Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 5 Track 4 - The Power of Patience: Growing personally. Growing professionally. w/Rodney Northern

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Album 5 Track 4 - The Power of Patience: Growing personally. Growing professionally. w/Rodney Northern · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: What's happening? Brand Nerds, what's happening? Back at you with another episode of Brands, Beats, and Bytes, the podcast we know you, marketing and brand nerds you love. We thank you all for who've subscribed, and those of you who have not, please do so. And thank you for the, uh, for the love. All right, LT, this is a highly special occasion. We talk to all manner of people on this podcast, but every now and again we talk to what I describe is family. This next guest is family. I've known this next guest for a couple of decades, y'all. A couple of decades. Two things make him unique and then Larry will run down the pedigree. The first one, as you guys uh, know and Brand Nerds, every few years there is a new buzzword that takes over the marketing community and everyone starts talking about it. So, couple of words that phrases you guys remember branded content, right? So about branded content, then performance marketing, and then oh, everybody's, we gotta have performance marketing. Another word that was bandied about a couple years ago was storytelling. Storytelling. Our brands must have storytelling. Well before, a great story is told externally, it must first be told well, internally, and our next guest is one of the best storytellers I've ever heard, and you're gonna hear some of that today. The second thing is this. He and I, uh, crossed paths at the Coca-Cola company. And then brand management and marketing, back when, uh, this brother and I were starting, there weren't many brothers around. Not many brothers. Uh, he can attest to this. I'm gonna ask some questions a little later. So to have been at the Coca-Cola company at that time, and for you Brand Nerds who right now are thinking about Amazon and Tesla and Google and Apple, what those companies are now with regard to marketing the, uh, and, and brand value, et cetera. That's what the Coca-Cola company was, uh, at this time. So you didn't have a whole lot of brothers walking around the joint, and I was elated to see this brother pop up on the scene and we immediately hit it off. He's real, he's real, he's brilliant and he's real. LT, can you break down for the Brand Nerds precisely who we have in the building with us today? LT: Oh man. I love to DC. No pressure here at all. DC We have Rodney Northern in the house today. Welcome, Rodney. Rodney Northern: Thank you. Good to be here. And, and, and Darryl. Thank you. Thank you. This is gonna be a fun session without no doubt. DC: No doubt, brother. No doubt. LT: Oh, totally. And okay. Brand Nerds, straight up. As DC already told you, we have another great guest who is a fellow Coca-Cola alum. Those of us sometimes use the shorthand of the stock symbol. KO is what we our ourselves. Right, right guys? Yes. Uh, so the truth is, we could have great podcasts with just people who were KO alums. And at the same time, we believe delivering a wide range of people was vital. But as a consequence, we, we only bring on Coke Alumns sporadically, and we bring you the cream of the crop, which means mm-hmm. There's more in the future. But Rodney is the cream of the crop. So with that out of the way, let's share Rodney's fantastic background. So born in Kansas and raised in SoCal. Rodney earns his bachelor of science degree in economics from the University of California at Riverside, and then goes on to earn his MBA with dual emphasis in corporate finance and marketing at USC's Marshall School of Business at USC. And that's by the way, University of Southern California. Not to mix it up with the other U S C, he was the recipient of the prestigious Consortium for Graduate Study and Management Fellowship, and later he is also inducted into the professional fraternity of Sigma Pi Phi. So Rodney's career is simply stellar. He starts at Clorox headquarters out here, near, uh, where I am in, Oakland, working on brands such as Hidden Valley Salad Dressing in Kingsford Charcoal. And I remember Rodney telling me about Kingsford Charcoal when he joined Coke. So, uh, it is really cool stuff. But for the next two decades, Rodney climbs the corporate ladder with ever increasing roles in brand marketing, business product innovation, and human-centered design at leading global CPG companies such as SC Johnson, Tyson Foods, Miller Brewing Company, Sarah Leon International, and of course the Coca-Cola company. And at agencies such as Carol Williams Advertising and Sanders Wino working on stellar accounts such as AT&T, KFC, and PNG, just to name a few. During his corporate tenure, he leads billion dollar businesses. Yes, branders with a B, and manages multi-million dollar budgets for many well-known consumer brands. And at one point, he was, uh, considered one of the top 100 global marketers by Ad Age. In 2020, Rodney joins the faculty at the University of Texas McComb School of Business. Where he lectures and coaches in their curriculum of entrepreneurship, innovation, and strategic management. In 2021, post George Floyd's tragic murder, Rodney becomes CEO/Founder of Multimerica Media Ventures and national, regional and local media buying media investment in media trading company, partnering with clients and their media planning agencies to help improve their media reach and accuracy across all platforms, while also helping them to increase their return on their media investment. TX Hub registered and MSDC certified as a black-owned media buying, media investing and media trading company. Rodney has held leadership board positions in several local area nonprofits in Austin, Texas, and is a huge proponent of quality early education, driving health behavioral change and helping reduce the recidivism rate for Texas inmates. This is gonna be a really good one. Strap it up, Ron. Brand Nerds. Welcome to Brands, Beats and Bytes, Rodney Northern. Rodney Northern: Thank you, Larry. Thank you. Those, those are the, I, I'm listening to that and I was like, wow, I appreciate that. This is gonna, this is gonna be fun. LT: Yes. It's, you know, DC: These are your flowers, brother Rodney. These are your flowers. All of them earned. All of them earned. Rodney Northern: Yep. Thank you. Thank you. It's, it's, it's, it's been a, it's been, it's been a, an interesting journey so far and I don't think I could have scripted it when I was coming outta school. Mm-hmm. I think when I, when I, when I first got to USC, I thought I was gonna be a banker and that was gonna be my life. But, uh, oh, LT: Rodney, I never knew that. Rodney Northern: Yeah. Neither it, it has turned out, it has turned out a different way. Well, you know, when I was, when I was in grad school, the, uh, financial market crash. And so all of the finance guys put marketing on the back of their degrees and, and you know, I ended up down that path. So it was, it was interesting. LT: You know, Rodney, I remember you telling me you had a FI dual and I just thought you were thinking ahead. Like having both was really cool, but I didn't know that, that you had actually planned a, a different career path. Rodney Northern: That's awesome. Yeah, it was, it was, it was a totally different career path, but I'll tell you in, in the world of marketing, you know, in the world that we grew up, you know, having that understanding of the numbers is, is absolutely critical in terms of, you know, absolutely. Business. LT: Yeah. Rodney, I don't know if you know this, I was an accounting degree undergrad and I couldn't agree with you more. It was hugely helpful. Rodney Northern: Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I think that, that, you know, I, I talked to students today and, and if you don't understand the numbers, you really don't understand the business. Like DC: Well said. Yeah. Will said. All right, Rodney, this next section we call Get Comfy. I want to take this to your current role and then walk back and then I want you to walk back forward. So, um, CEO and founder of Multimerica Media Ventures. Mm-hmm. And, um, this came out of, uh, in part the murder of Brother George Floyd, back, uh, uh, back in 2021. So now, um, let's go back. Let's go back. So, uh, Larry, both Rodney and I at the Coca-Cola company did a stint, in what was, uh, ostensibly known as the multicultural marketing area. So for, for most black executives at that time, if you were in one of these major companies and you happen to be in brand management, as Rodney and I have been at different places, you're eventually