Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Interview: Cardinals pitching coach Dusty Blake

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Interview: Cardinals pitching coach Dusty Blake · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, Welcome back to Cardinal Territory. It's Friday the thirteenth,
0:08
Speaker 1: very scary hours and not exactly the most fun time
0:11
Speaker 1: for the Cardinals lately. They just lost their fifth straight
0:14
Speaker 1: game six o'clonkor to the Brewer Sunny Gray just did
0:17
Speaker 1: not have his best stuff. But as we usually do
0:20
Speaker 1: on this podcast, we are looking towards the future. So
0:24
Speaker 1: we have Cardinals pitching coach Dusty Blake on the show
0:26
Speaker 1: today as our special guest. Super excited to break down
0:29
Speaker 1: some of the pitching going on with the Cardinals and
0:32
Speaker 1: just kind of pick the brain of one of my
0:34
Speaker 1: favorite people in the orgs. Dusty. Thanks for joining, Yeah, yeah.
0:37
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on.
0:38
Speaker 3: I don't know if MEBA and one's going to help
0:40
Speaker 3: your ratings this week, but certainly appreciate getting a chance
0:43
Speaker 3: to chat.
0:44
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to do our best, right, We're going
0:46
Speaker 1: to try our best, all right. We'll start just with
0:50
Speaker 1: an overall synopsis of the pitching picture as we go
0:56
Speaker 1: through June. We kind of knew this was going to
0:58
Speaker 1: be a tough month just given the lack of off days.
1:00
Speaker 1: That's something we've talked about a lot on the show.
1:02
Speaker 1: Cardinals don't have a ton, just two and all of June,
1:06
Speaker 1: and they're currently in the midst of playing what thirteenth straight.
1:09
Speaker 1: So as you're mapping out June, what were some of
1:12
Speaker 1: your concerns about, namely the rotation and overall just making
1:16
Speaker 1: sure that they were staying healthy and staying effective.
1:20
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think a big priority for us.
1:23
Speaker 3: We've certainly committed to the six man opportunity or the
1:26
Speaker 3: sixth day I should say more than six man the
1:29
Speaker 3: sixth day window for those guys. We know it gives
1:33
Speaker 3: them a chance to recover better. We know it gives
1:35
Speaker 3: us an opportunity to work a little bit more between
1:38
Speaker 3: games on some areas that may need improving or more attention.
1:43
Speaker 3: So finding a way to stay in that during this
1:46
Speaker 3: stretch I think is helpful was certainly priority for us.
1:49
Speaker 3: That's why we saw McGreevy come up. Gives us a
1:54
Speaker 3: great depth opportunity to bring a guy up and have
1:57
Speaker 3: a chance to win a game against a really good offense.
2:01
Speaker 3: But yeah, just keeping those guys in a good spot
2:03
Speaker 3: I think is a priority. That's what they've adapted to
2:06
Speaker 3: up to this point. There's going to be stretches obviously
2:08
Speaker 3: where we've had guys this year stay in that five
2:10
Speaker 3: day but it's been proven over the course of the
2:13
Speaker 3: last decade or so when you can give those guys
2:15
Speaker 3: one extra day, not only can you get more out
2:17
Speaker 3: of that bullpen, but it gives them a better chance
2:19
Speaker 3: to stay healthy. And you know, from a rotation standpoint,
2:21
Speaker 3: like we're pretty encouraged right now with what they've done.
2:24
Speaker 3: I think we're top five or six in quality starts.
2:28
Speaker 3: I know those guys have given us an opportunity to
2:31
Speaker 3: I think we're second the league and shutouts right now,
2:33
Speaker 3: so I think they've given us some opportunities to be
2:36
Speaker 3: in a great position to win games. We know when
2:38
Speaker 3: we get quality starts, we're going to have a good shot.
2:41
Speaker 3: I've never lost a shutout, so I think that's always
2:43
Speaker 3: good as well. But finding ways to manage that along
2:47
Speaker 3: with obviously our bullpen certainly priority.
2:50
Speaker 1: Well, let's focus a little bit about the rotation overall, because,
2:54
Speaker 1: as you know, pitching injuries across baseball it's a problem,
2:59
Speaker 1: and you and Ollie we've talked about this a lot
3:02
Speaker 1: on the show. We're intentional really dating back to spring training,
3:05
Speaker 1: about how this usage was going to go, how the
3:07
Speaker 1: six six day schedule was going to go, using Stephen
3:10
Speaker 1: Matts in the hybrid role, using McGreevy as a spot starter,
3:14
Speaker 1: and knock on wood, You guys have done a really
3:17
Speaker 1: nice job with your pitching injuries. One of the very
3:19
Speaker 1: few teams who have not had a really impactful injury
3:23
Speaker 1: in your rotation. When you're looking through because I know
3:26
Speaker 1: you don't take any days off even in the offseason,
3:29
Speaker 1: when you're going into spring training and you're piecing together
3:31
Speaker 1: what this is going to look like, the lack of
3:32
Speaker 1: depth and triple A and how you're going to keep
3:35
Speaker 1: your starters healthier, give them the best shot. What are
3:37
Speaker 1: the things you're looking at and why was that so
3:39
Speaker 1: important to do?
