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Ep #8: AI and Kids, What the Classroom Can Teach the Boardroom · AI'm Just Trying My Best

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to another episode of AI.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just trying my best.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: As always, I am accompanied by my friend and business partner, Chavelle Bedra.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Chavelle, it's nice to see you.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Good to see you as well, Adam.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing wonderful.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for asking.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we are on the cusp of our holiday weekend, labor days in a short, a short couple of days here.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Feels like it's the last uh celebratory barbecue as we kick off our or end the end the summer season.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Get ready for fall, get ready for the holidays, they'll be here before we know it.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh definitely the end of summer.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Although my kids already started school this week.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but my neighbors were having a big pool party all day yesterday, and I was a little jealous because we're already back in this weekend thing, so they're enjoying the last bit of freedom.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, good for them.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Good for them.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy for them.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: So at least we can be you'll blink, you'll blink and you'll be celebrating those end of summer days while your kids are in college and graduate soon enough.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: I want to wish everything go how's everything going back to school?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: I know you've got children, I've got children.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, your kids have already started this past week.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Mine don't start until after Labor Day.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, how are things going?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: How are you dealing with the stress?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: How are you dealing with, you know, running a business, being a mom, getting kids off to school?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: How do you deal with all that?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's uh it's it's fun.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you do it.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's I have started relying on AI a lot more, actually.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So one cool use case that I did is I took my kids' uh, you know, school calendar and I asked co-pilot to, you know, go ahead and put all of those dates on my calendar, something that would have taken me, you know, probably like an hour, quite honestly, uh, before, if not more, took me all but like 20 seconds.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So using AI to help me as a busy working mom, uh, any chance I can get.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: But things are going good.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Kids all ready for school.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you know, we're getting there.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: We're getting there.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, we got the school supplies.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: We had open house the other day or yesterday, actually.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Kids are excited.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're in that weird transition period where we're excited for school, hasn't arrived yet.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we still got a long holiday weekend in front of us.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure by Sunday, Monday for sure, the kids will be so excited, but also uh cranky and tired, and then we have to deal with all that.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: But hey, I wouldn't change it for the world.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice to get back into a routine, like it's nice to have some time during the day where you know you're not gonna be interrupted by, you know, requests for meatloaf.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um screen from the home.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that the truth?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as we talk about going back to school, um, I'm not sure if you're aware this this news just kind of broke yesterday, but uh the New York City mayor Mandani just issued uh a law preventing AI from classrooms from uh grade, was it kindergarten to eighth grade, right?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Which is something that we never had to deal with last year.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it was really on a whole lot of people's minds as far as how AI was going to affect the classroom, especially at uh uh a K through eighth grade.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you being an AI expert, what do you what are your thoughts on that?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he put a one-year moratorium out, which basically means right now, um, anybody in K through eighth grade in New York City education system, which is the largest, I think, education system um school district in the country, uh, can't use AI.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he really also limited the teachers' use of AI as well, which I think is interesting.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think they can just use it for like lesson planning or something.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it and it's interesting that they did this just a few days before the school year.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I have, you know, some mixed feelings.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I like the fact that it's just a moratorium, right?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do think it's important that you this stuff is moving really fast, right?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and um nobody really knows like how to put their arms around it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about that almost every week.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I also don't know if it's realistic to wait for a whole year, like what's the opportunity cost of that?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And are we teaching kids to use it responsibly from the onset?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because like one thing I've learned, and Adam, you worked in HR long enough to know this yourself.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: The people will always find a way, right?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, like just because we ban something doesn't mean that students aren't gonna use it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: What that means is what are they gonna have to do?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna use it, but probably hide it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I is that the right way?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's funny because one of the things I wanted to talk about in this podcast when we planned it was my daughter actually, and I wrote about this in my newsletter, they eliminated a specials class that they've had for years and replaced it with digital literacy.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you have, you know, New York City schools that's like completely banning it, but you have this small little like, you know, we we're like a class D or whatever school in Michigan that's focusing on AI literacy and how do we teach it responsibly.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just kind of fascinating.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my daughter's in fifth grade, but all kids, like kindergarten students, are gonna be, you know, kind of taking this class as well.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting to see how folks are are uh handling it.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's a unique um navigation that we're we're all kind of dealing with, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that we are struggling as a society to say, hey, is A AI here to stay?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: How do we use it at work?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: But then once it trickles down to our personal lives, right?