Latest / I Choose Me with Jennie Garth / I Choose...To Leave A Life That No Longer Serves Me with Holly Madison

Transcript

I Choose...To Leave A Life That No Longer Serves Me with Holly Madison · I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the choices we make and where they lead us. On
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: this podcast, I want to talk to people that exemplify
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: strength and bravery. Being courageous and standing up for yourself
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: can be one of the hardest things you can do.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: My guest today is incredibly strong and brave. You know
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: her from being Hugh Hefner's number one girlfriend, which was
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: captured on the wildly successful reality show The Girl's Next Door,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: and her books Down the Rabbit Hole and The Vegas Diaries.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: She co hosts the podcast Girls Next Level, and you
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: can catch the new season of her show The Playboy
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Murders on ID and streaming on Max. May fifth, Please
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: welcome Holly Madison to the podcast. Hello beautiful, so nice
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: to meet you you too.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I'm such a huge fan. I love nine oh two
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: one oh so much.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, thank you, thank you.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I'm really happy to talk to you today because even
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: though our journeys have been very different, we are both
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: independent women and there are most likely a lot of
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: similarities between us. Then, yeah, a lot of people welcomed
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you into their homes when you are on the Girls
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: next Door reality show, And I cannot even believe that
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: it has been twenty years since that show.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so crazy.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, does that seem like a totally different lifetime for you?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent it does. It's so weird, Like, I
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: can't believe it's been twenty years since it debuted now,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: And you know, Bridget and I have a podcast where
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: we rewatch and we talk about the show a little bit,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: and it's just crazy just how much just culture has
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: changed too, and little things like I'm sure when you
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: watch your show too, you notice things that you're like,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: we even did that back then, right.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's certain things that went down that you could
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: never do now on a TV show totally. I'm sure
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: you see that with your show.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. We'll be watching scenes and I'm like,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I don't think you could do a scene like this, because,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: especially for reality TV in the two thousands, it was
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: really just kind of showing a person's lifestyle. You didn't
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: have to have that much plot or drama. So sometimes
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: I'll be watching it and I'm like, this is cute
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and all, but I don't think you could do this now,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: because like, nothing's really happening in the scene.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Right, where's the plot?
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: So what's coxactly?
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Before we get into life at the mansion, I want
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: to find out about your upbringing. What did you want
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: to be when you were growing up.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I think the first thing I wanted to be when
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I was super super little and didn't really know what
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: that meant was I wanted to be Alice in Wonderland.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I thought you could pick a character and be that.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: But once I knew what a job was, I kind
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: of was all over the place, Like I wanted to
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: be a writer. I wanted to be in the entertainment industry.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't really know. I just kind of wanted to
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: get out there and do something. And as I got older,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I was in college, I transferred down to Loyal La
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Mary Mount in LA, and I knew I wanted to
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: be in the entertainment industry in some capacity, but I
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: didn't really know what.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: But you had entertainment industry on your mind, Like did
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: you want to be famous?
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I did for some reason, and I think it's because
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I always had a hard time like relating to people
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: and like bonding to other people, and I had this weird,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: immature idea that if you were famous and people felt
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: connected to you in that parasocial way, that was like
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: a shortcut to connecting with people. And you know, spoiler alert,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: it's not. But I think that was kind of what
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I was thinking deep down. And I was a double
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: major in theater in psychology, and I'd always you know,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: loved like the women of Playboy, like Pamela Anderson and
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Anna Nicole, and I always kind of knew my journey
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: was probably going to start there and that was maybe
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: going to be my foot in the door, and I
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: didn't know it would turn into such like a bigger
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: thing than I thought it was going to be.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: You know, it seems so familiar that what you're saying,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: because it was the same way for me with Beverly
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Hills Nina Twoina. I had no idea that that would
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: lead me to the life that I've gotten to live.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: And I wondered at the same time, like, do you
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: get tired of talking about the past or you know
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: kind of where you started? Because for me, I have
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I can see how people would say, oh, I want
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: to be known for something else, or I wish I
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: could shake that, but I can't and that's the fact,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And so I have embraced it to the point where
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I love talking about it because it got me everything
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: that I have Now, I wouldn't be you who I
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: am totally.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I went through a phase where I wanted nothing
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: to do with it. This was maybe like I left
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: the Mansion and Girls next Door. I'd done my own
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: spin off show for a couple of years, and right
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: after that, I was like, I just want to go
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: a completely different direction. I don't want to be associated
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: with Playboy or have anybody remember that at all. But
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: that's like such a losing game, like nobody's ever going
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: to So I learned pretty quickly that that's like like
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: the fight you can't win. And also because the reality
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: show is presenting me as myself and people thought they
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: were seeing my real life, but there was a lot
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: about it that was manipulated. I never kind of run
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: out of moments where I want to set the record straight.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: So I really don't be sick of talking about it
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: because of that. I'm curious, because I'm such a huge
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: nine h two one zero fan. When you first got
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: that role, did you know it was going to be
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: a show that lasted or did you think, oh, this
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: is just going to be my first thing on the
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: way to something else.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I didn't even think it through at all. I was
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: just so excited to get the opportunity, and you know,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: see what happened. And I don't think any of us
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: knew or expected or thought that it would turn into
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: what it turned into, something that we're all still interested
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: in all these years later. It's crazy, it's so cool,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: but it's really cool. I know. Yeah, so when for
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of us, the first example we have of
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: love is our parents. What kind of relationship did you
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: see your parents having?
