Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Faith, Politics, and Legacy: Remembering Charlie Kirk

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Normally Podcast: Faith, Politics, and Legacy: Remembering Charlie Kirk · Normally

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, we are back on. Normally, the show with
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: It takes for when the news gets weird. I am
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Mary catherin him.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: And I'm Carol Marcolitz. How are you doing, Mary?
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: I'm all right.
• 0:13
  Speaker 4: It's it's been quite a news cycle, weird as they come, sad,
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: hard to spend a lot of time in. And I
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: spent quite a bit of time yesterday, both on TV
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: and at home, watching the Charlie Kirk memorial service, which
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: took place in a giant.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Stadium in Arizona.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Hundreds of thousands of people there, many that had to
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: go to overflow because they could not get into the
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: actual arena, and just scores of speakers and beautiful tributes
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: and videos. And by the way, just as a you've
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: been a political operative in the past and someone who
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: has to put events together, a massive, incredible and nearly
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: flaw as far as I could tell, logistical event on
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: weeks notice while they were grieving their boss and friend.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: It's amazing. TPUSA deserves so much praise for it, and
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: just the event itself was really wonderful. I look, I'm Jewish.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I loved the Christian themes all the way through. I
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: thought that I loved that, just just a general talking
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: about God so openly and talking about faith so openly
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: if you just don't get that very often and in
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: a public setting, and this is what Charlie was all about.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I always, you know, after he passed, I tweeted that
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: one of my favorite things about him was his open faith.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: When you would talk to him, it would be in
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: everything that he did, and said, I love that they
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: honored that for the most part. We'll get into the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: rest of that.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, you know, I talked to somebody. I
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: can't remember if I mentioned it here, but I talked
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: to someone last week who was about my age, maybe older,
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: has teen or college age kids, and he said, you know,
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: I thought of Charlie as a political animal, which was
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: basically my impression of him. Although a fellow Christian, I
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: knew that, but my kids thought of him.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: As a faith leader.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: And I'm just saying, yeah, And I think that was
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: a shift he had very noticeably made. Again, I wasn't
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: the demo for all of his content, so I wasn't
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: always looking at it as much, and I somewhat regret
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: it now because I think I would have appreciated him
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: more while he was here. But yeah, I think there
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: was a shift in what he was doing, and you
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: saw that reflected in the celebration of his life, which
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: was a celebration of his faith and the fact that
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: his influence on people was in large part to make
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: them think about their own faith, to think about their
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: own purpose in this life, and to seek the Bible
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: and truth and Jesus, and that that would have been
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: the thing that made him most happy. And so I
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: think that very clearly reflected who he was, and there
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: were various parts that were beautiful and the I did
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: note and again the jibes with him being a faith
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: leader that five, six, seven, ten of the people I
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: watched speak just told the story of the Gospel. I
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: think Marco Rubio gave a ninety second explication of the
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: Gospel that was downright perfect and very passionate. You could
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: tell that Rubio really believes this. We really picked a winner,
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: and that guy back in the day, I love that guy.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I love that guy.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: Various preachers who said the same thing avoided the thing
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: often that people do, which is to deify the person
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: who died instead of God, who you're actually talking about.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: So I thought so much of that was beautiful. I
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: was on TV with Fox and trying not to listen
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: to the music too much because I knew I would
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: cry right if I got too involved in it.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: One of the things that I had heard in the
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: last few days was Dana lash tweeted to all of
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: the pastors who are not seizing what is a massive
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: revival and expanding on this in your churches. Why why
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: are you scared to talk about this? Why are you
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: not standing in the gap? This is the moment. I
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: think people really need to look at their churches. And
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you Dana tweeted that she left her church,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: and I said, you know, I'm so sorry because the
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Jewish experience is such that I have left many synagogues
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: in my life over stupid politics. And I think that
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: churches should seize this opportunity. It is a moment where
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: people are turning to their faith, and I think this
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: is such a great time for churches to grow their memberships,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: to expand what people think about God. I think it's
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: a really, really important moment. And Charlie would have loved that.
