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Boxing Podcast: Shakur Stevenson Leaves Zuffa Boxing (So What Is Next?) · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we are talking Shakur Stevenson has left Zufa Boxing.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is the news that started kind of our Monday work week.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like right in the morning we got a viral video of Shakur driving a luxury car
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: and announcing that he has parted ways with Zufa Boxing.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: What makes this unique is I would say Shakur Stevenson is
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: the most high-profile signee that Zufa has picked up.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if anyone...
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: We have to unpack a lot of different things, right?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because context is key in this,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: but we should start with just the general thought experiment rather
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: than deconstructing our lead.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just state Shakur Stevenson has left Zufa Boxing or that's what he's put out there.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And now he's gone through top rank, matchroom, and now Zufa Boxing.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it appears,
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: at least through what he was saying and circulated messages,
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: that his goal is now to become a promoter,
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: which is probably the one thing you'd never wish on your enemy.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: We have yet seen a boxer, a young boxer, make the leap from pro boxer to promoter.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Really since Oscar De La Hoya successfully.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the last boxer or boxer adjacent is Jake Paul who built a big company.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So right now you have Teofimo Lopez's takeover promotions.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So far he's only run shows when he's on it and it's co-promotional agreements.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see what Shakur Stevenson does.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: But let's understand how we got here.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to fully give context to the situation.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk about the situation.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to understand who Shakur Stevenson is.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is the next guy for American boxing.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: In the amateurs, it was clear that he was the best guy of his era.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone was talking about how good he was.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: He signs.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's with a high-profile management team, high-profile promoter.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: He has a track where in 2019 he fights in Reno, Nevada.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: He fights Joette Gonzalez for a vacant belt.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: There was a good storyline to that.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wins the title.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, okay, he's accomplished.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: He's accomplished a ton.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Here is the guy in the next decade.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then this decade comes, he had some COVID fights, etc.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Picks up a belt at 30, misses weight against Kensei Sao.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Goes to 35, wins a belt there.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then in January, he's won a title over Teofimo Lopez.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's a four-division world champion.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think probably at this point, fringe Hall of Famer.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is he just hasn't had those really exciting fights.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we can get into that as well.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: One of the disconnects with Shakur Stevenson is he's a win-at-all-costs guy.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's a fighter that I think is a very interesting fighter to watch.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because he's one of the most talented I've ever seen.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: But he's unapologetic in his path to victory and his way to win.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's not necessarily going to always look to entertain the crowd.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's going to look to win fights on his terms.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Really, I'd say things have started to go odd for Stevenson in September 2022.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember doing a podcast.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was in this very room.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: He misses weight for Hobson Casaisao.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a homecoming fight in Newark, New Jersey.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's followed by kind of a tune-up level lightweight bout against Yoshino.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Quick win.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then we go into this Edwin De Los Santos.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: For those that don't remember, De Los Santos was a Thursday night fight.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: It went parallel to the F1 racing in Las Vegas.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just a dreadfully boring fight
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: where it looked like De Los Santos was fast enough to react to Stevenson.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: It looked like he was punching enough to get his attention.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we basically saw a faint battle.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Where two guys were fighting for position and not a lot was happening.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of the most critically panned fights that was a main attraction bout in
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: the last probably five to ten years.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: It got very much ridiculed for the lack.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: He returns against in a really lackluster opponent choice for the level and ability he's at.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: He fight Artem Hartanunian.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Artem was coming off a competitive fight with Frank Martin.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I believe at the time Frank Martin was a potential opponent for Shakur Stevenson.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think that The Edwin De Los Santos fight was originally supposed to be a Frank Martin fight.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's fighting a guy who gave Martin a close fight.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: It never had that compelling feel.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that was his only fight.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Then he's out of the top rank deal.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: He was supposed to fight Floyd Schofield, ends up fighting Josh Padley.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing you can do there.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Beats William Zepeda and probably the best win of his career on paper,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Joette Zepeda and Teofimo.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then in January, he beats Teofimo Lopez.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels like, OK, here we are.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: When Shakur Stevenson has turned the page, he is going to be the Boxer of the Year in 2026.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: He's fighting in January.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: If he comes back in the middle of the year,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: and if he fights at the end of the year,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: or even if he fought January and October,
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: it felt like the stage was set for him to be the guy.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And instead, when did he sign?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say he signed with Zufa maybe in May or June.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see, Shakur Stevenson.