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: My parents are still together, they're still married, so they
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: had a great relationship. But one thing I noticed, it's interesting.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: I never saw them fight once growing up, and I've
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: never talked to them about this, but I have to
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: assume they made a decision like we're not going to
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: fight in front of the kids. They're not going to
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: see any of that, which is incredibly admirable. But also
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I grew up with no conflict resolution skills whatever, because
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I never saw it play out. So I'm kind of
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: the one where for the longest time in relationships, if
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: even like a little thing flared up. I'm like, okay,
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: well we're breaking up. Well it's done, you know, yeah,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: that's over. Yeah.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: No, that's really really interesting. And how did you learn
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: how to do conflict? You know, didn't see it.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of my interpersonal skills I've
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: only really recently developed, like within the past five years.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Like I was late diagnosed on the spectrum. So now
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I understand a lot more how I work and how
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I've perceived things differently over the years than maybe anybody
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: else would. So I feel like really only learning to
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: communicate effectively. That's been a very recent journey for me.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Like I was operating as an adult for decades without
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: knowing how to do it, and you know, I would
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: have falling outs with friends every once in a while
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: that would turn to like never speaking again, or you know,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: relationships would end at the first fight because I just
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: didn't know how to do conflict at all.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's scary. Yeah, the communication is key. And I
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: too felt like I was I lost about ten years
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: of very important developmental, you know, normal human time by
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: being on a show that was like, you know, so popular,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and being working so hard for ten years on that show.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like I missed a lot of social things.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting to hear because I feel the
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: exact same way. Of course, my situation was a little
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: bit different, so I was kind of living in this bubble.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: But I'm sure you were so busy you're living in
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: a different bubble. Yeah, But I feel like my twenties,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I wasn't dating like a normal person. I wasn't, you know,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I had this, you know, career being on a reality show,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: but I wasn't going out and making a career the
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: way a normal twenty something would. So for the longest time,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: you know, after I left the Mansion, when I was
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: in my thirties, a lot of my friends would be
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: about ten years younger than me, because that's what I
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: could relate to, had this solid chunk of like arrested development.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, arrested development. Yep, absolutely, I can so relate. Okay,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: so you moved to Los Angeles, you're in college, and
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: you're pursuing a career in entertainment. How does getting invited
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: to the Mansion come about?
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: That happened because I was working for Hawaiian Tropic and
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: at one of the events, Hugh Hefner's doctor came and
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: he was like, Oh, I want to invite all these
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: girls to the next Playboy Mansion party. And I was
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: so excited because back then, this was the year two
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: thousand and back then those were like the cool parties
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: to go to in town that were like really exclusive,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: and I'd heard girls I knew talk about going, but
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't know very many who were invited. So I
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: was so excited to go. And like I said, I
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: was a fan of like some of the women who'd
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: come from Playboy, So I was so excited to go
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: to my first party. I didn't even stay that late
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: that night, it was weird. I just stayed for a
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: couple hours kind of toward the place, and like went
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: home and thought it was like the best night ever.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: And then I got invited to their pool parties, which
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: were much smaller affairs, and you know, hef was at
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: all of those. So I got to know him and
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: his girlfriends a little bit, not very well, not as
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: well as I should have got to know him before
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: making some decisions I was about to make. But you know,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I thought I had a good rapport with them, so
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: and then I moved in after a year later, after
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: you know, being invited to my first party, and I'd
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: been in college and I was kind of trying to
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: do too much. I was a double major. I was
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: on scholarship, so I had to keep my grades up
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: to a certain amount to keep that, and I had
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: to work full time just to pay for like my
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: other bills and things like that, or as close to
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: full time as I could fit in. And then I
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: was also trying to audition and stuff, and it was
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: just trying to do too many things, so I ended
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: up failing at all of them. And I got to
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: a point where I was living with two other people
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and they're like, at the last minute, I thought we
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: were going to resign our lease and they were like,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: we're not, you know, going to resign this. We're like
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: going back home. So I was like, holy shit, I'm
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: not going to have anywhere to live. And I'd been
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: invited out with Helfen the girls before, and I'd always
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: said no just because I saw their whole like multiple
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: girlfriend relationship and thought that looked a little too much
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: for me. But because I had nowhere to live, I
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: was like, you know what, maybe I will go out
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: with them. Because I was at the pool party, like
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: right when this dilemma was going down, and one of
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the butler's was like, you know, one of the girls
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: just got kicked out. There's like an open room here,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know what, maybe I will give
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: this a try. And it turned into you know, the
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: next seven crazy years of my life.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, was there anybody in your life that was telling
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: you not to move in?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: There probably would have been if I had told people,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: But I didn't tell.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Anyone, and you didn't want to hear their opinion.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: No, you know, I knew this was a very snap decision.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: I knew it would be a controversial decision. I just thought,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: you know what, I'm going to look back on this,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: and this is going to be that crazy thing I
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: did in college. I didn't know it was going to
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: turn into a seven year long thing. And even my
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: family they didn't really know what was going on. For
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: years and years. I always kept every Everything I told
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: them was very pg because I was just in the
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: thick of it and in over my head and trying
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: to figure it out for myself. And I knew what
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: everybody would say, but I also knew they probably wouldn't
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: have any advice that would work for me. In the moment.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I found that I did that too. I didn't
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: tell my family all of the details.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes when you're that age, you just kind of
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: want to figure it out for yourself. It's weird.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Do you think they would have advised you not to.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Move in or I mean, Julie would have said something.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: But also I feel like I was always kind of
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: that kid that kind of did what I want. And
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I'm out of the house at that point, and what
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: are they going to do? They don't live anywhere nearby, so.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: You just were like, who, I'm going to do what
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I want. I like that. Yeah, okay, So having I
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: came up in the nineties, and I feel like women
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: were often pitted against one another.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I remember all the you know, whether it
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: was real or not.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the media lists loved to stoke that fire. And
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I was wondering if the atmosphere that you were in
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: at the mansion with that group of women, was it
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the same for you And did the men there help
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: to sort of foster or encourage that competitive nature amongst
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the women.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: It were so bad and it was so bad, like
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: when I first moved in, there were six other women
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: living there and you know, they would come and go,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: So the roster changed a couple times within the first
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: four years I lived there, and nobody got along. It
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: was awful, and I just thought, you know, I had
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: like one other friend there who would be Bridget, who
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: would end up on Girls next door with me. But
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: other than that, I didn't get along with anybody. Everybody
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: was trying to get everybody kicked out, everybody's starting rumors
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: about each other, and I was like, this is just horrible.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't really until after when I would look
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: back on how things went at the mansion, or even
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: right about the time I left, because this was kind
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: of one of the things that made me want to leave.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize that hef was kind of like low
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: key encouraging all.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: That, like pulling the string.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think that was for his ego. He
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: felt good if he felt like the girls were fighting
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: over him. And also, we couldn't get together and ever
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: be like, you know what, we don't feel like going
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: out tonight or you know what, we want to do