going to do a stint, if you will, in multicultural marketing. It, it, it's a bit, it's a bit like if you are in one of the military, um, uh, branches, you, you're gonna get basic training, if you will. So that was what we thought of at, uh, at the Coca-Cola Company. For some of us, not all of us, but for some of us. So Rodney and I were part of the group where we did a stint there. So this is, this is where we met. So Rodney, I'd like for you to talk a bit about what you experienced as what multicultural marketing was then. And then move it forward to 2023 and what you think it is now and what were some of the, or are some of the similarities and then what are, or were some of the differences? Rodney Northern: Ooh, that's a, Ooh, you're gonna start, I thought this was about getting, you, you guys are gonna walk me into this thing. It was gonna be a slow, easy ride. Um, DC: We hop and right in brother, we Hoff and right in. Rodney Northern: Okay. Okay, okay. Okay. So here, here's the thing, D, and, and I think you and I talked about this, like, when I first came to Coke, I was in the Olympic marketing group and then, you know, joined the, the USA Marketing Group and it was a pleasure to join with you guys and Steve and everybody. DC: Yeah. Steve Horn, shout Steve Horn. Rodney Northern: Yeah. And, and, and the opportunity was really, and, and, you know, D, you had been there before, so you saw sort of the previous regime, right? DC: I did, yeah. Rodney Northern: And, and, and the challenge was how do you, the challenge that, that I accepted in talking with folks was about how do you, how do you infuse more strategy? DC: Yep. Rodney Northern: How do you infuse growth? How do you really infuse knowledge mm-hmm. to try and propel a population to engage more with your products, right? Mm-hmm. . And, and, and so from that standpoint, I saw it as a real interesting opportunity because as you know, back in that day, um, that multi co group was responsible for probably about 30, 35% of Coca-Cola's volume in the United States. DC: Yeah. Yep. Rodney Northern: Um, but the, the challenge was always, while they were responsible or, or that's what these ethnic groups made up in terms of volume, you only had three to 5% of the budget. That's right. And, and that's right. And, and that part I never understood, but I, but I thought what we did was we tried to sort of bring in the business, understanding the cultural understandings, and then say mm-hmm. How do you use that to help build your business? And, and, and watching what, what you and Steve had done with Sprite was absolutely the foundation to say, how do we do that inside of, you know, Coca-Cola and across the other brands, you know, but, but how do we use that as a, as a, um, as a offensive measure as opposed to a defensive measure? I think, I think a lot of times when you think about how the group was structured before I got there, it was more of a defensive thing. LT: Yep. DC: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: Um, and, and, and so, you know, so I, I, I thought the opportunity, you know, we'd just come off of, off of the, uh, off of the Olympics, you know, and it was great to see, you know, brand was, or Coke was, was really doing something different with the Olympic sponsorship, you know, where they did sort of the, they created the brand and then they tried to figure out, okay, how do I move the business forward? I thought the same opportunity existed in multicultural. So that was the discipline that we were trying to put into play, right? DC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. LT: So I have to, I have to chime in here because mm-hmm. , this is a really important conversation. So when our team on Powerade was doing our thing, You know, there's an obvious intersection with multicultural marketing. Yeah. And for the life of me having managed those budgets and managing those brand, that brand, I didn't get it then. And even in retrospect, you know, it still is opaque to me. Right. Like how that all w did work and was supposed to work. What I will share with, and D I think I've said this once before in a show, but I'm gonna say it again and I'm not gonna use names. DC and I were at a global marketing meeting and a very, one of the most senior people at Coca-Cola USA saw us together and we were having drinks and he didn't realize, cuz it was like two different worlds, he didn't realize that we were friends. And you could see the registration on his face. Oh shit. Those two are friends, like they're boys and he looks at us like, like, takes both look at us, like individually, collectively, like, oh. And then he looks at me and he goes, he goes, Larry, don't let DC sell you any of that rap shit. Okay. Right. Am I lying, D? DC: You, you, you are. If you're lying, you're flying and you are not flying. Yes. So you, you are dead ass. Yes. LT: He looks at us, he chuckles, we look of course, do the uncomfortable laugh, and he walks away, like runs away and DC and I look at each other like, are you blanket kid? Like, what was that? ? Yeah. Mm-hmm. . So I, I tell that story because that says a lot, doesn't it? Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: It, it, it does. And, and, and what it, what it lays out is, and, and, and you get it so, You know, it was a defensive position for the company. It wasn't an offensive position for the company. Mm-hmm. . But, but remember where I come from. So I come from, I come from the Clorox Company, which was part of Proctor and Gamble at one point in time, and had sort of the same training and development and how you run a business. I, you know, I, I come from Miller Brewing Company where you own the business and, and you're, whatcha we call it. And, and one of the things that I always found is that while it was real easy for me to always make my numbers across those businesses is because I included input from the total marketplace. DC: Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: and, and, and, and, and what I learned early on was that when you don't include input from the total marketplace, generally you don't hit your numbers. DC: Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: And so, you know, it was real easy for me to see that, hey, These marketplaces have a point of view. They are, they are. They have a different culture, but that culture can be used to help fuel everything. Um, Darryl, I, I don't know if you remember, you remember, you know, before, you know, I think it was right around the time of the Olympics we were looking at, uh, so before Grant Hill? Mm-hmm. , yeah. Just before Grant Hill. Yeah. You remember when we were looking at Penny Hardaway and the themes and we were like, hey, this is, this would be the thing to set off a basketball. DC: I remember. Yes, I remember that. I do. I hadn't thought about it in years, Rodney, but yes. Rodney Northern: You remember how much pushback we got on that and how, DC: I don't remember the pushback, but I can imagine. LT: So tell the story. Tell us, Rodney. Keep, bring us behind the ropes here. Rodney Northern: We signed the deal. Like we signed the deal with, with, with Penny Hardaway. You know, I think he was, um, he was a rookie or second year in the NBA, um, you know, and, and, um, you know, I, I think, uh, it was, was it Lauren Hill? It was Lauren Hill. I think that that's where we were. We were, and they were just about, they were just about to drop, you know, that, that first album or something. And then we were like, oh, this is gonna be the best thing in life and this is gonna just propel and, and, and that put basketball and, and, and, and hip hop together and mm-hmm. , you know, we, we signed the deal. I'm pretty sure we paid the money and it got squashed as Bernie Taylor cross. Oh, I didn't know this. Yeah. What? Hmm. And, and, and, and so again, but, but that was, that, that was the lack of understanding of how culture can drive everything. You know, like, like, you know, one of the things, and, and, and you, you look at what, what, what, what, uh, DC and, and, and, and that group and Horn did with Sprite, is he, you know, he used the culture to sell to everybody. LT: Yep. Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: Mm-hmm. and, and, and that was the fuel. And so I don't think back then, so we're talking what, mid nineties, I don't think most leaders in marketing understood how culture can be a, a tool to help you grow business if you fast forward to today mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . I am still hopeful, but I think a, a lot of people are saying that they're trying to do it. Most of them aren't having the success as well as they should. Hmm. I, I would. DC: And why not? Why not Rodney? Rodney Northern: Because I, I, I think that they, they, they, they still don't believe that people, I'm gonna say that, I'm trying to put this in a nice way. They don't believe that people who speak English mm-hmm. are different. So, ah, just cause, just because we all speak the same language doesn't mean we come from the same place. LT: Yep. Rodney Northern: And it doesn't mean that our experiences are the same and those experiences are the same things that motivate us to do and, and the behavior in which we do. And so, unless you get to that level of understanding, and this is the, this is the thing that I love about, you know, sort of behavioral design and, and, and, and behavioral science, is that, you know, it's not just about what people say, but it's actually going and observing the behavior and, and, and, and listening with your eyes as well as your ears, right? Because once you truly have that understanding of behavior, then you understand what the motivations for change are and what are the barriers for change, and then you can overcome 'em. Um, I don't think, I don't think people are getting as deep, and I think that's still where you have interesting situations. I was listening to, to the last, uh, last podcast with, I think you guys had it with Greg or somebody, and, and, and you guys were, maybe this was the, the, the, the bite size. And you guys mentioned the, you know, Walmart trying to sell, um, You know, what was it, June 1st? Oh yeah. Juneteenth, Juneteenth Juneteenth, uh, ice cream. Yeah, yeah. Snacks for that and, and how they just told this, right. That thing. Yeah. But, you know, a, a lot of it, a lot of it is, is, is that people remember when Sergio used to make us walk around the, the, the complex with we are not the target. Yeah. Oh yeah. DC: Yes, I recall. I recall. Rodney Northern: Most, most people forget that, you know, and, and, and, and you know, and, and, and we're not. And if we're not, if we're not willing to go out and, and act like we don't know anything and learn, then you never, you never, you never progress forward in the marketplace. And I think too many folks are being left out of the analysis in which we do to sort of build our business cases in order to grow things. LT: Um, Rodney's dropping jewels D just like we thought he is. DC: He is. The, the storytelling has already commenced. Okay. Commenced Rodney, before we, uh, go to, uh, to LT, mm-hmm, on our sponsoree, your point about, uh, uh, we don't believe that people who speak English are different. Uh, Tom Burrell fame Tom Burrell, founder of the, uh, agency, um, uh, Burrell Communications Group. Mm-hmm. , um, he had a saying, and that was, Black people are not brown skinned white people. Yeah. That, that, that was that a classic line. And the same can be said also there, that we're not brown skinned, uh, uh, like Latino people are not brown skinned, white people are not Notre Asian. Yeah. So that exactly, that is a, that's a classic, that's a classic line. That's the the first thing. The second thing is, uh, is this, and then I'm gonna pass it over to Larry, is that when you are a minority executive in this country, America, because you are a minority, you cannot escape, nor would we want to necessarily, understanding how the majority operates. We couldn't get a job, we wouldn't be able to get homes, we couldn't go to school. We must understand how the majority operates in this country because that's the majority. So that makes sense. Mm-hmm. . All right. Now, unfortunately, uh, the reason why there is a, uh, it had been a multicultural group, uh, is because it's a minority. There is not the caucasian marketing group, that group, there's no name like that. It's just called the brand team. And, and quite frankly, Rodney, your point is when you are running a brand, you are running the brand against a set of numbers, against an addressable target. It doesn't matter the hue of the target, it matters can you get this, this addressable market to buy your brand and buy your product, therefore, to not understand, to your point, Rodney, the total market, put you at a gross disadvantage from someone like you, Rodney, as well as you Larry, and then Jeff, our producer and me who understands the total with the capital T. Having said that Larry, our, our sponsor read, unless you have something else, Larry. LT: Yeah, I just want to add a quick comment and then we'll go to the sponsor read. Uh, you know, I think you gentlemen are both aware that, uh, I think one of the reasons why we had some success on Powerade at the beginning was we were really focused and we did a really good job, our brand team did on understanding who our brand lover was and that was the captain of the football, basketball, and baseball team in high school. And we did, we had a focus group. It's one of those, I'll never forget, it was in Miami and we happened to get, as one of the focus groups, an All-State basketball, and this guy was fantastic. He just was dropping jewels. And so we took the video cuz as we all Brand Nerds is, some of you may or may not know when you do focus groups, they are videotaped. We literally took the videotape of some of the real cogent things he said and said mm-hmm. , if you are wondering who we have to appeal to, to Powerade, this is the guy. Mm-hmm. Him. If we, everything we need to do has to be focused on him. And he happened to be an African American Allstate basketball player who is from Miami. Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: You know who that, who that target is. The target is the target. Right. And it, and it, and it, and it emanates from there. And, but if you don't, if you don't get down to that, you don't know. LT: Yep. Rodney Northern: You know, you're just guessing. So anyway. Alright, I'm sorry. LT: Anyway, let's go to the sponsor read uh, Brand Nerds back to you about Specificity. So Brand Nerds, we know many of you are immersed in digital marketing or simply involved in it. Either way, if you want to optimize your digital marketing to maximize results, we have these solution for you. 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The bottom line is Brand Nerds In 2023, we believe no one else out there can deliver better digital marketing results than Specificity. We have introduced Specificity to many clients and everyone is super happy since each client has been more successful with their digital marketing efforts than they were before. For more information on specificity, please visit their website at specificityinc.com. Again, specificityinc.com, that's S P E C I F I C I T Y I N C .com. Their website is also on our show notes. If you wanna improve your digital marketing results, go check them out. DC: Thank you, Larry. Thank you. Rodney, we are on to the next segment. It's called Five Questions. Okay. I ask a question, Larry, ask when we back and forth until we reach the number five. I'm out of the box first. You've lived in multiple places, spent quite a bit of time in Cali. I want, want you to think about your, your "ute" when you, when you were "ute" mm-hmm. and, um, the first brand experience you had, Rodney, that captivated you, that had a lure that had, you want to be involved with it, whether that's listening to it, watching, spending time doing it. Any interest that you've had. Akin to a first love. You were just into this brand. What was that for you, Rodney? Rodney Northern: Wow. Y you know, and, and, and growing up in, in, in Southern California, you got exposed to a lot of stuff and you got exposed lot of stuff earlier, right? LT: Yep. Rodney Northern: But I tell you, my first brand love. You know, um, was, was interesting, you know, um, my first brand love something that I truly said, you know, this shoe works well for me was Nike basketball shoes, and Nike had a mesh high top. Mm-hmm. , you know, when everybody else had canvas and leather. The, I think their first, I, I wanna say their first, my first Nike basketball shoe was a mesh high top. Mm. And, and, and I love those shoes. And, and LT: You remember the color, Rodney? Rodney Northern: It was, it was white. It was, it was, it was, it was a white mesh. Like I had never seen that before. But they fit really well, you know, and, and it was new and it was different and, and you know, it just come off the heels of the waffle shoe and all that kind of stuff. Yep. But the, the, the, the mesh Nike basketball shoe mm-hmm. was, was, was really the, the one that sort of got me into the Nike franchise. Mm-hmm. . And, and, and it's interesting cuz I, I, I played a little ball in high school, you know, Darryl, you know, I played a little ball. We got some, you know, some history there. And Larry, I'm, I'm not sure you ever made it out to the court with us, but you know, I. But, but, but, but, you