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JUST SA North West - Omogolo Tlape · TIPS Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast, Tips Talk, the show where we delve into the fascinating world of economics and its impact on global development.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Note Mbi Matlangu, and today we are asking why it is important for local and provincial government officials in the Northwest Province to understand the impact of climate change and the imperative to decarbonize our economy as well as make that transition just.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: We are finding ourselves today in the city of Rusenberg to see why and how government officials can turn policy into action.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have a special guest with us, Mr.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Umoholo.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great pleasure to have you on our podcast today.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get the discussion started around the just transition, could you introduce yourself and share a bit about the work that you do?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, thank you so much, my sister.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, Umoholo Tlaipe, coming from the Northwest Provincial Treasury under a unit called macroeconomic analysis, but falling under the umbrella of sustainable resource management.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm the deputy director of macroeconomic analysis.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: So what we normally do is macroeconomic analysis under the umbrella of sustainable resource management.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: We work hand in hand with the budget office, be it those who are responsible for public entities, those who are looking into the infrastructure expenditure of the province, and those who are looking into expenditure, the budget of departments within the province.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now you ask yourself, what is it that we do now as macroeconomic analysis within that umbrella?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: We assist the budget office to check as to where can we allocate resources.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we look into allocation efficiency.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Then you ask yourself, how do we perform that?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: We look into non-financial indicators within the province, but normally we will look at the global area, the global space, the national space, most importantly, the province.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, with the province, those non-financial indicators which we trace the expenditure of the departments as to how the non-financial indicators respond to those budget or expenditure in all the departments.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that is that, and we produce two main documents that go together with the budget book and the adjustment book.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: We have the social economic review outlook and the economic provincial economic review outlook whereby we track the performance of the non-financial indicators and also the social indicators.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: The other key area that we look into is your economic update.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: We look into what is it that is trending, what is it that Status A has produced in terms of data.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: We look into that, we unpack that, and that's how we produce economic update.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: We are not limited to issues related to allocation efficiency or working with the budget office.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: We work hand in hand with the department called COCTA.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: They deal with local government.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the role that we play there as macroeconomic analysis, we assess the IDP, specifically looking into the LED chapters, and we form part of the provincial LED forum coordinators.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we are there to assist municipalities in terms of profiling the chapter specifically, and also we review.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Come around your June, July.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: We've been invited by COCTA to say it's now to come and review or assess the IDPs of municipalities.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: We also assist departments with economic data, social data in our province.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: We work very closely with economic development, your office of the premier regarding sharing information.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: One that I can mention is the Northwest University because we've got some papers that we produced in partnership with the university.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for that.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is really important work that you're doing.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, after the intensive two-day training on the green economy and the just transition, what would you say from the training really stood out for you?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are the key moments?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what stood out?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Every presenter who was there presented for every question that was asked, they said, that's a good question.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kidding.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what stood out for me from the economic point of view.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was not really keen into you know investigating, looking into topics related to just transitioning.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was old school.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was looking into you know other areas within economics.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: But honestly, today I think I'm going to explore more and more and more around the subject of just transitioning.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what stood out for me is that with this just transitioning, it's not only bringing clean economy, but also assisting the society that is participating in the economy to live a healthy life.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes beyond growing the economy.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I've realized that this just transition, it's not a thing that started now.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: You look into Poland, you look into Germany.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that between Germany and Poland, there's a country that stopped operating coal mines in 1958.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can imagine 1958.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Where were we, me and you?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: But now we are talking about just transitioning as if like it started now, and it beat fruits for them.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I saw that the sooner the better we start implementing your just transitioning and also checking as to how are we progressing as a country, how are we progressing as a province, how are the municipalities progressing, including your local municipalities.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that stood out for me, it was at that point in time the presenter was showing how does the top 10 contribute to CO2, and the top 50, how do they contribute?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it came out that the richer or those who are privileged contribute to climate change.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the top 50, those who are vulnerable, they really do not.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the presenter unpacked the reason behind that.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and there's a lot that I can talk about, issues that were communicated to us as people who came to attend this.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was really an eye-opener.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, building on that, going back to the office, you know, looking at the just transition policies and also unlocking green opportunities.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you said you're looking at non-financial indicators and socioeconomic indicators.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: How would you infuse these policies in the work that you're currently doing?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Currently, as a province, we have a renewable energy strategy.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think to go through that document will be the point of departure and expand on that because that provincial strategy emanates from the national ones.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me is to check as to what is it that will come out to bring like your research topic and research around that and see how will this particular subject benefit the economy of the province.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And another thing, to make more research around it, knowing that as a country we've got limited resources with unlimited needs.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now we are left with what?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: To attract investors.