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James Prince - the realities of making it as an International financial planner in Abu Dhabi · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advisors.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: They also have a niche specialism in financial planning.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So be be sure to check out their website for the latest job opportunities, blog articles, and hints and tips.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sam Oakes and I'm joined today by James Prince.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: He's an international financial planner.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And in this podcast, we discuss why he decided to change his career from criminal defence lawyer to becoming a financial planner in the UAE.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: We also look at the earning potential over there.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's earning well over seven figures.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: The business opportunities that are presented to you, and also the realities of working offshore.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Sam Oakes.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this episode is coming to you from quarantine.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Although I'm in my office, it's across the road.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've uh managed to sneak out and avoid being a father, even though it's a bank holiday.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe I'm working on a bank holiday.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Unbelievable.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: But um that's the kind of craziness I think of this lockdown, really.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so today I am joined by um a guest uh over Zoom, and it's a chap called James Prince.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um I've had some really great conversations with James, and um, it's really interesting to me because in my 11 and a half years of working in financial planning recruitment, um I've always heard stories about people that go and work offshore, and some of them make a real success out of it, and some of them don't do so well.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I hear a lot of horror stories, and a lot of the time candidates do ask me, you know, Sam, what's it like working offshore?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, sometimes I've got some really great stories to tell, and and and you know, and other times not not so good.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's I think it's really great to have somebody on the podcast who's gonna talk about the realities of working offshore, how they've made it a success, and why perhaps you should, if you're thinking about it, uh move offshore and become a financial planner.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I said, James Print, and um I'm gonna introduce you to James.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, James, um, thanks very much for coming onto the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, it's a it's a podcast designed to share um your experiences, your highs and lows, um, everything about your career really, as to why you got into financial planning and um really how you've made it a success.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um hopefully people can learn from your experience.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: So um, thank you very much for joining me today.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: No problem, Sam.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Great stuff, mate.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so um I think the first question I always ask everybody really is, and I'm always interested to know, um, is why did you decide to become a financial planner?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is probably not going to be your traditional answers, but it it was I was always into into finance, investments, and properties.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but actually the the thing for me was my my best friend.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he actually it was more about the place than the job.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So my my best friend uh moved out to uh to Abu Dhabi uh from the UK um in 2010.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh at the time I was a criminal defence lawyer.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And at that at that point I was getting a little bit fed up.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'd done eight years defending criminals and was getting a little bit frustrated with it and you know wanting to help people, but at the same time, criminals are not really that appreciative of when you're doing when you're doing good work.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and so I went on a couple of weekend holidays to Abu Dhabi, fell in love with the place and thought, you know what, I I uh I want to be out here, I want to move country.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I started to to scour the the web and and look for um you know what I could do, um, you know, a new opportunity, and I came across some adverts for DeVea, PIC DeVia, uh and a company called Global Eye, and thought actually, you know, maybe I I could be a financial advisor and had a few conversations on the phone with the recruiters for the firm.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So just sent my C V, uh, got a call within a couple of days, and they explained the role and and you know, said that you could earn 100 grand a year.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time that I was probably earning 25,000 pounds a year, something like that.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, wow, this this sounds amazing, and it's tax-free, and you know, it's the sunshine, and it's something new, and it's a new challenge.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: At the time I was 27, 28, um, and thought, uh, yeah, I'll I'll go ahead and have the interview.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the how it came about of me becoming so.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, quite simply, a friend, a friend working, you know, a friend working and living abroad, you went out there to visit them and thought, you know, I wouldn't mind a piece of this, I wouldn't mind living abroad.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think at 27 as well, you do have that kind of thought in your head, don't you?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Of like um, you know, living abroad is in your mind.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: You've got that kind of no fear really, and I think probably less less commitments.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have children or uh wife?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, nothing like that.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean not long long-term girlfriend, and um, you know, I think it was just a culmination of things that that wasn't really going in direction that that we wanted to, and you know, I was living in the countryside at the time, but it was like you know, 27 and settled down for retirement.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, right, okay.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and I was getting ity feat and just wanted, you know, a new challenge.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's where you know it all pieced together, and as I say, the rest is the rest is history.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you were working as a lawyer previously to being a financial advisor.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and you didn't you didn't sort of have in the back of your mind a desire or a burning ambition to become a financial planner, it's just that you found and stumbled across a role in a country that you wanted to move to.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and at the time, you know, when I when I made the transition across, it it was more about uh for me, it was more about the place and the lifestyle.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and even though I know myself that when I go into something, I do it, you know, 110%.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh initially it was it was okay, well, I'm going to be a financial advisor, but primarily it was about being where my best friend is and and and having a change and a new challenge.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then as the job unraveled uh over the years, which we we can come to, uh, I then realize actually, you know, this is a this is an amazing job to be doing, and I'm fortunate that you know I stumbled across this.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, well, let's get back to the start then, because absolutely there are a lot of recruitment consultants that are out there, and you mentioned one of the big companies out there, DeVere as well, and they've got a huge amount of like um internal recruiters, and dare I say it, are out there really selling the dream of what it's like to work as an offshore financial advisor, you know, painting a picture of all the road to paved with gold, and you're gonna make a hundred thousand pounds, you know, a hundred thousand pounds a year in your first year, and it's it's really easy to do, and we're gonna train you, we're gonna develop you.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I suppose where I've heard the I've heard the horror stories from, you know, there's people saying, oh, well, like you go out there, I'm a financial advisor, I've gone out there and I'm sitting next to somebody who sold sells washing machines at Comet the weekend before, you know, that these aren't real financial planners.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there was that kind of feeling around working off of shore, you know, off offshore.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what was your experience like?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, coming from a very professional background of law into a financial planning position.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: When you went over there, in your first who were you working for first of all then when you went out there?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: For Global Eye.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: For Global Eye, okay.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So what was your first, you know, what was your perception of what it was going to be like to the reality, your first three months?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: What was it like?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was it was very different in that you know, I got I got promised that I'd be given support, that they'll give you training, that it would be this, it'd be that.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you got there, it was literally just there's a desk, there was nobody in the room, uh, and you know, there's a telephone and get on with it, and I'll see you at the end of the week.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, throwing yellow pages at you type thing and say, you know, here's a phone, here's a yellow pages, now um can you make some money type type situation?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you see, that's that's what I've heard, you know.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's that is what I've heard.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I think that's where like I don't really want to bad mouth many companies, but the veer doesn't get really the Veer Group, for example, doesn't really get a very great name out there for those very reasons.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I have come across a lot of people who who who've had that experience, so that is incredibly challenging.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you get no background of financial planning, no experience of that whatsoever.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: You've been in law, so you're probably not even used to selling yourself, let's say.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is that is that yeah, yeah, true true, completely true.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I would never say, you know, I'm I'm strong at sales or anything, never never had any practice on it, never had any training on it.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I had a I had a a one-week course in the UK that I had that you had to pass, so there was about 25-30 people that turned up at the course in Manchester.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it was literally a crash course on how to be an international finance advisor in a week.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the the the the five days that we were there, and it was full, you know, eight-hour days.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh were really, I'd say 80% of it was just around the pitch.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: The pitch had to be word for word.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, the vacant this is what you have to say when you first get in front of a client.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right, okay.