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Jon Hacker Explains How to Reset Your Nervous System with ZenBud · Age Defiantly with Mark Young

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This stress that we feel we often misconstrued as being an emotional issue, when in fact,
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our emotions in our psychology are actually being hijacked by our physiology.
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75% of people actually claim that stress causes physical debilitation in their lives.
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It becomes this loop where your physiology is not taken care of and so your psychology
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suffers because your psychology suffers. You stop taking care of your physiology even more.
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How does that affect longevity and the aging process? Well, because it's...
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We're back on the Age Definely Podcast and I am joined today by my friend John Hacker to talk
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about a topic that is particularly dear to my heart and that is nervous system regulation.
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And that of course sounds like a really weird topic to be close to my heart. But if you are a person
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who lives in your sympathetic nervous system as I am prone to do, you will understand why this is
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important to me and should be more important to you. John Hacker comes to us. He is the CEO and
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founder of a company called Nurgier, the makers of the Zenbud. And as we're recording this,
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they have a new product actually coming out soon. So I'll be interested in seeing everybody's
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reaction to that. But you're stuck in this conversation. Most people know that they're stressed,
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right? What is the number? Around 75% of people actually claim that stress causes physical
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debilitation in their lives. And John is joining us today to talk about how this stress that we feel
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we often misconstrued as being an emotional issue or a psychological issue. When in fact,
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our emotions in our psychology are actually being hijacked by our physiology. And if we start
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at the physiological side of stress, all of the emotional and psychological impact starts the
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melt away. So I want to introduce you once again on the age of the finally podcast to my friend
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John Hacker. I'm very happy to be back. What's the pleasure to have you here, John? I mean, like
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and I think you put it very elegantly. Like you can't think your way out of some of these,
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I like to call them reality filters in the end. And you'll notice this, like anyone that's been
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in one of these places where their body is not cooperating, whether it's a nervous system or
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just general health, everything starts to seem worse. Like, for example, I've had his life
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where I'm overweight. And I still have some weight as the one you lose, right? When you have that
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drag on your physiology, your psychology suffers too. Yeah. Like things that would usually be
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simple, right? Things that you usually would never stress about. You suddenly start stressing
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about that. And when you start stressing about them, that suddenly puts you in a place where
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you're going to introduce yourself to more things that you might stress without. And it becomes
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this loop where your physiology is not taken care of. And so your psychology suffers because your
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psychology suffers. You stop taking care of your physiology even more. And back and forth and
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back and forth. Because as you're buying suffers, so does your body. And as your body suffers, so does
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your mind. So one of the one of the things that that I find myself talking a lot about is I call
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myself a contrarian in general. But it doesn't necessarily matter what anybody says. I'll find the
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counterpoint just to find out. And then it'll do it. I don't mean to. But it's the way my brain
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works. Like I'm always looking for the loophole. I'm always looking for the exit.
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Well, that's part of why you're successful in business, too, Mark. Possibly because I'd
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be able to see things that maybe someone else doesn't. Pattern areas are important in doing anything
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that's meaningful. So it's not to say that that's always a bad thing to do. Well, no, I agree with
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you. And what I say in this, I'll be about it because there is a mayor. Yeah.
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Well, what I say in this context, what I mean is I say that I try to live at the intersection
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between my body and the spirit. And that is for me, we are essentially one, but we are also
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disconnected parts like the three legs of that stool. It all have to be the same height. They all
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need the equal amount of equal length in order to actually sit and be balanced.
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So when I say contrarian, what I mean is like often people will come to me and say,
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oh, I'm experiencing these physical issues. What is it that I need to do about it? And it's
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funny because most of the time my response is nothing to do with the physical symptom.
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Yes. Because people are like, oh, my knee hurts. I'm like, oh, that's really interesting. I was
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your sleep that. And normally they're like, why would you ask me such a disconnected question,
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but it's all connected, right? And I always think about even the chiropractor that I go to and I
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was having really bad neck issues and shoulder issues on my right side. And as soon as I got to
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the office and did thing, he immediately started work on my left hip. Yeah. And it was funny because
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I was just like, well, no, the pain's up here. And he's like, yeah, I know the pain up there is
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because you got problem down here. And it's often missing at her upstream. But when I see what
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you're doing with nervous system regulation, I kind of want to get into the story that even
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led you in this direction. Yeah. Because I think I'll get there. Okay. But one of the
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one of the things that I want to discuss here and that is the conversations that you've had
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you and I've had in the past is related to how you were dealing with stress. And as I mentioned,
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even in introduction, 75% roughly of people are having physical responses and finding life even
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being debilitated based on stress. And it's everything from sleep patterns to weight gain to
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anxiety and all of this kind of stuff. Three quarters of the population is having this problem.
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Like that's a real pandemic to me. And when we actually went through a real pandemic through
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COVID, like it made it worse. Oh, terribly worse. And you were in part one of those generations,
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I would say that was affected most by the pandemic. It's like, did it actually have a high school
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prop or high school graduation because it was in the pandemic. Yeah. I'm a young guy this guy.
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I'm a young guy. I start on this journey very young because it's something that's always been
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very passionate to me. And I was I was not a fun kid to hang around. They're like, unless you
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were a bird because I was constantly researching this stuff, even like when it was back 1112. And
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I can't say that that didn't affect me. I can't say they didn't affect the friends of my peers.
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Like there has been my generation was shortchanged in a pretty major way when it came to developing
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social acumen. And having those social connections with that social network is so important.
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Because that's we're we're tribal creatures. We need to have groups to stay healthy. And when we
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don't, our nervous systems start to get kind of fun. And we have restarted relying on the social
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media and that were some platforms to try to get back a little bit of that. And this just
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exacerbated their adoption more than anything else. But it's not something that our brains are
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adapted to realistically. They you maladapt to it. They don't really adapt well to it. And
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then where I'm going with some of that. Yes. I grew up like your generation. I mean, you're young.
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You're in your 20s and yes. And when I think about my wife and what it was like in my mid 20s,
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like I'm over twice you were age. And gosh, that's crazy. Think about that. Yes. Yes.
