Latest / The Reality Is / Letting Go Of Grudges

Transcript

Letting Go Of Grudges · The Reality Is

0:00
SPEAKER_03: That's it, right?
0:00
SPEAKER_03: They're not dealt with and allowed to fester.
0:03
SPEAKER_03: That is where it becomes dangerous because now you're coming up with just scenarios in your own head, in your own mind, and in your own heart.
0:10
SPEAKER_03: And we always go back to we know our heart is wicked and deceitful.
0:12
SPEAKER_03: Above all things, we will never be able to understand it.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: But here's my heart building up that okay.
0:17
SPEAKER_03: Now I've got to be justified.
0:19
SPEAKER_03: I've got to be right.
0:19
SPEAKER_03: I've got to.
0:20
SPEAKER_03: And you've got this perceived unfair treatment that you have now taken to a whole nother level that was never even meant by that other person.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: The reality.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: When the real life meets real fake.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: The reality.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: When the real life meets real faith.
0:45
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the reality is podcast, where we're here today to talk about real life and real faith.
0:50
SPEAKER_03: My name is Joey.
0:51
SPEAKER_03: I've got Richard over here.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: And before we get into our topic today, I've got a story that I have to share.
0:57
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
0:57
SPEAKER_03: As you know, as you know, I spent a long time on the road last week, but I traveled into Oklahoma.
1:04
SPEAKER_03: And only thing I knew about Oklahoma was the grass grows greener every day because of the song.
1:09
SPEAKER_03: By the way, the grass does grow greener there.
1:11
SPEAKER_03: And you've been through Oklahoma, right?
1:13
SPEAKER_03: I know you've, I don't know if you've been to this part of Oklahoma, the Laulton area.
1:18
SPEAKER_03: But so there's these hills, open field, right?
1:22
SPEAKER_03: Open field, just farms, green grass everywhere.
1:24
SPEAKER_03: And there's these hills that just go up and down.
1:27
SPEAKER_03: I am rolling through these beautiful hills.
1:29
SPEAKER_03: I've got my cruise control locked in at 65 miles per hour.
1:33
SPEAKER_03: One of the hills, I could not see the other side of the hill.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: And I get to the top of the hill, and there's like this little bump.
1:43
SPEAKER_03: And I had no time to do it.
1:45
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't slow down to anything.
1:46
SPEAKER_03: So literally, I just grabbed the steering wheel and I'm like, okay, here we go.
1:49
SPEAKER_03: And I promise you, all four wheels came off.
1:53
SPEAKER_03: I got screaming at the guy.
1:57
SPEAKER_03: Now there's one kid screaming with joy, yay! My wife is like, and I'm going, yes.
2:04
SPEAKER_03: But and it wasn't like little off the ground, like all four.
2:08
SPEAKER_03: And I finally landed and bounced this thing.
2:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm going, what the heck just happened?
2:12
SPEAKER_03: I did not know there was a hill like that, but oh my goodness.
2:15
SPEAKER_03: Uh, fun.
2:16
SPEAKER_03: At least for me, fun.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: Have you?
2:18
SPEAKER_03: Because I know you take these hills, I know you do all these things, and you're on a bike, like you're on your motorcycle doing this thing.
2:24
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever come over a hill and just like you your wheels came off and you like dropped it and you're like, yeah, baby, here we go.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: In a car, but not in a motorcycle.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you haven't done that on your motorcycle?
2:34
SPEAKER_02: Motorcycles airborne do not work well coming down.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: No, well, I don't know.
2:39
SPEAKER_03: You see the movies and you think, oh, that would be, you know.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it looks great on the movies.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: Does it work out in real life?
2:46
SPEAKER_02: Full dress Harley doesn't work well airborne.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you that right now.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: Well, good.
2:50
SPEAKER_03: But you have done it in a car.
2:51
SPEAKER_03: I have done it in a car.
2:52
SPEAKER_03: What an experience.
2:53
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, I would say long drive, long trip, but what a it's a beautiful place.
2:59
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I did not know how beautiful Oklahoma was.
3:02
SPEAKER_03: And we were just going, man, I just cannot believe green.
3:05
SPEAKER_03: Because I'm so used to right now, we've got all this brown grass here.
3:08
SPEAKER_03: It's we got some spits of green and some blooms coming up, but literally just fields of green out there.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: My wife was like, Oh, hey Phil, Hay Phil, Hayfill.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: Right.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: Like, uh, it just looked like Rass to me.