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: this like, we couldn't ever get together and you know,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: unionize so to speak, if we were all friends. So
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: it worked to his advantage to keep everybody fighting, and
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: it was just so miserable and stressful, and when I
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: kind of realized that's what's going on, it was kind
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: of the lost straw for me, and you know the
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: reason I left among men any reasons. Yeah, so that
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: was definitely going on. And then when the cast of
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: characters went down to three people, it was just me,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Bridget and Kendra who ended up on the show. You know,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: of course, there's a lot of that in reality TV too.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: They always want to make things look more hostile than
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: they were. The fact of the matter is that Bridget
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: and I had lived through so much drama up to
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: that point that we always tried really really hard for
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: everybody to get along, or if something happened we didn't like,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: we'd just kind of be quiet about it and put
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: up with it. But the show doesn't want that, so
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: they'll take a picture of like me sitting there with
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: a resting bitch face and make it look like I'm
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: giving somebody a dirty look. And then that would continue
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: on even after Girls next Door. Because when Kendra and
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I had our spinoff shows on e they were produced
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: by the same executive producer who did Girls next Door.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Who was very close with hef and even after you know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: he would like pick Kendra and I against each other.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And it's to the point where we still don't speak today.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So it's very, very toxic.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: That is so sad to me. Mm hmmm, because you know,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I know you you probably feel this way too as
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: you get older. As I've gotten older, I realized, like
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: what a waste of my time and energy that was,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and like, right, how much better it feels to lift
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: other women up around me. Yeah, that just changes how
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I feel about myself, how I walk around in the.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: World one hundred percent. It's so stressful being in that
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: conflict all the time. It's like permanent fight or flight,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: especially when you live with the people.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you were dubbed as his number one. Yes, uh,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: and there was quite an age difference, Like yeah, we
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: don't talk about that much, but Hi, he was in
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: his seventies and you were just twenty one. Is that right?
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I was twenty two when I'm twenty two twenty
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: one when I first met him.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: In the early years of getting to know him, I'm
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: just I'm curious, did you think I'm falling in love
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: or was it more like how someone might sort of
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: describe idolizing a cult leader or something.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: It was a little bit of both. I mean, I
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: think in the beginning I very much looked up to him.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: I admired everything he accomplished. He seemed like such a
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: great guy. You know, everybody when they first meet him
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: kind of has that same impression. And you know, you're
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: going up to these pool parties and he's surrounded by
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: all his closest friends who have nothing but glowing things
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: to say about him, and you just think, Wow, this
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: is like an amazing human being. And then you know,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: when I moved in, I had seen from a distance
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: that girls kind of came and went, and he wasn't
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: really settling down with anybody, so I thought I would
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: just be there for a short period of time. But
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: we really bonded, and he was very good at like
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: love bombing and manipulating and things, So it did start
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: to feel like more of a relationship, and I did
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: get very emotionally involved, so I would say like later
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: it felt like falling in love, but it wasn't what
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I had on my mind when I like first came
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: to a party or anything.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Like that you said before, or that the whole concept
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: of going there and having there be other women and
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the whole group didn't really feel right to you. Did
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: you battle with that same feeling a lot during your
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: time there?
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I made it very clear that I didn't
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: like the multiple girlfriend thing. I didn't want it, and
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: he was always like, well, it's not always going to
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: be this way, just like a couple more years and
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: then like a year goes by, and then another year
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: goes by, and like things never change. But he would
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: always talk about like us settling down and things like that,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: and then it just wasn't happening, and then it got
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: to a point where I didn't even want it to happen.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: So I was always very clear that I didn't like
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the multiple relationship thing.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: But it fell on deaf ears.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean he definitely heard me. I
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: just don't think he gave a shit.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: That's even worse. I mean for me, this is where
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: it gets good.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Though.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: You had one of the biggest I choose me moments
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: you left the mansion and in two thousand and eight,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: do you remember when you made that final decision to leave?
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I do, And it was kind of something that happened
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: gradually we were doing the show, which was a huge success,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: and that, you know, I feel like helped my self
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: esteem a little bit because the show wanted to follow
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: us doing different things, so it gave us an excuse
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: because like we had a curfew. We weren't allowed to travel,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: we weren't allowed to do anything once we entered into
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: that relationship. But with the show, we could actually go
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: film somewhere and because the cameras were with us, he'd
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: let us all stay a night somewhere or something like that.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: And then I started working at the Playboy Studio. I
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: was producing and directing all the Playmate of the Month features,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: and I loved that job. It was an amazing job,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: like working with everybody there, working with the different women,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: and I felt like that did so much for my
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: self esteem. And I started to feel because I almost
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: once I moved to the mansion, I felt kind of
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: like crippled before for lack of a better world. I
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: felt like, if I leave here, I'm not going to
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: be able to survive in the real world, which sounds
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: so strange, but it was just the mindset I was
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: locked in. But once I was like doing a career
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and loving it, and you know and I were still
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: like talking about the future, and we actually like were
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: trying to have a baby. We were like doing in
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: vitro and everything, but it wasn't working. And when I
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: realized it wasn't working, I was like, well, I don't
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: know if I can stay here, you know, because I
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: always knew I wanted to be a mom, that was
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: just something that was, you know, a non negotiable for me.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: So that was kind of the first realization I had
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: that I really wanted to leave. And then things just
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: started to get more and more tense between HEF and I.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know what was going on with him at
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: that time. I almost look back at it now, and
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: you know, I've described on my podcast and things like that,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: and a lot of people will chime in, like in
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: the comments on our YouTube or on our Patreon or
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: wherever we communicate with people and say that the way
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: he was behaving almost sounds like the first signs of dementia,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: because I guess sometimes people can get really mean, and
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: not that he'd never been mean before. We'd certainly had
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of issues up to that point, but in
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: the very end, he started getting really mean, kind of
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: out of nowhere over so many things, and I didn't
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: know what that was at the time, and I was
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: just like, I can't do this, I can't handle it,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and I was I had already broke it off with
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: him and leaving in things, but I was still staying
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: in a different room with the mansion to kind of
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: finish filming the season five of the show, and we
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: were called back to do commentary for the last DVD
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: and Kendra was telling the story in front of the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: producer about how, you know, we had been watching a
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: movie in a room and you know, have followed her
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: down to her room and said, well, why didn't you
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: sit next to me here? And she goes, oh, I
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: didn't want to, like move Holly out of the way.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: And he started like stopping his feet and saying he
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: liked the drama and stuff. And that's kind of when
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: everything came together in my head and I realized he's
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: been orchestrating this drama and encouraging it the whole time,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: which was incredibly hurtful to me because he knew how
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: much I hated all the fighting with the other girls
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: and how long it had been going on. So that
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: was definitely like the last straw and kind of like
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: made me lose any feelings spar him and just like
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: cemented my decision to move on.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, once you see somebody for who they truly.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Are, Yeah, you can't unless see it.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: And Yeah, you've opened up in the past about the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: fact that you and he attempted IVF were together. Do
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: you think, looking back now as a mom that you are,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: do you think that not working out was a blessing?