3:42
Speaker 3: You're just looking at I mean, nobody's mid season form
3:44
Speaker 3: in April and May so to have more opportunities to
3:49
Speaker 3: work on the things that the game has given us
3:51
Speaker 3: feedback with is really important for some of our more
3:54
Speaker 3: veteran guys, like giving them some extra risks, really important
3:58
Speaker 3: younger guys, opportunity to reset the plants the libators given
4:05
Speaker 3: those guys a look at, like how do I manage
4:09
Speaker 3: my week? Like all right, what happened in this last game?
4:12
Speaker 3: Like the league's going to continue to adapt to them.
4:14
Speaker 3: When you see veterans successful pitchers, you know, it says
4:17
Speaker 3: a lot about them because the leagues had a chance
4:19
Speaker 3: to adapt and those guys have found a way to
4:22
Speaker 3: continue to leverage what they do well with younger guys
4:24
Speaker 3: like you just don't know what that next adaptation will be.
4:27
Speaker 3: We saw it a little bit with Polonte last year,
4:30
Speaker 3: with the league's approach taking him the other way. We
4:32
Speaker 3: started adapting using the sinker a little bit more to
4:35
Speaker 3: rieties and saw a really good counterbalance there. But going
4:40
Speaker 3: back to you know, the question on the sixth day,
4:42
Speaker 3: like it gives them they may recover a little more effectively,
4:46
Speaker 3: but it gives them more opportunities to work on what
4:48
Speaker 3: we're seeing, what trends that we're noticing that the league
4:52
Speaker 3: and offenses may be shifting to have a better approach
4:54
Speaker 3: against them. And instead of being in that tight five
4:57
Speaker 3: day window where you're limited in your side, more of
5:00
Speaker 3: a fitness session and feel the mound and try to
5:03
Speaker 3: make sure stay sharp, like we can actively be intentional
5:07
Speaker 3: about what that next step might be. So that's part
5:11
Speaker 3: of it, you know, with more veteran guys and extra
5:13
Speaker 3: day is always helpful, you know, with younger guys, more
5:16
Speaker 3: space in between to work and strategize as it is helpful,
5:20
Speaker 3: so that that was certainly part of it.
5:22
Speaker 1: I think the feedback also, whether you're looking at the
5:24
Speaker 1: veterans side or the younger guys like Polante and Libby,
5:27
Speaker 1: has been this is super helpful. I remember talking to
5:30
Speaker 1: Miles in April where he said, you know, when you're
5:32
Speaker 1: on a five day rest schedule, you're getting you're doing
5:35
Speaker 1: your bullpen, and you're just getting your work in, You're
5:36
Speaker 1: not really you don't really have the chance to go
5:38
Speaker 1: in and fix things and address things. And that was
5:41
Speaker 1: important for Miles given how has April started, and that
5:44
Speaker 1: was really important for Libby and Polante really across the board.
5:49
Speaker 1: But the difference is that one day difference in the
5:52
Speaker 1: schedule when it comes to the workload and the bullpen
5:55
Speaker 1: and how you prepare them between starts. What are you
5:57
Speaker 1: seeing there that you thought really helped this this rotation
6:00
Speaker 1: in the early part of the season.
6:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean you can see adjustments that Miles
6:05
Speaker 3: has made as he's trying to attack hitters.
6:07
Speaker 2: I'm not going to broadcast that.
6:09
Speaker 3: People can, especially our opponents can do their own homework
6:12
Speaker 3: there to see if they can figure that out. But
6:14
Speaker 3: that's not easy, you know, midstream, that's not easy at all.
6:19
Speaker 3: So again each guy has had something. Again, I don't
6:24
Speaker 3: want to put their strategy and their game plan out
6:28
Speaker 3: there because I think that's somewhat confidential to what they're
6:31
Speaker 3: trying to do. And I don't know there's a lot
6:33
Speaker 3: of value in that for us. But I just know
6:36
Speaker 3: giving them that space to feel like I don't have
6:40
Speaker 3: to just rush right into this next outing has been incredible.
6:43
Speaker 3: They've all found some leverage opportunities inside of that. And
6:48
Speaker 3: again you can't discount the just the extra day as well.
6:53
Speaker 3: Like they we may only be throwing ten or fifteen
6:55
Speaker 3: more pitches in their side, but it is a higher
6:57
Speaker 3: intensity and to have an extra day to recover from
6:59
Speaker 3: that think's really important.
7:01
Speaker 2: And again to.
7:02
Speaker 3: Ali's credit, I don't know that a lot of managers
7:06
Speaker 3: would be enthusiastic about this because it is a little
7:08
Speaker 3: high maintenance, you know, like you do have to bring
7:10
Speaker 3: somebody like Matsy in and out of a starting role.