• 5:55
  [music]
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm struggling to find when he got to Zufa.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm struggling to find it, but he signed earlier this year.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the big deal,
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: and shout out to everybody in the chat that's joining,
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: the big deal with this Signing was Zufa's like,
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: so you have two quadrants of people, right?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's the, oh my God, you guys, you boxing guys are just so simpletons.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: You don't understand Zufa has all this money and it's the smartest people ever
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: and quarter four investments and all that stuff.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to take over the sport.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's that school of thought.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's the guys that are like, boxing is built on grudges.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: People will go down in a blaze of glory, all this type of stuff.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Zufa's really had trouble in the U.S. market, in my opinion, right?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because they just haven't connected.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's not yet been a Zufa boxer that connects with the fans
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: where you feel like one of their fight weeks really take over, you know?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So Zufa's got Jaya Pataya.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: They've signed Rayo Valenzuela.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Really interesting fighter.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: They signed recently Carlos Adamis.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: They've got good fighters, right?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: But Shakur Stevenson, I was looking at this, right?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Alright,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: so let's look at ring pound for,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know what, instead of going ring pound for pound, let's go box rec.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Top 50.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we got Inouye almost done.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Then we got Boots, Shakur, David Benavidez, Junta Nakatani, Bam Rodriguez, Bivol.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Haney, Apataya, Muratala.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So amongst that list,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: and I was thinking about this when Zufa started,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to pitch it as a boxing scene story.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's like David Benavidez and Devin Haney were two of like
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: the most important signees I felt for Zufa boxing because they really impact culture
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: for the boxing world.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And wow.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like Haney and Benavidez have fans that will follow more than maybe other fans.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they felt like if Zufa could land those two early on, that would be a huge statement.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas like, let's say an older champion, like a Bivol, if he were to end up there, he's 35.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you're, yes, it's a face of a company, but how much longer does he have?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like Benavidez has at least five, six years.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Haney, if he wants to, could have five, six years.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Those felt like big names,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: but why I bring that up is Shakur Stevenson is arguably the best fighter in
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: the world.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, Inouye has more accomplishments than him.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Usyk is still an active fighter.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to be ranked higher than him by body of work.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's a lot of people that look at what Shakur Stevenson has done in
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: the ring and they look at his ability to make fights not as competitive and
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: that he's able to separate from his opponents and they say this is probably
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: the best guy in the world, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And to sign a fighter of that quality, essentially you should attract other big name fighters.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: You should attract other talent that want to fight or challenge yourself against it.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's a level of validity that comes with that.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that the shock with this is Zufa Boxing has been...