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We're age. But it's like, I think of what life was like for me in my mid 20s. And it's like,
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it's nothing like it is for you guys today. But yeah. What I what I do reason I want to get in
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there is this integration piece, though. And that is kind of where we're talking about stress.
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We're talking about psychological and emotional impairments and stuff that people are having. And
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this anxiety ridden generation that is just it's everywhere, right? Everybody and their
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brother talks about how they have anxiety and sleep has now become this big conversation. But
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the way that you put it in the in the in the Zen bud world and the nervous system support
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evil is that this really isn't even a psychological or emotional physiological problem. It is driven
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by psychological trends. So, but in the end, your hardware has adapted to your environment.
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We are adaption machines. That's what we are. We adapt to the environment for ourselves. And
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we are now in an environment for time where we were completely socially isolated. And then we got
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all our social input from these screens and these short form content, which are made to be engaging.
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Okay, let's not demonize them. This is a product that they're selling that's meant to be engaging.
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And the ones that weren't engaging fell off and didn't succeed. And the ones that are engaging
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succeeded. But the consequence of that is now that you have all your social order actually coming
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from this engaging platform and your brain and nervous system has adapted to that. It's a dependency.
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The same way as any other dependency. Like if you love caffeine, you grow dependent on it.
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That's a dependency. And there's you could use a lot harder drugs for that example, too.
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Like I'll say the same thing about sugar during stuff. But when your body is adapted to this constant
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short form, go, go, go, dopamine rush environment for your social contact, it's really difficult
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to leave that environment. And you'll always always want to stay there and you get almost
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addicted to this constant loop and cycle of sympathetic engagement, sympathetic being your
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fire flight response or high response, which part of the reason why I always am a little bit
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part of the reason why I have deep concerns with our social media platforms is our training
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our nervous systems to be highly responsive. And when you have a highly responsive nervous system,
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you end up stressing about things that are decently low stimuli. So, okay, your friends,
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10 minutes late and you wanted to chat with them or play a game with them. That's not the end of
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the world. But if your nervous system is now adapted, certainly that means that they hate you.
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It's because they personally hate you specifically. You're the reason why they're not there.
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You're the reason XYZ and it's a really terrible reality filter. And what everything we're
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doing at ZenBud is trying to get people back control of their reality filter so that that is
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not a big deal because in reality it doesn't. All we are is a little blue speck in the universe,
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like nothing that you could possibly go through in the long in the scheme of things is anything
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compared to the movements of the planets in the universe in the solar systems. And yet it seems
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so big because it is big toss. Right. And I mean out of the fact that I'm a blue speck in a
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great big universe doesn't make me feel any better when I'm struggling to either end or yeah,
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it doesn't all of the other situations. The connection I want you to make here for us, though,
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is that you mentioned the sympathetic nervous system. And you want to talk about the autonomic
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nervous system in general for PBO may or may not understand that. That is sympathetic nervous
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system is the fighter flight high performance. As you said, and then our parasympathetic is our
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rest and digest, right? It's the everything is calm. I'm safe. And I always use this example, like,
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you know, talk about prehistoric man, you know, everything is fine. I'm walking. Oh, there's a lion.
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He's coming to eat me sympathetic trigger makes a sense because now we need to run as fast as I
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can to get away from the prey or the predator. It as soon as that threat is gone, I'm able to get
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back into my, you know, gathering mode where now I don't need to worry about that. Everything goes
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back to normal. And part of the symptoms that that happen when we stay in this fighter flight mode
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too long, like we're we're spending 23 hours a day where the body's just like I need to wear
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itself out very frankly. Well, and I I prefer to is bandwidth. It's Wi-Fi signal in some respects.
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Like your body only has so much energy that it can yell this over the course of the day.
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And when that's taking place, when I'm in fighter flight, all of that energy is going towards
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staying alive. And the other systems in the body get neglected. So that by chance it says,
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yeah, cause like, you don't need to digest food. If you're about to get eaten by a tiger,
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you'd rather your muscles corrupt work a little bit better. She can roll a little bit of five
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pounds and things like digestion, things like sleep, things like sexual house. All of these
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hormonal imbalances, like all of this stuff shuts down because the body's like, we have more
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important things to do right now just to stay alive. Yes. I actually like, um, I'm my own
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terminology for a fire flight and some digest responses because I think it doesn't. It kind of gets
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the plan across to folks, but I always like to call them survival recover, right? Because
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in survival response, it can be fire flight. It could also be freeze. It can be fun. It can be
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anything. There's a ton in different ways that your fighter flight system can react. And so it's
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just anything. It's just any survival response, right? It's any any moment. If I don't do this now,
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I will die. That's what your body's telling itself. Um, when your system is in the state and
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you're doing that all the time, it's kind of like if you're running your revving your engine
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while parked, right? Like, it's not great for your car and you're going to slowly wear it out.
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And on the recover side, if you can enter that state and you should be in that state for let's
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say 70, 80% of the time, right? Fighter, because think about it like again, like hunter-gatherer
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scenario, right? We are endurance creatures. FYI, we're meant to be endurance hunters. And so
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sometimes even while you're hunting, you're meant to be in this recovered state so that you can
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continue to rebuild out your system so you can enter the survival state when you meet two. You have
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to, you know, finish the hunt to bring help food home for the family. But you're not meant to be
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in survive. You're meant to not be in survival state that entire hot. We're going to be at the end
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when you're shoving the spear and to the prey and you're about, you're killing it that moment.
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When you're running from something that's trying to eat you, that moment. But to be there the entire
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time, you would, you would be selected against. We'll say the lovely evolutionary forces of this world.
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So, I agree with all of that. And the thing is is we, we live in a stimulus rich world. We live
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in a place where it's really easy to always think the tiger is chasing you. The tiger is not always
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chasing you. But it's really easy to think that it is because we're told that if we don't pay
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our bills on time, if we don't have our, or like when you're struggling to make rent, or when you're
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have a social engagement that's XYZ and you happen to have a social engagement in a long career
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time, you all end up seeing like these giant tigers and they're not. But they're not too a nervous
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system. That's in recover state. They are to a nervous system. This is real estate.