7:13
Speaker 3: We knew and have seen him manage that well, which
7:16
Speaker 3: is why we thought like that is certainly a big
7:19
Speaker 3: piece to this puzzle. Early was knowing that he's bounced
7:23
Speaker 3: from bullpen roll starting role and seemingly been unaffected by
7:28
Speaker 3: that in a good way.
7:31
Speaker 2: Him being able to give us that range has been helpful,
7:35
Speaker 2: but Ali signing off.
7:36
Speaker 3: On it and being a supporter of you know what
7:39
Speaker 3: this can do for us as we get through the
7:41
Speaker 3: course of a season.
7:42
Speaker 2: We saw it a little bit last year as well.
7:44
Speaker 2: But it's not convenient.
7:47
Speaker 3: You know, your bullpen does become short in a few
7:49
Speaker 3: games if Mats has to jump in. We are calling
7:52
Speaker 3: guys up to take some of these spots starts, So
7:54
Speaker 3: it's certainly not the most convenient process. But when you
7:57
Speaker 3: look at the return on investment with that extra day
8:00
Speaker 3: and given these guys an opportunity to demonstrate what they're
8:05
Speaker 3: great at, I think it just doubles down on that.
8:08
Speaker 1: You guys, the Cardinal's high maintenance. You don't say, never
8:11
Speaker 1: heard that before, no comment, no comfort, But it did
8:15
Speaker 1: work and to your point, and I think this is
8:17
Speaker 1: why we saw Michael McGreevey take that spot start against
8:20
Speaker 1: LA And I know Allie hinted at well more hinted
8:23
Speaker 1: than that he would take another one because it had
8:26
Speaker 1: for Steven Mats to do what he did and come
8:28
Speaker 1: in and take in that role. It is a lot.
8:31
Speaker 1: It does deplete your bullpen a little bit at the
8:34
Speaker 1: you know so, but it also helps rotation as you
8:37
Speaker 1: pointed out, So you're just kind of picking your poison
8:39
Speaker 1: on which area of your pitching side that you want
8:41
Speaker 1: to be depleted at any given time. Now that we've
8:43
Speaker 1: seen McGreevy a couple more time a couple times this
8:46
Speaker 1: year and he continues to impress, it does seem like
8:49
Speaker 1: there is a more clear path and a path that
8:51
Speaker 1: makes more sense into how you can keep using this
8:54
Speaker 1: schedule for as long as you can because McGreevy is
8:56
Speaker 1: now able to take these spot starts and you can
8:58
Speaker 1: leave Matts in the bullpen.
9:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some value in that, no question.
9:02
Speaker 3: He's a massive weapon for us to be able to
9:05
Speaker 3: bring into that type of opportunity.
9:07
Speaker 2: Also as the.
9:08
Speaker 3: Year goes on, you would so when you think about
9:11
Speaker 3: it early, when you look at the majority of pitching
9:14
Speaker 3: injuries being between spring training in May, like, that's where
9:17
Speaker 3: I think you're getting the most return on this strategy.
9:22
Speaker 3: Not that we won't continue to get that because there's
9:24
Speaker 3: always an opportunity to improve on something, but being able
9:29
Speaker 3: to cover that window where we see this injury spike
9:32
Speaker 3: every year. You know, as you're ramping into seventy eighty
9:37
Speaker 3: ninety pitches in spring training and then you throw ninety
9:39
Speaker 3: to one hundred for the course of the month of April,
9:43
Speaker 3: and then you do the same thing in May. Like
9:45
Speaker 3: at that point, as the season continues, as long as
9:49
Speaker 3: you haven't had you know, we've seen had some rain outs,
9:51
Speaker 3: obviously crazy amount of that, but like these guys aren't
9:56
Speaker 3: continuing to push that threshold more so, it's easier to
10:00
Speaker 3: adapt to that workload when you're not constantly pushing it
10:04
Speaker 3: through a new layer each time out. So once you
10:07
Speaker 3: get through a couple months, is there value in staying
10:10
Speaker 3: in a six day Sure? Is it as risky to
10:15
Speaker 3: not do it? I think as the season progresses and
10:18
Speaker 3: as you adapt to that workload as a starter more often,
10:21
Speaker 3: you can have some more flexibility of being in a
10:23
Speaker 3: five day.
10:25
Speaker 1: It's good stuff from Cardinal's pitching coach, Dusty Blake. We'll
10:28
Speaker 1: be back to touch on just a random assortment of
10:31
Speaker 1: pictures in our next segment, but first, our first spunter
10:34
Speaker 1: of the day, a message from Chubby's crats.
10:36
Speaker 4: You look different today? Do I see chubby shorts on
10:39
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10:40
Speaker 2: Oh?
10:41
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11:26
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11:29
Speaker 4: survey asks and get ready to turn some heads. Summer's here,
11:32
Speaker 4: dressed like it in chubbies.
11:37
Speaker 1: Okay, super important question which picture? Actually? Which player on
11:41
Speaker 1: the team is most likely to wear those shorts?