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent? I can't even imagine it. It seems
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: so strange. The want to have kids was old, but
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: it was just the mindset I was in. It's like,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: once I entered into that place, something happened to me
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: where I felt like, I need to make this work
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: or nothing else, and there's nothing else out there for me.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: And you know, I could point to a number of
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: reasons why I think that is, but you know, long
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: story short, that was the mindset I was in. And
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: I'm just so glad everything worked out the way it
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: had because I had the best years of my life
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: after I left the mansion and the best you know,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: career moments and the family moments and everything. So it's
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: just a really good example of how sometimes what you
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: think you want the universe has better.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Plans for you. Yes, I love when that happens. You
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: feel so divinely like supported somehow. Yeah, but you don't
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: feel that in the moment for sure.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: No, not at all.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, just think about how hard it probably would
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: have been for you to leave him if you had
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: a child with him.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it would have been impossible.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: It would have been a whole different life for you.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I'm so happy that didn't wasn't successful.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Okay, So, yeah, we've both been through
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: breakups and divorces, and I know you're newly single, and
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I know for me, each of those you know, big
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: life changing sort of obstacles turned out to be learning
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: opportunities for me. And even if I, you know, didn't
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: see them that way in the moment, I started to
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: recogniz my part in the reoccurring problems, my patterns that
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: are serving me. Have you had some of those sort
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: of revelations along your way.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: To Yeah, absolutely, And I think a lot of it
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: has a lot of like subconscious emotional unavailability, like picking
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: people that I know aren't going to be that available
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: because secretly I don't want to be that available, even
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: though I really think I do. It's a really layered thing.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why do you think in secretly or like deep
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: inside you you don't want to be available?
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I have no idea. It's so weird to think because
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's what I want, you know, But
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: my choices keep telling me that I'm picking people. Either
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: that or I just really like a challenge for no
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: good reason. I don't know.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: When's your birthday?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: December twenty third. I'm a Capricorn.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Capricorn those are very strong ladies. Maybe it is the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: challenge thing.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So Capricorns always have to do things the hard way.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: That's one thing I've noticed. We're very hard workers, but
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: we never take the easy route. It always has to
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: be the hardest one we pick for whatever reason.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I think, can I ask how old
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: you are?
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Forty six?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Forty six? Okay, so you're going to be fifty soon,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: you're going to be joining the club. I felt like
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: for me, after fifty, I realized so much about like
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: what a big, huge part my childhood and my past
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: played into why I was behaving the way I was
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: for so many years, and why I just kept repeating
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: it even though it didn't work, and yeah, like I
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: didn't understand why I kept going back to that empty.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's so weird.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: It's so weird, and you don't have sort of the
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: tools or the understanding on how what your life could
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: be like if you were to do things differently.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. But also, like the catch twenty two
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: of it all is I really think all those bad
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: relationships we went through, like we had to learn something
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: from that too. It was never really a waste of time.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: What do you think that the biggest thing you learned
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: about your last relationship was for yourself.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: My last relationship, it was interesting because I was dating
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: this guy for six years, the last six years, and
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: it was during the time that I got diagnosed like
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: late diagnosed autistic, and he was somebody like we had
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of issues in our relationship, but one thing
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I really liked about him was he very much accepted
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: me for how I was as far as like being
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: an introvert or not being that good with people socially.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: A lot of people when they meet me, they I
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: seem very disengaged and they think I'm stuck up or
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: they think I'm being rude, and I'd had issues in
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: relationships with that before, where guys you know, really didn't
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: like that because they didn't think I was like a
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: business asset because I would go to a dinner with
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: them and They're trying to talk to somebody and I'm
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: not engaging the wife as much as I should be
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: or something, you know what I mean. So it turned
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: into like a big problem. They didn't like that. So
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I was dating this guy who totally accepted me for
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: how I was, and I think that gave me the
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: space to kind of look into why I am the
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: way I am. And he was kind of similar in
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of ways. So it's weird that you would
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: spend six years with somebody and that would be the reason.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: But it's kind of like my takeaway from that. Of
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: course I didn't know it at the time, but I'm like,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: he was kind of the perfect person for what I
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: was going through and what I was learning about myself.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: And also he was so introverted and so like, never
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: wanted to go out and do anything, but I so
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: fully got to indulge that side of my personality that
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I don't want to indulge it as much anymore. So
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: now I feel now that I've learned what I've learned
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: about myself, I feel like I'm so much better equipped
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: to go out and actually work on my social skills
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: and network and do the things I need to do. Right.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you have to put yourself out there as
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: a single woman, a single mom. You've got to, you know,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: keep pushing.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Forward one hundred percent. And for business, especially in the
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: entertainment industry, Like, I'm shocked I'm even working because I
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: never I never networked at all for like the longest time.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Like I went through this phase where I was like,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not leaving the house, you know, back like twelve
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: years ago when I had kids. So I'm shocked I'm
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: even doing things now. But you know now, I don't
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: feel that way, and it's not the way I want
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: to operate.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: So remember in the beginning of the conversation, I told
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: you there's probably a lot of similarities in us. I'm
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: seeing them left and right.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Oh that's so close.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I'm an introvert as well, and I never networked, and
