mother.
• 33:16
  It was with pornography. That, but how old you were, for example,
• 33:20
  I was eleven when I was first. That' s why my amazement
• 33:22
  is that children are a plague of children. Now how is that, because
• 33:27
  they have mobile phones and tables all day in hand. But, but it
• 33:30
  ' s barbarous and clear. Already there is generated a distortion of that of
• 33:36
  human sexuality and an addiction, a pathology, because a child, when he
• 33:40
  sees it, feels at the same time, if I remember perfectly, he
• 33:45
  feels at the same time disgusted as what this is and at the same time
• 33:50
  fascination with the chemist and the chemicals of the brain. Then he doesn'
• 33:53
  t know how to distinguish between one thing and the other. And he feels
• 33:55
  the best shame, because this shouldn' t be seeing what this is.
• 33:58
  But it happens. He has received such a dose that the brain is growing,
• 34:02
  such a dose of pleasure that quickly asks him to see him again.
• 34:06
  If there' s a person. It is usually the case of addictions that
• 34:09
  end up developing, because there is a medicinal use of that. Then,
• 34:14
  when someone is in a broken family or has emotional deficiencies of some kind,
• 34:20
  they are more at risk of resorting to pornography in a medicinal way. In
• 34:24
  the end, we' re all wrong and we' re all in trouble.
• 34:29
  And when the porn is erected as a momentary solution, very momentary of
• 34:34
  these pleases these problems, there is the risk of getting hooked, because every
• 34:37
  time I' m like this I' m going to go. There you
• 34:43
  have to see the things that if they explain them to us in this didactic
• 34:49
  way, because we understand them superficially. I' m not a porn addict.
• 34:54
  Not from what point one can say I have a problem. I tried
• 35:00
  to leave him. I can' t, I can' t have orgasms
• 35:06
  without imagining or remembering these images that I' ve seen almost catch me when
• 35:13
  you have the feeling of having to clean your history and have situations of maximum
• 35:19
  adrenaline risk, because I consumed in places, in very inappropriate situations. When
• 35:22
  you see that it dominates you, it' s something you can' t
• 35:24
  stop doing. It' s a sample if you' re thinking about it
• 35:31
  like this I' m addicted or not waiting for a week without seeing and
• 35:37
  without masturbating, because when you masturbate, having seen pornography, you' re
• 35:42
  remembering those images, because try it to see how your body reacts, because
• 35:47
  there really is withdrawal syndrome tremors sweat. You can only think about that.
• 35:49
  If you have these signs, you would have to pose some of the most
• 36:01
  complicated consequences of addiction to watching pornography, which can be separation from God,
• 36:07
  shame, guilt and double life, in a double- life feeling of having
• 36:12
  to gain in public what is dirty in intimacy. Jesus did not speak of
• 36:17
  the secret place of the important. That' s where only the father sees
• 36:22
  you. That' s where your character is shown and who you are.
• 36:23
  But when you see for a faith, you don' t see it in
• 36:25
  public. You can be a shepherd, for the leader of praise can give
• 36:29
  things to others and seem like a very divine person, but it is if
• 36:34
  in the secret of your room you are masturbating with prostitution. That destroyed your
• 36:38
  life and destroyed your testimony as well as your family, because it' s
• 36:43
  infidelity. Sure. In the end you see that faith and being Christians makes
• 36:47
  no sense when I am a railing that I am involved here in this whole
• 36:52
  affair an adulterer. I' m not telling you to fool me right there
• 36:57
  and let you crawl in the stream. And or you don' t get
• 37:00
  out of this, because there are people who chronicle the problem, create a
• 37:07
  perpetuity of the problem and live with it. Yeah, my whole life is
• 37:09
  my weakness, it' s my little problem. We all have our struggles.
• 37:13
  Whoever is free of sin who throws the first stone, are excuses not
• 37:17
  to want to face, that there are things inside you that are wrong and
• 37:22
  that is why you use pornography and it is not to see it as adultery.
• 37:25
  I think it also makes it very difficult to get out, I mean,
• 37:29
  well to see I' m not going with anyone, I' m
• 37:32
  alone with a screen. It' s my thing. But when you see
• 37:35
  that you are hurting your husband or your wife, there you have to make
• 37:39
  clear when you are not married and how you are damaging your own body.
• 37:43
  Always, after all, the temple for Christians is the temple of the human
• 37:45
  body. This may seem like a paradox, but it' s not,
• 37:51
  it' s a wonderful reality. I' ve told you before. My
• 37:53
  experience is that I knew Jesus at the age of eighteen and came from such
• 37:58
  a complicated world. But I started to the real dogs that you have struggles
• 38:05
  and blind and attacks to let you drag along the current. But when that
• 38:12
  is somehow implanted the testimony of God, I do not find the genuine one
• 38:20
  and you maintain that line. Mr Saves You keeps being and if for whatever.
• 38:24
  You fell for this, because you can leave immediately. No, but
• 38:30
  this is perverse because it denatures your right essence. It dehumanizes you. It
• 38:35
  makes you a totally carnal person and nothing spiritual. No one can Gabriel bust
• 38:43
  said you can' t see because you' re not right with God.
• 38:46
  It' s impossible. It can be shown, but being well, being
• 38:50
  in your spirit united with God, is separated from sin. You understand human.
• 38:57
  But when I' m sinning and hitting and hitting, I' m
• 38:59
  walking away. Of course, of course, it is true that God’
• 39:02
  s grace is wonderful. But if we act and react and if not,
• 39:08
  if there is no repentance, repentance, repentance stops everything right. Repentance is
• 39:15
  what beats the brake rebon. I have said repentance even has judgment in the
• 39:21
  case when you are not a believer, not the final judgment where every human
• 39:27
  being who has not responded to God in time will pay, because God loves
• 39:30
  us and notice what he has done for us in Christ. But repentance has
• 39:36
  the judgment and because then it begins and in the Christian life repentance has to
• 39:43
  be genuine. It' s true. But sometimes I ask myself people who
• 39:46
  are so addicted, it' s not easy for them. That' s
• 39:52
  why we' re going to see if we' re talking about the Christian
• 40:00
  sphere, which we might say we could be simpler to talk about recovery,
• 40:06
  because you in the secular realm talk about this. Well, yeah, now
• 40:07
  they' re seeing it as a problem when they see it as a problem
• 40:10
  because they' re creating some bestial pathologies, especially in children and others.
• 40:15
  And that' s how the issue of pornography has been socialized. The pernicious
• 40:22
  effects are being seen in a way that is already quite uncompromising. But in
• 40:27
  the Christian sphere at least we say good, let' s be realistic.
• 40:31
  This happens between us, who must make leaders or companions or mentors for people
• 40:37
  who have this problem. We' ll talk about the off course that'
• 40:44
  s very interesting. Ladies and gentlemen, take good note in a moment we
• 40:46
  will give you all the indications that the course that is going to start firm
• 40:52
  in September, but how we can help so many people. I, in
• 40:58
  my pastoral care of the years, encounter this problem frequently in marriages, in
• 41:05
  particular it is in all Indians then and how we can help. I think
• 41:12
  the first thing is to be honest with yourself, because if we have a
• 41:17
  third of the leaders who are consuming pornography, a blind man cannot lead another
• 41:22
  blind man. Of course, they both fall into the hole then. What
• 41:24
  I think first of all avoids which pastors can help is that they are in
• 41:30
  this problem. So if you have, you have people who have this problem,
• 41:35
  but you say well, they can' t bring it out, but
• 41:37
  of course they need me to get out. You' re not going,
• 41:38
  neither of you are going to come out then, of course, first examine
• 41:43
  the heart and be willing to go through a recovery process and then I would
• 41:49
  say learn about it. There is a lot if, like you there are
• 41:52
  people in a generation that has not been born with this extreme Internet pornography.
• 41:55
  Now I can read you about what it is. It can help a lot
• 42:01
  to see that it' s not like, it' s not a degenerate
• 42:04
  of is a person who has lost control of his mind. He cannot manage
• 42:07
  to get compassion in that sense. But also firm as to whether you repent,
• 42:14
  you can find life if there really is genuine repentance, not a woe
• 42:17
  is that I have this, but I will do it again. You can
• 42:22
  help people. I think we should also talk about it. There are many
• 42:27
  people who ask for help and they think that no one in the Church can
• 42:31
  help them because no one has talked about it, no one has put out
• 42:35
  an application in pornography, no one has reached out. Everyone thinks he'
• 42:37
  s the only one and looks at the numbers saying the opposite. It'
• 42:40
  s hard to find someone who doesn' t, but everyone thinks they won
• 42:44
  ' t be able to talk to anyone about it. So, if you
• 42:45
  mention it, you often go saying there are tools, you offer your hand
• 42:51
  when you' re in a group of men, because you bring up the
• 42:54
  subject or eating with someone, because it' s the porn that you think
• 42:58
  you get out. Make it out of the dark to the light can help
• 43:01
  you have this hand, but I understand that only someone who wants to come
• 43:07
  out is going to come out. Someone you don' t, though much
• 43:08
  as you face it, won' t come out because you have to admit
• 43:13
  you' re upset. Clear stermal aid, possible helper or companion after.
• 43:20
  But before that there would be something else we' re going to talk about.
• 43:22
  Before you get to that, you have to be a person who,
• 43:25
  of course, doesn' t have a problem with that, but we are.
• 43:29
  It' s a beastly contradiction. Besides, I think it' s
• 43:31
  stupid gender or we' re going and useless to do that. No,
• 43:37
  but a treatment of addiction to pornography for how to stop watching and consuming pornography.
• 43:45
  And that' s where it comes into action. Or, for example,
• 43:47
  not how to perform a treatment, because this is a treatment, this
• 43:53
  is not a place plash. No. No. In my case, the
• 43:59
  release of pornography was immediate, but it took eight years to heal the root,
• 44:05
  because porn is not the problem. Porn is a way to solve a
• 44:10
  problem and in off what we have is a process along with someone from your
• 44:15
  local leadership, in which it is a year of not only abstinence from masturbation
• 44:21
  or pornography, but there is a deep work of the roots of this addiction.
• 44:25
  There is an insectious search for the holy spirit and see what really happens
• 44:31
  to me to get out of there. I don' t want to masturbate,
• 44:34
  I don' t want to watch pornography. Go deeper. This is
• 44:35
  basic, because if you sin you become hardened, but when you have stopped,
• 44:39
  you have filtered it, it has done whatever it wants, then you
• 44:43
  start because you have to say why I am seeing, because it is what
• 44:46
  my soul seeks, heal, satiate, because it is a broken cistern.
• 44:52
  Seek that slit, ask the spirit to show it and heal it. Then
• 44:55
  external behavior is not necessary, because there is no such emotional or spiritual lack.
• 45:01
  There are spiritual ties. We also need to go much further. Then,
• 45:07
  when someone asks for help from on Off, they are assigned to a
• 45:09
  fellow fighter who is going to walk with him, along with someone of their
• 45:14
  local leadership in this process of seeing why I came here and find in intimacy
• 45:21
  with God. The solution to everything wasn' t for her all my life,
• 45:25
  she' s going around. What we say about Ennoff is that porn
• 45:28
  tried to destroy us, but God is redeeming it to call us into intimacy
• 45:34
  with him that we had never had before. This is what happened to me,
• 45:37
  how beautiful and how true I totally subscribe to that. But the subject
• 45:42
  of shame, because there are people who are in this are resigne and say
• 45:45
  well, I am a bastard who or himself is the mental soliloquium. No,
• 45:51
  yes, but I don' t know anything here anymore and the shame
• 45:55
  of saying and that, to see it' s miserable when they know that
• 46:00
  I' m a guy like that give it how and all this mental discourse
• 46:05
  traps you, it sinks you more yes, then of course it' s
• 46:12
  the feeling of shame to expose someone. That' s not why how to
• 46:16
  create a climate of trust, because deep down, I think many of the
• 46:20
  trapped, not all, but a few will think. I would have to
• 46:27
  go out here, but I don' t know how and then how to
• 46:35
  help someone who initially afterwards although has to undergo a process, because there has
• 46:38
  been generated an evil, a very serious distortion, that has to be restored
• 46:43
  or redeemed, as you have said, but that feeling of shame, of
• 46:50
  feeling miserable, an unfortunate, irredeemable, how we can approach it. It
• 46:55
  ' s just that I think it' s good news to feel desperate and
• 47:00
  without any help It' s me that saved me. I grew up in
• 47:02
  the Church and thought I was saved, but pornography was my chance to realize
• 47:07
  that I wasn' t one of those I was in but I wasn'
• 47:12
  t from the Church, I wasn' t born again. Then I think
• 47:15
  it' s good to get to that point. I can' t.
• 47:20
  The question is if I want to, because if someone is so desperate that
• 47:25
  he says oh this I die, then he' ll be able to confess
• 47:30
  it to whoever he is. So you have to worry about wanting this space?
• 47:34
  You have to worry about a vulnerability of a safe space, not in
• 47:37
  public, not with a double life, but genuity. One by one opening
• 47:42
  the space, because if someone is truly desperate they will ask for help.