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think we need to do more studies to attract investors within our province to say that here's land.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Can you please come in invest?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, land.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: We want to improve the livelihood of our society.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: So going back to my office, there's a lot that I need to do around the subject of just transitioning.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, still looking at your province, what would you say are the biggest opportunities and what are the biggest challenges?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Can I start with the opportunities or challenges?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Bad news or good news?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: You decide.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let me start with the challenges.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let me start with the challenges.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: The issue around just transition with respect to the challenges, it's skill.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: We are talking about do we have the capacity in terms of human capital to work the ground?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first question.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because currently I can say, I've been talking with one of my colleagues out there saying that you will find someone born in 2005 at the high learning institution telling you that I'm doing mechanical engineering, diesel, petrol, I'm doing electric engineering.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: But we are moving to just transition.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is it really fair?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the challenge is at the high learning institutions, we are not making awareness to those institutions to say that at least introduce, when you talk of mechanical engineering, introduce EVs because sooner rather than later, automobile are introducing EVs and they are going to reskill their employees.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, those who need to come and enter into the working space, they'll be having motor mechanic, diesel, petrol.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it is not fair to the young ones.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So to expedite and to see ourselves not having a high unemployment rate from where we are, you must remember as Northwest, we are sitting at about 35% unemployment, higher than the national average.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if we are not looking into the hiring institution to introduce things that we are moving into, we are going to have a serious challenge when it comes to unemployment.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that I'm looking without talking about now your skill, where are we getting, for example, solar panel components?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: So China, 80% of components that are being produced globally, they are coming from China.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to check when we move to renewable energy, living coal, how is unemployment going to be affected?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to have phases whereby, in this particular phase, we are economics, we've got statisticians who can run models to focus looking into unemployment, to say that in this particular stage, when we introduce just transition, unemployment will be affected this much.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: But as we move on, because Rome was not built in one day, things will become better.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing, the challenge that I see is that yes, we've got land, but now there's going to be a competition whereby are you going to put your renewable plants in those areas whereas there's a need for residential areas, there's a need for agricultural purposes, there's a need to build other industries beside your energy sector.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the challenges that I see.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you wanted also opportunities.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just take those ones, mix them, then you get the opportunities.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: You take lemon, you bring lemonade.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't need to frustrate ourselves with all those.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: We saw the importance of just transition.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Presenters gave us a lot of reasons.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to move.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: After moving, we can say, is it better to continue exporting from China?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or should we diversify now this new industry, the renewable energy?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: How are we going to diversify that?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: By now looking into the opportunity of producing those components in our country.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Same as jobs will be lost, but the minute we diversify the industry, we'll see more job opportunities.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, I said there's a point in time, someone who's doing mechanical engineering will find it difficult to get a job.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Not only that, remember now we should guard against importing skills while we've got high unemployment.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So how are we going to do that?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: By equipping young learners, young students, youngsters within that test space so that they can participate in the economy.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, those are the opportunities that I see.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: As a province, partnering with universities, I think it's key.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Whereby we are not going to set, make policies, make plans, make our own researches.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas we've got professors, we've got doctors, we've got people with the technical know-how who can give us scientific evidence that as government we can implement.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So partnering with relevant stakeholders, I think it's the other opportunity that I see.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know in terms of talking of renewable energy, the heat that we are exposed to as a province.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've got an advantage, competitive advantage when you look at South Africa as a whole, all the other provinces, but do not touch Northern Cape.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Northern Cape, I think, is number we can compete with others, but we have an advantage in terms of maybe building, you know, solar plants and because of the heat that is coming from the sun.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a number of opportunities.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: The opportunities that I've just uh mentioned, it's not yes and amen.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's more to that.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for sharing your insights today.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: It has been a great pleasure hearing your perspective on the just transition and the green economy.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we really hope our listeners walk away with new ideas and inspiration for their own regions.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, thank you.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I can say before you close.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: The most important thing is implementation.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Implementation, implementation, measuring implementation so that we can see progress.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Remember when I entered here, you said, How are you?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying, I'm trying to try.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: You went like, No, it's gonna be fine.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: I said, but there's progress.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: We want to see progress.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks to tips for making this awareness.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it will move up until we will be like your Germany, we will be like your Poland and will be flourishing as a country.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, my sister.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: That wraps up today's episode.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: A huge thank you to our guests for sharing their expertise and time with us and for attending this training.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you will continue to champion the mandate of greening the economy in a just and equitable way.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And to our listeners, your support means the world to us.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, sustainable growth is not just a goal, but a path to a more resilient and prosperous future.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and connect with us on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, I'm your host, Note Mbi Masangi, signing off.