3:19
SPEAKER_03: But it was beautiful.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: It was beautiful.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, I will tell you, and and you know, we we travel around the world for a spot of beauty here or there or a unique site.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: The United States of America is the most fortunate people on earth.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: We have the most beautiful country, the most beautiful, hands down.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: So you you can go anywhere in the world you want to, but this is where it's at.
3:42
SPEAKER_03: So you know, I think you purposely said that because we are going in to talk about resentment and grudges.
3:47
SPEAKER_03: And people who don't live in the man, I kind of resent that statement.
3:52
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm a hold of grudge.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: But, you know, it's a great lead into what we're gonna be talking about today.
3:57
SPEAKER_03: Resentment and grudges.
3:58
SPEAKER_03: And I know this is something you said.
4:00
SPEAKER_03: Hey, let's let's tackle this.
4:01
SPEAKER_03: I know it's an emotional thing, but let's let's tackle this today.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: So I said, great, let's do it.
4:05
SPEAKER_03: So, because I know I hold some resentment, and I know I hold some grudges, but I am definitely ready to hear how you're gonna talk me out of holding on to resentment and grudges.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, Joey, we all do, and and that's the thing.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's a it's a human emotion, but as one author put it, it's the weakest of all human emotions because you're you're running around angry about something and you're doing nothing about it.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: And and so, but it it even goes back to the law.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh Leviticus 19 and verse 18, in the giving of the law, the Lord said, You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so even going all the way back, the Lord said, This is not healthy and this is not good.
4:54
SPEAKER_03: We are my my wife and I are going through a study right now.
4:57
SPEAKER_03: It's called it's it's the narrow road and the wide road.
5:00
SPEAKER_03: Right.
5:01
SPEAKER_03: And that's actually one of the points it brought up on the narrow road about loving others as yourself.
5:07
SPEAKER_03: And my wife literally said out loud, Well, that's a really narrow road right there.
5:11
SPEAKER_03: Right.
5:11
SPEAKER_03: Because that is so hard to do.
5:13
SPEAKER_03: I mean, here's somebody that I I hold a grudge against.
5:16
SPEAKER_03: I'm actually frustrated at this person, and I'm supposed to love them as myself.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: And and so when we think about that and we think about what that looks like, just the word resent itself refers to a bitterness due to a perceived injustice or insult.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean by perceived?
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Because it's real to me.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, okay, there's a lot of things that can be real to you uh that doesn't make it real.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I'm a fisherman.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: That's real to me.
5:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
5:49
SPEAKER_03: I threw you all off, Sophie.
5:51
SPEAKER_03: There's way too much in your head right now.
5:54
SPEAKER_03: Back to this.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: I've vowed to be nice on this podcast, so I'm I'm holding back on that.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Too late.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: You know, look, people feel resentment.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: They they feel like they want to hold a grudge for a lot of different reasons.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: All right.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: They can feel like they're cheated on, stolen from, lied to.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: It it and it becomes a reaction to what you perceive someone does to you.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: Now, your perception may or may not be correct, all right.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: You and I both, anybody, not just us, anybody's been in a position where someone has accused them of an insult or an action, and they're racking their little brain, going, for the life of me, I can't figure out where you're getting that.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: And and but they perceived an insult, and so you know, we say all the time that perception's 99% of reality.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: So so when we're talking about the the idea, the perception of, and I want people to hold on to that because when we're talking about that, you you always have to realize that the grudge you're holding may or may not have anything to it, but but you're still you're still there.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: So when we're talking about that, we boil it down this way before we really get into it.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: A grudge is nothing more than a refusal to forgive.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay?
7:14
SPEAKER_02: You you can label it any way you want to label it, you can call it whatever you want to call it.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: But if you're holding a resentment, if you're holding a grudge, it's nothing more than the refusal to forgive as God commands us to forgive.
7:25
SPEAKER_03: Man, you're so good at offending people.
7:27
SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, but you offended with truth and with love.
7:30
SPEAKER_03: I get that.
7:30
SPEAKER_03: I get that.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: But that what a true statement.
7:33
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it is just me saying I choose not to forgive you.