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, the I don't think 25-30 people, three of us passed the course, the rest of them failed.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then I was the only person that ended up actually going out there and and doing the job.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So 30 people going for their induction day in the UK, three people passed it, and you're the only one that went out there.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: There we go, uh crikey.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a that's pretty crazy.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, that's pretty mad.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, cool.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, all right, so obviously you were sold a dream, you've passed the course, you've got yourself out there, you were put into a room with a phone and told to get on with it.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, what were you thinking at that point?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Were you thinking, oh my god, or were you what you know, how what was going through your mind?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I still remember the the Skype date that I used to have with my parents, and and that of course they were a little bit concerned that you know he's going to this new country, okay, he's his best friend's there, but he doesn't know anything about this.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember having a Skype, and Mum and Dad were as shocked about it as me because they were saying, Okay, so tell me about the training you've been having and the support.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't exist.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: That there's there's none of it.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the manager of so I went to Abu Dhabi, yeah, and and there's there's a little bit of a difference between going to Abu Dhabi.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that at the time, but looking back, there's quite a big difference between going into the environment in Abu Dhabi compared to Dubai, because Dubai back then, things were changed a little bit now, and back then was this you know huge animal of a company, whereas Abu Dhabi was was a fraction, maybe 10-20 percent of what Dubai.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a one manager in in Abu Dhabi uh who was doing her own role as an advisor, and she was successful at her job, and uh you know she didn't have any time for me.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really a case of me.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: There was a couple of other advisors just picking their brain.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: They'd been doing the job for maybe one, two years, but not really successfully.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I was just trying to pick up from them on the things that were really weren't working as much as the things that were, and just trying to learn quickly.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of a bit like the blind the blind leading the blind.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bit like the blind leading the blind, yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose as well, when someone's out there, even if they're running, that's a bit like recruitment, if even if they're running a business, they're they're they're still like a billing manager almost, yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they're running their branch, but at the same time, they're out there trying to win their own business.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were when you were enticed to go out there, would did they give you a basic salary or was it completely self-employed?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: How did how did that work?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: How did you, you know, how did you fund yourself?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: They they uh they did offer three months free accommodation.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So in and this was just in Abu Dhabi, so um the accommodation was free for three months, but no, no income, it was nothing at all.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just you know, I was fortunate enough to be able to save a little bit of money.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think I probably had 10,000, 12,000 pounds savings that I managed to save.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: But when I moved out to to uh to Abu Dhabi, and I ended up selling, you know, a watch and things like that after because I ran out of cash.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I had to basically, you know, completely back myself.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but but yes, it was just first three months of combination free, and then it was just getting out there and and um you know using the the the savings that I had to get me through the first, you know, they they they always say you probably six months before you get a sale.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I knew okay, well, I have to after one month of I've probably gone through about five grand because you do you treat me like a holiday.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then you realise quickly that I can't carry on like this because I'm gonna have no money and I'm gonna be going back home with a tail between my legs.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, expensive holiday.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um so uh so yeah, quickly, quickly adjusted and realize that you know we need to knuckle down and get and get stuck in and you give it, you know, give it six.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna do it, you need to give yourself properly six months.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right, okay.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: So again, that's that's another reality check, isn't it?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: People say you get out there, you know, this leads for you to work, you're gonna be earning money straight away.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: But in reality, what you're saying is if you're gonna come and work offshore, but certainly back when you when you started, um you felt that you know you needed a good six months before you got a deal across the table, you know, a sale as you would call it.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So what when you were over there then and and and and in those early stages working for Globaliye, how did you win clients in your, you know, in those early stages?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: How would how did you because obviously you you know, and we'll get we'll get into this, but you were a very successful international financial planner.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've built a really really great business and built some amazing clients.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super impressed, and that's why I got you on the podcast, because it's like, well, how can you go from working as a criminal lawyer to becoming an international financial planner with loads of clients and earning some serious seven-figure earnings?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's amazing.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to kind of understand that a little bit more and how how you went about doing it.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, without any experience, what how how did you generate your clients when you were working offshore?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Initially from coal calling.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, I was fortunate that my my my best friend that moved out there was working at a golf club uh as a golf professional and um who now since he now works with me, so he does the same job as Nate.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Does he?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so uh but at the time he had had some data uh of of of clients and and he said to me, you know, start with these.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was literally just sitting in the corner cold calling because I had nowhere to start.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that that was the only way that I was going to be able to build the business.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I you never really know how difficult something is really until you you know you you get into it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't think it would it would be as difficult as it was.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I just thought it would be a case of you know just turning up, getting into the office, uh, and maybe some people giving me some clients, and and all of a sudden, you know, you you make some calls and people go, yeah, I want financial advice.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can you come and see me?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you realize that actually after making you know, 500 calls and everyone's saying to you, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you realize that this is this is really tough.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: But that's really refreshing to hear, actually, because I think uh a lot of people will just think and and probably be told that it's very easy, go out there, you know, you get you get your clients, no problem at all.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: People have passed you some business.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, listen, there might be some companies out there that do that and it might have changed it as the very early stages that you've done it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It reminds me very much of like any any kind of sales job like that reminds me very much of recruitment.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have this perception in your mind of what it's gonna be like.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm gonna work in a recruitment agency, and all these people are gonna want jobs, and all these people are gonna want to hire, and I'm just gonna be a real helpful person.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: You don't realise just how many phone calls you have to make, how much rejection you have to go through, you know, how tough it actually is before you start earning some really good money in it.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and people just kind of have an expectation that you know it's it's gonna be it's gonna be easy.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's even hard, I think it personally, it's even harder nowadays because you've got so many different plates to spin and so many different ways to try to generate clients, whether it's marketing, sales calls, networking events, or whatever it is.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, you've got to really be quite focused.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas, I don't know, sitting in the corner and making 500 calls to a list sounds quite quite attractive these days, to be honest with you.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like quite a quite a simple process.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a simple thing to focus on.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like one thing to focus on.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a simple process, isn't it?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right, okay.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, all right then.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So in your first six months, you were you were sort of hemorrhaging cash by the sounds of it, not making any client, you know, getting any clients on board.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: So all of a sudden you won your first client.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can you remember what your first client was like that you won?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it was a gentleman that I uh actually cold called, uh, and he's a good good friend uh now after uh you know nine years, and uh he said, Yeah, come and see me.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he was an Arabic gentleman, come and see me.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm interested in some some life insurance.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And uh this was after about three months.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, after making I I was I was probably doing one, two hundred calls a day, uh, and I was meeting three, four people a day.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh half of them would cancel, so probably I I probably had three, four meetings in the diary day, I'd probably sit down with maybe two a day.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the majority of times it was just you know, no, no, no, no.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I remember the first four or five meetings I went along in with this pitch memorized in my head.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Too nervous to do it when I went into the first five, ten meetings because I ended up, I remember first meetings, I ended up talking about mortgages.