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's been trying to figure out where it fits in the marketplace in boxing
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: and boxing in general has been trying to figure out where it fits in
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: the marketplace.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like the fans are frustrated.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Feels like a lot of people don't feel like they have money currently and it feels like a.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: A fan base that's waiting for excitement that draws them back.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fan base that loves the sport and follows the sport passionately.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they're tuning into content like this right now.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it also feels like it's been a year of heavy sighs rather than a year
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: where people are very, very excited.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of odd for both sides, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because Zufa needs boxers that seem like they're the best.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Appetit kind of fits that mold,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: but I feel like, at least for me, I feel like Benavidez is just better.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure how to rationalize it or why to say it,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like, he doesn't feel like the best guy.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: The best guy feels like it's Benavidez.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And Stevenson had the rare case where it's like, maybe this really is the best guy.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this could be the best guy in the division.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're unable to come to terms for whatever it is.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Business is business.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a business talk show.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: But for Stevenson,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's weird because now you've gone through three promoters,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: three really good promoters.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: If we're being honest, Zufa, an, an, uh,
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Promoter that's entering the sport,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: which is trying to make a big impression and to lure other fighters over and to kind
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: of cultivate the most talent possible.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And they need like essentially the best fighters to do that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So Stevenson leaving, I think it creates like.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think Stevenson kind of has like the cool high school quarterback vibes to him and
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: that that could do a little bit of harm where people are going to be like,
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to go to Zufa because Shakur,
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: they didn't do right by Shakur or whatever.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that's not inherently good for Zufa who's trying
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: to build themselves up as like this is the new form of elite boxing.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And for Stevenson, it's like he's already been with Matchroom.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's been with Top Rank and now he's with Zufa.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the economics of boxing is just changing right now.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: We had an era from probably 2022 to 2026,
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: which is right now the end of this era,
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: where a lot of different things came into play.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: COVID happened.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: More people were at home watching YouTube.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: There was like a YouTube boom.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: There was a streaming boom because people were at home watching stuff.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Subtly, that has declined.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And there's fewer and fewer people that are doing that type of stuff.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: The numbers are down.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know that because of some of the stuff I do in the media industry.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And to coincide with that, we also had like outside investors.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: We had the Saudis coming in for a couple of years
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: and overpaying market value pretty clearly for fights that were of interest, right?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So there was like inflated purses.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's 30%.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Things are coming back in and then you juxtapose that
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: with Stevenson not always exciting to the average fan but extremely talented.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So he's a very talented fighter.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's probably worth the money in terms of just sheer skill.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then also, there has to be a math to getting to these numbers, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is the complicated process
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: for Zufa Boxing moving forward is how do you build something in the sport of boxing
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: that Because the easiest way to build something up is to overpay,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: have all the talent, and then say we're the best.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: By letting go of Stevenson,
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: inherently now there's always going to be questions around certain divisions
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: because Stevenson, until he retires, will be one of the best fighters.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's also a little bit of an embarrassing moment for Zufa, sadly, for them.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because they lost out on a key piece for them.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: They lost out on someone who has the keys to the future of boxing if he chooses
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: to use it, right?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the weird thing for Zufa Boxing currently,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: in my opinion, in my response to all this is, they are...
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: They like they're signing up guys right now, good,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: solid fighters, but it's not the guys that I feel like most people are coveting.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And they can make good action fights.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: But this also like the the release of Stevenson also says, hey,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: we're also looking at the budget and that that's reading between the lines.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, OK,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: things the money isn't going to be flowing possibly the same next year or the year
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: after.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a there's a long term trajectory of, you know, what does the future hold?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's interesting because this is a rare scenario where you don't really feel good.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Most people are talking about what does it mean?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't like Zufa Boxing, you're parading going, okay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you don't like Stevenson,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: you're talking about how he doesn't sell tickets and it's just a business.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me,
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: what I choose to look at this is Stevenson's arguably the best fighter in the world
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: and he's promoter agnostic right now.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't have anyone backing him.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of concerning, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: As a sport at large,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: when one of your best fighters doesn't resonate with the general fans,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: What does that say about the sport?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: What does that say about this generation of fighters?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: It just seems like we're missing something vital that previous eras was able to do perfectly.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, maybe,
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: and I think part of it is maybe just having social media and access
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: to people too much, it doesn't add the allure.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: The mystery isn't there.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: People have stronger opinions based on politics,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: based on the way you want to display yourself to the public.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think the deeper concern is Zufa is going to have a little bit of a run.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do I think they're going to take over boxing?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're going to be a solid player for as long as they want to be here.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just too difficult to run all the boxing
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: because all it takes is one outside party to overpay one fighter or two fighters.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And now all of a sudden, you don't have the whole sport.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I also think there's a little something,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: too, that the UFC, people thought the UFC was the name of the sport.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't know it was MMA.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: They thought it's UFC.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And Zufa Boxing will never be confused with boxing.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there's just a basic issue there.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is that some of the marketing has to be different.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can't just be like, this is where the best fighters are.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: When you look through the pound for pound rankings,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: or you look objectively down the list, not everybody under Zufa is the best guy.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: They have to go out and sign them or get them.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, Stevenson is one of the most talented guys.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, it's like his career has not played out the way one might have expected.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a slow burn.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt as though this year was going to be his year.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's starting to wonder...