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I've often thought like, oh my gosh. You know, they
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: say you have to be relevant or whatever to keep working.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not relevant. But there's something that has kept me
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: pushing forward so that I can pay my bills, so
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: that I can take care of family. That thing. It's
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: like that's survival instinct, you know, and you know better
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: than anybody that you're on.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Your own kid totally.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I'm quoting a Taylor Swift song there, So I love it. Yeah,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: that's so it's really very interesting, and I would imagine,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: like what a what an impact in really great ways
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: but also in really like not so great ways that
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: time there, in that life, that life where you were
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: living that you stumbled into. What the effects of that
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: were for you for long term and just your sense
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: of self, your sense of you know, being able to
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: feel independent and grounded. It had to have had such
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: a profound effect on you.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird, and it's really layered. Like I can't
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: even point to one thing and be like, oh, I
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: had arrested development because I lived in this bubble. It's
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: like it's that, but it's so many other things too. Also,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: when I exited the relationship, I just kind of wanted
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: to look back on it positively even though there was
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of negative and just like put a bow
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: on it and always talk about it like it was great.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: But that didn't work for me because it wasn't truthful
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't just me looking at my experience and
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: what did I experience and how was it. It's also
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: dealing with like the world's opinion of what my experience
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: was and what it should have been. There was a
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: lot of that to work through too, so interesting.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Like do you feel like what the world thought and
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: wanted got interrupted? It sort of interrupted what you thought
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and what you wanted.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Well on the first difficulty I had with it, I
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: felt was after I left the Mansion. You know, I
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: was on my own doing my own thing, and every
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: day somebody would come up to me in real life,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: whether I was doing a meet and greet after my
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: show or I was just at the local Starbucks or something,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: and they'd be somebody who was probably a fan of
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: the show, and they'd be excited to ask, Oh, how's
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: hell or do you miss the mansion? Or oh, I mean,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: how is everybody? And you know, I hadn't had a
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: great time there, hence me deciding to leave, but I
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: didn't want to disappoint anybody, so as I was like, oh,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: everybody's great, even though I'm thinking of my head, like
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I haven't spoken to that man in years, and every
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: chance he gets he makes a low key snarky comment
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: about me and the media. But I felt this weird
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: responsibility to like still be the cheerleader and still make
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: everything sound like it was great, and it was really
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: creating like a pit in my stomach because you know,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: sometimes people will look at me and be like, oh, well,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: you know you're doing a podcast about the show or
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: you wrote a book about this, like why are you
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: still talking about it? And to them that might seem,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: you know, out of pocket that I'm still talking about it,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: but to me, like they have to understand every single
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: day of my life, I see somebody in the wild
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: who like wants answers or think they know what was
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: going on and stuff, and I think, yeah, I think
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: a lot of people really like bought in to have
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: some of my relationship and were invested in it and
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: wanted us to settle down, and we're disappointed when that
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: didn't happen. But it was a very polarizing relationship and
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: even though the show was beloved, it was also very polarizing.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Like I guess, a really simplified way to look at
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: it is back then. It's like, if you wanted to
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: put it in political terms, like conservatives didn't like us
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: because we were like naked sluts, and then liberals didn't
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: like us because they thought we weren't feminists. So it's
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: like you're kind of getting hate from all sides and people,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know. There were people that loved the show
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: and were mad that I left and the relationship didn't
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: work out, And then there were people who just kind
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: of knew something was wrong, but you know, beneath the surface.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: So it was to navigate.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right, so layered mm hmm. And I
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: too can relate with that, because when you are a
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: part of something that is so iconic, so looked at
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: from other people's perspective as being this amazing, incredible thing,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: either wanting it or hating it, it gets it twists
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: things like for yourself.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it has more of an effect than people would think.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: It's weird.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, dating for anyone really, not just a single mom.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: It's really not for the faint of heart. These days,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I've been there. Do you think you're gonna be ready
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: to date again?
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of like, I can't picture myself like dating,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: so to speak, I'm like a long term relationship girl,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Like if it's like a long term relationship or nothing like.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of at the point in my life where
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: I'm so busy with stuff that I'm like, either it's
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: the one or nothing, Like, I'm not interested in the
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: guy who's kind of hot or he's fun to sleep with,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: or I'm going to date this guy here, and I'm
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: not interested in that capacity. What I like to find
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: love again, yes, But even like with my last relationship,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: which is the only guy I dated since my divorce,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: it was just hard because you know, I don't want
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: to introduce my kids to somebody unless I'm engaged, and
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: then I'm very busy with work. I'm very busy with
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: co parenting, So trying to find a slot in my
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: life to see a guy, even though I ended up
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: being with him for six years and it was quite
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: a serious relationship, from my perspective, it's just it's exhausting,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Like I don't have enough time in the day.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: You know, it takes a lot of work.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. So if it's not the one, I don't
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: have time for it.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: And you've reached the age and you are independent, you're
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: a self made woman, like you're you're having such success now.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I think it just puts things into perspective one hundred percent.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: I just don't have time for it. Like I already
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: have kids, I already have my dream wedding. I don't
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: have these kind of goals I need to check off,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Like I just want the love of my life, you know,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I don't want to waste my time with anything less.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll know, we kind of talked about this earlier,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: how you had that example of love growing up and
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: still do with your parents. Do you think that you
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: have had that in your own relationships yet?