7:37
SPEAKER_03: And that's all it is.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: All right.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: Now you can you can argue all day long that that this person did.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: All right.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's go with it.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: When you go back and say the Lord hanging on the cross looked at the ones who nailed him on the cross, looked at the ones who made the false accusations that put him there, said, Father, forgive them.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so hey, it's nothing more than your choice to not forgive.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: All right.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: So so when you stop and you think about that and you you look at what it is, then why is it that God would be concerned about our grudges and about our resentment?
8:12
SPEAKER_02: Because it's sin in our life and it and it becomes a block, a spiritual block to what God is calling us to do.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: Now, we can argue all day long that I hold my grudge over here, but I'm able to serve over here, but you can't, okay?
8:28
SPEAKER_02: The the Bible's very clear that if I have sin in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so when I'm holding that known sin, I'm building that known wall, then where do I go from there?
8:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which is a really tough place to be at and a really hard place to overcome.
8:45
SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of times, well, vengeance is mine, says the Lord.
8:49
SPEAKER_03: But and I I know I've said this to you before, sometimes I don't like the way God's gonna take the vengeance because I know God's gonna show grace and mercy and forgiveness, and I don't want them to oh, but but you wanted God to have grace and mercy and forgiveness for you.
9:03
SPEAKER_03: Right.
9:04
SPEAKER_03: Well, well, yeah, because I'm I'm different.
9:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm more in no, you're not.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: Well, well, I'm high well no, no, you're not.
9:11
SPEAKER_03: God's gonna extend to them the same thing He's extended to you.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: Right.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: And I think sometimes we're upset with that because we like to see God do things the way we want to see we want to see it done.
9:26
SPEAKER_03: And God's going, no, no, no, I've got a much bigger plan that you don't understand and you will never be able to see.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: And that's key.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, when you stop and you think about holding grudges, I I would argue there's probably five basic reasons that that we decide we're gonna hold that grudge.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: And and I use that word intentionally, we decide, okay, it's it's all the decision.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: You you make the choice.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we've all heard the that person made me so mad, and and at the end of the day, that person maybe had an inappropriate action, but you decided how you were going to receive it and what you were going to do with it.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: So they made you do nothing.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: And and so we always have to remember that.
10:08
SPEAKER_03: I could say they uh sometimes I feel like, and other people probably as well, but I'll stick with myself.
10:15
SPEAKER_03: I feel like the reason I'm reacting a certain way is because, and you've probably heard this said, they're provoking me to do this.
10:23
SPEAKER_03: They are have you heard this, pushing my button, and and that person knows exactly which button to push.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: No, they really don't.
10:33
SPEAKER_03: You just have a button that you're ready to push yourself and say, Okay, now I have an excuse to behave the way I want to behave.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: And and that's really what it is.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: It's an excuse to behave the way I want to behave.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: And and when we think about that, the the thing with resentments and grudges, and we're gonna really unpack this hopefully as as we work through this.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: The thing with resentment and grudges, it it hurts no one but yourself.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: Okay, if if I'm holding a grudge against you, then at the end of the day, it's not hurting you a bit.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: I I'm running around with the anger, I'm running around not able to sleep, I'm running around with my relationship with the Lord interrupted because of my anger.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: And it's not bothering you a bit.
11:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sleeping peacefully.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Again, it's good.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: It's one of the weakest sides of anger that we have, right?
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Because it's all inward, and and so it causes a problem.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: So, what are some reasons?
11:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh misunderstanding forgiveness and what forgiveness means often keeps us in bondage to resentment and grudges.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh now, what I mean by that is sometimes we think of forgiveness as okay, so I've wronged you and you're going to forgive me, which means you're supposed to forget everything I did and and and not put any me on any checks or balances.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: That has nothing to do with what forgiveness is.
11:55
SPEAKER_03: Right.
11:56
SPEAKER_03: And and sometimes I feel like in forgiving that person, I'm saying what you did is okay.
12:05
SPEAKER_03: Right.
12:05
SPEAKER_03: And that is not what forgiving is.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: No, and and it's it's just not true.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: It's it has nothing to do with forgiveness.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: Now, forgiveness is God's gift to us to allow us to release someone from the hold they have on us.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: All right.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: So when I extend forgiveness to someone, that person decides whether they're going to accept that.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: They decide whether they even want that.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: All right.