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: At least for me, I'm starting to wonder, does it even happen?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Does Stevenson's career ever get to the point we hoped, right?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just say it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Where my mind goes from this, where my mind goes, is I have a funny suspicion that
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Shakur, Devin,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: and some of these guys are closer to being done with their careers than we think.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think that this generation of fighter is just going to be a strange era.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that when Canelo and those guys step aside...
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to see a guy really fill in the same way and that there's going
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: to be a generation that might get skipped over.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Different guys are going to rise up and then we're going to have a really interesting next day.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more about the situation the sport's in.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine 14 years ago a fighter like Floyd Mayweather not being able
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: to secure a deal via leverage, via what he brings.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that arguably one of the best fighters,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: one of the most interesting fighters,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: a guy who makes compelling matchups,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: was allowed to leave a company without fighting.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it speaks to the nature that the sport is in.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: it speaks to
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: the frustrations and also kind of maybe the lack
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: of revenue coming around boxing currently, the lack of creativity.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: So these are kind of my thoughts.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: My guy, David Payne in the chat.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: These guys think their prime is elastic.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: It never is.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It ends and often in retrospect is It can be,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: it can prove to be much, much shorter than they imagined.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: for sure, you know, I think that's the truth.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think the, the,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: just the issue with Stevenson going back to my point is I never thought like
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: a fringe pound for pound number one fighter who fights in a good division
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: between 135, 140 would ever struggle with
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: To get a fight date.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess I left out the fact that there were potentially like three
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: or four failed negotiations going on.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not, you know, it doesn't seem that
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's just hearsay and we don't understand contracts.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think the bigger issue is it's just shocking
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: that someone this valuable potentially to the sport,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: someone who could be this influential is also viewed as,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: hey man,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: we wish you the best in the future endeavors,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: which I think speaks to possibly where the sport is going.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: The sport might be going to a place where it's less about achievement and more
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: about entertainment.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people aren't as...
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Aware of that.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think we,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Zufa Boxing to me is morphing into,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: and it's probably always been, about how many good action fighters can we get?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then mixing in with the action fighters they want,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: how can we get a couple of really,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: really cultive, scintillating, top name guys who are up there high in the rankings?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Stevenson gave Zufa a lot of validity because more than likely he was going to be
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: the best guy in the world when Usyk and Inouye,
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm kind of repeating myself,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: but when they were gone, and it's just kind of like a huh, huh.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is a big, big piece to validation of Zufa.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: first off,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: you have to wonder what those conversations were like to walk away from this.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to also think about the lasting impression of what it will mean
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: for other fighters, the political ramifications on both sides.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just strange.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen a main event fighter
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I guess maybe you could say Terrence Crawford when Crawford left top rank and did
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: the BLK prime fight before Errol Spence,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: but it felt like even when Crawford was in that position, he had big money fights.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you could say Haney and Stevenson is a big fight,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: but it doesn't seem like there's that same desire to get that fight finished.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like that's a highly makeable fight, and it's not like a scintillating action fight.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Gervonta Davis versus Stevenson's a good fight,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: but Gervonta's approaching two years out of the ring, so it's like...