know, and, and, and went through a number of, you know, went through the, you know, tried the Pumas and, and tried the red and Reebok and leather and, and, and, you know mm-hmm. twisted and sprained all kinds of ankles. But it was the Nike shoe that always stood true for me. Um, and, and, and so through that and, and through the allure, I just became a Nike fan and lover. And, and, and I'm, I'm sad to this day because, you know, I think my feet continue to grow or one continues to grow larger than the other. And whatever's happening with Nike, whether they come from China or whether they, they're coming from Vietnam, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's wrecking my game, my shoe game a little bit. Hmm. But, but, but, but truly Nike was the first real brand love that I had, you know, without a doubt. LT: That's great stuff. Rodney Northern: Yeah. And it, and it, and it goes back to, and I don't know if you guys remember that, that mesh shoe that they had, but it was probably, I don't, it was probably ninth grade, so that was like, you know, '77, 78, something like that. LT: So around the same time, Rodney, my first Nikes and, and, and took me in completely, I had the high top blue suede ones, remember those? Rodney Northern: I remember those. They used to turn your socks blue. LT: Exactly, exactly right. Ah, if it, if it rained, yeah. Your socks were blue, man. Mm-hmm. , but, uh, or you sweat a lot. Yeah. Um, so I, I can't remember those. But that's, see, it's, it's so interesting and that's why we asked this question. You know those brands when we're in our formative years, you still remember those, right? And, and that's why look, Brand Nerds little lesson, when you hear 18th to 34 where you hear there's a lot of, uh, emphasis for youth marketing for the teens. This is why because look, they got Rodney young and they, they had him for many, many years. You think about how many, how much money you've spent on Nike's, Rodney, have you ever thought about that? Um, I know for me it's thousands and thousands of, of thousands of dollars. Rodney Northern: Yeah, exactly. And, and you know what's interesting, Larry? So, so I grew up in, in, uh, half the time in Altadena half the time in Redlands. In Altadena I got hip to Vans. LT: Oh yeah. DC: Oh yeah. Rodney Northern: Early, early as a kid. Yeah. Yeah. But still Nike, you know, and, and I remember, you know, part of the excitement was how fast could you run around the house and you always felt that you could run faster in Vans That's right. And you could, and anything else. Mm-hmm. . But, but, but Nike was the one that truly moved me to the top of, you know, this is love. LT: Uh, I'm gonna piggyback on you a little. Rodney, I have to share this quick story. So, uh, DC know Rodney, I don't know if you know this, but what, and it was during the Olympic stuff with Coke. Okay. And I went against the grain in a big way, uh, because Reebok was an official Olympic sponsor. And I knew that we wanted to do a Powerade athletic club through Nike. Had to do it. There's no way. Re and everybody was steering me. You, you know what those politics were, were like Rodney. Yeah. And I sort of pulled an end run. Because we had the relationship with Nike, because Deion Sanders was, if you remember, was our first spokesperson for Powerade. Mm-hmm. And he was represented by Nike in those days. Anyway, we ended up pulling the end run and, and we brought our deal, ended up bringing Coca-Cola and Nike much closer for many years to come because we made a significant deal with Nike. But one of the coolest things, I'm going to the personal, not the one of the coolest things, um, one of the, uh, main folks at Nike, he understood that, you know, basically this deal happened because I was such a bulldog about it and mm-hmm. one of my visits out there, he said, Hey, man, before you leave, I have this for you. And he handed me $500 gift certificate to go to the Nike store, to the employees. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. Now, ooh, for those of you who don't, they're So, if, if something costs a hundred dollars on retail at the Nike store, it's about 40. Okay. I went the ni That was one of the coolest things I ever got to do, was to go to that Nike store. And funny enough, uh, and they have these shopping carts and everything, and Lisa Leslie happened to be there at the same time as me. Wow. And we go shopping together, she was, you know, cuz they're brand people, uh, the, the, those endorse, those endorsees, they get a certain amount of swag with their deal. Mm-hmm. . So she was getting whatever she wanted. And I had this five, and it wa it was the cool, because I was so embedded in that Nike brand name, I, that was such a fun time for me. Rodney Northern: That Nike employee store is amazing, isn't it? LT: It's the bomb. DC: Yeah. Never been look looking for what opportunity to go. Never been Rodney Northern: Yeah, it is. Uh, I had a, a good friend of mine, um, he used to work for Nike and we went up to visit him up in Portland and he took us there. Mm-hmm. . And it was like, it was Christmas. You know, you could, and you could. And, and, and, and, you know, that was the normal markdown, but if you cock stuff on sale Oh. You know, they had, they had, they had like sweatshirts for $10. LT: Yeah. You know, it was crazy. Like their best ones too, but they were last year's model. Rodney Northern: Mm-hmm. . It was crazy. But yeah. Yeah. And, and even though I have this Adidas golf shirt on now on my feet, it was always about Nike. DC: There you go. Yeah. Ah, yeah. Yeah. It, it, it was and remains to be. That's right. All right, LT, you wanna hit the next question? LT: Yeah, I was just gonna say, I'm gonna, the next question. So Rodney, who's hat or having the most influence on your career? Rodney Northern: Wow. You know, I, I have been, I have been incredibly blessed to, to work with some of the, the, the best and brightest minds in the world. Right? I mean, you know, when you, when you think about, when you think about all the folks that we met at Coca-Cola, you know mm-hmm. when you think about, you know, Sergio, I met Sergio when he was a consultant at Miller and, and DC: Oh yeah. Rodney Northern: And, and, and he was, you know, and I'll say this, he was a better consultant than he was a CMO, but he did fantastic things, even as a CMO, right. Um, yeah. You know, work, working, working, working for Horn, uh, understanding, you know, Mike Steel and Chuck and, and all those people were Yeah. And, and your parents. But, but I would say from a professional standpoint, the, the person that's had the most and, and, uh, came on early in my, in my career. Um, and, and I would say Jim Hasler was my first boss. He taught me a lot about leadership. But Carol H. Williams, taught me a lot about growth. Mm-hmm. and about how you position for growth. And, and so, you know, it was, it was her teachings that, you know, and, and she mentored me when I was at Clorox, that was really helpful. And I think really spurred the whole innovation side and curiosity inside of me. And, and I take her teachings, you know, with me to this day. Um, you know, she, she was great. She would, she, she gave me the, the thing, and, and this is, you know, and I think when we're young in brand, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're doing all of our analysis. We're trying to get an understanding of where the consumer is and all that kind of stuff, right? And, and we're trying to build these business plans and she was like, yeah, it's good to understand the, where the consumer is. But it, it's like that old, it's like that old Michael Jordan saying, but you don't want to hit the consumer where they're at. You always want to hit the consumer about where they're going to be. Yeah. That's, that's good Rodney. And it was, and it was that little, that little thing that said, ah, okay, everything is about growth and, and everything is about movement and momentum. Mm-hmm. . And so if you can build that inside of businesses, then you'll win. Mm-hmm. . But if you're not building that growth and momentum inside of those businesses, you're not gonna win. And this is, this is coming from a woman who was a, uh, you know, executive, creative director. You know, when I met her, she was running her own, her own strategy shop, um, strategy consulting shop, and then later, you know, had a, a national advertising agency. Mm-hmm. . But it was that insight that, that really helped me. And, and we used to, and it's funny, you know, she was living in the Bay Area over in Alameda and so, you know, her daughter, you know, was little Carol was probably eight or nine at the time. Mm-hmm. And so she was a mom and, and we would have, you know, meetings at her