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: We've done many episodes and and had lots of discussion on how to use AI in everyday life, but really we never thought about how the kids are going to react to it, how what are the kids gonna utilize it for, right?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess you know that can be a scary thing.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And back to the mayor of New York, you mentioned that it's a highly populated uh uh student um pool that's being affected by this.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's affecting nearly 600,000 public school students, right?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: So 600,000 public school students within New York, excuse me, and uh Madami says, you know, kids need teachers, human connection and independent thinking, uh pushing back against the industry's push for AI and early education, which I agree, you know, when we talk about kids being at a developmental stage, is it easier to give them a tablet and say, hey, you know, prompt chat GTP to help you with your classwork, or is it uh better for the students to get involved with their parents or their teachers or their peers to try and learn that way?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I completely agree.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's always how it's used, right?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: If they're using AI to completely replace, you know, rote learning and memorization and just, you know, yeah, it's not effective.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't be used.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think most people will recognize that and want to use it the right way.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Most teachers are already learning, like, hey, I can use this as a tool to support and like kind of supplement my my teaching, um, you know, to be able to help my students.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think the hardest thing that we're gonna figure out, like need to figure out, and and this goes for corporations as well, is like, how do students learn, you know, those skills um and what do they need to learn and how do they need to learn it?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of research that's starting to come out about that.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a whole um, you know, bit of research that was done by let me find his name here, um, uh, Timothy Cook, and it was in a connected classroom, you know, study, and it's all about cognitive atrophy versus cognitive force foreclosure.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: So do you know cognitive atrophy versus disclosure?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, I'm expert in it.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is it's really interesting.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So atrophy is when I, you know, Adam, you use Copilot to do something for you.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're offloading a task.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you stopped, you know, if you stopped using AI to like draft an email for you, for example, you've written thousands of emails.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: You would still probably know how to write an email.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you become too dependent upon it, yeah, like that skill is probably gonna atrophy, right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're probably not gonna be as good at that skill, but you've already learned how to write an email versus cognitive foreclosure, which is you've never learned how to write an email and you've only learned co-pilot to write an email for you.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are two very different things that I think you know, a lot of really smart people are trying to figure out, both at a, you know, kind of just a human development perspective, but then also as an organization, how do we figure out like, you know, which of these tasks need, you know, to be learned and how do they learn it?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that's there's always gonna be, you know, um a need to focus on that and figure that out.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I don't know if just taking it away from everybody is gonna teach that, quite honestly.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we are, you know, at a at uh an uncertain advantage, right, within what tools we have accessibility to, uh, what our kids can use them for, what we can use them for.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I also think, you know, back when we were in school, you know, we're learning, you know, calculus, geometry, math.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: And what was the big thing that our teachers used to tell us?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna have a calculator in your pocket throughout life, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, guess what we do?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, is this another one of those examples where we're hindering, you know, on technology and saying, well, you're not gonna have access to copiler, access to AI to help you navigate life.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: You got to figure it out on your own, you know, 10 years down the road.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, guess what?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: We do.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: I have my virtual assistant in my pocket that you know can navigate me through traffic, through um, you know, any type of educational questions that I have.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need to rely on my you know uh study of math to solve an equation.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: I can just ask my phone in, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think we're we're headed towards a new um a new idea, a new way of thinking with having these AI tools at our disposal in our pockets?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think where AI is it's honestly it's a big PR issue right now, right?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: People think of AI, they think of just students using it to cheat.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not that's happening, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think that it's pretty easy for educators to figure out when students are doing that.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, there was a um uh in that same uh article, which we can link in the show notes, um, this this uh stu you know researcher was talking to a health teacher.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so he was worried about students using ChatGPT just to kind of do their book reports.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So he found the most like oddest random, you know, task.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted students to, I think it was um write a narrative, like a fictional story about childbirth.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um like nice, and he was expecting just really random, you know, because that's part of the learning, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like just trying different things and what what have you.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: But they all came back like with a mission impossible kind of story arc.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it's like the same copy paste, copy, paste, like the same ever the class had the same thing.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, yeah, like the teacher figured that out pretty quickly, right?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think teachers will figure that out and are figuring that out and will continue to do so.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I think again, you you got to teach them how to use it well and teach them, okay, here's when you use it, here's when you don't use it.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, students, a lot of research has has been done around how students perceive AI.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so students are using AI more than ever.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think it went up from um like 64%.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um, let me find my 62% 62% of students middle school and up to use AI um in December 2025.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was only 48%, like six months earlier or something like that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So students are starting to use at a faster clip, but they're also more critical about it.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: They recognize through trial and error, like, hey, this doesn't always get it right all the time.