• 17:59
  unknown: Right.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I came out of the meeting thinking, you know, James, are you a mortgage advisor?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are you well you've gone in thinking that you're you know you're you're an advisor and you've got you know a very limited amount of skills and knowledge behind you, and then all of a sudden you go talking to a guy about UK mortgages.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the path, like with anything, you know, you're not sure how the path path goes out, but uh yeah, after a lot of calls, got got chatting to a guy on the phone, which seemed genuine.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want some, I've got a couple of kids, want some life insurance, and and went along and and it was backward forwards with some meetings, uh I think we had three four three, four meetings, and he said, Yeah, this is what I want.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, after three months that that was the that was the deal.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think at the time it was probably like about ten, eleven thousand dollars.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right, uh the the the deal, uh which which was you know ridiculous for me.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just thought, you know, I just won the lottery.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's mad and uh and and had this this case come through.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then he became, you know, we played golf with each other, became a really good friend and and client.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's interesting then, because uh again, you know, offshore financial advice around um regulation um and commissions and fees, etc., has always kind of still does really get a little bit of a bad rap.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um your first bit of business that you wrote was a life protection policy and you earned 11,000.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did you personally earn that, or was that like split between you and your business?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or it was so back back then, because the the change that each company has a different way in which they kind of quote the figure and how much they get paid, but yeah, it was to me was probably about say seven or eight.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it's it's a bit bit with the company I used to work for, the way in which they probably the gross might have been say 1314, and I would have got say seven or eight, something like that.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to actually sort of so back then, um, and we talk about the changes probably to the regulations that's happening and and what's going on and um because I know it is changing out out there.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so back then you were you were earning commission, essentially, full full commission on products.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So the product provider would would pay you that that commission to sell that product.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So did you have like a a selection of products that Globalize said you've got to use?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Was there like a restricted panel?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you use anything you have you wanted?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, yeah, yeah.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: We were we were free to use what we wanted.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, the typically there was four or five different companies that you would that you would select um as the main the main players as a as a as an insurance company or in uh as a product provider.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and at the time, you know, I I understood two products.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: That was one thing on the course that that we got, you learned the products quite well.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So based on what the client was looking for, um the the the product that was a product that I selected.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Fine.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you had you know you understood your needs-based selling off the back of the product range, but it was purely commission-based.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: So for you, like getting a deal across, getting one deal done was going to earn you some, you know, considerable considerable amount of commission.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: How long, how long did you have to wait for that money to come through then?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is it was it is it quite quick or yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's typically two, three weeks after the first payment goes through.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, let's say I I sign him up on the 10th of the month, he might pay on the first of the following month.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so then I it would be say a month after, typically, a month, six weeks after you would receive all of that money in your in your bank.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that guy was Arabic then, was he?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Was he was he was he a local or no, no, no, no, as an expat.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's an expat, okay.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Which kind of leads me on you know leads me on to another question, really, around winning sort of clients that are over in in in in Abbey Dabby.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because obviously it always says expat, doesn't it?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Expat financial advisor.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not just looking at expats from like the UK, for example, originally from the UK, um, you're looking at expats from all over the world.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that is that right?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, I mean, some people do go.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: that out there and and I mean DeVir typically will just target British people because they want to take on their pensions and that they will say that you know it's easier to deal with a with a Brit.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And for me it was just that the data that I had it wasn't it wasn't a a thought process behind it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: The data I had was uh you know everything every every everybody and anybody I didn't know who they were what they did it was just going through a list of names and calls and actually the the the list all of the British people on the list just said not interested go away so that the the majority of the meetings were non-brits they were like expat expats but non-brits and that's kind of how the business grew you know it wasn't a um uh a decision to take to to select these type of people it's just the way that the business went okay so that was your first deal that set you off then basically so then all of a sudden you thought to yourself bloody hell I can do this and that's quite interesting.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the reality and it's quite a good lesson I think for anybody who's starting out in any kind of sales job or any international especially international financial advice position that it can take time to get that first deal done um and to stick at it and persevere with it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you've got one done I assume you think to yourself wow brilliant I know I can I know I can do this I know I can get a deal done I know I can make some money out of this I know I can make a career out of it.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: How did that transform how you were feeling and you know about the job itself it's a bit of uh not great actually because you you well you you feel really high after it of course because you know this this this huge this huge uh commission and you feel like you know because you've worked hard for a few months in this achievement but then at the time I kind of thought well I've I've done it now I've nailed it and then actually you know I didn't I didn't do another sale for about three four months after that.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh right.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I I've gone back to running out of cash again you know spent spent the cash because it is expensive out there which we might come on to but it is it is expensive so gone back to to ground zero again thinking well what do I do you know I'm I'm back to square one and that for me there was a lot of periods where within it took me probably about eight nine months to get up and running um and there's probably three or four occasions during the eight nine months where I thought this is so difficult I I can't do this anymore I've got to go home.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was really challenging.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you had many times where you think about giving up yeah so it was it was it was a probably a two month period after three two to three month period after the first sale where I didn't have anything again um and then things started to pick back up and you know it's just the case of keeping the plates spinning the moment that you especially at the start you've got to work so hard to get that engine turning but then once it's turning and you've got all these plates spinning the more likelihood you have of of making sales and it's just it's really difficult at the start to get them plates turning that you know that big engine running.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is it are we talking almost like a pipeline here is that is that the type of thing or is it just the the the the understanding of different parts of the role and um how to win clients and when to phone and and and and how to manage your day with these all the things everything everything everything yeah you you you you I mean the the job's still difficult now but because like with anything you've got years of experience you've got confidence you've got belief you know what to do when to say when to turn the tap on when to turn it off whereas at the start you've just got to make mistakes and and then mistakes are very costly but you've got to go through that before you can start to go okay well that works and it and actually if I say this like that to a client they they like it and it comes across well and you have to play play it by ear and no matter how much training you know we all go through as in sales and um you know I actually think you come across very well Sam in terms of sales you ask really good questions and things but you you you have to be um you have to be yourself you know it's all well and good someone saying right well you need to be DeVere white shirt clean shaven have a pitch you know do this but we're humans at the end of the day and and the more the more you the more yourself and true to yourself you are the more believable and likely uh and likable that you'll you'll come across okay so it's about yeah absolutely being honest and um and trustworthy as well I think you know people can see through somebody who's who's bullshitting and someone can you know people can see through someone who's trying to trying to trying to get a number over on them basically it's very very obvious and I think you know clear you know classic sort of behavioral psychology and how we how we interact with each other is the thing that people buy really the old classic people buy off people and it and and I think when you've got a background of criminology I think or criminal especially a law background in criminology I'm sure you've had to get some people on your side back in those days as well like you know and there's a lot of there's a lot of psychology around being a working in law as well isn't there that that probably panned across that um all right then cool so that was your kind of first year so good nice little sum up really and that was key the key thing that I wanted to get from this was you know what is the reality you're being honest right now you know that some people come on these you know some someone would like uh if I spoke to a recruitment consultant who specifically recruits for offshore financial advice roles right you know wherever they might be Kazakhstan or whatever they will sell it till it's blue in the face of how easy it is that oh it's this it's that you know you're gonna make loads of money and there's loads of clients out there and people are earning millions of pounds and that's true people do earn very very good money out there as you rightfully pointed out it's a small percentage of the people that actually fire through the hard times and the crap and how difficult it can be because you're not going to get an abundance of training you're not gonna get an abundance of development and and and in in in some companies anyway um and and it is down really to the individual and their attitude towards wanting to achieve their goals do you think is a big part of that is is is the attitude and the drive that person has and the discipline that person has because as you mentioned like I I could imagine some people going out there 23 years old really big bollocks egos like you know the size of a double decker bus and getting their first commission check, buying a Rolex and then coming home.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's the way I can kind of understand it probably happening people just failing or just drinking themselves into stupor or something and getting oh god you know it's been a holiday on coming home with their tail between their legs so it's I think it's good to hear that that's the reality that you experience the re you know the reality is it is hard and that um it's tough to tough to get on with but move moving on from that then because you've obviously been out how many years have you been out in the UAE now?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh come nine over nine now.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Nine years right so if you've done nine years in the UAE you must must have been a success.