kitchen table, you know, as little Carol was doing her homework, or we would have conversations as she was driving her to tennis lessons and all that kind of stuff. And that mentoring was, was so important for me early on because, you know, I'm a, I'm a kid that grew up, none of my, nobody, I didn't know anybody who worked in corporate America. Mm-hmm. you know, my, my mom was a college professor. My dad owned a barber in beauty shop in Kansas City for, you know, he just closed because of Covid. Wow. So, you know, I had no idea what this corporate thing was about. And, and so having that mentorship early was, was really, really, really important for me. So I, I would, I would, I would say Carol. Then there's, you know, a close following, Jim Hasler, Sergio Zeman, you know, um, Steve Horn, you know, he was great to say. LT: Rodney, you've got some really good mentors. Rodney Northern: And I do. I do. LT: You took a lot from all of them. Okay. Let I, let's move to the next question. D, you want to take the next one? DC: Let's do it. You've had lots of successes over the course of your illustrious career, Rodney Northern. None of which I want to hear about for this next question. We got it. This one is about, Your big whopping F up , one of the big ones, Rodney, a big F up. That was on you. Not not on anyone else, not on some senior management, not on someone on the team, not on some agency. You, you, you made the F up and what you learned from it. Rodney Northern: You got it. So I've been trying to think about, you know, which one should we, should we chat about, right. LT: Yeah. Okay. Alright. Ok. Rodney Northern: I'm gonna say I've learned a lot in my career. . Mm-hmm. and there were many opportunities. I think the, the biggest one. And, and, and in hindsight, I probably should have done something different. Mm-hmm. , but, but the biggest one was a lesson, was a lesson in patience. DC: Ah, okay. Okay. Rodney Northern: Um, and, and, and, and, and, and, and de I don't know how much we, we talked and, and Larry too, cuz you were there. I don't know how much we talked about when I left Coke, but it was, DC: I don't recall. I don't recall much. Rodney Northern: It was a real, yeah, it was a real interesting time for me. Like, and, and I will tell you, there were so many smart people at Coke. It was an incredible place. If you wanted to get a PhD in brand management, that's what you did, right? Because nobody runs a brand, nobody understands brand strategy and brand alignment like Coca-Cola. LT: Hey Rodney, I'm glad you just pointed at out. I just want to interject one thing. DC and I and Michael Moore, who's been on the show, remember Michael? Um mm-hmm. , we often talk about, you know, uh, the folks that we had there were truly the smartest brand people in the world. That's the way it was. Rodney Northern: Mm-hmm. It was, it was the smartest brand people, and you had room to maneuver to continue to innovate and kind of grow things, right? Yes. DC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: Um, now there was a culture that you had to fit there. LT: That's right. DC: Yeah. And, and no doubt. Rodney Northern: And, and, and, you know, not throwing any names, but, but sometimes the politics were just crazy, crazy, you know? And, and, and I thought Steve was one of the best ones to manage those politics because he was, when, when we were there, I remember Steve, you know, I think this is when email was becoming popular and you remember Steve wouldn't even look at his email. He is like, if it's important, somebody will come and talk to me. DC: That's exactly that, that is exactly what he used to say. That is exactly what he used to say. Yes. Rodney Northern: Because, because all the other stuff was just crazy that, that would, that would go, that would go around. So, so I'm coming off of my third assignment, um, which was on the, the global, uh, Burger King account team. And, and at that time, Burger King was doing really well. Um, I had a, a position, you know, Director of Business Development where, you know, we brought essentially, you know, the whole idea of brand optimization, uh, and you guys remember we were, we had Fanta, we were trying to get all kinds of, you know, taps and, and so we brought that whole idea about, about brand optimization to 'em, and that was helpful and, and, and, you know, it was a pretty cool assignment. Um, but I was, I was coming off of that and, um, you know, I was trying to figure out, well, what do I want to do next? DC: Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: Um, and, and what I knew is that I didn't want to stay on the USA side because as much as I love you guys, mm-hmm. , there were other guys there that I was like, you know, Yeah. Like, oh yeah, it, it, you know what you saying? Yeah. It, it, it, it, um, you know, and, and so Jack Stahl asked me, he is like, well, what do you wanna do next? And I said, Jack, I wanna go to Coca-Cola University. And you guys remember Coca-Cola University was a two year program. They're gonna stick you and in four different parts of the world, you're gonna stay there for, for, for six months. You're gonna learn a certain part of the business. But when you come back, you know, that basically puts you on that officer track LT: Yep. DC: Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: ...and then you're gonna go and do something else, right? DC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: And so I got accepted. Jack sponsored me to do it. DC: Wow. LT: And Brand Nerds, Jack Stahl was, was he running Coke USA then, Rodney? Rodney Northern: Jack Stahl. Yeah. He was. Yeah. Yep. And, uh, and, and, and so Jack was very gracious and I was very grateful. And I was, and I was, and I went home and I thought about it, and I did not have the maturity to do it. LT: Wow. DC: Oh, okay. Rodney Northern: And, and, and, and, and what I, what I think about was, and, and, and so you gotta remember, so I'm, what, 33 at the time, you know, I'm on, I'm on a global director path. I'm, I'm doing things, you know, it was... had, I had somebody in my ear that says, look, dude, slow down, be patient. Learn how to play golf. LT: Yeah. DC: Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: go find a life outside of work. Go do something else. DC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: You know, but I could not get out of my way to commit to doing it for the two years. Mm. LT: So let's, let's, I just wanna make sure we have this right. You had the opportunity, it was there for you, and then ultimately you couldn't pull the trigger. Rodney Northern: I couldn't pull the trigger because the only thing in my head was that I would come back and I would work for some of those same people that, that were causing me stress. Right. And I just couldn't, I just couldn't do that. Which was a very narrow, very narrow, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I could have been anywhere in the world. DC: Yep. Rodney Northern: And, and, and, you know, you had the choice. You, once you got out of that program, you had the choice to do just about anything. DC: Mm-hmm. Well, Rodney Northern: I couldn't, I couldn't, I could not. I, I could not, I did not have the maturity. To step back and see it. And so while I am very happy with my life, I'm very happy with what I did next. I think that was a big, a big F-Up because, and you Yeah. DC: No, no, no. Go ahead brother. Go. Go ahead. Go ahead. Rodney Northern: And, and because I think that what that would've propelled me to do would've been a very different path than, than the path that I've taken. Not that the path that I've taken has, has been bad. You got it. But it was, you got it. It it put it, it would've put it at a whole different level. Mm. LT: That, that program was amazing. DC: It was amazing. Mm-hmm. It, it was amazing. Rodney Northern: Yeah. DC: I don't know if they still have it, but it was amazing. So it was, so Rodney, you would say to the Brand Nerds as a result of the decision to not go to Coca-Cola University, you learned what? Rodney Northern: I learned that I needed to be patient, so, got it. There were a couple of things. So, so, so there, there were a couple of things that were important. So, you know, the first one was about patience and maturity. DC: Patience and maturity. Okay. Got it. Rodney Northern: And, and, and, and, you know, I, I can , I can honestly say, you know, at 33 maybe I wasn't the most mature person in line LT: That makes two of us, Rodney. Rodney Northern: You know, but, but, but we were all kind of, we were all kind of running hard. We were working hard, and we were playing hard and running hard and, and, and, and that's, that's what we knew. And, and you know, I, I think had I been more