• 47:47
  The problem is that we give ourselves, take the grace of God, not
• 47:52
  and say good to see how many more times I can fall until I play
• 47:57
  with my salvation or harm the Holy Spirit. I' m going to look
• 48:00
  for the limit and those people looking for the limit are not going out and
• 48:05
  they' re not going to ask for help, because you' re always
• 48:07
  alone. Like you said, it' s a good soliloquium, it'
• 48:08
  s a dialogue with demons, I mean, I' m going to be
• 48:12
  good this time. Yeah, well, when this crisis happens, when I
• 48:14
  get married, you have your fight, but if you don' t die
• 48:17
  at all, you can' t live. I' m done. Jesus,
• 48:20
  how interesting this is the way out, of the redemption of a question
• 48:25
  as catchy as the addiction to pornography, edict, sex, sex, but
• 48:32
  wild and, moreover, totally dislocated this subject to talk to us a little
• 48:40
  oz and as someone who wants to say hear, I don' t know
• 48:45
  how, but of course it' s confidential, it' s private and
• 48:51
  such, but I want you to get out of this or someone in the
• 48:55
  family and we' re going to talk to you, or sometimes there are
• 49:00
  couples who are also both hooked on the subject. Yeah, then, okay.
• 49:02
  In any case, how to get in touch in order to get into
• 49:08
  a course of this, because it takes how long the course lasts you refer
• 49:14
  to the accompanying process. This is a one- year one- year process,
• 49:16
  but in this year it may happen that there is a click at twenty
• 49:20
  days. Then we follow up, but it is a year to focus on
• 49:23
  this restoration of my soul. There is a button on our website that is
• 49:29
  off just Love as just love or just love of chuost Love org. There
• 49:36
  ' s a red button that puts help. There you can write and you
• 49:37
  get a link to the Whatsapp that we have as off and there you can
• 49:43
  write, you can write on Instagram, which is arroba of just Love too
• 49:46
  and there you can say hey. I need help getting out. No.
• 49:50
  This isn' t gonna come out. No one' s sharing your data.
• 49:53
  It' s confidential and you' re going to be assigned to a
• 49:57
  person who' s going to be talking to you and explaining to you what,
• 50:02
  what the whole process is and you decide if you want to take it.
• 50:04
  You cannot write to Instagram or the web or whatsap directly that is there.
• 50:07
  There' s a little button on the web. Hoz then on Instagram.
• 50:14
  How it appears like this is arroba Off fair Lover George Love Vale well,
• 50:20
  well there is this. They hear it firsthand. They' ve taken
• 50:22
  note and if they don' t hear it again and again. It has
• 50:25
  been repeated three or four times by David and anyone of us will put it
• 50:34
  in it we will also upload the link to our wall so that people can
• 50:40
  make it visible and can derive it to the direct information, because to begin,
• 50:49
  for example, there is an initial course in September. The thing that
• 50:51
  ' s gonna start in September. It is a course we take every month
• 50:53
  and a half two months with the infa, which is for leadership, is
• 50:59
  for people who want to help others. This is what we say tools to
• 51:05
  understand, restore and prevent panography, because we need this in the leaders,
• 51:10
  to have that formation, because it is a pastoral in the cure of souls
• 51:17
  and in all this is a very frequent problem to be found in different versions.
• 51:24
  Yes, there are more and more tools, more books and there are
• 51:28
  things, but we have compiled from different authors friends of the Ministry, a
• 51:35
  basic guide to enter this world. And there is also the possibility that you
• 51:37
  call us and say you can come to my denomination or my church with the
• 51:42
  counseling group and make us a whole morning to get into the subject. Those
• 51:47
  workshops also make them right. Yes with us you have taught them in one
• 51:52
  of them and some of our churches as well and we are in it because
• 52:00
  there is a real need, that is, we want to help people in
• 52:04
  many ways, and one of the ways that they are really self- destructive
• 52:10
  prow, of the most perverse is this. But we don' t know
• 52:14
  at all how we don' t or don' t know anything. And
• 52:17
  then you have to have some keys, some guidelines to follow. So that
• 52:22
  resource is ideal for that, to have a picture of what it consists of,
• 52:29
  how to help and how to prevent. Remember us. The name again
• 52:31
  the name of the course, yes, the cousation. It is called prevention
• 52:36
  and pastoral editing to pornography the infa. But if you go to the website
• 52:39
  of Off Just Love Ork, there comes out like a window pla, perfect,
• 52:45
  perfect Wow. David is not an issue that interests us all. For
• 52:50
  the good of many people and, above all, to safeguard any one of
• 52:57
  us from something that distorts everything and can make us dust, but also to
• 53:05
  the young generation, not that it is so easily good. We were talking
• 53:08
  about children, but young people one day the consumption of pornography is brutal,
• 53:14
  not so widespread and there are almost no differences between men and women, that
• 53:17
  is, between boys and girls. In teenagers it' s something that'
• 53:22
  s already normal. Now it' s funny when the woman hasn' t
• 53:28
  been so sex addicted because she has other connotations. Not now it turns out
• 53:35
  I notice it. Aside from what I read, from what I live,
• 53:37
  from what I know, from what I perceive and from what is seen in
• 53:40
  the environment, one must not be any scholar to see what is already there.
• 53:45
  It just seems that if you don' t have wild experiences with you
• 53:52
  ' re not a person, a person updated, you' re not completely
• 54:00
  liberated or liberated in this case, and I think this is also born of
• 54:05
  an interesting complex, of a complex, because you' re who you are
• 54:08
  and you' re who you are and you don' t have to prove
• 54:14
  from yourself that you have to be a liberated woman or and for that you
• 54:16
  can get into all these. But the same thing happens to men, to
• 54:19
  boys, that I have to learn to be a person without strong feelings that
• 54:24
  dominates women. It' s a complex saying I want to prove that I
• 54:30
  ' m not weak, that I haven' t effeminate and I have to
• 54:34
  learn the brutality of pornography, that is, it hurts us all equally.
• 54:37
  There' s not much difference. You see, what we all have,
• 54:42
  what this generation of young people have, is anxiety and depression, and what
• 54:49
  Bonography gives is a feeling that there are no medical pleasure problems, just like
• 54:53
  screens, like all social networks, but at a more extreme level, then
• 54:58
  it is not so much the material itself, but what allows me to cope
• 55:01
  with my damage and my shortcomings, especially in youth. One of the characteristics
• 55:09
  that has been spoken a lot that have been written these very popular works,
• 55:13
  sadomasochism, especially of the boys, and that this, therefore, has also
• 55:19
  been generalized, which is also a form of distortion of total sexuality. There
• 55:24
  ' s no more soft porn. Before there was soft porn and not hard
• 55:30
  and you could consume one thing more light or go to system stuff. Now,
• 55:34
  if you put in sex or an innocent word that I know thetas,
• 55:38
  you put it on Google and it just comes out of the tough one.
• 55:40
  The soft porn is already reggaeton video clips, the series. This kind of
• 55:45
  general culture is like it is. The bar has risen a thousand, the
• 55:49
  tide has risen and the zero level is already hypersexualization and sensuality, hypersensuality of
• 55:55
  everything, and clear governments if they wake up a little bit more or less
• 56:02
  to this unfortunate reality so pernicious for coexistence and for people and for their psychological
• 56:09
  health and their mood and for everything and family, then realize that here this
• 56:16
  is like when you said let' s not put limits to children, this
• 56:21
  has been a culture too repressive. Then and now we realize it. We
• 56:27
  have to set limits because it' s out of hand. We have gone
• 56:31
  to the other end in terms of the pedagogy of the personal development of the
• 56:38
  boys. But in this it' s the same. Now the government is
• 56:42
  saying uy here is a social problem that is reaching very high levels. We
• 56:50
  ' re reaping what we' ve sown. We have sown separation from the
• 56:53
  traditional Jewish Christian values that had been based in civilized Europe. We have deliberately
• 57:00
  left them behind, to say that they are retrograde and we want to go
• 57:05
  forward and we have progressed to where corruption is done, makes the destruction of
• 57:08
  the VI So we have to go back. But there is a blockade that,
• 57:10
  that is, today I cannot go back there, because it has already
• 57:14
  made a hate speech against everything that was good And now what I do say
• 57:19
  education, quality sex education based on self pleasure. That is the great formula
• 57:25
  that the government or associations have to stop the degradation of the by a no
• 57:31
  party. We will not teach them as children to seek their pleasure in masturbation
• 57:36
  and not to consume such porn, but to consume it feminist. That'
• 57:39
  s what society gives us. It is here that the Church has a chance
• 57:45
  to say hears, that it turns out that we have a book that many
• 57:51
  centuries ago, that shows what a man is, what a woman is,
• 57:52
  how they relate. And this design is the good thing, not for Christians,
• 57:55
  for everyone. So, if we live it out of our dream,
• 58:00
  let the Church live it, discover it a good sex, according to God
• 58:02
  ' s design, enjoy society. He' s gonna say we want this
• 58:07
  too. In the institutes where I go, the children of fourteen, fifteen,
• 58:12
  sixteen are tired of having tried everything and that is to see that it
• 58:15
  is so worse than before. And when you tell them, for example,
• 58:17
  that you' re only with one person, that you' re married,
• 58:21
  that you have family, they really say. I want that. Yes,
• 58:23
  yes, because God' s design is good for everyone. He used to
• 58:28
  call me good. I have in the family also teachers and also and there
• 58:34
  are people in the world of teaching and such told me the kids talk about
• 58:39
  sex constantly, sex toto everything. That' s an obsession. The subject
• 58:45
  of sex, no, but on a seemingly pornographic and non- pornographic level,
• 58:53
  but the subject sex continuously then clear, this is a clear is and
• 58:59
  there is a story. The clear society has been de- Christianized and said
• 59:02
  good, but Christianity has been very repressive. It has also been with political
• 59:06
  power, dictatorship. Well, let' s cut the crap. It'
• 59:08
  s dictatorship that we have nothing to do with it. A living faith in
• 59:14
  Jesus, an emancipating faith. I discovered myself when I became a true child
• 59:21
  of God, when I gave my life to Christ Jesus and asked him for
• 59:24
  forgiveness sincerely for my sins, and I felt that I was dirty and felt
• 59:30
  like washing my conscience and soul from a whole young life. But already dusted
• 59:37
  very early and then feeling renewed, changed from starting to walk. There are
• 59:45
  struggles in life, such but that with the holy spirit, which is wonderful,
• 59:50
  a saint espri him. Eh helps us so much great saints. Yeah,
• 59:54
  yeah, he' s the one who sanctifies us. It' s
• 59:58
  not the pure one, is it, but we have tools. Of course
• 1:00:00
  society, it' s been tempered. Christianity is retrograde, repressive, Christian
• 1:00:07
  Jewish culture. We have to take her out of the social imagery and be
• 1:00:14
  free and do whatever we want. But there are the others. We are
• 1:00:16
  reaping it, that we have named the sacred Totten fort this we have raised
• 1:00:22
  from sex to crazy and distorted sex. Okay, but there are exits.
• 1:00:28
  Ladies and gentlemen, here is the Ministry of David Perez. You can contact
• 1:00:35
  him. Directly, as you have said and if you don' t remember
• 1:00:38
  that you can also write. To Julio Pérez Arroba the train of life,
• 1:00:42
  point is I will lead them. Julio Pérez Arroba, the train of life,
• 1:00:45
  point is and I immediately refer to David and the course that will begin
• 1:00:52
  in September. Hey, David, it' s been a pleasure. Uh,
• 1:00:55
  it tastes like a little bit, but it' s not a little
• 1:00:58
  bit. What you' ve told us in a short time, you'
• 1:01:02
  ve left us here well served. Yeah, if I can do something in
• 1:01:05
  the end, yeah as if you' re hearing this and you think it
• 1:01:10
  ' s not gonna be the last try, it' s not gonna be
• 1:01:15
  I' m not going out, I' m going to try and I
• 1:01:15
  ' m going to fail you. I mean, Jesus is going to set
• 1:01:19
  you free, that Jesus keeps his word, that he is faithful. You
• 1:01:22
  have to repent and ask for help. If you do if you don'
• 1:01:25
  t, I' m sure you won' t. If you do it
• 1:01:28
  and you' ve really hit bottom, Jesus is going to get you out
• 1:01:31
  here, we' ll be there to walk with you. But it is
• 1:01:34
  he yes, yes, he liberates, yes, he liberates, wowy how
• 1:01:38
  beautiful, how important that real and that is an urgent appeal for the people,
• 1:01:44
  why we have an interest in helping people in so many human conflicts.
• 1:01:49
  Well, because God' s love has been poured into us and we feel
• 1:01:54
  the need to do what others did for us. I remember myself without initial
• 1:02:00
  mentors, not as they accompanied me and helped me get out of things that
• 1:02:06
  cost me too not and give me a good guide. But in this case
• 1:02:09
  look at an issue like the one we are dealing with, such as overcoming
• 1:02:14
  addiction to pornography, because here there is a real possibility and the last Council
• 1:02:21
  that David thought about to take it very seriously. David Pérez, my dear
• 1:02:24
  friend, thank you for being on the train of life, thanks to you
• 1:02:28
  we will see each other again and again as the exact life itself. Thank
• 1:02:35
  you so much. Thanks to r as in the train of life, fast
• 1:03:13
  with nothing and new under the sun all vanities to the spelt thread, but
• 1:03:37
  you scared him again adds crosses. Now I live how it was. A
• 1:03:52
  million times I' ll sing a million days of seeing your spirit take me
• 1:04:00
  where you are. A million more times. I want more of my name.
