Latest / Therapy Thursday with Ellen K / Should You Tell a Coworker's Wife About His Affair?

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Should You Tell a Coworker's Wife About His Affair? · Therapy Thursday with Ellen K

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: He's married and he has four kids. They're all older.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: They're like in middle school and high school. And, you know,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: there's so much to love about this job and the
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: chief surgeon. But the problem is he's having affairs, like
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: lots of them.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: It's so great when you love what you do. don't
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: you think like we love being here and doing this
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: podcast and with you sarah.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: Dash i love being here and.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: We know you love what you do too you help
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: people i.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Love it i love it so much i'm feel so
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: blessed that that's how i get to spend my.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Day licensed therapist sarah dash and you have seen and
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: heard it all i feel like there's probably not a
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: situation that we could think of or even ask ai
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: to think of that you probably have not heard in
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: your practice.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Well i think probably at least a version of it
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: because most of our lives they have such similarities I
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: mean we all deal with different things we deal with
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: job family in-laws it's just these are kind of universal experiences.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: So yeah you know I want to go back to
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: that thing Ellen you started and you said we love
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: what we do and we're grateful and um I had
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: a an interaction with our company CEO Bob Pittman a
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: couple weeks ago, and I thanked him for supporting this podcast.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: And he pulled me aside and he just said, I
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: have a question. Are you having fun? And I thought, man! Like,
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: what a prime question for a CEO to ask, right?
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: It wasn't about the bottom line or the dollar. He
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: just said, are you guys having fun?
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: Heck yeah.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: That's what life should be about.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: I think it should be. I think we're not here forever,
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: and I think life is meant to be joyful and
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: be enjoyed.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: If there's something that I'm worried about or my husband
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: will stop me and he'll say, we only have so
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: many breaths that we are going to take on this planet.
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Let's make sure they're good ones. Let's fill them with
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: happiness and joy.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I love it too. He's like, we only have so
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: many breaths. Like if I'm worried about something my sister
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: said or whatever it is. He's like, Ellen, stop.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: You know, appreciate the time and all the good things.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: You know, a lot of times, too, and I'm learning
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: this a lot more lately, I think we tend to
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: focus on the absence of something. You know, the loss
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: of something rather than the presence of something.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, right.
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: Like if something's different or changed, we go, we freak
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: out at this absence instead of appreciating the presence. Yeah,
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: that's true. Yeah. Yes.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: It's really easy to do. I had a girl in
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: my Pilates class and her father was having some health issues.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: So we were talking about that. And she said that
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: her dad was the most positive person and that he
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: told her one time that every single day when he
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: wakes up, he says to himself, this is going to
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: be a great day. And he has great days because
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: of it.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I love that. My mother was battling lung cancer and
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: she was, she had an eight year battle, experimental drugs.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: She was doing great. And when she was feeling really good,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: she would walk down the stairs from her bedroom down
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: to the kitchen and there's a landing and there on
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: the landing, 37 grandchildren, all of our pictures framed plus
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: family and you know, All of her kids. And she
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: would say, every morning I stop on the landing and
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I say hello to all of you and how much
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I love you and how happy I am to be
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: here for another day.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: That's so sweet.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: But how do we carry that through our lives every
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: day where things happen? We get a flat tire or
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: someone says something at work or you know what I mean?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: It's really hard to keep that positive mindset.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: All the time.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: All the time.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it takes practice. People have a gratitude practice.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: whether it's journaling, just jotting down three things every day
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: that they're grateful for. A lot of our problems, like
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: you mentioned the car broken down. Everybody hates to have
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: car problems. It happened to me recently. And I was,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: of course, frustrated. I had to reschedule patients. So it's
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: just all the stuff that happens when your car breaks down.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: And it occurred to me how lucky I was to
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: have that problem.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, yes.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Thank God this is my problem.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that I can call a tow truck, that they'll
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: help me out. And it's just... is a perspective.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: That's a great perspective to have. Like you broke a fingernail.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Thank God. That's my problem right now.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I love that. Well, let's get to Lauren. So Lauren, hi,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: you're on with us. Thanks for coming on the podcast.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: Hey. Hi.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Say hi to Sarah Dash.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Hi, Sarah.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Hey, Lauren. How are you doing?