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Right. And then again, in this dopamine rich in environment where we've got dopamine
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nation. Yeah. And, and he's always saying it, people are in a constant state of, of heightened
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nervous system state. There's, there's a feedback loop that's taking place because what happens is
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the brain is overstimulated, which means it sends triggers to the body to shove down. And then
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the body shuts down. It never starts itself back up. And that says if that this fight or flight
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does have an off switch though, it does. And this is the part that most people don't pay attention to.
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That is there, there's several different ways to access that off switch. Well, I'll actually say
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a lot of people pay attention to it. So here's almost everyone knows ways that you can activate
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your recovery system. This is nothing new. Meditation, yoga, doing consistent workouts,
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actually can help quite a bit with helping activate that system. Like taking care of your body
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and your nervous system is a great way to activate the recovery system. Realistically,
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you're going to do that if you're able to do that in your routine right now.
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And that's part of the thesis behind our ever all the work that we do is we're going to support
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you in your current routine. Definitely go improve it. Definitely do the things that you know you
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need to do because you know what you need to do. People know what they need to do on a consistent
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base. They don't need anyone telling them what to do. They just need new tools to enter their
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environment to help them do those things. And the Zen bud and what we do with the Zen bud and
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the series too, which is launching in May. And I'll show that after this. But everything we do with
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that is meant to be a tool to add it to your cart system. Something that's extremely little friction.
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You wear it like a pair of headphones. You listen to your music and we're going to do all the work
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for you because if you could do the work yourself, you would have done the work for yourself. And
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that's fine. I want to support people that were in the same place that I need. Still in sometimes,
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so that they can live the routines that they want to live. So you can live the routine that
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you want to live in. And still support your sister. And that is the true core of what health
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should be. It's to support the lifestyle that you want to live. So the Zen bud, let's talk about
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the Zen bud there because where I'm trying to go is, yeah, there's off switches. And as you
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see, Sarah, you have some reading exercises, workout, yoga, meditation, going to a Tibetan monastery
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for 20 years. That's a great way to regulate your nervous system. Probably not most people's
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mayor, but not feasible for a lot of folks. But in a daily routine, there's a lot of things that
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you can do to get into this state. Yes. And unfortunately, people like, oh, I'm going to scroll
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on my phone and relax. Well, that's the opposite effect or I'm direct here. So I'm going to go watch
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a serial killer documentary before bed like opposite, right? Like, it's jumping though. It's very
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tempting. Well, we do these things, being a house of the dopamine hits that call it from them,
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but that doesn't fix the problem. Nope. It exacerbates it. But where I want to go with this is that
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there is the nervous system itself has an off switch. And in many cases, what's happening is that
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we're physiologically wired for this, this high stimulus. And eventually, the car turns off.
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But if you rev the engine so much and you just keep it in park, as you said, the car's going to
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stall at some point eventually. You're going to cost some pre-massive rent here. And this is why I
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love talking with people that have background understanding this industry because you're saying
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it a very elegant way right now. My life is a metaphor. Yeah. But I feel that too. But eventually,
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it shuts down. But the reality is that there is a vagus nerve. Yes. Some people are familiar with
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the vagus nerve. But the vagus nerve is actually the pathway all the way from the head to the toe
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that net defect is the longest nervous system where nervous the pathway in the nervous system.
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And it specifically runs from the brain to the gut and the gut brain and all of brain gut access
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space. Well, I mean, like you can think of it as the vagus nerve is the pathway your brain sends
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signals down to keep things steady state. Right. And when things aren't steady state because you're
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at survival load, it's not activated. And that's part at least it's not as activated, right?
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Right. This is all relative. There's a certain amount of signals coming down to the vagus nerve
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either when you're inspired by state or because otherwise, you know, your entire body would just
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you would just collapse, right? You fall off her. Well, I always think of it like it's like
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messenger traffic jams. Yes, that it's not even that the nervous that the vagus nerve isn't working
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so much as it's almost as if you need a defrag in your code. Because there's so much scrambled code
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going on that the message that's getting through the rest of the body isn't working. I like the idea
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traffic. So like a way to explain this is you can think of it. If you have a healthy vagus nerve,
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you could be as like like six lanes. Yes. Right. Cars me down cars get back. It's pretty simple.
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As you don't use it, there's a homely concept called heavy and perny in neuro science where
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heavy learning is you fire together wires together you fire the cart wires part when you're not firing
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neurons together consistently. They are going to say that system is less necessary. So let's put
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less energy in maintaining that. So you go down from six lanes to five lanes to four lanes to
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three lanes to two lanes to one lanes. You're going to get below one lane of traffic. You're still
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going to have one like this. Otherwise, you know, the system is not working at all. I just
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will have a card once while but you want to have a large lane. You want to have a bunch of lanes
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for your vagus nerve and your recover system so that you're able to activate it. And so it's
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able to be activated very easily. And that's how you deal with all the survival systems that you have
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to go into on a daily basis and how we're oriented now. But the problem is, is the more they
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use survival state, the more you're where your terrier body sees, the more you're biased about
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energy to keeping that state up and available, less energy is keeping the recover state,
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cover state shrinks. You should buy a state for us a little bit. And it just runs for a key. And
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this is a cycle that will continue to decrease activity of recover state, increase activity of
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survival state. And it puts you in a place where eventually all you can do is survive.
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Right. And that's part of the reason why tools like this, I think, and even though it's time
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just tools like this, spending real time to activate that state is incredibly important.
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Tools like this make it easier as well. I'm going to say this that for people who get stuck in
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that fight or fight that, you know, sympathetic nervous system state, the reality is is that
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anybody can downregulate, yes, if they take the time to do it, but that down regulation happens
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with attention. I'm going to say anybody is a strong work here. I would say nothing's impossible,
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but there are certain people that had gone into such a survival state that it in a so chronic
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that to expect them to ever be able to bring themselves out of that with self-exercise
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is unfair. Well, to them. Yeah, not really. There's always cases like that, but it's something
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I want to say it gets me a listener that's there themselves because I was there for a number of
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years. Like I was in a place where I could not. The only reason I got out of that place to
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any extent is because I completely devoted myself to a mission that was so far about myself that I
21:24
was willing to actually not focus on myself. Ironically enough, that helped me give out that.