• 1:04:17
  No one seen you go, no one can imagine what it is.
• 1:04:29
  Boleira by dead, caniñacer, weeping or Ilo you drink Cantares, Oh,
• 1:04:46
  million babies did you drink? Your spirit takes me where you' re a
• 1:04:54
  million BsAs more, man, I see myself so much time or a million
• 1:05:01
  stockings you' ll see. Your spirit brings me donusas a million more needs,
• 1:05:09
  I of course more, a million times you deserve to be from a
• 1:05:23
  million pertine hynos, a million times it deserves mine from us oce oce or
• 1:05:38
  it deserves yes, from humble, from blind uritus are s or mine I
• 1:06:11
  am even so many things fas. Don' t cry. I want more.
• 1:06:54
  Hey, fellas. I' m Julio Perez. You know that I
• 1:07:00
  am the director of the radio program the weekly Magaxing, the train of life,
• 1:07:08
  and it does nothing less than thirty- two years that we travel through
• 1:07:13
  many human landscapes and many curiosities and things of life of earthly life and heavenly
• 1:07:17
  life. I also have the joy of telling you that I have published my
• 1:07:26
  book, a book that has to do with the train of life. There
• 1:07:30
  are fifty selected articles written by me. There are six seasons and in each
• 1:07:40
  season there is a section of eight reflections, temporary reflections for an eternal destiny.
• 1:07:46
  These are the things I tell in this book. They are perfections,
• 1:07:53
  analysis, experiences, comments that other curiosity also in those fifty reflections, in
• 1:08:01
  those six stations, until we reach the station, term that there is also
• 1:08:05
  a section, a very important block. This book can already be found on
• 1:08:11
  Amazon on the editorial platform of Amazón. Traveling on the train of life is
• 1:08:16
  entitled the book is the title of the book traveling on the train of life
• 1:08:21
  Julio Pérez, a server is the author. Then it can be good there.
• 1:08:29
  You know the train tells us about journeys through life. Life is a
• 1:08:34
  kind of living parable, like a train in motion, that there are so
• 1:08:40
  many sensations and experiences inside the train and what we are seeing inside and what
• 1:08:45
  we see from the train out, because there I propose that you be able
• 1:08:50
  to access this book, look at this book. I' ve done it
• 1:08:54
  with a lot of love. I think there are things that are very affectionate,
• 1:08:57
  very very intimate, and others not so many, are very open,
• 1:09:02
  but it is a book that I have done from the heart and with the
• 1:09:08
  heart traveling on the train of life is the title of a servant Julio Pérez
• 1:09:13
  on the editorial platform of Amazon. You can find him. The book has
• 1:09:18
  a cost of fifteen euros in about 180 pages, and everything collected from that
• 1:09:25
  book is invested, reinvested in the radio project of Onda Paz or Napau and
• 1:09:30
  in the train of life. Of course it is part of the project so
• 1:09:38
  that this is put on and kept going as long as it never stops So,
• 1:09:42
  I remind you and I thank you in advance for buying my book on
• 1:09:45
  the Amazon platform traveling on the train of the life of a Julio Pérez server.
• 1:09:54
  Thank you so much. So fragile your head in winter and so in
• 1:10:05
  summer. Your head is just as fragile all year round. That' s
• 1:10:10
  why, even if it' s hotter. This summer wear your helmet whenever
• 1:10:13
  you go on a motorcycle, because summer is full of life and lives.
• 1:10:17
  We' re all going next to you. Directorate- General for Traffic,
• 1:10:20
  Ministry of the Interior, Government of Spain. Never leave me alone in the
• 1:10:24
  bathtub or places with water. Don' t say they emit luis fingers and
• 1:10:27
  linchufe. Don' t leave me in any open window. I told you
• 1:10:30
  to use tonic substances orcamintos at my fingertips. You already let me swallow the
• 1:10:36
  small pieces of toys. If you neglect, your ojer can be dangerous for
• 1:10:41
  your children. Don' t worry, avoid accidents. So you want more
• 1:10:44
  Ministry of Health and Consumer Affairs Government of Spain that you travel on the train
• 1:10:53
  of life or you are n n. Ladies and gentlemen, well, we
• 1:12:03
  ' re already here with our good friend, the director of Protestant Digital,
• 1:12:10
  who is Daniel Ozcam journalist too, and we' re talking a little bit
• 1:12:16
  about some of today' s scraps. Well, in the summer, it
• 1:12:19
  seems like we' d like to get some rest from all that news,
• 1:12:25
  sometimes bad news or permanent riffitz riffy among politicians and unresolved issues. But not
• 1:12:32
  this, for this is unstoppable. The news is unstoppable when not the informative
• 1:12:39
  summer snakes that are things that appear in the summer, sometimes appear jumps,
• 1:12:45
  mayuscules. No, well, there we have our friend Daniel Occan. I
• 1:12:51
  welcome you. Good morning, Daniel Hello, Good morning, What, such
• 1:12:56
  Julio, how are you, well, delighted to have you here with us
• 1:12:59
  on the Daniel life train already almost closing season. At least well, there
• 1:13:04
  are already people who are on vacation in the first batch. But yes,
• 1:13:09
  yes, yes, some are already enjoying and you others are on the way.
• 1:13:13
  Sometimes those days come and you won' t have much left to escape.
• 1:13:17
  Little that, yes, yes, well, we have some getaways and
• 1:13:23
  the second shift of July is already more numerous. But then it' s
• 1:13:30
  August too. It' s already the big escape. It seems that the
• 1:13:32
  country is put on standbyte not in the sense of services. And such and
• 1:13:39
  good, but this is our country, Spain, is an eminently tourist country,
• 1:13:44
  it is one of our most important capitals in the economy. True,
• 1:13:49
  yes, well, of course, I don' t remember what the percentage
• 1:13:54
  is, but it was a very high percentage of Spain' s PBE,
• 1:13:59
  which is dependent on tourism. And this, moreover, is growing because,
• 1:14:02
  as we know, tourism in Spain continues to rise, that is, every
• 1:14:06
  year more travellers arrive, every year more people arrive from other countries who want
• 1:14:12
  to spend their holidays here. And, well, obviously, that also generates
• 1:14:16
  certain conflicts, certain tensions with people who, above all, live in the
• 1:14:24
  most overcrowded areas. But there is no doubt that it is a very important
• 1:14:31
  engine for the future of work and for the job and welfare stability that we
• 1:14:39
  have in this country. Yeah, well, the truth is good. It
• 1:14:42
  is an important impact on gross domestic product. We' re a solarium.
• 1:14:48
  The whole Iberian Peninsula and all the infrastructure we have. We are surrounded by
• 1:14:57
  water everywhere, except for one that is called, which is the interior,
• 1:15:00
  but we have the seas and such and we have a very privileged area.
• 1:15:08
  I think we end up with 80 to 90 million tourists all this year.
• 1:15:13
  It' s a record figure for it' s awesome. No, yeah,
• 1:15:16
  yeah, yeah. I think it should be stressed that it is a
• 1:15:25
  sector that continues to grow as we said and, moreover, that it does
• 1:15:30
  not look like it will stop growing in at least the next few years,
• 1:15:36
  because we have gone through a somewhat tighter stage of economy, let us say,
• 1:15:42
  and above all from the covid because there were some, a kind of
• 1:15:48
  world movement that seemed to be heading towards a general crisis, but now the
• 1:15:56
  international indicators do not really appear to mark that, that is, there is
• 1:16:00
  no expansion phase of growth, let us say very buoyant at the international level,
• 1:16:08
  at the general level, but not a great crisis either. I mean,
• 1:16:09
  it looks like we' re there in one and you don' t
• 1:16:12
  know where things are going to go, but not as bad as maybe many
• 1:16:15
  thought I could go. Nor is it so good, but let us say
• 1:16:19
  that there is general growth in the economies and I think that something that benefits
• 1:16:25
  Spain a lot with regard to other destinations is also the issue of stability and
• 1:16:30
  security. Spain remains a fairly safe destination and other places, as they cannot
• 1:16:35
  say the same. Do not imagine the same Israel last year, which supposes
• 1:16:41
  for the fact the tourist impact that will have for them the situation of war
• 1:16:46
  in which they are now. Same with the countries in Africa happens a little
• 1:16:51
  similar and then other countries around us, because sometimes they also go with their
• 1:16:57
  more and their less. And Spain, and in that sense we still have
• 1:17:00
  to say as a priority destination and very appetizing for many people who want to
• 1:17:06
  come here to spend their holidays. Of course it' s a tourist destination.
• 1:17:12
  Spain very appetizing economically at the exchange of currency, especially from European countries,
• 1:17:17
  is much more economical and the truth that it is for us is one
• 1:17:26
  of the sacred cows of the Spanish economy, because it is important and good.
• 1:17:32
  What happens is that also the other side of the ugly face of tourism
• 1:17:35
  is that important cities, Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia, now that it is
• 1:17:41
  also very fashionable good, and any part of the countries, that is,
• 1:17:45
  the regions of the north, Cantabria, Asturias, Galicia, that are beautiful,
• 1:17:51
  that people are going much more now to the north because to cool and
• 1:17:57
  see another scenario, not so much the sea, but the mountain and the
• 1:18:02
  green, and all that brings it. But really people in cities like Barcelona
• 1:18:08
  and Madrid, especially Barcelona, for example, there is a tourist saturation that
• 1:18:14
  is also becoming a problematic phenomenon for the neighborhood, for citizens. So here
• 1:18:23
  we have to handle this well. Yeah, yeah. In addition, I
• 1:18:28
  think that there is above all the issue of housing, the housing crisis that
• 1:18:32
  we have been living in our country for quite a few years now, which
• 1:18:36
  drags away the difficulty there is to find houses or rental flats and, instead,
• 1:18:45
  there is rent for holidays, not and vacation rentals. And like everything
• 1:18:50
  else, that' s leading to a greater difficulty for people to settle down
• 1:18:58
  in certain cities. All the cities are not suffering, but it is generally
• 1:19:00
  throughout the country we have been seeing how prices have been rising and of course,
• 1:19:05
  the more tourism arrives, because more can be inflated these prices of housing
• 1:19:11
  and rent, then let' s say there is a challenge. I think
• 1:19:16
  it is quite clear from now on in Spain and that surely as the months
• 1:19:23
  and years progress. It will be a very recurring problem and a very common
• 1:19:29
  theme in all political forums. We have already seen it this summer, for
• 1:19:35
  example, some cities that have begun to try to make some movement of regulation
• 1:19:40
  regarding the vacation rental that is theoretically regulated, but really the municipalities are not
• 1:19:46
  watching it and this market is very liberalized to the point that at the moment
• 1:19:55
  when some ayun has also tried to do something, because it has had quite
• 1:19:58
  difficult and use here, for example, in Galicia, it was news the
• 1:20:00
  City of Santiago that this year tried to carry forward an emotion to regulate these
• 1:20:08
  vacation rentals and finally did not go forward when the weight, because I put
• 1:20:15
  back in the proposal that was wanted to approve in the City Council. So
• 1:20:18
  we' re going to start seeing this as a top- notch political issue
• 1:20:21
  for every shameless person who comes, we' re already seeing it this summer.
• 1:20:26
  But without a doubt I believe that this is one of the issues and
• 1:20:29
  above all because it is very related also to the other important issue, which
• 1:20:31
  is that of the difficulty to access a housing, whether to buy it or
• 1:20:36
  to rent it, especially at the level of young people, that really slows
• 1:20:44
  down the development of a life, The fact of not being able to have
• 1:20:48
  a housing, to be able to access a place where one can establish itself
• 1:20:51
  more or less stable because it is a brake for the development of life and
• 1:20:57
  with all the consequences that has for society in general. Of course, we
• 1:21:01
  were talking about the pretty face of the matter, but it also has a
• 1:21:06
  counterface to the topic of tourist flats, the topic of saturation, the topic
• 1:21:11
  of noises, the theme of the And then, Spain is a country I
• 1:21:16
  was thinking again with the feast of the sanfermines, so universal, so populated.
• 1:21:21
  It' s just that it' s a clear thing if you want
• 1:21:25
  to see it in a dramatic way and you say good, but animals and
• 1:21:30
  then people get run over by animals or corned. And clearly and well,
• 1:21:32
  I mean, people are subject to that. But what is the party of
• 1:21:35
  knowledge? Well, yeah, it' s the party of the popular jarana,
• 1:21:40
  but it' s the party of the collective drunkenness, it' s
• 1:21:45
  what you live there. Since ernest the jereming Guay, which was one of
• 1:21:48
  the promoters universalizing the party for Americans and for the whole world. But it
• 1:21:56
  ' s the party of the collective drunkenness, because there' s what you
• 1:22:00
  ' re going to drink and live crazy. Hence the issue of herds,
• 1:22:04
  which is almost uncontrollable now that it is a popular, very particular, very
• 1:22:10
  good party. Yeah, but not that. Some people change it. No,
• 1:22:16
  no, and it' s okay for you to mention it, because
• 1:22:21
  many times I think that there is immense hypocrisy in our country about this issue,
• 1:22:27
  that is, there are people who live scandalizing the numbers of alcohol in
• 1:22:32
  adolescents, for example, or problems, as you have now mentioned the issue
• 1:22:38
  of herds or episodes, rapes and sexual assaults that occur in our country and
• 1:22:45
  that it is very good that they are denounced. Of course, but then,
• 1:22:48
  when he gets to these parties, no one seems to want to join
• 1:22:54
  the strings. People behave that way, but they really take those like because
• 1:22:59
  most of them, because they' re just abusing alcohol and they don'
• 1:23:04
  t want to put a stop to it in any way. That is to
• 1:23:08
  say, there is no one here who wants to put the bell on the
• 1:23:13
  cat, because they do not want to break with that tradition that, beyond
• 1:23:16
  a tradition, is also a vehicle of great economic benefit. And there it
• 1:23:21
  is very clear. Then I think we do have that rent there. At
• 1:23:28
  least, I think as a country, also to be a little more serious
• 1:23:32
  or. We should try, at least be more serious in the proposals we
• 1:23:38
  make and in the way in which we also develop this kind of festivities.