mature, what I would've done was, I wouldn't have worried about where I was coming back to. I should have been in love with what the experience was gonna be and what, you know, who knows what happens in two years. Right? LT: Yep. Rodney Northern: Because a lot of those people in two years have left the company. LT: Yep. Rodney Northern: Mm-hmm. Um, you know, and, and, and, you know, d I don't you, you probably remember this was about, this, was that, that time that, that, you know, maybe there was some issues with, with African American employees. DC: Yeah, I recall. Rodney Northern: And, and, and so I, I kind of got sucked into that. Ah, um, and, and, and what, what really should have happened had I had the right person around me. And, and, and, and then I think had I spoken to some other people inside the organization, like I, I don't even think Steve and I sat down and talked about it. Um, DC: I doubt, I doubt that you did because he would've said something to me about it. But go, go ahead. Rodney Northern: Exactly. But see, I think, I think Steve had gone over to Pepsi. Yeah. Remember he was making his transition out and um, but had I had somebody inside to say, you know, Rodney, you need to learn how to play golf. Mm-hmm. , like you need to find something else. Know that your life isn't just about work. Yeah. And, and, and, and, but, but, but, and, and I'm not, I don't want to use this as an excuse, but that's all I knew. LT: Yep. Rodney Northern: You know, was you just work hard and you play hard and, and, and that's it. And, and you're trying to achieve something. Mm-hmm. and, and you know, up until that point, It had been, it had worked very well. I mean, I, I've done things that, you know, people wouldn't get the opportunities to do. Who gets to work on, on, on a, you know, on an Olympic program with a major sponsor, you know. Who gets to, to, to build a global strategy, you know, first in the company that, that, you know, you make all your money before the games even begin, like you make all of your sponsorship money. You know, like, you just don't have opportunities like that. And, um, and, and so I, I think on a, on a large scale, you know, that was a big, that was a big, a big mistake. That, that, yeah. DC: That's a great one, Rodney. That's a And we appreciate the vulnerability and transparency, brother. LT: Yep. DC: We appreciate it. We gonna, we gonna hit the next question now, Larry. Rodney Northern: You got it? LT: Yep. So, so Rodney, uh, regarding technology and marketing, you've really seen the rise of tech through your career. So can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech or areas that they should be leery? Rodney Northern: You know, I, I think, I think, I think, you know, tech is here to stay. Um, I, I, I think that, I think early on there were, you know, and, and, and maybe I was one of those marketing purists, you know mm-hmm, that, that, that did not want to accept tech's role inside of, of the marketing equation. Mm-hmm. , um, yeah. But, but, but you know, it's here to stay and, and it has a role now. Marketing is still about the business of growth, right? LT: Hmm. Rodney Northern: And, and, and, and tech provides sort of one lens or one view. . And so you have to, you, you, you kind of have to keep that. I, I remember when everybody used to take a look and they used to look at, you know, the Google analytics on, on products and, and, and you could say, wow, well this stuff is really moving, you know, it's, it's moving off of this. But you never understood why. The whys of marketing are still, you know, the gold mine, right? DC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: and, and, and, and tech can't give you the whys, but they give you, uh, a part of the picture mm-hmm. . And, and, and so I think that as a, as, as, as a marketer who, who grew through that tech transition, um, you know, I, it has a role, um, but it doesn't replace understanding the whys and the only way that you can get to the whys. Is by actually going and observing and listening to behavior. Um, and then you add everything else into the mix that says, okay, how do I, how do I create this soup, right. Mm-hmm. That's gonna get me to where I wanna get to. Um, LT: Makes sense. Yeah. Makes sense. D, you want to go to the next question? I, I, I, I really like your emphasis there, Rodney. That was great. Rodney Northern: Thank you. I like that too. It doesn't replace the wise. DC: Brother, Rodney. Yes, sir. What are you most proud of? Rodney Northern: Okay, so, so I am, I am most proud that I have two kids. Hmm. And I, I've got a, a 30 year old son living in California, Channing, he just bought his first house. Oh, wow. Wow. You know, and, and so I'm, I'm, I'm a very proud dad of that. I'm also very proud. I've got a nine year old daughter. Ah, and, and, and, you know, I don't know about you guys, but having a nine year old daughter at this stage in life mm-hmm. and, and, and, and D, you know this by having girls. Girls are different than boys. LT: What's your daughter's name? Rodney. Rodney Northern: Her name is Samia. That's Samia. Samia, yeah. So that, that is Arabic for royalty. Okay. And of course she's a little princess, but, you know, but, but, but it, it's different. It teaches you to slow down, but it keeps you young. Mm-hmm. , you know, she, uh, she, she came to me the other day and, and, and, and asked me would I take, you know, her and one of her girlfriends to see Taylor Swift when she comes in, either Houston or Dallas. And in the back of my mind, I'm saying, why would I wanna go? You know, but, but then you're like, well, let's see, let, let, let's figure it out. But yes. You know, so you end up, you end up doing things that you were doing. But, but, but from a personal side, that standpoint, I think, I think from a professional side, what I am most proud of is that we were doing design thinking and behavioral design before it was a thing. So when we were at Miller Brew Company and or when I was at Miller Brew Company and I was asked to take over the new product space in the innovation space. You know, Miller had failed a lot with its new products. They couldn't get, they couldn't get anything out. And this is where I worked with Sergio and Scott and those guys. Oh, okay. And, and, and ah, we were able to, to redesign how Miller thought about, you know, new product development, what the, what the, the role that new products were supposed to play in the whole portfolio of brands and, and, and financial players and all that kind of stuff. And, and, and we created a whole new process that, that was essentially design thinking before there was design thinking. You know, we, we went out with was the name, say that again? LT: Or It was a name. Rodney Northern: Yeah. Before it was a name. Yeah. And in, in my thought process, it was just common sense. Yep. You know, um, but it was, but it was the difference between having success in the marketplace. And, and, and not having success. And I see so much, you know, they, they talk about the success rate of today's new products and ventures. It's still only at 35%. I'm like, it's just cause you guys aren't asking people what do they need? You're trying to tell them because you can make something that this is what they need, but nobody's really listening to the consumer base or even the customer base to really understand what those needs are and then how might you fill that gap. Um, but, but as I found throughout, you know, my years, it is, it is that understanding and it's that internalization of, of of, of being able to listen and see, you know, that's what drove the innovation at Miller. Um, we produced a brand ice house, that was only supposed to survive for five years. I think it's in its 25th or 26th, 27th year now. LT: Wow. Rodney Northern: Um, we were the forerunner to Mike's Hard Lemonade that came out of that, you know, all sorts of things. And, um, you know, so I think being able to, to build a business off of a piece of paper and make it profitable quickly, you know, is, is one of those things. And, and, um, so I think having that understanding and then being able to not only do it at Miller, but do it at Coke and do it, you know, taking that, that approach to Coke and SC Johnson and Tyson Foods, and even in a lot of the lecturing that I do today mm-hmm, um, is, is really, it's, it's gratifying to see, you know, and, and, and you know what is very simple for me, but understanding why it's so difficult for other folks or other organizations to do is kind of nice. Cause it says that consultants will always have, uh, a job to do. Right. LT: Well said. DC: And, and, and with that lt, let's hit the next section, let's hit the next section. LT: Okay. What is popping? What's popping, D? DC: What's poppin? LT: So Rodney, this is our chance to shout out shutdown or simply air something happening in and around marketing today that we thinks good fodder for discussion. And I think, Rodney, you got, you have something that you're chomping at the bit for. So can you lead us off? Rodney Northern: I, I, I, I do have something. And, and, and DC: Lay it on us. Lay it on us. Rodney Northern: Thank you for that, that opportunity. So, So, and D, you mentioned this in the opening, um, if you take a look at the, the new media marketplace, right? Mm-hmm. , you realize we spend as a, as a country, we spend 250 billion a year in media. DC: Is it 2, 2 50 just here in, uh, in America? Rodney Northern: Just here in America. DC: Okay. Wow. Rodney Northern: 250 billion. Wow. Billion. Wow. And, and, and, and less than a half a percent of that $250 billion goes through Black hands. Whether it's from a content development, whether it's from a, a platform, you know, an, you know, essence or, or even going through a black-owned media buying company. It is less than half a percent. DC: Less than half a percent of that 250 billion? Rodney Northern: Exactly. DC: Okay. Okay. Got it. Okay. Rodney Northern: So, so, so when, and, and, and, and, and, and Larry, keep me honest on this. So when, when all this stuff happened with George Floyd and all these companies said, you know, maybe we've been unfair. Yes. Maybe, maybe, maybe we need to invite more people into the media landscape and into the media business. And they started to make these predictions that said, Hey, you know something, I'm gonna spend 3% of my media, my total media, or I'm gonna spend 5% or 8% of my total media. To me, that should be, if you truly understand the media landscape and all that, it should be the opportunity for people who look like me to get into the media business. DC: Yeah. One would think. Rodney Northern: Yeah. So not, not the content creation mm-hmm. , but the actual media business where there is, is, is healthy, healthy margins and, and, and healthy dollars made. DC: Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: And, and so I think in terms of my, what's popping, you know, I, I, I, I think that we're headed in the right direction on that. I hope that we're headed in the right direction. Um, but the movement is slow. LT: So D you, DC: I've got some thoughts on... LT: Yeah, please. DC: Oh, yeah. I got, I got some thoughts on this. I got some thoughts on this. This is, this one is, this is juicy. Juicy Rodney. Juicy LT. LT: Great. Thanks for advancing this one, Rodney. DC: Mm-hmm. 250 billion. That's a quarter of a trillion dollars, quarter of a trillion dollars. So that's a lot of bread, a lot of skrilla. Those are a lot of bags. And um, is it a half a percent minority? Uh, goes to minority media or black owned? Rodney Northern: A half a percent. That goes to Black owned. DC: Black owned. Okay. That's good. But, but by the way, it's okay Rodney to say black. It's okay to say Latino. It's o It's okay to say Asian. We don't have to always aggregate things. There is power in aggregation, but it's okay to have the facts down there. So Black, Black media. Alright, I agree with you. Uh, the number needs to be, um, higher. I've got two reactions. The first one is some learning from the Civil Rights Movement. You had Martin Luther King as a leader. You also had Malcolm X. Rodney Northern: Yep. DC: I submit In order for there to be movement in where we were socially in America, we needed both. LT: Yep. DC: We needed a non-violent approach. One that had love at the forefront, bring everybody in. And then we also needed a more, this is the younger Malcolm. Now we needed a more aggressive approach, which was, hey, this is wrong. And we are not going to stand for it any longer. We needed both. I think if you'd only had, uh, Martin, uh, Rest In Power, Dr. King, we would not be where we are today socially and politically. And if we only had, uh, Malcolm, um, uh, Brother X, Rest In Power, we would not be where we are today as black folks, um, in um, uh, politically and social. So you needed both. Now, let's come to here. Uh, Rodney, are you familiar with a brother named Byron Allen? Rodney Northern: I, I, I, I am very familiar with Brother. With, with Brother Allen. Yes. DC: So Brand Nerds, look him up. Uh, Byron Allen is a, uh, one of the largest Black owned media, uh, property, uh, folks in the country. He's got a lot of stuff, the Weather channel among them. And what Brother Byron Allen has done is he's taken the Malcolm approach. He tried to do the, the Martin approach. Yeah. It didn't work for him. So he went Malcolm. So he's suing folks. Okay. He's suing these companies saying, you better let me in. You, you, you better let me in. And then you have others that are taking the, the Martin approach. So my point here is that we need both in order for Rodney, for people like you to, to get the, um, um, the, the ability to be in the media business with larger than just a half a percent of 250 billion. The second one is this, and then I'll get off of it. You shouldn't even be using, Brand Nerds, out there. Those of you all who are in positions of power, a population based number when it comes to Black media. So if you did that, you would go, well, at least 11, 12% of 250 billion should go, no, that's the wrong metric. I submit, you should be using the influence of a particular group. LT: Yep. DC: And that for Black folks, in terms of influence on what people consume, largely propagated through media is far above the numbers of, of of, of 11 12%. That's my takeaway there to Rodney's what's popping. Larry, what you got brother? LT: Man, this is such a good topic and goes so many different directions. Um, I think that what Rodney was saying, that the half a percent is, is just insulting. It is, you know, like to your point, if you look at 12% and it should be a lot higher in terms of influence. And, and we were coming off of, and, and Rodney, that's why one of the reasons why you saw the opportunity with your company right. To coming off the tragic murder of George Floyd. So that was and, Rodney Northern: and others. Yeah. LT: And others. Yeah. Great point and, and continues to be. Mm-hmm. , let's be like unfortunately. But, uh, as Jeff always talked to, talks to, that's the Black-nificent moment. Um, and to see where we are a couple years later, it's, it's awful. And so the question I have for us is what can we do to make the change and do it in a way that's really going to advance this because it's just a half a percent is nothing. Rodney Northern: It's nothing. And, and, and here's the thing, and I know we, there's a, there's a flow, but I, I wanna make two points if I can. LT: No, keep going. Rodney. We want this one. Rodney Northern: And, and, and, and, and so this is about business. How can, how can, how can anybody control that much business? Mm-hmm. , you know, and it's, and it's, and it's the holding cup. Because D, you remember, you know, Tom used to have his own media buying and media planning people when they were independent, you know, all of, all of the agencies had him. But yeah. But now that they've gabbled all of that up, yeah. It is all held by the, the holding companies and the holding companies are controlling, you know, 90, 95% of all the spend that goes through this country. DC: That's correct. Rodney Northern: And, and, and so and so, I'm not even, you know, I, I, you know, I, I'm just thinking of, hey, how you learn after, after trying to be in the business, how exclusionary this is mm-hmm. through the things called MSAs. And I, and I guess my point is that, look, I wasn't the one who told you that you want to spend 3% or 5% or 8%. You guys said it. All I'm trying to do is hold you to what you said that you wanted to do. LT: Right. Rodney Northern: And, and in order to do that, it has to be more about content creation. It has to be more than, than, than, than putting, you know, mixed racial couples into your advertising. You actually have to let people of color into the media business, and that's what we're, that's what we're trying to get into. So that was one point. And then D, you know, you talked about Malcolm and, and, uh, and, and, and Martin, you know, I, I, I, I went to something a couple of weeks ago to a beloved event, and there's a professor here, Professor Pernell Jacobs at University of Texas. And, and he talked about that tension that you talked about as that, you know, what Malcolm was trying to do was he was pushing for dignity of Black people. And what, and what Martin was trying to do was he was trying to push for citizenship. And you needed those, those two tensions. That's great. In order to move things through and, and to make things happen. And, and I