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: So walk me through your journey then from your first year of you know pains and struggles walk me through your journey over the last nine years to where you are now so the I was with Global eye for say about four and a half years.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yep and then the last five years I've been with uh another company Arlo Associates and uh it's kind of a joint joint name Arlo and and seven insurance brokers.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the first four and a half years was it you know started off as where I explained the first six nine months was was really challenging.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: At the time they had a hundred people working for the company internationally so you know for me being quite competitive you know you're looking at the list and going okay well what them guys do differently that from what I'm doing you know how are they succeeding?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um how are they writing because it's all figure based so you're obviously looking at the board and you're looking and everything's around just how much money are they making and we go to these quarterly uh events and you know you meet these people and you've seen how they carry themselves and sometimes the the successful people which I do I think this is a good thing the the successful people within the company will stand up and do a talk about how they how they do the job and why they're successful.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they're sharing and giving back which I think is nice.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then just you know over the years gradually move up the leaderboard and I think within three years I was within the top three of the leaderboard um and um what is the top what does the top three look like then so if you're in the top three of Global eye how much money are you earning um four or five hundred grand a year dollars four or five hundred thousand US dollars a year tax free.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's a top good good money yeah how old so how old were you when you were earning that type of money?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 30 31 crikey so if we're going from£25000 a year did you ever imagine you'd be earning nearly half a million dollars?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Never never no no I I I remember when when I first moved to the the office and uh they they had a board there but the board was just for the Abu Dhabi team so it you know it was only say five five people and there was a guy that was at the top there and he'd had it was like September time and he had 160 written up on the board dollars 16000 I remember thinking that is an insane amount of money.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that that that's I mean which it it is it is I mean you know it's just a lot of money and um he uh I just you know I was I was just amazed that actually it is true that actually you can earn these because you never know you know the recruitment guy 100 grand a year you keep thinking you know is that true is it can I actually do that and then this guy comes in and you know I see him coming in once a week and just handing over to an admin lady some application buttons and he's got 160 grand on the button it's like actually this is real.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fair play.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh cool okay so okay sorry I interrupted you there you were sort of telling a story there.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah it it I quite quickly moved up the ranks when I started to to uh see that actually it is possible and try to look at well what is it that these guys are doing and in the with salespeople they never really want to give giveaway generally because they're so competitive they want you know to feel as though they've got uh an advantage over other people so it's very rare that people do do share um but I I quite quite quickly moved up and I we had I was fortunate that I had a um a manager after probably about probably two and a half years I had a manager that was really good at sales really good at at um having a a pitch uh which was I would say more normal than the the DeVere type of pitch um could because I I always think I'm not really a good salesperson that I come across as personable and you know sincere but if I could add a little bit of sales technique to it then maybe it's a nice formula formula to have and uh and he was quite good as a as a mentor as a as a coach and that was probably for about two years.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that then I'm I probably that I was maybe around about sixth seventh eighth in the company or something like that at the point where he started training and I went up to two or three I I never got to number one but I was two or three for a few years.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that was from that was off the back of his training so you know you're sort of explaining there really that with that training and with that development that you received that it did actually increase and and what sort of impact did that have on your I know I keep going back to earnings but we're talking about offshore financial advice here that's what you know people people want to know what the earnings are you know um what what impact did that have on your earnings then that training itself did it did it sort of in you know if you quantify that as as income what what amount did it increase it by well but that that was when it when it got up to around the say half a million dollar mark.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I was probably like say 200 ish 300 ish when I was at like between say seven eighth and ninth in the company because it falls off very I mean the the guys between you know the top guys are maybe around a million dollars uh and then it then fades away but fades away quite quickly so the top 10 guys are doing really really well probably the bottom 90 would be struggling and and that probably goes across most professions you know if you take a professional golfer and you look at you know the earnings of a professional golfer you know there'll be a million but then the the guys at the bottom are struggling to to pay the bills and it was it was the same for that so I was probably around around maybe 200 ish when I started working with the guy with with the the the manager and then it then moved up to you know three four and then I was up to maybe 500 ish before I left.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: And this was global again was it?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously you know you fantastic so a good example there that having a good sales manager in place or a good manager mentor trainer was um you know it's paramount to you becoming a success.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: What specifically though was it I know you mentioned there that you were observing and watching what the the higher earners were doing and that's I think that's what I would do personally I would just go in there I would just gravitate straight away towards the people that are earning the most money the people that are you know the most accessible and I'll just sit there I'm just sit there at the side of their desk I'd freak them out but I would be looking at them and watching them and listening to them and understanding what it is that they are doing.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be wanting some of their time I'd be like you know really really interested in them because if all that's that's all I would do.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'd just I just look at the person is doing best and try to emulate what that person's doing and put my own personal spin on it.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is that good advice for somebody going out offshore?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's a good thing to do or is it a bit cagey or people don't particularly like that type of style it's a great question and I think it depends on your ability to see people and what I mean by that is it's very easy to look at someone and say right well because you're number one you must be the best but that's not always the case and especially in our industry.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know if if you're able to look at people and say okay well um and pick snippets maybe that actually I quite like what you're doing there and the way that you carry yourself or what you're saying but I don't like the other parts I'm going to ignore that and basically pull together pieces which is what I feel as though I did pull pieces of people that I thought was important for the job important for the for the client important for me to to grow and do you know have a career and and and it'd be a healthy career.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um one thing that that you being in a big you know office in a big sales environment that there's there's a lot of testosterone around and and the guys at the top there's a a an immense amount of confidence.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is it and that's what I took from the guys at the top that they are they've got so much belief in themselves you know that when they walked into an event and there's a hundred and hundred guys in there and there's only a handful of them guys that know that the top the confidence of of them was was was incredible.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know you could you could you could feel it you could sense it and everyone was in everyone else including myself was in fear.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um so it it's I I I think the quicker that you can kind of pick the pieces up of the people around and say actually I like what they do I like the way that they might explain something I like this I like that the the better um so so yeah I I think it's good to learn but not don't follow this one person.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: But and from your experience over the last say like nine years of your career is there any special source is there any formula is there any anybody from a certain background that does well when they go out to Abadabi or offshore to become a financial planner is there any specific type of person because it's I wouldn't think no offense but your background moving over that I I you know I wouldn't think in my head oh right that's definitely a person that would do it you know I'd be thinking in my head well you know grab somebody's you know probably got a few years worth of experience at sales for example perhaps they've worked within financial planning previously and perhaps they don't particularly like working in the UK or they're quite successful in financial planning so but they're thinking about transferring their skills abroad because they want to live abroad, enjoy the sunshine and different culture, that type of thing and and try to gear towards as much transferable um obvious experience as opposed to non so not not not so obvious.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you know and um does that make sense is that kind of Yeah I I I don't I honestly don't think it matters what what you've done before um I think I think the the key ingredients and we've spoken a little bit about this that that it's um it it comes down to you as a person and and you know you need to set your stall out of is this just a a quick thing or is this a career and and then and granted I didn't know that at the at the time but I quickly learned after six nine months actually this is a this is a career.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think is it it's just the drive and and and you know want to soak up as much energy and and you know you you you're hungry for for knowledge and I think the more that you do that the quicker that you'll learn and and the more successful you'll you'll be okay fine.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: So okay cool.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: So Global eye you were you're one of the top boys there um and um that's a good question actually top boy was there any top girls or is it mainly male dominated mainly male but there were there was a couple of ladies which were in the top yeah top seven or eight yeah how how well do how well do female advisors go down in the in in the UAE because obviously culturally you know women aren't seen as equals are they is that my comment can I say that or not um I I think there's probably a a very small percentage of that being true okay um with the elder generations I think as things are becoming more cosmopolitan and international and I I think that's probably fading out.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: But but yeah I I I think as a as a female it's still equally as as fine.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean there's some situations where I think it's beneficial to be a female maybe some where it's it's not as beneficial.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: So again it's just just learning and um you know avoid if you if you're a female listener and you think about doing doing this job uh avoid doing any you know evening first meetings uh you know over dinner and a glass of wine uh because it's probably sending the wrong signals try and keep it as professional office hours as as as possible.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think but I think that'll probably apply anywhere not not specifically to the UAU no that makes sense totally um okay so yeah so top of your game there at Global eye doing really really well and then what happened uh and then a uh a gentleman that I used to work with in GlobalEye had had set up his own practice and uh approached me and said you know why don't you uh why don't you come across and set up the uh the Abu Dhabi office and build build a team build an office uh and it was quite exciting because I felt as though I was ready for a new challenge.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I kind of felt as though that with Global i things were stagnant they weren't looking for new products the the the services and things that they were offering as a company I thought were a little bit um they needed to be improved and I used to raise these concerns to uh to the owner but um you know it was something that was wasn't really taken on board so I thought okay well this is a chance for me to if I'm gonna want to up my game I can set the bar with the new with the new company and uh so then I left and and and started that so you okay so you left and then joined Arlo wealth management okay cool so you went into Arlo wealth management then when when you joined Arlo wealth management what what level did you go in at?