11:48
Speaker 2: I mean I could see, I can see my I
11:50
Speaker 2: mean Miles has a.
11:51
Speaker 3: Broad range of what he's willing to invest in his wardrobe,
11:56
Speaker 3: so I could see him having no problem with that.
11:58
Speaker 1: That was a very nice wavepl I mean Miles uh
12:01
Speaker 1: style choices.
12:02
Speaker 2: Hey, I respect it. I respect it.
12:04
Speaker 3: He's got his own way of doing it, and there's
12:07
Speaker 3: a lot to be said for that.
12:09
Speaker 1: No, he's definitely not shy, uh and is not afraid
12:12
Speaker 1: to make a statement. I know that about mine thinking
12:14
Speaker 1: like maybe polane, but I think everyone would make fun
12:17
Speaker 1: of him if he did that. But I also like,
12:19
Speaker 1: I think they're making fun of him regardless. We just
12:21
Speaker 1: had Plante and Levi on the show, and uh, it's
12:25
Speaker 1: it's nice to see how he's just embraced the role
12:27
Speaker 1: of just always being he joked about.
12:31
Speaker 3: It's he's becoming more confident in who he is and
12:35
Speaker 3: it's and it's okay that he.
12:38
Speaker 2: Just hear it.
12:40
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let's let's talk about some of your pictures here.
12:43
Speaker 1: We'll start with Ryan Helsley, who has been a hot
12:45
Speaker 1: topic of sorts over the last ten days. You know,
12:49
Speaker 1: he did I think he blew four total saves last
12:52
Speaker 1: year was phenomenal, just blew three in a row, so
12:55
Speaker 1: pretty uncharacteristic. We talked a little bit about this in
12:57
Speaker 1: the last episode about the fact ball usage for Hellsley.
13:02
Speaker 1: What are you seeing? I mean, obviously a posy hitter
13:04
Speaker 1: is are tea and off on it. The hard contact
13:06
Speaker 1: rate has been there all season long. What are you
13:08
Speaker 1: seeing with Helsley's pitch mix, his fastball usage, and what
13:11
Speaker 1: are you working on with him?
13:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, there there's a lot that you can look at
13:16
Speaker 3: with that, you know, So I would start with early
13:22
Speaker 3: in the season.
13:23
Speaker 2: There were some things in his movement pattern due to some.
13:29
Speaker 3: Working through ramp up spring training, things that we call
13:32
Speaker 3: that he's had to adjust as he worked through like April,
13:35
Speaker 3: and he did a fantastic job of that.
13:39
Speaker 2: If you look at.
13:39
Speaker 3: Him for the last thirty days, I think his punch
13:42
Speaker 3: out rates thirty two percent, his walk rate is four percent,
13:46
Speaker 3: and that's going to be near the top of the
13:48
Speaker 3: league in both of those categories. That's what gives him
13:51
Speaker 3: the best chance. You have a couple of those blown
13:56
Speaker 3: saves where the difference was two singles that hit first base.
14:02
Speaker 2: You know.
14:02
Speaker 3: I know the Babbitt has been talked about the shape
14:06
Speaker 3: and the type of you can look at exit velocity,
14:09
Speaker 3: but you have to include launch angle and how we're
14:11
Speaker 3: looking at that as well, when you look at the
14:14
Speaker 3: type of contact, the chances of his babboit of the
14:19
Speaker 3: course of May was they went ten for twenty on
14:22
Speaker 3: his fastball.
14:24
Speaker 2: Are there situation? What's that right? It's not.
14:29
Speaker 3: But similar to some other guys on our team that
14:32
Speaker 3: had low babbots early like those aren't going to sustain
14:35
Speaker 3: like it won't, in my opinion, be a thing for
14:38
Speaker 3: that to be able to hold over the course of
14:39
Speaker 3: the year. Once you look at it and again including
14:43
Speaker 3: the launch angle and the type of contact that's being made.
14:47
Speaker 3: Are there strategies that teams may be using to look
14:51
Speaker 3: at that pitch more like potentially he's always in his
14:55
Speaker 3: career thrown that a little bit more early in the
14:58
Speaker 3: count and thrown his slider a little bit more later
15:00
Speaker 3: in the count.
15:01
Speaker 2: There are opportunities for him to mix more curve balls.
15:04
Speaker 3: I would say the one area that didn't necessarily hurt
15:09
Speaker 3: us routinely, but that has come up in a small
15:12
Speaker 3: sample as he is throwing that pitch a lot when
15:14
Speaker 3: he gets behind in the count, more so than he's
15:16
Speaker 3: done in the past.
15:17
Speaker 2: So that's an area that's been addressed. But but in general.
15:21
Speaker 3: You know, we know what's coming out of his hand
15:24
Speaker 3: right now is at a really high level. It's frustrating
15:27
Speaker 3: when you don't get the result on the field that
15:29
Speaker 3: you want. The thing that doesn't get talked about.
15:33
Speaker 1: Uh.