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: No, or I'd still be with that person.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's hard. You know, you want to
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: live up to what your parents had or what you
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: saw as a kid, and any and anything that falls
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: short of that kind of feels like a failure.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Almost totally one hundred percent.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: So you and your girls next door co star bridget
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: how to rewatch podcasts? Like you mentioned, I have a
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: nine or two and oh rewatch podcast with my co
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: star Toy. Yes, and sometimes it's almost tortuous to oh
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: watch yourself.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Right, it's so all over the place. There's like the
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: really torturous cringe moments, but the moments I feel like
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I need to apologize for because I feel like it
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: came off sounding mean about somebody when I didn't mean it.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: And then there's and then sometimes, you know, I will
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: say about my rewatch podcast because I had written a
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: book about my experience at the Mansion, which was very
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: much talking about the negative because I felt like that
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: was the side nobody had seen through Girls next Door.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: But I feel like during the rewatch podcast it allows
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: me more to reclaim like the good times as well,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: like oh, that road trip we did with just the
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: girls was really fun, or you know, these buffet and
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: movie nights were really fun. So that's the positive side
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: of it from my perspective. But yeah, there's a lot
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: of cringe too, and a lot of stuff that, you know,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: we have to point out, like that was totally fake
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and that wasn't the way things really went down.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, when I'm watching myself back and I
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: see that younger me on the on the screen the TV,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I've always like, Wow, look what you did, Look what
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: you survived. You know, I can I know what was
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: going on in your real life during this time for
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: you know in this season of the show, and look,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: look how how far you've come, do you? I mean,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I do can't imagine what it must be like for
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: you to have to rewatch something that was actually the
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: reality of you being in a relationship that caused you trauma,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: like going, do you go back to those feelings?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've worked through a lot of them
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: just from like writing my book and stuff, so it's
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: not completely fresh, but it's hard sometimes, like I will
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: watch things that will piss me off all over again
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: or me upset.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I mean at the end of the day, I'm glad
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: to be out of it, so that's a positive.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And at the end of the day, it was
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: a stepping stone for where you are right now with
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: your two beautiful children.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Totally, and it was, you know, even taking in the
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: negative parts into consideration, like I never wanted an ordinary life,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: and then that's what I got.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: You got an unordinary life. Girl. I'm proud of you.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yes, you have a twelve year old
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: daughter and a nine year old son. Their names are incredible,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Rainbow and Forest, two of my favorite things. Thank you
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: love that you named them that it seems like kids
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: are getting on the internet now and growing up so fast,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: and you know, how do you feel about that with
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: your kids? Like do you are you do you control
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: their access to things that they're seeing on the internet
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: or are you able to?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: We do we? Me and their dad were both very
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: strict about it. They don't have phones, they do have iPads.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: They're limited to an hour a day.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: My daughter loves my gosh, you are you are amazing
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: because I that I wanted to do that, and I
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: never like made it happen, like I was too weak.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I gave in.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: And know it's hard because she all she wants to do.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: You know, she's obviously has other hobbies and things we
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: make her do, but all she wants to do is
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: be on the iPad with her friends. Yeah, it's a
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: lot of fights, but you know, we keep it strict.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they'll get a road trip where they can take
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: their iPad in the car, but then Wi Fi doesn't
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: work the whole time either, So yeah, they only get
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: like an hour of iPad time. And they like to
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: watch things like we'll let them watch shorts on YouTube,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: like on the big TV in the family room, you know,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: on the kid only channel. So they like that. So
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: and sometimes something I'll come through that's a little bit inappropriate,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: but I always you know, pointed out and we laugh
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: about it, and I think, I think things are pretty
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: good so far.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, twelve, we're so good. Twelve is where it
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: starts to get even more challenging because they want to
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: do all the things that their friends are doing. Yeah,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: and then you're like, it's hard to stay strong and
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: be the mean mom that doesn't let them do what
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: everybody else is doing.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Totally one hundred percent.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do your kids want to be in the industry
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: at all?
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Do you know?
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Do they do they have any interest in entertainment of
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: any kind?
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Sometimes my daughter asks about it and I have to
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: tell her, like, I don't think it's fun like you
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: think it is. Like you have to get up really early,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: which you have to sit in a makeup chair for
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: like hours, you know, you have to do a lot
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: of reading, and I don't think it's as fun as
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: you think it is.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but I tell her.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: You know, when you're eighteen, you can do what you want.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: But you do what you want. You are just so beautiful,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: so are you?