agree with you, you know, we need the tension of people holding people accountable to what they said because what they said is out there, you know, we, we have a lot of friends who have said, yeah, we, we want to, we, we wanna see this inequity change. And we have a lot of friends out there who are now in, you know, over budgets and over master service agreements and all that kind of stuff. And, and in this new world of, of DEI, you know, the equity portion becomes very, very important. Because if you don't have the equity portion, you're not gonna have change. Anyway. That's where I will leave my, what's popping? Yeah. DC: Hey Larry, you're on, you're on mute, brother. . Uh, uh, so Larry, Larry's gonna take us to the show close, but I'm gonna take this quickly and say to this point about Martin was about citizenship and Malcolm was about dignity. I've not heard that before. Both are valuable. LT: Mm-hmm. DC: I'm going to say the same. Uh, same is true of where we are now, to your point, as it relates to this media, some of this is about economic participation, but the other, uh, uh, angle of this detention is economic equity. Economic equity. All right, Larry. LT: Well said, well said. That was great, Rodney. I'm glad you put that forth though, that we, we, we wanted to cover that in, in a comprehensive way. So we're just gonna drop our, what's popping and just go to the show close here. So, uh, D shall I go to my, uh, learnings first. DC: Please do it, brother. LT: Okay, so Rodney, man, you dropped so many jewels. I'm gonna keep it to, to five though, uh, to be crisp about it. Uh, so number one, if you don't understand the numbers, you don't understand the business. That's number one. Um, number two, Rodney is so good. He almost does this like breathing, uh, but it is huge Brand Nerds. If you don't obtain input from all parts DC: mm-hmm. LT: of your target, you won't hit your numbers. That's number two. Mm-hmm. number three. Just because we all speak English doesn't mean we come from the same place. Sounds like that we have this one, but we gotta keep that in mind. Number four, like Coca-Cola University with Rodney, your greatest opportunities are right there for you, and before you say no because of some things that might not be an important part of it in the big picture, make sure you're thinking of all sides of this. And lastly, Rodney said this a few times, almost like breathing, and I haven't heard somebody say this, crisply on all hundred plus of our shows, marketing is about growth. That's it. Plain and simple. I'm out. DC: Like that, brother. Like that. Rodney, you uh, you referenced the, uh, Greg Welch podcast. We just did that one. Uh, super dope. Super dope. So you may have noticed that I attempt to have a better understanding of the spirit and soul of the, uh, of the human that's in front of me. And, um, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But, uh, I, I at least give it a, an attempt in summation and aggregate of what I believe is, um, a unique gift of our, of our guest. So I'm a, I'm gonna attempt to do that with you. When you were talking about your time at the Coca-Cola company, this was in the get comfy section and I mentioned the multicultural, uh, marketing and what it was back then when you and I did our stint, you compared it to today. You talked about the difference between offense and defense. So rather than playing defense around how do we defend what's going on, uh, in the multicultural area, you said maybe we can play offense and through offense, it's around data, and the data that you were able to bring forward during your time leading that group was data that pointed towards growth. You mentioned the 30% roughly of the base. Um, you didn't, you did not mention, although I know you, you, you know it as that in terms of the growth. So there's the base and then there's the growth. It was greater than 30%. So that was a growth story that you mentioned. Then when we got to the five questions and Larry asked you who is, um, um, influenced you the most? You talked about several folks you spent the most time on, uh, Carol H. Williams. You gave Jim his love, you gave Steve his love. You gave Sergio his love, but you spent the most time talking about Carol H. Williams, and as you described her, you said you grew from being in conversation with you. She helped you better understand how to grow, uh, a brand and, um, and, and marketing. She said you, it, it was, she was in some way building you for growth. Then when, uh, Larry asked you, uh, in the same five question segment about, uh, tech, you said tech provides part of the picture to growth, but it doesn't describe the why. And then I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm arriving at a point here, Rodney, just, just bear with me. I'm arriving at a point, which my mom used to say. You talked about innovation at Miller and how you all arrived at a product, a brand that's still around today. I think it, it was Ice House. Was it Ice House, Rodney? Rodney Northern: Ice House, yes. DC: You said you listened. You listened not only to what people say, but what they mean. Not only with your ears, but with your, your eyes. And that listening has allowed you to grow brands and businesses. And then finally, this, you're a teacher and your role as teacher, Rodney, you help students grow. You help students grow. And on this podcast, even by mentioning this perspective of Martin and Malcolm, Martin - citizenship, Malcolm - Dignity, you've helped me grow not just through that, but others. And I am, I'm on a hazardous guest that other Brand nerds are also growing. So I believe the theme of your career and in maybe, uh, your life is that, uh, Rodney Northern, you are a zealot of growth, a zealot of growth no matter where you have been planted, you have grown. You have grown, and the business has grown. It does not matter the category doesn't matter where you were, uh, but you are a zealot of growth. But the one time that you chose not to grow LT: Yep. DC: Which was Coca-Cola University, you noted that as your biggest F-Up because you lacked patience and you lacked maturity. That's the one thing that you pointed to. So you, you went off brand, Rodney, for you. You went off brand as a 33 year old. So I close with this as a question to the Brand Nerds. Is your personal maturity congruent with your business maturity? Mm. That's deep. That's it. Rodney Northern: That's deep. That's it. That's, that's deep. Yeah. Thank you. DC: Thank you Rodney. Thank you Larry. LT: And, and think about Rodney's, uh, Rodney's personal brand. I ended my last one about marketing his growth, right? Like if DC: You Sure did. LT: It's like you and I both came to the same thing like Larry, right? If there's anything brand nerds you need to learn from Rodney Northern. And there's a lot. But one thing, marketing is growth and it's about growth for yourself and the business that you work on. DC: Well stated LT well stated brother. LT: That's it, man. Rodney, right? Um, we are at the show close. If you wanna possit it. A quick learning cuz we gotta be in a minute, that would be great. If not, we could just go to the show close. Rodney Northern: You know, I, I got a, I got a couple things that I would definitely leave everybody with and, and DC: Please, brother, please. Rodney Northern: I'm gonna, I'm gonna go on backwards. So on that growth thing, it's about stay curious and keep learning. DC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: Uh, number two, and I see this all the time. Be yourself. It's too good Ren It's too hard to be somebody else inside of an organization. Yes. And it, and it's not gonna get you anywhere. You gotta come and be yourself. Um, last one I would say is, is figure out what you love to do and do it. Mm-hmm. Um, because you know, if, if, if you're doing stuff that you don't love to do and you're just doing it for the money, then there's not enough money in the world and there's not enough time in life. To do that, you're just wasting it. So find something you love to do and, and as the old folks used to say, the money will come, but, but figure out what you, mm-hmm. DC: Mm-hmm. Rodney Northern: Last, last point. There are many different roads to roam. It's important to find your road. That's all. LT: Mm. That's a mic drop right there. Rodney Northern: Okay. LT: That's it, Jade, that's it. I'm going to the show close. Thanks for listening to Brands, Beats, and Bytes recorded virtually on Zoom and a production of KZSU Stanford 90.1 FM Radio and worldwide at kzsu.org. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman, Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom Dioro. DC: The Podfather. LT: That's right. 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