12:29
SPEAKER_02: But my freedom comes and my obedience to God comes from me giving it.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: It has nothing to do with me saying, okay, what you did to me is okay.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: All right.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: That's not what I'm saying.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that you have permission to do it again.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: All right.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: But what I'm saying is you're not going to hold me in bondage to this anger.
12:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and I think this is where it gets really hard.
12:57
SPEAKER_03: And maybe you can uh help people understand this, because I'm now telling you I forgive you.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: But because I said I forgive you doesn't mean that we're all good.
13:08
SPEAKER_03: It just means I forgive you.
13:10
SPEAKER_03: We still have to work out a process of being all good, right?
13:14
SPEAKER_03: Well, uh yes, and there's a fine line there.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and this is where I'm saying this is where it gets really tricky.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: It it comes down to the I forgive you, but I'll never forget.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: That's that's not forgiveness.
13:25
SPEAKER_03: That's and I was gonna say, I don't think that's complete forgiveness.
13:28
SPEAKER_03: It's not at that point.
13:29
SPEAKER_03: You said, well, I forgive you, but I'm not gonna forget.
13:32
SPEAKER_03: Right.
13:32
SPEAKER_03: Well, then are have you really forgiven?
13:35
SPEAKER_02: I forgive you, but I'm leaving you locked in that cage, okay?
13:38
SPEAKER_02: That that's not forgiveness.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
13:40
SPEAKER_03: Okay, and that's what I want to clarify because I feel like that's not forgiveness.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: It's not, I I would argue, okay.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: So if forgiveness, okay, forgiveness does come with parameters, okay?
13:50
SPEAKER_02: So I forgive you, but I'm not allowing you to put me in danger again.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: So if we're talking about someone who assaulted me, someone who endangered my life, or something of that nature, okay, I can forgive you, but that doesn't mean I'm giving you access to me again.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, right?
14:07
SPEAKER_02: Or or that someone brutalized someone, and so they're supposed to go to prison and forgive that person and say, you know, please come do it again, right?
14:16
SPEAKER_02: That's not what we're talking about here.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: But what we're talking about is releasing that person and not allowing them to control you.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: If we really want to talk about the lack of forgiveness and misunderstanding forgiveness, Joey, when I refuse to forgive someone, I'm making that person an idol.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay, you think about that.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: What is an idol?
14:37
SPEAKER_03: Anything you place above God.
14:38
SPEAKER_03: Anything all my attention, my time, my effort, everything I am focusing on that, that has now become an idol in my life.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: So when I hold anger and animosity and my waking thoughts are on you, you just became an idol in my life.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: As a matter of fact, you became an idol to the point that you are taking control over uh God's place in my life.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: All right.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: Now, people don't like to hear that, but at the end of the day, that is absolute.
15:04
SPEAKER_03: So I would argue good at offending people.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh I would argue that that one of the main reasons that we hold grudges is because we totally misunderstand forgiveness and we don't realize that forgiveness is a release of that person.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: I I I mean, it's it's you, you know, I know, I mean, people that are angry about stuff that happened 15, 20 years ago, right?
15:29
SPEAKER_02: And and they're still so angry about it.
15:31
SPEAKER_02: And you're like, okay, dude, moving on.
15:34
SPEAKER_03: At some point you've got to release it, at some point you've got to let it go.
15:36
SPEAKER_03: But I'm so glad you broke that down because uh again, we do have a misunderstanding about forgiveness.
15:43
SPEAKER_03: You have to let it go and give it to God and now let God take care of it.
15:48
SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't mean, oh yeah, what you did to me is okay, and yeah, I'm just gonna I'm gonna accept you back in into my life and give you the same freedoms you had before.
15:58
SPEAKER_03: No, like you said, I've got to set up some type of parameter to make sure I'm not hurt again.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: But but I'm releasing that.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm releasing that to God.
16:07
SPEAKER_02: And that's that's key.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: And I I think a second idea behind we we don't release or give forgiveness because we misunderstand it, but another idea, we hold resentment and grudges because somehow or another we feel a sense of justice must be done.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, so uh huh, you know, I have the responsibility to make sure justice is done for how this person treated me.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I'm so glad you said that.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: So and I agree with that statement, exactly, but that's wrong.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Problem is God doesn't agree with that.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: God doesn't agree with that statement.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: You know, we've talked about God's head vengeance is mine, says the Lord.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: It it it is God's place to decide where justice needs to be done.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: And and so, really and truthfully, when you are living in a world that says you have some kind of responsibility to to to effect judge justice for whatever you perceive you went through, dude, you you're you're never gonna win that one.