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Oh God, are you kidding? You're like the idol of
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: my teenage years. You're like the beautiful woman.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: How I know how I have felt about it, But
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: how have you felt when it comes to aging in
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: the public eye. Do you ever feel like pressure? Because
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: then I can really you were captured on film and
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: you know, you were in Playboy and you are frozen
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: in people's memories in a certain way. Do you do
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: you feel that pressure? Does that weigh on you or
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: how do you get around that?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I part of me has a sense of humor about
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: it because I was being told I was too old
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: from the day I set foot in la or not
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: too old, but like you're gonna be too old because
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: I'd be like waitressing, and you know, there'd be like
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: two older men at a table trying to act like
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: they're in the industry when they're really not, which is
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: such a common thing in La. Oh, they're like asking
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: me what I'm trying to do, and how old are you? Oh,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: I'm nineteen. Well you're better hurry up and make you're it.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: You're almost over the hill. So it's like I almost
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: have a sense of humor about it now because like
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: I'm forty six, and it's like if somebody wants to
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: tell me I'm old today. Cool because they were telling
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: me that when I was nineteen. Like, it's just it
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: means nothing to me now. Although but I do, you know,
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I do care about how I look, and I do
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Looking a certain way is fun for me. It's a hobby,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: I like, you know, especially for making content online doing
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: my TV shows, I want to look a certain way,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: like I'm in true crime now, and true crime lighting
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: is brutal. Going into season two of my true crime shows,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I was like, you guys, I'm gonna need a little
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: bit more lighting, Like I can't do the true crime
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: lighting anymore. So they were kind and they gave me
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: an extra light. But yeah, I mean, I get some
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: dysmorphia and stuff. I think the time I felt worst
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: about it was after I'd had my son, which is
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: my second kid. It was twenty I had him in
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, and this was around the time when social
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: media had been around for a minute, but everybody was
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: really getting online and really doing the front facing camera
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: stuff and selfies were the thing. And like, if I
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: scroll back on my camera roll to twenty sixteen, I
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: just see reams of me trying to take a picture
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: of my own face for whatever reason, and never liking
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: it because you know, when you're pregnant, you know, you
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: gain weight and things swell up, and your face even
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: kind of changes and things around a little bit. And
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I just remember that feeling comes back when I see
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: those pictures, and the feeling of not recognizing who I
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: was anymore and feeling just so out of touch and
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: out of out of it. And you know, the postpartum
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: and the pregnancy hormones don't help with that, and it
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: was just such a sad, depressing feeling like I felt
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: like I wasn't myself anymore. And you know, I'm over
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: that now and I'm back and I've learned a contour
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: and I'm happy with the face again. But yeah, it's
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: a real thing. It happens, and it's just interesting how
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: it can really sometimes affect your sense of who you are,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: even though like we all know deep down that we're
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: not you know, who ares people is not what we
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: look like. But when I was trying to learn a
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: flattering selfie angle, it was rough.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: I have so many of those bursts on my phone too,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: where you're like, I don't like it, Like I've got it, yeah,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: and then if someone by chance picks up your phone
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: and looks at your camera, world, it's so embarrassing.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Totally, and it's like the iPhone front facing camera is
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: no one's friend, and it's sad and it doesn't match
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: what we see in the mirror, and I hate it.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: That's so true. You talked before, and you've been really
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: open about your diagnosis with autism. Do you think that
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: having that diagnosis or being having that awareness has impacted
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: your romantic relationships at all.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I just broke it off with the guy I
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: was with when I found out I was on the spectrum,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: and he was always, you know, great with talking to
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: me about it and being very understanding and things like that.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: So he was a great person to be with for that.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: I think it will make you know the next person
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I'm with, I think it'll make it easier because I
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: think I'm better at communicating, making eye contact, you know,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: understanding how I come across when I was so clueless
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: about it before. Yeah, hopefully that will be a positive.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I think that that awareness that it gives you sort
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: of a relief and then opening to be more gracious
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: with yourself, you know, and allow yourself like to be
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: a little bit more kinder to yourself. Yeah, you're dealing
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: with something of that other people don't have to deal with.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think when other people know that about
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: me too, maybe they won't take it so personally when
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: they catch me like zoning out or some some weird
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: thing that I do. Where before it was like, oh
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: my god, this bitch hates me and she's being so judgy.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Why is she?
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I think that you are such a survivor. Thanks, And
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: I wonder what made you go into the true crime area.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Growing up, I always loved things like unsolved mysteries. I
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: always loved stuff that was a little bit creepy and
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: a little bit mysterious, even my fascination with like old Hollywood,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: like I grew up obsessed with Marilyn Monroe, Like I
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: always loved the stories that kind of had a hint
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: of tragedy to them. For some reason, I was always
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: really drawn to those, and I never thought about getting
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: into true crime on my own, like I was always
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: a consumer of it, different podcasts I love listening to
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: and things like that. But my agent came to me
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: with the idea for Playboy Murders that the production company
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: had come to him with He's like, you know, if
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: you want to do this, the network wants to greenlight it.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: And at first I was like no, because I didn't
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: want to do another Playboy branded thing. I was like,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I can't. I've reached my limit no more. But then
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: he's like, let me just send you the deck and
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: you know, let me know what you think. So he
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: sent me the deck and it was a lot of
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: cases I'd never heard of. They were all so different,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: they were all so interesting, and I was like, no, wait,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: this is a show I would actually watch. So that's
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: when I knew I wanted to be involved. And it's
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: just been such a rewarding, interesting process to be a
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: part of and I love doing it and I hope
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: we can do them more.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm really intrigued by it too. I
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: watched a little bit of it and I didn't know
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: about these cases, And so are all the cases on
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: the show about people in that world the play mates
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: play pla Boy world.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in those cases, there's always somebody in each case,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: whether it's the victim or the perpetrator, or somebody who
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: witnessed something in a major way. Was a part of
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: the Playboy world, whether they worked for the magazine or
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: were a bunny at one of the clubs, or we're
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: a playmate. So you know, a lot of my purpose
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: in the show as a talking hat is to give
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of background on what that world is like
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: and what the jobs were like and the history of
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: it and things like that. And each story is so
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: incredibly different. And we're on our third season now. I
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: can't even believe we've found this many cases. But when
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: you think about, you know, how long Playboy has been
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: in business, and how many Playboy clubs there were across
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: the country, and how many people worked for the company,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: I guess it makes sense. So yeah, season three, you're.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Going into season three mm hmm, that's so great. I'm
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: really happy for you. I'm glad you said yes to
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: it because it sounds like it's not it's not putting
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: you back where you don't want to be. It's putting
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: you into a place now where you're serving a different role.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I love telling the stories. I love and with
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: my other true crime show, Lethally Blonde, a lot of
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: the stories, not all of them, but a lot of
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: the stories focus on people who are involved in sex work.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: So I like to tell a broader story about the
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: person rather than oh they were a dancer, or oh
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: you know they were you know, working, you know, just
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: doing escorting or whatever. People tend to get brushed off
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: that way. So I like to look into who was
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: this person and what else? Like if I were that person,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: what would I want people to know about me? What
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: else about? Paint a broader picture of what was going
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: on in their lives? Except so many people get written off,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: and you know, so many people are targeted. Perpetrators will
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: often look for sex workers because they think those are
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: the people who are on the fringes of society, and
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: those are the people that won't be looked for, so
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: they think they'll have more of a chance of getting
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: away with it.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: That's so sad. It's so sick. Do you feel like
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: exposing to yourself to all of that impacts you in
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: a negative way at all?