• 1:23:44
  I, for one, have never really understood it too much, that is,
• 1:23:47
  and I feel quite alien to all this kind of festivities, which I
• 1:23:53
  do not understand very well the one that people find in them. But,
• 1:24:00
  well, I think we need to also sometimes give healthy leisure proposals for our
• 1:24:09
  society, and that sometimes misses the fact that it seems that if there is
• 1:24:13
  no alcohol in the middle or people trying to put their lives in danger,
• 1:24:17
  because it seems like they can' t have fun and I think there are
• 1:24:19
  healthier ways to have fun in this life. Yeah, yeah, it'
• 1:24:24
  s a real one with I don' t know if it contradicts or paradox
• 1:24:30
  that a party that' s good. Yeah, it' s very popular,
• 1:24:32
  it' s very infestive, very funny for a lot of people,
• 1:24:39
  but it has really worrying connotations. And I say the collective drunkenness, because
• 1:24:42
  it' s going to be drunken the thing, this is in the public
• 1:24:47
  domain to all intents and purposes and then the cornered or clear if they get
• 1:24:55
  it, and then the herds, of the sexual assaults. Well, good
• 1:24:59
  is that who controls that when people are out of their minds, because those
• 1:25:01
  savages also have no feelings, because they attack women indiscriminately and that is uncontrolled.
• 1:25:10
  The police may already be on every corner that, unfortunately, is going
• 1:25:14
  to happen and is happening this year as well. But, well, it
• 1:25:18
  ' s a public reflection for anyone who wants to hear it. Well,
• 1:25:23
  but we have an interesting incentive, Daniel. We are good year on the
• 1:25:29
  theme of the new generation of the Spanish football team, the new generation of
• 1:25:35
  Yamal and others with animation and all and so many others that are really a
• 1:25:44
  genius. The truth is we' re enjoying a football of the highest level
• 1:25:53
  and well, we' ll see what happens on Sunday. The spas are
• 1:25:56
  high. That' s very good. The truth is that the selection has
• 1:26:00
  made a very good tournament. I think that exceeding expectations, it is true
• 1:26:05
  that there were positive expectations for Spain because it was playing quite well and there
• 1:26:14
  was really illusion for a new team, a game model also quite renewed,
• 1:26:18
  more daring, more to attack And thanks to these figures, especially those extremes.
• 1:26:24
  Both lain callal communico Williams, who are two very characteristic players to be
• 1:26:30
  able to play that more daring football. But it has really worked very well
• 1:26:34
  Spain and there has been no game that has played that would look inferior to
• 1:26:40
  the rival in sets. It is true that he had a hard time against
• 1:26:46
  France or Germany, logically because they are also very powerful countries and teams.
• 1:26:51
  But the tournament in Spain is being very good and the expectations that Sunday arrives
• 1:26:57
  as a favorite. So let' s see how about against England It would
• 1:27:01
  be the truth that a very complete championship for Spain winning four. If he
• 1:27:08
  beats England, he' d beat four world winners. In the same tournament
• 1:27:13
  he won Italy, he beat Germany, he won France and he would only
• 1:27:16
  stay in England. So it would really be an interesting brand that also speaks
• 1:27:23
  very well about the selection and the tournament that they have made. Maybe the
• 1:27:29
  paradigmatic figure is the minjamal that boy who turns this week, on Saturday,
• 1:27:33
  turns seventeen. A sixteen- year- old boy, he' s a
• 1:27:42
  real crack the ball touch he' s got and the deblin and the sense
• 1:27:48
  of opportunity Well, the truth is that and good and the team itself let
• 1:27:55
  ' s say in the tiki taka they have are super the truth you say
• 1:28:02
  we' re enjoying fut good football. Then, the other day, I
• 1:28:06
  saw how there were very positive statistics for what is Spanish television as regards the
• 1:28:12
  audiences of young people who had hooked up to the Euro Cup, especially to
• 1:28:16
  the matches of the Spanish team that until now, because it was not happening
• 1:28:20
  too much. Looks like football was a little hard for him to connect with
• 1:28:26
  the new generations. But of course, with these younger young figures and also
• 1:28:30
  with this more daring football, they have succeeded. And, well, actually,
• 1:28:35
  Spain in general has worked very well, because it' s not just
• 1:28:40
  a matter of these two kids. The case of my good is impressive,
• 1:28:44
  because someone so young is giving such a high level and you can already see
• 1:28:47
  that he is an exceptional player, but the rest of the team also responding
• 1:28:54
  very well. All many players at a very good level and really also as
• 1:29:00
  a team, that is, when there are changes or, for example,
• 1:29:02
  the game against France, who entered players who had not yet been able to
• 1:29:06
  play it or had not had so many minutes for issues of injuries or penalties
• 1:29:11
  of other players, and did really well. That also speaks very well of
• 1:29:15
  the team, of the work being done from the direction of the team,
• 1:29:18
  the coach. Anyway, it seems that everything is working properly and well,
• 1:29:23
  it has already come to the end now, obviously, already if you win,
• 1:29:26
  well, you put in a final night and if you don' t
• 1:29:29
  win, then you also stay like a good taste of mouth. I think
• 1:29:30
  of a great tournament. Well, the coach is breast- feeding. I
• 1:29:34
  think the source is doing a great job and I think he' s going
• 1:29:41
  to be a man who' s going to be consecrated after all the stirs
• 1:29:45
  that the Spanish Football Federation, the Royal Spanish Football Federation, has experienced,
• 1:29:51
  and all the alterations that he' s had and the trapicheos that have been
• 1:29:57
  going on and so it seems that that was crying out in the sky since
• 1:30:02
  Billar, when Villar was President, and there were the trapicheos and so on
• 1:30:06
  and in the last stage also with the character in question that has given so
• 1:30:12
  much to speak. But well, this is catching up and we have to
• 1:30:15
  see because there can be no internal mafias economic and economic exploitations that were in
• 1:30:27
  the public domain and then this is problematic the system in which it is,
• 1:30:33
  how the issue of the Federation is mounted with representatives who, in the end
• 1:30:39
  is one of the autonomic federations and from there, then, the problem that
• 1:30:45
  there is no real control of this management and that it seems that who controls
• 1:30:49
  it is the big problem. There is no real control that can be exercised
• 1:30:56
  of the figure of the President or of how the Federation then operates. So,
• 1:31:02
  even well, the scandals that have been seen in recent years, which
• 1:31:06
  we see are splattering every President, that is, even now the interim President,
• 1:31:11
  because he is also very much questioned. Then it would be necessary for
• 1:31:17
  there to be some kind of refoundation, I think, a general refoundation of
• 1:31:21
  the entire football system. But of course, for that you have to love
• 1:31:26
  them that are already there a little bit and also from the outside that really
• 1:31:30
  enough pressure is made so that the right steps can be taken. And I
• 1:31:34
  don' t really see that, that is, the people who are already
• 1:31:39
  in there are in control, so to speak, I think they' re
• 1:31:44
  just going to keep trying, play, change the chips, change the people
• 1:31:47
  who may be in the front to keep kicking forward a federation that is clear
• 1:31:54
  that people who are involved in it or who are inside it, because it
• 1:31:59
  has very well also this kind of triumphs that the selection is leading, both
• 1:32:02
  the female and the Spanish men' s forgiveness that they are actually doing very
• 1:32:08
  good tournaments and that seems to give them as oxygen values to a structure.
• 1:32:17
  I think very, very powerful. Yes, yes, by the way,
• 1:32:21
  the women' s football team one of the best in the world, the
• 1:32:29
  Spanish one And yes, after the blonde case, it is also that yes,
• 1:32:33
  is that it was sighted in the distance of all the trapicheos and everyone
• 1:32:40
  knowing it and then rocha, because of course it was also part of the
• 1:32:43
  same litter, maybe not to the level, but yes. The government has
• 1:32:46
  tried to get a little bit into the matter and, if not this,
• 1:32:50
  it must be stopped. It had to be stopped. The case, of
• 1:32:54
  course, of the player this that the famous little one, well, showed,
• 1:33:00
  brought to light or other things, but well, in any case,
• 1:33:03
  let' s enjoy it, to see if on Sunday we can celebrate it
• 1:33:11
  for all the high champions of the Euro Cup and then the Olympics. Shortly
• 1:33:15
  thereafter, on July 26, the Paris Olympics began. Wow. This is
• 1:33:19
  until mid- August. I believe that it will also be Europe this year
• 1:33:25
  is the center of world sport. Uh, yeah, yeah, well,
• 1:33:29
  exactly, the Olympics. It' s an event that I think everyone likes,
• 1:33:33
  seeing something. At least it is difficult that with all the hundreds of
• 1:33:38
  sports that compete there is no one that interests you and likes you. No.
• 1:33:42
  And that' s already good, because we go to the subject of
• 1:33:46
  athletes that many times, because they don' t see in other events or
• 1:33:51
  that they don' t transcend too much at media level because sometimes they are
• 1:33:57
  sports with less follow up and that there have their big showcase and Spain again
• 1:34:02
  with a good chance. There are athletes who are making very good brands,
• 1:34:06
  for example the athletics that we have seen now, for example, the European
• 1:34:11
  World Cups, and have left a very high standard in terms of possibilities,
• 1:34:17
  which is what you can expect from the Spanish. There and then, in
• 1:34:21
  team sports that Spain has always highlighted the truth that there are a lot of
• 1:34:26
  team sports in which Spain always gives great performance good. We have seen,
• 1:34:31
  we can mention handball, basketball, football, water polo, hockey, are
• 1:34:39
  sports in which there is almost always a very good structure, good dynamics and
• 1:34:45
  always come to the Olympics to compete very well. So there are a lot
• 1:34:49
  of sports in which Spain sure has chances to take medals and well, beyond
• 1:34:56
  what Spain can do, the theme to sport is very nice. I think
• 1:35:01
  it' s still one of those things that are like the good things that
• 1:35:09
  we can see in human beings developing in a positive way. And it is
• 1:35:14
  true that around sport, as we said now, the federation and so on,
• 1:35:16
  there is corruption, but in general, it is a very nice thing
• 1:35:24
  to see how people get the maximum effort from their work, from their training,
• 1:35:30
  from their possibilities to achieve goals and to beat others, to be the
• 1:35:33
  best. I think it is something that encourages us all and that really continues
• 1:35:39
  to have very positive values to transmit to our society, societies that sometimes,
• 1:35:45
  then, stay a little leveraged or that have no reference, because many times
• 1:35:48
  the athletes can be a positive reference for him. Without a doubt, it
• 1:35:53
  is a social revulsive, especially for the new generations, and an incentive also
• 1:35:59
  a world- class show that we will enjoy from twenty- six. I
• 1:36:03
  think I remember from July until late, as early as August. And well,
• 1:36:10
  there in Paris, many of the country is exploiting. Well, my
• 1:36:14
  kids are visiting a little bit before they go with my grandchildren to disney Ward
• 1:36:20
  and there I tell her now that she' s going to burst and she
• 1:36:24
  says no, but we' re coming before the Olympics and then Paris is
• 1:36:30
  in fashion. Now all the people are coming to the Olympics. They attract
• 1:36:32
  a lot of tourism. It is clear, before, during and after,
• 1:36:36
  and that is what happened in the Spain of the ninety- two, when
• 1:36:42
  Barcelona was in fashion during. Well, that drove her from there like never
• 1:36:48
  before. Well, but we have domestic problems and we' re on the
• 1:36:56
  subject of the menas, of the guys who come in patenting mostly a hundred
• 1:37:00
  and seventy percent coming from Morocco. The great, the great dilemma that is
• 1:37:06
  now in the political eavesdropping, not and that is having a repercussion between box
• 1:37:13
  and the People' s Party and so on, but what, what and
• 1:37:17
  what we do, how, how we handle, how we manage this problem
• 1:37:23
  of overflowing immigration that reaches our shores. Daniel, this is good. He
• 1:37:28
  asks you that the government has a hard time. Yeah, no, no,
• 1:37:31
  it' s not a problem, it' s a problem that'
• 1:37:34
  s not solved easily. As we' ve seen. It is true that
• 1:37:36
  in the last year, because what has happened is a very large arrival of
• 1:37:41
  immigrants, especially on the Route Canaria, I did not know as Ruta Canaria,
• 1:37:47
  because there has been one, we can say, an avalanche, because
• 1:37:54
  really before they have entered the last year, because many people and clear here
• 1:38:00
  the issue is that unaccompanied minors, cannot enter the European divisions like the rest
• 1:38:06
  of immigrants, that is, with the rest of immigrants. It seems that
• 1:38:13
  good there are more agreements or more ease so that they can be taken to
• 1:38:17
  one country or another in short they are adults, but with minors let'
• 1:38:24
  s say that there is a much more delicate situation. So, right now,
• 1:38:26
  what we' ve seen is that on channels they' re oversaturated,
• 1:38:30
  that is, the reception centers that really don' t pay anymore. And
• 1:38:34
  then a distribution system is proposed so that we can say that all of Spain,
• 1:38:39
  in some way, can also welcome and in some way give shelter to
• 1:38:46
  these children while their situation is resolved, which is sometimes not easy, is
• 1:38:51
  to say that the situation can always be solved, because many times it is
• 1:38:56
  not known that they have parents, often there is no record of which relatives
• 1:39:01
  they can have. And all that then makes the process of being able to
• 1:39:08
  do something with these people difficult. So the issue is there, that there
• 1:39:12
  is a political debate that is also present, although I think it is very
• 1:39:16
  exaggerated, that is, at least what I have been seeing. In terms
• 1:39:19
  of figures, the truth is that the figures are not as big as they
• 1:39:25
  could sometimes appear when the editor is put in the sky by the cast.