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the sport is changing and Zufa is a new boxing entity and them coming in
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: and saying, OK, one of the best, most talented fighters.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you like, we don't need to accommodate you at all to every single thing you want.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're coming in and we're the future.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's essentially how I view them.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're new.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And by letting go of proven talent,
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: it kind of shows where some people are forecasting the future.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: David, once again, speaks to the shift.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: We've been in a period where fighters are paid excessively and don't need risk or frequency.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: It means posturing is all part of the dance and the pitch for respect when in
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: the past the best fighters needed each other to make the best money
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: and they accepted the risk to record and their health that entailed.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a trajectory for 20 years.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: The Saudi money accelerated.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're on the come down from it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: it's just like I'd equate this moment probably with Is the boxing equivalent of when
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: the house lights come on at the bar at one o'clock and you were hoping to meet
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: that attractive girl or you're hoping to meet Mr.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful and the house lights come on and they're waving,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: they're going, okay,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: we know we say we're open till 2 a.m.,
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: but it's 1.15 and we got, you know, we're closing that door at two o'clock.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So at 1.15, bye, bye.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels like there's a shift.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this might be like, what would we call it?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Patient zero.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: That now it's not just about talent.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, okay, we understand you're talented and that the market, like what's the old saying?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Today's price isn't tomorrow's.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like we're moving to a place where you look at a lot
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: of these main event fights and they're looking like regional shows.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're watching TV fights in the US and fighters who are at a high level don't seem
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: to have strong fan bases.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't captured a region.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Part of that, I think, is also that we're slowly killing off the club scene.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it would be nice if fighters had familiarity going out to regional fights
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: or even if a fighter fought regionally.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: But then this is what no one talks about with that.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can't breach contracts.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of the allure of these contracts,
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: especially between DAZN and Paramount,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: You have to get signed off to fight on these lower level shows to get exposed to
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: a local market, which typically means they don't have a fight date for you.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes, I feel like it's a one-way street.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to take a local fight,
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: but there's fight dates for you on a big network,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: they're probably not going to let you go because they need to fill those dates.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if they don't have dates...
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: To give you a spot, then all of a sudden it might make sense for you to get a local show.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like a two-way action there.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the lack of investment in a hometown,
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: we have very little shoulder programming anymore.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: We don't get to know...
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: We don't get to know the fighters, right?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking about this the other day too and now I'm going on a rant
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: but I guess this is probably what people want to wake up in the morning or for
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: the UK people for their evening is like we get pay-per-view fights
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: that are just pay-per-view for the point of being pay-per-view.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I bought Bernard Hopkins versus Roy Jones Jr. too.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they were both about my age now.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I bought it because there was a vignette and video packages and people talking
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: about how good of a fight it was.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it was exciting.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I got caught up in it.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And now you get a fight that's behind a paywall.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's no focus on salesmanship.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the tough part of that is we've got world championship fighters, top notch guys.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Who just simply aren't really well known or don't draw very well.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going into venues and the venues don't look good.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then what happens is we have pound for pound level talents.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're not like the most exciting, charismatic.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: They come off likable to people.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: You have guys who are the most talented in the sport and they don't have fights.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the issue.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is the Zufa boxing model was meant to be a tough action fights and more
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: of them stars secondary.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And yet here they are entangled trying to please stars and can't.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's the box.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is what the issue is with boxing compared to MMA is that
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: When MMA created stars like Tito Ortiz,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, it felt as though the sport was on life support.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel as though guys wanted to get paid,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: but they also wanted the sport to continue and they wanted to be a part
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: of something.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: In boxing,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think any,
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: even though the sport's in a bad spot,
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anyone ever is like the sports on life support.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And even if it was, I don't think people care enough.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think people are like, oh man, boxing is on life support.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: We got to do something to save.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that people are just like, whatever.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of an issue, right?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is you just have boxers who...