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think I focus so much
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: on trying to get to know as best I can.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Obviously from the distance I'm at who I think that
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: person was and what else is going on in their life.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: It's sad, of course, but I feel good trying to
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: tell their story in a dignified way. And one thing
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: that's really special to me about season three of the
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Playboy Murders and season two of Lethally Blonde, which will
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: come out after this, is there are so many family
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: members of the victims who wanted to come forward and
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: share their stories. We didn't have that in the beginning,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: you know, we would always reach out to the families
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: every single case. But I think because we have seasons,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: you know, living on Max now that people can go
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: watch and see what kind of a show this is
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: and how we tell the stories, people want to be there.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: And it's horrible that the stories have to be told
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: in the first place. But if you have to tell
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: the story, I think the best person or the best
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: people to get the last word are the loved ones
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: of the who are lost.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't think a lot of people
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: know about the dark history of Playboy. Did you know
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: about it when you entered into that world, when you
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: lived there?
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit. I mean I learned about it
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: as I was there. Hef was a really big scrap booker.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: He had two thousand volumes of scrap book on his life,
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: and he would save anything that was written about him
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: whether it was positive or negative. So over the years
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I would come across things like maybe a book that
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: was written about him in the seventies that had a
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: lot of negative things in there that I almost didn't
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: want to believe, just because this was the person that
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: I loved and cared about. So I would, you know,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: make excuses in my head like, oh, well, this can't
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: be true, or you.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah, but it was. Yeah, that's wild. What a
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: life you've lived, fascinating, interesting, and.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: You're not you're altomster.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, who. I'm sure who expected it. But to
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: see you succeeding and pulling away from it and surviving
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: that trauma and thriving is really inspirational.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: And to see you as an example to other women
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: to be able to stand up for yourself and risk
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: losing it all in order to survive in order to
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: take better care of yourself is really really inspiring.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, you have to follow your gut when
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: you know it's time to go, it's time to go,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: for sure. There were no guarantees. You know, we'd been
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: on a hit TV show for a while, but you know,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: we'd been in this playboy bubble where nobody could really
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: reach us as far as other opportunities, like, I didn't
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: think I would have anything waiting for me. On the
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: other side, I had like a tiny bit of money
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: I saved up, and all I knew was I couldn't
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: do this anymore.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Where did you go when you moved out?
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I moved down the hall at first because I
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: had to fish doing some scenes for season five, so
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I had a little bit of time to kind of
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: get myself together. And I immediately started dating a guy
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: who was real bad news, and that did pretty quickly.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: But I had put money down on an investment property
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: that I had wanted to rent out, and I had
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: crashed there for a while and then almost I would
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: say like four months after I moved out, fully, I
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: broke up with that bad relationship. And I had been
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: wanting to do Dancing with the Stars so bad, and
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: I kept like auditioning and trying out and they kept saying, no,
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it's going to work like
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: you're you're dating this eighty year old man. I don't
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: think Middle America is going to accept you. But they
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: finally took me on because one of the contestants got
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: injured right before the season started, and they needed somebody
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: last minute. So they're like, who wants to do this
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: so bad that they're going to step in last minute
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: without all the rehearsal everybody else has had. Oh my god,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: it's me, It's me, It's me. Yeah, And I'd so
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: much fun and it was such an amazing couple of months.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: And during that time, I also like one of my
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: goals was I was a really big fan of Deeda
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Anties and The Crazy Horse and Paris and things like that,
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: and I really wanted to do something in burlesque just
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: for fun. Like my original idea was I was going
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: to do it as like a plotline for Girls next Door,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: like kind of a one and done just for fun.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: But then I kind of got this in my idea
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: after talking to a few people, No, I'd really like
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: to do something in Vegas at one of the places
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: on the Strip. And they happened to have a new
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: show that was opening that was a thirty million dollar budget,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: you know, from Broadway directors, this burlesque show coming in
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: and they were looking for somebody for that, and I
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: was auditioning for it while I was doing dancing with
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: the stars, and I ended up getting that, and it
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: was just like everything kind of fell into place, like
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: everything I wanted. It was like the ultimate, you know,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: domino effect of manifestation. But I could never predicted that.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Like when I decided to leave the mansion, I was like,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm going to do, Like I
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: can't afford an assistant anymore, Like all I have to
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: you know, I have time to just do my own errands,
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: like I really didn't know, Like I have this list
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: of things I wanted to do, but they all seemed
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: like such long shots, but they really fell into place.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. When one door closes and you let
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: that other door open, it's logical things happen.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so scary. It's like the whole jump and
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: the net will appear thing. And I'm still at forty
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: six years old. I'm not used to it. But I
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: know it's a thing, and I know it's true, and
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I know it's what I have to keep doing.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I keep pushing for that. That's so amazing. Well,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: before I let you go, Hollie Madison, what was your
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: last I choose me moment?
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: This is just so simple and silly but I just
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: have to choose to enjoy life because I'm really achievement oriented,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: and I tend to throughout my life go through different
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: phases of like having anxiety of not having achieved enough,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: or I'm not on track or I haven't done this yet.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: And every day like I'm looking at it right now
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: because I'm sitting in front of my window, like I
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: love my backyard. It's so pretty, and every day almost
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: I take a picture of it and I post up
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: my Instagram story and I'm like, it's a perfect day.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: And I just remind myself to like choose to love
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: life every day because you could have the most amazing life,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: which I feel like I do, and still fall into
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: this weird where you feel like you don't have enough,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: you're not achieving enough, and no, no, you just have
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: to choose to love life. So that's mine. I choose
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: me moment that is a perfect one.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming and being with us today.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I have loved talking to you and getting to know
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: you a little bit more.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm such a huge fan. It was such
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: a privilege to talk to you and this was so nice.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: I'll be rooting for you, thank you, where you go,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: thanky so much, have a good one.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Bye bye.