• 1:39:30
  I mean, I think that in this case the Box Party, which is
• 1:39:33
  saying it' s making the most noise on this issue, is actually threatening
• 1:39:36
  to break the government pacts with the PP It seems that they' re even
• 1:39:42
  going to take it forward. But it' s not really figures that we
• 1:39:49
  ' re not talking about thousands and thousands of minors, that is, we
• 1:39:54
  ' re not sometimes talking about deliveries that can sometimes touch tens or some might
• 1:40:00
  have to catch a hundred, but I think the autonomous communities should have the
• 1:40:05
  capacity to do so. If they do not have it there, I think
• 1:40:08
  it is, that a plan needs to be developed, that is, what
• 1:40:11
  it should not be followed in this state which seems that there is no clear
• 1:40:21
  strategy on the part of the government, neither on the part of Europe nor
• 1:40:25
  on the part of the autonomous communities, that is to say, here we
• 1:40:29
  should be clear on what the plan is and also, because a little bit
• 1:40:33
  of that plan, to define the strategy so that this is not always a
• 1:40:41
  political riffi rafe, we should ask our politicians a little bit higher to be
• 1:40:45
  able to solve the problems that it is for that purpose, for what they
• 1:40:50
  are theoretically then is a complicated issue, because obviously there are no easy solutions,
• 1:41:00
  but there should be established at least ways in which not only politicians participate,
• 1:41:03
  but also to give a voice, for example, to the best of
• 1:41:08
  a table that could be put forward, a table that would raise alternatives,
• 1:41:13
  in which the NGOs that are also taking part in the reception, in which,
• 1:41:18
  as well, the authorities, of course, have a part, because
• 1:41:21
  there is also a part that has to do with what the police, the
• 1:41:26
  civil guard, because it also has to do in this sense that it has
• 1:41:29
  to do in this. Anyway, there' s a lot of stuff.
• 1:41:30
  Education. I think it should be a matter that, between different parts,
• 1:41:36
  we should try to solve without being easy, knowing that tensions, knowing that
• 1:41:44
  there may be difficulties to address it, but I wish it could be done
• 1:41:49
  in a more calm way and not by saying the cry in heaven for a
• 1:41:54
  cast, as it was this week, that I think they are good I
• 1:41:59
  don' t know if they are six zero. Some say that there are
• 1:42:00
  about six lower zeros that do not have to be distributed, because really,
• 1:42:09
  if the country is not able to assume it, we will have to see
• 1:42:13
  what to do. It' s not an easy answer, but I think
• 1:42:15
  six zero should be able to take it. Now what' s going on?
• 1:42:18
  Six months from now, there' s another six zero. That'
• 1:42:20
  s what they should, because of course it' s a problem. It
• 1:42:24
  ' s a complex problem. There is also talk of a new immigration law.
• 1:42:31
  There is talk that Congress is going to debate a new immigration law.
• 1:42:35
  It is true that Europe also has to enter this game, because Spain is
• 1:42:42
  the gateway. But Spain cannot carry all this burden and such, on the
• 1:42:50
  other hand, illegally. Of course, a lot of them are coming.
• 1:42:56
  Of course, the entire immigration contingent is criminalized, and that is neither correct
• 1:43:01
  nor fair. It is true that many of the crimes that occur are of
• 1:43:06
  immigrant and Spanish people, also many immigrants from all over, not only from
• 1:43:13
  Africa, but from the other day, the appearance and a robot that entered
• 1:43:17
  my farm on the top, the bacon from above, because they entered through
• 1:43:24
  the balconies. Moreover, they were apparently Georgians, as I was talking to
• 1:43:28
  the police. From these Georgian bands it means that they come from everywhere,
• 1:43:34
  but also here clearly the precarious situation that live without papers, without work,
• 1:43:41
  is a fish that bites the tail, then think of a problem and at
• 1:43:46
  the same time is a necessity. That' s why you have to regulate
• 1:43:53
  it, you have to look especially for the repeat multiplers automatically, you have
• 1:43:59
  to take drastic measures as far as crimes comes from that I totally agree with
• 1:44:02
  what has to be done and well, the more matches, as well as
• 1:44:08
  Mark Like, who say ah now that I' m going to give in
• 1:44:13
  free bar for everyone. No, no, no, that can' t
• 1:44:14
  be, but this is an issue that needs to be rationalized. No,
• 1:44:17
  but you can' t. We can' t let these people on the
• 1:44:21
  high seas die this. No, no, this is inhumanity. But,
• 1:44:26
  well, Box seems to care nothing about that. No, yes, I
• 1:44:30
  think that here, of course, there are statements that are very negative that
• 1:44:36
  we have heard in the Box case. If you don' t agree with
• 1:44:39
  the deal, you don' t agree with the plan, because it doesn
• 1:44:43
  ' t agree with what you manifest or what you want, but of course
• 1:44:46
  from there and to criminize as you were saying, not that it will mine
• 1:44:49
  everything to everyone. Or it has been said that they will not participate in
• 1:44:55
  bringing machetazo rapes and I do not know what more and robberies to their autonomous
• 1:45:00
  communities. Of course that is obviously a totally criminalizing message. You' re
• 1:45:04
  saying that you' re all taking in criminals by themselves, without even having
• 1:45:10
  committed anything yet. So this is a little strong and I think, as
• 1:45:17
  you were saying, there is a structural problem that is not easy to solve,
• 1:45:24
  but that it is not going to solve by closing the doors here licanto
• 1:45:30
  and there really is not an easy solution either. I think so, that
• 1:45:31
  it would be interesting if this collaboration between administrations could be approached a little more
• 1:45:39
  smoothly and also, as I said before, trying to involve organisations. I
• 1:45:45
  think even the Emangelic churches. I am sure that they could contribute in this
• 1:45:49
  respect, that some kind of table could be formed so that, from different
• 1:45:58
  social factors, they could also contribute to this situation of need that is taking
• 1:46:04
  place. I was seeing a little bit in the numbers no and there really
• 1:46:09
  is. For example, Canary Islands says it has received two thousand eight hundred
• 1:46:14
  minors in pateras and Cayucos this year alone this year two thousand eight hundred.
• 1:46:20
  Of course, if the trend continues, it could close to two thousand twenty
• 1:46:26
  - four with more than eleven zero unaccompanied foreign minors, equivalent to the entire
• 1:46:30
  population of Iron Island. Then, of course, Canary Islands cannot assume this.
• 1:46:38
  So the idea is to be solidary the rest of Spain and we distribute
• 1:46:44
  so that the reception can be done, that is, it is not being
• 1:46:46
  posed. I believe that what is being proposed by the Government is to respond
• 1:46:49
  and try to solve the problem that is right now in the Canary Islands,
• 1:46:57
  now with which there is already one. What we must also try to do
• 1:46:59
  is to ensure that they do not arrive, that is, if this level
• 1:47:01
  of minors has already reached, because we must try to do some policy that
• 1:47:06
  somehow reduces this massive arrival. Yes, but this is complex because the countries
• 1:47:13
  of origin, including from Tunisia, Mauritania and others, are also being talked
• 1:47:18
  about and making contributions from the European Union to give them another way out or
• 1:47:26
  other directions. But in the end these waves come back and it' s
• 1:47:31
  true that these guys are not controlled, not all, but some do commit
• 1:47:36
  crimes, some of them. But of course, we cannot say this cannot
• 1:47:40
  be generalized and it is also true that sometimes the conditions under which they are
• 1:47:45
  found are conditions sometimes conducive to crime falling. Of course, it' s
• 1:47:51
  also a problem, that is, what they' re doing. If they
• 1:47:54
  are not doing anything at all, of course, it is very easy for
• 1:47:59
  them to end up, because they fall into that criminal practices that can sometimes
• 1:48:03
  be minor robberies and such a man. But, of course, we don
• 1:48:04
  ' t want that. Then, of course, there is the problem of
• 1:48:08
  the development paths that can be given to them. Many times we have and
• 1:48:13
  have commented on it once. There are also minors who, when they are
• 1:48:16
  adults, leave the centres. They are no longer in the juvenile centre,
• 1:48:19
  obviously, and where they are going. There' s no answer. There
• 1:48:24
  ' s no plan. There is no answer to this, there is no
• 1:48:26
  continuous plan. It gives them a choice. Of course, they are given
• 1:48:29
  no alternative, as they are given no alternative. They' re told everything.
• 1:48:32
  From here you can' t be anymore and now look for your life.
• 1:48:35
  So it' s very easy for a semi- mafian structure to come
• 1:48:43
  and really get you for whatever it is, not for some criminal activity,
• 1:48:46
  that' s there in legality, like it can be many times they'
• 1:48:50
  re selling some kind of product on the streets. Then it' s hard.
• 1:48:55
  It' s hard if we don' t really build a path that
• 1:49:01
  allows you to regulate or normalize. And I think this is already a subject
• 1:49:05
  that has been dragging on for many years, that is to say, we
• 1:49:11
  are going now, because that twenty- five years of irregular immigration arriving all
• 1:49:17
  our shores, and it seems that it is still difficult for us to put
• 1:49:25
  in place some kind of plan that can help resolve certain situations. It is
• 1:49:27
  strange in Catalonia, which is one of the most typically supportive in this type
• 1:49:31
  of question, they do not accept to take two hundred and sixty less,
• 1:49:41
  because they say it will be the limit of their capacity. And that is
• 1:49:44
  true that in some it happens are usually supportive of this kind of thing.
• 1:49:48
  And good communities. What is striking is the issue of the break- up
• 1:49:54
  that this afternoon is about to announce all the agreements in the communities that govern
• 1:49:58
  with PP BOX. Well, well, steady is holding on to saying good.
• 1:50:01
  We' re not going either. We have to be in solidarity with
• 1:50:05
  each other. We cannot let communities overburden them and leave them under cover of
• 1:50:12
  everything. And politically, I think that in the end, the pp isn
• 1:50:16
  ' t going to pose a problem either because they break the pact with VOX.
• 1:50:19
  But they' re not breaking up. In other words, the government
• 1:50:21
  is already running budgets already approved in the autonomous communities budgets can be extended,
• 1:50:28
  i e you are not cutting it off or forcing it to call elections immediately
• 1:50:33
  with the fact that they leave the governments. Person who leaves the Government,
• 1:50:38
  the pp can appoint someone to replace him or even seek some timely support,
• 1:50:43
  given the circumstance that may appear to him from another party. I wouldn'
• 1:50:46
  t even be surprised if at some point I could get to the point support
• 1:50:54
  of some group, be born a list or some of the PSOE at some
• 1:50:58
  point to keep the legislature. Because, of course, in this matter it
• 1:51:01
  seems to me that Bueno Box is trying here to play his electoral bazaar as
• 1:51:08
  well and his position, and I think that we should not take a little
• 1:51:12
  account of what has happened in recent months, that is, Box is no
• 1:51:16
  stranger to what has happened in Europeans, that is, that a force has
• 1:51:20
  emerged, as the party that comes with a very strong speech on the subject
• 1:51:26
  of anti- migration ended, and that Box really does not want to leave
• 1:51:30
  a little room for this good party for the moment, of association of readers,
• 1:51:38
  but with the possibility that this party, since it has had such a
• 1:51:43
  success in Europeans, will jump into the national panorama and once he does it,
• 1:51:46
  it will probably do so, because who is going to take votes from,
• 1:51:50
  because Box is also taking a little bit of it trying to tie those
• 1:51:55
  votes that he already has and that do not escape him. On that side,
• 1:51:59
  yes, exactly, so is the complexity, let' s say of
• 1:52:05
  the political parliamentary arch and pact policies, which are inevitable now in all absolute
• 1:52:11
  majorities has ended today and well, there are some have, it is true
• 1:52:16
  that there has to be a new immigration law and they have to rationalize everything,
• 1:52:21
  absolutely everything. But you can' t leave it under the cover of
• 1:52:27
  tragedy, of inhumanity to people who come as they come and can' t
• 1:52:31
  be left behind and then revolutions hot. It is another problem also our legal
• 1:52:40
  problem as well and it is another real problem. That issue gives a lot
• 1:52:44
  of yes, no, but well let' s see in the coming times
• 1:52:46
  there' s going to be a lot of talk about this. But we
• 1:52:49
  already know that in France, after this almost terrorous fear that the ultra-
• 1:52:58
  right would take over legislative weapons. Well, in the end, the French
• 1:53:03
  have done this on other occasions in a vow of punishment. In a first
• 1:53:09
  round they voted ultra right and in the second not to make a call attention.