15:34
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying this does or doesn't have an impact,
15:36
Speaker 3: but in a couple of those games, we are not
15:40
Speaker 3: in the lead and he's not in the game until
15:42
Speaker 3: two outs on the off side. So there is a
15:48
Speaker 3: balance between me. He's down there moving, he's down there throwing.
15:51
Speaker 3: But if if every time he got hot when you
15:55
Speaker 3: know the tying run were on deck, but he's not
15:58
Speaker 3: making it through the season. So there is some management
16:01
Speaker 3: in all right, being close enough to being ready to
16:05
Speaker 3: come into a game, which I think he's done a
16:07
Speaker 3: good job.
16:07
Speaker 2: It's just it's not something they get to practice a lot.
16:09
Speaker 3: He came in, he threw strikes, he challenged guys, but
16:13
Speaker 3: that is a tough scenario too. On top of everything else,
16:15
Speaker 3: when you take the lead with two outs, the next
16:17
Speaker 3: guy doesn't get on base, and now you're in the
16:20
Speaker 3: game less than a minute after you just took the lead.
16:23
Speaker 3: And to his credit again didn't give up the lead
16:28
Speaker 3: or we didn't give up the tie.
16:29
Speaker 2: At least we didn't trail, and I.
16:33
Speaker 3: Know that it's frustrating when you don't get those results,
16:37
Speaker 3: and that's part of what we're going to keep digging
16:39
Speaker 3: in on. But I think the scenarios where those have
16:41
Speaker 3: happened would I would say, if he continues to make
16:45
Speaker 3: some small adjustments with his usage, that we'll see what
16:49
Speaker 3: we're used to seeing most often as we keep moving forward.
16:53
Speaker 1: That's such a good point and honestly, something I didn't
16:55
Speaker 1: really think too much about because with these comeback cardinals,
16:59
Speaker 1: I mean personally, I don't start writing stories when you
17:01
Speaker 1: guys are trailing until the eighth inning, because that's usually
17:03
Speaker 1: when this offense makes a push. And specifically I remember
17:08
Speaker 1: Toronto both two games, Dance the Dodgers. Those things happened quickly.
17:12
Speaker 1: The lead change of scenario changed very quickly in the
17:14
Speaker 1: bottom of the eighth and it is not a lot
17:15
Speaker 1: of time for your closer to amp up and get ready. Obviously,
17:18
Speaker 1: Helsey's a professional, and you and Julio and KT and
17:21
Speaker 1: poge I'll do a great job of communicating that. But
17:25
Speaker 1: I think it's easy to just look at Helsey's usage
17:28
Speaker 1: from a two week window and say, okay, three blown
17:30
Speaker 1: saves and a rub that's not good. But the scenarios
17:33
Speaker 1: where those happened, I mean one was a single off
17:37
Speaker 1: the bag that.
17:37
Speaker 3: Led to you know, yeah, I didn't want to make excuses,
17:41
Speaker 3: but yeah, like it's it's hard for those things to
17:44
Speaker 3: feel like they're going to be routine as far as
17:46
Speaker 3: a strategy team's using a strategy to hit a ground
17:49
Speaker 3: ball off second base won't be a routine thing.
17:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he punched out three of that inning. Usually
17:53
Speaker 1: that's that's great. So I understand. I think there's always
17:57
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of focus on the closer
17:59
Speaker 1: role matter what, because that is, you know, that decides
18:02
Speaker 1: the game. But I'm not ready personally to press the
18:05
Speaker 1: panic button on Helsley yet. The metrics are the same,
18:08
Speaker 1: the vlo is the same, spin is the same, just
18:11
Speaker 1: getting hit a little bit harder. So that's me telling
18:15
Speaker 1: I've been having to do a lot of therapy sessions
18:16
Speaker 1: on Cardinals territory over the last week. So that's it.
18:19
Speaker 1: Just everyone relaxed about Helsley. Well, we'll revisit this in
18:22
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks or so. For Matthew Libertor, And
18:27
Speaker 1: this is a question that's come up a little bit
18:29
Speaker 1: more frequently as the season goes on with all e
18:32
Speaker 1: during our pregame sessions. But I mean, we've gone on
18:35
Speaker 1: and on about how intentional you guys were with giving
18:37
Speaker 1: him a starting role, establishing that role as a consistent one,
18:41
Speaker 1: and really giving him the opportunity to be a legitimate
18:43
Speaker 1: major league starter at the same time, and you know
18:46
Speaker 1: there's going to be ups and downs, and Libby's going
18:48
Speaker 1: through a little bit of a down part right now.
18:50
Speaker 1: That's part of the season, that's part of the adjustment
18:52
Speaker 1: period that you've all pledged to. But how are you
18:55
Speaker 1: looking at monitoring his innings going forward because he is
18:58
Speaker 1: on pace to have a career high in major leaguetings.
19:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's a couple of things in play there.
19:04
Speaker 3: I tend to evaluate pitches throwing more than innings. Some
19:11
Speaker 3: guys can have eight to ten pitch innings, other guys
19:14
Speaker 3: can have higher pitches person So I think you can.