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Were you sort of going in as a wealth manager or you know no I was run running running the office.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: You were running the office I was I was I was I was head well head of Abu Dhabi was the the title at the time head of Abu Dhabi okay cool so how many people were you did were you managing anybody when you were at Globaliye at all?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have anybody sitting underneath you at GlobalEye or no no no okay so no experience at managing so you've moved from being like a one of the top sales people what you know one of the top advisors into running a branch.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: So was the benefit of running that branch being that you had what what was it you know within you that that was you know that was exciting was it the you know tell t tell me why you decided quite well because I because it's a difficult one isn't it because in in especially in sort of sales businesses and businesses in general you tend to look at the person who's doing the most business and then you think well turn them into a manager you know and you're taking away the your best salesperson or your your best financial planner turning into a manager and expect to do a completely different job and probably expecting them to continue writing the level of business that they were writing you know and and wondering scratching your head wondering why that person probably isn't doing it.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: So what was it in you were you just have a drive to was there sort of prestige ambition around wanting to build your own business or being part of the growth of something that made you then think well I'm going to leave global eye and do that.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit yeah a little bit of of of all of that I mean it's it's I've always been someone that that um wants to try and give back if I can and and you know if I felt as though the skills that I'd developed over the the five years of of doing the job um it was nice to be able to use that and and help other people and get them to earn you know more money you know and benefit more clients along the way and and it was just a yeah a new challenge and you know a a new journey.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is it quite sort of does everybody know each other over in Abi Dhabi then When it's financial planning, you know, because um, you know, did you know the companies?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Was it was it like a selection of companies and you knew who they were and who works there and who's doing quite well?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is it quite clicky like that or not?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it for some people it can be because they want to go around and ask.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I keep myself to myself a little bit.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but yeah, they you know, people, everyone, especially um because people do move around a little bit, so they might move through companies.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there is a there is a crossover and and people do get to know each other.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there is there can be a little bat if you want, if you, you know, if you want that.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you can also keep keep yourself to yourself.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can keep yourself to yourself.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, so it's not like this kind of like collection of advisors all rolling around going to the same pubs and all that kind of stuff out there and mingling in the same places, it's not that kind of clicky typing type type flying.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, cool.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in the UK, right?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously you've never worked as a financial planner in the UK, but I'm sure you could relate to this.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if a financial advisor advisor leaves one company and joins another one, they tend to have built up a client following or client relationships, as we like to call it.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: And in the UK, there's restrictive covenants in place to stop that person from say um novating any business across, unless it's within their contract, it states that they can do that.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the way they're paid in the UK, obviously, is recurring income off of ongoing advice, but also um initial fees as well.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's built up 10 million under management and have got 100K's worth of recurring income, if they leave a role and go to another place without that contract in place allowing them to transfer agencies and across, they they can lose out on that income, or it takes a while for that income to come across.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you're earning$400,000,$500,000 a year, it must have been a concern to you that if I leave this company and join another, I'm going to forego I'm going to lose clients.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: What happened there is what's the situation around client ownership and moving different companies and and all that kind of stuff.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're self-employed, aren't you, at the end of the day?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean it is the same.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at our contracts, they all stipulate that you can't purge clients.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: The clients belong to the company, not not to to ourselves.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Excuse me.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I I knew, I mean, I had a hundred hundred plus clients at that point, and I had a great relationship with with all of them.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I really tried my best to look after every single one of them.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that when I left, that ultimately the choices in the client, you know, and the client would say, actually, I don't I wasn't with Global Eye because of Global Eye, with Global Eye because of James.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to move to where he's gone.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: And spoke to most of them, if not, yeah, probably 70% of them before I decided to leave.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: And they and explained to them, look, if I was to leave, would you come with me?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: So then it was just a case of uh the client saying, Look, because they would get a call immediately.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: The moment I had him on my notice, they get a call immediately.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: James has left, blah, blah, blah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they try their their hardest, which is natural, to um put a put a bit of gray, grey light on on me as an individual and say, look, stay with us because we're you know this.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if you move with James, then you know you might not get as good a service.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew that the clients would move, move with me, and and everybody apart from one moved across.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there is the vote.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really strong relationships with your clients.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, the again, the perception of of offshore is that you kind of do a deal and kick the can kick kick the client out the door and you never see him again.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, is relationship building massively important over there as well?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everything, it's everything.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and if if if you're not, if you don't want to build the these relationships with the client, don't don't do the job because you're just gonna be in and out within it within a year.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the the client is is the only ingredient really that is going to give you the ability to to grow your business.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the more that you think about them and the more that you care about them and you try to do the right thing, the more that down the line that's gonna come back and reward you.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, interesting.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um, do you generate a lot of your clients via existing client relationships?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: So is it a referral type type business yours, or is it all all kind of new, do you are you constantly going out and finding new clients, or is it referrals?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is that a big big part of the growth of your business?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I mean the first the first probably two years, the majority of any new business, I would say 90% of the new business was from from cold calling.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um especially you know the first year.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: In the last I would say five years, I I don't do anything to do with cold calling.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: My business has only grown from pure purely referrals.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's proved I've never I've never even spoken to anybody that's a cold lead.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's and and that goes back to what I was saying before, but you know, that the the better that you served clients, the better that you look after them and you make them feel like actually James is the guy.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, he he genuinely cares about me, the more likelihood you will have of getting refills and growing your business.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot of wealth in Abi Dhabi, isn't there?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of very wealthy people.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the typical clients that you deal with are you know, are they considered to be high net worth, high earning type clients?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the ones that you deal with, or is it or would you deal with any type of client?
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and any because if if if let's say that I've been looking after you, Sam, for three years, and you say, look, one of my one of my best friends is a is a butcher, you know, he's he's he's a really good guy, he just he might have had a bad experience in the past, or he wants someone.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say, look, Sam, unfortunately, because he doesn't earn this figure, I'm not gonna look after him.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just completely um you know, cutting off the relationship.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've trusted me enough to look after him.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I I don't, you know, I don't have any minimums and things, you know, as long as somebody has the ability to be a client, you know, and you know, sometimes I'll go and sit with somebody who's in debt and you can't do anything for them, but you know, you still call up the person that's introduced me and say thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to help them.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: So just run through the different types of products then, or the different types of services that you offer as a financial planner.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: So anything from savings, investments, protection.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, I expand things out and will help people with, you know, I feel as though now I've got the experience to be able to help people with businesses and setting things up.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um but properties, businesses, uh savings, investments, um you know, bank accounts.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, we I think we have a a wider range of of uh advice angles, not necessarily products, but advice angles to be able to sit down and discuss with with clients.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: You do a bit of a when you're offshore.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or when you're typically now you know what's becoming more popular at the moment is uh sometimes my financial advisors are uh getting people passports.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you've got an Egyptian person that wants an American or Canadian Canadian passport, there's ways of which have improving their status and citizenship.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that can be something, for example, that we can do.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something that I've I've done.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but it's something that advisors are doing now.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: So in the UK, then if a financial advisor gives advice and um that managed advice is deemed to be bad financial advice, it can come and bite them in the arse.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, a lot of them have to have PI cover in place just in case the advice they give is wrong.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: And in the UK, that PI cover, you know, is going up and up and up and up.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: The cost of it is becoming very, very expensive.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: What you know, what's it like off offshore then?
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you you know, do you pay PI cover?