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: This modern era,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't fault him because there's so many boxers that have been exploited
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: or haven't gotten what they've needed.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: But this boxer is a well-educated, I'm going to get the most value for my career.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what Zufa's running into is when you run into some of these modern stars,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: they have a set belief of what their value is.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now Stevenson has to go to the open market and prove what he was going to get paid was merited.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I call some guys finish line fighters.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by finish line fighters is they always find a way to get over the finish line.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: They always find a way to make the fight.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then now you have some guys that are like, I want to get as much money as possible.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fine with inactivity.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want the money and I want to be able to,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know, the achievement is good, but I just want to maximize my wealth.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And shoot, I'm trying to do that too in my own rinky dink way.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I think Zufa isn't used to
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of what boxers have been able to do for the last 20 years.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say that this model came in right when the UFC started to take fire.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: This model really stems from Roy Jones Jr.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: When he got that exclusive HBO contract,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: fighters started having more leverage than the promoters.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the fighters started being coveted because they were treated like an action star in a movie.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like Sylvester Stallone is going to be,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: and it says Stallone across the top,
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: and you tune in on fight night because this fighter's a movie star,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: and that's the belief, right?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you tune in, and Shakur, really good.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Who's he fighting?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but it's a Shakur fight night.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the point of Roy Jones.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Who's he fighting?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but he does good interviews.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: He has cool walkouts.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's highlight reels in his fights, et cetera, et cetera.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Zufa was aware of this, right?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: They have smart people there.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I think now it's like there was also a belief that Zufa's here.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're coming to take over.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's weakened a little bit.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's DAZN and Paramount.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Here it is.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is the first wake-up call where it's like, Yeah,
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: even though you guys are like one of the biggest shows and you're paying everybody,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want it on my terms.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is, it's a weird where both guys kind of, it's deflating.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's deflating for everyone.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's deflating for Shakur.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's deflating for Zufa and for the sport of boxing as a whole, it's deflating.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, in chat, let me know.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can't leave this situation and go, man, the sport of boxing is better because this happened.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: All it does is make boxing more confusing.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows where Stevenson's Stevenson's career or what he does more
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: than likely probably promotes a show.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: We'll hear in the coming months, etc.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: But now Zufa is going to have to always explain why they let go of Stevenson,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: one of the most talented fighters of this era.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And now if they can't lure in, let's go through some of these rankings, right?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if they can't lure in David Benavidez,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: if they can't lure in Devin Haney,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: if they can't lure in,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'll throw out one of my favorites,
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Osses Iglesias, who I believe has an eye of the tiger contract.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: But let's say they could figure out a co-promotional agreement.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: They can't lure in Virgil Ortiz, who has an agreement.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Keyshawn Davis, Oshaki Foster, one of these big name fighters.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: You start to wonder and go, why isn't anyone that's really high profile going there?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and you lost Shakur.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think this is one of the first times where Zufa's never been cool.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's been their issue.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's very corporate.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: But now they got...
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's like what I think there's a sentiment of what went wrong.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: What went wrong?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why did why did a boxer from a traditional boxing background not want to be there?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then for Stevenson,
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: it's like you also have to look at his situation and go,
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: look, man, you had Bob Arum, one of the world's best promoters who built you up.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: You go with Matchroom.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I thought he was under contract for a great deal with Matchroom.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I never even really realized when his contract ended with Matchroom, but that ended.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Goes to Zufa, doesn't even have a fight with Zufa.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's not that many places to...