19:18
Speaker 2: Get a little bit of the gray area when you're
19:21
Speaker 2: looking at just innings pitch.
19:23
Speaker 3: If you're looking at just total in game pitches, I
19:24
Speaker 3: think that's really what evaluates the workload the best.
19:28
Speaker 2: So that's one thing we're looking at.
19:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a pace that he's working at right now
19:34
Speaker 3: that we have some ideas and how to make sure
19:37
Speaker 3: we can extend his season without having to cut him.
19:40
Speaker 2: Off or cut him short. I think one thing that's
19:42
Speaker 2: important to remember.
19:43
Speaker 3: This is a guy that has started his most of
19:47
Speaker 3: his career, and so if he stayed at the pace
19:50
Speaker 3: he's at right now, he would only be he would
19:54
Speaker 3: be around or less than fifteen percent plus at the
19:58
Speaker 3: workload he had twenty three, I want to.
20:01
Speaker 2: Say, which is not a long time ago.
20:04
Speaker 3: So he's built up to a pretty high workload over
20:07
Speaker 3: one hundred innings as recent as twenty three. So being
20:11
Speaker 3: able to readapt to that after last year not quite
20:15
Speaker 3: the same category as somebody that's just taken a guy
20:20
Speaker 3: that's been in the bullpen for three or four years
20:22
Speaker 3: and saying we're going to now make this a starter.
20:25
Speaker 2: Libby got a lot of work in twenty three.
20:27
Speaker 3: He's been a high workload guy the majority of his career,
20:31
Speaker 3: so we really last year is probably more of a
20:33
Speaker 3: one off in the workload than what this year.
20:35
Speaker 2: Would be for him.
20:37
Speaker 1: Makes sense, and I think that's something that Ollie has
20:39
Speaker 1: echoed as well. The difference between innings quality innings, pitches,
20:42
Speaker 1: quality pitches. Yeah. I message to see how Libby continues
20:46
Speaker 1: this month and hopefully gets back on track. One last
20:48
Speaker 1: pitcher I want to talk about. In spring training, I
20:51
Speaker 1: remember sitting down with a bunch of the coaches and
20:53
Speaker 1: going through what I thought the bullpen would look like.
20:55
Speaker 1: And I did not have Kyle Leahy on my list,
20:58
Speaker 1: and all three of yours and pitching coaches said I
21:01
Speaker 1: need to talk to you because Kyle lay was your guy.
21:05
Speaker 1: And after I remember speaking with you and you told
21:08
Speaker 1: me to look at a bunch of different things for
21:09
Speaker 1: Kyle Lahey and I said, oh, wow, I'm really not
21:11
Speaker 1: that smart because.
21:12
Speaker 2: He should be in the bullpen.
21:14
Speaker 1: And I know that's someone that you poured a lot
21:15
Speaker 1: of time and investments in. When you see what Kyle
21:18
Speaker 1: lay is capable of doing, what, how have you evaluated
21:21
Speaker 1: him as a reliever so far? And what do you
21:22
Speaker 1: think is next for him?
21:25
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the first thing for young guys
21:26
Speaker 2: that's always tough is.
21:31
Speaker 3: Like this is their dream and it's so hard not
21:35
Speaker 3: to protect against what got you here or what got
21:39
Speaker 3: you this opportunity. And this doesn't just I mean there's
21:42
Speaker 3: several young guys in our bullpen that have this mentality,
21:46
Speaker 3: which is part of what's helped him.
21:47
Speaker 2: But they're they're of the.
21:49
Speaker 3: Growth mindset, so they're not trying to hide from the
21:53
Speaker 3: bad things that may happen during a game.
21:55
Speaker 2: Or during a performance.
21:56
Speaker 3: They don't want to just think about only good things
21:59
Speaker 3: that happen and then if I stay positive, this will
22:02
Speaker 3: go my way.
22:03
Speaker 2: They're all adaptable.
22:05
Speaker 3: Kyle certainly falls in line with that, and I think,
22:08
Speaker 3: as a guy that had not pitched up here a lot,
22:10
Speaker 3: to have that mindset, I think was impressive for me
22:14
Speaker 3: early he has been able to make small adjustments to
22:19
Speaker 3: his pitch shape. He's certainly motivated to continue to find
22:24
Speaker 3: daily improvement and find edges that give him a better
22:28
Speaker 3: advantage moving forward. He's curious, and again I think those
22:32
Speaker 3: things just put him in the conversation with a big
22:35
Speaker 3: league pitcher.
22:36
Speaker 2: And again it's not saying that our other guys don't
22:39
Speaker 2: demonstrate that.