• 1:53:15
  There is unrest over Macrons' policies, that on the right and the
• 1:53:19
  most radical left. But finally, of course, if France, in that
• 1:53:29
  sense, which is a political bulwark of Europe, dismembers itself internally Houston,
• 1:53:40
  we have a problem. Well, let' s see what happens not in
• 1:53:44
  France, because the political issue is very hot, as we have seen already,
• 1:53:47
  when Macron advanced the elections in the legislative ones, it was seen that
• 1:53:57
  he had an earthquake, although it is true that in the end Macron has
• 1:54:00
  not come out more entirely, because in the face of the increase of the
• 1:54:09
  right of the lepen because he has contained that assault on the institutions that could
• 1:54:15
  be taken a little for granted, and in the end, it has been
• 1:54:21
  the left that has managed to remain as the first option in this case,
• 1:54:29
  that coalition of the left that have managed to mount inextremis against the clock but
• 1:54:34
  of course, with a lot of effectiveness when it comes to dealing with this
• 1:54:34
  system. As you say in the second round of two rounds in which,
• 1:54:38
  in the end, then, the Party of Lapena has been punished, although
• 1:54:42
  they had expectations. Evidently, they had the expectation of being equal the first
• 1:54:45
  force. So, let' s say that yes, it has been a
• 1:54:48
  surprise that both the Macrono Party has endured quite well as the fact that the
• 1:54:54
  Left, for it was left in the first place. And it is clear
• 1:55:00
  that the configuration is not easy either, because Mccron now has to agree with
• 1:55:06
  the left similar to the one we can have here we can, that is,
• 1:55:14
  it is a left that is quite far from what Macron can say on
• 1:55:19
  many issues. So, let' s see if they get how they can
• 1:55:27
  move on this clau that. Now France too seems to be taking some political
• 1:55:30
  breath from the party we were talking about before the Olympic Games, but it
• 1:55:34
  is clear that starting in September we will see what is happening in this country
• 1:55:39
  and we are seeing movements at an interesting political level. What has also happened
• 1:55:43
  in the United Kingdom, that is to say, the fact that the Socialist
• 1:55:46
  Party there in the Labour Party has also achieved such a crushing victory. It
• 1:55:55
  seems that it is as we have seen in the parties of conservative and right
• 1:56:02
  - wing identity parties, because they also have their counterpart, that is,
• 1:56:09
  also on the left side, because there are those who are enduring, so
• 1:56:13
  to speak, or re- emerging and give a more varied picture of what
• 1:56:19
  it might seem a few months ago in which it was seen, because it
• 1:56:26
  is a conservative and right- wing identity classroom, because it really razes across
• 1:56:28
  Europe. And now, it looks like a bit of a thing that'
• 1:56:30
  s not so unbalanced. Yes, it really is a very ambiguous board,
• 1:56:41
  although in the European Chamber, on the ultra- right, it is the
• 1:56:45
  third largest group, and that even though Meloni has been derailed, but in
• 1:56:50
  Meloni it is also part of that platoon, even if independently it means that
• 1:56:56
  it is a significant force and a voice that is inevitably going to have to
• 1:57:01
  listen and that is going to war. Politically speaking, but the complexity of
• 1:57:06
  what is happening is evident. The Labour Party in England, in Great Britain,
• 1:57:13
  in the United Kingdom, has nothing to do with Spanish socialism, which
• 1:57:17
  has been greatly drawn to the ultra left. It is not much more moderate
• 1:57:24
  socialism, except for Corbing, who disappeared. It is a much more moderate
• 1:57:30
  party, but it has evidently knocked down the Toris who had made a policy
• 1:57:38
  of disaster in the last few years and who has gone from bad to worse
• 1:57:43
  and in France, the ultrade and the popular front east as well. But
• 1:57:45
  with everything and with it the forces, that is to say that the Members
• 1:57:48
  who have taken out see him in a presidential election is that proportionally they are
• 1:58:00
  majority proportionally careful, careful, we will see yes, still they say that
• 1:58:05
  they are still waiting their turn and have not played. Let' s say
• 1:58:10
  they keep growing, that is, you see the elections and practically they'
• 1:58:14
  re all growing a little bit more. And good. That also tells us
• 1:58:16
  a little bit about the answers that France and the problems it is facing,
• 1:58:23
  and the answers are trying to look for the different problems that are being posed
• 1:58:30
  today in many of the societies in which we have. It is clear that
• 1:58:32
  in France, for example, there is an issue which is very much present,
• 1:58:35
  which is the subject of Islam, which is a very powerful issue and
• 1:58:41
  which is of concern, and that there is a lot of concern among many
• 1:58:46
  people in France about this advance of Islam and which, in some way as
• 1:58:53
  it also affects coexistence, because we have also seen that there are sometimes difficulties
• 1:58:59
  for countries where there is a high percentage of people of Islamic faith in some
• 1:59:06
  way to accept democracy or make certain parts of certain characteristics of democracy. And
• 1:59:14
  it is really feared that they might somehow come to power, start taking certain
• 1:59:20
  positions that really seem very difficult to see right now. But who knows what
• 1:59:28
  may come to power Certain factions are coming to power and this is also part
• 1:59:32
  of what the future of Europe can do. Europe is changing and we are
• 1:59:36
  going to see, we are going to see what is happening in the coming
• 1:59:40
  years, also in this respect, because it is a continent that, as
• 1:59:45
  we have said, is still a very aged continent and that, in that
• 1:59:51
  sense, because so well present to that struggle right now between a certain conservatism,
• 1:59:59
  but also the forces that come from that in no way and that are
• 2:00:01
  emerging are not forces, let us say, of the left, but that
• 2:00:06
  are sometimes forces that identify other types of forces. Yes, of course,
• 2:00:10
  this is a mare magnum of very politically complex issues. Speaking of France,
• 2:00:16
  the social protest revolts in France are very dangerous. You can take a turn
• 2:00:24
  and you mean well, and I realize every time in politics there' s
• 2:00:28
  nothing stable, there' s nothing certain. Every time things can turn to
• 2:00:31
  the most unexpected situations you can imagine. And well, and even Europe,
• 2:00:41
  that being the richest continent, politically more stable at the moment, with turbulence
• 2:00:46
  And so, if Europe is destabilized, the world has a problem because other
• 2:00:55
  parts of the world are wrong, including the United States. The U S
• 2:01:02
  internally is not right. Of course, China is ahead of it in economic
• 2:01:08
  implementation. The economic colonization of China' s economic imperialism is superior to that
• 2:01:15
  of the United States. The political situation in the United States is very precarious.
• 2:01:20
  Social intern And we' ll see what happens to the issue of Baiden,
• 2:01:27
  who is a man, who is an incapable man, but we don
• 2:01:31
  ' t have to take him out of the way. And then, because
• 2:01:32
  Donaldtran is a good alternative for the country either, but I see it'
• 2:01:39
  s amazing that they don' t have candidates, candidates let' s say
• 2:01:46
  relevant when in Napolia it seems that nobody wants to face these challenges of this
• 2:01:51
  size, because Kamala Harris, for example, is a total incompetent, total,
• 2:01:59
  be it a woman of gray, low profile and such, but good.
• 2:02:02
  And then, on the other side of the republic, because they have
• 2:02:06
  no candidates either, and this man, who is not knowing politics of how
• 2:02:11
  to lead a country here, there can be a major political catastrophe. Yeah,
• 2:02:15
  well, we' re not gonna see what. What' s going
• 2:02:17
  on is not the truth, which is a year that there are many more
• 2:02:20
  elections going on and these, let' s say, are very important.
• 2:02:23
  Not what has anything to do with what happens October November there in the United
• 2:02:28
  States, because, as we have always seen, although in the United States
• 2:02:32
  it is losing international relevance, it is still the great superpower in many respects,
• 2:02:39
  the military, of course, and of course, the fact that there
• 2:02:44
  is a government that has international policies, for example, of one kind of
• 2:02:47
  another, because that marks a lot what happens at other levels, without forgetting
• 2:02:54
  that geopolitical situation, not only in the case of what is happening with China,
• 2:02:58
  but also with Russia. The conflict also in Israel, that is,
• 2:03:01
  there are a lot of hot potatoes that is really not very clear what the
• 2:03:06
  U S response is going to be. There' s one candidate or there
• 2:03:11
  ' s another. I mean, let' s see what happens, because
• 2:03:15
  really, for example, right now the one who could win that strump that
• 2:03:18
  looks like it' s all headed for what might happen. That, then,
• 2:03:24
  is going to take some political decisions at the international level that I believe
• 2:03:29
  will have consequences. Then we will have to see what happens in that sense.
• 2:03:32
  Yes, yes, with the exception of Israel, which is going to
• 2:03:35
  support it to the death, likewise the other countries, the issue of Ukraine,
• 2:03:43
  the other nor such will be on the looserope, because if it is
• 2:03:51
  so that it finally wins, because it can emerge a candidate from if mitchello
• 2:03:58
  roda Obama, proposes himself as candidate. Finally, they' re not so
• 2:04:01
  clear. Do all tran yes, well, yes, of course if they
• 2:04:05
  change candidates that could occur in the coming weeks. There are not especially these
• 2:04:10
  last two weeks, there are a lot of movements from that debate, in
• 2:04:14
  which the shortcomings of living mainly the difficulties that it sometimes has to maintain the
• 2:04:18
  thread or, therefore, to answer some of the questions that were raised to
• 2:04:25
  it. Well, that, I think, shows a very big weakness that
• 2:04:31
  you' d already seen dancing. Yeah, well, we' ve been
• 2:04:34
  seeing her for a long time, and now she' s getting stronger.
• 2:04:39
  So, I think it' s going to be very difficult for him to
• 2:04:42
  remain a candidate. So, yes, it could change what you were saying
• 2:04:44
  before politics is very changing. No one can really predict what' s going
• 2:04:47
  to happen. And one of the things that could change the board a lot
• 2:04:51
  would be the appearance of another candidate by the Democratic Party, the place they
• 2:04:58
  live that right now seemed pretty much more. Yeah. Well, then,
• 2:05:00
  we will continue to talk about these issues because they are the ones that our
• 2:05:08
  daily bread in the social and political chronicle and other peripheral issues that we are
• 2:05:15
  entertaining, but speaking only now in this final reflection of this interview Daniel Protestante
• 2:05:23
  Digital, the magazine that speaks of interesting for our listeners. Many know it,
• 2:05:27
  but others have not yet entered the pages of Digital Protestant. It'
• 2:05:32
  s the paper. The newspaper is precisely worth the digital redundancy that is at
• 2:05:41
  the forefront of the Protestant world, of the evangelical world, in our country
• 2:05:45
  and even in Ibero- America, the most frequent and also from the social
• 2:05:50
  powers and public life appear to Protestant Digital. And the interesting thing about Digital
• 2:05:56
  Protestant is that it addresses internal issues of the faith and the Christian community,
• 2:06:00
  but many current issues, from very interesting contrasts. There with yourself, Daniel
• 2:06:09
  as director of Digital Protestant, with Joel Foster, with Jonathan Soriano, with
• 2:06:15
  Pedro Tarquís and with a campus of and others and other collaborations that make it
• 2:06:21
  very interesting. And don' t miss passing by the Digital Protestant Digital magazine,
• 2:06:29
  which you could tell us as the director of this magazine, that I
• 2:06:32
  ' ve been saying so much, because yes, thank you for putting the
• 2:06:36
  good words, as always Julio and your collaboration also and we really have a
• 2:06:42
  content. I think that very interesting these last few weeks is that, moreover,
• 2:06:45
  the current situation has not passed and we have closely followed everything that has
• 2:06:49
  happened. For example, we have assessments of the elections that took place in
• 2:06:55
  France and the United Kingdom, with evangelical voices from each of these countries.
• 2:07:00
  We also have reports on the Euro Cup, which we have also talked about
• 2:07:03
  at this time. Also, for things that are happening more at the evangelical
• 2:07:12
  level. We could say there is a very interesting report about a Punjab church
• 2:07:17
  in Barcelona. I think it' s very interesting to see how they are
• 2:07:21
  reaching different immigrants, different sectors that are sometimes not reached and how they are
• 2:07:29
  doing a great job among them chronicles such as the World Nursing Congress that was
• 2:07:35
  overtaken, which took place in Malaga a few days ago. And then,
• 2:07:40
  as always, interviews with relevant people, interesting people to tell about things that
• 2:07:45
  also have to do with life, with culture, with faith, with things
• 2:07:49
  that are always worth reading or caring for. So good to invite, as
• 2:07:58
  always to digital Protestant amicator, to read the contents. We also have several
• 2:08:01
  recent video interviews there. In short, many things that I think can be
• 2:08:05
  very upbuilding and always a perspective a little different from the actuality that is what
• 2:08:09
  we bring and this section of Christian business leaders and is magnificent the number of
• 2:08:16
  interviews and contributions and keys that it is good that you have to go through
• 2:08:22
  there, you have to see it and make a bet to the day of
• 2:08:26
  ours and of what from our worldview there is also critical analysis as very very
• 2:08:33
  interesting and profound, because in digital Protestant, as there you can access directly.