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Are you liable for any of the advice that you give?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, do you have many, you know, is there you know, like the FCA over here, are complaints upheld out there?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: How what happens?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, throughout your nine years, you must have come across some people that have not been happy with advice that you've given or happy with the advice of the Globali.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: What you know, and that's a bit, again, that's a bit of a horror story or a bad image that offshore financial advice has is that you know it's all a bit unregulated, it's all a bit dodgy, you know, and um people's money's not protected.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: And evidently that's been evident, you know, that that has come out.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: How do you position yourself as an advisor around that?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what's your views on that?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean it's it's easy.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna do the job correctly, it's easy to to go up against that because you know, you can if you're doing the job correctly, you sound like a sore thumb.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that if you come across genuine and honest, uh, you know, it's it's it's quite nice to be able that the competition is so bad that you know you you can really stand out in in the crowd.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in in terms of the protection, so that they have an insurance authority regulation, which is the equivalent of FCA uh in the UK.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they're not as active as the FCA, but there are still a governing body that you can go to to make complaints and if somebody's been missled or given incorrect advice.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have known them uh you know act upon uh the the victim or the person that's received it and deal with it proportionally.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know some people that have received the money back uh that they've invested.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes the company, if the advisor, I've heard before, it wasn't the company that we we work with, but different companies where uh the advisor just completely frauded the client.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was obvious it was a fraud, they've been sacked, and the company gave back the client the money.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can that person face can that person face prison?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can you get a prison for the for the for the for the advice that they've given?
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: And is does that happen?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean that that that the criminal law areas in the UAE are different to the to the UK.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, potentially the they could.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I've never heard of anyone going to prison like in the UK and the US.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but certainly deported and you know, um so it is it is, you know, let's not beat it around the bush, it is quite loose out there then.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is quite, you know, dare I say a little bit wild west.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't really say that because it's you know it's a it's an industry out there that's driving you doing incredibly well out there, but there is a feel of it being a bit wild west in the sense that there isn't, you know, there isn't the regulation or the legislation, etc., that you see in the US or the UK, you know, it is a bit looser.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a little bit more, I guess there's a and that's why there is as well a bit more opportunity out there for people, you know, and there is still law, there is still things you have to do.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can't go out there and be an absolute crook, but there are people out there who are crooks.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, if you're a good financial advisor and you have good practice, you stand out like a sore thumb because you're doing the right thing by the client.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess good news travels fast, and that's where you generate your new referrals from as well, you know?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: What about things like cash flow modelling and and all you know, lifestyle financial planning?
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: This whole kind of approach in the UK that we're seeing now.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is that something that you guys do out there as well?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or or is it not so much?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, you know, here's a you know, life cover, here you go.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you a life cover, or here's an investment opportunity, I'll give you that.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are you planning for futures, pensions, and all that kind of stuff as well?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: This comes down to the individual.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: So this is an area that I, you know, I I have been working with a a coach for a couple of years now, uh, and we've been putting together different structures to to really benefit the client, and and uh everything is geared around the client.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: But traditionally, from the company, you know, you'll have a fact find that might be say six, seven pages long that you go through and you have to justify.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it isn't it isn't really that that that side of it and and the the fact-finding process and learning what's important to the client, I think, is what falls down in the UAE compared to the UK.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this is where I wanted to try and major on myself because I knew that that's you know, it's it's the it's it's the important part, not because of a regulation point of view, it's put in place because it protects me as an advisor, uh, but also it it helps building the relationship and understanding the client.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: The more you understand the client, the more you can provide solutions for them.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, it's something that something that you're working on as well, trying to make a better experience with that client um and um planning basically, proper financial planning for them, as instead of product sales, you know, and that's something that that I suppose in the is starting to come over there um now, and that's something that you're interested in in doing.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: Fabulous.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're so Arlo Wealth Management then, so let's just go back to that then.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: So joined Arlo Wealth Management, you're running the Abu Dhabi branch, and you've been doing that for how long now?
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh five, five years.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: Five years.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great stuff.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: And what benefit did that have for you then, moving from Globali, where really kind of you know you were a cog in the wheel, I guess, you were one of many, to then going off and setting up the Abu Dhabi branch of Arlo Wealth and running that Abu Dhabi branch.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: What what what did that give you um in benefits over being a cog in the wheel at uh I shouldn't say cog in the wheel, not if anybody's working at the moment, you're not cog in the wheels, but you know what I mean.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think just a different perspective.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's always good to to have new challenges, new changes, and and you know, get your brain thinking in a different way.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I I've learned more about you know, probably myself and the job and what's what's crucial and what's not crucial, and and you know, from from um, you know, they always say that you learn your most when you're outside your comfort zone, and I've been more out of my comfort zone in especially in the first two, three years of moving uh from the company.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so yeah, I I I I think that it's always good to could keep could keep challenging yourself and and develop and and grow.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: And are you are you building a team at the moment?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got a team of people there?
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are you building it?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got aspirations to build?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's going on with the growth?
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean that we we got up to about 15 guys at one point.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the owner of of Arlo really wanted us to to grow.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we got up to it was a team of maybe not 15, maybe maybe 12, 13 guys.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they were the wrong, wrong type of guys that we're so we kind of then stepped off that a little bit, uh, because there was a big push to grow, and of course, when when we're again growing and building, our income then drops.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I kind of stepped away from that and just focused on on myself.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I think I'm at the point now where it'd be nice to to go back into building again and passing on, but doing it correctly.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: Doing it correctly.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: Not just because somebody at the top of the company says, you know, bums on seats, get some guys in, you know, finding the right people, the right type of of guys and growing it correctly.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, based on your experience of being, you know, wet behind ears, joining joining Globali and going in at the very bottom level, you know how difficult it is to become a an international financial planner.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, clients don't grow on trees and it takes you know, blood, sweat and determination and some drive and the ability to not give up.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: So what you you've seen that already, and I suppose you learn from your mistakes.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want 10 people in a, you know, that might not have that drive, if you like, because you're just you're just gonna hemorrhage money.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: I assume that, especially now as well, because people aren't really willing to work on a self-employed basis as they were like nine years ago.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: People now, especially younger guys, do want to have that security of a basic salary.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna be paying out a load of money for basic salaries.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it could lead to becoming like a self-employed advisor and a pure commission once you start to see the income coming in.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: But there is an expense, isn't there?
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're bringing people in on those salaries, it's eating into your profits and all of a sudden, and your time and energy as well, and you ain't going nowhere and you've experienced that.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's about using your past, previous experience of what you went through to make sure that someone has the you know the right, the right start, really.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got a sort of plan of action around that?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: So to grow your business, because obviously you're doing very well, you know.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: I assume moving from Globali to Arlo Wealth Management, you've increased your overall client base and and and referral network.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Has that gone up?
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, significantly, yeah.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you you, where you are, have opportunity then with clients where you need advisors to come in and start working with those existing clients, I would say.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's getting to that point now where you know, either from a uh a support process and and someone comes in and they'll you know come in as as a as an advisor within my my clients, or you know, potentially they will they'll build their own and and and grow and and have and be their own, you know, IFA.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: Just talk me through then your client acquisitions.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone comes and joins you then, you know, talk me through the options of what you think are the best ways to go out and win clients over in Abby Dabby.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that's the million dollar million dollar question.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I I think it's a combination of everything.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's one one tactic that works.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just doing everything and giving everything 100%.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, from from being on the ground and saying, right, I'm here, I've got my briefcase, you know, I've I've got an understanding of of the products and a and a pitch.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not really into a pitch too much, I think a pitch that works for them and matches their personality.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and then they're gonna have to do a little bit of cold calling, a little bit of networking.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they'll get fortunate that you know, if they come with me, maybe I can hand over some clients.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just the case of they have to give first and give their time, give their effort, give their support, and wait, you know, and this is where the kind of six months, 12 months comes in, wait for it to come back.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: If they try to force it and say, Well, I haven't made a sale this week in my first week, I'm going home, well then you know, it wasn't the right, wasn't the right uh job.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just doing doing every everything they can to improve so basically proactive.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, it's it's an action job, it's not sitting back and theory, you know, being a theorist and reflecting and all of that.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're not putting action in and effort in, you're not gonna get something back, you know.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: The more you do, the more you get back.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you're sort of saying?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um and just and try and try and find ways to to help people, you know.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, try and just talk to people, and it could be anything about finance.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it was areas where I ended up going to people's houses at weekends and helping them look at a remortgage because I had an understanding, I've done properties from for many years, I had an understanding that was just a good place to start, you know.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and if you go and do a hundred nice things for people, even though you know you're never gonna get anything out of it initially, something good will come from that in the end.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think just getting yourself out there and saying, look, it doesn't have to be that if I'm gonna go and do this for you, I have to get something right now.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: Just doing everything you can to get your name out there, that you're a good guy, you're supportive, you're trying to help people and good things will come back to you.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to um you know, making your money, earning your income out there, it's a combination of commission, isn't it?