22:39
Speaker 3: It was just something that was pretty palpable being around
22:43
Speaker 3: him early on before he had a lot of opportunities
22:47
Speaker 3: up here. And when you see guys like that, the
22:49
Speaker 3: biggest thing is they get better. Like they just they
22:52
Speaker 3: will improve every inning you give them. In spring Train,
22:55
Speaker 3: and every opportunity you give them in a game, good
22:57
Speaker 3: or bad, like they will improve as a by product
23:00
Speaker 3: of that. You don't always see it immediately, you know,
23:04
Speaker 3: you can think of it like if your goal is
23:08
Speaker 3: to melt an ice cube. You know you can get
23:09
Speaker 3: the room from ten degrees to twenty degrees to thirty
23:12
Speaker 3: degrees and you won't see any progress, but you've made progress,
23:15
Speaker 3: and then now you get to thirty, you're only a
23:18
Speaker 3: couple degrees away from really starting to see the return
23:21
Speaker 3: on all that work. That's kind of a way here,
23:25
Speaker 3: along with several other guys, like that's their approach, like
23:27
Speaker 3: they're going to constantly be working on things. You may
23:29
Speaker 3: not see it in the next outing, but there will
23:33
Speaker 3: be a return on that over time. And guys who
23:35
Speaker 3: find a way to continue to get better with their
23:37
Speaker 3: opportunities and don't just try to protect against success because
23:41
Speaker 3: sometimes there's a lot of.
23:42
Speaker 2: That as pictures you don't control.
23:45
Speaker 3: I think give you the mental edge that you need
23:48
Speaker 3: to be competitive up here, and then stuff wise, like
23:50
Speaker 3: what's coming out is hands pretty good.
23:53
Speaker 1: I swear every time I talked to you, you hit
23:55
Speaker 1: me with a different analogy. I'm like where is this going?
23:57
Speaker 1: And then you've better the analogy and I'm like, oh
23:59
Speaker 1: that it actually made a ton of sense. Yeah, so
24:02
Speaker 1: good stuff. Well, today we're gonna take a quick thirty
24:04
Speaker 1: second break as we hear from Arena Club, and then
24:06
Speaker 1: we'll wrap up with pitching coach Dusty Blake. We'll be
24:08
Speaker 1: right back.
24:09
Speaker 4: I just want to say, before Arena Club, if you
24:11
Speaker 4: were trying to very actively buy sell trade, it was
24:16
Speaker 4: very complicated and used a lot of mail that was unnecessary.
24:19
Speaker 5: I don't know I even know how to do it,
24:20
Speaker 5: but I'm glad we have Arena Club now because it's
24:22
Speaker 5: a one stop shop for everything card related.
24:24
Speaker 4: It is and right now you can get twenty percent
24:27
Speaker 4: off your first slab pack or your first card purchase
24:29
Speaker 4: by going to Arena club dot com. Slash foul, use
24:33
Speaker 4: code foul. If you're a collector, you've got to check
24:37
Speaker 4: out Arena Club.
24:38
Speaker 2: Go get after it.
24:40
Speaker 1: Those are guys up at foul Territory. And speaking of
24:42
Speaker 1: foul Territory, Dusty, your bestie Allie Marmel is joining the
24:46
Speaker 1: Foul Territory gang today. So for those of you watching,
24:48
Speaker 1: you can catch it live or you can rewind. Should
24:51
Speaker 1: be some good stuff. I actually do remember him telling
24:53
Speaker 1: me yesterday he was doing that, and then I completely forgot.
24:56
Speaker 1: So there we are, all right, Dusty, before I let you,
25:00
Speaker 1: because you do have to get to the ballpark. A
25:02
Speaker 1: big start for Eric Fetti. You've been with the organization
25:07
Speaker 1: since twenty twenty one, took over as pitching coach, had
25:10
Speaker 1: pitching coach in twenty twenty three when you not not
25:14
Speaker 1: a great year for really anyone, twenty twenty three, but
25:18
Speaker 1: there were a ton of difficulties that I think you
25:20
Speaker 1: had to face behind the scenes. One being that was
25:23
Speaker 1: the first year that Baseball expanded their schedule, so we
25:26
Speaker 1: were no longer playing the Division eighteen times. You were
25:28
Speaker 1: really scouting twenty nine other organizations. You were doing so
25:33
Speaker 1: with a limited staff because when Mike Maddox moved on,
25:36
Speaker 1: you were promoted to his spot, and while you did
25:38
Speaker 1: get some help from our pal Packie Elkins, the game
25:40
Speaker 1: planning coach, no one backfilled your role. So it was
25:45
Speaker 1: basically double up, not triple, the amount of work and
25:48
Speaker 1: a time where the team itself was really struggling. So
25:51
Speaker 1: I can't imagine twenty twenty three was like the most
25:53
Speaker 1: fun year for you.
25:54
Speaker 2: But showed their confidence in me to do a lot. Yeah,
26:00
Speaker 2: take it all, and anytime you struggle, you get something
26:03
Speaker 2: out of it.
26:04
Speaker 3: So there were certainly frustrating times with that season, but
26:07
Speaker 3: we are better off with our plan and process now
26:11
Speaker 3: having gone through that.