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: If I become too dependent upon it when I go and take my test, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So students are already starting to learn that.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I think we can help them learn that a little bit earlier so they can use it as a tool versus a crutch.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just like the calculator, right?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think of an example when you are trying to teach your child like common core math, right?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we were taught how to solve those problems in an entirely different way, leading to the correct answer, right?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a way to get the correct ant answer out of this by going multiple directions, right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: So is what what concerns me is when uh you and I deal with organizations leadership, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: People who are are extremely well educated, have multiple degrees, and they're still hesitant on how to actually utilize AI, they're still hesitant on how to teach AI, right?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: They're still hesitant on adopting AI within their organization, surrounded by well-educated people and you know, leaders uh that have these capabilities.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now, how do we expect parents to teach AI safety and how to utilize artificial intelligence when organizations and well-educated people are still hesitant to adopt it within their everyday life, within their workforce?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think what's interesting and another parallel is that people use it that are using it, whether you're a student or an employee, I think they have more confidence in AI in the sense that it's not going to replace jobs.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, so there's that healthy amount of skepticism, but you can see the value of it, right?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you understand how it works.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can never teach something that you don't understand yourself.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's so important that whether you're a leader in an organization, whether you're a parent, whether you're a teacher, that you start to use these tools yourself.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's no other way that you will understand the risks of it, understand the benefits of it, when you should use it, et cetera.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're not using AI, start using it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that also just makes people feel a little bit more comfortable.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know what you're working with.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of the, I mentioned that, you know, AI is a bit of a PR crisis right now.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of that's being fed, one, actually, by bots, um, they found out recently.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but people don't, you know, they're scared of the unknown.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh yeah, I just hear about all these terrible things.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna ruin the environment, it's gonna, you know, cause me to not be able to think critically myself.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna, you know, do all these bad things.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: But when you start to use it, like think about yourself, Adam, when you first started using it, you know, and really kind of digging in, like, you thought probably a little bit differently about it, right?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's really important that we don't just put bury our hands in the sand because it's not going away.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we just educate ourselves, start to use it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what made worries me about these kids not using it for a year because they're gonna go into a workforce where their peers learned a lot earlier than they did.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, it might be the right answer.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, time will tell, but uh my gut's telling me that it that it's not.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I I agree with you, you know, it's like how are we are we hindering our kids at an early age of learning uh how to utilize a tool?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you talk about early early development within children, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: When they are, you know, in elementary school age group, that's where they're learning the most, that's where they're able to absorb as much knowledge as you can.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why individuals say when you're teaching a second language or a third language, do it when the child's young because you're able to pick it up quicker.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Are we doing our children a disservice by saying no AI usage, by saying no screen time as the world develops into screens are always in front of you, right?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: You can't even go to a gas station and pump gas without a screen being in front of you.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: But then as parents, we're frowned upon if our kids have more than 30 minutes of tablet time in an area in an environment where screens are everywhere.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: So why not teach our children how to utilize and effectively understand what's on these screens versus taking it away?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, you and I are all right, and we grew up with screens.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So as a parent that makes me feel better.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I grew up on Maury and the price is right uh every every summer morning.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, I do think there's something to that though.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm what I'm not saying here is like every kindergartner should just be taught using a computer and AI.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's not at all what I'm saying.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think the earlier that you teach them to your point, like when they're learning and they're, you know, how to use this as a tool, when it's appropriate, when it's not appropriate, like that's just gonna be a normal thing for them.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that might be harder for somebody, say if they're never taught and then they go into a workplace, they don't it that's gonna be probably a more difficult transition.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think another big part that scares me about this not being used as a tool is you know, differentiation in teaching, because you have these poor teachers that are in charge of trying to create, you know, a unique learning experience for 30 different kids.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can't possibly do that.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you have kids on the one end of the spectrum that might be a little bit more advanced, they're not getting what they need because you know that they have to teach to kind of the bell curve, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you have kids that might be behind.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we doing with these?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we not using a tool that's been proven to help support education, you know, be able to meet these kids where they are instead of just a blanket yes or no?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: It should be very individualized, case by case.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think there's a lot more positive that can come from AI and education than the negative, quite honestly.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we work with with and have had multiple conversations with professors that are trying to utilize AI within their teachings, right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: By creating videos of them giving, you know, portions of their lecture that they can then send out to their students.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, how crazy is it gonna be when you know we're utilizing co-pilot to figure out the best way to explain common core math to our elementary school kids, and then saying you can't use it for yourself, right?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like it's the calculator in the pocket thing all over again, you know.