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: A combination of commission.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: And there is like like recurring income out there as well.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is that is that right on products?
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you can you can get paid like a monthly or yearly recurring income.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is that is that correct?
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in the same way as as the UK.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you have your your assets under management, which you'll have a fee structure on.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll have the fee structure.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: And does a client pay you that directly or does it come off the underlying assets?
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh either you could you could structure, I mean 99% of it comes from uh the product, but it's all transparent in the same way as the UK.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got a 1% fee on that'll be taken uh well per quarter uh for the management of that, and everything's done, you know.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: Some of our products now are becoming a UK uh FCA regulated product.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: So and it's becoming more and more like that now.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's coming in a very transparent way, and um, you know, in in the in the UK structure.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: What's the biggest change that's happening over there at the moment that could affect your job or affect the industry?
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: The upfront commissions, so they they are they well, it was supposed to happen on the I think 15th of April.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and now they've they've pushed it back because of coronavirus, it's pushed it back until September, October.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but the the the way in which we got paid, so you'd receive on you know month one, you'd get all of the the commission for the product.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're now halving that.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll get half of the money, and then the remaining half given to you over the term of the policy.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's that's pretty straightforward.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's making some changes there.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is that worrying anybody, do you think?
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh it's worrying the the people that are not doing the job correctly, yeah.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it now means that they have to do a proper job to get all of the money.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: They've got to look after that client for the the years that they've they've set them up for to get the the full money, um, which is a good thing.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's good that it's worrying them.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it it it it might worry people that are looking to come out there and you know.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say that you know, like for me, that time when I got that eight grand, seven grand in the first month, that helped me get through the next few months.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if that was now, I'd probably only get three and a half, four grand.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you probably just need to maybe have a little bit more savings behind you if you're gonna go out there, because you're not gonna get the initial inflow of cash in the first.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: Once you've done like one, two years, you're fine because you've then got the the ongoing money coming in.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it might be a little bit tougher financially in the in the starting point because you're not gonna get the full hundred percent injection of the commission, you're only gonna get half.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: So advice to somebody going out there really be aware that you might not earn as much as you you could have done within the first, say, three to six months when you really, really need it.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: Ensure that you've got a financial cushion for yourself and make sure you're not overspending when you're going out there and you treat it as a job and not a holiday.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um because you you potentially can't earn as much as you possibly could before.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and it's gonna be tough during that period as well, isn't it?
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there are changes that are happening that are gonna obviously impact the industry in a really positive way over there.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what's what's needed, isn't it?
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: A kind of absolute RDR type setup over there, you know, where it's gonna it's gonna separate these cowboys that I was talking about earlier and leave it to the guys that are doing a really good, honest job and um providing advice in the right way and they're not just after the almighty dollar.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's obviously loads of opportunity out in Abu Dhabi, and um you've also you know you've turned your hand to other things as well, haven't you?
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: So what what what else have you done whilst you've been out there?
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: So a couple of years ago, I uh I set up a uh medical insurance business, uh, which you know just came by doing the job and learning and growing.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the nice things out there.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: You you have more opportunities that come to you and present themselves to you, uh, which has been a nice secondary part of an income.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, been able to pass on the the, if you can call it sales skills that I developed over the years and use it in a similar industry, but not the same.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: So medical insurance out there is mandatory by law, so they have to have it.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh so I've I've built a team of of people, uh, sales and admin support around that, and I've tried to use the service that because that's that's in a similar type of way, that it has a gets a bit of bad press, and there's people miss selling a little bit.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, do you know what this is this is quite nice because the years of experience and service that I've been giving clients and I know that they're happy with it, I can now pull that into the medical insurance business and grow something there that runs alongside, and they kind of complement each other in the in the same way.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's that that's been nice to be able to do.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_01: But a bit of diversification as well for for you and different income streams.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um great stuff.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you're 27 years old, having a punt going out to live with your mate over in Abid Abbey, earning 20 25,000 pounds a year, nine years later.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it safe to say you're earning seven figures?
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, come yeah.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and and it will it will continue to grow because of the hard work that's put in.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's only snowballing year on year.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, after nine years, it's uh it's gone to be seven figures and it it will continue to grow.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: So there is, you know, streets paved with gold over there.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: There is opportunity.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can earn money over in Abu Dhabi in the UAE offshore.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can't speak of any other countries out there, but you're proven experience there, and you know, you're you're somebody that's done it and is doing it, and it's continuing.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you're my age, aren't you?
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: How old are you?
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: 38.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: 37.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: 37.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 37.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm 38.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you're going into your 40s and then, you know, seven-figure salary, businesses that you're looking to grow, you're looking to grow your your financial planning side of it.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's regulation that's coming in, it's going to make it better suited to the type of person that you are, and the type of person that you want to grow a business, you know, how you want to grow your business for your clients.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's huge opportunity.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's thinking about coming over to the UAE or, you know, Abu Dhabi, what culturally, what is it a bit of a shock to the system?
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is it, you know, is it a good place to live?
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I had a quick search, you know, when you started telling me how much money you're earning, I was like, well, I can have a look at this.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't, it it didn't, it I don't know, there was it's it's a city, isn't it, essentially?
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Abby Dabi, it's a big, big old city.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is there a lot of opportunity?
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is there fun things to do there culturally?
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is it, you know, do I would would I, you know, is it very different from the UK?
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I assume it is, you know.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it was to the countryside, yes.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: If it's say, you know, if you get used to a London lifestyle, um, then it's probably gonna be more similar.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's an incredible place.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I've done you know nine years, and I and I I've been been in I'm in the UK now as we're recording this, and I'm locked down here because everything's shut down with flights.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: But whilst it's been nice to be here for seven, eight weeks in the countryside of things, um, I do miss Abadeli.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I cast that as home and it it is a it's an incredible, incredible place.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's to be able to go into a restaurant, and if you need to go to the bathroom, you know that you can leave your phone and your wallet on the side, go to the bathroom for five minutes and come back, and no one's even considered touching it.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, is amazing.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: The safety is amazing.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um the opportunity, nobody is really trying to everyone's really supportive and helpful.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, schools are great, the weather, ten months of the year is amazing.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it is it is, it is, it is the the the and it's becoming more and more westernized.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I when I went out there nine years ago, there was and it was the first Christmas, there was never a Christmas song, there was never any Christmas uh, you know, decorations or anything.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now you walk into the moors in you know November, everything's Christmassy and you know it's it's it's changing a lot and becoming more westernized, but it's uh it is it is an amazing place to to to live and to work.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: What about the cost of living then?
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you're earning a seven-figure salary, fantastic, but what happens if you're not?
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how much does it cost for the usual things, you know, like a pint of beer or uh you know a night out for some dinner or something like that?
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's probably double the cost.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: It is it is it is expensive uh because generally everybody earns you know more money there.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the average salary there for uh say an expat might be eight, ten thousand pounds uh a month.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, tax-free.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it it is there's more money to to move around and you know, food and waiters and you know, uh it's probably two, two and a half times the price of of cost of living, I would say.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that that is something to bear bear in mind.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Also, what are you you know, you're quite you you come a strike me as quite a calm, collect guy, you know.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the type of job that you do, I can imagine, can be really stressful at times.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is it quite stressful?