26:13
Speaker 1: So how have you seen that plan develop over the
26:17
Speaker 1: last two and a half seasons, because as we sit
26:20
Speaker 1: here now in twenty twenty five, it looks like the
26:22
Speaker 1: Cardinals pitching picture is in a much better spot.
26:25
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, there's you can't discount.
26:28
Speaker 3: Obviously, Julio was with me in twenty three and was
26:31
Speaker 3: a great resource for us continuing to communicate and how
26:36
Speaker 3: to navigate the season day by day, month by month
26:40
Speaker 3: better as we went adding Dean key Caver to our staff.
26:46
Speaker 3: It doesn't he's like a Swiss army knife. It's not
26:49
Speaker 3: just you know, one thing that he's invested in with us.
26:53
Speaker 3: But a primary part of his role is to create
26:56
Speaker 3: kind of an outline of an advanced scout and wholly
27:01
Speaker 3: help with that, and then KT actually helps with that
27:02
Speaker 3: sum as well. But the time it takes like every
27:06
Speaker 3: game I'm going to have a plan for our starting pitcher.
27:10
Speaker 3: We're gonna be great at what we're good at We're
27:11
Speaker 3: gonna lean into our strengths. We're gonna know what those
27:15
Speaker 3: guys may struggle with and where to mix in some
27:18
Speaker 3: of the supporting pitches in our arsenal. We do the
27:22
Speaker 3: same thing with our relievers, where we're gonna meet with them,
27:25
Speaker 3: go through the lineup to make sure, okay, we've got
27:27
Speaker 3: a generic report. It's good to know kind of what
27:29
Speaker 3: this hitter's personality is. It is important to have that,
27:33
Speaker 3: but then to individualize it with each guy's what's so
27:36
Speaker 3: massively important as well, like the overall kind of get
27:41
Speaker 3: generic reporse more to just give us a profile on
27:43
Speaker 3: who this guy is, what he wants to do. If
27:46
Speaker 3: it's something that we do well, well, we'll take our
27:49
Speaker 3: chances because typically it's going to go our way if
27:52
Speaker 3: it's what our strength is. But in general, like the
27:55
Speaker 3: the laborious, you know, time frame of putting that report together,
28:01
Speaker 3: it's ours on hours and for Dean to kind of
28:05
Speaker 3: step in and take a big part of that responsibility
28:08
Speaker 3: just freeze me up to be I guess more global
28:12
Speaker 3: and how I'm managing this role, which gives me way
28:16
Speaker 3: more opportunities to have space to address like the more
28:19
Speaker 3: meaningful things.
28:20
Speaker 2: That are right in front of us.
28:22
Speaker 1: Well, so far, so good. I think this year the
28:25
Speaker 1: rotation specifically has maybe overperformed projections. I'm not saying who
28:30
Speaker 1: projected them to be low. Definitely not me. Never and
28:34
Speaker 1: the bullpen, you know, when you have such a good bullpen,
28:36
Speaker 1: a lights out in twenty twenty four to be able
28:39
Speaker 1: to find someone of the same success, I mean that
28:41
Speaker 1: relief corporately carried you guys in May. Like we talked
28:44
Speaker 1: about the beginning of the show, June was going to
28:46
Speaker 1: be tough, it was going to be a stretch. I
28:47
Speaker 1: don't think we're at the like, tear everything down in
28:49
Speaker 1: panic level. I think these are kind of the highs
28:51
Speaker 1: and lows of the baseball season. But it is really
28:54
Speaker 1: interesting to see how this pitch is developed, and it's
28:56
Speaker 1: ahead of the curve in my opinion at this point
28:59
Speaker 1: this season. Howd to you, guys.
29:00
Speaker 2: You do a nice job doing our best, and inevitably
29:04
Speaker 2: you have up and downs throughout the season. You're not
29:06
Speaker 2: going to dodge that.
29:07
Speaker 3: So it's just making sure you stay connected to the
29:10
Speaker 3: things that give you the best chance to be successful.
29:12
Speaker 3: And as we're noticing trends, like we said, we're finding
29:15
Speaker 3: the right ways to adapt to those things.
29:17
Speaker 2: As we go.
29:18
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully we see some success from Eric Fetti tonight.
29:21
Speaker 1: Cardinals could really use to get back in the win column.
29:25
Speaker 1: That would be that'd be good for the Saint Louis Club,
29:27
Speaker 1: So we'll keep our fingers crossed. DOSSI thank you so
29:29
Speaker 1: much for doing this. I know I ask you for
29:31
Speaker 1: a lot, and I know it's you have such a
29:35
Speaker 1: busy day going on, and so for you to take
29:37
Speaker 1: any kind of time, I really do appreciate it. Cardinal Territory,
29:40
Speaker 1: we will be back at the end of the series.
29:43
Speaker 1: I believe Ernie will be back with me, and hopefully
29:46
Speaker 1: we're previewing at least a serious split. We'll find out though.
29:50
Speaker 1: For Dusty Blake, I'm Katie who thanks as always for
29:51
Speaker 1: watching Cardinal Territory. We'll be back very soon.