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It was helping people that were in that place that I was. That's a help of confusing
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sentence. Soldier, yes, and in again, the idea that with intention, people can do is the problem
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is two people there in the stress. And if I say it's often like the drowning man who's
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flailing all over the place and doesn't know how to see the shore anymore. And it's that often it's
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the intention of going, okay, I must calm. And I see this like I was out with our friend Sean
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then doing cold punch. I hate cold punch. Like I absolutely hate it. It's not just it's
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octaves. And it's like I don't mind cryo chambers. I hate cold plunges. And you've got a really
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cold cold punch to us. Terrible. Like it is. We can see the icy fricking. Yeah. Oh gosh, like you
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have to seriously. Yeah, that's very cold. But the idea is that when you're in there, it is the
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you're not going to catch your breath unless you stop for a moment. Yeah. And force yourself into
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a guided breathing. It's the only way to down regulate in that situation because cold plunges
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trigger that sympathetic nervousness. They do it. It's survival. And in order to survive it,
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the only would thing is to intentionally bring that down and down regulate because it is such a
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heightened state of sympathetic nervous system. But it really does feel like a death. It's a
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narration. And it's literally the, okay, stop. Like you're bringing life or any of your
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notaries back to that cold. Let's just do it right now. We're seeing this self into that slow
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guided breathing. Yeah. Because the only way to survive is by down regulating. But I want to,
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I want to go in two different directions here for a moment. Okay. One of us go. I do want to get
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into talking about the Zen bud and the way that it's sure actually becoming part of that trigger
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that helps down regulate. But you have to be intentional and use it. Yes. But you you mentioned
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something where I wanted to go. And that is, I think most listeners who are listening to podcasts
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who are hearing about stuff like this, they're, you know, they're having an experience. Yeah.
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But I'd love for you to kind of unpack your experience. We touched on the generation
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sort of people who, you know, COVID and whatnot. I mean, it's hard to believe that I started six
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years ago. Like I can't hardly wrap my, who might be me feels now while I'm half your age.
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Oh, yeah. I mean, I can hardly wrap my head around. The COVID was six years ago already. But
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the generation that was locked at home and couldn't go to school with friends, a generation that,
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that literally learned how to go to school online as opposed to having social interaction
24:08
goes school. Oh, I mean, like the little lovely thing is to is that AI got integrated
24:12
around this time as well. So you ended up having a situation where people were in that home
24:17
environment. They were started for social context. And now there's these a bunch of AI platforms
24:23
that can do all of the work for you school wise. A lot of friends, I know just did not understand
24:28
their major whatsoever because of that. Well, I mean, just to mention also, like I have, I have
24:33
differing views on college in general, like even when you were doing the classes as intended,
24:38
like the wording there was minimal. All the wording came outside of class for the most part.
24:42
And the people, if, finally, if you're looking for people at how you skill,
24:45
are the ones different in the clubs, like I find those people were just like the smartest
24:48
engineers I've ever seen are the people that were actually doing stuff outside of class. But
24:53
that's his own piece. I think there was definitely a brain training with that. There was just
24:57
an energy drain in such a big way. And it, it really um, really good things feel a lot worse
25:07
perhaps than they are. And it was one of those really negative reality filters. And I'm happy
25:11
to talk about my experience both, but if you want me to, I can give you the full journey. I just,
25:15
I don't know how much depth you want me to know. I think I'd love to hear like there's always,
25:19
there's, there's a, there's, there's, there's, there's yeah, let's just do your passion. Yeah.
25:24
It's not just and I invented something and I want the world to have it. It is literally,
25:29
I experienced something and I want to help people who are experiencing that same thing.
25:34
And I think that that message speaks wildly. Well, I mean, like, I will say this,
25:38
anyone that goes in health, I say anyone, even if it's misguired or not,
25:42
has experienced help in some of their own capacity, right? Especially the folks end up doing
25:46
anything meaningful because it's really hard. Man, to like actually build something that's useful
25:52
to properly test and validate it and to do it on what's sometimes the shoestring budget,
25:58
especially when you get started or you're getting started. I require so much grit and so much
26:04
endurance and it requires that you sacrifice almost everything. And the only reason why people do
26:09
that is if they have already lost everything at one point or another and they, they're so passionate
26:15
of being sure that never happens to them or anyone else again, then they're willing to do that.
26:20
It's also why entrepreneurship is not for the fate of art, not by any capacity.
26:25
So I dealt with some rather severe OCD when I was, it was around the way I was led in,
26:33
was when that started. It was also when I decided to move on this path, which I kind of got very
26:37
obsessed with a neurotech. Bio systems always came really easy to me. People and social things
26:43
didn't actually come very easy to me. And that was part of where the focus on the OCD was,
26:46
so it may even harder to develop those skills over time. But biology always came really easily,
26:53
and I wanted to escape where I was at that point because I was suffering on a daily basis.
26:59
It was to the point there were times where I was considering whether it made sense to keep going,
27:04
right, in general. And I utilized the mission of neurotech and I essentially was neurotech to keep
27:12
things running because even if it didn't make sense for me to keep going, well, there's at least
27:16
there's this cool thing that I could work on, right? And I can maybe help people
27:20
escape my own problem by helping other people because one of the things that drove me literally
27:24
mad for a very long time was the suffering of other people. I know, like, I'm not trying to like,
27:31
oh, whoa, that was so virtuous. No, it was killing me because I would see people that were hurting,
27:37
and then I would feel that hurt, and then that would trigger my CT response, and that would just
27:41
make it so much worse. And so I came to this point where I'm like, okay, there are only two
27:46
other two ways I'm ever going to feel good again. And this was the stage's function. I will
27:51
one make it clear, but there are two ways either I will have to eliminate everyone from hurting ever
27:57
again. I sighed that I didn't want to do that. And then the other option was I had to have to
28:04
remove everyone's suffering. My mission to save it for a long time was to end human suffering
28:10
in general. And the way I thought to do that was through giving everyone virtual reality where
28:15
they could have anything they possibly wanted. And that required digging deep into the nervous
28:20
system. People had already figured out the reed side, so I was going to do the right side.