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I'm doing great. How are you?
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Doing really well. How can we help you?
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I just wanted to talk about, you know, I'm
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: a nurse at a large hospital. It's, you know, a
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: job that I've really fallen in love with. I just,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: every day I find myself loving it more and more.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: We have one of the best chief surgeons and he's
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: highly respected and in the medical community and he's extremely
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: charismatic and everyone in the administration even loves them, which
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: is rare. Um, he's married and he has four kids.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: They're all older. They're like in middle school and high school. And,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: you know, there's so much to love about this job
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: and the chief of surgeon, the chief surgeon, but the
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: problem is he he's, he's having affairs. Like lots of
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: them at work. And most of us kind of know
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: about it, but I saw it recently.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: What do you mean when you say you saw it?
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Well, he was scrubbing out from a surgery and I
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: walked by and saw him making out with one of
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the nurses.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, no way. I've heard of scrubbing in. But when
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: you scrub out, that's like the process after the surgery?
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: You're scrubbing out. Okay.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You scrub out after surgery to make sure
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: you get clean from, you know, everything. And, you know,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I saw this and I don't know this nurse very
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: well because she's so new. But I do know that
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: she's just one of many. Okay. And it's the first
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: time I've ever seen it. And I just feel so bad. Like, I.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: We see his wife all the time and I just don't,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. We all love his
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: family and we like him too, but you know, it,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: it just really shocked me to see him groping this
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: new nurse.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: So they were, they were, they were like hungry for
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: each other. Yeah.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just like a little bit of making out.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: It was like going in for it.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Uh, Well, can I just say this real quickly?
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, please.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: I know a few surgeons just because we do a
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff with different hospitals in the community. And
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: every single one that I know that is charismatic and
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: well-respected has a self-admitted ego.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: And we've talked to many of them. They say, look,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I have to have a large ego because of what
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And people's lives are in my hands, so I need
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: to bring the confidence.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if that could be part of
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: the problem here. Ryan's shaking his head.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: No, Ellen, you're excusing, like, I don't want to say
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: excusing it, but like.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not excusing it.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: I understand that, but you're almost making concessions for it
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: because a lot of people have big egos and don't
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: do this.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm profiling possibly, but.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: I do agree with what you're saying about surgeons having egos.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: I want my surgeon to have an ego.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Same as my pilot. I need that guy cocky
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: as hell.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Supremely confident.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Also, if you're a surgeon, how do you blow off
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: steam if you're always working?
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: There are lots of ways. You could go work out.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: You could work out. You could skydive. You can.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: We knew a surgeon at a children's hospital here, and
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: he would ride literally with the firefighters, ride a bicycle
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: up a steep path behind the hospital and back down
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: every morning before surgery just to get the nerves out
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: and to get the adrenaline going.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Lauren, it sounds like you do like him a lot,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: the surgeon. You're fond of him. Everybody does.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: It sounds like everybody likes him.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: A popular man. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Are you struggling with
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: the fact that you genuinely like him, yet at the
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: same time are appalled by his behavior? Is that what
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: the problem is? Or are you feeling, I know his wife,
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: I like his wife, I should do something, I need
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: to intervene? Where are you with this?
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, it is mostly about his family and his wife.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I feel guilty because now that I've seen it, like
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: it's not just a rumor, it's real. And I feel
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: obligated to do something like tell her or somehow let
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: her know that this is happening because it's not fair
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: to her and her family.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: Okay, wait, I just, I understand why you would have
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: that instinct. You like her, you want to help her.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: You think these are things you should know. You perceive
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: her as being humiliated, maybe. However, you do not know
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: what is going on in their marriage. You don't know
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: what arrangement, understanding.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: We don't know.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, she could be going down to Cabo once
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: a month with her personal trainer. I mean, we don't
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: know what's going on. And that's a huge intervention to
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: make when you don't know the lay of the land. Okay.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Is this common? Do marriages have agreements where they can
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: be free to do what they want, but yet they
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: stay together?