17:07
SPEAKER_03: This is where it gets hard.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: This is where it gets hard.
17:09
SPEAKER_03: Because people are, okay, I have had this happen.
17:12
SPEAKER_03: You know, people are gonna forgive you, forgive you, and then they're gonna come back and then they hurt you again.
17:17
SPEAKER_03: And and you're stuck in this whole, okay, I have to keep forgiving, I have to keep forgiving, I have to keep forgiving.
17:22
SPEAKER_03: And I know most of the disciples, they were like, hey, you know, if I forgive seven times, I'm I'm good, right?
17:28
SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: And Jesus said, No, I want you to do it 70 times, which basically is just an image.
17:33
SPEAKER_03: Just keep forgiving.
17:35
SPEAKER_03: This is where I feel like a lot of people get stuck, me included, where I go, but they keep doing it to me.
17:43
SPEAKER_03: It's the same thing over and over and over and over and over again.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: And I'm just supposed to go, I forgive you.
17:50
SPEAKER_03: And you look at me and say, Yeah, Joey, you are.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: Well, and and when you when you get that the justice is God's and not yours.
18:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: You go back and you think about where Peter went to the Lord and said, Lord, I I how many times do you want me to do this?
18:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've now bear in mind when he said seven times, the the Jewish tradition was three.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: All right.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: So you for two, and then the third time you were free from feather.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: So what Peter was doing was doubling plus one.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm I mean look at me.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: And and the Lord said, doesn't even touch it.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: All right.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: James 120 says the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: All right.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: So so if I'm going to argue that that my my system of justice comes into play anywhere, I'm completely missing what God is doing.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:41
SPEAKER_03: And and I'll say this on a personal note and a very truthful note.
18:45
SPEAKER_03: There have been times where I have handled it myself, and then I feel horrible afterwards.
18:53
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
18:53
SPEAKER_03: Right?
18:54
SPEAKER_03: Because that's not I've completely misrepresented God.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: I've completely did not show the love of Christ.
19:02
SPEAKER_03: And then what I've done to that other person is completely and some sometimes possibly turn them away from God.
19:10
SPEAKER_03: And that that's a horrible thing.
19:12
SPEAKER_03: You do not want to be responsible for leading a child of God astray.
19:16
SPEAKER_03: No, I mean, there's a woe to that.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, and and I think one of the things when we talk about these first two areas, this this idea that we misunderstand forgiveness and this idea that we have a sense of justice needs to be done.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: It's important to remember that forgiveness and reconciliation are not synonymous.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: It's not the same thing.
19:33
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: So I can forgive, but that doesn't mean I have to reconcile.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: No.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: When we're talking about reconciliation, I would argue that that needs to be something worked towards.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: But reconciliation is not always possible.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: I have known people that were victims of horrific crimes.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: All right.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: And somehow or another in their heart they manage to get to forgiveness.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: But no, it's I'm not inviting them over for Christmas dinner.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: And there is a difference in what we're talking about there.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think we have to always hold on to that.
20:05
SPEAKER_03: Please.
20:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
20:05
SPEAKER_03: That's very good.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: Very good.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: And then resentment and grudges can be produced by perceived unfair treatment by another person.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: I notice you said perceived.
20:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, I know I've wore that word out on this podcast, but but the reality is the majority of the time that I've become offended at someone or someone's been offended at me.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: And notice I said it goes both ways.
20:30
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely possible.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: It's a perception.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: You know?
20:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've been so upset at people, and then you you you are about ready to come to blows, and and through conversation and through mediation or whatever word you want to put to it, suddenly you're like, Well, you really didn't mean that, did you?
20:48
SPEAKER_02: That's not the way you intended that.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, not at all.
20:51
SPEAKER_03: Not at all.
20:52
SPEAKER_03: You and I personally had that.
20:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: We had that personally happen to us.
20:56
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, where did you get that from?
20:58
SPEAKER_03: Well, this is what you did.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, but I meant this.
21:00
SPEAKER_03: And but we talked about it, and that thing didn't even last two minutes.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: No, and it was over with.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: And and but the perception of something not dealt with and and and allowed to fester.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's it, right?
21:14
SPEAKER_03: They're not dealt with and allowed to fester, that is where it becomes dangerous because now you're coming up with just scenarios in your own head, in your own mind, and in your own heart.