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'll be you know honest with you.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: I have used copilot to help my kids out, right, within instructions that they need.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's the best way to explain this to them?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what's the best way to explain it to me, you know, in general?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I I agree with you.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there's there's a balance of utilizing it as a tool and understanding and teaching your kids, you know, just like utilizing the internet.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: What do you use it for?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to go down the wrong path, you'll see something that might, you know, you that you shouldn't be.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why, you know, parental advisory guardrails are so important within this technology, because we want to make sure that our kids grow up with it and can utilize it, but we have to make sure that they're safe at the same time.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think um kids are, and the thing is kids are using it anyways.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the biggest thing.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the thing I we we preach to to organizations as well.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is like, just because you say they're not allowed to use it does not mean that they're not gonna use it.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: That means that they're gonna not know what tool is appropriate for them to use.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, maybe I should not use some tool not to be named versus like, you know, Claude or or you know, ChatGPT or Copilot that have a lot of those protections put in place.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they won't know what's per, you know, what they're allowed to put in there, what they shouldn't put in there from a privacy perspective.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: They they won't know all these things.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: They got to figure it out on themselves.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really, you know, can be really the damage can be done, you know, pretty, pretty early before they figured that out.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And they're using it like you you say that you helped your your kid use um, you know, chat GPT for homework.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I do the same.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: My kids, honestly, because I couldn't learn math when I learned it, and I spent years trying to learn in school.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I never learned it.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so now they have the common core.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I surely can't teach you this.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So my daughter, my son, and both they go to co-pilot, you know, or ChatGPT.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: They'll and and it's actually pretty good.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it won't give them the answer, it makes them work through it, you know.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, show me your next step, like just like a tutor.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think that's a bad thing because I surely can't do it.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and same thing with organizations, like you can't just say you can't use it.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta let them know what to use it for, when it's appropriate, all of these things, or they're gonna do dumb stuff um and and make risky choices.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, Chevelle, you you see that firsthand, right?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: You just got back from a speaking engagement with a client that was, you know, using general AI agents or excuse me, general AI models to put in sensitive information of their organization into it, right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Which is which is a big no no.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that just goes back to understanding the technology, understanding you know, the security purposes and why it's so important that you know organizations that Are utilizing, you know, AI and have an adoption strategy are way above the curve because, like you mentioned, they're using it anyway.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you might as well train your people to use it the right way in a secure setting versus dumping company data into their, you know, chat GTP app on their phone, right?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or their account on their PC because they are doing it.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a matter of, okay, now how much do you care about protecting the security of your organization?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think learning it the right way and learning what to use it for.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there's, you know, this it's called cognitive scaffolding.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's being able to use a tool to kind of support your learning and development.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so I actually put a newsletter out there.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you're interested, you should check it out um on LinkedIn.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: But because all these different ways that Copilot or or Chad, you know, Gen AI and whatever tool you use can help you learn, right?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: By creating a narrative.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wrote a um a story about the 1984, you know, Tigers World Series win.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned things that I didn't know before just because I it was interesting.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I read like a story or getting it to challenge things.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think that earlier that we can teach kids all these different cool, unique ways to learn.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And another thing is learn in a way that they will really learn.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there was one example I ran across where they this kid was really into soccer.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, all of the, you know, the AI like helped him, all of his math problems, all it was kind of around soccer.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, guess what?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: He was a lot more engaged, he wanted to learn.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: He, you know, he was able to learn a lot more quickly because it was something he was interested in.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: No teacher has the time to be able to do that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think just figuring out and letting people know, like, hey, it's appropriate to use it for this.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not appropriate to use it for this, but here's how you can use it in these appropriate cases is just critical.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're a parent, whether you're a team leader, whether you're CEO, I think that's something that we all have to sit down and do um pretty quickly.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, Chabelle, you're a parent, right?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: You have a child in junior high school, a child in elementary school.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: What conversations are you having with them about the usage of AI?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Or are they even into it and have they experien expressed any interest in using it?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, they use it all the time and they're nosy.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So they go through my uh my apps and they and they can kind of see my thought process, right?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't hide anything of how I use it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they learn just by even seeing me do it and talking to it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we talk a lot about hey, you know, you're you're using AI to help you learn.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're using it as a tool, not a crutch.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've we've talked about that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they're learning different ways, you know, to use AI in really unique, you know, situations.