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JFK Files Released · The Infographics Show Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Beyond Defhographics. Everybody. We always love diving
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: deep into the stuff you send our way, and today,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: well today's a big one.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Definitely big one.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We're talking about the recently released the JFK Files.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, huge collection of material that we all have
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: sent us, and we want to try and paint as
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: clear a picture as possible of what these documents actually
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: tell us, right, you know, withoutout going too crazy. So
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: if you're enjoying these deep dines into the information you
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: send us, do us a favor and lead Beyond Infographics.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: A five star rating helps other people find the show. Absolutely,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, let's just jump right in. I mean we're
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: talking about, you know, arguably one of the most infamous
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: events in American history. November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think to really appreciate the significance
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: of these new documents, we probably ought to just quickly
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: revisit the basics, right, Okay. November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: President John F. Kennedy assassinated in Dealey Plaza in Dallas.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald is arrested soon after and then killed
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: himself two days later by Jack Ruby. The initial investigation,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: the Warren Commission concludes in nineteen sixty four that Oswald
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: acted alone.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's safe to say that that did not
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: that did not exactly end the conversation there. Now, public
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: skepticism about the loan gun in theory really sort of
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: took off from there, and all kinds of different theories
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: were proposed, involving everything from the CIA to the mafia,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to Cuba to the Soviet Union, you know, especially set
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: against this backdrop of the Cold War, it's not surprising
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: that people were suspicious of the official explanation right right.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: And of course, if you like what you hear on
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  Speaker 2: It really helps.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it helps people find the show.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: That kind of skepticism I think was only amplified in
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six when the House Select Committee on Assassinations
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: or HCA concluded that there was a high probability of
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: a second shooter. Yeah, and so I think this really
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: fueled the desire for more transparency and access to all
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: these files.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Right, which brings us to the whole push for transparency
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: around these JFK files. It's remarkable how much public pressure
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: played a role in this probably you know, kicked into
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: high gear by Oliver Stones nineteen ninety one film JFK.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: But this is what led to the nineteen ninety two
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act. What can
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: you tell us about what that legislation did well?
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: And of course, before we move on, if you're enjoying
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: this deep dive into the JK files, please take a
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: moment to rent Beyond Infographics five stars. Your support really
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: makes it different.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: So, this this nineteen ninety two Act, it was basically
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: created to mandate the collection of all of the records
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: associated with the assass nation, Okay, and to set a
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: deadline for their release.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: The original deadline was twenty seventeen, gotcha. Of course, the
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Act did have provisions sure to withhold certain documents under
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: specific conditions, mainly related to national security. And you know,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: it's important to note that even before this latest release,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: by twenty twenty five, about ninety nine percent of the
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: roughly three hundred and twenty thousand Kennedy documents had already
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: been released. There were releases in twenty seventeen, twenty twenty two,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: and twenty twenty three. But even still, there were a
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: substantial number that were that were either fully withheld or
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: at least redacted in part.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Right, okay, so that gives us the backdrop for the
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five release. Right. This This happened on March eighteenth,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, under Executive Order fourteen one seventy six.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: You know, a campaign promise fulfilled as they say, can
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: you give us like the quick and dirty, you know,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: the vital stats on what was in this latest release.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, just a quick reminder that if you
• 4:01
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  Speaker 2: rating for beyond infographics, it helps us a lot.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: So this this latest release comprised about sixty three four
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: hundred pages of material.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: It was released in two batches on that same day.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: They were posted online and they're also available for review
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: in person at the National Archives. It is worth noting, though,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: that even with this release, some documents are still being
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: withheld under specific sections of the nineteen ninety two Act.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Sure these relate mainly to things like court seals, grandury secrecy,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: tax return information, you know, things that are legally protected.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we've got we've got the historical background, the
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: legislative journey to transparency, you know, all laid out. Now
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: let's get to let's get to the meat. Okay, let's
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: get to the good stuff.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the juicy details.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: What does it say? What are the key insights, yeah,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: that have emerged from these files?
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: What? What are some of the big big things these
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: documents are shedding light on right right?