21:23
SPEAKER_03: And we always go back to we know our heart is wicked and deceitful.
21:26
SPEAKER_03: Above all things, we will never be able to understand it.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: But here's my heart building up that, okay.
21:31
SPEAKER_03: Now I've got to be justified, I've got to be right, I've got to, and you've got this perceived unfair treatment that you have now taken to a whole nother level that was never even meant by that other person.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's a known fact that you can tell a story enough that you believe it.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: That is very true.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: And so what happens is you you keep telling the story, even if it's in your own mind.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: You keep telling the story the way you perceive the story, and before long, the your perception becomes the facts of the story.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: Whether that's the facts or not, that becomes the facts of the story.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: And so it it when you have a perceived unfair treatment, all right, and and it it comes down to Christ said in in Matthew 5, he said, you've heard it said that uh an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: But I tell you to resist an evil person.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: Whoever slaps you on the right then give them the left.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: And it really boils down to like when I was a kid, we would always say, okay, you know, it says turn the other cheek.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: It does not say what to do after that.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: So you know and that's probably not the best biblical explanation.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: But I'm still holding on to because you actually went through this in a sermon one time and you broke down this whole thing and I still remember that the whole you know more of a legal type of thing.
22:49
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: And that that picture has stayed with me because I always felt well not because brother from the hood you slap me guess what bro I'm not turning the other cheek.
22:59
SPEAKER_03: We're about to go to blows and and this is different though.
23:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah this is different not what you're talking about.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: No and and and the whole thing though is is thinking about the justice you're trying to create in your own life and when you're trying to do that you're just creating a no win.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely your perception is the problem.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: Now I'm just telling you it it uh you know the old saying there's your side my side and then the truth is somewhere in the middle.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: And so perception it it becomes a problem.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: Another thing people hold grudges and feel resentment when they pres perceive unfortunately now catch this an injustice even while serving God as pastors as most of our listening audience will be Christians so many of them have been hurt in church.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: I wish I could say this one doesn't didn't exist but faithful pastors church leaders teachers elders man look they fall into this category where they perceive an injustice and and and they just get hurt and they're like okay I'm serving God I shouldn't be treated this way.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: I volunteer my time I shouldn't be treated this way.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: Well then we come to Elijah you know it it and here we are you know he was faithful he was serving God yet he faced many hardships then we come to Job I just got out of the book of Job.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: Job was sitting around minding his own business right and so what happens is is we do in the course of serving the Lord whether you're a pastor elder whether you're a lay leader whether no matter what in the course of serving the Lord there are people that will become angry at you simply because you told them the truth.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely all right and and then then it's on uh it happens there there are a lot of misunderstandings I I know that when we're talking about ministry we're talking about a growing ministry we're talking about a lot of moving parts sometimes we don't explain stuff as well as we could no we don't we we just say do this and we all and and so the perception builds up and and so I really want to put that out there.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: You know sometimes we let the perception of what happened to us even in the service of God keep us from serving God.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely I just know so many people that walk have walked away from service or they limit their service they go right up to a point where they could really be used by God and they shut it down.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately I know a lot of people that attack people who are serving God because they have resentment and grudges.
25:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah and and I think you have said this before uh anybody who has spent any time in church has been hurt by church or church people.
25:55
SPEAKER_03: That's not your excuse to turn around and say I don't want anything to do with serving God.
26:00
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely not your excuse.
26:01
SPEAKER_03: No and and I mean we're fallen humans.
26:05
SPEAKER_03: Period you know period and and and that's where it gets really hard because you and I have both dealt with like tremendous church hurt.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: And unfortunately for me I was hurt by church people and I said to myself oh if this is the way church people are then I want nothing to do with Christ so I'm gonna walk away and I walked away from Christ because of the church people praise God he brought me back and I understood the truth about who he is I get into the word and now I I understand that.
26:41
SPEAKER_03: But I know people such as myself who have been hurt by church people the people are sinners and they walk away from Christ who is perfect and holy.
26:53
SPEAKER_03: And we've got to make sure that's not happening.
26:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah the church will hurt church people will hurt because we're flawed we're human beings that's gonna happen please don't let that be your excuse for turning your back on Christ himself because what Christ did for you is amazing.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely you know I had a friend of mine years ago and and and he worded it to me this way and and I mean I think it's as clear as it can be and that is hurting people hurt people.
27:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay and guess what e even Christians are hurting people.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Yes and and so it goes back to you cannot allow that person to keep you from serving God.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: You you you can't yeah and we've both been in those situations where it would have been easier to walk away than it would have been to stay put.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely right and but you can't let that happen.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: And then finally a situation that can foster judges and resentments is this is not from serving God this is from being called out for sin in our life now when somebody points out sin in your life directly or indirectly let me tell you something you have one of two choices you either repent and you thank that brother for coming alongside you or you attack the brother that those are your only two choices.
28:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah and sad to say that has happened in my life and I chose man you don't even know what you're talking about.
28:23
SPEAKER_03: Man you're out of place you're out of line da da da and then you know a month later it's like I'm sorry brother you I thank you for right thank you for pointing out what you saw because sometimes you're in the middle of the scene and you don't see it the way the other person from the outside looking in sees how you're destroying your life because of it and they're lovingly coming to you and telling you hey this is what's happening this is what you are doing and this is how you are wrong.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: You need to get right with God and then you again two choices man thank you so much for pointing that out or bro you don't even know what you're talking about man stay like this my life you don't get to tell me what I do in my life and then pride leads you completely to the destruction.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: And and when somebody is walking with God and and and just doing as we're to do as brothers in Christ and and that's one thing to be judgmental of you we get that but it's a whole different thing when you just say dude that's wrong yeah and and they become angry about that.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: So it hurts.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah absolutely so how do we get rid of it?
29:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah right please we got grudges we got resentment so how do we get rid of it you know I would argue first of all remember you have to focus your love daily on the Lord following the great commandment and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart your soul and your mind okay so if I'm loving God with all my heart my soul and my mind then I'm allowing God to take me through the resentment through the hurt through the perception and and and if people don't hear anything else we say on this podcast the resentment and grudge you're holding is probably a perception on your part yeah and even if it's not uh even if it's 100% legitimate if if you love God with all your heart I believe God's going to give you freedom for you.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: Amen I really do.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: People say but aren't you angry at what somebody said or somebody did and and I would be a lie if it didn't say you know sometimes it it does.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:17
SPEAKER_02: But I tell people all the time you know what that's the advantage of just being a dumb redneck.
30:21
SPEAKER_02: You're not smart enough to know you're supposed to be mad you know I I just I I mean I just people think it's just preacher talk so to speak.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: I just don't let stuff bother me.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: And now sometimes I do but I will tell you this if I'm loving the Lord my God with all my heart my soul and my mind guess what I don't have time to let you somebody's nonsense bother me.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
30:44
SPEAKER_03: And my wife and I were just talking about that the other day because years ago I had to get to that place in my life where it says you know what I I really don't care what other people may think or say.
30:55
SPEAKER_03: And I know that sounds harsh I know that sounds wrong but but the reason I don't care is because God made it clear to me how he feels about me and how he cares about me.
31:07
SPEAKER_03: And as as long as I know I've got a loving Father in heaven and his only son who died for me and the Holy Spirit who dwells inside of me and as long as I'm pleasing to him it sounds rude and disrespectful but I'm sorry I I guess as you say it I don't have time to worry about how you feel but because my wife is like how do you just let things like that roll off your back because I don't care and I know I guess that sounds harsh I guess it sounds wrong but I I really don't care.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: You know it's not that I don't care for the person for the person.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: I I just don't care what they have to say.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah you know okay if you don't like me okay moving on you if I can apologize I'll apologize and and if I and I promise you if if I've offended I will offend 100% if you perceive I've offended I'll I'll apologize but I'm not gonna apologize for telling the truth and I'm I may I'll apologize maybe for I said it right yeah but at the end of the day I look at this this whole idea of holding resentment and grudges as Nehemiah on the wall Sam Ballot was trying to get him to come off the wall and what did he say?