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, some people do.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, to, I don't know, for financial reasons, for
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: to preserve maybe the look of the family.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, the respect issue.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that they're under pressure to do so. But the
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: point is, is we don't know.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, some people have explicit rules. Some people just
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: have a don't ask, don't tell thing.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of varieties to this.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: Lauren, I'm a little curious why you seem to have
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: a complex of needing to save the marriage. Like, why
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: are you so invested in getting involved in this, like,
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: private stuff? Your jurisdiction, as far as I can tell,
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: is the workplace. Yeah.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just, I would want to know. If I
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: was in her position, I would want someone to tell me.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: Got it.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I also feel that.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: And I understand that, by the way.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I get that.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Yes. And I feel, Lauren, that you also, you love
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: what you do so much. You don't want anything to change.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: And with him going through something personally, things would change. Yeah,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: it would. For all of you.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Is there any way you could just be quiet? I could,
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: you just buy me out like instantly. I'd clam up
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: for anything. You know, do you have to run your mouth?
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just, I feel obligated to tell.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Her because I would want to know. It's different, like
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: she said, it's different when you hear the rumors and
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: then when you see it.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: Listen, Ellen, you and I had a, I know, but
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: we had a great conversation, you and I were, we
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: had a great conversation just a couple weeks ago about
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: what we put in our carry-on. When we go through
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: the day, we wake up, this is our carry-on. How
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: much are we stuffing in it?
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: Can it fit in the overhead bin? You're taking too
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: much in your carry-on. Who cares if you saw it?
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: Unsee it.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: But she saw it. She saw a man that she was,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: I think, Sarah, correct me if I'm wrong. Ryan, I
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: know you'll chime in. Did she just lose so much
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: massive respect, even though it was rumored around the workplace?
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Seeing it, did that just change your entire like, whoa,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: my world is rocked because I saw him groping a
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: new nurse?
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Do you want me to throw out an industry term
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: for you?
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, I do.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: It creates cognitive dissonance.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: And we have a compulsion to resolve that. And that
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: means you see him, you like him, charismatic. You've heard
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: these rumors, but because they're rumors, you kind of put
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: them on the shelf. It's undeniable now. So you have
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: this internal conflict. And so in part, the wanting to
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: tell the wife is about resolving your discomfort with that
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: cognitive dissonance. It's also really, really hard to tolerate ambiguity.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: Meaning we want to make like a binary moral judgment.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: This person is good. This person is bad.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Yikes.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: Lauren, can I ask you another question, just like a
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: slightly different direction question?
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Okay. You said groping. That's a pretty strong word. I mean,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: did you feel like what you saw, that there was
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: a resistance? Is that a piece of it? I mean,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: are we talking, is that another concern?
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: She went after him and he resisted her?
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Quite the opposite.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: The other way around.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Quite the opposite.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Did it seem unwanted?
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: No, they didn't.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Both really were into each other.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Okay, then that's good, because that's a different problem. Yeah.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: Because then the other, that's sexual misconduct. I don't know
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: what your role is. I don't know if maybe you're
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: a charge nurse, that you have some sort of responsibility
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: over this. So now we're just talking about.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Dual groping makes everything... Dual groping... It's like the song
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: The Dip. When I dip, when I grope, you grope,
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: we grope. You know what I mean? We're both groping.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, whoa.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh. Wow. Wow.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, if you didn't know his wife, if you've never
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: met his wife, would you feel the compulsion to reach out?
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think as much so.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: But I just, I know his kids and I know
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: his wife and it's hard for me to ignore.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: And I'm really sorry that you saw that because I
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: can hear that this is really weighing heavily on you
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: and you're taking it seriously and that's important.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: I just don't know why more people can't mind their
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: own business.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: But when it's in your face, I mean, she didn't
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: go looking for it.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: I understand, but you have it and it could affect
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: your job.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: This could affect your job too. You don't know that.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Who are they going to protect here? The surgeon that's
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: saving lives every day, that's making them fistfuls of money
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: or a nurse who says, I heard he's been cheating
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: and I saw him kissing on someone else. I'm sorry.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: You're first to go.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, knowledge is not the same thing as responsibility.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: It can be, but I don't hear it as a
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: responsibility in this case.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: Keep your eyes on your own paper. Remember when we
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: were kids and taking tests, the teacher would always say,
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: keep your eyes on your own paper. That's how I
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: feel here. Even if you glance over and you saw
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: the right answer on Derek's test, you're not going to
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: raise your hand and go, I looked and I saw it.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: Don't rat.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Can you stay there, be happy, and continue with your
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: head down knowing what you know and knowing what you saw?