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to start to wonder why is this?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And there's two ways.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Either you're a trailblazer and you're a visionary who's setting the world on fire
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: and you have to run things your way.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's hard to finish things.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the future will tell us that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: The future is undefeated.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to get on here.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: People asked me to do a live.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you a couple of seconds.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: What are people's thoughts on my thoughts?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of went a lot of different ways about this.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is basically the end.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: End of my live for those on the podcast.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, if you tune into the podcast, it would greatly help doing a lot of podcasts lately.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if you guys could leave a review,
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: it really helps out because then I can show that to advertisers and stuff
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: and let them know that people actually listen and I'm not sitting in
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: a closet talking boxing to myself.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that I personally think when we look back at this moment,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is we're
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: going to look at this thing and say that was a sad moment for boxing.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that sounds funny to people,
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like this to me is one of the first moments in something I fear
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: where we're valuing like everything.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Entertainment over boxing skill.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that people don't realize things like influencer boxing,
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: crossover boxing, you know, the misfits and the whatever the other names.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Those are going to get boxing dates soon because there's more viewers that tune into
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: that stuff than traditional world world boxing, world championship boxing fights.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the talent component.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: It should be what brings in the money.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: It should be what brings in the viewers.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we're losing the plot on explaining the talent.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not the broadcaster's fault.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the world we live in moves very fast.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: But when we're not valuing competitive fights and the best fighting the best
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: and talent rising to the top, it's just going to simply be Who's the most famous?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Who attracts eyeballs?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And boxing,
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: like I keep saying,
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: has this horrible fact that it consistently seems like it's embarrassing
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: where we want to tell the world that we're relevant.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's only something people who are irrelevant tend to do.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're always like, I swear people watch boxing.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I swear.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Look, look, look.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Look, Ryan Garcia's hanging out with someone really famous.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: I swear people watch boxing.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: no other sport has embraced people who are not fully qualified to be in their sport.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like boxing, but it's only fair boxing would do this because there's no qualification.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: To even be like a manager fully.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to associate with people and so forth and so on.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to get to the questions.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: My guy, David Payne, great guy.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's coming on the good fight post fight.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Dalton Smith Puello this weekend.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait to annoy.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: They shifted from their plan to my mind.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Stevenson isn't a Zufa-type person.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you that when he signed with Zufa,
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: I always thought it was kind of a strange signing because he's not
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: an action-oriented fighter.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought it was actually relevant for Zufa because he's one of the most talented fighters.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, they're going after a traditional future best.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Equally,
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: the talent isn't as good as generations because if you don't practice the craft in
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: the fights, you can't be as good.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know if I'd say the talent isn't as good.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say the fighters are just as good as any generation because I believe strength
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: and conditioning and Now you have access to YouTube and you can watch fights
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: and break down tape at any moment of any day.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think the issue is it's not just a money thing.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fighters don't get that many opportunities.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: I look at a fighter like Rohan Polanco.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: A couple years ago, he looked like a red-hot welterweight prospect.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Junior welterweight prospect.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Really excited.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Where is he?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Has he fought this year?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, let's do some research.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Has Rohan Polanco fought this year?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's fought once, is my guess.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know he fell out of a fight in January because I covered it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see what we got.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Has Rohan Polanco fought?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: He fought in...
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: He fought once in May and he's fighting in on a club show in November.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, what are we doing?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Polanco's pretty solid,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like at a certain point,
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: if you're not fighting, if you're not active, there's no fight dates.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that just speaks to the general decline of boxing currently.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have to hit a point maybe of letting go.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: And come back, but it felt like in 2019, which was an inflated year, I get it.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go 2021.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: 2021 is a year after COVID.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the numbers are a little inflated,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: but it felt like each promoter, and maybe I'm wrong, had about 15 shows.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll say 45 shows.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think we've only had, and that's in the US, I should say.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: So there's 45 shows in the US, 52, yeah, 45 shows.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: This year,
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: it feels like we've only had 20 major market shows,
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: maybe four or five really, really interesting cards.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a great way to keep people interested.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's more weeks in boxing this year where you can say, okay, hey,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: just take a week off,
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: tune in to Lukie's podcast on Saturday,
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sunday, and we'll get you updated on what happened.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: We'll tell you what happened.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think that when you see a fighter like Stevenson leave a disruptor,
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: a big disruptor in boxing,
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: in Zufa, you can't help but go, oh man, where's the sport going?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: But those are my thoughts.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Those are my thoughts on the big topical news.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: I will talk to you guys very shortly.