• 2:08:41
  Daniel, well, I wish you a good summer and I believe that
• 2:08:46
  God, through God' s favor, we will meet in South Korea.
• 2:08:50
  That is, that is here we will be, if God wants September,
• 2:08:56
  there we will find if Providence how green it seems that we will be in
• 2:09:01
  the Congress that makes me very excited because the 50th anniversary of the USN Congress,
• 2:09:07
  which has transformed the reality of the evangelization of the world into these,
• 2:09:13
  the impulse that has given this Conference to all kinds, and that of the
• 2:09:18
  twenty- five gaps to analyze and so many interesting things. Well, I
• 2:09:24
  think it' s a privilege to be able to participate and enjoy it and
• 2:09:28
  then continue working in our home countries. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:09:31
  It' s gonna be great. I believe it is an event in
• 2:09:35
  which five zero people participate in a face- to- face manner. Another
• 2:09:39
  five zero will be connected online to participate, that is, ten zero evangelicals
• 2:09:43
  from all over the world, from all countries of the world. We'
• 2:09:46
  ll be there from Spain. We will be traveling to about thirty forty people
• 2:09:50
  or so, so it will be great to be able to share that time
• 2:09:56
  there and also the expectation that we do not really have an income, that
• 2:10:00
  it will not be left alone as a congress, but that from there will
• 2:10:03
  emerge documents initiatives and can continue to promote mission and evangelization worldwide in all areas.
• 2:10:13
  So we' re also going to be reporting on that very punctually.
• 2:10:18
  We already have some reports published also in digital protest. If anyone wants to
• 2:10:22
  look about the Usandra movement, we also have a recent interview with Yao Mallenas
• 2:10:26
  talking about the subject and, of course, that the expectation is high and
• 2:10:35
  we hope it will also be good. We' re also going to inform
• 2:10:37
  people about what they' re going to live there, because I think it
• 2:10:39
  ' s going to be very relevant. That' s right, dear friend,
• 2:10:41
  Well, I wish you a good summer and then God, through there
• 2:10:46
  we will most likely agree and enjoy it and then we will report many things
• 2:10:54
  of interest to everyone, because thank you, thank you very much, Julio,
• 2:10:58
  and also have a good summer. Thanks to You, Daniel, a
• 2:11:00
  hug, dear friend, the train of life I love with us the man
• 2:11:54
  Jesus. My powers are to respect the name of Jesus. It is amazing
• 2:12:16
  and bringed the God, the God imposes himself, draws near, hears that
• 2:12:28
  it is that I worship him inspired over tomber kings to always heso that there
• 2:12:50
  is no other lore given over that they are, Lord t but give me
• 2:13:07
  a square to Christ Jesus and we jump an iPad in your man. The
• 2:13:16
  name of Jesus loves it o of the darkness and that of the man of
• 2:13:31
  Jesus how he ceased to see me because as universe Tedios to the death of
• 2:13:48
  another, do not take the tourity to sing clear, but or on gray
• 2:14:05
  hairs. Thank you j That, this came the soon turn. Fat men,
• 2:14:22
  not about rhymes. I think this and do not bore the other man,
• 2:14:45
  look, men gestures of sors, sir we are. Thank you for
• 2:15:18
  either satin or egg wax. Either man is afraid, or above all man,
• 2:16:28
  especially men to free him not or he' s right. Thank you
• 2:17:24
  to go to work, to forget about the air conditioning, to travel the
• 2:17:28
  world. Whatever the reason you use your bike, what matters is that you
• 2:17:33
  enjoy without risking your life always wear the helmet, circulate at the right speed
• 2:17:39
  and avoid the advances in curve on foot, by bike, by motorcycle or
• 2:17:43
  by car. What we want is for you to arrive at the General Traffic
• 2:17:50
  Directorate, Ministry of the Interior, Government of Spain, the train of life,
• 2:18:03
  an exciting journey along the routes of the heart, an unforgettable trip at
• 2:18:31
  the rate of trem Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we are still here traveling
• 2:18:35
  along the routes of the heart and of the human soul. Never, ever
• 2:18:39
  better said, because this is a different journalism. It is the journalism of
• 2:18:43
  the soul that also forces us to reflect on that immaterial part of ourselves,
• 2:18:50
  but that has so much importance in human life, the soul that is part
• 2:18:54
  of our essential being, of the human being. This morning we are in
• 2:19:00
  direct line with Don Joaquín Lebra, our good friend, our magnificent dear.
• 2:19:05
  We always listen as attentively as the students to the teacher. Actually, to
• 2:19:11
  Don Joaquín Lebra, this morning he' s going to tell us about sin.
• 2:19:15
  It is a religious lie that has been socialized. It is a Christian
• 2:19:20
  Judeo lie that has been inserted into the social consciousness through religion. That'
• 2:19:26
  s what they say, but what can we say before. That' s
• 2:19:31
  it or it' s another way. Good morning, Joaquin. Good morning,
• 2:19:37
  July today, good morning to the entire audience. All right, Joaquin,
• 2:19:41
  look at you. We wanted who better than you to ask you some
• 2:19:46
  questions about things that are more familiar to us and we assume them for many
• 2:19:52
  of us who confess heart- to- heart Christians, convicted confessors, but
• 2:20:00
  for all of us in the social and popular consciousness, why it is so
• 2:20:05
  strange to hear about sin today, for I would say that because the vast
• 2:20:11
  majority of people have studied morals or ethics or have not done so, they
• 2:20:18
  have a concept as very legalistic, very non- mystical of sin related to
• 2:20:30
  prohibitions, things that can be done, that cannot be done or should not
• 2:20:33
  be done and that have been expressed in a very legalistic way. And then
• 2:20:43
  the origin of sin is very unknown to many people. I would even dare
• 2:20:50
  to say that in many Christian circles, because I know many and are many
• 2:20:56
  years old, I have seen that most odes are not even made or know
• 2:21:03
  how to make a distinction between sin and sins. Sins understood as faults against
• 2:21:16
  current morality, against ethics in the society in which one lives, which is
• 2:21:24
  very changing, because society is changing, evolving, not necessarily for the better,
• 2:21:30
  but also for the better. And, of course, sins already enter
• 2:21:39
  the casuistics, because they change and vary with the passage of the years and
• 2:21:45
  in the last years with great speed, as almost everything in the last times,
• 2:21:52
  in that process of acceleration of time and events, but of sin,
• 2:21:58
  of sin as the cause of all the evils and all the problems of humanity,
• 2:22:05
  for many do not know much of it and I say to you I
• 2:22:11
  insist in this it confuses sin with sins. Yeah, there' s really
• 2:22:20
  one. The subject of sin is a word Socially, current secularism, which
• 2:22:26
  many years ago, has anathemized this word, because when in a discourse or
• 2:22:33
  in a colloquial talk on a social level, it occurs to you to say
• 2:22:39
  that what you call sin to a certain thing, for it seems to be
• 2:22:46
  for some it is a bit of a curt, antimodern, religious, outmoded,
• 2:22:54
  unproprietary, an anachronistic word. This is the feeling that a lot of
• 2:22:56
  people have. It is clear that I remember or when in canon law,
• 2:23:03
  because it was said I do not remember the precise quantities, but it was
• 2:23:09
  something like subtracting ninety- nine pesetas was venial sin and subtracting a hundred pesetas
• 2:23:16
  was mortal sin. Or the exact quantities I don' t remember, but
• 2:23:20
  come on it was a quantification with a limit to move from one category of
• 2:23:26
  sin to another. That is why I insist that it is so important to
• 2:23:31
  make that distinction between sin and sins. When the word sin is used in
• 2:23:39
  today’ s world, the vast majority of people think of actions that at
• 2:23:48
  one time were not considered acceptable in society and are now acceptable. And that
• 2:23:58
  is why the one who uses the pla if we use it a little carelessly,
• 2:24:03
  because they will point to us with the finger as people who are not
• 2:24:07
  up to date, who live practically in the middle ages. But the reality
• 2:24:13
  of sin is a reality of such great dimensions and so evident, so evident
• 2:24:22
  that no one can deny that reality, that it is the great protagonist behind
• 2:24:30
  all the crimes scams, all the evils that occur in humanity, in the
• 2:24:39
  form of wars, massacres, in the form of frauds of deception, in
• 2:24:45
  short, of man' s struggle for man. Understand, then, the
• 2:24:54
  law of the jungle and the struggle of the strongest to crush the weakest is
• 2:25:00
  an absolutely verifiable reality, a reality that is there and that is why of
• 2:25:05
  course every student of morals and ethics meets this reality that then, in some
• 2:25:13
  concrete facts, in some materializations, because effectively, in the evolution of society,
• 2:25:22
  can become out of date as authentic sins. And that' s what
• 2:25:31
  also makes some people talk about gross sins, like realities of universal dimension that
• 2:25:39
  occur wherever man lives in society and in dealing with other men, a reality
• 2:25:45
  that cannot be denied and that I believe the sacred scriptures the Bible is the
• 2:25:52
  one that tells us most clearly what the origin is, where the reality of
• 2:25:58
  sin comes from, how it originates, what are the sufferings and problems it
• 2:26:03
  brings upon humanity. Sure, because the diagnosis comes to be. Let'
• 2:26:15
  s call him this is like someone has cancer, we could call him a
• 2:26:20
  me know a tare or an organic accident. We' d call it something
• 2:26:28
  else. But if corrosive cancer and unstoppable cancer, a virulent cancer, as
• 2:26:33
  it is a crushing cancer that advances in the body and destroys it, then
• 2:26:39
  it is called cancer. Now we can give you the name we want to
• 2:26:46
  soften the idea, evade it, excuse it, justify it, or mask
• 2:26:50
  it. But that' s why I ask you and I think that to
• 2:26:54
  be answering Joachim very well to this, from the divine point of view,
• 2:26:58
  what is sin and what are its advice, what is sin in reality,
• 2:27:01
  from the point of view of God, clear according to the sacred scripture and
• 2:27:09
  starting from the most ancient texts, from the sacred scriptures, which are the
• 2:27:15
  ones that many today try to avoid, do not want to refer to them
• 2:27:22
  because it seems to them that it is something mythical, it is something windological,
• 2:27:28
  it is something distant from the current thought. But in the sacred scripture
• 2:27:33
  it is very clearly presented to us that the beginning of sin in man is
• 2:27:41
  simply the act of disobedience to God. That is why the sacred scripture of
• 2:27:46
  the Bible tells us that all that is not faith is sin. It does
• 2:27:50
  not say a sin of that sin all that is not clear. Here too,
• 2:27:56
  we must define faith, faith as that trust with security, trusting God,
• 2:28:05
  in his word, in his teaching. And when we stop trusting God,
• 2:28:13
  we stop depositing the bond in the guarantor, because we find a great
• 2:28:20
  void. Let' s try to justify our actions, let' s go
• 2:28:31
  through different ways, let' s think we' re wiser than God.
• 2:28:37
  We will ascribe to God the ungodly belief that in his commandments they are so
• 2:28:43
  that our life may be sad, that we may not be happy and clear,
• 2:28:48
  man in his old nature, for he cannot see God' s commandments
• 2:28:52
  as delights, He cannot see us as something magnificent good that God has for
• 2:29:01
  us and will ascribe to God. I insist that we think that God is
• 2:29:07
  going to throw off the spoils and that his commandments are to keep us from
• 2:29:13
  being happy. As long as man does not have that encounter with the Lord,
• 2:29:20
  that transforming encounter that takes place through the person, Jesus Christ, Jesus,
• 2:29:26
  Nazareth. For as long as there is no such encounter and no such
• 2:29:31
  change, that new nature, we cannot see God' s commandments as delights.
• 2:29:37
  And that is why the Bible tells us that all that is not of
• 2:29:41
  Fey is sin, that is, by not trusting God, we then fall
• 2:29:48
  into that position that makes us think that we know better than God. And
• 2:30:01
  that' s how God gets out of date. The Ten Commandments are becoming
• 2:30:07
  obsolete. What man does before the clear reality of sin which he does not
• 2:30:13
  call sin, he will seek a euphemism and write treatises of morality and ethics
• 2:30:20
  that are magnificent, but are simply impossible. Man can' t live up
• 2:30:30
  to that. He needs the intervention of God, He needs the grace of
• 2:30:35
  God. We need that encounter with Jesus Christ so that forgiveness of God’
• 2:30:45
  s commandments will cease to be those heavy burdens. That is why the Bible
• 2:30:48
  tells us that sin is a breach of God’ s law of forgiveness.
• 2:30:58
  The word sinned in the Hebrew original of the Bible. Well, there are
• 2:31:05
  several words. Let' s see two of them very briefly. The first
• 2:31:09
  is the word hata. The word jata fixed, which is the cry of
• 2:31:15
  the archer when he throws his arrow and does not reach the target, does
• 2:31:22
  not reach the target, because either he falls short, the shot or passes
• 2:31:26
  over, is a long shot or deviates by the wind, for any reason,
• 2:31:33
  to one side or another. And that word is, therefore, error,
• 2:31:37
  error, error, error, sin of error. And it' s
• 2:31:43
  normal that the man Jerry, the ancient theologians said human error is persevering diabolical,
• 2:31:56
  that is to say to err is human. What is of the devil
• 2:32:00
  is persevering, continuing in that error and not wanting to rectify, not wanting
• 2:32:05
  to turn us around, which is what it means to repent, to turn
• 2:32:09
  around. And then it' s a word for sin, which is the
• 2:32:13
  word meat. So with a v an hour and a n meat, it
• 2:32:20
  comes from a root which is that it means to put on a rope,
• 2:32:26
  braid it and braid it, twist it and twist it until finally it cracks.