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Again, tell me a story about this.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, interview me like I am, you know, you know, Helen Keller, you know, and be able to, so there's all these different cool ways that they're learning and and helping them navigate through that.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I they're also teaching me a lot of stuff, you know.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: My son is pretty like he's coding apps.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: He has an app that he developed.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he's constantly showing me things and and they'll learn.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Kids are really smart and and innovative.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we can learn from them just as much as we can teach them, quite honestly.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know, Adam, have you um talked to your son about or your kids about AI?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so you know, my son is going into fifth grade and he is extremely curious about you know AI, especially when it comes to like more of the arts that we see, you know, peppered all through LinkedIn, like those cool flyers that you see that are super busy now that are almost getting to become annoying.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's he's super into utilizing AI to help with art, right?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: To help with you know sports posters and things like that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he hasn't really, you know, we've talked a little bit about like how to use a prompt and what that's for, but also saying that, hey, just because um, you know, Microsoft co-pilot pumps out an answer doesn't mean that it's necessarily correct, right?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: We have to still create that that open challenge thinking and and question everything, uh, and then go to sources and find out whether that that was the right thing, or even ask co-pilot, provide the sources where you got this information from.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, in a world full of uh data that can be easily manipulated or you know, alternative fact data, which I still don't understand how you can have uh alternative facts, but you know, it's it's important that we question everything and that you know we just don't take what uh what a uh AI agent tells us for for for truth, we got to question it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then if we do our due diligence with that, then okay, we can we can speak as it as to truth.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's just one of those things of education, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's those things, same similar conversations you have with the internet.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Not everything the internet shows you is true, not everything you see on the internet or read is fact, right?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um darn shoot, my life is a lie.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Kidding some of those conversations, right, with your kids about everything, and it's easy to just throw AI into it, right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Where you know little Johnny's at school telling your kid that you know uh the sky is purple and he comes home and says, Is it purple?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, Johnny, little Johnny's an idiot, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing with your AI agent.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Your AI agent told you something completely asined.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's what it is, right?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not fake, or it's not true.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does this make sense?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is it accurate?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my kids actually learn that the hard way.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, like speaking of real quick, I have a math problem.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: So my son had this math quiz, take home quiz.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't figure it out clearly.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: My engineer husband was out of town, so it was up to me.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we used, I think it was uh, I'm not gonna say the tool it was, uh, but it wasn't copilot, but it kept getting the answers wrong.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a multiple choice, so we knew the answer, and we were like, come on.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So my kids learned early on, like you can't necessarily trust the tools, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: You have to to think critically.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was funny, we went to school the next day and there was a bunch of parents like, we couldn't figure it out.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Chat GPT drill is the wrong answer.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, it's a good lesson to learn.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it will lie to you, just like little Johnny.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the sky is not purple.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And who's to say that that tool doesn't need an update up app, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Which I've came across where I ask it something knowing that they're gave me the wrong answer, and then it's like, well, now I just lost all faith in my AI tool.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: Wait a minute, I need an update.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: I update it and then it spits out the right answer, right?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you can't really invest a whole lot of stock into what the answer you're gonna get or how to do it.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: You got to question everything, just like it's the internet, just like if your teacher's teaching you something, the more questions that our kids can ask, the better output that they'll have.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Use it as a scaffold, as a tool to get you to the answer, not to get you the answer.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, absolutely.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, we've talked about this many times throughout our our our eight episodes of of this podcast is you know, use it as a tool.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: AI is here to help you.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's not going to be replacing jobs, but it will help you secure jobs in the future.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where if we don't keep that door open, we could be hindering our kids' success in the future with what they can and can't do versus what their peers can.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And same goes for organizations, you know, we have to kind of take these lessons and apply them uh for our teams as well.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know how many lessons that I have obtained from you know being around kids, coaching youth sports, that you look and you say, these are the same issues that our adults in organizations are having.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: And how if I can explain, you know, a certain topic to a group of 10-year-olds, I can transition that to a group of 40 plus year olds, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's all on how we perceive it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's easier to teach well, most of the times it's easier to teach the children than it is because they don't have years and years of programming and years and years of of things that they used to do, right?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Especially when you're going through change, something as big as is AI tools in the workforce.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Chabelle, it's as always, it's been a pleasure.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, whether you're trying to adopt AI within your organization, within your home life, within your kids' education, you know, we're all out here trying our best, and that's the best that we can do.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: The truth.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, Chabelle, as always, it's a pleasure.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: We'll talk soon.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.