28:23
If you have any Naruto fans out there, it was basically the giant, the Turtle Sukiyomi.
28:28
But what's for a very long time when I was looking to do?
28:31
My mission's updated a little bit over time. I now call it liberate human consciousness. That's my
28:37
why. And that's also because over time I started to liberate some of my own consciousness.
28:42
I'm so fascinated with virtual reality. I think that stuff is going to be super cool once it's
28:46
full dive. That means you fully experience there. But that's what got to be started on the
28:51
journey at Baratek. And over time I saw how we can read. People who were doing it was a
28:56
lot of really cool work. Like Colonel's example. Do still do some really cool work on reading the
29:01
nervous system. But most of the technology to write in the nervous system was these non-invasive
29:07
essentially tens machines that were shocking ill. Or it was implants that were sometimes
29:12
they're just giant spikes, either in the brain or nervous system and somewhat destructive,
29:16
very crude. And it was clear that that was the part that was lacking was the right side, not the
29:21
wheat side. And so I focused on my efforts on new right side solutions. I came up with my own
29:27
system through middle school and high school. And then I realized that my system sucked.
29:32
And that there was better system that was already being developed. And I was interested.
29:35
So you were actually playing with this type of bioreal tech and nervous system activation
29:40
through your teenage years. Yes. Oh, this was a fundamental piece of my development.
29:44
Well, everything. And here's part that I find interesting about that, John, is that there's
29:48
always purpose in your passion, right? I guess that's the stuff. Like people who live for something
29:54
usually came through something first. Yes, Bob. And again, you're young. And I by no means
30:01
want a listener viewer to discredit that based on your age. Because I will say that
30:08
our generation being double your age. But it's like our generation experienced bullying and we
30:14
experienced all the other kind of stuff too. Like we had our own problems. We grew up with our own
30:20
generational issues. But your generation is unique to me in so much as you're grown up with
30:28
experiences that are, I'm going to say, kids weren't allowed to be kids in so many ways. And especially
30:36
with the internet and with everything that was out there. Like when I was a kid, like our biggest
30:41
fear was that America and Russia were going to blow each other up because kids can't worry about
30:46
the cold war. Yeah. But it's like that was so outside of my daily experience. And if it happened
30:52
to was done, we're out of done anyway. But the cold war was like the big thing when I was growing
30:58
up. This was this was the thing that was going to keep everybody awake at night. But the reality
31:02
is it was so far away from my everyday experience. Now we all had our own childhood troubles. No,
31:07
no doubt. But today's young people, I mean, I say like you and below, like so exgencies and alpha.
31:15
Yeah. Like I'm growing up with social media. Like my gosh, like I'm so glad that my childhood is
31:20
not documented online. But the idea that like every movie you make is an online thing, cyber bullied.
31:27
My generation doesn't believe in privacy anymore. Correct. No, no, we don't. Like at least,
31:32
okay, I'm speaking from my own experience and the people I know, there might be some. There's
31:36
always some that we otherwise, but by and large for everyone I talked with, it's just it's not
31:41
concerned. We expected all our dues being sold. We expect that we will never have privacy of any
31:45
part of our lives. And we're most are okay with it. When people let art end up having to go like
31:50
kind of nutty trying to prevent all this data leakage. Because data is what makes you valuable
31:56
to a lot of large companies. So they will find anyway to mind it that they can. It's what
32:01
which is fine. And the world boy is the this you grew up in an anxious world. Yes, that everybody
32:07
in this generation, I mean, my sister is 30 years old. And I say like the burden that a 30-year-old
32:13
carries for how terrible everything is in the world. It's like I don't live that way. I don't
32:17
experience that. Perhaps it's because I didn't experience it that same way growing up. But what I admire
32:24
is that you didn't grow up believing that was normal. I don't think I'll I think that that's not
32:32
common. I don't think that's uncommon either. I think there's a lot of people in my generation. Oh,
32:36
okay. I mean, maybe this is my only experience that I do. Oh, maybe I'm the old guy. But yeah,
32:41
I would say that I think too many people in your generation actually think that their life's
32:46
experience is normal. We don't know any different. I mean, I would say that there's that moment in
32:51
time that you that somewhere in adulthood every kid realizes their family wasn't normal. But
32:56
at the only family you knew, yeah. So if you always thought the way your family did it was normal,
33:01
right? Like for me, it was it was normal to have Christmas dinner on Christmas Eve and then do
33:05
nothing on Christmas Day. Like that was just normal. And like when I realized that there was a whole
33:09
world out there that actually did things on Christmas Day, I'm like, wait, that's people do that?