32:14
SPEAKER_02: What you want me to come down stop the work of the Lord and deal with your nonsense I'm not gonna do it.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: And so if we could just get to the point that we say you know what I'm not gonna let Satan win this one I'm going to forgive this person going to not allow this person to dominate me and I'm gonna love God with all my heart and it brings us to the second idea and I'm gonna love others as my Satan okay two greatest commands Jesus said right and sometimes I've had people say how in the world can can you still talk to that person knowing what they said about you knowing what happened and I can honestly say you know what because God forgave me and and God did a work in my life that that is beyond look I'm not above the next person.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: Yes sometimes I get angry sometimes I stay angry and and but I I will tell you this there's never ever a win to that not at all and and you know we said it earlier when when I'm angry at at you the only one that loses is me.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah you know yeah because you don't even know no you know and I again hate to admit it but I have been that guy who's holding a grudge against somebody and I'm the one losing sleep over it because I'm playing conversations in my head I'm mad and this is what's gonna happen next time I see that person and I'm working myself up.
33:38
SPEAKER_03: And that other person ain't even thinking about he's enjoying his steak and and eating his dinner sleeping and it affects me.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: And so you're the loser not the person okay Ephesians 4 31 and 32 let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you along with all malice.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: You literally just define a grudge okay be kind to one another tenderhearted forgiving one another as God in Christ forgave you and and when you when you get that then it begins to make sense.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah absolutely so we love the Lord our God with all of our heart or soul and mind we love others as ourselves and then finally I would argue that we listen to the Holy Spirit as we navigate these relationships okay trust in the Lord with all your heart lean not on your own understanding all your ways and he will direct your paths okay yeah so you pray for that person.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: You deliberately intentionally pray for that person and then you remember Romans 1218 if it is possible as much as depends on you live peaceably with all men.
34:44
SPEAKER_03: I think I have used that verse every day of my life because I am God look like I was just away I had one of my children oh this is what's going on and I literally just we're sitting at the dinner table and first of all we pulled all the phones away because I was tired of people being on their phones but I had to I pulled out my phone I went to the Bible app I pulled up Romans 1218 and I just said read that for me literally I am constantly using the it's up to you right you have the ability to allow peace what are you gonna do about it and and that's the bottom but this person but this person I don't want to hear about but these people what are you doing to create the peace and look I'm not just saying it to my children I'm not just saying it to other people I'm saying this to myself because I'm in those situations and look you you hear from people I get emails too about well this is what you should be doing in your ministry and blah blah blah.
35:48
SPEAKER_03: Okay great can we sit down and talk about this and I'll explain why I do the way I do okay tell me your heart about it let's let I'm keeping peace man I'm not I'm not just gonna rip apart somebody because again I'm gonna consider others higher than myself I'm gonna love others and peaceably we're gonna sit down and we're gonna have a conversation about this.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: As much as lies within me within me so I can't do anything about you if if I'm if I'm trying to have a conversation with you and you keep making accusations that are baseless that are groundless and you do anything about that and and and you're told they're baseless they're groundless but yet you I mean all I can do is my part.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah and and if we could just get and and the Holy Spirit will direct me into my part.
36:32
SPEAKER_03: Amen and so that amen so let go of the grudges man let go of the resentment I I love that and I really this is timely and I think it's timely for a lot of people to hear this.
36:42
SPEAKER_03: It's definitely timely in my life obviously you know that but a lot of you guys out there are listening to this and you're going man I think I've been holding on to an unnecessary grudge I really pray and I really hope this gets you to the place where you can actually look at some of these you can examine this and go back and say what am what am I doing and why am I holding on to this grudge and how can I Romans 1218 keep the peace and what do I need to do maybe I need to say hey you know it's time for me to have a conversation maybe I need a mediator to come in and say because I'm so angry at this but but I do want to forget and I want to I want to have that peace maybe this is the time for you to start doing that thank you so much.
37:26
SPEAKER_02: Will you wrap this thing up for me absolutely if if there's an insult um perceived or real doesn't matter why worry about it concentrate on who you are in Christ and and um we place way too much value on the cruel words of others so know who I am in Christ and and serve from there.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: If God allows me to dishonor be dishonored for the sake of his of sanctification of of of serving him okay so be it.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah right and and so we release it and that allows God to use us we hold it we're building a wedge we're building a wall so that that would be the thing just know who you are in Christ.
38:06
SPEAKER_03: I love that and don't let people own you.
38:08
SPEAKER_03: Man thank you for sharing that and guys thank you so much for listening and tuning in to the reality is podcast where we're here talking about real life and real faith would you do us a favor would you like subscribe share this with your friends and go on and ring the bell that way you will never miss another episode of what's going to be taking place here on the reality is but for now we'd like to say God bless you and have a wonderful day.