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's so much there's, of course, in fighting, as
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: there is any religion within Christianity, and Catholics versus Protestants,
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: but about how you live in a secular world as
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: a person of faith, and we all have different ways
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: of tackling it. And I grew up in a very
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: liberal place where I probably took on too much of
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: a light touch, like, oh, well, I don't want to
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: be too pushy, I don't want to be to this
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: or to that. And Charlie didn't really worry about that,
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: Like Charlie was just like, this is what I believe.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: I'm a person who has spoken about my faith in
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: public life, but it was specifically because I went through
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: tragedy in public life. I'm not sure I would have
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: talked about it as much had it not been necessary
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: for me in that moment. And I've certainly taken from
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Charlie that I should just be more bold about it. Bold,
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: I think is the word for it. And I think
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: a lot of people are looking for churches that are
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: bold and serious, not churches.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: That are like, oh yeah, a little bit, just one second,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: same a percynagogue'es same same, yes, yeah.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: So at the end of this day, not quite the end,
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: because the president spoke after her, But Charlie Kirk's widow
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: Erica kirkk spoke and I want to give my strongest
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: recommendation that you sit down and watch the whole thing.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I think it was about thirty minutes long, probably from
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: beginning to end.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: She is stunningly poised and strong, I would say from
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: someone who has been through something similar, although with fewer
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: eyes on me than she has. That is her faith
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: that is allowing her to do that. It is that
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: in and of.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Itself, is a testimony.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: She spoke to Robert Draper of The New York Times and, uh,
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: you know, everybody talks about Charlie faith, but her testimony
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: that this terrible thing happened to me and I don't
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: understand why, but God understands why, and I'm trusting him.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is some very powerful stuff.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: And I don't think I'm prone to this type of
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: exaggeration or anything like that. So I was like gauging
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: my reaction to this speech. I think that that speech
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: belongs in American oratory.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Absolutely mystery.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: She was mesmerizing. She really was.
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: To match a moment in that way perfectly and to
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: be so moving, I mean, you know's what's the last
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: speech that we talked about being part of the annals
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: of oratorical history in this country, probably like Barack Obama
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: bursts onto the scene at that DNC with red America,
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: Blue America.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Look, he's a good speech giver. Nope, eh, no doubt.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: No, No, I never found him to be that great.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I can't remember anything he said. Name something he said
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: other than like, if you like your doctor, you can
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: keep your doctor.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: That what I can name, Yeah, but what else? You know?
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: It worth thin?
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: Certainly like Okay, I'll give you that speech and say
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: like it was impressive in the room. But I would
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: wager that there's it's so shallow compared to what she
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: was doing. It's it And that's partly just because it's politics,
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: and it is it is less than talking about this
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: about mortality and faith and life and death. But I
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: think that one deserves a spot in the in the
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: history of American speeches in oratory for sure.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: And I mean she brought the house down when she
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: said she forgives Charlie's killer, which was it was like
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: a gut punch. I felt it so deeply when she
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: said that, how hard that must have been for her,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: How hard it must be to say those words. And
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: how hard it must be to have that feeling. And I,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just it's beyond my imagination.
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: Well, and she said right before or that the kind
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: and I have wondered if she was going there. She said,
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: the kind of young man that Charlie wanted to save
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: from this purposeless life, from anger, from feeling like there's
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: no path for you. That's exactly the kind of person
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: he was speaking to, right kind that took his life.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: And then she went on to forgive him.
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: And let's play that clip and we're gonna let it
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: breathe because it's like two minutes of her in standing
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: ovation and it is powerful.
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: On the Cross, our Savior said, Father, forgive them, for
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: they not know what they do.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: That man, that young man, I forgive him.
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: I forgive him because it was what Christ did.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: And is what Charlie would do.
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: know from the Gospel is love and always love, love
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: for our enemies, and love for those who persecute us.
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: The world needs turning Point USA.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: It needs a.
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: Group that will point young people away from the path
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: of misery and sin.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Wow, it's just breathtaking. The fact that she's taking over TPUSA, like,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I think they're in such good hands.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: Well and she I thought she had so many interesting
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: messages and good, good messages for people who are looking
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: to have a good relationship or a good marriage. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: in the ways that she and Charlie tried to serve
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: each other, and you know, an admonition to Christian husbands
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: where she said, you know, it was a little bit
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: of a manosphere talk where she said, she's your wife,
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: is not your slaves, She's not your maid. You know,
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: this woman is very capable. Yeah, and she is. I
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: think the left might be end up being a little
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: dismayed that she she is not the handmaid that they.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Hope all of us are right right, Yeah, but wow,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I did so impressive.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: And despite the fact that Donald Trump spoke after her,
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: really the headline of the whole event. You know, it's
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: hard to outdo Trump, especially if he ends the night,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: if he's the final card. But she really nailed it.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: My kids watched with me, and I was unsure, like,
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: is that going to be too much? I let them
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: watch with me, and one of my kids just kept saying, preach.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: You know which one.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I feel like, I know which one and then one of.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: Them goes, Wow, she's awesome, and I was like, yeah, yeah,
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: she is, And I'm glad.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You get to watch her in this moment.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: And for me, obviously it's a little bit of like
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: communicating my story to them without getting into row, you know,
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: getting too close to it that.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: By the way, last week.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: Was the tenth anniversary of my husband his his passing,
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: So it's been odd to watch her do this, but
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: empowering to watch her do it and to be very
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: sure that she's very sure that God has things under control.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: You were my hero before that, but just watching you
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: after it really showed you in a beautiful new light.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And I think you've been amazing just the way you
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: have the way you've handled it with your kids, the
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: way you've handled it in public. You do have a
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: lot of eyes on you, and I think it's harder
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: than most people must realize.
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: Oh.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: I do want to thank you so much, and I
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: also want to throw in thank you to Usha Vance,
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: who had great advice for Erica Kirk where she said,
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: this is like the last fifteen minutes of a flight
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: with your kids, where you have no idea how you're
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: going to get through it. And everybody's losing it, but
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: you're going to get through this fifteen minutes and then
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: you're going to get through the next fifteen minutes. And
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: when you said that about me, it reminded me of
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: those days, those early days, And that is such good
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: advice for anyone going through a crisis, that yes, you
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: don't know how you're going to get through the giant thing,
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: but you will get through the next fifteen minutes.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: And I loved how she put that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Busha has been incredible. I thought j D's speech
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: was amazing. I thought Don Junior's speech was excellent. I
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: thought President Trump's speech was very, very, very good. Just
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: all around. I thought it was great.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: Can I say they're ragging on Trump a little bit
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: and I get it because she said I forgive my enemies.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And he's like, definitely, I definitely don't.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: But that's what you know, I don't want to be
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: like That's what I thought, also, like I don't. I
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: don't forgive my enemies.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: But okay, well, so what she was doing was like
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: super right, right, right, Oh, she's right.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: You know, we all go, Oh, I wish I could
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: do that. I want to be that. Yeah, it's very hard.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: He At first, I was like, look, Trump's going to
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: be Trump, right, So I knew that his speech was
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: not going to be Erica's speech. However, the part or
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: he says, I don't believe that about my enemies Charlie
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: would have. First of all, he's complimenting Charlie, which is
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: what you should do. Yeah, he's saying Charlie's a better
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: man than I, which is the thing you should do
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: at a memorial. He's complimenting Erica. He's being self deprecating
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: and saying I'm not this person. And he also says,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: notably at the end, he says, but Erica, you can
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: keep trying right to make me that person, which, actually, yeah,
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: I saw somebody I think it was a bulwark person
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: tweeted today these two things can't coexist, and I'm like, actually.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: They need to be literally coexists.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: They co exist, and Erica talking to Trump is probably
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: the closest.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: You get to turning that corner.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, that's what our movement is, in some sense, what
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: any movement is.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So the one miss of last night was obviously
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson. Look, I used to be a big Tucker fan,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: both both personally and professionally back when he was a conservative,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: whatever he is now, that's not a conservative. And I
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: think he's become really a leftist in so many ways.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, his top issue is anti Israel, but
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: what's his second issue? Like, there isn't one. Yeah, it's
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: just grievance all the way down. I don't even want
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: to give him kind of the attention that he so
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: badly craves with this, But we're going to play the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: clip just so you could hear the maniacal laughter at
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: the end and understand what the what kind of insanity
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: this man is fallen under.
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: Ultimately, he was a Christian evangelist, and it actually reminds
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: me of my favorite story ever. So it's about two
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: thousand years ago in Jerusalem and Jesus shows up and
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: he starts talking about the people in power, and he
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: starts doing the worst thing that you can do, which
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: is telling the truth about people. And they hate it,
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: and they just go bonkers. They hate it, and they
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: become obsessed with making him stop. This guy's got to
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: stop talking. We've got to shut this guy up. And
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: I can just sort of picture the scene in a
• 17:04
  Speaker 6: lamp lit room with a bunch of guys sitting around
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: eating hummus, thinking about what do we do about this
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: guy telling the truth about us. We must make him
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: stop talking. And there's always one guy with the bright idea,
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: and I can just hear him say I've got an idea.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Why don't we just kill him?
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: That'll shut him up, that'll fix the problem. It doesn't
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: work that way.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: That's weird.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And like, look, some people will be like, I
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: don't know, I didn't this is a dog whistle.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: That I don't hear.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: And look, I get that.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I'm looking to be fair to people.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, hummus eating Jerusalem residents sunds fairly noticeable to me.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: And he's been going down this path. And there is
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: an open fight over Kirk's legacy, which is a proxy
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: for the conservative movement on the issue of Israel and
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: anti Semitism. In Candice Owens notably, I also do not
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: want to give attention to is trying to hijack Charlie's
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: story and say that he was coming to different conclusions
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: and it made him dangerous. And that is something that
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: Tucker is implying here, right.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Right, He's not just implying that he's implying that it
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: might have been Jews who killed him too. Look, look,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I'm also you know, I hate the whole dog whistle thing,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: but the Nazis are real happy online today I came
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: across a whole nest of them on Instagram, where like
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Tucker said it, he said it, he said it out loud.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: He knew what he was doing. He's not sandis Al,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: He's not. Oh, he's real smart. He's a smart guy
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: who knows exactly what he's saying. Look from the doerst perspective,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: at least he admits that it was Jews in Jerusalem.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: You know, the line now is the Jews have never
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: been in Jerusalem. This is all you know. We just
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: got there. So yeah, look, you know, I don't want
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: to give too much attention, but yeah.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: Well I was gonna say to me that the laugh
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: is to tell because he's saying, look, I'm doing this
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: kind of like edgy thing, and he cracks up at
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: the end.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: You don't You don't crack up about Jesus being killed.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: No, you don't, right, But in this context, he realizes
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: he's saying something that's like he am I going to
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: get away with it, and that to me was the
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: moment that you go, oh, okay, I see what's going on.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: And look, he said many other sensible things in his eulogy,
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: but like, this is someone's.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Because he's a smart guy who's not going to just
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: give you a Jew hating speech at Charlie Kirk's memorial.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: He knows exactly what to do. So it's unfortunate. I'm
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: sad that he's gone down this path. I used to
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: really like him, and you know, well, now I just
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: see him for what he.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: Is well, And it's tough because you watch somebody who
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: I used to like as well in respect in many ways.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: And once you guys, you see figures who once they
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: latch on too anti Semitism as their sort of raisondetra.
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: It is in everything, and you can find it in everything,
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: and there's you know, of course, a nest of online
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: Nazis who will tell you that you're right about whatever,
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: whatever theory you want to bring to the table. And
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: it is it's hard to watch.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough, it really is, and you know, it's civilizationally,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: it goes the same way I aciety. If a society
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: grabs onto anti Semitism, that society collapses. It's just part
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: of a package of decline. And I hope that conservatives
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: don't follow Tucker down this path. I have to say,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: so far, they're not. Even with his massive audience. Conservatives
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: remain barely saying on Jews, barely saying on Israel. Could
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: it all change? Of course it could, and obviously conservative
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Jews like me are worried about his influence. But for
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: now he is a periphery. He is the fringe.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, and I think the rest of that service,
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: because there were many words said, reflects the fact that
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: this is such a small part of it.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Nonetheless disappointing to see in that. Absolutely.
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: I know we're taking up your time with this podcast.
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: Takes some of your time, and watch the entire Erica kirkspeech.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: I think you will see a generational force in our
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: not just politics, but in our culture emerging on that stage.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more on Normally. Welcome back
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: to Normally. Where the left is taking the Charlie Kirk
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: assassination in a totally new direction, which is obviously very bizarre.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: They've become free speech absolutists with the Jimmy Kimmel firing,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: but beyond that. For example, yesterday Destiny, the omni liberal
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: who was once considered the sane liberal that conservatives should
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: be having debates with, said this Charlie memorial is indistinguishable
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: from a Nazi rally, and fuck anyone who wants to
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: pretend it's not. And Eric Ericksson retweeted that and said,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: the rally in which a widow forgave her husband's assassin.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: They really, in so many ways have lost the plot
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: with this. What's been going on with the Jimmy Kimmel firing,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: It's bananas to me. He lied about who the shooter was.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: His bosses asked him to apologize, he refused, and now
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: he is suspended. That is an insane chain of events
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: to defend and to pretend that something about free speech
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: was going on here.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he obviously lied.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: This is where I'm going to be easier than you
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: on the on the free speech the brand News for
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: free speech brigades, because I do think that Brendan Carr
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: should have shut his mouth.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Listen, if you.
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: Had shut his mouth, this man would have been out
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: of a job within a week and a half. Anyway, Arguably,
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: he might be ready erected because of Brendan Carr making
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: these implications and threats on the same day as ABC
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: had decided to deal with him disciplinarily right, and like
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: just just don't, just don't don't.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Also just the fact that it seemed like ABC was
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: using this as an excuse. I mean, he has said
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: vile things in the past, I mean really truly disgusting.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: He blamed Republican politicians for school shootings, and then when
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: there was an outcry the next day, he was like,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I think that all your Republican voters are mad about
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: this because you know you're responsible too. He made sure
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: to draw the distinction between politicians and the voters and saying,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: if you vote Republican, you're responsible for school shootings. He's
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I never found him funny. I thought he was deeply
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: divisive and just lacked any humor whatsoever. Give that job
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: to date, Brigetzi watch the gratings.
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: Go out, and here's the thing is that, like, first
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: of all, I think they're full of the news free
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: speech folks. Obviously I actually agree with them about Carr
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: and also their enthusiasm for the cause of a millionaire
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: late night host versus the father of two, who was
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: shot through the neck for debating on campus, is very noticeable.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: And my friend Jessica Tarloff, who I respect and enjoyed
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: debating with on Fox, said to a New York Times writer,
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: I believe today that like, it's not fair to say
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: that they care more about.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Kimmel than they do about Kirk. And I'm like, I
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: think it is. Yeah, I think it is.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: And I noticed actually in several of the former Republicans
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: who became democrats' post Trump era, I followed all their
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: instagrams from like back in the day, and it was
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: no mention of Charlie.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Several posts about Kimmel.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: So look, I don't want to do the bean counting
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: all the time, but it was quite noticeable. And this
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: is the media has been so used to designating who
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: the correct victim is for so long, and they were
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: very uncomfortable with the idea of Charlie being a victim,
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: just as they were uncomfortable with the idea of Congressional
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: Republicans being victims when they were shot at in twenty seventeen.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: And they wanted to move on another reason that like, morally,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: I think it's wrong for the government to be job
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: owning people, but strategically wrong because you've made him into
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: this thing that he really wasn't right.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: But I agree with you obviously, I think Carr shouldn't
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: have said anything and let this all play out. But
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: they're totally using this as an excuse.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did not.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Believe them at all. I did not believe them that
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: they really think that the FCC was going to shut
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: down Jimmy Kimmel. No, Jimmy Kimmel upset his bosses. Everybody
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: knows how that goes. You know, when I teach my
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: kids about free speech, I tell them it doesn't include
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: telling your boss he's ugly. So like, that's how it goes.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: We can't live in a world where cancel culture is
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: like there is no point at which anyone is ever fired. Right,
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: Only lefties can do whatever they want, including wishing death
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: upon their neighbors broadcast on the internet, and they can
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: remain nurses and doctors and teachers like that.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: That does end up being a problem.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: I would also like to note that while watching this
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: service and in consuming all of the vigils and all
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: that stuff that's happened in the twelve days since Charlie
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: Kirk's murder. I have heard endlessly about the foreboding nature
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: of the rights reaction to all of this, and yet
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: I just want to go through the actual facts real quick,
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: which is that the number of arrests that have happened
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: that have been ostensibly related to this have been a
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: vandalism in Arizona that was on a Charlie Kirk memorial
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: and an assault in Texas that was on a Charlie
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: Kirk mourner. The attempted bombing of a Fox News truck
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: by two men in Utah whose names were left out
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: of the coverage because it was very obvious that they
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: will of Middle Eastern descent, and so that was left
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: out of coverage. Now we have an ABC affiliate shot
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: up in California by a man who, by all accounts
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: and including his own online accounts, is a very develout
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: lefty who was mad at ABC about Jimmy Kimmel. Yeah,
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: and so I keep being told that we're dangerous, but
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: all the arrestable offenses from the left up on their
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: side of the ledger.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: And by the way, some people are doing really hard
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: work going through the actual studies of political violence and
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: just debunking so many of them.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: The data is just off the charts.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Bat Yeah. And the corresponding data to this is that
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: only ten percent of Democrats believe that Kirk's murder was
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: left wing. That's bananas. You live in a bubble that
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: is feeding you misinformation. And I don't know how to
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: get through these people. I really don't know. I have
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: British friends. I had an English friend who posted about Kimmel.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I'm like, do you know what's going on in your country? Like,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: you know the stories we get about you guys, Kimmel.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: You know amazing.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: I also want I wanted to read one quick tweet
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: reflecting on the memorial, and he does it in a
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: nice way.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: But this is a left of center person.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: He says, watching the Charlie Kirk memorial, I'm struck by
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: how extremely culturally distant I feel from this world. Everything
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: about it feels alien. The aesthetics, symbolism, music, rituals, mythology, gurus,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: ideas and norms. It feels like being exposed to the
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: cultural and symbolic universe of a distant tribe. If I
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: reflect on this, it occurs to me that this feeling
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: must be symmetrical, that they must view the kind of
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: cultural universe I inhabit as similarly.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Alien in a strange way.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: Despite opposing almost everything about this political project, this reflection
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: makes me feel more empathy for what that project must
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: feel like from the inside. He's a philosopher University of Sussex,
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: And no, it's not symmetrical at all.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: We know all about you.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time with you guys.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys won't shut up about it.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: The cultural norms are forced upon us all the time. Hilarious,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: he doesn't know that in his head.
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: Also, I find it so interesting that, yes, this was
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: a very specifically I think a little bit evangelical, megachurchy
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: feeling event and the pyrotechnics some people took issue with,
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: but obviously those were Charlie's kind of signature at these
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: events and so they wanted to.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: It's also a joyous event.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: It was supposed to be a celebration, which I know
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: can be jarring for people as well, but that's like
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: how the thing is done. It's interesting to me that
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: you would watch that and go this is weird, en off, putting,
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: in bad and the things these people are saying are ichy.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: I really that one I have trouble. Yeah, I can't
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: put myself in your shoes.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Right, not at all. How are the lefties doing with
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: all this? I mean their poll numbers must be going up, right.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: More, coming up unnormally.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: But first, it was nearly two years ago that terrorists
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: murdered more than twelve hundred innocent Israelis and took two
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: hundred and fifty hostages.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Today it seems as if the cries of.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: The dead and dying had been drowned out by shouts
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: of anti Semitic hatred and the most brutal attack on
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: Jewish people since the Holocaust has been forgotten.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: It is the world looks away, a light shines in
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: the darkness.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: It's a movement of love and support for the people
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: of Israel called Flags of Fellowship, and it's organized by
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And on October fifth,
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: just a few weeks away, millions across America will prayerfully
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: plant an Israeli flag and honor and solidarity with the
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: victims of October seventh, twenty twenty three and their grieving families.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: And now you can be part of this movement too,
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: And I know you guys will want to get involved,
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: to get more information about how you can join the
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: Flags of Fellowship movement, visit the Fellowship online at IFCJ
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: dot org.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: That's if CJ dot org. We're back. But normally right
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: after this.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: We've talked a lot about the alleged Normy saviors running
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: for governorship gubernatorial races in the Democratic Party. So Mikey Cheryl,
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: a representative, is running up in New Jersey against Jack Chitdarelli.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: I believe this is that's how I say this last name.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: And then in Virginia we have a former representative Democrat,
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: Abigail Spamberger versus Winsome Seres, who is the Lieutenant governor
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: of Virginia. That's been kind of a hot race because
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of controversies going on in Northern Virginia schools.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: But Mikey Cheryl's getting some exposure lately as well. And
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: she was on the Breakfast Club with Charlemagne, who, although
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: I disagree with him on a thousand things to me,
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: is one of the more interesting people who interviews politicians.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he does not fit the lines.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: He comes with them with unexpected stuff and he came
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: at Mikey Cheryl asking her about how she really amped
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: up her her worth while she was in Comnetre's here's
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: the question in her response, So.
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: When news max claimed that you made seven million dollars
• 32:25
  Speaker 7: from stock trades, what are you talking about?
• 32:29
  Speaker 8: News Max is, first of all a very questionable organization
• 32:32
  Speaker 8: that is paying multiple fines. I'm not sure what they're
• 32:36
  Speaker 8: talking about.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Well, did you make seven million in stock trades at all?
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I I haven't. I don't believe I did.
• 32:45
  Speaker 8: But I'd have to go see what what that was
• 32:48
  Speaker 8: alluding to again, what kind of came from?
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't know.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: She loved not impressive.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Not impressive.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: Chita really also went after her on this on stage
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: at a debate, and she was similarly sort of caught
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: off guard and didn't really have an answer for it.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: These are basic things.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really, New Jersey and Virginia. I just hope that
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: they do the right thing. These are two states where
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I just feel like so many people are trying to
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: vote themselves to sanity and they just have people holding
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: them back.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: Now, it's going to take work because these are purplish
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: to blue states.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: They just are.
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: Virginia in particular, has a lot of federal employees here
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: ticked off at doge who are energized. Spamberger is a
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: decent dish candidate, has been in the past one in
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: a swing district. But here she is finally getting asked
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: by Nick Monok, the local ABC affiliate reporter in Northern Virginia,
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: the tough question, the tough question about how she feels
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: about the gender policies that allowed a fifty something sex
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: offender to expose themselves multiple times to women in high
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: school bathrooms in Arlington Public schools. Whether she thinks those
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: policies are an issue and should be changed.
• 34:03
  Speaker 7: Can you tell us directly, do you support biological males
• 34:07
  Speaker 7: who say they're women using women's locker rooms and bathrooms
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: and competing the women's sports.
• 34:13
  Speaker 9: Well, the circumstance as this legal case plays out is
• 34:16
  Speaker 9: really one of we've had court cases settled or judged
• 34:21
  Speaker 9: here in Virginia in the fourth District, the former Gavin
• 34:25
  Speaker 9: Grim case related to bathroom usage, and in fact, the
• 34:29
  Speaker 9: argument is the assessment is there needs to be much
• 34:32
  Speaker 9: clearer guidance in terms of what is an executive orders
• 34:35
  Speaker 9: binding assessment of Title nind versus what has been a
• 34:40
  Speaker 9: decision of a court.
• 34:41
  Speaker 7: But do you personally support these policies. You personally support them, everybody,
• 34:46
  Speaker 7: can you support these locker room or bathroom policies? Congresswomen?
• 34:49
  Speaker 7: Why can't you answer this question directly? Let's go congresswomen.
• 34:56
  Speaker 7: Congresse women, do you support these bathroom and locker rooms?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you?
• 35:00
  Speaker 7: Why can't you answer these questions directly?
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: She ran away, Carol Sharan way, how could you be
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: not prepared for that?
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: This is like the number one thing. By the way,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: this is.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Again, this is they don't know anything about us.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Like Also, they don't get asked tough questions very often.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: She gets asked.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: I think she got asked recently how to make her
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: banana bread recipe, like it's very light stuffed. Yeah, enocus
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: somebody who does have tough questions for Democratic candidates, He
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: asks her several times.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: She refuses to answer.
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: I ask you once again, how are they supposed to
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: be the normy saviors If they can't come out on
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: the eighty percent side of an eighty twenty issue, they.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Can't be and they shouldn't be. So Harry Aton had
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: some numbers and he sees things going not super great
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: for the Democrats and the midterms. He says, Republicans lead
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: by seven on the economy, lead by thirteen on immigration,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: and on crime twenty two points. So yeah, look, I
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: want the Democrats to lose, but I also want a
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: normal country and I want them to be more normal.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: And I don't know how they learned that lesson unless
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: they lose repeatedly on the issues that normal people care about.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Crime is an issue that it doesn't matter if you're
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: a Republican or Democrat, you should be against crime. And
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: the Democrats have found themselves defending criminals and saying crime
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: is not that bad. So if they can get to
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: a place of sanity, that would be ideal.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: I think one of my concerns is that Virginia is
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: purple enough that she'll pull this off.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: And I yeah, it doesn't have to be the case.
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: The Winsome Sears campaign is working really hard, capitalized on
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: a bunch of stuff. But if they win that way
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: without her conceding on immigration, crime or gender issues, they're
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: going to continue to spin out.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: They're just I wouldn't adopting this approach, I think will No.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: It's not thanks for joining us on normally, I'm actually
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: going to read a Charlie Kirk tweet that went viral
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: again this weekend because I think it really sums up
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: what we all should be doing. Get married, have children,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: build a legacy, pass down your values, pursue the eternal,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: seek true joy. Eventually we will replace the nihilists. Thanks
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: for listening.