33:14
Because your traditions and your your family interactions like they're normal. But I think
33:20
the generation, your generation, I think most people I know in that group don't realize how
33:27
dysregulated they are. Well, because it's almost encouraged in a lot of the ways that we grew out
33:34
and how we functioned. Your encouraged outsourced your thinking to AI now. I mean, a lot of folks in my
33:39
generation, it doesn't mean that my generation has a massive advantage in using these tools because
33:44
we grew up with them in some of our formative years, especially in alpha now is going to be crazy
33:49
with these AI platforms. They'll be very dumb without them in comparison, but they'll be very,
33:54
very smart with them, which is a very key advantage. My generation was in this like really bearded
34:00
in between space where we had access to the internet, we'll get access to social media. AI platforms
34:04
when they came in are in college time for us. Yeah. So start a professional career. A lot of people's
34:10
career choices just if that were regular to be honest, I have a number of friends that are
34:15
graphic designers that they can still do work, but like right now a lot of their skills have been
34:21
trivialized by these AI platforms want to read or worse. And creative writing liberal arts
34:27
degrees have become a lot less useful when even engineering is sharing as liberal arts degrees
34:31
were never useful to be fair. Yeah, maybe not even less. So this is that we're gathered with
34:36
liberal arts to formulate. I mean, what you do is well realistically, a lot of times you go to
34:40
liberal arts and then you really should have to make mine so you go into business, right? And you
34:43
do that. But that's is that's the transition a lot of the times, which is fine. But now you're
34:47
just forced to make that be a little bit sooner, right? And I think there is this, it does feel like
34:54
in a way we were we were introduced to a highly addictive substance from a very young age. And
35:02
that is the internet and social media. And again, like this is a natural evolution of the marketplace
35:08
for better errors. I mean, this is not an excuse. It's not saying that there wasn't responsibility
35:13
here for what how this developed. But it's a natural evolution of marketplace of the most
35:17
addictive, engaging platforms survived. And they did and they thrived. And now we're introduced
35:24
to those taking advantage of every single mind-virus solution that you could. The little receptor for
35:31
social and validation, the little receptor for that little dopamine rush, the receptor fulfilling
35:35
just a little bit smarter because you learned a little tidbit over a little fact. You feeling
35:40
important because so your favorite influence or called you out in a stream or in a chat. And you
35:48
feeling like common with them, feeling that you're friends with them because they're playing the
35:51
same things that you play or they're doing the same thing that you do. This is not novel. It's not
35:58
what we were built for. And I'm not saying it's the end of the world. Social media has a lot of
36:03
benefits as well. But I am saying that there is a tendency to make us feel less safe on a consistency.
36:11
Our generation feels very unsafe. And that's the opposite point. And in all of that, there is a
36:19
I call that stuff out not to not to go down a rabbit hole about the generation, but to say
36:25
I'm okay to do that. I mean, I don't think there's a lot of people talking about this. So a lot of
36:30
people that talk about my generation are talking about it, surely from your perspective, right?
36:33
Clearly from hey, double our age, talking about we're seeing XYZ, I think having this discourse
36:40
with someone that's in this generation is a little bit more interesting. I think it is a safety
36:44
problem. And that's the it's nervous system bubble. It's actually a nervous system regulation
36:48
bubble. Most people don't know that. That is a what's happened is you've trained your system to feel
36:51
unsafe because of your environment. Not really your fault. To be honest, it's just an environment
36:55
looper object, but there's a safety problem and feeling safe and feeling accepted. And this is
37:02
also the reason why there was a whole bunch of identity problems as well for my generation, but
37:05
that's a that goes back to go to a deep conversation subject. And in all of that, what I want to point
37:11
out is that yes, I agree your generation is nervous system dysregulation, it's safety issues,
37:17
it's privacy issue, all of that. It's feeling safe. It won't make clear or that's probably
37:22
yeah, but the reality is is that what I want to highlight is that you were intuitive enough to
37:28
recognize the problem. And in that intuition have have spent your young life bringing a solution
37:36
to market that actually helps people with the intentionality of regulating the nervous system.
37:43
I was through the use of to circle way back. By stimulating that nervous system and in fact
37:49
taking that one lane of traffic that's been jammed and widening that traffic through stimulating
37:56
the failure start. Yeah, so working out and straightening that system over time. Yeah, still
38:01
big a start to talk to me about this. Well, it's specifically I'm going to spin one more
38:06
moment on what we're talking about previously, which is I had a calling to this work.
38:14
Before I even started like I had a call into this work before I even started with the worst
38:18
myosigate. Like that started mostly after I started being pushed into this path. And I think
38:27
like sometimes the universe or whatever hired how I believe I don't care. It's all the same thing
38:34
for better or worse. It tells you that you have to do something. I was told that I had to do this.
38:38
Whether I wanted to or not was irrelevant. And so I did. And I don't regret it whatsoever.
38:46
Because now that we have something here that I think can help liberate a lot of people.
38:50
But this is just one step or a path to a calling. That's all it is. And if you find that calling,
38:57
you need to answer it. So anyways, let's let's talk a little bit about Warwood. We haven't stock
39:03
for FUX. I'm excited for that. I want to talk about this. This is a new version of this product.
39:08
Yes, it's a series two. A very creatively named series two.
39:12
You know, like very sequential. Very sequential. Yes. So this here is a Zenbot.
39:21
It is a pair of headphones. Notice these lovely little blue dots right here. That's the
39:26
silicone. And when you put these on, you'll feel a little bit of a poking about your ear canal.
39:32
Right. Right about that. Right above. Yep. That's the overkill branch of the Vegas nerve. And
39:38
that's what that's all there is to it. And now you just plug it into your favorite USB-C power outlet.
39:43
Or if you need an adapter, you can use an adapter. I personally like how it's writing to your phone.
39:48
Yeah. Well, that's what I'm about to do. Yeah. It uses your phone battery. Yeah. Which it does,
39:52
which you're going to lose around three to four percent through 30 minutes to the relation session.
39:56
So just be warned on that. And then you play your RISEC. I like to play low-fi personally.
40:01
Undertale low-fi specifically. That's all there is to it, man. So because the device itself,
40:08
the technology in it is ultrasound, which is personally I enjoy, because earlier you had mentioned,
40:13
there's a bunch of devices out of the market that are electrical shocks. Would you be as terrible?
40:19
And it's like, I see people that put on these shock collars. Shock collars are tasers. I mean,
40:24
so the industry started with these implants way back when, and that was electrical.
40:31
Inflat, electrical was the whole stimulation for implants makes a lot of sense.
40:35
Not perfect sense, but a lot more sense than for non-imvasive applications. And then people try
40:40
to replicate that success with these non-imvasive devices. It compares into an implant,
40:44
non-imvasive electrical device makes a lot of sense, right? You don't have to go through a surgery.
40:48
It's hundreds of thousands of dollars. You have months of recovery. But you can have anything
40:51
on a base that makes a lot of sense. And then you have that version you have to hold up,
40:57
and now you have something that you can just stay on your neck and then shock you bear. And this
41:02
is great physiologically speaking. I really wanted to get the activation of that nerve, but it's not
41:06
great for making people feel safe, which is the whole point is helping people feel safe to get
41:12
in their body and in their environment. And to shock someone to try to make them feel safe,
41:17
it's just as counterproductive. Well, any time, this is funny, because any time that I've used
41:21
one of the electrical Vegas stimulators, yeah, like I actually get a rush of anxiety
41:28
before I push the button to actually start it, because I'm like, oh, this is going to stop.