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And still stressful and still frustrating.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and and I think as as we grow as a person, I think, you know, the the the more successful you are, the bigger the problems that that you will have.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you look at say Elon Musk's problems that he has today will be very very significant compared to the problems that that I'm having.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I think it's good to to I see problems as a challenge, you know, and and okay, well, this has happened, it's not great, then how do I how do I overcome it?
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: What solutions have I got?
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you have that mindset, you know, you don't really get stressful.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess sorry.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was just gonna say that, you know, if if you you get a lot of stress derives from you know um maybe not having any money, and if you've got savings behind you, you can solve a lot of problems with with money.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that sounds you know probably not great, but they always say if you write a check, you can solve a problem.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if you do have some savings and you build it up, you can take away not everything, but you can take away or reduce uh you know a lot of issues, you know, having admin support and people around you that can deal with these things where you don't have to deal with them all yourself, which is a nice position to be in.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I think the security instinct anyway within us is is certainly one that raises its head a lot, isn't it?
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we'll you know we're built to want to find shelter, food, security.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if we can't see that we have that security, it sends us into an absolute fear cycle.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think um as much as probably, you know, we should more money doesn't make you happy.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think it I think it can.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it can absolutely contribute to looking after your security instincts.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's it's one less thing to to worry about.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you tell somebody that money can't make you happy, you tell that to somebody now who's lost their job during the during this period in COVID-19 and they haven't got a job, perhaps they haven't got any income coming in, you know, they're worried about the bills, they're worried about their mortgage, and it's like, yes, money does make you feel more secure.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm lucky that I'm in a position where I I'm not having to be worried about money.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a business owner, don't get me wrong, a recruitment company within financial planning during this period that is perm-based.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't have any recurring income or anything like that, you know, and I've got a furlough staff and their worries and their concerns and everything, but we're lucky that we might we should hopefully you know get through this no problem at all.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some people haven't, have they?
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and that's the bit that money does make a difference.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, if you can earn really, really good money, um it's got to have a positive impact on your life, it just has to have it, as long as you're not getting you know crazy with, you know, I can imagine some people go out there, stick alphabet up their nose, go out and drinking all the time, uh, buying crap, you know, and come back absolutely destroyed, you know.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're that type of person, unfortunately, you're gonna do it.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not in check in in in line with your values, um, and you're living an honest life, if you like, you're gonna have those troubles and those problems, aren't you?
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_01: If if you're given a load of money.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine like I imagine a few people have gone out there and I could see in your recruitment, you get guys like, you know, never earned money like that before, they're 21 years old, and all of a sudden they're only 80 grand a year, you know, and they're just smashing themselves apart.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's it's normal, I suppose it's kind of normal, but it's um but it you know keeping yourself.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you're using the money in that way and it's to buy material things, then it's probably not it might make you happy for uh you know uh a millisecond, but then the long term of that is is is definitely not.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: But if you use it in the correct way and you use it for support, you know, if you're able to, for example, uh get somebody else to to to do your admin work or something so that you can go and pick your your children up from school, that is would be, you know, everyone would say, well, that money has been able to give me you know more happiness and time to be able to spend with my family.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's where things, if you use it correctly, it it can it can serve a really good purpose.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you going?
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_01: What is the next three because you've got incredible 10 years, right?
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So where's the next five years going?
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you see yourself by the age of say 45?
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like in your head?
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh to continue doing what I'm doing and and you know, try to to branch out a little bit.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean, I'm I'm trying to, and we've been been chatting about this, you know, maybe grow a team of people around me and and pass on this experience that that I've got and build build in that particular way in the IFA side.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um still continue with the medical insurance business because I'm I'm really liking that how that's progressing, and I've got some good guys within that.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and look at some other opportunities.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I've always had a uh a passion around you know hotels and things, and one of my goals this year was to look to set up a little boutique hotel somewhere in Europe.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably not not a good time at the moment, uh, but just you know, expand out and doesn't have to be within the financial uh industry side, but just grow.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's one of the nice things of uh of of being uh doing an IFA, you are effectively a business owner, and the skill set that you have to develop to become successful at that is skills that you can cross over in other industries, you're not just limited to financial advisory, you know, it's nice to to build different income streams, and I think that that you know you can uh you can grow into different areas, which is nice.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Fabulous.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So lots of new quite you're quite an entrepreneur then as well, aren't you?
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Deep down.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Did you did you always think you were an entrepreneur?
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're obviously setting up different businesses here and there.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just is that again, money's just created that opportunity, and you're just being bit, you know, you're looking at how you can diversify and make more money, or is it you've got a passion for seeing things grow, or what what's no?
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I don't think it's money that drives it because you know, if people have got money in the account, I think the natural thing is people go, Well, what can I go and buy?
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't have a flash car or anything now.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's there's people that will go and spend that on and things like that.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And and for me, you know, you you when you get into um deep conversations with with clients, and you know, we've had some really nice chats over the past couple of weeks and opportunities, you know, you you you you're always working on your your your brain, you know, your skill set.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I always use this analogy when I'm talking about business and things with friends, you know, if you look at someone say Alan Sugar or Richard Branson, if they lost all of their money tomorrow and they had to start again from absolute zero, within a year they would be a multimillionaire because they haven't lost the the skill set, the drive, the the level of education that it takes to do something.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like with where I'm at now, and of course, I'm not even a patch on them guys, but just in terms of where my mind is now to where it was, you know, nine, ten years ago is very, very different.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm having conversations with people around me that might have a business, might have an idea, I would never have picked up on that in the past.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_00: But now I'm I'm tuned into okay, well, actually that's quite nice.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Sam's passion is this and he really likes this, and his skill set is really good at this.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't we have a chat one day?
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's where I think you get to that you just develop your, yeah, which is which it don't necessarily think it's just because of me.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the job.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the job.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_00: You become a bit more intuitive and aware.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I suppose as well, when you again when you go back to your security instincts being met, you don't, you're not being driven by something which is desperate.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you have that ability to step back and pause and um evaluate, don't you, and um and not act off of those prime or primeval instincts, you know, that drive you to do things off you know, off the cuff.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're thinking about things, you're seeing the opportunities.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think that's a real that that that in itself is a real positive, isn't it?
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's why you can diversify, that's why you can see other opportunities.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's cool.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so um listen, uh, thanks very much for um sort of spent spending some time with me uh this morning on Bank Holiday Friday.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe I'm working Bank Holiday Friday.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's classic lockdown, you know, got no idea or no concept of days.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, you know, thanks so much for your time today.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've you know, I've learned a lot.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really great for to be able to interview someone and shine a light on what it's like to work off offshore because as I said previously, you know, throughout my 11 and a half years, you know, the few, you know, I've spoken to people here and there, and there's there can tend to be quite neg a lot of negativity around working offshore.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and right and and and rightfully so in some respects, you know, not everybody makes it out here, but it's great to, you know, it's great to speak to somebody who has, and it's great to somebody who's got really you know strong ethics and a good work ethic, and uh, you know, somebody who's who's ethical basically around what they do and wants to continue growing a financial planning business, but in the right way.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that, you know, and thanks for sharing you know all you've learned when you've been out there as well out in you know out there in the in the UAU as well.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'll certainly continue, thank you.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll certainly certainly continue talking to you.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna do a follow-up podcast as well, where we're gonna talk a little bit about the growth of your business and how you know what it's like, what we wanna, you know, the types of people that we want to attract to you to to to come and join with join you, for example.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are areas that we're gonna share, and um there'll be a nice little follow-up to this.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and if anybody's interested in working, you know, um offshore and you know, get in contact with me now.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, certainly I'm sure you'll be happy enough to share your experiences, wouldn't you, James?
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Top man.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, great stuff.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for your time today.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um I'll catch up again.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the rest of the day.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_01: See you later.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye.