Latest / LifeAudio / Faith Over Fear - How to Experience God's Presence When You Feel a Mess (ft. Stasi Eldredge)

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Faith Over Fear - How to Experience God's Presence When You Feel a Mess (ft. Stasi Eldredge) · LifeAudio

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life audio. I'm in pain. I'm here again and you
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: haven't shown up yet. And it's been a number of
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: years in this thing, but I'm going to come to
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: you again with hope.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Faith Over Fear podcast, where we discuss
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear, big and small.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I'm Jennifer Slattery, and I've had seasons where God felt
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  Speaker 2: painfully distant, and I know how it feels to look
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: around and think everyone else has a depth of connection
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: with Christ that somehow evade you no matter how much
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  Speaker 2: you pray, read scripture, or seek him. And I know
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  Speaker 2: how easily shame and self-condemnation can fill that confusing space.
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  Speaker 2: But I also know the joy on the other side
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  Speaker 2: of perseverance when we keep reaching for God as best
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: as we're able. And he slowly but steadily heals the
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: wounds and removes the barriers that hinder the relational bond
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: we crave. And my guest today, Stacey Eldridge, author of
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: The Ladder of Love and numerous other titles. knows this
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  Speaker 2: topic well. And today she's sharing practical ways we can
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  Speaker 2: move from knowing about God to experiencing him deep in
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  Speaker 2: our souls and receiving the love that makes us feel
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  Speaker 2: vibrantly alive, even in hard circumstances. Stacey, thank you so
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: much for joining us.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Jennifer, it's my delight to be here with you and
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  Speaker 1: with the listeners. Yes, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I want to start by saying your book
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: is profound.
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  Speaker 1: You went deep.
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  Speaker 2: And reading your story, first of all, I really appreciated
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: your vulnerability, your authenticity. And I sensed as I was
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: reading your story that Receiving God's love hasn't always been
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  Speaker 2: easy for you and that some of that might have
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  Speaker 2: connected to emotional wounds that you experienced in your past.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Would you say that's accurate?
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  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. And I think that's true for everyone because
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  Speaker 1: no one gets through this life unscathed.
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  Speaker 2: I would love to hear more about your journey of
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  Speaker 2: going from knowing about God to having this really deep,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: intimate relationship with him.
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  Speaker 1: That's good. The real shift happened for me about 30
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: years ago. I was a sincere follower of Christ. I
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  Speaker 1: was going to church and women's Bible study and doing
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  Speaker 1: Bible study and volunteering in the church and doing what
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  Speaker 1: you know to do, to press in and to know
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  Speaker 1: and to live the life that you want that's pleasing
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  Speaker 1: to him. But I was so... dissatisfied. I had this
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: feeling like there was more available and I was hungry
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  Speaker 1: for it and I didn't know how to get it.
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  Speaker 1: And this is a season when I have small children,
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  Speaker 1: three young boys at home. I worked part-time, but mostly
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I was home with them. And this one particular day,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: this was one of the days where John got home
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: from work and I met him on the doorstep and said, tag,
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  Speaker 1: you're it.
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  Speaker 2: I'm out.
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  Speaker 1: And it was winter. So it was dark, And I
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: just went for a walk. I live in Colorado and
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  Speaker 1: it was a cold, crisp night, lots of stars. And
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  Speaker 1: I was in a low place. I had been a
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  Speaker 1: lousy mother. And it's not that I was feeling like
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  Speaker 1: a lousy mother. I had failed. I had failed my
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  Speaker 1: children that day. I had not loved them well. I
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  Speaker 1: had lost my temper. I needed them basically to be
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  Speaker 1: quiet and sit still, which is not what boys do.
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  Speaker 1: And then I wasn't feeling very excited about my husband
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  Speaker 1: coming home either. So I was just not.
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  Speaker 2: Really hurting, it sounds like.
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  Speaker 1: I was really hurting. I didn't have the capacity. I
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  Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to
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  Speaker 1: do with the pain. But I was also in that place,
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  Speaker 1: as you said, keeping shame upon myself and then also
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  Speaker 1: feeling bad for feeling bad. And then foot for walk,
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  Speaker 1: just get me out of here. You don't want me
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  Speaker 1: home and I don't want to be home. So I'm
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  Speaker 1: on this walk and I'm just beginning to breathe. And
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  Speaker 1: it's a gorgeous night. And so my heart lifted just
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  Speaker 1: in the beauty. And I looked up at these stars
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  Speaker 1: and said, Good job, God. Well done on the stars.
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  Speaker 1: You did a nice, nice work there. And I heard
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  Speaker 1: him say, and this is the first time I ever
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  Speaker 1: heard in my spirit, what was God say, I'm glad
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  Speaker 1: you like it, my darling.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: I heard this. I'm glad you like it, my darling.
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  Speaker 1: So here I hear, and I know it's, I think
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  Speaker 1: it's God, because I'm actually not quite sure if it's
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  Speaker 1: okay that he called me my darling. Like, is that
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  Speaker 1: all right? And then also- wait, you're going to call
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  Speaker 1: me an endearing name in the midst of what we
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  Speaker 1: both know is not a stellar moment or stellar season
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  Speaker 1: of my life. So I ended that walk kind of
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  Speaker 1: just undone by that, went home and was my habit.
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  Speaker 1: And that season, it was just reading some scripture right
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  Speaker 1: before bed. So I reached for my Bible, opened it
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: up anywhere. And it was the song of songs where
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  Speaker 1: it said, how beautiful you are, my darling. And so
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  Speaker 1: I knew in that moment, that was God. And that
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  Speaker 1: God wasn't rejecting me. He wasn't naming me a failure
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  Speaker 1: just because I was failing. He was still relating to
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  Speaker 1: me as his beloved one. And that's who I was,
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  Speaker 1: regardless of the moment or the season or the sorrow.
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  Speaker 1: That shifted things. That made me really also look into
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  Speaker 1: the word beloved because I just thought, I didn't know
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  Speaker 1: what it meant. I thought it was a word that
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  Speaker 1: you used at weddings, honestly. And then to go, no, no, wait,
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  Speaker 1: beloved means dearly loved. It's cherished. It's almost sweethearts. And
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  Speaker 1: to learn in the scriptures, no, he calls me that.
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  Speaker 1: He calls you that. He calls the believers, the body
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  Speaker 1: of Christ, they are his beloved. And so I wanted
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  Speaker 1: and needed to know, well, what does that mean? What
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  Speaker 1: does it mean more to rest in the reality that
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  Speaker 1: regardless of my behavior, or circumstances or sorrow, I am
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  Speaker 1: the beloved of God. And so I did. And I
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  Speaker 1: began to pursue that and to pursue knowing him like that.
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  Speaker 1: And that is what changed everything for me.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sitting and listening to your story of all times
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  Speaker 2: for him to speak to you. And really, you said
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  Speaker 2: you were having all this shame. What a counter to that.
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  Speaker 2: I know it was a journey. Because I've read your book.
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  Speaker 2: I know it was a journey of really getting to
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  Speaker 2: know him and experiencing him on this deep, intimate level.
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  Speaker 2: In that moment, though, did you come home a little
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  Speaker 2: different because of that encounter?
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  Speaker 1: I did. I was almost blushing. If this is true,
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  Speaker 1: this is a God I haven't known. I honor God.
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  Speaker 1: He is holy, is high and lifted up. But a
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  Speaker 1: God that would speak to me so tenderly and personally
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  Speaker 1: is not the God that I had a relationship with.
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  Speaker 1: And to hear that, it really ended me to know
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  Speaker 1: that in that moment, I was excelling. I had just
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: led someone to Christ. I had just done some amazing thing.
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  Speaker 1: And now I'm your, you know, now you love me.
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  Speaker 1: But in the midst of the nitty gritty, in the
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  Speaker 1: mud of life, You called me darling. Say what? I
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  Speaker 1: need to know more. I need to know more about
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  Speaker 1: this love because if that's true and it did, it
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  Speaker 1: is true. It began to let other weights come off
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  Speaker 1: and shackles come off and pressure that I was putting
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  Speaker 1: on myself to get it right in order to be
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  Speaker 1: loved rather than resting in the reality that I am
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  Speaker 1: profoundly loved and that actually nothing I do can change that.
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  Speaker 1: And to begin to really let that travel from my
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  Speaker 1: head to my heart, saturate myself, marinate myself in his love,
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  Speaker 1: meditate on his love, and let that begin to do
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  Speaker 1: its transforming work inside. It rocked my world.
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  Speaker 2: I think so many of us, we might know intellectually,
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  Speaker 2: like we read the scriptures, right? I have loved you
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  Speaker 2: with an everlasting love and for God so loved the world.
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  Speaker 2: He gave his only son and.
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  Speaker 1: All the things.
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  Speaker 2: But I think it's pretty, from my perspective, it's pretty...
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  Speaker 2: common for there to be this disconnect between what we
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  Speaker 2: know in our head. And like you said, marinating, soaking
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  Speaker 2: it in. I love your imagery there. So what are
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  Speaker 2: some reasons maybe for our listeners who are like, you
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  Speaker 2: know what? I just feel really distant. What's going on here?
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  Speaker 2: What might be some reasons?
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  Speaker 1: Oh, there's all kinds of reasons. First is just, we've
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  Speaker 1: learned him wrong and we need to learn him rightly.
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  Speaker 1: For one thing, we can listen to those verses and think,
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  Speaker 1: oh yeah, God loves me. Well, he kind of, that's
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  Speaker 1: who he is. It's kind of his job. That's what
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  Speaker 1: he does without being able to make the transition to,
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  Speaker 1: you know, he loves me. He loves me. How about this?
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  Speaker 1: He likes me. Oh, yes, yes, yes. And then there's
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  Speaker 1: different aspects of knowing God. Many, many people come to
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  Speaker 1: know God and pray, God, our father. For me, my
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  Speaker 1: relationship with the Trinity came through Jesus. I always prayed
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  Speaker 1: to Jesus. It was a while to learn God as
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  Speaker 1: my father, but that was because of my own broken
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: relationship with my dad. You know, you've talked about how
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  Speaker 1: we learn who God our father is through a relationship
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  Speaker 1: with our dad for good or ill. And what I
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  Speaker 1: needed to do is to have that unearthed, have God
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  Speaker 1: Pull back the curtain on what was I believing about
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  Speaker 1: what he was like. Nobody had a perfect dad. I didn't.
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  Speaker 1: Nobody did. So everybody got wounded there. And for most
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  Speaker 1: of us, it couldn't be in a place of performance.
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  Speaker 1: I will love you if, and I will love you when.
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  Speaker 1: That's kind of.
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  Speaker 2: Our world, right? That's what we encounter. It is. is.
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  Speaker 1: It is our world. Do this. Meet these standards. Weigh this.
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  Speaker 1: Look like this. Perform in this way. Believe this. Then
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  Speaker 1: you are worthy of love. And so I need it.
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  Speaker 1: And we all need a different aspects of our relationship.
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  Speaker 1: And to do an excavation in our hearts. And in
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: our stories of love, what we have learned love is,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: is love trustworthy or is love painful? Is love beautiful
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  Speaker 1: or is it risky beyond taking the risk for? So
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  Speaker 1: there's not a person alive that is not in some
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  Speaker 1: place of the journey, which is increasing throughout our lives
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  Speaker 1: of needing more healing. and revelation of who God truly
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  Speaker 1: is as the lover of our souls, as the love
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  Speaker 1: of our life. And to know that he not only
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  Speaker 1: loves us, he not only knows us, but he wants
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  Speaker 1: us to know him. He wants us to be captured
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  Speaker 1: by him. I mean, he tells us, Jesus says, what's
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  Speaker 1: the first and greatest commandment? He says, love me. That's
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  Speaker 1: what I want. I want you to love me. And
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  Speaker 1: he does.
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  Speaker 2: When you say it that way, that's actually... Like just
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  Speaker 2: makes you pause, right? That God, the son out of
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  Speaker 2: all the things he wants is our love in return.
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  Speaker 2: Go on that. That just, wow. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: He's so vulnerable with us. And that this God of
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  Speaker 1: the universe would, we are made in his image. We
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  Speaker 1: desire to be loved. We desire to be known. That
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  Speaker 1: makes sense that that's what he wants to. That's the
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  Speaker 1: one thing we can give him without him just claiming
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  Speaker 1: it on his own. And he won't claim it unless
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  Speaker 1: we freely offer it. And then. Oh, the joy that
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  Speaker 1: we bring him. It's that journey of getting to know him.
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  Speaker 1: Like you would get to know you're a good friend.
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  Speaker 1: Or if you're married, like you would know your spouse.
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  Speaker 1: It's not just, here's an example, knowing about the ocean.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe you live in Kansas. That's where I grew up.
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  Speaker 1: And I read about the ocean.
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  Speaker 2: I'm actually in Nebraska right now.
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  Speaker 1: Nebraska, right.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: So I would read about the ocean. I saw pictures
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: of the ocean. I knew a lot about the ocean.
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  Speaker 1: But then we visited California and I got in the ocean.
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  Speaker 1: One's the head knowledge and the other is the experiential knowledge.
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  Speaker 1: One was interesting. The other was life transforming. So that's
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  Speaker 1: the invitation from God. He asks us to yada him
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  Speaker 1: in Hebrew or to gnosis him in the Greek. And
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  Speaker 1: what it means is an experiential knowing, a deep personal knowing. relational,
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  Speaker 1: mutual shared knowing of one another.
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  Speaker 2: Sometimes there can be, we may not recognize that we
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: have these barriers in our soul. Like they might be
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  Speaker 2: a little subconscious or buried down or intellectualized out of
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  Speaker 2: the way, I guess, out of our awareness. But I
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: think sometimes when we've been hurt, almost instinctively, we can
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  Speaker 2: create these self-protective barriers. How often does that impact our
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  Speaker 2: relationship with God?
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  Speaker 1: All the time. And you think about a sea anemone
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  Speaker 1: or those creatures that you touch and they just pull back. Well,
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  Speaker 1: of course you do. You put your hand into a flame,
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  Speaker 1: you pull it back and you know, you're not going
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  Speaker 1: to do that again. Especially when we're young, we learn
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  Speaker 1: self-protective strategies to keep us from being harmed once again.
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  Speaker 1: And when we're young, that's smart. You need that. But
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  Speaker 1: as we grow up, we're not a child anymore and
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  Speaker 1: we can begin to grow up and learn things that
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  Speaker 1: that's self-protective strategy works for me. Then it's actually hurting
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  Speaker 1: me now. It's actually hindering me now. God is so
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  Speaker 1: gentle and kind and merciful with us. I think if
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: he showed us everything at once, we would be on
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  Speaker 1: the floor, not able to get up. But step by gentle,
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  Speaker 1: tender step, the scriptures say, draw close to God and
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  Speaker 1: he will draw close to you. When we respond to
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  Speaker 1: his invitation and we invite him in more and more,
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  Speaker 1: incremental step, faith by faith step, He will reveal those
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  Speaker 1: things to us and he will reveal himself to us.
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  Speaker 1: And he will ask us just as he does in
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  Speaker 1: Revelations 3.20 when he's knocking at our door. I'm knocking,
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  Speaker 1: invite me in. And that book, as you know, is
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  Speaker 1: written to Christians. So there are places that we have
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  Speaker 1: shut him out. Like do not enter sign is on
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  Speaker 1: our door. He's knocking because he wants to come in.
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  Speaker 1: He wants to bring healing. and freedom to us. He
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  Speaker 1: wants to reveal himself to us. That's why Jesus came.
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  Speaker 1: That's what the Holy Spirit is all about. Let me
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  Speaker 1: show you who Jesus is and how profoundly, deeply, unchangeably,
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  Speaker 1: immeasurably loved you are in this moment. And let me
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  Speaker 1: come into your story, your story of love, your story
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  Speaker 1: of pain, your holy story, and help not only heal it,
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  Speaker 1: but to rewrite it in the light of my love
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  Speaker 1: for you. He wants to do that. So it's really gentle.
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  Speaker 1: It just begins with wherever he is knocking, whatever area
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  Speaker 1: he's stirring up and to say, yeah, come on in here.
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  Speaker 1: I need you here. And he will come.
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  Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about the tension
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  Speaker 2: as someone who's just beginning, right? And they're trying to
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  Speaker 2: open themselves up to the Lord and to this new
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  Speaker 2: way of relating and experiencing this deep intimacy, this deep love.
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  Speaker 2: It might feel uncomfortable, right? So what would you say
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  Speaker 2: to the one who's like, they're kind of still in
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  Speaker 2: that messy middle. Like I'm reaching for God. I got
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: this shame. I got this guilt. I got all these
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: doubts and deception. I don't know what to do with,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: but I'm just trying to come. And I feel like
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I am just coming undone. What would you say to
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: them in that messy middle?
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  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, just mercy. God is tender and slow. And
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I think of a dear friend of mine who suffered
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: severe sexual abuse as a child. So the word intimacy
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: is terrifying to her. And to come close to God
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  Speaker 1: feels like the last thing she wants to do. So
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  Speaker 1: one of the first things just to say is intimacy
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  Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the physicality. This is a soul,
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  Speaker 1: a spiritual closeness. It has to do with the proximity
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  Speaker 1: of a heart to heart connection. And then to know
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  Speaker 1: that our God understands our story more than we do.
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  Speaker 1: He is merciful. He is compassionate. He grieves even what
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  Speaker 1: we haven't yet been able to grieve. So I think
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  Speaker 1: what I would start with is just that. No, you're okay.
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  Speaker 1: You're okay. Actually, you need to go through this process
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  Speaker 1: of not wanting to, of anger, of grief. You need
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: tears shed on your own behalf. And in it, how
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: beautiful that you are reading the word of God. How
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: fabulous that you are in the scriptures. You can hold
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: on to that. And then what I would encourage people
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: beginning is to ask them, when you pray to God,
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  Speaker 1: where are you praying? Are you praying to the God
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  Speaker 1: up in the heavens? Or are you praying to the
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  Speaker 1: God who has made his residence within your heart? Jesus
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  Speaker 1: is in our hearts through faith. So when we are
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: communing with God and we are praying, the practice is
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  Speaker 1: actually to sink in and commune with him. He already is.
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  Speaker 1: He's already closer than our breath. And to begin to
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  Speaker 1: take the time to pause to maybe you have 10 minutes,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: maybe even an hour, but to get quiet and to
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  Speaker 1: ask Holy Spirit to help you connect with Jesus inside
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  Speaker 1: of you. That would be the beginning.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So what, moving forward a little bit, what does
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: vulnerability with God look like?
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  Speaker 1: Such a good question. I think when you're moving towards
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: relationship towards anyone, there's risk involved. But vulnerability with God
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  Speaker 1: does take the risk again. But it also takes the
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  Speaker 1: rebirth of hope that you dare to risk again. And
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: what you're risking is being honest with him, coming to
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  Speaker 1: him with your authentic self. It's true. He already knows
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: everything anyway. But just with other people, we want to
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: show our best face. We can do that with him.
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  Speaker 1: This area, maybe it's in our parenting. Maybe it's in
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: our friendships. Maybe it's even our work life. You are
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: not invited here. I'm doing fine right here. So the
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: vulnerability comes with risking opening up that area of your
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: life and go, I'm going to invite you to get
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: your hands on this. You can come in. One of
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the stories I love is from Mark 5 with the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: woman with the issue of blood.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: She is.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: seen every doctor, spent every dime, done every treatment, none
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of it is working. But in her risk and her
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: vulnerability to illegally come and press through the crowd to
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: just touch Jesus's garment for healing, and she does it,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: she falls at his feet and the scriptures say, she
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: tells him her whole story. Other versions, she tells him
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: her whole truth. She comes to him with everything she
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: is as a woman, with everything she is not, with
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: that vulnerability and risk to go, I'm going to trust
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: that here I'm failing, here I'm soaring, here I'm a mess,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to risk believing that you're not going
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: to reject me. And he doesn't. In fact, because of
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: her faith, she is healed. He calls her my daughter.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: He recognizes her as one of his own. So the
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: vulnerability to say, I'm in pain, I'm here again, and
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: you haven't shown up yet. And it's been a number
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: of years in this thing, but I'm going to come
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: to you again with hope. That's incredibly vulnerable and vulnerability
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: is beautiful.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. How long would you say it took you? So
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: you mentioned this was 30 years ago. Yeah. What did
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: that process look like for you as you went through this? Okay,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: I heard God, he got my attention. He kind of
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: shook my world to where you're at now. What I
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: sense reading your content and from what I know about
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: both you and your husband, actually, that this really deep
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: relationship that you have with him now. So what was
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: that journey like for you? And as you talk about
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: the journey, I want to hear a little bit about
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: the struggle because what I want the listener to hear is,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Is when they are in the middle of the struggle
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: and they're like, it's not working for me. Something's wrong
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: with me.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: I can't do this. Well, that story I told is
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: 30 years old and it's still profound in my life.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: In all of our relationships, friendships, and with God, there
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: is an ebb and flow. I remember that having that
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: time and thinking, this is it now. This is my
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: relationship with God. I'm going to hear his voice. He's
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: going to sweetly whisper into my ear for the rest
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: of my days. And I did have a beautiful season
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: of that. In that moment, I did have a time
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: of just relishing his love. And I started hearing about,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: for me, a woman who was doing a teaching in
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: her home where she was talking about intimacy with Jesus
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: and actually ministering to his heart. And worshiping him is
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: the highest thing. She would like pray for people and
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: they would be real things. And she would see and like,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: what is happening? I don't know about this realm of Christianity.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: And I'm so desperately hungry for it. So that was
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: one of the things that propelled me. I found her
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: and had a time of worship at her house. And
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: in this time of worship, I saw in my imagination,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: I saw Jesus and I saw him come to me.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: That was brand new. And we did an exchange of hearts.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: He gave me his heart. I gave him mine. And
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I went, what? I can see Jesus. I can love him.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I can encounter him through worshiping him. So worshiping him
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: became a priority of my life. And I created a
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: space where I would worship him. I would sit at
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: least an hour every day. I had young children, so
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: we would exchange babysitting once a week so I could
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: have a three-hour window. It was amazing. And it lasted days.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: For a long, months, it lasted months. I had another
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: season in 2019 where I had a lot of space
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: and just pursued him and needing to know him more
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: and wanting to experience him, wanting to feel his presence,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: wanting to see him with my sanctified imagination, wanting to
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: hear his voice. And I had a lot of time
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: to do that. And he came profoundly. And then I thought,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: this is it now. This is the rest of my life.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: This is what is going to be with Jesus every
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: single day. And then it wasn't. And then I went
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to meet with him in my place where I would
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: meet with him throughout my life, different seasons. And I
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: didn't sense him. I didn't feel him. I couldn't hear him.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: And so the first thing I would think was I'm
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: doing something wrong. What am I doing wrong? There's some
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: unconfessed sin in my life. Whereas it's a relationship and
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: there's ebbs and flows and he's growing us up. He's
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: maturing us. So even through those seasons to still keep
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: that time sacred, spending time reading scriptures, marinating, having times
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: of prayer and developing a conversational intimacy, a union with God,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: doing the steps, practicing the spiritual disciplines that are a
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: great gift to us, even in the midst and waiting.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: You know, I miss you, God. I miss you. I
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: want to feel you. I want to drive and reach
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: over and feel like I'm holding your hand. And sometimes
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: there are seasons when that is real and true. And
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: sometimes there are seasons when when that's not. But then
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: to the deepening of our faith to know that our
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: God promises based on his word that he will never
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: leave us or forsake us. He will never go away.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: He's up to something else in our souls. He's always working,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: even in seasons of such sorrow and pain where we
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: don't know where he is or why he is allowing
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: something to happen or have happened. To be clinging to
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: God and asking for him to come. There is a deep,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: transformational work that is happening in us. Nothing is for nothing.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: No tear is wasted. None of it.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Can you talk to me a little bit and we
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: need to, we're kind of coming up on time, but
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: you mentioned a fear I hear a lot. I hear so,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: so often is I did nothing. something wrong. And I
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: think the way we conceptualize that as humans in a
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: broken world is God removes his relationship when we mess
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: up and he comes closer when we don't. So talk
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: to us about If the person's like, how do I
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: know I made this mistake 10 years ago, whatever, or
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: five years ago or five minutes ago. And now all
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: of a sudden God feels distant. How can they tell
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: the difference between, okay, I am not living aligned with
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: him for whatever reason. And I, and I need to
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: do some business in my heart versus God is doing
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: a deeper work in my soul, teaching me to hold
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: on to those promises or whatever that he's given. Yeah.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: That's good. I love that. I'm just thinking about we
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: work out our salvation with fear and trembling. It's so
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: much of it is a mystery, but there's also the
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: reality that we are living in a world at war
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: and there's another player on the stage. There's us, there's
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the Trinity, and there is an enemy who is alive
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: and well and bent on our destruction. So often in
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: our own stories, we think that Why would we suffer
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: spiritual attack? Why would we be a victim of that
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: when we've got this little life? Why would we even care?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: But we learn in 1 Peter 5.8 that every Christian
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: in the world is under regular spiritual assault, and he
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: names it as suffering. So there's that aspect as well
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: that we need to take into account of when we
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: are feeling shame, diminished, nothing but a failure. far from God.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: He must be displeased with us. That may not be
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: our own inner dialogue. That could be the enemy of
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: our souls saying, yeah, you're right. You're a failure. He
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: wants nothing to do with you. You better just... So
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I write about and we
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: have to talk about as well in the book is
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: the fact that you live in a world at war
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and you are equipped to stand against the lies of
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the enemy. You can... And that will clear some of
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the stage so that you can get to the deeper
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: realities of the fact that you are loved in this moment.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, just try it on. Just give it a shot. Like, yes, yes,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: we have failed. We know what we did five minutes
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: ago and what we did or how we drove or
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: what we said. And try on not only repenting of
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: our sin, but that the reality that in this moment,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: even in my lowest moment, When God looks at me,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: he looks at me through the righteousness of his son.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: He looks at me through the blood of Jesus. And
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I am a chosen and beloved child of God right now.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: And I can't change that. The enemy can't change that.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: My circumstances can't change that. That is who I am.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: And I just encourage people, just try it on for
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: five minutes. Try it on for half an hour. And
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: then let it grow because that is what is true.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: That's reality. And to base our lives, even our thought life,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: what we believe about ourselves, not on our circumstances or
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: our failures or our successes, but on what Jesus has
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: revealed in his word is true about us. I love that.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: I'm actually going to ask you if you could pray
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: for our listeners right now. And I'm actually going to
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: ask if you could pray for two different listeners. One,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: those who are listening, they're like, you know, I've had
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: a relationship with God for a long time. I don't
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: have this depth that you're talking about. That's what I want.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: But then also those who are listening who have never
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: personally encountered Jesus and who are listening and saying, this
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: sounds like what my soul needs. I want to get
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: to know, like for the first time, they've never ever
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: made that choice to say, Jesus, I want to experience
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: your love in this way. So if you could pray
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: for both of those listeners, that would be awesome.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I would love to. Oh, Father, you know who is
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: listening and you know their heart and you know what
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: is stirring in them. So for the first person that
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Jennifer asked, Do you know who you are, dear one?
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to pray on your behalf that your
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: desire for depth in your relationship with Jesus increases, that
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: it increases to the point that every day you say,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I want more of you. I need more of you.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I believe more is available. And I just speak to you.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: It is. It is available. And so I pray for
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: each person, man or woman, to be able to set
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: apart time. Maybe it starts with 10 minutes a day
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: to set apart that time and to get quiet and
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: to ask Holy Spirit for help in knowing you and
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: feeling you and sensing you. And I pray Jesus for
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: a revelation of your love to come to them that
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: exceeds even their best dreaming exceed, blow them away. God
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: reveal your love for them in this moment, in this season,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: in this day, even right now, I pray that you
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: open up the ears of their hearts, open up the
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: eyes of their heart, that they can see and receive
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the depth of your love for them. And Jesus, for
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: the one who believes in you, has made the choice
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: to go, okay, I believe you are the son of God.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I want to follow you. I give you my heart.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: But I don't know about this encountering you. I believe
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: in you, but I have not experienced you. Jesus, you
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: are the God of experience. Jesus, I pray that you
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: open up the eyes of their heart and reveal yourself
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: to them as the God who wants to be known.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: From Genesis to Revelation, the invitation is to know you.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And when we know you, it is, we do learn
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: by experience. I pray that you would open up their
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: eyes to see the ways that you are revealing yourself
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: to them and that you have been. And the little
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: love notes and the things that they love, that they
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: see in the song, on the radio, and the beauty
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: that is them and the friend that drops by and
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the ways that you are coming for them. Even now,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I pray that they would recognize you, recognize your pursuit,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: And then ask for the more. Father, I thank you
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: that you want us to yada you, to know you
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: by experience. And so we ask for that. And I
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: ask for that for every listener, for increased healing, increased revelation,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: and then increased love, both from you to know it
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: and for you in response. In Jesus' name. Amen.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: That was beautiful. Stacey, this has been such an encouraging conversation.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us. And thank you so much
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: for the heart and the tenderness that you brought in
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: your book. So for our listeners, again, it's called The
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Ladder of Love, a pathway to emotional healing and spiritual
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: intimacy with Jesus. Let me read a little from the
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: back cover. Many women long for a deeper, and I'm
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: actually going to say men too, because I know you're
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: listening as well, long for a deeper, more experiential relationship
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: with Jesus. They go to church, read their Bible and pray,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: yet still feel like they know God more in their
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: heads than in their hearts. Shouldn't there be more? In
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: her new book, New York Times bestselling author, Stacey Eldridge
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: reveals that scripture offers a beautiful intentional progression. of intimacy
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: with God. These familiar metaphors, clay, sheep, servant, child, sibling, friend, bride,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: aren't random images. They're rungs on a spiritual ladder that
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: leads us closer to God's heart. As we understand them,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: we begin to understand how he invites us to relate
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: to him. With her signature warmth, biblical depth, and guided prayers,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Stacey helps readers address the heartaches that keep them from
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: drawing closer to God, remove the roadblocks that prevent healing,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: learn to take prayerful pauses that allow Christ to minister
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: directly to their deepest needs, and so much more. And
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: you also have this in an e-book version, correct?
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: In an audio book version, which is, I think, Kind
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: of a lovely way to listen to it because I
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: do guided meditations or prayer encounters at the end of
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: the chapters. And then there's lovely music that comes and
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: you can just soak in it. So that's available.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: For those, like you guys, you fall asleep to hearing
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: how God deeply loves you each night. You have a
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: new chapter and it just helps you lull into sleep
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: knowing that you're lovingly led and well cared for. Thank
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: you for listening. Before you go, fun news. Christmas is coming,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: and I'm celebrating with a huge giveaway featuring 20 wonderful
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Christian authors. Today, I'm highlighting six generous contributors. Heidi Main
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  Speaker 2: is donating The Mistletoe Baby, a heartwarming Christmas romance about
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  Speaker 2: a former bowl rider, a pregnant socialite, and an unexpected
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  Speaker 2: a suspenseful story about an Amish school teacher who discovers
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  Speaker 2: she may actually be a CIA agent. Megan Carver is
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  Speaker 2: contributing Amish Country Witness, featuring a woman in witness protection
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  Speaker 2: on a Montana ranch. K.M. Waldron is giving away an
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  Speaker 2: love and second chances. And Terry Reed is donating Montana
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  Speaker 2: Christmas Target. And... a Christmas ornament. All these gifts, along
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  Speaker 2: with many more, will go to one lucky winner to
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  Speaker 2: enter subscribe to my newsletter using the link in the
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  Speaker 2: show notes. Current subscribers, you're automatically entered into the drawing.
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  Speaker 2: The giveaway runs through December 1st and is open to
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