41:33
You have the kind of hard core. It's kind of like cold plunging to be honest with you. Yeah,
41:37
it's a little device. It becomes this like this moment of sympathetic nervous system charge
41:43
before it shocks me. And then the shock itself is alarming. And I do understand physiologically
41:48
that it's triggering that Vegas nerve. But when I use this device, there's no shock.
41:54
There is a matter of fact, it's kind of call me, but it's it's ultrasound that's actually being
42:00
used to were vibrated, if you will. It's not like it's a vibrate. It's a way. So it's not
42:06
is a very, very high frequency. So you're not going to hear it. And you will feel slight warming
42:11
of those pads over time, usually at the with the new version, it's closer to the 10 to 15 minute
42:16
mark with the previous ones that are a little bit less stick. We end cushion for photos.
42:21
But you know, it's a it's a very pleasant experience. The place from from my perspective,
42:25
I mean, like I've been on the road for the last two and a half weeks where we're the process
42:29
of a fundraiser right now, which is always a lovely time to be in a startup. And it's been rough.
42:37
And this device is frankly the ultimate reason why I've been able to talk with it. Because from
42:42
pure energy perspective, it's helps me recover very quickly. Well, and what I enjoy, what I enjoy
42:48
about using the device itself is that it it's called me when you literally are triggering the
42:53
biggest nerve in my recommendation. I plug it into my phone and I'll play a a bread source app
42:59
or yes, you can. I would or absolutely because now I'm getting the combined thing. I mean,
43:04
tritzway, I can use them even in the sauna as long as I don't overheat them over time. But
43:09
but usually it's a short session. They're fine. I figure as long as my phone is still running,
43:15
the headphones are fine, but but it's yeah, I call it by our stacking, right? It's that I'm doing
43:21
this and this because together the hole is greater than the sum of parts. No, I mean, it's a lot
43:27
of times there's an A plus B effect, but that doesn't mean that's a bad effect or ball. I don't
43:30
mean less. And it's still A plus B. So when what I'm using it, it I find it very calming. And now
43:37
you should use it a lot of times before I go to bed. Yeah. And the other users do that. That's
43:42
the right has a 30 minute turn off timer, which is something important to know about use. You'll
43:46
plug it. It stops stimulating. You plug it back in. It starts me 30 minutes session after 30 minutes
43:51
it turns off because we have a lot of users. They'll use it and fall asleep. Let it on. Right.
43:55
Yeah. And so we had to add that because we didn't want it. It's not going to hurt you to stimulate
43:59
you all night. We've done testing with it. You get a bit loopy after like two and a half three
44:03
hours of consistent stimulation. At least that's how it's been my personal experience with doing
44:09
that because I was one of the people doing the durability test tech. But 30 minutes is usually
44:14
more than enough to be back to a really healthy steak. Well, but I noticed it like in as little
44:17
as like five. Oh, it lasts. It starts a lot. Five minutes is usually where you start to notice
44:24
the effect size. If not sooner, if you're in really high survival war, you should state at the
44:28
tired usage. 30 minutes is the session that we recommend up maximum. You do multiple sessions
44:35
in a day. They'll recommend 30 minutes a session. That's why we turn it off after 30. Yeah.
44:39
So they could just play you dead and forget about it. Fader, it's a little nervous. I had one of
44:42
the one of the first versions that you have. And it's like you had to be super intentional about
44:47
putting it on and using it. But what had all the problems of every neurotech device ever has,
44:53
which is it'd be hyper specific with placement and orientation. And you had to add,
44:58
we had to gel back then that you had to use for convective view of the ultrasound.
45:01
If you know what field, if anyone here is listening has ever done field off or you'll know that
45:05
you have the gel there, we actually spent a lot of work developing out these silicon pads so that
45:11
you don't have to do that anymore. But you know, it's a that previous series helped us learn a lot
45:20
and helped us develop this series here today, which really, frankly, it proves all in
45:24
pretty much every fall to the previous. And you know, what I love about this is one of the things
45:28
that I'm busy, right? Yeah. I'm a very busy person. I'm always going and I also am sloppy
45:34
about maintenance in a lot of ways. And what I love about this is I'm going to use headphones
45:39
anyways. Yes. So if I'm on an airplane, I'm going to use headphones anyways. So and I'm going to
45:47
listen to it out of my phone. And I hate using AirPods because of the EMF effect. Or the I won't
45:56
speak too much to EMF here, but this is a this is a blunt device. Correct. Yes. So also draw it is
46:03
is it's a wired headset, which I prefer. And it's a wired headset that's allow me to listen to the music
46:08
that I'm going to listen to anyways. Yep. And I'm getting the Vegas nurse stimulation from the
46:13
older sound at the same time. So what I like about it is that the best solutions are ones that fit
46:18
into people's lifestyles already. It's frictionless. It's so this is a product design piece.
46:24
I don't know how much the audience will care about this, but if you do, you do. The more
46:29
friction that is into your routine, the more difficult it is to stay. You're not doing a
46:32
cult blunder or daily basis mark. No, you're definitely not because it's something that you have
46:36
personal version to, but it's there's a lot of friction to it. And you can get into that routine
46:40
you can do that. But on average, if something is adding more friction than it is providing value,
46:48
it's not something we're going to do. Well, I give I give people the example that when they're
46:51
struggling going to the gym and those type of stuff, if you if you hate going to the gym,
46:56
you're going to do it. It's a chore and it's going to be a problem for you, but find something you
47:02
love. Like I it's a lot of times on the weekend, like I will play saying volleyball a lot of
47:07
the beach. And it's like, it's a great workout, but it doesn't feel like a workout because I'm
47:10
there to play. You're having fun. And I totally a benefit of a workout while doing something I enjoy.
47:16
And that's how I feel about this. So that is I'm getting depended for the Vegas nerve stimulation.