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And you know, if you're learning something new from this
• 5:07
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• 5:10
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• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: One of the things that I think is particularly interesting
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: is what it reveals about CIA operations during that period. So,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: for example, the files actually give some details about CIA
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: wiretapping activities in Mexico City.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, between December of nineteen sixty two and January
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: of sixty three. Okay, this is targeted at the Soviet
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: and Cuban embassies, as well as an American who is
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: known to have Communist ties. And what's kind of cool
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: is that they actually mentioned some of the covert methods
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: that were used, including UV marked phones, the marked phones.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that sounds like you know, James Bond, that
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: sounds like something out out of a spy movie.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: So that's fascinating.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And on top of that, we now have fifteen pages
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: that were previously redacted, the detailed CIA surveillance tactics huh,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: and the way that they recruited double agents. Wow. So
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I mean this is really giving us kind of an
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: unprecedented glimpse into, you know, the world of mid twentieth
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: century spycraft.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, wow, so this is this is where it gets
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: really interesting. I mean, aside from you know, the cool
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: spy stuff, what else, what other kind of big details
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: did these files bring to light? Okay, Well, before we
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: get into that, just another friendly reminder to rate Beyond
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  Speaker 2: Infographics five stars. If you're enjoying this discussion, we really
• 6:37
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• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes a huge difference.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: So another interesting thing that these files kind of confirm
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: are some of the activities of Lejavi Oswald in the
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: lead up to the assassination. So the files, now unredacted,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: corroborate his visits to the Soviet and Cuban embassies in
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Mexico City in September of sixty Okay, where he was
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: he was trying to get visas Okay. Also, there's there's
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: details about this phone call he made to the Soviet
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: embassy in October of sixty three, Oka, that was intercepted.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: And I think the crucial takeaway here is that there's
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: still no evidence to suggest that he was being directed
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: by any foreign entities, Okay, which of course supports the
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: prevailing view that he was acting alone.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Right. So this this is confirming some existing understandings. Did
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: it did it challenge or contradict any previously held assumptions?
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Not? Really, not, not in a major way.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Okay. What about what about the long standing rumors of
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: CIA plots against Fidel Castro?
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, did these documents say anything new about that?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: You know, they do shed some light on on those
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: on those conversations that were happening. You know, if you
• 7:56
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• 7:58
  Speaker 2: a five star rating. It helped people find the show
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: and keeps these deep dives coming.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and lets us know that you guys are enjoying
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: this kind of content.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: So documents from nineteen sixty four actually detail internal CIA
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: discussions about assassinating Fidel Castro.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Really yeah, okay.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: One plan that involved the Mafia Wow, was apparently shelved,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: likely due to opposition from Robert F.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Kennedy. Wow.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: So, I mean this really illustrates the level of paranoia
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: that that was going on during the Cold War and
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: the lengths that they were considering going to.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it really kind of it paints a
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: picture of, you know, what the climate must have been
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: like back then. Yeah.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: So this also kind of touches on this. You know,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: this this widely discussed tension between President Kennedy and the CIA. Right,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: did these did these newly released files tell us anything
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: anything new about that relationship?
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And this is something we always appreciate. If you're
• 8:56
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• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: It helps us a lot, it really does. So, you know,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: one of the things that's that's really insightful about this
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: release is what it what it reveals about that dynamic. Okay,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: So there's an unredacted memo from June of nineteen sixty
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: one written by Arthur Schleussner, junior to President Kennedy. And
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: in this memo he's expressing concerns about the CIA overreaching
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: its authority.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: And it even it even goes as far as to
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: quantify the number of CIA personnel that were stationed in
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: various global hotspots Okay, like like Paris, Austria, Chile.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Wow. And this memo really underlines the growing distrust that
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Kennedy had of the agency, right, especially after the whole
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Bay of Pigs.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: FIASCA right, Right, So that's that's a pretty critical piece
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: of the puzzle. You know, what about what about all
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: the speculation about mafia connections right to the assassination? Did
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: these fi I'll shed any light on on those theories?
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Well, and before we delve into that, a quick reminder
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: to our listeners if you're enjoying this kind of in
• 10:08
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• 10:12
  Speaker 1: be fantastic.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: So, you know, the files do contain some mentions of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: potential mafia links. Ok It's possible that they were that
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: they were related to the plots against Castro Okay, or
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: maybe to Oswald's connections in New Orleans.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: But it's important to note that that there's no definitive
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: proof of any conspiracy involving the mafia that has surfaced
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: in these documents. Okay, it's still very much.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: You know, it's speculation in the realm of speculation.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Gotcha. Yeah, okay. Were there were there any other you know,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: notable people or events that were referenced in these files?
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, there were. For example, there are fifty seven
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: documents okay that mentioned Martin King Jr. Yeah, and seventy
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: seven that mentioned Robert Kennedy.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: For the most part, though the context of those mentions
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: relate to their own assassinations. There are only a couple
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: of instances where rfk's assassination is mentioned in relation to
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: the JFK files.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. So we've we've covered we've covered a
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: lot of of of the content in these files. What's
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: what sort of like the big takeaway, you know, what's
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the prevailing analysis from from historians and researchers about about
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: what these revelations mean.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Well, and you know, we always love to hear your feedback,
• 11:31
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• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it helps us out a ton.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, so, based on on the early analysis, historians
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: like Frederick Laugeval and Kevin Boyle generally suggests that the
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: documents reinforce the Warren Commission's conclusion, okay, that Oswald acted alone.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Jefferson Morley, who's a researcher at the Mary Farrell Foundation,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: called the release encouraging, okay, because it unredacted some documents
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: that did kind of shed more light on, you know,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Kennedy's skepticism of the CIA, the plots against Castro, the
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: surveillance of Oswald. But he also pointed out that a
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: lot of files that were previously promised, including IRS records
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: and some newly discovered FBI files, weren't included in this
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: particular release.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. So despite the mountain of documents, it's still not
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the complete picture. What other kind of observations are the
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: experts making.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: So it's important for us to acknowledge the support of
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: our listeners, and a great way to do that is
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: by rating Beyond infographics five stars. Your reviews really help
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: us out absolutely. You know. Scholars like David Jay Guero
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: and Tim Neftlly have made the point that it seems
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: like the information that is still being withheld is more
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: about protecting intelligence sources and methods than it is about
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: concealing any evidence of a conspiracy. Related to the assacination itself. Uh.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, the the level of detail
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: we're getting about about Cold War spycraft, like the UV
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: marked phones kind of supports that that interpretation.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, what about what about reactions from the public
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and the Kennedy family.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Well, as you can imagine, reactions have been mixed. Jack Schlossberg,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: who is President Kennedy's grandson, criticized the timing and the
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: handling of the release. Robert F. Kennedy Junior, on the
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: other hand, has doubled down on his belief that the
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: CIA was involved, although these files don't really offer any
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: new evidence to support that theory. You know, online we're
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: seeing a lot of conspiracy theories popping up again and
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: and then historians are are kind of urging everyone to,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: you know, be patient and analyze these documents carefully, right, Uh,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: you know, before jumping to conclusions. And of course, we
• 13:56
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• 13:59
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  Speaker 2: star rating. It really does help us.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: A lot, it does, it does. So this is this
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: is clearly still a discussion in progress. You know, even
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: after this this big document release, What are the prospects
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: for getting even more information down the line.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Well, there are still about five hundred documents that are
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: sealed for legal reasons, okay, And there are something like
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: twenty four hundred new FBI files that are being reviewed
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: and might be released later.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Gotcha.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: The National Archives is also still digitizing their collection, but
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: some of the documents are only available if you go
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: to Maryland to see them in person. So even though
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: this was a big release, the full story is probably
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: going to keep coming out little by little.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Okay. So what does all this mean for you the learner?
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I mean this whole deep dive into the JFK files.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: It's clear that while this massive document release gives us
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of interesting details about Cold War in intelligence operations,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: about how agencies like the CIA worked, it doesn't really
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: change the prevailing narrative that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I think I think the real value here
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: is that we get this much richer understanding of the
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: historical context.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and don't forget. If you found this analysis helpful,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: please rate beyond Infographics five stars.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And you know this this decade's long struggle
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: for transparency and the links that the intelligence agencies went
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: to protect their methods. You know, it's pretty fascinating. Yeah.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really highlights the complexities of history and how
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: even with so much you know, primary source material available,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: definitive answers can still be elusive. You know, I think
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: this release gives us a more nuanced and a more
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: detailed picture. But but if you're looking for some some
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: huge revelation that completely overturns the Warren Commission's findings, I don't.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I don't think you're going to find it here. Right,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: But these insights into how intelligence worked back then, and
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: and you know, these tensions between Kennedy and the CIA,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I think they offer some really valuable lessons and they
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: keep this conversation going.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I think that's it's very well said. So
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: what stands out to you most from this deep dive?
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: You know what questions are still kind of swirling around
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: in your head. We encourage you to keep exploring this.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: It's a it's a fascinating event in American history. Absolutely,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: And if you found this deep dive informative and engaging,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: please take a moment to give us a five star rating.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: You know, your feedback helps other people find this show, Yeah,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and find this shortcut to understanding some pretty complicated topics.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: That's right. And on that note, that concludes this deep
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: dive into the JFK files. Yeah, thanks for joining us,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Everybody,