• 2:32:33
  It is a sin of perseverance, of insistence on disobedience that brings naturally
• 2:32:41
  its consequence. When we have this vision of the reality of sin, we
• 2:32:52
  can then understand that what sin produces is what we say vulgarly or religiously for
• 2:33:01
  centuries have been called sins and man has then fallen into the trap of classifying
• 2:33:05
  them, making a sort of a systematic of sin and how times change,
• 2:33:13
  customs, change situations, change prevailing conditions, change people clearly before ancient definitions
• 2:33:18
  of these classifications of sin, for you can even produce them I tell you
• 2:33:30
  at least the smile that produces that ninety- nine pesetas was Danial sin and
• 2:33:35
  fempre was mortal sin. Yes, what interesting reflections, Joaquin. Really good.
• 2:33:48
  Which we have talked about some of them. What are the most popular
• 2:33:50
  topics about sin? For example, I can think of one for you suddenly
• 2:33:54
  that is very popular. No one is perfect, really, like we apologize,
• 2:34:01
  well, of course, it doesn' t mean we have to self
• 2:34:07
  - flagellate, but we apologize for our defective humanity. I mean, nobody
• 2:34:09
  ' s perfect, well, but we' d have to go deeper.
• 2:34:13
  Popular topics about sin. Yes, of course, by saying that no one
• 2:34:18
  is perfect, we are saying a great reality. What happens is that,
• 2:34:22
  even clear the concept of perfection, we would also have to analyze it a
• 2:34:28
  little bit in the field of the physical, because imagine the perfection, the
• 2:34:41
  perfection of a woman at a certain moment in history, is to resemble the
• 2:34:46
  women who Rubens paints at this moment, because by the pendular movement, it
• 2:34:54
  seems that perfection is in being a barbie. And of course, it turns
• 2:34:58
  out that the women of appearance in the paintings of Reubens, because they had
• 2:35:03
  to be very sick, true, very, very, very sick. But
• 2:35:07
  it is that at the other end of the movement, of the pendulum also
• 2:35:13
  the one that chooses to look like a barbie, because there are also in
• 2:35:18
  sickness the concepts of perfection in the aesthetic sense, because they have changed and
• 2:35:22
  will continue to change. When in the Bible we read that text in which
• 2:35:28
  God asks us to be perfect, as the Lord is perfect. Sure,
• 2:35:33
  that word translated perfect. If it is not nuanced, we will misunderstand it,
• 2:35:41
  because there the original word, in the original language of the Bible,
• 2:35:46
  speaks of a type of perfection that is not exactly what is most commonly understood
• 2:35:54
  today by perfection. The original word is whole, that is, what God
• 2:36:00
  calls perfection is integrity, and it is far more complete for a man who
• 2:36:05
  recognizes his sin, his imperfection, than he who conceals and covers and denies
• 2:36:11
  his sin, his imperfection. And already with this easy understanding of things,
• 2:36:20
  we realize that our concept of perfection has nothing to do with what the Lord
• 2:36:24
  Truth says in the scripture itself we are told that of course, if we
• 2:36:28
  looked at our sins, if we were always contemplating our sins, fallen faults,
• 2:36:35
  imperfections, for who could be saved. Obviously, that exclamative question demands
• 2:36:43
  an answer that is a resounding, absolutely resounding one. Now it is true
• 2:36:50
  that when you hear that expression good man, no one is perfect. It
• 2:36:54
  is not being used in this sense, but looking for a self- exculpation,
• 2:37:01
  a way of saying good, because I have not made mistakes and mistakes.
• 2:37:07
  And well, as everyone does, because I' m so happy with
• 2:37:09
  mine and I' m not willing to rectify it, I' m not
• 2:37:13
  willing to turn around. And that is where the reality of sin begins.
• 2:37:18
  In this case, yes, well, the subject we would not like to
• 2:37:24
  prolong much more for the interest it contains in its pure essence. We'
• 2:37:30
  d have to talk and maybe we won' t. To come to a
• 2:37:33
  question I want to ask you about the question about the Augustinian theology of original
• 2:37:37
  sin and that, in any case, it could make us think that,
• 2:37:46
  well, what is our fault if our Adamic federal head sinned We are not
• 2:37:54
  morally responsible. That would have an explanation that we would have to develop.
• 2:37:58
  But I like it very much that when the prophet and Seia is one of
• 2:38:01
  the prophets who speak denouncing the sin of the time, the sin of the
• 2:38:07
  people of God of the time, he says in one of the statements when
• 2:38:15
  he speaks of this messianic writing. Everyone turned away in their own way.
• 2:38:18
  Moreover, God bore in Jesus the sin of all of us. And that
• 2:38:24
  each one turned away from his way that we are like strayed sheep, very
• 2:38:28
  well defines the responsibility of each one. Truth, of course, of course,
• 2:38:37
  thinking of Augustine' s theology, of course there is an indelible reality
• 2:38:41
  and it is the fact that we sin because we are sinners, but because
• 2:38:48
  we are sinners, we also teak and the great sin of man you just
• 2:38:54
  said it in a language that is not philosophical, thanks to God, but
• 2:38:58
  it is in biblical language, that it has no ap abstractions, that is
• 2:39:03
  full of concretions. And here we are presented, therefore, the reality of
• 2:39:07
  the way, the way as the direction of our life, our trajectory.
• 2:39:13
  Each one goes his way, because the way of God is despised, is
• 2:39:18
  despised, less valued, and in that scar each on our side, for
• 2:39:26
  we will find many traps in the ways that we ourselves undertake, because it
• 2:39:35
  is necessary to bear in mind that the evil one in which many today do
• 2:39:45
  not want to believe, for he is an expert in falsifying everything that God
• 2:39:50
  has done and everything that God has asked of us and in a very stealthy
• 2:39:56
  way, he seeks to move God out of our life in man in those
• 2:40:07
  ways that the prophet says, each one undertaken and has gone astray, for
• 2:40:13
  he does not find the way back now. It' s something because on
• 2:40:18
  every road, there' s definitely a point of no return. As the
• 2:40:24
  pilots say in aviation when they talk about the point of no return, they
• 2:40:28
  have consumed more than half of the combustible and have traveled more than half of
• 2:40:33
  the project and now they can no longer return. They can' t go
• 2:40:35
  back to the point of origin because they won' t get there and we
• 2:40:39
  have to move on. And of course, that is the unbridled race of
• 2:40:45
  society in which we see that they do not believe that there is a chance
• 2:40:52
  to return to that point where the separation took place and each one embarked on
• 2:40:58
  his way. And that' s a mistake. That is the great deception
• 2:41:03
  of the evil one, the great deception of satan and other rebukes, for
• 2:41:07
  God, in his mercy, allows every man, man, man and woman,
• 2:41:13
  of course, at any moment in his life, at any moment,
• 2:41:18
  to turn around. That is, here there is no point without return and
• 2:41:22
  there are no points without return, because God, in his mercy, is
• 2:41:26
  always waiting for us to turn around, which is what it means to truly
• 2:41:33
  repent, to turn around, to meet the God who receives, who welcomes,
• 2:41:39
  who forgives, who cleans and who puts us a new nature, a
• 2:41:46
  new vision, to be able to contemplate life in another way, to be
• 2:41:50
  able to understand what otherwise cannot be understood, and to see that the will
• 2:41:54
  of God, if you want to call them and the will of God or
• 2:41:58
  call them the bossess let us call them. In short, what he has
• 2:42:05
  for us is something that, from that moment on, from the moment we
• 2:42:11
  turn around on that unbridled path, becomes something that we long for, that
• 2:42:18
  we desire and that the grace of God, that loving favor always undeserved on
• 2:42:24
  our part, will enable us to walk in that new life. That'
• 2:42:33
  s definitely the way it is, Joachim, we' re talking about sin.
• 2:42:37
  It is a moral problem, deeply spiritual, that affects all the orders
• 2:42:43
  of human life and that we see it, we can give it the name
• 2:42:46
  we want. But the problem is still what it is. It is the
• 2:42:52
  problem of the bad world, of the evil that is born in the human
• 2:42:56
  heart, and that materializes in concrete actions that have a million different names.
• 2:43:01
  How the problem of sin, personal sin, and sin in the world can
• 2:43:05
  be solved. What is the solution to the great problem of human sin,
• 2:43:13
  because we have to remember all those who have surely learned it or in childhood
• 2:43:22
  or have learned it, and we have to even remind the Church of Jesus
• 2:43:26
  Christ itself, of which we are part of the church with all the other
• 2:43:31
  family surnames that can be given. Jesus Christ did not come to look above
• 2:43:39
  sin, to look in another direction or to justify sin, but he came
• 2:43:43
  as a lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.
• 2:43:52
  So this is very important today sadly, in many Christian circles. You know
• 2:43:58
  that perfectly well and many of our listeners know it and some have suffered and
• 2:44:03
  suffer it. Cheap grace is being preached. A gospel is being preached to
• 2:44:09
  give many palms, to sing much and little more. A grace is being
• 2:44:16
  taught which is a justification of sin. There is no justification for sin.
• 2:44:24
  We can read the Bible back and forth and we can review every text and
• 2:44:31
  we will never find anything to indicate the justification of sin. Those who are
• 2:44:41
  justified by the grace and mercy of God are sinners. And God’ s
• 2:44:50
  justification for us is very distorted in our day. Very distorted because they are
• 2:45:01
  very much ignoring that justification by faith is not the stoppage Justification by the faith
• 2:45:09
  of Christ is not to cover sin, but to uproot it from our life.
• 2:45:18
  Jesus is the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
• 2:45:22
  There is a text in the new Testament, perhaps unread, that says
• 2:45:26
  the one who is powerful to keep us from falling. Then, when in
• 2:45:31
  Christian circles. Sin is constantly being justified by that phrase of good. Nobody
• 2:45:39
  ' s perfect. Sadly we also hear it within Christian circles. Indeed perfect.
• 2:45:46
  We are not in the aesthetic sense, but the Lord has put us
• 2:45:52
  on a path of perfection. He wants to perfect us. And to perfect
• 2:45:56
  ourselves is to fill ourselves with his holy spirit, to fill us with his
• 2:46:05
  love, to show us the blessing of his commandments, his precepts, and
• 2:46:09
  his secrets. Naturally, that we will not be justified by God for walking
• 2:46:15
  that good way, but are justified by the faith of Christ that is imputed
• 2:46:20
  to us, is attributed to us and in this way we can undertake that
• 2:46:28
  path, we can live in another way. It is the Lord who provides
• 2:46:35
  a great deal of means for us to overcome sin. We are told that
• 2:46:43
  we are far from the whole armor of truth, because sin has its origin
• 2:46:48
  in lies and envy, in pride, that we are ready from the height
• 2:46:54
  of righteousness, the righteousness of the Lord, that we take up the shield
• 2:46:58
  of faith, that we put on our head, the helmet of salvation,
• 2:47:03
  that we may tread our feet with the Gospel of peace. Sometimes we think
• 2:47:09
  in many Christian circles wrongly that the Gospel is for others. The Gospel is
• 2:47:15
  first for us, because no one can give what he does not have,
• 2:47:20
  and that we take the sword of the spirit, which is the word of
• 2:47:24
  God with which we will be able to put an end to all obstructions and
• 2:47:31
  all the entanglements of sin and on that road by which we win the victory
• 2:47:37
  over sin in our lives. And the merits of that victory, of course,
• 2:47:41
  are only unique and exclusively of our Lord Jesus Christ, on that Cross
• 2:47:48
  of Calvary, where he bore our sin and where he replaced us with love
• 2:47:54
  and where he shed his blood, which is the one that cleanses us from
• 2:47:56
  sin. There he is, finally, taking the question away, because dear
• 2:48:05
  friend Joaquin, Joaquin, thank you. It is the sin of a religious
• 2:48:07
  lie. I believe it has become clear that for some it could become an
• 2:48:13
  apparent religious lie, but it is a divine judgment on evil and there is
• 2:48:22
  also a divine solution to this problem of sin. And it is Jesus Christ,
• 2:48:28
  the son of God and his death, his death on the cross is
• 2:48:33
  a saving death that saves us and makes us new people. Dear Joaquin,
• 2:48:39
  it has been a pleasure to hear for me a joy also great and a
• 2:48:45
  pleasure to hear you Julio, to congratulate you on your wonderful radio, for
• 2:48:52
  your ministry and for the friendship that unites us. Thank you, dear friend,
• 2:48:56
  a very affectionate hug, Joaquin, so long. See you all the
• 2:48:58
  time. If you want to visit our Www website. The life train of
• 2:49:20
  the evangelical churches, a place of peace and friendship, you can freely attend
• 2:49:39
  the nearest evangelical church in your neighborhood or your population. You' ll be
• 2:49:46
  very welcome.