47:21
But I'm just listening to music, which is what I actually enjoy. I don't enjoy Vegas
47:25
nerves to murder. You don't enjoy Vegas. I enjoy the Vegas nerve stimulation. I enjoy the
47:30
maybe maybe maybe I'm just one of those odd ducks there, but I've experienced it. The experience
47:37
itself is not the rush. The rush is winter dog. But yeah, well, no, the rush is now you're when
47:41
you're done. The rush is looking at yourself over the course of a cut six seven months and seeing
47:47
how you've approved. I think when it comes to the gym and you see faster results with stuff like
47:51
this, but it is I think it is most important to be able to I keep an active record of who you are
47:58
on a day to day over time, but how you're progressing. That's just a smart thing to do in general.
48:03
FYI, so that you can look back and say, Hey, yeah, things still kind of suck right now, but
48:07
it's a hell of a lot there than it was six months ago, two years ago. I don't know if it's
48:14
a trend right now, but I've seen enough of YouTubers. I think there was something I could
48:16
have missed or be used to or he was doing like 10 years six years ago, like two years ago,
48:22
than today, right? That's just a I love that form of content because it is really just show you how
48:28
you grow over time that I already would call it the gap in the game. It's the wig gap in the game.
48:32
As we measure ourselves based on how far we have to go and we don't spend enough time seeing
48:38
how far we go. Yes, well, and that's useful to do because it means you push for yourself harder
48:44
and you continue to improve, but this needs to be fun as a journey to like your journey should be
48:51
fun. If it's not fun, then some things don't have not clicking right. It can be hard. It can be
48:57
difficult. It can be so crushing, but it should still be fun. It should still be like beach volleyball.
49:02
And I think in one of the aspects that a lot of people don't have right now is that feeling of
49:05
safety wherever they are, like they feel highly unsafe. And so even if they're doing things
49:10
they enjoy, like you wouldn't play beach volleyball if you feared that they were splashing the sand.
49:16
You wouldn't be doing that barefoot. And there's a lot of fear that there's a lot of
49:20
class in the sand right now, even when there isn't, because our systems are trained to always be
49:25
looking for a glass of it. So our podcast is called Age to Firelock. Yes. Connect
49:31
wide nervous system down regulation, moving from that sympathetic fighter flight into that
49:36
aerosympathetic rest and digest mode. How does that affect longevity and the aging process?
49:45
Think of it as like maintenance on your car, right? A feet like you're going to race cars
49:50
have to go through maintenance, right? If you're pushing your car as far as you can for a period of
49:54
time, you never do maintenance. It's going to crash. It's going to break down sooner.
50:00
The biggest nerve stimulation is a maintenance fact. We are helping you maintain your car,
50:07
get you into a state where you can do the work on your car that you need to if you're
50:10
carving your body on your journey. And so you could age defiantly. I look at it like the body,
50:16
I mean, the body functions if we're using that metaphor car and that is it's kind of like going
50:21
on the freeway in the third year. Yeah, but as you could do it, and you can drive your car in
50:27
third year all the way down the highway at 65 miles to an hour, but you're just beating up
50:33
to car so much and everybody knows that if I'm on the freeway, I need to be in fifth gear or higher.
50:39
Yeah, that's a straight, it's a state problem. So from that, you're driving and you're moving
50:45
and you're going the same speed as everybody else. But if you're driving in third gear and I'm
50:49
driving in fifth, the wear and tear on you is so much more than the wear and tear on me in fifth gear.
50:56
I am just running at higher RPMs for no additional lot point.
51:00
Well, John, I appreciate you being here with us on aged finally again, because we actually
51:05
did this last year's what we did. And I think did I show the prettiest version of the product on
51:10
that big right? I think that'd be great. Like a gap and gate analysis. Here it goes.
51:13
Very good. You know, maybe I put a side by side here. Yeah, I mean, I'm excited for the launch
51:18
of the new series to air. I agree with you. It's such a form factor. I'm determined. Yeah,
51:23
I think people are going to absolutely butt it. I thank you that you're going to continue to
51:27
continue to do that work and find continuous ways to support people in that respect.
51:33
Well, there are some stuff for those of you that are interested in learning more about the Zen
51:37
but which is a nervous system regulation device. It actually uses ultra sound to stimulate the
51:45
Vegas nerve and down regulate that hyperacted nervous system that I'm living in a stressful
51:51
world that Tiger is always coming to get me a mindset. I encourage you to check out zenbud.health.
51:58
All of the information will actually be in the notes below. This is John Hacker, who is the
52:04
co-founder of Zenbud and CEO and CEO of the company. And obviously, the man to
52:11
myth, the legend behind brimming this to market. And I'm so grateful that there's an option
52:16
to electrical stimulation. Yeah, I like that's part of the reason why we put a lot of effort
52:22
in building up this work factor is electrical stimulation is cool, scientifically speaking,
52:28
but day-to-day use is still bad. It's not fun to shock yourself. It should be fun and it should
52:36
be safe. So it should feel safe. Yeah, I'm super eager to get using this one. I just got my new
52:41
one. I'm excited to go ahead and use it. And I'm going to be traveling soon. So I'm looking
52:45
forward to taking it with me. So I'll get by on airplanes. Yeah. Again, take a look through all
52:50
of the notes below. I encourage you. There is no reason that 75% of our population should be
52:55
living in this stressed out debilitating state on a regular basis because what we consider to be
53:01
an emotional and psychological problem is in fact a physiological off switch. And there is a way
53:08
to flip that off switch so that we can get rid of this by causing use this recently. I keep
53:14
trying to close and I come up with the metal stories. I cause and use this reason. Oh, who is a
53:18
constant anxiety mass? And she ended up telling me she's like, is it normal? I keep falling
53:25
asleep every time I use it. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, because you're so busy living in this heightened
53:31
place that when you actually downregulate you realize that your body is just craving
53:37
sweet. You know, she should probably be using that before bed like every time for me,
53:41
probably a year you want. Oh my goodness. Join this again. I'm aged to finally and we'll see you soon.