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Or is this a game changer for you and do
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: you have to possibly give up the job you love?
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'm going to try to keep
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: my head down because I really don't want to lose
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: this job.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Is it possible, whether it's true or not, to entertain
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: the idea that you don't know what's going on in
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: their marriage?
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: That's it, Sarah.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, good.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: That's good.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Because it is true. I'm not just making that up.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: You don't know what's going on.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: And Sarah, that gives her like the plausible deniability out.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: Right. It gives you that exit ramp on this freeway
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: to mind your own business. Yeah, it does.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: It absolves you of a moral duty that I feel
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: like you're feeling. I feel like you're feeling a moral duty.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that helps.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry. You're sad. I can, I can feel it.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I can hear it.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: Especially because a bad thing has taken like a fun
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: job that you love and made it kind of stressful.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: That's no good.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I really just don't want it to affect that.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I don't want to have to go find a new
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: job over this.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Don't I, you know, I have a sister who's a
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: nurse and she shares the dramas.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And she, um, she's been doing it for, for a
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: long time. She's a, like a boss manager now. And she's,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: she just, you know what? It's kind of like, uh,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I guess it would be in many ways, like being
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: a surgeon, you're, you're, you're working on this patient, you're
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: doing all these things and then you've got to like,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: let it go. And I just did my job. I,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I hopefully did a great job and I'm, I'm going
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: to remember this for as long as it takes to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: get to my car.
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Hang in there, Lauren.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: I don't think you have a responsibility here. I don't
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: think you have a responsibility to sort this out. I mean,
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Ryan touched on that at the beginning of this conversation.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Cause yeah, I mean, it feels kind
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: of like I should do something, but I don't, like
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you said, I mean, they're going to take the surgeon
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: over me anyways. So, you know, I'm just going to
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: have to kind of, find a way to deal with
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: that and rationalize it. Cause yeah, I don't want to
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: lose my job or even change the dynamic. And like
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: that would even just reporting it, even if he stayed
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: would change the dynamic.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: This might be terrible advice.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: You know, I'm in what I, in terms of what
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: I said, maybe, maybe this is maybe the right thing
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: to do is tell him. I don't, I don't. What
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: do you think?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I think Sarah, I would never, I would never, I
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: would not say a word.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: It's not– this is not the same thing as your sister,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: your best friend, somebody– I mean maybe you are closer
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: to his wife than I'm imagining that you are. But it's–
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: certain situations I would absolutely think that informing somebody would
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: be the right thing to do. I don't believe it's
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: never the right thing to do.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: That's it, Sarah.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: This is not that. That's it. The thing is, in
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: these other situations, we usually at least have some inkling
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: of what the understanding is in that marriage.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: And here we just don't.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: And this, you don't.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: It's different, too. Like, there are certain things that are
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: so black and white, right? Like, if she saw him
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: stealing money, right? You go, okay, well, I know that's wrong.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: There's no, like, there's no way to.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: There's no groping rules.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: He was drunk.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: Like, yeah, he was smoking crack before he came in.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, I've got to say something.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: You've got to cut somebody open.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. But this is just groping, scrubbing out.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: And there could be free reign to grope here. You know?
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: Maybe his wife's groping someone else. You don't know.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: A free growthing's out.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Scrubbing out and making out. That's the title of this podcast.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Hang in there, Lauren. Let us know how it's going
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Will do.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, we need a smile, Lauren. We can't let you
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: hang up like that.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Lauren? Okay. Okay, Lauren.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Okay.